#and why i dislike totk

[ihavedonenothingright]

I haven't really been a fan in a while, but hearing Zeltik say that for the film, Ganondorf should be "a deranged, monstrous warlord who wants power, and nothing else" genuinely enraged me. I need to know what the fuck would make someone think that is the best thing to do with him. I know it's what they will do—I have zero hope of nuance, or even a motivation for him—but just. God, even the Zelda manga understood what to do with him! Why do you hate depth? What is wrong with you?

I am going to be very straightforward here: making him do what he does just because he's "mad" not only makes for an uninteresting villain, it also falls neatly in to a myriad of disgusting orientalist tropes that you can't avoid responsibility for just by giving him green skin. He is the only male representative of the Gerudo we ever see, and while the games will sometimes allow them to be the "good guys" (so long as they're assimilating into Hylian culture, or working in its interest), what Nintendo created in Ganondorf and his backstory was the equivalent of one of those slave market or sexy harem paintings of the late 19th century. He's the evil-for-evil's-sake depraved and decadent man in possession of unlimited numbers of scantily clad women, and that is, beyond a doubt, an orientalist notion. But he doesn't fucking have to be.

Frankly, up until Tears of the Kingdom, Nintendo was getting better about him. I still think Akira Himekawa did him best, but Wind Waker Ganondorf is beloved because of his contradictions. He's undertaking actions we would consider evil for an ultimately fruitless cause, but he's not "deranged," he's consumed by the (literal) sunk cost fallacy, unwilling to give up on a dream he's already lost. Even in Ocarina of Time, he's the product of Hyrule's own making. The King of Hyrule is the one who launched a civil war, Hyrule is the nation with hidden torture chambers and guillotines. The Gerudo weren't even thieves before the war; Nabooru is anti-Hyrule, she disagrees with him on method.

Anyway, yeah. I keep forgetting what a cesspool the fandom is out in the wild. But for the love of God, I need people to start handling this man with some care.

[ganondoodle]

okay, bc i have seen this argument alot now (and it also seems to be the view point of aonuma himself..) is that "zelda cant do everything link does bc whats the point then"

and i take personal offense on that bc its a stupid argument (in. my. very. personal. opinion.- not judging people for liking it. its a ME thing)

whats the point? its that its her. its still a different character, different in story, background, personality, but i WANT to play zelda and she can do everything link does, why does she have to be so restricted and be bend over backwards to find some new way to make her 'useful' when link gets to do basically everything no questions asked (the only thing thats hers is like .. sealing power and sacrificial maiden, which i find a little underwhelming to say the least), if theres no point to it why are there always modders that model swap link with someone else, and in that case it has even less impact bc its an artificial model swap with no changes to the story (which can and should still be different when its the vanilla game with a different protagonist... its still a different character), clearly theres joy in just the model being a different one- and that isnt even to mention the story possibilities, since, again, its stil a different character

if we ever (never ... i know who we are talking about here) get to play as ganondorf i want to him to be just as versatile and active as link is, if we got a point and click adventure game for him instead bc 'whats the point' id be disappointed too- you can find any sort of excuse/explanation for zelda to be singled out but the fact remains it tracks with how female characters are often treated, and that hits a very sore spot for me

i guess i am unfortunately one of those annoying people that want to see female characters be treated exactly the same as male characters, possibly bc i am myself afab but identify as agender and have a deeply personal dislike for anything 'traditional' feminine bc i cannot and never will be able to truly live as myself in real life, it influences all of my work, my work is as just as much as my opinion on this, very personal

and in line with my point about modding, i see theres joy in just beign able to play as her even if its like this, i get that, i also get it for the creative aspect (though that mechanic worries me even more for the future bc it really seems to be the path now that -freedom = good, linear anything = bad-) it is a different idea and its not like i cant see that value- im not trying be "right" either, just bc i have that opinion doesnt mean i need everyone to agree, its a very personal thing, if you like it good for you! not for me though, and i think both of that is equally valid

i just personally wish she was allowed to be just like link, fight just like him but be different bc its still her and not him in the end- to be physically/playstyle like jsut like him, but you know ... as her, i dont think shed stop being zelda if she could wield a sword just like him

i dont really know how to get my point/feelings across, i dont want to step too much into personal stuff nor spam people with something that ultimately doesnt interest me alot, im just saddened by it really

(EDIT: bc i forgot to add this on here again; this isnt as much of a problem as it might sound like here, just the main topic i wanted to talk about; why im so uninterested in it is MAINLY bc i dont trust them to write anything interesting/care about lore anymore after totk, im always on the more pessimistic side that thinks its most likely worse than id hope and i know even the past games arent perfect or super interestingly written, but now its much more just a general distrust, together with everything like the price ... im just much less hopeful and cant get excited until i see more of it, like im waiting for the game to get out and reveal that its just as much of a mess and money i regret spending- kind of fear)

[gaylactic-fire]

When I say there's something Deeply Fucking Wrong with BOTW/TOTK Zelda haters this is what I mean btw

[teratophilex]

Imagine if, instead of Matthew Mercer voicing Ganondorf, they just use a tiktok MHA roleplayer with those strange inflections

[rawliverandgoronspice]

I.... Shomehow Just noticed that Descant's storytelling form is extremely similar to the format of the Tears from TotK. Like. Could not have seen this coming (also there is still a linearity, I'm trying to put non-linear things in a linear path to reveal and conceal stuff and weave thematic tissue between scenes in kind of a russian movie cut sort of way), but it is pretty much super similar conceptually to the Tears you collect from Zelda, except it is uhh.... Non-Tears you collect from the Man with the Dryest Face Ever.

[timegears-moved]

i want to complain about totk again but i won't

[7-oh-ta1]

The worst thing abt Sidon getting a love interest is that the s*dl*nk selfshippers are annoying, but then the alternative is the z*l*nk shippers being annoying and both trying to claim superiority over the other meanwhile I just want to learn more about the cute green fish girl in peace

[waywardsalt]

my general reaction to that new trailer is mostly just the same slight exhaustion with some new irritation towards the voiceover guy explaining the new stuff

[axolotlsauce]

sure is reassurring to see that the zelda cycle is still alive and survived the existence of breath of the wild lol

[powdermelonkeg]

It’s 4 AM and I am going to randomly complain.

I hate the “oh it just disappeared with the calamity” thing and am going to pull the “if it’s not in the games it’s not canon” card.

Not even because I dislike it (I do dislike it, I’ve got half a dozen explanations of my own, but never mind that) but because it’s literally disproven in canon.

There is still a defunct guardian chained on top of the Hateno Research Lab.

What makes THAT special. Why is it still around.

Also, even if you ignore TotK as a whole, it’s disproven. The “true ending” of BotW has Zelda, after the sealing, with the Slate, saying that Vah Ruta is acting strange. It should have vanished if that was the case.

So yeah. Interview handwaving isn’t canon, especially when the handwaving in question was clearly thought up on the spot.

[hystericstar]

I don't know if you do multiples but could I have some headcanons for HW!Link, TP!Link and BotW/TotK!Link with a fem s/o with a pear like body(small chest big hips) that they are insecure about? (bcitotallyhavethatbodytypeandwanttofeellovedlikethat)

All body types are beautiful and equally worthy of love <33

I hope these bring you the comfort you seek!

cw: nothing just very fluffy smut headcannons :)

! MDNI !

➳ Hyrule warriors link ➳

You’re insecure? What? How? How can you not see that you shine brighter than hylia herself? He simply can’t stand for that.

takes you to a private room with a window over looking the courtyard

he pulls a chair to the window and sits you on his lap facing outside and slides his hand down to your folds

”you see that lady over there? Yeah, she is nothing compared to you. That dress suits you more too, wouldn’t you agree darling?”

mirror sex

Him going agonizingly slow, feeling you up and down and forcing you to look at yourself

“Everything you see is worthy of love. I’m not gonna stop till you remember that. Now, why don’t you brag to me about how hot you are and maybe I’ll reward you. How’s that sound, hmm?”

𐂅 Twilight princess link 𐂅

Hickeys. Hickeys everywhere.

oh, you don’t like your hips? He loves them.

unsatisfied with your chest? He will pinch, lick, and suck on your breasts for hours.

he’s gonna give you reasons to love yourself, better yet- he’ll show you

he will not hesitate to remind you of your pure radiance

one negative comment about yourself and he will drop whatever he was previously doing to worship you

”darlin’, you’re too unique to go around feelin’ bad about yourself. Here, lemme show you what I see.”

ᘏ botw/totk link ᘎ

chances are, he already knew by the way he watched you eye yourself in the mirror.

so, while you’re asleep, he sneaks off to ventest clothing and pays Cece a visit

She gladly helps him create an absolutely divine set of clothing. It highlights and accentuates your body in all the best ways

the moment you wake he is adamant that you wear the outfit

“oh, look at you. Carefull now, you might make the heavens jealous.”

spends most of the day dancing with you, lovingly caressing every part of your body that he can

it doesn’t take long before the clothing gets yanked off though

as pretty as you looked, you were even prettier bare

massages your hips and leaves wet kisses all over your waist and chest

”now what do you see that I don’t?”

makes you tell him exactly what you don’t like about your body, tells you exactly why he loves your body

”how can you dislike a body that’s so huggable?”

~《☆♡•°•°♡☆》~

you being sad makes them sad! Nobody can love you more than you love yourself, and they’re a living reminder of that <33

thank you for requesting!!

[skyloftian-nutcase]

Thinking of Ganondorf being from an all female race of Amazonian warriors. Thinking of the sheer environment he grew up in affecting him. How, as a Gerudo, he would naturally be a huge feminist because he looks at his sisters and daughters and KNOWS their strength and endurance. He knows how powerful a woman is. Then he looks at the Hyrule and sees how comparably weaker the women of that country are, how they're expected to stay at home and tend to children while the men fight, how even though it's a matriarchy by nature of the goddess blood that flows through the daughters of the Royal Family, the Kings are looked to with more esteem than the literal goddesses in human flesh that make of the more feminine side of the family. Can you imagine how infuriated that would make Ganondorf???

Get comfortable, lovely, I have a lot of thoughts on this.

First, I think you’re right in that Ganondorf would respect and understand women’s abilities. 100%. I also think growing up in an all female society would have several effects on his behavior, such as making him more physically affectionate and nurturing than most men, because that’s the only example he’s had (assuming, of course, he ever was close enough to anyone to do that - I feel like being the Gerudo king kind of separated him from the others so he might be aloof). But I also think that, given their tradition of crowning the sole male as king, and given their seeming Othering of men (at least in botw/totk time, where they have to take a class to figure out how to deal with men, where girls can’t even look at men, where families are ripped apart because they disapprove of men so much - none of which I find remotely feminist or healthy), he’d have a bit of a superiority complex as well. Not over women specifically so much as everyone, but it would definitely include his own people.

As for how women are treated in Hyrule and his opinion on it… based on his behavior and words in TotK—based on the fact that, at least in most eras that Ganondorf lives in—he comes from a warrior culture, I don’t think he’d be insulted for the Hyrule women so much as insulted by them. Like, his thought would be that if they’re supposedly oppressed why don’t they fight back?? Why are they acting so weak and pathetic and docile?? He might dislike the culture altogether if it prevents women from fighting, but he’d also just… be insulted that they all just think, including the women, that they are incapable of fighting (which I don’t think is ever specifically actually the case. Like yeah, there aren’t tons of female fighters out there but nobody disapproves of it either - there are plenty of women adventuring in botw, Ashei is certainly an exception but isn’t seemingly ostracized, there are female knights aplenty in Skyloft culture, which was the foundation of Hyrule, Zelda herself wields a sword in several games). I don’t think he’d care about the idea that women are nurturers or better suited to care for the home and family, because frankly he has nothing to go on in terms of are men better at this or whatnot. He recognizes his own physical strength is greater than Gerudo women, but, due to the Othering of men anyway in Gerudo culture, it’s hard for him to know if that’s a general thing or if he’s just special. Because dude does have an ego, so he’d definitely think he’s special. But he’d also see that these Hylian women are naturally weaker than Gerudo women and would likely just view all of the Hylians as lesser anyway.

As for the royal family, it’s definitely matriarchal as you said, but I don’t think there’s an emphasis on kings being more important. It’s just that we’ve never seen the queens alive, and that’s a story choice rather than a reflection of the culture. Zelda is almost always underage, and her mother is nowhere to be found. You could assume she just isn’t ruling, I guess, but the only time a queen is specifically mentioned is to say she had died, devastating the whole family. When Zelda is of age, even though the game still calls her princess, she is very much in charge (such as in Twilight Princess and Hyrule Warriors). I think part of the reason Rhoam had such a stick up his butt in botw was because he was serving as king regent, essentially, out of his element, stressed as hell in an upcoming apocalypse, trying to keep his daughter alive, and preparing her to rule once she reached adulthood. His whole rant about her being heir to a throne of nothing would be more poignant (still awful, btw, but more poignant) if he was emphasizing that she was rapidly approaching age of adulthood, about to ascend to the throne, and the kingdom had no faith in her and could likely outright rebel against her as a result.

[ganondoodle]

still thinking about how even just the decision to basically act like the shiekah tech never existed is just ... so baffling to me

bc again you could have done all the sonau tech does with shiekah instead, and they were perfect to be explored more in a sequel, why wouldnt you grasp that potential, the literal building blocks for more??

if you are that tired of shiekah tech .. dont make it a fuckign sequel to the game prominently featuring it???? totk doesnt take place generations after botw in which things could have changed drastically, its just a few years afterwards??

you want to reuse the map and get rid of shiekah tech? ok fine take LINK into the past then and the focus is for you to find a way to return; do some neat twist where its revealed that link was the one who sealed gan bc he couldnt defeat him without zelda or something if you dare (they wouldnt)

want less work than that and still reuse the map and get rid of shiekah tech AND reuse characters? ok then make it some alternate universe thingy like majoras mask in which everythign is the same but also isnt, its weird and creepy how characters you thoguht you knew suddendly dont act like themselves, shiekah tech doesnt exist, malice is now miasma, etc, it would give reason to why you feel so much like something about this world is familiar yet also very wrong

as far as im aware every "sequel" we have had so far were either generations apart from the first one, some alternate universe or a different location altogether- in all of which its plausible that things are different, things seem weirdly familiar but also wrong, or that another continent just works different from hyrule

but totk does none of that, its supposedly just a few years after the first game, same world same character, but its BUILT like some strange jumbled mess of stuff from botw and new stuff out of nowhere that just .. doesnt fit, but feeling a strange sense of otherness, a déja vu of something you know but it acts off, like an imposter, thats NOT intentional and it shows, its a mess of botw stuff, from stuff that people missed from the old games and entirely new stuff; i dont doubt it CAN work but the way it turned out is like a mix of 3 different puzzles forced together and being told 'see it fits!' even tho you can clearly see the pieces dont look right in these places

again it feels like a sequel that desperately wants you to forget the first game happened, that anythign from it mattered at all

and that isnt really ... the sense of a sequel? why insist on it being one when it only creates problems? is it marketing?? just like it was marketing to call age of calamity a telling of what happened before botw but then it wasnt that at all and that is still the sole reason why i dislike it? bc i was lied to? totk is like 10000 times worse than that, its a main title and doesnt even have the excuse of yeah its basically an excuse to play all your fav characters in fun ways and the game beign well aware that being its main appeal; what is totk appeal? a toybox with botw aestethic and none of the flavor?

(on a sidenote; the sonau tech doesnt even .. matter? in botw at least calamity ganon was made of shiekah tech parts and him overtaking other tech is a big point, the sonau tech doesnt serve anything but .. idk minerus useless mech? gan doesnt even aknowledge it, he doesnt care, all it is is toys for the player, not link, but the player. the monsters mining the tech materials? what for? gan doesnt give a damn and they dont work for the yiga either??)

i said it before but it gives me the feeling that the way botw invited you to theorize, to look beneath the surface, the way it intrigued you and laid the groundwork for so many interesting things without denying anything.. was accidental? or perhaps put in the game without the directors noticing? i cant stop thinking about them saying sth like "after botw zelda wondered if the kingdom of hyrule needed to keep existing the way it had been before the calamity, but then totk happens" bc it just feels like they realized too late that botw naturally led into questioning the status quo and they scrambled to fit it back into a flat and boring road we have seen so many times before (or even worse really) with totk

zeldas character naturally leads into her questioning and reexamine their history and set of rules? we gotta teach her a lesson of why she is importante god given monarchy girl that has to keep it bc what if evil brown man shows up again for no reason

maybe im grasping at straws here but looking at it this way the sonau .. make more "sense"; the shiekah were a group that was under the rule of the royal family, and misstreated before (oh no look soemthing interesting) so they dont lend themselves well to be used for teaching zelda that lesson- the sonau however are tailored really to be just that; they are a supposedly godly race from the literal sky that founded this version of hyrule, that had tech even more advanced and better than the shiekah, she gets put in the past to meet the perfect god king of goodness personally, also his very fridgy wifey that zelda later replaces in a way, shes put there and treated like family and then gets to see just how evil that evil big man from the desert is, sonia is falcon-punched to death solely so zelda can feel obligated to take over her role, have her new, better 'family' hurt by gan; similarly so raurus sacrifice, look what a noble and good king he is, he payed the ultimate price to lock that evil man away, now zelda you cannot let their sacrifice go to waste, rebuild that divinely good kingdom like it was!!

and even though they go so much out of their way to put the cart back onto the rails of black and white-good and evil in an even flatter way than the old games, it still doesnt feel right, at least to me, it still feels like zelda shouldnt have gone along with all of that, it feels like even her character from botw was walked back entirely, except for the intro, it made her feel like a stranger to me-

because this is a sequel, i know this zelda, she wouldnt act like that after all that shes been through, this feels ... off

and it all just insulting to anyone who cared about botw more than surface level, or the zelda lore in general, i dont even care much about the timeline, but theres alot of lore and themes beyond it that felt ignored, especially so given that .. its a damn sequel, non AU, not generations apart, directly part 2-

but its not.

it even feels very "corporate", put zelda in a dress again, people liked that, put crazy abilities in the game to flashbang people with how insane it is even if its not the best for the gameplay or the story, put a new asthetic into it out of nowhere bc its 'new' and act like its been there the whole time, put gan in there bc people miss him and find him sexy even if his role is just as flat as that of an evil cloud monster-

*sigh*

you know, i saw a post that said aoc was like a bad fanfic (affectionate) and totk was like a bad fanfic (derogatory) and tbh thats like one of the best comparisons/summaries i have seen ..

[nolongerapileofashprobably]

I just want to say that BOTW/TOTK's Zelda is the first version of the character I've ever loved, and I've been a LoZ fan since OoT. It just frustrates me the way some fans lambast her for being angry at Link in BOTW and also claim she was wasted/fridged/sidelined/reduced to "pure sacrificial maiden" and had her adorable nerd personality stripped away in TOTK (also claiming her sacrifice in TOTK is an attempt to validate Rhoam's treatment of her in BOTW). I thought her arc in TOTK was a wonderful continuation of the one she had in BOTW and showed how much stronger she had grown. Poor gal can't catch a break. What are your thoughts?

….I do not know how long of an answer you expected, but I have so many thoughts. So. Many. Thoughts. And boy do I go on tangents when I should be sleeping. Anyway. Here you go :)

For the most part, I hold a lot of the Zelda’s near and dear to my heart! Though, admittedly, it comes from the fandom’s exploration of these characters rather than just purely canonical content.

But Botw/Totk Zelda…. I don’t need any ‘additional’ content or exploration beyond what we see in the games to make me absolutely love and adore her. She is the most developed Zelda and she has an amazing arc— her complex feelings regarding her own magic, the complicated relationship she had with her father, the realistic exploration of her feelings regarding Link and how they went from jealousy and dislike to acceptance and adoration.

I always find that many complex and well developed characters are nearly always wasted on those who cannot look past mistakes (especially ones that set up future developments and start plot lines). Sometimes, people fixate on the moments writers use to cement that yes, this character is in a very low point of their life and the way they cope is not the ‘good’ way to.

The first memory in botw tells us that Zelda is none too thrilled to have Link as her knight attendant and the Hylian Champion. That she’s using him to project her own frustrations regarding her own failures. Which is the very introduction used to draw us in, make us curious about her history and how Link is tied into any of it.

So many just… can’t see past the reason we are shown this memory, nor why her frustrations led her to yell at Link. Because she was absolutely powerless and unlike Link who has had the Master Sword since he was 12, she had nothing to show. And her character is constantly forced to listen to her father, to heed the teachings she was vaguely given through one-off comments her mother and grandmother said. She was forbidden to pursue her hobbies and give it all up for the sake of the prophecy.

And then, to find out that Zelda awakened her powers through love, love for Link who she initially misjudged and mistreated, is so so powerful. Because she had grown to resent the spirits and herself. But Link. She grew to not only care for Link but to fall in love with him. And that instinct, that belief, that faith, that love. That is what sparked the power within her.

Zelda finally heard the spirit in the sword. She understood her part in this fight. For so long she had struggled to find her power, and she awakened it just in time to save Link, but at the cost of everyone else she held dear.

Something I don’t think a lot of people who criticize and hate Zelda understand is that Zelda’s pure and unwavering faith in Link is her drive to make these sacrifices. She knows it will be worth it. Because she believes in Link. And she supports him in whatever way she can. The reason they don’t understand this is because they can’t see past Zelda’s initial emotions regarding Link. They can’t see how she never believed in herself but she always had unflinching faith in him once she got to know him.

Then to see her accept that her magic has been sapped from its constant, draining use for the last 100 years at the end of botw…. It is a powerful moment. She fought so long to have those powers, ones her father berated her for not having access to, but she can finally accept that she can’t hear the spirit in the sword anymore. That’s development.

And for those who think Zelda’s cute adorable nerdiness was wiped from totk obviously don’t have the greatest history of understanding context clues. Zelda legitimately geeks out in the very first opening sequence of totk.

*totk Spoilers ahead*

She goes on and on about the Imprisoning War and the Zonai, taking pictures and obviously ecstatic about the discovery. She finds the Master Sword’s ability to heal itself fascinating. She founded research teams and build a school to further education in Hyrule. She wasn’t just a nerd. She was the Princess of Nerds.

Her sacrifice in ToTK is at surface level the action of a sacrificial maiden. Those who can’t read beyond that won’t understand it any other way. They won’t see how important it is that Fi sought Zelda thousands of years into the past, when in the beginning of botw she couldn’t even hear the spirits. They won’t understand how Zelda’s unflinching faith in Link parallels Link’s unflinching loyalty to Zelda. ToTK is a zelink centered game. Yep. I said it. We all know it’s true.

The entire plot revolves around, get this, Finding Princess Zelda.

Link’s entire motivation behind this game is to find Zelda. That is quite literally all he truly wants to do. He wants to find her. He isn’t there for duty. He just simply wants to find her.

And she is in the past, ensuring Link has every possible thing to help him secure a future for Hyrule. She went from detesting her place in the prophecy, from being forced to comply to her father’s choices, to embracing her role as the Princess of Hyrule and choosing her own way of aiding Link.

Totk gave Zelda the supportive father figure and guiding mother figure she sorely lack in botw. It showed us and Zelda that despite having the things she didn’t have, they still failed. Sonia was killed. Rauru had to sacrifice himself.

Zelda had to sacrifice herself. She was known for being stubborn, perceptive, analytical, and independent. Now she is known for her kindness, her intelligence, her empathy, and her compassion. And she sacrificed it all just to give Link the Master Sword. Because she had unwavering faith he could defeat Ganondorf.

Zelda is a RIDICULOUSLY complex character who has been through so much. But complexity is lost on those who only look for the simple, easy to understand things. So she is bound to have haters.

But for those who can understand and admire that development, we see Zelda for who she is. And if it’s any consolation, so does Link. While this game didn’t officially make zelink canon, they did make it canon that Link stayed by Zelda’s side after the Calamity. Once she was gone, they again made it canon that he would not stop until she was back with him. His Zelda. The one that rambles and excitedly tells Link that so much has happened.

Botw/totk Zelda is so so complex. And for that reason alone, she will have haters. But they don’t know or understand her. Not in any way that truly matters. Because those who do understand her and love her, well, it’s pretty clear that’s the way to go if Link’s main purpose and the entirety of totk tells us.

[ophanim-vesper]

My (personal) Problem With TOTK's Zelda

I think nothing infuriates me more about TOTK's writing than the fact that Zelda is literally a recycled, WORSE version of herself in BOTW.

What was Zelda's arc in BOTW? - struggling to unlock an important power that will help save the world. - is dreading an impending doom that will be caused by a formidable evil. - by losing/nearly losing those who love and support her, she finds her strength and sacrifices herself to help Link, spending hundreds to thousands of years in an intangible, unreachable form.

Very, VERY well-written and thematically consistent. Zelda had her struggles, her faults and her flaws and grew to be an incredible savior worthy of the prophecy that preceded her. She literally went from 'zero to hero', believing she was the weakest out of her companions (the Champions) to becoming one of the most important. Without her, the story of BOTW wouldn't have happened, and it's thanks to her that the kingdom is saved.

So what's Zelda's arc here in TOTK? uhhh.... - struggling to unlock an important power that will help save the world. - is dreading an impending doom that will be caused by a formidable evil. - by losing/nearly losing those who love and support her, she finds her strength and sacrifices herself to help Link, spending hundreds to thousands of years in an intangible, unreachable form.

Except, in my opinion it's much WORSE and carries much less weight than in BOTW. Why? Because there's one horrible mistake the writers of TOTK made when writing our beloved princess, and it's that...

They made her too perfect.

Idk if this is just me, but I dislike how Zelda was portrayed as this 'perfect, flawless and talented princess' who can do everything as if it was as simple as breathing for her. I didn't like how she suddenly became good at cooking at this game (referring to that one side quest with the meat and rice bowl). I loved the hc that she was a terrible cook, but even if she somehow learned, I wish it was mentioned how Link taught her or how she works super hard to become good at something she previously wasn't. I wish it was touched upon how she was an isolated princess who only had books for access to the outside world. I didn't like how it seemed she was suddenly a proficient explorer who knew all plant species and animals just because she 'read' about them (reading doesn't count for crap if you have no field experience!). It almost seems like every skill Link was good at is suddenly also Zelda's skill, aside from fighting. I don't like that. It makes them feel less unique from each other, and makes Zelda feel like she's copying Link in a sense. I wish Zelda had more obviously 'book smarts' while Link was more of a 'streets smarts' person.

Also, they completely forgot to give her any flaws. No struggles, no real issues, no intrapersonal problems at all. But what infuriates me the most to the point I see red, is this:

"Oh? You're struggling to unlock a new power you've never used before but desperately need to in order to go home/save the world? Lemme give you a quick pep talk and you're suddenly a master at using it, no struggle to learn needed yippeee!!!!!!"

Yeah. I don't like this.

I get it. In BOTW, Zelda had no proper mentor with experience to teach her to use her Light power. She had to figure it out herself, with everyone putting pressure on her, thus stunting her development further. And here, Zelda had supporting loved ones with experience in magic who can actually teach her. But come on...

It feels like such a lazy cop-out, and stomps on the beautiful arc Zelda had in BOTW when unlocking her power. It also sucks that it happens off-screen too, as in the next memory Zelda is suddenly proficient at time magic.

Zelda doubted herself. She was carrying pounds of self-loathing and frustration because she couldn't do the one thing she was destined to do. She felt useless, a failure and felt as if the Goddess herself was ignoring her. THAT is a character with struggle. THAT is an interesting protagonist. It is almost never fun when a character instantly learns to use a new skill they've never used before, or even knew existed-- and even WORSE when it happens OFF-SCREEN.

Of course, these are just my opinions though, and I'm sure many other people have different views of Zelda in either game. Feel free to rebuff my statements or even just continue the discussion! That's what these rant posts are made for, lol.

[rawliverandgoronspice]

Okay so this has been on my mind for awhile and I wanted to get my thoughts out there. Regarding the topic of Rauru and Ganons relationship, I feel like rauru has kinda been bashed? people seem think that rauru in memory 6 (I believe) had a bit of a god complex, and that he was disrespectful. I feel as if rauru kinda had a right to act the way he did.

Rauru had wanted to become Allie’s with the gerudo. Not necessarily because he wants them to serve him but more for resources. Or more likely knowing Ganon he was attacking hyrule. The reason why I suspect this is because during the molduga incident rauru and Sonia seem to be very familiar with theses types of attacks. So it’s likely Ganon had ordered monster attacks on them before. Likely the attacks were getting to much for rauru and Sonia to handle; on top of establishing hyrule, rauru sent out messages for Ganon to join the kingdom in order to stop the attacks. Or another reasoning is that the gerudo were likely suffering. Ganon has been shown to not always prioritize his people. And knowing from past games the gerudo desert doesn’t have much resources. We can kinda see this in Totk they seem to only have hydromelon and voltfruit (I highly doubt that the gerudo had men at the time bringing them food from hyrules fields). If you’ve talked to rauru on the sky islands you’ll know that rauru is actually a very sweet and sympathetic guy, so I believe this could be a possibility.

Moving forward to raurus attitude during their meeting.Now rauru wasn’t exactly the nicest during the meeting, but I don’t really blame him. Rauru probably annoyed that ganon has been ignoring his letters and putting his people in danger. Also Ganon was very sketchy during that entire meeting and was rude in his tone.

Why did Ganon bow? Ganon and rauru are not equal, yes they are both kings but rauru has massive amounts of power and has a much larger land mass. (and zonia are kinda gods) but I don’t think the reasoning for Ganon bowing is because he less than or non equal to rauru. More like he was apologizing and giving rauru respect for the countless times he’s ignored him or tried to kill him.

More of raurus tone in the meeting Again I think he was really fed up with Ganon and rauru seems very non confrontational (he apologizes in the sky islands that the constructs attack link, and ask link not to be angry because they can’t understand) rauru likely wanted it to get into ganons mind not to attack the kingdom again because rauru had a lot of Allie’s and power and will attack Ganon if he pulls a stunt.

Ganon vs the gerudo. This part is a little off topic but, lots believe rauru is low key kinda racist towards the gerudo. But if this was true why was gerudo sage working with rauru? I don’t think that the way rauru acts is how he acts to all gerudo. The sage of lighting very obviously doesn’t like Ganon. The reasoning  could be my first point. And later on after the imprisoning war the gerudo still stuck with hyrules side.

That’s all I have for right now, sorry if it’s all jumbled up I tried to make it coherent. Anyways I appreciate you for reading this :3

-🔺

Hi, thanks for the lengthy ask!! I'm sorry for the lengthy answer this beckoned, but I think this conversation is pretty important --even beyond Zelda and this specific case. We're talking themes and tropes and framing!!!!

I will try to reply to all of this in a way that kind of threads through several layers of why people have been bashing Rauru, me included. I will try my best to explain why I dislike this character, and try to parse out why I am this miffed by Tears of the Kingdom's storyline overall.

The long story short is: I don't dislike Rauru as a person (I mean, I also would tbh), I dislike him because of what he represents.

I think the waters did muddy a little in the "discourse" recently, and it's a good thing to take a step back and re-explain where I'm coming from (me personally, not going to speak for anyone but me here).

Also, before jumping in: this is not a condamnation on anyone who enjoys this story or these characters, nothing is unproblematic, it's fine, everybody does what they want, all of the things. I like the game and I keep playing the game in spite of being harshly critical of the ideas pushed forward. Also: it's fine to digest this and come back later (or not at all) if that feels like a lot, or if some of these ideas don't immediately click. But it's also partially why I think it's important: this game is aimed at a young audience, and one who might not have all of the keys to decipher what's going on, which is why I think it's quite irresponsible (which is the charitable interpretation) on Nintendo's part.

Anyway. Too many words underneath the cut.

The Story

So, first of all, I want to say that I believe you completely and fully read the situation as Nintendo intended it to be read. This is the text of the game (aka, the story taken at face value). You picked up on every single safeguard put into place to have Rauru and Sonia act in the most justifiable way possible, and have Ganondorf, on the other hand, act as a duplicitous, power-hungry and downright insane as they could have made him. In the reality of their universe, and only taking into account what is given to us through the narrative, trusting it comes from a neutral place and isn't influenced by anything, everything you said is 100% correct.

Rauru and Sonia WERE acting in self-defense, and were even kind not to turn their incommensurable power against the invading army.

The kingdom Rauru built as a demigod IS a paradise and they WERE very generous to invite neighboring nations to bask in their wealth and its technological and natural blessings (and the results of their extensive mining and why are there killer robots everywhere if this world was such a peaceful paradise uhh let's not ponder about this too much). That Ganondorf was too prideful and envious to accept IS a sin that rests solely with him.

Rauru IS a brave hero that sacrificed himself to seal the invader that killed his beloved wife.

Every single Sage IS extraordinarily devoted to protect both Rauru's lineage and their own lands, and gleefully pass down that duty to their ancestors --all thanks to Zelda, heir of that blessed royal line who returned to the past and made them promise to fight alongside Link to seal the Evil once more.

The gerudo WERE (apparently) oppressed, as they decided to fight under Rauru's authority freely (so against their own chief??) and, also, must make amends for having put Ganondorf in this world in the first place? ( I think we are already starting to see some contradictions --were you always victims or did you start this conflict in the first place? what is your place in all of this? why don't we ever get to know?)

This IS the story of Tears of the Kingdom. A story of a great sacrifice that happened in the golden mythical past (confirmed as unquestionable truth through the archeology motif), done by benevolent godly figures of royal blood and immense power they would never abuse, giving their everything to bring Light into a broken world corrupted by the degeneracy of Evil, echoed by the devotion of nations who swore fealty to that divine being and must now renew their vow in the present to defend their lands and Hyrule at any cost. Also, the impossible and magnificient suffering of the princess, whose tears lead to a trail of truth into the very land, informs the current population about why they're fighting now; she's at once a hero of the past and a martyr in the present, completely incapable of acting on her own, carrying with her the blade that will slay the crushing and violent sway of Evil for good and bring eternal peace into the land (Evil who uses her own appearance to cause chaos and violence against her own people --the blasphemy!!). The title of the game reflects this too: the Tears of the Kingdom are hers. Zelda is the kingdom here, and her pain/the pain of that mythical past is what is centered.

Also Ganondorf IS green so it's not racist okay let's stop right here and unpack all of this mess, because BOY oh boy oh boy oh boy.

oh boy.

The History

Now comes the time to point out the obvious, but that bears being repeated: this is a fictional story. It's a story crafted by a very powerful game company set in Japan. It's a story crafted by a huge number of people, who debated for years how to best tell it, why, and what for. Every single choice made in the narrative is purposeful, has been weighted against other options, and was picked over what could have been virtually anything else. Again, I want to state that I don't know if any single person took these decisions, probably not entirely, and it's even possible Nintendo didn't realize (I doubt it heavily tbh, but I'm sure there are people in the team that didn't get it or didn't see the issue), but a certain kind of story was crafted in the end, and it's the one we got.

One word that has been tossed around a lot as far as TotK's story goes is ✨ imperialism ✨, and I want to pause and take a second to analyse exactly what we mean by that and why I think it's painfully relevant here (and, honestly, I think another word would be very very relevant here also, but it's the kind of word you keep for after you're done with your argumentation not to scare off the unconvinced audience --but, to anyone who reads and might have picked it up already, yeah.)

In our real world of Earth 2023™, we have seen quite the number of extraordinarily powerful nations becoming gradually larger, engulfing neighbors, breaking apart, and leaving the buds of new future empires behind them. Hell, there's a number of them existing right now, even if they don't call themselves empires and don't have literal emperors at their head anymore (though Japan does, and it is important here). Of course, no nation, especially nations striving for expansion, worldwide legitimacy in culture and power, and their own understanding of "greatness", would ever call themselves anything but enlightened and justified. After all, the Roman Empire brings aqueducts and infrastructure to the lands they conquer, China unifies disparaging regions struggling under constant barbaric attacks, France and Spain converts local populations of the "New World" and save their souls from eternal damnation (wow thanks guysss), the British Empire brings industrial revolution uhhh everywhere please don't ask what was the cost, Africa sure loves everybody ripping their culture and lands apart and were so super glad to receive whatever "civilization" is supposed to mean when their literal people were being pillaged away to keep on building said empires using their blood as mortar, the URSS protects neighboring nations from the Evil Capital/West, fascists want to purge the world of anything they consider impure, the US brings freedom to the world and the whole world is grateful forever!!!

Everyone always has an excuse, and everyone is always kind of semi-mandated by God (in the largest possible sense; divine responsibility would perhaps be more appropriate, it's kind of the idea that with great power comes responsibility, while defining what responsibility means and inflicting their conclusions to conquered lands to squeeze even more value out of them) to do whatever the hell they want to others, claim their lands, their bodies, their minds, their culture --and demand gratefulness on top of it all to avoid having to feel bad.

There is a large body of fictional works that are dedicated to boister the image of the Empire. Every single empire has a number of them; their goal is often to mythologize, in some form or another, the story of their expansion. It often flattens every nuance, paints the actions of the empire as the natural order of the world and its opposition as morally malignant, their leaders are charismatic, benevolent, powerful and self-sacrificial. Often, it invokes previous empires to cast the current one as inheriting a grace that was tragically lost and must be restored through war, hard work, and healthy natality --I'll dip into the forbidden comparaison but Nazi Germany loved its greek myths of Sparta and Athens (and modern day fascists still do), or the Napoleon Wars so they could retell the story of their own empire by invoking a legacy of moral diligence and ethnical greatness being restored. But the pattern is often very similar: we used to be Great, a tragic event due to both external invasion and internal corruption precipitated our golden age into chaos and degeneracy, and now we must fight off current day corruption to restore the Glory of the old times we lost --all of this under the benevolent gaze of our leaders, whose mission is a direct or indirect intervention of divinity into mortal lives. It is righteous and glorious to fight/die for the nation (and its leaders) and protect it from the uncivilized, who are inhuman and exist solely to trick us, corrupt us, attack us and assimilate/destroy us.

Are we starting to notice some similarities here :) :) :)

The Narrative

There's two conversations running in parallel here.

The first one is the least important in my opinion, even though it's the one we tend to focus on a lot as theorists/enthusiasts/enjoyers of media: is Rauru oppressing the gerudos, and does that inform Ganondorf's actions?

Honestly? Textually? Probably not.

There are arguments to be made (and that deserve to be made) about the insane power imbalance, there are a lot of suspicious aspects that deserve to be picked apart like the address and deference of Ganondorf towards Rauru, the whole mining thing that I don't see being discussed much but could be a huge part of it --there are ancient mines in the gerudo region after all; since when? what's the history here?-- the strange masks the Sages are to wear when Zelda, as a direct descendant, isn't wearing any, etc etc. Lots of other posts have been made about the million tiny red flags that litter the game, but I think that if we take the game at face value, they barely matter. I would love them to have been placed with intent (and they maybe were as a desperate attempt by an employee trying to inject grayness back in the equation and if that's the case I SEE YOU random gamedev and I love you and you did the best you could <3), but to me that's more a case of wishful fan thinking (including mine tbh) that any concrete argument that the story is secretely about Rauru being imperialist and this costing him everything. There are some hints of a more nuanced world (the Horned God, the Bargainers, that some NPCs are invested in monsters are creatures worthy of study and awe --tho almost all of them ridiculed in some form), but these demand that you go out of your way to collect them and make the connection yourself. Can this even qualify as subtext? As in: the story under the story? As much as I wish this was the case, I don't think so. We can't make the case that it's a simple story for children that isn't trying to say anything grand while also demanding people to make insane mental gymnastics on their own, without any help on the game's part, for it not to be a blatant endorsement of imperialist thinking.

(especially not the kind of game that repeats 3 different times back to back that Sidon didn't talk to Yona because he was afraid to lose her like he lost Mipha --honestly what's up with this writing I don't get it, BotW didn't act like its players' brain was this unplugged, ANYWAY)

The story is about Ganondorf being duplicitous and monstrous and destroying the beautiful kingdom of the past, and us preserving our modern day kingdom from its corrupting influence by recruiting allies and friends in that fight. We are given a plethora of situations that paint him as inhumanely cruel and chaotic, and none that breath even the suggestion of a critique towards our heroes. He's evil: we must stop him.

Now comes the second conversation, and one I think is more important: is this entire storyline built off imperialist tropes that were created to oppress and exploit marginalized populations in real life while justifying the violence inflincted upon them?

In my opinion, yes. Undeniably so.

I am not so much invested in Rauru being racist towards Ganondorf; I am invested in the real life Nintendo videogame being racist towards the idea that Ganondorf represents: the scary foreigner that will lead to the fall of civilization if we let him in.

(and perhaps this was Rauru's hubris all along: to believe he could let a scary (male) foreigner in and then trust him to remain docile.... a little too much. And then he reaped what he sowed.

checkmate liberal.

This makes an uncomfortable amount of sense and I kinda hate having made the connection tbh)

This is especially true when it's the second time around that this exact storyline is represented, and I believe it to be much more insidious this time around --because now, gerudos are our friendssss and feel great shame and personal responsibility towards that aspect of them that once rebelled. Meanwhile in OoT, a majority of them were onboard with Ganondorf as their leader and explicitely did not want to be assimilated in the kindgom (Nabooru being specifically painted as one of the exceptions). I go more in depth about all of this in this pre-TotK post about gerudo culture. We had plenty of conversations about orientalism and islamophobic representation in videogames since; it was A Thing at the time, the turn of the century was particularly egregious in that regard. But It's not 1998 anymore, and I personally believe it's pretty inexcusable to rethread that same ground beat by beat without batting an eye at any of its implications (especially since they have done better since; even Twilight Princess, who gave him very little grace overall, dared to criticize hylians through Midna, Zelda and even Zant --and Wind Waker towed the line rather beautifully between the part of him that was human and the part that was monstrous, and the tragedy of these two cancelling each other out constantly). I was expecting much, much better than what we got --I didn't even dare to imagine they would just double-down on that aspect and make a worse version of Ocarina of Time to reintroduce the character.

This is also partially why I'm so uncomfortable with the green skin situation: can you imagine how this scene would have felt like, with the single brown-skinned guy having a central role in the game kneeling in front of a white old man with a droopy mustache (which was Rauru's first iteration in the series, and the one I always keep in mind when having these conversations) and his blonde wife, and Zelda being "hmmm he's evil for sure"? And then he 100% is, with no justification or reason beyond an urge to consume the entire world --even this, which is not uninteresting, remaining completely unexplored in a 150+ hour open-world game that decided to focus on everything under the sun EXCEPT Ganondorf's motivations and his relationship to his own people? Can you imagine how obvious of a racist caricature Ganondorf would have been just by keeping his skin a normal brown (not to pretend he's not already super coded as Foreign in every possible way)? The man is intimidating, uncomfortable to be around, he's greedy and power-hungry, he's insane, he comes for our lands and our women and oppresses his own and also corrupts everything through either infiltration or literal disease. Also he's uhhh the Devil, for good measure.

As much as we can rationalize and embrace these parts of who he is as fans, there's no ignoring how icky this entire situation really is.

So, to tie everything together.

There are three readings of this game competing in my head.

The first one is: the textual interpretation. Rauru is self-sacrificial and a victim, Zelda is deeply brave and an icon of the empire's longevity and deep-rooted history, Ganondorf is utterly inhuman and must be destroyed at all costs. What the game says it is --and what it is.

The second one is: the critical interpretation. That this story sounds awfully convenient for the prosperity of the Empire (here the empire being Hyrule), paints Zelda, the current leader, in a weird fanficky way by literally sending her back to the past with her super cool ancestors and allowing a military victory in the present while also being a martyr to the cause and being much more of a symbol than a person, and nobody even bats a fucking eye in the direction that Hyrule might have been questionable in any way --everyone is so happy to be a vassal, see? Let's not unpack why the king of the zoras prefered hiding himself than facing the consequences of what would happen if Zelda really did attack him out of the blue (this plot point is insane, but its potential is too good so therefore it's illegal and immediately dropped). Let's not unpack the absolute insane amount of abuse false Zelda gets away with by virtue of acting as the princess of a sacred bloodline (but she's nice, right? because that's how you want to make a sure a ruler won't hurt you: praying they will be nice). There are enough red flags to doubt this world, its reality, the complexity of these people's inner lives. The rejection of the notion that any sort of flaw or problem could exist within the system makes it borderline dystopian in my opinion (especially when compared with BotW's Hyrule, which had problems who led to its own downfall and were the fault of nobody but their own actions as Ganon is portrayed more as a natural event than an actual, malicious person), and this is the first reason why I don't like Rauru: the entire world revolves around this goat-kangaroo-furry man's chiseled navel. Everyone is, quite literally, a faceless tool in the glorious and tragic story of his lost empire (or they're women here to become sacrificial objects serving the fights of men; or they're Ganondorf, who's a non-person and an antagonistic object lacking any interiority or humanity, and the narrative being completely uninterested in that), and only his bloodline and his vision for the future really matters. Not that Rauru thinks like this --but the game does. And so, it's hard for me not to see him as either the most narcissistic person ever if we accept him as the narrator of this story, or a flat propaganda machine built for an even greater cause (Hyrule, the Empire).

And then, the third one: that Nintendo would put out a game that is so deeply embedded in imperialist and orientalist language and tropes, so invested in its traditional and patriarchal values, so uncurious about the Other and so critical of it while refusing to look inward, is not neutral (yes even if the game is super fun and has other great qualities, I do believe this game is a monumental achievement in game/level design and in optimization/tech art while also being a trainwreck in quest and narrative design). This rethoric is not neutral, especially when addressed at the West at large --especially right now, with such a global uptick in traditionalist values overall, and Japan not exactly being spared. I won't pretend to be knowledgeable enough about Japanese history and culture to pick up all the little nuances of what is going on here, but I know enough to recognize that such stories do play out a certain understanding of this country's history, its fears and its difficulties to reconcile with its own (very recent) past as a colonialist empire --both the terrors it unleashed on others and the terrors that were unleashed upon it as it was dismantled. Instead of exploring that subject, every potential for nuance and conversation and self-criticism is slammed shut immediately, often at the cost of their own characters and the depth of their quest design/writing. The unearthed past agrees with its current understanding of itself; there is nothing discovered that leads to being questioned and reconsidered. Everything wrong is the fault of a single, corrupting entity that can be identified as Foreign and Other. There is a literal Heaven (zonai and civilized, Rauru's) and Hell (monstrous and corroding, Ganon's). None of this is neutral. Especially when infused in a game targeted for a young audience lacking context.

So I hope this very verbose answer helped a little to parse out what is being criticized at which level! Thank you for giving your thoughts, and I hope mine were clarifying to a degree.

I understand it can get a little confusing; but a lot of the urge not to take this scene at face value is born from the knowledge that nothing is ever that simple in real life, that these sort of self-serving narratives often hide horrific amounts of systemic harm underneath its perfectly curated presentation, and that, well. Some Zelda fans, especially the older generations that were invested in these characters and their re-imagining, expected Nintendo to be less..... like this.

And the wake-up call stings a little more than we would have liked.

(again obligatory disclaimer that I'm not saying TotK is Bad or should be Cancelled or that you're Bad for liking it --but it's still important to explicitly talk about how themes like these are being utterly glossed over when I don't think they would have been if they'd come out of a new IP, and not with the huge nostalgia cloud that envelops The Legend of Zelda and has people being extremely uncomfortable at criticizing the ideas the series can sometimes champion --though the series never veered in that direction nearly as hard before in my opinion)