#but that's just a theory.... a SPIDERVERSE theory

[beautyisinkonpaper]

thinking about Hobie and Gwen (minor spoilers)

I keep thinking about how Gwen Stacy is a punk rock legend in Hobie's universe, to the point where Hobie refers to her as "the greatest artist of our generation"

So I'm imagining Spiderverse Gwen meeting Hobie for the first time

I'm imagining when he learned that she ran away from her father, who tried to arrest her.

I'm imagining him taking her in, without question

I'm imagining when she mentions she's a drummer in her universe

I'm imagining the first time Hobie hears Gwen play, and he just smiles

I'm imagining Hobie calls her "my drummer" all the time, affectionately (this one's just canon)

I'm imagining how Spider-Gwen reminds Hobie of his universe's Gwen

[chitsangenthusiast]

red is to spider-man as pink is to miles, in that pink is the color of: self-expression, confidence, compassion. if you side with miles, if you want to support his growth, you're going to be in pink

that being said...a pink robe can be removed, and pink hairdye can be washed out

[robotpussy]

did they incorporate lace code into hobie brown's design????

maybe I'm over thinking but the yellow and blue shoelaces....

yellow stands for one being anti-racist and blue does signify that you've killed a police officer but this is what is making me think I'm overthinking.... would they put this into a spiderverse movie? I doubt it, I think I'm just excited for the character. but who knows

[whaliiwatching]

see what happens

[razmerry]

Fan of Superior Spider-Man, making predictions for Beyond the Spider-Verse: getting a lot of Superior Spider-Man vibes from this…

[plutonicbees]

my leading theory on them both existing is that bro also got bitten by a radioactive cat

[th3artk1dd0]

Hi I'm back with another yap abt how I think a spiderverse character is mischaracterized ><

Chat wdym sm1 thinks Hobie and Miles-42 smokes weed???? We BARELY know anything about Miles-42, and yall r like "mmm yeah I think he smokes weed and abusive n shit!!" Guys, what. I know they're a fictional character, but like- do yall think headcannoning this stuff is okay??? Also, wdym Pavi is a UWU silly boy who can't do anything on his own. How uwu!! Silly femboy (≧▽≦) like.. no, he's literally Spiderman. He isn't some 2yr who can't do anything without help.

Also Miguel Ohara, I hate the guy but WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN HES A 🍇-ist AND 🍇-ES GWEN????? I absolutely hate him but he took Gwen in to help her with her situation :(

Justice for Gwen guys, oh yeah, speaking abt Gwen wdym she's possessive n obsessive?

Also I noticed most of these hcs r with the black characters like 🤨🤨🤨 what's up w that

I'm sorry if my words offended you, I just really wanted to yap about this (　ＴДＴ)

[incognito-duo]

GUYSSSSSSS PLSSSSS BTSV CREW IF YOU WOULD SPARE ME A MORSEL A CRUMB-

Nah, cus there are TOO many ideas for Tiana Toomes NOT to be considered! Miles just... really needs some connections to his home universe - he needs friends, it's crazy how he only has Ganke. (Now, does Miles seem like someone who would only have 1 friend? No, not necessarily. His first scene has him interacting and being friendly with everyone, and yes ik now he's busy as Spiderman, and it's KINDA? implied that the reason there's a disconnect cus his new school is full of rich white people but like it isn't explored at all. So. I think it'd be more accurate if it were that Miles had friends but no one TRULY knows him and the only real, normal friend he has is Ganke. (Also GANKE IS MVP FR!!!))

Especially with the fact that in the start of ATSV Miles wants to explore the multiverse and feels disconnected from his home universe but by the end all he wants to do is return to it, something that the other characters - Miguel and Gwen - don't want. (Gwen doesn't want to return to her universe and Miguel tried to leave his for another.) The whole thing is that Miles kinda has a rebirthed connection and love for his universe (maybe that's just a take I only have idk I'm just yapping.) So I think you can reflect that if Miles is given more real connections to his universe aside from 3 people. Another thing that the movie should do is have Miles see Earth 42 and see that despite it being literally Gotham w/o Batman, Miles G is still heavily happy there. Maybe he sees Miles G have more than one friend, that he truly feels connected and integrated into his world, and sees that Aaron knows Miles G is the Prowler and that he doesn't need to necessarily hold his responsibility alone (contradicting what Gwen told him, which is not to tell his parents.) Moreso if, somehow, 42 Rio knows that Miles G is the Prowler. Which leads to another idea-

I get that Miles' whole thing is defying the odds and such, so it is pretty in line for him to have a love interest that's another Spiderperson from his universe (though that shouldn't automatically trump any 1610 universe love interests.) So another way you can introduce Tiana is maybe she can be Miles G's universe! He is implied to have been the Miles that was SUPPOSED to be Spiderman, so what if the whole thing is that Miles G's universe and life is more aligned with the comics? (This is already kinda set up with the fact he has the comic book middle name Gonzalo.)

That way, Margo and Miles - AHEM... Miles and his out-of-1610 love interest sideplot doesn't need to be nullified, but we can still see Tiana Toomes as a character and as a love interest. Don't tell me Starling and Prowler wouldn't go hard.

Also, in the end she doesn't even necessarily have to be a love interest (though it'd be so cute if she was.) She can be a friend for either Miles or Miles G. She's just a interesting and fun character ok and it'd be very cool to see her!!!

[clowningaroundmars]

so interestingly enough, some ppl have been pointing out that maybe miles42 is slightly older than 1610 miles? and i was like "yeah maybe" but looking at miles42's face more and more lately i'm... i'm starting to see it? :o

like if you just compare the jawlines and cheeks, it actually looks like 42 lost some more of the baby fat 1610 still has

and even without the Dramatic Ink Lines, 42 still looks like he's older than 1610 by at least a little! he has slightly more defined cheekbones imo

its kinda hard to tell with limited camera angles and weird lighting tho. there's also the possibility that bc 42 lives in a household that's clearly struggling financially, one could argue he just happens to be not as well fed as 1610

not only that but the different murals they have of aaron in 1610 and jeff in 42 are also completely different. i've heard ppl pointing out that jeff's mural looked more worn out but actually.... the one thing that strikes me is how simplistic jeff's mural is.

almost as if someone younger than 1610 made it.... someone who lost their father at a younger age and started growing out their hair to braid it around that same time. someone who developed an effective routine with their uncle also around that time, and who's had it down pat by the time 1610 appeared in their universe...

but what do yall think?

[messagesfromthefrog]

I have a theory regarding Spidersonas. Specifically after someone said that the desire of a spidersona is to replace Peter Parker, I found myself disagreeing with them, but wondering why. So I came up with a new theory. I believe that Spidersonas come not from the desire to replace, but rather the desire to help and to be a part of a community. We all see the tragedy that binds together the lives of Peter Parker, Miles Morales, Gwen Stacy, and all of the others, and it strikes a chord. We say to ourselves “if I was there, this wouldn’t have happened. If only I was a spider-hero too, I would’ve helped them. I could’ve stopped this tragedy.” And then beyond that we find others who share the same desire, and a community is born. And so we dream and desire, not desiring to be the only Spider-Man, but to fight in a community alongside him. We dream of an army of spiders. A collective of wall crawlers so great that none of us will ever have to suffer tragedy ever again. Because the others will be there to lend a hand.

[flowersfortheghost]

sometimes i just stare at the wall and overthink gwen and miles' kids. like their kids would have dna from 3 different dimensions and in atsv, miles glitched in 42 even though he had dna from 42. would charlotte and max glitch in 42? would they need a watch with them at all times? is one of the dimensions their dna is from a place they wont glitch? i need to stop zoning out about this stuff since i once spent like 10-15 minutes staring off into space figuring this out.

[glitchfang]

idk if anything, i dont think pmd2 hero “derailed” partner’s destiny and stole their life so much as they got partner to actually start the train in the first place because partner was afraid of crashing it

[ghostflowerhotpotch]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

This originally was going to be a reblog to another post, but it happened what it always happens: It got too long.

This is the post in question.

The response I wanted to talk about was that a lot of people were defending Peter's actions in the context that he has good intentions because he believes that this is the right thing to do. There was a mistake I didn't address in that initial post, so I will say the quiet part out loud for this post.

Despite being about Peter, I will talk a lot about Miguel, because Peter is doing what he is doing because he believes in Miguel, which is a problem.

(Disclaimer: I don't hate Miguel, I honestly think he is a great ambiguous character, and I am just going as hard as I do in this post because I'm very passionate about this subject not because I think Miguel should be hated. Fans may want to stay away just in case.)

Pls don't kill me.

This is false, and that's a problem.

Okay, so let's start with this: Miguel is wrong by his own standards. I had already talked about this in other small posts but let's dig deeper into it.

Did you catch the issue yet?

Here is the thing: How a canon event can happen if the person who caused it wasn't supposed to be there?

Miguel is blaming the hole on Miles, saying that it happened because it disrupted the canon event; yet what caused the canon event?

Spot. He did it.

However, Spot is not the arch-nemesis of Pavitr, Spot didn't even want to talk to Pavitr and was mostly ignoring anyone who wasn't Miles. And again, MIGUEL SAYS HOW SPOT SHOULDN'T have EXISTED TOO.

How come Captain Singh was supposed to die in that bridge, if this wasn't the canon event?

Because remember, Miguel says it needs to be a battle against an arch-nemesis too; meaning that if this needed to happen today, THE CANON EVENT WAS ALREADY DISRUPTED BECAUSE THE WRONG PERSON DID IT.

Now, I think the audience not catching this is pretty normal; I think it took me until like my fourth watch to notice that detail. In terms of writing, is supposed to be a small little hole when the next movie talks about what's going on.

(Because yes I am convinced this is the proof that Miguel is wrong about the canon and not just a mistake the writers didn't think of. Like the fact that in Into the Spider-verse Miles's spider glitches; and then in the next movie we realize it was from another dimension.)

However, is one thing the audience to not figured out this thing; another is that Miguel is doing what he is doing when this is the situation.

Let's mention other things Miguel got wrong, not because I want to dunk on Miguel, but because those mistakes had something in common that we need to address.

This is wrong, regardless of how you sliced it, this is wrong.

For starters, Miguel is blaming Miles for being bitten, which is...dumb. Like Miguel doesn't need the context that Miles didn't try to get bitten, it just happens; that's literally what happens to most Spiders, they just got bitten. Someone who objectively has learned about the story of multiple spiders in order to create an algorithm should have noticed that.

Second, this is stupid because now that we had established Miles was going to get stuck in this situation no matter what; let's go said this: The anomaly issues started before Miles was involved.

Miguel establishes how to travel between dimensions and anomalies in general fucks things up; and guess that: there was a spider from another dimension before Miles was involved. Actually, there are more!

Is hard to see, but as you can see, there are OTHER spiders! And considering 42 is the one that says decease yet not the rest, this means they are alive!

This fact I don't know if it will be canon, because it wasn't stated in the movies; but in the artbook is stated that Dr. Oct from 1610 stole John's designs to create the collider; Spot literally created Miles because the Spider was brought by his work.

Not only is Miguel blaming Miles for this mess, but if Miguel thought it was bad that a spider bit someone when they weren't from the same universe; well how good it is to have MULTIPLE being in the hands of one lunatic scientist that is the REAL reason this mess is happening?

Fact aside Miguel is hellbent on catching anomalies yet this slipped past his radar, let's remember that he should probably be aware of much of this.

Call me crazy but when you can get footage of all the spiders and what they are doing, and then you hear about the multiverse almost falling apart; wouldn't you try to look into EXACTLY what happened?

Speaking of exactly what happened-

Oh really? Because if you ask me.

None of these are the same.

Let me break it down.

Miguel's second universe: Things glitch briefly before they start crumbling and disappear entirely.

Pavtir's universe after the Spot: Hole starts sinking an entire building and it is led to believe more can be dragged.

Miles's universe in ITSV: Things glitch before making things from another universe take the place of the original thing.

None of these behave the same, which would be weird if these ones were all truly, made because the canon was disrupted. But what a coincidence that they start to make sense the second you put some context in two of these.

Pavitr's universe is being swallowed by a hole just after the guy who creates holes and wants to open some more became a multidimensional monster thanks to a big Collider who of course can magnify the Spot's effect.

And Miles universe has buildings and the like being replaced because they are trying to bring things from another universe.

So no, I don't believe Miguel's universe is falling apart because 'Canon.' I am sure there is more to it.

I am pretty sure I could find more things if I needed to, but I think this showcases my point. Miguel is wrong, on multiple levels; you can even see this in this post early on with how Miguel blames Gwen even when a perfectly available excuse was right there. Miguel is shown to be in the wrong constantly.

Here is the thing, I am not bringing all of this up because I want to trash Miguel (if I am honest considering how many of the things he does become retroactively worst when you think about it, this is pretty tame.) I am bringing this up because the information is wrong, and they are doing decisions on the basis of that.

Because Miguel doesn't know. None of them do.

They all believe in this.

I don't believe Miguel is a villain, I don't believe he is giving the wrong information because he wants to trick everyone into whatever he would want to do. There is no one in the organization that believes in this more than Miguel.

And that's the problem.

Seeing this movie the number of times I had and rewatching parts for certain things, one of the conclusions I got is that Miguel is hellbent that is his way or the highway on this one. Everybody else? I feel they are being strung along.

For example, Miguel believes Gwen and Miles shouldn't have been involved at all. Jess thought Gwen was okay but sees Miles as an issue. Peter thinks Miles is a fine, anomaly or not.

The cardinal Sin I didn't mention in my original post wasn't left out not because I knew that Miguel, Jess, and the others are just trying to avoid the multiverse from collapsing, and ergo deserve that defense. (Though to clarify, I do believe it is something to consider because is not the same as doing things for selfish reasons than for altruistic ones.)

It was left out because I firmly believe that making a mistake in good faith is wrong by default and doesn't need an explanation.

Also because for reasons I'm going to delve right now, I just can't be normal talking about this topic.

Look, without deviating too much and making this about myself, in real life, I am sick of "But they have good intentions!" Excuse. Is actually laughable how many things that are wrong with me started with good intentions.

But! That sob story only affects one person, right? And is different when it affects others!

My mom saw in me someone with potential, she saw someone smart, that may be able to achieve things, if I just push myself hard enough, I could get the best marks in the class. I just needed to apply myself.

This meant my mom ignored the difficulties I had, chalking them up as excuses, that I wasn't trying hard enough. She loved me so much that she didn't want to believe there was something wrong with me that could stifle my potential.

Without giving unnecessary details, what ended up happening is that I have mental scars that are not going away. Some of the things that happened left irreversible damage.

I think is not a surprise to hear that I am part of the LGTBQ+ Community, in more than just being trans. Do you guys want to know how many times in my life I had heard of "think of the children!" from parents that legitimately believe presenting content that isn't cishet is actually harmful?

I lost the count years ago.

"But that's bigotry! Is not the same if you are doing it for the actual good of the people!"

Sure, hey had you ever learned about the father of gynecology, J. Marion Sims? Without his contributions, we wouldn't have the knowledge we have today, he has been praised for years for his work especially since is an under-researched field.

Did I mention the guy had almost a messianic complex believing he had every right to do what he did, which was torture black women who were slaves?

"Oh but this is fiction!"

For those who don't know or don't remember, this is Tony Stark with Bruce Banner, talking about creating an AI that could help save humanity from the next catastrophe. Bruce was reticent, yet Tony wanted to do this as a response to the events in the first Avengers movie, because he wants to have something that can stop another float of aliens from invading the world.

This thing becomes Ultron, the supervillain of that movie and a villain that created a domino effect that catapulted multiple plot threads later on.

Now class, what do Tony Stark and Miguel O'Hara have in common?

They both have good intentions, and they are trying to save the world/multiverse, yet because they are still wrong, the consequences of it are still their fault.

Let's remember who are the ones paying over this.

Ah yes, basically everyone!

Miguel has noble intentions, he suffered a great tragedy that scarred him for life, and the burden of what he did has driven him to do whatever it takes to save the multiverse, so his mistakes can't happen again. He has been focusing on this entirely, refusing to focus on other things (including his mental health because he needs extensive therapy,) yet for some reason, call it hasty conclusions, call it hubris, I honestly don't know why; he ended up coming up with a flawed theory.

Because here is the thing, is fine for the audience to not catch the logical fallacy as a newcomer who is just new to all of this; yet imagine someone who created an entire theory that they are using as the baseline of rules in order to protect the entire multiverse, and yet somehow he doesn't catch a mistake that you can figure out if you say it slowly.

This is a problem because Miguel has the entire multiverse pending on a wrong theory, because if he focuses on keeping 'canon intact' instead of the real reason why stuff like this happens, it means resources, time and effort are poured into the wrong thing.

This is a problem because has a team that I believe is over a thousand people, including teens that honestly need more help than what this SpiderSociety is doing for them; being accomplices in reinforcing the suffering they had lived. Not to mention the moral dilemma everyone here is going to have.

Speaking of this, let's circle back to how this affects Peter too.

Because he is reinforcing this.

Yes, this is not his theory, yes, clearly how things are being run is not how he would do it. But he still lets this happen, EVERYONE is letting this happen.

This is the problem with Peter, Jess, and everyone else being strung along. Basically, everyone gave one look at Miguel, saw his theory, didn't think too hard about it, and went with it.

Let me remind you, Peter isn't stupid, he knows a few things, about the multiverse. Remember how in the first movie, he was the one who knew why he was glitching? Remember how he was planning to make a new goober himself, meaning he understands enough about it to know how to make it stop?

Here is my thing, "Good intentions" depend on how many people were harmed by those "good intentions." If I decide to bring a glass of water as a courtesy, and I drop the glass; I may have good intentions, but the glass is still going to be broken. However, this is just a glass, which makes it not that big of a deal.

Miguel, by deciding to take care of the multiverse and dictate how the interdimensional travel should be done and by who, is responsible for any mess his rushed conclusions had caused. And anyone who reinforces his ideology is an accomplice.

Now imagine I am a doctor, and I am convinced I found this miracle cure to cancer, and somehow I am able to bypass trials and legal bullshit and launch it into the market, and then is when we realize my cure's research was so poor it ends up making people actually get sicker.

In this scenario I rushed to get the cure to the public so people could be saved quicker, yet by doing so I ended up harming a bunch of people; which meant no good intentions should save me for a trial and judgment for the people who suffered.

Look, I am not a philosopher, and no one is asking me to give a class on Morals and Ethics. You are free to see the situation as you see fit.

The reason I decided to do this entire post, is because I as a person, can't and will not accept "Good Intentions" as an excuse.

I am not saying Miguel is as bad as Kingpin, of course. Again, I truly feel it for his character and his tragic nature; but Good intentions stop being an excuse and become an explanation the moment other people are affected. And at this point, that number is unmeasurable.

Miguel, Peter and Jess, and everyone else decided to preserve canon to save the universe, but if preserving a fake canon ends up making the lives of people worse if not contribute to letting people die; all that means is that the mistakes are marked in blood.

And the pain the people feel from those mistakes isn't erased by good intentions.

Again, sorry for coming way too strong in this one; this is just one of those topics that like the strike, I just can't contain how much it makes my blood boil.

[cupcakeinat0r]

Miguel, baby, I’m so srry, but that theory is literally backed up by a plastic fork with two missing teeth, he bout to be real embarrassed in btsv when Jefferson n Rio r left unbothered n without a scratch….

But it’s ok, I still love my boyfriend even if he’s a little stupid <3

[2dami2furious]

I get that people dislike the fandom characterization of miles g as some aggressive thug (I despise it) but sometimes I think people over-correct by saying that they are the EXACT same person. I’m sorry but no, not only does that not back up what kemp powers said about miles g being a bit “rougher around the edges” than our miles, It’s also really boring from a narrative standpoint.

What’s the point of creating the a version of your MC that came from radically different circumstances if nothing about them changes? It’s a nature vs nurture thing. Miles g is supposed to make you and Miles ask if his role as Spider-Man was destined, or if it was just some fluke that stopped him from turning out like his uncle.

[lunarrosette]

So I’ve rewatched spiderverse 3 times now and one big thing I noticed was the fact to captain canon events phrasing “A police captain that is close to a spider person is killed saving a child during a fight with a nemesis” this is a main thing that causes me to doubt the canon event idea because Spot is not Pavitr’s nemesis and it’s supposedly his canon event so just because miles is also in the fight shouldn’t mean anything and also it’s not during a fight it’s the aftermath idk these are just my thoughts and I haven’t seen anyone talk abt this specific phrasing