#asexual kaz

[witherydithery]

Conclusion

Part 1: Introduction & Background Part 2: "Kaz and Inej are Allowed to Heal" Part 3: Asexuality Headcanons I Part 4: Asexuality Headcanons II Part 5: Conclusion ★

    I do not pretend my experiences are universal among asexual people in the fandom. But at the same time, I do not imagine they are wholly unique. There is an issue, however small or imperceptible to most, around asexuality in this fandom. It is most prevalent in the asexual Kaz discussion, where negativity around the headcanon can make the asexual majority who headcanon it feel unwelcome. But it exists too in innocuous tags like "Kanej can heal" and its undercurrent of allonormativity.

    Both have made me feel alienated within the fandom at best and unwelcome at worst, even when they have the best intentions. Indeed, at the core of both issues are people trying to inform and speak up about problems they see in the fandom! But their methods and delivery are not perfect. And neither, I expect, have mine. But this is something that has so profoundly affected my experience in the Six of Crows, I wanted to talk about it, especially as I have recently seen an increase in similar discussions.

[sissytobitch10seconds]

I honestly think it's so interesting that people tend to pick Kaz when they're making a character aro/ace when in the books Tolya mentions having no interest in romance or finding a partner and Harshaw (who was sadly omitted from S2) is mentioned to only love fire.

[sapphic-cyrano-de-bergerac]

kaz brekker is ace and he and inej could never be together intimately, and that is painful but also like fucking awesome. like yes young adult fantasy but with realism in characters. not every problem is overcomable, not every pairing with chemistry ends up together.

[mysoftboybensolo]

Is there an Asexual Problem in the Shadow and Bone Fandom?

(trigger warning: mentions of sexual assault)

This is something I have been pondering for a long while now, and with the recent season really made me consider it more. I want to state before going into this that I am a demisexual, in case this changes anyone’s mind of what I am about to say. Before going into my spiel, here are some terms I feel need to be explained; Asexual, meaning a person who experiences no sexual feelings or desires, not feeling sexually attracted to another; Aromantic, meaning a person who experiences little to no romantic attraction or feelings towards another; Demisexual, meaning a person who develops sexual feelings or attraction to another only after developing a close relationship, not based on first impressions or physical attributes; Allosexual, meaning a person who experiences sexual attraction of a regular basis. Now that we have that out of the way, let’s begin.

I feel as if there is an Ace problem in the Shadow and Bone fandom because it feels like everyone has things mixed up and is unaware of what the definition of asexual is, but there are a few people on here that I have interacted with, who came across more acephobic when discussing these topics. It also doesn’t help that there was a major issue with one of the writers posting a picture of two of the actors with a caption that was very, whether she meant to or not, offensive and harmful. But let’s talk about why I think there may be an ace issue in the fandom.

My first problem is how people view mainly Kaz, but also Inej. It is really bothersome when people say that they are asexual due to trauma. You can headcanon them as asexual if you have something else to back it up other than relying on trauma. Why? Because it’s harmful. Coming out to my friends and family that I was demisexual wasn’t always easy, because some immediately thought that it meant something was wrong. I was asked straight out by one person if I had been sexually assaulted and if that is the reason why I claimed I was demisexual, with someone even suggesting I go to therapy for it. This happens to people on the ace spectrum more than people think, leading to the allo-sexual people believing in the myth that being asexual means “broken” or “damaged”. It has been known to happen that a character can be both asexual and traumatized, but their sexuality shouldn’t be based on what their trauma is. Imagine asking a lesbian if they prefer women because they had a bad experience with a man. Doesn’t that sound incredibly offensive? It’s the same thing with ace-spectrum people.

Kaz and Inej do want each other, there are more than three passages which talks about their desires for each other. I personally headcanon them as demisexual, mainly because in those times the narration talks of desire, it’s always to each other, but that is just me. There is no denying that they want each other, just held back by their own traumas, and how they both want to heal in order to achieve intimacy. Quite literally, at the end of Crooked Kingdom, they are holding hands without gloves, and it shows that they are healing and want to try to further their physical relationship, and it doesn’t take away the great emotional bond that they have together.

Trauma is something that should be healed, it should not be something a person carries throughout their life, preventing them from living a healthy and happy life. Hearing people say that there can’t be anything more between them even in the future because they are asexual due to trauma feels like you don’t want them to heal from their abusive past. The fact that Kaz can’t even hold hands with her is sad, the fact that people touch Inej and she’s back at the menagerie is tragic, they should be able to have the chance to have simple intimacies with people, regardless of whether or not you want them to have sex. If your only argument as to why a character is asexual is “trauma” then you are doing it wrong.

The other problem I have is Tolya. I love Tolya, he’s a great character, and I know that many people who watch the show may have not read the books, but he is aro-ace. In Rule of Wolves, Nikolai asks Tolya why he is single, the text says “Tolya shrugged his huge shoulders. ‘I have my faith, my books, I never wanted more.’”, which is as close to saying aro-ace without saying the words (x). People have taken the tiny moment between him and Inej as something possibly romantic, and I hope the show doesn’t go that route, not just because Kanej is endgame, but because it would be stripping away the proper ace-spectrum representation the fandom needs. But what bothers me more is how fans, who may not know this, are being told by others why they don’t like the relationship will react harshly, saying that it’s not set in stone, that Tolya is whatever they want him to be.

So, a character who isn’t ace in the source material is suddenly ace, but then a different character who is ace in the source material suddenly isn’t. This is a problem. I was talking about this with another blog and their response was to say that it isn’t set in stone, how dare I try to change his sexuality, and I just don’t want Inej to have nice things. I didn’t change anything about his sexuality, it’s that way in the books, and the show never said what his sexuality is or isn’t, and this idea that Inej deserves someone who can touch her is incredibly offensive. This is similar to the one writer who made an Instagram post with Amita and Lewis, with a comment that says “Sometimes you need some skin on skin” link right here (x). This is incredibly offensive, to suggest that the only way a fulfilling relationship is through physical means, erasing Inej’s trauma, making fun to the point of being ableist of Kaz, and ignoring that Tolya is canonically aro-ace.

Diversity is incredibly important, there is no denying that, and as someone on the ace-spectrum, I always look for it, but when there is an actual character who is shown to be on the spectrum, it is incredibly disrespectful to change that just because you want to ship them with someone else. Imagine if Tolya was gay and you changed him to being straight because you liked him with a female character, that would have been bad. It’s the same thing.

In short, being ace is not a result of trauma, people should be allowed to heal, and don’t change character’s sexual/romantic preferences just for your own shipping needs.

 Tagging: @foxhellvar @darklingswhore @manikas-whims @smolandweirdwriter @lixiesbabyhands @lyannarhaegars @quillsthrills @freddycartr @freddycarterus 

[neptune-scythe]

The reason I take issue with people sexualizing Kanej or portraying them in a way of being physically intimate is because doing so takes away valuable representation that they provide

Representation for asexuals, for people who have touch related trauma, and people who simply don't like or want touch

There is so little representation for us, as is, and people are (unintentionally or not) taking away this too

Especially for Kaz

Yes I want him to heal, but giving him the desire for or action of physical touch, especially within the canon timeline where he still is unable to have that, is erasing representation for haphephobia and touch aversion

And if we're being honest (because I know the haters are gonna come after me and say the only way for Kaz to heal is to be super touchy), if it's between Kaz healing and losing that representation, or remaining crippled by his trauma but keeping the representation, i would take the representation any day

Of course I want Kaz to heal, and unlike the acephobic haters that keep coming after me, I am aware that Kaz can heal and still not want touch

But Kaz is a fictional character, his healing, while important and something we all want, is not in the greater scheme of things more important than the representation his trauma provides in the real world

Especially for me, I had no idea haphephobia was a thing until I read six of crows. I thought I was just making up my dislike of skin to skin contact based off my parents focus on modesty growing up, and my not wanting to violate or intrude but touching People's skin ... not realizing it was my own dislike until I read six of crows.

That's why I fight so hard about this

Because it's not just about the character, it's about what they're providing in the real world. It's important, and needs to be talked about.

And I'm sure someone will come on here and say I'm making a huge deal out of nothing and that they're just fictional characters, but some things are a huge deal, and representation is.

And if you're having a hard time understanding, let me use this example

It would be as if Wylan suddenly could read, yes he is technically "healed" but the representation has been erased

Or if a healer fixed Kaz's limp, yes hes technically healed but the representation is gone

Those two examples would be weird right? You would have a problem with it, with erasing a big part of who these characters are and what they mean to people, even if it does give the characters an easier or better life

That's the same for Kaz and Inej's touch aversions. It is representation, it's part of why they mean so much to me ... and why this topic is bigger than just book characters

Touch aversion and haphephobia deserve to be acknowledged and treated as valuable representation that needs to be preserved and handled with care

It's not just a casual thing that is light and no biggie

It is a big deal to me and likely a lot of other people

And I will never stop talking about it and fighting for it

[cinno2]

an ace-spec take on kanej

long time no grishaverse post… allow me a moment to express my thoughts on kanej because they are so dear to me and i never had the right way to explain

as an ace-spec person i find kanej to be so nice and so moving especially given how popular they are among fans. i love how leigh gives them room to breathe and learn their boundaries and never has them magically become ‘fixed’.

personally i don’t feel like kanej ever needs to come to a point where they fit the standard of what relationships ‘should’ be. i love how their emotional reliance and understanding of each other pushes them to be better, and how they still see themselves of worthy of love despite it not being stereotypical.

all this to say i think it’s a fairly common ace experience to feel that there is something wrong with you. whether you feel romantic or sexual attraction or not does not equal your worthiness of love. there are many kinds of people on this earth and you are not alone in your experiences

i’ve never seen someone comment on the ace aspects of kanej (this could be because i have not been engaging with the fandom for a bit) so i figured i would throw my two cents out there and hope maybe this hits home for some or introduces others to a different way of looking at some beloved characters!

kanej is great because they are independent and beautiful characters with so much life to them. their relationship is a part of who they are and their arc towards true healing and i would love to see more ace-spec content about them :)

edit: just realized i never really posted any grishaverse content on my side blog! if you’re interested in an old timer haha you can find my work on @cinno

[small-spark-of-light]

toothache wb doodles and also a kaz :D

[thenetherlord]

All the Asexual and Aromantic characters I could find in books/media (so far!)

The Summer of Bitter and Sweet - Jen Ferguson

Demisexual representation by Lou, a half-Métis Indigenous Canadian teen.

Hazbin Hotel - Vivienne Medrano & Amazon Prime

AroAce representation by Alastor, a Louisiana Creole Overlord demon.

Heartstopper - Alice Oseman & Netflix

AroAce representation by Isaac Henderson, a British teen.

Percy Jackson and the Olympians (+ other PJO series) - Rick Riordan

Asexual representation by Thalia Grace, an American Hunter of Artemis Lieutenant.

The Heroes of Olympus (+ Trials of Apollo) - Rick Riordan

AroAce representation by Reyna Avila Ramírez-Arellano, a Puerto Rican Hunter of Artemis and past Praetor of the Twelfth Legion.

Shadow and Bone - Leigh Bardugo & Netflix

Asexual representation by Kaz Brekker, leader of The Crows.

Across a Field of Starlight - Blue Delliquanti

Asexual representation by Lu (right) and Fassen, (left) a pilot and ex-soldier, respectively.

Sherlock - Mark Gatiss, Steven Moffat (BBC)

Asexual representation by Sherlock Holmes, a British detective.

Heartbreak High - Hannah Carroll Chapman & Netflix

Asexual representation by Ca$h, an Australian teen who is gay.

That's all I have for now, let me know if there's more characters I should add!

[6point5crows]

Yes, Kanej can heal from their trauma. Yes, Kanej can desire for physical touch. Yes, Kanej can have all that.

Though Kanej can still have days where they don’t want any of that. Kanej can still have a desire to not have any physical touch. Kanej can have actual feelings that fluctuate and change and be more than all of that.

My personal headcanon?

Kanej is ace, absolutely. They can have days where they want to have physical affections and once healed, have those physical affections if so desired, but there’s also some days where they don’t want any of that at all. A lot of days where they’d rather be in the same room but not touching. Time periods where they’d rather show their love and affections via not having physical affections. I headcanon that they often do have many days where even after healed, they would rather just not hold hands, rather not kiss, rather not a lot of that. Like yes they can still have moments and days where they do want that, but that’s not all they are, either.

Normalize people and ships having boundaries and fluctuating comfort levels and desires.

Which, along with that, does fluctuate my headcanon of these two as well! Some days I have this opinion and other days I am fully “no physical intimacy” headcanon. And that is completely okay. I’m allowed to have my opinions and thoughts and headcanons for these characters. I’m allowed to have it change day by day and claim that their own comfort levels would too.

[witherydithery]

Asexuality Headcanons II

Part 1: Introduction & Background Part 2: "Kaz and Inej are Allowed to Heal" Part 3: Asexuality Headcanons I Part 4: Asexuality Headcanons II ★ Part 5: Conclusion

Misunderstanding the Headcanon

Just as these posts are often misinformed on asexuality, they also seem to be misinformed as to who is headcanoning Kaz as asexual. Which means they end up inadvertently harming the very community they seek to protect. Because, who could have guessed, the people who read Kaz as asexual are, in fact, asexual themselves.

Who Are They Fighting? 

At the core of such posts is, of course, the belief that people are headcanoning Kaz as asexual under the false assumption that his touch aversion is equivalent to asexuality. I do not doubt that some people have such reasons. But I can also say that I have never encountered anyone who has.

The only people I have ever encountered who headcanon Kaz as asexual are fellow asexual people who have seen something within his character that either they identify with or read as asexual. This should not be all that surprising, given that it’s how most headcanons of this ilk are formed. And out of these people who headcanon Kaz as asexual, I have never seen any of them who do so because of his touch aversion. After all, these are predominantly asexual people who are well aware of what constitutes their own sexuality.

All of the above can give the impression that those making these posts are fighting an imagined enemy. And indeed, this is a largely one-sided argument. The only posts I have ever seen that are in any way opposing these posts are those discussing asexual Kaz headcanons and the individual's reasoning for them. Reasons which are never his touch aversion nor his trauma, yet these people do feel the need to present their posts as counterarguments to the sorts of posts I have been discussing thus far.

Missing the Mark 

Now why would people who are headcanoning Kaz for completely different reasons feel the need to defend themselves against these posts? Well, these posts often do not stop at speaking against bad reasons for asexual headcanons. And even when they do, the constant association between asexual headcanons and negativity is enough to leave a sense of having your headcanon attacked.

This is especially the case when these posts tend to include more than just a warning about the repercussions of an asexual Kaz headcanon formed on misinformation. Oftentimes these posts will delve also into a refutation of asexual headcanons as a whole. They will claim that the text disproves such a headcanon or even that to think of Kaz this way is stupid. These kinds of claims counteract the credibility of such posts, going after people outside of their supposed targets and outright insulting some, and cause whole new issues to arise.

Right off the bat, I will establish that headcanons do not need textual evidence. They are incredibly dependent on the reader and the character and often depend on much more than the events in canon. But in any case, to say that there is a definitive lack of textual evidence or that the text outright refutes such a headcanon is a bold and terribly close-minded stance. I can and will go in-depth on how Kaz can easily be read as asexual one day, but suffice it to say: If someone identifies with a character, there is no saying they are wrong. If someone reads a character a certain way, there is evidently a reason for it. Either way, there is clearly something there that no list of supposed evidence will delegitimize.

Treatment of the Headcanon

Why make a list in the first place? Why do they feel so compelled to disprove a headcanon? Headcanons are a reflection of a reader: their experience reading and what they find compelling. You can't tell someone they definitely interpreted something wrong: it's art, and its meaning is in the mind of the beholder. And so the posts surrounding this headcanon fall into the all too uncommon misconception that headcanons are something that can be disproven or that they are an ignorant misinterpretation of the canon.

Ignorance is assumed of those headcanoning Kaz as asexual an awful lot. It is at the core of even the kindest of these posts, as all of them perceive those headcanoning Kaz as asexual as guilty until proven innocent. They address those they believe to be in the majority, those headcanoning Kaz as asexual due to his trauma, and add the validity of other asexual headcanons as an afterthought. Even without the refutation of all asexual Kaz headcanons that are equally as common, this in itself creates a sense of negativity around the idea of Kaz being asexual.

All of this hostility centred around a character being asexual has made me, an asexual person, feel unwelcome. Because although it is about a fictional character, the association between asexuality and hostility in the fandom leaves a disagreeable and unwelcoming impression.

Consequences

Many of my first encounters in the Six of Crows fandom on Tumblr were with posts against asexual Kaz headcanons. And as someone who read Kaz as ace and subsequently headcanoned him as such, these posts greatly affected my experiences and associations with fandom.

My Kaz headcanon is dear to me. Reading Kaz was the first time I saw my identity reflected in a character not expressly meant as representation, and I value having had that experience.  I like feeling connected to this character I love, and I like to think of the ways in which this headcanon could affect his character.

To see the negativity around the same headcanon made me feel very unwelcome. Especially in those early days when those posts were very common in the tag. I felt in some ways that since my experience reading the books was not welcome, maybe neither was I. I certainly didn't feel as though I could fully participate in the fandom. I am in fandom spaces to share my thoughts and love for the media with others who are also familiar with it, and I want to be able to share the full breadth of my thoughts! But the fandom taught me early on that this is not a headcanon that will be received well. And so I was afraid to share those thoughts. And in fearing sharing these thoughts I was afraid of expressing myself fully in the fandom. I still am!

[victor-v]

happy international asexuality day to neil josten and happy iad to katniss everdeen and happy iad to victor vale and happy iad to sherlock holmes and happy iad to felicity montague and happy iad to kaz brekker and happy iad to laurent of vere and happy iad to nancy whitman and happy iad to artemis and athena and hestia and happy iad to aziraphale

[deadaldipshit-jpg]

Characters i wholeheartedly believe are aspec of some sort

Madeline hatter

Reyna ramirez Arellano

Chiron

Tolya yul bataar

Clarisse la rue

Wednesday addams

Perry the platypus

Phineas and ferb

Feel free to add more to this list

[egret-orchids]

kaz brekker is aro-spec ace to me.

[mysoftboybensolo]

Caedsexual vs Asexual and why they aren’t interchangeable

@booksandteaonarainydayislife, you had asked “In real life, is it not possible for people to be ace due to trauma? Like, would someone who experienced a traumatic event that made it impossible for them to feel sexual attraction not be considered ace?”

This isn’t a clear yes and no answer, which is why I had to make a new post about it. Also, I would like to say that I had been recently education on this new term I am going to explain from the replies from this post (x), I am no way an expert on this, someone asked for my opinion, and here it is, so if anyone who is more experienced/has this sexuality wants to add on, please do so kindly.

I learned that there is a term called “Caedsexual”, which is described as “ is a micro label on the asexual spectrum which describes an individual who identified as allosexual—or not a part of the asexual spectrum—at one point in their lives, but are now on the asexual spectrum due to past trauma. This label should only be used by those who are survivors of these past experience.” I am not sure how recent this term is, but as there is a term for it, people should start using this if this is what they mean when they headcanon a character as “asexual”, when really they mean caedsexual.

Caedsexual is part of the ace spectrum, but it would still be considered incorrect to refer to someone who identifies as this as simply asexual, in my opinion, because not every asexual person is such because of trauma. For example, I am demisexual, I would say I am on the ace-spectrum, but I am not asexual. As I had talked in the post I linked above, the problem with identifying certain characters as asexual and say that it’s due to trauma is because so often, having experienced it myself, is that have a hard time believing those on the ace-spectrum that we are this way not because of trauma. Many people who are on the ace-spectrum suffer prejudice because people will assume that they are ace because of trauma and will try to convince the aces that they need therapy, that maybe they just need to find the right person and they’ll no longer be ace. Some allo-sexual people feel that somehow there ace-spectrum people are “broken” and need “fixing”, which is not true, but when you get people who misidentify certain characters or people as asexual because of trauma and it fuels the myth that we somehow need to be fixed in order to be “proper humans”, because the notion that sex/romance are not necessary for a happy life is crazy to them. Some people are ace the same way some people are gay, they just are, and people should respect that.

So, if you want to say that Kaz and/or Inej, or any other character in fact, identify as being caedsexual because of trauma, that would be correct, but saying that a character is asexual because of trauma is incorrect and helps to fuel the harmful notion that everyone who falls under the ace-spectrum is there because of trauma. They are not interchangeable and I don’t think people should say someone is asexual when they mean caedsexual. I hope that makes sense, and like I said, I am not a huge expert on caedseuxality, but this is from the observations and thoughts on this whole thing.

@foxhellvar @darklingswhore  @freddycarterus @arany-studio @ridleyytheriddler 

[neptune-scythe]

What if all the Crows were asexual 👀

Hear me out tho

Kaz and Inej: apothisexual, aka sex repulsed

Wylan: aceflux or graysexual meaning he fluctuates between what would be considered allosexual and asexual, or his attraction is somehow not what would typically be considered allosexual

Jesper: fraysexual meaning he's only attracted to people he doesn't know or have an emotional bond with (the opposite of demisexual)

Matthias: aegosexual, he likes the idea of it but doesn't actually feel the attraction or desires so likely won't do it

Nina: cupiosexual, similar to Matthias she likes the idea of it, but doesn't actually feel attracted to anyone in that way, tho she may still do it

Kuwei: lithosexual, he would only feel attracted to those who don't reciprocate those feelings

Thank you for coming to my TedTalk

[cosmxc-ars3hol3]

kaz brekker is ace to me.

and on a similar note, inej is grey asexual to me as well