#and i have FEELINGS about Dean

[lover-of-mine]

Anyway, Dean was emotionally abusive and the only reason he never hit Rory was because the script didn't say he would because any guy that hits something so he won't hit you will eventually hit you and Rory spends all of her relationships reacting based on Dean's reactions.

[wigglebox]

Agent…

[sadgirlbadpoems]

I think that the Supernatural fandom doesn't give Dean Winchester enough credit or hold John Winchester accountable nearly enough. I would argue that John's abuse (mental, emotional and physical) and its constant effect in both boys lives is constantly downplayed by a majority of the fanbase.

The parentification of an elder sibling has been proven to cause lasting issues and we see this throughout the show; when Dean is overly protective of Sam, treats Sam's life as more valuable than his own, can't picture a life where he's not needed, and his dismissal of Sam as a valuable contributor in an equal partnership. Dean is often criticized both in canon and by fans for being overbearing and codependent on Sam. This is a direct result of John Winchester's inability to parent.

Dean's emotional repression is shown to be caused by his father's militant behaviors and approach to parenting. Dean doesn't see his feelings as valid or important and thus turns to repression or unhealthy coping mechanisms as illustrated throughout the show. His alcoholism, violent outbursts, and unhealthy relationship with sex are all coping mechanisms he uses not to feel.

Through flashbacks (and some dialog) the viewer is show that Sam is more resentful towards John than Dean, and that he even holds resentment towards Dean for being the "perfect little soldier".

That's part of the reason Castiel is such a great foil for Dean, both are loyal to absent fathers' but while Dean was born with free will he follows his father's orders unwaveringly until sometime after his death, Cass a being created without free will breaks free of the command of his father and from his father's mission, becoming for all intents and purposes a Prodigal son like Sam.

Dean's adherence to his father's word is, much like Sam's rebellion a response to continued and repeated abuse, neither brother is perfect. And their father was the furthest thing from it.

[panicroomsammy]

Okay while I’m thinking about John and that one post that’s been going around about “‘John taught Dean that boys don’t cry’ is incorrect” here’s my two cents: John did teach Dean to emotionally behave the way he does. Not on purpose and not by example, but accidentally through parentification. Parents of parentified children can themselves be in tune with their emotions and can want their children to be emotionally open, but through the process of emotionally leaning on their children and relying on them to fulfill their emotional needs such children learn to repress their own emotions. I am currently reading John’s journal and lines like this

are glaring examples of parentification. John isn’t doing it on purpose though! He just needs someone to talk to and the only person to talk to his his eight year old son. He may even think that by talking to Dean about his feelings he is teaching Dean that that’s what people do, but talking to kids like this can do the opposite. Dean learns that he has to be there for his dad emotionally, and by default that means that his own emotions are put on the back burner. The way that Dean prioritizes John’s emotions over his own is exemplified here:

On the anniversary of his mother’s death six year old Dean saw that his father was upset and went to comfort him instead of the other way around. He’s being taught to ignore his own emotions not out of malice or gender roles but because his parent is depending on him so out of necessity he puts his feelings aside.

What this translates to as an adult is what we see in the show in Dean’s reluctance to talk about how he feels with Sam who is constantly trying to get Dean to talk to him. After hell Dean doesn’t want to tell Sam about it and burden him with knowing what Dean did. Where I’m at currently in season 10 Dean doesn’t want to acknowledge that the mark may still be affecting him because that’s his problem. Anything that Dean considers to be his own problem he refuses to talk about because he defaults to taking care of other people’s emotional needs first. He didn’t learn that sometimes other people’s emotional needs are taking care of his emotional needs the way that a non-parentified child would learn from a parent who fulfills their emotional needs by taking care of their child.

John isn’t evil. He isn’t some paragon of toxic masculinity. He was just a human man in a bad situation who made mistakes that influenced his children into adulthood.

[franklespine]

You know I think you guys might be on to something when you call Sam woman coded cause - genuinely - how do you, as writers of a show, be so misogynistic as to not include any female characters asides from damsels and hookups (specifically referring to the early seasons), and yet need so desperately to have a outlet for macho masculine patriarchy power dynamics that you have an adult male character experience misogyny?? How do you mess up that badly??

It's like, although they thought that putting female characters in the narrative other than to exist as sexy distressed lamps wouldn't appeal to the true blooded 2000s American audience. But yet it was completely necessary for there to be a bottom rung in the masculinity pyramid because - well how else can we as a society function!!

Anyway, ik reading too far into things is my special talent, and in most circumstances all of this stuff is just a joke in the show but wow they really had Dean poking fun of any of Sam's characteristics that don't fit into this Hyper True Blooded American Masculinity ideology as a butt of jokes for 15 years. The fact that he has longer hair, that he cares about his hair, that he's tidy, that he likes salads and isn't a big meat eater, that he's sympathetic, that he's a bitch. And of course these are just silly little jabs that Dean makes in sibling-like fashion but like wow 15 years. Damn.

And of course it's not only this that leads to the rather odd interpretation of a woman-coded Sam, but also the way he is treated directly by the narrative. Like, for example, being the family's possession, rather than an equal member. Dean has seen it as his job to look out for his little brother since he pulled him from the fire and the wellbeing of this infant was thrown onto his shoulders at age 4, and this has created a lot of ricocheting effects on both of them. This isn't to say that Dean doesn't love, care, respect, and value Sam, but it does mean that sometimes he treats him like a possession rather than a person. He makes a lot of crazy decisions in the show that he justifies as being for Sam's own good, even if it goes directly against Sam's wishes. After Sam leaves a note to Dean telling him he's going out for a bit to handle a case, Dean weasels his way in, not trusting him to handle it due to the mental issues Sam is facing at the time, and kills Amy, despite Sam begging him not to. Even though Dean knows Sam would never consent to an angle possessing him, he tricks him into it anyway. He does these things, and many others because he believes that he is acting in Sam's best interests, totally disregarding the fact that Sam has capacity to make judgements and handle the consequences himself, even going so far as to oppose what he directly knows or Sam tells him he wants.

Then of course there is the fact that the fear integral to his character - a loss of autonomy (bodily autonomy, but also autonomy to make his own decisions about his future, to be good, to be pure and faithful), is an explicitly feminine one. Then there is the strong subtext in his story of SA themes, I think in s4 a demon even refers to Sam as a 'whore' or that he's 'whoring it up' (with respect to Ruby), and the interesting prevalent idea of Sam questioning or going against the ideals/ideology of the masculine figure head (which would be Dean I guess) and getting punished for it. Sam suggests that maybe they take a more humanitarian approach with the cow blood drinking vampires in s2 and Dean punches him, Sam tries to get him to talk about their Dad and Dean punches him, Sam tries to get him to talk about Lisa and Ben and Dean punches him, Sam gets caught simply using his abilities and Dean punches him - twice. I think you get the picture.

Anyway. This post comes off as rather critical of Dean, which wasn't really my intention. It's more sort of a broader criticism of the rampant sexism that had its part in shaping the show - being one to come out of the early 2000s. Ideas such as this - you could really go on for hours as its fascinating how ideological frameworks are presented certain ways in media - and the way masculine and feminine social dynamics, to list only one, is presented in supernatural is definitely a can of worms.

[plushypluto]

I was doodling and then it got a bit out of hand…

[lambmotifz]

“dean isn’t a top” well but sam is a bratty bottom and he wants to get fucked on the hood of the impala so bad it makes him look stupid and dean doesn’t know how to say “no” to his baby brother

[butch--dean]

Our whole lives, you've been gone! ... How about for once, you just try and be a mom?

[high-voltage-rat]

man okay so I used to play mechquest and dragonfable back in like, 2008 when I was a kid with very little patience to follow a storyline. coming back as an adult and finishing mechquest has absolutely slapped me silly with how deep and serious the story is in between all the absurdist humour. I have. so many emotions over the whole storyline, and especially so many thoughts about the unique form of tragedy that is The Reset.

You save the world but it's not the world anymore. You and your friends survive but you don't know each other anymore- have nothing left of the lives you fought to keep. You 'save' everything but it's still all gone. Everything you knew and loved, gone, and you don't even know what you've lost. You can't even keep the memory of what you had- and that's almost kinder compared to being one of the 3ish people who DO remember... and have to live around everyone else who doesn't, knowing their closest friends look at them and see a stranger, and that they may as well be because they aren't that person they remember being.

And to top it all off, that terrible sacrifice doesn't even end it. you're still left fighting impossible and devastating wars over and over. It's the tragedy of doomed time loops with extra layers of devastating all over the place. The GEARS University students being forced to become soldiers because they're all that's left to protect their homeworld. The horrors of the Shadowscythe virus taking over friends and loved ones you may be forced to put down to save yourself. The town of Falconreach burning over and over because no matter how hard they fight, it's never enough. The people like Sha'rae who sacrifice themselves to try and prevent tyrrany from seizing power, only for it to be utterly useless.

Anyway the brainrot is severe and especially dangerous since I'm coming into exam season and all my hyperfixated brain wants to do is chew on glass about these games.

[hauntedpearl]

I'm such a big fan of immortal cas endgame but he's not an angel, not fully, not the way he was when he came to earth, the righteous man his charge, when the apocalypse was still the most terrifying thing in the world and there was hope of keeping it at bay. but he's not human either, because he can never be, because the body that is his — his — is still not really his. the soul he's grown can't fit in it quite right, not the way a human's is supposed to, anyway.

where does this leave him? somewhere between heaven and earth. with his clipped wings, and his crooked, cracked halo. he'll never quite be human, but he's human enough for his little family of misfits. and he's never going to be an all-powerful angel again, but he's angel enough to teach his son the things he needs to learn, to heal the hurt when he is able, to cross the boundary into heaven when he's called. it's an odd, uncomfortable, terrifying, wonderful place to be. and maybe it's not exactly what he wants, and maybe he longs for his wings and his grace and the power of heaven at the tips of his fingers sometimes, but it's enough, he thinks, considering. he's happy. isn't that kind of the whole point?

[angelsdean]

dean is always being asked to kill his children but he can never do it. his children are made into monsters and he can never kill them. not sam not emma not jack. he was made to be a weapon but he won’t ever turn it on his kids. 

[wigglebox]

Suptober [Extended] - Day 17 || Lighting

[hellhoundlair]

general question for anyone whod care to answer: was there a moment that supernatural really clicked for you? for me i was enjoying it as a casual viewer for the first season but by the end of Heart it clicked and i went from enjoyment to obsessed

[backroadboy]

we should've gotten more scenes between dean and claire btw. it's the chaotic duo we all deserve and need.

[swordofsun]

One of the things I have discussed ad nauseum with @ilarual and @mybrainproblems is how Dean doesn't give John a denouncement in Lebanon because he doesn't need to give John a denouncement. He's already done it. Just because John wasn't there doesn't mean it didn't serve the same purpose for Dean.

Yes, I'm talking about 03x10 Dream A Little Dream Of Me:

DREAM DEAN

Dad knew who you really were. A good soldier and nothing else. Daddy's blunt little instrument.

(angry)

Your own father didn't care whether you lived or died. Why should you?

DEAN

(angry)

Son of a bitch!

DEAN pushes DREAM DEAN hard, knocking him into the wall above the desk.

DEAN

(screaming angrily)

My father was an obsessed bastard!

DREAM DEAN tries to get up and DEAN kicks him down on the desk again. DEAN holds the weapon as a bat and hits DREAM DEAN once and then pins him to the wall with it.

DEAN

All that crap he dumped on me, about protecting Sam! That was his crap. He's the one who couldn't protect his family. He-

DEAN steps back and swings the weapon again, hitting DREAM DEAN twice.

DEAN

He's the one who let Mom die.

DEAN pins DREAM DEAN again.

DEAN

– who wasn't there for Sam. I always was! He wasn't fair! I didn't deserve what he put on me.

He backs away from DREAM DEAN.

DEAN

And I don't deserve to go to Hell!*

The catharsis is admitting that John was unfair and expected too much. It doesn't actually need to be said to John. This is stuff Dean needs to acknowledge in himself. To accept and move forward with that knowledge. It's finally verbalized this that allows him to admit to Sam that he doesn't want to die and he doesn't want to go to hell.

But I also realized today that Dean does also get that yelling at John moment. He just doesn't get to remember it until 04x15 when Tessa gives him back his memories of 02x01.

JOHN is sitting by DEAN'S bed; !DEAN STANDS NEARBY.

!DEAN

Come on, Dad. You've gotta help me. I've gotta get better, I've gotta get back in there. I mean, you haven't called a soul for help. You haven't even tried. Aren't you going to do anything? Aren't you even going to say anything?

(he starts walking around the bed)

I've done everything you have ever asked me. Everything. I have given everything I've ever had. And you're just going to sit there and you're going to watch me die? I mean, what the hell kind of father are you?**

And, again, it doesn't matter that John doesn't hear any of this. Because it's not for John. It's for Dean. Dean's the one who needed to acknowledge everything John did to him. And he does. He just doesn't have the need to then talk about it with other people or waste the short period of time he has with John in Lebanon hashing over stuff he's already dealt with.

He even gets an acknowledgment from John that he was wrong to raise Dean the way he did. He just followed it up by giving Dean one last shitty order. But he still does say:

JOHN

You know, when you were a kid, I'd come home from a hunt, and after what I'd seen, I'd be, I'd be wrecked. And you, you'd come up to me and you, you'd put your hand on my shoulder and you'd look me in the eye and you'd... You'd say "It's okay, Dad"

(pauses)

Dean, I'm sorry.

DEAN

What?

JOHN

You shouldn't have had to say that to me, I should have been saying that to you. You know, I put, I put too much on your shoulders, I made you grow up too fast. You took care of Sammy, you took care of me. You did that, and you didn't complain, not once. I just want you to know that I am so proud of you.**

By the time Lebanon comes around he's dealt with all this crap. He's had his moments of yelling about the unfairness of it all. He's dealt with his issues around Mary making the deal in the first place and not leaving them any warnings or explanations.***

Lebanon is about healing an old hurt that's been festering since he was 4 years old. It's giving him one last happy family meal. Why would he ruin that by yelling at John about things he's already dealt with?

SAM

How did this happen?

DEAN

I-I-I don’t know. You said that the – the pearl gives you what your heart desires, right? So, my heart desired – I – I’ve wanted this, man. I’ve – I’ve wanted this since I was 4 years old.

SAM

Okay, I know, and I-I-I-I love this, too, Dean. I do, honestly, but – but messing with time –

DEAN

No, no, no, Sam.

SAM

You know how this ends. Things change.

DEAN

Yeah, great – we got our family back together. I’ll take that change.

SAM

That’s not what I mean.

DEAN

Stop. Just stop, okay? Look, can – can we just have one family dinner? Just one? Us – all of us together. That’s all I want. Can you just give me that?****

I think sometimes people get so focused on what they'd like to see that they forget what would actually make sense for the characters. Dean's had his denouncements and Lebanon is about reaffirming his happiness on where he is now.

JOHN

No, son. My fight. It was supposed to end with me, with Yellow Eyes. But now you – you are a grown man, and I am incredibly proud of you. I guess that I had hoped, eventually, you would… get yourself a normal life, a peaceful life, a family.

[DEAN nods. He smiles.]

DEAN

I have a family.****

*03x10 Transcript

**02x01 Transcript

***See 12x22 Who We Are

****14x13 Transcript

[overrated-sheep]

Crying over thinking about Sam crying over thinking about Dean’s low self esteem

Imagining a scene where Sam and Dean get drunk and Dean starts laying into himself, maybe in a joking manner at first but Sam just can’t stand to hear it. How dare ANYONE talk that way about HIS brother! It’s an affront to his very existence. How could anyone not see that Dean was all the goodness in the world balled up into one man? HIS man!

Can imagine Sam yelling at him to shut up, to stop telling lies. Sobbing in anger at how the world made his brother believe he was anything but good. So maybe he splits his brother’s lip to shut him up. And then soothes it with a kiss. Sucking at it like he’s trying to sip whatever poison Dean was inflicted with because he knew that he was immune.