#and just. the way the queerbaiting was so bad and then they backtracked and was like NO IT WAS DREAMWORKS CENSORING US

[oflgtfol]

in hindsight the way voltron basically laid down and rolled over and imploded was fucking hilarious. what a batshit experience that show was

[starkjoy]

it’s insane how disappointed i am with this season… like i don’t even know how to deal w this lmao. i just feel like i’m being gaslit into believing all the stuff i previously thought about tomshiv’s dynamic and even tomgreg’s (in terms of the nero/sporus subtext) isn’t true. it’s a weird decision on the writers’ parts.

the whiplash is so odd to me that i can’t help but wonder if they’re intentionally misleading us for some late-in-the-game twist. that’s probably delusion though—simplest explanation is that they changed their mind or it’s shitty writing. seems to be a trend with hbo final seasons. let’s see how it all ends before we make any final decisions, though.

unlike failed internet darling mlm ships of the past, tomgreg isn’t a case of fandom creating a narrative and setting themselves up for disappointment—the writers intentionally implanted homoeroticism into their plotline. the actors knowingly played around with it. jesse literally called them homoerotic a few weeks ago. it’s really sad to think succession may fall prey to every other queerbait-adjacent (adjacent for now since the season isn’t over) curse, leaning into the queer undertones until they’ve written themselves into a gay corner with the internet convinced something is gonna happen, only to backtrack and pretend the vibes were never there at all. it’s too early to say if that’s the case here, but it certainly feels that way at the moment. i mean, what else are we supposed to think when the writers go from nero and sporus gay marriage as the through line of season 3, to disgusting brothers hetero sex tour comedic relief background noise with tomshiv redemption front end center? am I supposed to be enjoying this?

all that being said, on a positive note im glad we’ve seen how much closer tom and greg have gotten as partners, and that they’re scheming together and on the same page. i’m glad they’ve had at least one interaction each episode. i’m glad greg seems much more into tom than previous seasons, quelling any unrequited friendship accusations. i’m glad we got insane homoerotic undertones in episode 1, even if they’ve dropped off since then. but where we’re sadly lacking is depth—what was once the hallmark of tomgreg’s deeper connection in contrast to tomshiv’s emotional constipation. now greg makes sexual quips while tom rolls his eyes…end scene. and again. it was funny and cute at first, but now it’s getting boring. don’t they deserve a more interesting arc in the final season after years of build up? why are we subject to tomshiv rehashing the same shit we’ve seen for 3 seasons instead?

also, one of the most compelling arcs of season 3 was tom’s vengeance, especially because we saw it play out from his perspective. outside of his plane convo with greg, tom’s pov has all but been erased. even the tomshiv moments are from the lens of shiv’s experience. and as much as we may sympathize with shiv’s heartbreak over his betrayal and her dad’s death, it feels almost wrong that the show is trying to make me feel bad for her? we saw how awful she was to tom for three seasons, we saw from tom’s perspective how much she hurt him. i don’t feel bad for shiv on the tom front at all, the fact that she kept his baby feels wildly out of character, and frankly it’s a little insulting the amount of time the final season is spending trying to convince the audience otherwise.

hey, maybe my feelings will change in a few days. maybe the final episodes will change all of our minds. i’ll always have some hope for tomgreg, but right now it’s not looking promising given the treatment they’ve received so far. anyone with any positivity to share hit me up because I could use it!!

[daisybrained]

I really try not to think too much about the confession scene if I’m being honest. I only watched it the one time and I’ve never gone back to it to rewatch. It’s such a confusing thing for me. I was excited to hear him say he loved her, like I knew it was coming, but then when it happened it felt So. Off. It just wasn’t quite right, somehow. And I couldn’t tell if it was Intentionally Weird or if it was the acting or the writing or what. Like… why was Mike not more emotional? I know it’s not because Finn has become a bad actor overnight or whatever people were saying, that’s insane. If they’d wanted him more emotional, they would have had him do it that way and used those takes instead. It can’t be that he just can’t cry, because he literally is crying five minutes later when he’s begging her to wake up.

And the way it’s written is off too, somehow, and again I don’t know if it’s intentional or not! It’s like, half love confession, half pep talk, which I kind of get because she needs to Fight! or whatever (and oh my god I cringe just thinking about that bit) but it just felt so. Kind of like how milk tastes right before it goes off. And other people have mentioned the framing and blocking too, like having Will be Right There and even cutting to reaction shots of him and Jonathan at one point is such an odd choice if it’s meant to be a romantic moment between Mike and El. That’s not something I thought of while watching it, but it’s one of those “you didn’t notice it, but your brain did” things where you notice that something’s off in the back of your mind and it unsettles you, but you can’t pinpoint what has unsettled you until someone points it out later. (Kind of like Will’s dark possessed eyes in s2.)

And talking about the day they found her and actually cutting to the flashback? The juxtaposition of what he’s saying and what is happening on screen is so WEIRD! He is clearly not falling in love with her at first sight in the flashback, we can see his confused apprehensive look with our own eyeballs, but that is what he’s telling us happened! I know some people think the juxtaposition is intentional, and that may be the case, but why would they have him say it only to backtrack and go “nevermind that was bullshit” in the next season? Why would they have such a big climactic moment intentionally fall flat! I don’t understand!

I dunno. It’s weird. Before volume 2, I had no real inkling that byler would ever become canon; I just wasn’t thinking that far ahead. I was invested in Mike and El’s relationship. Byler felt absurd to me on a canon level (enjoyable in fic but not realistic), and I know people are annoyed by this, but it was because of how I’ve seen close relationships between two men handled terribly onscreen before. I’ve been in many fandoms with clear, calculated queerbaiting and every time, the fandom thinks, this one will be different. This will be the one that transcends. And it just never is. It’s like Lucy with the football. That’s irritating to hear, I know, I’m not trying to harsh anyone’s vibe; this one is fundamentally different because Will is explicitly in love with Mike, but for me personally, that just confuses the issue more than clarifying it like it does for some people.

I know I’m just rehashing stuff that people have already dissected and explained and theorized about, I’m just trying to get all my thoughts about the confession in particular into words and why I’m still so uncomfortable with it and confused by it.

[holycafe]

Everything you need to know about Chad’s fan interactions today - the good and the bad

I’m starting things off by saying that he obviously knew about the deancas wedding because we have all seen the ‘you did not get the memo’ reply from a few days ago, so his excuses and attempts to backtrack on that now are obviously fabricated. I have seen some people asking his for clarification on that tweet but I haven’t seen him responding to those as of yet (he probably won’t ever respond to those because he knows it’ll make him look bad. It goes directly against his suggestions that the fans were reading into something that wasn’t there).

But I genuinely don’t think he meant to hurt people’s feelings with the wedding-denialist comments. When people were expressing that they felt hurt by this, he did try to smooth things over, such as below:

Just to be clear, he left a fair amount of replies to different fans which were all very similar to this one. They’re carefully worded b/c he clearly doesn’t want to still be associated with the wedding anymore. He was using it for clout before, and I guess he thought that he’d be able to deny it now that the day itself was over without any backlash - obviously he was wrong there. He keeps repeating the whole our truth / your truth thing in his replies because he wants to distance himself from it.

After a while he gets fed up with everyone. I’ve not gone through all the tweets on his page b/c I don’t want to. He was being harassed, but I was surprised to find most people were civil and just sending him articles about queerbaiting and trying to tell him their stories about why his comment hurt. There were some people being rude, of course, but I think his biggest annoyance was just from getting flooded with destiel articles. To be clear here - if you’ve seen a screenshot of his tweet telling people how to deal with online bullying... That isn’t actually to do with himself and instead seems to have been in response to a heller who told him people had been receiving death threats for taking part in the wedding. So props there for trying to help in what way he could.

In the end, he apologised.

However, I HATE his apology because its one of those classic ‘sorry that you misunderstood me and got your feelings hurt’ blame-shifter apologies. He’s not actually apologising for what he’s done or said, but instead has suggested again that it is all in our heads.

So, take from this what you will. Personally, I still don’t like him, but it’s not as bad as I originally thought (from either sides of the arguments)

[inevitably-johnlocked]

The Video

Alrighty, so as promised, I listened-slash-watched-slash-backtracked the video over making and eating dinner, with a break in between to take a phone call from my sister, so I may have missed and misunderstood/misheard a few things and may need another rewatch to fix any presumptions I make in this mini (?)-review.

Two things I do need to correct from my last post:

One is that I actually was sent the video to pre-watch before it was posted; I found it in my emails two days later but because I was swamped with day job stuff (as in I was working until 11 PM both days, and I didn’t even sit down until 4 on Saturday), and my fandom email is NOT a primary address so it’s not hooked up to my main Mail server on my MacBook (limited space), I hadn’t checked my emails since Thursday afternoon. So yeah, technically I should’ve known it was out, so apologies: technically I knew it was coming out; my sorry arse just didn’t check my emails.

Second, is that meta I did send her did get referenced and used; some of it word for word (like the discussion about the difference between Johnlockers and TJLC) so meta was read, my bad on assuming it wasn’t before watching.

C’est ça on that front.

A few things that ruffled my feathers and maybe I misheard, but I’ll mention them as I remember it:

I did find it slightly bothersome that the assumption was that Johnlockers that we were a bunch of teenagers (we weren’t – most of the people I talked to were in their 20′s and 30′s and many were academics of varying sorts). SZ was younger than many of us in our little corner of the fandom, I think, and it was filled with amazing meta and university-level papers on queer history, ACD canon history, subtextual writing and literature.  EDIT: I did skim back over to a bit of the beginning since I missed it over making dinner, and I guess a lot of the people who contacted SZ were teens at the time of the airdate, so again, my little bubble and all that and apologies for assuming. :P

This is a totally biased view and probably indicative of how deep down the rabbit hole I was: A bit annoyed at the implication in our belief that Mofftiss weren’t trying to deliberately imply the Gay Sherlock / BiJohn thing especially paying special attention to it during Q&As and meet and greets and interviews; That the cues weren’t there. Though she did point out the queerbaiting aspect of it. I don’t know. Maybe I misunderstood since I was stuffing my gob with pasta and wishing I had a cheesecake.

I think SZ should’ve worded her Twitter callout post a LOT better, because the cons were only mentioned for about 10 minutes, and in only in relation to the drama. She did praise the cons as a positive experience for people, so I’ll give her that.

The Twitter stuff pre-vid-posting still rubs me the wrong way.

Still feel that selling the shirts is tasteless. Mug is cute, though.

Things I did find interesting / good / stuff I didn’t know:

I know I’m a minority in this regard, especially since I am a fence sitter, but I feel... relieved? sorry I can’t think of the word... that SZ essentially did accuse Mofftiss of queerbaiting by the end of it – that it’s not just us who see it. I’ve always said without an S5, it IS queerbaiting, and given that S5 probably won’t happen anytime soon... well. Like I’ve said in the past, I hold out a glimmer of hope. Not holding my breath though.

The mentions of some of the fandom theories and speculations were done tastefully, light jesting but not mocking them.

The discussion section about AA / Mary... Yikes. I forgot it got THAT bad.... I guess because I was always in the “Mary’s a kickass villain” camp so I was blissfully ignorant about that stuff until a few years later. 

The ace stuff, 100% true, and I’m glad it was brought up.

The term “Ragnalock” got a chuckle out of me, will admit that. First time I’ve heard of it.

I had no idea the ARG theory was anything more than thelostspecial website. Somehow I missed that whole thing about it being part of the series itself.

And, a lot of things, in hindsight: just an overall, “yeah. :|”

And some additional notes I can’t really classify one way or another:

Cringing at MYSELF because of some of the post-S4 theories that, looking back: oof. Apple Tree Yard specifically. 

AND cringing at myself because I know I perpetuated a lot of the “IT WILL HAPPEN” in my corner of the fandom pre-S4 because I wanted people to be excited for a new season. For that I am very sorry to everyone who were hurt by my belief. S4 was a brick wall and I hit it hard, thought I do enjoy theorizing about how fake it was. It’s the only way to cope for me, LOL.

Ooof the drama stuff, a lot of it I didn’t know the entire deets about, only about the PPG being involved. I tried to stay out of it when I could and focused mainly on meta writing, my own healing processes, and making people feel welcome. It’s what a few bigger bloggers did for me when I joined by interacting with my posts and offering their kindness, and I wanted to return the favour. Inevitable it had to be covered, but yeah, dark times.

LOOOOOOOL the critique about TFP. Literally stuff that we’ve talked about in our “something’s fucky” tag. 

And to address the elephant in the room: Yes, I DID give SZ meta, but it was the link to fandom meta that is essentially on the header of my blog on desktop, just as I do with anyone interested in the fandom.

Overall, it was a thought provoking vid, a bit of a nostalgia hit to be honest. I thought that it was a good video, interesting in that strange way where you relive strange moments of your past. I feel it was a fair analysis of the fandom, but please, please remember: I can’t speak for those directly involved in the events mentioned, because I WAS NOT THERE. Not my place to disregard their feelings if they have a different opinion than I. 

That said, I think it’s worth a watch if only to see what the fandom WAS. But it’s informative and respectful, I think. Though, I think she could’ve left out the bit at the end just before the credits.

And finally: to anyone who are coming here from the vid: I have been here since S3, joined because of LSiT, and later I wrote villain Mary meta and TAB meta. These days, I primarily have focussed my attentions on curating content, offering my advice on stuff, introducing newbies to the series, and trying to spread positivity, all peppered in with the random theory from time to time, and trying to atone for my... “enthusiasm”?... in the past. I like promoting community and open discussion from all viewpoints, as long as it remains respectful. So yeah, I do have some meta you can check out, just let me know what you’re looking for, and I do lots of fic recs, so if you’re looking for something, hit me up.

Cheers, all. I’m going to bed. 

[theexecutionerssong]

I want to ask you as spn expert hdbfbdj i heard that destiel made creators/actors uncomfortable and they banned mention of it at the cons? And made anlotbof writing decision to keep dean and cas characters from each other in the show? So how do you think what changed and why the decided to make deancas canon (bad as it is but canon) in almost last episode when they could just not do it jrbfkf

Hi! Oh damn I hope you’re ready for a long ass answer because I have 13 years worth of memories to answer this question dfghjklm

So, your first question, when you say creators, you have to keep in mind that the original showrunner stepped down years ago and since then, there’s been several showrunners who each had a different view on where they wanted to take the story, which explains the disparities in writing quality from one season to another, in my opinion. Of course the orginal showrunner is still around and would chime in from time to time but he went on on working on other shows (which flopped, besides The Boys, tbh), and we definitely didn’t see it that way in 2005.

Then comes the writers team, that has also seen many changes over the years. I truly believe some left because they wouldn’t make Destiel happen, among other things like the treatment/lack of representation of female and POC characters. Robbie Thompson definitely left because they killed Charlie in the most horrifying way, and Charlie was his baby, and he got better opportunities elsewhere. I remember over 7 years ago when Bo Berens (the writer of last night episode) joined the team, my whole dash was full of people screaming because holy shit the new SPN writer is gay!!! and wouldn’t that change things??? Well it did. He wrote, along with Robbie Thompson, some of the most explicit Destiel episodes that they could get away with. I don’t believe this was ever queerbaiting, not from them, and I think they took advatange of the other writers just not seeing it, or not wanting to see it.

For a very long time, the showrunners and writers were kind of oblivious to the shipping, they didn’t take it seriously because it wasn’t how they had thought it could be interpreted. As time went on and the shipping only grew and as the cast and crew actually started to see what we were seeing in their own damn writing and acting, they started to be more aware and careful around it. Some were downward enjoying putting down fans, like fucking Guy Norman Bee gloating on Twitter and engaging with fans over it. A mess. He left 5 years ago that one, good riddance. It was also the time when actual canon queer ships would appear on TV - keep in mind that in 2010-12, Destiel was as explicit as it could get. We had nothing else, so of course we would latch onto that. But we started getting more and more actual explicit representation with Shameless, Shadowhunters, Eyewitness, Skam, HTGAWM, Orphan Black, etc around 2013, and shipping Destiel got very frustrating. 

The actors have always been another story, and I saw a lot of comments being made today towards Jensen so I’m gonna copy paste my answer to an ask I got last year : “I think he was just extremely “protective” of Dean and would get actually mad and shut down every conversation about Destiel because that’s not how he sees his character. Like, proper pissed off. He would get uncomfortable about pride flags during photo ops. It came to the point where people would walk on eggshells at cons. 2012-13 was hard on the fandom on this point. He would never speak up about lgbtq related topics in politics either. Liking a tweet like Chris’s 10 or even 5 years ago? Never. He used to say that people in highschool would bully him for “looking too gay” because of his pouty lips and big eyes. I think he didn’t want to care about it but bullying leaves scars. Getting married to Danneel, meeting Misha, who are both very outspoken about lgbtq matters, opened him up, and he’s said himself that having his first daughter changed him deeply. He had a whole new perspective on unconditional love. Now, he’s enthusiastic about posing with pride flags, to sign fanart, he’s always so supportive of lgbtq fans at cons, hugs them, gives them words of encouragement, etc. Years ago he said “my father told me that there’s no manly way to drink out of a straw” and now he’s out there being crowned King at the Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans, posting rainbows on his social media, having makeup sessions wit his daughter, etc. He was very outspoken about his support for Beto in Texas last year, he goes to rallies, posts about it on social media, etc. And yeah maybe that’s the bare minimum but he wouldn’t have done it years ago but now he does and that’s worth something. He’s not a Destiel supporter but now the topic isn’t banned at cons anymore. He jokes about it, he understands better where people who see Dean as bi are coming from, even if it’s not his take on the character. He’s much more comfortable with himself and has come a long way. I’m happy for him.” That was my reply last year to somebody asking if Jensen was homophobic and while I obviously don’t know him, it’s what I gathered over the past 17 years or so. I was already a fan of him beofre Supernatural soooo, I’ve been around a while. Yes there was this moment, over 7 years ago at a con, where he let fans boo other fans for asking a question about Destiel, and he shut down the question, then the questions about Destiel were banned. That’s not the case anymore and it hasn’t been that way for years. Misha on the other hand as always been supportive of the ship, his “You’re not crazy” tweet from 2013 fueled us for years, and the fact that he went back to like it and bring attention to it today is the biggest I Told You So he could have given us.

About your question, making decision to keep them away from each other, yes, that has been a pattern for years, something would go in the script, and then they would change their minds - “the only thing we have left, Dean and I, is each other” in 5x04, the “A part of me always believed you would come back” in 7x17, the “I love you” in 8x17, Castiel’s heaven being just pictures of Dean everywhere, etc. The decision would come from either the actors or the writers and they gave tons of reasons but I won’t get into that. And every time we would have a Destiel heavy episode, it would be no Cas for weeks. Their reason for that is that if Cas was always around, what with how powerful he is, then there would be no plot for monster-of-the-week episodes, because he’d be able to fix the situation with a snap of his fingers. So they gave him storylines that would weaken him and/or keep him away from the Winchesters. But I also think they would give us crumbs to keep us hooked and then backtrack because it wasn’t the end yet.

Destiel is the only ship I’ve really invested in that wasn’t canon. Yet. Because, to me, it’s been canon for years. And I am absolutely convinced that had Supernatural ended with season 10 as planned, it would have been canon then. There were tropes and parallels that nobody could ignore. The whole of season 10, with the Cain/Dean and Colette/Castiel thing was so obvious even my Dad picked up on it. But the series got renewed again and again and they pushed it back, because The Powers That Be at the CW didn’t want to lose their homophobic fanbase, I guess. Isn’t that great :)))) Now that it’s ending for real, who cares? They don’t have anything to lose anymore. It must be quite an unpopular opinion but I think making Deancas canon at the end of the series has been the plan for a while, but it got pushed back with every renewal. 

To me they have been canon since season 8 thanks to a few selected writers, and as infuriating and sometimes hurtful as it was to keep watching for all these years when it could have been so much better, I’m still ecstatic they finally did it. Maybe for the wrong reasons, definitely not in the right way, but 1. the show isn’t over, and 2. this was my first real big ship when I had nothing else, and to be able, after over a decade, to hear that I love you, with no room for doubt that it was meant romantically, is making me happy., 

[folderalconspiracy]

Stop hurting people

First, I want people who are talking about Destiel with no knowledge to think about something. And that's who I'm talking to here:

I know there are some Destiel shippers who aren't happy, although I think you're mostly unhappy because you think this is the end...but I think you're wrong, and sorta you're being duped into that by the people I've addressing, who have decided to become giddy about queerbaiting or something. If you are Destiel shipper, or even a current viewer of the show, I'll know everything I'm about to say, and you might want to skip to my conclusion.

And let me be clear: I’m not a Destiel shipper, in the sense I really care about the relationship. In fact, I'm not really a 'fan' of the show exactly...I watch it, but often a season or two late. I just have caught up to 'see the show out', if you will...I watched it from the beginning, and I will see it end. And it's not like anything else is on. So I'm saying these things as a general, moderately engaged viewer of the show, not a shipper or fan.

If you are not a viewer, here's a ton of background about Cas 'dying':

You do not understand how this show works. Stuff is happening at the cosmic level, and almost all the players can immediately bring anyone else back to life.

And not only is death a revolving door, Cas didn't 'die' anyway. Jack went to The Empty, the same place as Cas, _literally earlier this episode_. And was sent immediately back out. The Empty is not hell...and also hell isn't hard to get out of, the main characters have wandered into hell (the actual hell) three times this season, once to borrow a cup of sugar.

Besides the Empty, Death can bring anyone back, and, she just died (We think?), meaning there's a new Death out there...although we don't know how that relates to everyone vanishing.

God probably _can't_ pull people out of the Empty it...or, least, we don't think he can. We're not sure. He's been upgraded a bit now that he has merged back with his sister. (No, I'm not explaining this show to you.)

Speaking of that: The end of this eposide had God erased all people from existence except the main characters. Probably cleared out Heaven and Hell too. The dead aren't going to stay dead, or this the most downer ending that has ever existed.

I mean, I get you don't watch the show, but you didn't even watch the _episode_!

As for the relationship:

These two characters have been in love with each other for quite some time. This isn’t me being a ‘shipper’, which would be something like promoting it or wanting the ship...I don’t really care. I am aware this relationship exists because it is clearly, textually, there. By both characters.

Dean has had worse reactions to losing Cas than losing his brother. (And had one at the end of this episode, although I don't know if the ten second clip you all apparently watched showed it.)

So, every single person who thinks Dean doesn’t love Cas is...hilarious wrong. It is maybe possible to argue it isn’t romantic on Dean's part, and it’s even more possible to argue that Dean can’t let himself go there, either out of some level of self-loathing homophobia and toxic masculinity, or the actual answer: He can’t let himself be in a relationship with anyone, because he knows it will end horribly, which is, of course, a thing I know because I watch the show. (And Cas literally said that thing in the very scene.)

Meanwhile Cas has said, a few times, how much he loved Dean, although he has tended to immediately backtrack in the way he did in this speech...saying he loved Dean, and then saying he loved everyone...but in this speech, he went back to talking about Dean. Making it very clear.

Other things I know, that you don't:

The phase ‘I want things I can’t have’ is a meaningful phrase as it has been used by Dean, about himself, talking about love, in regard to flirting with an imaginary women.

Dean recently has had a lot of realizations about himself, and some closure on his relationship with his father.

Only two episodes ago, God explain that this universe went sideways due to Castiel. In other universes, the apocalypse story (waaay back in season 5) played out as intended, but in this one, it didn't. Castiel used his free will, and the entire story, and universe derailed. And here, this episode, we get Cas confessing about how he learned to love due to Dean.

Thus, Castiel love for Dean saved the universe. Not metaphorically, or a shipper reading that in. That is a textual fact within universe of the show Supernatural: According to God, Castiel's free will derailed the End Times, and according to Castiel, his love for Dean is the reason that happened.

You guys basically just watched She-Ra and turned it off when Adora apparently died and ran online to start yammering about the show is homophobic for doing 'bury your gays'. Good job, everyone!

And I almost leave this out because I don't even want to have to say it: While it is a bit shitty for you, who don't know the character at all, to attack an actor portraying emotional responses in a normal way for a character, whatever. But it's incredibly offensive to imply this was due to the _actor_ being homophobic. You can attack the acting, because you...don't know anything and...came in with some weird assumptions based on whatever the clip said. But don't attack the _actor_. At worse, he's a bad actor. (He isn't.)

--------------------

And that brings me to my conclusion. It's technically a hypothetical:

When Cas comes back, either to be part of the next two episodes, or just to say goodbye, and when Dean manages either to stammer out his love confession or...not do that but somehow manage to indicate it's really there but he's not able to deal with it...

...how do you think all your clowning is going to look?

And how do you feel about shitting over all of this, when you don't know how it's going to end, and you don't even really know what's going on?

I'm part of the Supercorp fandom, and we, right now, have been talking about how we _might_ be seeing the buildup to the slowest, most epic slowburn on TV.

What if Supernatural beat us, what if they've been playing the long game for...not this entire time, but like five years or so? And create the slowburn to end all slowburns.

And _this_ is how the internet responded right at the end, by memes about being sent to super-hell for being gay, because we couldn't keep our fucking memes in our pants for two goddamn weeks?

So maybe all you clowns just...stop? Wait it out.

Because it's possible that the greatest Supernatural quote of all, which predates Castiel and certainly was intended as a joke at the time: And here we were thinking that, you know, we were teaching you and all this time you were teaching us, about heart, about dedication, and about how gay love can pierce through the veil of death and save the day.

...ends up being how the show ends?

[alexshenry]

Nuria, did you see the tumblr post that theorizes destiel was endgame but they rewrote the last 2 eps? The PowerPoint tumblr post. Just want to ask what are your thoughts if you've seen it?

Hi Sam!!! Yeah, I did see it and I definitely think that post was onto something. This season they gave Dean/Cas a lot of screen time compared to other seasons, like their confrontation and subsequential reconciliation was one of the main plot points, and obviously it all came to a head in ep 18. So, like, for there to be so much build-up and then suddenly for the last two episodes to pretend that nothing happened is very ????? it’s just very weird. The last two episodes were also very choppy, it didn’t make sense and it didn’t flow with the season at all. And not just the destiel part of it, also Sam/Eileen, and every other single arc that was going on.

Also, like, okay, sorry this is going to turn into a rant. But Berens (the writer for ep 18) confirmed multiple times, alongside Misha and Jensen, that the scene was one of the very first things written. Misha confirmed that he knew about this ONE YEAR before it was filmed. Like, you don’t put this much thought into it if it’s not going to go anywhere, yakow? I, cannot for the life of me think of an instance where a plot point would be so well thought out, for it only turn out to be a throwaway scene that never gets talked about ever again. Jensen also said that a lot of his reactions were cut from the scene, and there were also other sources that said that there was an emotional reaction from Dean in the following episode, where the poor dude was just heart wrenchingly screaming Cas’ name, so... yeah. idk. I think what happened was that the CW network and executives were on board before the lockdown, and then during the break they got cold feet, decided that if spn went into that direction then their conservative audience would be up in arms, and they backtracked and pretended nothing happened by attempting to sweep it under a rug. So, either that happened, or the writers (excluding Berens and Glynn), and the CW thought, “hey, those destiel dumbasses will eat anything we dangle in front of their faces, might as well have fun one last time” *shrugs*

Either way, I am 10000% sure that whatever happened, they didn’t think that the scene was going to cause such a major uproar and trend everywhere, and now they’re trying to cover their tracks and lie through their teeth, and get everyone else to lie, bc whatever the truth really is, it makes them look bad. and well, the only thing I can think of is destiel being canon, so. Here’s to queerbaiting and homophobia I guess 🖕

[coplins]

Please, please, don't go down the vindictive "ruin CW because they did a bad episode" rabbit hole. I'm sad they handled Cas poorly in the last 3 episodes, but it kills me to see authors I love supporting movements that are supporting widespread harassment of the actors and crew. A lot of SPN fans in these movements are behaving just like the anti-Captain Marvel fanboys and anti-Rey fanboys have, with spammed IMDB downratings, downright insane conspiracy theories and hate. It's breaking my heart.

Hey, Nonnie. I think your concerns are valid and I'm guessing this is about the post I reblogged about not watching CW for a week in February?

So here's where I'm coming from. The way I see it, the cast and crew were as fucked over as we were in that last episode. I love them dearly and I don't think they had any say at all in how the show ended. They shouldn't get any harassment for it. They do, but they shouldn't, and it's awful that they do get shit they don't deserve. It's like yelling at the cashier at McDonald's because the McFlurry machine is broken. It's not their fault, they can't do anything about it. I hate seeing some fans direct anger their way. I myself loathe Buckleming's writing but it would never occur to me to go on Twitter to tag them in hateful or angry messages. It doesn't do any good for anyone.

So. Back to the situation at hand. In the span of three episodes, we got queerbaiting, kill your gays, a complete eradication of the found family (SPN Family basically made a mockery of), and a strong message of "stay in your lane, you can't change anything, so be happy with the role society chose for you", heavy implications that women are only there to produce kids but otherwise have no emotional impact on their partner, child abusers go to heaven, topped off with obliteration of any and all character growth of the characters we identified with.

Now, I know the post I reblogged called for the hashtag 'reshoot the ending' or something like that. I'm not going to adhere to that bit. If you're a reader of mine you should know I'm a big believer in "Don't like? Don't read." The CW told the story they wanted to tell just like I write a whole lot of questionable stories too. That's their right. I don't have any say in what they put out in the world. But there's a slight difference. Since they're a major company, they impact society with the stories they tell. Hey, so do I. From comments, I know I've helped one person overcome their internalised homophobia to come out and someone else to recognise that they were in a toxic relationship. That's monumental for me. And that's not even a fraction of the impact a network like the CW has.

So when a show that was advertised as an inclusive found family story chooses to make the last episode backtrack on that and send several messages that go against some of my core beliefs, I feel conned. In hopes that they'll change in the future I have one way of showing that: "Don't read/buy/interact." But there's a problem. I still want to support the actors in their future endeavours and they might work for the CW and Warner Bros in the future. That means I can't stop watching CW indefinitely.

So that's why I support the one week rating drop in February. It might be felt, but it won't have a lasting economic impact. Hopefully just enough for them to realize queerbaiting, sexism, and mocking your core audience can have consequences. And if not, well then I'll end up doing what I always do when I come upon stories that have potential but play out in a way I don't like; I realize I'm not the target audience and stop watching/reading, not bothering to leave a comment about why.

I just wish the CW would have tagged properly, if you feel me? I mean, I enjoy Wincest as much as the next guy, but...

[j2madhatters]

Why Padalecki marriage annoys me - non Tinhat perspective

I can safely say that never before has a marriage annoyed me as much as the Padalecki marriage.  Even the Ackles’ behavior is reasonable.  They don’t kiss and make out public because Jensen is not an exhibitionist sort.  I have never respect PDAs.  In my opinion, it is inappropriate.  But remember, I am not a tinhat so you can draw your own conclusions about why the Ackles don’t “display” their love in public.  There is nothing wrong with theorizing. 

Genevieve, and Jared [when he is in husband mode] just irritate me.  They oversell it.  In the beginning, I thought she was so lucky to have a husband like him.  He is so beautiful.  He’s so sensitive.  He earns well.  He is respected in his field.  Plus he cried on their wedding day.  How beautiful is that?  For years afterwards, he would gush over her during his panels.  At first, I smirked, then I became poker faced, then I became mildly annoyed and then one day [I even remember the panel] it just got too noticeably exhibitionist.  It was the last question.  Timothy Omundson was called on stage, pretending to be the last question.  And he comically fangirled uncontrollably before perching himself on the designated chair.  His question was “who is your favourite guest star, and why is it Timothy Omundsom?’‘  It was a funny question, and Jensen went with it, saying that he was a fan of Omundson’s beard, which caused Robbie to throw a faux hissy fit because he had a beard too, darn it.  But Jensen pointed out that his beard was pathetic because it was short and he couldn’t braid it.  After the laugh fest, Jared gave his answer:  ’'My favorite guest star is Gen, because she’s my wife and the mother of my children”. 

For some reason, that is pissed me right off.  It was a funny question.  It didn’t warrant a serious, gushy husband reply.  Some witless creature made a mistake of pointing this out, in the comment section.  The entire page converged on her.  Even people who had initially agreed with her, backtracked.  I felt angry at this fandom's self-censoring.  I realized she was over loved, not because of any personal merit, but because she married Jared.  They were calling her a queen.  Seriously?  A queen.  For what?  So I went on the internet to see if I was the only weird person who couldn’t detect her monarchical merits. 

That was last year-ish.  How do you think I stumbled onto tinhats.  I like most hats because it seems they don't conform to the politically correct norm of ’'treat the wives like gold’’.  And they don’t ask tinhat questions during panels.  Unlike the leeches who love destiel and Misha Collins.  Jared was becoming too extra when it came to Genevieve.  And I noticed he inserted an obligatory Gen mention at least once, in every single panel.  Even after seven years, he was far too “in love”.  And eventually, instead of being happy for their happiness, I started feel like they were rubbing their domestic bliss in everyone’s face.  “look at what we’ve got, nyah nyah nyah.’'  My polite and genuine [but not over the top] respect for their marriage dissipated.

You know who he reminded me off.  He reminded me of Tom Cruise when he was a guest on Oprah and was over pushing the epic love he had for Katie Holmes, jumping on the couch and fist pumping the air.  That incident, I found humorous and embarrassing.  This was plain irritating.  I noticed he’s slowed down now.  The unnecessary wife mentions sometimes don’t even make an appearance, for which I am thankful.  I wonder why though.  Unless he is telling a story that she is a part of, like the Highway story, he doesn’t mention her anymore.  My non tinhat guess is that he was aware that fans were getting pissed off, especially since, he had mentioned something about her in a panel recently [I don’t remember which one], and someone in the front row said:  We know! 

Another thing I don’t like about this relationship is Genevieve intruding on fan space.  If people are paying bucket loads to see their favorite actor, unless they specifically ask for a guest appearance by the actor’s wife, don’t intrude.  Once, Genevieve appeared on stage, during a J2 panel, to contribute something unnecessary to the story they were recounting.  I think it was the highway story.  Then she made sure she kissed him before leaving, while the crowd watched.  Why?  She added nothing fresh to the story, and couldn’t she wait to leave the stage, to kiss her husband.  She isn’t paying to see her husband.  The fans are.  Don’t take that precious time away from them. 

And I noticed, she usually sits at the side of the stage, overseeing the whole exchange.  As far as I know, Danneel hasn’t done that yet.  Why the need to loom over the proceedings?  Does she love to hear him talk?  That reminds me of the livestream they did, where he was talking and she mouthed ’'blah blah blah’' while making a mocking hand gesture, because apparently he was talking too much.  So obviously Jared’s yammering doesn’t entertain her.  

Then at Jib, she got to join the panel.  I didn’t fault her for attending because apparently the previous year, he had gotten sick and didn’t make the con.  I assumed she was there for moral support.  I am a non hatter so that is my analysis.  You cant of course, explain your perspective.  But that doesn’t mean she needs to be on stage.  For what?  Its not like she did something spectacular whilst there.  Rob, Rich and Jared had to take over the discussion because she was so dull.  Eventually even Jensen joined in, revved the crowd up even further, and left.  One of her fan girls complained that the boys ’'didn’t even let her speak”.  Thank goodness they didn’t.  

She is inserting herself between Jared and the fan, and now people are forced to be enthusiastic about her.  Its so unfair.  It almost seems like Genevieve wants shared custody of the fans.  That is not how fame works.  You earn it.  You don’t inherit it.  I started to get more and more annoyed with being forced, [by all of fandom, I thought] to go crazy over some woman, I could care less for.  She wasn’t impressive as fake Ruby.  And I was not the only one who thought so.  Cassidy was a bland actor, in my humble opinion.  Genevieve was worse. 

The only reason she didn’t fade into oblivion, like all the other female actors, is because she married Jared.  There was a blog called anti-Genevieve on Tumblr, that received a lawyers letter to cease and desist, because of defamation of character.  Its her right to safeguard her reputation, so no problem there, especially if the blog is over malicious without proof or facts.  I did visit the site.  But I don’t remember seeing anything horrible other than her being called a beard.  But it has been a while so maybe I just forgot.  

However,  there is another blog called Supernatural Snark.  Almost the entire blog bashes Jared for everything that comes out of his mouth.  One day, an ask about Jensen’s weird behavior at Jibcon, illicited an odd response from the blogger.  The asker said that Jensen’s breakdown was Misha, Jared and the destiheller’s fault because Misha queerbaits his fans, Jared teases destiel and the fans abused Jensen on Twitter after Jaxcon.  She said Jensen was trying to pacify the fans.  The blogger said that it didn’t make sense for Jensen to wait six months to pacify the fans.  Then she disabled the comment so the asker couldn’t respond.  Of course, even I know he waited six months, because he shares no other panel with Misha.  That’s when I realized that Supernatural Snark is a heller blog. 

How come Genevieve doesn’t send a cease and desist lawyer’s letter to this witch.  I think I know why.  She only looked for anti stuff about herself on the net and that’s how she found this page.  If she was looking for anti Jared blogs, she would have found Supernatural Snark.  The Minute Maid commercial and her words in it were a little incentive.  She said she was making so many sacrifices.  Well missy, bundle up your babies and buzz off to Vancouver.  You husband is not gone off to war.  You are sacrificing nothing. 

She doesn’t seem to care for him.  She doesn’t care about his campaign.  She never tags AFK for anything.  She tags Random Acts, though.  The thing that makes my blood boil, on a personal level, is that she claims that she also suffers from depression.  As a bipolar sufferer myself, the one trend I noticed is that when people are impatient with me, and I point out that I have bipolar disorder, they quickly say that they also suffer from depression, so they don’t look bad.  Since when does she have depression.  Because if she did, she wouldn’t ignore her husband’s campaign that is supposed to help people like her.  Is she sharing in her husband’s sympathy the same way she is sharing his fame? 

She has diehard fans on Instagram.  One of them is Ivana.  Ivana gushily asked Genevieve to sign her name so that Ivana could have it tattooed.  I was surprised.  When did Gen become a rockstar?  Then I realized that Ivana has her own SM page where she says she is ITK and best buds with Genevieve.  So she knows that Jared abuses his wife and neglects his children.  Ivana is a heller.  Her best friend Lua James [@Poptivist on Twitter], led a smear campaign against J2 for the Nolacon joke.  Her followers are the ones that made this problem reach MSM.  And J2 had to apologize, publicly, for nothing.  That is ok, because what Lua and gang were initially hoping for was for separates for the boys' panels, so that Jared wouldn’t be near Jensen.  Genevieve is making herself the whip with which hellers can beat Jared.

And both Ivana and Lua cornered Danneel at one con to tell her how everyone hated her, except them.  That was their snide contribution to tinhat hate.  Danneel signed Poptivist’s SPN magazine, with the caption:  “He is mine, bitches”… something inappropriate like that.  Danneel was wrong for writing that.  I noticed she fights with Jensen’s fans a lot.  Ungracious.  Lua is so toxic that she needs a guard at the cons, supplied by Creation to keep an eye on her.  WTF!!!  I always wondered why she wasn’t just excluded, but I think it’s because she is friends with a Creation staff member who also happens to be Misha’s relative.  And because she is a Misha fan girl, she gets to stay. 

That’s why Misha’s face appears on the main posters with J2, despite him not being a lead.  Because he is related to staff.    The wives have no fans, but I think Genevieve’s ego is in denial.  Her intellect isn’t, which is why Jared’s appears in her vlogs.  He is the deal sealer for her.  One day this pompousness is going to backfire on Gen.  I hope she figures that out one day. 

APOLOGIES FOR ANOTHER LONG POST.  I HOPE YOU DONT MIND.

Thank you for your submission, I’ve always wondered what non-hats make of the OTT parade and the wife stanning.

[ouathinktank-metacommentary]

As OUaT comes to an end (?) one can’t not wonder where did all go wrong? Was it you who criticized parallels with BTVS/JaneE transferring her penchant for writing/promoting abusive relationships and violent sexist “badboys” and their ships ruining female characters? Because Kitsowitz’s Hook boner ruined OUaT the same way Marti/Jane E’s boner for shirtless Spike ruined Buffy. And it’s sad, because both used to be shows about “strong female characters” and ended up as odes to manpain. (cont)

All that we’ve sorely missed on our TV? Riiight. As if. We’vebeen promised a “modern” fairytale, and we’ve been naïve enough to hope thatthe story about Saviour and the Evil Queen, redeemed through the power of love,family and hope would be it. Naïve to think that “Jane E was a part of Buffy,they gave us Willow/Tara, the first great non-fetishized love story between twowomen”. But all we got was queerbaiting, heteroenforcing and Hook, Hook and moreHook. (cont)

To the point of Emma Swan, former “strong female hero” being disfigured beyond recognition and fading into nothingness.  And yeah. Six years of our lives called Once Upon a Waste of Our Time, while at least in Buffy we had five great ones, you know? :(

Not really sure that this is the end of OUaT, but generaluncertainty (the negotiations, as well as talks about a ‘reset’ and the needfor change they’re evidently desperately aware of) is a clear indication how much of a deep shit they’re in. And yet when it comes to reasons, they remain either oblivious orcareless? But speaking of those stolen borrowed things that came from BtVS… well, I am not sure. Wedid compare ships in terms of how they’ve been portrayed (Spuffy allegedlydeliberately as negative and harmful, while CS openly and directlyromanticizes same things) but… it’s true. The very same can be said about both, concerning the impact ofan unexpected popularity of a posturing, vaguely thuggish minor character in ablack leather jacket, turning a once-good show–into a really bad one. Because in television, as inlife, events tend to repeat themselves, but as proven so far–Brothers Dimshowed very little originality apart from the general idea (and S1, which Istill claim–was stolen and bleached bones of the original author are goingto resurface in Nevada desert at some point) and hence we got a whole premiseruined by Spike #2–Mr. quasi-redeemed-ex-rapist Killian Jones?

Because where elsedo we place blame for general mediocrity? Was it the onslaught of random “whichiconic character do you want to see next” episodic storylines that, instead ofconnecting things from the background/flashbacks–only fragmented everything?Was it the overemphasis on irrelevant new characters, love-interests as well asvillains-de-semiseason–that they never developed enough for us to give a damnabout? Was it the decision to build entire seasons around different Disneycharacters/realms while putting on hold (at best) and backtracking on anddirectly contradicting (often even retconning, yes) the main characters that wefell in love in the first place–by creating complex convoluted storylines thatmade less and less sense? Well, that’s only part of it. Because we all agree,things were much better before that point when everything started evolving around Hook, his quasi redemption and his obsession and pursuit after Emma Swan. Which is now history repeating itself,like in BtVS where all problems could be traced to the moment when Buffyfound out that Spike, attempted rapist and current possessor of a soul, hadsomehow been killing people despite his souled status–and from that point on,the show has no longer been about Buffy and her friends, or Buffy and hermission, or anything that used to be interesting on this show–it was about Spike. It involved Buffy trying to find out why he was killing again, then she spent several pointless episodes focusing her attention on freeing Spike (instead on the impending apocalypse), then a new character had a vendettaagainst Spike so we got an entire episode devoted to filling out Spike’s backstory… and we sat through various other plot threads about Spike. Even when Spikeisn’t on-screen, characters were talking about him, so it was ALL about him. AndBuffy, indirectly, through their (fucked up, for her–character degrading) relationship.And that was about all.

Sounds familiar?

(cut, because we don’t pull parallels and metas with pretty gifs–but cold hard facts and words, which means–long textpost ahoy :)

So, yeah. The comparison… is there. Evident. Starting with potential, and… actual result. Because nothingwould’ve been as problematic if Spike got any brilliantly fascinating stories,but he never really did–despite the potential inherent in the story of an evilcreature trying to reform. Because at every turn, writers copped out on hisstory, whitewashing his past to the point of retconning with contrived nonsensethat directly contradicted all the previous vampire mythology on both BtVS andAngel (like, even when he was turned into a vampire he allegedly wasn’t initially avicious killer) and making no attempt to show that having a soulhas changed him in any way. So ‘souled’ Spike is still a wisecracking punk wholiked to hit women (he hit Buffy, Anya, Faith) as means of foreplay (he ‘pined’ after Buffy, had sex with Anya, flirted with Faith to make Buffy jealous) and isolate Buffy from herfriends. And yet we were still somehow supposed to sympathize with him, because…why, he got a soul in the hope that Buffy would forgive his attempt torape her and sleep with him again? Because except for a couple of throwawaylines, Spike has never been made to seek redemption for his crimes, he nevermade an attempt to even apologize to anyone… for anything, really. Not thatapologizing would ever go with his character (the one he had, previous to his Buffy obsession) but the assumption appearedto be that he didn’t really need to atone because what, having a soul made hima different and better person? But the writers haven’t shown us that, all they showed us was the same ‘cool punk’ frombefore, only without the viciousness that made him moderately interesting.

Same goesfor Hook. He could’ve had fascinating stories, but he isn’t because all that heis–is a selfish douchebag who is now trying to be a ‘hero’ because he sees Emma ashis reward, his happy ending. And as BtVS did, at every turn OUaT cops out onhis story–whitewashing his past (it was always an ‘unfortunate set ofcircumstances’, not the fact that he was spoiled privileged daddy’s boy whobecame pirate out of… spite, really?) and making no attempt to show us thathe’s really trying to redeem himself, that he wants to. You know, the way they showed us that they can write redemption storylines–on Regina’s example? So he’sstill doing things behind everyone’s back, especially Emma’s (the shears) andof course lying (yeah, omitting to tell the truth is still lying–and not a solid foundation for a well-balanced relationship, but tell that to Tweens and Twimoms) andisolating Emma from her family, her son, her friends, her destiny… by means of emotional blackmail, via suicide attempts toget her to ‘save’ him–all the way to leaving her now to show that he ‘feels’ theweight of the ‘guilt’ and… yet we’re still somehow supposed to sympathize with him, because… why?Because he didn’t hightail in order to leave the site of his devastating loss, not to punish Emma–but he… went on aquasi-quest (that he didn’t really want to go on, it was a childish ‘twist’ tokeep them apart) just to realise that he didn’t really want to leave her? Lol.Ooo-kay. But hey, when he comes back (by means of some random MacGuffin of sortsthat will inevitably happen) he won’tcome back as a changed man, he’ll still be the same self-serving douchebag who,except for a couple of throwaway lines (to… Belle, only? Because they made themsuch ‘solid’ friends too, at the cost of her intelligence–trusting him and all,to further whitewash him) has neverbeen shown to seek redemption for his crimes, he doesn’t even apologize fortrying to kill ANY of them for cryin’ out loud, let alone… persistently endangering Henry? The assumption appears to be that he doesn’tneed to atone because… being with Emma apparently makes him a different andbetter person? Only, we haven’t been shown that either, all that we keepgetting is the same self-serving pirate, only without gang/rape jokes, beatingwomen up and shooting them, which… made him moderately interesting because assexist/misogynist as it was–he was a villain with some personality, after all?

And thoseare only some parallels. Captain Swan gaveus absolutely nothing that we haven’t seen eleventy kazillion times before. Samelike any interesting stories about a vampire with a soul have alreadybeen told on both Buffy and Angel, and with Spike all we got is a lotof half-naked posturing. Like Killan Jones gave us only… quasi brooding and love shown as obsession.

But it wasn’t an overemphasis on Spike (as a character, or aLI… no matter how wrong and fucked-up as their ship has been portrayed, because‘feminist’ Whedon gave us a story of an abusive relationship meant to be assuch–only it supposedly wasn’t sexist and misogynist because Buffy was ‘abusive’ towardsSpike, too?) that was the problem. This was brought up numerous times before, it was the way this emphasis has betrayedone of the most appealing themes of the show: that it’s OK to be uncool. It wasabout social outcasts fighting symbolic representations of twisted embodiment ofhigh school coolness, because monsters on the show were often portrayed assuch. While Spike, the way he was introduced (as villain, mind you–before beingshoehorned into a role of a hero, never meant for him) was exactly the kind ofsmartass punk who makes high school a miserable place for geeks. Arrogant,cocky and contemptuous of anyone who wasn’t equally cool, he was a superficial,self-confident and deserved to besmacked down by awkward heroes–who arereally the coolest and most heroic of all? And similarly in OUaT, with the transformation of Hook intoa ‘romantic hero’ (not even a ‘lovable antihero’, like Spike) they stoppedcelebrating female empowerment, strong self-reliant women who despite comingfrom an extremely broken and fragmented past… showed us how to punch back andfight for ourselves. Strong individuals with a lot of self-integrity, asdamaged as they were? And the show started celebrating the cool pirate with‘roguish charm’, rape-culture personified who gets what he wants, because he’shandsome and white, and… needs to be saved from himself by the love of a ‘good’woman–Christian Grey style?

Bringing us back to the original point we’ve all been repeating ad nauseam. Watching season afterseason about Craptain Swan and Hook’s warped journey of ‘redemption’ where Emma has become a selfish arsehole who blatantly disregards even her son, where Regina became a trusty sidekick whose only role is to follow Emma to hell and back, repeatedly (and quite literally, what subtext has been abundantly abused for, too?) to help her “get her pirate back”, and I don’t know agoddamn thing about what Snow or Charming or Henry are thinking, or even who they areanymore, and what the ever loving fuck is Rumple doing now, chasing the new son because he lost the one everything started with because of Hook, again, and… we will likely never find out, and it kind of breaks my heart. The bond between these characters, as FAMILY was supposed to be the heart of theshow, more than anything else–wasn’t it? But now it seems that on a show where an unrepentant self-serving prick can be a hero, a ‘romantic’ hero at that–there’s no more room for a celebration of the power offamily, love, hope–or the nobility of strong female characters who didn’t need men to find their inner strength or sense of identification.

So, yes. Buffy was a better show in the first four years, beforeSpike fell in love with Buffy, before Spike started taking his shirt off inevery episode, and when the focus was on four uncool people and their quest torid the world of… well, of characters like Spike. Same like OUaT was a better show when it was about mothers and daughters, about finding your family and coming back home to it. And I daresay that yes, it was an infinitesimally better show when we had a glimpse of hope that it was going to be that ‘modern fairytale’, about two mothers being connected through their love for their son. But again… tell that to the two idiots.

[dorkshadows]

The Demons Strike Back

Objectively, the professional reviews give this film 2-3 stars out of 5 and I think that’s fair. 2 or 3 depending on how much enjoyment you got. It’s an alright movie in total and there are fun things for JTTW fans (provided you’re not a purist who can’t stand any deviation from the book).

Subjectively, I’m giving this a 10/5 for shipping bias lmao but that won’t have anything to do with the pseudo-review below the cut. Just look at that picture.

It’s important to note that this is first and foremost a Tsui Hark film: his style, his direction, his tone. There are elements of Stephen Chow, but as far as Chow comedies go, this really isn’t and shouldn’t count as an example. 

Things that this movie deserves kudos for:

The soundtrack; it’s better than the prequel and more emotional overall

Sanzang outright puts his disciples on display and charges admission LOL

Fight scenes are great and special effects are pretty good for a non-Hollywood production

Then things get more subjective from here on out. Reviews ragged on the storyline for “lacking coherency/ having no story”- I disagree. It was streamlined enough, it just didn’t have that 3-act all-connection structure you’d expect from a popcorn movie. And I do fault the filmmakers for that because I doubt they set out to make an arthouse film- this was a blockbuster and it does need that high-and-low plotline most audiences want.

Characterization-wise, I think we got a pretty good sense of Wukong’s persona. His actor was the best one in Sanzang’s group. Different than the prequel’s Wukong but not exactly like any other adaptations either- Hark/Chow at least succeeded in creating a new Wukong. The trailers made him look hilariously angsty, but he’s not as emo as I thought he’d be- just has anger issues and a #resting bitch face. His desire to murder/hurt Sanzang, but also be liked/forgiven by Sanzang, combined with the inability to articulate that desire, was a checkmark. And that would’ve been a highlight if it wasn’t for what happens later (more on that below). I was also surprised by how downright... sexy his performance was, I’d tap him. 

I don’t see the point in giving Wukong 3 monkey forms, with none of them looking like the monkey from Conquering the Demons. I know the whole cast changed, but still, that tiny yet freaky CGI monkey didn’t have to change (I missed it!). 

Kris Wu was, er, not great, better than his other acting roles, but not as good as the prequel’s lead. But I could tell he was trying his best haha. That aside, the character- a lot of what he does really depends on what you think of him- a genuinely smart person, manipulative, kind? All of the above? I liked that aspect of the writing. Ultimately, he’s supposed to be a good person (carrying on from the prequel) and there’s one plot twist that I both love and hate because it does wonders for his character but also undermines something (more below- it’s the same thing with Wukong fyi).

The film didn’t forget Duan and she’s integral to the plot/Sanzang’s character so that was a plus. Her memory really connected Sanzang, Wukong, and the new love interest TM. And it’s a good choice to have the film “honor” her by not giving the new love interest TM half the love it gave Duan in the prequel. 

Bajie and Wujing didn’t get as much screentime as I expected. That was disappointing because Wujing looks awesome in the movie. They had great designs and aside from some funny lines, didn’t get to do much. 

I liked the final villain- it was a logical twist and the actress wasn’t bad . She was funny and unrepentant to the end (not gonna spoil who she is). The spider demons were really cool too- they just didn’t have much to do with the plot. Red Boy’s design was unexpected, but I thought it was creative and the best fight scene was his and Wukong’s. I don’t have much thoughts on the final, final fight because it was WILD lol, but the transition to Sanzang’s trump card could have been clearer.

As for the love interest TM (Eng. subs called her “Felicity” for some reason lol), I honestly did not care. She came into the plot when there were like, 30 minutes left (!?), knew Sanzang for 1 day, and suddenly is in love with him. Her death was alright and SPOILER she’s actually the white bone demon. I appreciated Sanzang not loving her back though- he saw a bit of Duan in her but that was it. He was actually “using” her. 

But she was the worst written character and it just felt repetitive for the love interest TM to die, especially when she’s this inconsequential.  I would have preferred her 1) getting introduced earlier, 2) getting a redemption arc and leaving alive, 3) providing a better explanation for why she was helping the big bad. She was so unimportant that her death wasn’t even there for #ManPain. Her role needed a lot of work. 

Humor-wise, some moments made me laugh (Chow’s writing there), but this is more of a dramedy than a comedy. The tone’s more “serious” than Chow’s movies, but the humor and drama do balance out- some jokes (or I think they’re supposed to be jokes) just fall flat. Chow fans will be disappointed though. I know I was. 

Now for that twist I love/hate:

Basically, Sanzang and Wukong have a dramatic fall-out, where Sanzang admits he hates Wukong for killing Duan, and it snowballs from there. But it was all an act Sanzang organized to trick the big bad into showing herself. This shows that he’s smart, makes the love interest TM things 10x less cliched, and shows he does have chemistry with his disciples, but it also leaves you going “huh?” in retrospect.

Because this twist makes you backtrack through the whole movie until you realize every conflict Sanzang had with his squad in the film was an act. Then where’s the actual character development? How did he and Wukong move past the Duan thing? At what point did Sanzang really win over his team? It’s a very good twist, but awkward in retrospect, like they cheated us out of character development.

Misc (subjective) thoughts:

The script wouldn’t have been so awkward if some events were switched around (ie. swap the order of the Biqu Kingdom scenes with the spider demon scenes)

Bajie is into BDSM- this isn’t even a joke. He really does have a kink for it. Also, it’s implied he has a thing for Wukong in addition to women lol

Thanks to that plot twist above, it’s implied that Sanzang walked up to Wukong and said, “Beat me up and eat me”- I’m not sure how to feel about this, this is the kinkiest group of pilgrims I’ve ever seen

Wukong/Sanzang is borderline canon by the end, and I don’t mean in the queerbaiting way (maybe I’m biased but I hope to have better sense than that! Plus, Tsui Hark doesn’t have to resort to that), but in a “this is as much as we can get through the censors in a high profile Chinese jttw adaptation- we did it because we wanted to lmao” way. Not spoiling this one fantastic bit at the very end, but let’s just say Steve/Bucky shippers only wish they had this much canon support. 

(Lastly, Kenny Lin said Wukong suffers from “unrequited love” in this movie. Make of that what you will, but this Great Sage was not straight imo.)

Overall:

It’s not a deep film, but I don’t think it’s completely meaningless. The story’s all over the place and you probably won’t care for any of the characters unless you’re like me already attached to the JTTW team regardless of their incarnation. It’s not a good comedy, but certainly not a total drama, and it does make you want to see what happens next. 

I’d rec it if you A) like mindless but well-choreographed action B) are crazy about JTTW like me C) are a fan of the leads, and/or D) ship Wukong/Sanzang

Chow has a sequel in mind and regardless of what bored people on the internet reviews say, this movie made money. So here’s to hoping he gets to make a trilogy! 

[dramaphan]

what was the reaction to ttlmt like? i have a really bad memory and it feels like so long ago i can’t remember

It was bad, dude. Like I have never seen a fan base change their tune faster than the phandom did when Dan did his live show after that video.

Basically, (and I’m completely going by memory so forgive me if some details are wrong or missing) Dan posted ttlmt. In which he made various, vaguely sexual jokes about oral fixation and things going in and out of his mouth. Not at all the point, or the main focus of the video, just brief passing mentions for the sake of a laugh.

Well. Naturally that’s the literal one and only thing the phandom fixated on. The meaning and the point of the video was entirely lost and ignored, because people were too busy debating whether or not a vague dick joke was equal to coming out.

I think this reaction freaked Dan out a little bit. Because now we know that at the time, ttlmt was kind of his way of testing the waters. He did a live show after that, in which he basically just said “hey, I get it, but that wasn’t really the point of the video.” He didn’t deny anything. He didn’t no homo us. He really just went “yeah I wasn’t making any big announcement you guys there was a whole other point”

And the phandom turned on him. People started accusing him of backtracking, “putting one foot back in the closet”, a few said he was queerbaiting, and a select few were even throwing around words like gaslighting, manipulation, and abuse. All because they misunderstood what Dan’s video was about.

It wasn’t the entire phandom, of course. But it was enough. It was too fucking many. And there’s not a single doubt in my mind that it slowed Dan’s actual coming out process, and was a catalyst for his now two year long hiatus.

[kmbezner]

I read this book in one sitting

My Best Friend's Exorcism by Grady Hendrix

But I’m not really sure why. But there must have been something I liked to read it all at once. So why the 3 star rating? Well friends, in this house we deduct major points for a book that spends all of its time queerbaiting its readers.

But I’m getting ahead of myself, and as glaring as it is this isn’t my only problem with the book. So let’s start at the beginning.

Our story opens with Abby Rivers, now a successful adult with a generic job in a nondescript office, discovering that the exorcist has died. This isn’t really relevant to the rest of the story, but provides a convenient excuse to pretend that Abby had either forgotten or repressed everything that had happened during her sophomore year of high school, which, given the rest of the story, I find very hard to believe. This completely useless first chapter essentially triggers the flashback that is the rest of the story.

And that story itself isn’t that bad. The next two chapters track the growth of Abby and Gretchen’s friendship through elementary and middle school before jumping again to a weekend at another friend’s boathouse where Gretchen becomes possessed. There is no how or why to her possession, which, okay. It’s not exactly necessary information, but reads like weak world building. But whatever. Gretchen is possessed, and this is when the story actually starts. From here it’s a pretty typical exorcism story, with enough forward momentum and just enough lack of substance that once I started I kept reading till the end.

The most important part of the story is Abby and Gretchen’s relationship. When Gretchen realizes something is wrong and is still fighting the demon for control of her body, she comes to Abby for help. Abby is convinced that Gretchen has been raped (there are a lot of parallels between the violation of possession/exorcism and abuse anyway, so there’s an argument to be made that she actually was but I won’t make it here). Abby does what she can to help by going first to Gretchen’s parents and then to the principal. Oh, and I forgot to mention that this takes place in a particularly “proper” neighborhood in Charleston, South Carolina, so prepare to be infuriated by the southern aristocratic attitude that the keeping up of appearances is more important than actually dealing with your shit. So yeah, going to the adults gets exactly nothing done.

Sidenote: I actually really like the way Hendrix sums up this phenomenon on page 176: “The day you become an adult is the day you learn that in Charleston, the worse something is, the less attention it receives.”

So Gretchen is left alone believing that no one can help her, not even her best friend. And that’s when the demon fully takes over. Suddenly Gretchen is more popular, smarter, better, and no one but Abby can tell that something is still very wrong. Of course she would know, being the one closest to Gretchen. But not like, in a gay way, apparently.

Anyway over the course of the next dozen or so chapters, all your demonic things happen. People are manipulated to hurt themselves, animals die in weird ways, there’s a hurricane, and a general shitstorm ensues. What’s important is that eventually, Abby attempts an exorcism. It’s pretty slow at first as Abby and the exorcist attempt a traditional Christian exorcism until the exorcist bails and Abby realizes she has to do this alone. Sitting alone in a room with Gretchen and Gretchen’s demon, Abby has an epiphany: the exorcism wasn’t working because she was invoking the power of things she didn’t actually believe in, so instead she invokes the power of their friendship and everything that brought them together. Cheesy, I know, but I actually really like the idea of it. I say the idea of it because I can’t fully get behind a story mechanic that results in this: 

“By the power of Phil Collins, I rebuke you! […] By the power of Phil Collins, who knows that you coming back to me is against all odds, in his name I command you to leave this servant of Genesis alone.” 

Yeah, that’s a thing that happened, and I know this is the climax and I know it’s supposed to be the basis of their friendship but I can’t take those lines seriously. I’m sorry, I just can’t.

But let’s backtrack for a minute. Earlier in the book Gretchen and Abby have established what’s basically their own version of “no homo”: I love you DBNQ, or just DBNQ. Dearly, but not queerly. Despite all the hints that Gretchen at least has stronger feelings for Abby, we always come back to DBNQ. But during the exorcism, after invoking the power of Phil freakin’ Collins, Abby confesses that she loves Gretchen, and it’s the best part of the whole damn book:

“I love you, Abby shouted into the storm. “I love you, Gretchen Lang. You are my reflection and my shadow and I will not let you go. We are bound together forever and ever! Until Halley’s Comet comes around again. I love you dearly and I love you queerly and no demon is bigger than this! I throw my pebble and it’s name is Gretchen Lang and in the name of our love, BEGONE!!!”

Damn.

So at this point I’m feeling pretty triumphant that these two ladies finally get their fucking moment. And yeah, high school relationships rarely last (the same can be said of high school friendships), but at least they have this fucking moment.

But then everything was ruined.

The next couple chapters outline the consequences since Abby and the exorcist literally kidnapped Gretchen to perform the exorcism. We see Gretchen and Abby running to each other and reaching for each other as they are separated. But what ruined the whole book was the last four pages. Apparently, four pages is all it takes to completely undo a whole book’s worth of dropped hints and one phenomenal scene of confession and tensions broken. Because the last four pages outline the 70 odd years of Abby’s life, and how she and Gretchen kept up, then didn’t keep up, then got in touch again, then fell out of touch again, then life gets in the way, blah blah blah. Like I said, high school relationships rarely last.

But then we get this gem:

“She loved Gretchen, but what really lasted? Nothing was strong enough to stand against the passage of time. But Abby was wrong. When she died at the age of eighty-four, there was one person holding her hand. There was one person who sat with her every day. Who made Glee leave when she got too loud and who made Devin, Abby’s ex-husband, visit even though he hated sickness with a phobic intensity. There was one person who read to her when she could no longer see the pages of her book, who fed her pumpkin soup when she got too weak to feed herself, who held up a glass of apple juice when she could no longer raise it to her mouth, and who moistened her lips with a sponge when she lost the ability to swallow. There was one person who stayed by her side even after Mary got too upset and had to leave the room. There was one person with her, all the way down the line.”

Surprise, it was Gretchen.

And if we can just pretend that the paragraph after this one doesn’t exist, then this ending is sums up a wonderful story of two friends turned lovers who overcame it all and made it back to each other after years of hiding from themselves. But even after this loving, delicate, beautiful scene, Hendrix writes: “Abby Rivers and Gretchen Lang were best friends.”

And I fucking lost it.

Sure, there are stories of best friends like this. Sure. But what the fuck is the point of queerbaiting all your readers only to snatch it away on the LAST. FUCKING. PAGE.

Over the course of the story, we have parents calling their relationship “inappropriate,” kids teasing them about being queer, pre-possession Gretchen building up the courage to make a major confession to Abby that we never get to see, Abby unable to let go of the fact that Gretchen just suddenly doesn’t care about her anymore when anyone else would have assumed that this shit just happens sometimes and sometimes people change. Gretchen’s imaginary boyfriend named Andyfor fuck’s sake.

It’s all there, and if one of them were a dude, I find it very hard to believe that they wouldn’t have hooked up at some point. I find it hard to believe anyway, given everything and all the time they spent together.

“But why can’t they just be friends? Why can’t this just be a story about a beautiful friendship?” Sure. I hear you. But when people say all the time things like: “I married my bestfriend,” when labels like “life partner” are becoming more common stand ins for husband/wife, when people are breaking down the whole dating/courting game in favor of spending their lives with people they actually care about, why is it so hard to believe that two best friends might transition into a romantic relationship?

Wait wait wait! I know this one. It’s cause they’re gay.

I, and many people I know, are all too eager to devour stories like these, stories that despite all odds might actually just be a gay high school horror. Too often, we leave disappointed. And even though we will jump on any hint that everything’s not all straight, this is not an invitation to tease us, to take advantage of our desperation for representation only to yank away any promise of it because you’re afraid of alienating your straight audience. Fuck that. There are plenty of straight romances for anyone who wants them, and all you accomplish is ruining a very promising story like this one. And I’m really fucking tired of begging for scraps and being told I’m asking too much.

Overall, the beginning felt crafted. The middle was fine. The ending was very rushed. So if you plan on reading this book, skip the first chapter. Enjoy all that the story has to offer. Skim the last two chapters, and try to pretend that 90% of the last paragraph doesn’t exist (the bit about Halley’s comet is worth reading though). You might end up disappointed like I did, but hey! that’s what fanfic’s for right?

[ouathinktank-metacommentary]

Is it wrong that every time i see a meta now about how Swan Queen is endgame or CS is supposed to look bad intentionally i get angry? How can someone trust these writers after everything that we have gone through?How can you analyse camera angles and clothes when the plot is so ridiculus? I feel that people are queerbaiting themselfs and others at the same time

Is itwrong to be angry? No. Of course not. But what you need to do here is ask yourself, who exactly are you angry at, here? Because whatyou are talking about--is people. People like you and me, people who have everyright to believe and share that belief with any other like-minded soul outthere. So whether we are talking about the ‘endgamers’, people who desperatelyneed to believe simply because thisnarrative gives them validation of their own existence, or those who do it as aform of a protest by proving that positive outcome is there, still attainabledespite this show’s insistence on ignorance, erasure and blatant endorsement ofharmful things implemented in their writing (heterosexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia)as well as writing/production team/cast’s insistence on ignorance and barely suppressed disgust towards femslash ship fans… thenwho the hell are we to act all high and mighty to gaslight them? The same way these homophobic bigots (yes, bothshowrunners and their heterosexist fans) are doing to us? Because yes, bottom line here isthat you (as Swan Queen fan, and a SWEN–I assume) are actually implying that they,largely queer people–are incapable ofobjective analysis instead of projection, implying they are delusional–just like CSers and otherheterosexists do?

I mean, really? Have wenot been gaslit enough, so do we really need to do thisto each other now, too?

There isa LOT of bad shit in this fandom. Way too many individuals who more often than not do thethings they do for wrong motivations, egotistical intellectual self-imposing,as ‘kings’, ‘queens’ and ‘prophets’, because jolly gosh–-all other people in thisfandom are sheep and in a dire need of a leader that would guide the hive mind?So the tone matters, because saying “thisis it and nothing else is possible” (like these self-imposed sheep-herdersdo) is nothing like these other people, ‘hope peddlers’ if you will–making cleardistinction between projection and research and analysis or something. If nothing, then becausethe voice, everyfucking individual voice matters, you know? You see, that’s something that we here as a blog stood up for since day one--and yet me here, not a blog mod but an individual typingthis personal response to you--had a VERY unpleasant experience recently. Because of this exactmisdirected anger. 'Cause wow, I refusedto judge these people the same way you’re doing now. So I’ve been under a flak, accused of lack of objectivityand self-servitude becauseof my ‘personal affiliations’ with some of them. Just because why, some individuals needed someone to blame, and I wasjust in their way, a collateral, because geez--people are terrified about something unexpected that isn’t destructive?

In the end, anger is energy--should be directed at something. So I’d suggest aiming yours at the showrunners. Not any of the fans, or even actors (which is yet another problematic symptom of misguided indignation in this fandom) because it’s the showrunners who created this narrative (whetherunintentionally or not) and ran with it, and then when thought that theygarnered a bit of a too much queer following, afraid of the stigma--they startedto backtrack, while of course trying to keepus as audience. So if you’ve been queerbaited, it was by them--not by any other fan out there. And this is like, blaming the victim now--isn’t it?Ultimately, in the ageof information, ignorance is a choice. And there have to be queers willing to be baited, so if you use your head and refuse to be one of them... well--there will be no anger to mis/direct at all?