#and five and lila's relationship

[kvetchinglyneurotic]

my review of the umbrella academy season 4 is that it's not as good as season 1 or 2 (i'm also ambivalent about 3) and there's definitely some parts i Did Not like but overall it was messy in a fun way. i had a good time

[fivelila]

Five protecting Lila is something that made my heart flutter.

[the-diary-of-a-moody-teenager]

Characters who don't know each other, but would hate each other:

[aestophobia]

the allos strike again.

[neilarmstrongssmile]

Ok, I need to talk about it. The Five x Lila thing is uncomfortable and kinda gross to me. But mabye I'm not seeing the vision/my discomfort is not the reason it's a bad idea necesarilly. So... here are some reasons besides that on why it's just a bad idea:

1. Why give Five a love story at all? He had a love story, has had it the whole show - love for his family. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve romantic love (with an actual human), but knowing it's the last season and knowing they have only 6 eposodes mabye don't? Introducing the romance in the second to last episode? And developing it through a montague? It's not enough time

2. What's the purpose of the subway station to the story? The only characters on it are Five and Lila (later also Lila's family + Claire), they don't accomplish anything with it, don't find anything useful, don't learn anything new. It's an excuse to have them get lost there, so that they could fall in love. IT'S THE LAST SEASON! Don't waste a cool location like that! Why didn't other characters get there? Why didn't they get Bennifer there and put Ben on one train and Jennifer on another while they think of another permanent safe solution? Use the subway station for actual plot or get rid of it - and that way we don't have the out-of-character falling in love crap

3. Ok, thay are lost, it's been years, they are loosing hope, they are clinging to the only other real thing. There's no guilt? No talk of Diego, Lila's children? There's no false start? They just kiss, remark it's not weird and live idyllicly together? I don't need depressing scenes of them crying for their family and hating themselves for being together, but what we got was not a relationship created by necessity but a normal falling in love story as if Lila isn't MARRIED CURRENTLY to Five's BROTHER! There should be some weirdness, some discussion of what exactly their relationship is, what would happen if they managed to come back. It's inconsistent (with previous characterisation but that's another thing) - are they genuinly in love, or using each other? Is Lila trully happy and in love, or pretending, while being desperate to come back to reality with Diego and her kids? They seem really in love, but after Five finally (5 months!?!?? WTF that's gross) shows Lila the notebook and she leaves she makes it seem as if she's choosing Diego and her marriage. But then she cannot answer 'Do you love him?', gives Five longing glances, is holding his hand... I know that she could be confused and unsure but it doesn't seem as if she doesn't know, it seems like she acts in the way for all the scenes to be dramatic even if it contradicts what happened previously.

4. So they manage to go back, Lila doesn't immedietly confess to Diego, and when the truth comes out Five is mad? He is in the wrong! He went after his brother's wife, he should be apologetic, he should feel weird to be in Diego's home, not combative. Yeah, your love life is complicated and not everything is roses after your return but it's on you YOU WENT AFTER A MARRIED WOMAN! WITH KIDS! And you're mad at her husband for being mad at you? No, he should be ashamed. And ok, get mad later, say that you were finally happy, and now it's gone, scream it at Lila or Diego, but not from the get go. That makes him seem like such a scumbag .

5. You wanted Five to have a romance. In my opinion unnecessary, but do you. You wanted it to be with Lila. In my opinion very weird choice, but sure. Why have Lila and Diego married? We have a 6 year time skip. They could have been just co-parenting and no longer together (and never married). Why make a subplot where Diego thinks Lila is cheating on him (as a joke) to then make it a reality? Why not have Diego and Lila have this season to grow close as friends and co-parent as a unit after years of conflict and have Diego be supportive of this weird incestuous relationship? (TUA unfortunately is no stranger to that, and UA already has weird and complicated relationships all around) instead of falling apart in such a fashion? IT'S THE LAST SEASON at the very least have all our main characters go out without conflict with each other. Five's lat words to Diego were 'I'm gonna kill you'.

It seems they made this whole thing as messy as possible, but then didn't dive deep into the mess to have some actual drama, didn't adress the mess, didn't vindicate any of those characters. And if you're just creating mess and don't engage with it, and it's THE LAST SEASON mabye you should've just left it alone - Lila and Diego together and happy, and Five doing everything to be with his family, safe. I'm dissapointed.

[kacievvbbbb]

The fact that Viktor was right there! They were right beside each other and Five didn’t even look at him. Viktor who was his closest sibling and probably his best friend for all he knew the concept of it. Viktor who made him those disgusting marshmallow sandwiches for months hoping he’d come back to eat them. Voice who was all Viktor had when they were kids didn’t even look at him. The world was ending they were about to die and Five didn’t share a moment with a single member of the family he crossed timelines to save. STEVEN! WHAT WAS THE RECIPE!

[pepperf]

Pop quiz, hotshots! Which would you rather have:

A relationship that, when it goes wrong, you can tell the other person that you need a break to reassess your relationship, and they will discuss this calmly, let you go, and then go away and think about what you said, agree that they were in the wrong, and start working on ways to fix their own behaviour;

OR

A relationship that, when you want to leave, they tell you that you don't really want to go, that you're happier with them, that you should isolate yourself from your family and friends so you can stay with them - and when you disagree and tell them the relationship is just a matter of necessity, they start in on your other relationship (which they have apparently decided is the reason you're going back, despite you making no mention of it), telling you that it's broken, that you shouldn't go back to him - and when you tell them to butt out of your personal business, they tell you they're entitled to have an opinion because you've been stranded alone together for a long time...

Is that or is that not what happened? Because I remember Lila making herself pretty clear on these points, but apparently a bunch of people think we should disregard a woman's expressed opinion about her own life, and go with what she's being told. Because Five knows best, amirite? Gosh he's so smart and clever! And he deserves this - he deserves Lila, no matter what Lila herself says. He's owed it by the universe, because he had a bad life.

Lila did have another relationship like that, where she was told what to do, kept in the dark, told that the other person knew what was best for her...and it wasn't Diego.

[bluesyjean]

I think the whole Five/Lila debacle would have been easier to swallow if they'd had one actual conversation that made them feel like the same characters.

Five is responsible for everything that Lila went through, since childhood. These are huge things to get over before she decided to be involved romantically, even if we set aside the fact that she's married (to his brother) with three kids. IF THEY HAD TO DO IT (they didn't) that deserved a 5-10 minute conversation on screen.

Five killed Lila's parents (How did they not talk about them being alive again, it's insane to not get her feelings about it)

Five had a long weird/creepy relationship with the Handler/her adoptive mother, who was implied to have a past with him when he was in his older body

The Commission shaped Lila's entire life, trained her to be a killer, be manipulated by her mom, ALL OF THAT was because of Five quite literally founding the Commission

Five is the reason Lila was assigned to watch Diego, their relationship happened because the Handler wanted him to kill the board and put her there

"They're such similar characters" or maybe Five just forced her to be like him to survive, what if we explore that?

Instead they just have a montage of them having the time of their lives patching each other up and playing chess, then gently bantering about not having enough strawberries for winter if she keeps throwing them at him.

To buy into that is to assume that nobody remembers anything about these characters. They are so much more interesting than you made them out to be.

[imnotyetfound]

Day 4: Angst (x)

@fivelaappreciationblog

[corvid-ghost]

How did they let Lila and Diego go from her risking it all to have him by her side even though they only knew each other for a couple months and him hiding her away from danger to keep her and their baby safe, to her and HIS BROTHER having an affair

[pepperuni]

Just started the 5th ep of tua s4 and idk if this is controversial for some but I just came to here to say i do NOT support five x lila!!!! can writers please stop going "well, if 2 people spend an extended amount of time with just each other, OF COURSE they'll fall in love"!!!! lila is still married and also an adult!!! five is aroace and in a minor's body (or close to, idk his exact age atp)!!!

(Please don't take this too seriously i beg)

[chaoticcrowss]

conspiracy theory:

Steve Blackman originally wanted five to have the fivla arc thing with the handler (if you look at their interactions in s1 and 2 it's pretty clear IMO that the handler had a thing for five) but for some reason switched it to five and Lila

chat, am i cooking?

[fivelila]

Why do I think Diego and Lila's relationship was toxic?

No, this isn't going to be a post where I want to bring up the rightness of Lila and Five's relationship and throw dirt on Diego. Not in the least. I want to discuss the real events of the story. Here we go.

Season 2

2x01

Diego has been in a psychiatric asylum for 75 days; it is not clear from the plot how long Lila has been there with him. A fateful meeting and escape together? Not exactly, since Lila is being set up by the Handler. Besides, Diego doesn't want her to have anything to do with his plan. But Lila has no respect for his wishes and joins him for the sake of her mission. Yes, she helped him during his escape, but their entire situation was built on a lie.

2x02

Diego wants to split up after the escape, but Lila doesn't want to. Later, he wants her to leave again when Lila is rude to him. But she stays. Then Five shows up and Diego agrees to leave with him and that Lila will go with them - which doesn't really make sense, he's wanted to get rid of her several times up to this point and now he's had the perfect opportunity to do so.

It's kind of weird how quickly Lila gets involved in their stuff. She's a stranger to Five, but he might think Diego knows her well and trusts her (since he wanted her to go with them). But Diego changes his attitude towards her unnaturally quickly. And I'm not really sure why. Was it just because he was attracted to her? Seems like a weak reason to me.

Their first sweet scene? If Lila wasn't pretending to be someone else. I mean, she went on to play "Lila from the asylum who doesn't understand what's going on" but it wasn't really her. We know Lila was highly intelligent and when she looked scared and confused about things that were going on, it wasn't real. In fact, in the context of things, I don't know exactly what to make of that moment. But it seems like it was a play on his emotions.

2x03

Yes, well, Lila helped Diego in this scene. But I found her medical methods a little questionable, ngl.

And their first time? Well, honestly, the most honest part for me is when Lila confides in him about her family. That was real and I think she took advantage of finally being able to talk to someone about it. But the subsequent kiss and the rest. I already wrote this in another post, but Lila definitely seemed very taken aback after the kiss, that he took advantage of her weak moment and their bonding felt like part of a plan to be able to stay on with Diego, but not for his sake, but for her mission.

I don't want to say she didn't mean to do it, yet her expressions don't look happy. And then there's the question of whether it's because of what happened before or what happened after (meeting Handler) because Lila seemed cool there.

2x04

Yes, the dance scene and the sparks fly. But also, when Lila wants to lead Diego in the dance, it makes Diego a little out of tune. A small demonstration that her open-mindedness and reversal of established roles is not something he likes. It's just that at the same time, Diego is charmed by her, and perhaps so he doesn't even notice her minor manipulations. It seems to me that Lila is testing how much Diego will be inclined to do things her way.

The rest of the episode is more Fivelila, but the moment Lila chooses to save Five and not him, it's clear she's hit him with it and doesn't understand why she did it and turned her back on him. Handler's instructions to her were still above everything else.

2x05

Diego is hurt that Lila didn't help him. And he begins to suspect that Lila is lying to him, but only after Five starts talking about it when Lila becomes suspicious (proof that Diego was kind of blind to her and needed to open his eyes). Later in the episode Five finds out the truth about her.

--

To be continued next time if you are interested...

[dominik528]

-- Sabrina Carpenter

[euinein]

What is this shit? Wtf is this??? I was so excited for season 4, I was like this is gonna be the best season yet.... I've never been more disappointed in my life.

[where-dreams-dwell]

**** Spoilers for TUA S4 ****

My frustration with the Lila/5 plot in S4 is that they had such a complex and layered relationship already, developed across S2+3 and which truly felt earned by the time we rejoin them in S4. Why would you ruin that by introducing romance?

Lila and 5 have always had a fascinating relationship, mirroring one another and matching one another in a way no other character’s can.

Lila is the only other character to have lived, worked in and experienced the Commission and to therefore know how 5 thinks and operates because of it. Similarity 5 was also once the tool of the Handler, used to do her dirty work and to be wielded against her enemies for her own interests. Lila was in many ways 5’s replacement; the Handler decided to raise her from a child so she would be more malleable and easy to groom in comparison to 5 who was a grown man with trauma from decades of isolation when she recruited him.

Even in this they are mirrored: 5 would definitely see similarities in the Handlers parental manipulation to Sir Reginald’s brand of parenting. Both parents out for their own interests and keen to have superpowered children to deploy as and when they wish.

In S2 once both of them are aware who the other is and how powerful they are, their interactions show their balanced nature. They meet one another punch for punch, witty quip for witty quip. Lila’s powered aids in this as she is literally using 5’s own ability to fight him: visually they are mirrors of one another through that fight scene, through to the end of the season. Lila is the only character we’ve seen able to fight 5 to a standstill for any period of time.

Then throughout S3 we see their relationship develop from grudging acceptance via the proxy of Diageo (she’s my brothers girlfriend vs he’s my boyfriends brother) to actual reliance upon one another. By the end of S4 they acknowledge and appreciate one another’s strengths and truly feel like sibilings in their bantering and teasing relationship. 5 actually calls her family, and Lila’s behaviour towards him becomes familial: ruffling hair, teasing, dancing alongside them all.

There would have been such opportunity for more growth in the subway if they kept it platonic.

Let’s dive into 5’s trauma-bonding to Delores due to lack of human contact; Lila takes up drawing and paints a mural of Diageo and her children, which she talks to every evening. It starts as something funny and to poke fun at their situation but she confesses to 5 that she’s actually come to rely on it, imagining their responses to her questions and guessing what their life has been without her. 5 has the opportunity to be honest about Delores and his love for her; he knows she’s a manaquin but

Have them bond over abusive narcissistic parents: Sir Reginald and the Chairwoman had a lot in common, how is Lila dealing with that as a mother now herself? They grew up running training drills and completing missions: stuck on their own they probably would create obstical courses of doom and fight one another for first place.

Let’s fucking talk about 5’s clear trauma from his first isolation: the poor guy was alone for 40 years with no one, and as a result he put his sibling bond upon a pedestal and risked everything to save their lives. This continues through multiple timelines and in the face of all their shenanigans, even when they are foiling his own plans; through it all 5 will defend his siblings at the expense of anything and everything else. This trauma-bonding to his siblings, when he’s been separated from them for twice as long as he was with them, shows the lasting impact of this isolation on his ability to form relationships or let relationships end. Now he’s once again separated from them; he’s probably going to be bouncing off of the walls about that, and it would be fun to watch.

Plus being on his own again?! Let’s have 5 rage at Lila about it, break down and despair over having to do this all over again. This time he has Lila to talk to but he’s still trapped in a version of his own personal nightmare. The whole attempt to save his family must feel completely useless because here is is again, at the end of the world, alone and without his family.

The plot wouldn’t have had to be changed much at all and we would have gotten fantastic character exploration, and more of the sibling bonding moments that are so key to carrying the show through its more ridiculous or fantastical moments.

On top of all of this one of the key characteristics of 5 and one of his main motivations is his love for his family and his need to protect them. He’s lied, betrayed and murdered people in cold blood all in the name of familial love. Why *on earth* would a character with that history ever consider a romance with his brothers wife and the mother of his brothers children?! Are they trying to argue that if Sloan has been able to come with them after the reset and it was her who was trapped with 5 for all those years, then he would have started something with her too? That goes against a core tenant of his character and is a bridge he just wouldn’t cross no matter how alone he felt.

And why does this character just *have* to have a romantic love plot when their entire character arc across 4 seasons has been about their devotion? Whether devoted to their siblings or their ‘manaquin-love’ coping mechanism, 5’s actions have always been to protect the people he loves.

Calling any of these characters stories lacking because the love wasn’t romantic shows how little the writers understand their own story. Nothing felt missing or absent from 5’s character, and their actions have always fit into the wider show narrative that love makes you do crazy things. Whether it’s Alison’s devolution to Claire, Sir Reginald’s devotion to Alyssa, of 5’s devotion for Delores The Umbrella Academy is united and driven by love.