Am I going crazy when I say El has never seen Will and Mike be... WillandMike?
In s1 El and Will missed each other entirely. When he came back, El got trapped in the upside down instead and s2 was the same thing - Will and Mike worked together as duo for most of the season and El was off doing her own thing.
In s3 we learn that El barely spends time with the rest of the party and she only connected with max after the whole ordeal about Mike's nana (which happened months after the ending of season 2), so El and Mike spent all of their days together completely alone at her cabin or actively ignoring and ditching the party during group hangouts
We don't actually know what happened during the time skip from the battle of starcourt to the byers move, but I don't think it's a stretch to say Mike and Will's friendship was still off (especially because of their infamous fight and "it's not my fault you don't like girls")
In s4 we know El and Will finally got to properly know each other - they're family now, not only acquaintances with a connection to the supernatural - but when Mike arrived in Lenora... well, the airport and rink o'mania scenes speak for themselves. They were being weird and El was obviously too preoccupied with her own issues to actually do or say something about it
But El's not stupid... so do we think if she had seen how Mike and Will act around each other, she would've known?
She's really perceptive and her upbringing being so disconnected from society also means she doesn't see the world through straight and heteronormative lenses...
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astarion, the man who was dying and offered eternal life, but had no idea that it meant becoming a slave to a sadistic master.
astarion, the man who had his freedom and bodily autonomy ripped away from him.
astarion, the man who was forced to befriend, seduce and sleep with people to lure them back to his master, resulting in severe sexual trauma and the struggle to form any sort of intimate relationship.
astarion, the man who was horribly punished whenever he refused his master’s orders (one punishment being sealed away in a dusty tomb, starving, for an entire year. he scratched his hands raw trying to carve his way out).
astarion, the man who was forced to eat rats.
astarion, the man who hasn’t even been able to see his own face since he turned.
astarion, the man who had his body mutilated as cazador carved scars onto his back, which he later found out was to bind him to a ritual.
astarion, the man who is so severely traumatised that he admitted he doesn’t know how to say “no” or ask for help (and he feels guilty when he does).
astarion, the man who waited two centuries to be helped and freed from torture, but no one came.
astarion, the man who was always treated like a monster when all he wanted was to be treated like a person.
astarion, the man who came up to you in the middle of the night just to thank you for defending him and allowing him to make his own decisions.
astarion, the man who said that no one ever looked out for him or showed him kindness, and that you’re the only one. “other people don’t have a heart like you. you’re you. no one is like that.”
astarion, the man who broke the cycle of power and terror that started centuries ago thanks to the love, care and compassion that you showed him when no one else did.
astarion, the man who confessed that he loves you and feels safe with you; something he has never felt with anyone before.
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I've been listening to the Thunder Saga, and I wonder if Zeus is also asking a question with a right and wrong answer in Thunder Bringer like I think Poseidon did in Ruthlessness. (I have a post for that, but I think Odysseus wasn't supposed to apologize, but to instead acknowledge that he should have killed Polyphemus).
Poseidon had to teach him to be ruthless.
Zeus needs to teach him to stop being so prideful.
Like, yes - Eurylochus did stage the mutiny and killed the cow. But! That was because Odysseus decided not to tell any of his men that they would need to accept 6 deaths to get home and allow them to make the choice themselves - because Odysseus couldn't handle the idea that they might refuse going past Scylla and keep him from going home.
This is even present in the song Scylla. Eurylochus is moved to confess that it was him who opened the bag of winds, but Odysseus keeps his own secrets and guilt to himself. I think none of the men even knew they were going past Scylla at all until it happened, since all Eurylochus says is "something approaches," implying he doesn't know what that something even IS.
Scylla even compares Odysseus to themselves, with his full transformation from man to monster now completed.
You hide a reason for shame
You know that we are the same
Leaving them feeling betrayed
Breaking the bonds that you've made
There is no price we won't pay
We both know what it takes to survive
But if you notice, once they kill the cow, they start following Odysseus again. Hell, Eurylochus calls him captain! They follow his orders to escape! This shows that their real desire wasn't to overthrow Odysseus, but rather their anger and betrayal at not even having the option to choose to fight over sacrifice.
And honestly, this happened because Odysseus has demonstrated time and again that he will not discuss anything with his men and instead makes decisions without their input (too much pride to ever consider anyone's opinion other than his own).
In Storm, he tries to force the fleets to keep going despite Eurylochus saying that continuing would sink them all. In the same song, Odysseus also decides to go to the wind god without any discussion beforehand, and completely ignores Eurylochus's advice in Luck Runs Out about the inherent danger of going to the gods for help. In this same song, Odysseus also completely ignores the deaths of his men by Polyphemus, and instead brags about none of them dying in the war. (Once again, the pride Zeus mentions, and that Eurylochus criticizes in both Luck Runs Out and Puppeteer).
This is why Eurylochus opens the bag of winds, because Odysseus has proven he can't be trusted to tell him anything that could be important or put their lives in danger. Despite Eurylochus being his second in command, he's never treated as such. Odysseus has never once discussed something with him, taken his concerns into account, made a decision with him together, or even taken his advice. (Even cutting him off as far back as Full Speed Ahead without even considering his opinion).
Odysseus continues to ignore what Eurylochus tries to talk to him about in Puppeteer, and instead unintentionally gets all his men trapped by Circe. He then goes against Eurylochus again in the same song to confront her despite neither of them knowing if she can be defeated. All of this comes to a head when Odysseus does the same thing again in Scylla, except his decision was to intentionally let their men die for his own desires - and Eurylochus had no idea until it had already happened.
And that's why Eurylochus mutinies. He does it because he cares about his men, seemingly more than Odysseus has demonstrated he ever has.
(I'm not saying that Eurylochus has been right this whole time, and honestly I doubt Eurylochus would say the same - but Odysseus won't even listen to what he has to say, is the problem. He has too much pride).
And then Zeus arrives and proves Eurylochus right.
Zeus gives Odysseus a choice - him or his men. Forcing him to come to terms with the very same decision he made during Scylla and expose him for only caring for himself and not the men under his command.
Zeus is criticizing Odysseus and claiming that he's too full of pride to sacrifice himself to save his men. His men of which he is their captain. Of which he is their king. Zeus points this out to him explicitly, leading me to believe that he wasn't supposed to choose himself here.
I think that by taking back command after they killed the cow, Odysseus had taken responsibility for his men's actions. Except, when confronted with those same actions, he refuses to. Much like how a boss gets in trouble when their subordinates do something wrong, a captain should do the same for his crew.
Except. Odysseus doesn't. He fails the test.
And now he must have his pride taken from him again and again until he learns the lesson Zeus was teaching him. Just like he did with learning ruthlessness from Poseidon.
I think the next saga will involve him being confronted with this decision he makes here, and how it was the wrong one, and then the saga after that (perhaps with the suitors? I'm unsure how many more are planned) is when Odysseus will reprise Thunder Bringer and finally be able to return home.
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