Would Jenny allow Danny to tinker with her? I know robotics isn’t exactly the same as aerospace engineering (and I do be headcanoning that my boy chose this as his major since he wants to be an astronaut), but with all the experience he had from handling his parents inventions I believe he can be trusted with fixing something as complex as a robot. I like to think that Danny was really impressed with how Jenny was made and secretly wanted to take a look at how she works, but was too shy to ask because he knows how it’s like to be treated like an object and not a person (with the whole “ghosts are non-sentient globs of ectoplasm with post-human consciousness” spiel he heard so many times) and didn’t want to make Jenny uncomfortable. I believe it took Jenny some time and getting to know Danny and his engineering skills before she let him fix her when she got something badly broken. It was like a show of ultimate trust from Jenny’s side and Danny was flattered, humbled and very respectful. And super careful of course, constantly asking how Jenny’s doing or feeling while he tinkered, mindful of her. I bet she was touched.
Not gonna lie, this is one of the more fascinating asks I got - if only because its incredibly interesting to read about your take/interpretation of Danny & Jenny's relationship! I hope you don't mind me saying, but it feels like you adore both characters and it's very cute!
Well, now, in HoM AU, both Danny and Jenny are close friends and indeed Danny is one of the few people who Jenny trusts with - well, herself - her mechanical self. Like you, I headcanon Danny as quite mechanicaly gifted - in HoM AU he actually graduated college/uni with engineering degree, so he got education to polish his raw skills! He is one of the first people who would help Jenny in and out of the field, if there is a minor malfunction or an injury of some sort!
But even for that to happen it took a couple of years and a few adventures together.
So to answer the original question, I would have to say that in HoM AU specifically, neither Danny would ask to 'tinker' with her, nor Jenny would probably be totally comfortable with that question if asked. 'Tinkering' would imply a degree of casual poking around, and in this case, both Danny and Jenny have certain life experiences that gave them... boundaries when it comes to their own and others' autonomy. Jenny especially.
(a bit of random background info dump here to explain the reasoning, but feel free to ignore it, since i basically answered the ask xD i just got bitten by a writing bunny, so its gotten a bit long - be warned!)
When Jenny was younger and only just acclimatizing herself with human world and amongst teenagers, she was rather blaze at times with how much access to her body she gave to her human friends and acquaintances.
After all, her mother was rather frank about it - often poking around in Jenny's mechanics and code. But it was her mother, who created her (sort of 'why are you covering yourself, i made you i already know what you have' mother attitude, which is a bit over-controlling and invasive to other's autonomy, but well, Jenny is a robot after all) and it a completely different deal from others.
So, despite her mother's warnings there are instances when Jenny was not very careful. Like when she allowed Brad, Tuck and Sheldon to literally remove and rip out her stuff in pursuit of fashion goals. Or when she dropped her guard around Todd Sweeney and got reprogrammed for her good deed.
And during the events of the last episode, she was once again controlled, by Dr Locus. While not exactly her fault, it still left a lasting impression that any mechanically gifted person could be dangerous to her.
Now, this is where we venture into my personal headcanons for MLAATR that are tied into HoM-verse:
Another aspect of Jenny's developed caution to giving access to her body - is the fact that she is not considered as a real person in the eye of the government/world. She is a thing, a weapon created by Dr. Walkman. She does not have the same rights as a human, and on paper she does not even have rights to her own body. It's all patented Nora Wakeman technology, (secretly) founded by the government.
And she has been fighting it ever since she was a teenager and refused to be called an IT - XJ-9 - and became a HER, a teenage girl Jenny, who also just happens to be a robot.
At first it started as a simple teenage rebellion and she went to school and started to hang out with other kids, but what about later after she graduates? Will she be even allowed to? Sure, maybe her school will give her a diploma, but how legal will it be to give something like that to someone who is legally not a real person? After all, its not like when other kids will turn 18 and can be their own people, not under the legal control of their parents. Jenny is her mother's property, intellectual and physical. For her to be considered a real person in the eye of government, it would require a law being passed about recognizing sentience of Artificial Intelligence.
And sure, she could probably be made an exception, being a hero robot and all, but the problem is, she is not the only human-made robot in existence! What about her sisters, who are prototypes and are not as developed as her? Her brother, who seemed to develop sentiency to the point of turning on humans?? Melody and Killgore?? And its not only in her world (cartoon), but in others (since its a crossover). So the question about AI/Robot sentience, no matter if they are good or bad or how developed they are, would not concern only her, it would be a global debate.
And we all know how the governments of the world would feel about passing laws about sentience of artificial beings that were created to serve the human race. It would be a struggle one way or another.
So, as she grows up and sees the world refusing to aknowledge her as a person, she doesnt have legal rights to finish school and go to college, to get a job, to get married, heck she cant even have a legal documentation that doesnt says 'Dr. Wakeman's creation'. The government says: your body belongs to us, because we paid for Dr. Wakeman to make you - you belong to us, we control you.
That, on top of several unpleasant experiences with other people disregarding her autonomy, will equal to Jenny trying to get some sense of that control back. So she starts to be more cautious about how much access others have to her physical self; she starts to build and reinforce boundaries with other people, starting with her family and friends.
It was one of the darkest days in Sheldon's life, when Jenny started to firmly say 'no' to whenever he asked her about her inner workings and casual access for poking around. xD Tuck was not a happy camper either, that his favorite robot friend became very stingy with all the cool stuff. But Brad got it. And after gentle (and sometimes not) reminders, others became more understanding.
It was a little harder with her mother. Dr. Wakeman truly loved her daughter, but she was a scientist first and mother second. She was so used to casual access to Jenny, in order to keep maitanance that it was hard for her to break the habits. Its still a constant struggle, but she has gotten so much better.
Now, when it came to her new friends amongst HoMies, she already has built a set of boundaries that allowed her to feel more secure as a person, despite how the world sees her, but she is much more reserved to opening herself up to others, at least compared to how she first approached people when she was younger.
It took a few missions and getting to know them better, for her to start trusting with them with her mechanical self. But now a few years later, she feels comfortable enough with most of them to give her a helping hand when needed!
Of course not everyone are capable of helping her though: Danny, Kim and Zak are three of more mechanically oriented people who can help. Though Danny is the one with actual education in that field, while Kim and Zak learned more by necessity, from Kim's various jobs and Zak to operate the Saturday's equipments.
When Rex joined them, he actually became the second best person for her to come to if she needed help. Not only because he has unprecedent skills in mechanics, but also because of his nanites. (but thats info dump for another time, lol)
Jun has some basic knowledge in mechanics, but nowhere near enough for her to feel comfortable poking in Jenny's insides. Jake is perhaps the least capable of helping, when it comes to engineering, followed by newbie Randy (tho we really aint counting him tbh xD).
Ben is a complicated situation - he has some training and knowledge in engineering and robotics because of his Plumber training, but Jenny has heard horror tales from Gwen about how he treats his stuff (the whole hacking/playing with Omnitrix settings), so she flat out refuses for Ben to touch her. However in emergency/battle situation she would allow Ben to use one of his aliens to do so (like, Grey Matter or Upgrade).
So, we talked about Jenny's experiences and why they would contribute to her feeling uncomfortable if someone asked to 'tinker' with her.
Now, let's talk about why Danny would not ask to 'tinker' with her in the first place.
Like you said, Danny is all to familiar with the struggle of being part of something tat is hardly recognized as a sentient species - he had to listen to his parents dismiss ghost sentience most of his younger life. Of course, they have gotten much better since the... 'finale' of DP, but this sort of racism? xenophobia? (im not rally sure which term to use tbh) prejudice against ghosts would have left a lasting impression on Danny.
So I dont remember if I ever implied it, but in HoM AU - events of DP finale happened very differently and the resulting consequences of it diverged a lot from Mr ButtHurtman's 'canon'.
(Also, I had ideas about it, before a Glitch In Time came out, so events from there were not taken into consideration. )
I don't want to reveal much, because it is kinda one of my planned flashback for HoM, but the events that happened reinforced Danny's ... well lets say regard of people's autonomy? It's kind of hard to put into words.
Ok, let's explain it like this: Danny would not ask Jenny if he could look at how she worked and if he could tinker with her, because it would be like if his Mom and Dad casually asked if they could perform a vivisection on him to see how different he is from a full human.
And while sure, the comparison might sound a bit extreme, since there is a difference when it comes to robots and humans about 'poking around' in their innards. But to Danny - it would be too close of a comparison - because of the whole 'recognition of sentience' thing.
After all, wasn't it just some years ago, his parents cried that ghost are nothing more than lump of malicious energy that have no feelings? They changed their mind after Danny's reveal, which allowed them to actually listen and look into evidence proving otherwise and learn. And here is Jenny, struggling to be recognized as a person, since she is considered nothing more than a lump of metal with no feelings - just a weapon to be pointed in a certain direction.
And Danny would feel like asking Jenny if he could casually poke inside her, is a bit... hypocritical? And not to mention insenstitive. After all, he knows how she feels - she is basically still living his worst imagined life in some ways.
So, I don't think he will ever ask to study how she works by casually poking inside her.
HOWEVER -
At some point, after they became friends, Danny would feel like he should know at least some basics on how Jenny works, just so he could help her in an emergency.
I imagine it happened after a particularly rough mission, and Danny had to help Jenny back home since she was unable to do so herself, so Dr. Wakeman could fix her. After some time thinking, he would sit in front of both Nora and Jenny and ask them for permission if he could learn how Jenny works - from Nora.
After all, Danny does not need to poke inside Jenny to learn how she functions, when there is her mother right there - the creator, the maintanance and doctor all in one package, with access to blueprints and all intricate knowledge, who can evaluate what Danny needs to know in accordance to his passable engineering skills. She could teach him the basics - but of course not without Jenny's permission.
So he asks her, if he could learn, because he is tired of looking how she gets hurt along with them, but unlike most of them she can not be easily fixed with bandages and some time. And Danny, since he is one of the few of them who has the skills, would like to be actually able to help her with those skills. But it is her body - it is her choice, to trust him or not.
And Jenny would be speechless. It would be the first time someone asked her like that. Not even Kim, who is one of her closest friends, asked before (but mostly because Kim was perfectly aware that she is nowhere skilled enough to even think about it).
And you would be right. It would be a show of ultimate trust from Jenny, to agree for Danny to learn. And maybe at some point, simply learning, turned into more on hands learning in some small ways. And Jenny's trust was never betrayed, and Danny always stayed humbled and aware of that.
so, i hope the answer was satisfying, or at least entertaining for you! thank you again, your ask was delightful to read and allowed me to explore some of my own backstory parts for HoM a little bit more!
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A Chenford Thesis on 5x08
So, during my latest season 5 rewatch (thank you, hiatus nr 28593 this season), I kept getting stuck at 5x08. I could watch the Chenford scenes a hundred times a day. I’ve had a lot of time to think about why I absolutely love this episode and the way Chenford finally happened.
Apologies if I keep repeating myself sometimes. This got way out of hand for some reason and I might’ve lost track a bit, so…
Anyway, let’s get started with my essay, or whatever this is, on how we got to the end of 5x08 and why Chenford’s development makes me weak in the knees.
Would a big love confession scene because one of them is in danger have been nice to see in the moment? Sure. Would it have taken away from the impact of it all? Yes, yes, I think it would’ve. Because these two characters are not that. They’re private people, Tim especially, and yes, Lucy is more outgoing and once told Nolan to go for a big-ass proposal with Bailey, but when it really matters, that’s also not her. A big confession in the heat of the moment would’ve been OOC for them. The quieter, just the two of them outside way worked way better than anything else could have.
But I’m getting ahead of myself already. Let’s start at the beginning.
All of 5x08 is the perfect lead-up to the end scene of that episode.
Both Tim and Lucy are clearly uncomfortable at the idea of having to spend an entire shift together in the same car. They haven’t been the same with each other since they found a certain someone on Lucy’s couch and Tim encouraged her to go to UC school.
They’ve become so much more than just colleagues to one another, but neither one of them is ready to have to face the other for the next approximately 10-12 hours. At this point, we’ve seen Lucy realize that Tim means more to her than just a friend, and we’ve definitely seen that Tim fell head-over-heals in 4x22/5x01 and just a little bit more each episode since.
So, there is nothing easy about having to be this close to each other again while thinking the other doesn’t return those romantic feelings. We see that weirdness in the shop before Lucy decides to break the silence. Without even trying, the manage to slip into a conversation that feels like them. They’re bickering like an old married couple.
They disagree, but don’t insult each other for their different opinions – they banter back and forth, the way they have since sometime during Lucy’s rookie year.
This wonderful moment, where we briefly saw them being them again, gets interrupted by Lucy’s idiotic WIP. Be warned, I will not be nice to this guy. I might even get through all of this without having to type out his name. Yes, I’m that petty. No, I’m not sorry.
Lucy looks super uncomfortable right from the start. She doesn’t want to talk to this guy right now, especially not with Tim right next to her. But Assford doesn’t even register her unease. She manages to avoid having to talk very long, and couldn’t have hung up the phone any more quickly after he says he loves her.
Now, we know Tim isn’t one for personal talk in the shop, even though Lucy’s already broken through that barrier here. But we saw the way he was avoiding even looking Lucy in the eye before she scurried off to get the war bags back at the station. He doesn’t want to have to spend so much time being so close to her.
He doesn’t want to get involved in her personal life again. (Okay, he does, but you know what I mean.) But he clocks in on her uneasiness. And yeah, he didn’t think Lucy and the idiot he set her up with were serious enough to be talking about moving in together. So, he starts a conversation about something personal. Because he needs to know.
“Are you two moving in together?” He looks and sounds a little broken. Because if they’re that serious, he really never has a chance. I know, he doesn’t think he has one now, but that would shut that door even more. Lucy doesn’t say yes, but she also doesn’t say no. But she does say that mr. clingy just dropped it on her earlier that day. We all see how confused and nervous she is.
He asks if they’re happy – notice his use of ‘right?!’ at the end of that question; it’s become a pattern with them – and that moving in would be the obvious thing to do next. See, he can’t have her but still wants her to be happy. Even though he clearly doesn’t like the guy she’s with. Tim, you big selfless idiot.
And Lucy tries to deflect, tries to convince him, and herself, that she’s happy with the guy. But we can all tell that she isn’t. And that Tim isn’t convinced either.
The conversation is put on hold because they get called to a dispute. This might seem very random, but that couple served two purposes. One, giving an example of a couple that might be doing things better than Lucy with her WIP but still not the right way. And two, showing that sometimes, cops get called to weird scenes that seem totally random. But that’s patrol.
Then they’re all busy trying to help the woman who’s had a bomb strapped to her neck. We see what they have to deal with on patrol, the inhuman things people do. We see them trying to handle seeing a woman killed by a bomb.
They’re still talking about it when they’re back in the shop after it all went down. Again, they’re pulled out of the moment by her pathetic-excuse-for-a-boyfriend. This time, he seems to call to make sure she’s okay after hearing what happened on the news. But as soon as she says she’s ok, he changes course. Immediately putting pressure on her by talking about a house they should move on if she likes it.
She hasn’t even seen the house. Let alone actually agreed to even look at houses. In the morning, she said “I’ll think about it. We’ll talk tonight.” That was not a yes. It was a ‘maybe; can we please talk about this later’. But he doesn’t get it. He doesn’t realize how much he’s bothering and smothering her right now.
Tim only has to take one look at Lucy to see that she’s uncomfortable. He was already looking at her when she turned to glance at him, likely looking for his help to get her out of this conversation. Lucy, honey. Wanting to get out of a conversation with your WIP should ring several alarm bells. You shouldn’t need ‘saving’.
But Tim does what he always does – making sure Lucy’s okay. So he puts on his best TO voice and tells her to stop taking personal calls while on duty. Dumbass takes the hint, but not before throwing some shade at Tim.
Lucy takes a moment to regroup after hanging up the phone before she turns to Tim. “Thanks”. Tim nods his acknowledgement, and they both turn their focus back to work. But I’m still stuck at how Lucy looked for comfort and help from Tim and he gave it willingly. Because he wants her to be happy. And those phone calls put her on edge.
So he did what he could do to help make her feel a bit better. I love this guy and his big-ass heart.
The next time we see them in the shop, Lucy is looking at her phone again. Tim takes one look at her after glancing at her phone (Timmy, you bein’ kinda nosy) and starts talking again. Again, he is the one to start a conversation about personal stuff.
He doesn’t shy away from the truth and just says it as it is: tell your idiotic WIP that you don’t wanna move in if you don’t want to move in. And I’m not sure if Lucy is just very out of tune with her feelings or what, but come on, she knows exactly what the problem is and why she doesn’t want to move in with mr. ignorance.
Every time I rewatch this episode and get to this specific scene, I cannot stop myself from saying “You know exactly what the problem is. It’s sitting right there next to you” after Lucy says she doesn’t get what the problem is. Seriously, even if I’m not actively listening, that part always gets my attention and I mutter those words.
Lucy keeps talking, saying that she and the WIP are great together and that they never fight. Well, Tim coming in again with the truth: maybe that’s the problem. Or one of them, anyway. If you don’t fight, there’s barely any passion. Lack of friction and arguments doesn’t leave much room to improve and work on a relationship if you want to make it last.
Lucy isn’t one to shy away from confrontation. We’ve seen her stand her ground with Tim basically since day one. Why is she not herself with Ch… oh, almost typed his name. Woops. Anyhow, we all know Lucy usually confronts what’s bothering her head-on. Why is she hiding?
In semi-typical Chenford (or is it Lucy?)-fashion, she tries to deflect a bit here, jokingly asking if she and her can’t-read-the-room-bf should be more like the couple from the call they dealt with earlier. Tim denies, because that is not what he means.
“Do you guys not fight because you don’t disagree on things or because you don’t think it’s worth the bother?”
Again, right to the point. He hits the nail right on the head. We can see that Lucy realizes the latter to be true. She doesn’t argue with ADA Boring because it’s not worth it. She doesn’t put in the effort like she usually does. Why?
Well, because those arguments would immediately show that they are not compatible, and it would likely end that relationship sooner rather than later. Deep down, Lucy knows that.
Right from their first interaction, you could see that they don’t see eye-to-eye on things. Yes, her and Tim don’t agree on a lot of things, either. But she puts in that effort. Because she cares.
This whole conversation shows that she’s staying with the dumbass not because she really wants to, but more because of guilt, fear, and the fact that she doesn’t want to commit to any guy. Well, there is one she’d love to commit to, but thinks she’ll never have the chance to.
Guilt because she stills blames herself for the Rosalind debacle even though we all know it’s not her fault. Commitment issues because she hasn’t felt about anybody that seriously before, until... well, we’ll get to that and the fear part later.
Tim can see that she realizes that she’s just along for the ride in that relationship, trying to commit to someone who seems great on paper but isn’t right for her. Once more, Tim tells her what he thinks.
“You deserve someone who’s worth the effort.”
Because he wants her to be happy, because he cherishes and adores and loves her.
Because he wants her to be in a relationship where she wants to work through the tough stuff, where she doesn’t shy away from the conflict, where she can be herself.
Because he wants her to realize that she’s not gonna be happy with this guy when she can’t even be herself without having that relationship implode.
Time and time again, they’ve shown us how incompatible Lucy and mr. you-can-leave-anytime-now are. Even their first encounter was indicative that this would never work out (still baffles me that she went out with him again after that double date). He seems more interested in forming her into someone he wants instead of really accepting who she is.
And that just won’t do in a relationship. Ok, again, Tim and Lucy constantly try to make the other see things differently, but they’re not trying to change each other. At least not in a way that would totally go against who they are. They want them to be better versions of themselves.
I mean, come on. Lucy as a lawyer? Tim retiring at 40ish? Who are these people who claim to love them?
Tim and Lucy constantly make each other want to be better.
And look at Lucy. Surely, she can see that montage that the Rookie SM account posted as part of the sneak peak before the episode aired play out before her eyes. All the times they’ve put in an effort. For each other. Even when they were still rookie and TO.
She made an effort back then. Why not with her collar of a WIP? It took some time, but I’ve come to realize that the title for the episode might as well have referred to Assford’s presence in Lucy’s life and how he’s like a weight holding her down.
The conversation seems to be over for the time being as they both turn a bit away from one another, lost in thought, especially Lucy. She absorbs everything he just said. The wheels are starting to turn in her head.
Before either one of them can too wrapped up in thoughts, we see a car speeding past them. They discover that a second person has become victim of having a collar bomb strapped around their neck.
I’m gonna skip over some case related moments but will say that I love how easily they slip from personal talk in the shop to being solely focused on the case and trying to find a way to help the guy. Now, let me jump right to when Creighton just takes matters into his own hands and starts cutting the bomb off with garden tools.
It’s just a little moment in an episode with many awesome Chenford scenes, but I absolutely love how Tim reaches for Lucy to get her to cover behind the door of the shop. And then how he’s shielding her, keeping her behind him as best as possible with one hand on her shoulder and the other on her arm.
Tim, your love for her is showing. And I’m getting emotional again.
This entire sequence, from seeing the collar bomb on Creighton to when Tim radios in to pick up their suspect shows how easily Tim and Lucy slipped back into their partnership. He lets her take charge with the interview. They wordlessly communicate with one another. They just need to share a few looks to know what the other is thinking and move forward with the questioning.
You can’t force this kind of connection, it’s just there. We can all see and feel it. And they probably do as well.
We get to the last Chenford podcar scene of the episode. They’re coordinating with Harper on how to proceed after getting the last victim’s name. After, we hear Lucy’s phone going off, again. Thank god it’s not another face time call with what’s-his-name and just a message.
But even just a text is mildly pissing Lucy off. Because dude keeps sending her stuff even though she’s made it perfectly clear she wanted to talk about it with him later, not while on duty.
Tim immediately picks up on it again and asks if it’s more listings, which, of course it is. Because ADA clueless is being an inconsiderate idiot. Even more so for sending listings for places Lucy would never even consider living, even if she wanted to move in with jackass.
Off of her frustration, Tim works up the courage to ask something he’s probably been wondering about since the start of their day. “Do you love him?”
No, Timothy, she does not. Otherwise she’d be happy to talk to the WIP about it every chance she gets, not be completely frustrated with him. But he asks anyway because he needs to hear the answer.
Lucy tries to deflect again, similar to the way she did when he asked if she was happy. ‘They haven’t been dating long’... which, well, is semi-true. It is the longest relationship for Lucy that we’ve seen on the show (gag).
And it’s been roughly 10ish months at this point (thank you, TR, for the super wacky timeline. I’m deciding to go with November here, hence the 10 months, because we saw a date of Nov ’22 in 5x09; but who really knows…).
After so long, you know whether you love someone or not. And Lucy knows she doesn’t love him but tries to avoid having to admit it right away.
Tim seems to accept her obvious avoidance. But lets her know that dumbass loves her. So she shouldn’t lead him on if she doesn’t feel that way about him.
I don’t know why I always get so emotional watching this. Probably because Tim’s statement could easily be about himself, too.
And now Lucy might finally be realizing the problem. She knows that her WIP loves her (although, I’m still not convinced, because he shouldn’t be trying to change and pressure her into anything if he really did love her).
Lucy knows that she should, theoretically, love him back. Because on paper, he seems great and she even says, “he’s so great in so many different ways”.
I hate this line. Because time and time again, they’ve managed to show him as a not great guy. No matter how much I try, I cannot for the life of me think of him as anything but annoying and so obviously not right for Lucy.
Anyway. Lucy proceeds to talk as she processes what’s bothering her and comes to the conclusion that “he’s just not…“ and immediately looks over at Tim before looking back out the window. Lucy, what?!
Could you be more obvious? You basically just said you can’t love Assford because he’s not Tim. You basically just said you’re in love with Tim… cool. I’m cool. Perfectly fine. Not losing my mind over this at all.
That was the loudest unspoken ‘you’ I’ve ever heard. And that’s the problem of it all, isn’t it? She’s realized at some point that she likes Tim more than she thought possible and seems frustrated with herself for not being able to let him go after thinking he rejected her. Frustrated with the whole situation, really.
But that’s also just it. You can’t just stop wanting someone. Yes, you try to move on when you think it’s never gonna happen, but that doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easy or happen quickly.
Lucy seems to never truly have been in love with anyone before. Otherwise she would’ve committed to someone already, and not just tried to settle for dumbass ADA bitch.
Finally, Lucy has voiced the problem of it all: she can’t love anybody else because somehow, she fell in love with Tim. Again, she can’t love Assford because he’s. not. Tim. Swoon.
I’m sure Tim could feel that her gaze shifted toward him… whether he knew that’s what she almost said or not, I’m not sure. But I am sure he hoped that’s what she could mean.
He looks over at her, trying to figure her out. But she’s already looking away, so he turns his focus back on the road. Both of them are left with their own thoughts and the case. And I can practically feel the tension through my screen.
Tim and Lucy, my loves. Can you two please actually talk to one another? Without leaving any room for doubts, without subtext, without beating around the bush.
Just say what you really wanna say. The other person might surprise you with their answer.
And then we get to the last scene of the episode. Every moment has led to this.
We see Tim sitting outside the station, alone, before we see Lucy walk up to him, getting them in the same shot together. And isn’t that just the perfect metaphor for their relationship? Tim was alone and broken when they met in the Pilot. And then there comes Lucy, sunshine personified, and bit by bit, brings light back into his life, stealing his heart along the way without even trying.
She constantly challenged him, made him see when he was in the wrong and why, yet never judged or blamed him for things out of his control (wife who abandoned him, learning differently, childhood trauma because of an abusive father, taking the blame for everything) and made sure he knew that those things were nothing bad or to be ashamed of or his fault.
Unlike so many other people in his life, Lucy never tried to change him. She simply brought out the person he is underneath all the tough guy exterior. She didn’t ask him to change - he wanted to be better because her opinion of him started to matter at some point.
We might all see the difference Lucy made in Tim’s life more easily than the impact he’s had on her, but the deeper we look, the more obvious it gets.
The Lucy from 1x01 needed to learn that the world was not as nice as we’d all sometimes wish it were.
Tim said it himself in 3x11. She’s a kind and empathetic person who needed to see the world in a different light. He might’ve gone about it a bit controversially at first, but that all stemmed from a place of deep-seated hurt and heartbreak (still no excuse, but more understandable and shows that he’s human).
But he still managed to challenge her. Made her see that she could be and is a great cop. Trained her to believe in herself and her abilities - something her parents never did. And something Lucy desperately needed in her life. Someone who believes in her and trusts her choices. Someone who accepts her the way she is. Someone who has her back.
They both became better versions of themselves because of each other. Because there was finally a person who didn’t judge. No, it wasn’t romantic right from the start. But that pull toward one another has always been there. It’s only gotten stronger as they got to know each other better and then eventually bubbled to the surface at the end of season 4 and beginning of 5.
Kay, back to the actual scene.
I still really wanna know what Lucy was planning on talking to Tim about. Somebody please tell me… because “We need to talk” is usually not accompanied by anything good.
I love how Tim immediately puts his phone down and turns his attention, and his body, toward Lucy. She has his full attention, no matter what this conversation is going to be about.
Now, Lucy is the one who comes to Tim, but he is the one to start the conversation. And because they’ve been talking about her relationship with mr. can’t-read-the-room-and-pick-up-on-Lucy’s-discomfort before, it’s what he thinks they’ll continue to talk about.
First though: just think about how weird this must be for them. All day, Tim’s been trying to help the woman he’s fallen for work through her relationship with someone else. And Lucy’s been working through the problems she has with her WIP with the guy she’s actually in love with.
Yup, weird.
Anyway.
We can tell that Tim is not expecting this conversation to be about anything but Lucy and her relationship with Assford. He doesn’t even entertain the idea that Lucy might’ve come to him to talk about them. He just wants to help her see that whatever she’s doing is not working. He’s being the friend he’s become for her over time. Because he’s not expecting to ever mean as much to her as she means to him.
“Look, this clearly isn’t working out. I don’t know why you won’t just admit it.”
Thank you, Tim, for saying what the entire fandom’s been thinking for a while now.
“Unless, I mean, is it guilt? Is it because of what Rosalind did to him?”
For some reason, likely because she’s frustrated with the situation as is and really didn’t want to talk about her WIP, Lucy deflects. Again. “Oh, like I’m the only one who stayed too long when things aren’t working? You dated a lifeguard. You don’t even like going to the beach!”
Okay, I have to admit that I love Lucy’s roasting. So I need to pause here for a second. I had this all semi-planned out but then my emotions got the better of me. So, enjoy while I air out some of those frustrations.
Both Tim and Lucy stayed with their respective partners for far too long. And for the wrong reasons.
I get that Lucy felt guilty, and is too compassionate to leave someone when they’re hurt. Especially when she thinks it’s her fault.
And neither one of them wanted to be alone. But Tim never should’ve stayed with Lifeguard Bitch after he realized they were on completely different paths regarding the future.
I’m not saying she should change what she wants for Tim, but neither should he settle for something he clearly doesn’t want. He even said in 4x05 that he expected to already have kids. So he still wants it. He shouldn’t be with someone who clearly doesn’t want it.
There’s no future there. But being alone wasn’t an option either because then he wouldn’t have been able to try to ignore his feelings for Lucy for as long as he did.
In typical Tim Bradford fashion, he compromised who he is and what he wants to please the person he’s with.
Take his reaction to Lifeguard’s revelations in 4x21: “Ok… great”. No Tim, not great. You clearly want the wife, the house and the 2.5 kids. Why are you not telling her that? End it right then and there.
Why are you always the one compromising? Relationships are supposed to be a give and take, not just give for you, and take for Blondie.
If she really did love him, she wouldn’t have dumped him the way she did. And not for the reason she did. Seriously, did she not know what his job was when they first went out? I mean, Bitch please.
Sorry for the choice of words. My distaste for her and mr. hums-the-song just grew exponentially while writing this. Anyway, let me get back to the Chenford of it all.
Now it’s Tim’s turn to be frustrated. Because this is not what this is about. All day he’s been trying to figure out why Lucy is still with Assford when she is clearly not happy, despite what she said earlier. He’s been trying to help her figure it all out.
Tim wants Lucy to realize she deserves better, someone worthy of her. And no, he doesn’t think that’s him. In his mind, she is far too nice to ever possibly being able to like him in that way. So, this isn’t for him. It’s not about him.
He says it himself: “This is not about me. No, it’s not about me, it’s about you. Staying in this safe relationship... because you’re scared.” Damn Tim. Straight to the point.
But as soon as he says it, Lucy turns the conversation on its axis and actually makes it about them. Because all this time, it’s been about them, about him. “Of course I’m scared. If we do this and it doesn’t work, I’ll have ruined the most important relationship in my life.”
Again: Lucy?! What did you just say? My lack of words here is an accurate representation of my reaction when we were all watching it for the first time in December.
And, yeah. I’ve seen different opinions about this whole scene. I don’t think it’s entirely out of the blue. We’ve seen them both struggle with their emotions and feelings for each other for a while at this point. Maybe we’ve seen it more from Tim’s side lately and that’s why it was surprising that it was Lucy who just blurted it out.
But I think it’s so wonderfully in character for her to just get lost in the moment and say what she’s been feeling for so long now because the word ‘scared’ triggered everything she’s been trying to ignore and work through. Her biggest fear is losing Tim completely.
“Most important relationship in [her] life.” Yeah, I was not expecting to hear this. But I love it. We all know Lucy doesn’t want to put names to her relationships. She didn’t want to with Nolan (sorry for even mentioning this), not with Emmett and she made it perfectly clear that mr. hums-the-song was her WIP, not her boyfriend.
But with Tim it’s somehow been a relationship for a while. She even called it that on her last day of training, which I still find hilarious, btw. They’re not together. Tim doesn’t even think she feels the same way as he does. Clearly, he was not expecting to hear this, either.
She’s literally stunned him into silence. Look at the look on his face. He can’t believe what he’s hearing. He’s never been put first in any relationship. Okay, I firmly believe that he was Isabel’s priority once upon a time, but she too, chose something else over him at the end. Just like everybody else has.
But suddenly he hears Lucy say he is the most important to her. Him. Not anybody else. Him. Tim is the most important person in someone’s life.
And then we see Lucy as she realizes what she just revealed to him. And she tries to backtrack. She’s not taking it back – she’s simply realizing that maybe she shouldn’t have revealed herself to him and drop this on him.
But he doesn’t let her take it back. He agrees. Because they would lose each other if it didn’t work out. There’d be no going back to before. It’s either all in and risk it or continue this weird limbo they’ve found themselves in.
And Lucy takes Tim’s “You’re right” as confirmation that it’s not gonna happen. That it’s not worth it to risk it all. Because she doesn’t want to lose him. There’d be no other person able to fill the hole that losing Tim would create. So they should just keep going as they have. Right?
And yet. He doesn’t accept her “right?” the way he did in 5x01 in that hotel room. Because this is different. He can feel that this is different. That he seems to have a chance at a relationship with her after all. So he puts his cards on the table. And tells her that he thinks it is worth the risk.
“Unless it is.”
Three words. Just three words and now it’s Lucy’s turn to be speechless for a moment. Because she had honestly thought that he wasn’t an option, either. Not after he told her to go to UC school and it was “time for [her] to move on.” She took it as rejection, he thought he was doing her a favor by removing himself from the equation that seemed to leave no space for him.
We see the wheels turning in her head as she realizes that he seems to want this as much as she does. She lets out a little breath as the tiniest smile starts to form on her lips as she stares at Tim.
And he just looks back at her, gauging her reaction. He seems to find what he’s looking for because he leans back a bit, building up the courage to ask what he’s been dying to ask her for so long. Come on, we all know it’s true. His shoulders drop as he lets the weight fall off them and smiles.
He starts to form words as he leans toward her again, but takes another second before he lets them out. “Do you wanna get dinner sometime?”
Not ‘go on a date’. No. Because even in this moment, where they’re the only people that matter, he knows she still has a WIP. But he took his chance the moment he realized they were on the same page anyway. And I love it. Because he wastes no time at all to show her what he wants. He took a leap the second he realized she might feel the same way.
All the previous heartbreak that started during his childhood seems to fade away from him. Right now, this is all that matters. Lucy is what matters. Because he matters to her, more than he ever thought possible. He’s willing to risk it all because all he wants, everything he’s been looking for his entire life, is right there in front of him.
I will never not tear up at the way his eyes are so glassy with emotion and brimming with hope. Hope that she’ll say yes. Hope that this is finally the start of something he’s wanted for longer than he realized.
And look at Lucy. She takes a moment to absorb everything that’s just happened. From realizing that she basically blurted out how she feels about him, to having him confirming that it’s reciprocated. That he’s willing to give this a shot because he believes they can make it work.
He believes in her. In them. And that’s beautiful. Because Lucy doesn’t have many people like that in her life. She grew up with parents who always expected more of her, no matter what she did. We saw that in a few episodes in previous seasons and it’s so heartbreaking because we know Lucy wants to make her parents proud. She wants their approval.
But they never gave it to her. And yet somehow, here’s Tim. Who believes in her. First professionally, then personally and now romantically. Who makes her feel like she is enough. Because she is. For him, she is more than enough. She’s everything.
They’ve both been exactly what the other has been looking for their entire lives. They’ve endured different kinds of trauma that only the other has managed to slowly heal because they’re two parts of one whole and only truly happy and themselves when they’re together. It sounds cheesy, but it’s true.
She answers so clearly, so… sure. Like, ‘Yes of course you idiot. Why wouldn’t I want to go out with you? Nothing I’d want more.’
And then the relief in his eyes when she says yes. My heart hurts in the best way possible whenever I watch this scene and hear his breathless little “Yeah?”’. Happy Tim is my absolute favorite thing to see on the show.
The elation of getting confirmation that she wants this just as much as he does. That she’s willing to risk it all with him. He’s been so afraid of getting rejected again, like he did in 5x01 (when, again, your timing was a bitch, Timothy). We saw how he considered talking to her in 5x06 in the parking lot and then the total devastation after the missed opportunity because a certain someone had to interrupt again.
So, this time, he took his chance the second he saw an opportunity.
But as happy and elated he his right there, he completely deflates after Lucy says “No” right after. Because that’s the answer he expected. The one he feared. The (apparent) rejection after putting his heart on the line.
He turns away from Lucy, trying to put the wall back up. His whole demeanor just changed. Watch his hands – he puts them up as if physically trying to distance himself again. But he accepts her ‘no’: “Okay”. Because her happiness will always matter more than his own.
But Lucy tries to make clear that’s not what she meant. “No, no, it’s just… not yet. I owe it to [jackass] to end things the right way with him”. (No you don’t Lucy. He’s an idiot.)
Again, Tim accepts her decision, turning away again. He looks like he’s ready to stand up to leave. But Lucy stops him. We can’t see it, but I’m guessing Lucy touches his leg to get his attention again. And she does; he turns back toward her again, listening to what she has to say.
“Ask me again. Later. After.”
There’s no question here as to what she wants. She’s not there yet, because she still as a WIP. But as soon as he’s gone, she wants this. She wants Tim. She’s ready to commit to the only guy she’s ever fallen for.
And we’re back to happy smiley Tim. “Deal”. He’ll wait as long as she needs. Because now he knows there’s something to wait for. He’s not alone in this. She’s right there with him and she wants it as much as he does.
And I cannot get over how they look at each other then. There’s nothing between them anymore but happiness and the knowledge that they want the same thing: to be together.
And for the first time we really see shy, bashful, in love Tim Bradford. Look at the way he looks away from Lucy. He looks like a lovesick puppy. And my heart is bursting with happiness again.
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I totally understand the (initial) confusion about this scene. Because yes, at first it did seem as if it came out of nowhere. And that there might be a scene or dialogue missing. But after some time to reflect on it, I’ve come to realize how much I love the way they handled it. Because it didn’t come out of nowhere.
Look, this relationship has always been super layered, long before they took the leap here.
But, as pointed out above, the way Lucy just blurts it out is beautiful to me.
Because she got comfortable with Tim in this moment. After months of being at odds with one another, she felt safe enough to finally say it.
Tim spent the whole shift helping her navigate what was bothering her - Assford and his insistence to annoy her with more house offers even though she was clearly uncomfortable while dealing with a tough case - and why it was bothering her – he’s not Tim.
It wasn’t supposed to be about Tim, but he didn’t even realize that the whole problem was him in the first place. He’s the reason why she can’t and won’t move forward with jackass. Because she can’t do that while not letting Tim go.
And that’s the whole point. After Tim told her it was time for her to move on in 5x02, she tried to make it work with dumbass. But in all that time, she’s never truly let Tim go. Because he’s the one she wants at her side, whether she’s always realized it or not.
She could stay with clueless as long as she tried to tell herself that Tim didn’t matter to her like that. But that firmly established wall kept crumbling ever since Tim drew it up. Every episode following 5x02 crumbles that wall further and further - until it’s finally gone in this beautiful scene outside their place of work.
Until Lucy finally realizes that no relationship will work as long as it’s not with Tim, she won’t give it her all. Yes, she tries to tell herself it’s not worth to take the risk, but as soon as Tim reveals his hand, she’s on board.
Because they both want the same thing. To finally be together, in every possible way and not just as quasi-partners on the job. Finally, they’re on the same page.
And what makes this even more special: it’s Tim being ready before Lucy is. It’s him waiting for her.
I never would’ve even imagined for it to happen this way around. Given everything we knew pre-season 5, Lucy seemed like the more likely option to want to talk about things. She always wants to talk things out.
But maybe I shouldn’t have been so surprised after 5x01. After all, Tim was the one who wanted to talk about them in that hotel room in Vegas. And yes, again, the timing was awful, seriously Timothy, but he couldn’t ignore the feelings stirring within him.
And the fact that Tim is even willing to risk it all with someone who’s become so extremely important to him is beautiful and shows how much he’s grown and found himself again since the Pilot. He’s been broken so many times before that nobody would blame him to just never try this again. Even Lucy inadvertently broke his heart in that Vegas hotel room.
But he wants to. With Lucy, he wants to, despite the previous heartbreak. Because she’s Lucy. Because she is one of the very few people who hasn’t just walked away. And she’s just offered him an in.
Yes, they’ve been distant with one another for months before this, but even then - she didn’t leave. She wanted to be there when he was injured and then raced back to the hospital after hearing he had emergency surgery to make sure he was ok. Even through their awkwardness, she stayed. She made an effort. She cared.
She’s seen every side of him and yet, she stayed.
It’s interesting, actually, that Lucy might have been one of the few people that Tim (briefly) walked away from. Because Tim holds on to the people he loves as tightly as he can but will also put their happiness above his own no matter how much it might hurt him.
He walked away from Isabel because he felt it was what was best for her, not for him and only once he knew she was getting better. We don’t know what happened with Rachel and who broke up with who, but she was the one to leave for another state. Lifeguard Bitch dumped him while he was in the hospital, right after he woke up from emergency surgery because he wouldn’t do what she wanted.
Lucy has never walked away from Tim. But there he was, willing to let her go because he felt that that was best for her. He put her (seemingly) best interest above his own. Because he couldn’t, or wouldn’t see that she didn’t regret what happened between them, that she values him for who he is. That he means more to her than she, or he, could’ve ever imagined. Because somewhere deep down, he still doesn’t believe he’s worthy of love. (I wish I could give pre-canon-Chenford Tim a hug so badly.)
For two people who know how to communicate with one another, they really did a number on themselves in eps 5x01 and 5x02. Neither one of them actually listens to the other. It’s not communicating. They don’t ask for clarification; they just assume to know what the other means.
Tim walked away in 5x02 before either one of them let their masks slip and we could see that they were both heartbroken, thinking the other regretted whatever it is that happened between them.
These two have evolved from TO and Rookie, who, for all intends and purposes, should never care about each other as anything more than colleagues, to friends during Lucy’s rookie year, to best friends who bicker and annoy each other like a married couple.
And somewhere along the way, they fell for each other without noticing, without meaning to. And I think neither one of them quite knew what do to once they had that moment of realization.
We saw them struggle with it up until the very end of 5x08 when it all came out. When they just couldn’t hold it in any longer. Because they’re the light in each other’s life and just want to be together.
And now they get to know what it’s like to actually be together the way they’ve wanted to for a while. From now on, they get to live life together. And I definitely didn’t tear up thinking about this last part.
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I understand everyone’s opinion about this episode, good or bad.
I simply think that, yes, it was a slow burn, but you can’t drag it out too long before it eventually burns out. Why create more drama when there is no real reason to? If they had written more drama for Chenford, it would’ve been created to keep more roadblocks in their way. No one would’ve wanted Lucy to move forward in her relationship with mr. boring. But that was the (almost) last thing keeping them apart.
What could they have done to keep them apart for longer? The only thing I would’ve been okay with would’ve been a time in which they just hang out as friends every chance they get before taking the plunge. Drama? I don’t want that.
But that might’ve also only lasted a few episodes before everything bubbled to the surface. Even with a slow burn, the flame’s gotta ignite at some point.
Okay, Tim being her superior would’ve actually been a very real obstacle that many of us thought would keep them apart for longer. Especially since he’s such a stickler for rules. But I think I get why they moved them forward the way they did. Both Tim and Lucy got caught up in the moment – nothing but the two of them mattered. No rules, no significant others, no power imbalance at work could’ve kept them from going after what they wanted.
The only thing that mattered was finally being able to be together after realizing they both wanted it.
I personally really appreciate that they kept this real. Yes, the writers chose to have 5x08 be the ep to move things forward. But story-wise, it’s very true to real life. Tim and Lucy didn’t have much of a choice but to ride together again after Grey told them to. Not without revealing what exactly the reason for their discomfort was.
Real life is when things happen when you least expect them. When you have to deal with things sooner than expected. When you blurt things out without thinking. When you put your heart on the line without knowing how the other feels.
I haven’t been in this fandom long and have only watched The Rookie and shipped Chenford since mid-2022. But even I was becoming inpatient for them to be together after only 6 months.
We’re all allowed to have our opinions. We can all have mature conversations about this and discuss it with respect. But the minute you completely disregard the fact that every person working on that show is a human being and call them names, and even tag them in those posts, you’ve gone too far.
They don’t owe us anything. They don’t have to move the story forward the way we want. Yes, fans keep shows going to a certain degree, but it’s the writers’ decision what to do. Or maybe it’s the network’s decision and they have to run with it and make it work.
Basically all I saw all summer long was comments about needing Chenford to be together asap. Then it happens, and yet, this is when the negativity (and disrespect) in the fandom started.
I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again: we were never all gonna get it the way we envisioned it. And maybe we all should’ve kept that in mind going into season 5 (I’m including myself in this, yes). But it’s okay to be disappointed.
Did I expect it to happen the way it did? Nope. Was I a little thrown at first? Yup. But I’ve fallen in love with it since then. It’s so them.
Let them learn together. Let them grow together. Let them become even better together.
There is so much left to explore. Them getting together opened up a whole new world of potential storylines. And I for one cannot wait to see what is next in their journey.
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Additional note 1:
I will forever be mad at The Rookie for making the-one-who-shall-not-be-named sound like the nicest guy when all I can see is red flag after red flag. They introduced him as a pesky ADA, who I immediately disliked, who was suddenly a real ‘nice guy’ the next time we saw him. It’s like they completely changed course and decided to use him in any way possible to keep Tim and Lucy apart. And make me uncomfortable in the process.
I know there might be some fans out there who really like him, but I just always see the guy humming the song Lucy sang to keep herself calm when she was dying. Dude, that’s the woman you’re dating. How does that song get stuck in your head and NOT trigger you?
Even this episode alone is reason enough for me to dislike him. I could go on for another 5 pages, but I’ll stop here and just say: I’m glad Lucy dumped him in maybe the least nicest way possible for someone as empathetic as her.
Additional note 2:
I’ve mostly been very positive about Chenford’s development, but even I can admit that some things haven’t sat right with me all the time (and I mean pre-canon and after), mostly because I expected things to happen differently at times. But that doesn’t mean the way they’re handling it is bad or wrong. We can’t expect for them to integrate callbacks to all the significant moments from earlier seasons.
I’ve simply chosen to be positive whenever I post something because I accept and appreciate what they’ve given us, but I understand and respect if some fans don’t. As long as we don’t expect everyone to see everything the way we do, and we don’t get all childish and mad when we don’t all agree (seriously, why do we always have to get mad at each other when we disagree on things?!), I’m happy to be here. Because Chenford and The Rookie are my safe space, my escape from reality. And sometimes I just need to get lost I these characters for a while to get back on track in real life.
Thank you to @escapismqueen for listening to my constant ramblings whilst writing this and being my nr one supporter while I was struggling to get this done! I think I need to credit her for some of this because we think so much alike that she easily could’ve written parts of this herself.
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