#I literally have so many notes and scene descriptions for every episode in form of excel spreadsheets

[scarefox]

The fact that I wrote my bachelors thesis about Jongwoo and how Moonjo broke him, how Jongwoos mental health spiraled through the plot and how the creators chose to show it to the audience via audio-visual storytelling (<3) which ENDED WITH ME getting broken down by the dramas complexity, it's many meta levels and Jongwoo my beloved unreliable narrator shenanigans nobody can decipher. In hindsight it was the worst drama to analyze while I was already burnt out, anxious and depressed af during a global pandemic, but simultaneously it also was the best drama for that theme because it indeed is one of the best displays and metaphors of mental illnesses.

Already at the time I was aware of the self irony, still had a lot of fun with picking everything apart. It is now one of my comfort shows lol... even though the thesis phase was horrible and didn't end well. My profs said I had some good points and methods. But in the end I couldn't finish uni so I never presented the work and never got their full feedback. (grade was mediokre bad imo because I couldn't finish spell checks and formalities at the end which is one of the most important parts of a scientific final paper unfortunately.... and my profs were salty that I used easier to access online sources more than old outdated books but hey I kind of mainly wrote that thing for myself not for the public 🤷‍♂️ ....)

Anyways, one thing I wanted to share from my analysis: I counted the times and situations Moonjo uses "Jagiya", generally as an indicator for when he directly manipulates Jongwoo, vs how Jongwoos behavior and mental health changes over time.

Just to understand the significance of "Jagiya": Moonjo uses it kind of as trigger word but also to get this emotional trust bond with Jongwoo (despite Jongwoo says he hates it, he still feels flattered at first). He always uses it when he wants Jongwoo to do something or to think a certain way. He almost just uses it when they are alone. When Jongwoos boss and girlfriend are present in the bar scene, it's even the first time Moonjo calls Jongwoo by his actual name. With Mrs. Eom they call him (room) 303

(do not reupload or use without my permission!)

Well, and based on that I looked into how these scenes were shot and differentiating from each other. Like camera work, frames, colors, effects, sound, hard cut / soft cuts, transitions etc. IT WAS A LOT, way too much I didn't anticipate going into it. I only watched it once then, to keep the impression fresh, which is adviced for movie analysis of 'scene impressions' to not delude it by your own thoughts and knowledge. BUT THE THING IS... Strangers From Hell changes a lot when you watch it again!!! You find so much more details all of a sudden, when you know how it ends.

[kassysyd]

“Her Sweet Kiss” - A Short  Analysis

Preface: In my job, a key part of my role is to select and analyse various different forms of poetry (yes, lyrics are a type of poem) so, I am keenly aware of the difference between what could be considered quality poetic verse and the doggerel we frequently hear passed off as lyrics in modern songs. I was expecting the latter from the soundtrack to Netflix’s The Witcher, I was wrong.

 Although, at first listen “Her Sweet Kiss” appeared to be a simple love ballad, the uncommon depth and intricacy of the symbolism stunned and forced me to take another listen. Additionally, its arrangement within key scenes of the episode, as well as the inclusion of both alternative lyrics and instrumental versions was ingenious. I don’t have time to do a full analysis, instead, I have pulled together a basic overview of the key elements which stood out to me from this marvellously complex song. I hope this may assist you with your own interpretations.

 Before we start analysing the lyrics, let’s look at the contextual placement of this song within the episode 'Rare Species'. It is featured at three key moments; the opening scene showing Jaskier composing the song, the sex scene between Geralt and Yennifer and then finally played over the credits.   

 In the opening scene, Jaskier is shown singing and composing while waiting for Geralt to return from a hunt. The lyrics are slightly different here and include the adjectives ‘gorgeous’ and ‘lovely’ in reference to the ‘Garroter’ character. He asks the men nearby whether the metaphorical use of ‘garroter’ is too ‘cerebral’, indicating that it is indeed symbolic of someone (Geralt). The lines “I’m weak, my love, and I am wanting… Gorgeous Garroter, jury and judge”, are sung by Jaskier and introduce the concept that the narrator is in love with someone but is also conflicted about their choice to follow them on 'The Path' (more on this later). It is also important to note that the notebook resting on his thigh contains an alternative version of the lyrics which do not feature the secondary 'her' character yet and instead focus instead on the narrator’s own weakness and inability to leave what he feels in an unfair relationship 'If I were a man of more merit,  if I were a man of resolve I’d leave you behind, get my fair peace of mind'.  

 The second time the song is heard during the sex scene between Geralt and Yennifer. This time the song is purely instrumental. The moment where they first kiss, the chorus line 'She’ll destroy with her sweet kiss' is playing. As the audience had already heard some of the song, they would recognize it. But as they only heard the earlier version, which describes only the narrator’s willingness to suffer to be with the one he loves, the full significance of the song is not yet established with the audience. This lack of audible lyrics further symbolizes the narrator’s uncertain feelings towards their relationship at this point in the episode. But also unambiguously associates the song with both Geralt and Yennefer, establishing it as a proxy theme song for their romance and further supporting the argument that the characters from the song are indeed Geralt and Yennifer.

 The final time this song is heard is over the end credits, this time the song is sung by Jaskier and plays in full. The previous ambiguity is sharply contrasted here when the revised set of lyrics are presented to the audience and the true theme of the is song revealed (Jaskier’s anguish). The final scene between Geralt, Yennifer and Jaskier is key to contextualizing these lyrics as it directly foreshadows many lines and themes explored in the song. For example, in Jaskier’s line 'that’s not fair' echoing the lyrics directly and the show’s constant depiction of Yennefer using storm imagery (both themes explored in more detail below).

 The Characters

The song contains three distinct characters 'I/Narrator', 'You/Garrotter' and 'Her'.

 'I/Narrator' – The narrator of the song, possibly Jaskier – It has been established in songs such as ‘Toss a Coin to Your Witcher’ that Jaskier frequently writes from his own perspective and as clearly illustrated in the lines 'When a humble Bard, graced a ride along with Geralt of Rivia along came this song' frequently portray Geralt as their protagonist (this is also canonical for the books, but, I’m limiting my interpretations to the show). Additionally, many key themes and concepts from the lyrics directly reference Jaskier’s own life and experiences (explored in more detail in later paragraphs). It is later shown that Jaskier has written so many highly successful songs about Geralt that the prostitute in the opening scene of ‘Betrayer Moon’ was able to identify his scars by their relevant songs and was surprised to find one that she did not recognize. It can plausibly be argued that ‘Her Sweet Kiss’ is both autobiographical and includes Geralt as a key character.

 'You/Garotter' - The love interest of the narrator and also addressed as 'My Love' and 'Fool'  -  We can connect this 'Garotter' character with ‘Geralt’ through both the phonological similarity between the words and in scene featuring Marilka in the episode 'The End’s Beginning' when she points out 'Geralt'… like Garroter?' a canonically explicit linking of the names. ‘Garotter’ is a term for a killer, specifically, someone who does so through strangling, symbolic of Geralt’s employment. Jaskier himself points out that the ‘metaphor’ may be to ‘cerebral’, indicating to us the audience the need to interpret the line figuratively rather than literally.

 'Her'- The rival for the narrators love interest - A woman described as a destructive and unjust force, using wild, nature-based metaphors such as ‘storms’ and ‘currents’ to describe her ‘love’. Repeatedly throughout the show Yennefer is also described using similar nature/storm imagery, such as Geralt’s description of her 'like a tornado wreaking havoc' (a line Jaskier is shown to have overheard as the camera pans to him).  

 The evidence then supports the supposition that the song may well be written from Jaskier’s perspective, exploring his feeling regarding Geralt’s and Yennifer’s relationship (for a discussion on the dubious nature of consent in this relationship see my other post). For convenience of analysis, from here on I will be assuming the narrator is Jaskier, the 'Her' character is Yennifer and the 'You/Garotter' character is Geralt'.

 The Lyrics

  The ‘’fairer sex’’ they often call it, but her love’s as unfair as a crook.

  Jaskier opens the song by comparing the cliché of women being 'the fairer sex' with the simile 'love’s as unfair as a crook' (an old-fashioned term for a criminal or thief). As ‘fair’ has the dual meaning of both beauty and justice, his description of her as ‘unfair’ attacks both her beauty and her morality. The simile comparing her to a 'crook' (an old-fashioned term for a criminal or thief) suggests that Jaskier feels that she acts both unjustly and steals her love (a possible oblique reference Yennifer’s willingness to use magic to coerce sexual behaviour and disregard consent – as illustrated by the scene Jaskier witnessed in ‘Bottled Appetites’ where she compels a large group of apparently unwilling participants to engage in group sex). The song also echoes Jaskier’s dialogue 'That’s not fair' after Geralt unfairly lashes out at him after his argument with Yennefer, providing further evidence for the autobiographical nature of the song.   

  It steals all my reason, commits every treason of logic with naught but a look.

  Yennifer’s ‘love’, he argues ‘steals’ (continuing the symbolism of her immorality) and commits ‘treason’ (the crime of betrayal) furthering the description of her as being both unlawful and ‘unfair’ in her relationship with Geralt. These lines also illustrate the despair Jaskier feels over not being able to convince Geralt of her corrupt nature. He feels that she can defeat or prevent his ‘logic’ and ‘reason’ easily, ‘with naught but a look’.

  A storm raging on the horizon of longing, and heartache, and lust

 The show repeatedly correlates Yennifer’s behaviour with the destructive forces of nature, and storms in particular. Scenes such as that at Aretusa where she bodily subsumes lightning then uses it to attack another student and when Geralt describes her as a ‘tornado wrecking havoc’ among others, highlight this correlation. Jaskier describing her as a 'storm' that is 'raging' highlights his perception of her as both destructive and aggressive. The storm in this line is be symbolic of Yennifer herself, showing that Jaskier recognizes her arrival as leading to ‘heartache’ and ‘lust’ rather than genuine love between her and Geralt.

  She’s always bad news, it’s always lose-lose

 The repetition of ‘always’ in these lines clearly illustrate how desperately Jaskier feels about the situation. He argues that involvement with her will inevitably lead to pain and loss for all of them, there is no way to win.

  So, tell me, Love, tell me, Love. How is that just?

  This line is a direct address to Geralt (his ‘Love’), begging him to explain, to see, to speak to him and understand. The rhetorical question 'How is that just?' again draws back to the concept of the ‘unfairness’ and injustice of her relationship with Geralt, Jaskier feels that she ‘steals’ love rather than earning or winning it (again a possible reference to lack of consent). The use of a rhetorical question also implies that he feels powerless and unable to expect any response to his pleas.

  But the story is this. She’ll destroy with her sweet kiss. Her sweet kiss

  Here Jaskier is using juxtaposition to show how her ‘sweet kiss’ (symbolic of her sexual relationship with Geralt) will ‘destroy’ him. He sets the tone by stating as fact that ‘The story is this', affirming his opinion that no other possible narrative exists beyond her storm-like destruction of their relationship and Geralt himself.

  Her current is pulling you closer, a charge in the hot, humid night.

  This line again uses the theme of the destructive power of nature, Yennefer is like a ‘current’ pulling Geralt towards her. The repeated portrayal of Yennefer as a destructive force of nature somewhat dehumanises her, correlating her actions with an uncaring inhuman force rather than that of a woman with genuine affections.

 The red sky at dawn is giving a warning. You Fool better stay out of sight

 This line references an ancient mariners rhyme 'Red sky at night, sailors' delight.Red sky at morning, sailors' warning.' meant to warn sailors of an impending storm when a red sky is seen at dawn. Jaskier is again using the ‘storm’ metaphor to warn Geralt about Yennifer. He addresses Geralt directly, calling him a ‘fool’ and advising him to hide from her destruction. 

  I’m weak, my love, and I am wanting. If this is the path I must trudge.

  This line provides a key insight into the identities of the characters and their relationship to each other. In Witcher canon 'The Path' is the name given to the life of a Witcher as he journeys around the continent battling monsters. It’s somewhat comparable to the religious concept of a 'calling'. By describing his choice to accompany Geralt on his quests as 'trudging' indicates that he does not enjoy the journey aspect of their relationship, but also signals his acceptance of this as the price he must pay for a relationship with Geralt.

 To further this point, in the show Jaskier does not always join Geralt in his actual monster battles, instead, it is implied that Geralt himself later recounts the stories. This is evidenced by the lines 'Geralt’s usually so stingy with the details' and later 'I’ll go get the rest of the story from the others'. This habit of receiving the tale after the events reveals that there is no need for Jaskier to continuously accompany Geralt on his journeys, multiple tales could just as easily be collected from Geralt or others (as seen in the tavern scene) at a later date. It can be supposed then that Jaskier, therefore, chooses to accompany Geralt for ‘love’, a reason which is also explored in the notebook version of the lyrics, 'If I were a man of more merit, if I were a man of resolve I’d leave you behind, get my fair peace of mind' It is implied here that he should leave but can’t because his love for Geralt is too powerful.

  I’ll welcome my sentence, give to you my penance. Garroter, jury and judge

 Jaskier’s conflicted feelings about his choice to accompany Geralt is explored further in the line above. He described the act of joining 'the path' as a form of punishment ('sentence' and 'penance') for being 'weak' and desirous ('wanting' Geralt). This ‘sentence’ is enforced by a 'jury and judge', the Garotter (Geralt).  

 The song’s repeated use of justice/legal symbolism is interesting. He places Geralt into the role of a 'Jury and Judge' passing out sentences from a position of power and control over Jaskier (and arguably Yennefer). Yennifer is described as a 'crook' who 'steals' and commits 'treason', but is not punished for these criminal acts. Instead, it is Jaskier himself who is punished, made to give 'penance'. He feels this is an injustice and 'unfair'. This sentiment neatly reflects the events of 'Rare Species', where after his disastrous romance with Yennefer, Geralt lashes out at Jaskier, accusing him of causing all of his misfortune.

 It can be imagined then that Jaskier may have taken his half-composed love song and written new lyrics in direct reaction to that betrayal; his pain laid bare in verse.   

[ae0nx]

FRUITS BASKET S2 EPISODE 18 + short Ep 1-17 english dub recap

AND I'M BACK WITH THE MADNESS.

Took a bit of a break from the Fruits Basket recaps because life happened and I wanted to focus a bit more on my art career and my webcomic. But, I came to miss doing the recaps! So, I'm gonna try and finish season 2 and do some of the left over recaps now in time for when Season 3 drops!

I HAVE however been re-watching the older episodes of Fruits Basket Season 2 with the english dub this time and I have a few notes!:

A shoutout to the wording used in the Yuki 'confession' scene on the beach with Tohru. However, in the sub the confession came across a lot more like platonic love to me and in the dub the confession came across a lot more romantic. (Especially in the episode after where Yuki says he doesn't regret kissing Tohru lol)

Laura Bailey stays killing it as Tohru. All the little vocal inflections are so freakin cute and make her sound more human! But that also speaks to the editing as well which is great. The balance between a little naive and scared and yet strong and determined in her scene with Akito was... amazing.

(Also... all of Akito’s most violent and hurtful moments are when it’s dark... I dunno I just found that cool and interesting lol)

Jerry Jewell in EPISODE 9?!?! His scene with Akito always gets me regardless but Jerry Jewell's performance was heartbreaking! Ah, I could cry. (I did) The little shake he did while declaring he wasn't in love with Tohru because he can't say that shit actually truthfully? 😩 Also... is he intentionally making Kyo’s voice sound a little deeper? It definitely sounded like it in that episode with Kagura. I like!!

While I LOATHE Akito, Colleen Clinkenbeard is amazing, I've never heard her sound this sneakingly evil! And yet... it's slightly carefree too. Reminds me a lot of Shigure. As I said before, Akito and Shigure's english VAs pair up so nicely in audible form.

I love how flirty Hatori was in the English dub when it came to him and Mayu’s episode. It was a really lovely performance from Kent Williams :) I always read that scene of Hatori just being friendly when asking Mayu out to get something to eat but this was a whole other wonderful take!!! <3

I LOVE KIMI TODO’S ENGLISH VA’S PERFORMANCE OMG. THANK YOU, CHERAMAI LEIGH 🤣

Kakeru’s English VA continues to sound cuter and cuter... 😘 Whassup, Aaron Dimsuke? I kid, lol

I lovee the fact that Haru calls Yuki ‘fragile and kind’ (two typically feminine presenting descriptions) and Yuki took it as a compliment! I dunno about the description of fragile as many people could take that offensively, regardless of gender, but the way it’s explained here it’s almost like he’s describing him as precious?... Coulda went with that instead...

I like the decisions for the moments where Mikaela Krantz emphasises on Momiji’s put on German accent and when she tones it down and return to his natural voice

But anyways... lol, this episode was... a LOT. Not an easy breezy one for me to come back to at all... I’ll be watching the english dub.

TIME TO DIVE BACK IN!

-------------------------------------------

- Hiro's so cute at the start of this episode talking about his sibling and how he wants to look out for his mum. Of course, it's in the most Hiro of ways but this scene definitely warmed me up to him a lot more :)

Hiro’s mum is like a future Tohru, haha

That hair animation they give Rin is always great 😂 I hope Takaya-sensei is proud.

It’s so curious how Hiro speaks so honestly and true to Rin yet is so careful of her emotions. He’s never really been like this with anyone but Kisa, especially not the other teens or adults. It kinda shows how much seeing what happened to Rin by Akito’s hands really got to him and traumatised him. Of course, Hiro’s not just doing this because of his trauma but cos he genuinely cares!

- I noticed that there was a slight parallel between Hiro + Kisa and Rin + Haru. Kinda highlights why breaking the curse is important to Hiro and gives more reason as to why that event with Rin and Akito freaked him out.

- I dunno if this is intentional or just an animation glitch but I’ve noticed that in that long panning shot in the opening theme that closes into Yuki, Tohru and Kyo looking at the sunset, it looks like Kyo’s experession kinda ‘glitches’ in between a smile and a stoic look. Again, I don’t know if it was intentional, but I like to think it’s as a little show of Kyo not really managing to attain true happiness fully (for now anyway).

- (Also, I think that this opening song might come third in my list of most favourite opening songs in Fruits Basket history!!! <3<3<3)

- I’m super glad that Shigure and Rin scene didn’t go any further than it needed to... 👀 but the fact that Rin thought ‘Gure would be up for using her body as a bargaining chip says more about Shigure than Rin in my humble opinion...

Self-loathing? From Shigure? Unexpected. Empathy? For him? A little.

...Damn it.

🤣

I’m sorry. This scene is very gorgeous, well lit and beautiful and dramatic. But, I can’t not laugh at how early 00s gothic romance this is! But, I love it. It’s sweet and probably the first ‘raunchy’ scene we’ve gotten in this anime, ooo la! But, that kiss animation was kinda awkward for me, sorry. 🤷🏾‍♀️

I hate that Rin is AGAIN getting Outfit Appreciation Award when she’s literally killing herself with stress and worry but... amazing wardrobe as always. 5 stars.

Is it just me or does every zodiac member see Tohru as a parental figure or associate her with motherhood, except for Kyo?... 

*mentally notes essay of Tohru being the depiction of being a ‘merciful God’ compared to Akito being the decpiction of being a ‘vengeful God’*

Heartbreaking. 

but... WHY DO THEY ALL HAVE TO HAVE PARENTAL ISSUES?!

Also, Briana Palencia in this scene was amazing. Everyone is so, so good in this show! Dub and sub!!

...I totally forgot about this bit of Rin’s backstory. I love that they really highlighted how drastic the change was from happy family to an abusive household. Obviously, there must have been some cracks in the frame of the happy family and Rin as a child was inquisitive enough to see them. ...Only for her to be later punished for it. 

Kazuma!!! He and Tohru just be constantly saving these zodiac kids, man.

- Rin’s parents might just be at the same level as Kyo’s dad on the ‘WORST PARENTS OF THE ZODIAC CHILDREN’ list. Well... until later...

🥺💝

Beginning to understand why they’re so attached and bonded to each other now. <3

- Also, lowkey, Kagura’s mum is great! From her protecting Kagura from going to the beach house because of Akito to her taking Rin in without question! And she seemed completely cool with Kyo too! Yay to good parents in anime!!!

- The confession scene between Haru and Rin is so pure and blunt yet romantic and just... so them <3

- I’m not even gonna put any screencaps from the final scene with Akito because I find Akito is just disgusting. But, really? Pushing someone off the balcony?! I mean... I remember why Akito’s feelings for Rin are so strong and darkly intense but I still can’t excuse their actions. I kinda don’t like that they presented this very abusive and violent moment as... poetic? I mean, it matches Rin’s ‘style’, I guess? But... this is just someone going past the limit.

- And her landing like that on the conveniently pointy stone? I was surprised she didn’t damage her spine...

----------------------------------------------------------

I’m so happy I’m watching Fruits Basket again! This anime really is the best! And it DESERVEDLY won Best Drama at the CrunchyRoll Anime Awards! Yayyyyy! Sorry, if this ended on a weird note, I did enjoy this episode. Just a very dark one to return to 😅

See you... soon? Haha!

[anncanta]

The imagery of BBC ‘Dracula’: mythology, alchemy, literature. Part 2

Part 1 is here.

Mirror

One of the cross-cutting images of the entire work, which underlies the very narrative structure on which it is built, the image of the mirror is one of the most ancient in European culture. Which is not surprising – a reflective surface capable of showing a person himself was probably initially perceived as magical – not by chance, as in the situation with photography, the earliest myths and fears associated with mirrors speak of soul abduction.

In Dracula, the image of the mirror is presented at the same time as a literal object that the protagonist fears, his main phobia, a metaphor for his ability/inability to look at himself, and the resulting all this motive of duality that unfolds the story as a drama of reflections.

Let's start with a literal mirror. I don't know if you noticed, but in the first episode, with the exception of the scene in Jonathan's room in Dracula's castle, there are no mirrors at all. And even that only thing of Harker Dracula instantly breaks. It is interesting how he does it – not as a negative character, grimacing angrily at the sight of a hated object, or an unforgettable queen in various versions of the story about Snow White, destroying a mirror showing her not what she wants. Dracula breaks the mirror instinctively, doing it in one movement as if delaying or trying to think about it could be almost more dangerous than the object itself is. It is possible that this is so. He then tells Jonathan that he cannot provide him with another mirror in return, as he does not keep such things in his house. From that moment on, not once during the two episodes did he look at his reflection, including the scene with Dorabella, where the Count shows a young woman what could have been in her life, reflected in the water, but does not look into it himself.

The third episode looks in huge contrast to the first two. Now Dracula, who woke up in the twenty-first century, looks at himself constantly. In fact, if you peer closely, he does just that throughout the episode. And not only literally, but also metaphorically. Which, in general, is logical: given the events that took place in the castle, and then on Demeter, we can assume that for the first time in many years Dracula plucked up the courage to see himself, to meet with himself and think about what he was.

Judging by what the Count sees in the mirror, the answer is not very inspiring.

It turns out that there is nothing majestic, bright, and attractive either in himself or in his life. His spectacular charming appearance is a mask, an illusion, and an old man with gray hair and sunken eyes looks to him from the window glass, his house is a pompous empty room, trying to replace the unattainable sun with an excess of artificial light, his woman is a silly girl who is not afraid of death because she is unable to appreciate life.

The ruthlessness and brightness of the reflections leave no chance for false interpretations. In this sense, the relationship between Dracula and his new lawyer is especially eloquent. You need to understand that the reflection of Jonathan Harker in modern reality is not Jack Seward, but Renfield. Obsequious, stupid, pitiful, ready to do anything for the sake of influence and power. It is the worst mirror the Count has ever seen, and, as he begins to conjecture, perhaps just the one he deserves.

The reflection in Renfield and in Lucy leads Dracula in the end to what he fled from for so many years.

To the needle and the sun.

Needle

When you talk about images in works of art, you always have to keep in mind that images are inseparable from motives and plots with which they travel through time and that every time you discover a particular object and symbol in a text, you, like a fisherman in an old fairy tale, can bring the whole world to the surface. And it doesn't matter at all whether the image is large or small, is it constantly mentioned in the text or is the central one in a single short episode.

In Dracula, the needle occurs only once, but its appearance can serve as an example of how a single image, arising, ‘gathers’ an archetypal story around itself.

Globally, in Dracula, there are two central archetypal plots: the plot of the beauty and the beast and the plot of the sleeping beauty. I suggest looking at how one of them works at the image level.

I'm talking about the plot of the sleeping beauty. 

Let`s recall the episode in the isolation ward. What does Dracula do before making an incision in his arm and filling a test tube with blood? That's right, he gives Zoe a needle. The same spindle, which in a fairy tale makes a sleeping beauty fall asleep (symbolically, like a caterpillar, plunge into a transformative state, from which it will emerge as a butterfly).

In the film, Dracula plays both the role of a witch taking revenge for the fact that she was not invited to the party, and a prince called to wake up the beauty. This is literally shown in the scene when, in a vision of Zoe, who drank the Count's blood, Agatha and Zoe look into each other's eyes, connected by Dracula and standing on opposite sides of him. Moreover, pay attention – Zoe stands behind the Count's back, symbolizing the past, while Agatha is right in front of him, metaphorically meaning the future.

Well, and if this is not enough for someone, a little later they will show us Zoe, lying in bed, and Agatha, entering the door.

And what comes after her?

Sun 

Author`s note

This part of the article contains thoughts that I unexpectedly discovered a few days ago in a beautiful text The Petruvian Man by @devoursjohnlock. I highly recommend this article to those who are interested in the topic of images and the structural construction of Dracula.

In the first episode, the sun rarely appears, in the second it is hidden almost all the time behind clouds or fog, and in the third it crosses the hero's path several times in a row – first in Bob's house, where Zoe threatens to collapse the roof if Dracula does not surrender, then – in the form of golden light, hugging the building of the Jonathan Harker foundation, where the Count is brought in a box, until it finally bursts into the window of Dracula's own house, categorically and victoriously, putting an end to all the vague games.

We will not talk here about the meaning of the sun as reason, consciousness, openness, new life, clarity, and realization of an integral personality. This is understandable, and we talked about this earlier. Let's look at it as an image that is used in this text a little unusual, but that's why it is no less interesting, creating depth and additional context where you don't expect it.

We are talking about the scene at the very beginning, in the first episode, which at first glance seems to be nothing more than a joke, an attempt by the writers to ‘dilute’ the drama, so to speak. But it's not that simple.

Remember how Dracula leads Jonathan Harker to his room and walks past the portraits of Petruvio and the architect’s wife? Remember what he says to Jonathan?

‘This castle was the Widower`s final work. A monument to his lost love and the sunlight, to which he could never return.’ And then Dracula adds: ‘...he died here in the arms of his wife,’ – in response to Jonathan's remark how this could be possible, as Petruvio was a widower, saying: ‘It must have been a cold embrace.’

Reflecting later on this gloomy joke, Johnny concludes that Petruvio considered his wife his sun: ‘What else is sunlight, but the face of one`s beloved?’, and guesses that behind her portrait is hidden a plan of the castle. And then words follow, which, in combination with what was said earlier, create an image that becomes a kind of symbolic prologue to the entire text and at the same time a brief description of the plot.

Finding the plan, Johnny deciphers it and discovers a way out behind Petruvio's portrait. Then he says: ‘Petruvio’s wife was the sunlight, and he stood guard at the door.’

Does it remind you of anything?

What happens in the last scene in the third episode?

The catharsis of the uniting of the two, which became possible only because both realized and accepted their – as we could see from the very beginning – natural roles in this play. Agatha took the role of the sunlight and the liberating power of love and mind, and Dracula – the role of the door.

And on a figurative level, this was laid down from the first minutes of the film. Spoken in words for those who do not read visual messages. Down to the smallest details, like the architect who died in the arms of his wife, who by that time was already dead. As well as Agatha, who was physically dead for one hundred and twenty-three years by the end of the third episode.

Rather, as in the case of the needle, and in many others, here words only confirm and express directly what is said at the symbolic level, and it is impossible to separate one level from other. Reading them at the same time, moving between them, and looking at them together, you can see the whole story, and even guess what is it about.

But more on that later.

Part 3.

[eirikrjs]

The Satanael Solution

An anon recently sent me their own take on Satanael in P5, beginning with this simple question: 

This has been on my mind for some time, but who does Satanael’s compendium entry refer to?

An archangel who is said to be the form of Satan before he fell from Heaven. The second son of God, he rebelled against Him for freedom and bestowed free will and chaos upon humanity.

It got me thinking about it as well. About drawing from the same old wells, that is. If you recall, the book Angels: An Endangered Species by Malcolm Godwin, a tome of dubious character and specious content, seems to be why SMT claims Metatron is violent and why Gabriel became female in SMT2. Keep in mind that this is a book cited in official Atlus bibliographies!

To answer the anon’s question, the “who” is still Satanael. Unsurprisingly, the book also contains the sum total of all Atlus descriptions and depictions of Satanael. The quality of that information is a whole different story, though. If you want to take a shortcut, check out the book excerpts above and keep the Satanael profile and his role in P5 in mind while you do.

Read on to find out lots more!

First, here is the anon’s original submission:

_______________________________________________________

This has been on my mind for some time, but who does Satanael’s compendium entry refer to?

An archangel who is said to be the form of Satan before he fell from Heaven. The second son of God, he rebelled against Him for freedom and bestowed free will and chaos upon humanity.

Most of it is vague enough to be applicable to any devil figure. But the ‘second son of God’ bit kind of makes concrete identification problematic. The Bogomil Satanail, from what I can find, is the first son of God, with Michael-Jesus being the second. The 2 Enoch Satanail, if I remember correctly, never has his order of birth/creation discussed.

Then there’s this bit from Megaten wiki:

In some Gnostic traditions, Satanael is said to be an angel that once served the Demiurge. He rebelled when he realized that the Demiurge was not the true God and granted humanity the knowledge to liberate themselves from the Demiurge.

Is there any basis for this? This story is parroted on TV-tropes and in YouTube comments, but I can’t for the life of me find anything that would corroborate this tale.

Honestly, the best candidate I found is a Satan figure named Beliar from “Questions of Bartholomew”. Let's see how he stacks to the compendium entry:

An archangel who is said to be the form of Satan before he fell from Heaven. Check. Straight up, pre-fall - Satanael, post-fall - Beliar.

The second son of God, Kind of. He repeatedly says how he was the first angel. However (if I correctly understood notes on this page), the Vienna Manuscript version of “Questions of Bartholomew” has him mention that before angels were created, God had his Son. That would make Satanael the second son (if angels = sons of God).

he rebelled against Him for freedom Again, kind of. He rebelled because he refused to worship Adam, which can be interpreted as refusing to follow what he saw an arbitrary order from the authority figure, which in turn can be seen as bid for freedom.

and bestowed free will and chaos upon humanity. Yet again, kind of. He poisoned the water in Eden with his sweat (and hair in some versions), Eve drank it and it corrupted her. I guess the episode with serpent and fruit of tree of knowledge of good and evil follows after that, with Satanael implicitly being the serpent there, but don’t quote me on that. So he introduced disobedience to God, which can be synonymized with chaos and free will.

Beliar’s story contains some narrative parallels with the scenes following the first gameplay segment of Persona 5.

Beliar:                                                                                          

Is brought in for Bartholomew’s interrogation by a very large number of angels (the number varies between versions).

Is chained.

Gets his neck stepped on.

Gives his original angelic name. Until then we only heard his demonic one.

Is forced to recount his tale of how he fell.

Said fall started with refusal to worship Adam, even though God commanded it.

The P5 protagonist:

Is captured and brought in by a very large number of cops.

Is handcuffed.

Gets his head stepped on by the bug-eyed cop.

Gives his civilian name (or rather we give it). Until then we only hear his thief codename.

Recounts his own “crimes”.

Said “crimes” started with confronting Shido, who by the will of society or societal order, which is metaphorically the decision-making God here, has a position that implies automatic respect for him (who also believed himself to be God’s chosen, unless that’s just a Japanese turn of phrase translated too literally).

Finally, Satanael-Beliar seems to have some Gnostic leanings himself, if this quote of his is anything to go by:

And when I came from the ends of the earth Michael said: Worship thou the image of God, which he hath made according to his likeness. But I said: I am fire of fire, I was the first angel formed, and shall worship clay and matter?

Disdain for the materialistic is one of the more common tenets of Gnostic traditions. So I could see this Satanael not getting along with a very materialism-oriented Yaldabaoth, if you put them in the same room (I believe there is a bit more going on in this confrontation, but I’ll save that for another time, when I have the quotes to back up my assumptions).

So, what do you think? Is this a plausible take?

________________________________________________________

First, a fantastic exercise in research! Is it plausible? Probably not. That said, mentioning Beliar/Belial brings up an interesting aside. Here is his profile in the SMT1 remakes:

"Origin: Israel. The fallen angel Satanel. He is known as the prince of lies and swindling. He rides a chariot of fire and has the appearance of two soft-spoken angels. However, contrary to his appearance, he is one of the most evil and lowly beings that exists. It is said that he is the one who brought immorality to Sodom and Gammorah." 

Like you said, the Questions of Bartholomew says that Beliar’s/Satan’s pre-fall name is Satanael. That’s the only reason for this blurb in Belial’s profile which is otherwise just the Goetia description. Unfortunately, the Questions of Bartholomew Satanael is still just another devil figure in a Christian worldview, i.e., he’s bad news. And definitely not a demiurge or associated with a demiurge.

As for how Atlus themselves sees Satanael, here’s his profile from Kaneko Pandemonium volume 1:

And machine-transcribed:

サタナエル【キリスト教】 サタナエルは、サタナイルとも呼ばれる悪魔で、元は神の息子でキリストと兄弟であるとされる。 一説ではうサタンの正式名称ともされている 。 神の座を奪おうと、サタナエルは天使の3分の1を巻き込んで谋反を起こそうとしたが、未然に発覚してしまい、神により仲間の天使たちとともに天界から追放された。 このことから様な異教の神と重ね合わされ、七つの大罪 (高慢 ・怠惰・羨望・好色・怨念・大食・貪欲) のすべてを司る存在となった。 追放されたサタナエルは仲間とともに「第二の天」であるこの世界を作ったという。 【登場作品】 デビルサマナーソウルハッカーズ [Lv.70/Dark-Chaos] 

And machine-translated with some corrections:

Satanael [Christianity] Satanael is a devil also called Satanail and is said to be the son of God and a brother to Christ. According to one theory, it is the formal name of Satan. In order to take the throne of God, Satanael tried to provoke a rebellion involving one-third of the angels, but it was discovered and he was banished from heaven with fellow angels. For this, he was conflated with pagan gods and presided over all Seven Deadly Sins (pride, laziness, envy, lust, hatred, gluttony, and greed). The exiled Satanael is said to have created this world, the "second heaven", with his associates. [Appearances] Devil Summoner Soul Hackers [Lv.70/Dark-Chaos]

So, the non-traditional claims about Satanael are thus:

son of God, brother to Christ

equated with “fallen” deities

he who rules over the Seven Deadly Sins

the creator this world

And here’s the P5 profile for convenience, which is just a condensed version of what you just read:

An archangel who is said to be the form of Satan before he fell from Heaven. The second son of God, he rebelled against Him for freedom and bestowed free will and chaos upon humanity.

That brings us to the source, the Angels book. Note that most of the time when the book says “Satan-el,” it’s just usually as a formality, indeed as the “formal name” of vanilla “accuser” Satan, particularly Satan as angel. I think. Confusingly, note that this “Satan-el” is claimed to also contain with him “Satan”; also he is equated with all the identities and deeds of every other demon named. This use of Satan-el by Godwin seems to have caused a key mistranslation into Japanese conflating his universal figure with the Satanael of Jewish apocrypha, hence the bizarre claims about Satanael in Pandemonium.

Anyway, some revealing Angels quotes from the above scans:

As son of God, brother to Christ:

Equated with other deities:

7 sins in one:

Satan-el as the demiurge (but not creator of “second heaven”; unsure where that comes from):

They totally cribbed from Angels for this profile! And on this last excerpt Godwin seems to casually assume that the all-encompassing baddie Satan-el is absolutely the same as the Gnostic demiurge. Also throughout the whole book, anything supernatural that isn’t a god he interprets as an angel, like Sophia here (but also valkyries; see the Lucifer page). Like I said in one of the other Angels posts, this book may have informed a lot of SMT’s preferential attitude towards wild comparative equivalences.

But most distressingly, Angels does NOT have a bibliography of any kind, just a few books mentioned in its acknowledgements (I investigated those but none mention Satanael in any great capacity). So, it’s impossible to verify where Godwin got his information, if he didn’t just make stuff up. I don’t make that accusation lightly, as the book contains many examples of far-out interpretations that have no basis in tradition.

For one, check out the final paragraph of the above two-page spread on Lucifer for some classic conflation of Hell with the Norse Hel(heim) and a seemingly earnest admission from the author that Helheim is a real place (at least a cave where Norse rituals took place--where is he getting this information???). So basically, this is not a book you want to read for facts, much less one you want to rely on for accurate portrayal of angels or demons.

But besides the profile this also explains other things like the Sinful Shell in P5 that is supposed to represent all 7 sins. But that move could have been called anything; most reading this probably know that P5′s Satanael was meant to be Lucifer and Arsene was originally Mephisto, along with Yaldabaoth being called Metatron in the game files. So that original progression was "minor devil figure --> major devil figure; rebels against the angel called ‘lesser YHWH.’“ It makes a lot of sense!

But considering how broadly Godwin attributes all manner of evil things to Satanael yet is still somehow the original Satan of Judaism/Christianity, switching Lucifer to Satanael was probably about as complex as this hypothetical exchange:

A: What’s another name for Lucifer?

B: Satanael?

A: Perfect!

By the information they had at hand, Satanael is essentially just another name for the general capital-D “Devil” they seemed to want for P5 all along but changed for whatever reason, probably a result of making the first tier personas thief-themed.

As for the Gnostic connections and this quote that is on the Megaten wiki and elsewhere:

In some Gnostic traditions, Satanael is said to be an angel that once served the Demiurge. He rebelled when he realized that the Demiurge was not the true God and granted humanity the knowledge to liberate themselves from the Demiurge.

I’ve never found any basis for this. It doesn’t seem like Atlus intended for this, either. And even in Angels, Satanael is the demiurge, not a rebel against it!

My guess it’s just fan speculation from misinterpreting sources and names; also fan expectations because the previous two Persona games had comprehensive mythological theming, so P5 must have it too, right? Atlus’ reply to that seems to be “not necessarily.” Even with Lucifer and Metatron removed, the point of P5′s persona arcs still seems to be angel rebelling against deity, even if the particulars of the conflict have no basis in an actual myth.

Finally, as for Soul Hackers’ Satanael, his role is so slight and appearance so brief he doesn’t seem like an aggrandized demiurgical being. A trio with Samyaza and Azazel, this appearance falls in line as a typical Watcher/fallen angel like from 2 Enoch rather than anything more.

What a confusing mess! This one is on Godwin, I have to say. At the time the research for Soul Hackers was happening, Angels would have still been a relatively new book. Atlus just doing their best with wild interpretations and misinformation.

[syubology]

Writing Dialogue

I know someone’s gonna hate me for this, but dialogue is actually hands down the easiest part of writing for me. I used to struggle a lot with it, then one day something clicked and now my scenes are quite literally built on the dialogue - my rough drafts look like screenplays lmao. So, I might be the worst person to attempt to give tips on this particular subject, but I will do my best!

🌙

Unique Voices:

Every character should have their own voice. It might sound impossible at first, but here are some factors to consider when designing a speech pattern:

Upbringing. This is where it all begins, really. The way we speak can certainly change over time, but a lot of habits are gonna be established earlier on in life. So, who raised your character? How did their parents/siblings speak? Who were their friends, and how could their speech patterns have had an influence on your character? Where did your character grow up? Is the area known for a specific dialect or strong accent?

Age and era. Not only should you consider your character’s age, but also the era in which they’re living. If you’re in your thirties and you’re writing about a teenager in 2020, your character is not going to speak exactly the same way you spoke when you were a teenager. If you’re 20 and writing about a 20-year-old in 1920, they’re not going to speak exactly as you speak now. Do your research!

Who are they speaking to? Regardless of whether or not they live in a society where there is a very strict hierarchy between social classes or age groups, your character is still likely to adjust their speech depending on who they’re speaking to. Boss, teachers, parents, siblings, lovers - your character will probably have a slightly different way of speaking to all of these people.

Multi-lingual. Was your character raised with more than one language? Is the language your character usually speaks their first language? Are they entirely fluent? What might trigger them to slip into their first language - anger, excitement, meeting a certain person, praying, counting? Do they often forget or confuse certain words in one language or another? You can have a lot of fun with multi-lingual characters, but if you weren’t raised with more than one language yourself, I’d do some research before writing a bilingual character!

Slang. Again, if you’re writing a character who belongs to a different era/age-group/nationality to you, do a little research. You’ll want to avoid using stereotypical slang and speech patterns - for example, not a single fucking Irish person has ever seriously said “top o’ the mornin’ to ye”. Each person usually has a specific set of slang terms and expletives they favour.

I’m not a linguist, these are just some of the things I consider when deciding how a character might speak. Not all voices are 100% unique, so don’t stress yourself out too much. The way we speak is the sum of hundreds of different influences, many of which we share with others. The idea is just to keep these factors in mind and implement small changes here and there to make sure your characters’ voices stand out from each other.

Break it up!

No to big chunks of solid dialogue - it’s boring. Even if your character is going off on a long monologue, you should break it up with motion and description. Imagine you’re watching a play and the actor just stands there, stock still, emotionless, reciting these lines - no one wants to see that and no one wants to read it either, my fren. Below is the best example I could find in my recent writing of a monologue broken up with motion and description:

Only one character speaks for this whole thing, but even if it was a conversation, I’d weave those other details in through it in much the same way. As much as you can, try to drop in subtle reminders of the character’s surroundings and feelings and the reactions of whoever they’re speaking to. This keeps the reader in the scene.

Rehearse:

You might feel like a crazy person muttering random lines of dialogue under your breath, but saying things aloud can help you figure out if it sounds nice and natural or stilted and weird. We can’t all be Oscar-winners, I know, but for best results, you should try to channel your character and their emotions when you do it. Personally, when I’m in bed before I fall asleep, I play scenes through in my head like a film and that’s my kinda way of ‘rehearsing’ them.

Listen:

A lot of people have trouble actually constructing dialogue. You sit down to write and it’s like you’ve never had a conversation before in your goddamn life, I know the feeling. The first thing you need to do is stop putting so much pressure on yourself. Just like you can’t force conversation in real life without it getting awkward, I think it’s the same in writing. Relax, step back from the keyboard, shut your eyes and try to imagine the scene as if you’re watching a film - what are they saying? 

If that fails, watch a film or an episode of something, listen to the actors. Read a novel and focus on the dialogue, how it’s constructed. When you’re out and about, listen to conversations going on around you, take notes of anything you find funny or interesting, anything that inspires a bit of dialogue for your story. Listening in this way is also a good exercise for studying other people’s speech patterns - think about how they’re unique and what the way they speak can tell you about them.

Practice:

I think this will be a point in most of my posts because it’s just so vital when it comes to all aspects of writing. Dialogue isn’t just a skill, it’s an entire group of skills. Within it, there’s humorous dialogue, flirtatious dialogue, arguments, etc. - the list goes on. They’re all a little different and present unique challenges, and you will be better at some aspects of dialogue than you are at others, so don’t get stuck in an I suck at dialogue rut, that’s not sexy at all.

Here’s a diverse list of dialogue prompts. To practice and challenge yourself, you could try building a conversation around each one or just a few. To start with, you could try writing only the lines of dialogue; when you feel more confident, start weaving in tone, setting, motion, etc.

✧･ﾟ: * :･ﾟ✧*

For me, the dialogue is the first thing I get. Before a scene has even begun to really take form, I have all these snippets of dialogue in my head, but then I often struggle with filling the gaps to make it a readable scene, you know? Every writer has different strengths. Dialogue may seem tricky at first, but you’ve been having conversations you whole life, pal, you know how to do it. The real trouble lies in finding your characters’ voices and figuring out how they’d interact with each other - once you’ve done that, the dialogue will come much easier for the rest of your story.

Sorry for the long gap between posts this time! I have a lot going on right now, but I love writing for this blog, it makes me feel like I know things, so thank you for all your support so far! Especially those who sent in asks - keep ’em coming! If I don’t reply, it’s because I plan to make a post on the topic, so don’t worry, I’m not ignoring anyone.

Thanks for reading, frens, I hope you’re all having a good day <3

[lostinanimage]

Do you mind me asking about your writing process? How do you get into the midst of the characters so well? I'm just asking because I really love your writing.

I don’t mind at all, but this might get long. (Spoiler alert: It got very very long. No one is ever going to ask me this again.)

I do have a very different process when starting something that’s fanfiction as opposed to something that is mostly or entirely original characters. (My checkplease fiction is somewhere in the middle but more toward the original fiction process because it’s almost entirely original characters.) I’m going to go with my fanfiction process because I’ve been posting 911:Lone Star mostly, but if you want more about my original stuff, let me know. I’m not sure which fandom you’re from. <3

First off, my fanfiction ideas usually come from gaps in the show or a changing something (like Carlos’s job) and blending from there. Because 911: Lone Star tried to cram so much into 10 episodes with way too many characters and emergencies on top of that, they *expected* viewers to mentally fill in some blanks. (Though they may explain those blanks later, it’s still something that’s expected at the time.) Filling in these blanks is what tends to inspire me to start writing fanfiction. (Which is why my checkplease stuff is mostly OCs. I like Jack and Bitty, but we knew so much of their story already. Telling Kent’s story gave me more space. Playing with how Jack dealt with switching teams gave me material for him.) For Lone Star (and some for 911), I honestly feel like I have a huge advantage when it comes to writing these characters. For Carlos (and Eddie), I’m a Mexican queer person from Texas. (For Eddie I did a big move away from my family—to California at one point even.) For TK, I have recovered from an overdose and I have mental health issues. I was relocated because of these things. I’ve lived in Florida (Majan) and Chicago (Paul) and I’ve spent so much time in NYC that I have 3 exes in the city. Someone from my Lone Star fic recently decided to read my checkplease fic as original fiction and quickly discovered that Lone Star is basically just a show made up of tropes and characters I like to write anyway. I also have friend who developed schizophrenia in his early thirties. (Sadly, he was a black man in the south so he was killed the way many black men with mental illnesses in the south are killed.) I still do lots of research, but definitely not as much as I would have to do without all these things. That said, I’ve watched so many parts of the episodes over and over again. Except for the failed dinner scene—which is hard for me to watch, I’ve probably watched every single Tarlos scene over 20 times to pick apart the way they look and move and interact with each other. It gives me a base to grow from. I’ve probably watched the entire series in full (muting that dinner scene lol) over ten times. For the My Salvation series and Tunnel Vision, I’d usually pull up the episode in the time I’m covering and at least watch pieces of it to remind myself what all the characters were doing. This also helps refresh me so that their voices stay in character. When switching between 911 and 911:Lone Star, I’d put on any random episode for at least a little bit to make sure I was back in the right mindset and not, for example, writing Bobby with Owen’s voice. The only character I don’t have to do this with is Judd. I lived in Texas for 18 years. I can write Judd’s voice immediately with no refresher. Jim Parrack (actor who plays Judd) grew up an hour from me and is only 2 years older than me. I’ve literally attended an event at the school where he went to high school while in high school at the same time. Thanks for hiring an actual Texan, Lone Star. Never met him as far as I know, but I grew up with people talking like that. I’ve been to Austin multiple times. I think one of the easy traps to fall into is misusing the advice to “write what you know.” Lone Star for me is a very good example for that because I just outlined how much I know about the facts surrounding these characters. But my actual personality and life history is not like any one of them. I’m divorced, but I don’t think Owen reacts to his divorce like I would. I’ve overdosed, so I was able to know how TK would feel physically, but I’m not like TK so it writing that meant asking “okay, how does *TK* react to this physical feeling. I’m a queer Mexican from Texas, but my personality is almost nothing like Carlos’s, so I can put in facts from my background, but I have ask how Carlos reacts to those things because he’s not going to react the same why I do.

Also, because it’s been a hot topic lately, don’t write what you don’t know. If you’re not Mexican-American and you can’t develop this very complex knowledge for how your use of Spanish changes according to your life situation, so don’t try to write it in. No one will miss it. I love writing Paul, but there’s a limit to what I can write about him being trans and black. That’s okay. I just won’t write him as well as a black trans man, but I might write Carlos and Eddie better than that person. And seriously, don’t write Judd and Grace with a Texas accent if you have no experience. People will only notice if you get it wrong. Still do a lot of research so that you have some ideas in your head! And then don’t actually try to use it. I know that sounds like super-weird advice, but if you’re writing a different culture, that’s my best advice. There are so many traits that make up each character. For example, I can put in aspects of my background when I’m writing Eddie, but I’ve never personally served in the military, so I don’t highlight that part of his character. Also, since I’m here, people who have never done sex work should stop writing it and stop using imagery around it when writing sex scenes. It’s annoying and almost always wrong. Stop. I don’t outline and I make almost no notes until I get to the point of a verse being so big, that I have to make a timeline to keep everyone’s ages in line. I’m not there yet for my Lone Star fic. All kinds of notes and character things do just kind of stay in my head. It’s hard to explain, but that’s how it is. I write almost entirely chronologically. To be fair, I started writing fanfiction at age 14, I graduated with a degree in creative writing. I published my first book in 2009. I’ve always done this many things in my head. My characters were likely not always this well-formed. However, a lot of the character work I do in my head can totally be written down. If you’d like, you’re welcome to pick a character and I’ll write out a full character sheet with what’s going on in my head that influences how I write a character. (For any of my OCs, I could do this. For 911/Lone Star, I could do Eddie, Buck, TK, Owen, Carlos, and Judd the easiest.) One of the things I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about while writing Tunnel Vision is exploring what my different back story would change about Carlos. He’s purposely less closed off because in my opinion he learned to shut off emotion even more as a cop. I think this is evident in the show not just in the police station scene, but also in the finale when TK sort of ends the relationship. There’s no way he’s that okay with it, but you can see that he’s prepared himself for that response. (As opposed to the dinner scene where you see more emotion because he wasn’t prepared for that rejection.) As a teacher, I feel like he’d be a bit more open and better at communication, so I’ve made those little changes. That said, I think it’s obvious that dialogue is my jam. This is why I have to stay so, so far ahead of posting to be able to edit my own stuff. I write quickly and I leave out words and my brain will correct mistakes unless I step away from a section for at least two weeks. I also envision things so clearly in my head that I need that time away to realize when I need more description or when I need to use names instead of pronouns, etc. Sometimes I’ll add dialogue in editing but usually nothing major. One of my favorite things about writing fanfiction is that I can put out all kinds of extra scenes and points of view. I actually have some of these things for my published works just sitting in extra files because I’ve needed to write other points of few to get the reactions right. Anytime I write half a phone call, I always have the other side written somewhere. Anyway, wow this got really long so I’m going to stop rambling. Clearly I don’t mind asks like this is. Lol. I’m still almost completely quarantined and my girlfriend is out of town. Send me all the asks you want. lol

[nightqueendany]

The Original Final Season 7 - Preface

Okay guys. I’m still polishing up some of the later episodes, but this whole thing is almost done. And as motivation to make me finish the later episodes and publish them, I’m going to give you Episode 1 today, in a post directly following this one. If you do not see the link just yet, simply refresh this post and I should have put it in place, pending no issues with my Internet connection.

I’ve talked about this A LOT. What follows below and in subsequent weeks (I’m going to make you guys suffer, I’m going to put each episode out weekly) is 1) my explanation for WHY specifically I believe there was an “Original Final Season 7” and also, 2) WHAT I believe that Final Season contained.

NOTE: I will refer to the actual show events of Seasons 7 and 8 as “show canon” and will refer to my speculation as “Original Final Season 7.”

*Disclaimer because I have this weird feeling I’m going to get bombarded with anons asking me for links to “the original scripts” or interviews where this is all mentioned or something:

THIS IS ALL MY OWN SPECULATION. NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN TRUE. THERE ARE NO “ORIGINAL SCRIPTS” FOR A FINAL SEASON 7...THAT I KNOW OF.

Alright, now that that’s taken care of, I’m gonna lay this out here for you guys. (Parts of this may get fanficky but whatever, this is what makes the most sense in my mind based on what we’ve got on the table).

(Also note, this series will be really really fucking long because it includes what I *think* the original Season was, and evidence from aired episodes as to why I think that, along with long-winded, detailed descriptions of scenes, etc. Sorry not sorry)

Here is how I went about this speculation to determine what I believe was likely the “Original Final Season 7”:

1) I looked for instances in the series as a whole where plots were never finished OR scenes/lines were either retconned or never paid off  - i.e. Dany’s S2 throne room scene script clearly saying “snow” and in 8x06 it’s now ash - post Emmy script release note: the script may say “snow” but remember, it’s the same day as the attack on the city from 8x05 when it was sunny and super hot outside. Either the script was changed just to make it say “snow” OR it was snow in the 8x06 episode, but D&D literally changed the fucking weather just to make it snowing in Dany’s throne room scene when King’s Landing hasn’t had snow since 7x07. Either way, something was retconned and it’s fucking idiotic and hella obvious.

2) I examined Seasons 7&8 specifically for the same things - scenes/lines never paid off or left unfinished/unexplained, i.e. Yara’s line “somewhere the dead can’t go” when this was never needed because the Night King was defeated in one episode; also all the baby talk between Jon and Dany and Dany never being pregnant in show canon.

3) I looked for instances in the series where a plot was “undone” in a very short span of time. Meaning, something that could have taken seasons upon seasons for buildup but was scrapped or easily deconstructed an episode later or same episode - i.e. Jaime/Brienne finally getting together in 8x04 and Jaime leaving Brienne that same episode; also Theon rescuing Yara from Euron’s ship very easily in 8x01 when she was a captive for most of Season 7.

4) And lastly, I looked for things that have been said/mentioned either in show canon or by cast/staff that ignores something previous that is a contradiction of their words - i.e. Jon pledging to Dany in 7x06 after she already said she would help him and Jon in 8x01 saying he gave up his crown so Dany would come help OR Dan Weiss saying in 7x05 that Dany isn’t mad and isn’t her father and then in S8 naming Dany the “Mad Queen”.

There are many of these instances in the series so it wasn’t hard to map out a rough outline of what I believe the “Original Final Season 7” was.

So, why do I even think there even was an original, final Season 7 outline/possibly even an entire Season of script? Why do I think this a likely possibility rather than me just being a delusional Dany Stan who wanted a different ending for my fave?

Back as early as 2013, after season 3 ended, the number 7 was being thrown around. Seven seasons to finish the series.

[Producer Frank] Doelger said: “[The number of series (seasons)] is being discussed as we speak. The third season was the first half of book three, season four will be the second part of book three. George RR Martin has written books four and five; six and seven are pending....I would hope that, if we all survive, and if the audience stays with us we’ll probably get through to seven seasons.”

Keep in mind, at this same time, D&D had also JUST had their meeting with George about the series endpoints.

“Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him [Martin] and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be. If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.”

Vanity Fair, March 24th, 2014 (LAST year being spring 2013)

So this meeting on the series conclusion took place right when D&D were just polishing up the scripts for Season 4, before filming began that summer). A year after their meeting with George, (the same 2014 Vanity Fair article), D&D apparently played with the idea of an eighth season, but that could have just been the reporter’s speculation.

In other interviews, they were fairly adamant about 7 being the “magic number.” And back in the very beginning when Dave and Dan first started Thrones, they always said they imagined the series taking 70-75 hours to tell the story - so again, the equivalent of 70 episodes or a normal full 7 Seasons of 10 episodes each).

With the major complaint from both last season and season 8 being that it felt “rushed” however, people may wonder how the hell the series was supposed to conclude after Season 6. However, when you think about it, Season 7 being the final season doesn’t seem that odd if it were originally going to be a regular 10 episode arc. The final two seasons only totaled 13 episodes anyway, so really, it’s just three fewer episodes than in the version that we got. And if some episodes in the final Season 7 were over an hour long, the series as a whole would easily reach that 70-75 hours D&D always talked about.

So, what was the original 10 episode final Season 7 supposed to look like?

Season 7 Episode 1: ?

Season 7 Episode 2: ?

Season 7 Episode 3: ?

Season 7 Episode 4: ?

Season 7 Episode 5: ?

Season 7 Episode 6: ?

Season 7 Episode 7: ?

Season 7 Episode 8: ?

Season 7 Episode 9: ?

Season 7 Episode 10: ?

To figure out the outline of the 10 Episode Final Season, let’s start near the end.

ONE FINAL BATTLE

Author George R.R. Martin, whose series of novels forms the basis for Thrones, had revealed to the duo the broad strokes of how his Song of Ice and Fire saga secretly ends, including a description of an epic FINAL BATTLE that’s been teased from the show’s VERY FIRST SCENE. But this climactic confrontation was miles out of reach for a series that cost about $5 million per episode. “We have a very generous budget from HBO, but we know what’s coming down the line and, ultimately, it’s not generous enough,” Benioff said.

EW

When Entertainment Weekly interviewed D&D back during the filming of Season 3, D&D made it sound like George had planned only ONE final battle - the battle between the living and the dead. Not two battles, one with the living against the dead and another later battle with the living against the living. Just ONE.

(Also should note, this says the FINAL BATTLE was teased from the show’s FIRST scene, which contained the White Walkers but not Daenerys. Daenerys didn’t even appear in the episode until sometime much later meaning the “epic final battle” was about the White Walkers, not Dany burning down King’s Landing as we got in show canon).

Both the books and the show begin by showing the audience the threat beyond the Wall. This is the main threat. This is the main event. The Game of Thrones doesn’t matter and is a distraction for both the audience and the characters. In GRRM’s original outline, he explicitly says that the greatest threat to the realm of Westeros is the Others and that there will be one final battle.

So this was our original “Episode 9”. Literally and figuratively. Episode 9 is always supposed to be the episode where the craziest thing happens in the entire season - Ned’s death, Battle of Blackwater, Red Wedding, Battle at Castle Black, Dany flying away on Drogon from the fighting pits of Meereen, Battle of the Bastards.

The only exception to this could be argued to be Season 5 as Jon Snow is killed in Episode 10, not episode 9. However, the change in structure of the season was probably the biggest clue to the audience that Jon wasn’t going to stay dead, as they had never ended a season on a cliffhanger of the death of a major character. We’ve always been given one more episode afterward to process said character’s death.

If Jon were going to die and stay dead, he would have died in Season 5 Episode 9, because of this pattern: Season 1 Episode 9 - Stark death (Ned). Season 2 Episode 9 - Battle (Blackwater). Season 3 Episode 9 - Stark death (Robb). Season 4 Episode 9 - Battle (Castle Black). Season 5 Episode 9 - no Stark death (where there should have been - and a Battle was in Episode 8 - Hardhome). Season 6 Episode 9 makes up for the flaw in the pattern where we get a Battle and a Stark death (Rickon).

Ergo, based on George’s original outline, D&D’s previous statements about George’s plan, and the pattern, 7x09 was the original Battle for the Dawn. So that’s what I’ll call this episode.

Season 7 Episode 1: ?

Season 7 Episode 2: ?

Season 7 Episode 3: ?

Season 7 Episode 4: ?

Season 7 Episode 5: ?

Season 7 Episode 6: ?

Season 7 Episode 7: ?

Season 7 Episode 8: ?

Season 7 Episode 9: The Battle For The Dawn

Season 7 Episode 10: ?

I don’t want to give the entire season away just yet, as I’ll be posting each episode in full detail, but I will fill in one more “event” from the outline above.

In the 7x06 Inside the Episode, David Benioff said something that I’ve always found very interesting.

“The whole path of the show, in some way, had been trying to map out all the episode endpoints and with this one, it was the dragon opening its blue eye. And realizing that the Night King has finally gotten his own weapon of mass destruction.”

This statement really made me think because a) it tells us how D&D planned the series - mapping everything out by episode endpoints. And b) Benioff doesn’t say “the ending of the penultimate episode of Season 7.” He just says, “this one.” So this tells me, if anything, D&D had always planned to kill Viserion and have the Night King raise him as his mount. BUT it also tells me this was always meant to happen in 7x06, regardless of when Season 7 ended….either at an Episode 7 or an Episode 10.

Season 7 Episode 1: ?

Season 7 Episode 2: ?

Season 7 Episode 3: ?

Season 7 Episode 4: ?

Season 7 Episode 5: ?

Season 7 Episode 6: ends with Wight!Viserion opening his blue eye

Season 7 Episode 7: ?

Season 7 Episode 8: ?

Season 7 Episode 9: The Battle For The Dawn

Season 7 Episode 10: ?

So what does each episode of the “Original Final Season 7″ look like? The following posts will be my rendering of a final, ten-episode Season 7 with explanations as to why certain events happen and why they’re likely based on the show canon, Seasons 7 and 8.

Without further adieu, here is what I believe to be the Original Final Season 7:

(Links to come weekly as I post each Episode, if link does not work immediately, just refresh a few times until it does. Two episodes today as Episode 1 is very short and familiar, Episode 3 next Tuesday!)

Original Final Season 7: Preface Post (Current Episode)

Season 7 Episode 1: Family, Duty, Honor

Season 7 Episode 2: Greywater Watch

Season 7 Episode 3: The Last of the Dragons

Season 7 Episode 4: Dragonglass

Season 7 Episode 5: The Storm

Season 7 Episode 6: Summerhall 

Season 7 Episode 7: A City Fit For A King

Season 7 Episode 8: Protectors of the Realm

Season 7 Episode 9: The Battle For The Dawn

Season 7 Episode 10: ?

[thepucegoose]

Starsky is Canonically Jewish - A Moodboard & Analysis

A detailed exploration of all the Many Many aspects in the canon that point to Starsky being Jewish can be seen under the cut + bonus headcanons! 

So I was looking at Starsky’s fanlore page and the discussion there talks about hints within the canon that Starsky may be Jewish. As one commentator notes, “There is plenty of mild justification for Starsky being Jewish”. Tbh, I’d say that, whilst subtle and never explicitly addressed, there is far more than just mild justification to suggest that Starsky is Jewish, and that he is in fact canonically so (and also I found the menorah they were talking about and I felt like I was on Myth-busters, which I’ve never seen but I imagine they mainly investigate fandom hearsay regarding background menorahs and other such suggestions. I’m insanely proud for having found it please appreciate because it took me a Very long time to, although I’ve found in researching this that there was at least one screenshot of it online here from 2011 :D). 

TV Tropes has Starsky down for the Ambiguously Jewish trope and whilst I definitely agree that Starsky fits this trope description, I would say that there really is nothing ambiguous about it. There are just so so many aspects that come together. This boy is just canonically Jewish! 

(Disclaimer: I’m not Jewish. Although I am very much considering converting and I’ve been studying everything I can about Judaism for well well over a year or so now, as well as attending services through whatever means I’ve been able to, I am by No Means even remotely close to being knowledgeable on the topic. Still, I figured there were some things I’d noticed whilst watching that hadn’t been mentioned that I wanted to bring up, and I also wanted to pull together observations by others into one place because I’m always hyped for canon representation and creating coherent resources. Extensive Research Is My Jam. If I’ve got anything wrong; said something in an uncomfortable way; talked where it wasn’t my place to talk; made assumptions I shouldn’t have; or like, said/done literally anything else that feels even slightly off then Please Please say and I’ll do everything I can to sort it!!)

Reasons why I reckon Starsky is canonically Jewish: 

For one, Paul Michael Glaser is Jewish and if William Shatner being Jewish is good enough for my Jewish!Kirk headcanons then it’s sure as heck good enough for my Jewish!Starksy headcanons. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, both Leonard Goldberg and Aaron Spelling are Jewish, and a good many of the writers have Jewish surnames too, though I can’t find out much about them specifically. Due to their fame, and therefore extended biographies, Wikipedia does specify that writers Michael Mann, and Fred Freiberger are Jewish. Joe Naar, who produced the show, was also Jewish, and used to joke that his style “was born out of being a short Jew with a huge chip on his shoulder.” Rick Edelstein was hugely involved in the writing of the later series and you can really see the influence Judaism has on his work, as is evident in his more recent short story, Bodega. He also ended his short video supporting Obama in '08 with "l'chaim, to life".

Essentially, I think Jewish people were involved in all levels of production within the show - from the writing, to the acting, to the direction, to the production - and this can be seen in the varied means by which it’s suggested that Starsky is Jewish himself. As such, suggestions that may have been seen as accidental otherwise can then take on greater significance, whilst the more explicit examples take on more emotional weight. 

Why, then, would it not be more explicitly stated that Starsky is, and was always considered to be, Jewish? I read a really interesting post the other day about how Jewish people in Hollywood often felt unable to include Jewish characters/actors/themes in their work out of fear of seeming too “tribalistic, or insular, or that Hollywood was (as it was in the antisemitic imagination) a ‘Jewish’ front”. Obviously, I can’t comment from a Jewish perspective, but when I was younger I felt similar pressure in regards to including queer characters. As such, I think it’s really exciting to see the very explicit references to Starsky being Jewish, even if they aren’t clearly obvious to a wider audience not actively looking for such references.

Paul Michael Glaser also played Perchik in Fiddler on the Roof (1971) - which I mention not only because it shows Glaser playing other Jewish roles, but also as a recommendation because I Love My Hyped Wee Jewish Communist Revolutionary Boy. Glaser talked about how Starsky was a culmination of other characters he’d played prior to Starsky (DVD extras) and I think this is quite evident in Starsky and Perchik’s respective behaviours. As a nod to this, the middle top picture is (apparently) from a Jewish Labour Bund publication. This is something you can learn more about on its Wikipedia article here, and there’s more interesting things about The Bund here and here as well!

As we all know, Starsky calls Hutch the Blond Blintz (to his Puce Goose) :D Here’s a recipe for blintzes from myjewishlearning.com - they’re like pancakes and it’s an Ashkenazim custom to eat them on Shavuot. Also I love the scene in The Set-Up: part 1 where he first calls Hutch the Blond Blintz and Hutch is like???? and Starsky just says Blintz very definitively and with no further explanation and Hutch is just like,,, u kno what,, I’m just going to roll with this.) 

I basically just really love this because it’s an example of Starsky being very openly and explicitly involved in Jewish culture, not just when he says it in The Set-Up, but also in Starsky’s Lady, when playing with the kids, especially as there aren’t a lot of references to things that carry on across multiple episodes.

I also like the way he pulls everyone else into his reference of it very un-apologetically; it feels very in character. There’s a picture of a blintz in the left column of the middle row! (Also, I feel like,,,, there might be some,,,, Freudian Implications to naming your partner after a rolled pancake filled with cream cheese that gets released when eaten?? @jimmyandthegiraffes fite me.)

Whilst Hutch looks at a glow in the dark cross being sold by Huggy in Jojo (written by Mann), Starsky picks up a mezuzah, which are put up at gateposts and door frames in Jewish homes - here’s a video about it :D The picture in the left-most bottom corner is Starsky inspecting this mezuzah. I really like this scene because he goes straight to it and seems to be considering it with very real interest. This is interestingly contrasted with Hutch picking up the cross, which isn’t the only time the show appears to draw a distinction between their respective cultural and religious heritages. 

I think that really responds to some of the stuff William Blinn has said about their casting and how thrilled they were to have two actors playing characters from such different backgrounds whilst having such great chemistry, and how that really helps form the magic of the show even (DVD extras). I think their respective choices really help to demonstrate how assumed it was that Starsky Would naturally pick up a mezuzah, in contrast to Hutch’s cross. 

The menorah (or actually Chanukkiah if we’re going to be really specific about it) in the background of Starsky’s apartment in Foxy Lady and in Blindfold. For so long I thought this was a myth but!! it’s not!!!! You can see it in the right hand column, middle row :D With the greatest thanks to the canon compendium for pointing out the episodes it appears in and also for like, literally everything else - it’s genuinely just the best fandom resource I’ve seen. I love this because I think, asides from a Magen David (Star of David), I think a menorah is one of the most well known symbols of Judaism and I think it’s really rad that it’s something the crew thought consciously to include, even if it is a largely not shown background detail. Again, it’s subtle but explicit which is why I would argue that Starsky is canonically Jewish.

It’s also worth remembering that even though it’s in an area in his apartment that doesn’t get shot by the cameras except on a few occasions, it Is a part of the apartment that’s Really visible from like, every direction and is right across from the front door. I’ve got another screenshot below from Blindfold that puts it more in context of where it is. I think this is really cool!! It’s obviously something he considers a big enough part of his life to keep on display year round and it’s something instantly recognisable and visible for anyone coming into his house (Foxy Lady came out on March 1st and Blindfold on October 21st, neither of which are around Chanukkah, if you’re going by episode air dates).

Speaking of the Magen David :D As can be seen in the episode Little Girl Lost, Starsky has a couple of blue six pointed stars on his dash under his Christmas decoration, as you can see in the top left hand corner of the mood board. I think this is really cool because Starsky is obviously very hyped for Christmas in this episode, hanging reindeer from his mirror and singing Christmas songs and being really hyped for presents, and this could be used to suggest that Oh No He Can’t Be Jewish He Likes Christmas, but not only does he only engage in secularised aspects of Christmas (in contrast to the nativity scene at Kiko’s house), there’s the very conscious inclusion of these stars. All the scenes in the car are set during Chanukkah, which ran from 16-24th December in 1976, and the stars are blue, which, along with white or silver, is often used for Chanukkah decorations and is traditionally associated with Judaism. Basically this remains in keeping with the subtle yet very conscious inclusion of Jewish symbolism, easily missed by those not thinking to look for it. 

Also I know heaps of Jewish people that enjoy the secular aspects of Christmas, particularly if the holiday has meaning for their friends. In Starsky’s case this might be more because he wants to annoy Hutch and he likes bickering or perhaps because he’s upset by Hutch’s increasing cynicism and wants Hutch to feel happier. Or because he wants a new caboose for his train set. Probably that.

In the bottom left hand corner you’ll see a picture of Paul Muni, born   Frederich Meshilem Meier Weisenfreund, Meshilem being his Hebrew name. I just like that Hutch suggests Starsky’s mother called him Rudolph Valentino and Starsky corrects him saying she “said I was more of the Paul Muni type”, suggesting the actor she compared him to was actually a notably Jewish one (Paul Muni references can be found in Lady Blue, as written by Mann, and Silence). Again, I think the contrast between Hutch suggesting a gentile actor, and Starsky raising a Jewish one instead is interesting, as well as highlighting Starsky’s mother’s engagement with, and perhaps predisposition towards, Jewish culture.

On it’s own this is perhaps more of a curiosity, maybe too much opportunity for coincidence to really warrant too much attention, but Dobey also chooses a Jewish comparison in The Velvet Jungle when he says, “who do you think you are, Starsky, Milton Berle?” So here we have two instances wherein the comparisons drawn with Starsky are with other Jewish personalities.

In Terror On The Docks (written by Freiberger), Huggy apologises for not bringing an ill Starsky chicken soup, instead bringing mustard green broth which, “where I come from is just as effective”. This might not have much significance in and of itself, except that literally just 2 episodes later, in Shootout, Sammy Grovner makes a joke about chicken soup being Jewish penicillin. In addition, Huggy’s reference to his own culture’s cure-all suggests that chicken soup would have been the culturally appropriate first-choice for Starsky. As such, I’ve included a picture of matzo-ball chicken soup in the top left hand corner. 

Also, in The Game, Hutch says in regards to their soup related upbringings that, “we obviously had different mothers” and Starsky says, “yeah, mine was chicken soup, yours was,, clam chowder”, which isn’t really that important except that the show likes to highlight their different cultural upbringings and once again they’re doing so by referencing something that is widely culturally understood to be Jewish, having already explicitly stated it within the show to be so. (I could write a whole dissertation about cultural soup references in Starsky and Hutch, but I’m not going to. Just note that there are a weird amount of them.)

We see in Running that Starsky calls his mother every Friday evening. I think this is really interesting because, if they were both observant orthodox, they wouldn’t be using electricity on Shabbat. I mean, duh, Starsky is Not observantly orthodox but this scene shows that neither is his mother. Any yet, the time they’ve picked to talk each week is on Friday evenings, when many Jewish families come together for Shabbat dinner. As such, I think this shows how Starsky’s Judaism holds a place within his life and his routines, as well as suggesting what tradition he may have been brought up in. I personally headcanon conservative, but Reform works too!

As the fanlore page says, “Starsky looked stunned when Nancy's mother asked him if he were Catholic in 'Terror on the Docks,' to which he replied he was not.” This scene is a really interesting one to watch for this (and, again, was written by Freiberger), and whilst this merely shows that he’s not Catholic, his confusion and bafflement suggests just how surprising this question is to him, and his discomfort is evident as he laughs awkwardly. I think this is an experience many minorities can attest to, and he’s feeling the unease that comes when you’re put under pressure to reveal a part of your identity that may well be not received well. 

In terms of the canon, I think the way in which this is played is so in line with the concept that Starsky is Jewish that it really suggests that this was something in clearly in mind in regards to his characterisation, at least by a number of the people working on the show. 

In terms of headcanons, I like Starsky’s bewilderment here because it seems like he straight up just thought it was obvious that he was Jewish, and so it offers an in-universe explanation for why he never says “I’m Jewish”, rather than the external explanation regarding the fears surrounding creating explicitly clear Jewish characters in the 1970s. 

It is interesting, in universe, that he doesn’t then say, “No, Mrs. Blake, I’m afraid I’m Jewish”, but I think this shows Starsky’s reticence to talk about his background with strangers, despite his comfort proudly talking about blintzes with Hutch and Terry. This is frankly just understandable, given the existence of antisemitism and Mrs Blake’s evangelical Catholicism, and again offers another explanation for why he never says I’m Jewish, wherein everyone he feels comfortable knowing already know, so there’s no need for him to say that. 

(This said, @jimmyandthegiraffes and I headcanon that he just explains everything he doesn’t know with the fact he’s Jewish, even when it’s totally unrelated, *queue Starsky’s sage voice* “Ah see, I wouldn’t know whether those out of date eggs are safe to eat because I’m Jewish.” - Hutch is going to throw something. Also saying he can’t eat something healthy Hutch has made because it’s not kosher, whilst eating something obviously treif, which I made a post about here.)

We also see Starsky’s reticence to talk about his background with antagonistic strangers/suspects in The Committee, “Starsky? What is it, Polish?” “Something like that.” And yet, in Starsky And Hutch Are Guilty we see Starsky talk with Sharon, with whom he obviously feels comfortable with, about his home cooked goulash, “My mother gave me a recipe straight from the old country.” Again, this shows an in universe explanation for why we never see Starsky talk about his background explicitly, as those who he feels comfortable knowing already know.

This line is also interesting as it suggests information about Starsky’s heritage that pretty clearly implies a family with an immigrant background;  this again would be in line with the experience of many Jewish people in the US, particularly when considering Starsky’s roots in New York as many families settled there fleeing pogroms and persecution. I headcanon that Starsky’s father was killed just after his 13th birthday (and his Bar Mitzvah) and moved to Bay City the summer after (this is taking Glaser’s birthday as Starsky’s for consistency).

This would mean Starsky lived in New York 1943-1956. The Jewish population of New York was at its peak in 1950 at 2 million. Still today, New York City is the largest community of Jews in the world within a city proper, including Tel Aviv. I think it perhaps goes without saying that this was and is particularly true in Brooklyn. I’ve seen lots of fics argue about where about in New York Starsky is from (with one claiming New Jersey which was pretty left field). The closest connection to New York that I have is that I grew up on the outskirts of the city it was named after. If you ever want to visit York, it has a lot of chocolate museums and a nice Gothic cathedral and a bad connection with Jewish history. I’m on a tangent. My point is, although I can figure Yorkshire accents, I’m not especially good at figuring out the nuances of New York accents so I leave it up to you lot, and on the whole people tend to suggest that he has a Brooklyn accent. We also know he has swum at Coney Island, and that the sea there tastes better than on the playboy island (Murder on Voodoo Island: part 2).

What we do know is that Starsky grew up on 84th Street (Targets Without A Badge: part 2) although there do seem to be a Lot of 84th streets in New York. We also know that if we are agreeing on Brooklyn then 84th street runs through Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, and Bensonhurt. I figure Bensonhurst works best because, even though it’s a very Italian neighbourhood now, until the 50s it was a Jewish/Italian neighbourhood, which works with Starsky’s grandmother’s flat above the Italian restaurant (Shootout). It also works with the implications surrounding Starsky’s family and the mob (The Set-Up: part 1) as the Bath Avenue Crew operated in Bensonhurst. The mob thing is also interesting when considering Starsky’s Jewish heritage. There’s a painted Bensonhurst shop front in the bottom middle of the mood board which has been kept the same since the 1950s when Starsky could have been living there!

This has all been largely (or wholly) tangential, but essentially my point is that what we know of Starsky’s heritage chimes pretty neatly with the experience of many Jewish Americans, which again ties in with the argument that Starsky’s Judaism was something held in mind by those involved in the creation of the show. 

Another thing I found interesting was in an article I was reading about Paul Simon, born less than two years before Glaser. In regard to Simon, Donald Fagen says, “There’s a certain kind of New York Jew, [...] almost a stereotype, really, to whom music and baseball are very important. I think it has to do with the parents. The parents are either immigrants or first-generation Americans who felt like outsiders, and assimilation was the key thought — they gravitated to black music and baseball looking for an alternative culture.” Simon responded to say that this wasn't too far from the truth. Obviously, Starsky enjoying baseball does not at all mean anything about him being Jewish, but it does fit in with his Jewish New York upbringing, from his father taking him to see the Yankees and him collecting baseball cards (Vendetta), to his enthusiasm with Pete (Little Girl Lost). 

It is worth noting how this enthusiasm for baseball seems to be something that Starsky engages in far more than Hutch, which is interesting given Soul's history with the sport. (I feel like they definitely could have done more with the fact that David Soul was a good enough player to be offered a contract with the Chicago White Sox). Perhaps this wasn't pursued because a passion for baseball was thought to be more in line with Starsky's upbringing, versus Hutch's Sea Scouts. Again, this maybe suggests a certain narrative held in mind regarding Starsky’s background and how it influenced his characterisation.

Curiously, any Yiddish on the show is typically said by Hutch rather than by Starsky. In Vendetta, Hutch says to Artie Sorkin, “Fagin, faigeleh. What’s the differences? You’re vermin.” Faigeleh meaning homosexual. Also, as the canon compendium notes, “Hutch calls his houseplant ‘Meschugah Mantherlus.’” ‘Meschugah’ means crazy in Yiddish.  “‘Mantherlus’ doesn’t translate as anything but is probably an inside joke and supposed to sound Latin.” (Ballad for a Blue Lady, co-written by Glaser.) 

Largely I just found this interesting, but I did read a really cool study talking about the use of Yiddish in the American vernacular and one of its many findings was that gentiles with close Jewish friends were, unsurprisingly, more likely to use more Yiddish terminology. Also, unrelated but super fascinating, LGBT+ people were more likely to use Yiddish too.

On the Jewish immigrant experience, in Partners Starsky tries to get Hutch to play Pinochle with him, claiming "you love Pinochle", suggesting this is a game they frequently play together. Pinochle used to be a favourite card game of Jewish and Irish immigrants. I get that at this point I'm probably clasping at straws but I'm going for as comprehensive as possible, and I think it creates a good story about Starsky playing it with his family and later teaching it to Hutch.

It is interesting how Hutch is possibly shown to be engaging with Jewish culture in regard to both his use of Yiddish and his love of Pinochle. This may well be because Jewish culture permeates American society, after all it's Soul we see say the Yiddish "putz" in the bloopers. But it is slightly interesting that these were lines given to Hutch, perhaps for plot purposes, or because the writers were choosing to include their own culture and ways of speaking in a way that is safer through the evidently gentile Soul rather than the conspicuously Jewish Glaser. 

There are other instances of Judaism in Starsky and Hutch that aren’t necessarily pointing to Starsky being Jewish but that are notable. Huggy Bear and the Turkey starts with Starsky and Hutch undercover in Caplan Laundry, where Hutch seems to be undercover as an orthodox Jewish man (and Starsky his wife? Seemingly? They certainly uh, go for it in the bloopers). 

Caplan/Kaplan is a surname found in a number of cultures but it is a common Ashkenazim surname which also makes me headcanon Officer Minnie Kaplan as Jewish because we all want more Jewish headcanons in our lives and I think it puts her friendship with Starsky in an interesting context. (Marki Bey more like Marki Bae)

Again, it's Hutch we see taking on the more visibly Jewish role, although this does not go to negate Starsky's own Jewishness, as this may well be understood to be his influence on the friend he spends significantly more than 75% of his time with. Also, it can be assumed that Starsky is undercover as a Jewish woman as he appears to work at the launderette. 

Obviously A Body Worth Guarding is the episode that deals most with Judaism as the Jewish protesters are a central plot feature. It’s interesting that Starsky’s involvement with them is largely hostile, however, I think this is more to do with the circumstances. At first he believes they’ve hired muscle to hurt Anna so he goes in hard which means the Jewish Organisation for Action respond with a more hostile approach. And yet, he’s completely on-board with dropping the JOA lead and following the fascist one as a result of Kauffman’s logic that attacking Anna would only lead to more antisemitism, which despite being a sound argument had no actual evidence to support it. From this point Kauffman is still resistant to working with Starsky which means Starsky maybe is more heavy handed in his approach, but it is on order to get Kauffman to help him follow the fascist lead. Once the job has been done he seems a lot softer towards the JOA and genuinely thankful for their help.

Essentially, the episode is noteworthy but Starsky’s reaction to the JOA tells us not so much about his own personal beliefs and upbringing and more about how he approaches his job. I do think it interesting that he believes Kauffman’s logic and subsequently drops all suspicion of the JOA and instead trusts him enough to bring him in as help.

Also Huggy calls the JOA the “desert people” which might just be Huggy’s turn of phrase but I think it feels more comfortable if Starsky is Jewish as it’s more like banter between friends then.

In spite of all these very purposeful allusions and references to Starsky’s Judaism, in Savage Sunday he complains about having to work on a Sunday, the Christian sabbath instead of Judaism’s Shabbat. And yet, I don’t believe this undermines Starsky’s Jewish presentation as it seems that his complaints are more that he expects to have Sunday off because he is in a Christian society which usually allows him a break on a Sunday to which he can look forward to. When he’s complaining about working on a Saturday in Jojo (written by Mann), Hutch says, “Could be worse, could be Sunday”, to which Starsky replies, “Come on, Saturday’s bad enough”, bemoaning all the sports that he could be watching instead. 

This is interesting too as you could easily use this to headcanon him using sport as an excuse to express his frustrations at having to work on Shabbat, especially as it’s Hutch who says, “Could be worse, could be Sunday.”

Note: It was mentioned on the fanlore page that Huggy gives Starsky a wreath of garlic ‘for those of other persuasions’, but, as far as I can tell, the garlic is to ward off vampires of “all the rest of the denominations” when the cross for “any vampire of Christian persuasion” won’t be of help, rather than the garlic being for non-Christian vampire hunters. As always, I’m loving Huggy’s enterprising approach to religion, making sure he covers all bases, but it’s not really a suggestion that Starsky is Jewish, just that he needs to protect himself from non-Christian vampires.

In the same vein, Huggy does say “Shalom” to Starksy (and to Hutch) in Dandruff, though this seems to be more as an aspect of his undercover role as Prince Nairobi.

Essentially, Starsky is frequently presented as engaging with Jewish culture, practices, and traditions, often very visibly so. Aside from the very explicitly Jewish references, Starsky is very frequently characterised in a way that suggests his being Jewish was held in mind, on a writing level, an acting level, a direction level, and a production level. As I mentioned earlier, American society in imbued with Jewish culture and so many of these things may have been purely incidental. However, coupled with the more explicit examples of Starsky's Judaism they may be said to take on greater purpose and subsequent significance. Pretty much across the board, he is understood to be Jewish and whilst these references maybe subtle enough to pass by those not engaged with Judaism or considering it a possibility, this does not preclude Starsky’s Judaism from being a very knowing and explicit inclusion, and therefore canon.

Given all this, I have some headcanons about to what extent Starsky is practising! 

We canonically know he doesn’t keep kosher – I mean this boy eats linguine with clams. I have read a fic where Hutch is forbidden from telling Starsky’s ma that he eats bacon or meat with dairy and I really like this as a headcanon. I definitely think she Knows but she lets Starsky pretend he doesn’t because it keeps him happy.

We also know neither he nor his mother have qualms about not being shomer Shabbos, but as I mentioned earlier, we Do see them using Friday evenings as the time they choose to call one another.

We know he doesn’t wear a kippah on the regular, too. And he never says the Sh’ma out loud if he thinks he’s about to die, although I do think he probably says it to himself. Again, I think I’ve read a fic about that. As I reread the ones I have bookmarked I’ll add them in if I can find them.

Other than these examples, pretty much everything else as far as I can tell is fair game, particularly if you’re considering along the lines of Reform, or even conservative, depending on the community. I know a lot of Jewish people who would consider themselves to be actively practicing who don’t keep kosher or who work on a Saturday etc.

About that, as I mentioned above, we know he does sometimes work on a Saturday (and he complains about it). This suggests that he doesn’t necessarily frequent synagogue regularly, particularly as he was frustrated about missing the sport he likes to watch on a Saturday.

However, for one thing, this doesn’t mean he Never goes to temple, and for another, we do know that Starsky very likely celebrates Chanukkah, due to his Chanukkiah. Chanukkah is a relatively minor Jewish holiday and so if he celebrates this it’s likely he also celebrates other, more significant holidays, and high holy days. Maybe he doesn’t go to shul every week, but a synagogue on Yom Kippur is generally full of people who are not regular attenders.

Please imagine this boy trying to fast I bet Hutch would be glad as hell that Starsky isn’t at work lol.

Personally, I tend to headcanon that Starsky moves to greater observance post Sweet Revenge. I think the hospital rabbi is good at playing Pinochle and the two become friends and they have good philosophical debates and Hutch joins in and after Starsky is discharged they want to see the rabbi so they start regularly attending shul and they both find something they can get out of it, especially as I headcanon that they retire from the force I think it gives them a community. For Starsky, I think it gives him a connection to his heritage and his family and maybe his father in particular, as well as a focus on social justice work through the synagogue so that he and Hutch can still feel like they’re making a difference. Tbh, I think that Hutch might find a lot to connect to in Judaism, maybe in the way it’s focused on making a difference in the here and now and not in order to access some afterlife. To be clear, I don’t think that’s necessarily the angle Christianity takes but I think it is how Hutch might perceive it and I think he might find Judaism more grounding in that respect. Also, if he converts then Starsky’s ma would be thrilled that if he hasn’t found a nice Jewish girl then at least he’s found a nice Jewish boy and Starsky will tease that Hutch’s hair is so long he might as well be a girl. I think it would create a really interesting relationship between Starsky’s ma and Hutch where they talk about Judaism and she introduces him to recipes and books and stuff and later Hutch is showing Starsky and he’s like, how come Ma never showed me?! And Hutch is like, she tried to idiot you just got distracted. And they can just, explore stuff together. It’s really soft.

Also, I think they host Shabbat dinners every Friday and it’s really cool because it’s a way that they can stay in touch with the Dobeys after they’ve left the force, and how they can stay close with Huggy when they’re not visiting for tips every other day. Also Kiko and Pete can come and then stay the night and spend Saturday with them maybe to give Mrs. Ramos a break. Minnie can come too and say the prayers!! Plus Paco Ortega and Joey and tbh any number of the other kids they’ve accidentally adopted over the years.

Pesach at theirs is just, the fullest house you can possibly imagine I love it. @jimmyandthegiraffes came up with the idea that there isn’t space for Dobey and the boys are like, oh you’re sat on the counter and he’s like? But there’s an empty chair and place set out here?? And he goes to sit down and everyone is like, nOOoO that’s for Elijah!! You cAnt sIT in Elijah’S plaCe?!

Gosh I love them

Starsky high key calls the new year “secular Rosh Hashanah”

Even though I personally headcanon a greater observance after sweet revenge, there really is nothing at all to say he isn’t at least somewhat practising over the course of the series and even that he is, given the Chanukkiah and what that means about holidays. I like how he keeps it up year round to maybe keep in mind his faith/upbringing/background.

I think it’s interesting that many of the fics that engage with Starsky as Jewish often suggest that he’s not religious, which is of course completely possible. However, just because he doesn’t ever talk about a faith in God doesn’t mean it isn’t present, especially when faith is often something so private and proselytising isn’t a part of Judaism. Personally I think that Starsky does have faith in God throughout the series and after, and this does impact his relationship with Judaism prior to Sweet Revenge as he considers things like the mezuzah and engages with Jewish culture, but that it’s after Sweet Revenge that he starts engaging with his faith more as connected to Judaism and religious traditions, rather than I’m going to celebrate my culture and upbringing and also I have a faith in God. He sees the two as more connected perhaps? and his faith as having a more direct impact on his life.

I really like how Huggy says the thing about the chicken soup too, and the “desert people” line is made a lot sweeter by thinking of him as a cool supportive friend who Starsky has known for a long time and who typically engages with Judaism specifically because it means something to Starsky.

I seemingly have a lot of thoughts on this.

Also, I really like how he calls him blintz, weird Freudian implications aside, especially because blintzes can be eaten at any time but are typically associated with Shavuot and I like the idea that Starsky has really a really fond association with his religion but also with Hutch. I really like the idea that if Hutch converts then the two can stay up all night together, eating blintzes and cheese and Hutch can maybe read aloud for my dyslexic boy.

Essentially, I just really love thinking about this and I think there’s more space for an actively practising Starsky than there’s generally understood to be, religious or not, even over the course of the show. Especially if you consider Reform Judaism. But tbh just give me Jewish!Starsky fics and I’m happy whatever they’re like.

I’ve worked really hard to find each scene I’ve mentioned on my DVDs (this post has taken me literally So Long to write (9 months-ish? it’s my Child) and I’ve researched it far Far more than I do my uni assignments whoops), so you can be sure I’ve checked to make sure each reference is legitimate. If you want to see screenshots of these quotations, or you want to know whereabouts in the episodes they occur, then message me! If you have additional examples or you disagree with me or if you’ve spotted a mistake then share that too!

With all my thanks to my partner Chester who’s put up with me banging on about this and spending Hours and Hours being ridiculously pedantic in the hopes of creating as coherent a resource as I can. They’ve also contributed so much and just they’re rad. I also cannot thank enough the canon compendium for helping me fill in all the blanks and pointing me in all the directions I needed to go in, I Genuinely cannot think of a better fandom resource. Also the first 3 seasons scripts are available here which is a huge help.

tldr; Starsky is irrefutably, canonically Jewish and also I love him 

[paperclipninja]

Younger post-ep ramble 6x10

Ok, so this week’s episode, ‘It’s All About The Money, Honey’ delivered two of my season 6 wish list items: Kelsey and Charles working together as a supportive team and really getting to see their dynamic and relationship (I sometimes forget that they have a whole history BL - Before Liza) and Liza and Charles getting drunk and handsy at a bar. I’m not even kidding, when I wrote my season 6 wish list I word for word wrote that. So thank you for those Alison Brown, I am simple folk and I am happy. I would also like to show my appreciation for a number of throwbacks that were nice little nuggets from previous seasons.

I don’t know whether it was deliberate or not, but this ep seemed to really play very obvious set ups, where you could see what was coming and kind of hoped it’d play out differently because eek! but then nope. I have no idea if this approach has a name in screenwriting, it was sort of like set-up slapstick, for absolute lack of any better description (I’m sure ‘eek!’ is a technical term somewhere…). I am writing much of this on a plane on my way to holiday time (yay), which may mean nothing or something but I think my point is that I may miss a few bits and pieces here and there. There’s much to discuss so let’s do this! 

After their declarations of love last week, this episode opens with Zane, a towel, his abs and Kelsey chatting about her trip to Chicago to ‘beg for money’, which nicely sets up a few themes for the ep. The issue of not being taken seriously as a woman in business is quickly flagged, along with the appropriate foreshadowing of future faux pas with Zane’s reassurance that Kelsey will get their attention being the only woman in the room (as he very unsubtly opens her shirt while staring at her chest) and Kelsey’s quip that ‘I guess I have more assets than you’ (boobs, she means her boobs ICYMI).

Liza and Charles are also saying their farewells, with Charles continuing to be supportive boyfriend no. 1 as he tells Liza to stop feeling guilty before reassuring her that everything is going to be fine, which we all know means it absolutely will not be. I’d like to officially welcome back the ‘miss you’ texts because a) they’re adorable and b) I do love a good text distraction as a giant poster of a woman and her ex goes past on the side of a bus just when that woman is floating along blissfully thinking of her current bf. As she passes another poster, it’s only a matter of time until Liza comes face to face with, well, her face. On the side of a building. Eek! indeed.

Naturally Liza’s first instinct is to call Kelsey, who is at the airport with Charles, to ask her to stop him from seeing the ad until she has the chance to speak to him. I feel like a phone call to Charles instead in that moment would’ve sorted it all pretty quickly, but then we would’ve missed out on his smile at the pic of Liza that comes up on Kelsey’s phone and the funniest moment of the episode, Kelsey’s sudden onset escalator phobia (‘I don’t like them, they’re weird’ LOL). The absolute highlight of this episode for me was seeing Kelsey and Charles working together. From the moment she’s filling him in on the investors they’re meeting with because she’s done her research to Charles saying that she can do the job without investors sticking their noses in (Bryce reference noted, what a dud) to Kelsey redirecting him to the elevator and him confused but obliging without question, their dynamic from the get go was fab and a lovely build on last week’s ep.

Meanwhile, luckily for Liza Lauren is at work, which is really lucky for all of us because Lauren now only referring to Diana as Diva and Diana clearly very ok with it is all I’ve ever wanted and my mind is filling in all the blanks about what the two of them would have been sitting there talking about while waiting to see if the people they sent to catch their food return (this line = yes Diva). I loved Lauren’s 'here?’ when Liza asks if she can talk to her (then 'so here, ok’ as she sits down lol) because it certainly feels as though Lauren is trying to keep the moment about Diana and the excitement of getting the appointment at Kleinfeld and is reluctant to let Liza make it all about her (which she of course does and Diana calls her out on it and I am here for it every day of the week). 

Liza’s obsessive focus on the ad campaign and the need to speak to Charles about it really consumes her for the entire episode and blinds her to the needs of any other characters in way that seems uncharacteristic, but is also quite on brand considering some of the self-absorbed moments we’ve seen from her throughout the series. I guess it just seems uncharacteristic for season 6 Liza (or at least my understanding and construction of this character at this point), with a lie no longer in play and able to live her life honestly, as she’s been hoping to do since season one. I’m unsure whether this fixation and her consequent behaviour was meant to be funny or highlight the point that clearly there is more to the poster than it just being about clothes (we get it, there are FEELINGS), but I have to say that I really struggled with it considering Liza’s journey to where she is now and also this show’s usual tendency to be more nuanced.

Despite Liza’s persistence with Lauren re: Infinitely 21 at Kleinfeld (my concern that Lauren was harbouring some ill feeling towards Liza following the lie reveal was quashed when she revealed that she’d phoned Shelly to say Liza was uncomfortable with the ad. I mean, ‘I left a voicemail for you!’ is as ‘I’ve got your back’ as it comes), we were given a delightful moment between Diana and Liza as they reminisced about their first weddings and it’s conversations like this that I would like to see many more of. These two talking as women who have shared life experience is everything. It is then revealed that Infinitely 21’s campaign is going national which leads Liza to bail on the bride to frantically make a dash to Chicago, but my main takeaway from this scene is that Diana is going to have the wedding celebration she damn well deserves and quite frankly, this Trout/DeLuca “event of the year” cannot come fast enough.

Turns out Liza is not the only one getting on a big jet plane, as Claire fills Josh in on the amazing promotion to Senior Project Manager she’s been offered at Google, which will set Gemma up nicely. The only catch is, it’s in LA. Josh is understandably upset and as Claire assures him they’ll figure it out, he also spots the Infinitely 21 poster for the first time, because the only thing better than finding out your daughter might be moving across the country is being plastered all over the city in a pic with your ex who you’re still in love with. One of my favourite friendships on this show is that between Maggie and Josh, so I enjoyed seeing him go to Maggie to talk over the revelations of the morning (what a morning!). You’ve gotta love Maggie’s, ‘it’s not a sign’ to snap Josh out of the wallowing (and Josh’s ‘it’s literally a sign’, ha), her encouraging him to fight for Gemma and use the Infinitely 21 success to his advantage was a solid suggestion (though I am a little disappointed that Maggie didn’t ask if he’d consider moving to LA as one possible option to keep Gemma in his life or at least throw it out there on one of her famous Maggie ‘these are your options’ lists).

Josh meets with Shelly, who makes zero attempt to hide her thirst and it’s pretty darn hilarious and I actually love this entire interaction. Josh’s idea of franchising Inkburg, mentioned at the retreat in episode 6, remerges in the form of a collaboration with Infinitely 21 (Retail-tainment). Inkburg Midtown would offer a set of flash pieces exclusive to Infinitely 21, it is all very well pitched and I like seeing Josh in business mode because he’s clearly pretty decent at it after all these years, but not as much as Shelly likes it and him and everything which leads to her basically groping him in store (‘I’m a hugger’, yeah sure Shel). I have to believe that Josh’s move to establish the partnership with Infinitely 21 is so that he has clout to replicate the idea in LA and establish a national presence if he wants, rather than to try and keep Claire in New York by saying he can support her financially (unless we discover that is what Claire actually wants). Josh has been written as way too woke to do something to sabotage the career of the mother of his child, especially considering his experience with Liza and knowing what she went through. I, for one, will watch this space.

Another space I have watched closely is Kelsey’s, especially as she’s grappled with the role of publisher and really found her feet in the last couple of episodes. Her brilliant boss mode continued this week and seeing Kelsey so nervous before the pitch meeting, but still keeping her level head even after discovering Jacobs was the only shot at keeping the company alive, demonstrated again how much she has grown. From the moment Jeffrey and Ennis greet Kelsey and Charles, and by greet I mean look straight through Kelsey at Charles, you just know that this is going to be a tough gig for Kels. The men very obviously talk only to Charles, patronise Kelsey asking 'do you even know what those [precious metals] are?’, ugh it’s all so gross but also a bit too real and familiar. I love that Charles makes a point of saying 'we’ and emphasising that they are a team and it is obvious he is not comfortable that even when Kelsey is speaking they still look at and talk to him. Seeing Kelsey interject confidently and intelligently (although when she tells that room of suits to follow her on Insta it was a definite Eek! moment) was so satisfying, she read the room, commanded it pay attention and it did. Charles is proud and impressed and lets her hold the floor (as he should but it was great to see) and I could legit watch a whole series with these two as kick-ass business partners.

Just when I thought my new fave dynamic duo couldn’t have any more golden moments, Kelsey and Charles getting celebratory drinks happened. After last season saw a lot of tension between these two characters, seeing this relationship shift to one of mentor/mentee that is truly symbiotic (I have no doubt that Charles is learning as much from Kelsey as she is from him), where Kelsey still needs reassurance about how the business world works and Charles expresses his eternal gratitude for her amazing work…seriously, did I mention how much I love this? It is an actual dream.

Of course it is just after a commemorative glass clinking moment that Liza arrives, much to the elation of Charles (‘this day just keeps getting better and better’, ugh) and wariness of Kelsey, who immediately questions Liza’s real reason for being there.  Upon hearing that the Infinitely 21 campaign (yes, we’re still talking about that) has gone national so Liza came to speak to Charles, Kelsey looks at her with the same ‘you have lost the plot’ look I had on my face, before telling her, ‘not now…we are celebrating’. Liza agrees as smitten, happy Charles looks over but this high school drama-esque carry on is really a bit much at this point. All I can say is thank goodness for the scene that followed, because it very quickly made me forget that I was getting annoyed.

First we get the revelation that Liza made out with Chrissie Hart on Shelter Island, which was also the last time we saw Charles and Liza drunk together but they were also not actually together, so it was very much that moment that sparked my need to see them out and drinking again some time.  So yes, sharing great stories as they all sit around, check, they are all so carefree and jovial and then Charles and Liza just start making out in front of third wheel Kelsey and I cannot and this is 100% the quality content that my trashbag heart lives for. But it is Liza and Charles bidding Kelsey goodnight when she says she’s heading back to her room, and Charles saying, ‘bye’ before turning to Liza with a soft, ‘hi’ that completely undoes me. Seriously, project this entire scene on loop on my tombstone for I. am. deceased.

Drunk Kelsey back in her room responding to Zane’s message with a boob shot = I am DYING again but for different reasons. Kelsey Lorraine indeed, Lauren seeing it on Insta stories is every kind of second hand mortification and poor Kelsey waking up and realising what she’s done is yikes (but lbh it’s also a little bit hilarious, special thanks to the messages left on her story: A tale of two titties, Nippy longstockings and my personal fave, Did you mean to post this? It’s Liz from the gym). Kelsey’s waking nightmare is contrasted by Liza waking up to her fantasy of her, Charles, coffee and paper (you and me both sista), but my fantasy is quickly shattered when Liza spots that pesky ad on the back of the newspaper and grabs it from Charles in a totally normal way, which he interprets to be playful and suggestive, until he realises it is not.

Liza’s reveal makes it pretty obvious that she’s feeling guilty but that is quickly interrupted by the frantic knocking of Kelsey, the bearer of more bad news. Liza greeting her with ‘he’s seen it’, countered by Kelsey’s horrified, ‘Charles saw my boobs?’ before Liza corrects her with, ‘no, the Infinitely 21 ad’ is just so mind boggling, I mean, what person in their right mind opens the door to their best friend’s incessant knocking and thinks ‘they must be beside themselves to find out if I told Charles yet?’ I get it, it’s consuming Liza because it’s dredging up feelings so that the triangle can be revived after lying dormant (presumed dead) the past two seasons, but Charles having to hear about Kelsey’s mistake (though Liza’s ‘you look good’ is v. funny), as well as process that Liza didn’t come to Chicago to surprise him and Kelsey at all just makes me pretty sad.

Kelsey continues to be impressive as she owns her screw up and humbly explains herself to the room full of gross men. I do love how they’ve been cast, so much brown fabric. Charles’, 'it’s just too much of a good thing…I mean Kelsey’s internet presence’, is awks af but he’s really trying to throw his support behind her. Ennis Jacobs asking Kelsey if she’s considered distancing herself from the Millennial brand (dude, she IS the Millennial brand) and saying they are still interested in investing if Charles is publisher made me want to scream for her, Charles’ assertion that 'she is a woman who has made nothing but smart decisions since she’s been in a position to make decisions’ met with the biggest decision Kelsey has made yet; stepping down as publisher.

I do see it, the juxtaposition of how a man embroiled in a scandal (publisher having an affair with a 28 year old assistant) is treated vs. a woman whose potentially scandalous error was accidental, that the ultimate ramifications for him are minimal because look, he’s now back where he was not that long ago (though I also see the mirroring of Charles having to step down due to the scandal and now Kelsey having to do the same…so maybe they’re just the ultimate tag team?). I am going to wait to see how the rest of this season plays out (on all fronts), but if at seasons end, Charles is publisher again, and it’s all basically as it once was, then what was the point of any of this beyond making that statement? I mean, there are a number of ways it could go, so I am interested to see what this means. I am just really heartbroken for Kelsey because in that moment, she put the need of the company ahead of her own ambition and I am also heartbroken because she really had FINALLY come into her own as publisher and I was excited to see what she would do next.

After the horrendous meeting, Liza is waiting for Charles to finish the conversation about the ad and Charles suggests that she fly back to NY with Kelsey, because ‘she needs you now’ (seriously, if Charles is in your corner he is IN your corner). I love that Charles knows what Liza flying to Chicago really means and calls her out on it, that he is not bothered by her past or relationship with Josh, it’s the fact she felt she had to get on a plane that makes him wonder if there is something to be worried about. Call me boring but I have always appreciated that these two have actual proper adult conversations and don’t avoid issues and this was no exception.

Charles puts it to Liza that ‘everyone has a past, but in order to have a future, you move on from it’, to which she responds that ‘other people live in the past in order to have a future’.  Yes, Liza had to live a younger life in order to build a new future for herself but now that she has re-established her career and her real age is no longer a secret, is that what she wants to keep doing? I do believe Liza realises she isn’t being fair to Charles but I think we all know that even if her pledge not to see Josh anymore was genuine at the time, it is not going to be upheld and was probably a bit of an over-promise. But I do appreciate that Liza really is choosing Charles in that moment.

It’s the escalator ride (which is weirdly relatable for some reason) once Kelsey and Liza are back in New York, but neither want to go home, that shows that even if Liza does want to move forward, she is still stuck between these two worlds. I have to say, Kelsey losing her job and being publicly humiliated somehow being on par with a 42 year old woman feeling sad that she can’t be friends with an ex because she’s confused about her feelings is ridiculous and I personally feel like the final moments of this ep should have been focused squarely on Kelsey. I do agree with Liza that Kelsey will get it back though, that was the correct response.

The painfully longing glances at the giant poster of her and Josh can be taken as a letting go of the past and moving forward (time will tell) but it also undoubtedly indicates that Liza’s days of once again oscillating between these two men are very much on the horizon which is, to be frank, really disappointing at this point in a series. My biggest issue is the fact that we keep being told that this show is not about the triangle, it’s about the women and the friendships yet it’s constantly being made about the triangle. In always pulling the focus to the triangle this show is making it about the men, which is the very thing it so brilliantly admonishes society for doing.

While I am absolutely reserving all judgement until I see how the rest of this season unfolds, I have to believe that if the triangle does make a comeback, it is being dredged up again to bring it to a head once and for all, so that we can all move on and focus on the many far more compelling aspects that make up this wonderful show.

[sailor-cresselia]

The Great Ex-Aid Rewatch: Eps 07-08

...so I guess I’m liveblogging my notes now. This is a thing that’s happening.

Eh. It’ll let me keep easier access to them if I do this, so I might as well.

-

You wanna know something that’s driving me up a wall with regards to the early OP? Kiriya is entirely in white. Like, Emu is in his red pants and yellow shirt under his coat, and at least Hiiro and Taiga get to have their darker pants and shirts underneath their coats, but Kiriya is in just white. It’s super disconcerting.

...actually, Taiga’s ‘action’ shot of him twirling his gashat looks like it could have come from his episode zero special, since he’s clearly wearing dark purple scrubs under the white coat, and it’s in that same alley that they had him doing the simulation in. Huh.

But Kiriya. White leather jacket. White, normal length pants. Super disconcerting.

–––

I love how sometimes, like here on the beach against the two collabos bugsters and ‘the black ex-aid’, you can tell that those transformation cutscenes are actually happening!

Like, sometimes after a Brave level up sequence, you’ll see him stepping down and putting his arms down from his door-opening pose. And here we have Ex-Aid dropping down from mid-air, now wearing the Gekitotsu Robots armor. It’s a nice touch.

–

…okay, so. It’s not just an issue with Google Translate that keeps turning ‘bugster’ into ‘bug star’ when materials for Ex-Aid get auto-translated. Toei does it themselves. The English sub-heading on the report Kiriya reads to Jungo says ‘Grade confidential report of the bug star virus infection by Ministry of Health’. I’d thought it might be G.Translate having issues like it does with names, but apparently not. (How many ways can the auto-translate try to write gashat? Who knows? It’s about as many different ways as it can try to write Emu’s name.)

Speaking of this scene… Kiriya used to wear normal clothes!

Well, he used to wear non-floral buttonups, anyway. And intact pants, though they were still rolled up to a capri length, the same way his tattered jeans are. The shoes are the same, and he’s wearing a regular labcoat – and properly, he’s using the sleeves and everything!

–

So. Parad. As anyone who has seen my writing knows, I hecking LOVE Parad and all the potential he brings to the table.

In Episode 3, he showed up to tell Graphite to chill, and dared Taiga to collect all the gashats. He and Graphite teleported out – right after Graphite told Parad that he’s weird – and Emu showed up chasing the patient of the day.

Episode 7. The Lazer vs. Genm Black Ex-Aid fight. Kiriya launches a finisher, a veritable storm of arrows. KUROTO AIN’T DOING SO HOT. He’s getting hit by a lot of energy arrows, right up until Parad NYOOMS in behind the smokescreen of fire.

Like, literally zooms into frame – not even a teleport, there’s a motion blur that’s in the shape of his silhouette there.

He holds up ONE HAND and blocks the remainder of the arrows.

And he smirks. Didn’t seem to even really be bothered by the fire and energy hitting against the general area – because it wasn’t hitting him. It was all being blocked just before it made it to him.

He bought Kuroto enough time to get out of there before the smoke cleared, and Kuroto was already detransforming when Parad stepped in.

(…oh man, the attack was still ongoing at that point… If Parad hadn’t interfered, Kiriya might have accidentally killed the guy he was trying to expose a few years early.)

So. With that said…

Parad clearly has shielding abilities, and as far as I know, none of the other bugsters have that.

Graphite has his fire attacks, and Lovelica has his. Er. Mind control. (Because of course the otome game has mind control.) But Poppy gets free transformation between her bugster and human guises, and the other two seem to need a bugvisor to either stabilize or access their ‘monster’ forms, despite being the other two complete bugsters.

Parad, who is technically ‘incomplete’, never came directly after the Riders until he had his Gashat Gear Dual.

What could he have done if he had an offensive skill?!

And doesn’t it just make sense that, without a fully realized game of his own, Parad gets most of his makeup from Emu? Because whether you place him as originally being the bugster from Mighty Action C or from Emu’s original idea for Mighty Brothers… neither of those games were finished. They were a demo or hadn’t moved past the concept stage, respectively. He doesn’t have a defined source material to draw powers from.

So, the bugster that would eventually be known as Parad, whether we say he was really there like he claims, or if he’s just… using Emu’s memories as if they were his own, still gets most of his identity from an eight-year-old.

One who, not long after being infected, was hit by a car.

It makes sense that his imaginary friend would have the ability to stop that, doesn’t it?

Emu and Parad do share the drowning imagery, after all. We see it more with Parad, but… down the road, when Emu is describing how scared he was after being hit? They use that same drowning shot, but with eight-year-old Emu. After it was used for Parad.

–

Back on track to episode 7, there’s also how, at this point, Parad has just jointly ruined Kiriya’s credibility and protected Kuroto’s identity as The Dark Ex-Aid. Kiriya, Hiiro, and Emu have all seen him in the vicinity of/being not-Genm, and Taiga saw him with Graphite in episode 3.

So, after he teleports away here, all four of our main riders have seen him in association with the bugsters, and have seen him teleport. AKA, they all know he’s a bugster.

They just have no idea who he is yet.

–––

Episode 8

So, the first half or so of the episode is pretty much standard fare – patient, bugster, Taiga being a dick, etc.

When Emu asks if Taiga’s holding the patient hostage in order to get his and Hiiro’s gashats? Taiga doesn’t answer.

Because he’s not holding him hostage. Taiga fully intends to destroy the bugster whether or not they show up – but he’d prefer to get the gashats first. Two birds, one stone. This is a simpler way to get them all at once.

–

You know, I’m still not sure if Zero Day, when numerous people were lost, is the same day as when Saki died. What Hiiro says implies it was, but we never really get a good description of when it happened. It’s clearly around the same time, since in Episode Zero, Kuroto said that they would ‘stop propagating the virus for now,’ after it was already a forgone conclusion that Taiga wouldn’t be able to save Saki. But does that mean that there were numerous other people who died that same night? I’ve never been able to tell.

(At least ep 4 finally showed me the confirmation of when Kiriya blackmailed his way into getting a Driver – three years before the show, and thus two years after Zero Day. Jungo died on Zero day in an ‘accident,’ so Kiriya had been living with that guilt, and with knowing about the bugster virus, for two years before he first confronted Kuroto. Interesting.)

–

Parad: (To Kuroto) Okay, so, I know you designed the protogashats and all, and they’re super powerful, which is awesome. But why the hell are you still using that thing? You’re gonna kill yourself.

…Hm. When Parad starts off, saying how the protogashats are powerful, he’s looking at his game, and smiling. When he mentions that Kuroto’s using one, he starts to set his game aside. When he says that it’ll destroy him… he turns and looks directly at Kuroto. With an incredibly judgemental look.

Learn from Taiga and Kuroto’s examples, kids. Don’t use protogashats.

(For the record, Excite’s translation of the line is “you’ll end up destroying yourself”, and RTA’s is “it will ruin your body.” Those are… slightly different implications, guys.)

… Kuroto why is your phone ORANGE.

–

Taiga: Oh, good, you two showed up after all.

Emu: I’m just here to save the patient.

Hiiro: I’m here to kick your ass, Hanaya.

Taiga: The one to get all the gashats… will be me.

–

…hold on.

Hold on a minute.

Taiga wanted to be the only Kamen Rider so that nobody else would have to suffer the way he did. But there was – theoretically, anyway – only the one protogashat when he was first active. They only ‘recently’ were able to get ten – and Taiga’s been out of the loop for five years. We were told about the ‘collect all ten’ aspect by Poppy, who’s been allied with the MoH and ‘good’ Kuroto.

Taiga… was dared. By Parad, who was with Graphite.

Would Taiga be using this same method if it weren’t for Parad? Would he be trying to take all the gashats by force if it hadn’t been told to him by the guy who was with his arch-enemy?

Yes, he doesn’t want anyone else to be a Rider. But nobody else seems to care about the collect ‘em all aspect they’ve been told about – Kiriya went for Giri Giri Chambara because he needed LEGS, but it was also about 50% incidental. Hiiro is dead set on being the only rider because he doesn’t think anyone else is qualified. Not to say he’s wrong, since he is the only one of the four who’s supposed to be here, but he’s also being an ass about it. Emu would just very much prefer that nobody die, thanks.

Would Taiga be so concerned with getting all of the gashats to keep the others out if he hadn’t spoken to Parad?

–

Hiiro has a lot less… skill as a Rider than the other four, doesn’t he? If a tactic he’s trying doesn’t work, he doesn’t try something else – he just keeps trying the same one again. I know that’s probably a surgeon habit – do it the same each time, to minimize the chance of error. But these ‘operations’ are anything but standard. Each and every other one of the Riders is able to improvise. Hiiro picks up on it a little more, by the time we hit the 20’s, but never to the extent of the others.

Here in ep 8, he tries using a boosted attack with the Doremifa Beat turntable – scratching it once or twice, and trying to use the sword beam. Over and over. Taiga dodges each and every attack. Everyone else varies their techniques, even just a little. Taiga’s always made good use of the multiple modes of his assorted firearms. Genm has his assorted OP weaponry – currently, Shakariki Sports and the Bugvisor’s chainsaw mode. Once Kiriya gained actual limbs, he’s damned good with the scythe mode and the bow and arrow mode of the Gashacon Sparrow. And Emu. Well, Emu is Emu, and has made good use of the Gashacon Breaker’s sword and hammer modes since day one, as well as the energy items and general genre savvy with regards to who they’re fighting.

I think it’s a little telling that during fights where nobody is being particularly targeted, Hiiro is often the first to go down. Kiriya spent episode 6 unconscious in the hospital because Kuroto singled him out for a beat down in episode 5, and that’s the only reason he was the first out of the ep 5 fight. Then it was Hiiro, and then Taiga.

Either Hiiro withdraws first out of safety concerns, as in episode 3, or he goes down first, as seen here in episode 8 against Taiga.

–

And then here comes the curveball. Once Taiga’s beaten Emu and Hiiro, we get a mirror conversation both there, and with Kiriya and Kuroto on what it means to use a Gamer Driver.

Taiga throws Hiiro for a loop, one that’s not helped by Emu having exactly zero idea what he’s talking about.

Kuroto throws Kiriya a nice little distraction, to keep the heat off of himself.

–

Learn from Taiga and Kuroto’s examples, kids. Don’t use protogashats. And DEFINITELY don’t use them like Graphite!

[gloriousgwendolinechristie]

Press: The end of Game of Thrones: An exclusive report on the epic final season

EW – OCTOBER 2017: THE TABLE READ

When Kit Harington entered the conference room, he had no idea what to expect.

The final season’s scripts had been emailed just a couple of days earlier, sending the Game of Thrones cast into a reading frenzy. Like millions of fans around the world, the actors had been waiting nearly a decade to learn their characters’ fates. The entire six-episode season arrived at once, protected by layers of password security.

Sophie Turner flew through her copies in record time, quickly messaging the producers her reaction. “It was completely overwhelming,” says the actress, who plays Sansa Stark. “Afterwards I felt numb, and I had to take a walk for hours.” Others, like Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen), first had to hurry home to get some privacy. “I turned to my best mate and was like, ‘Oh my God! I gotta go! I gotta go!’” she recalls. “And I completely flipped out.” She then settled in for a reading session with a cup of tea. “Genuinely the effect it had on me was profound,” Clarke adds. “That sounds insanely pretentious, but I’m an actor, so I’m allowed one pretentious adjective per season.” Peter Dinklage, meanwhile, broke his years-long habit of checking immediately to see if Tyrion Lannister survives. “This was the first time ever that I didn’t skip to the end,” he says.

Even showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss were uncharacteristically anxious, wondering how the actors would react to the climactic twists. “We knew exactly when our script coordinator sent them out, we knew what minute they sent them, and then you’re just waiting for the emails,” Benioff said.

The cast then journeyed to Belfast to gather in a production office for the formal read-through. By then, everybody knew the tale that was about to unfold, with two notable exceptions: Davos Seaworth actor Liam Cunningham (“The f—ing scripts wouldn’t open, the double extra security!” he grouses) and Harington, who outright refused to read anything in advance.

“I walked in saying, ‘Don’t tell me, I don’t want to know,’” Harington says. “What’s the point of reading it to myself in my own head when I can listen to people do it and find out with my friends?” So, yes: Jon Snow, quite literally, knew nothing.

Benioff and Weiss opened the proceedings by asking the cast to refrain from doing anything during filming or afterward that might reveal even the tiniest spoiler (“Don’t even take a photo of your boots on the ground of the set,” one actor recalls being told). And then, seated around a long table scattered with a few prop skulls, the cast read aloud the final season of Game of Thrones.

At one point, Harington wept.

Later, he cried a second time.

SEPTEMBER 2012: IT’S IMPOSSIBLE

After the table read, the Game of Thrones cast spent 10 months filming just six episodes of television. But the season actually took far longer to pull off. GoT’s final chapters have been in the works for years. To better understand what’s ahead, let’s first go back to EW’s season 3 set visit and this never-before-revealed conversation with Benioff and Weiss…

The production camper was like many others on the set — barren, cramped, cold, utilitarian, with dirt on the floors from muddy boots tramping in and out all day. The showrunners sat on the same side of a tiny dinette booth while the wind coming off the Northern Ireland bay howled outside. They were already thinking about their final season, and it worried them.

During its second season, the fantasy drama averaged 10.3 million viewers across all platforms. That was enough to ensure they were eventually going to finish the series, yet that inevitability was also the problem. Because when they first pitched Thrones to HBO, they hadn’t exactly been honest. And now they were working every day toward a finale that was impossible to make.

“The lie we told is the show is contained and it’s about the characters,” Benioff said, which was at best half true. The epic fantasy was very much about its ensemble cast, but it’s also the least “contained” series ever made. “The worlds get so big, the battles get so massive.”

Author George R.R. Martin, whose series of novels forms the basis for Thrones, had revealed to the duo the broad strokes of how his Song of Ice and Fire saga secretly ends, including a description of an epic final battle that’s been teased from the show’s very first scene. But this climactic confrontation was miles out of reach for a series that cost about $5 million per episode. “We have a very generous budget from HBO, but we know what’s coming down the line and, ultimately, it’s not generous enough,” Benioff said.

So the producers had an idea: The final season could be six hours long and released as three movies in theaters — just like Martin’s best-known influence, The Lord of the Rings. It’s not that the duo wanted to make movies per se, but it seemed like the only way to get the time and money needed to pull off their finale. “It’s what we’re working towards in a perfect world,” Weiss said. “We end up with an epic fantasy story but with the level of familiarity and investment in the characters that are normally impossible in a two-hour movie.”

The flaw in this plan was that HBO is about serving its subscribers, not taking gambles at the box office. Behind the scenes, the network brass gently shot down the movie idea. But executives assured Benioff and Weiss that they would eventually have everything they needed to make a final season that was “a summer tentpole-size spectacle.”

Years later, the producers would strike a deal with the network to spend two years on a shortened season 8 that would cost more than $15 million an episode. You could say HBO made good on that promise from 2012, and the showrunners will happily give the network full credit. “They put their money where their mouths are — literally stuffed their mouth full of million-dollar bills, which don’t exist anymore,” Weiss quips.

But it’s probably more accurate to say that since season 3, Benioff and Weiss willed their ambitious final season into reality the hard way: by growing Game of Thrones into the biggest show in the world, a hugely profitable pop culture and merchandising sensation with more than 30 million viewers an episode and a record number of Emmys. Only with that kind of leverage do your towering ambitions begin to look like reasonable requests.

In fact, the GoT team was so successful that the biggest sticking point in the agreement was persuading HBO to halt the series. “We want to stop where we — the people working on it, and the people watching it — both wish it went a little bit longer,” Benioff says. “There’s the old adage of ‘Always leave them wanting more,’ but also things start to fall apart when you stop wanting to be there. You don’t want to f— it up.”

That concern — a constant desire to conclude the show on the strongest possible note — is something we heard over and over from the cast and crew when we visited the GoT set for the last time.

  MARCH 2018: THE FINAL SEASON

Arriving at the studio gate, I’m halted by a guard and asked to scan my badge, a security upgrade from past years. Then I’m asked for my phone, and the guard covers its cameras with stickers — that’s new too. Along with an HBO escort, I walk inside an enormous hangar that’s so large it’s where the RMS Titanic was painted.

What’s being filmed here is episode 6, the series finale. Like Harington going into the table read, I don’t know anything about the final season’s storyline. I look around at a meticulously constructed set that I’ve never seen on the show before. Several actors are performing, and I’m stunned: There are characters in the finale that I did not expect. I gradually begin to piece together what has happened in Westeros over the previous five episodes and try not to look like I’m freaking out.

There is absolutely nothing more that can be said about that scene at this time.

A word about spoilers: The cast is used to keeping story secrets, yet they’ve never sounded so anxious about it. “There are moments where you don’t trust yourself to have this in your brain,” says Joe Dempsie, who plays Gendry. “You’re in possession of something millions of people want to know. It’s such a bizarre feeling. And between now and when it comes out, I’m gonna be drunk at some point.”

So far, at least, the team has done a far better job than in previous years at keeping the story under wraps, even while drunk. Theories abound online, but they are guesses. A purported script leaked to Reddit, but here’s a way to spot a fake — real Game of Thrones scripts don’t say “Game of Thrones” on them. “Drone killer” guns were used to guard against any peeping robots attempting to fly over the set. Production documents stating which actors were required to be where and when used code names (Clarke, for example, was “Eldiss”). “It gets highly confusing when you need to remember who is who,” Turner says.

Benioff and Weiss’ next gig is writing a new Star Wars film, and they received some final-season secrecy tips from The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson and producer Kathleen Kennedy. “They’ve given us a lot of hints about how to lock things down, things we never would have thought of or didn’t know were possible,” Weiss says.

At some point HBO will release a proper final-season trailer revealing more. Until then, here’s some basic setup we can tell you: Season 8 opens at Winterfell with an episode that contains plenty of callbacks to the show’s pilot. Instead of King Robert’s procession arriving, it’s Daenerys and her army. What follows is a thrilling and tense intermingling of characters — some of whom have never previously met, many who have messy histories — as they all prepare to face the inevitable invasion of the Army of the Dead.

“It’s about all of these disparate characters coming together to face a common enemy, dealing with their own past, and defining the person they want to be in the face of certain death,” co-executive producer Bryan Cogman says. “It’s an incredibly emotional, haunting, bittersweet final season, and I think it honors very much what George set out to do — which is flipping this kind of story on its head.”

How these fan favorites get along drives much of the drama this season (okay, here’s one specific tease from the premiere — Sansa isn’t thrilled that Jon bent the knee to his fancy new Targaryen girlfriend, at least not at first).

The drama builds to a confrontation with the Army of the Dead that’s expected to be the most sustained action sequence ever made for television or film. One episode — the same that Benioff and Weiss were concerned about pulling off so many years ago — is wall-to-wall action, courtesy of “Battle of the Bastards” director Miguel Sapochnik.

Last April a crew member revealed that Game of Thrones had wrapped 55 night shoots while filming a battle. Media outlets around the world ran stories saying the final season’s battle took twice as long as the 25-day shoot for season 6’s climactic Battle of the Bastards. This wildly understated what really happened. The 55 nights were only for the battle’s outdoor scenes at the Winterfell set. Filming then moved into the studio, where Sapochnik continued shooting the same battle for weeks after that.

“It’s brutal,” Dinklage says. “It makes the Battle of the Bastards look like a theme park.”

The battle doesn’t have just one focus, either, but rather intercuts between multiple characters involved in their own survival storylines that each feels like its own genre. “Having the largest battle doesn’t sound very exciting — it actually sounds pretty boring,” Benioff says. “Part of our challenge, and really, Miguel’s challenge, is how to keep that compelling… we’ve been building toward this since the very beginning, it’s the living against the dead, and you can’t do that in a 12-minute sequence.”

To help pull it off, the production hugely expanded its set for the Stark ancestral home of Winterfell, adding a towering castle exterior, a larger courtyard, and more interconnected rooms and ramparts. Strolling around the new Winterfell is like wandering a sprawling, immersive medieval resort compared with its previous Days Inn-like scale. The ground is covered with snow and blood. The air is thick with smoke from the fire pits. You can turn any direction and only see more Winterfell. It’s easy to feel like you’ve somehow wandered into Westeros.

The Winterfell expansion is just a small example of how every element of the production was heightened this year in an effort to “not f— it up.” Scenes that normally might take a day to film now took several. “[Camera] checks take longer, costumes are a bit better, hair and makeup a bit sharper — every choice, every conversation, every attitude has this air of ‘This is it,’” Clarke says. “Everything feels more intense. I had a scene with someone and I turned to him and said, ‘Oh my God, I’m not going to do this ever again,’ and that brings tears to my eyes.”

Lena Headey, who plays Cersei Lannister, agrees: “There was a great sense of grief. It’s a huge sense of loss, like we’ll never have anything like this again.”

More tears, like during the table read.

You know, Harington will actually reveal why he cried that second time.

“The second time was the very end,” Harington says. He’s referring to when the cast reached the last page of episode 6, and what the showrunners wrote there at the bottom.

“Every season, you read at the end of the last script ‘End of Season 1,’ or ‘End of Season 2,’” Harington says. “This read ‘End of Game of Thrones.’”



Press: The end of Game of Thrones: An exclusive report on the epic final season was originally published on Glorious Gwendoline | Gwendoline Christie Fansite

[elizabethrobertajones]

13x07 Watching Notes

Should probably not have multiple scenarios where I snark out loud and then the very next line of dialogue is that snark but innocently delivered.

Heyooo it’s not our Christmas cliffhanger though!

Expectations: It has literally just occurred to me right now sitting down to type out my expectations that this season's *entire* main plot so far has been "the spawn of satan is cuter than we expected".

I'm still trying to wrangle the idea of how you get hours of Buckleming plot twists and slow exposition out of this, although introducing 18 different angles for them to tackle the problem and returning us to the AU world is a good start to have at least 4 plot threads going and hey I feel like this episode is supposed to be a breather for having too many Jack episodes in a row which makes it even funnier that they're gonna have to deal with the absence of something but who knows maybe he will show up before episode 9. If not they may genuinely be tricked into considering narrative negative space in some form or another, at least by the actual omission of Jack from the episode, despite the fact it has to be about him.

There's like at least 3 individual ways each arc might go terribly, and I'm typing this as pre-yoga thoughts while trying to do my NaNoWriMo and I watched Brooklyn 99 already this morning, and essentially I'm pretty much just bracing against "Oh god this new sleep pattern is the worst and it has ruined nearly every episode this season for me" migraines. So I'm just gonna be super chill because the stress of this ridiculous bed at 8pm awake at 5am thing is killing me without bad writing on my favourite show.

So, instead of modelling a worst case scenario, here's a best case one: it's crowded, the pacing is bad, there's some bizarre lines of dialogue and no room for any character interaction and the sneak peek already showed us the sum total of Destiel interaction but in hindsight with the rest of the episode that's actually a plus, and aside from that there's no rape or catastrophic bad decisions or characterisation that just makes our guys look like idiots because the villains aren't that smart and they're still outwitting them or something. Cas wasn't even mentioned in the episode description if I recall and I would like to think that is because he gets Buckleminged in the way where they forget he exists so he's in 2 scenes and just kinda stops at some point and that's the last we hear of him for a few episodes but at least nothing happened to him :P

(It HELPS that the bad decision of the year seems like it should be Jack and Kaia ganging up in 13x09 and this is just a plot filler episode where they can't blow everything up from sheer incompetence, since the main plot is still Jack, and all Buckleming can do is escalate stuff but not so much we find Jack, so they're mostly running free with Lucifer, Michael and Asmodeus on the playground they've been permitted to keep them distracted. On the other hand, that does not lend itself towards 'storytelling structure' whatsoever. So I may derive some fun from mentally re-writing this episode as it goes as well.)

-

Hi I'm back and I have tea and preemptive paracetamol and look I not do crap like this lightly but the only thing wrong with me is sleep and yoga but glug glug glug down the hatch, I'm not fucking around, migraine. I swear to god if I even see a HINT of you...

-

I should also mention that my only prep for this episode was watching Tall Tales last night with my mum because we're lightly re-watching season 2 and I thought you know what look how far that fucker has come that he's just one of the show's regular directors now or something. I forgot that completely this morning so I'm amending my expectations (it WAS annoyingly early in the day) to add that Speight hasn't directed a Buckleming yet but I'm interested to see how he handles it.

-

The episode starts with Mary cheerfully punching Lucifer at least 3 times in the face. I am still extremely proud of her for doing that but overall disappointed that it's led to her banishment to be a Buckleming character this season, which has been a fast way to ruin characters.

We get the entire first minute of the recap in Buckleming POV, aka they write the corny villains - and specifically a lot of Asmodeus point of view, his summary of the situation and what needs doing, having graciously inherited this throne, and comments on where Lucifer is as a sort of trailing off, well that's not my concern if he's gone. Only at the minute mark does the recap flip around to something genuinely ABOUT Jack as we've been seeing him, rather than trying to sell Jack as woooo Lucifer's scaaary son. Suddenly Jack's own identity crisis and him leaving.

Maybe it's just because they were trimming for time, but they cut the "all of you" from "I know I'm going to hurt you" but they also left the focus on Sam. I am mostly amused that by removing the clarification - which has been a theme of the season - it reduces that moment to a bare minimum surface layer, as if to say bye bye writing depth hello random action.

-

I had a burgeoning theory last year from one episode or another that pretty much everyone is lampooning Buckleming while letting them get on with writing their stuff, and trying to run loops around them in basically any other way.

-

There was something going on on screen involving a lot of stock footage while I was digging around in my bag looking for my 3DS assuming this was gonna be a Lucifer scene. I still think they're softening him up to kill him, but that's something I have to hope. One of the other non-redemption options is that they need to make him at least halfway manageable if he is gonna end up working with Cas or something. There is something vaguely appropriate matching Buckleming dialogue to Lucifer melodramatics, but unfortunately I really can't give these writers or that character much of a chance so while I'm happy to let them take him to play with over on their bit of the story like a chew toy to keep them off the stuff I like, it is annoying this is all the canon of the show I like >.>

-

One or the other of Buckleming really really dislikes God and organised religion though, and that does often lend the interesting thing to an episode where for some reason as soon as religion is involved the writing actually gets halfway decent.

One thing Lucifer says that catches my interest is his idea the universe is written without irony, when tbh that has literally been his downfall in season 5, and in general the universe is ironic to the WINCHESTERS to whom the universe is actually happening to, and there's the whole Dean is the centre of the universe thing, and THEN there's Billie's line about how sometimes the universe is poetic, coupled with how Dean got Cas back entirely through dramatic irony. I can't remember if Chuck commented on dramatic irony. Anyway Lucifer sucks, the story doesn't happen to him and he doesn't have the resources to read it. Metatron *thrived* on that sort of thing.

-

I like the visual of Michael standing with the sun behind him - it gives him absolutely the divine look he'd love to have, and I just wish he didn't have randomly shirtless Lucifer taking up some of that visual. If someone doesn't make a gifset chopping Lucifer out to just enjoy that image, I will make one, perhaps.

Something else to enjoy about this: they locked Mark P in some sort of medieval torture device and no matter how comfy you try and make it, there's obvious limits to that, so I will enjoy that he had to do that.

-

Michael sees that Lucifer is scared of being locked up and caged, which actually is... accidentally or not... a pretty clever callback, although it wouldn't have killed them to have Michael deduce this on screen, because in 9x18 Dean - Michael's vessel - deduces that Gadreel - a blatant Lucifer parallel in many respects while obviously not in many many others - is terrified of being caged again.

Of course that exchange is one of the single most fascinatingly well-acted exchanges of the entire show which on my umpteenth viewing still knocks me completely flat so it's not a FAIR comparison, but it is an interesting one.

-

I like that Michael think that the main universe is already paradise - in comparison to his shithole, definitely, because it still has pretty stock footage. Thematically interesting since obviously paradise is a bit of an issue with what people want...

-

LOL Wanek's ridiculous "concrete bunker" set... The camera pulls back and there's a massive Jesus on the wall and Lucifer's hanging behind him screeching and it's like... That is an inanimate lump of wood and I can see it rolling its eyes at you.

In the earlier moments out here in the AU we saw the church from 8x23 poking up out of the rubble, and whether this is the same one or not NOW, because I think it was a bit too buried to be this one, it conjures the memory of 8x23, and that one was interesting specifically because Jesus wasn't there - the cross had only his hands and feet remaining and the rest had been torn down. Sam was inserted into that empty space because he was doing the big heroic world-saving sacrifice that from one direction of pure irony the episode was named after (since he decided not to do it/the real motives for his sacrifice were way more interesting than him going through with it heroically anyway etc) but it was another Sam and Jesus moment, like in 5x22 where he more straight-forwardly sacrificed himself.

(And jeeze you watch one episode with the guy and now I can't get him out of my head - remembering in 9x18 Gabriel snarking about how he died for their sins and then making one of the few Jesus references on the show. Jesus is usually extremely absent from this show, so actually having him on screen is very interesting)

Anyway I am pretty sure this is almost entirely to remind Lucifer what a great big fucking drama queen he is being about this all and of course he's sacrificing for nothing.

-

Blah blah promo scene.

They have the photo of Jack from Mia's security camera which means no one has snapped a cute picture of him on their phone yet, Cas included. Disappointing.

-

Now, I'm pretty hesitant to get into characterisation in BL episodes, and Dean just generically wryly comments on how powerful Jack is which could mean anything but Sam then says he might be covering his tracks and then Cas, who has to be written sympathetic to Jack, comes through the door saying that it could mean Jack is in trouble with the various forces that want to control him. Sam's comment coupled with Cas's interruption seems to make it much more likely that Sam's comment is to be taken as vaguely unnerved/suspicious of what Jack can do, and that he's doing things like that Dean implies. That Jack learned so fast he might be able to cause a fair amount of destruction but conceal it from them and if they're trying to track him, Sam is expecting destruction.

-

Dean also came from the kitchen with coffees so why is Cas coming from the back of the Bunker... I'm gonna have to assume he was until just now lounging around in Dean's bed and Dean was like I better go get coffee and help Sam and Cas was like yeah but thanks for the 'sorry your son ran away' sex i feel a lot better and Dean was like no problem babe, and probably gave Cas one of those ridiculous shoulder nudges in the most no homo way ever before he got up to find where they threw his underwear an hour earlier, and Cas just kinda chilled while Dean was getting the coffee so as not to be suspicious by piling in on Sam after taking the exact same length break from the search but then they fucked it up and still managed to enter the scene within 30 seconds of each other.

Yeah, that's probably it.

-

I just saw the list of guest stars wander by and took 3 emergency gulps of my tea at that combo of Osric and for some reason DHJ because file that under genuinely unexpected :P

-

PS: I know we knew Kevin would be back this year but the fact I managed to find Kevin thematic stuff in the last 2 episodes in a row still feels important to me as storytelling rather than foreshadowing.

-

Anyway Cas tries to tell Dean the angels don't like him, and Dean volunteering to go with him because "i could go with you" is a thing and they keep doing it to each other and ow

-

Blah blah we could work a case. Are you serious? I really seriously hope this is not literally Buckleming's thought process about wtf do we do with Sam and Dean this episode after establishing maybe 4-5 other plotlines we need to handle away from them. I hope it turns out to be directly main plot related, whatever they stumble on, but we already now have them in a position where any involvement with the main stuff will be them stumbling on it or it coming to them. See above: ways in which the main characters are automatically made to be stupid. Subtle things, like not being able to imagine a way in which Sam and Dean are resourceful enough to even start to find Jack which doesn't involve googling things.

I mean we have no clue what you're doing with this random witch seeming case, why can't you bring a detail foreward if it's from the main plot to give us a clue. And if it's not, tell us something connected to it which will at least make Sam and Dean interested in it as a lead? Even if they're not right about why, put them on the trail because they're good at their jobs!

-

Anyway hi Asmodeus? As soon as we clear the promo scene etc I start assuming everyone is Asmodeus

I mean, in this case it literally is. but you can't trust anyone these days.

He needs to have his equivalent scene to sitting around in the Bunker googling, which, which is to say, the same type of minions who brought Crowley or Lucifer news are now coming toadying in to tell Asmodeus news, and the only difference is his name is harder to spell.

He's trying to do the same thing reaching out to Jack that we saw Lucifer trying to do last season, to Dagon. There is always the possibility that Asmodeus just isn't powerful enough to get into Jack's head from this extreme range when he has no idea where he is. Loser.

This minion seems to be mistakenly labelling Jack as "the Jack", maybe not as a mark of respect but more misunderstanding what he is, that he's not a thing, that that's his name...

-

Asmodeus asks who's protecting Jack, and cut to the image of Jesus again. I don't know about him, but tbh it could just be that Jack is protecting HIMSELF and they've massive underestimated him to do that. Jesus on this show represents a lot more of the personal autonomy saving yourself thing.

Also hey as long as we're not seeing Jack, we're getting that gosh darned hole in the narrative that he represents while he's missing. Is this actually a lesson in subtlety?

-

Michael meanwhile is enjoying tormenting Lucifer some more because blah blah sole purpose in life and what do you even do when you win.

Lucifer appears to have claimed to be a god in the SPN verse and Michael's like, here you're pathetic, and I'm like, mate, he was pretty pathetic in the main SPN universe too

-

There's some cool crosses on the walls which are trying to help, bringing light into this church.

-

Yeah where is Mary anyway - I wasn't gonna ask, but then Lucifer seemed to imply that Michael was keeping her around.

I mean sheesh the easiest way to get Mary around is to just have her in the scene still lurking but then film it as if it's almost entirely from her eyeballs POV if she doesn't have anything else to be doing right now - having her witnessing this theatre as the person from the main SPN world who's come over here.

-

KEV

-

Awwww he's gone a wee bit off the rails in this world, seeing as he'd have had to be helping Michael and reading tablets the entire time and also the entire world appears to be destroyed.

-

I don't know why Lucifer's having a personal reaction to Kevin unless I totally forgot something but they were literally never in the same seasons as each other although weirdly both in 11x21 so obviously must just be angels would know all the prophetsand which one was currently active... Maybe he's just surprised that in the AU Kevin survived even longer than he did in the supposedly better world.

Well there aren't any Winchesters in this one and Lucifer always underestimates them, in this case positively re: likelihood of getting Kevin killed :P

-

Oh great they're powering down Lucifer a bit. Well that should make him much more irritating.

I mean mostly because everything makes him irritating.

But it means the show wants him around some more but they can't have him at full power because it's just inconvenient so now they're finding a reason to water him down so they can have him around dragging his heels and complaining. I suppose it might make some comparisons to Cas, who's on a smidgen of left-over grace, but again, see also: eye rolling wooden Jesus, there's no way you can redeem Lucifer and not by comparing him to Cas.

Metatron got some sort of treatment but he was nowhere near like Cas even when he was done being redeemed and he still had to be killed off doing a heroic thing rather than let him stick around.

I'm just grinding my teeth and I already got part of the way through the next scene but UGH

-

So hey thinking of random versions of other characters why is DHJ's magnificent facial hair making a cameo return role on this side of the interdimensional nosense? You can't just grow a beard and start hunting witches on the down low on the winchesters' turf.

I'm assuming including DHJ's names in the credits was specifically some sort of nonsense now

specifically monsters going around looking like other things.

Maybe it was a shapeshifter Ketch punched a few weeks ago. It's only been a few weeks since he died, you know.

Maybe it's Asmodeus.

Maybe it's maybelline

The plot reason for the beard had better be hilarious.

-

I like Daniella the Beret Witch. For some reason I thought she looked tons like the witch Sam and Dean were looking at on the CCTV but when I went back to look I actually spotted her in the background watching them and waiting to make her move, and she doesn't look like the one on the CCTV at all so I guess my brain clocked her and filed her away because she was sitting around in a huge scarf, sunglasses and a beret and my brain didn't want me to not pay attention to her in case she was useful.

-

Kevin's weirdly pristine but still grey hoodie is making me giggle. He looks like the AU has barely touched him and Michael's even dirty and ragged.

I'm not sure I even want to touch random morality discussions from Buckleming. Lucifer says Michael is pure evil, Kevin says "aren't you Satan?" and Lucifer really hasn't done anything ever to make us actually want to root for him. Like sure Michael is the much worse bigger bad in the show's rankings but that doesn't make Lucifer less quanitifiably evil. Michael's way more complex because Lucifer is the big cartoon evil that Sam had to originally fear, the "what if I am actually evil" character mirror that obviously Sam isn't but it meant Lucifer needed no character complexity other than whiny manipulative interpretations of how he'd been mistreated where he could protest he had a side. Michael is waaaay more complex just in the like 2 episodes he actually talks in season 5 because he's "what if Dean was the big bad" and he's not evil, he's just 100% black and white morality rigid "good" in the sense of punishing evil, to the point of not questioning an order to kill his brother, and not even having a particularly "cool motive still murder" approach like Cain, but literally just like well okay then I guess I will kill my brother. How to make DEAN evil, or to personify the darkness that lives in him.

I mean I am massively simplifying but dear lord Buckleming if you read my notes this is the baseline direction you need to be writing these characters from and I am trying to HELP.

I am genuinely feeling like you're mistaking "apparent fan favourite because they make a lot of memes about him, Lucifer" as "this must mean people genuinely like him because he's Lucifer" and any possible reason I would find him interesting as a villain who was held up to just kinda exist and be himself doing his awful things contrasted to Michael who was just around existing and doing his awful things, is all just draining away down the toilet. Like you've got Lucifer lodged in there and you're flushing and flushing around him >.>

Anyway I'm going to take this entire scene as 100x more ironic than it was probably originally intended to be, that Kevin is not exactly right about Michael (and lol, Michael being the Dean parallel just kinda using Kevin all the time for random spells and always having him on the hook for doing things for them) but he's sure not wrong about Lucifer, Lucifer protesting Michael is evil because he's mistreating him and has destroyed this planet sure isn't WRONG but it's not a "so therefore I must be right"

And I kind of think the level of subtlety this writing is at is that "Michael is a dick and therefore Lucifer looks better in comparison"

But that's not how any of this works

*insert Jesus eyeroll*

-

*pats poor overworked manic AU!Kevin's hair*

I wonder if he's actually going to be able to do it

it would be HILARIOUS if they waste Lucifer's grace on this

-

Hey he did it, I'm proud of you AU!Kev. He always manages to do the thing :P

Okay not good that Lucifer has just been thrown back because A: Mary is still trapped over there, I assume for the much more important emotional arc stuff to do with rescuing her especially in the parallel to getting Cas back and all this stuff for Sam's arc and all

But UGH the writing of Lucifer is just really annoying me on so many levels and punting him back into the main SPN universe depowered and humbled by his brother, just annoys me so much.

Like I don't know how much more less enthused I have to be about Lucifer having struggles.

Boo hoo

-

Last season Dean got mistaken for homeless after he got hit with the memory spell, and was offered cash to make him go away.

he handled it considerably better than Lucifer.

I am just gonna assume this random woman is Asmodeus.

Lucifer probably ought to go grab that cash he was offered...

-

Oh wait here's Asmodeus, torturing some poor bloke called Karl who apparently works at the motel from last week.

I'm impressed they managed to track Jack that far, tbh

The question is, is there an actual memo that the Winchesters are camped in an old, heavily warded, impossible to map or locate MoL bunker, or is that something you only find out after you tail them for a bit? I mean Jack might not be there any more either but it would be a start :P

I feel extra skeevy about this scene because Asmodeus is being a total moron for starters by not checking Karl's level of clued in to this, and so he's this white plantation owner coded guy in his shiny white suit, torturing a black guy who isn't even on the same level as him for info he doesn't have, and could in no way be resonably expected to know. So it's doubly cruel. Although in some respects Asmodeus's coding makes this gratuitous violence a commentary, just like Buddy and Dave being collosal douches to women in the last few episodes was called out in many ways simply by their existence and coding as collosal douches.

Still not nice to watch on screen, especially without even more specific reference to Asmodeus's doucheyness because the stupidity of this dialogue is not helping.

Like did the minions just bring Karl to him and say hey we tracked the Winchesters and Jack this far, he might know more?

Like...

This is the sort of basic intelligence test fail here, that they're not over-thinking this scene in the specific details that you need to not have your main villain parade around displaying total idiocy over.

Like why the Winchesters would book into a motel under "Sam and Dean Winchester and Jack the Nephilim" and then Karl would know that and know what that means.

You can't just drag a normy into the Hell Main Office and torture them for info about Jack when they have no clue who that is.

He literally

can shapeshift

into anything

Go to the Stampede Motel, turn into a pretty girl in a low cut top, and lean on the motel check in desk until you know what you were after.

I'm no longer impressed they found Karl, I'm AMAZED.

-

Why did they kiiiiill him

-

Lol Asmodeus is so hammy

what's he sensing

Has he figured out Lucifer is back?

-

Meanwhile: Sam and Dean voluntarily go to a creepy cabin in the woods with a witch. This is not quite as stupid as Asmodeus was just being.

-

I am loving the plot development that David Hayden Jones has returned to the show as himself to find Rowena. Like dammit, you were a really cool character I had no interaction with but we coulda had some screen magic for all you know. You may or may not be in this episode as a surprise appearance which as Lizzy said putting MY name in the credits is the "hey it's that guy" fuckery to distract from the fact there's some bigger fuckery at foot (like... aside from the fact I was back to back with OSRIC FUCKING CHAU) because you don't *just* randomly put my very recognisable name in the credits at the start of the episode with Osric unless it's because something's up. So heeey here I am, I'm looking for Rowena, because dangit Ruthie deserves another chance to be in this show.

-

Daniella is also really slow to realise that Sam just said she was going to be bait. It took until Dean repeated it for her to realise.

-

She's really pretty though.

-

She starts choking like several moments before the gas hits her

-

... is that DHJ?

-

I mean we're getting a close up on his face but I literally. Do. Not. Recognise. Him.

I remember rambling at some point in my watching notes in season 12 when his face was being particularly hilarious after I'd seen con photos of DHJ that Ketch is one of the most effective character disguises I've ever seen for an actor's face. TBH it's the same weird different face thing I get from Alex Calvert - that he's all clean shaven and filmed as a wee nougat child in the show but he has an instagram of unrecognisable smouldering glamour shots, often with scruff. DHJ has a beard and that's his face, and part of the Ketch look was being clean shaven and crammed in a tight collar which is an incredibly British upper class twit look, and even in other clothes later the illusion lasted... But add a beard and stop grooming his hair and he just turns into some other person entirely.

-

Ah well, Dean gets to punch DHJ with Ketch's accent again which must be satisfying for him.

-

Did they take DHJ back to the Bunker? Really?

-

Oh he doesn't have the tattoo

LOL he's his "twin" "brother"... Obviously.

Yeah okay whatever you say, DHJ.

-

elizabethrobertajones Hey what if DHJ was actually Rowena

mittensmorgul oh god, don't give them ideas

-

ALSO if you have an "evil twin brother" you would generally assume that this sort of thing would happen a lot and you'd try and clarify sooner? I bring up my twin like every other time I talk about myself.

Also this is a ridiculous concept I refuse to engage with

-

I mean, thematically, wowsers. Fits right in with Buddy and Dave and things that look like other things

-

ALSO DHJ has been going around torturing witches so it's not like he's been the good twin

-

ALSO WHY IS HE HERE?

-

Apparently he's a hitman hunter

-

I suppose it's kind of like Bela but I do find it really strange.

Like how does anyone even know to hire him if no one knows monsters exist? Who is pointing him at these things?

Insinuating himself into situations like Bela to get work maaay be a way to do it, like if the Winchesters showed up in town and immediately told the sheriff what was up and then offered their fee as contractors or something. Pfft.

Pfft.

-

And then he's like "we hunters" because he's trying to bond with them or something

-

To google!

-

It's convenient he kept a beard his whole life

-

Oh okay Sam stole hard drives from the BMoL and is using their actual data.

-

I like the side by sides of their report cards where the prop people literally did them backwards from each other. "*More effort required!" they say about Alexander, and "Excellent work!" for Arthur.

-

Dean isn't buying it

-

LOL they dumped Ketch's corpse into the waste canal.

Do you want a haunted Bunker? That's how you get a haunted Bunker.

-

Anyway Dean is like NOPE don't believe it and Sam's like... there's so much proof... and then he goes in to question DHJ again and DHJ is like... you literally saw me get shot in the head last season, you don't trust that? And Sam's like no I had to concede that Dean had a point that we really can't trust anything and I guess Cas did just randomly come back or something and we have horrific problems with the white men on this show coming back again for completely random reasons that make no sense so you had better bloody well actually be re-introducing Rowena into the narrative even more dramatically than the warning Billie gave about the red-headed witch that Dean probably didn't tell me about now come to think of it, but I'd still like to see her again because we had a sort of weird thing we never really talked about going on...

-

Also are they keeping DHJ in the store room that showed up for the pencil scene but isn't the other store room? It looks like a different part of the Bunker repurposed.

-

Sam mis-reads Ketch, maybe because he never knew him as well as Mary or even Dean saw him. DHJ is like dude I played him for a year and psychoanalysed him and his crush on Dean in multiple interviews, so trust me when I tell you all his character exposition.

The stuff about being loyal to Heaven - I mean the BMoL - and being a company man echo what Ishim said about old Cas in 12x10

-

DHJ like, I did so much character work in those interviews, and I never got a chance for Ketch to be sympathetic so let me offer some more insight on him now you have me in the worst interview chair ever.

Also, don't go into pop culture journalism, Sam

-

"If he were here, he'd admit regret to some of the things he did to your family"

Yeah unless you have a magic twin link (well... not unlikey tbh with random ass canon pulls) you're either Arthur Ketch or just DHJ enjoying doing interviews about Ketch to a twisted and weird level and I'm sort of gonna have to do an intervention on this for him.

-

CAS

-

NEW PLAYGROUND

-

New angel!

mittensmorgul dumas? that's the name the superwiki has linked, but her page is blank

elizabethrobertajones Heh 3 musketeers again first in the off-brand nougat now that

-

"If we had him he wouldn't be imprisoned he'd be put to work"

SHE WANTS NEW ANGELS

I don't freakin blame her

But Jack shouldn't be "put to work" either - he would have to want to do it.

Awww Cas getting protective over Jack before I'm done typing that of course this means Jack would be forced to do it and the angel says "No other choice" because of course she does.

As usual heaven isn't comic book evil but its purposes in the name of "good" are super shady. Even if Jack was pure evil himself, Heaven enslaving a powerful nephilim for its own purposes would be dodgy.

-

Btw I am still torn about Cas's compulsion to care about Jack but on the other hand I am really enjoying Cas generally existing and being alive - and wait a minute she didn't even ask about how he was doing that - so I'm pretty much enjoying the surface level about Cas and Jack right now. Because of course I see the good in Jack that he DOES need protecting, so however Cas ended up on this, at least he is doing the right thing and taking the right stance.

-

"Castiel, he's not your pet. He belongs to all of us."

-

Uhoh, Cas is probably going to get grabbed.

*surprise*

Hey he did pretty well considering he's fighting 3 angels and is much weaker than them.

-

Oh boy, here's Lucifer. This is gonna go great.

-

Does Cas or Lucifer need to start this with the "you're supposed to be dead/in the AU" first?

-

Lol, Cas is the first person in this entire damn episode to actually ask a relevant question, and it's one we already know the answer to

*waves a little flag for Cas though*

Hey and then Lucifer asks about Cas being alive, what do you know.

He then calls Cas "cowboy" and pretends like Cas wouldn't kick his ass.

I am pretty happy about the "cowboy" thing :P

-

Lucifer has found a tan jacket somewhere, specifically one that looks like the one Jack was wearing but maybe a bit thicker, more like Cas's new coat. He's trying to edge in on this family and I can only assume this is not even a veiled metaphor for the douchey biological father wanting to be all interested in his son's business.

Lucifer in a tan jacket makes me think wolf in sheep's clothing.

-

He does, however, shelve the issue of child custody for now, and he appears to be genuinely freaked out enough about Michael to make that a priority and tell Cas about it, because if you want help against Michael, we've had 2 references to Team Free Will in short succession and that was a phrase coined specifically to spite Michael...

I don't think Lucifer should be allowed in, remotely, because it's become a family term, but the imagery is interesting anyway that he is trying to leech off the success of TFW to accomplish the goals he could never do himself. Especially because it was blatant in season 5 to everyone but him that Michael would kick his butt since he already did it once before and nothing has changed, 12x12 confirmed Michael would kill him slowly, and now meeting an AU Michael, he discovers that yep Michael sure is stronger than him, even when he was the last strong archangel left, and then Michael took that from him...

-

None of this, however, makes Lucifer sympathetic or good, just self-interested in not dying, and who is better at not dying than Cas?

I mean he wasn't even expecting to see Cas here, I guess he was going to a heaven portal to try and get them to listen?

-

LOL Kingdom Beer sign over Cas and Lucifer having a chat in a bar.

Cas looks Weary.

"I came back from the dead to deal with THIS? Please take me back to yesterday when it was fun kinky cowboy times with Dean."

-

I'm glad Cas isn't remotely friendly to Lucifer and is quick to remind him about how killed he got last time they hung out. Lucifer continues to be whiny and annoying about it all, unrepentant for killing Cas over petty nonsense.

-

LOL Lucifer is like "this Michael is much more powerful"

buddy. dude. go watch 12x12 then get back to me about how whooped your butt would have been. I mean go look at that lovely painting of him whooping your butt that was in 12x12 and unrelated to the fact he had that fucking lance in the first place.

-

Anyway he's trying to convince Cas to use his influence on Jack to get them to be the ultimate team up but they're fundamentally incapable of doing that because they're the 2 rival dads for Jack and blatantly symbolically being shown as that in these costumes, and that's one of the huge thematic things.

-

Cas like "You are the Weakest Link, goodbye."

-

I love Cas being so snarky, so maybe Lucifer being around is good in some respects, that it makes Cas this snarky because he has something to bounce off as awful and despised as Lucifer. Not even Crowley got THIS dismissive treatment, because they had emotional baggage that was of a whole different sort, whereas Cas and Lucifer have been opposite mirrors the whole time since season 4

-

Lucifer is emphasising how he and Cas are the big cosmic powers around here, with Jack. Hm...

Lol Cas is like "I'm calling my guys who deal with these things" and Lucifer bangs his head on the table in despair. I guess this is like the boy who called wolf except that instead of calling wolf he was literally going around eating all the sheep and was banned from being a shepherd for life and locked away and got out and ate more sheep and was locked away and got out and ate more sheep and got locked away and THEN came back like oh hi something's gonna eat all our sheep.

-

Lucifer then says Cas needs him and that he needs Cas and they all need Jack.

So Um I guess "Need" is The Worst Word right now :P

-

"Jack. Your son's name is *Jack*" *pats Cas's hair*

Pfft themes "is he a chip off the old block?" "thankfully, no. he seems to favour the mother"

Theeeeeeeeemes

-

Cas squinting when he lies - I don't think that's his lying tell because he does it too much, but perhaps uncertainty. The fact he squinted so much in the reintroduction huggy scene last episode feels to me less like lying and more like no clue what was going on and how mad he had to be about his humans sacrificing for him to come back.

-

Laughing at all their labelled phones lying around permanently charging. I think this is the first proof we've ever seen that they have a Bobby phone bank, but I can't imagine who would rely on the Winchesters to answer the phone when they need proof of ID :P They're like ALWAYS being abducted or disappearing on cases.

Or dying.

-

Okay so the phones are more just for their personal IDs for the cards THEY give out and they're just getting a call back from the motel for some reason, I suppose because Jack was with them (seriously. Dean gave the motel the name Jack? I have to assume Jack said his name before they could re-name him on the fly and so he was registered as a guest there as Jack the Nephilim because why the fuck not... Berens has a magic skill of un-fucking Buckleming canon but it seems Buckleming's skill is fucking up poor Davy's, in 12x13 and 12x17 and now here...)

ANYWAY jesus christ Asmodeus is stupid. "Evil Colonel Sanders" literally walked in and abducted Karl in person which means that his stupid ass questions weren't even because his minions brought him the guy and presented him in an idiotic way, but our shapeshifting villain wandered in and took Karl, himself in person with his own freaking face that the Winchesters KNEW and is extremely memorable, and took his prize.

...

DHJ better turn out to be Asmodeus even though I think their screentime overlapped and this makes no freaking sense since he has some established history wandering around attacking witches before they caught up with him.

-

I'd rather have a time plothole than a stupid plothole :P

-

Anyway DHJ is hanging out with them in the library eating a sandwich because... um

reasons?

At least he's in chains.

-

Oh my god I said that sarcastically moments before Sam said it sincerely and then pointed out there's no bathroom in the armoury

what the fuck

-

Like I said up top: as stupid as the villain is, your main characters have to be about as dumb as they are, either only just enough to outwit them, or more stupid if they get outwitted...

Poor Sammy, he was having such a fantastic season

-

Dean just straight up pretends Mary is phone when DHJ asks because why the heck would you monologue your sad life story to the bad guy, and give him emotional leverage over you? Especially when he ASKS because "Alexander" should have no knowledge of Mary or care about her, but then he also shouldn't know the DHJ interview details of Ketch's inner life.

-

YAY Dean and Cas are talking and Dean phoned Cas probably just to hear a sane voice because Cas is managing to weave around being Buckleminged, so far, possibly just because he was not in the opening half of the episode, and then this was a really important conversation they couldn't fuck up so probably got supervised.

-

elizabethrobertajones tee hee Cas standing by the gents to take a call from Dean wait hang on ... I'm not even being jokey I literally just had that moment in the chat with you :P *rewinds* Longing retcon Confirmed Oh dear that is hilarious I don't know if that's the moment you wanted me to see or not but I'm delighted :P

elizabethrobertajones Cas was standing away from Lucifer ready to take Dean's phone call and had to have walked off up to a minute before he called, but most likely in that time when Dean was like UGH I need to talk to Cas and hear the one sane voice in this episode and Cas was like... Brb I... have to use... the 'Gents' and got up and wandered off to take the call eat it, 12x10 and that "where's my phone" moment I mean Buckleming introduced it to fill a plothole so why should they not use it to cover more plotholes at their leisure

... did Speight know? I mean he coulda been like what the heckeroo, and added Cas getting the call and legging it from the table.

-

The only other option I can think of is Cas decided he may as well just get up to "go pee" because Lucifer is so annoying that pretending he needs to go to the loo buys him 5 minutes to let his migraine subside.

-

Also what the fuck DHJ was wandering around the bunker so he could use the bathroom. I am confused. Is this actually like... being hinted at. Like, "hey children, please remember who does and doesn't need to use the bathroom in this episode"

-

Omg

Cas like "I would *like* to see you too" is he literally pretending he and Dean were canoodling on the phone as a cover?

-

I hate everything

-

Anyway need/want blah blah I have been over that a lot lately :P Cas is using his DESIRE to see Dean to get help, by Lucifer saying he NEEDS Cas.

-

"Smooth was never your strong suit" oh my god Lucifer also thought Cas was pretending to be flirty too what is going on

why has this episode confirmed all the headcanons about Cas being the most shittiest phone sex guy ever

of all the things.

why.

-

DHJ wants to go because he misses being in on the action with the guys

-

Like. No, go take your sandwich and sit down.

-

Dean is sad about Cas always getting killed by Lucifer and stuff when he does stupid things.

-

Cas's "ugh stop talking Lucifer" face is a whole layer more existential misery than dealing with Crowley... I think he was secretly fond of Crowley or at least enjoyed hating him, whereas Lucifer is just EXHAUSTING.

He's needling Cas for attention.

-

LOL randomly Asmodeus as if Cas's headache wasn't bad enough, now we got thunder and lightning and very very frightening...

Pfft.

-

bahahaha Lucifer called Asmodeus the dim bulb

I mean he's not wrong, Asmodeus has been completely idiotic all episode. And of course, narratively, his "evil plans" are just self-interest which will endanger the entire world because even if Lucifer is a twat, he has a point about the coming danger of Michael, and Asmodeus just refuses to see the danger, which is all kinds of various political commentary, and using his era aesthetic to say this kind of thinking is such a throwback...

-

I think this might be the most confused Cas has ever been about if he should stab someone or not - if he actually WANTS to defend Lucifer. Not really, but Asmodeus seems like a bigger problem because at least Lucifer isn't trying to kill him.

-

I hope this just randomly gets Asmodeus killed.

Or Lucifer

-

Asmodeus just called Lucifer "screwable"... do they even know what they said? :P

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EEEP there was a Margiekugel sign and it just flickered off

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"Nick's bar" pfft because Lucifer?

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It seems like Sam and Dean are too late and Asmodeus already made off with everyone?

I hope Cas is okay

being held captive by that idiot seems like a fate worse than death. You're going to get villain monologues all day.

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Anyway fight fight fight

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Good fight.

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Where did DHJ even come from?

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that was a ridiculous nonsense about how he escaped. I also will die if he took Dorothy's bike and not his own left stashed there. Also he nodded at Dean like hey you didn't cavity search me like you should have, which... Is he actually Ketch?

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He's actually Ketch

Of course that means Dean knows him very well and trusted his gut instinct on knowing Ketch to prove that he was not, in fact, the actor David Hayden Jones, chillaxing on set and being weirdly cheerful about being beaten up by the Winchesters.

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Pfft he used Rowena's charm to get alive again

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Well she better be fine if they're gonna use her like this.

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"Is she?"

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LOL Ketch ninja'd out of there

Oh good it wasn't Dorothy's bike

Considering how they use Rowena, DON'T use Mary, etc I'd have taken Dorothy's bike as a personal insult. I guess Ketch rode his over to the Bunker before 12x22.

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I mean at least this means Ketch remembers he got shot and then also he revived in a sewer where he belonged because he is garbage.

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Wait. He set up this whole thing in like a month or so TOPS since he got shot? If he’s been chasing witches has he even had TIME for a side business?

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Oh boy, Asmodeus using Cas's voice to talk to Dean.

BAD HELLO DEAN.

That "see you soon" is also way too cheerful. It should be as much of a tip off as Cas begging Dean to come help him in the previous call.

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I hope Dean sees through it.

Though it's so Buckleming-y I don't think people should be mad if he doesn't because this was them doing a smart!Dean episode.

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PFFT of course they team up - colonialism from all sorts of fun angles!! The ultimate trashy white guys in suits team up.

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Thanks Buckleming!

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Man, I need a whole pot of detox tea now. I don't even have closing thoughts.

[magicaltrapslover-blog]

Compiled Web Forums On Magical Traps (Mahou Shounen)

Greetings!

I've Googled and Binged this search term and constantly end up with scattered partial and often mislabeled references. I'm seeking any listings of boys/men who transform into Magical-Girls/Traps in Anime or Manga to compile a complete one. If anyone can direct me to such listings I'd be most grateful.

Thanks for any tips!

Location: Two Steps from Hell.

Kampfer - I'm a bit skeptical to calling this a true magical girl show but it has elements of that. It's largely a comedy.

Gonna be the Twin-Tail! - I actually haven't watched this show so I can't provide any thoughts.

There's also a show this season that is what you're looking for but I can't recall its name. . .

Ohg, there's also KoreZom (known affectionately as Korean Zombie Desk Car to fans) which is more a parody of the magical girl genre. It's not exactly a Magical-Girl/Trap thing but crossdressing (purposefully!) as one.

Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)

The one this season is Magical Girl Raising Project.

There's also Is This A Zombie? which may be the most infamous case since he still looks like a guy but is dressed like a magical girl.

Location: Frisco, TX

EmbraceMe wrote:

I don't know if the moderators will want us to post information/thoughts on the shows but I know of two (maybe a bit more). In the case they do want us to avoid listing, I'll edit this post later.

It's fine. It's not like we see very many requests for "recommendations, so opinionate away! Back to top  

DuskyPredator It...it's not like I post for you or anything!

Location: Brisbane, Australia

No mention yet of Cute High Earth Defense Club Love!, a parody anime which has a group of boys transform into girly magical girl like forms?

As mentioned above there was Kampfer and Gonna be the Twin Tail which had gender swapping with a transformation. Plus the big gimmick mentioned of with the main character of Kore wa Zombieturning into a magical girl with the costume to get power, but still looking like a dude.

I might count some jokes in Baka Test of a male character an magical girl transformation (plus guy who looks like a girl). I can't remember if it specifically had some, but I know that there is some crossdressing cute boy character and parodies including magical girls in Ebiten, but someone else would have to confirm it. Not sure if you would count it, but Gatchaman Crowds has some similarities to magical girls, although a bit more shounen, and Rui is a male character who almost always dresses as a girl. Chuunibyou's second season had a male character dress up as a magical girl, being noted as pretty I think. The short form Himegoto has a lot crossdressing, a male character does get dressed as a magical girl. The title male character from Hayate the Combat Butler has been made into a magical girl before.

There are a few others I am aware of that have crossdressing but not necesarilly anything that looks like a magical girl, or another that has a magical girl like transformation sequence but does not end up looking particularly feminine. Back to top  

maxlance

Thanks to you all! Your recommendations are just the leads I'm looking for to create a complete summarized list of this niche genre so don't doubt how accurate your suggestions were! You're hitting in the ballpark! Thanks all! 

Back to top

Dessa

 loathe to admit it, since it was such a horrible change from the manga, and Sensei herself hated it as well, but Sailormoon Stars.

The male pop idols the Starlights transform into female Senshi (note that their original form is female, the male human forms are the false forms). Back to top  

Newbie9

I vaguely recall one where there's a guy who's being chased by enemies of a warrior princess who he's the reincarnation of but not sure if she was magical. Back to top

Chiibi

Dessa wrote:

I'm loathe to admit it, since it was such a horrible change from the manga, and Sensei herself hated it as well, but Sailormoon Stars.

The male pop idols the Starlights transform into female Senshi (note that their original form is female, the male human forms are the false forms).

Personally, I think the Stars anime arc was WAY better than the one in the manga. Everybody had more personality and the last battle was just amazing.

What's horrible about that change? Unless you're a yuri fan. Which I'm not.

Three women tricking EVERYONE into thinking they are a boy band simply by crossdressing makes zero sense....besides, that's the opposite of what girls like. lol  

Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo)

@OP: Since magical girl transformations are usually magical, are you interested in anime about boys that become female while they are magical girls? There are a couple manga titles (or perhaps more) fitting this description but in one of them the author never specifically reveals whether he actually becomes female or not. Back to top  

maxlance

Past wrote: @OP: Since magical girl transformations are usually magical, are you interested in anime about boys that become female while they are magical girls? There are a couple manga titles (or perhaps more) fitting this description but in one of them the author never specifically reveals whether he actually becomes female or not.

I'm avoiding from limiting the field and taking in the total concept that if the male appears to the public as a magic girl, whether via real transformation (finding surprisingly beautiful guy into magic girl henshin sequences like Twintails) or trapping it, it goes. Granted, there're more difficult plot reasons just why a guy would super-trap it though I do dimly recall reading from far back - and I'm sure the anime concerned was "Princess Knight" -- that one of its original concepts was a martial artist/swordsman boy who does Zorro trap style to evade any suspicion. (It harkens to my Eng Lit days when I learned the original Victorian-age manuscript of the "Blue Lagoon" novel had sibling main characters, not more conventionally palatable cousins...)

If there were a m-f counterpart to "1/2 Prince", that'd make one nice TG "henshin" show with more serious plots and deep characters; with VRMMO anime so hot I'm surprised this character device hasn't played out more by now like in Log Horizon. There're quite a few transgender henshin one scene gags in a few older anime that's very difficult to catch -- it'd mean literally viewing every anime made because such scenes were never "indexed" for the web. But whether via magic or VR, it'd like to see a TG henshin story played straight that would involve all kinds of personal and social complications than shy them.

Anyway thanks for the input!! Back to top

Past

Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo) 

maxlance wrote: Anyway thanks for the input!! When you said TG it made me think of Jun from Happiness! While I don't want to say that any fanservicey or silly show about magical girls with traps represents the transgender experience in any way, Jun is without a doubt a boy who'd rather be a girl. In one episode where Jun is magically transformed into a girl it basically answers the question "What would happen if the prettiest girl in school, who is actually a boy actually became a girl?" Besides how could we not mention Jun Watarase in this thread? One of the epic traps in anime before traps became a thing. Back to top  

maxlance

Past wrote: maxlance wrote: Anyway thanks for the input!! When you said TG it made me think of Jun from Happiness! While I don't want to say that any fanservicey or silly show about magical girls with traps represents the transgender experience in any way, Jun is without a doubt a boy who'd rather be a girl. In one episode where Jun is magically transformed into a girl it basically answers the question "What would happen if the prettiest girl in school, who is actually a boy actually became a girl?" Besides how could we not mention Jun Watarase in this thread? One of the epic traps in anime before traps became a thing.

Good tip! Your lead that Jun did a magical girl gig (if only briefly in a OVA) made the list! Personally, I really believe that was really meant as a trial balloon to such a spin-off... By real-life experience I can see a trap being so insufferably cute that he becomes as popular to boys as girls. I recall a mention in Brazil where the teen trap was a mall lizard who got treated to movies and free video parlor games by schoolboys and it was (supposedly) a totally platonic date thrill thing. I think we're going to see similar here as social tolerances keep rising. Also your mention also prompts me to wish a show with a kind of "magical-girl guy" secret/clueless alter-life romance angle to stir the pot with, or even a club of magical-girl traps (secretly of ages up and down the scale) who uniquely have other things to do besides bumping another off. Back to top

Newbie9

At least one in The Magical Girl Raising Project. New. Back to top

Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo)

Newbie9 wrote: maxlance wrote: or even a club of magical-girl traps (secretly of ages up and down the scale).

Works 4 me!! I think this is kind of what Mayo elle Otokonoko was supposed to be. A proposed anime series that never saw the light of day other than a PV that came with the opening song release. As far as I can tell it is either about a school comprised entirely of traps or has a trap club and permits male students to wear the girl's uniform but doesn't seem to have any sort of magical element.

Btw the song is totally cute and sung by the same person who sung the ending songs for other shows featuring traps such as Happiness! Otoboku and Steins;Gate.

Chuckbait wrote: At least one in The Magical Girl Raising Project. New.

Great catch! Thanks! La Pucelle about personified the ideal magical girl-guy philosophy. It's a shame La Pucelle skipped a Henshin sequence. (I'm seeking well done and tasteful guy into magic chick Henshin scenes on the side too.) I like Magical Girl Raising for bringing up the point that if the worlds inside anime/manga truly reflected their populations' sentiments and fantasies that there ought be a heck of lot more magical girl-guys than they portray. (Or maybe Kyubey doesn't know the sex switch trick like Favv does!  ) Back to top

maxlance

Past wrote: I think this is kind of what Mayo elle Otokonoko was supposed to be. A proposed anime series that never saw the light of day other than a PV that came with the opening song release. As far as I can tell it is either about a school comprised entirely of traps or has a trap club and permits male students to wear the girl's uniform but doesn't seem to have any sort of magical element.

Btw the song is totally cute and sung by the same person who sung the ending songs for other shows featuring traps such as Happiness! Otoboku and Steins;Gate.

Thanks for the really useful heads' up tip even though Mayo doesn't appear magical. It just seems peculiar to me that when yuri and yaoi and even sibsex are so pervasive in manga and anime that there's relatively so little dedicated work or even fan forums in the traps cuter than girls genre in general. Seems to me there's just as much meat for creative comedy and drama and offbeat variations there, especially when you include the VRMMO realm which kind of straddles reality and magical. (I have a gut feeling that SAO [and Log Horizon] willfully nipped any VR-trap storylines in the bud in the very first ep which I think was a mistake, as Magical Girl Raising shows can work well). An aside; I wish VR people educated people more that just attaching goggles to something optical doesn't make it "VR". There are pre-Xmas sales here in NYC of View-Masters and even binoculars being sold as VR devices.) Well, here's wishing for a anime trap convention OVA! Back to top

DuskyPredator It...it's not like I post for you or anything!

Location: Brisbane, Australia

maxlance wrote: Seems to me there's just as much meat for creative comedy and drama and offbeat variations there, especially when you include the VRMMO realm which kind of straddles reality and magical. (I have a gut feeling that SAO [and Log Horizon] willfully nipped any VR-trap storylines in the bud in the very first ep which I think was a mistake, as Magical Girl Raising shows can work well).

The second season of Log Horizon actually had something interesting with the character spoiler[Tetra]who could come as a surprise, but some like myself picked up the clues, that the characterspoiler[most like a magical girl, was originally a man]. Although the series kind of was always on the cusp of saying something. Back to top  

Newbie9 DuskyPredator wrote:

The second season of Log Horizon actually had something interesting with the character spoiler[Tetra] who could come as a surprise, but some like myself picked up the clues, that the character spoiler[most like a magical girl, was originally a man]. Although the series kind of was always on the cusp of saying something.

Yea, missed that! Luv s/he! Are VR traps like that way too flirty to really be straight? Back to top

maxlance

Greetings; I checked out DuskyPredator's Log Horizon tip and must say she-he is an interesting character, which brings up the fascinating psychology of how long and what a soul sealed up a different avatar over time will begin evolving into beyond their original personalities, maybe even becoming a new "backstory" to that character. To more directly answer Newbie, I'd guess the Log Horizon character in question was likely originally gay because I can't imagine someone else teasing and wildly flirting guys like that, though as I mentioned over time maybe that avatar and its social standing there will shape a new persona. Not really a magical girl-guy issue -- unless we have one trapped in Log Horizon to start with. VRMMO is the one "reality" way to have true magical girls and magical girl-guys. So the list goes on. Back to top

Errinundra Moderator

Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Posts: 4231 Location: Melbourne, Oz Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:49 pm

I've just watched this show. Birdy the Mighty has a school boy who shares his body with an alien female law enforcer. Normally he has the boy's appearance but, when necessary, transforms into the girl in order to deal with sundry villains. The show combines action and comedy. The transformations cause confusion for his family and his prospective girlfriend. They two personalities also hold internal conversations.

I haven't seen it yet, but I assume the remake - Birdy the Mighty Decode - has the same premise. Back to top    

ChibiKangaroo Birdy the Mighty is quite good. I'm not sure if it falls in this category just because i think boy + girl merging into one being or sharing a body is kind of its own thing, but it is similar.

Thanks for this head's up! Though not magic related the gender swapping aspect makes a list. Errinundra wrote: I've just watched this show. Birdy the Mighty has a school boy who shares his body with an alien female law enforcer. Normally he has the boy's appearance but, when necessary, transforms into the girl in order to deal with sundry villains. The show combines action and comedy. The transformations cause confusion for his family and his prospective girlfriend. They two personalities also hold internal conversations.

I haven't seen it yet, but I assume the remake - Birdy the Mighty Decode - has the same premise.

Thanks, a good mention, though not exactly a magical-girl theme, more like the "science girl" trap that's Twintails, but gender duality theme makes the honorable mention list. I'm kind of getting inspired to try doing a magical trap short myself, only I'm a lousy artist! Back to top

GoddessOtome I was gonna say La Pucelle from Magical Girl Raising Project.

Newbie9 GoddessOtome wrote: I was gonna say La Pucelle from Magical Girl Raising Project.

You mean Magical Girl RAZING Project!  

Happy New Year All!

I need help in an accurate translation for the titles of my listings for magical girl-guys and virtual girls/women. I'd appreciate any sage knowledge of whether the Japanese term "Mahou Shounen" actually literally translates out as either "male magical girls" or "males who transform into magical girls," and if there's a more accurate one please tip me. I found quite a few "male magical girls" are actually traps in magical girl guise which to me isn't quite the real deal though legit enough in topic.

Also for a parallel listing this topic has inspired, I'm seeking Japanese terms for "VR women who are men" and "VR trap" or "VR TG". I'm trying to discriminate in that you probably wouldn't qualify a male trapped as a female avatar in Log Horizon as actually being a trap which to me is more of a "lark adventure" situation (as originally happened in the 1st SAO ep) than a involuntary trapped "TG" situation as occurs in LH.

Thanks for any assist! Back to top

DuskyPredator It...it's not like I post for you or anything!

Joined: 10 Mar 2009 Posts: 11138 Location: Brisbane, Australia

Well "mahou shoujo" is literally "magic" and "girl", so "mahou shounen" should just be "magical boy". I think that I have seen it used to refer to a character like Chrono from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, who is really a male version of what the titular character is. I think that if a male character turned into a girl they would be a full magical girl. But I still feel tempted to call Ayumu a magical girl despite his gender not changing.

@DuskyPredator

Some things in regards to KoreZom, I don't think they referred to themselves as Magical Girls (mahou shoujo). Instead the term was "masou shoujo" and the English equivalent translation of it, from the fansubs I've seen, was Magiclad Girl. So, yes, he's not a magical girl in many senses since he just, err, wears their garments.

@maxlance

I don't know of any Japanese equivalence for the terms you're looking for but the term I've seen used in papers and such is "gender swapping*" so hopefully that will aid you in finding a Japanese equivalence of the term.

*This terms refers to playing as the opposite gender in games.

EmbraceMe wrote: @DuskyPredator

Some things in regards to KoreZom, I don't think they referred to themselves as Magical Girls (mahou shoujo). Instead the term was "masou shoujo" and the English equivalent translation of it, from the fansubs I've seen, was Magiclad Girl. So, yes, he's not a magical girl in many senses since he just, err, wears their garments.

Oh, you're just splitting hairs here.  

Ayumu *is* a magical girl in every sense of the term. He's got a bloody HENSHIN SEQUENCE. Back to top

maxlance Greetings all and thanks for the feedback!

Can those in the lingo know straighten me out on phase usage? Google Translate is almost useless in providing me what "trap" (as in crossdresser) is In Japanese, never mind the full term "Magical Trap", or "Virtual Woman Man" like a guy's fem-VR avatar in LH, unless they have to be made up which ought be fun. Maybe some another language might be plastic enough to possess such terms! My listing does distinguish between true biologically changed guys into real magical girls (like Twintails) and those becoming "magical traps." I am also coming around to accepting fully mind swapped magical girl dudes as the real deal (say a brother mind-swaps his sis's to kindle her magical bod) if the situation calls it, along with multiple personality magical girl traps as being legit as well. Another category I might consider splitting off are "techno-magical magical traps" as in Twintails, as opposed pure magic magical traps as La Purcell in Magical Girl Raising. Supposedly there's a Sailor Moon magical girl guy in the works but have to dig that out.

Thanks for your input! Back to top