#bran stark girlies

[theredquill]

fic: i will never die — bloodraven has his ghosts and now bran has his. Heistia Umber, no trace of blood but her hair, like she was trying to dye it red, her white shift, like losing the sight of her in the snow . Jojen Reed, with his terrifying green eyes and haunting dreams. They would haunt him now, all he had to do was wait.

[leulah]

if i see one more tiktok slandering bran chapters calling him boring and annoying i’m going to reach through their screen with a gun

[adoriadreams]

Characters Rankings | Out of five stars

Cersei Lannister : ⭐️

I can’t stand this crazy bitch. I hate her. I want to reach in the book and just choke her. Please let her be killed. I’m still in disgust and shock that she killed Robert’s bastards. She vile and disgusting. I'm not even going to get in to the twincest( GRRM needs to be arrested for that)

Jaime Lannister : ⭐️

He’s a weirdo, not the good kinds. I hope he suffers the same fate Bran did but don’t wake up.

Tyrion Lannister : ⭐️⭐️

I just don’t have any real feelings towards him. I don’t hate him, but I don’t like him. I did find somethings he said entertaining so. I like his interaction with Jon too.

Joffrey Baratheon : -⭐️

Inbred bitch.

Eddard Stark : ⭐️⭐️⭐️

He was an okay character. I don’t love him but I like him enough. He did annoy me for most of the book. His honor is just stupidity at this point.

Catelyn Stark : ⭐️⭐️⭐️

I thought Catelyn would be so horrible because of all the things that I heard but she’s just a flawed character. I like her enough. So a three star. That line that she send to Jon that it should have been him was so out of pocket.

Varys : ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

He was entertaining and he kept making jabs at Ned that I found funny. Also him being described as an egg was funny to me. Who doesn’t live a good dramatic and messy queen.

Petyr Baelish : ⭐️⭐️ | 2.5

He’s so creepy and I really want him to die. He only got the 2.5 star cause he was funny and he’s actually an intriguing character. He’s needs to back tf off Sansa. He physically makes me sick and I don’t want him on my page but I want to see what he scheming.

Samwell Tarly : ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

My sweet baby. In my mind he’s chunky and sad, I love it.

Jon Snow : ⭐️⭐️⭐️ | 3.5

I actually like him better than the show. He atleast have more personality in this. His inner thoughts are funny too(Calling Tyrion a gargoyle, Myrcella insipid and even how he’s better than the other Black Brothers.)

Bran Stark : ⭐️⭐️

His chapters are the reason I didn’t finish the book faster. It gets more interesting in the next book I heard, so.

Sansa Stark : ⭐️⭐️⭐️

She over-hated. I liked her. She can be naive but she only eleven so it can be excused. People seem to hate her because she fits into the society that she was born into and thinks she some bully but who did she really bully. She was mean to Arya and Arya was mean to her, so. I love the vibes she gave off, I love girly girls in fantasy. They're usually treated horrible by the authors and hated by fans but I always eat them up. Anyways, I didn’t get to spend too much time with her to give her any higher ranking.

Arya Stark : ⭐️⭐️⭐️

She’s a rebellious nine-year old and I support it. I don’t normally like the tomboy characters and that’s because I always read it in YA and it’s always so sloppy, but I liked Arya. I think I need to spend more time with her though for any higher ranking. Loved her relationship with Jon. I wanted more of than. It was just an wholesome brother-sister dynamic. Jon feels outcasted cause he’s a bastard and Arya because she can’t fit into the societal norm. I really like their interactions. Arya is a character that has the potential to become a character I can like.

Daenerys Targaryen : ⭐️⭐️ | 2.5

It could been higher but I just didn’t vibe with the slavery aspect of her chapters. I just don’t like it. And like Arya and Sansa, I didn’t spend enough time with her.

I’m happy she freed from Viserys and Khal Drogo. Apparently she gets better and so does the whole slavery aspect, but I hope she doesn’t become a white savior. I really hope not, I really want to like her.

Another reason she not higher is because of Mirri maz duur.

Her killing Mirri maz duur will never sit right with me. It felt like she killed Mirri( who was a slave) for harming Khal (who was her master) and I didn't like it. Also the whole idea that Mirri did it to teach Dany a lesson is ridiculous. What would she have to gain by teaching Dany this lesson. Also we have no prove she went out of her way to harm Dany.

Khal Drogo killed himself. She told him what not to do while the herb is on him and he went against. She told them no one is to enter the tent while she was performing the rituals and Jorah brought Dany in still. That's not her fault. There’s no actual proof but just Dany bias and warp idea of things ( Just because it’s from Dany’s point of view doesn’t meant it’s factual. She’s grieving and her mind if looking for someone to place blame on) I just don’t like how she died and it’s really making it difficult to enjoy Daenerys.

Jorah Mormont : ⭐️

I don’t like him at all. He was selling slaves and he’s not even trust worthy. Am I hoping some misfortune fall on him? Yes, very much so.

Lysa Tully : ⭐️

She’s mental. I wanna see her ‘fly’. Her attachment to her son is weird. It’s very weird. Why is she still breastfeeding him. She weird.

Robert Baratheon : ⭐️

He’s a rapist, let’s be real. He’s an abuser and a neglectful father( I know it’s not his kids, but he didn’t know that) He’s an horrible king and he just shut his eyes to everything going on around him. Not to mention he’s obsessive. How are you obsessing over someone you didnt know. Also the 15 year old he got pregnant and then told Ned he doesn’t care about. Disgusting. The way he just fathers bastards and leave them to suffer. He probably knew Cersei killed his bastards and didn’t care. Yuck!

Sandor Clegane : ⭐️

I don’t care how traumatized he is, trauma is not an excuse to be an abuser or harm others. He needs to stay away from Sansa ( all these creepy and nasty men need to leave her alone) and I don’t want him near Arya either( In the show she was depicted has having a mentorship with him and I don’t want it). There’s nothing he can teach her, nothing I want him to teach her. He needs to go and find help and stay away from them. He’s a grown man that takes out his trauma on little girls and that’s disgusting. He’s disgusting.

[cjbolan]

Which Game of Thrones/House of the Dragon characters would all the Emily Windsnap characters be?

Ooooh glad you asked!! Lemme see...

Emily = Arya Stark/Jon Snow/Daenerys. Arya because she's this preteen tomboy who runs away from her family on all sorts of adventures. Jon Snow because she's the product of forbidden love and later the hero or "Chosen One" of some cryptic prophecy. Daenerys because she can magically communicate with animals (Emily with the Kraken and narwhal, Daenerys with her dragons).

Shona = Sansa Stark, for her love of all things girly like pretty dresses and singing, and especially love stories.

Mary P. = Lyanna Stark or Yara Greyjoy. They're all tomboyish women who loves "masculine" pastimes (sailing for Mary and Yara, horseback riding&fighting for Lyanna). And just like Lyanna, Mary P. fell in forbidden love with a man and secretly bore his child, and was tragically separated from her man. Also Mary P. and Yara both fiercely care for their loved ones. Mary P. would absolutely sail to the ends of the earth to rescue Jake and fight his captors, just like Yara did for Theon!

Jake = Rhaegar Targaryen. They're both men who love poetry and defy gender roles with their more stereotypically feminine pastimes (jewelry-making for Jake, singing for Rhaegar). And they both fell in forbidden love with a woman who secretly bore their love child who later becomes the hero.

Aaron = Bran Stark. Both brooding dark-haired emo boys with magical powers, and again somehow involved in some prophecies.

Mr. Beeston = Tywin/Jaime Lannister. Like Tywin he's the old scheming royal advisor to a corrupt king. Even doing some pretty nasty things for his king in the process. Like Jaime he's an antihero who's not nice to kids, but after a series of trials turn around and help said kids (and everyone else) by the end.

Mystic Millie = Helaena Targaryen. Both women who believe in their cryptic visions and dreams, and who seem completely weird to everyone else.

Neptune = Robert Baratheon. Both corrupt kings with short tempers who sleep around with lots of women (Neptune has his wives, Robert has his whores) and who have hundreds of children, yet still pine for the one dark-haired woman they loved but sadly died (Aurora/Lyanna).

Now I'm imagining if Emily Windsnap was rewritten for the Game of Thrones target demographic XD.

That's all I got for now. Feel free to add anymore examples if you can =) !

[ladystoneboobs]

ok, my other stark family hot take is that i don’t think sansa was really much closer to robb than jon. we know robb/sansa also had a goodbye hug with the snowflakes in his hair, and that he led her, arya, and bran, into the crypts for his and jon’s cute ghost prank. but literally anything else between them is fanon, not canon. 

yeah, we know sansa thought of her big brothers very differently and would’ve wanted more interactions with robb and valued them more, but the question is what did he think/feel about her? without a pov, the best clue that we have (besides his refusal to trade jaime, which i do think he felt little choice about) is his reaction to sansa’s last letter to wf. where he blames her for the whole thing, not just arya’s exclusion, and needs luwin to point out these must have been cersei’s words that sansa was made to write. which is, um, a not great sign about the state of their relationship imho. my impression is more that sansa admired and idolized him from afar even when they still lived in the same castle. with the 4ishyr age difference and the highly gendered activity structures of their days i just don’t see much time for individual bonding. jon/arya’s first scene happens when arya runs away from her oh-so-important femimine lessons and jon is being excluded from male bonding, neither of which would apply to sansa or robb. sansa wasn’t interested in any “boyish” activities like arya was with all her brothers, and i see no evidence that robb would have interest in whatever more feminine playtimes sansa and her girly-girl cohort would get up to. 

lest anyone misunderstand and think I am perpetuating the myth of sansa an outsider within the stark household, never really one of them, i’ll just add that there is one starkling who appeared to have an equally warm relationship with both sisters and that’s bran. which makes sense since he was the one closest in age to the girls and is known for being a sweet kid who gets along well with most people, as evident from his first chapter. then there’s rickon too, who i’m sure sansa also had a good enough relationship with, but there’s really only so much closeness to be had between a tween and a toddler. (and lbr, rickon/any other starkling is mostly fanon too. all we know of him pre-abandonment is that he liked sweets, which is true of almost every little kid who can eat sweets. the “wildness” he’s primarily defined by was not an intrinsic distinguishing characteristic when the family still lived together, but a new trait developed only after they split as a response to the situation he was far too young to understand.) 

though as much as i’d like more bran and sansa fandom solidarity, it’s not like i’m saying everyone should focus on their relationship either, regardless of personal preference for other characters or fanon, bc that would be obnoxious. 

[a-song-for-ages]

So we have Daenys and Rhaenys Targaryen (both second of their names yeehaw), daughters of Rhaella and Aerys and born very weak - so like the Maesters were like ya no they won't produce healthy heirs (bitches even point to rhaella and are like women fall on their mothers)

And so after the Rebellion these two are alive (bec Ser Jaime? maybe some other knight??? Bec I remember rn Jaime was too busy killing Aerys to save Elia and the kids...)

And Rhaenys is forced to marry Robert (to keep the stability of the Realm blah blah) and Daenys is made to marry Ned Stark (Brandon was married to Cat and she had a baby boy who is named Brandon after his dad or maybe even Brynden or Bran)

Anyways the girlies are sad and depressed and Rhaenys considers yeeting herself from the highest tower of the Red Keep (if only so she can go fuck Rhaegar over with the Conqueror's steel in the afterlife) but Daenys' state of mind is especially fragile after the war And her sister pleads for her to try - to stay alive, please

So Rhaenys tries

It doesn't go well what with the assassination attempts on her life and Robert's lack of doing anything (in truth it's the Council who is like okay come on guys)

Somehow she lives long enough to give birth to a baby boy - he's named Orys, after which she commits suicide.

Orys is sent to live with Stannis Baratheon on Dragonstone (which is funny because it's Dragonstone and this kid is half Targaryen but also Renly is a child and can't raise a newborn and Robert does NOT want this boy sent North to his Targaryen aunt but also he's like ah Ned would raise him good but also to send the child so far, so young - well, the Maesters advise against it and also Stannis is right there so.)

Wow this is drama. Like a lot of drama.

Maybe Rhaenys could try to stay alive for three years - because 3 is their special number you know?

[mummer]

ppl who unconditionally think tyrion and dany and even jon are gonna have unexamined pure heroic arcs ending in happiness family and self love, and that for them NOT to have this would be some sort of unexpected insult to the characters...... guys..... like......... im so sorry...........

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

The theory that "Arya will kill Dany" offends me as a fan of both and as a woman as well.

As a fan of Dany, after all she has been through and all the sacrifices she has made in order to become a capable and caring ruler to die by another girl who also had to survive the worst and shares so many characteristics with her ( caring for the common folk, being kind, a life warrior etc) it's insulting. It's like we can't have two powerful and good women who go through a leadership arc without being framed as enemies which is bs.

As Arya's fan, I find it insulting that the fandom neglects all the important aspects of her story; Her being protective of the powerless and being a strong warg and thus will probably fight against the Others (same as Dany) instead of go killing random people who weren't even in her list or enemies to her. Some "starks stans" only remember my girl Arya when they want her to eleminate powerful women so their favourites will end up in a higher position of power. Joke on you, though. Because Arya like it or not will always be more relevant from your faves and more likely to also end in a higher position of power .

Lastly, as a woman I don't want to see the only female protagonists of the story being antagonistic towards each other and the one actually  to kill the other. What kind of message would it send? That the male protagonists ( Jon, Tyrion and Bran) can get along really well and co operate for the common good but the main girls need to have catfights because it's #just girly things?

Also what happened to those who preach that we shouldn't ~pit women against each other~? Does that only apply to the girls who share the same surname? And it's okay to pit the main heroines against each other?? I smell bullshit.

[shieldofrohan]

I don't think GRRM explores the flaws in Arya's characterisation rather he explores how the world is unfair to her. Whenever I read Jon, Sansa, Dany , Robb and Bran, I feel they behave as their age requires them to be. They show capabilities yet are not exempted from bad choices which a character at their age can easily commit. With Arya, sometimes it feels like I am not reading a 11 year old kid but a grown up 25 year old woman who never messes up things or has any characterisation flaws which are not inherent within like the other child characters but those failings are primarily influenced by the society.

Hello Anon,

I have to agree and disagree with you.

I agree with that Martin writes Jon, Sansa and Dany better- MUCH BETTER.

I am obviously not a Daenerys fan but I enjoyed her character more than I did with Arya. I said it many times but I am going to say it again: Daenerys is the best written character in the series. She is much more interesting villain than man-pain Tyrion [looking at you Martin.. really, Tyrion?].

Objectively I find her character well written and interesting. But my problem with her is that her cult like fans who completely ignore her true position and characterization in the books. Hopefully in the future people will enjoy Dany character for the right reasons.

I felt like I need to explain my thoughts about Dany first to show my problems with the way of Arya was written by the author.

Arya is the WORST written main character. TRULY. Everything about her is so FAKE/FORCED/CLICHE/UNREALISTIC…

Author says that Arya is the underdog/outcast of the family. Does the writing show this?

NO!

She is literally her father's favorite child. We see Ned constantly favoring her, letting her do what she likes, he never scolds her, he makes time to talk with her about her traumas like losing a friend, he fcking finds a Water Dancer for her [but not a harp teacher for Sansa]. I have a great dad but jeez, even he never showed me this kind of devotion.

Catelyn seems like she knows her daughter well… we don’t see her abusing or ignoring her. She even acknowledges her struggles.

Her siblings love her. Even Sansa tries to keep include her into her own circle to enjoy things together, she covers for her against Septa Mordane.

As we can see, she seems doing fine as a tomboy girl in the family of 5 men/boys and 2 women/girls.

BUT SHE COULDN’T SEW SO SHE WAS BEING ABUSED.

Really? Wow she must be the only special snowflake who wasn’t good at sewing. I am sure rest of the girls in North were all experts. Arya is the only one who lacks some skill people and it made her super sad.

Fans tried to paint this as some "omg anti-feminism/sexism in society" thing and it feels absurd because Arya was bad at history and heraldy too..

A tomboy is not good at some female-coded skill is so fcking cliche for character building and I am not buying it. And this is BAD/LAZY WRITING.

Did Martin try to make her look like an underdog with this??

Well Sansa is not good at math? I am sure she had bad days because of this too but we didn’t read it. If you ask me Sansa (girly girl) being bad at math (male-coded subject) was more sexist than sewing and Arya thing [considering Sansa was good at music and playing instruments which require math but whatever.]

Arya is an outcast because she is not like other girls… WOW, it has never been written before, how did George come up with this idea? Meanwhile we have girls like Mormont girls so obviously she is not the only "NOT LIKE OTHER GIRLS MARY SUE".

Evil Mordane bullied poor Arya. Mordane is totally not good for her BUT Arya literally never listens HER TEACHER. I am not talking about her lack of skill in sewing. Arya simply NEVER listens anyone. She disobeys her septa, she declines QUEEN’s invitations rudely, she talks sh*t about CROWN PRINCE while princess is next to them.

Girly lessons like sewing weren’t the only lessons she was not into it…

Sansa would have known who he was, and the fat one too, but Arya had never taken much interest in titles and sigils. Whenever Septa Mordane had gone on about the history of this house and that house, she was inclined to drift and dream and wonder when the lesson would be done.

[ACOK; Arya VII]

She simply never cares about any lessons and she simply refuses to learn basic DECORUM. Yeah I am sorry that she had to learn things she didn’t want to but welcome to real world.

MY POINT IS: all these are so weak points to make her look like an outcast/underdog.

Don’t even let me start with Jeyne Poole calling her HORSERACE nonsense. I said it before so I repeat it: This feels so forced in the story considering Arya is the daughter of Warden of the North and Jeyne is some simple daughter of a simple man who works for Starks.

This is what author himself says about class system:

Q: What was the hardest thing in writing about such an alien world?

GRRM: The vast majority of fantasy is middle agey time wise, and he himself finds the period fascinating; glad to adopt it for novel writing - likes knights and castles and such. He objects to bad fantasy practice which adopts a time setting without accepting the culture - imposing 20th century values like the cheeky stableboy telling off the princess (in reality cheeky stableboy would lose his tongue - look what happend to Mycah); the class system was not just and ornament and these people truly belived in blood, and the rank and priviledge that came with "good" blood. [2006]

But Jeyne somehow had no fear when she was “bullying” a princess. Does this make sense to you or does it feel forced to make Arya look like a victim. And this bad writing keeps repeating itself while author writes Arya and when you realize this pattern you can’t unsee it and it ruins the books a little.

I wrote all these to explain what is ACTUALLY wrong with Arya as a character. I don’t blame Arya for the bad writing, I blame the author.

And I disagree with you a little when you said: "With Arya, sometimes it feels like I am not reading a 11 year old kid but a grown up 25 year old woman who never messes up things or has any characterisation flaws which are not inherent within like the other child characters but those failings are primarily influenced by the society.”

[I explained the her failings in society’s eyes part already.. that thing is a cliche and unrealistic writing]

I don’t agree with that reading Arya feels like reading an older woman. No it feels like reading a VERY UNREALISTIC AND DISTURBING CHILD. She totally makes mistakes:

Talking bad about prince in a room full of people, declining Queen’s invitations, not listening her septa and Sansa, making prince angry, hiding for 4 days while she should have gone to her father to deal with the mess so maybe Mycah and Lady wouldn’t be dead, attacking her sister, killing a stableboy, killing many other people, joining a assassin cult, killing a Black brother because she thinks she has the right etc..

She makes mistakes but we didn’t see her face any consequences. Will we see her face them?? When it comes to Arya I don’t trust GRRM. GRRM covers for her all the time. GRRM = Ned Stark. He favors her. I mean look at this:

Sansa saves Dontos who later molests her and he works for Baeslish who also molests her.

Arya saves Jaqen H’ghar and he turns out to be a Faceless Man who kills THREE people for her.

Sandor sexually assaults Sansa but not Arya [I am not saying he should!! But why is it always Sansa? Does the author punish Sansa for her beauty… ANSWER IS YES because I am done!]

Sansa trusts Joffrey and Cersei ends up the most hated character in the books [even author says she had a part in her father’s death and he is ok with fans hating her]

Meanwhile Arya’s spider senses tell her to not trust Roose Bolton or anyone etc.

Arya runs into people like Yoren or Harwin meanwhile Sansa… you got it.

Basically this is a simple case of author favoring a character and it happens in all books.

The only thing that indicates author knows she is not perfect is that him calling her a “psycho” or not disagreeing when fans call her a psycho [I know I usually make fun of this but actually this is not some good take about a child character especially if you say Starks- including Arya- are the heroes]

In conclusion: I think she is written terribly, she is the weakest part in the story and character building. I simply hate the way author deals with her character. I think she is not interesting. She turned out to be a very dark and disturbing child character and I have no idea what is GRRM trying to tell with her.

Thanks for the ask. Have a nice day.

[hellsbellschime]

Fans wanted Jon and Arya to kill Sansa for betraying starks but when Jon killed Dany because of danger she posed to starks suddenly it's misogyny. Sansa not agreeing with Jon somehow make her evil but dany abusing him is not. Sansa doesn't side with fan faves and have different ideologies make her LF 2.0 but dany who basically represent fire threat is not her father. Sansa wanting to be in power makes her power hungry but dany is precious. I sometimes wonder they are reading wrong.

I mean, they’re reading wrong, but intentionally because girly girl bad and hot dragon girl good. Like, D&D chose Sansa to be the one who was openly against Dany FOR A REASON, it’s not as if logically Jon and Arya and Bran and Davos and all of these other characters should have had misgivings about Dany as well, but they literally got a read on their audience reaction and knew that if they had Sansa and only Sansa be aggro towards Dany that the audience would presume that Sansa was the villain and Dany was still the hero, because the audience already didn’t like Sansa. 

[redteabaron]

Do you think instead of Arya pov in agot at sewing circle we should have Sansa pov? Compare to bran first chapter which shows male bonding with Ned stark and shows despite differences boys get along with each other, girls especially girly girls are portrayed in more negative way. Arya pov made people to sympathize more with her rather than showing insight of ladies duties. Cat wasn't even there unlike Ned with boys. Also boys get direwolves while girls are shown mean n frivolous.

I think we got less of Sansa's POV when we should have early on - at least in some crucial moments that helped define her immediately that, not necessarily make us "like people", but function to make them at the very least relatable. So I do agree we should've had more about Sansa and her daily life at home w/ interactions w/ her siblings as it would've cemented the Starks as a close, loving family. As it is, it leaves her looking somewhat aloof, remote, but we have instances of Arya's memories, of Jon's, Bran's, of Sansa being pleasant and even playful if not the most "hands on" playful. It doesn't match up - we are more being told about Sansa's interactions via other ppls' memories of her rather than seeing her perspective. I think it was a critical error, likely leftover from grrm changing from his original draft.

I don't think we necessarily needed Sansa's input on the sewing circle vs Arya's. It's more enjoyable to read a mixture of POVs that don't necessarily hold our hand for each character for all their interactions together, but I absolutely agree that we should've seen more of Sansa's POV around her siblings and not just in the moments when she's a pre-teen trying to impress the southerners she's read stories about and heard songs about (as well as trying to behave in an appropriate manner to the queen or other authority figures).

[nymerias-heart]

How I imagine Lyanna and Arya.

I think Lyanna would have a darker shade of brown hair then Arya (I didn't have dark brown markers on me, so the hair looks lighter then what I wanted it to be). I also think her hair would have been straighter. Catelyn has curly Auburn hair, there is no mention of Arya's hair being curly but we are told it was always tangled and messy like a birds nest so I'm assuming it has to be at least wavy.

The stark look consists of a long face, brown hair and Grey eyes. But also its mentioned that Arya has a pointy nose, so I'm guessing that's part of the stark look. So I drew both of them pointy noses, though Lyannas is more pointy because once again, even though Arya doesn't share any of catelyns features (other than long fingers) I still think you could still see the influence in Arya from catelyns genes as opposed to Lyanna who's parents were both starks and who I'm guessing both had the stark look not really giving her any variety.

I think they'd both have the same shade of grey eyes. Though the only thing ever mentioned about them is that they are grey (and that Arya has sad grey eyes, said by kindly man) we do know though that bran describes Jon's eyes as 'so dark they were almost black' and Jon thinks Arya has the same eyes as him. So both her and Lyanna have dark grey eyes, which I couldn't draw because they would just turn out looking black and look a bit weird, which is why I think most people just draw them lighter, so you can actually see the eyes.

Ned says Arya reminds him of Lyanna and that she looks like her, and Bran cannot tell the difference between a young Lyanna and Arya. So they obviously look VERY similar but that doesn't mean they have to look exactly the same and this is just my opinion on how they look.

Now onto the outfits (I'm not very good at drawing, I know😂😂). People in the fandom have a tendency to draw Arya in Browns and just dark colours in general and then draw Lyanna in bright blues and stuff...... And that just makes no sense to me.

Lyanna was raised in the North, for the majority of her life she had no connection to the south, no southern influence. Not only that but people forget that when the tourney of harrenhaal happened, everyone thought spring had come but it turned out to be a false spring, meaning that for most of her life, Lyanna grew up in the winter so her having darker clothes, that are thicker and have more fur makes more sense but yet you rarely see her in ones like that. Lyanna should be drawn in winter clothes, not only for the weather but also because in winter, people have more important things to care about then how the girls dressed(as long as she isn't dying from the cold because she was underdressed).

On the other hand, Arya whos mother is from the South, who was raised by a septa, and in a lot of southern ideas. 'she prayed with her mother in the sept and her father in the godswood' this Arya who had plenty of southern influence is always drawn in dark wintery clothes even though as ned says she 'was born in the long summer, you have never know anything else' so why does Arya who's whole life was spring and summer get winter clothes?

In my opinion it just stems from the idea that Arya is boyish therefore shes drawn in clothes that are deemed boyish but also northern. And Lyanna gets drawn in dresses and a lot more southern looking fashion and always with soft girly features, oh also shes always in a clean, neat gown even though everything we know about her tells us she's like Arya and isn't a girly girl. Just like Arya 'half a boy half a wolf pup', Lyanna is also described as boyish yet the fandom somehow glosses over that.

I'm sick of seeing Lyanna in blue dresses, when even after searching for any quote, I could not find any mention of Lyanna in a blue dress, nor in any dress. There's no mention of it. Yet in almost every single drawing of Lyanna she is wearing one. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️.

Also, see above quote. Lyanna is said to not hold any of elias delicate beauty and still she's always drawn as thus delicate perfect lady when everything we know about her contradicts that.

In the above image from the world of asoiaf, we see lyanna at the tourney of harrenhal and not a single blue dress in sight. That image was approved by george.

Anyways, sorry for the rant😂😂 but I just had to get that out.

[fedonciadale]

I never realized the crypt scene was so debated. Yes, Sansa ran off scared once ghost Jon emerged but the very fact that grrm included her in the scene at all speaks volumes. It would have been so easy to just have that as a scene between Robb, Jon, Arya & Bran with Sansa off doing something girly, but instead grrm included her and had her clinging to her big brother Robb for protection in the dark Far from showing her distance from her family it actually cements the fact that she was included.

Hi there!

I would not say it is ‘debated’. I would just say, that you can interpret it in different ways. It was Jon and Robb banding together to prank their younger siblings, and while it worked fine for Arya who saw through it, it scared Sansa. And she didn’t cling to Robb.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Jon and Robb were ‘mean’ here or anything, It’s just what older siblings do. And it is sort of natural to prank all of the younger siblings? To me the scene shows that the sibling dynamic is not easily defined as “Stark siblings” Jon and Arya on one side and “Tully siblings” on the other. It shows that the dynamics could be different everyday (although most of the times, Jon and Robb who did all the same stuff would probably be the closest). In this scene it’s older siblings against younger. In another scene it’s Bran and Arya against Sansa, in yet another scene it’s Robb and Jon fighting. At other times they do nice things for each other. Sansa tells stories to Bran, gives Jon advice on girls etc. The relationships are shifting and that is normal!

The crypt scene has many functions and giving us a glimpse into the childhood of the Stark children is just one of the many functions. I still think it is telling, that Sansa is the odd one out here. Nobody runs after her to calm her down. I would have been pissed in Sansa’s stead. Sometimes it is funny to be at the receiving end of your older siblings pranks and sometimes it is not. And it might be different for different siblings. What is a comforting memory for Arya might look completely different for Sansa who has heard scary things about the crypts from Old Nan.

Fear cuts deeper than swords, the quiet voice inside her whispered. Suddenly Arya remembered the crypts at Winterfell. They were a lot scarier than this place, she told herself. She'd been just a little girl the first time she saw them. Her brother Robb had taken them down, her and Sansa and baby Bran, who'd been no bigger than Rickon was now. They'd only had one candle between them, and Bran's eyes had gotten as big as saucers as he stared at the stone faces of the Kings of Winter, with their wolves at their feet and their iron swords across their laps.

Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her [Sansa] there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. "There are worse things than spiders and rats," he whispered. "This is where the dead walk." That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya's hand.         

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb's leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. "You stupid," she told him, "you scared the baby," but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too.   (AGOT, Arya IV) 

We don’t know what happened after, the children might have gone after Sansa, but we don’t know and we don’t see this scene from Sansa’s PoV.

Just my thoughts on the scene, obviously, but I really think we should allow for a less static interpretation of the sibling dynamics in the Stark household.

Thanks for the ask!

[alicenttully]

I will never understand people who think grrm made Sansa to be some sort of evil within the Stark family. He added Sansa because the Starks were one note and unrealistic without her. The entire family liked the same things to an extent and the only female child was a tomboy who had the same interests as her brothers. It was something that had been done before and it was pretty boring. Sansa as the girly girl that conformed easily and had very different interests made things more interesting. It helped grrm do a better exploration of the patriarchy and showed that women are punished by the system no matter what. It gave him a real political perspective among the Starks and allowed him to show the Stark values in different situations. He’s written more chapters for her than Bran at this point and has her as a central point of several characters’ journeys in affc.

You know, I'm still trying to figure out where people get the idea that Sansa was a "villian" in the original 1993 outline.

Because how?

Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue.

Based on the outline, it appears that Sansa was already married and had a son with Joffrey by the time the conflict between the Starks and Lannisters began - "when the crunch comes." As you astutely pointed out, what if for whatever reason House Tully supported the Lannisters during WO5K? Should Cat choose her father and brother over supporting her children? Of course not. Furthermore, Westeros is a feudal, medieval society built on patriarchal norms - Sansa was effectively Joffrey's property. She cannot divorce him. An anullment isn't a possibility, and not something the Lannisters would be interested in. It's also arguable that even if she did want to leave with her son, just as Sansa was heavily guarded as a hostage - so too would Sansa's son as the heir to the Throne. I also think people need to take into account that the outline is essentially ideas, not fully formed characters. I get the impression sometimes that some people think OG Sansa "turning against" her family (and as I've explained before, that is a incredibly immature way to describe the situation Sansa was in) but that would be quite unrealistic. Sansa was absolutely in the right for choosing her child and by extension her husband (and this is likely one of the reasons George abandoned this plot for her because he realized this) but that doesn't automatically translate into her not loving her family or it being an incredibly painful decision. How do we know that Sansa wouldn't have prayed for the conflict between the Starks and Lannisters to end peacefully? How do we know that Sansa didn't secretly hope that it would, for her son's sake so he could get to meet his maternal grandmother?

Anyway you're absolutely right - The Stark family wouldn't be what they are without Sansa. She like Cat, gave a much needed perspective that tends to be ignored in the genre. In many ways, her narrative serves as the deconstruction of the princess in the tower. She's an overtly feminine character, but it's the fandom's fault for villanising her and pitting her against her tomboy sister, whereas although I do think George has his biases - I do think his thoughts on the subject have evolved considerably. Like, so often I'll hear people (ie Arya stans) say that Sansa was concieved as a foil for Arya and I'm like OK? If anything, all he did was add more depth to Arya as a character by giving her a sibling that she loves but whom represents her feelings of inadequacy and anger that have been fuelled by patriarchal norms. As "foils", this only makes Arya's choice to be even more powerful when she decides to embrace being herself. But moving on, it's very obvious to most people that Sansa's narrative and endgame (even if they don't believe she'll be QITN/LOW) is a lot more evolved beyond "she was mean to Arya and Arya was jealous of her" and she is a character whose importance exists entirely outside of Arya.

[darkenedprongs]

Robert x Ned Modern-AU

So I kept thinking about GoT the other day, Robert and Ned specifically. I have this Modern AU where Robert and Ned get together after Ned has been widowed. Other events also go a lot differently than canon, such as Renly being older when Steffon and Cassana die. I don’t think I can write an actual fic but I just wanted to get it out of my head and into words so here it is even if it’s a little disjointed.

*Robert never marries Cersei. Lyanna was never a love interest of Robert’s; he just sees her as Ned’s kid sister. Robert totally has a crush on Ned though and has no idea what to do about it, since he’s pretty damn certain that Ned is straight as a ruler.

*Steffon and Cassana die in a car crash when Robert is 18, Stannis is 16, and Renly is 8. Robert gets joint custody with Jon Arryn of his younger brothers. Jon was business partners with Steffon and Rickard Stark and also the godfather of Robert and Ned. He helps Robert with raising Renly. Stannis is almost grown and decides to go live with his grandfather Estermont and to enlist in the Navy when he’s 18. So it’s just Robert and Renly living with Jon.

*There’s no royal family in this AU but the Targaryens still exist as a wealthy old money family. Aerys is not crazy as a shit-house rat and he and Rhaella are not siblings, but more like 3rd cousins twice removed. Still related but distantly so it’s not as creepy I guess. Their marriage was more to tie the two branches of the family closer together so they don’t really love each other, but they’ve found a way to make it work and both are discreet in their extramarital affairs.

Rhaegar is married to Elia and Rhaenys and Aegon still exist along with two other children- a boy, named Oberon after his uncle Oberyn and a girl named Rhaelle. Their marriage is one of love and Elia is not frail of health.

Ned marries Catelyn but she was never with Brandon. Brandon married Barbrey Dustin and they have 3 children together. They work in her family’s horse breeding and racing business. Benjen joined the Coast Guard and Lyanna went to University to become a social worker. Ned works under his father as Brandon wasn’t interested in the family business.

Ned and Catelyn still have Robb, with Jon as his twin, then Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon. Robert is heartbroken that Ned got married, but he pushed his feelings down and decided if he couldn’t be Ned’s husband, best friend and godfather to his children was just as good. The Starklings grow up with Uncle Robert, who is just as involved in their lives as their parents.

Robert goes to all their games, competitions, and recitals and is just as proud as Ned and Catelyn. He helps teach Robb and Jon to shave when Ned has a broken arm and can’t hold a razor very well to demonstrate, and he helps bridge the gap between Catelyn and Arya, the former not really knowing what to do with a daughter who’s not ultra girly like Sansa is.

When the kids are pretty much grown, with only 17 year old Rickon at home, Catelyn is killed in a car accident while driving home from visiting her father in the assisted living facility. Ned and the kids are all devastated, with Ned taking to his bed and not wanting to get up due to the weight of his grief. Robert quietly handles the arrangements with Catelyn’s uncle Brynden, Hoster not being in his right mind and Ned in no shape to handle it either. Robert comforts his godchildren, especially Rickon, who is in a state of shock at his mother’s passing.

Ned manages to pull himself together after a week or so, agreeing to Robert’s idea to see a grief counselor. Robert moves in to offer Ned support. After a year or so, Ned is freaking out at Jon Arryn’s house, pacing the floor in Jon’s study and admitting he might have more than brotherly feelings for Robert.

Jon isn’t dumb or blind; he knew how Robert felt (and still feels) about Ned. He cautions Ned to consider why he feels this way. Is it misplaced gratitude for everything Robert’s done for him and his family over the past year? Maybe he should speak with his therapist about this. Ned makes an appointment with Ellaria for the next day. Meanwhile, Robert is cursing himself for a fool, angry that he can’t just shove his more-than-brotherly feelings for Ned back into the corner of his heart he’d originally stashed them in all those years ago. He should not be feeling this way about his best friend who is still grieving for his wife.

The Starklings are definitely aware of how Uncle Robert feels about their Dad. They ambush Robert and basically tell him to man up. Yeah Ned is still grieving for Catelyn, but it’s been over a year now and they want their Dad to be happy. Yes Uncle Robert, Dad does have feelings for you. He had a Big Gay Panic in Uncle Jon’s office last week and had an appointment with his therapist about it. Now go put on your big boy pants and go woo our Dad.

Robert’s pretty shocked but then says fuck it, he’s got the kids’ blessing so he’s going for it. Robert is going to show Ned just how special he is to him. Ned is quite gobsmacked to come home to no kids and Robert setting up a candlelit dinner in the sunroom. Ned’s favorite classical album is playing softly and there’s a vase of sunflowers (Ned’s favorite) on the table. ‘Surprise?’ Robert says softly. Ned is so overcome with love for his best friend, the man who has been a part of his family for so long, who dropped everything to help him during this past year, who has always adored his kids and treated Cate like a sister.

He strides forward and wraps his arms around Robert’s neck, breathing a soft ‘thank you’ in his ear. Robert smiles as they sit down to dinner, and he and Ned get to know each other in a whole new way. They go to bed after dinner, but just to sleep. Ned is content to be wrapped in Robert’s arms, lulled to sleep by the rhythm of his breathing and his soft snores.

[stardyng]

You know, I think if this was the other way around, if Arya was the only girl in her family who liked doing more "masculine" centered stuff and she was surrounded by girl siblings who put down her interests and preferred sewing and dancing, the asoiaf fandom would be team arya, and want her to escape to King's Landing, where they have girls who fight and swordplay and do all these things she enjoys. (pt 1)

(pt.2) if it was Sansa as the younger sibling, who Arya put her hopes into having a sister who finally could enjoy what she did…only to have her think boy stuff is dumb and following her older, girly sisters, Arya’s disappointment about her unsatisfactory sister would be justified, and not a betrayal of sisterhood. But because it’s SANSA who prefers FEMININE centered stuff, and is surrounded by boy siblings who put her down for these interests, it’s fine.

(pt3) because its a younger girl sibling who also puts down these interests and prefers boyish things, that’s alright and Sansa is a bad sister and selfish for wanting to escape to a place that would appreciate and enjoy the things she enjoys. Sansa is wrong for wanting to stay there, but guarantee if it was Arya who was enjoying being able to fight and ride and be herself to the fullest and feel like she belongs, only to be told she has to go back to winterfell to marry and give it all up…

(pt4) they’d be on her side when she tries to stay. But because it’s Sansa who wants to stay with her girly wants, it’s stupid and she’s stupid too.

(pt5) GRRM flipped the trope on its head. Now its the girly-girl feeling left out instead of the tomboy. Now its the girl who likes feminine stuff who feels lonely and wants to escape to a place where she feels she really can be herself, and its the tomboy who fits in with her siblings. Even has a father who lets her get away with it, rather than reprimand her. Funnily enough, the fandom hates Sansa for it, but would undoubtedly love Arya if she were in Sansa’s shoes.

You are definitely right. People have always prioritized and put more effort into understanding any motivation that is intricately linked with traditional masculinity than they are with any kind of motivation linked with traditional femininity. There have been so many stories with that same general premise, and none of the characters of these stories have been degraded for wanting to escape their childhood home in order to have adventures or build a career. For example, barely anyone puts any attention to the fact that Arya wanted to stay in King’s Landing as well in order to continue her fighting lessons. The only reason she was fine with leaving is because Ned made a compromise with her about it. On the other hand, Sansa is criticized that heavily about wanting to stay in King’s Landing not simply because she wants to escape what she sees as a boring home where nothing happens, but for doing so while having motivations that are more linked with things most viewers view as being superfluous and shallow because they are female-coded.

It’s also interesting to see how much the fact that Sansa has felt lonely through out her childhood and the fact that she never had a sibling that she can relate to, have both being swept aside so casually by the fandom. Either she’s portrayed as the really popular girl who made every other girl in Winterfell bully Arya or as this brat who was never really grateful of what she had in the North. She’s asked to be fine with what she has because the readers/watchers don’t attribute any kind of value to what she wants. That being said, all the other Stark children have a sibling that they can relate to on a deeper level or at the very least. The same cannot be said with Sansa who not only have siblings that look down on many of the things she likes and does, but a father who won’t even dedicate time to build a proper relationship with her (who ends up practically neglecting her later on in the story). In this fandom, there have been quite a few people who voiced their sympathy for Arya because Catelyn apparently did not really love her despite there been no proof whatsoever of that in the actual story, but people won’t sympathize with Sansa despite how isolated she is in her own family. 

There’s also the whole concept in the story itself that everything that have to do with the North and Winterfell is superior, and everything having to do with the South is inferior. The Northern Gods are obviously superior, and if a character (especially a Northern one) doesn’t believe in them, then that means that they are worth less for it. The Northerners don’t really care for tourneys so every character who does have some interest in them are lesser for it. Essentially, the morals, values, general appearance and beliefs that are linked with the North are portrayed as superior to these of other Houses, and the fact that a character like Sansa initially rejects these things also make people unreasonably criticize her. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with her preferring many of the things that come from the South. 

All in all, I agree with all you stated in this ask. There is a clear double standard that exists in this fandom as well as this reluctance to understand anything remotely linked with traditional femininity. Arya will get more sympathy for theories about her time in Winterfell that are based on nothing in the actual story than Sansa gets for feeling alone in her own family and home when the canon story proves that this is an actual thing. Sansa gets vilified for wanting to go to King’s Landing for the tourneys, the songs, and for a possible good engagement than Bran ever got for wanting to go to King’s Landing as well in order to become a knight. Sansa gets criticism for not completely embodying the Northern ideal and she could breathe the wrong way and people would call her disloyal to her family but Robb can choose to not exchange Jaime for his sisters and that’s perfectly understandable and the best thing to do. People will put the least amount of effort possible to understand Sansa’s character, and it shows.