#Socqueline herself

[motherofplatypus]

Yknow, the "Lila is Manon from the future" theory actually makes sense simply bcs we've seen a whole bunch of out of nowhere plot throughout S5. I mean, what's stopping them from making this canon? Surely it won't be their competence as writers.

[familyagrestefanblog]

There is seriously not a single character who got out of "Derision" unscathed. I'm even feeling bad for Socqueline because she just straight up got turned into a literal salt-fanfiction self-insert character where the OC protected Marinette by being the school badass even Chloé was afraid of (unlike that mean and useless Alya of course. The textbook definition of a bad friend, sure) but woe is she, unfortunately the author couldn't stay on Marinette's side forever! But fear not, the author was literally the inspiration for Marinette’s iconic pigtails because the OC was the only true ray of light in Marinette’s past so Marinette of course honored her hero for all times through the pigtails that now canonly originated with the salt-fanfiction self-insert character and not Marinette herself :/

[kindaorangey]

watched jubilation. that was really good apart from the final scene bc how the fuck did they acknowledge that they both saw the same fantasy without either of them making assumptions about ladybug's feelings for chat.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

IOTA Reviews: Derision

Well, here we are. This is the episode you've all been waiting for me to cover. The one people claim is the cream of the crop when it comes to badness, not just for the insane amount of retcons and cases of character assassination, but for how it retroactively makes one of the most criticized parts of the entire show worse by comparison. If you've seen the episode, you know what I'm talking about.

Let's get into the fourteenth episode of Miraculous Ladybug's fifth season: Derision

We start off with Marinette waking up for the day before getting a call from Adrien, who gives one of the clunkiest pieces of exposition I've ever heard on this show, and that's saying something.

Adrien: I was just going to tell you how excited I am that we're meeting at the swimming pool later, and to wake you up just in case you were still sleeping.

Just as she hangs up, Marinette's hands start to tremble, having visions of a locker, hinting at some old memories resurfacing. Just to get this out of the way, but one thing I want to give this episode props for is the way these panic attacks are portrayed. The colors change, the environments warp around, and it gives off a very uneasy feeling. It kind of reminds me of this one episode of The Twilight Zone, “Little Girl Lost”, which used similar visuals to depict the otherworldly atmosphere of another dimension.

Marinette meets up with Adrien at the local pool, and has another panic attack. Kim and Ondine seem to notice this.

Kim: Woah, Adrien. That must've been some prank you pulled to make Marinette freak out like that. What did you do to her?

Ondine: It's not funny, Kim! Can't you see Marinette's not okay?

Kim: Oh, come on. She always reacts like that when someone pranks her.

Kim then proceeds to tell Adrien and Ondine (and by extension, the audience) about what he means. I'm going to talk a lot about this, so to make things easier for all of us, I'll give you the short version so you have an idea of what happened.

About a year before the events of “Origins”, we see Chloe was bullying Marinette even more than she did before then, constantly pulling sadistic pranks Megan from Drake & Josh would find to be overkill, while making her late to class. To make things worse, none of her teachers believed her and took Chloe's side all the time, giving her detention on the weekends. Mylene, Rose, and Juleka try to help Marinette, but apparently, Chloe orders them to not talk with her before saying that “she'll be there to make Marinette's life a nightmare”.

The only person with the common sense to help out Marinette is Socqueline, that girl from “Jubiliation”. Socqueline learns that Marinette has a crush on Kim, who is even more of a jerk than he was during the first half of Season 1, and when Marinette thinks about asking him out to the swimming pool after school, Socqueline advises Marinette to be careful. Sabrina tips off Chloe to Marinette's plan, so Chloe goes to give Kim advice to pull a prank on Marinette. At the pool, just as Marinette confesses her feelings to Kim, Kim gives her a box full of spiders, causing her to panic and fall backwards into the pool. Chloe films the thing with the intent to make it go viral, but Socqueline stops her plan before she can upload it. Kim doesn't seem to see what he did was wrong, seeing it as a harmless joke as Socqueline tells him to piss off.

It's here that Marinette determines that if she ever has feelings for a boy ever again, she'll need to be super prepared, explaining how much she knows about Adrien and his schedule in later episodes. Chloe then gets Socqueline expelled from school just a few weeks before the end of the school year. Marinette blames herself for what happened, but Socqueline tells her that sometimes, no matter how dire the odds seem, she needs to muster up the courage to fight the good fight.

Oh, and Marinette was almost akumatized by Monarch again, but it's really just an excuse to keep her away while Kim tells the story.

So... let's talk about this flashback. Clocking in at about ten minutes, almost half of the episode's runtime, this is easily the part everyone (myself included) seems to have problems with, for all kinds of reasons. Let's break down each and everything wrong with this flashback.

#1: The Portrayal of Chloe

Surprisingly, this is the least of my problems. Compared to Kim (who I'll get to later), Chloe is mostly in character with how she's usually portrayed by this point in the series. She's egotistical, she orders Sabrina around, she hates Marinette, and throws her father's name around over and over again like it's a boomerang. My feelings on the wasted opportunities with her character aside, this does make sense seeing how this takes place before Season 1.

But there's the problem. This takes place before Season 1, and Chloe does things she never did in Season 1, or any of the other seasons for that matter. She clearly has the teachers and principal doing what she wants, she can boss the other students around (which I'll also get to later), she pulls sadistic practical jokes on Marinette, and even uses her dad's name to get Socqueline expelled. In the show, she doesn't really do any of this. Sure, she can occasionally use her dad's influence to get what she wants (Lady Wifi, Rogercop, Frightningale, Determination), but it was never to this extent. While she also tried to act like she was better than the rest of her peers, barring Sabrina, nobody ever listened to her or took her seriously. Chloe also tended to focus on bullying Marinette, but she didn't do these kinds of practical jokes. Usually, it was either sabotage (Mr. Pigeon, Despair Bear, Gabriel Agreste) or just general name calling, and she picked on other students too (Dark Cupid, Reflekta, Antibug, Sole Crusher, Penalteam, Deflagration).

The point I'm trying to make is why the hell did Chloe stop acting this way? What caused her to stop being as bad as she is here? I get the whole point of this episode is to show how terrible Chloe is, but you're showing off all her bad moments in a flashback and never considering the other things she's done that would be just as effective. Wasn't the main idea behind Chloe's “damnation arc” that she started to change, but went back on her ways and became worse than before? If that's the case, I have to reiterate, why was she even worse in this flashback?

I also have an issue with making the cause of all of Marinette's trauma because of this prank by Chloe. Yes, the prank was terrible, and trust me this isn't me once again going “GRR! CHLOE STAN ANGRY BECAUSE RICH GIRL IS EVIL IN FLASHBACK!”. It's more along the lines of “Really? We're really doing this?”. While I'm glad that after Chloe's betrayal at the end of Season 3, the show is finally considering the idea of making her more than just comic relief as a villain, it feels like a case of too little, too late.

After so many years of making Chloe out to be harmless unless she screams her daddy's name, now you're treating her like a serious threat who traumatized Marinette for life? Chloe is the cause of Marinette's trauma? This is like if the person who killed Bruce Wayne's parents turned out to be a joke character like Egghead or Crazy Quilt. Just because a serious villain does something important to the story, it doesn't automatically make their prior unfunny antics go away.

But my main gripe with the portrayal of Chloe here is that this flashback fails to do something that still hasn't been done in almost five seasons and eight years: Explain just why Chloe hates Marinette so much. Chloe is unusually cruel here, and doesn't even have a reason to torture Marinette like this. Usually, Marinette gets in the way of what she wants, but here? Marinette doesn't do anything to warrant this level of dedication. You would think for a flashback sequence focusing on her and Marinette's history, they would actually explain why Chloe likes to single out Marinette, but they don't. The writers would rather take time out of the episode to remind the audience of why Chloe is the way she is, and why it isn't acceptable, than clarify what Chloe's deal with Marinette is.

Rose: She’s this way because her mother left her when she was young.

Mylene: So did mine, and you don't see me having fun bullying Marinette.

Gee, I wonder if Astruc himself had a part in writing that exchange or not.

If you're willing to acknowledge previous episodes while also discussing how poorly Chloe treats Marinette, it would help if you finally did something to inform the audience about why Chloe likes to torture Marinette in the first place. Did Marinette show Chloe up at a fashion show? Did Marinette impress Chloe's dad one time? Did Marinette just spill coffee on Chloe's shoes? I will take literally anything, no matter how stupid the explanation is, over getting nothing after eight years.

It's also pretty rich that that scene was trying to say that what happened to Chloe doesn't justify her actions when not only do we never get a scene like that pointing out how creepy Marinette obsesing over Adrien was, but later in the episode, Marinette specifically pins all the blame on Chloe in one line.

Marinette: Adrien! I know what's wrong with me! It's not my fault, and it's not your fault, either! It's all Chloe's fault!

So remember kids, just because bad things happen to you, it doesn't excuse your unflattering actions... except when it does, and in that case, it's all the fault of the person who wronged you in the first place.

#2: The Portrayal of Kim

I'll admit, I'm not really the biggest fan of Kim as a character. I don't hate him, but it feels like after Season 2, he just became that guy who really loves to swim, where even characters like Max, Marc, and Nathaniel had more depth to them. This episode however? Yeah, I couldn't stand Kim here.

Just like with Chloe, Kim is sort of in character as the same eccentric dude who has a habit of being insensitive and accidentally upsetting people (Animan, Syren), and I need to emphasize the “sort of”. Just like Chloe, this goes against his characterization in Season 1, where he was shown to be a bully like Chloe was (Lady Wifi, Timetagger, Origins) before later episodes made him a nicer person. However, unlike Chloe, the show sort of tries to retcon Kim's rude behavior to be more in line with his Season 5 self by portraying him as more of a bully who simply isn't aware of how harmful his jokes are, but it doesn't work because of how cruel he seems, and he doesn't have the excuse of knowing how terrible he is like Chloe does.

There's also how easily he goes along with Chloe's prank when she literally insults him and Marinette to his face.

Chloe: I heard Marinette asked you to go with her to the swimming pool.

Kim: Yeah, we’re going swimming together. Cool! 'Cause I love to swim!

Chloe: That’s not why she asked you, dummy!

Kim: It's not? Then, what are we going to do? Chloe: She wants to declare her feelings for you! Kim: For me? But why?

Chloe: Probably because she's utterly ridiculous, and so are you, which makes you two perfect for each other!

Kim: Oh? You think so?

There's not being aware of how insensitive of how you are to others, and then there's not being able to comprehend basic insults. Chloe doesn't even try to give Kim a backhanded compliment or secretly insult him (“You really like swimming, don't you? Good thing you can swim better than you do in class.”). She just calls him a dummy, and Kim still falls for her trick. If you want to have Kim fall for Chloe's plan, don't make her so obviously cruel. For God's sake, you're making the class in the Lila episodes look smart by comparison.

And even after retelling the story, Kim still thinks Chloe highly, not only saying how pretty she is right in front of his girlfriend, but he still thinks the joke was the funniest thing ever. After five seasons, Kim of all people should know about how mean Chloe is, given he was literally kidnapped and brainwashed into serving her while she sided with Hawkmoth (Miracle Queen).

The worst part is that Kim has nothing to do with this story at all. You could literally replace him with any other guy, even a nameless background character with no lines, and nothing would change. Hell, I'd argue it'd be even better as having Marinette be embarrassed in front of some rando would highlight the impact it had on her self-esteem when she tries to go after someone of a higher social class. It would also better justify the spider prank if someone else pulled it because “Darkblade” established that Kim was afraid of spiders.

And if you think I'm talking about Kim after this part, believe me, there's more to this schmuck than meets the eye.

#3: The Way Everyone Just... Lets This All Happen

Look, I get what the episode is trying to go for, narratively, and realistically. Sometimes, teachers and other authority figures just don't do their jobs when someone gets bullied. Hell, I was bullied for years by someone who liked to take advantage of my anger issues, and it wasn't until my last year of middle school that the faculty finally decided to do something about it. I also get that this entire flashback wouldn't happen if the teachers realized how cruel Chloe was and got her expelled. What I don't get is how the flashback portrays anyone who was there as unwilling to do anything to help.

First off, Marinette claims that the reason none of the teachers believed her was because they're all too afraid to stand up to Chloe, since she can call her dad and cost them their jobs, but that's far from the truth. The only time we see anyone actually being afraid of Chloe was when Mr. Damocles went back on refusing to expel Socqueline before Chloe threatened to call her dad and get him fired. Other than that, while we only see Ms. Mendeleiev and Mr. Damocles in this flashback, neither of them really show any signs of being afraid of Chloe. They just go along with what she says, and they don't even try to take Marinette's side. Just like Kim, this would be more understandable if these were different characters who were never shown to be this cruel to Marinette in earlier episodes.

Second, while I can sort of buy the teachers not caring about Marinette, the fact that her classmates don't do anything is another story. We saw Mylene, Rose, and Juleka trying to help Marinette, but right after they talk to her, Chloe just orders them to go away, and it's never explained why. Marinette said the teachers were afraid of Chloe, but does that mean the students are too? Again, later episodes would establish nobody takes Chloe seriously as a bully, so this part of the flashback makes no sense. What changed to make them stop being afraid of Chloe anyway? Once again, if these were a bunch of nameless characters who were more apathetic to Marinette's situation, that would make sense, retroactively showing how much Marinette's friends care for her. Instead, it's like that scene in RWBY where the main characters watch a student being bullied by a racist classmate, and all they do is say “Wow, racism really sucks, huh? Anyway, not our problem.”

Third, you're telling me that Marinette came up with multiple excuses not to go to school even with a few weeks left in the year, and Marinette's parents didn't see anything weird about it? They didn't think that something must be making Marinette want to do anything but go to school? I don't think they were even informed about the situation at school, unless you want to be generous and say they knew Marinette got detention. You can't even make the excuse that it would work if these were different characters, but these are Marinette's parents. You know, the same characters the show portrays as loving and affectionate to their daughter? You're telling me they didn't even think to look into the situation, much less talk to Marinette about school?

The problem with all the other characters in this flashback is in order to make what happens possible, they have to be as apathetic as possible. There's being unaware of a situation or being too afraid to stand up (which is unfortunately something that happens when people bullied sometimes), and then there's just not caring about the bully victim at all. It's ironic how even though a big part of the flashback was to show how awful Chloe was, it unintentionally make everyone else in Marinette's life seem just as cruel to let her suffer like that.

But I know what you're thinking. “What about Socqueline? She was there to help Marinette, so why didn't you mention her?” Well...

#4: Where the Hell Has Socqueline Been All This Time?

Like I mentioned in my “Jubilation” review, Socqueline is yet another unnecessary addition to the already overcrowded cast of characters in this show, and it seemed like this episode was meant to justify her inclusion, but it only raised more questions.

Just to remind you, this flashback establishes that Marinette was constantly bullied by Chloe until a nice girl in glasses stood up for her, and inspired Marinette to be more confident.

SOUND FAMILIAR?

Yeah, this flashback is pretty much the same as Marinette's arc in “Origins” was, only with Socqueline in Alya's place. We get it, writers, Season 1 was good. Constantly repeating stuff like what happened in “Mr. Pigeon 72” isn't going to win you any favors.

This really highlights how pointless of a character Socqueline is, as despite supposedly being a really important person in Marinette's life, Marinette herself never thought to tell anyone about her, and judging from how Marinette described her to Tikki in “Jubilation”, I don't think she even stayed in contact with Socqueline after she was expelled. It's not like left Paris afterwards. All we know is that she went to another school and got a job at a local arts and crafts store, so why did Marinette just stop talking with her? Even with Felix and Zoe, they had the excuse of being in different countries, but you can't say that with Socqueline.

Also, this was something I just realized, but if Mr. Damocles got her expelled, why the hell did Socqueline treat him like he was any other customer at her job, much less compliment him as a principal?

#5: The Handling of Trauma in General, and How This Impacts Marinette as a Character

Like pretty much every other serious issue it tries to tackle, Miraculous Ladybug has always had a poor understanding of mental health. When it comes to portraying characters who struggle with some form of grief of trauma, like Adrien, Felix, Chloe, Zoe, and even Marinette, the responses usually amount to some variation of “Grow a pair and get over it, you big baby!”.

With Felix, Chloe, and Marinette, even if their actions are partially motivated as a response to either losing a loved one, trying to emulate their neglectful parent, or as a defense mechanism to avoid repeating an already traumatic experience, they're all proven to be in the wrong, and it's not to teach a lesson about alternative coping mechanisms or support systems. The show just says that they're automatically wrong for what they do, what causes them to act the way they do is never acknowledged, and instead, we're supposed to just act like they're being jerks for no reason. Compare this to Adrien and Zoe, who both had rough lives losing their mother at a young age or living with an abusive mother respectively, and rather than go into detail how it affected them or how they managed to become decent human beings in spite of it, the show just says that they're nice people, so people like Felix, Chloe, and Marinette have no reason to be mean to others.

This is honestly why I feel like this episode's depiction of mental health and dealing with trauma falls flat. In case you didn't know, I asked my followers who had to deal with some form of trauma to share their experiences and how it compared to what Marinette went through in the episode. For the most part, the common consensus seems to be that while the symptoms of Marinette's trauma and her reactions to it are very believable, a lot of it is contradicted by previous episodes, and it seems like it was only there to do a story about dealing with trauma.

So many episodes across Seasons 1 through 4 show Marinette dealing with Kim and Chloe without really any issue, and she showed no problem with starting relationships with Luka and Cat Noir, to say nothing about Nathaniel's brief crush on her in “The Evillustrator”. If Marinette was so traumatized by this prank, why did she want to go swimming in episodes like “Gorizilla” and “Mr. Pigeon 72”? Why did she bother to help Kim confess to Chloe in “Dark Cupid”? Why did she team up with Chloe to sabotage Kagami in “Animaestro”? Why did she suggest Chloe could change for the better throughout Seasons 2 and 3? Why did she continue to let Chloe and Kim use the Bee and Monkey Miraculous respectively, even after they got them from outside sources? This flashback is desperately trying to tie previous events of the series together together, but it only works if you ignore all the times Marinette has interacted with Kim and Chloe without having a panic attack.

Then there's how the flashback tries to connect this to Marinette memorizing all of Adrien's schedule to make sure he won't hurt her, an obvious attempt to rebuff one of the biggest criticisms of her as a character. Here's why it doesn't work.

First off, the setup doesn't work because while Marinette vows to do a better job getting to know the next person she falls in love with and how, in her words mind you, “He isn't friends with Chloe”. Putting aside the kindness he's shown her in “Origins”, she kind of failed to really consider her choice to pursue him if he stayed friends with Chloe if we're going to believe Chloe traumatized Marinette so much.

It also doesn't really explain the more predatory actions Marinette has taken whenever another girl tries to get close to Adrien (The Bubbler, Volpina, Animaestro, Oni-Chan, Heart Hunter), or how she tries to rig up situations to get closer to him (The Gamer, Gigantitan, Backwarder, Party Crasher, Felix, Psycomedian, Glaciator 2, Simpleman). And that's not even getting into how obsessive she is with him in other areas, like repeatedly playing a commercial he was in (Gorizilla), making a bunch of presents for him in advance (Christmaster), trying to kiss a wax statue of him (The Puppeteer 2), sniffing his pillow (Cat Blanc), or all the other times she's creepily obsessed over him.

But of course, you've probably noticed that I've forgotten to mention one key thing about what this flashback means: You know how Marinette tends to act nervously and stumbles a lot around Adrien when she isn't meticulously documenting his schedule? Yeah, they were essentially panic attacks brought on by her PTSD, and the episode tries to act like Kim did to her wasn't funny afterwards. Here's the problem with this.

YOU MADE MARINETTE'S TRAUMA YOUR PRIMARY SOURCE OF COMEDY FOR THE PAST FIVE FUCKING SEASONS!

You do NOT have the right to act like what happened to Marinette was bad when you were constantly playing her anxiety up for laughs for almost EIGHT YEARS at this point!

In addition to all the other examples I mentioned, we had episodes like “Psycomedian”, which confirmed that the same behavior that this episode is trying to say is connected to her trauma was hilarious to Adrien, as well as “Backwarder”, which thrived on playing up Marinette's anxiety towards Adrien and was said to be one of the funniest episodes of the show to work on by Astruc himself.

THIS IS WHAT THOMAS ASTRUC ACTUALLY BELIEVES

#6: Why This Flashback Is Ultimately Pointless

But above all, the biggest problem I have with this flashback is because of how pointless it is. It's trying to better go into detail about why Marinette acts the way she does around Adrien, but did we really need to do that?

This flashback doesn't really reveal anything that we didn't know already. We know Marinette was bullied by Chloe, we know she was a lot more meek and needed others to stand up for her, and we definitely know that we're not supposed to like Chloe. Adding to my earlier point, if we actually got more insight into the origin of Chloe's obsession with Marinette, that would have at least made this flashback important to watch, but once again, despite being a flashback episode, we learn nothing about the characters that we don't already know.

But this flashback is also meant to explain why Marinette is so hesitant to embrace her new relationship with Adrien when we already got a reason for that last season. The first half of the season has made a big deal about how much her feelings for Adrien cost her the Miraculous, so why not focus on that? This flashback just feels like it's here to give more Marinette angst instead of focusing on the things they've already established. And that's not even getting into what she saw during “Cat Blanc”.

Why couldn't we just have a story about Marinette's own insecurities causing her to doubt she can make her relationship with Adrien work, seeing how poorly things ended with Luka? Have her worry that something could go wrong as a result of her need to overcompensate, or worry that Adrien could betray her. That way, you could have Adrien supporting Marinette in a way that reflects their partnership as Cat Noir and Ladybug respectively.

But no. Instead we have this flashback that's taken me about ten pages to fully dissect. And the worst part is that I still have the rest of the episode to talk about. God help me...

So after Adrien and Ondine explain how this prank could have done a lot of damage to Marinette's psyche, Kim decides to find Marinette, and apologize for being so—Ah, I'm just messing with you guys. After all, that would actually make Kim likable. So what does he say instead?

Kim: Come on! Loosen up, you guys! It's like you can't even speak your mind these days.

Ondine: That doesn't give you permission to hurt other people!

Kim: Whatever! I'm the way I am and I'm fine that way! It's not my fault you guys have no sense of humor!

Yep, rather than having Kim realize the error of his ways and maybe be akumatized out of guilt, Kim just whines about how everyone else is just a humorless pansy these days. The writers pretty much made Kim's motivation boil down to “It's just a prank, bro!”. Even Monarch seems to go along with this, as he refers to Kim as “A free spirit feeling unjustly rejected”, when this was right after he called Chloe the prettiest girl in front of his own girlfriend's face. So Monarch sends his Akuma to Kim's goggles, akumatizing him into Dark Humor. Yes, that's really the name they're going with.

Dark Humor is a pretty forgettable recolor of Dark Cupid. Other than inverting the red and black color scheme and giving him a targeting scope on his right eye, there's not much else to say other than the incredibly on the nose name they gave him. His powers are sort of like Dark Cupid's, only now, instead of turning people heartless, they now share his soulless brand of “humor”. At least, I think it is. His Alliance power is the Monkey Miraculous's Uproar, but it's not really clarified if he's only using Uproar arrows or not, judging from the use of the rubber ducky that we've seen King Monkey use before.

Marinette and Adrien transform into Ladybug and Cat Noir respectively, but once they meet up, we get the most controversial part of the episode that isn't connected to the flashback scene: Cat Noir gives Dark Humor the beatdown of his life and is about to Cataclysm him, for pulling a bad prank on Marinette a year ago. Yeah, a lot of people have pointed out that Adrien felt a lot of remorse for Cataclysming Monarch earlier in this season, yet here, Cat Noir looks like someone told him that Kim just shot the Pope. For God's sake, writers, you're five seasons in! How hard is it to determine whether or not you want your hero to be okay with killing people or not?

And of course, this bites him in the ass, as Dark Humor stabs Cat Noir with an arrow, not only changing his Cataclysm into something that creates a bunch of balls from his hand, but also making him just as insane as the rest of Dark Humor's victims. You know, I'm this close to starting a “Remember Season 1” counter, because this is just glorified fanservice.

Ladybug tries to summon her Lucky Charm, but is stopped by Dark Humor, so Ladybug transforms back into Marinette, transforms into Ladybug again, and summons her Lucky Charm for real this time, getting... a toilet. Of course, the only way to combat Dark Humor's bad jokes is by using even worse jokes! Genius! Ladybug places the toilet over Dark Humor's head and breaks it along with the goggles, freeing the Akuma.

Ladybug de-evilizes the Akuma, uses Miraculous Ladybug to fix the damage, gives Kim a useless Magical Charm, and Cat Noir apologizes for murdering Kim by saying his emotions got the better of him, which is like saying OJ Simpson and his wife had a minor disagreement.

Kim apologizes to Marinette for traumatizing her, and I guess that's enough for Ondine to forgive him for saying another girl is prettier than her.

After Marinette sort of explains what happened to Adrien, he goes over to tell Chloe to apologize, and we get... this scene.

Adrien: I know about everything that you did to Marinette last year, Chloe. You're going to go and apologize to her and prove to everyone that you can change. I'm sure she'll forgive you.

Chloe: (laughs) Forgive me? What do I care about her forgiveness? I couldn't care less about Dupain-Cheng's feelings! She and the likes of her only exist to suffer for my entertainment. Why bother having power if you can’t use it against those who don’t have any? You’re the one who’s getting things wrong, with your baker girl! You’re a prince! You belong with me, the princess! You’re in this world to shine! To make fun of all the losers who are only good enough to be used as doormats!

Adrien: You're nothing like a princess, Chloe. I supported you. I gave you multiple chances to become a better person. Everyone reached out to you, including Ladybug and Cat Noir when they gave you the Miraculous of the Bee again. But all you ever think about is yourself.

Chloe: And what else IS there to think about? Losers and nobodies? The little bees? The planet?

Adrien: We will never be friends again, Chloe. You and I are done.

Chloe: Traitor.

Okay, first off, “She and the likes of her only exist to suffer for my entertainment.”? That's the line you're going with? She sounds like a dark lord in an RPG game. How is this the closest thing we ever get to an explanation to why Chloe hates Marinette so much?

Second, ignoring the fact that we already had Chloe end her friendship with Adrien last season (Queen Banana), it's pretty weird that this is the breaking point in their friendship. Adrien doesn't mention all the other times she's bullied people or when she sided with Hawkmoth even when he brought up her time as Queen Bee. He saw her being mean to so many people over five seasons, yet only when he learns Chloe did something to his girlfriend that he decides to finally confront her. If we at least got a line where Adrien acknowledged that he essentially enabled Chloe for so long by thinking she could change, that would have at least sort of worked. Instead, he makes it about how she refused to change herself. Dude, you had the chance to stand up to her for years, and you even did so in one episode before you went back on it (Despair Bear). You have nobody to blame but yourself.

Finally, Chloe is pretty out of character here. She's way too calm about ending her friendship with Adrien compared to what happened in “Despair Bear” and “Queen Banana”. You'd think if the writers wanted this to be a big moment of catharsis for the audience, Chloe would at least beg Adrien to stay a little. But no, Chloe brushes it off when it could easily justify her getting worse in later episodes, and even Adrien doesn't even consider how much he thought Chloe's friendship meant to him. Because these writers are dedicated to making sure that any identifiable trait Chloe once had is removed so you have no choice but to hate her.

But hey, at least the episode's over. What did I think of it?

Yeah, it wasn't very good.

I just... what else do you even want me to say here? I spent about ten pages going over why the flashback sequence doesn't work, I've already ranted about Cat Noir trying to kill someone with his Cataclysm in previous episodes (Hack-San, Jubilation), and I think you all know what my feelings on the portrayal of Chloe and Kim are.

I guess I can answer one question you may have: Is this episode worse than either “Penalteam” or “Queen Banana”? Eh, not really. Let me explain.

The problems with “Queen Banana” and “Penalteam” went beyond the treatment of Chloe with the way the stories were handled, with “Queen Banana” being a cheap jab at critics and TV executives while propping up their new character Zoe, and “Penalteam” being an excuse to have a soccer episode while making Cat Noir look like a buffoon right before the finale. Most of the problems with this episode have more to do with how they affect the way we see previous episodes, and why some scenes that were already unfunny are even less funny now.

With this episode, you can at least tell there was some effort being made to tell a more serious story here that went into what made Marinette tick. Yeah, it and the themes of mental health and trauma were handled about as gracefully as a ballet dancer trying to get a bear trap off their leg, but there's at least an attempt here.

Of course, this episode is still awful. The conflict with Kim not getting how much of a jerk he was after a year was dumb (as was him being even more of a jerk as Dark Humor), the fact that Marinette's trauma seemed to come and go when the plot needed it to really showed off how forced it is, and it only ends with you having more questions about Marinette and Chloe's rivalry rather than answering them.

While I'm still not a fan of this episode, and would still place it in my top five least favorites, I don't think it's the absolute worst. Although it's still the worst one so far this season from a technical standpoint.

THE BIGGEST IDIOT OF THE EPISODE IS...KIM

It says a lot when Cat Noir actually tried to murder someone in this episode, yet not only is he not even considered for the award this episode, the person he tried to kill ends up being the bigger idiot. Not only did he easily fall for Chloe's plan when she insulted him to his face, he failed to understand how it affected Marinette for a year, and when he was told about how bad it was, he refused to take responsibility for his actions, blamed it on other people not being able to take a joke, and only gave the smallest apology after he was almost killed for his attitude. It's honestly funny how he somehow comes across as more unlikable than Chloe, the character this episode was made to make you hate even more.

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

Derision was a breath of fresh air this season. I didn't have much to analyse in the latest episodes, but here I go now.

This episode gives us that very important backstory needed to understand Marinette's behaviour both as herself, but also Ladybug. Chloé's bullying and her trauma with Kim has very much shaped her way of thinking and acting, which we see the most throughout season 4 and 5.

After confessing to Kim in what turned out to be a prank and humiliated, Marinette swears to three things:

To never fall in love with someone without knowing them fully

To always have everything planned and under her control

To never get feelings for someone who is friends with Chloé

Each of these decisions are a direct consequence of her trauma, beliefs acquired due to it, and they have tremendous impact on her decisions later on. Let's take it piece by piece.

Belief 1: I should never fall in love with someone without knowing them fully

I guess I am not the only LadyNoir stan who has been thoroughly annoyed for years that Ladybug refused to acknowledge that she held a deep affection for Chat Noir. Well, turns out, that had a very justified reason. She has prohibitten herself from having feelings with someone who she doesn't know fully, which obviously is impossible when she can't know the person behind the mask. This decision to omit any romantic feelings that she may have for Chat Noir happens mostly unconsciously: it is not that she actively thinks that the person behind the Chat Noir person is bad (or God forbid, friends with Chloé!). It is just that she has once put her faith in someone and let herself fall in love with them without knowing them properly, and it led to humiliation, heartache, and hurting her friend Socqueline. So obviously, in her mind, as someone she can't ever fully know due to the identity schenanigans, Chat Noir is a no-no on her crushable guys list.

Then you might ask, how come she ends up falling in love with Chat Noir in season 5? She even explicitely says, in Elation, that she doesn't care that he wears a mask, right?

Well, here is the thing, at the end of Season 4, Chat Noir shows to Ladybug that she can trust him, and she really does. She starts giving him more responsibilities as her partner (like confiding him the Bunny Miraculous), but also as a friend. She realises that she trusts Chat Noir literally with her life, why not with her heart? So she is willing to make an exception to her belief, because she trusts Chat Noir and that he'd be there when she is down (and not kick her the way Kim did).

Belief 2: I must always have everything under control

I won't get in the details of Marinette and her need for control and how it affects her relationship with Adrien and with Chat Noir because I already did it after Passion (I think my analysis from then still stands in this new context). But basically, Marinette has an urge to control everything because, now we learned, in times she didn't, things went very sour. This applies to her superhero work and how she wanted to be the only one in charge until her overbearing of responsibilities broke her in Risk, but also her personal life, where being in a relationship with Adrien is totally unchartered territory for her (more on that in the aforementioned post), plus too similar in circumstance to what happened in the past with Kim, so she is being extra controlling.

Belief 3: I should never get feelings for someone who is friends with Chloé

Marinette's context with Kim and Adrien show a lot of similarities, which explains why she is being overly controlling and reserved when it comes to her relationship with Adrien.

Adrien and Chloé are childhood friends, and since their friendship developed outside the school, Marinette doesn't know much about their friendship dynamics (neither do we). She only knows that Chloé is cruel, and how can someone nice be friends with someone so cruel?

Hence her mistrust of Adrien in Origins. When they first meet, she doesn't like Adrien, thinks that he is trying to prank her for Chloé. See the parallel with Kim? That never was Adrien's intention of course, and he comes clean in a half-apology, telling her that he never meant to put the chewing gum on her seat. A recognition of his actions and how they may impact her, which Kim never did. Even when confronted a year later by Ondine and Adrien, he still continues to argue that he was in the right. Meanwhile, Adrien acknowledges that his action might have hurt Marinette even if he didn't even mean to prank her. From the beginning, Adrien sets himself different from Kim, and Marinette inconsciously acknowledges that by allowing herself to develop feelings for him.

Nonetheless, the scar of that past trauma stays, and manifests itself when she wants to finally confess her feelings for Adrien. After all, Kim pranked her just as she had confessed to him, so it is totally underastandable that in Marinette's brain, confessing and making yourself vulnerable equals to being hurt.

But she is willing to work on that. At the end of Derision, she does take Adrien's hand, even though after some hesitation. However, she can't keep holding onto it, and she apologies for it. Adrien says that they have time, allowing her the space she needs to unlearn her past beliefs.

While Marinette decides to work on herself to get over her fear, Adrien also unrealisingly addresses the source of Marinette's fear by confronting Chloé and severing all ties and friendship he had with her.

In the end, both are willing to be there for each other and do the right thing.

This season shows that Marinette cannot, in fact, continue hanging onto the beliefs she acquired after Kim's prank.

She does prove herself wrong by managing to fall in love with someone she doesn't know fully, and even acknowledges that she doesn't need to know Chat Noir fully to love him.

She sees that she cannot keep everything under control by herself and she needs support, especially that of Chat Noir. But also, she learns that she needs to yield some control to Adrien if she is to have a healthy relationship with him.

Lastly, she is willing to try and get past her fear of Chloé. Adrien also distancing himself from her, facilitates Marinette's job.

Overcoming these three beliefs that Marinette acquired due to the trauma caused by Kim and Chloé, Marinette is now one step closer to being able to love Adrien (but also Chat Noir!) fully and freely.

Note: I haven't watched anything beyond Derision, so please do not spoil beyond that in the tags or comments 0:)

[universallywriting]

I'm really surprised at how many people are taking away from Derision that the thing that ruined Marinette was Kim's prank. Because it wasn't about Kim - it was about Chloe.

The reason why we have so much flashback in this episode is to show that Chloe was making Marinette's life hell every day. Marinette is afraid to go to school because of Chloe. Marinette is nervous to open her locker because of Chloe. Marinette is late to class and gets in trouble because of Chloe, because Chloe is relentlessly harassing her.

This isn't even just implied. There's a whole conversation in which we see that many people like Marinette and she has friends she sits with at lunch because the cafeteria is the one place that Chloe isn't ruining her life, and Chloe immediately shows up and tells Marinette that the last safe space she has in the school isn't going to be safe anymore.

Then Chloe proves that she's right! She manipulated Kim to mess with Marinette outside of school, and Chloe is right there to take a picture. That's the point. That's why Marinette says that "above all I'll make sure they aren't friends with Chloe". She knows exactly what's happening because it's been happening to Marinette for years. Chloe chose Marinette as her favorite person to bully and did not let up on her for multiple years, and by the end of the last year of middle school it had reached the point that Marinette couldn't even count on her life outside of class to not be under Chloe's attack.

It's not paranoia either! Chloe has gotten people fired! Chloe worked specifically to give Marinette a reputation at the school of being a bad kid - one who doesn't come to class on time, who is clowning around and taking up everyone's attention, who is consistently blaming Chloe for all her problems as consistently as Chloe as bullying her. Socqueline is literally expelled for standing up to Chloe, which means every time they've threatened to expel Marinette for the same she's right to be afraid!

As an adult who has worked in the school system, this is painfully real. I saw so many kids who would consistently get in trouble despite the fact that they were the ones being bullied. It happened to me when I was a kid in middle school and high school because I was the weird kid with ADHD who couldn't sit still. It doesn't take much for a kid to get a reputation, and for teachers to spread around and share that some kids shouldn't ever be believed or listened to.

The episode explains that Marinette knows the system will not help her. Marinette has reached out for help and been called a liar for years. She's looked to her fellow students for help and found them all silent. She has been attacked by people with wealth and power because they don't think she's high class enough to be in their presence.

Why do people believe Lila? Why do people ignore Marinette? Why is she consistently paranoid about being hurt, about thinking other people are trying to deceive her? Why is Marinette terrified of relying on anyone other than herself?

Because Chloe bullied her for years, destroyed her school career, and convinced her first crush to pretend to be into her as a joke just so they could post it on social media. And that whole time, there was one person who stood up for her, and it ended with that person being expelled from school.

Trauma isn't always just one incident. Sometimes it's years of a pattern of behavior that informs the way you see the world, and it makes the people around you think that you're crazy and paranoid and that you're always seeing dangers that aren't there.

If you want to hate on the show or hate on Marinette, fine, but don't belittle how much this sucks. This is a real thing that real kids experience all the time. This is what bullying actually looks like, the consistent neverending drip of misery that convinces people that safety is an impossible dream.

It wasn't one bad proposal. It was a pattern of systemic abuse and neglect for years.

[uptoolateart]

I've been saying for years that I think Marinette will wear her hair down when she truly gets together with Adrien. She had it down when he kissed her in Cat Blanc, he was mesmerised by it at the end of Season 3, etc, etc...and then we saw it in Derision.

She obviously copied the pigtails off Socqueline, out of admiration and maybe to channel her friend's power.

I commented before on Adrien's hair changing when he becomes Cat...and the total lack of hair when using the snake, which Thomas himself confirmed was because Adrien knew he was 'doing some bullshit'.

Hair is a classic personality symbol in film, TV, plays, etc. We read a lot into it, whether we're aware of it or not.

Maybe Marinette will wear her own hairstyle when she wholly accepts herself.

[generalluxun]

Based on their season 1 (Primarily) and season 2/3 (if you desire it) characterization. How do you think the characters and story of ML would develop had Marinette developed a crush on Chat & Adrien a crush on Marinette?

My thinking, taking out any given issues with the shows handling of the characters and just what I think makes sense for them based on extrapolation feels:

Ladybug is definitely a bit more overtly "Adorkable" in the publics eye, but the danger of the situation does stop her from stumbling over herself as much as Marinette did with Adrien. She is far more likely to be pushing for secret ID reveals, but probably through hints over overt action.

Adrien is not as forward with Marinette as he is as Chat with Ladybug. Even ignoring the Chat persona being an exaggeration, he also has his reputation and ingrained habits to think of. But Nino did ask him for date advice so I think he'd make more overt attempts at wooing her & probably push harder on Chloe to be nicer.

Gabriel probably hates this and may be stumping harder to yang Adrien out of school, which could force Adrien to be more quiet about his interest as well.

Chloe is... Not having a good time. Regardless of whether her feelings for Adrien are romantic, platonic, confused cos of sexuality or the like. He matters to her a lot but right after arriving at school is not only putting a lot of distance between them but seemingly holding their friendship for ransom to earn the approval of a girl Chloe has issue with.

Okay so thought about this:

Ladybug falls for Chat in Origins when he rushes in to defend her during one of her initial panic/what is happening moments. She's reminded of being protected by Socqueline (Derision is not canon, ever, but we can repurpose bits of it) She had resigned herself to being 'on her own' after her friend graduated (not expelled) now, here is someone else making her feel *safe* even in mortal peril.

She's still Ladybug, she's still the leader. She is very focused on 'protecting her protector' though. He's *her* kitty. If only he could be in more ways than are allowed...

She'll push Fu to include him more, she'll pay more attention and push to be her best self. Her plans will be a little less effective, like in Kuro Neko she's focusing too much on her partner. It won't be crippling though, but it hints at what she needs to work on.

Now on the second day when Adrien shows up, things go differently. Let's give the Limo a flat so he shows up without Chloé. The world is a bit spookier, are monsters common? He's nervous. He drops his books, and someone stoops to help him pick them up and their heads bump.

'oh ouch sorry. Here let me...' sure hands ruffle through hos hair, checking for an injury. Adrien looks up and *cue music* Marinette.

She's already set on being her 'best self' to live up to her Perfect Pawtner. So helping the new kid around? That's just what she should do!

On Adrien's end though he can't help but marvel at how much she reminds him of his mother(hear me out) He's been adrift since her disappearance. His father is distant, Nathalie is cold, and even though Chloé cares she's a hurricane in a ponytail. Marinette;leading him to the classroom, showing him his seat, and giving him tips, makes him feel *safe*. (Woo parallels!) He falls hard and fast.

He becomes a Marinette stan, furst to support her. First to go the extra mile. Talking her up and excited to see what she will do next. Every step she takes to be the 'everyday Ladybug' only males him fall harder. The 'weakspot' he has to work on is how completely uncritical he is, after all his mother could do no wrong! He doesn't make the conscious connection, but he treats Marinette the same. She's not a memory of a mother though, she's a living breathing 14yr old. She will and should make mistakes. Adrien discounts them too much, excusing/rationalizing/redirecting her shortcomings which actually inhibits her growth. 'I was wrong' is something everyone needs as a part of their life.

Chloé is in fact having a bad time(maybe?) she can't bully or daddy her way out of this. Adrien gushes about Marinette and Chloé's initial 'ewww' turns him instantly cold (only briefly though) but it is a warning. If she wants to win she has to *beat* Marinette. She needs to be better, smarter, stronger, she can't fake it. She has to compete and win! Hijinks/rivalry ensues (Marinette isn't competing for Adrien, but the chance to show up Chloé is cathartic as heck!)

What's fascinating is how various other things will shake out. Chloé's 'daddy' goes unused, most people get ignored. She can't push and shove her way out of this. Alya has to listen to Marinette gushing about Cat Noir (she knitted herself a pawprint sweater that she sleeps in, but she has to keep fangirling on the down low in public so she doesn't clue in whoever CN really is!) Nino's crush on Marinette is DoA. Do he and Alya still get together? Adrien's in Nino's ear about Mari every day.

Does Alya pull Chloé aside and say 'wtf are you even doing?' emboldened by the blonde's shift from dominance to competition. Foes Sabrina branch out, being Chloé's 'trainer' for a myriad competitions. She(they) could come into contact with a lot more people.

It's a whole AU in the making.

[artzychic27]

What if in the favoritism au, Socqueline was Marinette’s right hand woman and was the only one who knew about her real personality but didn’t really care because she saw herself in Marinette in a way?

Socqueline is just as bad as Marinette, hell, maybe worse. She ran for student body President to keep the outcast students in line and is doing everything in her power to make sure no Marinette has no competition for when she runs

She helps Marinette by taking part in tormenting Marc by assisting in the dress codes and making it so he can’t wear his ripped jeans

And she implemented a “Best Buddies” system for the school, making it so he could no longer sit alone during study hall and write and was forced to spend time with a student who knowingly tortures him on Marinette’s whim

And she acts as if it’s all for the good of the school’s image, when, in reality, she’s giving Marinette ideas for when she runs

In her eyes, there are The Betters like her and Marinette, and The Lessers like Marc. The Betters are the faces of the school, the athletes, the rich kids, the student government, anyone lucky to be friends with them, etc., and The Lessers are meant only to follow the rules of The Betters and no one will remember them when everyone graduates

Socqueline helps Marinette keep tabs on those she has blackmail on, all compiled in a folder on her tablet (Which never leaves her side)

And in that tablet is another folder with blackmail on current and potential students

Marc has been trying forever to get that tablet, but the walls have ears…

When Chloé eventually gets Socqueline expelled (Because student body president can’t trump Mayor’s Daughter), it’s as if a huge weight left the students shoulders, and they aren’t sure why… Yet

Still, they think Socqueline is this saint who only wanted to help them, and Chloé only got rid of her because she was Marinette’s friend

Chloé: *Walks into the bathroom to reapply her makeup. It takes her a moment to finally address Marc standing behind her* … I’m pretty sure this is the girl’s bathroom.

Marc: Don’t care. Just answer me this. Why did you do it?

Chloé: … I think we both know what will happen if DuPain-Cheng becomes president. Rules that will make school even harder for you, dress codes to keep you from wearing nothing but black, and re-instating that God-awful buddy system to make sure you’re paired up with her lapdogs.

Marc: What’s in it for you?

Chloé: *Reapplies her mascara* Well, while I have no opinions of you, I’m not quite fond of DuPain-Cheng’s behavior. It’s a little… Stalkerish? I’ve seen the way she practically drools at the sight of her obsessions, and I saw her digging through their trash cans. And… I don’t know, I guess it’s demented how she’s been treating you, Anciel.

Marc: But why do something now? Why not when she got two assholes from the basketball team to dunk my head in the toilet after I was supposedly caught taking drugs in the bathroom?

Chloé: I didn’t have a reason then. But now, I do. Adrien Agreste is coming here next year, and I know damn well that creep is going to traumatize him. What better way to ensure she can’t get what she wants than by removing her ticket to power over the school?

Marc: That’ll do nothing. These brainless sycophants worship the ground she walks on and the rest will do whatever it takes to make sure she’s president if it means making sure their secrets aren’t exposed to the city.

Chloé: Up for a little voter fraud?

Marc: I’m listening.

[flightfoot]

After seeing the situation in Confrontation and Collusion, I think that ultimately, stopping Chloe from running roughshod over everyone at school has always been down to Andre. As we saw in Confrontation and Collusion, even when someone puts their foot down and refuses to follow through with Andre's demands (or Chloe's, whatever), it only stops that one specific thing from going through - then the person is fired and someone else has to be the puppet or risk getting fired.

Like, for as much flak as Damocles got over Derision, I don't think that him refusing to suspend Socqueline for that last week would ultimately have done that much good. Then Mendeleiv would have taken over and immediately caved to her superior's demands, as we saw in Collusion. And even if she hadn't, well, she just would have been fired and replaced herself.

Ultimately, Damocles and Mendeleiv were just the scapegoats - they had no actual power. It all came down to Chloe using her father's power to get her way, and Andre being fully willing to exercise that power in ways that appear to be legal in Miraculous Paris, but aren't in the real world.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Pre-Derision I actually thought Socquline was a lot of fun. As an older student with a sense of justice who Marinette admired from afar and tried to emulate Socqueline was a flavorful side character.

Then she became Marinette's always-was bestie Tae Kwon Do bodyguard who was expelled by Satan Herself for protecting wubbie Mari, and it went to zero in a single episode.

Yeah just.

Having Socqueline as an upperclassman that Marinette was friendly enough with to recognize but not close enough to stay in contact with when their lives got busy(Socqueline graduating to high school, Marinette dealing with Ladybug shit).

That's perfect! That works!

But giving her a super close relationship just makes me wonder what the fuck is wrong with them that they went from 'besties' to 'haven't talked in over a year'.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Ml Analysis: Marinette's crush on Kim

You know, Marinette having a crush on Kim in the past in "Derision" checks out so much more than people give it credit for.

Marinette is a kid who got bullied on an sometimes even extreme level on a daily for years by Chloé and by the power she has over the school environment (or more accurately, Chloé's parents) and under these circumstances that we saw it makes perfect sense for why she felt drawn to Kim. Kim embodys alot of characteristics she would find comforting or even attractive because of her being a victim of bullying.

- Basics: Kim is tall, strong and sporty. He could effectively defend and protect her from Chloé or almost any of the other kids.

- He's stupid and this manifest itself very dominently in him not being too bothered by authority or threats. No, I'm not joking, him being stupid factors into this. "Derision" shows how everyone around Marinette is at least to some degree afraid of Chloé (or her parents) because of her power, the verbal insults she can deliver or physical "pranks"/bullying she pulls. Kim on the other hand isn't bothered in the slightest by whatever Chloé does and because of that Chloé has barely any power over him the same way she does everyone else.

Plus, Ms. Mendeleiev is characterized and highlighted as the strictest, most unfair and most "Chloé-like" teacher and one thing is for sure, she definitely would have some "nice" opinions on Kim too and certainly wouldn't hold back voicing those either. We don't need to see it on screen to know how she would treat certain students we know by now. And just like with Chloé, Kim probably isn't too bothered by Ms. Mendeleiev either besides being annoyed by her unfairness. I have no problem seeing how Marinette would find herself drawn to a person who isn't bothered by Chloé's and Ms. Mendeleiev bullying (because it's flying right over his head), something she has to constantly endure and feels very hurt by.

Also: if he already doesn't mind whatever they can do or say it to him, then the chances are good that he isn't very interested in whatever mean things they say about or do to others (meaning: Marinette) either. Logically, Marinette would find the thought of being with a person who won't listen to or believe everything bad being said about her ect VERY appealing.

- because of Kim not being bothered by the bully environment they are all in, he is probably by a good edge the most carefree and "fun" student/friend around. And fun is something Marinette certainly missed in the school environment or wished she could have despite the danger she's constantly in because of Chloé and the teachers.

- and one more thing I think is incredibly important: it's not like Marinette isn't SEEING right in front of her eyes that Kim has bully characteristics too. They immediately showed that through the old dynamic between Kim and Max:

Socqueline is right in her concern when she doesn't want Marinette to get closer to Kim because she can see that he behaves in ways that clearly will clash with everything Chloé puts her through. But the thing is, Marinette is not stupid. She knows that but she didn't minded it and was even drawn to Kim because she saw that whatever Kim is doing that resembles Chloé's bullying isn't done by him with the intention of bullying.

It is realistic that Marinette would find comfort in a person like that in her circumstances because Kim is openly showing his worst (yes, one should acknowledge here that is was clearly shown that Kim by himself would have never done to Marinette what he did. Even he double checked with Chloé if she was sure that Marinette would like a prank like that) and therefore Marinette knows (or thought) that his worst therefore can't be truly dangerous to her. And may I say, feeling like the worst the other person can/will do to you not being something you have to fear because you don't concider their worst dangerous to you IS something humans are naturally very attracted to. This perfectly checks out, Marinette’s rose-colored glasses just.. overlooked a bit too much potential danger in good faith.

What mattered most to past Marinette in that moment is that she can't see any malice in his actions and intentions. And because of that she didn't minded the thought of putting up with Kim's more negative characteristics. She knew this isn't the same as with Chloé.

This is also one major factor of why Kim's prank messed Marinette up so much and why that should have been properly acknowledge by the episode because Chloé alone didn't cause this. Kim as a person and the fact that he sorta-bullies without malice was just as important. Marinette made a clear-cut distinction between Chloé's bully behavior and Kim's and was drawn to him because in her eyes his kindness/ not maliciousness outweighed the negative.

BUT then Chloé as an outside force came along and took Kim - who is one of the few students not intimidated by Chloe and actually finds her charming - and his bullying without maliciousness and turned his regular "danger-level" up to an eleven by using his kindness/ and stupidness against Marinette.

Kim's kindness and not maliciousness may have outweighed his negative character traits and because of that Marinette wouldn't have minded at all putting up with it since she knew that Kim himself isn't a danger to her the way Chloé is, but the thing that truly traumatized Marinette is having wittnessed that a person's kindness or low danger-level doesn't stop the world around them to use and turn their kindness into something else and into a weapon against her. It's when even kindness looses it's purity and therefore can't be trusted anymore because of bad people corrupting it and the good person (this is literally the same base structure as what Gabriel does to the akuma victims Marinette has to save)

And concidering that this is exactly one of the true major issues Marinette has with pursuing Adrien romantically and which hold her back from accepting his kindness towards her as true and loving as it is - something she is even directly referring to and calling out in this very episode! - one would think this episode would have prioritized highlighting it instead of just blaming everything on Chloé and Chloé alone because it's easy. Like, that was the point!

Please point it out and not just the Chloé part! If there was one narrative half that could have remained in the surface-level subtext, it should have been the Chloé part and not the one directly explaining to us alot of major reasons why Marinette behaves around Adrien AND Chat Noir the way she does and most importantly: why Adrien/Chat Noir is inherently DIFFERENT and therefore never truly off-putting to her no matter how similar some points I just listed get.

But that is a whole analysis for itself and it's way past midnight now so I'll add it on another day.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale's Thoughts: Derision

So the new Episode dropped a bombshell. It revealed just how much Marinette's past impacted her.

And before I write out everything

I will be talking the Good and the Bad

Spoilers obviously

So to make this as simple as possible.

Chloé bullied Marinette for years. While most of the school students were terrified of Chloé. Even the teachers and Principal were afraid to do ANYTHING regarding Chloé. Considering how much influence her father as Mayor had.

Socqueline was like an older protective sister to Marinette. During this time, Marinette developed a crush on Kim, his Himbo butt. Chloé found out about that and used it as an opportunity. Using Kim's inability to tell when something is too far, goes along with Chloé's idea for a prank.

This results in Marinette thinking Kim was serious about a relationship only to be offered a box full of bugs and causing her to fall into a pool as Chloé mocked her. Thus explaining Marinette's MASSIVE trauma on trust and why she plans out everything, why she distrusts any friend of Chloé and why she must know everything about someone before she can let herself confess.

Now this is sort of crucial as it explains why Marinette is how she is. As well as why even though things are going great with Adrien she cant fully embrace it.

Lets start with

THE GOOD:

This allows us to explain a lot of Marinette's insecurity and mistrust. Marinette wanting to NEVER let herself be caught off guard also explains why she is so gunho about planning everything. It also give support on why she was so HARSH to Adrien in Origins. He embodies nearly everything she swore to be against falling for. Mysterious boy, Friend of Chloé, and hiding things. Adrien was Marinette's antithesis as a person to fall for... YET SHE DOES ANYWAY. Showing how good of a person Adrien is, and how Marinette's heart can feel that truth within her. It also explains why Marinette was so obsessive in learning EVERY single thing she could about adrien. It wasnt because she was obsessive or hyperfocusing, she was so traumatized from the pool incident she never wants to be caught in such a position again.

This also goes to show how Socqueline was more of an impactful person to Marinette. But does make me question why she would not even be MENTIONED in season 1 (aside from the obvious that this was tacked on this season). But also explains why Marinette keeps her hair like that, as a sign of respect to Socqueline.

This also shows how great Adrien and Marinette are together. Adrien is ready to defend Marinette, and he is willing to go to great lengths to protect her. (Even kill). It was great to see Adrien be so understanding and wanting to make sure she is comfortable every step of the way. And it just adds so much to Origins.

The Bad:

It really just makes almost everyone else involved seem really awful.

Chloé and Sabrina being such awful people to her that you would think Marinette would NEVER let them touch a miraculous, even if she was desperate. Kim too but... she never initially chose Kim and/or likely repressed that trauma filled moment as a mental defense mechanism. But definitely doesnt explain Chloé and Sabrina.

Damocles, Mendeleiev and even Sabine dont come off that good. Sabine only getting a few points by having Socqueline step in to watch over Marinette. Now I heard its hard to change schools in paris, but I think after 3 F***ING years Sabine and Tom would havve done something. So it really doesnt seem good here.

It also really lampoons all of season 2 and 3 for chloé's development. All those appeals of genuine emotion. Nope, always evil and vile. The fact Marinette and the rest of the class even TOLERATED Chloé is straight CAP.

Kim also just loses a ton of likability here. I dont care how oblivious you are, WHY would you think Marinette would enjoy a prank at HER expense, especially when suggested by someone like Chloé? Did Kim really not get Chloé was evil?

This episode also makes episodes such as Animaestro so much worse. Marinette KNEW Chloé's type of pranks and still went along with it. Like even if you repress that traumatic event, the 3+ years of bullying. Marinette's reason for NOT choosing her in Loveater suddenly feels WAY more justified and NOT a mistake. Girl has trauma.

Marinette's empathetic nature towards Chloé now seems completely foolish. Anyone that knew Chloé should be convinced she is a hell spawn.

The fact Lila is friends with Chloé should put everyone on red alert.

This really makes me wonder how Marinette can even be remotely understanding of Chloé. It also makes Maledikator SO MUCH WORSE. Everyone was completely valid in Partying. Like damn.

Though ignoring Chloé, I guess the main thing is that this flashback brings up things that clash so hard with previous seasons and episodes. In origins, it made it seem like marinette had no friends. But in truth, Marinette did have a friend, even if she wasnt in the same year. I know not everyone knows of the prank going too far thanks to Socqueline, but Kim seemed more than happy to talk about the prank. You dont think word spread through his dumbass mouth?

______________________________________________________________

Overall the episode brings up a lot of interesting tidbits about Marinette's character and is a net gain for the Adrinette relationship. But at the cost of previous canon and brings forth more problems than it solves.

I wish this was actually a two part episode where we could have gotten more to flesh things out. Maybe explain that Marinette feels guilty over Socqueline being suspended and stopped talking to her for a while. Or maybe that after the big prank. Socqueline showed up to Chloé's place and told her to back off since now there was NOTHING holding her back from an ass beating. There is more I feel like could have been done.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

IOTA Reviews: Jubilation

So far, Season 5 has been pretty decent for the most part. Sure, there have already been a handful of plotholes and retcons (to the point where I'm honestly thinking of starting a retcon counter in the future), but at the very worse, the first three episodes were below average at worst. But now we have to see how the Akuma of the day formula will play out now. Can it bring new life to this show, or is that nothing more than a pipe dream?

Let's get into the fourth (chronologically the fourth) episode of Miraculous Ladybug's fifth season: Jubilation

The episode starts off with Marinette going for a jog, and shockingly, it isn't in her pajamas, but rather, clothing appropriate for running. She stops to see an advertisement for the Alliance rings, and reminds the audience that she's totally not in love with Adrien anymore because it cost her most of the Miraculous. Marinette is about to continue running, when she sees her principal, Mr. Damocles, dressing up at the superhero, the Owl, while attempting to save a cat from a billboard... even though he learned his lesson all the way back in his spotlight episode, “The Dark Owl”. Before Marinette has the chance to save him from his incompetence, another girl dressed as Ladybug saves Mr. Damocles, though Marinette recognizes her as an old friend. Both “heroes” run off, but Marinette has an idea of who the fake Ladybug is.

Marinette: That fake Ladybug from this morning, I think it was Socqueline, a school friend from last year. Knowing her, I’m sure she means well. But I have to convince her to stop putting herself in danger like that.

So basically, we're repeating the civilian plotline of “The Dark Owl”, but this time, with two different heroes. I'm also confused as to why we've never heard of Socqueline until Season 5, especially if Marinette already knows her. It's not as egregious or forced as Zoe's introduction, but it's weird that Marinette has never brought her up, not even to Tikki or Alya.

Also, why the hell does she look like Marinette? It was at least understandable to reuse Adrien's character model for Felix because they were related, but these two are just friends, and Socqueline doesn’t even have the same name most fans use for the PV Ladybug, Bridgette. What, did you think changing her name would make the reference more subtle? Oh yeah, and even though we already have two Asian characters with the same surname, Socqueline’s last name is also Wang. Because just like the mayor and ice cream man sharing the same first name, this isn’t confusing in the slightest.

Socqueline works at a local arts and crafts store, and before Marinette can ask her for why she's pretending to be Ladybug, she pretends to be buying paint first... even though she could just transform into Ladybug, walk in and say “Hey, I heard you've been impersonating me, so stop it before you get yourself killed, idiot”. But then I guess we wouldn't get an explanation as to what Alliance can do. Like we saw in “Multiplication”, it's basically an Alexa in ring form that totally isn't a front for supervillain activity. Marinette and Socqueline talk about Adrien, and Socqueline assumes the two are a couple after Marinette talks about how close they are, when all Marinette does is recap the whole thing about his mother “disappearing” and that he doesn't want to be a model. Wow, you really know him, don't you?

Eventually, the conversation goes back to Socqueline dressing up as Ladybug.

Marinette: Well, it’s a good thing you’re not trying to be a superhero, because it’s very dangerous to do the same thing they do when you don’t have magical powers and supersuits!

Socqueline: Yeah… Well, what if it’s a relief for Ladybug to have people help her?

Marinette: No way would she want that. It’s too risky!

Socqueline: Yes, but you gotta know when to step in. That’s the only way you can change things in life!

Marinette: I know. You told me that last year, but in this circumstance, it’s Ladybug’s job to take risks, and no one else’s! Because if everyone takes risks, then Ladybug may have to take more risks in order to deal with their risks, which is even riskier!

Mr. Damocles: Sounds like someone’s jealous because she wants to be a superhero.

Marinette: I do not! I’m Marinette! I’m very happy to be a normal girl, with a normal life, AND SO SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE!

Admittedly, this is a decent argument for Marinette and Socqueline to have, but I feel like they're kind of oversimplifying it. Yes, it's obvious that Socqueline and Mr. Damocles can't do much to help Ladybug without any powers, but that doesn't rule out Ladybug getting other allies in the form of local law enforcement or even other heroes with high-tech gadgets like Batman. It's also strange that the whole deal with Marinette last season was that she wasn't willing to trust anyone like Cat Noir, so wouldn't it make sense to call back to that, and consider getting help from people in other ways, like moral support?

While Socqueline tries to console Mr. Damocles, some of the dinosaurs from “Rocketear” break out, so Marinette quickly transforms into Ladybug to catch them again, but while she does so, she accidentally brings Socqueline's Alliance ring with her. Turns out that, shock of all shocks, Gabriel is secretly monitoring the Alliance rings, and the data gathered from the step counter app registers the user as moving around far beyond human capabilities. Gabriel obviously assumes that Socqueline is Ladybug, and transforms into Monarch, where we see how the new Akuma routine will go for the season. Sensing Mr. Damocles' negative emotions from believing he can't be a superhero, Monarch uses Kaalki's Voyage to send his Akuma towards one of his masks. When it reaches Mr. Damocles, Monarch uses his Alliance ring to grant him Daizzi's Gift, turning him into Darker Owl.

Darker Owl is basically just the same as Dark Owl, but with some shinier parts, and instead of the campier Batman he was originally themed after, he has a sightly deeper voice, not unlike Christian Bale's interpretation of the character. Nothing special, but compared to reusing past Akuma designs, at least an effort was made to make him look different.

Darker Owl breaks into the paint shop, believing Monarch's claim that Socqueline is Ladybug. Using one of his gadgets with the Pig Miraculous' gift, he traps Socqueline in her fantasy to be recognized as a hero by the real Ladybug and Cat Noir. Before she was trapped however, she secretly used her Alliance ring to trick Darker Owl into revealing where the Akuma is.

Of course, like a concerning amount of episodes before it, we finally get Adrien's first scene, where he's just playing video games until he learns about the Akuma, transforming into Cat Noir. Both heroes arrive to stop Darker Owl, who has taken Socqueline as a hostage, and while Cat Noir saves Socqueline, Ladybug summons her Lucky Charm, an old fashioned alarm clock.

After Cat Noir saves Socqueline, both him and Ladybug are hit by Gift, where their shared fantasy is beating Darker Owl and finding Monarch's business card in Mr. Damocles' jacket. After the two defeat Monarch and get the Miraculous back, they grow closer together, and eventually... get married... even though they're still teenagers.

Okay, that's very concerning, especially since Cat Noir's “suit” is just the Cat Blanc model with green eyes, but it's not like they're going to become parents too, right?

Oh.

Ohhhhhh....

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh nooooooo.....

Yep. The writers REALLY didn't think this through. I get that it didn't really happen, but I don't get why they had to make the fantasy of Ladybug and Cat Noir being all about them starting a family when they can't even afford new models to show that they're older so they could avoid these implications.

Putting that aside, the fantasy is decently put together, but it's nothing special compared to something like “Perchance to Dream” from Batman: The Animated Series. I like the recurring surreal imagery with the alarm clocks, and the babies looking like dolls could be seen as a way to show how fake this all is. On the other hand, I don't get whose fantasy this is exactly. Yeah, it's implied that since the same Gift bullet was fired at both Ladybug and Cat Noir, they're sharing an amalgamation of their fantasies (Ladybug defeating Monarch and getting the Miraculous back and Cat Noir starting a family with Ladybug), but it feels like more focus is given to Cat Noir's fantasy even though he didn't even get to do anything before the Akuma showed up. They even have the scene with him hesitating to leave the fantasy when it should have been Ladybug struggling to reject it. In fact, I think the reason this fantasy sequence rings hollow for me is because it doesn't really connect to the idea that Marinette wants a normal life. Wouldn't it make more sense for Marinette's fantasy to be a world where Socqueline or Alya is Ladybug instead of her? You could easily alternate between Marinette's fantasy where she lives a mundane life and alternate it with Cat Noir's fantasy where he embraces the superhero lifestyle. It would have made more sense given that this was a Marinette-centric episode,

Even after the two heroes break out, it's Cat Noir who snaps at Darker Owl, not Ladybug. You could have easily had a scene where Cat Noir is the one who has to restrain Ladybug from getting too aggressive while fighting Darker Owl to show how reliable of a partner he is. Instead, well... remember how last episode, Cat Noir felt a lot of guilt for accidentally Cataclysming Monarch when Monarch let himself take the hit? Yeah, he almost Cataclysms Darker Owl out of anger. Yeah, he’s not thinking straight, and he stops at the last minute, but it makes him look like a real hypocrite. It also doesn’t really reassure the audience that he's now the only ally Ladybug has at the moment. This moment would have made more sense if the roles were reversed, with Cat Noir begging Ladybug to not hurt Darker Owl because Monarch was the one who taunted them with their ideal lives.

Ladybug purifies the Akuma, gives Mr. Damocles a useless Magical Charm, fixes the minor damage Darker Owl caused, Daizzi is sent back to Monarch's lair, and nobody ever acknowledges that Cat Noir almost killed a man.

After Socqueline apologizes to Ladybug, and Ladybug gives a vague statement of wanting Socqueline to find another way to help, she goes back home as Marinette. Sabine offers her an Alliance ring, but Marinette decides against it, mostly because of what happened earlier.

The episode then ends to Ladybug talking with Cat Noir about what happened with Darker Owl, how he got the power of the Pig Miraculous, and what happened in their fantasy.

Cat Noir: Ladybug, that power of Jubilation... it’s supposed to show us our deepest desires, isn’t it?

Ladybug: Yes.

Cat Noir: But that was... that wasn’t real, right?

Ladybug: Tell me about it. The wedding, babies, totally… fake.

Cat Noir: Are you sure?

Ladybug: Monarch… must’ve altered it somehow, to trick us. Yeah, that’s got to be it.

Cat Noir: Of course, otherwise, it would be totally super weird, wouldn’t it?

Ladybug: Right. Totally… super… weird.

Yeah, calling what you two lived through “weird” is an understatement.

Overall, this episode was just mediocre, and other than the climax, there wasn't much for me to talk about.

Socqueline as a character confuses me. Do we really need another member of Marinette's friend group, especially when you could have easily replaced Socqueline with another character? Seriously, someone like Alya, Mylene, Kagami, Zoe, or even Chloe would have worked better, as their personalities and motivations would fit a story like this. She's just an unnecessary addition to an already bloated cast of characters.

I will say I liked how the villain side of things was handled. In a world where the use of technology in our daily lives is more common, the idea of the Alliance rings being a way for Gabriel to monitor the public is pretty clever. I’m still confused as to why he even needs to use a Miraculous to give Akumas more powers when he can already do that with Akumas in the first place, but I like how the conflict seems to be ramping up.

I also don't get the point of this conflict, especially since we already did it three seasons ago. Back in “The Dark Owl”, it was unnecessary because Ladybug and Cat Noir were already doing a good job at fighting Hawkmoth's Akumas, but now, he's stronger than ever, and they need all the help they can get. Yeah, Mr. Damocles and Socqueline were endangering themselves by trying to help others, but at least they're doing something after everyone just gave up preparing for Monarch's new wave of Akumas in “Multiplication”. But then again, at least Ladybug didn't call either of them entitled for actually wanting to help people instead of focusing on their own selfish desires like the “hero” in Kamen Rider Geats.

Even the resolution feels tacked on. In “The Dark Owl”, the ending was similar, with Mr. Damocles choosing to stop trying to be a hero, but instead focusing on doing community service, helping people in his own way. Here? Ladybug tells Socqueline to help someone without endangering herself, and we don't get any follow-up on that, not even with Mr. Damocles. It feels more tacked on than anything else.

It doesn't help that despite the episode hinting at Marinette wanting a normal life, the actual highlight of the episode, the fantasy sequence, doesn't really connect to those wishes, as Marinette stays transformed the whole time. From an out of universe perspective, it's obviously because Cat Noir and Monarch can't find out who Ladybug is, but it's not clear why her fantasy is like that. You could have easily thrown in something like that rule they established last episode of Miraculous magic not being able to interfere with other Miraculous, so Monarch and Darker Owl have to make up their own ideal fantasy for Ladybug and Cat Noir to live in because they can't completely read their minds. Well that, and also, DON'T SHOW TWO TEENAGERS BECOMING PARENTS WITHOUT EVEN AGING, BECAUSE IT GIVES OFF THE VIBE THAT THEY HAD SEX.

This episode wasn't really terrible, more boring than anything else. At least I had something to talk about with the past three episodes, but here? Outside of the fantasy, there's not much else to say.

THE BIGGEST IDIOT OF THE EPISODE IS... MR. DAMOCLES

Even though he already learned his lesson three seasons ago, he still didn't get that a man of his age and physique wasn't fit to be a superhero. At least Socqueline was established to be in good shape for her age. On top of that, he easily gave away his cover (even if it was obvious, the joke before was that everyone else pretended to not know who he is) at the drop of a hat, and when he was supposedly confronted with Ladybug's civilian identity, he didn't think to just rip her earrings off, and spent way too much time talking before he zapped her with a Gift bullet.

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

Why they didn’t keep in touch

Given we now know Socqueline was a big part of Marinette’s life and was quite possibly the only person in the entire school who did not fear Chloe, its understandable why Marinette wore pigtails similar to Socqueline’s. Marinette respected Socqueline, seeing her as a protector who always fought for what was right, and even though Socqueline was no longer part of  Collège Françoise Dupont, Marinette decided to wear the same pigtails Socqueline was known to have, in an attempt to always remember her and everything she did for her. However, despite their close friendship, we never saw Socqueline or Marinette keep in touch in the new school year, but the reason for their lack of contact was simply a very common change between two friends who inevitably realized they would soon be subjected to the major change of being far apart. 

In Socqueline’s final year at  Françoise Dupont , she and Marinette both came to terms with the fact that they would soon be to far away to be actively part of each others lives.  People lose contact when they're in different schools and lose the convenience of seeing each other every day, but despite the major change of being in different schools, Socqueline never stopped worrying over how Marinette would handle life at school without her, but despite her worry, Marinette understood that Socqueline's life could not revolve around her and protecting her at all times. Marinette felt like a burden to her friend, as a result, she did not attempt to contact Socqueline for fear of being a hindrance to her. Marinette needed to find the courage to defend herself sooner or later, but this was ultimately something she would not yet find within herself until she became Ladybug and learned to help defend others. 

It’s just like Socqueline said, "Every good fight is worth fighting for, we shouldn't be influenced by our chances of winning, but by whether or not it's the right thing to do", you just gotta know when to step in, that's the only way to change things. 

And as we all saw in "Origins", Marinette would take Socqueline's words and learn to do just that, the day she realized she needed to set aside her worries and take a chance to step in and save Alya.

Over the new school year, Marinette would find the courage and confidence to stand up to not just Chloe, but many others as well, why? Because Marinette knew it was the right thing to do and shouldn't be something she should hold off on because she feared her chances of success were low, she had to try . 

But despite everything that happened in the new year, Marinette and Socqueline, did not contact each other once, why? Because in the end, they were both occupied living their own individual lives, they both had their own responsibilities to deal with, their own families to help out, their own relationships to maintain and they both had their own goals in life that they aimed to achieve and focus on, all of which were things that simply did not need the two of them to be together for. 

 Life was busy for them, they were growing up, and sometimes that means growing up without certain friends beside you. When they finally did meet in "Jubilation", they weren't upset for not being in contact more often, they were just happy to see each other after so long.

[iwasbored777]

I have a theory on why Socqueline's hair looks so much like Marinette's - it's actually Marinette who's copying her. In the trailers I saw Derision scenes that take place in the past where Marinette had a bun instead of the current two pigtails while Socqueline had pigtails just like now. Socqueline was the only person who could stand up to Chloé so I think Marinette was trying to become more like Socqueline which means become able to stand up for herself so she wore the same hairstyle. No one's hairstyles were changed except for Marinette's.

(pls don't tell me if it's true or not you who read it, I just have this theory in my head that I had to get out of my system)