#Ship Discourse

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for 'outing' someone for writing inc*st?

I (20F) am in a moderately large fandom that got popular during the pandemic. Most of the fic for this fandom is gen and platonic pairings, which is a rarity and fantastic. One of the most popular creators in the fandom puts out a ton of gen fics that I really loved. Unfortunately, I learned after that they write fics on a different account, and not just any fics, but inc*st. I'm not talking about found family. These characters are literal brothers in canon. I can't believe anyone would ship them together, much less this person. I unfollowed them and now, whenever I see anyone talking about how much they love this creator, I inform them about the alt account and their ships. Ignorance may be bliss, but I felt awful when I found out and realized I'd been supporting them for so long and I don't want anyone else to feel that way. But someone replied to one of my comments calling me the asshole, telling me I was outing the creator, and to mind my own business. AITA?

What are these acronyms?

[bewareofdeaddove]

Once you start harassing people over their tastes in fiction, you've gone too far.

You should not be sending anon hate.

You should not be telling people to kill themselves.

You should not be contacting people's family members, job, or school.

You should not be sending people gore.

You should not be telling people that they deserve their trauma.

You should not be attacking people over liking something fictional. At that point, you're the problem. Not the person making things you don't like, YOU. Harassment is never acceptable.

[bornofhumanhate]

If people would understand that fictional characters are not real and can’t consent and are simply objects for us to play with, things would be so much better for everyone.

So mentioning the age of consent when we’re talking about fictional ships is just dumb.

[enemywasp]

I'm so tired of Tiktok actually. Hello??? I was a proshipper as a kid, no one told me to be or even pushed that rhetoric on me I just shipped stupid ships for fun 😭 I didn't even know the word proship

[msnihilist]

[sparkling-pink-lemonade]

Saw a post of an anti saying that they are leaving AO3, as they are too uncomfortable to post their fics there now. The reason? They found out one of their long time readers was a proshipper, despite their fics having proship dni. And how "that includes silent readers too, I don't want you all looking at my content."

My brother in christ, you are posting on the fiction freedom site. The proshipping site. Dnis aren't god damn restraining orders. They are one tool in helping you display your boundaries. It's still on you to enforce your boundaries. You post something publicly, you forfeit your ability to regulate who can view your work. If you're obsessive enough, you can regulate who actually interacts with your work by stalking each person in the kudos list, comments, or bookmarks and then blocking snyone you don't like, but you do not get a say on who may silently read your posts. Not unless you private your work and only show it to specific people.

And if you don’t want proshippers to interact, get off the profic site.

[dead-pidoves-dirt-takes]

I’m literally begging y’all not to disclose your trauma in order to justify and validate your tastes in fiction.

The people who are or you fear are going to get on your case about your fantasies, taste in fiction or how you identify? Do not give a shit about you. Or the trauma you have faced. They don’t give a shit about other trauma survivors either, and they don’t care about how callous and shitty they seem. All they care is about controlling and policing people they think they might have a sliver of power over.

You can block or clown or do whatever you want. (I recommend blocking, don’t feed the trolls) But please for the love of god do not tell random strangers on the internet who have absolutely no business knowing you’re traumatized and have X Y and Z mental illnesses from it.

Don’t reveal yourself as vulnerable, don’t paint that target on your back, and don’t give people access to possible triggers that may hurt you.

[friendlyneighborhoodamara]

Ngl, as a Farcille fan and WOC, a fair bit of the discourse about there being more M/M fics than F/F fics on AO3 annoyed me because while I agree fandom misogyny is awful, I feel it gave some Farcille fans license to be racist or homophobic.

Like, I remember there being a LOT of anger at Labru specifically, and while I do prefer yuri ships over yaoi ships (nothing personally, I'm just a bi trans girl), given how much anger was directed at a ship involving a dark-skinned MOC because it "overshadowed" a ship with two white blonde women, I can't help but raise an eyebrow at a certain subset of Farcille fans.

This is exacerbated by how some Farcille fans hated on Toshiro due to him "getting in the way" of their ship, portraying him as either weak or worthless (both negative stereotypes of East Asian men) or a sexist thug who wants to violate Falin's happiness or consent (which is...a gross misread of Toshiro's character, and a rather racist interpretation of a MOC's crush on a white woman).

Idk, I feel white Farcille fans need to remember that they're white. Shit was wild for several months and I hope things get better.

[tavirl]

why is everyone acting as if canon relationships dictate what people ship? if something becomes canon it doesn't "kill" a ship..

shipping is all for fun and it's never that srs to be fighting over it like the mha fandom is

[froggypunpun]

This is the last thing... i will never post about ship discourse in dunmeshi from this point forward. But i needed to get this off of my chest.

Stop blaming fandom wide issues on ppl who like ships you don't like.

If you see a labru shipper call mithrun a burden and a dog, it's not because they like labru. It's because they're albeist.

If you see a kabumisu shipper push kabru to the backburner in favor of centering a white character, it's not because of kabumisu, it's because they're racist.

If a farcille shipper treats Toshiro like hes a disgusting predatory perv who Falin hates, it's not because they like farcille. It's because they're racist.

"Labru shippers call mithrun a burden and an old racist dog!!" No joke ive literally seen kabumisu shippers do the same thing

"Kabumisu shippers get pissy whenever kabru and laios are shown together in official art!!" Labru shippers do the same thing when kabru and mithrun are together

Ive seen shippers from all groups treat Kabru like he's a "sociopathic horrible person" (real words from dunmeshi fans). Ive seen Labru shippers admit that they only like labru so they treat Kabru like a sex object. Ive seen him be bastardized as "downbad" and horny 24/7 from both labru and kabumisu shippers, completely ignoring the intricacies of why he acts the way he does around Laios and Mithrun and instead dumbing it down to sex.

Ive seen yall all act funny about Shiro. Making him out to be a despicable person bc he said something bad while starving and tired. Calling him shallow for liking Falin as if they weren't literally friends. Acting like a guy in like, the fucking middle ages immediately going to proposal rather than dating is some horrible shocking thing for that time period. Villainizing him for traits that are present in pretty much every character as well.

None of these problems are limited to specific ships. Racism and albeism is a huge problem in this fandom and im gonna need yall to get that in ur heads instead of starting stupid shit. And just bc a shipper does something dumb and petty like getting mad when two characters from the ship they don't like are together, it doesn't mean that entire ship is the issue. Every fandom has stupid ppl who take shit too seriously. Some ppl who like your ship are bound to be like that too. Shut up pls omg

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA For Not Tagging a Work?

I, 32F, write primarily for my own enjoyment, my main platform being AO3. I currently have a multi-chaoter series that includes several major plot twists, including one that includes non-con. To avoid spoiling it, because I believe my stories deserve to be read with as little background info as possible, I only tag it as "Creator CHOSE not to Include Archive Warnings". Which is, as I hope is obvious, is not synonymous with "There Are No Warnings". The point is, I don't use the Rape/Non-con tag. Recently, I got a very upset reader in my comments complaining about how triggering that chapter of my work is, and that's where I have a problem. I believe the corporate obsession content warnings pervading even fanworks to be a major problem. I don't want to sanitize my work, but I do get that they contain pretty heavy themes. But I feel like I seriously do give my stories a disservice by adding labels on them, and maybe I am the asshole for this, but I value my pride and joy (my work) over strangers online. AITA?

What are these acronyms?

[sad-drake-lyrics]

what my 65yo father has to say about antis:

let me preface this by saying, i literally wish i had what just happened on video to go viral on TikTok. i was shook by this conversation down to my bones; and if you could see my father - a loud old Italian man with dramatic hand gestures - say what he had to say, i think this shit would blow up. but as i was obviously not filming him while we were eating, i will have to relay to you the story with my words.

so i'm sitting eating dinner at the coffee table with my father while watching TV, as Americans often do instead of eating at the dinner table, and since the news was on he started telling me this story that had been recently mentioned on TV once again from maybe ten years ago (it was in 2014, you can read about it here) where these two 12-year-old girls killed one of their friends as a sacrifice to the Slender Man. yeah, real thing. fucked up.

and so my father told me about how they interviewed one of the killer's mothers, and when questioned about where her daughter's motive could've come from, she said something along the lines of: you know, when i was a kid, i was into Stephen King and horror - and so when my kid was into that kind of stuff, i didn’t think it was a big deal.

so, of course, my response was "yeah, being into that stuff isn’t a big deal at all - it's normal - but being a sociopath and murdering someone is not normal; it's fucked up. but there's nothing wrong with being into horror stories - they're just stories meant to entertain - it doesn't make you a murderer to enjoy Halloween - but it would if you put on a Michael Myers mask and went out and stabbed people." and, of course, like any sane person, my father agreed with me.

then, continuing this line of conversation, i started talking about the concept of how "fiction isn’t reality," and how a frightening amount of people don't understand that; and i literally started telling him about antis - people on the internet who attack and harass others over "problematic" or "inappropriate" fictional interests.

i used well-known pop culture examples like: if you're into Game of Thrones and like Jaime and Cersei together or wanted Jon and Daenerys to end up together (i didn't think he would process the term "shipping," but clearly by the end of this conversation i think i was wrong), that people (antis) will say things like "you should die," and that you "support inc*st in real life," and that "you're disgusting."

i also used the examples of "toxic relationships" in pop culture, like the Joker and Harley Quinn, or Kylo Ren and Rey, and how if you’re into those kinds of fictional relationships that people (antis) will say that you "support toxic relationships," and that you are "glorifying abuse," and that it all "must be what you really want and believe is right or good."

and my fucking 65-year-old father literally goes: "I don’t understand. It’s a TV show. Don't they know it’s fake?"

queue my jaw dropping to the fucking ground because i'm like. YES. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PRO-SHIPPERS ARE TRYING TO SAY AND THESE PEOPLE DON'T GET IT.

he was flabbergasted, my pals. the shock in his eyes was incredible to behold.

and, oh boy, that isn't even the best part, guys.

my father then says, "Don’t tell me it’s like that with anime too?"

and i said, "it's worse with anime."

and i fucking swear to you - no joke, on my life and baby Jesus' cradle - again my 65-year-old father looks at me and says, “It’s a fucken cartoon."

... ... ...

... i can't ...

i can't end this post better than that.

[naarlar]

I don’t get akeshu / shuake at all.

Like I get it from a typical “fandom loves the enemies to lovers trope” perspective but in all honesty I don’t get the insane brainrot the persona 5 fandom has for this ship.

Like do I think Joker cares for Akechi? Yes.

Do I think he was genuinely conflicted/tempted by Maruki’s ultimatum? Yes.

Do I think they have a genuine relationship and see a lot of themselves in each other and actually somewhat understand each other? Yes.

That being said, I really don’t see how anyone can look past the fact that Akechi tried to kill Joker. And okie fine enemies to lovers, fandom’s favorite ship aside, I don’t see how Joker can actually want a full on relationship (like romantic) with this dude when Futaba, Sojiro, and Haru are like right there?

This may just be me but I reallllllllly wouldn’t be friends with someone who is friends (hell forget even in a romantic relationship) with someone who horribly hurt me.

And I don’t think Joker loves Akechi more than Futaba, Sojiro, or Haru. Especially Sojiro and Futaba. Those two are like his family, and Akechi is responsible for their suffering.

Like… it’s kind of one or the other. Joker can’t be friends/dating Akechi without horribly betraying Futaba, Sojiro, and Haru. That’s just how I see it (but I’m open to hearing other perspectives!)

[poitionsprince]

I feel like people don't use Snape's full potential in ships.

Like - he is one of the very few characters who is somehow connected to EVERYONE.

The amount of juice??? The amount of storyline that can come out of that??? HELLO???

[proudproship]

Antiship/anti-proship bingo, ready for any occasion :3

Just some common things I've seen within anti spaces; I could add WAY more, but I assumed that would be overkill.

No ID, because no energy + idk how to for bingo cards. Sorry :(

Interpret the card spaces however you want, since some things are worded weird.

Free to repost ANYWHERE, just don't erase/scribble my blog name at the bottom, thanks!!

Idk what else to put waaaaaaaA