#and narutos the fucking hokage

[evilkitten3]

it would've been really funny is team 8 had stayed as murder-happy for the rest of the manga as they were in the forest of death. not even as a major plot point just as a running gag. anything happens and team 8's default solution is homicide.

[theshadowrealmitself]

“They don’t care about being uzumaki’s-“ and isn’t that sad? in a world where everyone else who’s from a clan knows their clan intimately and has all these customs and history to make them feel closer to their family, the Uzumaki clan is just lonely orphans scattered to the winds?

Isn’t it sad that Naruto lives in a village where his father’s face overlooks it, everyone who knows his dad says he looks like him, wanting to be a hokage is seen as following his dad’s footsteps, that one of his teachers was his dad’s student and the other teacher was his dad’s teacher, and yet Naruto doesn’t have his mom’s chains, or her hair, all he shares with her besides a love for ramen is the burden of being a jinchuuriki and a clan name that he doesn’t care about ?

Isn’t it sad that there used to be a clan and now there’s no one left to mourn or care about them, isn’t it sad that the last two members might as well be considered clan less since there’s nothing tying the two of them together? Isn’t it sad that 3 separate Uzumaki’s had to bear the burden of being a jinchuuriki for a village that didn’t even bother to remember them? Isn’t it sad?

[baobeikvn]

you know i'll always go back to them 🍎🍍

[comikadraws]

Whats tobirama's beef with the Uchiha?

An Analysis of Tobirama's Prejudice

EDIT: If you have headed here via another user's post, here is a note. That user has never interacted with me. They clearly also haven't read any of my previous or linked posts, as far as I can tell. They simply just blocked me and then made that post to harass me afterward - completely out of the blue. My post has since been edited to better combat bad-faith takes and bullies like her.

Oh boi. More Tobirama. Once again, I am probably biased but these are my thoughts on him.

First of all, the guy definitely had beef with the Uchiha Clan, but I personally find the "racist" allegations he often gets to be... difficult, to say the least (not that I necessarily disagree with them). It is just that there are some very oversimplified, black-and-white takes out there with zero nuance.

Not that I am necessarily better but I'm definitely trying xD

Tobirama's Prejudice

Tobirama doesn't "hate" the Uchiha Clan but considers them to be a danger to Konoha. That is because

The Uchiha were more loyal/attached to the concept of "clan" rather than the concept of "village" (which stood in conflict with one of Konoha's main philosophies). Hence Tobirama sees them as "rebellious".

The Uchiha are more likely to lose themselves to intense hatred (aka "Curse of Hatred"). And, in the world of Naruto, hate is one of the main motivations of war, ever since the Warring States.

Combine that with the several bad experiences Tobirama and other Senju have had with the Uchiha (centuries of recurring battles, the death of Kawarama and Itama, Madara leaving the village) and you can see why Tobirama would think the Uchiha Clan is dangerous. Beyond that, Tobirama's character actually makes a lot of sense - more so than if he didn't have any prejudice. The prejudice he has is realistic.

He also personally does not believe that he "hates" the Uchiha and describes his bias as "caution".

The Racist Allegations

As I have already covered in this post about the Curse of Hatred, there might be parallels to our world's definition of racism, but Tobirama is not intended as a racist by Kishimoto.

What is important to understand is that perceived themes of racism in fantasy settings (where made-up races can have all sorts of magical differences between them, even those that are undesirable) do not equal actual racism in the real world (where racial differences are purely cosmetic) and often make for a bad analogy.

What I have also covered in the same post is that the Curse of Hatred very much does exist and Tobirama was right to assume that there is something "wrong" with the Uchiha. (For all of you not interested in reading, the TL;DR is that Zetsu's been manipulating the Uchiha for centuries, hence the illusion of a "curse")

Whether his theory was correct or not, however, is up to the audience's interpretation. The problem here is that Kishimoto never contradicted Tobirama's theories and also that they were presented and treated as exposition by the narrative. I am basing my own theory specifically on the exposition given by Hagoromo (chapters 670-671) and Zetsu (chapter 681) who are both relatively reliable sources and seem to imply (emphasis on "imply") that the Curse of Hatred mostly just affects Indra's reincarnates rather than the entire clan (again, reference to my other post because it has nothing to do with Indra specifically but rather just with Zetsu being manipulative).

Not that Tobirama could reasonably know about that detail, though. What he saw instead were centuries of war and Madara's defection, leading him to believe that there must be something influencing the Uchiha's decision-making. (And yes, assuming that my own interpretation about Zetsu is correct, that would make Tobirama a racist as his theories are not based on fact).

Systemic Oppression of the Uchiha?

Another misconception that people apparently have is that Tobirama ostracized the Uchiha Clan, which is untrue. Yes, the guy was horrible, was far too wrapped up in his own trauma, and should not have become Hokage. Not even because I think he was a bad leader necessarily but simply on principle.

That being said, the Uchiha were not being purposefully isolated from the rest of the village. The police force is neither entirely comprised of Uchihas nor are Uchihas forced to join the police. Instead, it is implied to be a choice in the manga.

Somebody else pointed out Orochimaru mentioning that the Uchiha had their clan compound near the prison. But this is not a criterion of ostracization. All the other canonical information we have on the Uchiha's supposed ostracization is based on Obito, who is famously a liar and not a reliable source (therefore it is up to headcanon).

Tobirama also practically gave away permanent leadership of the police. The police are part of the executive branch in any government, just like the military or, in this case, the ANBU - with the only difference being that the police don't require Hokage orders for everything they do. The Uchihas working at the police are in a position of power rather than in a position of suppression. It is also implied that they are able to arrest anybody they want (except ANBU members) without a warrant (again, emphasis on "imply" because the context implies that arrest without a warrant is possible for all non-ANBU citizens).

Keeping this in mind, the establishment of the Uchiha Military Police Force was (most likely) indeed a gesture of goodwill and trust. It was not a slight and it was not an attempt at ostrachization. If anything, it shows that Konoha (and by extension, the police) was corrupt and abusing power on a regular basis (though that is not the point of this post but yes, Konoha's politics are no unchangeable gospel).

There are more misconceptions about Tobirama that are often twisted to fit people's agenda, but I'll leave it at that for now.

My personal conclusion is that Tobirama might fit our real-world definition of "racist". But that heavily depends on your interpretation. Either way, Tobirama was a product of his times.

[oh-no-its-bird]

Someone said Hokage Tora and now I'm thinking about what would need to happen to make that a reality.

Ok so we're gonna shuffle the Hokage's and their timelines around.

(Also note: at this point, Tora very sympathetic to the Uchiha bc of his relationships w Shisui Itachi and Sasuke)

So Sarutobi dies and people are going "oh noooo someone go and get Tsunade back"

And Tora gets PISSED.

They want another Senju to have the hat?? Are you fucking kidding him??? 2 in a row was bad enough but 3 sets a standard. Choose literally anyone else! Anyone!! Fucking Kakashi would make a better Hokage!!!

And then he stops.

Hmmm. Kakashi as Hokage.

That... wouldn't be too bad, actually?

Long story short: Tora starts to campaign for Kakashi as Hokage.

Kakashi does not appreciate this. Stop immediatley.

Tora is on the civilian council at this point (at the terrifyingly young age of like 17) and lowkey has them under his thumb. So he's able to get them all aboard, meaning Kakashi is officially civilian approved.

The Uchiha are into it to, with him lowkey being the closest they've been able to get to the seat since fucking Madara. He has one of their eyes, he's lead/taught both of the clan head kids, and hes visibly, publicly close to multiple Uchiha/Uchiha sympathizers (Itachi, Shisui, Tora)

He's the yodaime's student which gives him major points in the politics department, + he actually knows what it is like to be in the life of a Hokage, he has seen and been involved in that life firsthand

Hes also on good, personal terms with a few clan heads and solidly neutral terms w the other clans

His clan is innofensivley small (read: fucking wiped out) so there's no concern with biases of a guy coming from a specific clan, working w a bias for that clan

Perfect candidate!!

(Something something Kakashi quietly touching his eyelid and mumbling to Obito that he guesses he'll be able to show him even more of his dream than even he'd expected)

Danzo tries to intimidate him into not accepting it and while Kakashi does agree that he would be one of the worst options, the conversation kinda... leaves him a little less sure he'd really be the worst option.

Anyways, Kakashi as the godaime hokage!!

He hates it.

Tora Shisui and Itchi have to hunt him down the day of his ascension and fuckin wrestle him on stage (he's gonna go home and scream into his pillow later)

How would Naruto canon change with Kakashi as the Hokage so early?? Until this point, the au has mostly been sticking to the script (minus the Uchiha massacre) but this is a HUGE status quo change for a character decently central in the cast list, and it's a change that'd impact just about everything going forward! Don't ask me how exactly because I know very very little about the actual specifics and events of canon but holy shit it'd sure change the course of history, huh? If you wanna get really down to the nitty gritty technicalities, we could take serious liberties and kill off and or save several characters with the simple explanation of "different Hokage, different people assigned to different missions"

Anyways:

Team Ro gets to be his personal guards,, they need a replacement for the team since Kakashi left, maybe we can throw in someone else to join them and add some more chemistry in there

I don't think it'd be anyone on team 7 (I don't live in a world where I can see Kakashi tossing specifically THEM in ANBU that young, no matter how more powerful or better taught than cannon, sorry) also conflicting interests w THREE uchiha on a team or the Haruno siblings. Also, Naruto is Naruto, so. *political noises*

Actually the slot is a very valuable one since they're basically Kakashi's special little guys (anbu eddition) so it's really hard to think of a character that'd even conceivably be put on it. (Part of me wants to add Neji for literally no reason other than I suddenly want him in the AU but that'd bring a whole mountain of implications with him if Kakashi chose HIM specifically to join his personal guard + he's suddenly in ANBU, what??)

Wait would Kakashi even choose the replacement personally.

Wait wait ok. Record scratch. Rewind. Let's try this again.

So. With Kakashi's promotion, Tora gets to he team leader. One of the first things he's told is to find a new replacement for the team

"Shouldn't you do that yourself?" Says Tora

"You've got me to take the hat I refuse to move so much as a single fucking finger more at your request." Says Kakashi, who then delights in bodily removing Tora from the room via the window.

I don't know Neji's actual age but for the sake of this fic he's suddenly Tora's age or only a year younger (Tora is like 17 at this point)

Him and Neji do not get along!! At all!!!! Actually it was kind of hate on sight.

Uhh insert montage where they become grudgingly almost friends but still mostly frenemies

Neji is very talented and Tora is frustrated by how he seems to be being "held back" in some way. Like, he doesn't like the guy! But damn if he doesn't know how it feels to have the system itself fighting you, no matter how good you prove you are and how hard you work.

Anyways, Tora finding out Neji was skipped over and denied for different promotions or smthn bc hyuuga second class or whatever.

And him going "hmmmmmmmmm...."

He hands Kakashi a form with Neji's name on it and Kakashi signs without even looking.

When he scowls and asks if he's even going to look, Kakashi just gives him a dry look.

"Like I dont know whoever you've picked won't be for whatever plot you're cooking up next. Just don't set anything on fire where I can see it and I don't care."

A very, very confused Neji is suddenly told he's not only going to join ANBU but also the Hokage's private guard.

Hey Tora !! What the fuck !!!

They have one of those "You don't even like me??" "I don't have to like you to want to see how far you can go." moments

Queue Neji angrily revealing that it doesn't matter "how far he can go" or how many opportunities are afforded to him bc his limits are fuckin branded on him, and shows Tora his seal mark

Hey Neji !! What the fuck !!!

Hyuuga reformation arc,,,

Ok so not sympathetic Hiashi Hyuuga but like,, rational (deeply fucking flawed) person Hiashi who is able to leverage the "Neji has been ordered to work directly the Hokage" @ the Hyuuga clan elders to at least slightly loosen the seal on him.

TONNS of political drama in the Hyuuga house w Neji being chosen for such a huge position, but w the complications of "they can't fucking voice it outloud" bc ANBU identities are supposed to be super top secret, so it's kept to the really high ranks only

(There's an AU of an AU out there where instead of stopping the Uchiha coup, Tora went "ok but are they wrong tho", decided to help instead, and got the Hyuuga lower cast to join them)

(Look he wants to reform the government, right? Ok so why SHOULDNT he support an attempt to rip it up by the roots?? The Uchiha want equality but Tora wants reformation. They do not know what they just let into their homes.)

What the fuck did I come here to talk about again?

Right, sorry, Hokage Tora

Uhhhh pivoting again here we go ->

So Kakashi is Hokage!!! And he !! Wants !! Out !!!

Tora is a very very clear contender for "the next Hokage", even early on in Kakashi's career. He's basically the guy who MADE Kakashi Hokage (both arranging it and forcing him to accept) and most important people know it.

I'm ngl I kind of don't know how exactly we'd get to hokage Tora.

Maybe Kakashi is temporarily taken out of commission and he's just the obvious replacement. Maybe we do a proper Hokage switch and promote him when Kakashi got the job in the original. Dunno! But Tora for Rokudaime all the way !!

If not Tora I think Rokudaime Neji could be suitably dramatic and fun. Also has similar themes of "rising from the lower ranks against the odds" and just in general tons of interesting implications both politically and like,, character interaction wise.

Everyone expects Tora for the next hokage but Tora decides he likes being the powerful guy in the shadows to a Hokage who knows both how to listen to him and how to lead with a strength and surety he can trust. And decides Neji is apparently that guy who has the leadership and wisdom he can trust.

Callback to the earlier moment where Neiji, voice cracking, goes "you don't even like me."

And Tora gives him a smirk and goes "I don't have to like you to want to see see how far you can go."

Mmmm actually I think I like that ending best, it has the most weight to me. Like, yeah Tora as Rokudaime is cool and a kind of ironic "full circle" moment, but Neji as Rokudaime has that gut punch energy that will leave your skin buzzing and your eyes tearing up with written right

Have to get going but I might try to draw that scene tommorow if I find the energy in me after work (doubtful tbh)

I love a good call back through dialogue in different character defining moments that leave you pointing at the screen shrieking "HE SAID THE THING!!"

[hopeworth]

so funny that out of all the hokage (before naruto) the one who acted the most out love, who let their feelings overrule their duty, is hiruzen of all people.

[hellcifrogs]

if it's the student's stundent's AU, and anko is teaching sasuke, I assume shizune is teaching sakura. but who's a student of jiraiya to tech naruto? Nagato? Konan? Jiraiya's kinda out of students...

Heheheh Yes exactly! 💖

[sanjiaftersex]

no matter how many years pass i can never come to terms with the amount of pain and anguish the konoha mfs put naruto through i wish he blew that shitty place up

[greenbeen-with-an-e]

I just saw a person say that "naruto (the character) has no depth and is very cliche and predictable"

...

...

...

Ugh.

Aren't you people tired of being completely incorrect? Like genuinely? If you think naruto has no depth and complexity as a character then it simply proves to me that you have no analytical skills.

In comparison to, say, sasuke - it may seem as though naruto is more one dimensional. HOWEVER, the reason why it seems this way is because naruto is a little more subtly written.

When it comes to sasuke we see him; facing his abusers (danzo and a1p itachi) in the name of justice & emotional developments that are easy to understand because sasuke reacts to abuse in a way that makes sense to most. Sasuke haters (the braindead) aside.

Naruto on the other hand? We never see him face his abusers (the people of the hidden leaf) & his emotional developments are overlooked by the audience in favour of grand, shonen-esque fight scenes (i.e. the LoW arc. We see naruto maturing and developing his ninja way due to haku (character development??) but this is overlooked by many for some reason), etc. But no, you think that because naruto is a happy go-lucky 'idiot' there is no room for any other character traits.

A lot of his character is built around the neglect he faces as a child. In og naruto, we are introduced to a loud mouthed, annoying, attention seeking brat. AND THIS MAKES SENSE! Naruto has never received positive attention in his LIFE (bar the third's very much occasional visit) so of course he is going to go out of his way to get some - negative or not. So he is loud so people will look at him. He is prankster so people can laugh with him instead of at him. He's an optimistic smile-freak in order to hide the very real anger and misery he feels. Do you think it is a coincidence that kishi choose for naruto, a repressed young boy, to only release the power of the nine tails when extremely angry, fearful or otherwise I'm distress? No. It's a direct reflection of naruto's own emotional toil.

Who has the most attention and respect in the village? The hokage. What does naruto want most in the world atp? Respect and attention. So what does naruto want to be? Hokage. But when naruto was facing dark naruto when training with bee - he acknowledges that he still feels resentment and anger towards the village for how they treated him. He got everything he wanted, he got the respect, he got the attention. And yet, deep down, he wasn't happy with it. Because being so socially outcasted his whole life leave a toll of you. Leaves you with psychological issues that follows you for a long time.

This doesn't even mention the dehumanisation that naruto goes though throughout the series - even in shippuden, though this is more unintentional by the surrounding characters atp- due to him being a jinchuuriki. A literal weapon of state. An oppressed minority who were being hunted down and slaughtered by the akatsuki in their own villages. How does this demonstrate a lack of nuance? A lack of complexity? It doesn't. You only extrapolate surface level ideas from a text and call it a day.

This isn't even touching the bond between sasuke and naruto, yknow, the most developed and emphasised relationship in the entire manga? The relationship that is the key to understanding both characters, their emotions, their mental state and character decisions? But anyway. That's a WHOLEEEE other post for a whole nother day

[bonefall]

naruto as a whole is a fucking mess and i say thisas somebody whos read the entireseries 3 times over. “naruto is going to change the system! haha teehee never mind hes not doing anytning about the child soldiers and slave castes and the genocides.” “sasuke can be upset at his brother for committing a genocide but actually genocide against an oppressed bloodline is good if theyre getting uppity and its sanctioned by the government and also have a genetic predisposition to be evil so he should just get over it and be okay with it” “sakura needs to stop obsessing over a guy whos not even interested and become strong for her own sake. actually shes a housewife now”

kishimoto im going to blow you up with my mind

YOU GET IT

For real though I think what they did with Sasuke's arc was one of the most baffling fucking things I've ever seen. "Actually. Your brother who carried out a genocide loved you :( he only put you in the Torment Nexus for several days because uhhh he wanted you to hate him and not find out about the government who ordered it. Everything he ever did was actually to protect you. And Uchihas are actually kinda rotten anyway so it's good an entire GROUP OF PEOPLE died. Don't think about any babies or children who were also slaughtered btw uhh nope all of them were bad."

Sasuke: "Yes I understand. I will now rule the world through fear. Actually nvm Naruto won our fight so, my philosophy is gone now."

Thank goodness that Evil Sasuke killed the three Bad Government Officials before that point, though. We had this whole theme going about toxic structures, cycles of abuse, and how oppressive regimes can propagate themselves even when a leader is well-meaning... but, like, Naruto REALLY wants to be Hokage, so actually if you just kill these Three Bad Governors it's gonna be fine.

There is no need for systemic change. Slave castes and child soldiers are fine. It's ok as long as the president is blonde :)

[maireyart]

Kakashi gets out of paperwork…but he has to deal with Obito’s attention being too caught up in politics to notice Kakashi’s efforts to get Obito to notice him. Just more encouragement to make Naruto ready to take the hat. C’mon, Naruto, stop chasing after Sasuke and understand council logic already! The Romudaime would like to bone his own Uchiha in peace for once.

Art Request #6 (A possible sequel to Art Request #4). "his own Uchiha"… "in peace"... suuuuure 😆 long romantic walks away from everyone

This is my most cynical comic ever xD ♪ Bonnie Tyler in the background: "It's a heartache ~ Nothing but a heartache ~ Love him 'til your arms break ~ Then he lets you down" 😩

[sinnbaddie]

Fugaku wasn’t the best father, but no one will ever convince me that Minato of all people is a better father than him

[internal-ethics]

Hashirama heard Sasuke say he will let the tailed beasts burn RIGHT after Hashirama talked to him.

[lizajane2]

I'd hate for this thing to be the last face I ever see before dying and suffer in its domain for all eternity. Orochimaru was lucky.

[woodblxssomcrowned]

.