#and I hope it’s just a shigaraki death not a tenko death

[touyahoedoroki]

if shig really is dead then this truly is so disappointing like I can’t believe hori would kill him off like this

[buttercupshands]

MHA didn't create some miracle way of helping others. It was never promised to be this way. And when it came to villains...

Spoilers for manga all the way to chapter 423.

The only way to get anything in life in MHA was to be born "normal" like everyone else and that way of thinking never left Izuku with Toga getting the same treatment she did before from everyone from her family to her "normal" classmates. It was Ochako who helped Toga even if just a little by lifting the weight of all the feelings that Toga had.

She couldn't save Toga the way one could save a civilian by saving them from harm. If it worked that way Dabi would've saved Toga even before Ochako could apologize for failing to notice Toga. She was so lazer focused on saving everyone else, that she was just another villain to stop, not a human.

Even if by the end of it Ochako helped Toga to deal with her grief, acceptance as it was wasn't something possible when a quirk makes you want to drink someone's blood from jealousy.

We got a bittersweet ending with Toga, in which she probably died from blood loss just like her double did in MVA. If it wasn't for Twice she would've died back then.

Giving away her blood for Ochako wasn't a redemption or a way to save Toga in the end, more as it was her being true to herself until the very end.

Just like Twice chose to stay with the League even if Hawks offered him a way to survive that battle. He refused and died protecting his friends who accepted him instead of choosing to betray them and accept Hawks' offer.

After Twice's death... It was a matter of time that more 'active' LoV members would join him as well. As sad as it is, we now can return to Izuku.

Who, after his time OFA-AFO quirk space, now wanted to help a "crying boy" he saw in Tenko just as before with Katsuki in chapter 1. He didn't forgive Tomura and didn't excuse the way he chose to solve his problems.

It didn't mean that Tomura would survive in their battle, even if Izuku didn't see killing others as a way to solve problems. He didn't understand Tomura, but he still wanted to try, and try he did.

The rest of this post was nothing more than a contextual prologue to understand that it's not the first time a hero failed to save a villain and in Twice's case we know that he died and his death was the reason Toga started thinking about her own possible death and Dabi finally revealed himself as Toya.

The goal of saving a "crying boy" never was an end-goal for Izuku in the Final arc, since helping Tomura deal with his feelings just left him hollow with a goal that clashed with Izuku's. As being a hero for villains meant destroying the world for them to help them live freely.

But that was before AFO resurfaced.

Sadly after that Tomura who was talking about making his own choices for a while now stopped doing that. Even if he still had a goal of helping villains and only villains, Tomura was almost gone. And his goals were now unreachable.

Izuku helped Nana who in turn kept Tomura from fading away entirely. In MHA there were countless situations where Izuku's help affected people by helping a different person to keep hope, All-Might being the first one and Nana being the last one at the moment.

Hollow after Izuku helped him to get rid of his hatred Tomura could do the only thing he did - accept the situation as it was.

Accepting AFO as his Sensei, accepting Stain's ideals and Overhaul's deal was the way he solved his problems. Just like Izuku had a problem of understanding something outside of his norm, Tomura was accepting too many things, which lead to his downfall after accepting AFO's quirk.

Just like Twice could've given up everything that he had for his friends so did Tomura.

With Izuku helping as much as he could let Tomura to finally rest as he wasn't really living ever since waking up in the hospital. With his body now affected by AFO's wishes instead of his own until the end.

In a way Izuku didn't succeed in his wish for Tomura to stop ever since PLF war arc. As he "kept fighting to destroy" no matter how hard Izuku tried to stop him.

The only thing he succeeded in was changing Tomura's mind about himself, instead of viewing himself as a monster he accepted that he was a human just like Izuku said. A "crying boy" who couldn't really destroy Izuku's hands in the end.

For a group of Villains who weren't supposed to get profiles of their own at the start of the series, League is slowly fading as the most memorable group that there was in MHA, getting backstories, their own Villain themed arc all the while being as human as anyone else.

As sad as their story is they were not "unlucky", they didn't need a happy false ending where they would need to change to be normal - they chose to live this way and they lived it to it's fullest.

[mangosmoothies]

it’s been hit after hit for Tomura stans!

most of this final battle, he’s not even himself. he’s fused with an abuser, he’s fighting alone, and he has no idea where his comrades are. THEN the absolute worst of his backstory is revealed, AND THEN he gets no time to react to this bombshell before getting obliterated on his BIRTHDAY!

THEN his body gets taken over for the 100th TIME!!! and his final moments are spent in a vestige world, where he doesn’t confront his groomer, doesn’t get to speak to his grandma, manages one punch to AFO, and then he dies.

[greenhappyseed]

do you think Midoriya agrees that he murdered Shigaraki, or that he just hadn’t come to argue with Spinner?

THIS IS SUCH A GOOD QUESTION! @granny-griffin I love the way you think! I’m going to answer in 2 parts: First, a close look at the factors that led to Tomura’s death, because a LOT happened in very few chapters; and second, Izuku’s conversation with Spinner in the context of the final battle, because there are continuing themes that are very consistent with how Izuku approaches Spinner. And finally, a lil Izuku appreciation because he does something very cool in 427.

I. How, exactly, did Tomura decay?

When Izuku held hands with Tenko inside their memories, Izuku cracked the hatred surrounding Tenko and let out Tenko’s core — the person who wanted to be a friend and hero to the LOV. When that happens, the “finger armor” on Tomura’s real body crumble too.

At that exact moment, AFO seizes his opening and re-emerges. AFO says that “Tenko’s spiritual defeat” damaged “his” body, which implicitly blames Izuku for the physical damage. But that’s just AFO’s narration, and AFO is a manipulative liar (even to himself and to MHA readers). We don’t know that Tomura’s body would have decayed if AFO hadn’t re-emerged. For all we know, once Izuku cracked the hatred, Tenko could have gone on to live a normal human life. But of course, AFO would never tolerate a normal human life in the “vessel” he spent years cultivating.

Without Tomura’s rage and hatred, and with AFO in control, AFO quickly “uses up” any remaining power in Tomura’s body. At first, hyper-regeneration doesn’t work, and as AFO uses more power he has to start using more quirks to hold his body together.

AFO’s greed burned out his own “vessel.” AFO’s overuse of his quirk condemned Tomura’s body, not Izuku.

Izuku knows exactly what’s happening because All Might warned him back in Chapter 2 about strong quirks coursing through limp noodle bodies.

But at this point, Izuku doesn’t know that Tenko’s spirit is still around. Izuku thinks he’s fighting pure AFO, and he sees a weakness he can use to end AFO. If Izuku doesn’t use this opening, then AFO will transfer himself to another person (which is likely to be Izuku himself) and begin all over again. Izuku knows this because AFO is screaming about finding a new vessel.

In the vestige world, when Izuku goes for the final strike, that’s when Tenko comes back and adds his fist to the vestige mega-punch. When Tenko comes back, which is itself an unexpected miracle thanks to Nana, there aren’t any “perfect victory” options — it was either smash AFO for good and let Tomura’s body crumble OR let AFO body snatch Izuku (or someone else) and hope that maybe Tenko’s spirit could overcome AFO in that new body — and that’s assuming AFO’s self-transfer would even include Tenko’s spirit. It’s an easy choice for Izuku to make, especially when Tenko himself chooses the smash option.

In the end, Izuku saved the crying little boy Tenko trapped under hatred and AFO’s lies. But Izuku couldn’t save Tomura’s physical body, and I don’t think there was any way he could have. It absolutely haunts Izuku right now — he wanted to save everyone with a smile and he held the strongest quirk in the world, yet he couldn’t make Tomura’s story end happily. Nobody could. To make it worse for Izuku, the world is probably celebrating the hero who destroyed the villain with a punch, because that’s what it looked like on TV. Only Izuku, All Might, and a few others know what happened in the vestige world.

II. What does Izuku think as he talks to Spinner?

Does Izuku think he murdered Tomura? Honestly no, I don’t think he sees himself as a murderer. And he’s NOT. He knows, logically, that AFO engineered a mutually assured destruction scenario with Tomura.

But does Izuku see himself as a failed hero? Yeah, I think so. That kid has so many self-esteem issues to begin with, and his whole self-identity is wrapped around being a hero like All Might. Remember how brutally All Might scolded himself in Chapter 1 when he was struggling to transform and save Bakugo from the sludge villain? I imagine Izuku’s internal monologue is something like that, cursing himself and holding himself to an impossibly high standard. It’s why All Might tried to reassure him in the hospital that he saved Tenko’s soul.

Still, I’m not at all surprised to see Izuku bravely committing himself to remembering Tomura and carrying out Tomura’s final wishes. When Izuku goes to see Spinner, he has to know Spinner will be angry over his friend’s death. And Izuku knows that part of a hero’s role is to validate someone’s pain, because he did that for Tenko.

A hero needs to SEE that crying child and be kind even when the child isn’t. A hero needs to let the child know they’re not alone.

Validation is what happens when Shoto uses Phosphor for the first time and tells Toya: “Dad was a madman! Our family was screwed up! …But you’re not taking any more innocent lives. Aim all your rage at us!” It’s what Shoji tells Spinner during their fight: “We’ve all got scars we carry.” It’s what Ochako tells Himiko: “Maybe this world isn’t a place you can be yourself…but being able to declare what you love, and do it with your whole face…that smile of yours is so perfect I’m honestly jealous!”

Izuku understands there’s no point in arguing with Spinner over who, exactly, killed Tomura. It doesn’t matter. Tomura is gone and Spinner is in pain. Spinner needs his anger and grief over Tomura’s loss validated. He needs his mistreatment as a heteromorph validated. He needs his abuse at the hands of AFO validated.

Izuku doesn’t just let Spinner call him a murderer; he lets Spinner call him a “sick puppy,” he lets Spinner talk about the destruction of Deika, he lets Spinner vent about how he had given up on life until he found Tomura. Izuku lets Spinner grab him and manhandle him so Spinner can finally express that, to him, Tomura represented hope for major change. Tomura’s death is the death of that hope. And in return, Izuku uses Spinner’s villain name (just as Tomura did). Izuku adds on to Tomura’s message too — he tells Spinner that Tomura wanted to be LOV’s hero. He tells Spinner how much Spinner meant to Tomura, which Spinner didn’t know before.

Simply by listening and sharing what he knew, quirkless Izuku validated Spinner and reached his heart, enabling Spinner to control his own raging quirk.

Izuku saved Spinner. No quirk needed.

And even if hero and villain will never see perfectly eye to eye, Izuku bonds with Spinner, encouraging him to write his book about Tomura to counter the popular media narrative (which winds all around the chapter). Izuku, who is possibly the most celebrated hero on the planet at the moment, encourages a book that will “stick it to heroes forever and ever.” Finally, Izuku promises Spinner that he will never forget Tomura. In return, Spinner finally softens and sends his own message of goodwill to Shoji.

Izuku may have been too late to save Tomura, but he will keep Tomura’s memory alive. In doing so, he saved Spinner and bonded with him, getting Spinner to implicitly admit that some heroes are good people. Izuku and Spinner, our two social outcast narrators, found common ground.

And that’s the beginning of a major change.

[codenamesazanka]

more Deku bashing, if you'll forgive me

Seeing lots of shocked tweets and posts that Deku seems so cold and distant about Shigaraki dying in front of him; that Deku doesn't seem to care much at all; that Deku isn't devastated he wasn't able to save that little boy.

I have to point out that Deku never cared in the first place. He really didn't! It's why he needed to see The Crying Child to feel any bit of empathy for Shigaraki, and why ever since then, he only yammers on about saving the Crying Child and only the little boy. He never gave a shit about the Shigaraki in front of him. Never treated Shigaraki like someone real to engage with. That Shigaraki is unforgivable; and it was impossible to have ever bring the Crying Child into reality because the Crying Child was a memory, it happened 15 years in the past that cannot be changed, so all Deku can do is comfort the Crying Child then beat the shit out of Shigaraki.

I mean, just look at the imagery and the word choices:

Are those the words and expressions of someone who's trying to be careful about not hurting Shigaraki? Actually trying to help someone in pain? I remember when people were excited that Danger Sense would tell Shigaraki that Deku doesn't want to hurt him - turns out nah. He was so ready to make Shigaraki throw up blood.

Deku never tried to talk to Shigaraki. He never asked any questions during the whole time they were fighting. Mirio asked a question and got a response; but Deku? Nothing. Even in the memory-realm, when Shigaraki via memory-villains ask Deku what his plan was, Deku just shouted 'No!' and that was that.

When Deku said 'Somewhere inside of you is a person' he literally meant that. Inside of Shigaraki is the Crying Child, who is the actual person. Did he catch Shigaraki saying 'Spinner will be looking forward to this' and think, 'huh, Shigaraki has someone he cares about, I think? Then he wouldn't want to destroy Spinner, would he?' No. The fan-translation got everyone's hopes up that Deku wants to 'shred the rug' of societal failures, but the official translation was correct - Deku wanted to pry the lid off Shigaraki's trauma, accusing Shigaraki of repressing himself.

If he cared about Shigaraki at all, he would've protested when Gran told him he might have to kill Shigaraki. Instead:

He would've opposed the construction of something called a SKY COFFIN DEATH ARENA. He would've spoken up when Heroes talked strategy about how AFO is the better opponent to fight, implying that it's better if AFO had taken over Shigaraki, despite Shigaraki being the victim of AFO here.

Even when he ends up saving Tenko from Decaying the Shimuras, he's utterly lackluster there. Tenko's in tears, saying that he must have wanted to kill his family, he was born with a quirk like Decay, who could ever validate his existence the way he is??? And Deku's response? "Well. Holding my hand might make you feel better. So here." Saying something like, 'No, you're a child! It's not your fault!' or 'Your quirk isn't meant for harm, it can be useful too' or 'It's okay. You're not an evil existence' seems obvious, but Deku doesn't.

and really, all this has been obvious since the Mall Encounter in Chapter 69. Remember when Shigaraki point blank told him that All Might's smile is stupid because he acts like there's no one he can't save? And it's clearly full of resentment? And Deku picked up on this, which is why next chapter he asks All Might if it's true there are times where All Might couldn't save someone.

But once Tsukauchi said, don't worry about it, Deku did just that. When he does think about it one time, it's this absolutely nothing of a reflection

"I guess we just have to agree to disagree!" Come on. And this kid has a 'drive to save that eclipses all common understanding'??? for real?????

Deku has never given a crap about Shigaraki or Villains. Honestly, him wanting to save that sad little boy might as well be just Horikoshi putting lines in his mouth to move the story along.

If Deku really did care, I think he would've wanted to save the entire person that is Shigaraki. The Crying Child is a phantom - Shigaraki is real and solid and there. The Crying Child is innocent and easy to care about because it's a cute baby and it's openly weepy; saving hand-monster junji ito twink Shigaraki who laughs and talks about destroying everything Deku loves would've been an actual challenge. But clearly we couldn't have that because even the Crying Child was too far gone for Deku to save.

[myheroblogs]

Man, the whole thing with Yoichi and Kudou parting ways is a bit more heartbreaking if you consider the fact that just moments before, Yoichi had to deal with the death of his brother.

Despite everything that he has done, despite everything that has happened, Yoichi still loved his brother. Even though his brother was cruel, he still acknowledges that AFO took care of him when there was no one else. All they had was each other.

His anger in ch 193 wasn't done out of hate, but concern for his brother. Like how a loved one would get angry when they recognize you doing something that isn't good for your well-being.

Nana and Yoichi are in the same position, both having their close relatives on the villain side, but while Tenko has the hope of being saved, AFO is far gone. And while Yoichi has long accepted this, that doesn't mean he won't be affected by the loss of his brother.

We saw Yoichi's expression when AFO gets defeated. People talk about it being a "bombastic side eye", but to me, it's more so sorrowful.

Not long afterwards, we have Yoichi talk like this:

"Don't cling to sentimentality"

"Bringing down Tomura Shigaraki is our reason for still existing"

Yoichi was silently trying to process his brother's death here. Alone. Not even Kudou knows.

And not long after the death of your only family, you're forced to say goodbye to the one person who would still be there for you after all that? The very first person who valued you as a fellow human being?

Damn, I'd break down and cry too.

On a side note, some people are unhappy that the OFA Users are often calling the shots here. But am I the only one who noticed that Yoichi's the only one who doesn't do this at all?

Yoichi's the one who interacted with Midoriya the least. He's the only OFA User who actually doesn't tell Midoriya what to do. The only times he came out to interact with him was whenever he feels like Midoriya's life could be in danger, or that time when he tried to reassure him in Ch 193.

Even when trying to cope with his brother's death, starting to give up on the whole "saving" thing, he never really came out to talk to Midoriya to try to change his mind. He's only in the OFA space the entire time with the other users.

Yoichi doesn't say anything cause he just trusts Midoriya to make the calls. (Hence his "this fight has long been passed to the successors") But he also trusts the other users, so he lets them do their thing.

He's also the one who humanises Tomura, calling him a "successor" like Midoriya, making him an equal. En later calls him out on this, saying the opposite.

Yoichi's the best OFA vestige and he deserves the entire world. Gives this man a darn break. T_T

[thr0wnawayy]

A few weeks ago someone in my inbox asked me what I thought of AFO and of I ever thought he was a proper villain.

My answer is simple: he was.

At first AFO was a mentor. where All Might struggled to teach, AFO excelled.

Always finding a way to turn every play into a learning opportunity.

He allows for the USJ to heppen so he can Tomura "show" that collaboration is important, he uses Stain's rejection to teach Tomura that he has to use tact. He uses the Training Camp to prove that there is strength in numbers

AFO always thinks ahead, he learns from his mistakes and that makes him deadlier than the HPSC could ever hope to be.

The Nomu are a great example of this, the USJ Nomu was a great start, although I suspect it was designed to fail. It served as an excellent display of what a Nomu could be.

The Hosu Nomu failed because of a lack of armour and variety, so AFO made the Forest Nomu better.

The Forest Camp Nomu is seen wearing a helmet and has multiple quirks to account for it's blindspots.

The Forest Nomu failed due to a lack of awareness and intelligence, so Hood was designed specifically for his intelligence and his strength as to not be caught of guard.

(I suspect AFO left some notes for the doctor)

The Nomu came back stronger each time, the data collected was building up towards an optimized specimen( which we were supposed to see with the Finalized High Ends)

Each and every time AFO let Shigaraki use the Nomu, he was killing two birds with one stone.

Additionally, he supports Tomura while not smothering gum

Letting Tomura learn from his own experience (be it successes or failures) and forcing Tomura to learn restraint.

He prevents him from lashing out at any one individual (like he did w Kurogiri) by forcing him to actually work with his teammates.

AFO makes Tomura reflect on why he failed, he encourages Tomura's ventures constantly and gives him advice.

These are hallmarks of someone who wants to see their student succeed.

If that's not enough then there are two lines that solidify AFO'S original character:

The line that really settles me however, is this:

"Just When Tomura had begun to think for himself "

If Shigaraki really were just a puppet from the start, why would AFO go to all the trouble of guiding for him, teaching and training him. Letting him build a legacy of his own and support him.

Why would he hire Giran, after all it will all be for naught, so why waste resources?.

The simple answer is to blame Hori and inability to stay consistent in anything. (In the business we call this, having no fucking spine)

His Character

AFO's terror lay in his simplicity. Like AM, AFO is a man with a goal and he has the means to achive it, something he had worked for decades to achieve.

This is best demonstrated in his early mannerisms.

AFO never lies, he uses metaphors and technicalities to his advantage.

In the prison scene, he never lies about his goal, which was simple. Take out All Might with as a symbol and threat, while also getting Tomura to leave the nest.

He is also a show man, holding out on Tomura's history and turning his retirement into a spectacle to land a critical flow on his nemesis.

He's a master strategist, being able to predict the current state of society within his cell. He took everything AM loved, even going as far as to turn Tenko's tragedy into a triumph and spat on hero society in the process.

In short, AFO was the villain and when All Might walked out those doors, AFO was as good as dead.

The Downfall

Later, everything I mentioned was stripped and what we are left with is a gutted out husk, a shambling mockery of the genius we once knew.

After season 3, AFO might as well be dead because the leech that takes his place was probably the final nail in MHA's rapidly flooding coffin.

AFO goes from being a legitimate threat, a true symbol of evil. Someone so fearsome, that his mere presence causes visions of one's own death.

To a LARPer who's got as much depth as a kiddie pool, evil for the sake of evil.

From Symbol of Evil to (ugh) 'Demon Lord'.

This character is so far removed that I've taken to calling it 'The Husk'. As to me, AFO is canonically dead*.

This emptiness is even displayed in his musical themes

Where 'The Power of AFO' only needs a few simple instruments and hooks to instill dread, 'All For One Prime' falls flat.

The Power of AFO is dread inducing and it knows it. The song itself feels alive, like an unfathomable evil making it's presence known.

It reflects it's "master" with ease. It is dark, sophisticated and unlike any other piece heard in the series, it is quiet.

True power doesnt need to say it is powerful, it shows it through it's actions. Real power stays in the shadows

Meanwhile AFO Prime is lacking.

It's grandeous and "lighter" but that's it, beyond that it is hollow. Ironically representing what Hori did to MHA.

The theme is nice but ultimately uninspired, causing it to ring hallow when coupled with a failing plot that is speeding towards it's quiet demise.

Few more thing's before I check out.

Why the fuck did they change AFO's eyes.

It completely ruined the parallels between AFO, Tomura and Eri, while also the unspoken lore of:

Quirks that deviate from both their parents often share the group traits of (red eyes, white hair).

You know what fuck it, Red Eyed AFO is Canon, Hori can suck it.

Secondly I have a theory for why AFO had such a stark shift in personality (outside of Hori's bullshit)

From My Notes:

When AFO was defeated and saved by the Doctor, he remained in a coma for 2 years, regenerating the missing tissue and brain matter.

This stopped the brain damage and deterioration from getting worse (sort of putting it in stasis), however upon being defeated by AM again at Kamino, the brain damage was aggravated and began to slowly break down his metal state, causing him to become increasingly delirious overtime.

Due to Tartarus' less then ethical treatment and safety protocols, as well as the brainwave scanner not being designed to detect which issues. The issue went untreated, by the time Shigaraki broke into Tartarus, AFO was long lost to mania. So much so he failed to remember his own background and the orgins of those around him.

(Hence the change from Symbol (Pre Kamino, Menacing, Intelligent) of Evil to Demon Lord,)

[explaining why he didn't take Overhaul and why he changed from passing the torch to parasite in "canon" and why he was so out of character (idiotic)] Also explaing the lore inconsistencies throught the later chapters.

Just some food for thought.

[sugoi-and-spice]

Y'all there's no freaking way the mystery character in 425 is Tenko. I don't think it's any character we've met before. (And it sure as hell isn't Deku's dad, god that theory is so dumb). The identity of this new character in fact is basically told to us in Todoroki's line earlier in the chapter.

This is most likely a new character entirely, a Tenko parallel who is on the cusp of becoming a villain and that needs someone to reach out to him the way nobody ever did for Tenko. Someone that's going to put Deku's new resolve and mission to the test. It's Horikoshi's way of saying that just because the heroes defeated Shigaraki and All for One, that doesn't mean that they're victorious - they've only gone back to square one.

But square one and the status quo is not a win for these heroes. They need to better their world and build towards a bright future that will prevent the creation of villains like the League. And I think the appearance of one last villain in this story is a great way to show that.

Deku and friends had to use the old hero ways to defeat the League, yes. But now they get to decide what the new image of a hero looks like. And maybe they can even get rid of the idea of villains altogether.

So, no. Even as a die-hard Shigaraki simp, I am not putting my bets on the "Tenko is revived" horse. And honestly? I don't even think I want this character to be Shigaraki or Tenko or whatever version of him people think it will be. I think that would actually invalidate his death earlier even more. Because if nothing else, Deku did save that crying child within him. He did heal Shigaraki's heart and get him to let go of his hatred. But look at this guy:

This man is in fucking DISTRESS. He has none of the acceptance or calm or even will to fight that Shigaraki had - during his death or otherwise. I think if this was the Tenko that was resurrected, someone so clearly disturbed and in pain, then it would make the one save Deku did make in that fight completely meaningless.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I don't technically hate the way Shigaraki went out. I'm glad that in the end, he died as himself rather than turncoating to join the heroes. I'm glad he's not going to be rotting in prison for the rest of his life. And I'm glad his legacy is clearly going to live on in this world through Deku, even if he doesn't personally.

This issue that I have with Shigaraki's death is the pacing of it. That's all.

I'm still not giving up hope that Shigaraki comes back as a vestige/force ghost though. That for me feels like the only way to bring him back that wouldn't totally undermine the climax of the story.

[vaguelyaperson]

as much as i understand shigaraki's death, narratively speaking, i'm also so goddamn tired of society needing martyrs.

what made me fall in love with shigaraki is that he's an excellent villain. all his character development built towards him becoming a more competent, driven, effective villain. he became an incredible symbol of fear just as deku became an incredible symbol of peace. this is who he was, in entirety. there is nothing else shigaraki could be.

when shigaraki told izuku, in his final moments, to pass on the message to spinner that "shigaraki fought to destroy until the very end," it really emphasized how it would have dishonored him to be vegeta'd, as it were.

shigaraki made it his mission to tear down hero society. this was his noble mission. this is what made him a hero to the league of villains. because he saw the systemic evils, he saw the evils that hurt his friends, and sought to destroy it all.

there's something to be said about trying to change someone who doesn't want to change, but for shigaraki, it was more than just trying to rehabilitate him from mass murdering. because to him, and the league of villains, what he was doing WAS the right thing. to tell shigaraki not to destroy would be akin to telling deku not to save. "you may not understand, but that's what makes me the villain."

there was a binary choice here: either he'd be left free to complete his mission and destroy everything, or he'd be stopped, permanently.

Izuku, by reaching tenko's heart, but ultimately stopping shigaraki, was choosing the only third option he had: declaring that he would not let all of society be destroyed, but not without promising that he'd do everything he can to reform it here on out.

shigaraki destroys. deku saves.

that's it. that's the bnha narrative in its most basic foundation. horikoshi did not fail to tell that story.

I think what ultimately fucking sucks about this ending is that it's too realistic. society often DOES need a martyr - or often martyrs - to realize that they fucked up, that they let an evil persist too long. they need a shocking enough tragedy to point to and swear they'll never let it happen again. society needs to be rocked to its very core before people can be motivated to get their heads out of their asses and work together towards reforms.

and that in itself is an evil, that people can't see how much harm they're causing or condoning without some horrific tragedy.

i think we're all mad at horikoshi for failing to follow through on the story because we didn't WANT the realistic ending. we wanted the hopeful one. the against all odds one. we didn't want another story about society using the image of martyrs to get its shit together. because we already know that story. and we're so so so tired of it.

especially when we know it only leads to a temporary peace.

because people forget. they put in enough reforms to feel good, and then get comfortable and ignorant again. when does that cycle end? when can we finally notice the evil in time to PREVENT it? so that everyone, 'heroes and villains,' get a happy ending?

I think our anger with the bnha ending is good. we want different - not just in fiction, but in real life. we're willing to hope for different. we should hold onto hope and fight for different.

[redphlox]

Are you feeling about Touya? I can't imagine Horikoshi it would be way too cruel, especially since him and Shouto need to eat soba together.

Feeling hopeful. I know the general consensus in the Dabi fandom right now is fear and despondency but when I look at the overall picture of the story, Touya dying doesn't make any sense and there's a lot of setup for him to survive.

The random guard/whoever saying Touya is heading toward a slow death means nothing to me. Not when Ujiko, the brilliant (but evil) doctor who saved Touya from certain death on Sekoto Peak, was wrong about Dabi's body not surviving a month after he woke up from the coma. The core of Touya's character is literally about survival and determination, going above and beyond to exceed expectations to live and be seen. I also feel that there might be something within Touya that allows him to survive, which is how he has any fire resistance at all. He was crying actual real tears this chapter instead of blood, which hints that his body is healing. I've seen other people theorize that Shouto's Phosphor has healing properties, which is promising and more in line with the stories' themes and messages than Touya dying again.

Overall, the tone of the Todoroki family arc is positive and hopeful. Yes, Fuyumi quit her teaching position, but one of the students' parents helped her find another one. This means that not only does this one parent believe in her, but so does this new employer. And those kindergarteners that Shouto connected with during the remedial license Arc have been supporting him this entire time. These instances show that society is changing their attitude towards the relatives of those who commit crimes and are willing to accept the Todorokis back into society and are literally cheering for them. This doesn't change the fact that some people will definitely hate them, but it's not all doom and gloom. And the soba thing - what a way to connect to someone who was born to replace you! That's a deep connection right there, and that's good. The story has focused a lot on connections and how life-saving and important those can be. Dying would rip that connection and go against the themes

Also, I feel like the Todoroki family would be much more worried and emotionally wrecked if they thought Touya was actually dying. Endeavor keeps talking to Touya about the future and visiting him. Unless all of them are in denial about what is happening, then why would they torture themselves talking about something that can't happen? All these conversations they want to have etc etc. It would be cruel, and Horikoshi is a sensitive guy. I don't think he could write something like that, and it doesn't fit what he's written so far.

To go further than Touya, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Toga and Spinner also on their deathbeds currently too, tbh. I'm thinking that mysterious new character (who is Tenko, no doubt), saved by his regeneration quirk, may help them. There's set up for it via Kurogiri telling Shigaraki his friends are waiting for him, and not to mention Shigaraki's always been the hero of the lov. He might not have saved them emotionally like the hero kids did, but he can save them physically. I'm not sure how exactly it'll all happen but I think they will all be okay in the end.

I know some readers have a different, more critical/negative opinion than I do, and that's fine. Ever since Shigiraki died, I've been saying that it's going to get worse before it gets better and that we're not going to see a resolution to that soon, and that's all been happening. I hate this saying, but, it's not over till the fat lady sings. I'm just going to keep on reading. I keep telling my friends this over and over again but it's kind of like reading the last Harry Potter (author is dead to me) book and stopping/rage quitting when Harry is killed by Voldemort in the forest. Keep reading. The story is not over yet, and a lot can change for the better. Let Horikoshi tell his story.

[moodyvoid]

so uh, how…we feelin…

SAD but I’m a pro at being in denial, so Tomura’s alive until it’s spelled out for me by Horikoshi himself lol

If it’s for real the end for him, I’m a bit disappointed. It felt a little anticlimactic. Weirdly enough, I feel the same about AFO, too honestly (even though I hate him). It just kind of felt like *poof* they’re gone! after all this build up.

I wanted a bit more for the league and if this is how they all go out… it’s just kinda disappointing. 😕

But we’ll see!! Hori could totally surprise us next chapter! It’s not over yet!

I’m hoping maybe somehow Tomura’s quirk originally having a reconstruction factor to it may play a role. Others have said perhaps it’s only the death of “Tomura Shigaraki” and not Tenko Shimura. I’m still holding out hope!

[sakubabypowa734]

🚨BOKU NO HERO ACADEMIA CHAPTER 429 SPOILERS ALERT!🚨

This is chapter kinda upset me cause the plot was interesting but too rushed... anyway...

Uraraka blamed herself to being the cause of Toga's death. Yeah... now it is totally confirmed...

Deku ran to her but she didn't want him to come near here. She tried to cover her face for not showing she was crying. At first, she thought she was alone, crying her soul out, so she asked how Deku knew she was there and how he came here...

Deku tried to rassure her, called her his hero for all the things she did for him and he offered his hand to put her heart at ease.

Both of them shared their regrets of Toga's and Shigaraki's death, not being able to save them,...

Uraraka cries harder and Deku started to cry...

My gosh! They need therapy!...

The rest of the class came

Tsuyu litterally pushed Deku away to hug Uraraka.

Deku felt his little ember, Bakugou asked about it to him and some of the class 2A asked why he didn't tell them about it!

Monoma has statue like some of them.

And we can see Aoyama's goodbye party and little cutie Eri singing like a rockstar!

Everyone look so happy!

Look like Tenko! Maybe it was him!

Grandma's redemption?

Don't know and don't care but happy she learned something and did just like Deku did that day, everyone felt like they needed to do something. She told him: “It's fine now, because grandma's here”

The boy looks at the old lady and starts to cry.

Chapter end with Deku and Uraraka smiling for real now.

5 August, last chapter of My Hero Academia!

Predictions?

- Hope it will be a longer chapter

- Bakugou and Deku moment just them both, not like hospital room scene where All Might and Bakugou's parents were there

- End with Bakugou and Deku cause, come on! The serie started with them!

- I will let go the fact we will meet Midoriya f**in' Hisashi

- Thank you for everything Hori-sensei! Take care!

[bibibbon]

MHA chapter 417 (rant)

What in the time travel is this?!?! Why is it always time travel I swear this could of been solved without it and you're basically telling me that shigaraki is so evil that yes we need to go back in time and change fate itself so nothing happens and somehow crack the case that tenko is stuck in and completely differentiate tenko and shigaraki

Why are we just stuck in the past?!?! This overlaps with my first point but why are we in the past again it seriously makes no sense. What happend to the fight?!?! What is Izuku's body doing now what is shigarakis body doing now?!?!? What happend to the whole they're memories are becoming one because right now all Iam seeing is shigarakis memories and none of izukus this feels like shigaraki just trauma dumping and showing Izuku all this stuff he went through because Izuku somehow needs to understand shigaraki like it isn't shigaraki who doesn't understand Izuku and izuku has more understanding than shigaraki does. Plus what was the thing about them becoming one person when that didn't happen at all?!?!

Did Izuku seriously lose all of his quirks?!?! So izuku just lost all his quirks except of float shimura's quirk of course cos she just needed to be there doing nothing but apologising for her failures and somehow breaking a barrier of tine space jumbo stuff to basically did this time traveling thing and woah does this suck poor izuku went through absolute living hell to get this Quirk, train with it and fight with it just to lose it and lose all his hope and dreams in the process. The ending where he becomes some bimbo stuck raising Tenko is ever so closer and closer and I absolutely hate it also I seriously hate that we didn't get a farewell or anything that happend so quick and how did it impact shigaraki?!?!? It doesn't look like he was impacted and then shimura is only there because of the annoying power of rejection somehow somehow a power like this exists because willpower or something

Where did stain, redestro and overhaul come from ?!?! Why was this there like seriously what was this for?!? Was this to be like oh izuku are you ready for changing future time travel stuff balh blah blah and we are just spirits here to haunt you before making this important decision?!?!? Also if izuku broke the barrier and almost got run over by a truck then how the actual hell did those three come into that space at the same time isn't this messing with the past future and present typa of thing because to me it seriously makes no sense how they're there?!?!

The shimura family left a bad taste in my mouth. Bruh the shimura family confrontation went down the bin for real tho. Like nothing happens except kotaro hits his child, nana is crying and that's it nothing else. What happend in between did nao come and do what she did last time did shimura and kotaro see eachother or was it just a transfer thing to Tenko and some and how is it that izuku has to witness death or is probably gonna die next chapter because of decay. Remember izuku has no quirks he is freshly quirkless again and the others can see him but haven't said anything?!?! This was seriously horrible like are we gonna get a kotaro redemption or something because he definitely is better built up for one than endeavour ever was but nope he will slap child on face get hated done and over maybe he will realise his wrongs probably not. Also are you telling me that no one did anything about the random kid with the UA uniform in their house like?!?! What did Hana and nao do?!?! Why does the corgi have to die again?!?!?? BLAMING NANA FOR SOMETHING THAT SHE Could CONTROL AND MAKING HER SEEM LIKE THE REASON KOTARO BECAME AN ABUSER WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS A BAD MOTHER WHEN THATS NOT THE TRUTH IS HORRENDOUS ABSLOUTELY AND UTTERLY RIDICULOUS

Dark deku really?!?!?! Was this what momo was talking about like Iam so confused is this just supposed to be a little mental challenge obstacle for izuku because we know hori didn't let him face or develop from his previous mental issues that were caused by his bullies and especially bakugo so is he finally semi acknowledging fans that talk about this and was like look he has to confront himself bs and the confrontation doesn't last long at all. Like Armin from aot has better confrontation with himself then this. Or is this some thing where izuku becomes dark due to him and shigarakis memories becoming one or something

@doodlegirl1998 pointed out that this manga panel ☝️ looks like kurogiri dark deku and I can't stop thinking about it and how bad this is 😭. Izuku didn't even get to acknowledge anything and kurogiri is legit a dark version of oboro 💀💀

[aucatgirl]

I'd like to hear your complaints about mha please. I think rei should've rolled her ex husband off a cliff.

SIGH. Here is my official diatribe against MHA’s ending. This is definitely not my first rodeo with a series I love and had hope for having a bad ending but wow this one stings harder than usual

What’s craziest about all this is how much I defended this manga up until the last ten chapters. I loved this manga so much and had such high hopes for it. My own MHA social circle was nothing but huge fans that also had high hopes, some criticisms about things but willing to give the benefit of the doubt… But then 420 happened and I snapped out of it (and then my mutuals also snapped out of it, one by one, lol). It was so rushed and baffling that it actually ruined my day when it released, lmao. Deku regaining his arms via Eri ripping off her horn via child mutilation was only the beginning and I was not prepared for the everything else that would happen

The biggest issue starts and ends with Deku, who apparently got a secret lobotomy during the dark Deku arc and has not been written the same since. He completely loses his ability to be introspective in any capacity. “I’ve been having these thoughts about Tenko too” where?? Where is it??? Where is literally any of your real thoughts on Tenko or losing OFA or anything??? This manga used to have such an interesting insight into Deku’s mind. And it’s just, gone. A big issue with Shigaraki’s death goes back to that. Where’s the reflection?? “Show don’t tell” doesn’t work that well with a protagonist that barely shows any emotion at all!!

When it comes to the saving Shigaraki plot, I saw some mutuals suggest that Horikoshi changed his mind on the ending at some point between the togachako fight and 423. I reread those chapters and disagreed. Deku being unable to save Shigaraki is a plot twist and it’s a BAD one. All of the build up leading to 423 is that Deku would save Shigaraki, not just his soul, full stop. Unless it really was a last minute change or pushed by editors/SJ, I cannot imagine that this ending was not planned the way it was, so I will criticize Horikoshi as such. The twist was ass. And now we’re left with an ending of “well we can try to prevent villains, but if they’re already villains, beat ‘em up!” which is just.. AUGH!!! Completely throws Twice’s death down the drain!!! I can’t believe we were left with “we’ll do better next time” when the whole point was that the next generation would do better than the previous… Deku’s generation was supposed to be that one!! Not to mention that All Might seemingly forgot about his personal connection to Shigaraki…

It’s also wild that the togachako plot was the best written tragedy while also being the most offensive of all of them. I don’t care how many people Toga killed 😭 she was explicitly queer. At least izuocha didn’t happen, that would’ve made things so bad I don’t think I would’ve been able to interact with the series anymore. It was a one-off line but Toga’s death had the most direct impact on improving society, however, it was a ONE-OFF LINE, there is zero indication that Uravity is as prominent of a hero as this line makes you believe, which sucks. Also, the fact that the cameras got retconned is ridiculous, just another knife twist of completely gutting the theme of rehabilitation and societal changes on how people view villains

And… that’s not even mentioning what the fuck happened with 3baka. I understand the rush. Horikoshi has health issues, there are time limits for endings. I would’ve been okay with just the rush. But the writing decisions that were made… why the fuck did Kurogiri die like that?? In the most baffling, inconsequential way possible? Aizawa wasn’t shown, Mic didn’t react, it’s never brought up again except for a tiny, tiny panel of Shirakumo’s grave. I guess the whole plot with nomu and how they’ve slowly been humanized was just completely scrapped, because Kurogiri’s death was more inconsequential than Hood’s. If you’re going to kill Kurogiri, make him die by AFO’s hands. It would’ve worked a lot better as a tragedy rather than random and unnecessary Bakugo moment

This is honest to god one of the worst pages in the entire series:

Finally okay I honestly don’t care for the Todorokis so I don’t really have any strong thoughts on their ending. The ending Dabi got is actually better than I expected after Shigaraki died lol. Though I do agree that Rei pushing around Endeavor in his wheelchair is a hilariously bad look and I don’t know why Horikoshi thought it was a good idea

Here is one thing I will say, though. One final word:

Foster brothers Shigaraki and Kurogiri never got debunked!! Can’t have your theories be wrong if you get no information about a character!

[kaleidoscopedrawsjpg]

Ok, some current thoughts via text posts. MHA Manga spoilers (kinda)

MHA is ending (the manga) and well, with only a couple of chapters left I feel like we're not going to get anything like an ending for My Guys and their whole back story/trauma. And I'm quite mad about it.

We got a drawn out plot line for these guys, we got their whole flash back trauma moment in a spin off manga. We got bits of it through the main story.

We got finding out that their school BFF wasn't killed as a child (right in front of them) and was turned into a Nomu that they fought multiple times before finding out he was their school friend.

We got glimpses of him still being in there, and the hope and possibility of him being able to be saved or brought back.

We got him saving them from plummeting to their deaths after falling off sky platform and then warping them to where they needed to be.

We did not get a conversation, an argument, an explanation. Not really. And I really needed it.

Most people were following MHA for Deku and class 1A and the Hero's and the plot. I stuck around cause I fell in love with these two/three dumbigos who had their own tragedy that led to them both becoming teachers, with two completely different reasons.

To me I always saw Aizawa becoming a teacher because Shirakumo always praised his care for others and helped him realise he had that quality Which at first appeared to be a solitide/shyness and separation from others, but was just a lot of self doubt. We don't know if there is a pre-school reason for his personality/attitude, but it seems to be to do with his quirk? Like, he's almost Tenko level, where his quirk could have been something else in villain hands.

And for Mic I always thought he chose teaching (and DJing and taking on smaller Hero tasks) as a way to do so much that he wouldn't be able to think to much about what he couldn't do back then. His quirk essentially killed his best friend. He was such a gungho kid, and he obviously has a really powerful quirk. Which he doesn't use to its actual potential and chose other careers that wouldn't need him to go all out.

And now they're just back and school and Aizawa is all broken but still looking after his students like he birthed them. They both look so tired.

I just really wanted a conversation. A moment where all that plot, all those Easter eggs, finally came to head, and all we got was a moment. Like, I dunno, I just wanted more. Maybe it's me, but it seemed like such a big plot to weave into the larger overall plot. Then it just sort of dissolved into Kurogiri helping Shigaraki one last time, and then that was it.

I miss them and I need more. I feel so unsatisfied 😩

[problemswithbooks]

The 6 chapter epilogue moves to 'end' the Tododrama this chapter leaving a divided fandom...

For me I think that given the story the Todorokis have had up to this point it both makes sense and is the best we could have hoped for. I'm not one hundred percent happy with it, but I defiantly don't view as negatively as a lot of people seem to.

First off Touya dying makes sense and this is perhaps harsh but I hope he does. People theorizing that the mysterious Tenko like figure is Shigaraki and he will heal him and the rest of the LoV with his restored Overhaul powers is insane to me. With only four chapters left idk how that would even be covered or concluded, since even if they were healed they would all still be put in prison--it wouldn't erase the fact Touya killed 30 innocent people by his own omission. So, how Hori would cover that kind of plot in a cohesive way in four chapters is beyond me. It's pretty much people wanting a worse story because they want their favorite character to live.

Also, I'm a bit frustrated that yet again people are acting like Enji should die instead and making wild accusations based on nothing. Namely that Touya dying supposedly soonish negates Enji saying he'll watch him and his death will let him off the hook so to speak.

Enji has shown that he really loves Touya and feels immense guilt and rightful responsibility for how he treated him and his the rest of the family. Touya dying doesn't suddenly heal his permanently crippled body or give him back his Hero job. It will only make him feel worse. Also it's not as if once Touya is gone he'll ignore the rest of his family either. He still owes them as well, and will probably try to help them in whatever way he possibly can.

People acting as if Touya's death will free him or that afterwards he'll go on with his life completely happy and forgetting about him is just not in any way accurate to what we've seen of his character.

The other thing I've seen floating around is the idea that if Enji had been killed off during the first PLF War, Shoto would have saved Touya and the family would have been happy in the end. I don't think that's true. I will admit I'm bias because I like Enji and I'm not a fan of Touya, but given how Hori seems to have delt with the LoV and villains in general (unless he pulls a 180 and heals them last min) I think Touya was always meant to end up dying slowly in a hospital or get some other bittersweet ending.

BNHA is not grimdark by any means but it is not the idealistic manga of the past like Naruto. Hori punishes characters that make bad choices no matter how understandable or even shitty the choices they had were. Aoyama, despite helping defeat Afo, being a child and under the threat of death to him and his family, still drops out of UA because he feels he still has to earn his place there. Bakugou dies and his heart and hand will never be the same, while also having to deal with the guilt of Izuku loosing his Quirk (if that sticks). Enji, even though trying to change and atone for most of the Manga's run is still left permanently crippled, the job that meant everything to him, lost, his legacy gone.

For Touya who killed so many people without care, only to get back and his father. Who plotted to kill his little brother despite knowing he was abused. Not caring if his plans got his other innocent family members killed. After everything we've seen with other characters who did far less wrong and tried hard to amend those mistakes getting harsh consequences, I doubt it was ever the plan to have Touya sitting at the table with his family eating his favorite food with a smile, regardless of Enji being alive or not. To suggest that Hori only had Shoto fail because Hori needed Enji to be involved just isn't true. If Hori wanted to give Touya a happy ending he would have--many fans have already come up with how that could have happened even with Enji still alive.

The only criticism I agree with is Rei's ending. You can defiantly read how she wheels Enji around and answers his phone as them being back together or in the very least her becoming his caretaker. Now, That might not be the case--she could just doing those things because they were both going to see Touya and she's just helping him out that day, while they actually live separately, with Enji having a paid home assistant that couldn't or wouldn't go with him to see Touya (because of the stigma or visiting regulations). The issue is that we just don't know for sure and Rei has been shafted pretty badly.

That said, I wasn't expecting much from/for her anyway. I think getting a little blurb about what she was doing like Natsuo and Fuyumi did would have helped, but I sort of doubt Hori had any idea what to do with her character outside being Enji's abused wife and Shoto's mom. With him rushing to get these last chapters out I'm not shocked he just stuck her in the background, especially when Enji and Shoto as secondary characters needed the screen time.