#also his relationship with his sister is literally zuko and azula

[burst-of-iridescent]

I hate when people say(*writers*) when zuko is an emo bad boy. When zuko acts "emo" and "badboy" as they say it's him reacting to his trauma and abuse as a kid(most of time. Zuko is still badass. But badboy no). Is it an excuse? No. But when zuko is acting that way in canon, his obsession with honor, his yelling, his moodiness, his short temper. That is the product of having his empathy literally beaten/burned out of him by his father(and mocked and emotionally abused by Azula). The reason Zuko is doing this whole thing is because he wants to please his father. Become someone he's not. His struggle of who his father wants to be with who he is. It's because of the abuse of his father and his family. As the series goes on you get more and more flashes of the person Zuko was and the person he can become. By the end of the series it's such a great contrast and Zuko is much more happier because he's with the gaang. His family. He got out of that abusive situation he was in and finally became himself. A dorky, empathetic, caring, skilled swords men, a balanced person. Does he still have moments of anger? Yes. But over all Zuko becomes a fully balanced person.

gasp! but if we don't call zuko a bad boy, however will we make sure people don't get any ideas about shipping him with katara?

jokes aside, you're absolutely right and i roll my eyes so hard when people point to bad things zuko did, or his behaviour pre-redemption as indisputable proof of the kind of person he'd be post-redemption. like you said, a lot of zuko's actions and mannerisms before day of black sun is a direct result of the trauma he suffered, and though that doesn't excuse him - and neither does the show allow it to - discounting it entirely is to erase the abuse zuko endured and how that shaped him.

using the first half of book 3 as evidence of zuko being a supposed bad boy irks me in particular because a) the narrative makes it pretty clear that this is zuko as the worst version of himself, the opposite of everything he actually is and could be, and b) he is stuck in an abusive household at the mercy of his abusers, in an actively life-threatening situation.

zuko knows that he is in a situation where he has no real agency, freedom or control. he knows that aang is alive, that azula has turned him into a scapegoat and that his life will be forfeit if his father finds out the truth. that is an incredibly terrifying and stressful situation to be put in and it's worsened by the fact that he can't even admit it - not just because doing so would mean accepting that he gave up everything that actually mattered in the catacombs to gain nothing in return, but also because no one around him will allow him to do so.

his girlfriend can't understand his experiences or his turmoil and doesn't seem to particularly want to, brushing off his anxieties and encouraging him to stay the course. he is manipulated by his father and gaslighted by his sister, aware deep down that he is entirely under their control and that they have a vested interest in keeping him helpless, yet forced to pretend as though nothing is wrong. he is isolated from the one person who could help - his uncle - physically and emotionally, both because visiting iroh puts zuko in danger, and because zuko's choices have created a rift in their relationship.

all of this compounds the psychological stress zuko is experiencing, forcing him into a constant state of fight-or-flight, and this context is vital to understanding many of the decisions he makes and how he behaves in the first half of book 3.

(this is why i don't agree with the take that hiring combustion man is an ooc moment for zuko because even though i think the idea of combustion man himself is stupid - not to mention disrespectful to the hindu origins it's pulling from - it's a fundamentally desperate move, and zuko at this point is more desperate than he's ever been.)

that's why it's unlikely that zuko post-redemption would behave similarly since many of the factors that contributed to his anger, hostility and moodiness would no longer exist! judging zuko's future behaviour based on a time when he was constantly abused, gaslighted and threatened is just not an accurate or fair means of measurement, especially since we know what he's like at his best. the zuko we see with the gaang still has a bit of a short fuse, sure, but he's also sincere, honest, awkward, shy and far happier than he's ever been. because shocker, people tend not to act the same way in healthy, supportive environments as they do in abusive, traumatic ones. who would've thought?

people who make this argument also usually tend to compare zuko to aang, especially to glorify how aang remains cheerful and peaceful despite his trauma, and... no. just no. first of all, the show barely gives a fuck about developing aang's trauma the way it does zuko's so of course it seems to affect him less, and secondly, there's something to be said about how trauma responses like aang's are a lot more palatable and comfortable for audiences than responses like zuko's, or even katara's in the southern raiders.

anger or moodiness, or wanting to punish the people who hurt you, are not inherently wrong ways to react when you've been wronged and traumatized. praising aang for remaining cheerful and forgiving while calling zuko a bad boy for being angry and moody implies a sense of moral superiority that comes with reacting to trauma in the "right" way, which is both inaccurate and insensitive.

zuko will never be aang, and that's fine. he doesn't have to be. he ends the show reclaiming everything his abusers tried to take from him, having found himself and his destiny, in a place of healing that is all his own. that is an incredibly meaningful and powerful narrative, and the last thing zuko deserves is to have all of his complexity and development stripped just to be reduced to the tired trope of a "bad boy" when he was never one in the first place.

[firelxdykatara]

I too ship Zutara and think they should have been canon. Although for me it's important to know how such a rewrite would go down. I tried to think, and I'm lost.

After Mai betrayed Azula for him, will he just go "sorry, not interested"? He isn't obligated to date her because of this, but her redemption hinges on Zuko and I don't see it being satisfying if he ends up rejecting her after this.

I thought the solution would be to rewrite her arc in boiling rock to make her have a moral realization, but then the problem with Maiko is practically solved. Their relationship wasn't salvaged by her redemption because last time they talked, Mai still didn't understand what's wrong with the Fire Nation and only changed because she loved Zuko. So how do you make it both satisfying & logical?

With Kataang the problem is the Chakras. The problem with the original (in my opinion) is that after he opened his chakra, letting go of his attachment to Katara, he's still attached (forcing a kiss on eip). Should TCoD get rewritten so that Azula shoots him before he opens it? Then why wouldn't he just open it later? Maybe the chakra would be locked so he feels as though he doesn't need to overcome his attachment just yet. In that situation, how would his chakra even unlock? The stone thing felt like nonsense, so how would I do it?

So yeah I have no idea how to approach this. How would you? (Thanks)

I've been rotating this ask in the back of my head like a rotisserie chicken for a few days--it's interesting because I don't generally stop to think like, how would I write them out of these relationships, I either ignore the relationships completely (which isn't hard, they were barely footnotes in the cartoon) or play a little bit with jealous exes or something. Thinking about like, In A Perfect World where Bryke wasn't in charge of ATLA post-canon (because if zutara had been canon, you can be sure they would've made us regret it) is interesting, and I do have thoughts on how I'd handle their relationships in a rewrite.

(this got long, so the rest is beneath the cut)

Assuming you mostly want to keep canon intact, I think maiko would be the easiest to work around, given how little relevance their relationship has in canon. The problem with maiko as an endgame ship is that it was not set up that way--if it had been, it would not have begun entirely off-screen and their whole relationship would not have been a study in misery and utter inability to connect emotionally. His relationship with Mai was there to showcase just how much he had changed and how little he fit into the life he had been so sure he wanted more than anything since his banishment. It worked very well to highlight Zuko's growth--how that contrasted to Mai's lack of it and why she could not understand him even at his most open and vulnerable--and did not work nearly so well when she was shoved back with him in the epilogue, after he'd quite literally forgotten her existence (he never mentions her again after Boiling Rock, not even to say a word of mourning, considering he'd have every reason to believe she was killed for defying his sister).

I don't think you can fix this by giving Mai some moral realization, because there simply is no room for it. As @araeph says in the essay I linked:

As a character, Mai is very useful to the story during Zuko’s return, because she represents everything that Zuko gains by sticking by his father. A girl who cares about him; the ability to indulge her; the authority he has over others at the palace; we see it all in his interactions with Mai. But this makes Mai a tether to a life he has long outgrown. Her function is not to advance Zuko’s character development, but to obstruct it, which also unfortunately means that Mai gaining a full understanding of Zuko’s trials would be disadvantageous to the story. If she knew everything about him and still wanted him to stay, it would give Zuko more cause than he should have to remain in the Fire Nation, but if she knew and encouraged him to leave and join the Avatar, it would rob Zuko of the triumph of making this decision on his own. In other words, there are good narrative reasons for keeping Mai in the dark; it just doesn’t make their relationship any stronger.

The seeds of a genuine redemption arc (one that includes some sort of moral realization and change to her moral framework) for Mai would have to have been planted far earlier than five episodes from the end of the series, but doing so would have of necessity detracted from Zuko's own character arc and the realizations that he makes despite his attachment to Mai (or more specifically to their relationship, which I feel like he was clinging to more out of a sense of abject loneliness he couldn't shake rather than genuine feelings and emotional connection).

So, in my mind, since we're tackling this with an eye towards getting rid of maiko with the fewest ripples to the overall story anyway, the easiest way to do this would be make one slight change to the end of the Boiling Rock two-parter--have Ty Lee (who had always been the least gung-ho of the trio about bowing to Azula's whims and had to be textually threatened into joining her in the first place) save Zuko's life, and then have Mai (who showed the most genuine affection for Ty Lee anyway) save Ty Lee. I love Zuko more than I fear you always fell flat for me as some epic declaration of love, anyway, since a) Zuko is not around to hear it, and b) unlike Ty Lee, she never showed much fear of Azula to begin with, so it wasn't a very high bar to clear. It was a cool line that was entirely unearned, and I don't think it would be missed, there would be some cute mailee crumbs this way, and a throwaway line of getting them released from the prison after the war ended could wrap up their presence in the story pretty nicely.

Now, kataang is a little trickier, if only because the last leg of Aang's character arc is almost completely derailed by his refusal to let go of his possessive attachment to Katara, to the point where he never naturally reopens his chakras, he has to have the Rock of Destiny hit him in just the right place, and the deus ex lionturtle there to give him a way out of having to make a hard moral choice. (I've maintained for years that if you work the final act of your main character's overall arc in such a way that it could have been solved by one good session with a chiropractor, something got fucked along the way.)

The thing about Aang's chakras is that, narratively, his whole thing with Guru Pathik and leaving his training early to save his friends was basically his version of Luke running away from his training with Yoda on Degobah because of his Force vision, only to find out that his friends were in the process of rescuing themselves and then losing his hand because he hadn't completed the most crucial part of his training. What's missing, therefore, from the last act of Aang's character arc, is the return.

See, in Star Wars, Luke pretty explicitly makes the wrong choice when he chooses to prioritize saving his friends over attaining enlightenment and fully mastering the Force. It was the only choice he could have made, but it was still the wrong one--because, like Aang, his friends did not actually need him to save them, he actually almost makes it harder for them to get away by requiring them to save him because, like Aang, he loses a battle in a very critical way. This was a lesson he desperately needed to learn, and it is clear he has learned it by the time he makes it back to Degobah and witnesses the end of Yoda's life, his own enlightenment having already been reached.

But Aang never goes back to the Guru.

And the text refuses to allow us to sit with the fact that he made the wrong choice in prioritizing his attachment to Katara over his ability to master the Avatar State. He is actually narratively vindicated about it, because the plot bends itself into a pretzel so that he doesn't have to spend any time during the last book trying to reopen his chakras and regain access to the Avatar State, handed both in the final battle with no excess effort on his part, and handed the girl into the bargain. (The girl who never even wanted him, so far as we can tell from all the lack of cues she gave him that she actually returned his feelings.)

And I think this could have been solved with a few scattered scenes. Let Katara actually have some agency in her own romantic relationship (or lack thereof), insofar as noticing Aang's advances and clueing the audience in to how she actually feels. Let Aang struggle with the fact that he can't reach the Avatar State, that his mastery of the elements is in limbo because he can't access his full power, rather than ignoring all of this until the end of the show. If we're trying to keep the shape of the last season roughly the same, let Katara confront Aang about the invasion kiss.

This would have been the perfect time to establish that Katara actually does feel some type of way about Aang prior to the epilogue, and it could have saved us from the exceedingly cringey EIP kiss that Aang never apologized for. How it comes across now, of course, is that Katara basically pretends it never even happened, to the point where she doesn't even know what Aang is talking about during EIP until he reminds her--the death knell for any shot their relationship had at looking requited, because I can tell you, as someone who's been a teenage girl, if someone I had conflicted but burgeoning romantic feelings for had kissed me, I would not have completely forgotten about it only a few weeks later--and we never get any indication as to what she actually felt about the kiss (which was not mutual, despite what Aang's dialogue in the EIP scene implies) except for the fact that she looked away and frowned afterwards. (A change mandated by Bryke, who wanted to leave her feelings completely ambiguous; the original storyboards had her smiling to herself.)

So, with an eye towards wrapping up Aang's puppy love crush and establishing Katara's distinct lack of romantic feelings for him, have her talk to him about the kiss. A good frame of reference for this would be Meng's conversation with Aang in "The Fortuneteller", where she finally realizes that he doesn't like her in the same way she likes him. Katara and Aang's conversation about the invasion kiss could be a callback to this, with Aang having some important realizations--that just because Katara doesn't share his feelings doesn't mean she loves him any less, and just because he can't have her the way he wanted doesn't mean he has to love her any less, that she doesn't belong to him but that's ok, because she's still his family and they'll always have each other's backs. Which could have functioned well in helping him take another step towards unblocking his chakras. Going back to the Guru directly may not have worked, since by this point in the story we're hurtling towards the final confrontation and Sozin's Comet, but let Aang reflect on what the Guru told him with new understanding granted him by his experiences throughout the first half of the season.

To keep the stakes high and up the suspense, obviously, he shouldn't have fully unlocked his chakras and the AS before the final fight, but the seeds could be planted--little moments like a talk with Katara about the invasion kiss, maybe a little more empathy and understanding from him about why Katara needs closure in TSR, etc--and then, during the final fight, rather than hand him all the answers on a silver platter, have him almost lose. He still can't go full Avatar, he's out of time, he still doesn't know exactly what to do about Ozai given his own pacifism and desire to preserve that part of his culture--he tries to fight but he's pretty quickly overpowered. Idk how I would've animated this, and maybe it wouldn't have looked as cool for the final fight, but the true climax of the finale was the Zuko and Azula agni kai anyway, so it hardly matters--I'm picturing him doing the rock-shield thing and going into a brief meditative state, where he finally achieves the enlightenment necessary to unlock the AS on his own, no rock of chiropracty necessary. And at this point, I'd give Ozai a Disney Death, since leaving him alive causes more problems than it solves and it's not necessary for Aang to kill him for him to die--they're fighting on a mountain ffs--but if you don't want to change that part then him figuring out energy bending as part of becoming a fully realized Avatar would at least feel more earned than the lionturtle just handing it to him. (And that could've been foreshadowed better by seeding the idea for it earlier in the season.)

After all of that, particularly if you up the emotions during the agni kai and have Zuko and Katara kiss there (or something less explicitly romantic but still tender, like a brief forehead touch), it'd feel pretty natural to have a just friends ending for Aang and Katara. Maybe a brief, slightly awkward but ultimately amiable conversation if Zuko and Katara had a ~thing at their final fight, and then the final shot of the series could be the gaang all together, maybe zutara holding hands or Katara resting her head on his shoulder or something, but since they already kissed there wouldn't feel like a need to end the whole show on romance, something which I've always felt missed the point of the series.

And then, y'know, after that, the world's your oyster! This is how I'd do it if I were trying to keep the bulk of the final season intact. Of course, breaking it all down to its component pieces and rebuilding from the ground up is also an option, but that'd probably be a longer post lol.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Have you noted that no one from Azula's family was shown to express love and affection towards her?

That is mostly true. Ozai's affection is clearly conditional (and full on manipulation at worse, like we see in the finale), Ursa canonically favors Zuko to the point that we never see her spending any alone time with Azula like she did with Zuko, and while Iroh gave her a toy like he did to Zuko the toy in question was so OBVIOUSLY wrong for a kid like Azula that it's comical AND show's he did not really know his niece at all.

But there is a constant exception.

Zuko's relationship with Azula is complicated. He clearly admires her strength and power, but he hates how she uses it. She lied to him many times, was seen apparently cheering Ozai on during the Agni Kai, tried to have him imprisoned and even said she'd celebrate being an only child - and then allows him to come home as a hero after Ba Sing Se, even though SHE had the control of the Dai Li and was not yet aware Aang could have survived, meaning she had nothing to gain from it.

And when she lets him know that if he's caught talking to Iroh people might think he is a traitor too, and explicitly says "Believe it or not, I'm actually looking out for you" Zuko drops his innitial suspicion that she wanted something and that's why she was helping him.

On The Beach, he just follows her when she say their old family home is depressing and they shouldn't waste their time there. When she's asking him who she is angry at, she mentions herself and Zuko explicitly says that is not the case.

He doesn't trust her and know she has a tendency to mock or full on lie to him... yet when he wants to know about Fire Lord Sozin he asks her about it, and lets it slide when she mocks him by saying he should make sure the royal painter got his good side - for a character as quick to anger as Zuko, that is a big deal. In Nightmares and Daydreams he also goes to her to find out if he'll be allowed at the war meeting.

More importantly:

1 - Iroh's infamous "She's crazy and needs to go down" line was only said because ZUKO, without anyone putting that idea in his head before, suddenly went "I know what you're going to say. She's my sister and I should be trying to get along with her"

2 - Zuko only jumped into the fight in Ba Sing Se when Azula was being cornered by Aang and Katara.

3 - Zuko looked genuinely shocked and even distressed when she was falling off that cliff. He just sounded so shaken saying "She's... not gonna make it..."

4 - In the writer's own words, Zuko felt no hate but only pity when seeing her breakdown. Katara tried to comfort him because, canonically, even though Zuko and Azula are enemies, this was never what he wanted because he still sees her as family. That's why the Last Agni Kai's music is not the epic you'd expect from a battle, but a tragic one.

5 - Aaron Ehasz, the lead writter for the show, probably the person with the most influence after Bryke, has REPEATEDLY said that he always felt Azula should have gotten a redemption arc, Zuko being an Iroh figure to give her advice and be the only one still by her side when all else was seemingly lost to her forever.

Even the comics (most of which I HATE, mainly because Azula's storyline checks nearly every box for "the mentally ill are inherently evil/less human, so it's fine if literally every other person on the planet mistreats them") didn't fully abandon their complex dynamic.

Zuko is not a perfect sibling, and for a long chunk of the story he seemed too focused on his own issues for Azula to ever be a factor in his mind (aside from the moments in which she was a potential/explict threat), but he DOES still feel a sense of obligation towards her, to the point that it made him do something no one else in their family had done before or since - actually look at Azula. Not the prodigious daughter/perfect weapon, or the problem child that is difficult to handle, or the pontentially deadly enemy that was in the way, but Azula.

His 14-year-old sister that got on his nerves a lot, was far from the kindest person alive, and that he had a ton of issues with, but that he could never fully hate or even be indifferent to. Because she's family. Because he remembers a happier time in which the gap between them didn't seem so big. Because if things had been slightly different he could have been her. Because he went from wanting to be her to seeing just how miserable her life ended up being - especially compared to the one he now had - and feeling deeply sorry for her.

Now if you guys excuse me, I'm gonna go cry in the corner. Have some wholesome/bittersweet fanart if you wanna cry too.

[eponastory]

I'm gonna hash out some arguments that don't work here.

Make it make sense.

The colonizer/colonized argument was the first thing that was brought up. If that were the case, then why is Aang willing to accept and be friends with Zuko even though Sozin wiped out the Air Nomads? Why is Sokka friends with Zuko when he experienced the loss of his mother just like Katara? Like... come on, people. Make it make sense.

Then we go into the whole attraction argument... because Zutara shippers apparently don't like that Aang is shorter than Katara.

Height has nothing to do with it (hey, I dated a guy who was shorter than me, we were pretty good together). This argument relies on Katara and Zuko being the most attractive characters in the show... nope. That's not why we ship them. It's literally their personality and disposition that we like. That and Zuko let's Katara be Katara. He doesn't see her as someone who is supposed to be forgiving and at peace. That isn't in her nature either and she doesn't have to make that choice if she doesn't want to. Aang wants her to be forgiving, but that is not his choice to make.

Then, there is the whole childhood trauma argument.

Yes, they both have trauma, but guess what, they both overcome that trauma.

I'll start with Zuko, who not only had a narcissistic sociopath for a father, but had to deal with emotional and physical abuse from said parent. Ozai literally told his own son that he was lucky to be born because he was not the prodigy like Azula. Ozai played favorites (which is something we see Aang do with his kids later on), and that damages a child more than anything. In Book 1, Zuko is trying to please his father and be the heir that Ozai wants him to be. He is frustrated and angry because of this. This is something Zuko overcomes later on in Book 3 when he actually confronts Ozai. It's a really good scene where Zuko addresses the abuse from his father. This is where Zuko starts to heal from that trauma. He let's it go and does the right thing, ultimately learning he was trying to fill a mold his father made for him.

On to Katara's trauma... loss. Loss of a parent. Something that she and Zuko share. However, Zuko does get his mother back in his life (along with another little sister, and I love his relationship with Kiyi). Katara does get closure and is able to accept that killing Yon Rha is not going to bring Kya back. However, she doesn't have to forgive him. It's possible that she believes the man is already suffering for his actions. It's not the best way to deal with it, but for her it is. Katara is very maternal, which is a great aspect of her character. The reason she is like this is because she lost her mother. Her innocence was ripped from her the day Kya died. Her childhood was cut short.

Does this make trauma a facet to a toxic relationship? No. It doesn't. Because they both dealt with their trauma the way they needed to before they could truly become friends. Katara also helped Zuko come to terms with his trauma as well.

So, would Zutara actually work?

Yeah, it would because they have mutual respect for each other. Once they get past the past, they really don't have a problem with communication, boundaries, or expect to hold up an image of each other. Those are the foundation of a good relationship. It's all there. Even if it's 'just friends'.

Kataang, on the other hand... oh boy.

[usernamesuggestionsarefunny]

Possibly unpopular opinion (Or perhaps not idk): I love what they have done with Zuko and Ozai's relationship in the live action Netflix Avatar show.

In the cartoon we never get the ~vibes~ that Zuko has a complicated relationship with his father, only that it is abusive and one-sided in the sense only Zuko craves Ozai's approval, while Ozai straight up hates him, wants him dead or has no problem with him dying (Why doesn't he kill him if he has Azula? We don't know, plot has to happen, he sent Zuko to find the avatar in order to get rid of him, probably, or actually canon idk or remember), clearly prefers Azula to him as successor, etc, etc, etc (+ later the comics literally overkilled this trend "she was born lucky while..." omg stfu). Zuko is basically the perfect character to prove the fire nation is not all evil (Oh look, they hate him too, he is inherently their victim too from the very beginning).

So when Zuko switches sides in the cartoon, what I see as an adult rewatching is someone giving up on luxory, physical safety and... that is pretty much it. Sure it is a big deal to give up on those things to do what is right (Few would) and still awesome that he did the right thing in the end, but if you really think about it, he is not giving up that much, he is not giving up anything truly valuable to him. Respect? Honor? Sure he is said to have received it back after Azula "killed" Aang, but we never truly see it. For all intents and purposes his sister has that and wayyy more of it. His father's love and acceptance? Never had it, so he didn't truly "loose it" when he spoke up for those soldiers, got the scar and was banished, it is not really shown to have suddenly popped into existence when he was said to have killed the avatar. He literally had nothing in the fire nation, literally nothing. This could only make "doing the right thing" a lot easier for him, and for the adult audience (At least for me), his arc is just him realizing what is almost irritatingly obvious for us: That no one in the fire nation truly loves and respects him so might as well switch sides (Basically if we weren't also shown that Zuko is compassionate and does care about the horrible things the fire nation is doing, Ember Island Players would have gotten a bit of truth in it).

Now, in the live action, where do I even start? It has been so good so far when it comes to Ozai and Zuko. That man, if he hated Zuko in a cartoonishly evil way almost from birth, he sure doesn't show it. Don't get me wrong, he is just as abusive (Creepily so in many scenes, made me feel so protective of Zuko and Azula), but he is also shown to "care" about Zuko as in having some hope left that he can mold him into another powerful genocidal mini me. Is Azula winning by far? Ofc, she is still the prodigy, I am sure I am going to see flashbacks of favoritism later on. But Ozai doesn't yet seem to favor her in a way that makes Zuko's craving for his approval (Or even Ozai's hope in him as heir) hopeless. It seems, from his scenes with Azula, that Ozai foments the rivalry and competition between the two siblings not only because he personally thinks Azula is the best (Which he also might in this version), but also as a way of control through fear (Especially for prodigy Azula), and to make them (Especially comparatively weaker Zuko) "better", something this version of Ozai appears to think is possible EVEN when he banishes Zuko. Now, he might have done this "to get rid of him" as in the original, but in the live action he seems super open to and genuinely believe the idea that the exile could make Zuko stronger and better, not to mention worthy of the throne if he succeeds. Ozai treats Zuko like the heir despite favoring Azula is all I am saying. Zuko's actions are therefore almost impossible, yes, but not hopeless or even naive. And if this trend of Ozai's respect and "love" (Super on quotes) being achievable continues, Zuko's eventual turn to the good side will be much more powerful. He will have to give up much more after spending a summer with his abusive parent love bombing him for "killing" the avatar. Zuko's choice will be solely based on his findings about the horrors the fire nation has committed and not wanting to be the cause of more suffering even though he could have it all. Even though it was his fate to be his father's "mini me"-> Something terrifyingly likely and not so quickly discarded by the narrative itself as it was in the animated series.

I think the best part about this subtle change in the father-son dynamic (If it was the intention of the writers, I am aware it could have been unintended) is that the scar tm was a direct result of Zuko's compassion for those soldiers and not just the excuse Ozai used to banish him or "final straw" because he preferred Azula sooo much more, as it is pretty much implied later on in the animated series and comics by focusing so much on how much of a perfect victim Zuko was pretty much from birth. The addition of the 41st surviving because of Zuko was also pretty nice, and so is Zuko's relationship with them, he will need fire nation allies when he gets to the throne and this is a good start, something the animated series never touched upon much.

I am on episode 6 btw so my opinion might change. I will edit this post if that is the case. BUT my thoughts on these first scenes doesn't change, they are good imho

EDIT (And spoilers): I just watched Zhao’s revelation where he tells Zuko that Ozai would never let him return and he just wanted to use him to motivate Azula. It does change things and invalidates most of what I said, but taking out just this one scene, as I said, the Ozai-Zuko dynamic is great in this show, and also, Zhao is obviously not the most reliable source, because he was allied to Azula and obviously wanted to hurt Zuko, as he was losing the fight with him. There is also the fact that Azula wasn't watching Ozai and Zuko when Ozai told his son that he was being banished and that it was in part so he could get stronger etc, that was all for Zuko and had little way of serving as motivation for Azula (Unlike the scenes where Ozai praises Zuko in front of her, those could have totally been him bullshitting his daughter to motivate her to work even harder). So all in all this scene doesn't ruin the overall impression I had of the Ozai-Zuko father-son dynamic in the life action show. In fact, it could be taken to confirm one of my impressions which was that Ozai likes pitying his children against each other to push them harder.

EDIT 2: Ozai's reaction to Zuko's possible death is further proof imo that his “test” was very much real (even if almost impossible) and everything I said earlier still stands. He wouldn't mind that much if he died, it would just prove his “weakness”, and he is very pleased with Azula, but he didn't look happy or even indifferent when he learned the news.

[penguinfrommars]

The fire Hazard siblings deserved better

Someone pointed out that azula cared more for zuko and he did for her and I can't stop thinking about it. His entire life, zuko was constantly over-shadowed and compared to azula so it's only natural for someone to grow jealous. But, more than that azula quite literally made his life hell with playing pranks on him, teasing him and actually burning him. So it's only natural for zuko to grow up fearing and even hating azula, even if he does see her as a sister.

On the other hand, we know that azula's a perfectionist and a control freak. Pretty evident from the whole beach episode and even the spirit temple comic, she doesn't understand love and freindship because no one really showed her any. Sure, she had Mai and Ty Lee who probably treated her like a freind, but even at that point she only knew how to control people. Which is why, I think throughout her life she saw zuko as something she could control and keep by her side. She probably thought that zuko would always choose her. It's pretty evident from the fact that in book 3 she lied to her father, the most rebellion she's shown, for his sake. Infact, she disobeyed direct orders to bring him as a prisoner, but rather found a way to bring him home as her brother. Apart from that she clearly saw zuko as a landmark, as a reassurance. That all she had to do was be Better than him. Better at bending, better at politics etc. Because that way she had her father's attention. (Pretty obvious from the "You can't treat me like Zuko")

Personally, I feel like they deserved so much better, especially azula. I feel like, if zuko had made an effort to show azula that he cared about her, not out of fear but out of love, and if azula had tried to be nicer with zuko instead of belittling him, things might have been different. It's impossible for them to have the same dynamic as Sokka and katara because their situations were as different as day and night. Katara and Sokka had to rely on eachother to survive and to protect the village while Zuko and Azula had to compete for their father's favor. Still, I feel like they could have a much better relationship than actively trying to kill eachother and maybe even work together as slightly-less-maniac-but-still-disfunctional siblings.

Also you can't convince me that Zuko and Azula wouldn't make THE MOST POWERFUL DUO ever

Edit : Lu ten. The answer is lu ten

[comradekatara]

Apologies for the framing of my Azula question. The Henry Kissinger section was no so much a part of the question as it was my interpretation of how Azula would have ended up. She would have helped Zuko end the war, but she would have done everything to ensure that the Fire Nation had as much advantage as possible.

this is about nonbender azula, right? i mean it’s such a fundamental change to the story that it’s really hard to say what would happen. i guess if we subscribe to the idea that lo and li are the nonbending twin sisters of azulon and still have a relatively high position in the court then i guess a nonbending daughter would be accepted but to a far lesser extent than a firebending prodigy daughter lmfao. like she’d be tolerated but she’d probably also be far less valued by ozai (discarded, even) and thus ursa would’ve had a way less difficult job in getting through to her. so yeah it’s hard to say whether she’d still say by ozai’s side, because she’s obviously smart enough to know that it’s a precarious position, but she’s also smart enough to rationalize her own fear through a million different minute flaws in her logic.

like i don’t really know whether ursa’s death would make her more or less loyal to ozai, because obviously an imperative piece of her logic is that ozai’s victims deserved it due to being weak, and since she’s ozai’s favorite, then she’s doing just fine. but if she’s not ozai’s favorite, she’d either desperately strive to be his favorite, or she’d simply realize that she’s next and try to escape before he could get his hands on her. assuming she stays by ozai’s side, she would know mai and ty lee, and she’d have learned a whole bunch of nonbending forms that still make her an extremely formidable threat. so it would go down similar as to canon, but with slightly different fighting mechanics. assuming she just straight up runs away, however (and that also depends on whether she not she takes zuko), i dont think she’d give a shit about the fire nation while she’s in hiding, she’d just be trying to save her own skin.

but yeah, assuming zuko becomes firelord, she’d definitely try to return and position herself as his advisor. because this is true of any variation of azula who has a remotely good relationship with zuko. she’s like “you’re inept you need me” lmfao. and now im picturing azula and sokka as competing royal advisors lol. sokka’s like “she’s literally a nepotism hire” and azula’s like “well you’re just a gay nepotism hire.” obv zuko would side with sokka every time tho so i don’t think azula would be able to secure an advantage for the fire nation unless it was like. thru clandestine subterfuge that no one even knew about. but i don’t see that happening. also i think any significant amount of time in aang’s presence would radicalize azula at least somewhat. his sheer existence is an effusive enlightening agent. sorry what was the question again

[sokkastyles]

Hi,

Hope you are doing well. Thank you for the response on EIP.

I was reading some of the asks that you answered regarding Azula. It actually made me laugh a bit. Azula was kinder to Zuko? If so, then why does Zuko feel so uneasy around her?

As a matter of fact, another thought struck me. We can tell that Azula and Zuko do not have a good relationship, even before the back stories were fleshed out. When Azula is introduced, both Zuko and Iroh react with suspicion. There must be a reason for their reactions. We can infer that their relations with Azula are not good. And Azula also says that Ozai is recalling Zuko from his exile, but Zuko is still suspicious. Its one thing to feel that Ozai probably changed his mind, but Zuko feels uncertain which definitely means that he has doubts on Azula, and Ozai as as well. Also, the flashbacks to Zuko and Ozai's Agni Kai have Azula smiling, which tells us that she enjoyed her brother's humiliation, and this is before it was revealed she was Zuko's sister. I would like your thoughts on this.

Yeah, a lot of people are willfully obtuse about Zuko and Iroh being rightfully mistrustful of Azula in "The Avatar State." They will complain that they're immediately suspicious of her, but then handily ignore that Azula is lying her face off and has malicious intent from the start. The audience knows it, and Zuko and Iroh know it based on their previous experience with Azula.

I can see why it might be hard for people to understand that if they ignore the context, though. And part of the context is that Azula smiled when Zuko was burned. Which is also why her stans are invested in denying that that means anything or that it even happened. It's really handy to invent your own narrative when you ignore literally all of the text evidence, isn't it?

[starmans-spacelibrary]

An ATLA book 3: Fire, episode one scene analysis !!

I cant lie the scene where Ozai welcomes Zuko home makes me sob just a teeny tiny bit because you can literally see in his face that returning doesn’t feel like it should, and as someone with a complicated relationship with their parents i feel that

(Zuko matters so much to me like i cant put it into words he is one of the most special characters in existence)

Also something i noticed straight away during my rewatch is that Ozai can never mention any kind of accomplishment of Zuko’s without bringing Azula into it,, like even when Zuko is home for the first time in three years he cannot say he is proud of him without adding “because you and your sister conquered ba sing se” and he also bases all of his praise of zuko around harming others and not a single bit of it commends his personal growth or literally anything observant at all because if he actually looked at Zuko for five seconds he would see something so far from what he preaches and i genuinely think Ozai does not possess the emotional maturity to see what is right in front of him.

Additionally, the symbolism in these scenes actually astounds me like in this short sequence theres so much to pick up on!?!?

Something small but very important is the symbolism behind this scene of Zuko kneeling before his father while Ozai officially welcomes him home.

Its such a simple scene but we can link it to so much, but mainly the scene of him kneeling before his father during the agni kai.

This also links to the fact that he still defers to his father despite everything and through that we can see that while he is so emotionally mature he isnt ready yet to fully sever ties with his father, and by extension his guilt and feelings of inadequacy because for as long as he can remember that was his whole identity and when he was faced with the big choice by Iroh i think he most definitely knew what was right, however the permanence and finality of it scared him into following Azula and his father because thats what hes always known, its FAMILIAR.

Another piece of symbolism i adored in this episode was the framing of this shot where the fire nation banner looms over Zuko, and how it represents his father and the expectations placed on him, and how he feels they are too big and overbearing.

I also noticed that when he steps forward the banner/ entrance to his fathers throne room casts a shadow on his face, which i think could be interpreted as representing how Ozai and Azula cloud his morals because he is so desperate for their approval and love.

This whole shadow archetype is also seen in how Ozai is always shown as being obscured by shadows right up until this episode and i think that was so incredibly well done.

ANYWAYS!!! If you made it this far you’re an absolute trooper and i adore you <3 thanks 4 listening to my daily rant (i know i have like 10 followers MAX but idc i love pretending i have loyal readers)

[unorthodoxx-page]

So what made you decide where to put each turtle?

So, in the story the placement is meant to be ‘random’, but here are some of my character relationship reasons.  LONG ANSWER BELOW!

Leo 

His placement was one of the easiest to figure out.  I feel like his character is loose enough to fit in with the Gaang on a peer level, but also experienced enough to act as a more adult figure in their group.  Katara and Aang definitely look at Sokka as an older figure, but not an adult.  Leo sort of fills that missing Adult roll even if they don’t realize it.  

Raph

Raph and Toph was also easy.  Raph just gives off the vibe of Earth.  Stocky.  Strong.  Settled.  He doesn’t question his decisions as much after the invasion.  He’s also the perfect older figure for Toph.  Everyone older in Toph’s life is overprotective and controlling.  Raph gives Toph the space to be a kid (a dangerous kid) without smothering her.  I also felt like they would play off each other well.  Leo would’ve been a terrible influence on her if he landed there (I can already here “We’re not going to take it!” music playing as they take over the manor lmao).  As it stands, Leo’s just (slightly) peeved that Raph’s acting so brotherly with her lol

 (”I already have a sister,” Leo mumbles, “I don’t need another one.  Especially not a know-it-all younger one.”  “That’s you,” Raph sighs, “You literally just described yourself.” 😂🤣 )

Mikey & Donnie.....and Azula and Zuko lol

So Mikey and Donnie weren’t that difficult either.  I believe Donnie and Azula was the first ‘pairing’ I decided in my drafts.  Leo doesn’t have the compassion (or maybe patience is a better word) to deal with either Zuko or Azula.  Raph might’ve gotten through to Zuko, but Zuko doesn’t need another supportive older person in his life (if that makes sense).  

As for Azula, she wouldn’t respect Raph, because he can be easily manipulated through his emotions and gentle nature.  I also think she would find an antagonist in Leo.  Like, I just picture them fighting like cats and dogs.  She would see his laidback demeanor as a cover to hide his intellect.  She could never fully allow herself to trust or open up to him.  Sort of the same for Leo.  Azula’s nature would rub him the wrong way.  

I also see Leo getting frustrated with Zuko’s stubbornness about his Nations participation in this war.  He might feel some sympathy for both the siblings, but it wouldn’t be enough for him to stay.

Mikey though, has a big enough heart to try with Zuko.  He doesn’t push the boy, but he’s also not needlessly vague (sorry Iroh) like Iroh is.  He’ll push when he can, but the most important thing for me was the support.  He gives it so easily to Zuko and I think it’s something Zuko needs outside of family.  Mikey’s character also manages to find the fun in any situation, which is something Zuko is lacking as well (even though he fights it).

Azula, however, needs someone who can potentially see her as a monster, and still love her.  I personally feel like a lot of people want to change who she is, and I don’t think that’s what she needs.  She already believes herself to be a monster, so you’re only confirming that for her if she needs to change to be accepted.  Donnie however, takes people as they are.  He wouldn’t see a need to change her.  He would just try to understand her and get what he needs from the Fire Nation, which is something Azula can respect.  

But this simple acceptance of her nature allows her to open up in small ways.  Sharing a book she hates, constant mentions of Zuko, allowing herself to be taught chess, requesting information on his behalf, etc.  

I mean, he argues with her.  No one in the show does it willingly.  It’s why she’s so bad at it lol.  It makes for fun character interactions though.  

It’s just, out of all the brothers I thought would look at Azula and simply say “ok” was Donnie.  

Hoped that answered some questions!

[cienie-isengardu]

Fire Lord Zuko and Iroh

One thing that will never sit well with me in regard to the post-war Avatar: The Last Airbender world, especially as presented in the comics series, is the fact that Iroh gets so easily out of the mess of reforming Fire Nation and have relative happy ending, while 17 years old Fire Lord Zuko is left to deal with all the political shitty nightmare on his own. 

And look, I get the storytelling goal of the new generation stepping in and “repairing” the world the previous generation fucked up and all. But Zuko is not just forced to undo damage done by his father’s six years of regime or Sozin and Azulon, but by Iroh as well, because Iroh was part of the Fire Nation set to conquer other people. It was Iroh that besiege a Ba Sing Sai for 600 days - it was him who joked about burning the city to ashes in his letter to beloved family - and who didn’t finish the task only because his son died, with little regard to how many of Fire Nation soldiers or Earth Kingdom soldiers and civilians was killed through the almost two years because he had once a vision he will take the Ba Sing Sai. 

Zuko’s formal education ended at the age of 13,  when his father burned his face and banished to chase Avatar that no one saw for hundred years already. Sure, the animation series showed that Iroh was teaching his nephew both firebending and what makes one a good leader but what Zuko experienced and learned during his banishment is not exactly the equivalent of political knowledge he will need as Fire Lord who must find a way to rehabilitate Fire Nation in the eyes of the world but also figure out how to reform an imperialistic and military country into peaceful society with stable economy. A country that saw him as disgrace and traitor not so long ago, mind you.

And as much I see a merit in Iroh’s decision to pass the throne to Zuko - the Avatar’s friend and firebending master, him choosing tea shop over Zuko is just so fucking wrong to me. Iroh literally admitted Zuko was like a son to him in the first season and spent the next one trying to keep his nephew safe from their horrible family and other dangers and I’m supposed to believe when Zuko officially became Fire Lord with not only political nightmare to solve peacefully but also his abusive father to keep an eye on* and younger sister with mental breakdown, Iroh just… washed his hands from those problems so he could enjoy tea and Pai Sho game in peace? In Ba Sing Sai of all possible places with no consequence? Like, seriously?  

Legend of Korra strongly implies Zuko did a good job and had a healthy relationship with his family, as both Fire Lord Izumi and General Iroh II seem to be fine people on their own. Which is great and nice! But does Zuko really need to deal with problems created by his predecessors all by himself where there is alive Iroh, the actually fully trained, educated Crown Prince to help him get a grip of the political matters at least in the first few years of Zuko’s rule? I really want to know what Iroh was thinking? Give a throne to Zuko and hope the boy will survive all the assassination attempts and magically figure out how to deal with the consequences of war that lasted for 100 years?

I like Iroh but I’m not blind to his flaws and him being part of White Lotus should not be a free pass from the problems he helped create in the first place.

*Aang finding a way to stop Ozai without killing him is great for him and I’m happy he managed to do so while staying true to his own culture but he is not the one that is left to deal with Ozai for upcoming years. Taking Ozai’s bending doesn’t magically erase his abuse toward Zuko and Azula and the man still has political supporters that made Zuko’s life much harder and more dangerous than the kid deserves.

[maikowasalwaysbad]

I think what bothered me about Maiko was how half assed it actually was, and how it had wayyy too little scenes to be considered good or well written AT ALL. User @sokkastyles made a lot of good points concerning how badly written Maiko was, and how it did Mai’s character dirty. But what makes it so funny to me is how much lack of scenes there are for it to be good- let me explain:

We never get Mai’s reaction to Zuko’s banishment. None at all. It’s almost like the writers didn’t even plan this and only mashed them together due to them being single. We see her smirk at the thought of seeing him yes, but there’s no concern over Zuko literally being thrown in prison or possibly killed. I’m not saying Mai’s a bad person but…wouldn’t you worry about your partner? Or couldn’t the writers show her reaction to Zuko literally being burned and humiliated?

Where was the build up besides ONE literal flashback that the majority of people I know forgot about??? Literally, that kiss in episode 1 of Book 3 was out of NOWHERE- it felt like the writers needed to give him a love interest so they had Mai kiss him out of desperation. 😭 But even then with that flashback it was nowhere near convincing that Zuko loved her since childhood or something. And even for Mai it was honestly….eh. It’s a cute childhood crush thing where she may find hm attractive, yes. However how is this supposed to convince me it’s long term like they want me to believe? Plus, we literally see Zuko dislike it when Azula and Ty Lee tease them about being together. There’s no implications of him deep down liking Mai or anything in that flashback. Just him getting angry at it in fact.

Where tf were the scenes of Zuko worrying for Mai after the Boiling Rock? This one I can maybe understand due to maybe not enough runtime but…Wouldn’t you worry for someone you love if they’re going to be imprisoned and possibly punished heavily by your crazy sister??? He knows what Azula is capable of along with the Boiling Rock prison in general. So why didn’t we get any scenes of him worrying for her? If the writers wanted to really convince me on their relationship they could’ve at least give me a scene of him either freeing her or worrying for her afterwards LMAO. “Erm maybe offscreen” yeah, keyword: MAYBE.

Mai never confronted the Fire Nation was wrong. Literally, when did she confront the Fire Nation was wrong? Y’all expect me to believe she’s right for him when she didn’t even see that the Fire Nation was wrong? That’s like if a feminist were to date a man who didn’t support women’s rights- it’s just….blegh. And you wouldn’t support that relationship. Literally, where did she confront Ozai was wrong? She only saved Zuko because she “loved” him. But how are they supposed to be compatible due to those opposing ideals? Seems boring and really lazy ass writing that doesn’t confront those points lmao. “She probably realized it in the room when Zuko told her” he only said “that’s not how I see it” when she told him he was betraying his country. We don’t see a scene where Mai suddenly realizes the Fire Nation is bad. “Maybe offscreen” yeah, MAYBE. And that sort of proves my point Maiko is badly written and doesn’t have enough scenes to support it or make it good.

I can go more into depth on how multiple parts of the writing were flawed whether it be the characters or just the ship in general. However I won’t make this too long and will stop here. Overall, I feel Maiko could’ve had WAY more scenes to sell it to me or be better written. It’s not just the toxic moments that annoy me, but also the lack of scenes and writing. While I do agree it had potential, elements such as bad writing, too little time, etc made it badly written and half assed to me. And I hope Maiko shippers can respect my opinions and thoughts.

[akiizayoi4869]

I'm interested to hear your opinion on why you think Zuko's redemption arc isn't perfect. To be honest, I think so too, but my opinion is that the whole season 3 is just very poorly and lazily written, and Aang, Iroh, Zuko and to some extent Katara are OOC there. What do you think about it?

A part of my reasoning is also the fact that Book 3 was rushed to hell and back. Aside from that, it's also because of the fact that the narrative never really challenged Zuko on a lot of his beliefs and make him see things differently. Like for example, we never see him think on Fire Nation ideology and what it means to him, why it was wrong and how it was doing more harm than good. We never see him question his xenophobia against people from the other nations. It just ceases to exist once he joined the Gaang. As if to say that him joining the good guys just magically erased all of this.

Another issue with it for me was his relationship with Azula, and how once he broke free from Ozai, he never stopped to consider that the problem between them wasn't Azula being better than him and having Ozai's "love", it was Ozai himself and the impossible standards he set for the both of them. For all the writers tried to say that Zuko was a good person once his redemption arc started, he sure shows none of that for his sister. Kinda hard to portray him as a good older brother when he seems to not give a damn about her at all.

Finally, his relationship with Iroh, and how that was made as the main reason behind Zuko's change of heart. Instead of, you know, literally everything else that was wrong with the Fire Nation and its regime. Zuko's arc started with blindly following a parent and doing whatever they told him to do, never questioning whether or not it was right or wrong. His arc ends with blindly following a parental figure, never questioning a single thing about them, and never realizing that maybe he wasn't so perfect after all. It was such a huge disservice to his character imo to end his arc that way.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Your thoughts on this? Anti maikos seem so convinced lol

"He vallues his sense of honor/morals/what's right over his relationship with Mai" HOW IS THAT BAD????????? Uncle Iroh gave Zuko the cold shoulder after the Ba Sing Se fiasco, does that mean he does not love Zuko? To properly show you love someone you can't have a mind and voice of your own?

This person is either 13-years-old or the kind that doesn't understand not every romance in fiction needs to be "I'll give up on literally EVERYTHING ELSE just for you" - hell, I like that kind of romance a lot, but not all love stories need to be that.

That's part of what makes Maiko feel more realistic as a romance to me. Zuko was banished and had to see a different side of the world, Mai wasn't. Zuko is a person that naturally NEEDS to speak, or shout, his mind, while Mai was taught to basically blend into the background.

Of course they're gonna have disagreements. Of course they won't always be on the same page. Of course their idea of what their relationship and life, both as couple and individuals, should be like.

That doesn't mean they can't find a middle ground, or realize the other was right, or go "I have no fucking clue why this means so much to you, but I love you and trust your judgement."

Zuko and Mai had a ton of issues, but they worked through them - that's a far more solid foundation for a relationship, both IRL and in fiction, than one that is based purely on infactuation and never has to be tested.

As for the "he broke up with her over-text" come on, he had good reason. Mai had never given any indication that she wanted to change sides and was friends with Azula. If Zuko broke up with her in person she could have done something to try and stop him. He couldn't aford that - there's a reason he only confronted Ozai at the last second, with the fucker unable to firebend.

And for him "never sparing a thought for her" - we see the flashbacks of Zuko alone that clearly foreshadow their romance. It was HIS memories. He had not seen her in at least 3 whole years yet the time his sister pulled a prank on them both to embarass Mai for having a crush on him still stuck. He also brought her up when talking to Sokka, when he didn't know he was about to see her again.

Zuko didn't bring up Aang basically offering to be his friends in book 1 for the longest time, yet he still clearly remembered it. He did not bring up Azula until the season 1 finale, but he clearly remembered he had a sister. He never explicitly talked about his mother to ANYONE until the day of the eclipse, and we only see her in two episodes, and once again none of it was in book 1, but he still clearly loved her.

The characters don't need to bring up everything that is important to them in every single episode to show that they care because good stories tend to assume the audience doesn't have amnesia.

[hxhhasmysoul]

Sorry if I'm late for the ship ask game. Can I ask for these ships :

- Killua/Gon (my fav non canon ship from any shounen until now)

- Zuko/Sokka (my fav ship from ATLA, and they're also my top 5 fav characters from that series)

- Gojo/ Getou (sorry, I know you dislike those two, but I want to know your opinion on this ship. Also, they're my main reason to enter JJK fandom)

Thx if you want to answer

KilluGon

Absolutely ship it!

What made you ship it?

Canon, they're prone to these very romantic moments.

What are your favourite things about the ship?

How devoted they are to one another. They meet by accident and get entangled with each other so quickly. Killua follows Gon around during the exam, then Gon goes to save him and since then it becomes a duh for them that they do everything together. And then the trauma they both endure puts a strain on their bond and we see in real time how their relationship partially sours because they are too young and they don't know how to deal with the trauma and the stress. They make each other better and worse, and it just feels so real. It's just amazing.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

Idk how unpopular it really is but Gon isn't abnormally selfish, and he's not some villain in their relationship. They both contribute to it hurting them both. People getting hurt in relationships and still fighting for them and working on them is just so normal. I think also that people who dislike Gon or have no interest in him should no be shipping this. And Killua isn't a soft uwu boi. He's got a mean streak, is petty and prone to addiction, the soft boi outfits are a lie.

Zuko/Sokka

I don't ship it.

Why don’t you ship it?

In a previous ask reply I talked about how much I like MaiKo. And that's just my default ship for Zuko. The thing with Sokka is that his heterosexuality forces him to reconsider his misogyny, it's not ideal that this is what makes him start respecting women but honestly, who cares as long as he doesn't act like sad loser towards women in the end. And I'm saying this because having a sister who was his life line and his keeper for years after they lost their mother and were left behind by their father, did nothing to make him not a dick to women. And I think that if Sokka'd been gay, he'd've never changed. He'd've been one of those gays who look down at women. What if he lead Zuko there too? Like Azula makes Zuko's life quite awful, so some bigoted takes about women could've made him a misogynist and feel justified for it too.

What would have made you like it?

If they had more chemistry in canon. I just can't imagine an exciting dynamic between them to engage in shipping it? Nothing about this ship makes me think they could make each other better and that's a must for me to ship anything, really.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

I'm sorry but not really. I have barely seen this ship around because I don't go to the ATLA fandom, I don't think even fanart for it has ever crossed my dash. I mean it's marginally better than Zuko/Katara, because that one is just toxic heterosexuality the ship.

Gojo/ Getou

omg, not really.

Why don’t you ship it?

Like with HisoIllu, I accept that this is a logical ship and it's likely canon. But unlike HisoIllu, I actually actively can't stand it.

Generally, considering how toxic Gojou's personality is, I consider all his het ships misogyny and all his queer ship, queerphobia, even such absolutely toxic shit like SukuGo, even GoKen, even Gojou/Touji. I don't even like Touji but not even he deserves that. Apart from SatoSugu. Getou was a truly disgusting fascist adult and a condescending fuck as a teen, I think they can have each other.

Why I actively despise it, is because of the fandom. The fans of these two characters separately and those of this ship are some of the loudest and most obnoxious in this fandom. They will literally take panels, scenes or chapters that are about other characters and unleash some truly unhinged word vomit to make it seem like there's some connection to Gojou, Getou or their ship. Usually it's either complete misrepresentation of what is in the manga or pure untagged fanfiction. But the tags of other characters get regularly flooded by this kind of shit. They act as if they couldn't stand there being parts of the JJK fandom where their favs are not worshiped, where their ship is not the most important thing.

What would have made you like it?

Nothing. If it weren't for the fans, I would've been neutral about it. I wouldn't have cared about it because a thought about any dynamic between these two assholes leaves me completely cold. But I wouldn't've cringed when I saw it in the tags to the fics in my tags. I wouldn't've cringed writing the single Gojou involving scene I've ever written.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

No, I'm still sad that the most awful fans of these two and their ship haven't rage quit the fandom when Sukuna finally reduced Gojou to tolerable portions. Honestly it seems to be getting worse. Despite how liberally I block, it still often feels, even on some leaks days, that there's more about this ship in the JJK tags than of the actually relevant stuff.

[quinn-fucks-shit-up]

watching the new atla and I have a couple of things to say

(for reference I am 4 mins into episode 6 and writing this while my sister has a snack break)

let's start with the positives:

zuko and iroh are spot on, iroh takes until the second ep for him to (as my sister said) "feel his oats" but otherwise their dynamic is spot on with some excellent acting all things considered

their scenes also have the most quality added to the show, with their flashbacks being genuinely emotional and believable, 10/10

jet + the freedom fighters, though in the wrong place, are also very well portrayed, helping katara and endangering innocents when needed.

ozai has also had a lot added to him, as we get to actually see his manipulation tactics at work with Azula, it makes him more effective and intimidating

koh the face stealer is genuinely scary

a round of applause for the costume designers and music writers, they really knocked it out of the park

cabbages

unfortunately, the negatives will be a longer list:

the acting from most of the characters is piss poor, I mean really shoddy, as in I have seen sokkas facial expression change once and his humour has fallen flat every. single. time.

the changes they have made to the plot have been unnecessary, confusing, and have actually muddied the timeline to the point that they have conveyed less information than the cartoon with the same amount of time

don't even get me started on how they slaughtered bumi

it lacked the scenes necessary to show aangs immaturity, (riding elephant koi, etc.) so his character development is kinda missing

katara also is so passive as to be unrecognisable from the source material, her anger is just not there, and her bossiness is non-existent, it's like they forgot to give her flaws and in doing so rendered her more 2 dimensional than when she was literally a drawing

I've already complained about sokka, but I need to reiterate, he is Not Funny, the sarcasm comes across as mean spirited but without that "pointless mysoginy" the writers were so keen to get rid of he doesn't have any chance to grow out of it. also they made his and Suki's relationship kinda weird

it seems like the dynamics of katara and sokka have switched?? like instead of her acting like their mum, he acts like their dad? odd.

the character designs are weird, it's a complete toss up how accurate they'll be, minor characters like the mechanist and June will be almost scarily accurate, but the same grace is not provided to integral characters like Zuko, Azula, Mai and Zhao, strange.

oh wow Zhao. wtf did they do to Zhao?? they took The most intimidating villain and made him utterly forgettable that's what. they made him downright respectful. geez.

I'll reblog with more info when I finish.