#bg3 astarion discourse

[qwainte]

My absolute LEAST favorite trend among Astarion stans is that they'll bring up their own trauma/abuse in completely innocuous arguments with strangers online in an effort to guilt trip them. I'm truly sorry that you suffered such traumatic events in your life and I hope you're able to heal and live a healthy life, but that's really not going to stop me from finding Wyll and Minthara's hostile party banter towards Astarion funny.

[magical-girl-coral]

I do find it funny how much discourse there is around Astarion when Neil Newbon said he based him off a cat he tried to domesticate for three years.

"Why does Astarion keep making rash decisions?" Because he thinks he's going back to the streets any second now and refuses to leave survival mode.

"Why does he hate when we make good decisions?" Bitterness at being rescued "so "too late" plus the aforementioned survival mode that makes him want to leverage everything.

"Is he a good person or a bad person?" He has real safety and body autonomy for the first time in forever. Let him figure this out first by going on a Frieren style self discovery journey first and then discuss personality aspects.

"Is Astarion romantic or are his fans projecting other's aspects onto him?" See above. Also, the graveyard scene proved he can be romantic. He just figuring out beyond "laying dead animals on your doorstep" gothic part of romance.

"Why does Astarion try to go through the ritual even in playthroughs where he wants to stop it at any cause?" Imagine being a kicked street cat forced to his shit for all your life and finally getting the chance to not only eat the face of the person who forced you into this life, but steal all of his shit as well. It's a urge that's deeply hard to fight.

"Why is he an asshole?" He's a cat.

"What is the true face of Astarion?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. No one knows, least of all him.

He's just a cat, guys. Leave him be with his favorite person and he'll probably be fine.

[riza-hawks-eye]

I don't care about your immersion or how you find having too many romance options in your game annoying or whatever.

I love the way Larian's Faerun is Bisexual. I love how the majority of the characters are Bi or Pan and no one is fucking weird or prejudiced about it.

Lord knows I will never get a positive environment like that in real life with all you hating bitches.

[maroonmused]

“spider-man 2 was robbed” “the game awards are rigged” and only yuri lowenthal was brave enough to raise the discussion of would peter parker and astarion explore each other’s bodies in their respective action adventure/rpg narratives

[astarionancuntnin]

he's not only a clown, he's the entire circus

astarion + text posts (part 22)

[bananasfosterparent]

"Astarion can be a good person."

"Astarion can be vulnerable and tender, namely when he's exploring the concept of non-sexual intimacy."

and

"Astarion is a selfish and hedonistic vampire who has a penchant for evil."

are all statements that are true at the same time. Get you a man who can do it all.

I don't understand this black and white, flat way of interpreting Astarion's personality. He can be selfish and vulnerable. He can be hedonistic and do good deeds. He can be loving and cruel. All at once. All in different situations and in different ways. For different reasons and different people. Just like all the other characters in the game, Astarion isn't locked into one list of personality traits that follow strict rules based on which ending you choose. I'm so confused by players who praise the game for its depth in narrative and emotional response from characters YET also treat Astarion's endings as if they're just:

Hidden Heart of Gold trope guy VS a mustache twirling villain in an 80's cartoon. Or Zuko VS Christian Gray.

Viewing his endings that way just completely flattens out his entire canon personality in ALL routes.

Astarion isn't as different in his endings as some seem to think. It's just really baffling to me to ignore entire parts of his background and personality for more "favorable" ones. It's always fine for roleplay, but to say those things were never there canonly or can't be there for other players is the most bizarre behavior to me.

[kirain]

Why would you pick Gale over Astarion? Man's a walking 🚩

Okay. 😒

This is the third anonymous message I've received regarding my Gale romance, and I genuinely don't get it. This isn't even a Gale-oriented blog, plus I've already answered it. I like him better. That's all there is to it. I've seen other users get hit with this question, too; as if Astarion's the only "right" choice, and it's never even warranted. I haven't said a bad word about Astarion or anyone who romances him, but the irony of you calling Gale a red flag, then shaming me for not choosing Astarion is mind-blowing. If Gale's a red flag, Astarion's an entire bunting.

Since you've pushed me, I would rather romance any of these NPCs before canonically choosing the vampire:

Hope that answers your question, anon. 👌

I was trying not to let it happen, but this fandom has effectively ruined any appreciation I might've had for the character. At this point, I'm just sick of hearing about him, especially in comparison to Gale. Everything isn't about Astarion, anon. Believe it or not, there are other really great characters, but fans like you just can't get through the day without propping him up above all others.

A few hours ago, as I was considering how to respond to this message, I bumped into this drama on a post about Shadowheart. Long story short, the uploader made a positive video where their Tav hugs Shadowheart during her personal quest, then someone came in to talk about how Astarion is "so much better" and expressed their desire to hug him during his personal quest.

Enough is enough. Seriously. I could go on and on about why Gale is actually a green flag, but I feel like I've done that extensively on this blog. And people like you will probably just disregard it anyway, because you don't like him. At the end of that day, that's really your motivation behind this, isn't it? You don't like Gale and you feel invalidated by people who do. I'm sorry, but that's a you problem. Don't go after people just because they prefer a different character. It's ridiculous.

And you know what the saddest part of this is? Astarion was next on my list to be romanced. I made a cute half-elf Durge character just for him. I wanted to do a redeemed run, since I've heard it's really rewarding ... but now I kind of don't care. Thanks for that, anon.

[alwachart]

Some people seem to be confused about bg3 companions calling some "canon" and others "optional".

My dudes bg3 is a good crpg, all companions are optional. You can solo the game if you like, you can kill any of them, not recruit them or recruit them all.

I literally killed Shart at the beach once, took the artefact from her dead body and run the whole game without her existing at all. This was my durge having extra urges, it's called roleplay for a reason.

There is no such thing as optional and not optional companions

[monsters-and-macaws]

YOU KNOW WHAT? This post I’m manifesting only positive interactions.

Wyll will hold your hair back while you’re sick!!!

Karlach supports small businesses!!!

Gale helps fundraisers for libraries!!!

Shadowheart can do perfect winged eyeliner!!!!

Minthara can make the perfect workout schedule for anyone!!!

Astarion.

Lae’zel cuts perfect paper snowflakes!!!

Halsin knows how to properly recycle!!!

[brain-rot-central]

Idk why I bother going into the AA tag because it's just people trying to claim that because AA is like "I'm gonna spoil you rotten and you're GOING TO LIKE IT" he's abusive like girl

girl

no

like

That man. Will never settle with you being upset. EVER. If you want someone beheaded for wronging you, he'll do it. If you want caviar on toast every night for dinner, he'll make it happen. You wanna sleep in silk sheets, be adorned in gold and diamonds--he will do it.

That's what he's saying to you at the reunion party. He's not saying "I'm going to give you whatever of my choosing and you're going to like it!!" as if you have no choice in it. You need only say what you want and he'll do it.

The man is at your service. Not the opposite way around. He is obsessed with you. To the point where it should be considered a sickness lmao.

[absolutehomosexuals]

The Infamous "Durge Is a Man" Essay

I - INTRODUCTION

There's one simple question that led us to developing this theory: "would Bhaal want a female heir?"

Bhaal created Durge to be his ideal successor: the hand who would've reaped death in the world, conquering it in His name.

Every detail we get about Durge's lore is tied to this objective, the entire purpose of Bhaal's creation.

The cult is obviously shown to us as patriarchal, which is hinted at from the sole fact they worship a male deity: the argument may come off as silly at first, since one could argue Gods do not understand nor care for the concepts of gender.

It would be a valid counterpoint, if it wasn't for the fact Bhaal used to be a human, having navigated the world as a fully grown man before he eventually became a God.

If we believe he created Durge in his ideal image, it seems much more intuitive for his offspring to be male.

II - THE MATTER OF SUCCESSION

We must note that Bhaal's plans heavily rely (as we can read in Durge's "diary" tab) on reproduction ; e.g "siring lots of Bhaalspawn".

This alone isn't coded as one sex or the other but, if we think of it in terms of convenience, a female heir wouldn't be your first choice for the task: women can only gestate one child per year and conceive in very specific windows of time within their cycle, while men can potentially impregnate countless women in the same time span and not suffer any physical disadvantages during gestation.

We should also consider women tend to develop a bond with their newborn and the latter needs to rely on them for survival during the first few months of their life, while a man:

1. has no such obligations from a social point view (especially in a medieval context, where bastard children were the norm)

2. isn't strictly needed by the child for survival, biologically speaking.

I doubt Bhaal was expecting his heir to keep track of her cycle, gestate for nine months with all the drawbacks that come with it, give birth risking death and spend the following months caring for a newborn – all of this, on repeat for years if not centuries.

"But he's a God, he could potentially speed up the process!"

Technically true, but why would he go through such trouble, if he could craft his ideal child as a male and avoid complications?

The game itself seems to agree with this theory, since you get the "Bhaal's stallion" line regardless of your Durge's gender, in one of the bad endings.

We could also consider the idea that reproduction = power, "spreeding the seed", to be a typically patriarchal concept.

Bhaal himself isn't fond of the idea of raising children, as he let Durge be raised by an adoptive family – a "regular" one no less, meaning he didn't even concern himself with choosing one.

III - IN-UNIVERSE MYSOGINY

There are many aspects of the religion that seem to glorify manhood, and for its leader to be a woman (by Bhaal's choice, no less) seems inconsistent.

Let's think of the infamous blessing granted to Bhaal's favourites, the Ecstasy of Murder, which basically consists in a pseudo prostatic orgasm.

Then we consider the presence of predominantly-male sexual crimes, both coming from Durge and other important figures within the cult.

We cannot deny necrophilia, for functional reasons, is extremely uncommon amongst women: necrophilic acts are typically carried out by penetrating a dead body, as it's almost the only pleasurable act you can perform on a corpse ; Durge being a known necrophiliac pre-lobotomy could be one of the many hints the character is meant to be read as male.

Not to mention the horrendous way in which Bhaalist female characters are treated in-universe, between Sarevok sexually abusing his daughter (and this concept being treated as completely normal by the narrative, as far as we know of) and Orin being constantly belittled.

We never hear of any male cultists undergoing the same treatment, meaning abusing women is the norm amongst Bhaal's faithful – yet again, a telltale sign of a patriarchal religion.

"But Orin isn't mistreated because of her sex, she's mistreated because she's not the true heir!"

Orin is, indeed, not Bhaal's biological daughter: she's related to Him by blood, but as Durge himself says, her blood is "diluted".

However, while he acknowledges she's not his biological sister, he still addresses her as such in multiple sources, meaning the cult leader himself doesn't care about her actual origins.

She's constantly portrayed as someone who gets talked down to, cast aside and her beliefs are harshly criticized both by Durge and others influential members such as Sarevok.

For Larian to choose a woman to fill this role could have been accidental, but we must admit the symbolism is quite clear.

Orin interprets murder as a form of art, while her Bhaalist peers frequently accuse of her misunderstanding her own faith, considering her too immature to lead the flock.

She's the only Bhaalist female character we're shown as remarkable, and she's coincidentally used as an example of someone the cult does not respect ; she's even biologically related to Bhaal and yet, she had to seize power by force.

IV - ROMANTIC SUBTEXTS

Another interesting matter are the characters commonly paired with Durge in fanworks: Durgetash and Durgestarion are the most popular romantic pairings according to ao3, and we cannot blame the fandom for catching up on the subtext.

Durge's "admiration" (as he calls it himself) towards Gortash is viewed as controversial and arises suspicion in-universe, to the point he feels the need to apologize to his Father and repent for an implicit sin.

While it would be scandalous to fraternize with Gortash even in a platonic matter – he's practically the leader of the rival cult –, the emphasis put on justifying their interactions has been interpreted by fans as romantic subtext.

The letter in which Durge addresses the issue is titled "Letter for Forgiveness", despite Gortash only being mentioned at the beginning, while the rest of the letter focuses on different topics entirely.

Right after expressing guilt for the way he views Gortash, Durge proceeds to repeat Bhaal's plan and promises to follow it, stressing that he would have made his Father proud regardless.

The letter overall comes off as an attempt to justify being attracted to Gortash and reassuring Bhaal that it wouldn't come in the way of their plans, as it would pose an enormous threat otherwise.

Durge being attracted to Gortash – if we choose to interpret him as a man – would come with a handful of important challenges: first of all, sympathizing with the 'enemy', implying Durge could abandon the idea of betraying him or even allow Gortash to do the same to him.

Second of all, being capable of such vulnerability that would come in the way of being a sentient weapon: a killing machine isn't supposed to feel pity, let alone experience something as foolish as forbidden love.

And thirdly, for Bhaal's heir to prefer the company of men is simply a disgrace, as it would come in the way of reproduction and possibly undermine his public image.

While all of this may have not been meant as a homosexual allegory, the fact you can find the Letter for Forgiveness on Durge's corpse if you play as Tav, still comes off as "bringing a secret to the grave".

Not to mention the note at the end of the letter, written by another cultist, reading: "Ha! Orin was right about her sibling." which is clearly a jab at what we mentioned above.

When you go to confront Orin in Act III (as Durge) about the fact she has been following you around town, she replies: "The little lordling has been whispering in your ears? He always knew how to tumble and twist your mind matter, leaving you knotted in his chords."

The matter of Durge's attraction to Gortash is seen as something silly and shameful at the same time: it's an open secret cult members dare to joke about, because they find it ridiculous.

If a hypothetical female heir of Bhaal had the slightest possibility of reproducing with the Chosen of Bane, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't find it as humorous – they find it hilarious because it's taboo, a powerful demigod developing a "school crush" on a male ally.

We should also talk about some of the in-game implications about Gortash, such as being someone who possibly "slept his way to the top": managing to charm and daze a much more powerful man on purpose sounds surprisingly in-character.

What we find even more interesting are the implications that come with Durgestarion, a pairing the writers are openly fond of.

We know both characters were characterized by the same writer, the latter going out of his way to include personalized romance interactions between the two: unlike other characters, romancing Astarion as Durge gives the player access to tons of new dialogue lines and greetings, sometimes making for a completely new experience compared to romancing him with a regular Tav.

Some hints may point to Durge being the "canonical" romance for Astarion, as many fans have speculated ; while one may disagree with that sentiment, we must admit it's not far fetched.

If we consider all of Astarion's canonical past relationships (meaning, the few ones he actually deems important and genuine) were with men, and the emphasis put on Durge's "admiration" towards Gortash + the incessant pressure Bhaal puts on him to reproduce, the thought of these characters romancing each other in an alternative timeline actually sounds liberating.

Some Durge-specific lines Astarion says during his romance arc seem to be aimed at a male character, rather than sounding gender neutral: the first example that comes to mind is "Are you alright now, or is today a 'I will wed you with a delicate veil of blood blooming over your white curls' kind of day?"

Astarion sarcastically references Durge "wedding him", thus putting the player in a stereotipical "groom" role from the start, with the veil resembling the one brides typically wear during the cerimony.

If we consider all other aspects mentioned in this theory, the line reads as somewhat... male-coded.

If we want to be truly insane about this theory – and of course, we do – , we could even add a "gay allegory" element to the equation.

A vampire and the spawn of an evil deity, excluded members of society who'd usually feel a compulsion to hide, are implied to fall in love by the narrative.

V - ACTING CHOICES

Finally, we come to the voice actor: while a specific actor was chosen to play the character and is regarded as the iconic Durge VA, Larian didn't concern themselves with choosing a female voice actor to include the possibility of a female Durge, which is why we can only hear his intro in Neil Roberts' voice.

VI - CONCLUSION

With all of this taken into account, a female Durge seems to be an after-thought, if not directly a fantasy or a headcanon that the game gives you the possibility to play out.

The original narrative, as we can see, best accomodates a male character.

[blacklodge13]

thinking about astarion and how like, this may sound crazy, but i like seriously miss the baby early days of the fandom and the true sense of WONDER that was like everywhere with it??

like i'm being sappy for a second shouting outloud on my little blog here but like, i desperately miss the fics that weren't thinly-veiled quips at spawn or aa or fuck even the fact that astarion at his core in the fandom is split into two: spawn and aa

like, how if you're into any version of astarion you gotta slap an asterisk on it to alert people since there are mfs out there that this really really matters to

i guess tl;dr any astarion is good astarion and the best astarion is one that overcomes his trauma and takes his story into his own hands, and flourishes in whatever outcome that comes from it

he is strong, he is capable, and he is free

[bloodandtheweave]

The Fandom: Writes essays about why they like Astarion & Gale together. Including the parallels between them, the banter, and screenshots to back it up.

The Fandom: pEoPlE oNlY ShIp BlOoDwEaVe beCausE tHeY are TwO wHiTe mEn

No one is being forced to like Bloodweave, yet it’s exhausting to see the worst continually assumed about those who do. There’s a big difference between thoughtful critique and declaring that people must have bad motives for enjoying a particular pairing. Too often the line “Everyone can ship what they want” is immediately followed by “Well, not that one.”

What really rankles is the double standard. Astarion isn’t a perfect fit for Wyll, Halsin, or Karlach either—his arc is a rocky journey of redemption that naturally clashes with other personalities. He has minimal chemistry with Halsin (who is also white), and many of his exchanges with Wyll are quoted out of context, and these two ships are also pairing both characters with men while ignoring their relationships with the female characters. Yet these “problems” only seem to matter to people when he’s paired with Gale.

Critics rarely offer an alternative for Gale, either. The fandom is obsessed with sorting M/M ships into a hierarchy—especially those involving Astarion—without applying the same scrutiny across the board. You could just as easily claim that Wyllstarion fans are misogynistic fetishists for sidelining Karlach, or ignoring his clear parallels (and flirtation) with Shadowheart, simply because pairing two men feels more “progressive.” But that wouldn’t be fair, and neither is presuming ill intent from Bloodweave fans.

Constantly belittling Bloodweave and making sweeping generalisations about its shippers creates a hostile environment. Saying “it is boring” or “it is racist” as though those are objective truths—and not personal opinions—shuts down genuine discussion. Worse, it discourages people from sharing art and fiction, which ironically makes the fandom feel smaller and more monotonous.

That hostility also skews the tag landscape. Astarion is extremely popular, so naturally anything he’s in will dominate searches. If fans produced as much content for Wyll/Karlach, Gale/Halsin, Bladeweave, or other combinations, Bloodweave wouldn’t appear to be “clogging” the tags. Gale fans, for instance, enjoy Bloodweave as their enemies‑to‑lovers fix; not everyone wants the even harsher dynamic of Gale/Minthara. Everyone has their own reasons for favouring certain tropes, and they’re not automatically negative.

Instead of policing tastes, why not channel that energy into creating or boosting content for the pairings you love? Celebrate Wyllach, Bladeweave, Wyll/Shadowheart—anything you feel deserves more attention—rather than endlessly moaning about Bloodweave. We’re all here because we care about these characters; letting others enjoy their favourites without judgement can only make the fandom richer and more welcoming for everyone.

[normal-posts-4-normal-people]

"Straight women who like Astarion are so cringy and annoying"

Bro who cares, like genuinely why does it matter. Newsflash guys, we are all ""cringe"" Your 45k word gay fanfiction is just as self-indulgent and lame as that Astarion fan's Vampire lord self insert fantasy. I am sorry they aren't writing vampire smut in a god-honoring way but if it bothers you so much you can just block it and move on.

[lyonface]

Genuinely convinced that the people who love Ascended!Astarion and argue with people about him genuinely loving Tav the same way he did before, or it being his best ending over Spawn (in terms of character arc, not taste) legit only picked the enthusiastic options for Tav when dealing with him, and most certainly didn't break up with him and talk to him afterward. He says some downright chilling shit to a Tav who refused to become a spawn.

And like, sure, it's because he's hurt and he's coping to some degree. Astarion can be vicious even in a good mode, and Tav agreeing to help him ascend only to essentially abandon him is painful to deal with, but of all the shit for him to say??

Tav can argue that he's becoming like Cazador the night before, and he gets so hurt and angry if Tav says that, and it makes sense! It's a harsh thing to say, and even after that argument, no matter what, Astarion will be willing to let it go if Tav wants to stay together and agrees to become his Spawn. You can run through the entire dialogue tree again before it forces you to pick an out option, that's how desperate he is to keep them. But like goddamn how can you beat the accusations if you're willing to say shit like this?? A thing that could have easily come straight from Cazador!

Regardless, however, of his desperation, his real feelings, Ascended!Astarion is fundamentally different, in his mind, than how he used to be. Magic has literally corrupted him, changed what his body is capable of, the curse that he was given as a spawn is different now. Sure, Astarion didn't stop loving Tav the second the ritual was over, or the day after or the day after that, but even he knows he's changing, and rapidly, but he can only recognize so much of what's different, and everyone else can see what he can't. By his epilogue at the end of the game, he might as well be another vampire lord, just far, far more dangerous.

[wiltedreamofbaldursgate]

Girl dad Astarion would be like “ugh, look at that little menace of a child keeping me away from my darling Tav. Children are The Worst. What a hassle. ugh.” while lovingly combing his daughter’s hair. Braiding it in the most beautiful, intricate fashion even though he’s just getting her ready for bed. Feeding her secret sweet treats for no other reason than her being daddy’s little delight.

And when he’s done, asking how the little one likes her hair, she would just demand more ribbons and bows because she’s like 5, getting the princess treatment ever since birth (by Astarion. Tav not so much. Obviously.)

Astarion would scoff inwardly, because ugh, it’s been an hour already? The kid’s taking up my entire damn time, but ultimately go with “Why, what a splendid idea, my precious, finally someone to share The Vision with. Red or blue? ...Red? That's what I thought, too, love.”