#anti dany stans

[the-daily-dreamer]

Reminder that if your feminism revolves around propping up women that partake in traditionally masculine activities/roles and shitting on or even hating women who embody traditionally feminine roles and enjoy feminine activities you’re not really a feminist.

It sets the precedent that women are only valuable and valid if they have traditionally masculine traits, which feeds a narrative that masculine traits are better simply because they are associated with men who are the ideal. It perpetuates the idea that things that are feminine and traditionally associated with women are in fact inferior to men/masculinity and should be looked down upon and belittled.

And, it alienates so many individuals that feel more comfortable in femininity, regardless of gender identity.

I think people in the ASOIAF fandom really need to learn this because feminine characters are so despised on the basis that they are not “better” women. Simply because they don’t embody traditionally masculine things like conquering or fighting.

Much of the hate comes from stans that love characters like Rhaenyra, Daenerys, and Arya (and do not get me wrong I love Arya), who are women and girls that are in positions that allow for more traditionally masculine behaviors and tomboyishness. And they will say incredibly sexist things about how the other women in media are inferior and directly contrast these women to their faves negatively by pointing out that they’re “too weak” or “subservient”. They reduce femininity to weakness and bowing to patriarchy instead of considering that some people have a different, more feminine nature. And that is OK! Just because a woman isn’t wielding a sword or fighting on the front lines or pursuing leadership roles in masculine ways (because historically women exacted and sought power in different ways than men) doesn’t mean they aren’t valuable and strong characters. Do not use feminine characters as a negative comparison to show how “feminist” and great your fave is. Because it’s just so blatantly sexist.

Don’t fall into the trap of reinforcing patriarchal rhetoric!!! Don’t reinforce narratives that traditional masculinity is superior to femininity!! Don’t belittle feminine activities and act as if they aren’t valuable!!! Girbosses are great but so are gentlewomen.

[rise-my-angel]

Why yes literally everything about Mirri Maz Duur is what causes me to call everything Dany does, especially in relation to slavery, into question because what Dany does or does not do to help slaves has always led to her recieving great amounts of power for herself and no one else.

Why was it alright for Dany to encite slaves to rebel against their masters but it wasn't alright for Mirri?

If Dany was sure Mirri did it on purpose why do they both seem to talk around the issue as if one of them is avoiding the truth and which one of them ultimately dies in the most, cruel, horrific of manners before that truth is revealed?

Why should Mirri care about Rhaego when his would be parents are still Mirri's masters/enslavers?

Why if Mirri didn't want to help did she give specific instructions to Drogo and Dany which are explicitly not followed and thus it gets worse naturally?

If Mirri wanted to always do this why did she try and warn Dany that allowing Drogo to die naturally would be a cleaner way, and only did it after her master told her to do it?

If burning Mirri was only about justice why does it seem to match terrifyingly close to the tragedy at Summerhall except she actually doesn't actually suffer ANY of the loses that Aegon did and she ONLY gets exactly what she wanted out of it? Which was dragons.

This isn't a fair execution of a criminal. This is Dany sacrificing her slave in a horrific fashion in order to try and recreate the attempt of reviving Dragons of Summerhall, under the guise of getting vengeance on her own slave who at worst, rebelled against her masters.

Mirri wasn't Dany getting vengeance. Dany used Mirri as an excuse to use blood magic to succeed where Aegon at Summerhall failed.

[saltywinteradult]

oh, d*ny stans. never change.

[crimsonbastard]

That's it. I've had it with these brain-dead takes

Rightful Queen:

Firstly, what the fuck do you mean when you say Rightful? There's no "Rightful" monarch in ASOIAF. There are only the ones who are elected as per the laws in which the Realm Functions. So There's only Lawful Queen or Lawful King.

Daenerys: Wasn't the Rightful Queen by blood, but by conquest (mass murdering an entire city that surrendered), but even then, she had contenders to the Throne in the form of her nephew. Her family was deposed through rebellion and they were in exile.

The throne no longer belonged to her unless she forcefully claimed it back. After Robert's death, the crown goes to Stannis, the next in line, followed by Shireen, considering Robert's children aren't his. But since all the legitimate Baratheons died and Gendry wasn't legitimized yet, the Lannisters covertly took the crown by continuing to pose Cersei's children as true borns (the children atleast took after one of the parents, making the argument for their legitimacy somwhat strong, Unlike Rhaenyra).

Daenerys took Kingslanding by force, decimating the city and it's populace with Dragon Fire and seated herself on the Throne. So yes, she has become the Lawful Queen by right of Conquest, all that's left is to eliminate the equally Lawful Contender to the throne, it being Jon.

Rhaenyra: Despite Viserys i (who was the younger of the two candidates, but got elected over Rhaenys who was older than him) naming her as his heir after Aemma's and Baelon's death he never really prepares her to rule in the future. He doesn't teach her the ways of Politics, nor does he reinforce the line of succession. He instead puts his daughter's claim in jeaprody and remarries, and sires THREE LEGITIMATE SONS. As unfair as it sounds, Westeros follows Male Primogeniture, the very system that made Viserys i heir to the throne over Rhaenys. As long as Aegon ii, Aemond and Daeron lived, Rhaenyra would always have challengers to the Throne.

"Half-Blooded" Murderer named Aegon:

Funny how TB thinks just because someone's Half-Targ (half inbred), It automatically makes them less of a claimant to the throne. Paternity goes a long way in Westeros.

Aegon ii is the first born son of King Viserys ii Targaryen and Queen Alicent Hightower. He's the result of a legitimate marriage between two ancient and powerful houses. He was anointed by a Septon of the Faith, crowned with thousands as a witness. As shitty as his character is in the show, he's a more legitimate claimant to the throne compared to Rhaenyra and her illegitimate children.

Jon Snow (Aegon) being confirmed to be R+L=J in the show doesn't make him a "half-blood" by any chance. He's the Son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. The show states that Rhaengar annulled his marriage with Elia Martell, making Jon a "legitimate" (as per TB) contender to the throne.

There's also the implication of the term "half-blooded" used in the post. Just because Jon and Aegon ii are half Targaruen doesn't make them less of a claimant. It also sheds light on the Targaryen Exceptionalism that TB drinks like kool-aid. Anyone who's non-targ or is half-targ and isn't on the Targaryen side is automatically treated as lesser.

[atopvisenyashill]

how many times do i have to see “you’re a slavery apologist for disliking dany” before someone actually gives a good answer to “so why is dany allowed to profit from slavery & keep slaves herself”

the answer is “i will be waiting until i am dead and buried.”

[blackcat419]

Friendly reminder that Mirri was unjustly killed by her enslaver and was right about Dany.

If you disagree save your breath for someone who gives a shit

[duchessofferia]

Someone needs to make a full list of all that cowardly, namby-pamby language ASOIAF bitches use to describe Mirri Maz Duur’s specific form of death - “executing,” “disposing of,” “sacrificing,” etc - so they can avoid ruining their carefully maintained facade of progressivism by saying “I believe that sometimes it is morally acceptable for gangrape survivors to be publicly tortured to death” with their whole chests

[president-and-godemperor-forlife]

Me on Twitter peacefully talking to another asoiaf fan: Dany makes a profit off slavery by taxing it and using it to fund her war for the IT.

Dany stans butting in: Wow! I can’t believe you think slavery should be tAx ExeMPt. You’re dISgUsTiNG.

I can’t believe some people are so fucking stupid.

[alicenttully]

if the speculation about dyana's storyline and the framing of it is correct, then it's just going to highlight the racism (can you expose something that's already well known?) of the GOT/ASOIAF audience who make up HOTD's viewership.

it's going to expose their racism if they give all the sympathy/understanding in the world to dyana (btw please refrain this from trying to twist this into me saying she would be unworthy of the audience's kindness) that they refused to give mirri maz durr.

many people believe that mirri murdered rhaego (even though the case for it is weak at best) in revenge against dany for the suffering she experienced at the hands of dany's husband. these same people won't bat an eye when mirri is later burned alive because their reasoning is well, she killed a baby, an innocent. ftr its actually perfectly valid and reasonable and morally correct to not want to defend the murder of children so if people were consistent there wouldn't be an issue.

but because people aren't consistent, if my predictions are correct then it'll will do for me personally is send a message that brutal acts of revenge involving children are justified when it's coming from someone who is young, white, and pretty. however, it's suddenly not OK when it's coming from a character who is a woc and is protrayed as not attractive (ftr when it comes to mirri's looks, we're getting dany's biased perspective)

i also don't think its just a class thing either. elia martell is of ultra highborn nobility, and yet so much of the fandom will demonize the martells for not wanting to move on from the injustices that were committed against her. and what do you know elia isn't white.

[the-daily-dreamer]

Thinking about how the writers at the end of GOT season 8 had Tyrion explicitly explain Dark!Dany in painstaking detail and her fans just said nah

[rise-my-angel]

Jon Snow, the man who thought burning a man alive was so utterly cruel and inhumane, very publically defied a Kings orders in front of him, and everyone else in attendance, by showing Mance Rayder mercy and shooting an arrow into his heart before the fire could start to engulf him.

Yes I understand why he'd side with miss "I literally dream about my enemies dying screaming as I burn them alive on mass".

Totally justified, the man whose uncle and grandfather were also burned alive, would ever side with the burns alive with flying flame thrower queen whose father was the one who burned his uncle and grandfather alive.

I'm sure Brandon and Rickard Starks deaths had absolutely no impact on the manner in which Jon grew up as someone who thinks burning people alive is a monstrous way to execute someone. I'm sure it doesn't greatly bother him to watch people die the way his uncle and grandfather were murdered.

But hes got secret targ blood so who cares.

[saltywinteradult]

my villain origin story: the idea that criticising dany's complete failure to replace an economy based on slavery with any kind of viable alternative, leading to slaver's bay descending into chaos and suffering on a massive scale, is the same thing as defending slavery.

[crimsonbastard]

A "Hot take" I came across in Instagram

Remember kids. A Targaryen woman can demand your freshly mutilated child to be tortured just because he said the truth of her siring obvious bastards that weakens her claim to the throne which in results in your legitimate kids being favoured as candidates which in turn results in their lives being endangered.

A Targaryen woman can threaten the independence of your land, the independence that you've fought tooth and nail to reclaim just because she thought herself to be the "rightful heir" to a throne that no longer belonged to her as her family got deposed off of it. So she brings an army of savages who are infamous for r*ping and pillaging and taking women and children as slaves, a slave army and the medieval equivalent of three nukes to "reclaim" her throne. (Just call it conquest ffs)

And there's nothing that you can do about it. Raise any objection and you'll be the villain.

[atopvisenyashill]

"Daenerys has done a lot of wrongs" and said are killing slavers

thanks for this one actually because you gave me an excuse to talk about that for a bit.

now first of all - i find it very frustrating that when people say “this was wrong” everyone defaults to “why do you care about slavers” when usually, when i’m talking about things dany has done wrong, i’m talking about mirri maz durr, sacking astapor, sexually abusing irri, and taking a profit off slavery. mirri wasn’t a slaver, she was a slave, and she was blood sacrificed by dany. sacking a city, regardless of who is in that city, is always messy and bad - ask Cleos the Butcher and the people he rules over how they feel about the Sack. Ask the people of King's Landing how they feel about their houses being set on fire every few decades. Ask Missandei how she really feels watching the woman she put all her faith in take a cut off the selling of slaves. Hell, Dany knows that Irri does not want to have sex with her and is doing it because she feels "obligated" because she's a slave and Dany still uses her as a bed warmer and then bars her from expressing an interest in Rakharo because she doesn't believe Irri is ~worthy~ of Rakharo (worthy to fuck but not to love and don't I fucking know about attitudes like that coming from white straight girls lmao).

But let's move past all of that (you certainly seem uninterested in talking about the personhood of slaves like Missandei and Mirri after all, despite ostensibly defending them here) and dig into the crucifying of the Great Masters. In fact, let's turn to Dany's own thoughts over this, bolded part mine:

In the plaza before the Great Pyramid, the Meereenese huddled forlorn. The Great Masters had looked anything but great in the morning light. Stripped of their jewels and their fringed tokars, they were contemptible; a herd of old men with shriveled balls and spotted skin and young men with ridiculous hair. Their women were either soft and fleshy or as dry as old sticks, their face paint streaked by tears. “I want your leaders,” Dany told them. “Give them up, and the rest of you shall be spared.” “How many?” one old woman had asked, sobbing. “How many must you have to spare us?” “One hundred and sixty-three,” she answered. She had them nailed to wooden posts around the plaza, each man pointing at the next. The anger was fierce and hot inside her when she gave the command; it made her feel like an avenging dragon. But later, when she passed the men dying on the posts, when she heard their moans and smelled their bowels and blood… Dany put the glass aside, frowning. It was just. It was. I did it for the children.

Immediately after doing it, Dany regrets it. She recognizes she did it while angry and impassioned and reckless, and that the deaths were agonizing, that she did it not for the children but because she was angry and humiliated. This scene has never been as righteously clean morally than people would believe from the moment it was on page! She recognizes she did a fucked up thing but rationalizes it away because she can't admit she made a mistake. She reflects on it later again as she's ruling Meereen:

She had not forgotten the slave children nailed up along the road from Yunkai. They had numbered one hundred sixty-three, a child every mile, nailed to mileposts with one arm outstretched to point her way. After Meereen had fallen, Dany had nailed up a like number of Great Masters. Swarms of flies had attended their slow dying, and the stench had lingered long in the plaza. Yet some days she feared that she had not gone far enough. These Meereenese were a sly and stubborn people who resisted her at every turn. They had freed their slaves, yes … only to hire them back as servants at wages so meagre that most could scarce afford to eat. Those too old or young to be of use had been cast into the streets, along with the infirm and the crippled. And still the Great Masters gathered atop their lofty pyramids to complain of how the dragon queen had filled their noble city with hordes of unwashed beggars, thieves, and whores. To rule Meereen I must win the Meereenese, however much I may despise them.

She lets the bodies of the people she wants to rule rot, the smell lingering in the plaza for weeks, reminding the people she is trying to make peace with that she can and will viciously murder their families and gloat over their corpses and they cannot stop her. Then doesn't put in any rules about wages, anything to help the sick and disabled. She blames the Great Masters for working within the system they've had for generations despite yelling at them to get a new system and doing nothing to help them move to that new system. She judges them, she hates them, and she wonders why she has the Meereneese version of the KKK springing up afterwards. She is just as ineffective as Andrew Johnson is during Reconstruction, too focused on her own feelings to look objectively at what this destroyed city actually needs from her, instead judging them from her own lofty pyramid with her own slaves and her own superior culture and mopes about how much she wants the Seven Kingdoms.

SHE is the one who decided she was going to rule this place. But instead of focusing on reconciliation, she focuses in on revenge. And that is why she sets herself up to fail.

[lemoncakz]

ijbol— targ stans / aria stans have to villianize sansa to justify their unjustified extreme hate towards her. they will blame a child for her own fathers death and her own abuse before realizing their hate is beyond unreasonable compared to the actual terrible people in asoiaf.

sansa is a “villian” because she rightfully so didn’t trust dani and she was right to distrust her!! look at king’s landing— do you a genocidal tyrant to be your ruler? no i don’t think so

[agentrouka-blog]

Jaime: Aerys II filled KL with wildfire and wanted to burn the whole thing to the ground when faced with defeat. On purpose! Because he had a volatile temper and a deeply emotional relationship with fire and this was the most effective way to create a massive conflagration to go out in a blaze of glory?

GRRM: Did you know that historically some Targs became obsessed with wildfire in order to replace their lost dragons, either building fake ones or even drinking it to become a literal dragon? They crave the power of dragons so badly? Wildfire is just a stand-in for dragonflame?

Targ stans: I can't believe Cersei/JonCon/"literally anyone but the one who recently recreated dragons and just discovered how awesome hunting from dragonback is" is going to burn KL with wildfire. How thematically appropriate yet tragic. 😔 The dragons are totally a good thing though, their purpose is for something heroic. 😌