#non romantic relationships

[zer0expektation]

sometimes i think of an interesting fic concept for a fandom other than this one and think to myself, “gee, this is such a good and obvious concept, surely theres fics like this out there” or “ooh, this piece of media had enough dark elements, surely there has to be some good grimdark aus somewhere” and then i open ao3 and am forcibly reminded of the fact that the dream smp is the only fandom that isn’t obsessed with slash fics and i just have to wallow in the lack of nice content and my own inability to write (and, lets be honest here, commitment to most fandoms outside of the dsmp atm) 

like genuinely, i dont think i can name a single fandom outside of the dream smp that has such a wide array of found family/friendship centered fics

stranger things? its all steddie or byler (as much as i love the both), etc.

my hero? its all bakudeku or tododeku or shindeku or literally everyone with deku.

detroit become human? its all hank and connor or connor and gavin or gavin and nines or markus and simon, etc.

our flag means death? its all co-captains (as much as i adore them as well) or steddy hands, etc.

the mcu? its all stucky or stony (or incest or selfcest lmao), etc.

sander sides? its all prinxiety or analogical or moralogical or lamp or lampd or whatever the new lamp plus janus and remus ship name is (yes more selfcest), etc.

gotham tv? its all nygmobblepot or jim and oswald or bruce and jeremiah (which i have so many questions about, but that is not the point of this post lmao)

etc etc

and i genuinely think its to a lot of these fandom’s detriments that everything has to be centered around a ship no matter what (esp mcu spiderman, pleASE GOD JUST GIVE ME GOOD POST NWH PETER PARKER ANGST THE CLOSEST THING IVE GOTTEN IS FUCKING SPIDERMAN!TOMMYINNIT AUS DO YOU SEE MY PROBLEM) because it really stops fandoms and fan-creators from really exploring the platonic and familial relationships between these characters and that exploration being in the main spotlight. 

like sure, steddie is great, but i would love to read a big fic that is all about Steve and Robin moving away from hawkins together and navigating the city and sharing an apartment together and losing their shared jobs every week and continue to explore and establish new boundries and systems with each other and learning things the other never thought were important but brings such important insight into the other that they need to understand each other even better. 

bylers cool, but i also want to read about will and el finally getting to meet each other and know each other and realise theyre so much more alike than they originally thought, never quite being seen as people, as the kids they are, but instead as these cool beacons of their friends’ efforts against the upside down and the government, and them becoming siblings, becoming the wonder twins, i want to see will trying to teach el how to draw, and el showing will all of her favorite tv shows, and the two becoming so intertwined that they know every preference the other has and how they can support each other through public school of a foreign town.

sure, bakudeku or tododeku’s okay, but i want to read a fic all about izuku growing up quirkless and what that means for his relationships and how much closer he is with his mom than other kids his age and how deep his mistrust of any other adults runs and what that means for how he acts once he finally gets to ua and how he sees all might as a surrogate father in place of the man that left him and his mother for the states and how that and his god worship of the man affects how he treats one for all and how he makes his decisions and how he prioritizes what all might tells him over what is actually good for him.

hank and connor is.. something, but why cant we read about how hank sees his son in connor and how it affects him to watch connor make these self destructive decisions in order to prioritize human life and his instructions over himself, and maybe about hank attempting to scare connor into deviancy, into some kind of self preservation, so that the poor thing can at least make a decision for himself and prioritize himself, and not die.

i love the co-captains as much as the next guy, but i want to read about how stede came across his crew, how he came to find out they like the children’s stories that he only held onto to remind him of his children, how he looked at lucius and saw himself in him, how lucius somehow managed to grab hold of every trait stede was bullied for, that was trained out of him, and emphases them and make them into a special kind of armor, and how stede takes lucius under his wing just to watch over him so that the boy will have someone on his side when he inevitably trips in his dance past (lets face it flirts and insults through) every hurtle that caught the heel of young stede’s shoe. how stede now will look up at that painting of a lighthouse and wonder if the problem wasnt that he wasnt a lighthouse, just that he hadn’t found the shore yet, and now maybe he has.

Do you see what I mean? How many fics are there that are like this that you can name off the top of your head? very few i imagine.

on top of this a lot of fandoms, because of their lack of exploration of non romantic relationships within their media dont only miss out on the sweet or bittersweet but the all fascinating grimdark aus that may spawn out of taking an absolute ship-less lens on the media you consume, i mean, the only fandom i can find any good or nuanced grimdark forced family fics in is, again, the dream smp.

and this has happened multiple times, where im watching something and i cant help but imagine how good a ctrinity style grimdark forced family au fic would be with these characters with these dynamics, btw.

(cw for all of the fun stuff that comes with forced family like kidnapping and implied abuse and characters overall being miserable lol - its not important to read, its just examples of dark aus im talking ab, just scroll to “etcetcetc” to skip past all that stuffs)

multiverse of madness, where instead of wanda trying to get to america and killing her in an attempt of getting her to make a portal to a universe where wanda’s boys exist going as far as it does, america offers herself up as her surrogate daughter and bringing the both of them through to them and living a normal life as a family in exchange for wanda to stop tearing places and people apart in this universe and others and for America’s life to be spared. and so she brings them both to a world with wanda’s boys, and wanda is just so so blinded by her own excitement and joy. she discards of that world’s wanda quickly, careful to ensure the boys were still asleep. then weeks, months maybe, go by and the boys start having nightmares but wont tell her why, what the nightmares are about, instead they wait until the door is closed and wanda’s down the hall to murmur in hushed tones about what they saw. (”shes not mommy, is she? mommy doesnt act like that. where did mommy go?”). america tries to pretend everythings fine and that theres nothing wrong with this twisted family dynamic wanda’s built up, but she cant truly hide its affect on her, the bags under her eyes are heavy and her fingers are always twitching, she flinches when wanda gestures with her arms to wildly and freezes when one of the boys accidentally breaks a glass. wanda doesnt stop using the darkhold. she could stop using whenever she wanted to, is what she tells herself, but she just needs to ensure no one is going to show up and take her boys away from her, she has to make sure america remains by her side, she has to make sure nothing goes wrong again. she can stop whenever she wants to, the thing is, she doesnt want to stop.

gotham tv (s4), where ra’s successfully kidnapps bruce and takes him and jeremiah under his wing, trying to raise them both to be like him, maybe barbra gets kidnapped aswell. ra’s wants them to act like a family, him as the father, barbra as the mom, and bruce, jeremiah, and talia as their children. at first this is all jeremiah could ask for. hes close with bruce, his need for simultaneous creation and destruction. a brother he didnt hate, and a present father. at first bruce is all angered yelling and venomous insults and scathing sarcasm. he comments on wanting to go home at every opportunity that presents itself, how he preferred alfreds cooking, he liked jim’s stories better, selina taught him cooler things, some days hed even complain about missing the criminals of gotham in an attempt to emphasis just how much he does not want to be here, no matter how cushy the bedding is or how nice the locals. at first all barbra does is attempt to kill, or at the very least injure, ra’s. some days its a steak knife to the gut, some a fountain pen to the face. ra’s is fine every time. hammer to temple. she doesnt buy time for herself, nor bruce. rope around the neck. she cant even injure him in any long term way. boiled water down the front. for a long time talia is jealous of the attention her father gives bruce and jeremiah. he spends long days trying to train the two in tandem, showing them how to protect themselves and how to injure others, how to tell the differences between the dead languages and how to read the basics, how to earn the trust of others and force them to fall into the trap of owing you favors. that is until she discovers how they all ended up here. shes left wondering if her father truly has the right of the world at heart, if she has to respect him and his decisions just because she is his only true daughter. jeremiah isnt having fun anymore. bruce has gone completely silent now. barbra has long since been subdued and doesnt even try to fight anymore. but talia stays quiet, even as the first time she hears bruces voice in months is when he yelps and tries to cover his face from being struck again, even as jeremiah mumbles to himself about someone named jerome, even as barbra spends her time staring whistfully into a bird bath when shes not cleaning or sitting pretty. (she tells talia, one quiet evening - a break from ra’s training bruce and jeremiah until they break, instead they’re allowed to curl up in a corner together and try to decipher books written in hundreds of dead languages - how she’d been engaged once. she wasnt happy, but she loved him nonetheless. she told her that she wondered sometimes how she would have turned out if she hadn’t left, if they got married. would’ve one of them left the other eventually anyways? would she have still ended up here? talia wishes she didnt talk to her, if only because it made staying quiet and continuing to live her life as a bystander harder.)

etcetcetc

unfortunately though, the dream smp (as far as ive seen) is the only fandom that explores family relationships and friendships so thoroughly and then delves deeper into more dark and upsetting aus (ive already said it once, but c!trinity!!) without there being a worry about weird romantic or sexual implications or plot points (which i partially blame killing stalking for the existence of - kidnappers arent hot pleeaaase) 

some dsmp fics that i cant imagine being nearly as well done - or created at all - if they were written for different fandoms (all on ao3):

the dead dont dream by penink - ctommy dies during exile, multiple times actually, and dream thinks this is the perfect opportunity to test out the revive book

withered by ThatWeirdGuyInTheBush - Manburg is a real country in a world based on the 1940s, and ctubbo decides hes willing to do something drastic for the good of his country

guided evolution by fathermooshroom - ctommyinnit becomes spiderman, unfortunately being spiderman comes with all of the issues of being spiderman and having a secret identity (i cried uncontrollably multiple times dont let the beginning trick you)

If You Need Somewhere Safe by random_on_main - when ctommy finally escapes logstedshire he takes sam up on his offer of giving him a place to stay rather than hiding in techno’s basement

passerine by thcscus (blujamas) - everyones favorite legendary ctechnoblade gives a visit to an old friend and comes to find out hes a king and has two sons

tommyinnit’s clinic for supervillains by bonesandthebees (bonesandcacti) - tommyinnit is seriously just trying to get through life and happens upon a supervillain passed out and bleeding out in an alleyway on his way home from work one night

cataclysm by thanotaphobia - phil and techno finally conquer the country they’d been at war with for the past several years, but when they discover the lone king to the country is a teenage boy they take him as prisoner rather than killing him

the world forgetting by the world forgot by bonesandthebees (bonesandthecacti) - ctommy has forgotten his entire life, all he knows is that villains kiddnapped and used him for his healing powers, and the superhero dream took him in after rescuing him and allowed him to become his sidekick

its now 5 am, i only made this because i was thinking about that one video of someone talking about how weird it was that the top two relationship tags according to the stats ao3 released where gen (wilbur&tommy and wilbur&techno&tommy) and basically making it obvious they only thought the only reason you would write or read fanfiction would be for ships and slash fics and just,, how sad that is, because this fandom has some of the best fics ive read without even considering putting any romance in the spotlight and i think its far more fulfilling to be able to read fanfiction for the sake of a good story rather than getting to see two characters kiss (which is not to say reading fanfiction to see two character kiss isnt exactly what you need sometimes, im just saying theres more out there to love), and also because i was frustrated by the fact that nothing interesting looking came up when i looked up the tags ‘post series: no way home’ and ‘homeless peter parker’ lmao. if yall have any good post nwh angst pls pls pls send it my way, i need desperately to cry over a character that is not tommyinnit please. im gonna crash now, sorry if this long this is shit - its wayy too fucking early.

[redysetdare]

enough stories about how someone learns to truely be happy through love. i want a story where someone is desperately seeking out love thinking it's the only way to be happy only for them to learn by the end that happiness is what they make of it and they don't need love at all to make it.

[casisgoingcrazy]

No, but let’s talk about how they sell us romance.

Let’s talk about how romance is packaged as Friendship But Better. Let’s talk about how getting into a relationship is always seen as a positive, and not an if, but a when. Romantic partners are supposed to be caretakers, best friends, personal chefs, cleaners, mothers, lovers. Who wouldn’t want one?

I put myself through terrible, stressful relationships, because no one taught me that romance wasn’t the quest everyone was tasked with at conception. Had I known that my warped perception of romance wasn’t truly romance, I would have realized I was aromantic sooner. I wanted the romance society sold me. That romance isn’t real.

We often blame ourselves for not seeing the signs of our aromanticism, but how could we? When love is packaged as the one thing we can all relate to and experience, of course we would bend definitions to fit.

[clownsuu]

The fact that you depict characters as both aroace and in relationships makes me actually so happy because everyone always thinks that shipping is off the table for those characters and forgets sex/romance stances exist, you filled me with so much joy ;w;

It’s a weird stereotype indeed smhh (harmful even) making it sound like individuals who are aro/ace are incapable of being/falling in love- or just being able to feel love in general

[mssoapart]

(゜゜;)(。。;)

Uh…I don't know how it'll work, but his head looks like a toaster and you expect me to do NOTHING? (pretty sure it is really one of the used toasters).

PLZ don`t kill my funtime. Also, need more fics about this group.

[hannaxjo]

as an aro there are just some things that i hear other shippers say that make me want to bang my head into a wall

[whump-thoughts]

I am once again thinking about living weapon/guard dog whumpee's....

A living weapon whumpee who is just so extremely conditioned that they will not even sleep or eat if not given permission to do so by their master

A guard dog whumpee that is meant to be at their masters side at all times and also be alert to anyone that could be a threat to them but due to having spent so much time just trapped in a tiny and sound-proofed room being tortured for god knows how long, big crowds or even just like, multiple stimuli will cause them to have sensory overload

Living weapon whumpee that is legitimately terrifying, like they have and will kill at the command of their master and will obey the whims of them without any objections as well.

Multiple living weapon whumpee's! They are all deeply conditioned but also feel a very strong kinship towards each other, even if they cannot show it due to the conditioning

And how about their caretaker's?

A caretaker that is smaller and weaker than whumpee, being unable to carry or restraint them when necessary, yet still is determined to help them

A caretaker that is younger than whumpee and is both scared of and hesitant to help them!, whumpee being completely subservient to them does not calm their fear in the slightest

A caretaker that has given up on deconditioning whumpee, simple trying keeping them in a soothed passive state, where they don't harm others or themselves, but are not healed just using their own conditioning in a different way.

Idk man, sorry if something is written weirdly, it's 3 am and English is not my first language, hope ya thought these ideas were interesting at least.

[rythyme]

really not a fan of boston very explicitly saying "I want to be exclusive romantically but not sexually" only to be told "You're lying to yourself. I think you should be alone."

[galaxythreads]

Foegive me of this is a question you've answered in the past but, what are your thoughts on the scene at the beginning of Avengers 1 where Loki sort of doubles over/trips on his way out of the SHIELD base and it's never addressed?

Also thoughts on the canonicity of various myths to the MCU Loki backstory?

no worries, I don't mind answering questions twice. My blog is long and tales tales, so I understand if people don't want to hunt for answers and just reask stuff.

as far as your question goes,

SCREAMING SCREAMING SCREAMING. Do you KNOW how much I LOVE that SCENE (the answer is no because I haven't talked about it) but I LOVE THAT SCENE! That is THE scene to me. I love everything about how carefully it's handled because what you have to look for is SUBTEXT here, because the Avengers was written in a way that forces you to think. It doesn't lay everything out for you, it's intended you come to your own conclusions.

The Avengers trusts you and that is a very strange thing for media now. It's pretty rare to find one that doesn't treat you like an idiot.

Breaking this down:

The first frame with Loki is of him kneeling. That is the first thing we learn about him. I want you guys to remember that the introduction of a character is HUGE. It tells us the most important things for us to know about that character right now

So what do we need to know about Loki RIGHT THEn. Right at the start of the movie?

he's smart. He opened the portal with the Tesseract, from across space, and teleported himself to another planet. This is something no one has replicated (using an infinity stone from across space). Loki is said to "know it's workings like they never will" which says a lot about him.

Loki was GIVEN the scepter by the Chitauri, but if you watch that opening opening scene, it looks more like it's being forced on him than him GLADLY taking it. (There's this half second where the Other waits to make sure Loki is actually going to hold it. Loki doesn't reach for it until he has to. One of the most powerful objects in existence and it practically has to be shoved into his hands) Look how close their bodies are. Like bro???

-okay, then Loki comes through the portal and he is KNEELING. so the first, and I mean the VERY FIRST thing we need to know about Loki is that he is in the subservience of someone/thing else. This gif below is artwork of that moment, but still. Like. who do you think he's kneeling TO? Well, the opening scene of the Avengers showcases that the Other is kneeling to Thanos, Ergo, using the subtext trust that the director/writers have given us, that means Loki was kneeling to Thanos before he came through the portal.

And then, Loki comes out like a hunted animal, but he legitimately does not remember he's holding the scepter until Fury points it out to him. You can see him look down at it in confusion. And okay, WHY is he confused? I remember watching this for the first time at 14 and going huh, that's kinda weird he forgot he had the weapon. What this is trying to tell us is that this is not a familiar weapon to Loki AND -- it is doing something to him. It's emitting that same misty thing that it does when Loki possesses someone later. That wispy smoke is always so interesting to me because of the implications. The scepter doesn't do that unless it is FRESHLY possessing someone. And what do we know about Loki TWO SECONDS AGO?

he was kneeling to thanos.

Anyway, so Loki gives his name, is not a well man, and the scene you're actually referring to is this one:

which GETS ME EVERY TIME. I could talk aout this scene for hours. The implications of it. (Also if you've read my work YSFSLWFTCA, that man who grabs Loki's back is Nathan Swenson ;)

So I've been getting professional acting training for about 6-7 months now and one thing I have learned is that nothing makes it in the movie by accident. The director has to approve it, the editor, the producer, up the whole food chain. This was not Tom Hiddleston sneezing and then them keeping it in the movie because it's funny. So this was put in on purpose. They WANTED you to know that Loki isn't okay. And a scene like this would get like what? idk 3-6 takes at a minimum, which means that they flimed this ON PURPOSE 3-6 times. Tom Hiddleston was instructed to do this ON PURPOSE. That guy who approaches Loki's back was told to do that ON PURPOSE. Loki was supposed to be shown to be a mess physically. Like. Then they go and KEEP doing this later, when Loki can't get into the car and can barely keep himself upright. Loki doesn't start to look "okay" until Germany and even then he's not doing amazing.

What's interesting to me, beyond the obvious implications toward bodily harm - torture! :) - is the timing. Loki immediately topples when Clint hands the Tesseract to Selvig. There's something about Clint doing that that seems to cause him physical pain. That could be a coincidence, and I bet it is because it's not brought up again in the movie that the Tesseract exchanging hands gives Loki physical pain, but it is interesting.

Another interesting point is that Clint looks away, Selvig doesn't care, but that sheild agent Immediately moves up to put his hand on Loki's back to support him. And Loki doesn't flinch. That always struck me as weird, right, because even people who don't have trauma flinch when someone touches their back and they weren't expecting it. And Loki clearly wasn't? So why didn't he twitch at least a little? Tom Hiddleston is too good of an actor for that to be a mistake.

So to me that means that Loki just... doesn't have feeling in his spine at that moment. Or he was in too much pain to even register it. Loki was clearly tortured with some type of heat. If you watch him in this scene he's displaying all the signs of heat exhaustion. So I kinda think that maybe Loki got burned so badly on his back before this happened that he just... doesn't feel anything anymore. It had to have been recent for walking to nearly send him toppling, but Loki's back is a source of issues for the entire movie.

That is why this scene is here from a directing perspective. to SET UP Loki's back problems. The extent of them are left vague, but I think when Tom Hiddleston and Joss Whedon sat down to talk about Loki for the Avengers, one of the things they must have agreed on was that Loki was not in good physical condition and they planned to show that THE ENTIRE MOVIE. I don't know if they talked about torture or Thanos, but they talked about SOMETHING.

But I just...idk. That guy grabs Loki's back to support him in an effort to help and it's just so interesting to me. Because how does the mind control WORK then? Selvig is obsessed with the Tesseract. He almost seems possessed by that rather than Loki. Clint goes completely silent and doesn't do anything except the mission. THIS GUY immediately comes to take care of Loki, and Loki himself is ruthlessly efficient with one goal in his mind. So it's interesting. Subtext! :D

So what do I think about this scene. I think that Loki was tortured and his back is giving out and I LOVE THIS SCENE BECAUSE IT IS SO DARK BUT TRYING NOT TO BE.

Thanos' immediate response to something not going his way is torture and he knows Loki. Knows him well enough to pick his brother out of a crowd in Infinity War and leave him alive until the end. Knows him well enough to make his death personal. Strangulation is a crime of passion. Thanos hurt Loki and he knew Loki, and the idea that Thanos made sure that Loki wouldn't see the torture coming - by doing it to his back/spine - is just an extra layer of awful. Thanos left Thor alive. On purpose. He could have killed him. He didn't.

That was Loki's punishment. Leaving Thor alone. Because Thanos knew that would hurt him the most.

But Thanos also chose to kill Loki, and in infintiny war, while hunting the stones, Thanos doesn't make any unnecessary bodies. Which to me, means that Thanos had to kill Loki because he saw Loki as a threat.

So anyway, somehow I'm talking about Loki and Thanos again, who are my favorite horrible duo and I love talking about them because their relationship is so so messed up. I wish that the Loki series had DONE something with Thanos and Loki, but they didn't. :/

But why Loki's back? Like Thanos started with Loki's head in the post-credits scene of Thor 1:

why did he move to Loki's back? Also the fact that Thanos was having Loki hunt down the Infinity Stones through astral projection and/or enchantment is just so messed up and I love it. Wish it had been explored because THIS ^^^ was the giant beast I wanted poked at in Loki season 1.

[findafight]

Kinda want to write a one-sided ronance post S4 au (within a fix it obvs) where the older teens start actually hanging out and Stobin (eventually + Vickie)confuse literally everyone. They greet each other with cheek kisses, call each other babe (or "Stevie Baby". Listen. Robin calls him bud or buddy or bub or bubba or babe and it's like why so many B's?? Argyle is vibing with it though and joins the bud train) and one time at two in the morning had a coordinated ramble about the names of the cats they will eventually get. (Sassafras, moonshine, and Garborator)

Nancy and Steve haven't really talked about anything, other than Steve saying "hey. I'm sorry if whatever I said weirded you out. I was definitely a bit delirious and Robin and Eddie AND Dustin were all making comments about winning you back or whatever which is stupid, you made it clear where you stood with me. Which wasn't with me. That's fine. and like. Okay yeah when we were together I'd daydream about you being beside me in the motorhome but thats-- it was a daydream. I was sort of thinking I was gonna die and. I wanted to share a little dream that made me happy. And then got everything confused in my head and made it weird and I'm sorry. what I'm trying to say is I'm sorry for being weird and making things uncomfortable. I'm over you. I loved you then, and you were my first real love, and maybe if things were different I could love you like that again but. But neither of us want that or the same things out of life. And we'd crash and burn again. Plus you and Jonathan are together which is a non-starter. Cannot believe I forgot that when it was happening. Jesus. So. Yeah. Sorry for being not a great friend and hitting on you in the Upside Down." And Nancy had nodded and told him not to worry about it. He had been sort of bleeding out and planning on going back into the upside down. They could both be normal about it.

Sometimes Nancy and Robin try to have "girl time" at Nancy's suggestion because they're the only girls in the older group (sometimes. But Robin is not going to let that slip out) but it's awkward without a buffer. Robin is too nervous and rambles and Nancy is too annoyed by it. But they do get on well in group settings, and Steve and Argyle are actually the keenest to smooth over any awkwardness.

Robin laughs more with the group, and grins at Steve and smirks at Eddie and has a sharp tongue Nancy can admire. She's more comfortable with Steve around, insisting he sit beside her or on the ground in front of her so she can play with his hair. (And Nancy is shocked the first time she sees it, because Steve was notoriously protective of his "best feature", but she'd asked and he'd hummed quietly as she takes her fingers through his hair and put tiny, lopsided braids in it.) It's nice to see Robin less jumpy, and wonders what it would take to see more of the side of her Nancy only sees when Steve's around. She just wants to get closer to Robin. Wants a friend.

And somehow, beyond Nancy's notice, Steve and Robin's friend Vickie slowly joins the group. She wasn't involved at all in the spring, but has been hanging around Family Video and a movie night or two often enough that when she settles more permanently in the group it isn't a very big surprise. Eddie and Argyle welcome her in with open arms, Jonathan is only his normal amount of weary of new people, and obviously Robin and Steve are excited for their friends to be friends.

But it just doesn't sit right with Nancy. She can't pinpoint why, it just doesn't. When she sees Robin and Vickie giggling together, or having some back and forth banter that seems to feed into both of them smiling, or Steve throwing his arm over her shoulder, or Vickie leaning into Robin's space as they talk. She always sits beside Robin, Steve on the other, with Eddie beside him. It's usually a tight fit for whatever couch they're on, but the four seem happy as clams to not have any personal space. Once Argyle decided to lay across all their laps, and they just...let him. Finangled themselves so everyone was mostly comfortable.

Nancy figures she is uncomfortable with it because she hasn't ever had a close friend since Barb, and was possibly hoping she could be close to Robin along those lines. So seeing her so close with the others and mildly uncomfortable around her hurt, and seeing her and Steve incorporate someone unversed in the Upside Down into their little trauma club also hurt. Because what did Vickie have that Nancy didn't? That made Steve and Robin and now Eddie stick to her like glue? That made them want her there when she didn't know anything about what they'd been through and could probably never understand?

What made Vickie Summers so special that she's taken what should have been Nancy's place beside her friends? Because that's what really bothered her. It wasn't that Vickie didn't know, it's that Nancy felt she took her place. That Nancy wanted to be where Vickie was, and she didn't know how to ask for it. Asking, trying to talk about how Steve and Robin had bonded so well after Starcourt while she ignored them and then how they bonded with and absorbed Eddie halfway into their bizarre dynamic after vecna, would feel too much like begging or admitting that she isn't quite sure how to make friends.

Nancy is jealous. Jealous that she isn't friends like Vickie and Eddie and Steve and Robin are. That she isn't the one making Robin smile and giggle so cutely. So. She tries harder. Tries to be the friend that Robin and Eddie and even Steve deserve. She tries not to be annoyed by Robin rambling (it really isn't that bad, just. Not relevant. She likes heading Robin's voice, but thinks she could really work on having a filter.), or the way Steve always asks clarifying questions when he should really have known better, or Eddie talking half in different character voices. She thinks it's getting better, her relationship with them. But, still, Vickie is always there, glued to Robin's side almost as much as Steve is, and that always annoys Nancy. Niggles at her brain, that she doesn't deserve to be there because she didn't know what Robin had lived through and fought. Nancy did.

Eventually, Nancy figures out that she wants more from Robin. Doesn't want to be a friend she smiles at occasionally, wants to be the reason she smiles all the time. And that's terrifying. Because Nancy had never considered liking girls, never thought liking girls was a thing she could do. It was something other women did, not Nancy. She liked boys and always had, but. But maybe she always liked girls...too. maybe it wasn't something she that was one or the other. Being different in a town like Hawkins puts a target on your back, being queer in a town like Hawkins even moreso.

She's leaving Hawkins in the fall. But she thinks she wants someone to come home to. She wants Robin to come home to. Robin and Steve seem to be okay with it, from what she can glean of some veiled comments they've made that she's only caught now she's looking for them. They've made some remarks around the kids that make it seem like they'd be safe to come to, no matter what. And sometimes, some of the comments Robin makes about actresses seem a little...well. admiring.

They probably, hopefully, wouldn't hate her for this. And now Nancy and Robin have a friendship, she thinks she can. It's early July, and Nancy is going to ask Robin out.

She gets her alone, bites her lip, and asks Robin in no uncertain terms to go out on a date with her. Robin stares, mouth agape.

"oh," she says.

Nancy smiles, a little. "Yeah. So. What do you say?"

Robin blinks, and takes a shuddering breath. "Oh my god. I. Nancy I'm really flattered but I'm no-i dont- uhg. I'm dating someone." she groans, rubbing her hands over her face.

And oh. Nancy read the situation wrong "oh. Steve. It's fine! You don't like girls, thats--thats totally fine! Id just, um. That is,-"

Robin waves her hands. "No, no! I'm not dating Steve! You clocked me correctly. Definitely gay! Don't worry about that! Hah."

Something in Nancy twists. "Oh?"

"yeah. Yep. Not only am I a lesbian in a small town, I'm a lesbian in a small town that somehow also has a girlfriend." Robin says the word dreamily. Like she still can't believe it. Nancy's brain fills with static. She was too late. Too caught up with how she missed so many chances in the past, that she missed her chance now.

But Robin keeps talking. "And, like. Even if I didn't, I don't think it would have worked between us anyways. Too different, y'know?"

"what?"

Robin gestures with her hands between them. "Well, like. I like being your friend. But, I mean, I wouldn't date you?"

"why not?"

Blinking, Robin tilts her head. "Because of Steve?"

Something bubbles hot in Nancy. "What the fuck does Steve have to do with wether or not we would date?"

"Nancy. Steve's my best friend." As though that explains anything.

"yes? And?"

Robin looks uncomfortable, shifting sideways. "listen, Nancy. You're a good friend. And I've just rejected you. Maybe we should just. Ah. Leave this? I'm really sorry. I'll give you some space, just find me when you're ready?"

"no. What do you mean that we couldn't date because Steve is your best friend? Why would that have any effect on how you date?"

"it doesn't! Not really! Just. Nancy, you broke his heart. His soft, squishy heart! You kinda sorta cheated on him-details very unclear-and then just. Moved on. Pretended like nothing happened. I couldn't do that to Steve. Dating a friend's ex is a bad move. Dating an ex that broke a friend's heart is just cruel." She sighs. Looks sad. As though she isn't the one rejecting Nancy and tearing her apart for how a relationship ended almost two years ago. What did that matter, now? "You're my friend, Nancy. I like you! But even if Steve has moved on, forgiven and forgotten, and if things were a bit different given his full support for us dating if that's what I wanted, I think I'll always remember how he-- how much it hurt him."

"oh"

"I'm. Nancy I'm really sorry. I know how scary it is to put yourself out there, especially like this. It's not fair. I'm just sorry. But. It was true. Steve's the most important person to me. I couldn't ever hurt him. Not like that. Not even if he said he was fine with it."

Nancy stands and walks away. She doesn't cry until she locks her bedroom door.

[redysetdare]

I think there's a genuine conversation to be had about how aro spaces have begun pushing QPRs in a similar way that amatonormativity pushes romantic relationships onto people but a majority of aros just refuse to engage in the discussion because they see it as an attack on QPRs or people saying QPRs are romantic relationships lite instead of actually looking at the fact it's critiquing how some Aros have begun pushing it almost like an alternative to romance and something all Aro's want.

No one is saying QPRs are bad but rather that there is too much push that the idea of a QPR will fix people's problems. "oh you're lonely? just find a QPR!" "You dont have to be in a romantic relationship you can be in a QPR!" "QPR is MORE than friendship" etc etc.

There's a genuine critique here of QPRs being used to continue to push amatonormativity by again assuming that every aro wants a partner - even if not romantic - and I think we can have a genuine conversation about this rather than going at each other throats over a fake argument of "QPRs bad"

[the-yearning-astronaut]

Almost three years ago now I wrote a post about ship tagging and needing to update our tagging conventions to include a third symbol. And I really really think this is a change that should be made. That needs to be made.

We use / to indicate romantic and/or sexual relationships.

We use & to indicate platonic and familial relationships.

But we don't have any shorthand to tag a ship as queerplatonic or any other relationship type that doesn't fit neatly into the original / and & categories.

Anyone that's been following me since 2020 has likely seen me use ship tags that include a +. That + is there to indicate that I ship these characters in a way that is different than what's traditionally expected when a tag uses / or &. The ship is neither of those, it is both of those, it is something else entirely.

Having a third tag type would make it so much easier and more inclusive for those writing non traditional relationships. No more having to tag with both A/B and A&B (which can lead to confusion and accusations of misleading tagging etc). No more feeling confusion and guilt and trepidation when trying to tag something, knowing someone looking for / wouldn't necessarily consider it as /, while also knowing someone looking for & would potentially be appalled. No more having to include extra qualifiers and explanations in the tags and author's notes to avoid misunderstandings. We need something that breaks the relationship categorical binary of romantic/sexual vs not romantic/sexual.

Idk I just feel like there are so many types of relationships that just can't be defined as one category or the other. The addition of ship tags using + could do a lot to remedy that.

[strangertheories]

I really think the show should've touched on the trauma that seeing his dead little brother's body had on Jonathan.

Whilst he found out Will was alive later, he genuinely believed his little brother was gone forever. I cannot believe that wouldn't have deeply impacted Jonathan, especially considering his protection of Will is one of his core character traits.

Image cred: @will80sbyers

[weavebitch]

...gortash could probably fix karlach's engine. fuck.

[thatturtleleon]

kind of loving megop rn...

i've literally never considered liking this ship but there's so many amazing artists and writers on here that've convinced me to love it

[bluejayblueskies]

on the one hand i really enjoy romantic john/arthur esp. in nuanced ways where it explores like. what does romantic love mean for john, who maybe hasn't experienced it before? what does a romantic relationship look like when the two people involved share one body? what are arthur's feelings about being with another man, and how does the time period he grew up in influence those feelings?

but on the other hand, the fact that canonically john and arthur aren't in a romantic relationship and won't be in the future is very important to me (and i know a lot of other people as well). a large part of it is of course that as an aromantic person, it's so refreshing to have the main pairing in a piece of media be both a) extremely close and intimate with each other, as well as loving one another and b) not involved romantically. body sharing aside, relationships like john and arthur's are rare in media, and it's really nice to know that it's going to stay that way and isn't going to 'take the next step' [derogatory] into a romantic relationship at some future date.

even from a non-aromantic perspective (because i'm not trying to say that either john or arthur are canonically aromantic, just that it's nice that i can headcanon them that way and it fits into the canon narrative), a platonic relationship (and esp. one between two men!) being the main focus of malevolent is a choice i'm really glad harlan made. i'm not going to delve too much into this because his explanation is better than mine, but essentially, two male characters being vulnerable with one another and putting their trust in one another while not being romantically involved is something i definitely think we could use more of in media as a whole.

finally, i wanted to talk about the 'and yet you love him' 'i suppose so' dialogue between arthur and the king in ep. 20. (i think about this exchange a lot y'all--one of the best moments of the podcast imo.) 'love' is such a romantically charged word, especially when used in situations similar to this in other pieces of media. for complete transparency, the very first time i heard this scene, i thought it was meant to be romantic love because that's the kind of weight i ascribed to 'love confessions' based on the precedent set by other media and by real life as well. (i consider this moment a love confession because it's the first time arthur uses that word to describe his feelings toward john, even if he himself doesn't actually say it--literally a confession of love.)

finding out that it wasn't was a 'huh, interesting' moment for me, because i just hadn't really seen anything like it before! there was no precedent! hearing a love confession used in a context like this, where arthur's love for john is narratively important and something that can be used against him but is also platonic, not romantic, just ... it blows me away every single time i relisten to this episode.

in conclusion: i love them <3