#pro jon snow

[crimsonbastard]

That's it. I've had it with these brain-dead takes

Rightful Queen:

Firstly, what the fuck do you mean when you say Rightful? There's no "Rightful" monarch in ASOIAF. There are only the ones who are elected as per the laws in which the Realm Functions. So There's only Lawful Queen or Lawful King.

Daenerys: Wasn't the Rightful Queen by blood, but by conquest (mass murdering an entire city that surrendered), but even then, she had contenders to the Throne in the form of her nephew. Her family was deposed through rebellion and they were in exile.

The throne no longer belonged to her unless she forcefully claimed it back. After Robert's death, the crown goes to Stannis, the next in line, followed by Shireen, considering Robert's children aren't his. But since all the legitimate Baratheons died and Gendry wasn't legitimized yet, the Lannisters covertly took the crown by continuing to pose Cersei's children as true borns (the children atleast took after one of the parents, making the argument for their legitimacy somwhat strong, Unlike Rhaenyra).

Daenerys took Kingslanding by force, decimating the city and it's populace with Dragon Fire and seated herself on the Throne. So yes, she has become the Lawful Queen by right of Conquest, all that's left is to eliminate the equally Lawful Contender to the throne, it being Jon.

Rhaenyra: Despite Viserys i (who was the younger of the two candidates, but got elected over Rhaenys who was older than him) naming her as his heir after Aemma's and Baelon's death he never really prepares her to rule in the future. He doesn't teach her the ways of Politics, nor does he reinforce the line of succession. He instead puts his daughter's claim in jeaprody and remarries, and sires THREE LEGITIMATE SONS. As unfair as it sounds, Westeros follows Male Primogeniture, the very system that made Viserys i heir to the throne over Rhaenys. As long as Aegon ii, Aemond and Daeron lived, Rhaenyra would always have challengers to the Throne.

"Half-Blooded" Murderer named Aegon:

Funny how TB thinks just because someone's Half-Targ (half inbred), It automatically makes them less of a claimant to the throne. Paternity goes a long way in Westeros.

Aegon ii is the first born son of King Viserys ii Targaryen and Queen Alicent Hightower. He's the result of a legitimate marriage between two ancient and powerful houses. He was anointed by a Septon of the Faith, crowned with thousands as a witness. As shitty as his character is in the show, he's a more legitimate claimant to the throne compared to Rhaenyra and her illegitimate children.

Jon Snow (Aegon) being confirmed to be R+L=J in the show doesn't make him a "half-blood" by any chance. He's the Son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. The show states that Rhaengar annulled his marriage with Elia Martell, making Jon a "legitimate" (as per TB) contender to the throne.

There's also the implication of the term "half-blooded" used in the post. Just because Jon and Aegon ii are half Targaruen doesn't make them less of a claimant. It also sheds light on the Targaryen Exceptionalism that TB drinks like kool-aid. Anyone who's non-targ or is half-targ and isn't on the Targaryen side is automatically treated as lesser.

[montyluvsjasper]

"It's such bad writing (insert stark) didn't like with Dany!!"

Yeah if you came to my house treating my brother like a play toy, threatened someone and acted like you're "doing me favor" when in fact this is the only time the army of the dead will be small enough to defeat.

I'm not sure I'd fall at your feet and worship you as a liberator in a country my families spilt blood and sacrifice freed.

[raventrigonsdaughter]

How do i explain to people im a Daenerys stan but i hate jonerys now in both the show cause she can do better and in the books cause they would work perfectly as bros and i really don't need George's creep ass writting any more romance for his characters specially the ones who are minors

[starrynights23]

Jon. It should have been you.

Mayhaps the whore will die in childbirth.

[aelsie]

With House of the Dragon coming out in a few days, thoughts of the OG dragon mama are resurfacing and how her story went *crying in anguish* Why?! 😩

So, it’s time to again repeat my mantra: I reject your reality and substitute my own. And in MY reality, Dany and Jon have taken their place as the ultimate dragon riding power couple as a just woman and honorable man with rockin outfits, ruling over the seven kingdoms happily with three beautiful children, who call Ser Davos, grandpa Davos and who they get little wooden dragon toys from. And you can’t change my mind, ya monsters, ya can’t!!! *cue running off the stage maniacally*

[starryrosebud]

Arya Stark Month 2022 - Day 3 (Jon Snow)

The relationship between Arya and Jon, literally defines their personalities, friends and mindset. They since the beginning have as a main goal to meet each other again.

“I think so," Arya said.

"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."

“She went back to the window, Needle in hand, and looked down into the courtyard below. If only she could climb like Bran, she thought; she would go out the window and down the tower, run away from this horrible place, away from Sansa and Septa Mordane and Prince Joffrey, from all of them. Steal some food from the kitchens, take Needle and her good boots and a warm cloak. She could find Nymeria in the wild woods below the Trident, and together they’d return to Winterfell, or run to Jon on the Wall. She found herself wishing that Jon was here with her now. Then maybe she wouldn’t feel so alone.”

“She would have given anything if Jon had been here to call her “little sister” and muss her hair.”

[batista12362585]

Really, like Jonerys Fan.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/19021168/chapters/66228512#main

https://archiveofourown.org/works/31505234/chapters/79837438

Sometimes, I feel disappointed in what the fandom has become. Hate stories no more. The fans, Jon Stan and Daenerys Stan, hating each other. And instead of blaming those responsible for these who are the D&D producers. They just attack each other in your posts whether they're here on Tumblr or anywhere else. No longer can one read any Jonerys story without the attacks on other characters coming out. I understand the hatred of the Stark clan in the last season, but it's toxic hatred, it extends to Pre-Season eight stories, even before the start of the  series/books proper. It has degenerated into a toxic hate culture. Not better than the Jonsa, but they are at least more united. A little.

The next AO3 user, FairyDream, never approved of my comments. You already know him from other posts I made, where the so-called “Jonerys Stan”, which is more of a “Dany Stan”. He only dedicates himself to promoting and writing stories where Jon's character is denigrated. That added to the displays of racism and xenophobia against Northerners, and all those who are from the North. I wouldn't have a problem with this behavior, if they were just “fictional characters”, but when in his last story, he promotes male rape, he is a NO, from me.

Here is my unapproved comment, which explains everything I mean:

“ In this story of yours, while I understand the hatred towards the Starks now, more than anything from the Targaryen loyalists, the inclusion of Jon now bothers me. Because it just presents a sharp divide, as Jon Snow is both Stark and Targaryen. To hate the Stark part of him would be to hate his mother Lyanna for that, and it's a mistake most Jonerys authors don't seem to understand. also the fact that rape was committed against a man here, in this case Jon, who was drugged by Tormund and Ygritte, and such a crime should be reported. Instead, we worry about Daenerys, because her "feelings and emotions of her" are more important than the sexual crime perpetrated against Jon. This case, which should be aberrant, seems to be an indiscriminate display of indifference not only towards Jon Snow, but towards the entire male gender. I have a feeling that, if it were Daenerys, the sexually assaulted one, many who comment here would already ask for justice for her. Denoting her hypocrisy and her double standards. It's a dark time to be a Jon Stan. Like the Daenerys Stan they destroy all the other characters, just in order to put theirs on a pedestal. 

Jon Snow's new TV show coming up. created by Kit and George RR Martin himself. It will further multiply the hate. Too bad this split in the fandom, the Books will never end, is possible with George Martin working on this show post-8th season. We'll never know what Jonerys would have been like in the books. And we will be left with all this eternal hatred within this fandom. Anyway, maybe this comment will be censored, since it does not praise the author, I just hope it is reasonable enough to understand, that it was not a pejorative criticism, but more towards the attitude that lately, populate within this fandom. Peace.“

That's it. The following news of HBO's “next Jon Snow show”, I hope it fester wounds, and make all those Dany Stans foam with rage, who have deserved it for their toxicity.

[daenerystargaryen06]

"How beautiful, the queen tried to tell herself, but inside her was some foolish little girl who could not help but look about for Daario. If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl, the girl in her insisted, but the queen knew that was folly..." -A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII

"I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb." -A Storm of Swords -Jon XII

Daenerys wanting Daario to carry her off at sword point, and Jon thinking of stealing Val for her love. Two parallels of one girl wanting to be stolen, and one boy wanting to steal someone. Both for love.

"None of them had ever seen a direwolf before, he realized, and Ghost was twice as large as the common wolves that prowled their southron greenwoods. As he walked toward the armory, Jon chanced to look up and saw Val standing in her tower window. I'm sorry, he thought. I'm not the man to steal you out of there." -A Storm of Swords - Jon XII

"Even if her captain was mad enough to attempt it, the Brazen Beasts would cut him down before he got within a hundred yards of her." -A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII

Jon is sorry he can't steal away Val, and Daenerys reflects on the fact that even if Daario did attempt to carry her off at sword point, he'd be cut down.

Both Jon and Daenerys have a sense of romanticism in their POV's. Both are hopeless romantics (perhaps Daenerys more so than Jon in a sense). Both want love, despite denying it deep down. Jon because he's a man of the Night's Watch and a bastard. Daenerys because she is a Queen over her people and accepts duty over giving in to "girlish" thoughts.

Both had found love within confinement. Jon having fallen for Ygritte while pretending to be on the Freefolk's side. Daenerys having found a twisted love in Drogo after being sold to him as a bridal slave. Both were coerced into sexual relations with Ygritte and Drogo. Both had to watch Ygritte and Drogo die (and Dany killed Drogo out of mercy).

"He found Ygritte sprawled across a patch of old snow beneath the Lord Commander's Tower, with an arrow between her breasts. The ice crystals had settled over her face, and in the moonlight it looked as though she wore a glittering silver mask [...] "Oh." Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she sighed, dying. -A Storm of Swords - Jon VII

"And when the bleak dawn broke over an empty horizon, Dany knew that he was truly lost to her. “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” she said sadly. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When my womb quickens again, and I bear a living child. Then you will return, my sun-and-stars, and not before.” Never, the darkness cried, never never never. Inside the tent Dany found a cushion, soft silk stuffed with feathers. She clutched it to her breasts as she walked back out to Drogo, to her sun-and-stars. If I look back I am lost. It hurt even to walk, and she wanted to sleep, to sleep and not to dream. She knelt, kissed Drogo on the lips, and pressed the cushion down across his face." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

Both Jon and Daenerys have also found interest again after the deaths of Ygritte and Drogo. Jon wants Val, and Daenerys sleeps with Daario and may perhaps love him, but doubts over her relations with Daario. Both focus on their duties over giving in to what they really want. Daenerys even marries again for peace over giving in to what she really wants.

Both Jon and Daenerys think of having children, but push away the ideal. Jon due to being a member of the Night's Watch and a bastard. Daenerys due to thinking she is barren/cursed by Mirri Maz Duur and can never again have a child born from her.

Jon reflects that if he ever had a son, he'd name him Robb after his brother. Daenerys when pregnant with Drogo's child names her son Rhaego after her brother.

Jon is the secret son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Lyanna is associated with blue winter roses:

"He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood." -A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

"Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion's crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost." -A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

When Daenerys has visions in the House of the Undying, she sees the Wall:

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . ." -A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Jon is the 'blue flower' she sees growing from the wall of ice, filling the air with 'sweetness'. Jon is Lyanna's son. Both carry blue flower representation.

Jon also wants to know everything there is about his mother; who she was, if she loved him, what sort of person she was. Just alike to how Daenerys wants to learn and know everything she can about Rhaegar, as she also idolizes him in a sense. Both have thoughts about these people. Jon constantly thinks about his mother (Lyanna even if he does not know yet who she is); Daenerys often thinks of Rhaegar (despite never knowing him). Both think of these people despite them already being gone from the world, and both only wish they could have known who they truly were as people and can only guess how Lyanna and Rhaegar would've thought or acted.

Jon thinks of having dragons at the Wall:

"We should have twenty trebuchets, not two, and they should be mounted on sledges and turntables so we could move them. It was a futile thought. He might as well wish for another thousand men, and maybe a dragon or three." -A Storm of Swords - Jon VIII

When Jon dies, Daenerys hears a wolf howling in the distance:

"Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the grasslands, Dany slipped at last into a restless sleep." -A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys X

Both have an association/thought relating to one another's animal sigil/companion. Jon thinks of wishing for three dragons (Daenerys' house sigil and her dragon children). Daenerys hears a wolf howling when Jon dies, making her feel sad and lonely (Jon's house sigil through Lyanna/Ned and his direwolf Ghost).

Both Jon and Daenerys dream of home. Daenerys with the house with the red door and the lemon tree. Jon with Winterfell.

Both are estranged from their families (Jon being at the Wall. Daenerys being in Essos and the last of her family having died).

Both have lost their brothers in different means. Both have had their mothers die from childbirth and never got to meet them. Both of their fathers (Rhaegar and Aerys) died during the Rebellion.

Both had arcs of leadership and rule, and struggle with their decisions and making hard choices. Jon winds up killed due to his choices at the end of ADWD, and Daenerys becomes stranded in the Dothraki Sea due to her choice of saving Drogon (and her people from Drogon) from the fighting pit and escaping on dragonback.

While Daenerys thinks of taking the IT as a duty due to being the last of her family and Viserys' last living heir, Jon admits to wanting to become Lord of Winterfell but turning the opportunity away.

[babybells123]

People who make entire blogs dedicated to being anti jonsa, and then bait it by conveying a user such as “jonsa…” are actually so fucking weird. I’m begging y’all to get a job , my god . If you don’t like a ship , then don’t interact with it and perhaps engage with the ship that you actually like and are passionate about. Stop stalking the Jonsa tag to laugh and giggle about it with your friends and then make intentionally misleading posts and accounts to lure shippers in bc I guess we’re just the most hateful disgusting people in the fandom and deserve to rot and be ridiculed. Please get a life !!!

[montyluvsjasper]

You ever think about how, Jon could've sent Arya to kill Dany. She could've done it and slipped out as if she was never there. It would've been ruled as Cersei's last defense against a Usurper. After all sacking the Tyrell's would've given her enough gold to hire a faceless man. Jon would've been crowned and no one would ever had to have known.

But he didn't, because we are told two things in the first episodes.

The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

Starks do crazy things to protect their families.

The stabbing scene down to dragon burning the throne on front of him was symbolic of Jon Snow ultimately choosing his Stark heritage and the North.

[silverflameataraxia]

"Most times," Jon answered in a flat voice.  "But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them."

AGoT, Jon I

Nymeria was waiting for her in the guardroom at the base of the stairs. She bounded to her feet as soon as she caught sight of Arya. Arya grinned. The wolf pup loved her, even if no one else did. They went everywhere together, and Nymeria slept in her room, at the foot of her bed. If Mother had not forbidden it, Arya would gladly  have taken the wolf with her to needlework.  Let Septa Mordane complain about her stitches then.

"A shade more fun than needlework," Arya gave back at him. Jon grinned, reached over, and messed up her hair.  Arya flushed. They had always been close. Jon had their father's face, as she did. They were the only ones. Robb and Sansa and Bran and even little Rickon all took after the Tullys, with easy smiles and fire in their hair. When Arya had been little, she had been afraid that meant that she was a bastard too. It had been Jon she had gone to in her fear, and Jon who had reassured her.

AGoT, Arya I

Alone and humiliated, Sansa took the long way back to the inn, where she knew Septa Mordane would be waiting. Lady padded quietly by her side. She was almost in tears. All she wanted was for things to be nice and pretty,  the way they were in the songs. Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Marcella? She would have liked a sister like that.

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their Lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn't been some mistake. Perhaps the grumkins had stolen her real sister. But Mother had only laughed and said no, Arya was her daughter and Sansa's trueborn sister, blood of their blood. Sansa could not think why Mother would want to lie about it, so she supposed it had to be true.

AGoT, Sansa I

Jon and Arya have always felt out of place in life, but they've always found their home with each other.

[sometimes-petty]

Tycho Nestoris is the most character ever, dude shows up, demolishes any dragon nostalgia anyone dared to have, speedruns through the North trying to collect a debt from no one other than the king, and still has time to pick up the two most wanted notables of the realm

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

Team Green: Sorry your faves are boring 😊🤷‍♂️ Sure you're supposed to root for the Blacks but the Greens are just more fun. Jace is boring I'm here for my angsty disaster mess 💚

You realise that's bad writing, right? This is a family civil war drama. One side of that family civil war shouldn't be populated with blank slates. If no effort is made into making Rhaenyra and Daemon's children as fleshed out as Alicent's children then that is bad writing.

Some people find the Lannisters more fun than the Starks, but the Starks are still fleshed out characters (and considering in the books Jace is 14/15, Luke is 13, Joffrey, Baela & Rhaena are 12, Aegon the younger is 9 and Viserys is 7 - these kids ages almost map straight onto the Starklings so they were so meant to be our Targlings). It didn't have to be a zero sum "you can only have ONE side that's interesting". The show is poorer for it. Game of Thrones was a disaster in many ways, but at least the different sides of the conflict had equal screen time and attention.

How hard would it have been to flesh out Jace, or at least give him a half-decent haircut? He could have been a mirror to Jon Snow (they technically have the same initials). One is a bastard who does not know he's a targaryen prince, the other is a targaryen prince who discovers he is a bastard. In a world that hates bastards, that insists they are 'wanton and treacherous by nature', there was plenty of potential to explore some complicated emotions, to give weight to how he feels about being a bastard. The whispers that would have followed him, the scrutiny he would have felt, the internalised guilt and shame, his protectiveness over his little brothers and wish to spare them the truth. Maybe after Alicent confronted Aegon over the pig there could have been a shift where Aegon turns his bullying away from Aemond and towards Jace (more in keeping with book canon). Maybe Jace could feel anxious about lessons with Criston Cole due to his open hatred of him. Maybe he could be equal parts devoted to and resentful of his mother over his parentage, maybe he could be driven to perfectionism to prove himself worthy.

The show made Jace more violent in the fight with Aemond than in the book, by changing who started the fight (from Aemond to Rhaena and co.), by narrowing the age gap to make Jace more of a match for Aemond, and by having him draw a knife instead of a wooden toy sword. But they didn't earn that moment. How much more satisfying would it have been if both Aemond and Jace were given equal emotional weight in the build-up to the fight? If the hurt and anxiety at discovering he was a bastard had been building and building until it burst out. The entire reason the show changed the age dynamic between Rhaenyra and Alicent to make them peers and best friends was supposedly to make their conflict more dramatic - why would you then drop that approach with their kids? How does it make the civil war story better if one half of the next generation of characters aren't really characters?

They didn't even have to put much effort into Baela, as GRRM already had her brimming with personality on the page, but they just... ignored that and made her a non-entity. Oh she gets one punch in, and there's a blink and you'll miss it background shot of her trying to hit Aegon (at this point I don't think the actors were even directed to do that I think they just took it upon themselves). Meanwhile Baela in the books is wild and fearless and deliberately provocative and quick to anger and fiercely defensive of her loved ones and wrestles squires in the training yard and has a pet monkey and sneaks out in search of adventure and brings home 'unsuitable' friends. Including a legless beggar, a blacksmith's apprentice whose muscles she admired, a street conjurer, twin prostitutes and an entire troupe of mummers. And she alarms everyone due to being 'overly fond of boys' and gets epic lines like this when it is suggested she marry Lord Rowan:

“I’ve bedded two of his sons. The eldest and thirdborn, I think it was. Not both at once, that would have been improper.”

She could have been an absolutely chaotic presence onscreen. Rhaena meanwhile is a little more like Sansa to Baela's Arya, but would have needed more work to flesh her out onscreen. Her insecurities and wish for a dragon seemed promising at first, but they were dropped as soon as Aemond lost his eye. Because that was ultimately the narrative purpose she served - to provide a new reason for the fight to start that wasn't Aemond hitting and pushing a toddler into a pile of dragon poo. She helps Aemond's image by being the one to start the fight instead of him, and from then on she becomes a voiceless non-entity. We watch Aemond fly away victoriously on Vhagar, we don't see Rhaena tearfully watching the last link to her mother vanish over the horizon.

Considering the prominent role of bastards during the dance (especially the dragonseeds), the uninterest in exploring bastardy in Jace makes little sense. Considering the centrality of gender to the story (and considering a certain event involving key players during the dance), the lack of effort into Baela and Rhaena makes zero sense (the show doesn't even bring up their right to Driftmark in an episode dedicated to discussing the rightful heir to Driftmark).

Considering especially that in fantasy black women are so often consigned to minor Missandei roles, the fact that we were robbed of Baela and Rhaena as main characters particularly stings. Baela in particular was an easy fan favourite in the book, and its a role that black women and girls so rarely get to play. If you had told me before the show that Helaena would be a fan favourite over Baela, I wouldn't have believed it. And don't get me wrong, I like that they fleshed out Helaena in the show, like Rhaena she didn't have much of a presence in the book. But it is so typical that the relative non-entity that they kept white gets to be fleshed out, while the more fleshed out character that they made black becomes a non-entity. And Helaena is skinny now, of course (all love to Phia Saban, but I am mourning plump Helaena).

And don't get me started on Kylo Raemond.

[catofoldstones]

The thing about arya fans' argument that arya comes before sansa in the line of succession because robb disinherited her because of her forced marriage is the underlying misogyny and victim blaming of it, and their assumption that grrm thinks the same. We don't have jon [you know the actual person robb chose over sansa, and i think its time we start talking that the will specifically was about sansa and jon and that shit means something narratively] asserting that winterfell belongs to sansa despite everything and him not falling to the bait of stannis calling her a lannister, to just assume that according to grrm what robb did was OK. If people actually think grrm wants to show robb was right and girls truly are not important and thus his disinheritance of his sister's rights will be upheld, then they need their heads checked. Its not like he showed us that jaehaerys's sexism was what led to death of the dragons and downfall of targaryens even though grrm considers him a good ruler. Ultimately, catelyn will be validated when brienne saves either sansa or arya with oathkeeper and sansa will become lady of winterfell/qitn DESPITE robb's will. He [and arya fans] can suck it.

Hi soulmate anon,

Before we start, I have to let you know that one our previous posts was screenshotted and circulated in the arya stans circles because “we’re spreading our agenda on a neutral public platform” or something along those lines. Idk if you’ve seen that or not but I had to let you know before we go off kicking another hornet’s nest lol.

Anyway, that out of the way, to the Arya stans who are so hellbent upon removing Sansa from the Stark succession, Robb declared Jon as his heir, pushing Sansa further down the line (not disinheriting her jesus fuck) because through her Tyrion may lay claim to Winterfell, landing it in the hands of the Lannisters, exactly what Robb and Cat are trying to prevent. Robb didn’t “disinherit” Arya because he thought she was dead. Hope that helps.

WAIT!

the will being specifically about Jon and Sansa and that we need to start thinking about that narratively

SCREAM

Okay, I have now moved on (I have not). Though please feel free to talk about this more, I wanna know more. Guess I’ll now have to add jonsa tag to this answer hehe :P

I mean Robb did come from a place of “authority over the female members of his family” here with the will and that’s exactly the kind of thing we have to side eye. Taking it at face value and uncritically thinking about it is not a fair way to engage with the text I feel. You’re right when Jon himself reiterates Sansa’s claim over Winterfell, we are supposed to think twice whether Robb’s action was equitable or not. Stannis calls Sansa “Lady Lannister” to coax Jon into staking a claim over Winterfell so that Stannis gets a good reason to march to Winterfell and attack the Boltons (which he will anyway, but Jon’s, a member of the Stark family, support would mean political backing and reason). If we fall in the trap that Stannis thinks Sansa is now a Lannister, and therefore she is now a Lannister with no claim to Winterfell, then we’ve lost the plot and are coming from the same misogynistic hypocrisy (he wants Shireen on the throne if he dies but calls Sansa a Lannister, how does that work old man?) that destroys Westeros (your Jaehaerys example). And are no different from a crusty medieval era middle aged man btw.

It’s so fucking funny when the readers start emulating the same sexism that the author wants them to critique, and then start calling themselves feminists because they’re supporting a woman’s rights! Which woman’s rights besties? Because the one that clearly has them, you’re actively against her staking her claim. Wait till they read the books with their eyes open and realise that Arya comes at the end of the heirs to winterfell list, despite Sansa getting “disinherited” lmao. And I love Robb, he’s just a boy trying to do his best, but he truly made mistakes, especially with not listening to Catelyn. We also cannot deny the undercurrent of misogyny and chauvinism that Robb demonstrated with the will. Re Sansa’s rights and Jon’s decision to be with the Nights Watch. I will patiently wait for Catelyn to be validated and Sansa to be the Lady/QiTN not only because that subverts reader’s expectations and Westerosi patriarchal standards but because I want to see Sansa antis have a grand old meltdown.

[mattyalwayssmokesweed]

Late one night, Catelyn wakes up in a cold sweat, gasping for air as a terrifying thought dawns on her; Arya is not bad at needling, she’s just left-handed

[adoriadreams]

The difference between how Ned treats Arya and Sansa is really something.

I know he loves Sansa but it’s clear he favors Arya. It might not even be conscious decision, but still.

If Ned put the same effort into understanding and getting to know Sansa as he did Arya maybe the girls’ relationship wouldn’t be so bad. Not that he’s to be blamed for their relationship, because he’s not.

Anyways, I’m enjoying the book so far.

Tyrion and Jon relationship so far is nice. Him lifting and swinging Tyrion around was a nice little scene.