#clbg

[loganslowdown4]

Janus consistently being in partial shadows is my favourite recurring visual, I adore the symbolism and mood it creates for him 🖤💛🐍

He truly carries his dark side with him, I wonder if it will change one day? For now, I’m glad it keeps happening in every single episode he’s in lol

[dikdikpronouncedxylophone]

Thomas: Is it OK to lie to your partner if you're a mouse? Janus as Patton: ... I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[orbmanson7]

So I don't know why I'm thinking about CLBG at 4am but it resulted in thoughts on Roman angst and how they'll probably have to eventually resolve the absolute mess that's been made over the course of the series

The answers can be found in the episode CLBG.

In the episode, Thomas and Roman act out various scenes to help him lie but the part to focus on is the role assignment near the start of the scene.

Virgil and Logan are pushed to the back, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing because both of them (left brain bros) prefer to be out of the limelight anyway, merely providing assistance.

Then Roman says that he's "basically Orson Welles" to explain his roles are director, actor, and writer. He's then guilted into giving Patton the director role, and this is what is significant!

Because in this particular scenario? Patton doesn't know much of anything about lying, he doesn't care for lying on principle, so Roman taking the reins in this one would have made more sense, but Patton snatches that top role away, thanks to he (and Thomas) guilting Roman into handing it over. And then what does Patton do? Mostly sit in the audience and enjoy the show, occasionally calling out when Thomas does something wrong.

Now it's hard to fully analyze this analogy because we, the audience, know that Patton is actually Janus in disguise throughout most of the episode. But I think Janus playing into Patton's part of an overbearing morality was so well done that the others didn't notice until so much later on, which just goes to show how (mostly) accurately he was portrayed.

The reason this is Roman Angst™ is because Roman is taking on the spotlight with Thomas all on his own. Patton gets big credit as director, sure, but Patton isn't the one on stage. It's just Roman, creating and acting his heart out just for Thomas. He gives literally everything, his whole being, all to Thomas to be able to do this. And, from his perspective, he knows he can't actually do it alone, he needs Virgil handling the stressful stuff, battling away the stage fright and dealing with the inner machinations of handling lights, sound, props, standing on your mark, etc. These put Virgil in a more prominent position in order for Roman to be able to do his job(s) properly, which is concerning because that's a lot of work for Virgil to handle, too, especially as Literal Anxiety.

And then we have Logan, relegated to being stage manager/dramaturg. While this role suits him well, his job is quite literally to keep everyone on track and make sure they are following the script. If something goes wrong, it's meant to be his job to delegate another person to fix it quickly and efficiently. The only major problem shown in this scene, though, involves Virgil searching for a missing prop, which Roman was the one who demanded its necessity for the scene, not Logan (probably because it wasn't actually necessary). In essence, Logan doesn't really fulfill his stage manager duty during this scene, he almost entirely fills the role of a dramaturg. And while it's important and nice to have one, dramaturgs are often considered excessive in productions, only there to provide tidbits of information, should anyone choose to need it. Not a great sign for Logan's overall role in the series, that's all I'm saying.

Next, we're onto Patton as director. Like I mentioned before, he guilts Roman into giving him the role but then hardly used it to do much beyond criticizing Thomas, which is about 1:1 how it works for the rest of the series. Patton is very strict with Thomas but he also doesn't fully understand why, creating contradictions, even all the way back in CLBG, that are hard for Thomas to follow, leading to inevitable failure. And who takes on that failure? Mostly Thomas' ego - Roman.

Those failures are seen as fixable mistakes that Logan then attempts to remedy, by delegating or stepping in to assist, but because no one wants his help, he can only provide facts that the others rarely want to hear. This causes repeated failures because the problems aren't being resolved, which puts Virgil in a downward spiral, attempting to handle all the things going wrong, and feeling as though it's his own fault, when it's actually a culmination of factors that have led up to that point.

If Patton offered genuine direction (and maybe earned his role instead of demanding it) and explained what Roman and Thomas should try to do and not be so strict, constantly telling them what they do wrong instead of letting them feel out the space until they figure it out, then this would result in Roman's self-esteem improving phenomenally. He also should maybe relinquish a bit of that overwhelming control that he has, and allow not only Thomas but also the other sides to give their opinions more. Patton shouldn't be the only side with the final say, it should be more of a group effort, so he needs to learn to share and be more willing to listen to what others have to say.

Meanwhile, if Roman would allow others to have some input into his role of creating, acting, writing, etc. then he may feel less burdened and less helpless overall. He won't have to fully rely on everyone else (mainly Virgil) to help him complete his job, he could consult others and incorporate more ideas, flex his creativity without having to feel like it's an end-all be-all requirement. Additionally, this may improve his confidence, especially if he can earn praise from the others. He deserves appreciation for what he does for Thomas, and because of Thomas' choice in career, he is always going to have a very big part to play, but if he maybe shared that stage with a certain brother of his, he could better incorporate those new ideas and have a fellow creative to bounce his work off of, allowing him to meet new heights of creativity while also giving him a little less spotlight to stand under. He may not want that, since he enjoys his spotlight, but he genuinely needs at least a tiny bit less of that burden on himself. He needs to be able to take breaks, and if the others can play a more active role to better assist him, then he can finally do that.

Next, Logan needs more authority (and, really, more respect) than he currently has. His job is to keep them on schedule, but because of the chaos and unbalanced roles throughout, his job is nearly impossible to accomplish. He can tell them what to do, but he can't make them do it. If they listen to what he's saying and try to properly understand and incorporate what he's telling them, then things would absolutely run a lot smoother. Unfortunately, this would require Logan standing up for himself and maintaining a proper level of respect from Thomas and the other sides, which doesn't exist in the series at the moment.

But that's not the only problem. Logan is also not meant to have any spotlight, he's meant to delegate his tasks so that others can take up their roles when needed. Instead, because they are so busy, needed for other things, or just don't want to do it, Logan has been taking on these tasks himself instead of delegating, because it won't get done at all if he doesn't. So, he will need to stop micro-managing, giving up what little control he does have, but only if it is then properly replaced by the others listening when he speaks and taking on those tasks when assigned. If he gives up all control and the others don't take up the mantle to do their part of the job, the job will simply go unfinished and the chaos will become immensely worse. There's a lot of give and take needed for Logan's role to be successful, and right now, it will be a delicate operation to get it in working order.

And then there's Virgil, who is mostly left with all the operational tasks the right brain guys don't want to do, and since all the other parts of the production have already gone to hell, Virgil is in a constant state of stress, dealing with the aftermath. Virgil needs some order to be introduced, less chaos and mistakes, just so he can have a moment of reprieve to collect himself and then keep trekking on. He can fulfill this role, but it would probably be a lot easier if he wasn't required to do it alone. Having an extra hand or two to keep everything running smoothly would be benefit him greatly, and to not only keep an eye on how everything is running, recognizing if something has gone wrong (or how it might soon), but to help keep Thomas calm and less anxious - almost like someone who would put Thomas' priorities first, someone who cares about Thomas' self-preservation (and also maybe has extra arms), perhaps?

Additionally, Virgil needs to be willing to ask for help and be a little more forthcoming when he thinks something is wrong. He's gone into older habits more recently in the series, hiding away from Thomas instead of handling stressful situations, which is negatively impacting Thomas and the others in result. If the lighting guy were to make a mistake during a production and instead of fixing it and moving forward, he just disappeared where no one could find him, it wouldn't solve anything. The show would just be stuck until someone else tried to fix it or they found the lighting guy and tried to help him fix it, letting him know he can ask for help or rely on others to provide assistance when needed.

Virgil needs to be made aware that he has supports to lean on, but then he also needs to be willing to lean on them when the time comes.

This will help keep him (and Thomas) calmer and less stressed, while also feeling supported, and still fulfill the needed roles to keep things running smoothly.

Overall, the current production (aka Thomas' state of mind) is a torrent of chaos. If he's going to rely so much on his sides to help him out, he needs to properly listen to all of them, even the ones he would rather pretend didn't exist.

Tldr; in order for things to improve, Patton needs to be less strict, Roman needs to let others help him, Logan needs to be listened to, and Virgil needs to be made aware he is supported and then let others help him, too. Remus and Janus also need to be included in ways where they can help and not constantly be pushed away.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens, though.

[halfhissandwich]

More of little c!Thomas, ft Patton’s fatherly love

[boygirlctommy]

look how they massacred by babygirl... my snake boy.....

[transfemlogan]

its so INSANE to me that we can have A TWO PART EPISODE about virgil & his acceptance. have an entire arc where they show that virgil is not a bad side 4 his mistakes, & NOT have people apply that to ANY ONE ELSE. Have people watch that & STILL proceed 2 fucking attack janus as soon as he reveals himself for "being evil". STILL have people attack logan & roman . STILL have people attack patton in later episodes, simply because the other sides start to not like him or call him out on his mistakes . like HEAD IN HANDS.

[pupplaylogan]

Okay, but if the sides are invisible to other people, and they can't physically effect reality w/ other people cause they're imaginary, they can absolutely get lewd w/ Thomas while other people are there

Like Roman sucking his dick on date night, or Logan riding him in the library, or Patton kissing all over him at family gatherings-

The possibilities are endless

Patton sucking Thomas' neck while he's trying 2 talk 2 family is such a funny visual.

[dizzybevvie]

My biggest flaw is that I will pick up on hints about a plot twist and assume its bad writing

[i-will-physically-fight-you]

Hello! Sorry It been a hot minute since I read Gibbus and Cresent, can you explain the janus references? Hope you are having an amazing day

Oh you're completely fine! It's just one reference, and it is a bit of a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but it's this bolded line from a passage in Crescent Chapter 6:

Some conspiracy theorists theorized that there were more supernatural happenings than the general public was let on about. One theorist estimated that one in a hundred people could be a supernatural being hiding in plain sight. Alleged sources said that the government chose to hide this fact from the public to prevent mass panic.

“What they don’t know can’t hurt them.” One anonymous government agent stated in an interview.

So *jazz hands* surprise he's a government agent. What's his agenda? Who knows! Is he a human like Virgil? Who knows! Only I know :)

[intrulogical]

🍊: The Semantics of The Orange Side

Explaining his function, understanding his role in the narrative, and debunking/dissecting common notions about the Orange Side.

To be honest, this essay was inevitable. I've had thoughts about Orange brewing since 2020, but only recently has it developed into something more concrete. For the longest time, most meta surrounding Orange began with theories about his role as a side, then extended towards narrative and side mechanics later on. I, for one, have been a victim of this pattern. 

Then, I realized that asking who Orange is is a terrible opener for theories.

There are many important questions glossed over if we start that way. For example, what is Orange's role in the overarching theme of combating black-and-white thinking? What does it mean for Orange to be a side? Who is he in the context of the Dark Sides? There are many crucial things to consider when it comes to predicting who Orange is, and I feel like concrete theories can only be made if we can establish the semantics of how Orange works.

This essay definitely won't be perfect— this is literally my second draft— but I will try my best making it in a way that flows, somehow. Some sections will discuss general ideas I have, some will try to dissec popular preconceived notions to reorient our logic surrounding Orange. As always, I'm open to discussion! My words aren't gospel.

Important notes: All mentions of Thomas refer to him as a character. Moreover, I acknowledge that Remus is a flawed depiction of intrusive thoughts. Technically, he acts more of a mix of intrusive thoughts, forbidden creativity, and impulsive thoughts. Because of this, when I talk about Remus in the context of his role, please be assured that I am talking about all his functions at once, not just intrusive thoughts. 

(Full essay under the cut! I worked hard on this, so I'd definitely appreciate the read. <3)

i. Orange as a Dark Side

The ways fans have characterized and defined Orange has always seemed to be rooted in their perception of what being a “Dark” Side is. That is— they are edgy, and somewhat suppressed. They are more “morally questionable” compared to the rest. More fics would even go as far as depicting Orange as morally black, in that he has no role in the narrative other than being a stirring force of conflict; a villain that needs to be defeated.

It is unfortunate to see such a surface level perspective on who the “Dark” Sides are and what they mean as an oppositional force to the “Light” Sides.

My stance on the “Dark” and “Light” sides has always been the same (if you read my past essays, you'll know). Like what Logan said in CLBG, the labels are arbitrary because no side can be argued to be “good” or “bad”. Although, it would be a complete lie for me to say there's no distinction. Rather, Thomas’ black-and-white thinking literally created one. But the distinction does not lie within the sides’ morals, rather it lies in how big their influence is on Thomas. Because the “Light” Sides are welcomed, Thomas will entertain their contributions more than the sides Thomas considers as “bad” or “taboo”.

In my opinion, Orange being morally black makes no sense in a series that is a.) thematically focused on dismantling black-and-white thinking, and b.) a man vs. self conflict. The villain is the problem of Thomas not being able to cope with his mental struggles properly. It would be odd to blame a portion of his brain as the evil of all evils. Although, I'd like to clarify that while Orange most likely wouldn't be morally black, it wouldn't be a surprise to me if he is just as dubious and mischievous as the other “Dark” Sides. After all, if they are the most suppressed sides, they would have to stick to unconventional tactics (aka looking scary) to get Thomas’ attention.

I'll explain more later when I get into what I think Orange actually does as a side. For now, I want to focus on Orange in the context of the “Dark” Sides, because I genuinely think it's an overlooked idea! While nothing is explicitly confirmed, the “Dark” Sides are implied to know something the other characters and we, the audience, don't know about. 

Janus and Remus share this sense of meticulousness. They always feel like they're scheming something. Janus, for example, took his time from CLBG to SVS.R to successfully impart to Thomas that acting out of self-interest isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if your mental health is crumbling. Remus is even in on this plan, although his motivations for assisting Janus aren’t actually explicitly expressed yet. Even if Remus wanted to challenge Logan's self-restraint in WTIT to prove how much it was harming Thomas’ long-term mental health, we still don't know if Remus is doing it out of care for Thomas, or just… ‘cus. Either way, it's important to know that whatever Remus is doing seems to point to the same direction Janus is going, which is to break Thomas’ black-and-white thinking.

Assuming Orange is another “Dark” Side, it feels crucial to understand who Orange is in the context of this undisclosed plan. More than anything, because the “Dark” Sides want to be heard, it would make sense if they unionize to achieve that goal together. If they dismantle Thomas’ horrid perception of them, then all three of them would benefit. Thus, it would make no sense for Orange, if he were not morally black, to act solely out of individual interest. Yes, the “Dark” Sides seem to be introducing themselves one by one, but I feel like that's because a.) narratively, it's to pace, b.) it would scare Thomas for three strangers to pop up to him only for them to be shunned as a collective by the “Light” Sides, and c.) Janus and Remus seem to be performing specific roles in this overarching plan, so while they work separately, it's mostly for the same cause.

So, what does that mean, exactly? Like I said, the “Dark” Sides have an overall goal of being heard, strengthening Thomas’ mental wellbeing, and breaking his black-and-white thinking. If my theory is correct in assuming each “Dark” Side has a specific role for this plan, then pinpointing Janus and Remus’ roles may help us factor out Orange's role.

Here's what I deduced: Janus is there as some kind of soft launch, to set the principle. Janus mirrors Patton in that sense, although in the opposite direction. He breaks apart Thomas’ preconceived notions of the world and bandages it with better, more nuanced foundations. On the other hand, Remus somewhat acts like an alarm clock. While not all his contributions are worthwhile, his mere presence is a reminder that something has to be done. In the series, it's to cater to his deteriorating mental health. He checks if the principles Janus provides aren't being followed, and makes a good fucking clamor about it if it doesn't.

Orange, I'd argue, serves as a means for Thomas to externalize these principles. It would make sense that the last thing Thomas would need to do is to put everything into action. Janus points out how one can be disenfranchised, Remus points out when he is being disenfranchised, and Orange ensures Thomas can express his discomfort when he is disenfranchised. Makes sense, right?

Speaking of externalization.

ii. Personal and Narrative Purpose

If you’re a fan that pre-dates the release of WTIT, you're well-acquainted with the idea that Orange represents Rage or Wrath. This theory came about in cahoots with an old notion that each “Dark” Side needs to have a “Light” Side counterpart, especially if you share complementary colors. Thus, many people assumed that Orange is Logan’s foil. Consequently, most interpretations of Orange depict him as emotion-centric, specifically Rage, as that’s what most people assume is an oppositional force against logic. Moreover, because a portion of Logan’s arc revolves around accepting one’s emotions, it would make sense if Orange, as an emotion-centric side, would be part of that. We’ve gotten two hints from the series itself that confirms this: 1.) a fight sequence in SVS.R showing “Blinding Rage” as one of Thomas’ attacking options, and 2.) the infamous orange eyes in WTIT that appeared when both Thomas and Logan felt angry simultaneously. 

What’s funny is, if you really think about it, we literally only have two pieces of evidence that point to this widely accepted fan theory. Although, unlike the previous section, I’m more inclined to actually believe these theories because it… does make sense! Especially narrative-wise. At the moment, miscommunication amongst the sides are at an all-time high. This is mostly because each side refuses to express their thoughts, especially since they’re at the midst of a complete paradigm shift in terms of morality and principles. Everything’s just a little too fragile, and it does not help that Thomas’ mental health is also at the brink. After SVS.R, the sides have acknowledged Thomas is on edge, but they’re still doing nothing concrete to actually fix it.

WTIT is my favorite episode of the series because it encapsulates the entire conflict so well. While Logan isn’t perfect, much of the useful suggestions he provided since DWIT never last past the moment he suggested them. Did Thomas ever see a therapist? Not really. Did Thomas find someone to talk about his issues with? Doesn't seem like it. Is Thomas taking his time with his mental health recovery? Nope. More than anything, the “Light” Sides and Thomas are very reactionary towards their problems. It’s even worse when you consider that Thomas is opting to pursue a relationship in the middle of this mess. WTIT showing us Thomas getting irrationally angry at Nico for not replying to his texts is… an interesting Chekhov’s Gun for future episodes, lemme tell you that.

Now, why am I relaying all this? It’s mostly to prove that something, or someone, needs to snap. There are grievances between the sides and Thomas that they are consciously suppressing that need out. Roman, Logan, and Thomas, specifically, need some sort of outlet for their frustrations— a way to justify them, in a sense. Logan’s eyes glowing orange while he snapped at Remus speaks so loudly of what Orange may offer. Externalization, justice, “cathartic release,” as my friend Orb (@orbmanson7) put it. Presently, Orange as an externalizing force is needed so they can actually do something about this damn issue! 

And if not, I also see Orange’s role similarly to Remus’. As I’ve explained earlier, Remus’ presence acts as an alarm clock for Thomas to be aware of his deteriorating mental health. If Orange isn’t there to assist in an all-encompassing externalization of a side or Thomas’ deepest grievances, the mere presence of Orange as an emotional force can act as another kind of alarm clock. What I mean is, if we’re feeling mentally low, for example, we don’t need to express our grievances in the most eloquent way possible. Sometimes we just need to get angry. To cry, to shout nonsense. And that alone would be enough to prove that we need help. We need to do something about this. 

To summarize, I think most depictions connecting Orange to emotional externalization are not off. There’s a lot of objectivity surrounding it, both when it comes to the narrative and his semantics as a side. We need a driving force that can topple the sides and Thomas over the edge to fully process the depth of Thomas’ mental health issues. 

But, how does he, a supposedly, emotion-centric side, differ from Patton?

iii. Orange’s True Identity

Now that we laid our foundations, I think it would be a good time to entertain the question of: well, who is Orange?

Truth is, I have my own guess on what I believe Orange to be, but I cannot say my opinion is conclusive. My theories on Orange literally change every two months. So what I'll do, I suppose, is first, explain what makes a side a side. Then, I'll explain my own current predictions about Orange. Lastly, I'll list some popular fan theories I've heard about Orange and give you my thoughts.

a. What is a Side?

First— what constitutes a side? To me, there is no real basis in the conception of a side. Like what my friend Orb once explained to me, the interactions between sides are mental processes personified. This doesn't mean we should simply view the sides as metaphors, by the way. They're a hundred percent characters in their own right. But what I mean by “process personified” is that if we view one of Thomas' conflicts on its own— as in, without the sides— can we imagine the mental processes he's undergoing? To make it clearer, let's use an example. In WTIT, we see Remus and Logan battle out on who gets to influence Thomas more. If we saw this without the sides, we can think of it like— imagine you're having a bad mental health day. You wanted to do a list of chores but your mind is in the gutters right now. You feel guilty because of your demotivation. You try doing what you planned, but you still suck at it, and now you're spiraling, thinking about every insecurity you have, but you're also trying to combat that by rationalizing it.

I'm not gonna say that this definition solves who Orange truly is, but it does help when it comes to understanding how the sides work. Another characteristic of a side would be their multifacetedness. No side embodies one thing alone. They can have roles that are adjacent to each other, but not the same thing. For example, Roman embodies both the ego and creativity. Not the same thing, but it works in tandem in Thomas’ context. Same goes for Remus with intrusive thoughts and dark creativity. It is important to entertain the idea that Orange can encompass more than one role. 

The last thing to consider would be the technical difference between a “Light” Side and a “Dark” Side. The division was created for Thomas to compartmentalize and suppress sides of himself that his Catholic upbringing taught him to believe is bad. If we assume Orange is a “Dark” Side, he must be embodying something typically thought of as taboo. 

b. Who is Orange?

This brings us to our earlier question of, how does Patton differ from Orange if they both embody emotions? In DWIT, Logan confirms Remus was born from the categorization of certain thoughts as good or bad. I think it wouldn't be farfetched to suggest the same happened to Orange if he did embody emotions at a certain capacity. One of the biggest arguments I hear against this suggestion would be, if Patton already represents Thomas’ emotions, why do we need another side who does? The answer, again, lies in the themes of black-and-white thinking and compartmentalization. If Remus embodies the thought of committing a “sin”, Orange could possibly embody the actual emotions of wanting to do so. Anger is merely one possibility in Orange's roster of emotions. There are other emotions as well deemed “sinful” by Catholicism— pride, jealousy, hatred, greed, grief, etc. It would make sense that Patton would try omitting these out of himself when he was younger because he viewed them lowly.

So, what is my actual guess on who Orange is meant to embody? Well, I mean, I think my stance is pretty clear from the past 2500 words written literally before this. Simply put, if Remus is meant to embody forbidden thoughts, then Orange embodies forbidden emotions. Anger is merely one of many. He aids both Thomas and the other sides in externalizing strong emotions that seep past their efforts of suppression.

This is, of course, under the assumption that Orange is his own separate entity. I'm more inclined to believe this because Virgil confirms in CLBG that Janus has “Dark” Side friends (as in, plural). It also just feels more balanced this way if we consider the forbidden thoughts vis-a-vis forbidden emotions parallel to be true.

c. How could Logan be Orange?

But, of course, I've also considered the possibility of Logan being Orange. It's not my theory of choice but as someone who was balls deep in this theory a few months ago, there's definitely some merit to it. Here's the link to the post if you want to read my theory in full. It's pretty lengthy, but to summarize: This theory operates under the assumption that Thomas’ suppression of certain sides (ie. making them a “Dark” Side) makes them develop an additional role— the role Thomas perceives them as. 

To explain better, let's use Remus as an example. Logan explained that, originally, Remus separated from Roman as Dark Creativity. Because Thomas refuses to entertain any creative thought he deemed bad, any suggestion provided by Remus was immediately labeled as intrusive. Thus, he became intrusive thoughts via Thomas’ low perception of him. Same goes for Janus, but to a lesser degree. As a side, he mostly acts out of the interest of Thomas, somewhat like self-preservation. But, because Catholic upbringing teaches that selfishness equates to evil, Thomas perceives Janus’ role of keeping things hidden as deceitful.

Thus, if Logan is Orange, then that means Logan’s role as logic is warping due to Thomas’ low perception of him. It’s no secret that Thomas views Logan as a “strict” side. In this scenario, I wouldn’t exactly say his additional role has something to do with externalization. Moreso, it has to do something with assertion or strict discipline. Think of an authoritative figure, like a teacher. Usually, when an authoritative teacher isn’t being respected in a class, they resort to meaner tactics like passive aggression, manipulation, etc. to impose their power. Logan doesn’t really transform into anything opposite to who he is as Logic. Rather, he has an additional role that coincides with Thomas’ perverted perception of logic. I’m not actually sure what this role is, but if I were to guess, it has something to do with restriction, discipline, or conformity. 

Narratively, Logan becoming a “Dark” Side makes sense when you realize that his entire character arc is about him losing his sense of self-assertion. I made an essay last year that explores this if you want something to read later. To explain, WDWGOOBITM establishes how it’s important for Thomas to balance his practicality (needs) and aspirational desires (wants) for him to function as a human being. At the same time, we get LNTAO where Logan realizes that he failed to contribute to the discussion as usefully as the other sides. This creates a scenario where Logan concedes a lot of the decision-making to Patton and Roman’s hands. The result: Logan’s presence is minimized. Even in the episodes where he “saves the day” (DWIT and the Frozen episode), Thomas refused to consider his suggestions until the latter halves of the episodes. WTIT emphasizes this even more when we see Thomas prioritize his date with Nico to keep himself happy instead of focusing on the chores he promised to do. Even if we don’t know if Roman had anything to do with this, it’s obvious Thomas is naturally more inclined to do things Patton and Roman would prefer than something Logan does.

Thus, it makes sense that Logan becomes a “Dark” Side. But, and this is an important but, I don’t really agree with depictions of Logan suspending his role as logic to become a “Dark” Side. Logic is such an integral part of who we are as people, that even if you’re an intuition-focused person, you’d still have logical facilities in your head that connect one thing to another. Basic knowledge and all that. I can only see Logan be a completely new role if someone takes his place as Logic. Personally, I don’t like that idea, but you can make your own takeaways on this.

How “Dark” Sides are conceived would still be a mystery. The closest we’ve gotten to an explanation is Remus’ origin story, where he and Roman originally started as one creativity until they separated. In this sense, becoming a “Dark” Side didn’t really uproot Remus’ original role. He just changed a little. I’d like to assume the same for Logan, because if he is literally born as Thomas’ Logic, then he as a “Dark” Side would still have similar roles, just with minor changes.

d. Other Theories

Now with the main theories out of the way, let me speedrun through other theories I’ve heard and give my thoughts on it:

Procrastination: I feel like this is too surface-level for a side. As in, hHow would Procrastination justify itself to Thomas as a side that wants to help? Yes, Procrastination would be a good foil to Thomas, but Thomas’ inability to work doesn’t stem from Procrastination. It stems from bad solutions to his mental health crisis. Anyway, too cheap.

ADHD: This feels like… it’s prone to problematic territory. For real, ADHD is so multifaceted in itself, and is literally a disability? I think it makes more sense to have ADHD traits sprinkled amongst the sides rather than one character representing it as a whole. To make it its own guy is like suggesting the other six sides are divorced from Thomas’ ADHD characteristics, which feels wrong to me.

Hatred and any other suggestion that relates to “taboo” emotions: See my argument on Orange encapsulating forbidden emotions as a whole instead of Rage/Wrath on its own.

Justice: I actually liked this idea and sort of incorporated it with my idea of Orange as a means of externalization! To enact justice means to externalize your deepest desires— cathartic release. 

Regret: See: the last two points, since it’s very similar.

Repression: Your heart’s in the right place, but most theories that subscribe to this literally just describe Janus. Keeping things secret because you think it’s unbeneficial? That’s one of Janus’ roles. 

Insecurity: That is literally Remus’ role. While intrusive thoughts shouldn’t be viewed as meritable, intrusive thoughts base itself on a person’s sensitivities and insecurities. I also have an essay detailing how Remus is incredibly perceptive about everyone’s insecurities here.

That's about all the other theories I can recall, but if anyone else has other suggestions, send it to my inbox and I'll give you my thoughts. 

Now that we understand Orange's fundamentals and who he is as a side, the question to ask next is what is he capable of as a side?

iv. Powers and Influences

Now we get to the part where I am! The most unsure about! As of the time I'm writing this, I literally just had a conversation with Orb trying to understand how Orange “possesses” Thomas and the sides, and nothing conclusive came out of it. Even if we are shown one instance of how Orange influences the others (ie. Logan's orange eyes), we actually do not know how that works at all. 

I suppose we can start by asking ourselves how Orange embodies forbidden emotions. I see his insistence for Thomas to perform a certain emotion similar to how Patton would do it. It's impulsive, reactionary. They undergo a situation, then they make Thomas feel an emotion they deem apt for that situation. The only reason Orange isn't utilized as much as Patton is because, of course, Patton is who Thomas is more familiar with. I'd also like to argue that the emotions Orange would possibly encapsulate aren't ones that are constantly expressed. Most of the time, we are in a state of happiness or contentment, emotions covered by Patton. If not, we experience sadness, another common emotion covered by Patton. I would imagine Orange's roster of emotions are only experienced rarely, or if put in a continuous dire situation. Immense anger, for example, would pop up if you feel continuously disenfranchised by something. See: Thomas’ mental health crisis.

Ergo, Orange allows Thomas to feel “taboo” emotions when the situation calls for it. Pretty straightforward. But we're not done yet, because we have to consider what it means that Orange also assists other sides in externalizing their own emotions. We can't use the same argument we gave to Thomas because the sides… aren't each others’ sides. They're Thomas’. If Orange assists in the externalization of the other sides’ repressed emotions, then it has to work differently.

A widely accepted theory or headcanon I see in the fandom is that Orange “possessed” Logan to make him get angry. Or, Logan made a deal with Orange, and now he has angry spurts he doesn't understand. While I appreciate the efforts to make juicy angst, I'm not fond of the idea that these theories basically imply that Logan's anger in WTIT was not his own. In reality, it was. Logan suppressed his frustrations about everyone ignoring his suggestions, and now he snaps. Making it seem like he can't achieve these emotions on his own volition implies he has no frustrations about his predicament to begin with.

The real question is, then, why did Logan's eyes glow orange if his emotions at that moment were genuine? Well, like other segments of this essay, it's hard for me to say something conclusively. We literally have nothing else to work on, guys, pardon me if I can't be a hundred percent certain on my assertions. But if I were to guess, I'm inclined to believe that Orange cannot make the sides feel emotions that they don't already have. Rather, he's responsible for enhancing it. In Logan's situation, for example, his frustration is completely his own. But when you submit to something like, let's say, blinding rage, sometimes you lose your sense of control and simply act. In this case, Orange possibly assists the flow of emotions the side in question would be experiencing.

I'll admit though, I literally have no clue how Orange does that, how he assists the other sides to feel their repressed emotions better. Again, we are working with practically nothing here. Although, one thing we can entertain is the idea that Orange has something to do with a side's state of being. Just like how Janus causes the sides to cover their mouths when expressing a lie, the sides’ eyes could possibly glow orange just because they're feeling an intense, “taboo” emotion. If you don't want to imagine Orange as its own side, you can also factor in the popular fan theory that Orange is simply a state of being the sides experience, no additional side required. Either way, while we cannot dive deep on the semantics of the glowy eyes thing, we can at least confirm there is a link between a side externalizing repressed or “taboo” emotions and Orange himself.

v. Relationships With The Sides (Especially Logan)

Another thing I wanted to discuss is the relationships Orange shares with the other sides. The most accepted depiction of Orange shows him distanced from the “Dark” Sides, while also having a crude fascination with Logan. We've discussed enough of how I view Orange in the context of the “Dark” Sides, so I'd like to focus more on what it means for Orange to assimilate with the “Light” Sides, especially Logan.

Because Logan's first to be seen with these orange eyes, many are quick to assume this is an isolated case. Fair enough— we don't have other examples to compare this with. At the same time, I think a lot of people aren't considering the idea that, if we go by the assumption that Orange is connected to states of being, then any other side can also experience the orange eyes. I won't even be surprised if it happens to Roman in this coming season finale.

But is the much entertained idea of Logan being specifically targeted by Orange unfounded? I would say no, not necessarily. The “Dark” Sides and Logan have always had an interesting relationship. Logan in particular is shown to be the side most unbothered their presence. Again, he's the side who argued that no side can actually be categorized as “good” or “bad”. He's the most sympathetic to the “Dark” Sides, but also… isn’t. 

There's an explainable contradiction here. Even if Logan is nicer to the “Dark” Sides compared to the others, he also has the reputation of being able to easily and successfully shut down their suggestions. He completely opposed Janus’ side in SVS out of Thomas’ interest. He shut down Remus not once, but twice, to protect Thomas. But that's the thing— he does not shut down the “Dark” Sides’ contributions because he disagrees with them. Moreso, he does it because he thinks that's what Thomas’ wants. For example, he admitted in SVS that even if he wanted Thomas to attend the callback, he still preferred if Thomas attended the wedding instead because he thought that was what Thomas would have wanted.

And, well, we saw how Janus responded to Logan's decision— he was confused. It's like he had trust Logan would vouch for his side. Let's remember the main goal of the “Dark” Sides: to be respected, to break Thomas’ black-and-white thinking, and to get him out of his mental slump. This goal can only be achieved if they restore the balance of want and need lost partially due to Logan's diminishing self-assertion. They know Logan can do something if he lets himself loose. That's why Remus and Janus teased him in the Secret Santa gift exchange about wanting to express his frustrations. That's why, after Logan's outburst in WTIT, Remus says, “Gee, Logan, now you're speaking my language.” 

They want Logan in on their plan. For that to begin, they need to make Logan in tune with his own emotional wants and needs, to make him more assertive. Thus, Orange would have to step in. There is merit when fans joke about the “Dark” Sides wanting Logan to go apeshit— it's because it's true. It's because it benefits them.

I can only provide things to consider when it comes to the other sides:

With Patton, think of the point I made earlier about Orange being “bad” emotions divorced from Patton, in a similar way Remus and Roman were created. The main difference between them would be that Patton has more faculty over principles, since Janus has that covered for the “Dark” Sides. While Patton, influenced by Catholic morality, thinks emotions and morals are intertwined, it would make sense for the more cynical sides to view them as separate.

Roman, as aforementioned, may also be susceptible to Orange's influence as the other side tends to hide his emotions from the others. With how the narrative is building up, I won't be surprised if Roman's frustrations with the whole debacle about morals heightens in the finale, especially if something Interesting happens between Thomas and Nico. You can't use Nico as a distraction forever, Thomas. Remember Thomas’ anger at Nico not responding to his messages, remember Chekhov's Gun.

Virgil is an interesting case because he would be more familiar with Orange compared to the others. That begs the question of, is he aware of the “Dark” Sides current goals and plans? My idea is, yes, but only to a certain extent. This can go down many paths. There's the possibility that Virgil was the first part of the plan, but accidentally grew closer with the “Light” Sides before he fully completed it. This explains why he hasn't disclosed the plans to the others, especially since it may incriminate him as someone who was part of that plan. There's the possibility that he knows nothing of the plan, but is familiar with the “Dark” Sides’ antics. Thus, he can't do much but stay suspicious of the sides. Either way, we still don't know enough to conclude how much Virgil knows, but I doubt he would get along with Orange.

I pondered about Janus a little because, if Orange is meant to embody externalization in some form, what does that mean for him, the embodiment of self-preservation and secrecy? I don't have the answer, but while we know the “Dark” Sides have to work with each other, we don't actually know how close Janus and Remus genuinely are with Orange. To be fair, Janus and Remus are complete opposites and they get along fine. I'd definitely prefer it if all of the “Dark” Sides were actually close because it creates such a perfect juxtaposition to the “Light” Sides’ crumbling family. 

I also thought Orange and Remus would make interesting parallels as two forbidden versions of feeling and thinking respectfully. Like I said earlier, Remus can only suggest, but he never actually embodies the emotions of wanting to do taboo things. Orange, however, could. No other points except for the ones I mentioned about the “Dark” Sides in the previous bullet.

vi. Long-Term Presence

Originally, this essay would end here and already be posted. I even went through at least half of it for beta reading. Then, Orb started a discussion where they asked what I thought Orange's purpose was, especially since most theories (even the one you're reading right now) are more centered on Orange in the context of the current conflict. There was actually a part I wanted to write during the second segment where I disclosed what I thought Orange would contribute in the grander scheme of things, but I omitted it because it felt too out of place.

I replied to Orb what I was going to write; I thought that Orange was going to be the final push for Thomas to go to therapy, and make Thomas stand his ground more instead of asking the sides for advice every time he has an issue. I've always thought this, especially therapy, was one of the ways the series would end as a whole, because it means Thomas would stop talking to his sides. Or at least, in the way we see him do it in the show. That sounds a bit cynical, I know. Why would I suggest that Sanders Sides end by Thomas cutting ties with the sides?

Well, I'm not. Not entirely. I'm not advocating Thomas does. What I mean is, an underlying conflict to the current conflicts we have now is how Thomas internalizes his problems. This is literally how the series functions. Thomas has a problem, then consults himself about it via the sides. Even c!Joan mentions it in CLBG. This issue of the problem aversion Thomas has would be fine in the former parts of the series, as the things he consulted the sides about were small. But as the series progresses, we're facing issues that call for an entire paradigm shift in morality. Of Thomas putting himself and his friends in the infamous Trolley Problem. Of Thomas facing horrible intrusive thoughts he opts to combat alone.

I once called Sanders Sides a psychological horror because we see how a normal dude's mental health crumbles as he deals with life-changing situations alone. To find a solution for this main, underlying conflict means the show has to end— internalization IS the series’ foundation!

And so Orb suggested the most batshit idea— what if Orange was Thomas’ foil? Not in a sense that confirms the Opposite Sides theory. Rather, Orange, if his role is externalization, is literally the antithesis of how the sides work. As Orb put it, Orange is there to “completely wreck the format”, making Thomas realize that consulting the sides for help has its limits. He has to literally go out and touch grass, talk to his friends about his moral dilemmas, consult a damn therapist. That is what I think Orange's true purpose as a side is.

vii. Closing Statements

In the end, I can't say that everything I've stated in this essay is pure fact, but this is the most educated guess I can give considering what we're given and what we can expect to happen in canon. While most theories I've seen easily pinpoint different issues the sides and Thomas are facing in the series, these theories would then guess that Orange would be the cause of these issues. That's where theories like Procrastination, Repression, Regret, etc. come from. More than anything, I want you to see that Orange acts in response to these issues rather than in tandem with it. 

The best advice I can give you when theorizing about Orange is: ask yourself what needs to be seen in the series. Remember, Sanders Sides is a narrative. Episodes will continue to happen past Orange's inevitable reveal. Think of Orange in this context, as his own character with motivations and wants for Thomas. Only then you can make educated guesses about him.

Anyway, thank you for reading my incredibly extensive essay on Orange! Again, my words are not gospel, so if you want to discuss anything further, add onto this post or send me an ask! Please read this post though before you send me anything. And If you enjoyed this, PLEASE reblog, I'd definitely appreciate it! If you want to read more stuff from me, here's a carrd masterlist of Sanders Sides meta I've done. Happy reading!

[loganslowdown4]

I wrote this old theory back in August 2020 after Redux came out. At the time I was collecting my thoughts of what was being shown to us and coming to some conclusions on what might be foreshadowing for future episodes.

Give it a little read and let me know what you think

CW: Unsympathetic Janus (I’m not very nice to him in this theory, just a heads up) my reasoning is that I still think Thomas sees him as a cunning ‘villain’ type because of his ‘black and white’ thinking. There is still a lot unresolved with Janus and I know he’s manipulating the Core 4 but to what end we still don’t know…

[dikdikpronouncedxylophone]

Me: Yeah, Janus has been part of the series for a while, I’m pretty used to him. (rewatching CLBG) “Patton”: Wow, I'm so proud of you Thomas. You're so mature. Me: :O

[let-roman-bite-someone]

so with the dead grandma and dead hamster instances in CLBG, i think it's obvious that janus enjoys dark humor

so my headcanon is that remus tries to come up with the goriest, darkest, most existential jokes to impress janus and jan just cracks up at every single one

[beauty-and-passion]

Selfishness v. Selflessness: Deceit’s reasons

And then, we finally reached the last episode of Sanders Sides.

Or what was the last official episode, until recently Mr. Sanders finally realized that hey, the Asides are following the main plot, maybe it’s time to consider them official episodes and not Asides.

And so, he changed the titles. If you check FWSA and DWIT now, you will find that their names are not followed by the title “Sanders Asides” anymore, but “Sanders Sides”.

While the infamous plushie episode which angered everyone because it was nothing more than an ad, magically became and Aside episode:

What can I say? Better late than ever, Mr. Sanders. This wouldn’t have happened at all if you planned everything from the start, you know that, right?

Oh, and in case you haven’t noticed: maybe you should also take FWSA and DWIT away from the Sanders Asides playlist. You know, just to keep it organized.

But let’s come back to Selfishness v. Selflessness: this was the first episode I ever wrote about - even if at the time it wasn’t a full analysis, but rather just some random, scattered thoughts. And they weren’t enough, because there is still a lot of stuff to talk about! Hence why, this post was needed.

This post will clarify a couple things I previously talked about, starting from the whole Wroammin thing which (sadly) turned out to be wrong. It can even be considered part of a triptych: THIS is the first part, THIS is the second one and the post you’re reading is the third and final part. Hope you will enjoy it and, as always, if you have anything else to add feel free to do it.

_______________________________

Why did Deceit appear?

[Logan]: -pops up- Eh... Speaking for someone is a disagreeable practice, Patton. If Thomas would rather go to the wedding, then I, the brilliant Logan, think we should hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Thomas, the floor is yours. Wedding or callback?

My gosh, this man isn’t even trying. First, he drops a character lie (“I, the brilliant Logan”) which is the exact same kind of lie he used the first time. Then he uses two idioms in a row. And scolds Patton in the meantime (“Speaking for someone is a disagreeable practice, Patton”).

I suppose he just wanted to appear, but he couldn’t do it without being ✨ dramatique ✨

But now your question could be: why did he appear? Well, as I anticipated in the analysis of CLBG, Mr. Sanders explained in a tweet that Character!Thomas’ relationship with Lee and Mary Lee is as strong as the one with Joan. Once again, a very strong relationship is at risk. And, this time, there’s also an event that might bring a major change in Thomas’ life. Everything basically requested Deceit’s presence.

_______________________________

The dark sides are all anime tsundere girls

[Deceit]: Virgil's very right. You can't trust me! It's not like I'm trying to look out for you or anything.

[Anxiety]: He thinks he’s so great. Well, he is not! Look, I’m just trying to look out for him. (Taking on ANXIETY)

Okay, jeez, fine, you definitely don’t know each other and you’re definitely not father and son. That’s all a huge coincidence, I surely believe that.

Now I can’t wait to see Orange saying: “it’s not like I’m looking out for you, baka!” to Thomas, then I can close everything and disappear forever 😂

_______________________________

“He's against Nazis”

[Thomas]: ... Alright, he can stay. [Patton]: Hm? [Roman]: -incredulous laughter- Ah, wait, seriously? [Thomas]: Sounds like he's against Nazis, so... Why not hear him out? You know? [Virgil]: That... cannot be where the bar is!

I just love this part too much and it cracks me up everything. Remember, kids: you can be a snek, but if you’re against nazis, then everything is okay. I can’t wait for the moment Thomas will try to send Remus and Orange away, only for them to reply that, hey, they’re against Nazis too, so they deserve to stay! And Thomas will let them stay.

And then we will reach the lowest bar in the world and everything will be perfect.

_______________________________

“Social engagement”

[Deceit]: Well, the bar for skipping an important opportunity should be higher than a... social engagement. [Patton]: Come on, a wedding is more than just a social engagement! [Virgil]: He knows that.

Of course he knows that, he bears the name of a god who presides over weddings. Which yes, it’s hilarious and I love it.

_______________________________

Same area of expertise

[Patton]: What is this wacky talk? I- You don't mean any of this. I'm your morality, I wouldn't be here if you did! [Thomas]: Right, right. Yeah, you're right. I- I don't mean that. [Patton]: And Roman, I thought you fought for honor! Why are you pushing Thomas to be dishonest? 

Deceit knows what Thomas truly wants and it’s to go to the wedding. However, two sentences from Patton were enough to make him understand that:

Patton is the one who is truly in charge

Patton’s ideas are strong enough to influence Thomas

Thomas could change his mind because of them

Roman desperately wants to go to the wedding

Roman could change his mind because of Patton

And so, Deceit intervenes and makes Patton aware of something: sure his presence means Thomas still thinks about his morals… but he’s not the only one here:

[Deceit]: Do you know who else is here? Me! So perhaps, Thomas... isn't so innocent. [Patton]: Well... Nobody's perfect... Except for Thomas! He loves his friends! [Deceit]: You can defend him all you like... But you can't change the facts. Is Thomas an innocent little lamb? Let's let them be the judge of that.

And with this, Deceit:

proved he’s Thomas’ Side and not a random guy. He is a Side, just like all of them and he won’t go anywhere.

brought up the problem that will be solved in POF - i.e. Patton’s view of Thomas as a perfect, innocent boy.

moved the entire problem to a higher, moral level. This isn’t just a “choosing wedding or callback” problem anymore: this is Deceit’s way to prove Thomas’ fallibility and humanity.

And he wants to prove it to Patton. And if Thomas is confused about all of this, Patton is not:

[Thomas]: Um, I'm a little confused as to what this is all about. [Patton]: Basically, Deceit is trying to prove that you care more about yourself than your friends, but don't worry, kiddo, we'll show him.

Again: the supposedly stupid guy immediately understood what Deceit was trying to prove and followed him in his reasoning. Because, in case it wasn’t clear enough, these two work in the same area of expertise.

And if you need another confirmation that these two are a lot more similar than it seems:

[Deceit]: He's clearly manipulating the witness into doing what he thinks is best. Wait a minute. Who was it that was called a Scooby-Doo villain for doing the exact same thing? Oh, yeah! It was me... disguised as Patton. 

So not only Deceit confirmed Patton isn’t perfect, but they are similar enough, he can do what Patton does and there would be no difference.

These two work in the same field and they’ve been hinting it here all the time, before clearly stating it in POF.

_______________________________

Multiple arms

I forgot about this detail and thought that the multiple arms thing Remus brought up was a metaphor. Well… maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the noodle snek really has six arms.

This goddamn man, he really has one arm for each Side. And he probably uses them to smack the Sides in the head/stop them from doing something stupid. I love him.

_______________________________

An attempt at maturity

[Thomas]: And that's what you stand for. Truth. [Patton]: But I don't know what's true at this point. I just know what I want to be true. I want to believe you're an honest person... but... Deceit's right! He's here... and that means something. [Thomas]: Are you serious? I- I've been following your lead this whole time. I'm in the dark here, Patton, and I need something to light my way! [Patton]: I'm sorry... b-but... I don't know the way. [Thomas]: I don't want to be a bad person. [Patton]: Okay, then I'll do whatever I can to make sure you're not.

Do you know what is this? This is the moment that led to POF.

Patton was getting Deceit’s message. He was starting to understand Thomas isn’t perfect. He even admitted he didn’t know the answer.

But Thomas was too scared, too afraid of being seen as a bad person. And so, Patton had a choice: to side with Deceit, accept that his morals have been too extreme and guide Thomas by giving him a more mature, multifaceted understanding… or doing POF:

[Patton]: Like I told you before, sometimes... I don't know the way. But... When I told you that, you were so scared. I couldn't bear it. So I said to myself... "Alright, Patton. Thomas needs you. You're responsible for his morality. You can never not have an answer for him." And then I promised you I'd keep fighting. Unfortunately... I learned the hard way that... giving too simple of answers to complicated questions... can do more harm than good.

_______________________________

Virgil’s interrogation

[Deceit]: -chuckles- Very well. As Thomas' anxiety, do you have any relevant information about his norepinephrine levels in regards to these two conflicting commitments?

I’m pretty sure someone already said something about this hormone back when the episode came out, but I don’t remember - also, I found this very interesting paragraph from Wikipedia I would like to share:

“The general function of norepinephrine is to mobilize the brain and body for action. Norepinephrine release is lowest during sleep, rises during wakefulness, and reaches much higher levels during situations of stress or danger, in the so-called fight-or-flight response. In the brain, norepinephrine increases arousal and alertness, promotes vigilance, enhances formation and retrieval of memory, and focuses attention; it also increases restlessness and anxiety.”

As you can see, Virgil’s two main functions are both involved in this hormone. And norepinephrine has a spike during stressful situations - like, you know, choosing between a callback or a wedding.

But the mention of this particular hormone implies something else. Something very important, that will connect with the second part of this conversation.

Deceit mentioned an incredibly specific hormone and, by doing that, he proved how well he knows Virgil. He doesn’t know just his roles, but even the effects he has on a chemical level. It’s a bit like the difference between knowing your colleague from their job and knowing how many miles they can run on the weekends. It implies a much closer relationship.

Also, since he asked how high the levels of norepinephrine are, that means he knows Virgil is stressed. He knows this situation makes him more anxious and, with his questions, he wants to prove to Virgil (and to everyone else) that he is anxious because he knows what Thomas wants: to skip the wedding and go to the callback.

[Virgil]: I think it's ridiculous that anyone is entertaining any of this. Guys, he's a liar. You literally know him as Deceit. [Deceit]: Glass houses, Virgil. You yourself said that you are not a beacon of truth.

The famous “You literally know him as Deceit” line is a clear reply to Deceit’s question about norepinephrine. It’s Virgil’s way to say that yes, he knows him extremely well too. The others “know him as Deceit”, but he knows Deceit for who he is.

And, okay, now that’s probably me looking too much into things again, but the way Deceit replied by saying that he’s not always right and shaking his finger… it’s almost like a warning. A (maybe unconscious) way to say to Virgil to not reveal more, because he’s not always right.

And to further prove his point, he proceeds with a subtle threat:

[Deceit]: Oh, so you've never been reluctant to share anything with the group, then? [Virgil]: Don't. [Deceit]: What? I just meant your name. [Virgil]: Don't! [Deceit]: Maybe that's why it's so easy for you to recognize me for what I am. Like I said before... it takes a liar to know a liar.

And with that, Deceit proved to Virgil that:

He knows what he’s hiding from the group (i.e. that he was one of the Others)

He knows him extremely well, because he knows Virgil doesn’t want to talk about it yet

He has the upper hand, because if Virgil says something, he can immediately drop his secret and screw Virgil’s position in Thomas’ eyes.

_______________________________

An unexpected help

So, after threatening his son and showing how much of a villain Deceit can be, what does Patton do?

He pushes him to show his soft side, by forcing him to reveal his agenda.

[Patton]: You... always seem to have some... bigger plan. Some... agenda. [Deceit]: Doesn't everyone? [Patton]: Well, not everyone is so secretive... about theirs. [Deceit]: Everything has a purpose, and sometimes fulfilling your purpose requires keeping things close to the chest. [Patton]: Well, you're under oath, which I think means you gotta tell us. Why the courtroom scenario? Why pick a setting where... uh, the truth comes to hang out?

As soon as Patton had the chance to ask him a question, he immediately ignored the wedding/callback thing and went straight to the point. And it makes sense, because the point of their conversation is a bit more important than a single choice.

Patton wants to know what this Side is trying to do. And when Deceit brought the conversation to a higher level by talking about society, Patton brought him back to the main topic: Thomas. What does Deceit want to do with Thomas?

And by forcing him to be a little more honest, Patton helped him. He helped Deceit to drop some of his convoluted plans, to clearly say he cares about Thomas.

[Patton]: Okay... What does any of this have to do with Thomas? [Deceit]: I don't want Thomas to be disadvantaged in a world where you can die for not following the laws made in the name of a lie.

That’s why I always say Patton is incredibly mature. He’s working against Deceit, they are literally against each other in this courtroom scenario… and yet, he helped him. He gave him a chance to show his soft side, to prove he’s not a bad guy. And to tell how useful he can be! A bit like “an inner coach that acts with the intention of self-preservation”, as Patton said in CLBG.

_______________________________

Always and forever on Thomas' side

[Deceit]: Look, the point is, Thomas is an unconscious egoist and this dilemma is actually between something that serves him versus something else that serves him. Between looking and feeling like a good friend and a dream come true. If Thomas wanted to be seen as a good friend more than he wanted the role of a lifetime, well then I'm all for that. But I just don't buy it.

This part is extremely interesting, because Deceit said both choices are something Thomas wants. From one side, there’s personal gratification (Thomas wanting to be a good friend), from the other there’s personal fulfillment (Thomas doing something he loves). They are both selfish wants, in a way. So, if all Deceit cared about were selfish wants, he would have no problem with them. This whole courtroom scenario wouldn’t take place at all.

Be he has a problem because he wants what Thomas wants. And since Thomas is denying his want to do a different thing… well, that required Deceit’s intervention. As he said: if Thomas wanted to go to the wedding, he would’ve accepted that choice. He doesn’t care about Lee’s feelings, just like he didn’t care about Joan’s feelings in CLBG. The only feelings that matter for Deceit are Thomas’.

And only when Thomas finally admits his want, Deceit is satisfied.

[Thomas]: Fine! I want to go to the callback! I was planning on playing Word Crush on my phone during the wedding ceremony to keep my mind off the fact that I'm single. I don't want to go! I'm afraid to go. And on top of that, a dream come true fell into my lap scheduled on the same day. Anyone would want to go to the callback! So, yeah. I tried to force myself to forget about the wedding, and now I want to lie to my friends, so they don't hate me for not supporting them. I'm a liar. I'm a liar.

Deceit put on a whole courtroom, just to force Thomas to be more honest. This alone would be enough to prove he’s not just the embodiment of lies, but I suppose the correlation “snek = liar” was stronger than 200 proofs, so Roman did the wrong thing and made a choice no one wanted.

_______________________________

A mature Side

[Roman]: It's my sworn duty to help Thomas achieve his hopes and dreams. But Thomas wouldn't dream of attaining his hopes through deceitful means. [Deceit]: But that's not true! [Virgil]: And you're a beacon of truth? [Deceit]: Oh, did I say that? I missed the part where I said that.

Please let’s focus on Deceit’s words because they are very, very interesting.

1) Deceit openly admitted his means weren’t deceitful. Just like when he asked Thomas, during the courtroom if he was “the snake come to trick you into sinning, or have you had your mind made up since the moment you received the news about the callback?”. Deceit had no intention of deceiving Thomas, from the first moment he appeared.

2) Deceit is a very mature Side. I talked about it during my POF analysis part 3, when he openly recognized his own mistakes. Here he openly admits what Thomas is having trouble admitting: that he’s not perfect. He never said he was. He never pretended to carry the truth. Even if he’s 100% right here, he still admits he’s flawed. He and Patton are truly the most mature Sides here.

_______________________________

Caring and criminal

During the episode, he said that “fulfilling your purpose requires keeping things close to the chest”. And where did he keep his logo? On his chest. Even better, on his heart. What else does he have to do, to prove how deeply he loves and cares about Thomas? This man is the most caring Side.

[Deceit]: I'm not going anywhere. And there are smarter ways to get people to do what you want, anyway.

Uh, so “smarter ways to get people to do what you want” means “let’s release Remus”?

You know what? That really was a smarter way. With one decision, he introduced Remus, proved he’s harmless and even useful, showed Thomas that ignoring his needs leads to an increment of his intrusive thoughts and confirmed that he was right and Thomas should’ve listened to him.

This man is a criminal and I love him.

_______________________________

Why Logan can’t work in the moral area

[Logan]: It's still difficult to believe that my participation was as restricted as it was. It was Deceit's doing, I'm sure. I would have been a more than worthy foil. Unlike him, I'm skeptical about whether a society could function without some sort of system of laws by which all of its citizens abide.

Oh Logan, you huge nerd. I love you, but this is why you don’t work in Deceit’s and Patton’s same area of expertise.

Deceit’s whole monologue about society wasn’t practical, but moral. He didn’t say “we should surrender to anarchy”, nor presented a point about why rules are bad: he said society is a concept and we all collectively choose to believe this concept was true. He talked about how scary the concept of society is. And he clearly saw it on a moral level, not a practical one.

And yes, we can add this to the list of reasons why Logan was pushed in the back: just imagine if, instead of talking with Patton, the other moral side, who was incredibly quick to get his points and ask him about his agenda, we got Logan: a neutral Side, more interested to practical things than metaphorical/moral ones. Deceit would’ve spent most of the time rephrasing everything and the conversation would’ve been just about this choice, rather than a multilayered conversation about selfishness, selflessness, Thomas’ fallibility, and choices in general.

Deceit needed Patton as interlocutor and he needed to remove the cold, straight logic from a conversation that was mostly about morals and emotions: two areas Logan is not an expert about - as he will admit in POF.

[Logan]: Well, determining what feels right or wrong for you isn't really my area of expertise.

_______________________________

Truly taking care aka the wedding from Lee and Mary Lee’s perspective

[Patton]: Well, here's the thing, kiddo. People hurt all the time. By going to the wedding, you're making sure that two of your friends aren't hurt by the absence of someone they really care about.

Okay, time to put the most cynical part of me here.

Patton’s words are cute and nice and everything… but seriously. Come on.

Just imagine being the bride or the groom: you spent the previous days, weeks and months organizing for this event. Locations, entertainment, ceremony and everything. Then the day comes and you want to be 200% sure everything goes as smoothly as planned. You have people coming to ask you about this or that detail. You have to be sure your dress/make-up is okay, your best men/bridesmaids are okay, the photograph is here, the meal is good, the place is ready, the staff is preparared.

And, when it’s time, you have the ceremony, the people to greet, photos to take, meals, events, dances and so on.

Do you really, REALLY think that Lee and Mary Lee would be so devastated by Thomas’ absence? I’ve never been married, but I really doubt that one missing guest (and not a best man or a bridesmaid or another important guest: just a guest) would have made them feel so devastated. Weddings are huge, stressful events, a ton of things happen and the newlyweds barely have time to eat, let alone feel devastated by a missing guest.

And I would like to repeat that: a guest. Thomas didn’t play any important role. He wasn’t supposed to be Lee’s best man or anything else. He was just a guest.

Do you know what it would’ve happened, if Thomas skipped the wedding? That Lee and Mary Lee would’ve thought “Oh, Thomas didn’t come”, to completely forget about it two seconds later, because someone else would’ve called them to do something else.

And no, going anyway isn’t a question of empathy, but of naiveness - and egoism too. Thomas himself proved it in POF, when he showed his frustration, because he wanted a little more than a “hello”. He literally wanted them to throw him a party, just for coming! Who would ever think the newlyweds would give a damn about them, on such a huge day? No one, except for a very egoistical, naive person: egoistical enough to think they are the only one who matters, naive enough to think the bride and the groom have time to do a party for them. That’s childish, immature and very selfish, not empathetic.

Do you want to know what Character!Thomas could’ve done, if he wanted to show some empathy? Skip the wedding.

Think about it. What would’ve been better? Thomas moping around and not enjoying himself, thus ruining the party for everyone else… or Thomas not appearing at all and letting everyone enjoy the party? Which choice is the most empathetic? Call me a bad person, but I think the second one would’ve been a better way to care about other people’s feelings.

Also because Lee and Mary Lee noticed it:

[Lee]: Really? 'Cause you're sitting alone at the reception.

And, at least to me, that’s way worse than not attending it at all. Thomas was such a buzz kill, he ruined the party for the bridal couple too. That’s literally the most selfish, bad thing he could’ve done. And only because he didn’t want to listen to the snake boy.

This event deserved to leave strong consequences. And POF is proof of how huge the impact was on Thomas’ life and how deeply things will change from now on.

( Support me on Ko-fi )

_______________________________

TAGLIST:

@royalprinceroman @reesiereads @mudpuddlenl @allmycrushesaredead @aquatedia @whatishappeningrightnow  @effortiswhatmatters  @atlasistryingherbest @bella-in-a-bag  @doydoune @forever-third-wheeling @mishanthropist​ @payte​ @mcang3l  @geekyapollokid @hypnossanders​  @idontreallyknow24​  @imcrushedbyarainbowoffical​ @patton-cake​  @hereissananxiousmess​  @purplebronzeandblue​  @cynicalandsarcastic​  @empressserelene​  @dubstepbranch  @lost-in-thought-20​ @andtheyreonfire​

@riseofthewerewolf​ @frog-candy-bee @bosspotato01  @rosesandlove44​ @sololad​ @chewy-rubies @groaaaaan  @croftergamer​ @thedevilseyes​  @arya-skywalker​  @csi-baker-street-babes​ @queen-of-all-things-snuggly

@virgildarknessdementiaravenway​ @mishanthropist​  @dracayd-universe​  @unknown-artworks​   @lonelyfangirl453​  @starlightnyx​ @stubbornness-and-spite​ @averykedavra  @iloveeverytjing123 @bookedforevermore @joyrose-fandomer @anachronismes @mihaela-tbg @igonnatalknothing

@thatoneloudowl​  @grayson-22​  @softangryfuckingdepressed​ @theotherella  @boopypastaissalty @nevenastark @varthandiveturinn @floofyconfusednerd @nothing-worth-mentioning @mikalya12 @roses-bubbles @cuter-on-the-inside  @coldbookworm  @snixxxsmythe @alexowlndra  @fadingbagelbananapatrol  @our-bloody-mari666  @riverraysong @sanity-whosshe-neverheardofher  @charmingcritter  @analogical-mess @emphasis-on-the-oopsie @selfdestructivecat

@willpowerwisps @royalprinceroman @reesiereads @mudpuddlenl @shelby-711 @allmycrushesaredead @aquatedia @sweetkirbi @whatishappeningrightnow  @effortiswhatmatters  @atlasistryingherbest @bella-in-a-bag  @doydoune  @miasheer  @forever-third-wheeling @mishanthropist  @corndot @payte @mcang3l  @geekyapollokid  @kawaiipotatuh  @hypnossanders  @idontreallyknow24  @imcrushedbyarainbow  @simplyapannightmare  @patton-cake  @hereissananxiousmess  @purplebronzeandblue  @cynicalandsarcastic  @empressserelene  @dubstepbranch  @chara-073  @lost-in-thought-20  @arobohamster @book-limerence  @andtheyreonfire  @ironic-is-a-bastard

@riseofthewerewolf @frog-candy-bee @bosspotato01  @rosesandlove44 @methaley @sololad @firey-alex  @sashootkahoot​ @chewy-rubies @groaaaaan  @croftergamer​ @misty-the-girlflux-mess​  @thedevilseyes​  @arya-skywalker​  @csi-baker-street-babes​ @queen-of-all-things-snuggly

@virgildarknessdementiaravenway​ @mishanthropist​  @dracayd-universe​  @unknown-artworks​   @lonelyfangirl453​  @starlightnyx​ @alienvamp-hesitantflowerface​ @stubbornness-and-spite​  @alittletoo-extra​@averykedavra  @iloveeverytjing123 @bookedforevermore @joyrose-fandomer @anachronismes @the-cloud-14  @mihaela-tbg @igonnatalknothing

@thatoneloudowl​  @grayson-22​  @softangryfuckingdepressed​ @theotherella​  @boopypasta​@nevenastark​ @varthandi @floofyconfusednerd @nothing-worth-mentioning @mikalya12 @roses-bubbles @cuter-on-the-inside  @coldbookworm  @orchidstanslogan  @snixxxsmythe  @frog-candy-bee  @holleratyour-buoyancy @alexowlndra  @fadingbagelbananapatrol  @our-bloody-mari666  @cxsmospooks  @riverraysong @sanity-whosshe-neverheardofher  @charmingcritter  @analogical-mess @emphasis-on-the-oopsie @selfdestructivecat

[i-am-bitterly-jittery]

What if the thing Virgil’s mad at Janus for is just imitating Patton in CLBG?

Janus as Patton says “it’s me! Aren’t we friends?” but doesn’t clarify that he’s Patton, and Virgil seems to already know (or at least suspect) that he’s really Janus

So what if it’s Janus saying to Virgil as Janus “aren’t we friends”

Virgil says “I’m not so sure we are.” and that doesn’t seem like something he would say if he thought he was talking to Patton, but it’s also not as aggressive as he usually is when talking to Janus

Maybe that was Virgil’s breaking point in his relationship with Janus

[transfemlogan]

[ID: a screenshot of a youtube comment by daphne9193 that reads, "We love that deceit is still good enough to use Joan’s proper pronouns." / end ID]

THOMAS' TRANSPHOBIC SIDE: JANUS SANDERS