#Fandom discourse

[antiship-ciel]

Having a dni list isn't being entitled, if you seriously think that then you need to do some serious self reflecting.

[imtryingmanimreallytrying]

fanfic is for the fandom and doesn't need to be at a certain level of writing to be worthy of existing guys

At some point "fanfic can be as good as professional writing" became "fanfic should be as good as professional writing" and that's caused major damage to fandom spaces.

[bebx]

[glitter-stained]

You can acknowledge that Jason has done fucked up things without this being a condemnation of his entire philosophy btw. You can acknowledge both the harm he's caused and the intentions behind his actions as two different things. You can acknowledge the flaws in his writing wrt psychophobia and mental illness and how much of a disservice they are to his character and you can acknowledge how his mental illness muddies the waters in terms of ethical responsibility and you can express your frustration with fandom exaggerating Jason's misdeeds while ignoring how the other characters harm him without it meaning that you're making him a martyr and disregarding his every flaw.

Most importantly, you can believe that murder is sometimes an acceptable solution and still be an intelligent person. You can believe that Jason is right about the Joker without that meaning that you are dumb or haven't read his comics. I know many people who have philosophical stances I disagree with while deeply respecting their knowledge and intelligence. And I find the tendency of the people on this website to discredit jason fans who agree or partially agree with his stance on killing as ignorant, dumb, fake fans is deeply insulting and displays a concerning lack of open-mindedness. Questions of conflict between deontology and consequentialist philosophies date back thousands of years and have been the subject of intense debates between very smart people for a long, long time. Assuming that because someone is on the opposite side of you in a conflict, then they must be simply be stupid/uninformed is a deeply arrogant and ignorant take. I find that people have a tendency to water down discourse about Jason specifically into this idea that if they word their position simply enough (with ideas like "i don't know how to explain to you that murder is bad") then people will immediately realize that they've been looking at it wrong- as though we've all merely forgotten that murder isn't okay. Because any sort of opposing idea- like for example the belief that murder can sometimes be okay- is so inconceivable to them that they simply assume we must be too dumb and are falling into empathy bias and are simply forgetting that golden rule. Because it doesn't occur to them that their golden rules might not be universal.

Shutting oneself out of that perspective taking and stroking one's own ego with the assumption that anybody who disagrees is idiotic and ignorant is an incredibly narrow-minded position to assume, and expressing that sentiment out loud is deeply insulting. You can argue that my moral positions, which you disagree with, are a moral failure on my part; this is part of the point of ethics as a philosophy. But don't bring my knowledge and intelligence into it, those have nothing to do with my ethics. You still owe the people you disagree with respect.

[johnny-depp-is-loved]

Reblog if you are employed / have a full time job and are a fanfic writer who still actively writes and posts new chapters / new works.

My friend says you can’t be an adult, have a full time job and be a fanfic writer at the same time, because you’ll have to sacrifice your writing, fandom activities, for your career. And I just… don’t think that’s the case? At all? Unless I’m missing something? Unless I’m doing it wrong by being employed and still writing fanfics?

[beth-squared]

Okay last time posting and reposting nothing but discourse, but people who think ships dictate your morality are so weird, but it's even weirder finding them in the Rick and Morty fandom.

"Enjoying a show where they have flat out said an ableist slur, had multiple adult x child relationships, canonical selfcest/incest yuri, have two characters make a giant incest baby, and make multiple jokes about a peepaw getting with his grandson is fine, but if you make content with *ANYTHING LISTED ABOVE* you're a disgusting freak who needs to get out down like a DOG"

Get real.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

[thecorefrisk]

You guys only value female characters to the extent that they serve you. Not the plot. You.

[jowithavianwings]

Odysseus hates Voldemort, not because he tried to kill a baby, but because he’s so damn incompetent about it.

Odysseus has been there too. But when he got a prophecy about a baby being his downfall, he yeets it out the window like the competent mf he is.

[potatowithinternet]

Kaz "I would have come for you" Brekker did not find Inej "I will have you without your armor" Ghafa's parents, and buy her her own pirate ship to murder evil men, just for you to say that they "didn't end up together" at the end of the book. Sit down.

[wenclair-more-like-whenclair]

All it takes for a character to be interpreted as heterosexual is simply for the character to exist. A character can never kiss a member of the opposite gender, hook up with one, or show any signs of attraction and still be viewed as straight. Meanwhile, two members of the same gender can have the most intimate onscreen relationship, flirt, check each other out, show visible signs of being in love with the other, and somehow none of that is enough to even SUGGEST that they might be queer.

What a gross double standard. Sexuality is not “straight until proven otherwise” like so many believe it to be. Newsflash to all the straight normies out there, your favorite non labeled, sexuality unconfirmed character in your favorite show is NOT STRAIGHT just bc they haven’t been confirmed as queer. Use your fucking brains for once. It’s all about diving into media and picking up on subtext until that subtext suggests queerness. Then, suddenly, everyone loses their fucking ability to interpret a piece of media. Have you considered that: if all signs point to them being gay then maybe they actually really are just gay???

[patchwork-crow-writes]

How did you survive all those years of (k)ralsei hate... it's been less than a month of people misinterpreting everything the game is giving us about my Character and I'm going to explode into glitter

Ah... I'm sorry to hear that, dear Anon. Always tough when the popular fandom view of a character doesn't align with your own... doubly so when they're being unfairly vilified for it. May I ask who the Character in question is?

As for me... well, my honest answer is that I saw the way the discourse was turning and tried to provide something approaching a counterbalance to it... but my voice didn't really carry much weight at that time, so nothing really came of it. And that was frustrating, especially when I could see talented artists and writers stop supporting the ship, and I suppose I couldn't blame them for that. It was a pretty dispiriting time for us Kralsei fans, for sure.

The thing is, though, even then I could see that a lot of the negativity surrounding Kralsei at that time was inferred from incomplete information (we were two chapters into a 7-chapter game). Assertions such as "Kris hates Ralsei", or "Ralsei is evil/manipulating Kris" or "Ralsei makes Kris uncomfortable because he looks like a carbon copy of their brother Asriel" didn't have much behind them except vibes, and combined with the seeming meta-heavy direction the story was going, questions were being asked about whether we were forcing Kris into something they did not want to participate in. I want to stress that these were entirely legitimate and valid questions to be asking, but somewhere along the way it became the default and the consensus across much of the fandom. And that was a real problem, because it completely choked out alternate viewpoints and ideas for almost four entire years - it simply wasn't talked about.

In any case, I decided to ignore all that and carry on writing about Kralsei, because I knew there was potential there and wanted people to see it. And now, with the new chapters giving us all this new information that disproves a lot of the old assumptions made, there's at least SOMETHING for people who are now expressing interest in the ship to look into and discuss. So I'd like to think my time wasn't wasted there, haha :P

The moral of this long-winded war tale, anon, is that sometimes, just because everyone is saying something, doesn't always make it true or correct. I hope that if we learn anything from this sorry tale, it's that we take a little more time and care and consider alternative viewpoints every now and then. It's the least we could do, isn't it? :)

[bebx]

“enemies to lovers as a fictional trope is harmful because it normalizes and romanticizes abuse and toxicity” my brother in Christ, touch. grass. they fuck while trying to murder each other and also they use each other’s blood as lube and yeah they look hot as fuck. what are you going to do about it?

[imaginariumwanderer]

ty for clarifying but do u not hate purelily then?

Oh no anon I still totally hate them :)

[matt0044]

I saw the backlash to RTD a million miles away the second he claimed to be back.

Not trying to be smug but with how The Reality War getting the business from the fandom, I think back to when it was Chibnall getting nearly the exact same demonization.

Sadest part is? The fandom championed RTD returning all the way back when Chibnall was wrapping up and I KNEW this exactly discourse would go down. How? Because of how the fandom was raising their hopes up so high that any kind of downward slope was going to be result in a crash land.

The problem has always been how, even if the showrunner is a fan themselves, they are bound to make some amount of fans mad because what they want to bring to the show isn't what said fans will want specifically. Even baring diversity or how bonkers Series 15 gotten, it was going to rub some people a very wrong way.

Hell, THIS HAPPENED THRICE!

Once when RTD's first run was getting weird with finales with The End of Time Part 2 being the weirdest.

Twice when Steven Moffat had Tumblr demanding his head on a pike with many-a-misquotes to objecting to how he portrayed the female characters during what some called the 2010s Feminist boom. And that wasn't even getting into the general subjectivity of how good his stories were.

And, of course, Chibnall who pissed off the exact opposite of the spectrum be it with his episodic storytelling and diverse cast starting with the Thirteenth Doctor herself.

While some who were normal about it gave measured criticisms, it's hard to deny that the reception was dominated by #GamerGate stragglers. And that was WAY before The Timeless Child.

Let me tell you, the next showrunner could be as far removed from being associated from any of these three and they would still have a dedicated hatedom within the first series if not their first episode. Because that's the nature of Doctor Who changing hands.

The head writer is going to have their own vision for the show that will change things from how the previous run did things. It might even retcon things be it with Gallifrey or the Doctor's past. But some fans are going to be left alienated in some shape of form, an occupational hazard t

And there's no easy solution for this but acting like one man, one unpopular story decision or whatnot has doomed Doctor Who. I heard it all before with Moffat and Chibnall or so forgive me if the boy crying wolf isn’t getting my time of day.

Hell, even if the future of the show is uncertain, it often comes down to external factors like the BBC and Disney+’s partnership or even how the show is marketed or lack thereof.

Guys. Let’s try to learn from The Fandom Menace’s shameless displays of depravity.