#demon of the underground || chara

[darkcandy-starfait]

ut month 2023 ❤ - 27. chara

I wonder how young chara was when they fell, so young that they somehow already acted humanity so much. Who hurt them so much?

I wonder how long chara lived with the dreemurrs. I think about how much chara loved them, so much so they would die for them. they believe they're a demon, because they're human. asriel acknowledges they may not have been the greatest, but he and their parents very clearly miss this child, who gave them and the whole underground hope.

I wonder if the statue in waterfall is a monument, to show the underground mourning the loss of their child.

chara is my favourite character in the game, and some of you may have noticed I've been showing glimpses of them in my previous ut month prompts! I'm using this prompt to show off my design of them!! they make me so emo...

info on UT month 2023 here!

* PROSHIPPERS DNI

[stainedglassthreads]

One thing I think I just realized is, in addition to being dissatisfied with how stories deal with Toriel’s grief compared to Asgore’s and Asriel’s, and how I don’t see many instances of Toriel and Asgore’s quarrel being addressed in a way that satisfied me... I don’t think I see that many AUs that quite get the responsibility Asgore feels... right.

Yes, I’ve seen several that portray his grief, depression, and how badly he doesn’t want to be in this position well, even if it’s disappointing how not everyone seems to be aware of what you learn about him in a Neutral run where you’ve previously killed Flowey. A lot of people can get aspects of his characterization very well, the broken man, the goofy dad, the intimidating monarch. But I think the reason I don’t see people capture the weight of his responsibility quite as well in fanfics and comics is... well. Oddly enough it’s in the way the monsters treat him.

It’s not just the fandom that has issues with idolizing or demonizing characters. It’s also the Kingdom of Monsters themselves--and they all idolize Asgore. Yes, he’s a very grounded and compassionate individual who invites his subjects to share all their problems with him, and who Papyrus insists will just let you pass through the Barrier. But he’s also a bit of the subject of a cult of personality for his subjects. When they say he’ll absorb seven souls and become a GOD, it’s not an expression of his arrogance, but rather their own adoration. While out-of-universe the Angel is generally agreed to be either Asriel or Chara(or us), in-universe I wouldn’t be surprised if Asgore was considered the Angel.

It’s not long now. King Asgore will let us go. King Asgore will give us hope. King Asgore will save us all.

Yes, individual monsters may want to collect a human soul for their own individual wants and desires. But it’s only the capture of a human soul, or using a single soul for their own benefit, that they really aspire to. (With the exception of Toriel, who wants no souls, and Flowey, who is Flowey.) Of those area bosses who earnestly try to take just one soul, Papyrus and Undyne both want to hand you over to Asgore, and Mettaton wants to protect humanity FROM Asgore. Literally everyone in the Underground seems to fully believe that Asgore will be the one taking all the Souls and fulfilling his promises, and all are content. (Again, barring Toriel, MTT, Flowey.) No one seems to ever doubt he’ll do as he says, even his ex-wife, and no one’s greedy to take the power for themselves or take the burden of being a savior for themself, except his kid who has both a God Complex and a Savior Complex.

With Chara, and with Asgore. They take a person and turn them into a representation of something More than any singular person could ever be. And then in the worst route Chara does it again, to themself. Asgore is freedom and salvation and retribution itself, and everyone including the woman who was once married to him agrees and reinforces the role. Chara is the feeling of a number going up, and the fandom agrees and reinforces the role.

And I dunno. There are fics and AUs where Asgore never lost his kids and always remained an affable, friendly guy. There are AUs where Asgore is the main antagonist and an awful villain with few redeeming qualities. There are fics and AUs where Asgore gets to recover in a post-pacifist setting. But I’m not sure any fics or AUs have ever quite captured how everyone else just talks about the guy, for me. Toriel is simply ‘intimidating’. But Asgore is a GOD.

[emoangel44]

giving chara demon symbolism and asriel angel symbolism not in a ‘chara is evil and asriel is good’ way but in a 'chara was so convinced the entirety of humanity including themself was rotten that they killed themself to enact retribution and once they were brought back and forced to join a violent crusade they ended up accepting it because thats just what demons like them were destined to do and asriel who was named after the angel of death who was named an anagram of serial murderer who was destined by the prophecy that brought hope to his people to make the underground go empty over and over whether for bad or for good' way

[karmaspidr]

Why the Player doesn't and SHOULDN'T exist in Undertale Yellow.

Figured that I should explain my take seeing as everyone who saw the meme (ON REDDIT) about it didn't like it. I'll be sharing my personal views about the 'Player', evidence for our existence within the game and why I don't buy it.

1. Neutral Flowey Dialogue: This is the only piece of evidence I've seen for 'Player's' existence in Undertale Yellow. If you battle Flowey 4+ times and have a FUN Value of 70+, he will talk about him and Clover being alone in his mind and a strange feeling he's been having since Clover showed up.

Focus on that last part. "Since Clover showed up." Clover first fell into the Underground hundreds of runs ago, runs that we don't get to play. If Flowey was talking about us, he would've said that he's been having this feeling since Clover fell into the Dark Ruins for the first time.

It's just as likely that the sight of another human dug up some remnants of Asriel from within Flowey but I don't have any evidence for that either. I honestly think this whole thing was just an Easter Egg of some kind. This alone isn't enough to prove to me that the Player is possessing Clover. Speaking of Clover.

2. Clover's Character: Unlike most of the human characters in this fandom, Clover has a clear personality throughout the game. He's kind, hates injustice, has a sense of humour, is honourable enough to spare Martlet TWICE in the Vengeance Route and is always ready to fight for what is right.

Any choices that the game gives us are all things Clover would reasonably do by himself. Half of the time we are given only one option.

3. The Narrative: Think back to the end of the True Pacifist Run. Clover spares Ceroba despite her pleas, then sacrifices himself for Monsterkind. Such a momentous moment that caused many of us to tear up.

Here's where the issue comes in. If the 'Player' exists, then Clover isn't some selfless hero who was able to befriend all these characters, peacefully resolve every conflict, and choose the needs of the many before himself. Some faceless entity using Clover as a meat suit did.

Same with Genocide. It's no longer a story of twisted Justice and the morality of Undertale. It's just us playing for another ending.

The same issues show up in the main game. The Player being canon strips our protagonists of any character, individuality and responsibility, the good and the bad.

At least in Deltarune, Kris' struggle for control is actually part of the story.

5. Player's Potential: The concept of the Player is interesting, don't get me wrong. But this fandom refuses to use it to its full potential. We've turned ourselves into another Chara. Some demonic entity with no real motivation forces our human characters to do bad things and bad things only.

Wouldn't be interesting if the Player was more like the Collector from The Owl House, or if the Player's relationship with the human characters.

In case you forgot, we didn't make Kris our vessel. We were forced to possess them after our perfectly good, empty vessel was thrown out.

[carlyraejepsans]

What's your interpretaion of Chara? I mean the one that we see at the end of the genocide run. Because I've seen some people now say that the one we see at the end of that route might be an entirely different species (as an actual demon) and I kind of want to hear your opinion on that

oh they're just human, but most importantly I'm of the very strong opinion that, fandom aside, you can't fully separate yourself from chara. they're the watsonian quantification of our role and influence within the game. undertale as a metanarrative lives in this precarious balance between worldbuilding that stands on its own, and its nature as a videogame, thus it being created to Be Played By Us. it makes some aspects of its world kinda wobbly. take the LOVE/EXP mechanic, for example. there's not really a reason why LV 20 should be the maximum LV you can reach, after all, there's still plenty more people we haven't killed. that is to say, no reason other than establishing when the genocide run is fully locked in. and the moment you try to apply that mechanic objectively to the rest of its world and its characters, it begins to flake apart. but i think chara is the most effective use of this kind of metanarrative in undertale.

there's this really weird moment at the end of the mother games where the game breaks the 4th wall and calls to the player directly. the games gather OUR name (and i mean our ours, the person playing the game at the moment) in... well, very silly ways. like a friend of one of the main characters calling for help on his school research about player names. it's not so much integrated into the plot, as a way to create a touching moment of connection directly between player and player characters (we pray for the safety of ness and his friends. lucas thanks us and says he's so happy to meet us in the endgame) that is not extended anywhere else in the game.

i didn't have the vocabulary for it before playing these games myself, but now i'm pretty much convinced that the fallen human/"chara" in UNDERTALE was a direct response to those moments in earthbound and mother 3. I don't need to recount those moments in the game where it becomes obvious that the intended way to name the fallen human is giving them your own name or nickname, but even if you don't do that, by the end of the game, you're meant to think of frisk as "chara" and "chara" as "your character". that's where the main plot twist of the story jumps off from.

and well... that IS what they are. "your character". the true character, in fact. so instead of the game breaking the 4th wall and calling to YOU, player, across the screen in a way that is alien and separate from the story, the game calls to YOU, THROUGH chara. through your character. remaining within the confines of its story and characters.

chara isn't us, WE are chara, and chara is the spirit of the first fallen human who died and was reawakened when frisk fell in the underground. when we play the game, we play AS "chara" controlling/guiding frisk through the underground (not gonna get into the chara/frisk dynamic here, that's a WHOLE 'nother can of worms).

however, there is an exception. because you see, although chara is meant to represent our actions ingame, we... aren't chara after all. we are real people playing a videogame. and because undertale is such a heavily meta game, it does, indeed, go there. acknowledging us as a separate entity, outside of this world, and more powerful than anything it has ever seen, and the way the game does that is through the genocide run.

it's not a coincidence that LOVEing up as a mechanic results in you "distancing yourself", as per sans' speech pre-judgement. if chara represents us in-game, then genocide is nothing but us pushing that link connecting us to its breaking point. because chara is who we are in the game, killing people is making THEM stronger (we can't get stronger ourselves, we're not fictional characters), but because EXP and LV make you distance from yourself, we are also making them independent. severing them from us and our will. it's kind of a negative parallel to our journey in pacifist, where chara is established as "not frisk" once and for all and THEY get to go on living their own life. hopefully. sorta.

so... yeah! chara is our true character in undertale and, aside from the genocide run, which tears the two of us apart, we have almost no reason to treat them as separate. and yes, that includes the violent acts. i am a narrachara/non-evil plotting mastermind chara believer through and true, but posing them as some hapless victim in our hands is... I'm sorry I can't take it seriously. it was a necessary overcorrection with the way they used to be treated by fanon back in the day, but it is an overcorrection nonetheless. YES, they might kill people. yes they might do that to their former family/friends, for very much the same reason asriel, as flowey, did. they were not the most adjusted person to begin with, but more importantly than that, the SOUL we see in undertale isn't theirs, it's FRISK'S. flowey says as much. when we defeat his omega form, the 6 SOULs disappear. when asriel died, the monsters started at 0 human SOULs, not 1 (ie: chara). chara is as soulless as asriel was when he was rein-cornaceaeted (lol) as flowey, with their ability to feel love and compassion stunted.

and with the added context of the SAVE powers removing consequences to their actions, and the repetitive nature of the game becoming tiring, well... we know what THAT did to flowey, right?

[askfallenroyalty]

With Chara's monster form now being a demon-goat mix, will their flower form look any different? Or will it remain the same?

a little different.

my logic here is:

flowey reset/reloaded too much to give themselves time to physically grow during their time underground. now that time has continued on in Fallen Royalty, Flowey has grown quite big.

Chara, in contrast, would 16 and hasn't hit their growth spurt yet. (as a flower. they've grown steadily in their monster form just fine)

their flower faces are actually their reanimated dust, which is why it has grown horns + fur. their monster bodies are just larger dust-shells that cover the flowers. this is also why Flowey needs glasses. it's still their biological monster form that creates their face.

the reason flowey's iconic =D face happens because they've subtly created that persona that closely resembles Chara's human face. (which is why Flowey has flat teeth). Chara, on the other hand, hasn't had time to form a Flowey-esc mask, and just shows their normal face.

[snowfoxchina]

Happy Father's Day!

*First left: Pleasant Goat and Big Big Wolf. Big Big Wolf is a good husband and father. He always has a tolerant attitude towards his wife Red Wolf. He also loves his son Xiao Huihui very much and is an inventor.

*Second from left: Bluey, Bandit, is an archaeologist who adores his wife Chilli and his daughters and does his best to keep up with Bluey and Bingo's games, whether that means dressing up, turning into a robot, or starting from a tickle Survive the crab attack.

*Third from left: Undertale, Asgore, is the ruler of the underground world, its inhabitants, and monsters. He is Toriel's ex-husband, Asriel Dreemurr's father, and Chara's adoptive father. is a kind, quiet but optimistic monster who loves gardening, goldenrod tea, and Toriel's butterscotch pie.

*Fourth from right: Hollow Knight, The Pale King, is a superior creature and the past king of Hallownest. In order to solve the infection, the Pale King plans to use the vessel seal, the offspring of the union of the Pale King and the White Lady.

*Third from right: Helluvu Boss, Blitz∅, from the Circle of Greed, is the adoptive father of the hellhound Loona, and is considered one of the most trustworthy and "go-to" assassins in Hell. He's a seemingly rude, conceited man, but is actually a self-doubting boss who seeks to prove that Imps are just as capable as other demons.

*Second from right: Helluva Boss, Stolas, is a Goetic Hell Prince who is Octavia's father and Stella's husband. The first impression is of a regal, ostentatious man, but also a flamboyant, dramatic, eccentric, often dazzling man, very lonely, but with a romantic and explicit side, and he is also very tender towards those he cares about. ,Educated.

*Right: Hazbin Hotel, Lucifer, Charlie Morningstar's father and Lilith's estranged husband. He is the ruler of all hell and one of the Seven Deadly Sins. He has a flamboyant and dramatic personality, switching between silly and exaggerated, clumsy and melancholic. He was an idealistic dreamer, but after being separated from Lilith, he fell into isolation and fell into depression.

[katapotato55]

Undertale analysis: Chara was a bad person but not because they were an "evil serial killer child" like the fandom portrays.

TW: mentions of mental illness, self harm, and suicide. SPOILER FOR UNDERTALE. yes this game is 8 years old and scarily popular, but its still worth playing! its 10 bucks on steam! get it! Post also contains stupid edits I made to ENHANCE your experience by at least 50% guaranteed or your money back (post cost $0)

first: some backstory. I played Undertale way back in like, 2016 when the game was still fresh yet gaining popularity quickly. The fandom soon after became criminally insane and went on a moral panic where people were harassed for "playing the game wrong". I remember stories of youtubers cancelling Undertale let's plays because they would kill a character and people would get upset. other than AUs, the biggest thing that stuck out to me was the strange obsession with claiming Chara is an evil demon child who is the root of all evil and eats puppies and enjoys drinking the blood of the innocent. and then counter-culture made it so that chara is actually innocent and that the PLAYER is the horrible evil monster eating puppies etc etc.

two extremes that i half-agree with, but mostly disagree with. There was an INSANE black and white mentality that flooded the Undertale space with no breathing room for mistakes. nowadays people have matured and the fandom calmed down, so now would be a great time to explain why i think Chara is a more complex character than people give them credit for. please don't hurt me.

1- Chara very much had mental health issues.

and not in the horror movie way where they were a caraaazay evil serial murderer

a huge misconception is that people assumed the garden tools in toriel's house being dulled was somehow "proof" that Chara was an evil serial murder or something.

though... I think people also forget Chara heavily hinted at struggling with serious depression and misanthropic tendencies.

Chara climbed the mountain to end their own life. the reason the garden tools were dulled wasn't because the Dreemurs were trying to protect other people from Chara, they were trying to protect Chara from themself. it baffles me how a lot of people didn't catch onto that. It could be that we were young teens and didn't know better... but i digress! "but kat? how is Chara a bad person ? are you saying people with depression are-" get that objectively wrong idea out of your head. Having a mental illness does not make you a bad person. If you struggle with suicidal thoughts please get help from loved ones and don't EVER think you are a bad person for struggling. no. chara is a bad person because...

2- Chara was a bitter misanthrope that didn't care about anyone else or their feelings.

there are several lines of dialogue that point to the fact Chara did not like humans. There is a high probability that Chara had a hard home life before falling to the underground and that is possibly why Chara was the way they were. I am not going to send you a million screenshots as to every single bit of evidence of this, I am not made of time and jpegs. (besides i spent the entire budget on photoshop edits) I am however, going to send you the most damning evidence on my side: the true lab tapes. In the pacifist run, you can visit the true lab and find Asgore and Toriel's old home videos. The tapes basically showcase Chara's plan to Asriel where they were to eat the butterscotch flowers, and then Asriel will absorb their soul when they died.

you can watch this youtube video on all of the true lab tapes. to recap the story, Chara died, Asriel absorbed the soul, took Chara's body to the human village and then the humans thought Asriel killed Chara. Asriel refused to fight, walked back to their home and died in the flowerbed. Later on if you talk to Asriel, He mentions he wasn't the one who went to the human village, but it was Chara that was controlling him. He refused to hurt the humans and fight back and essentially they were both taken down. so here are my thoughts (please remember this is my interpretation you are OK to disagree with me)

-Chara probably just used the freedom of the monsters as an excuse to off themselves, Then put that emotional responsibility on Asriel. -They then USED Asriel's body to try and enact revenge on the humans in their death as some kind of messed up murder-suicide but in the wrong order -This ends up Killing Asriel, then he later became a bitter misanthropic husk after being reincarnated by Flowey. Possibly due to the trauma. -This ends up putting the ENTIRE underground in a depressed state with no hope and causing a massive war with the humans -their adopted parents are now divorced due to this tragedy and both Toriel and Asgore started to have conflicting issues on the topic of humans -Asgore basically trapping everyone with him in his own grief because he didn't want to actually face what happened and played the long game collecting souls one by one. -Toriel struggling to move on and essentially trying to mother any human that falls down without facing her demons. -Litterally all of undertale happened. essentially Chara was not a bad person because they were a child version of Jason Voorhees Chara was a bad person because they manipulated their family into having emotional responsibility for their self-inflicted death and hatred of humanity. They made their issues everyone else's problem and didn't consider how their horrible actions would affect others. and in a way, that is one of the morals of Undertale If you don't care about others and how your actions will affect others, then you would be making the world a shitty place in the end. Lets get back to that thing I said earlier about fans harassing other players for little mistakes. killed Toriel on your first play through ? congratulations! you are a horrible irredeemable person who deserves to get death threats ! /s God forbid we have nuance and acknowledge that most players at this point feel BAD about what happened since this is their first play through! And that they CARE about what they did to their new friend! These kind of people ignore the fact that the issue with the genocide run wasn't just the deaths, but that the player didn't consider how the monsters felt after you just ripped away their happy ending. which is the mentality that both Chara and Flowey had.

here is a video i recommend. to quote this video about the sans fight: "They call out the player not for acting immorally but for acting with no moral guidance whatsoever. Flipping back and forth between good and evil for no real reason except that they want to see what happens. In the boss’s own words, committing genocide “because you think you can, and because you can, you have to.” " Chara offed themself and made Asriel emotionally responsible for Chara's fucked up revenge fantasy without considering others feelings The player restarted the timeline (more than likely the good ending) to kill everyone all for the reason of curiosity without considering others feelings. the reason why Chara goes after you at the end of the genocide run is because you basically VALIDATED the deep dark desires of a mentally damaged person and made them watch their loved ones get ritualistically murdered. meanwhile in the pacifist run (with no history of the genocide path on your file), you simply let Chara remain as they were when they passed away. You didn't validate their dark mentally unstable desires, you simply shown Chara that the world isn't a horrible place and that actually caring about other people leads to a better life. If you HAVE played genocide before the pacifist ending, then the lesson does not sit because you still basically led them down a dark path in the end. By caring about how others feel and the impact you leave on people, you are helping retain hope for a better future for everyone, and that is one of the many reasons why i love Undertale.

thank you for reading this massively long analysis, it took me a lot of time and effort to get this put together.

[the-irreverend]

In Defence of Growth Spurt

Well, this has been quite the last quarter of the year…

As if we Undertale fans haven’t already been spoiled enough, the beginning of October blessed us with the triumphant return of one of the most beloved UT comics in the fandom. From the cold ashes of a long hiatus, Growth Spurt rose like a glorious Phoenix, treating us to 29 panels of vibrant colour schemes, sharp writing, and one of the most unique art styles this godforsaken site has ever known, an art style that this godforsaken artist has taken a lot of inspiration from.

But as great as this page was, it did leave me a bit stunned as it unveiled a shocking twist…

...that Alphys is not a good person.

*GASPS SOMEWHAT SARCASTICALLY*

Pardon my hyperbole and lousy humour, but I knew from the moment I read this that some were going to discuss how Alphys is depicted in this page, and I understand why. 

I know how easy is to dismiss these kinds of viewpoints, especially since the excessive idolization and demonization of morally complex characters is a bit of a tradition here, and the Undertale fandom is no exception. Trust me, as a person who’s been part of the Chara fandom, I know from experience (who was also exceptionally well-written in this comic by the way). 

I’m very glad I didn't talk about this immediately because it’s given me some time to think about this scene and you’ll be relieved to hear that I no longer have an issue with this page. But I still understand why people would take issue with this. Because hey, at one point so did I.

But to say that everyone who has a differing opinion is just a salty Alphys stan is nothing short of tasteless. That’s why I am going to explain the best I could criticisms that someone might (and that I used to) have, before explaining why I decided to abandon said criticisms.

To give a brief recap, the Matainence/Defect Arc centres around Alphys and Asriel, along with Frisk and Undyne as they attempt to fix the CORE which has suffered from, would you believe it, a defect. In addition to repairing the CORE, Alphys must also repair her relationship with Asriel, as she’s haunted by the creation of Flowey, and dreading what might result from it.

Wholesome family-friendly entertainment, am I right?

Fast forward to where we are now, where we see the CORE starting to break down completely, along with Alphys’ and Asriel’s emotional state. While starting to doubt if the meltdown can be stopped, she argues with Asriel that it may be better to just give up on their efforts, and when she’s confronted with the possibility of fatalities resulting from that course of action she says this:

As I read this panel, which did give me a bit of a shock, these were my first impressions, which I must re-emphasize are impressions that I NO LONGER HAVE.

There’s a difference between saying “we can’t save them all.” and “it’s just a few deaths.” It’s the same reason people were left reeling when Superman asks his dad if he should’ve let the kids die to protect his secret identity, to which he replies "Maybe." I understand the feelings behind what’s being said, but to articulate said feelings like that wouldn't sit well with some people.

But the real reason I had doubts about this scene's direction was not that it highlighted a flaw in Alphys’ character but that it, as it seemed to me, potentially undid Alphys’ progress in overcoming those flaws. Let me better explain.

It should go without saying that Alphys isn’t the greatest person in Undertale. I mean, no one is. This has more to do with just her checkered past with Amalgamates as she does possess personal qualities that… aren’t the best. Just look at her true motivations for helping Frisk get through the underground.

But while she’s not the greatest person, she did become a better one by the end of the Pacifist Run. Yes, she didn’t exactly get a complete redemption arc, but she’s in a better position than she was now. She did find the courage to release the amalgamates and confess to her former king and queen about her role in creating them, which gave her the honour of becoming the former royal scientist. 

So for Alphys to be beside herself with regret about what she did to the Amalgamates AND Asriel only to later be seemingly unconcerned with the deaths of people (AS IF SHE WON'T REGRET IT LATER), while also reducing their demises to being “outliers” just didn’t click right with me… AT FIRST.

But eventually, after a little consideration, I eventually came to accept this scene, and realize that this panel in the Defect Arc is anything but a defect. All you have to do is look no further than to the panels that followed it.

You don’t need to express indignation about what she said because Asriel already did. Of course a well-deserved chastising should follow that line, but what makes Asriel’s lecture that much more impactful is not just because it’s just a well-deserved reprimand, but because of what it does for Asriel’s character development.

Keep in mind the previous page saw him asking Alphys not to call him by his title because he felt he didn’t do anything to deserve it. And yet one page later, he displays qualities that show that he does. But what makes this scene even more memorable for me is what came before the reprimand:

See? Right before he proceeds to humble the good doctor, he takes a moment to EMPATHIZE with Alphys plight and shows that he fully understands that this isn’t worth “taking at face value”. Though he still rakes her over the coals for her statement, he still takes a moment to show that he fully understands why she made it.

It’s while I was re-reading this scene that I realized something: if Asriel can learn to understand Alphys, then why the duck shouldn’t I?

This is what continues to draw me and many others back to Growth Spurt to this day. It’s more than just the comedic one-shots or sadistically revelling in Asriel’s teenage angst. 

The story didn't need grand clashes, shadowy conspiracies, or inter-dimensional antics (not that there’s anything wrong with that). It’s just the main cast learning to confront their past. It’s so simple, yet so impactful, just like the art style.

I’m not concerned about what Alphys is like here because I know where she’s going to end up. Just look at what happened with Toriel!

Remember this scene where she completely attempts to shut down Asriel as he attempts to get her to talk with Asgore? 

It’s not a good look for her if you just cherry-pick these panels, but look where this scene eventually led up to. Only perhaps my favourite story arc that I have ever seen out of any Undertale comic period, and one of my favourite comic scenes!

Seriously how can you not get teary-eyed looking at this?

I save the can't even-ing about this particular arc on another post, but for now, all I know after reading this comic is this: sometimes when a character’s progress takes a step back it’s because it’s about to take a bounding leap.

Because in the end, that’s what Growth Spurt is all about: GROWTH.

So don’t judge a book by its cover...

...and don’t judge a character arc before it’s finished.

Thank you for reading the incoherent nonsense I've typed here. I look forward to hearing your own insights.

Growth Spurt AU belongs to @potoobrigham // @potoo-reblogs

[rannnem]

dropping my utdr headcanon/theory right here right now

so we can all agree that the red soul isn't supposed to represent determination, right? its soul trait has not been stated. well, my proposal is that the red soul is the Holy soul trait.

my first piece of evidence: in undertale, the legend of deltarune is that an angel will descend from the surface and the underground will go empty. this is self explanatory, really; angels are holy. frisk and chara are holy.

secondly, in deltarune there are a bunch of links to the word holy. ch1 has a song called THE HOLY; from what we've learned about elemental pairs there is a holy element; and the monsters have a religion and a church which a future chapter may take place in. oh and toriel says hell /j

three: it's not a normal soul trait. we can infer that the six other souls are more common, and we've seen that the players soul can be turned those colours (except for orange and cyan, which are still battle mechanics). this would explain why "holy" doesn't fit the pattern of human souls representing personality traits. the only time we see red magic in undertale is frisk and charas soul as well as asgores trident. asgore is the king of monsters, and this may be a stretch but monarchs are considered to be religious figures because of divine right.

fourth, in deltarune, the soul is a connection between the player and gaster and chara, who all exist outside the game. holy beings exist outside of this world, and 'play god', as the player does in undertale and gaster and chara as well in deltarune.

finally: the pope has a copy of undertale. this isn't a piece of evidence I just think it's funny that holiness is connected so deeply to undertale that it extends to reality

so yeah I've had this headcanon in the back of my head for months, but never had the time to articulate it. that's my two cents on the red soul goodbye

ok this is an edit because I found more references to the red soul after a few replays of deltarune (I don't like reblogs because it means less people will see the additions and more will see the OG post):

• king literally calls the fountains "holy fountains" and we already know that the fountains and the soul are linked

• I don't know how I forgot to mention this but either kris or noelle is referred to as an angel by spamton (he didn't specify who he was talking to)

• the motif of apples

• the motif of the number 7

• spamton continually references heaven, God, and angels. he's implied to be connected to gaster who I've stated is comparable to a divine entity

• kris owning red horns similarly to a demon; they have been shown to reject the possibly holy soul like how demons are unholy

• monarchs being so important to both undertale and deltarunes stories, since the main final bosses in neutral and pacifist are all royalty. this ties into what I said about Asgore being somewhat holy because of divine right

• you only get this tidbit from one optional line of dialogue from father alvin but the lightners in hometown literally worship an angel??? like that's so important how did I miss that

• God is literally a character in undertale (the annoying dog) who resides in a room that you can only enter through perfection of the end credits. the credits are purgatory and if you're good then you can go to heaven where God resides. he also shows up in deltarune ch1 where he's programming the next chapter in the computer room, but I can't really find a religious parallel there

• king and queen worship(ped) the roaring knight, which is a parallel to worshipping fake idols

ok that's all I can remember off the top of my head but every minute my theory grows stronger

[misted-buttercup-enjoyer]

Noelle and Chara Parallels

TW: Abuse, manipulation, murder, genocide, bad romance.

Noelle and Chara are interesting characters in similar situations of being manipulated into mass murder / thinking murder is okay. Quite a chilling concept! here are a few subtle parallels between them, plus bonus sections that gets a bit more speculative. Let's get right into it.

1: Coming When Their Name Is Called

Chara states, after you do two genocide runs, that they are "the demon that comes when people call its name." That would suit their role in Undertale (endorsing the Narrachara theory) where they begin narrating for us shortly after we name the fallen human. And Noelle seems to come when she's called as well. In the Spamton Neo fight, we call for help from Ralsei and Susie, to no avail. (The game specifically says, "You called for help...but nobody came.") Then we whisper Noelle's name and Spamton is frozen by Noelle's Ice Shock.

Bonus: We don't see Noelle do this, just like how we don't see Chara come at the beginning of the game either. Interestingly, we're able to see Noelle as soon as we meet up with her and only at the end is she out of our vision. Meanwhile in Undertale, we don't see Chara at all until the end, when we finally meet them face to face. Additionally, we meet up with Noelle fairly soon after beginning the game, but she isn't there right away. Neither is Chara, who begins narrating for us only after the first Flowey fight.

2: Being Angels

It's no secret about Noelle that she's surrounded by angelic themes. Spamton calls her "angel," she states on the Ferris wheel that she'd like to chuck herself off the Ferris wheel and "grow angel wings and fly away," and her outfit in the Dark World resembles an angel. Many have suggested she will be the Angel whose Heaven we, according to Ralsei's prophecy, have to banish. Meanwhile, Chara was one of the candidates for the role of "Angel" in Undertale's prophecy. Since they came from the Surface, many monsters would probably have expected Chara to be the angel who would free them. The Underground, as a storyteller states, was full of hope. Of course Chara failed at freeing monsterkind, and the prophecy angel turned out to be either Asriel or Frisk, depending on who you ask, or maybe it's the both of them. (That's a topic for another post.)

Bonus: What's really, really interesting is that there is so much evidence that Noelle will be the Angel, which makes me wonder if she really will be the Angel, or if the game will pull a 1'80 and it'll be Kris or Susie or something. Or maybe the role of Angel will be shared between a couple people, like it may or may not have been in Undertale--again it's not entirely clear on who the Angel is in Undertale. If she doesn't turn out to the Angel after all, then it would line up really nicely with Chara being someone that everybody thought was the angel but turned out to not be.

3: Twisted Romance

This one is a bit more debatable based on how you interpret Chara's lines in Undertale.

In Deltarune, our language and actions suggest Noelle as a romantic partner. We buy her a ring and convince her to "get" a ring. We pressure her into riding the Ferris wheel with us. And when asked if she and Kris are friends, we refer to her as "something else." This adds a theme of twisted romance to an already horrifying dynamic.

A lot of people are just so freaked out by Chara's unnerving encounter to analyze the lines much, which is...definitely understandable to be honest. But you'll notice that Chara refers to us as their "partner," stating that you'll be together forever. Both Frisk (who we are/are possessing, which is, again, a subject for another post) and Chara are referred to with gender-neutral terms and pronouns. "Partner" is often used gender neutrally to describe a romantic partner. Chara also has pink cheeks, which could be interpreted as either blushing or just natural color to their cheeks. Frisk and Chara both also share a (potential, in Frisk's case) mother figure and father figure, plus they are literal children. If that's not twisted romance, I don't know what is.

4: Getting Stronger

Chara states that together, you eradicated the enemy and became strong. This is how they refer to killing monsters. Meanwhile, Noelle refers to freezing Darkners as "getting stronger." Even the narration of this game states "Noelle became stronger."

In conclusion, both Chara and Noelle are manipulated into thinking murder is okay, have links to angelicism, may or may not be in a bad romance with the player character, and view killing as gaining strength, by the time we're done with them. Some of these are a bit shaky, but I'd say at least the first one is pretty definite.

Or at least that's my undertake, reverse salutations and have a nice day.

P.S. this is my first ever theory/analysis post so try to be gentle in constructive criticism, thank you T-T

[makerofmadness]

Aight I'm back to post more

So this border is everything that matters

This part is... interesting.

I swear I like only see fanart of the bandage as a bandaid and never as a wrap. Guess that's wrong.

I posted about this before but: Toby Fox's own notes on determination

I find this part really interesting to think about with the narrator Chara theory and may post about this separately since so far no one has cared about like anything I've posted about this today but: Since the ruins dummy is the first encounterable enemy you can perform Check on, and the poem in the description is apparently "meaningless," imagine if it's that way because it's their first ever time giving check text and they're trying to think of something to say. So they just say the first poetic thing that comes to mind despite it not meaning anything. Idk, that's my headcanon now.

So the "distinct, non-licorice flavor" thing isn't meant to indicate a flavor preference on Frisk or the narrator's behalf, it's a joke on how polarizing of a flavor licorice itself is in the West, and was changed to peppermint for the localization since peppermint candy is more common in Japan and is also polarizing there. Huh.

Napstablook's name came before the character itself. And they weren't always intended to be a dj I guess.

Underground Salad Demon Association. Probably not real but sure I'll incorporate that into my headcanons.

[smellslikefeathers]

Am I wrong for thinking most Undertale fans actually DON'T realize what Chara represents?

That an alarming number of them think Chara is evil by default and the player isn't at all to blame for them turning into a demon in the Genocide route?

This was definitely true in the early days of the fandom at least. I'm pretty sure I was one of those people at one point, sadly. I do know there are STILL people who think that way. Not because of any failing on Toby Fox's part, but because people, especially younger people, are media illiterate. (My excuse is that I was also somewhat media illiterate, but I'm trying to get better.)

And those fans get mad at Toby for not releasing merchandise of Chara because of what their character represents in the game. Chara's personality and behavior is a direct result of the player's actions in-game. They are an extension of the player. But the fans who don't truly understand this see Chara not as themselves, but as a separate entity altogether that has nothing to do with them. And yet they blame their own actions on Chara.

Genocide Chara didn't make you kill all those monsters. That was you. Chara was just influenced to evil by YOU. Genocide Chara is a demon, while you are the angel of death in the prophecy. You showed them power, and it corrupted them.

Pacifist Chara, meanwhile, is a witty, charming, and precocious kid because you showed them that peace is, in fact, an option. That love is better than LOVE. And even if they're silent about everything Asriel says about them, it's safe to assume they come to understand how hurtful their past actions were. And they seem to be content to let Frisk - and you - go when everyone leaves the Underground.

Chara is like any other human child... a product of influence. Your influence in their case. Children are never inherently evil or hateful. That stuff is taught, always. Are there evil adults? Yes. But they didn't start out that way from birth. And all humans have the capacity to change and become better people. Granted, some of them don't want to because they care more about power and control. But not every human is a lost cause. Some just need some love, kindness, patience, friendship, and empathy.

Not sure how to end this one or where to go with it. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

[restricted-official]

Official PLAYER/Anemone Design + Lore!

The first character with a fully completed backstory! PLAYER is on the left, while Anemone is the human/disguise on the right. Just to be clear: This is not the player from UNDERPLAYER. To be clear, I will refer to Restricted’s player as “PLAYER”, and the one from UNDERLAYER as “Player”. However, this PLAYER is very similar to the Player from UNDERPLAYER.

They came from the same timeline: in fact, Player currently stuck during in Undertale is PLAYER’s twin. While they were back home, Player had vanished. The only thing they left behind was Undertale, up and running on a computer. So PLAYER struck out on a mission- they had long ago shared their twin’s fascination with Undertale, but they had always appreciated the creativity behind the fandom and their alternative routes. Curiosity led them to program themselves into the game, although this time they were more successful than Player. They were able to access all the alternate timelines and program themselves into that, vowing to get a “Perfect Ending” for their sibling.

They first stumbled upon Underfell, where they adopted their iconic red-striped look after UF! Frisk suggested it. They moved over to UnderSwap, but they became dissatisfied with just following US! Chara through the Underground. They killed US! Chara, shattered their soul so that they wouldn’t be able to interfere, and modified the code so that the characters recognized PLAYER as the eighth fallen human. They went through the True Pacifist, Pacifist, Neutral, and Genocide Routes of UnderSwap, then they coded themselves from UnderSwap to HorrorTale, performing the same feats and then moving from HorrorTale to DreamTale, Storyshift, Storyshift: Facing Demons, DustTale, and eventually all of the timelines. They were becoming dissatisfied and increasingly frustrated and volatile with having experienced all the endings and interactions, and still not yet achieving an ending they deemed to be perfect.

InkShift Chara met them as PLAYER was in the midst of disassembling and reassembling their code for other timelines. Having had sensed the true amount of LOVE within their soul, InkShift called upon Atonement. (An OC designed by Tarylem: Atonement takes on the form of an unknown Sans AU, although in actuality he is a force created to dispense justice, and is present everywhere, not just in Undertale and Deltarune.)

Atonement managed to take PLAYER by surprise. He stripped them of their coding abilities and tore out their soul. 

InkShift hid their soul within the only alternate universe PLAYER had not visited, forcing the timeline to jam it into a desperate host to stabilize the sudden power transfusion. Almond became PLAYER’s new host, as InkShift Chara had unknowingly given PLAYER reign over Almond and the created body (Anemone), allowing them to switch between the two at will.

This sketch took a while, mainly because I wasn’t able to think of a pose for PLAYER/Anemone. The others won’t take as long, for certain. -ASRIEL.

edit: eeee. Rereading this lore’s making me all giddy again- I really want to start coding the basics, but I’m not sure what program to run it with- GameMaker Studio runs on a jumble of C++ and C#, so if something happens to the program I won’t know what to do. :( I’m only good with HTML, but if HTML’s not available JavaScript’s second, although I’m really slow with JS. .-. But if that’s the only option left, then it’ll be better than nothing- Toby Fox used GameMaker Studio for Undertale’s battle system, as well as GMS 2 for Deltarune. Seems like a good candidate.

[lazisconcerned]

I just think the comparisons between Chara and Frisk are neat.

One thing between them I don't see discussed much is the angel v demon narrative? Sure, the evidence is sparse- but I say this more as a "This is an interesting thing" than it is a "This is fact"

If you're wondering what I'm referring to, here :3

During any route, there's this sign in waterfall:

The most common interpretation of this is that Frisk(or the player, depending on how you're viewing the game) is the "angel", as they either free all the monsters, or kill them all, which also empties the underground. This, of course, is ignoring the neutral routes as well as other popular theories(such as the Angel being Chara or Asriel), but I'll be going with it for this.

Chara, in turn, refers to themself as a demon after you play the genocide route.

This one is less disputed than the "Angel", as Chara quite literally just says they are a demon. Whether or not you believe Chara is evil or good(or, like I do, somewhere in between), it's intriguing.

Going with the narrative that they're evil, it puts them as the MCs enemy, clearly highlighting them as such. It also adds intrigue when you don't go the pacifist route with Frisk, as, in that case, you're an Angel siding with a demon.

Comparatively, if you believe Chara to be on the more good or neutral side of things, you could see this them as them, once again, attempting to distance themself from "humanity". Calling themself a demon, the enemy of humanity.

However you see it, I just like the thought!

[eksvee15]

EUREKA, UTDR THEORISTS.

I have been working on a theory regarding all of our repetitive smiles. All the weird smiles we don't know the meaning of in Undertale and Deltarune? That theory attempts to solve this mystery.

I call this theory, the Cheshire Smiles Theory, or the Consequences Theory. Bear with me on this one because it'll be a wild [Ride Around Town].

Disclaimer, this theory bases itself off the "Chara is the consequence, not the villain" theory, the "Kris hates us" theory, the overpopular "MysteryMan is Gaster's sprite" theory and the whole shtick of the secret bosses seeking out freedom. This theory also bases itself around the concept of Consequences a LOT. If you don't believe/like any of those theories, read at your own risks and don't get angry at me. I warned.

What is a cheshire cat's smile?

Smiling like a cheshire cat, as defined by google, goes as follows : "The Chesire Cat grin is an expression made by The Trickster who's up to something, and 'something' never bodes well for the person they are smiling at. Usually, it involves their total humiliation - occasionally it involves mortal danger."

Alternatively, a cheshire cat smile can be compared to the very literal meaning of it : The smile found on the enigmatic Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland. The peculiar traits we'll focus on here will be the enigmatic smiles behind which he hides, as well as its ability to disappear and appear at any time.

In Undertale and Deltarune, however, smiles are relatively common. Happy smiles like Papyrus and Undyne's, embarassed smiles like Alphys', fake smiles like Rouxls Kaard's, hopeful smiles like Asgore's and Asriel's, evil smiles like KING's and somewhat Queen's? But most notably Flowey (the absolute king of evil and fake smiles here). This leaves a type of smile : The type of smile found on Chara, Spamton, Jevil, Sans to an extent, MysteryMan/Gaster, Spamton NEO, Kris in the Ch1 ending, and the TV's smile in the Ch2 ending. Those, are which I'll refer to as cheshire smiles, and I believe they come from a specific cause : Consequences. Those smiles that seem to appear and disappear when we least expect it? They're all thanks to the consequences of actions. Ours, theirs, actions overall. And I'm going to explain why.

Undertale's Cheshire smiles

The most obvious cheshire smile I think about here is Chara's. Chara, the demon that comes when you call its name. You only see their smile upon completing either a No Mercy run, or a Post NoMercy Pacifist run. Chara is the literal embodiment of the consequences of our actions, here to delete our world regardless of our choice after a No Mercy run, here to remind us of our actions if we try a Pacifist afterwards. Chara is there. Chara remembers. Chara reminds. Chara is the consequence we deserve. And their smile is engraved in our game, as a consequence of making the underground go empty. And it will be there every single time.

Chara here is the whole basis of why this theory exists. A smile that we don't expect, a smile that randomly appears, and a smile motivated by the consequences of our actions. The perfect place to start. Chara is going to be our standart for what a Cheshire smile means in Undertale and Deltarune alike.

Our next candidate in Undertale will be Sans. Although Sans doesn't constantly seem to fit the description of cheshire smile, he is actually one of those that fits the BEST, both based on Cheshire Cat standarts and Chara standarts. He appears and disappears at will, has an unforgettable smile, is a literal judge, is silly and lazy (like a cat) but also, the Sans fight is the most memorable consequence of doing the No Mercy run. Sans' true smile, different from his smile in the textbox, only appears in the ending of a run most of the time, be it in the True Pacifist ending, or the No Mercy ending, we will be faced with that smile, possibly for dozens of times over. I don't count Papyrus, because Papyrus' smile is always innocent, happy, cheerful, confident. Sans' smile never shows emotion, he's a pokerface. Yes, I know, he appears shocked when we hit him but come on. This doesn't disprove it. Sans is peculiar also in the sense that he is very much depressed. Be it through the HP is Hope theory, or just by Undertale lore standarts, it's obvious Sans is depressed and his smile isn't there for himself. Which WOULD qualify him as a fake smiler if the whole rest of the explanation didn't matter, and if the Sans lore wasn't as complicated as it is. It's obvious something happened to make Sans stay like this, he's not just keeping it up for the image. We've yet to discover why, though.

The last member of this list will be MysteryMan/Gaster. I know he's relevant in both games, but his first real appearance is in Undertale plus his lore is in Undertale, so I'll put him there. Gaster is similar to Sans in his cheshire traits, in the sense that he is incredibly mysterious, basically can disappear at will, and his smile seems frozen on his face. A trait also similar to Cheshire Cat is that he doesn't seem real despite being in front of us. However, Gaster has no relevant appearance in the game for us, why would his smile be cheshire if there's none of our consequences? Well that's it, the consequences aren't OURS. They're HIS. His smile is frozen like this, frozen through time and space, because his ambition caused him to fall into his own creation. He was his own downfall, and as a consequence, he is stuck like this. Once again, a smile caused in consequences.

Notes

One could argue OMEGA Flowey's smile is a cheshire one, given the entire embodiment of consequence that he is. However, that's the only trait he has, a consequence that's not even caused. It's a decision he takes, the only consequence is that he looks like that after taking the souls, nothing more. OMEGA Flowey, much like Flowey, has a smile stuck in the Evil Smiles cathegory.

Mad Dummy and Mad MewMew don't count here, as their smiles are either malicious or, in No Mercy, genuine happiness. While the latter comes from a consequence, it isn't nearly relevant enough to be cheshire, and has no implication aside from "I finally became myself".

Deltarune's Cheshire smiles

With the Undertale part out of the way, time for the big bit of this theory : Deltarune. And oh boy do I have a lot to talk to. Bear in mind, Chara's smile is the standart Cheshire smile portrayed by Toby Fox.

Our first contestant here will be Kris. Kris? But they never smile!. . . They do, once to our knowledge. In the Chapter 1 ending, Kris flashes a menacing, yet.. Familiar smile to us. I believe this smile is the consequence of us, the soul, possessing them and making them do all of this, and their smile here as well as their actions is their way to fight back. It's to send a message to us, that consequences are coming. This smile is VERY reminiscent of Chara's own smile, which shows up at the end of the run and reminds us that our actions WILL have consequences. This is exactly Kris' message here, I believe. Small note here, this will be the one smile that barely doesn't fall out of cheshire. It's WAY on the fronteer, but given how relevant Kris' smile is in this scene, it barely makes it in.

Next up is Jevil, our good ole' jester of the deck himself. Jevil is probably the character that smiles the most in Deltarune, as he never gives it up. Even the Devilsknife is smiling, to quote him, and he IS the Devilsknife. Jevil has the silliness, and the ability to disappear to reappear, while also having the dangerousness and most of all - being optional. The consequences here, again and much like with Gaster, don't come from us. Seam (a smiling cat..how peculiar and conveinient.), Jevil's friend, gives us insight and story on Jevil. Evidently, Jevil found himself behind bars due to his false belief of being free to do anything, and going rogue because of it. Jevil broke, and his insanity lead him to where he is today as a consequence. Jevil is stuck smiling in his little freedom in the end.

We've been to one end of the freedom scale, let's go to the other end : Spamton G. Spamton. This guy has probably the biggest amount of consequence events in the entire Deltarune yet. He was a salesman, got a phonecall and as consequence his smile was everywhere, the phonecalls left so he fell to the dumpster and now he's just a smiler puppet craving ..something. The biggest reason I bring him to the table is because HE IS LITERALLY A COPY PASTE OF CHARA IN THE SNOWGRAVE RUN. He gives us the weapon of the kill, tells us how many left, and he is the overpowering force you meet at the very end of Chapter 2's dark world if you do Snowgrave. In parallel he calls out every single action you've taken. He literally does Chara's job in Deltarune Chapter 2's weird route, in which he becomes the embodiment of the consequences of our actions. In the normal route, as himself, he's a broken man trying to escape the situation his own consequences put him in. Spamton NEO is his own worst invention, an award losing smile to lose it all. Another thing that shows the cheshire in Spamton would be the way he seems to be everywhere. Check any dumpster, it'll have a pillow inside. Spamton lives everywhere. Even the LoadedDisk item smiles in your hand, like Devilsknife with Jevil.

Finally, the TV at the end of Chapter 2. I think it's going to be a prelude to a cheshire smile, it has the design for it already and with all the smiles we've encountered so far, this feels very much like Kris' smile. A prelude to danger, a message. We know one thing for sure : it's here because of a bad consequence. Kris opened a dark fountain, despite Ralsei's warnings. As a result, this smile comes into play to tell us things are about to go south. I think this preludes a Cheshire smile for the character this is supposed to foreshadow, especially considering their entire smile will be a reminder of Kris' actions in opening that fountain to begin with. If it's Mike's smile? We'll probably see it everywhere.

Notes

One thing I didn't mention is something I said at the very beggining. The cheshire cat's smile is prelude to danger and a bad message, which Jevil, Spamton NEO and the TV's smile all represent.

Similar to previous examples, Ralsei, Susie and Lancer are no cheshire. They're not a consequence, and Ralsei's smiles are of utter kindness, Susie's are usually positively mischievous or just genuine, and Lancer. . .is Lancer.

Important to note here that Mike essentially humiliated Spamton, which feeds even more in my theory of Mike's smile being cheshire-esque.

There you have it. My entire theory on the hidden types of smile through both games. I believe this will probably amount to something in the end of Deltarune if my theory prooves true, and if it does, then the ending of Deltarune might really change as a consequence of finding all of those secret bosses. But that's a theory for later.

Thanks for reading, I'd love your input in this and PLEASE take care of yourself, 'cause someone really cares about you :)