#and over time it becomes real friendship bc you are bonded by a common interest

[fiercestpurpose]

I love when two people who like are mostly indifferent to each other make a promise to always be there for each other and come to love each other completely. I love the idea that love is a choice that you make.

[doubledyke]

Now asking: how do you think would be Edd's relationship with the kids post-BPS, who seems to be the least commented and speculated. In the show proper we see the kids like and tolerate Edd the most and Edd is fairly nice and gentle to them, but he never seemed that interested on making friends with them compared to Eddy or even Ed. I guess every one in cul-de-sac living in peace always had been Edd's dream, but he don't seem to have so much in common with them nevertheless. I guess he could form a genuine, close bond with Nazz, Jimmy (and who know, Sarah), but his relationship with Rolf and Jonny always is somewhere between either being ''neutral friendly'' or just undefined. Ideas?

(Unpopular headcanon: I think would be really funny if Kevin and Eddy ultimately perceive how much in common they do have, would get closer and closer, and become best friends... and Edd would be somewhat jealous or resented of this, like shovelchin had kind of ''stole'' his best friend. Quite unlikely, but a really funny scenary on my mind).

yeah i personally don't think edd has much interest in being friends with most of the other kids on any meaningful level. he and jimmy's friendship could very well continue to grow after bps, but i don't see him making an effort to hang out with kevin, jonny, rolf, sarah, etc. he and rolf would be semi-friends because he's intrigued by rolf's culture and rolf has always been pretty decent to the eds. plus he's good friends with ed. jonny is also ed's buddy but edd still finds jonny kind of unbearable and keeps his distance. edd and kevin have their own drama (see below) and don't get along, and he flat out just doesn't like sarah. but of course he's very personable when eddy drags him along to the occasional shindig.

he and may are friendly, again, mostly because of her relationship with ed. he and marie strike up a conversation when he notices that her interest in him has significantly diminished. edd (being the snob he is) is surprised to find that she's really smart and funny oh and gay. he's possibly the first person she tells bc she knows he's a good guy. lee on the other hand, doesn't trust him as far as she can throw him and thus does not like him.

edd and nazz flirt back and forth for a long time and eventually date in high school. my own hcs about it are still sort of being developed but i for sure think they'd date and possibly maintain or rekindle a friendship after they breakup. eddy doesn't care!!!!.... 😐 he just thinks it's funny that-

kevin and eddy do have stuff in common but not so much that i see them building a real friendship over it- certainly not long-term. eddy might end up redirecting his admiration for bro onto kevin after bps bc he does still crave that sweet validation from someone (older?) who he sees as cool, well-liked, masculine, has a giant chin, etc. he'd be disappointed again when being friends w kevin doesn't live up to his overly idealized expectations. during the time that they're being weirdly pally, edd is on standby waiting for the other shoe to drop. he just hates to say "i told you so", but does he really?

kevin revokes eddy's dork status and invites him to the get-togethers. at first it's out of pity for what he witnessed but he's shocked when eddy turns out to be fun to be around. eddy's not really interested in the things that kevin is (bmx, monster trucks, 60 minutes) but pretends to be so that he can fit in. and get jawbreakers.

but that's exhausting and they start to grow apart when eddy gets too comfortable and starts letting the less palatable parts of his personality come through, namely his irritability and bluntness. by high school they're on not-so-great terms again, in part due to the whole edd and nazz thing really pissing kev off. he expects eddy to do something about it, "tell double dickweed to stay away from nazz" type stuff.

[rubiatinctorum]

i think a lot of people could be more socially connected, accomplished, and have a better self concept if community-building (especially online) were focused more on shared hobbies, talents, areas of expertise or interest, and connections rather than primarily merely signifying as being a member of an in-group through nature or presentation. It seems like a lot of online communities tend to value 'what you are' these days over 'what you choose to be' and as someone whose primary forms of identification when someone asks to know about me are based on my hobbies, interests, and what i trained in, I feel like it's awkward to be in spaces where none of that matters because people want fixed identity signifiers instead.

Like, great and all if people will like me because I'm bisexual, or neurotic, or a woman, or whatever, but at the end of the day, I didn't really decide that, and I'd much rather be part of in-groups and make connections for what I decide to do and love to do (ex: groups of writers and knitters, where we can bond over shared interests and actions), rather than just because I organically signify an identity that gives me some kind of positive aspect to the online in-group. I was a dice roll when I got random number generated onto this planet, and that's not what I want to lead with or be primarily cared about for.

Maybe it's weird of me bc I'm very neutral on a lot of things that are very important to identity in spaces like Tumblr. I'm generally a couple percentage points positive of ambivalent on my sexuality, gender, body type, etc the way I am about, say, my hair colour or how tall I am. Therefore, I don't really want to advertise myself that way. Obviously, in real life, certain things become more important depending on the time, place, and situation. My orientation will be a lot more important, say, when I'm trying to rizz someone up (actually, when I'm yearning over an instagram photo of my engaged crush) or at the Pride Parade more than it will when I'm scrolling through shitposts on tumblr. Similarly, my body type will be more important when I'm trying to find my damn size in the store when I'm looking to buy a sweater. Personally, I think they're terrible building blocks for making connections online if I'm not online dating or buying clothes. I understand this is not how a lot of people feel.

I think, mostly, though, it feels very reductive to lead socially in this way in general spaces not based around these concepts. It feels like a slide into valuing people for the natural traits they are born with/develop because having the right fixed identity is given priority and moral status, and that just feels kind of uncomfortable to me. I don't want to evaluate the social desirability of others by traits they can't control, nor do I want that to be the main thing I know people for. I don't want to present the idea to someone, "your art, your music, your sports, your work, the things you spend your days and therefore your life doing fundamentally do not matter to me as long as you are [insert identity here], which is what really matters."

There are times and places for identity-based in-groups as one's main form of representing themselves in that time and place. I don't think that's necessarily everywhere, all the time. And I don't know if most people would feel less alone and isolated if they started building connections in a way more aligned with having something chosen in common, but I can certainly say that when I've been socially connected with people who share the same hobby, or interest, or job as me, friendships feel more actualized and we've turned those shared things into experiences worth remembering more often, even through the internet. Meanwhile, the people who associated with me for my fixed characteristics did not value me as a person the moment I couldn't perform that identity for them.

[mimikoolover]

I agree with your point on the vminkook dynamic either skewing towards vmin, jikook or taekook. I have noticed that even if all three are together, there’ll usually be a duo that’ll dominate the conversation, even if the duos are interchanging throughout.

I do think that’s because all three are quite distinct people with distinctly different interests. In the earlier days, they were the token youngsters who wreaked havoc and were always hyper. As the years have gone by, they’ve matured and found different interests. You can see how this reflects in the distinctiveness of their solo music.

I do agree that Tae might’ve insisted on this trip to hang out more with Jimin in particular. He was so attuned to him the whole time, it was really sweet.

Vmin don’t have a lot in common objectively but, there’s this connection between them that I really don’t see in any other Jimin duo. They started off as typical teenage boys to then young men, rough housing and insulting eachother. As the years have gone by, yes they aren’t attached at the hip anymore but, they seem to just click together no matter how much time they spend apart. Their relationship has mellowed over time and there’s a comfortable vibe that’s settled over them. They’re a lot gentler in the way they interact and speak with one another. I really love their bond and the subtle way it’s matured. I’ve been in the fandom for quite a while so, I understand how newer fans might not have picked up on this. That was a bit of a tangent but, I just wanted to emphasis how special vmin is. I’ve seen way too many people shitting on their friendship because of stupid ship discourse.

I think having Tae there, no matter how involved he was in the activities, was a good thing. I think jikook’s dynamic becomes so much more noticeable when it’s contrasted with their interactions with other members in the same situations. You can really see how different they are when they interact with Tae vs eachother.

it's nice to hear this perspective and I loved your description of vmin. they really are distinctly different people although I'm not that certain on them maturing too much😂obviously they have but just because of their job fame and money I wonder how much real life 'normal' experiences they had where they would have matured more. but either way I think vmin is interesting to me because it does highlight the differences between jikook vs any other pairing even just in the way that if vmin are soulmates then what are jikook who seem even closer than vmin now? you have jimin with his same age friend then you have jimin pining for jk in 2016. and if you already have a soulmate do you necessarily want another one or would you pine for someone else? that to me was always interesting cause you had vmin as soulmates but then jimin was insisting jungkook choose him for everything and love him so yeah. I have to say when jikook became closer to each other they kind of dropped tae at the time, in my honest opinion. with vmin it probably wasn't as severe as between taekook bc their 'base level of soulmates' but jikook also have different needs in terms of tae loving to be popular, having loads of friends, being a social butterfly whereas jungkook for sure and jimin as well prefer having select long term loyal close friends. idk what I'm saying at this point but I also do not enjoy people shitting on vmin or taekook for that matter because they all have their unique relationships which are precious in their own ways.

[silverbastardgoldenfool]

Realm of the Quarantine Reread End-of-Book Questionnaire: Assassin’s Apprentice

Any differences between your first/previous reading experience and this one?

Uhhhhh yep!! I can’t even believe how different it was. Every scene has taken on an entirely different colour and flavour in my memory. I skimmed far too much the first time, yes, but also I just went into it with the wrong framework. I think I’ve mentioned this before but my mum recommended me these books on the basis of my love of A Song of Ice and Fire. She directly compared them and said how similar they were. Because of RotE’s length I had been putting it off for years, and only finally picked up Assassin’s Apprentice because I was itching to do an ASOIAF reread but was (and am) trying to wait until Winds of Winter to do it. 

So you can imagine the difficulty settling into a book like Assassin’s Apprentice when you’re expecting Game of Thrones. I remember my overall impression on my first read being that it was a pretty standard fantasy novel with the only really exceptional thing about it being the characters and their relationships. Characters are always my top priority so it was enough to keep me invested and progressing onto the next book and the rest of the series, but I did so not having absorbed nearly as much as I should have from the first book in the series.

Now, just from revisiting that first book, my understanding of Fitz and the world he operates in has exponentially increased and I know that will transform my experience of every book going forward. I really made sure to make myself slow down and read every word; absorb descriptions and just be in each moment without racing to the next one. Overall this book (and all the Fitz books) are much more concerned with the human condition and the effects of abuse and trauma and deep loneliness than being an epic fantasy. In fact it barely reads like fantasy at all; it’s incredibly grounded and focused. Of course the elements are there, but while Assassin’s Apprentice may not be as subversive as the rest of the series, it is certainly not generic fantasy. This book just feels alive to me now in a way it didn’t before against the rest of the series. I can regard it as a beautiful piece of the puzzle in its own right instead of just the setup. I wanna reiterate I always really liked Assassin’s Apprentice but it just paled in comparison to my unholy obsession with the rest of it. Idk this reread just really shifted a lot of things into perspective for me and I’m excited!!

Something you can’t believe you forgot

So so much but most ridiculous GALEN IS QUEEN DESIRE’S BASTARD am I dumb??? I didn’t even remember until it was explicitly stated lol

Favourite character introduction moments/scenes

It’s gotta be a tie between the Fool, Kettricken and Patience (realising there is a common theme here of Fitz making an idiot of himself). I genuinely was laughing so hard when Fitz is like, actively making himself smaller and so pleased with himself trying to help the Fool, and of course the Fool’s iconic “listen you idiot” ugh it’s just chef’s kiss baby, that’s what we in the biz call a meet-cute! (I know they have seen each other before, but this is the first time the Fool talks to Fitz). Then of course we have Kettricken who poisons Fitz at their first meeting, and Patience who Fitz continuously embarrasses himself in front of before even realising who she is. The fact that all three of these people end up being some of Fitz’s only genuinely loving relationships makes it even better.

Favourite character arcs

I think I’ve gotta go with Verity and Burrich. Verity goes from kind of a bloke’s bloke (he was so different in the beginning than I remembered!) to being a proper King-in-Waiting. He is self-sacrificial but not for pride; he genuinely cares deeply for his people, as a whole and as individuals, and will do anything it takes to protect them. He is far from perfect, and he could have done a lot more for Fitz when he was younger, but once Fitz is in his eyeline and he is confronted with the life the boy has led he seems suitably shamed and tries to do his best for him. He’s a good boy and I love him!

Burrich of course is just. unlucky. His health deteriorates due to injuries. He gets saddled with some kid and is burdened to bring him up to an impossible standard he has set himself (to not shame a man he has an impossibly high opinion of). He’s deprived of a job he loved and was good at, and most importantly he’s deprived of his boyfriend I mean lover I mean “master”.

His arc is not a happy one at all but it is compelling, and I can’t help but love him and feel for him despite also disagreeing with him on almost everything :)

Favourite quote/s

Unfortunately I don’t have any tabs atm so I couldn’t really keep track, but my heart exploded when Fitz said to the Fool after going into his room, “I wish I had a place that were as much me as that place is you.”

Favourite relationships

Fitz/Fool obviously. Even though they don’t have that many interactions in this book I loved every single one of them. The Fool volunteering to care for Smithy after Fitz has endured a long day of horrendous abuse is just!!!!! Kindness! What a concept! I could really see why they develop such a deep bond so quickly.

Fitz/Burrich is just so real and so compelling and it hurts me but I love it. Fitz/Chade breaks my heart bc Chade is manipulating his way into Fitz’s heart - I think without realising it a lot of the time bc he is lonely too, but the power imbalance is not okay when he is the centre of Fitz’s world for a long time and the closest thing he has to a friend. Knowing how Chade behaves not too much later just makes it even worse when he is so nice in this book because it just shows why Fitz has such a hard time being his own person and saying no to Chade ever.

Fitz/Verity for obvious reasons. Fitz/Hands!! They’re cute but it makes me sad that Hands betrays him in AQ. Weirdly I liked Fitz/Molly way more this time but more their friendship than anything. And next is Royal Assassin and their deeply toxic romance soooooo.

And Fitz and his puppies BUT WE DON’T TALK ABOUT THAT.

Favourite setting

Do yourself a favour and read the description of the Mountain Kingdom and specifically the palace. It is STUNNING and something I completely skimmed over the first time cos I’m a dumb idiot bitch I could have been picturing a city of huge colourful tulips all this time but fuck me I guess!!

Favourite chapter

As a rereader I think I’ve gotta say chapter one. There’s just so much to pick apart all crammed into one chapter. It still holds a lot of mystery even when you’ve read the entire series.

Most loved character

At this point I’ve gotta say Fitz. That’s who my heart is with during this book and he NEEDS IT

Most hated character

Okay I found Regal a much better villain on this read and hated him A LOT but whomst I despised even more w the very fibre of my being was Galen bitch disgusting!!!!!! Verity was so like, smug?? when he killed him and it was so satisfying. It’s what she deserves!!

Raise your hand if you’ve been personally victimised by Robin Hobb (most heartbreaking and/or visceral moments)

Literally this whole book was so harsh and I was perpetually emo throughout but off the top of my head, Fitz’s depressive episode after Shrewd and Chade test his loyalty fricking broke me, as did the entirety of Galen’s abuse/training; since I was paying so much more attention this time it hit a lot harder that he is an absolute textbook abuser and the psychological torment he inflicts on Fitz is just. deeply upsetting to say the least. It really got under my skin.

Details, observations, spoilery notes made with the benefit of the full picture

Okay this is where I just dump all the notes I took while reading that don’t fit anywhere else. It’ll be long lol so strap in.

- It’s never not funny to me that Narrator Fitz comes across as like a hundred years old when in actuality he is like twenty. Also that he looks back on himself with such a sense of wisdom and superiority, yet we know there is dumbarsery aplenty to come. Amazing.

- I’ve never really registered that for the first six years of his life Fitz had a mother who loved him and I don’t know how to feel about that

- REVELATION THAT SEEMS REALLY OBVIOUS IN HINDSIGHT: Fitz most likely only spoke Chyurdan when he was abandoned, which would have played a huge role in why he was not only quiet but unresponsive to what was happening around him. He probably didn’t even understand that he wasn’t going to see his mother again until much later, and he didn’t know how to ask questions. When he goes to the Mountain Kingdom and Kettricken comments that he speaks Chyurdan like someone remembering the language he doesn’t comment on it, so it’s likely that future Fitz doesn’t register that he didn’t always speak Six Duchies(?). He mentions in the narration that the memory of being abandoned is incredibly stark but not necessarily reliable, and possibly shaped by the Skill, which to me opens up the possibility that his memory is essentially auto-translating for him things he didn’t understand at the time. We also know that at the time of writing this he’s given up his memories of his mother etc. up to the stone dragon, so obviously his recollections of these traumatic events are going to be warped by that. Anyway thanks to my sister for pointing this out and being much smarter than me.

- According to Fitz’s grandfather, Chivalry always knew about Fitz. Don’t know how trustworthy a man desperate to yeet his grandson out of his care is but there ya go.

- Weird and hilarious that Shrewd tries to see Fitz on the day he arrives but then just like. What? Forgets about him? For years? lol

- Chade literally tells Fitz that he is a king’s man now and that’s the most important thing about him YIKES

- Chade becomes the closest thing Fitz has to a friend for quite a long time and that is fucking depressing

- It’s interesting that Chade had to be convinced to teach Fitz. It’s hinted at that there was an ~incident~ the last time they tried to train someone, followed by a long period of Chade being left to rot in the walls.

- Not to be out here diagnosing fictional characters but like.Fitz. Literally has depression.

- Fitz having to turn down Fedwren’s offer of apprenticing for him is so sad. It’s the life Fitz should have had.

- The Fool’s non-binary gender is mentioned as early as Chapter Nine! (Published in 1995! We have no choice but to stan!)

- “So quickly we were all made accomplices in our own degradation.” OOF.

- I really realised this time that the reason Fitz seems so shit at things he trained his whole life for later is because all that training was interrupted by many months of isolation, deprivation and abuse. All at the age of like 13-14. He got out of the habit of subconsciously acting in a way that Burrich or Chade would approve of. For a long time the only person he needed approval from was Galen, and he became completely single-minded about it because that was his means of survival. And you don’t just recover from that - especially since neither Chade or Burrich would give him the time of day for an extended period *after* his training was done. When Chade did finally talk to him again it wasn’t to recommence training really; he just gave him a bunch of tasks to do. By the time Fitz got to the Mountain Kingdom he was completely out of practice, and still managed pretty bloody well in spite of it.

- Kind of related to the last point: I love that while Fitz isn’t a savant at anything he’s a pretty realistic jack of all trades. He not only has an aptitude for learning almost any skill or subject but a genuine broad curiosity too. It’s one of the few things that is just him, ya know? It’s just his personality and something he can find joy in, even if it does also factor into his being used by others.

- Imagine being Burrich and finding out that your son thought you were a dog murderer for like ten years lol ouch

- Fitz thinks about the Fool soooo often in the Mountain Kingdom, pointing out things that remind him of him, or things he would like. It’s v soft tbh I love them so much!!

- Another dumb thing I forgot is that Regal is convinced that Shrewd had Fitz poison his mother to death, which adds a rather important layer onto his motivations lol

Anyone doing a reread feel free to fill this out! You don’t have to use the tag :)

[theshinsun]

1. as far as im concerned Kagami never left at the end of last game, that was an extended dream sequence... 2. i also totally agree with you that Kagami is prolly vers, if anything, and it was also MY PET PEEVE when people pinholed him into being a forever bottom at the peak of knb hype. 3. you keep teasing your long list of ships for Aomine PLEASE do him for the character thing lol. So far all your opinions are sending me into a realm of GOOD VALID VIBES

Omg thank you!! (I agree end of Last Game is not canon… or if it is he came right back the next year or smth I refuse to accept he just left forever. And I’m really glad to see the problem of Uke™ Kagami seems to be in decline these days… fewer people are writing for knb in general, but those that are seem to have an idea what a real gay relationship is or at least make him a fucking person and not a walking stereotype, and that’s encouraging to see). 

Also thanks so much for sending Aomine! …Strap in for this character essay tho I’ve been known to never shut up about this boy once you get me started.

How I feel about this character

I honestly… can’t even explain it anymore or even try to justify it but Aomine has had a bigger impact on me than, I think, any other character I’ve seen to date. I don’t even know what it is, I do relate to him (and project on him *cough*) but like, there are other characters out there that I have more in common with, and I like his whole arc and aesthetic but it’s nothing revolutionary, so… your guess is as good as mine. 

Whatever it is, I’ve been obsessed with this guy for over half a decade, and lately even as the KNB fandom falls into decline, my feelings are not they’re just getting stronger. His development over the course of the series is one of the most satisfying things I’ve ever seen, (that one bit at the end of the Touou/Seirin game with “I want to practice” and his later conversation with Kuroko hit me in the fucking chest every time), and I love how even though he’s portrayed as cold, uncaring and rude, it’s still understood (at least by anyone with some nuance) that that’s not what he’s supposed to be like, and underneath the distant, kind of dickish front, he’s hurting a lot. I’ve talked about the degree to which he cares about people before too, but I still have to give a mention to the ferocious level of protectiveness this guy has for his friends. I could go on about him for ages, tbh, and maybe someday I will write a for-real structured essay to try to get it out there, but the bottom line is I love this character, I have for a long time, and likely will continue to do so long into the future.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

Okay here we go… I ship this guy extremely liberally, even with people he’s never interacted with (hell you could mention any random character and I could probably see my way clear to shipping them with him somehow, I’ll still try to explain my logic if I can). Prepare yourself.

Kagami (of course, AoKaga is the OTP and definitely the one I’ve devoted the most time to, they’re just the best together I’ll never get tired of seeing them figure their shit out over and over)

Kuroko (I may be AoKaga on main, but I’m still such a sucker for the tragic romance between these two, and sometimes it just hits me over the head like a sledgehammer how much I love their relationship. I’ve also got a lot of feelings for AoKagaKuro, they’re such a perfect trio and I need to invest more of my time in the OT3)

Kise (I was a bit late to the game on AoKise, but I definitely see it now. I love their dynamic and how imperfect their relationship would probably be, the complexity of it. sign me up)

Momoi (I don’t see a lot of AoMomo love anymore, but I’ve still got a soft spot for it, childhood friends are my weakness okay)

Midorima (they’re so different but that’s what makes it interesting, and I love the idea of neither of them knowing how to show/tell the other their feelings and being awkward stubborn shits together)

Murasakibara (they almost never interact but I just think they’d have such a soft cuddly relationship and be really chill together… lazy Sunday mornings sleeping in and hanging all over each other that kinda thing)

Akashi (kinda same as Akashi/Kagami, I think the difference between polished upper-class Akashi and scrappy city boy Aomine would be hella interesting… though I’ve also got some angst ideas for them as a couple, after how things went down at Teiko… abandonment and whatnot)

Imayoshi (I got pulled into this ship HARD by Lysapadin’s A Firm Hand series and now it’s no longer a guilty pleasure ship and is actually something I’ll talk about in the open, just… the power dynamic fuck me up)

Sakurai (I fuckin love the idea of an anxious Sakurai crushing hard on Aomine and not knowing how to tell him but when he finally plucks up the courage and prepares himself for imminent death Aomine’s actually pretty chill about it… plus they’d be adorable together tbh)

Wakamastu (you know it’s gotta be enemies to lovers. not just bc I’m intrigued by the love/hate relationship itself but if you look past the attitude issues these two would actually probably have a lot in common. also I’m really interested in how their dynamic might change with Wakamatsu being captain and all)

Susa (idk but there’s one throwaway line in season 3 where Imayoshi says about Aomine “actually maybe he likes you” and that’s enough for me. bring me the rarest rarepair my body is ready)

Kasamatsu (it wasn’t supposed to be SERIOUS but they got me. That moment in the Touou/Kaijo game where Aomine helps him up and “you’ve really done it now, senpai” is legit, plus these two would be such a good-looking couple, honestly.)

Mibuchi (give me the pretty boys. I have no excuse for this except maybe their interactions in my own damn fic again)

Nebuya (sometimes shipping can be as simple as hey I want them to bang right. also they’re both humongous dorks under their respective rough exteriors and I love them)

Moriyama (they bond over liking girls at first and then they’re simultaneously like wait a minute… more Touou/Kaijo ships pls)

Nijimura (I have this idea of them reuniting late into/after high school and Aomine still calls him captain out of habit and Nijimura’s like relieved and impressed to see how he’s developed since the mess at Teiko)

Himuro (they Never interact but they’d be so Petty and Snarky sign me up)

Haizaki (twisted, but I’m interested it’d be so unhealthy and awful bring it)

Hanamiya (even more twisted tbh but there is that moment where Aomine confronts him… and I’m here for hate sex just as much as your typical romance)

Inoue (who, you ask? I know he’s such a side character and no one remembers him, but he’s a big reason for Aomine’s downfall at Teiko and they seemed to be buddies before that, I’d be interested in some kind of reconciliation between them, or a romance, ya know whatever works)

And then we get into crossover territory… MOST of these are not my fault they’re just things I’ve seen and adopted for myself

Kuroo Tetsurou (someone made a moodboard for them, and now I can’t stop thinking about them in a relationship, like damn… it’d be such a beautiful mess I wanna see more of it)

Oikawa Tooru (I’ve seen art, and also the light. These two damaged angsty prodigies, one sharp as a whip the other dumb as bricks, but both of them sassy and nerdy as hell. I could see myself getting addicted to this ship if I took the time to write it out, and I just might)

Yamazaki Sousuke (can’t lie, they look good together. I’ve seen more than one art piece of them interacting and I have a Mighty Need.)

Matsuoka Rin (angry lonely talented boys finding solace in each other’s company? you know that’s my shit. also shark teeth and cop AUs hells yeah.) 

Tanaka Ryuunosuke (I don’t know where the fuck this idea came from but I thought of Tanaka trying to pick a fight with “shitty boi” Aomine while in Tokyo and then losing his shit and here we are)

Terushima Yuuji (this one is purely physical… they pretty, I have no other reason, but also this absolute fuckboy, these two would be such a train wreck and I’m here for it tbh)

Yachi Hitoka (okay picture this Giant Terrifying basketball player trying to be less giant and terrifying to tiny shy Yachi and tell me you don’t just want to see that happen. I get Legosi/Haru vibes.)

I’ll spare you the rest of the ideas I’ve tossed around, because past this point it becomes pure crack (if it hasn’t already) but you get the idea. Throw a character my way and I can probably talk myself into it that’s the power this guy has over me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My non-romantic OTP for this character

K considering the List… it shouldn’t be surprising that I also consider this person a romantic candidate, but you know when it comes to non-romantic OTP it’s gotta be Momoi. Platonic or romantic, the way she’s stuck with him all those years and his obvious protectiveness and love for her and how (even though he claims to like big tits) he never even once starts to objectify her in any way, it’s so important to me. Momoi is Aomine’s redeeming factor when he’s at his worst, and she goes to bat for him even while he’s actively trying to shake her off and still tries to protect and help him when he refuses to accept it, even when it means they fight. (Also Kuroko saying “Aomine’s probably looking for you” after their argument puts to mind Aomine running through the rain calling Momoi’s name and that is just… pure). These two have the kind of unshakable long-standing friendship that’ll probably last them the rest of their lives, and no matter what context or form it takes, I can’t get enough of it. 

My unpopular opinion about this character

I’ve harped on enough about the fandom’s portrayal of Aomine as a one-note asshole who doesn’t care before, so let’s see if I can change gears a little bit here. 

I honestly don’t agree with… the persistent idea people seem to have of Aomine being a narcissist or obsessed with himself? Like yeah, he’s self-absorbed and egotistical, no question, this is not to say he hasn’t got those flaws and others besides… but that’s not the same as being like, physically attracted to yourself. Part of me suspects it was a “the only one who can fuck me is me” joke taken too far, so that now the idea of Aomine being in love with himself is just ingrained into the fanon culture, but if you look at the show itself, personally I don’t see it. If anything, I would think he’d have some self-loathing issues to work through (and that’s part of the reason he gave for skipping practice, he doesn’t want to be the way he is, and specifically says he doesn’t want to increase the difference between him and everyone else). But hey, that’s just my opinion. I’ll get off my soapbox now.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

I mean he says he and Kagami are postponing their match, after their brief one-on-one when he gives him the shoes, and then we never get to see it… Tbh just more street ball with this guy would be great, since it’s what his whole style is based around. Even if he’s just playing by himself… or hell, maybe since he thinks no one at the high school level can beat him, we could get a scene of him trying to go up against adults. Maybe he still beats them and his despair worsens after that, but then it’d have more meaning, and at least we’ll have seen that he’s tried and is not just giving up before he’s seen all of what he could be up against in the future. Plus, picturing Aomine going five-on-one like Haizaki did against grown-ups and still slaughtering them is something I’d pay money to see. 

[enkelimagnus]

🔥 about relationships in SH bc I'm emo and I really like reading about your thoughts/opinions.

Okay this is going to be a BIG answer because, I dunno what you mean by “relationships”

Romantic Relationships

When it comes to romantic relationships on the show, I find them relatively nice. If you forget that from 1x01 to 3x22 (year later not included) there’s maybe 3 months, and that as a result, Magnus and Alec got married 2 months into their relationship, Clary and Jace have dated for a month, and Simon and Izzy 3 days, of course. 

The romances are interesting. Though some parts are badly written (in season 3, every thing that Malec has a couple gains is done through Magnus as a person losing something), I find Malec especially very interesting. Clace has also a good dynamic, with a true development from Jace’s character, which is very interesting to see. And the third ship I’d say is probably in the top three writing wise: Saia. Saia is amazing, for some of the same reasons that Malec and Clace are, actually. Saia, Clace and Malec all have one interesting in common. Healing. 

Jace, Clary, Simon, Maia, Magnus and Alec all have an healing journey as they go through their relationship. They all grow, and heal old traumas and pains, and I find it very beautiful and comforting to me. Victims of abuse like Jace, Maia and Magnus finding trust and love and support and being able to open themselves to vulnerability again? That’s GORGEOUS. 

Family dynamics

I enjoy the family dynamics a lot too. Especially the Lightwoods. Though the Luke/Clary bond is amazing, it is often the only plot that Luke gets: something to do with saving Clary’s ass. And I find that sad. Luke tends to be only Clary’s dad, not his own character. 

You can have characters who put family first without it becoming their only personality trait. Because who is Luke if not someone’s dad? Maryse gets to have this growth, this enormous change in the way she portrays herself and the way she loves her children. Luke doesn’t get that. And you can probably peg this more on racism/people not knowing what to do with Luke, but it’s sad. 

As said before, I love the Lightwoods. I love the dynamic between Jace, Izzy and Alec, and the way Maryse, Max and Robert add to the trio. I find the maturing and the changes in that family the most interesting. And Izzy going from a daddy’s girl to a mommy’s girl is the best. 

Had it not been this outrageously incestuous, I would have enjoyed the Jonathan/Clary dynamic so much! I think there was a lot of wasted potential with Clary there, with the reasons behind her going dark. It’s a little too “the demon made me do it”. Too magic based, no matter what she says in 3x20. 

And of course the Asmodeus/Magnus relationship is GREAT. It’s one of the best and most fascinating parent/child relationships on this show, at least to me. There is such a history between those two, and a deep deep resemblance. it is BELIEVABLE that Asmodeus is Magnus’ son. 

They have a way of carrying themselves, a theatricality that is just similar. I love the way they move, and talk. Magnus gets some of that slow, deliberate diction sometimes, and I LOVE it. I love the feeling you get that Asmodeus raised Magnus. And I also love the enormous differences between them. It’s so GOOD. 

Ships (gonna go with canon ones here)

Malec

Obviously gotta start with Malec. The show wasn’t originally made for them. The show became theirs though, so easily. There’s gravity in that ship, and depth, and this sense of history-making. Not only in TV, but in the Shadow World. 

It’s far from perfect. Magnus gets the short end of the stick so very often, and the writing glosses over Alec’s flaws so often that it feels like they are actively trying to erase them. 

I very much dislike the way they went with Malec in season 3, even in 3A. It was just not what I wanted for them. Magnus losing his title, his magic, his home, all for Alec... this isn’t what i wanted. It’s what I got. 

And I got some very nice things with this. This building of them as a couple that happened, of them knowing each other’s habits and wearing each other’s clothing, and the wonderful, sweet domesticity of them. 

They are a ship that manages to be both extremely dramatic and extremely domestic at the same time. And it’s so nice to see, how complex it is. 

Also, like... Alec’s immortal. I’m not having it any other way. He deserves that. 

Clace

I don’t like Clace. I don’t think I ever have, and I don’t think I ever will. My dislike for Clace was born out of dislike for Jace, mostly, then was fueled by the way Clace fans tend to act.

I do get why it’s a good ship. I do get how nice it is for Jace to be able to be okay. Do I think it’s rushed? yes, of course it is, Jace deserves therapy but... yeah. 

Sizzy

Sizzy was built on friendship chemistry, addiction, and blaming Maia for taking care of her mental health. It was built out of nowhere in season 3, because the writers thought they needed to satisfy those who wanted to see them bang. I guess they are both hot and close enough to being white that it’s sexy. 

Simon/Maureen

Could have been very cute. That’s all? 

Meliorn/Izzy

In my top 3 Izzy ships. There is an understanding and comfort between these two, a deep caring, and just something that could have been so genuinely beautiful had it been given any chance at all. 

Climon

Cuter than Clace. They were sweet together, and honestly, I could have seen it become a real interesting ship had they been developed after the cute stage. These two share history, they share memories and interests, but they have this big break, when Simon became a vampire. It would have just been wonderful to truly see that history go further. 

Too bad it fell to both antisemitic tropes and the love triangle. 

Jocelyn/Luke

I don’t see the appeal to them? I think they don’t have much romantic chemistry at all. 

Izzy/Raphael

Canon them? Bad, worse than bad. It was horrible. Just something that was wrong on a lot of levels. 

I think it could be super interesting completely in another context. Especially in regards to Raphael being asexual and Izzy being a character known for being very sexual. 

Saia

Saia is just.... everything Sizzy wishes it was. It’s healthy, it’s sweet, it’s built on mutual understanding and trust. it’s built on two people finding each other. it’s built on two people who understand the other’s experience. Traumatic events and fear, anger and pain. it’s built on people who have the tools to build a future together. 

Saia is the kind of relationship you can see going far. They fit perfectly. They are different enough that it’s not like dating a copy of yourself. They are sweet, and fun, and they care about each other and RESPECT each other, and I love that about them. 

Saia is comfortable. It’s the kind of love that’s just... wholesome. That seems to be built from steady foundations. 

(yes I’m ignoring the hellfire that is 3B). 

Marcian

Luke and Maryse. What can I say? These two kinda came out of nowhere but... it works. Luke appreciates Maryse for everything that she is. Strong, smart and beautiful. Something I think Robert didn’t appreciate enough. 

And Maryse trusts Luke. She cares about him. They went through similar things, they have shared past and shared regrets. I love that about them. That they get to build what they deserved to have in the first place. 

Heline

I don’t get it. The only reason they are together is because they were written to. They seem to have 0 stuff in common. But I guess I would know more if they were more than blank slates with “science one” and “combat one” written on them. 

aaaaand. think I’m done. 

[dragonlands]

Friendship vs queerbaiting

"Can we stop shipping all (m/m) friendships as romance?"

First of all, no. Why should we? Shipping is supposed to be fun, and we can ship whatever we want as long as the characters are fictional. With real people it's a little trickier but this is not about real people shipping so I'll leave it at that. People don't usually choose a ship, shipping happens a little like falling in love: we find ourselves attracted to the dynamic of certain characters and the ship just kind of happens.

Shipping is not activism, like people often remind here. We fans don't need to ship the ship with the most under represented dynamic, we should ship the ship that makes us happy. It's not homophobic if you don't ship the popular gay ship. Its not racist if you ship the main character with the white person instead of poc bc you feel like these two have a better dynamic. And so on. But I need to add here that if a queer/interracial couple is canon but you ship them in a straight/white relationship with someone else it's a little... questionable at least. It depends the dynamic and the history of these characters and so on, but I'm just saying that there are exceptions to the rule I just presented.

So, if you feel like friendships between two men are under represented you have no right to tell people they shouldn't ship it because you prefer their dynamic as something else than romantic. And also: where did the idea come that they are under represented? The sole reason why so many non canon ships are m/m friendships is because THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. Plus, all kinds of friendships are shipped, f/f and f/m too but they're much rarer in mainstream fiction which is why they are also less popular in fandom. If you think "Fandom only ships canonically straight white men", look at Clexa for example. They only had one season together, and it got to the top of tumblr's most shipped list immediately. Stormpilot is very popular and it's interracial while neither is white. Don't blame the fandom for something the creators are responsible for.

The idea that we shouldn't ship friendships tells something about how our society portrays romance - an instant connection, physical attraction, something that consumes your soul after the first glance and makes you leave everything, even your friends and family behind. As if you were ready to die for them after one conversation, one night together, sometimes even just one look. This doesn't sound healthy or even normal to me.

Romance and friendship are not mutually exclusive. Healthy romances are often build on friendship, and even if infatuation comes first and dating second, any couple who has been married for years will tell you that the secret to a happy marriage is being good friends too. Best friends, actually, since they have to spend most time together. Of course I'm not saying we shouldn't ship different kinds of dynamics, I enjoy love/hate relationships as much as the next person, but popular ships that are accused of queerbaiting are usually canonically close friendships.

Drawing a line between close friendship and queerbaiting can be tricky, I admit. Sometimes even if I do think something is queerbaiting I understand the opposite opinion, sometimes not. Often, the opposite argument is something like this: "Yes, they clearly do love each other very deeply, deeper than most friends, but that's because they're like brothers/siblings." And I'm like... no. I know brotherly love is a saying but it isn't really... a thing. For people who aren't actually brothers. Because there are two things that make people siblings: 1) Biology, as in they are genetically siblings. 2) They have been brought up as siblings, they have the same parents and have known each other since birth.

Often siblings are both, but there are adopted siblings, and biological siblings who haven't met each other before adulthood. So if you can't check either of these for your ship, it's not incestuous. No matter how brotherly you think their love is. Because yes, people can form strong bonds to people outside family, but even childhood friends don't have the experience that siblings have. They don't have the same parents and the same happy family memories or shared trauma. They've never had the kind of authority that a parent is, who is close for both and able to decide who's right about the fight and who gets a punishment, who gets the bigger cake slide etc. And when you're biologically related the biology actually affects your relationship: it's just part of surviving the natural selection that we protect those who are genetically like us. Also there's a natural repulsiveness towards our relatives which prevents us from getting mutant babies. These things obviously apply to adoptive siblings too, but not to "bros".

So if someone says that these two characters have a deep connection but it's brotherly, sure, they can think that, but they have no way of getting actual evidence for their claim. Whereas if I think some characters are in love I can present evidence. I obviously can't prove it unless it becomes canon, but I can make it pretty clear why I think so.

Now, I'm all for having male characters be close friends without it making them gay. We need to show that men should be able to talk about their emotions with each other, just like female friends do. It's proven by many studies that straigh men are likely to have their girlfriend/wife as their only emotional support, and that needs to change. Male friend supporting the other when he talks about his crush on a girl: hell yeah. Male friend supporting the other when their parent dies: hell yeah. Male friends talking about games and selfcare and literature and their interests just like female friends do: HELL YEAH! I would like to see male friendships where they need each other because they have shared interests and memories and because they can be open with each other. Being physically comfortable with each other. All that.

But, you see, most so called friendships that are popular as ships and accused of queerbaiting, are not what I just described. These friendships are codependent. If the other died or was taken away from the other the other wouldn't just be sad for a year or so, but they would lose their grip of life and themselves. They are contradictory, and the characters are bad at describing their feelings for each other, unaware whether the "friendship" is mutual, surprised when the other shows that they care. They are full of misunderstandings, and the narrative seems that there's something that they're going towards. Normal friendships are solid and stationary, and while they do change with time and circumstance, they're not constantly evolving as if what the people involved have right now is not what both want.

Friends have fights over petty things, and sometimes just can't be around each other. These characters usually fight - if they fight - because they leave things unsaid and the viewer is forced to think: what did they mean to say? There's tension, neither of them knows how to quite be around the other but they need them like they need air. It is sometimes even shown that even if the other is in a relationship with another person, they can't share the most important parts of their life with that person - they need their "friend" for that. As if love was just physical, no common interests or chemistry needed.

Obviously there will always be some things that can only be shared with a certain person and that person may not be your lover, but at least in my opinion it makes sense if your romantic partner is the one who gets you the most. Especially if the love is supposed to be ideal or even supported by the audience which mostly is the case in fictional romance. And if the "friends" have most in common with each other, have shared their most vulvenerable moments with each other and seem to have romantic chemistry to many of the viewers, why not make them a couple? Because they are both straight men? (Or women, but most often men since most main characters are men.)

The argument against queer ships is usually just "not everyone is gay". Yes, well, obviously not. Some people are straight, that's true. They don't feel attraction to the same sex even if their life depends of it (So I've heard. As a bisexual myself this sounds like a weird concept. Whatever.)

And the conversation continues: "I think these two men you ship together are both straight, so they can't feel attraction towards each other."

"Fine, that's your opinion. But how do you prove that?"

"He slept with a woman/flirted with a woman/ loved a woman etc."

"Bisexuality. Exists. Also, some gay people try to date the opposite sex before they admit they are gay, because society teaches that's the normal thing to do. They could be in denial, or pretend to be straight so they don't get beat up or something like that, it's often hard to be queer. But once again: BISEXUALITY EXISTS."

So, the person saying they're straight is usually just basing their thoughts on heteronormativity, thinking that they're straight until proven otherwise. Fandom, on the other hand, looks at how the character acts around different genders and bases their opinion of their sexuality on that.

Back to "Not everyone is gay". What do people even mean when they use that phase? I look at the fictional universe that I love and see zero canon queer people, or maybe two minor characters that were in one episode. The world is filled with characters, and I'm only pointing at a few of them and saying that they seem to have potential for a romance, why not? Straight people already have almost every popular character, is it really too much to ask if we could get one or two too? That's not everyone.

The fans don't want the show/book/movie to become a romance suddenly, we're in this fandom because we like the thing that makes it what it is. We're just asking to acknowledge the romance that literally is already there. WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR A SEX SCENE. We're asking for something that could make the people who watch/read the thing from their heteronormative viewpoint see that it was actually queer all along. So that they would stop ridiculing us queer people for "seeing things that aren't there." Something very small will do: Hannigram didn't even have to kiss because everything needed to make a romance were already there, they just needed one conversations to make it clear that yes, Hannibal was in love with Will and yes, Will did ache for him too. Simple. Korrasami just walked off together in the end. With both cases the fans were happy, and it proves that the idea that "fangirls just want to see two men fuck" is wrong. We just crave to be represented.

The final argument against the queer interpretation is: "Relationships are complex, and sometimes you don't fall for the person who seems to be the perfect match for you." Yes. Real life is complex. Sometimes love is just physical, often you don't fall for your friend. BUT. As a writer, you're not trying to recreate real life. You're showing things and emotions that are important to the story, so why make a multi season/movie/book arch for a relationship between two men if you're just going to pair them off for someone else?

As a person who's into writing I get really confused by these things. One of the first lessons I learned that I still hear daily is: "show, don't tell". If you've shown us the two men falling for each other, telling that one or both of them suddenly love someone else won't fix it. And if every other character in the universe seems to think these two are a couple then it's not very hard for the viewer to see that too.

I am tired of hearing about "platonic love stories". The creators have called so many popular ships that, as if it somehow excused their queerbaiting. Platonic and love story are each other's opposites, and platonic love stories don't exist - unless they're talking about the platonic concept of love: that humans had four legs, four arms and two heads but they were too powerful so the gods divided them in two, and that's why people need a soulmate. But usually they don't mean that - however, sometimes they do. Thank gods for Hugh Dancy. But when creators literally call the ship a love story between two men yet insist it's not romantic, it probably aren't the fans who are reaching. If it's a love story, let it be a love story.

[awed-frog]

hey! i wanted to let you know that i think your cas/stages of grief meta was absolutely amazing. cas's story never really made sense to me, it always seemed so inconsistent, like they had no idea where they were going with it, and your meta is the first i've read that made me see some central theme in it after all. so kudos for that :) just out of curiosity, you have any idea where they're going with crowley? bc his story is another one that always felt the opposite of straightforward to me.

Whats your hope for Crowleys arc on this season?

Hi! Thank you so much for all that! I am the most awful person, because not only I’m like, two months late in answering this but I’m also going to bundle it up with an anon ask. Sorry, @andallthewildthingsroared!

(I did write the overly long thing I promised you, though, so there’s that.)

I understand where you’re coming from - Crowley’s arc is sort of zigzaggy, but if you take away what was clearly bad characterization (such as that one-off threat to Sam complete with red eyes which never went anywhere), I sort of feel like we can know who Crowley is, and what he wants.

Background

So, just as a summary - we know he was a bastard, and that he had a stable enough relationship with his mother that he remembers her (not fondly), and that she up and left soon enough that it felt like she was abandoning him (eight is a bit soon to fend for yourself, even in the seventeenth century). We know he had a son, and since Gavin’s mother is never mentioned, I want to say unremarkable entity who died in childbirth? Because if this had been his great love, and if she’d survived long enough to be remembered by Gavin, I hope to God that would have been brought up in the narrative (come on). So, either Crowley didn’t give a damn about her, and got saddled with the kid for some reason, or he cared a lot and she died pretty early on and that’s possibly the reason he started being so awful to everybody (hello, John Winchester’s parallels). We also know he was a tailor, which, in those times, and for an orphan, implies either that Rowena used magic to help him out (unlikely for a number of reasons) or that he was actually a very smart, very talented kid who had to work his ass off during his apprenticeship, as was usual for the times. In this case, we’ve got someone whose life was out of his control from a very young age, and who knows what it’s like to be at a master’s whim. 

Demon deal

Now, what doesn’t fit with this picture is the idea a kid like that would sell his soul for a longer dick, as Crowley boasted to have done (also, as amusing as it is, this would be a moot point by now, since Crowley’s in a different body). What I consider more likely is that Crowley’s current vessel - the literary agent in his late forties possibly all work and all play as that job often entails - tried to make a similar deal (and that would be a reason for Crowley to stick with the body afterwards; after all, we know he’s vain and likes to sleep around, so, vessel for vessel, why not go for a bigger dong?); as for Crowley himself, I really can’t guess what happened. Gavin remembers him as a useless drunkard, and he certainly had no riches to pass on - so much so, Gavin was forced to emigrate to the Colonies. What did Crowley gain, exactly, in exchange for his soul? An intriguing possibility is that, like Dean, he took the deal to save someone else - perhaps Gavin himself from some childhood fever - and became a drunk asshole out of blind panic the closer he got to the deadline. I like this explanation, because there was always this weird pull between Crowley and Dean, and this would go a long way towards explaining it; but, really, this is one of those things it’s useless to speculate about - either the show will tell us, or it won’t.

(Another possibility I like, but which would have come up by now, is that Rowena sold her kid’s soul to pay for her own magic - a plot bunny I explored here.)

Whatever his reasons, Crowley’s time in hell took this primal lack of control over his own life and made it a thousand times worse. We still don’t know, exactly, how demons are created, how long it takes, and who decides which eyes you’ll get, and which job you’ll do. This is, like, one of the 2000 things the show could get into instead of inventing new lore (I’m not complaining, though - S11 was magnificent, and S12 has been very good so far). What we do know is that the entire process is excruciatingly painful; that it distorts, or takes away, your human soul. If we think about other soulless creatures we’ve encountered, what Crowley is makes a lot of sense. It’s not about being evil, exactly; it’s more about a lack of caring and empathy. There are moments where Crowley actually reminds me of soulless!Sam - like when he pushed Dean into Cain’s arms just because it was convenient on the short term. 

Crowley the crossroads demon

Becoming a demon is also the worst kind of punishment, we should assume, because it completely takes away your free will.

(This is not exactly true, since we’ve seen a lot of demons doing stuff on the side and betraying their masters left, right and centre - but I want to think those demons breaking ranks parallel the mess that’s going on in Heaven - that these are creatures that, under normal circumstances, ie, pre-Winchesters and pre-Apocalypse, functioned as mindless servants under a king. Like angels, demons can, theoretically, think for themselves, but I feel like they’re not designed to? Although, where the angels craved order - and orders - Crowley was hoping to get support by promising other demons ‘a say, a virgin and all the entrails they can eat’ - which means demons are perhaps not as happy as angels to give up their agency. And, well, it would make sense: they do not belong to a different species, after all. They used to be human.)

And so we’ve got the transformation from human!Crowley, indentured to some abusive master as a boy, to demon!Crowley, who’s got no choice but to follow his torturers around. Except, well, Crowley’s smart (too smart for his own good, probably) and ballsy and free will is something he cares about, very fucking much (and this is another tie to Dean). From what we know, it looks like Crowley schemed and schmoozed his way into acquiring enough weapons, knowledge, powers and secrets that he was almost part of the inner circle which was preparing for Lucifer’s return. And here is where his story gets interesting, because, to get Roman about it, “We rob the world, but he will rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, Lucifer will be rapacious; if he be poor, Lucifer will lust for dominion; he will make a desert and call it peace.”

Crowley and the Winchesters

I don’t remember if it’s ever explained why Crowley chose to bet on the Winchesters, of all people, to go against Lucifer. I think we’re meant to not question this - to assume that they’re our main characters and fierce hunters and yadda yadda, but it’s still interesting that Crowley would know them - and well, at that. I like to think they’d been on his radar from the very beginning (or, at least, that Sam was) because of Azazel’s demented scheme, and it’s certainly possible Crowley knew everything about their dealings with Hell, including Sam’s death, Dean’s self-sacrifice, and how and why he was saved. He’s been shown, after all, to be one of the most knowledgeable characters on the board, and if he’s been keeping track of the Winchesters for years and years, that would go a long way in explaining his fond exasperation for their antics. 

Now, Crowley is, of course, fascinating and interesting in himself, but what is also worth noting is that his character, like Cas’ (and perhaps even more than Cas’), is relevant in light of his relation to Dean - and Dean’s sexuality.

The first thing here is - unlike Cas, who, inevitably, had a very strong relationship with Dean from the start which made perfect narrative sense, Crowley could always go either way. It can even be argued that logically, it would have made more sense to pair him off with Sam. First of all, there’s the symmetry (Dean and his angel, Sam and his demon); then there’s the fact Crowley’s got more in common with Sam than he does with Dean - the books, the art, the interest in weird languages and weirder mythology, a general ‘the end justifies the means’ attitude - I know we now have years of backstory to influence how we view those characters, but if we take them in isolation - sure, Dean and Crowley would have fun on a night out (and we’ve seen what they do together: play pool, get drunk, sleep it off with a various number of partners of unspecified gender), but Sam and Crowley - now, that had the potential of a real friendship of the minds (as I said, forget about their history and put aside Crowley’s shady morals for a second - can’t you see how much fun they would have had to explore the Bunker’s library together? how they could have planned thefts, Leverage-style, to recover some painting stolen by an oil magnate - how they would have fought at the end, because, of course, Sam wanted to donate it to a museum and Crowley, well, was planning on keeping it, because he0d bloody well earned it?). Sam becoming friends with a demon after the whole Ruby ordeal would have been a huge bout of character growth, in line with his ‘forgive and don’t judge people by their birth’ personality. And as for Crowley, it would have made sense for him to bond with Sam rather than Dean - if only for the obvious reason: Sam could still be (potentially) his future boss. The boy with the demon blood; the only vessel that can hold Lucifer. Honestly, since Crowley never wanted to be king in the first place, it would have made perfect sense for him to seduce Sam (platonically) and then guide him to the throne - there, problem solved. He would have been chief advisor of The One Who Was Foretold, right there at Sam’s right hand to keep an eye on his every decision, and he would have known, because he would have taken the time to get to know Sam, that Sam (even as a demon king) would be a fair ruler - and, more importantly, a ruler loyal to his old friends.

It was, really, the perfect scheme - and yet the idea never came up at all. In fact, Sam and Crowley lost another momentous occasion to get closer to each other - even after Sam fed Crowley his own blood, the relationship between them remained distant at best, and hostile at worst. That always struck me as really, really weird. Sam saw Crowley at his most vulnerable, and despite being Mr Forgiveness, he continues to hate Crowley with a vengeance and the whole thing never comes up at all. Uh.

I mostly think the main reason for this is very simple: Sam ‘I desperately need my own plotline’ Winchester is straight. Very straight. Pairing him with a man would have been weird. Mirroring the relationship Dean has with Cas - weirder. The thing worked until Ruby was around, but with Crowley they would have missed a lot of juicy subtext. And so, once again and despite all odds, Dean got yet another character to add to his court, and Sam was left with nothing more than Lucifer’s mild interest in him (or, as Sam himself put it in entaglednow’s side-splitting series, “Great, you get the epic love story and I get the creepy sadomasochistic non-con.”).

(This is another reason, by the way, why their refusal to be clearer on the whole ‘Dean is bi’ issue is hurting the show: it is partly, or mostly, because they’re desperate to keep that subtext going that Dean gets all the characters - people like Charlie, or Benny, or even Jody offering him to talk in her most suave mom voice - all of these things make sense in the narrative because they’re feeding the underlying subtext. And since this is, objectively, a Big Story and the core of who Dean is, and Sam’s only stake in it would be a tragic ‘I know I said I’d die for him, but I’ll now reject my gay brother out of moral virtue’ nonsense which clearly doesn’t apply to the character, he’s left with literally nothing to do. Really - most of the story seems to gravitate around these two open secrets - Dean’s sexuality, and Dean’s love for Cas; and since, as I said, Sam’s got nothing to do with either, and no reason to be mad about either, he’s left with no narrative role. Only yesterday @tinkdw was saying how the entire myth arc of S11 doesn’t make any sense without Destiel, and she’s perfectly right; most things, for a lot of time, have been about Dean’s heart.

And I want to add that I’m not okay, or happy, with any of this. First, I think it’s dishonest to include so much subtext that it basically props up your whole narrative while denying anything’s going on; and second, Sam’s a fantastic character and there’s a lot he could do - it defies logic and reason that they’re not using him better. Like, I still can’t believe the entire God reveal was only about Dean, that we still haven’t heard how Sam feels about Lucifer being around, that he’s barely had one conversation with his mother, and that he basically has zero relationships with other characters. Come on - there’s so many awesome things you could do with someone like Sam, why aren’t they doing them? On a show that’s supposedly all about the two of them, and only the two of them?)

Crowley’s arc

By having Crowley’s represent Dean’s eros to Cas’ agape (and I want to say this is a learned reference, but I’m really just thinking about YOI right now), the main mirror for Crowley, and therefore his character arc, was firmly established. Crowley would parallel Cas - and viceversa. The journey, for both of them, is to get closer to humanity (and ‘humanity’), and what’s been fascinating is that, of course, they start off in two very different places.

As I said in the beginning, Crowley’s all about control. He’s very Scarlett O’Hara about things, and he’s got good reason to be. In this, he’s heavily paralleled with Cas, but where Cas focuses his newfound (?) free will on everything but himself - hence the Jesus-like characterization - Crowley’s most consistent character trait is his selfishness. All of his schemes, and most of his ambitions, are ultimately directed at saving himself and avoid pain and death, which, to be honest, would be sensible from anyone’s point of view but is particularly understandable if we consider we’re dealing with a soulless creature who’s got no capacity to love and has endured decades, if not centures, of torture. What is most significant about Crowley, therefore, is the same thing that makes Cas stands out: how Crowley is learning about himself, and how to become who he truly is, through his love for Dean. This is something that we discuss every other day, so I won’t get into it (see for instance the ‘drowley’ tag on my blog, or read here, here or here), but it’s clearly become a major part of his character arc. 

(His decision to sacrifice that spear to save Cas, for instance, was a huge step in this direction - selfishness to selflessness - so huge I still can’t believe I watched it with my own two eyes. It will probably be mirrored, quite soon, by Cas making a step of his own - in his case, towards selfishness, ie, the Winchesters’ happiness, and therefore his own, and away from yet another idiotic heavenly battle plan.) 

As for what will come of it - the problem with this kind of Are you truly my enemy? characters - or, well, the trouble with everything - is that there is a limited number pf ways their story can end. And, again, the problem with Crowley and where his story is going is the same problem we have with everything else - Dean, Sam, Destiel and so on: it all depends on which kind of story this is, and what they’re trying to say with it. So, let’s have a look at it.

A) Crowley could remain his slightly evil self and die because of it - this would place Supernatural in a kind of ‘moralistic’ narrative: the good guys triumph, and the bad guys pay the price.

B) Or, he could try to do the right thing and get killed in the process: that’s the definition of tragedy, which somehow works even better when a character was despicable to start with - think Last of the Mohicans, or Severus Snape. In this case, his death would likely be the first (or the last) of many other significant characters.

C) Another possibility is that Crowley could become human, and that would be both interesting and heartbreaking to watch, because we know Crowley is very ambitious, but, as I said, my headcanon is that he became wary and power-hungry because of what was done to him in Hell. After all, Dean did get a kind of special treatment, but what he went through was also the standard procedure to destroy someone’s soul - so drunken tailor Fergus was probably on the rack for decades, until the last shred of humanity left inside him burned and withered, and it’s likely that at some point he had his O'Hara moment and that’s why he always puts himself first: because he’s bloody scared shitless to be vulnerable again. In this sense, a human Crowley would be resentful and terrified - and therefore, a beautiful character to watch.

(Not that there would be anyone left to watch, since if they go there, I think they’ll do it at the last possible moment.)

D) Or, Crowley could remain a demon but shift his priorities so completely as to work with the Winchesters full-time, sort of like Cas did. Now, this would be quite something because Cas and Crowley are often paralleled, but at the same time it would put Crowley in a difficult position: I am sure Sam and Dean would fully accept him as a member of TFW only if Crowley repented and behaved like an unpstanding citizen from then on, and how is all that compatible with being the king of Hell? Plus, what would happen to the other demons? Was Crowley making more demons when he had complete control of Hell? We know he turned Hell more bureaucratic and 'punishment fits the crime’ and whatever, but his demons were still eating human flesh, and I’m not sure they can even survive without? So, well, however noble Crowley’s intentions, that would be an uneasy alliance. If Crowley remains his lovable and snarky demon self, I see more of an Eric Northman ending for him: sure, he gets his throne and all sort of pretty distractions, but he loses his Sookie forever.

E) And finally: Crowley could be killed in a freak ‘accident’, maybe by an ally of the Winchesters who didn’t know he was sort of a friend (Mary is a prime candidate), or by Cas or Sam because of the greater good, or maybe even by Dean himself - but not by choice - and that would be a sort of fridging because it would shift the meaning of his death to the damage it’d do to his killer.

Which hypothesis is more likely? 

Well: first of all, we need to bear in mind a few RL factors. They’ll probably want to keep Mark around because he’s awesome, the fans generally like him so that’s another plus, and I firmly believe they still don’t know how they want Supernatural to end (or even what the next season’s theme is going to be) so a character like Crowley is a godsend, because when weird shit needs to happen or you suddenly need drama or whatever, you can always count on someone like that to make it happen (and that’s another reason why I don’t think Crowley will become human any time soon: it would severely limit the weird shit they can pull off) - which means, it’s likely they’ll keep him around for a while. And also: his death would bring nothing, narratively, to the table. For instance, John’s death and Bobby’s death sort of made sense, because the boys had some growing up to do, and killing someone like Cain or defeating Lucifer was important because it told us our boys are on the Good side even when it’s difficult, but now we know all this. 

To me - if we’re looking at the very end, there are only two ways this makes sense: either Crowley is killed off, or sacrifices himself, in some heartwrenching scenario so that his death will mean Cas or Dean or even Sam lives, or he becomes human - my headcanon is that he’ll still know how to do magic, because I’m a sucker for magician!Crowley - and walks away from the boys entirely. If Supernatural ends in tragedy, then it’s the first option all the way; but if its end is more like, there are no more monsters and you’re now free to open a car repair shop, then it only makes sense that both Cas and Crowley become human. Cas will be the sort of human who still stares up at the sky from time to time and will lie to Dean when Dean asks and say it’s okay (hopefully, Dean won’t believe a word of it and kiss him extra hard that night), and Crowley - Crowley likes to be the centre of attention, so I’m thinking politics. Or maybe he’ll hoodwink his way to the very top of a renowned auction house and meet some wealthy widow at his local golf club, and that will be it - a sort of happy ending, and the occasional drunk call to Dean to reminisce about that happy, happy summer they once had.