#but critical asheiji

[ultimate-tragic-couples-showdown]

Round 4 - Poll 5

Vax'ildan & Keyleth of the Air Ashari (Critical Role) vs Ash Lynx & Eiji Okumura (Banana Fish) 

[fangxin-guoshi]

Banana fish re-review ~

I did a rewatch of banana fish and oh my God I forgot how good this series was. Considering the original manga came out in the 80's in JAPAN, it was SO ahead of its time. One of the best depictions of gay characters I've ever seen in Japanese media, even by today's standards.

Some more silly thoughts:

Like yoshida just casually dropped a manga with an insanely progressive take on the bl genre by showing a complex queer interracial relationship with incredibly well-written characters. Honestly the fact that ash and eiji's relationship wasn't explicitly defined as romantic is a plus imo. Not being able to rely on obvious romantic gestures like kissing, hand-holding, romantic confessions, etc. actually forces the writer to develop their relationship without that crutch to lean on. That's why ash and eiji's relationship is so good, because it doesn't rely on surface-level romance to get across the fact that they love each other and instead use subtlety and little nuances in their interactions. It's obvious from the subtext and how much they're shown to care for each other.

Not to mention the great depiction of black characters (I know portraying black characters non-offensively is like, the bare minimum, but may I remind you this is the EIGHTIES in JAPAN, and there are so many CURRENT animes that have an issue with it).

I mean yea does it have its flaws? Sure. Ash's admittedly very lame "lynx" title that comes with many wildcat metaphors, eiji being a bit passive in the first half, sort of cringe portrayal of America, etc. but my God the way she handles the trauma and character dynamics is incredible.

Ok so I did have a uh... Not really a criticism but something that I noticed that got me thinking. I feel like some shows use dark subject matter as a bit of an easy way to evoke an emotional reaction from the audience. Sometimes authors give characters horrible backstories as a way to make the audience THINK the character is complex and interesting but in reality it's a bit of a lazy writing tactic. Low effort high reward kind of thing. Banana fish obviously does have brutal subject matter and ash is really put through the ringer, but I love that yoshida doesn't let that become the axis of his character. He has trauma that greatly impacts him, but he's also super developed on his own apart from that. When I think about Ash's character, I don't immediately think about the traumatic backstory parts. The balance between how significantly the trauma affects him vs making sure that's not the ONLY part of his character is extremely well-executed.

Scenes that stuck out to me (not including asheiji ones bc it goes without saying theyre all amazing)

- the interrogator playing Ash's tapes after being arrested ("later, movie star" was the most brutal line ever omg)

- max burning the photos of ash (underrated moment this was SO good),

- any and all interactions between sing and blanca (they're such an unlikely duo peak comedy right there)

- the convo between sing and yut lung in the last episode

- ash stabbing the guy in the dick with a fork

- callback to ^^^, ash stabbing the banana with a fork

- Ash's breakdown in front of dino (ep 19 I believe)

- the entirety of ash escaping from the "mental hospital" and then having to go rescue ibe and max lmaooo

- ash brutally murdering Abraham(?, the redhead guy) by blowing abt a thousand holes in him w a machine gun as payback for shorter

- ash shooting shorter

- running joke of max being Ash's dad

- everyone constantly manhandling yut lung by yanking on his hair (dude get a haircut)

- ash immediately going to shoot himself no hesitation after yut lung told him he wouldn't hurt eiji if he did so (technically asheiji but I'm keeping it since this was a yut lung and ash scene)

- "what does this picture look like?" "Your wife"

- eiji's cute stupid little outfit he wore when he went to go find shorter in Chinatown

I also have a confession:

I LOVE yut lung. Him being paralleled with ash, but instead of finding love he let hate consume him because he had no one unlike ash who had eiji was just devastating but in a good way.

So yea those are my messy thoughts after finishing it. I'd argue that it was probably one of the best pieces of queer media to exist at the time. In the world. And one of my personal favorite pieces of queer media ever.

[theawkwardone6]

AshEiji name their son griffin no I do not take criticism

[fairydust-stuff]

My thoughts on Asheiji: It drives me crazy!

Asheiji is one of those ships  that leaves me very conflicted. While everyone else sings its praises constantly its never been a top ship of mine. 

 On the surface its a great ship. Eiji is the only person who see’s Ash as an actual human being rather then an object or a demon and Ash would do anything for Eiji. There is geninue warmth and the two of them seem to enjoy each others company. 

 Some of it is just personal preference like for instance that fact that Ash who is cold and distrustful of everyone just  trusts Eiji after knowing him for two seconds and just hands over his gun because his eyes are so innocent. Yeah sorry that was kind of dumb in my opinion. 

Also Eiji being presented as someone who’s moral but he has no problem with the stuff Ash is doing until he finds out the gangsters are unarmed its like????

But other then that  Asheiji makes sense in universe. Ash is an abused prostitute/ gangster people either worship or degrade him and Eiji is the first one to show Ash actual kindness. He’s not apart of Ash’s world, he’s innocent and seems to have the freedom Ash craves. 

Eiji is consumed by depression after the accident that resulted in a leg injury that made him give up pole vaulting and Ash seems fresh and exciting something to distract from his problems. That coupled with the two of them being into thrust  into multiple adrenaline laced situations of survival and yes I can see how those feelings of attraction and caring are intensified. 

But there are so many problems in this relationship I don’t think going to Japan is just going to casually fix. 

Ash is controlling

Look i get it Ash constantly loses people, so he wants to do whatever is in his power to protect this new amazing  person in his life. But regardless of his justifications.   

Ash keeps Eiji in the dark constantly, he tries to trick/ ,manipulate him into going home on a few occasions. Having Bones and Kong take him to airport without telling Eiji and later hurting Eiji’s feelings so that he’ll go back to Japan. I know that Ash wants to protect him, but its still Ash forcing his will on Eiji and blatently ignoring that Eiji wants to stay by his side. If Ash was real he’d be the guy who put a tracker on Eiji’s phone without telling him.  

And the thing is Eiji is not ok with this either. In the second half of the series Eiji states he wishes Ash would let him know what’s going on. When Ash brings up its to protect him. Eiji interjects with “I know but” and is dismissed again after he states once again he doesn’t like being useless.   Ash wants a regular relationship but he’s not very good at stepping back and sharing the decision making process with Eiji as his partner. 

Eiji is a lie 

Maybe that’s an exaggeration but the prequel “Fly Boy in the Sky” reveals that Eiji hasn’t exactly lived the kind of carefree life. That Ash and Yut Lung think he has. A hospitalized dad, demanding althletic career, two full time jobs to make ends meet and a cheating mother who has a tendency to lash out at him. 

   Eiji never talks about his problems, his broken family or why he really left Japan even to Ash. Eiji also never discusses Shorter, Skip or anyone he saw die. This suggests that Eiji has crafted a perfect image of himself for Ash hiding the ugly parts of himself particularly his depression. So Ash doesn’t know Eiji beyond the image he’s crafted for Ash. 

Eiji doesn’t understand Ash 

I don’t think Eiji actually understands Ash and I don’t fault him for that. He’s a boy who grew up in a small town who’s niave. He’s not going to grasp just how messed up the trained child murder/sex slave is but Eiji seems to view being a gangster as a game. Its takes a while for it to sink in that this is serious but even then Eiji never seems to fully grasp who he’s decided to love. When faced with Yut Lung as a reflection of Ash’s dark side. Eiji is both repulsed and confused  and to me it stands as a huge red flag, about how Eiji cann’t handle the reality of what Ash is.  

Their communication issues

Communication is the thing that can either make or break a relationship and usually Ash and Eiji bottle up their issues until they both explode at each other! Sure they appologize for comments that crossed a line but the issues never get resolved and the ending just clinches why these two have terrible communication which I will get to. 

Now this isn’t a bad thing persay lots of relationships start out with problems are no couple is perfect but the problem is these issues don’t get resolved in cannon if anything they get worse. 

The ending 

Honestly I had some hope that these two could actually improve Ash made an actual appology and Eiji showed by leading a rescue party showing Ash first hand that Eiji isn’t completely helpless. Ash even let Eiji join in the final battle aginst Fox and stopped trying to send him back to Japan. So it looked like baby steps were being made.

 Then Ash had to go and blow a hole in his own ship by deciding to make the choice that Eiji had to lose him again without even consulting Eiji on the matter and anyone who knows Eiji would realize this was the absolute worst thing to do to him!  

Conclusion 

I don’t not ship it and i’ll even write it  but in cannon they are kind of a deeply flawed train wreck and I think the fandom overall ignores the deep seated problems these two have. 

 I want to smack both of them and yell “ Get thee to a relationship councilor!”  I think even if Ash hadn’t died them lasting would of been questionible at best but stranger couples have made it in real life so who knows.

 its not a deal breaker for me. A little work and these two could be really great but overall i’m really picky about my Asheiji fics because the majority of the fandom writes Asheiji as this flawless couple and Eiji gets overly woobied and yeah it just does not appeal to me.   

[asexual-ashlynx]

Banana Fish as inexplicable stock photos because I can

[eijispumpkin]

(that was possibly my favorite description of shorter ever) then how about eiji? <3

(THANK U IM SO GLAD AHH) YES yes yes lets go lets go EIJI TIME

favorite thing about them

he is so incredibly well-rounded as a character and i ADORE that!!! he's a jock. he has depression. he likes photography. he has a thing for Weird Bird Accessories. he is impulsive. he's full of love. he refuses to give up no matter what the odds are. he's sheltered and naive in some ways but that doesn't stop him from wanting to do what he feels is right. he is FULL OF LOVE.

least favorite thing about them

not about him per se, but i don't love the way gol + the max lobo memoirs set it up that he's grieving essentially his whole life, or the way the fandom acts like if he's gonna be happy if ash is dead it HAS to be bc he got together with someone else. like... let him heal and also he can find fulfillment without necessitating a romance??

favorite line

brOTP

eiji & ibe, eiji & his sister, eiji & alex & bones & kong !!!!!

OTP

ASHEIJI MY BELOVEDS (this surprises approximately no one im sure)

nOTP

gol sing/eiji, shor/eiji. for gol sing/eiji i can see it as unrequited but i don't see eiji returning sing's feelings.

for shor/eiji i strongly feel that shorter as a person is more okay with doing fucked up things than eiji will ever be, and that if shorter survived longer that would've been a major point of contention btwn them + that they would not actually work in a relationship long-term (even platonically) bc of it. like, the thing eiji called ash out for when they argued (i.e. ruthlessness) is just shorter's daily routine. also shorter is lawful neutral (as in, he operates within systems of rules/believes that rules and systems are the best way to do things, and is more concerned with protecting himself + his loved ones than the nebulous concept of Doing Good) while eiji is chaotic good (if a rule is unjust he Will break it, and he will Not do fucked up things even if ordered to. classic "if the door to opportunity is locked i'll break the window" energy.)

random headcanon

he's trans. we all know this. specifically he's trans, demisexual, and gay.

unpopular opinion

i swear to god if i see another goddamn racist "infantilizing asian men" take i'm gonna go ballistic. "anime eiji got CENSORED and is TOO CUTESY and manga eiji is BETTER. mappa censored him MOST" no he got censored the same amount as everyone else and you are just autofilling him in as being cutesy and overly innocent bc of racist stereotypes ingrained in western cultures <3 manga purists shut the fuck up and think critically for 0.3 seconds challenge <3

song i associate with them

"wake up" by coheed and cambria or "little bird" by mree!

favorite picture of them

continuing my theme of "random low res caps" sdjbfkjdbks look at him go :O

[a-random-person-in-the-planet]

could,,, could you draw asheiji cuddling?

HERE THEY ARE :D

ash seems like the type of person who criticizes movies while watching them lol

[http-eiji]

So another interview resurfaced where Yoshida says Eiji probably would be in happy and normal marriage with kids after he gets over Ash and some people think it means Eiji is bi and it's a realistic outcome some are unhappy about it since it repeats homophobic tropes and some think it confirms Yoshida never thought about Ash and Eiji as anything beyond platonic soulmates and wouldn't get them together even if she hadn't killed Ash. She's random and it don't really matter but what do you think?

So first of all, for people reading this who get too caught up in what Yoshida says in her interviews, please don't.

1. You're reading an interview that has been translated (stuff gets lost in translation and Japanese and English are very different languages).

2. It's been what, 35? 36? years since BF started publication. She may not remember her reasons for doing xyz or she might not agree with them anymore. People changed. Plus its possible she says stuff and forgets she says it.

3. She doesn't like interviews and I get the impression she sometimes says stuff for the heck of it.

So just, take everything she says in interviews with a grain of salt. This also isn't a criticism towards her, it's the same with most creators of stories this old.

But to talk about what anon asked, well...

Because of what I just said above I don't think it confirms anything really.

For the sake of what I'm about to say, rather than saying platonic, or romantic or terminology like that, I'm going to just say "queer".

So let's say Ash and Eiji aren't queer... that would make the only queer people in BF pedophiles. Which is deeply homophobic, I don't think I need to elaborate on that.

So, if we say that AshEiji are queer, at the very least it means there's an acknowledgement that not all mlm are pedophiles (which is a bare minimum).

It's still not great though. Ash dies and Eiji is left in a state of denial for 7 years until he accepts it. There's nothing in canon to suggest he marries or enters a new relationship post-GOL, but nothing to suggest he doesn't either.

I'm not going to talk about if Ash's death is homophobic, I don't think it's BYGs though, but that's a whole other post.

Let's just focus on whether or not it would be homophobic for Eiji to marry a woman and start a family.

My answer is that it entirely depends on who you talk to but I don't think it's great. If Eiji isn't queer at all, the text is homophobic because all canoncially queer people are pedophiles. If he is queer, it's still not great that all queer people are pedophiles or only end up happy when they're in straight (or straight passing) relationships. It could imply that queer people are either immoral or condemned to live awful lives unless they "choose to be straight". (I don't necessarily think that's what Yoshida intended but I'm not her. I'm just discussing how it could be read.)

To clarify, there's nothing wrong or inherently homophobic about a queer person ending up in a straight passing relationship, context is key here which is why I've added all this info. It's also why some people will say it's not homophobic.

Ultimately, my opinion is that it wouldn't be great but I get why others may have pretty neutral opinions on it.

[myherowritings]

Welcome to the *we survived banana fish* club. It gets better I promise. Also the anime has an open ending so they totally got him to the hospital in time in my head and no I don’t take criticism

DID I SURVIVE THO? THIS DOESN’T FEEL LIKE SURVIVAL i woke up with swollen puffy eyes from crying myself to sleep and my first thought waking up was asheiji and i just want to cry again and it hurts but i’m too numb and my tear ducts have been sucked dry,,,

going thru the 5 stages of grief and i’m only on stage 1 denial 😭😭😭😭

[ao3feed-skk]

by asheijis

atsushi decides to add some ada members and some pm members into a group chat. its been a day and he already is ready to steal some phones.

Words: 667, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English

Fandoms: 文豪ストレイドッグス | Bungou Stray Dogs

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: Gen

Characters: Bungou Stray Dogs Ensemble

Relationships: Akutagawa Ryuunosuke/Nakajima Atsushi (Bungou Stray Dogs), Dazai Osamu/Nakahara Chuuya (Bungou Stray Dogs), Akutagawa Gin/Higuchi Ichiyou

Additional Tags: another basic gc au, maybe its ooc we arent gonna talk about it, its normal canon but with . slight mentions of a college au, but only barely i mention it Twice, i make an au and then forget it while writing said au, Post-Guild Arc (Bungou Stray Dogs), pre hunting dogs tho, ive also decided mori doesnt exist /j but srsly chuuya n kouyou run the pm in this as well, moris off like. idk finding himself who knows, Everyone Is Gay, kyouka swears and everyone loses their shit, everyone except the wlw drank major dumbass juice, nb lesbian gin bc its what they DESERVE, Dazai-Typical Suicide Mentions (Bungou Stray Dogs), this was originally written at 3am and now it has a semblance of plot and idk how it happened, ALSO kyoukas basically atsushis little sister no i will NOT take criticism on this

[silverquillsideas]

What do you think about the artworks about Blanca and Ash in the artbook "Angel Eyes"? I've often seen people critizize it due to it being suggestive and sensual and how Yoshida could draw them like that.

Hello anon. Hm... Interesting question. I really cannot be a judge of how or what Yoshida was thinking when she created those drawings. As far as I remember, the Blanca / Ash drawings were a lot fewer than those of Ash and Eiji’s together, but yeah, as you mentioned, they were far more sensual than the more innocent Asheiji ones.

I do know that a lot of people don’t like Blanca, for various reasons, and that’s why seeing the creator herself indulging in artworks, that to them, might appear to be ‘inappropriate’ or ‘inconsiderate’ to Ash, as a character. Hence, the outrage over “how could she do that?!”

Blanca was Ash’s mentor, probably the first adult who extended a hand of friendship without any attached strings or conditions to a young Ash, who, at that time, was pretty much a captive in Dino’s clutches. Ash trusted Blanca, a great deal, to the very end, and that, above all else says a lot about who Blanca was as a person. Throughout Private Opinion, Blanca got through Ash’s natural defenses and actually tried to understand who he was, something no one else at that point of time, had even bothered to do. They bickered, teased each other, shared stories about their past (Blanca trusted Ash enough to reveal his true identity), and all through that time, Blanca taught Ash the skills he’d need to survive in the world he had been thrown in.

I have often wondered why Blanca never tried to defy Dino and get Ash out of there safely, even if it’d paint a target over both their foreheads. I guess escaping the violent mafia world looks like a good option in fantasy but not in real terms? Who knows? Blanca’s suggestion to Ash to get back to Dino, even after all the torture he had faced in his past was the tipping point at which most fans’ dislike of him intensified. But thing is, I do see where he came from. Dino’s web was just that vast and inescapable that time, and given the conditions put on Ash (Eiji’s death against his submission) that was probably the best option he could come up with. Blanca had been a mercenary all his life, right from age 8 or 9, when he was drafted into KGB’s gruelling training regime. Following orders and obeying commands is what he was trained to do. The one time he actually rebelled, the woman he truly loved was killed. With that kind of background and experience, he tried his best to spare Ash the pain of losing the people closest to him, even if the cost was steep.

Anyway, my ramble is getting long, I’ll wrap it up here. I personally don’t see a problem with the drawings…they can be left upto any interpretation you might like : whether canon, a future, a what-could-have-been, or imaginary scenarios that need not necessarily be true, whichever way you might look at it. They were simply illustrations of how Yoshida envisioned Ash and Blanca’s dynamic. They were deliberately sensual, yes, but I don’t think there has to be a mandatory, or canon shippy angle to it, the exact reason over which all the outcry is about. Sometimes just plain labels like ‘age gap, ew gross’ or ‘teacher-student is a big no’ or even ‘oh, but there’s such a power imbalance!’ aren’t justified reasons to crucify any particular character-dynamic over, human interactions, and their reflection in fictional worlds are much more complex than that.

But yeah, definitely, disliking / liking any particular type of art is entirely up to the person, and no interpretation of any fictional content is inherently wrong. Each one of us does and should have our own likes/dislikes/boundaries concerning what we see depicted in art or elsewhere! People’s criticisms are valid, so are others’ appreciations. At the end, it's up to you. :)

[coffeekoe]

I just opened my tumblr to a giant rant about why asheiji is a terrible ship. What is actually wrong with this fandom? I mean this very genuinely and this isn’t about my love of asheiji, it’s about the fact that the people in this fandom literally HATE banana fish?? 

I see so many people ‘in’ the fandom posting rant after rant of anything and everything they hate about the show to the point where they hate,, everything?

It is so unbelievably bizarre to me, truly. Never before have I been in a fandom where the ‘fans??’ critique and criticize EVERYTHING. When I say EVERYTHING, I am not exaggerating though I honestly wish I were.

For the last few months i’ve gone out of my way to not read any paragraphs people write about the show because I don’t want to read about why this show that I love is trash or morally wrong or the ethics are bad or the plot is garbage, the ending is terrible, it shouldn’t have this key element in it ECT ECT.

It like,, depresses me that I go to these hashtags and fandom spaces to share love of this media I adore,, and then find the ‘fans’ bashing it and tearing it to shreds.

So many people have left this fandom and grown apart from it and I used to never understand why but now i sincerely do and don’t blame a single person for dropping their bf accounts\blogs because shit man i’m close to doing that too. 

I can’t scroll past 5 posts in the tag without seeing people IN this community explaining why it’s terrible or why ships are terrible, the characters, the plot. Everything.

This is the kind of stuff i’d expect to see outside of a fandom, people constantly arguing and yelling about a media that they don’t like yet.. all of this has been within the fandom. Which is where all of my confusion, sadness and anger comes from.

I love tumblr, i really do. It’s such a funny place to create but i think as of right now i’m gonna stop posting my own bf content as I just from the bottom of my heart don’t want to interact with the people in the fandom on here.

That’s not to say I don’t have any really lovely mutuals who share very similar opinions and experiences to me but the bad definitely out-way the good. 

More than any other app, i’ve seen the worst BF takes of my damn life on this site LMAO. And to be honest, i’m done. I’m done reading this bullshit. I’m done reading this slander?? and hated. I’m done reading horrid takes about ptsd, trauma, writing, art etc. 

Seeing a massive post yelling why this ship that i’ve clung onto for support and happiness over the last year is awful was my last straw FR LMAOO.

I’m still making bf content and art and edits etc just not on here. It’s not like my content even ever did that well on here like?? So it’s not that big of a change LOL. If you want to see my banana fish art please follow my art instagram coffeekoe.art :)

EDIT: Just realized that the person who wrote that shit is a very mean\rude person to like everyone in their replies, and is getting fuckin clowned on for good reason HAHA this makes me laugh, banana fish tumblr fandom you have earned back points for this, still not gonna keep posting my stuff to the tag but,,, i applaud thee 

[hopelesshawks]

This song screams Asheiji vibes, no I won’t be taking criticism at this time

[orangeflowerpetals]

August out of context is a asheiji song no I won't be taking criticism

[eijispumpkin]

seems like it’s impossible to enter any sort of asheiji tag lately without seeing people talking about That Interview™, so i guess here’s my two cents that no one asked for!

bottom line is, i think a lot of yall are forgetting that homophobia exists.

“this character isn’t REALLY queer; they’re straight! they just had one (1) exception!” is a p common homophobic trope. so is “it was just a phase after all, and they left that immature kind of love behind to become Normal again as they grew up!”. neither of these is bi rep???? i am a little bit in awe that that’s something that needs to be said??? they’re just homophobia???

like... yoshida has made some pretty contradictory statements as to whether ash and eiji were even intended to be romantic (sometimes she says they were; sometimes she says they were platonic, depending on the interview you read). i would def say she’s not as homophobic as plenty of authors in the 80s and 90s were, but that doesn’t mean her stances were infallible.

y’all have gotta do some critical thinking sometimes. a heterosexual author shoehorning a queer-coded male character into a m/f relationship with a faceless, nameless wife is not confirmation of bisexual rep. it is blatant homophobia.

also, it was like, a side thought she threw out without really considering, yeah?? so maybe stop giving it so much weight and let’s just go back to ignoring what she says like we do about everything else???

but also seriously yall. critical thinking. stop defending homophobia please.