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geoffrard · 2 years

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My Chemical Romance, Hardcore Sexual Repression, and the Lemon Stealing Whore

[Content warning for non-graphic references to pornography, sex, sexual violence, and negative attitudes towards sex work. There is no explicit nudity but you might not want to read this in front of your boss. All images have descriptions in alt text. See sources here. Read this essay on my Dreamwidth here.]

It’s the setup of a joke: Gerard Way, Mikey Way, Frank Iero, Matt Pelissier, and a porn actress huddle around a leather couch in a dingy room as a camera rolls. The actress, a young and bright-eyed Joanna Angel, asks each member of My Chemical Romance in the room, “Do you guys watch porn?”

Most of us have seen the interview. If not, stop and watch it now, because nothing else I say will make sense otherwise. (And here, just for you, I’ve reuploaded the video with at least 10% more pixels. Watch below, or read a transcript here.)

youtube

The fact that My Chemical Romance, whose faces have decorated shirts at Hot Topic for over fifteen years, whose songs have saved lives and inspired memes, who all have wives and children, would end up associated with an alt porn website like Burning Angel often baffles fans watching the interview for the first time.

For example, see these comments left on the original video uploaded to YouTube:

These comments, though more than a few years old, generally represent how a lot fans understand the interview. Other people think it’s funny and perhaps a little out of left field, but don’t question how four members wound up on a porn site like Burning Angel. Both attitudes are a pretty typical example of the MCR fandom’s ignorance about the New Jersey hardcore scene, as well reflecting general weirdness about sex work.

Since I cannot turn my historian brain off, I wanted to provide some of the extremely interesting historical context behind the video. The post I had originally planned to make very, very briefly outlined how MCR ended up being interviewed by Joanna Angel, founder and longtime CEO of Burning Angel. But the more I looked into it, the more I fell down a rabbit hole. This eventually turned into something of a mammoth manifesto about women and sexuality in the late 90s hardcore scene that gave My Chemical Romance and Joanna Angel careers. I will warn you: this is long. But it’s also important historical background information that rarely gets discussed at all—especially by MCR fans.

(So, with all that said, please feel free to ask any questions about anything I say here! Sources for will be posted on a different post which I will link at the end, and I have been quite thorough, though not as thorough as I could have been.)

Tl;dr: Joanna Angel came up in the exact same scene as My Chemical Romance, Thursday, and Midtown, a scene which stigmatized open sexual expression, at the expense of women and queer people—especially those involved in sex work. When she started her porn site, Burning Angel, she applied the same DIY values that her peers did to their own bands, but faced violence and ostracization from a subculture much too repressed to embrace such blatant expression of female sexuality. In this context, the My Chemical Romance interview with Burning Angel in 2004 was not only a group of guys doing a favor for someone they had probably known for years at that point; it can also be read as a somewhat controversial act that pushed back against this aversion to sexuality, and that helped legitimize and popularize both the site and Joanna Angel’s career.

Burning Angel: the Movie (2005)

Say you’re a diehard My Chemical Romance fan in 2005—if you really want to watch your favorite band discuss their porn-viewing habits, you’ll have to travel to either your local adult entertainment store or go to the hardcore porn site BurningAngel.com and order their first DVD, appropriately titled Burning Angel: The Movie. Once you have the disc, you’ll have to fast forward through several sex scenes and interviews with other bands before you arrive at what you wanted: the actress who you’ve just seen in hardcore sex scenes asking Gerard, Frank, Mikey and Otter questions about their preferences in adult entertainment.

The DVD was Burning Angel’s first attempt at more professional pornography, and Joanna’s first foray into full participation in filmed, live-action sex. Joanna Angel would later go on to be one of the most well-known porn stars of our time—in Virgin Territory (2006), for example, she played a lemon stealing whore; you might have seen the video—and Burning Angel would be credited with the popularization of the “alt” porn genre, which broke from the exploitative mainstream porn model and typically featured models representative of subcultures.

But in 2005 her alt porn empire was still in its infancy, and Joanna was still struggling to rectify her recent full expulsion from the local New Jersey hardcore social scene with her enduring devotion to DIY values—and the fact that members of the sexually repressed subculture that had ostracized Joanna were her site’s target audience.

Joanna Angel on the Scene

Any thoughts of a future career in adult entertainment and the last name Angel were far from her mind when Joanna Mostov enrolled in Rutgers University in 1998.

Though she often pushed back against the wishes of her religious orthodox Jewish family, the extent of her adolescent rebellion had ended at sneaking out to punk shows and getting piercings her mother wouldn’t approve of. At Rutgers, Joanna quickly became enmeshed in the New Brunswick hardcore scene, putting her in the same circles as a host of people whose names you might recognize: Geoff Rickly of Thursday (who ran hundreds of shows out of his basement), Gabe Saporta of Midtown and Cobra Starship, and Alex Saavedra of Eyeball Records.

Geoff Rickly: Well, you know, the funny thing is that, at the time, Joanna, who would later go on to form Burning Angel and become a famous porn star in her own right, was playing in her goth bands with chelsea haircuts and the basement shows. Like, her local goth band would play. And they’d bring out people and stuff, and I’d put touring bands on that show, and so it’s funny to me how, weirdly, DIY punk hardcore scenes and porn had weird associations then. [source: Going Off Track: Geoff Rickly, 2012]

The NJ hardcore scene was close-knit enough that while she only has documented friendships with some of these people, she had to have crossed paths with most of them multiple times (for example, Joanna was at the show on December 31, 1998 where Thursday and Midtown played their first real sets). She went to every show she could and hosted some in her own basement.

While we don’t necessarily have a written record of her friendship with Frank Iero and Mikey Way of My Chemical Romance, the fact that Joanna attended plenty of shows in the North Jersey area and also spent a lot of time at the Eyeball House (Alex was a close friend; and Pencey Prep was on his label) suggests that, at the the very least, Joanna, Frank, and Mikey were aware of each other’s presence in these early years. They were peers in the same scene, just as they were with everyone else who frequented the same venues or played in the same basements.

For years, the hardcore scene mattered to her more than anything else; it was her social life and what she based her values upon.

Those hardcore values and a growing curiosity about her own sexuality lead Joanna to sex-positive feminist activism and a writing internship with Nerve.com, an online magazine which explored topics related to sex and romantic relationships. From there, her interest in expressing her own sexuality continued to develop.

[Suicidegirls in 2001]

So, in 2002, when her roommate and friend asked her if she wanted to start a porn site that offered more explicit content than sites like SuicideGirls, which featured punk aesthetics and band interviews but stayed away from anything more than simple nudity, Joanna agreed.

BurningAngel.com went live in April 2002. It wanted to do things differently than other porn sites. While not necessarily pushing the boundaries of beauty standards, the site used models who were beautiful but in a more approachable, average sense. Joanna has said that since she had little experience even watching porn prior to starting the site, she wanted the site to mimic the kind of sex she was having with actors who looked like the people she was having sex with.

Joanna: When we started the website, it was a reflection of ourselves. It still is to this day. There's band interviews on the website, the style of girl that we use is not your average typical porn star and the personality on the website is a little bit different. All the members interact with each other, all of the girls have blogs and profiles, and people become friends with each other. It's more of a community and a reflection of a subculture rather than just being a website with content to jerk-off to and never think about again. [source: Complex: Interview: Joanna Angel Talks Alt Porn, Piracy, And Her Blow-Up Doll, 2011]

[Burning Angel’s homepage in June 2002]

Hardcore Punk Reacts to Hardcore Porn

Her longtime involvement in the scene and her application of DIY ethics to her porn business did not mean that the hardcore culture actively nurtured Joanna Angel’s career in porn. In reality, many parts of the scene were actively hostile towards Joanna and the site once Burning Angel went live.

This backlash isn’t incredibly surprising within the context of late 90s hardcore, a subculture that by and large refused to acknowledge sexuality of any kind.

The sexual repression in hardcore reflected several different aspects of its culture: a negative perception of women active in the scene; a reaction against the violence of tristate hardcore in the early 90s; and, more than anything else, the general privilege of those involved in the underground.

Like Joanna, Geoff Rickly, and Frank Iero, most people involved in New Brunswick hardcore were enrolled at Rutgers, and white, middle-class male college students dominated the scene. For many of them, applying DIY values to their own lives meant distancing themselves from their socioeconomic upper-hand. Consequently, the scene as a whole developed an attitude of asceticism, rejecting anything that served no purpose beyond pleasure or personal enjoyment. (Of course, it was easy for them to reject their social privileges, especially when they could just as easily cast off their aesthetic of poverty and self-denial for an adulthood of relative comfort.)

To do anything just because you enjoyed it, or because it brought you happiness in the moment, was seen to be a betrayal of hardcore’s higher intellectual goals—and that included sex. You can see this trend, for example, in lyrics from NJ hardcore bands, which focused on things like political issues or childhood traumas instead of the common themes of sexual and romantic desire found in mainstream music.

Joanna spoke about finding comfort in the general sexual repression of the scene because of her own adolescent insecurities:

Joanna: Me being very sexually not advanced and insecure, [90s hardcore] was the perfect place for me, because I could ignore [sexuality]. I was getting older, I don’t know, I wanted to explore myself more. So I began to write these graphic sex stories. My roommate, Mitch, knew about it, and I remember him getting a kick out of it. [source: Turned Out A Punk #127: Joanna Angel (Burning Angel)]

For another salient example, Geoff Rickly of Thursday has spoken about his own struggles with the hardcore scene’s repression, especially in regards to the shame he felt about writing sexually explicit stories for pay:

Geoff Rickly: You have to think, this is the 90s punk scene. It's not now. Nobody would openly talk about sex in DIY punk. It was such a repressed PC time, where — I mean, a lot of that stuff is my heart, like the political activism that was still such a part of punk, and actually just giving a shit about things that matter, and modes of how you're doing what you're doing. Those things seemed to matter back then, and I appreciated that side, but it was also so uptight. So repressed. [source: Going Off Track: Geoff Rickly, 2012]

While its general aversion to sexuality might have been born out of an initial desire to reform the violent misogyny of other hardcore cultures, it created the conditions for certain social problems to go completely unaddressed. After all, how can you address the rampant misogyny, homophobia, and sexual violence in your community if any acknowledgement of sexuality is taboo?

(For a brief but interesting perspective on the impact of hardcore sexual repression upon queer people in the scene, check out Episode #4 of Geoff Rickly’s podcast Dark Blue, in which Steve Pedulla and Norman Brannon discuss their experiences as gay musicians in the scene.)

Of course, these issues aren’t confined to the New Jersey hardcore, nor were they unique to the late 1990s. This particular brand of sex-averse misogyny reflects important threads within the feminism of the time which villainized open female sexuality—especially when it concerned sex work. Left-leaning spaces like music undergrounds adopted this sex-negative, misogynistic attitude as a part of their feminism—not in opposition to it.

In particular, the Riot Grrrl movement of the late 80s/early 90s pushed back against a culture (and a subculture) that shamed women for publicly expressing their sexuality. Following that, early fanzines and performance practices addressed the mistreatment of sex workers in hardcore as one way that female bodily autonomy was limited and women’s bodies were policed. Bikini Kill frontwoman and Riot Grrrl pioneer Kathleen Hanna has spoken about her past in sex work, the hostility she endured for openly discussing it, and the importance of that experience in shaping the form of Riot Grrrl’s protest.

Kathleen Hanna: “Whenever we were written about in the press, I wanted my sex-work history to be part of the description, because I wanted other women whom I danced at clubs with (and who never knew my real name) to see themselves reflected in some way. A lot of women who are doing music now have been sex-trade workers, prostitutes, dancers; I thought it was really important that I didn’t hide that. But I also didn’t want to glamorize that experience in being a super-cool thing in itself. I just wanted other women who work in the sex industry to remember that we can be sex-trade workers and be philosophers, writers, musicians, artists, or whatever. [Andrea Juno, Angry Women in Rock (1996)]

Riot Grrrl gained significant traction and nation-wide attention. In the decade or so after Kathleen Hanna and her peers catalyzed the movement, bands like Bikini Kill and Bratmobile remained incredibly popular, and likely contributed a lot to shifting attitudes towards sexuality in music subcultures.

Still, these sex-negative attitudes prevailed among enough people involved in local underground scenes that, when Burning Angel launched in 2002 and Joanna started marketing it in local hardcore spaces, the site received a lot of attention—both good and bad. The positive attention fueled the site and allowed it to expand beyond just photographs, text interviews, and low-budget personal sex tapes that characterized its early content.

However, the negative attention Joanna and her site received was vocal, targeted, and occasionally involved literal physical violence. As Kathleen Hanna had faced moral condemnation for her time in sex work, Joanna Angel faced criticism from fellow members of her subculture who thought sex work to be completely antithetical to their social justice goals. She has spoken about how difficult it was to see a community she had cared about for years turn her back on her completely for engaging in a type of work that she found enjoyable, and that she thought could be done with moral integrity.

Joanna Angel: People were calling me ugly, calling me all sorts of mean shit, how [Burning Angel was] making a profit, [we were] exploiting women, blah blah blah. And I was so bummed. I was like, you know, this isn’t fair! I always support every fucking band in the punk scene. Even if I don’t like the band, I support them—I go to their shows, I would hand out fliers for their shows. I thought it was like a code, in the punk scene, that it doesn’t matter whether you like it or not. If this is part of the scene, you accept it, and you help it, and you love it—and I thought that’s what you were supposed to do. I remember being very hurt, you know? I was like, dude, I didn’t violate any punk laws by starting this. My friend from my computer class is the one who put it online. All the other girls on the site—all three of them— were punk chicks and part of the scene. And I felt really bad; people were insulting the other girls, and I really thought I was starting this cool thing where girls could just explore their sexuality. And mind you, at the time, the beginning of Burning Angel was just photos, not even videos. People were getting all up in this upheaval because of a handful of naked photos on the internet. It’s crazy to think about now. [source: Turned Out A Punk #127: Joanna Angel (Burning Angel)]

Amidst the mounting antagonism and after an incident at Hellfest 2004, Joanna officially decided to leave the hardcore scene that she’d been involved with for over five years.

Joanna Angel: I remember going to Hellfest one year. Maybe it was like 2004?…these girls were throwing water balloons at us because we had a booth there. Because we used to get booths at some of these shows and sell tshirts. We didn’t even have any DVDs—we’d literally get in a booth and sell tshirts and hand out fliers and stickers. And these other girls were throwing water balloons at us and calling us sluts. I was like, “Hey, that sucks, can you stop doing that?” And one of my friends—he owned a record label. He owned Eyeball Records, Alex…he saw the girls picking on us, and he went over to the girls, and said, “Hey, can you cool it? They have a booth here—let them do their thing. They’re not gonna get in your way.” And then those girls and their boyfriends beat him up, and he wound up in the hospital. He almost died. It was terrible. And I was like, we have to get out here. Let’s just stay away. If we’re a porn site, let’s just be a porn site. Let’s promote ourselves with other porn companies; let’s step away for a little while. Everyone in the punk scene knows who we are. They’ve made their decision about if they like us or not. I’m still gonna interview bands, still gonna do that thing—but I’m done. [source: Turned Out A Punk #127: Joanna Angel (Burning Angel)]

Joanna and Burning Angel’s separation from the NJ hardcore scene in 2004 finally brings me to Burning Angel: The Movie, My Chemical Romance, and that interview.

So, 2004: after over two years spent largely behind the camera and slowly expanding her porn site, Joanna finally decided to get in front of the camera and produce a more intentionally crafted alt porn video that retained the feel of the website. Thus Burning Angel: the Movie was born.

As Joanna explains in the interview, the general idea of the DVD was that different self-contained pornographic scenes would be interspersed with band interviews. One of the key features of Burning Angel, like Suicide Girls before it, was the band interviews subscribers could access alongside the porn, so it made sense to preserve this aspect of the site on the DVD experience. Joanna interviewed five bands in early 2005: Killswitch Engage, Eighteen Visions, Shadows Fall, The Dillinger Escape Plan, and, of course, My Chemical Romance—all bands that Joanna admired, and who had been involved in the same scene that she had recently left because of very real threats to her emotional and physical well-being.

Within this context, My Chemical Romance’s decision to participate in the Burning Angel interview was a statement, as they put their support behind an enterprise that was highly controversial within the social circle most immediately relevant to them.

Fresh off the 2004 Warped Tour and promoted Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge, My Chemical Romance might have appeared to be largely divorced from their scene of origin, but they still acted in response to those politics—politics that impacted American culture at large more than you’d think—in both intentional and incidental ways.

That is not to say that MCR was being overtly political; they’ve made a clear effort to distance themselves from the clear-cut political imagery and goals of some of their peers in hardcore. Still, the band (Gerard especially) very obviously cared a lot about using their music and stage presence to express shades of sexuality that they perceived to be lacking from some forms of music.

Gerard: I also wanted, at the same time, [for] the record to be a testament to self-expression, and putting stuff in there like that, while not being a homosexual myself, but expressing myself in a homosexual way, is either going to push your buttons in a negative way or you’re going to identify with it. [AP: Well, this whole scene wants you to be sensitive, but not too sensitive.] It is extremely homoerotic, especially the whole emo-sensitive thing. Everyone’s wearing women’s pants; everyone’s got women’s haircuts; everyone’s wearing youth-medium shirts. I don’t want to come out and say it. It’s blatantly obvious. Wearing a leather jacket is an extremely masculine thing to do in this scene. Even the hardcore bands, the really hard ones, you see them in makeup and stuff. I like that. I think it keeps it dangerous. It keeps it exciting. In a way, sex has really been missing from rock, especially because of all the sensitivity. That’s what I really wanted to convey on the record, too. I wanted the record to be very dangerous and sexy at the same time. There’s such a lack of sex in music. It’s been more about getting in touch with your feelings and being there for each other, which is great, but it’s definitely lacking this sexual duality. [Source: Alternative Press #193, Aug 2004; emphasis mine]

Additionally, many of their moments of explicit sexuality on stage were designed to be somewhat incendiary and polarizing.

But it’s important to remember that, just as late 90s New Jersey hardcore was not the first subculture with issues of sexual repression, My Chemical Romance does not represent the first attempt to push back at this asexual culture and definitely weren’t leading that particular conversation. Gerard took inspiration from artists already pushing those boundaries and incorporating sexual expression into their art. He has spoken, for example, about the impact of Riot Grrrl acts upon his music and stage presence (Joanna Angel has similarly pointed to bands like Bikini Kill as significant influences). These bands had already incorporated resistance against harmful sexual repression, values which Gerard and his band mates took on when they adopted their styles into My Chemical Romance.

(I also want to mention briefly that other significant people in the hardcore world have spoken out against pornography, such as Ian MacKaye of the formative post-hardcore band Fugazi. MacKaye owned Dischord Records, the definitive underground music label, to which a young Frank Iero unsuccessfully attempted to get his band Sector 12 signed. The matter of pornography and its role within the hardcore world was not one upon which you could maintain a neutral stance after, say, appearing on a porn DVD.)

As shitty as it was that they needed approval from the men in the scene, My Chemical Romance, along with other bands, supported Burning Angel, a new kind of porn, and helped legitimize Joanna Angel’s claim that what she was doing was not backwards or exploitative but had integrity.

Have you had an issue with people you grew up with when they find out you're in the adult industry? Joanna: At first people had problem[s], but not anymore. Once the cool kids in bands said, "I think what she's doing is cool" all the others turned around. Everyone I ever respected didn't have an issue with it and all the stupid, annoying hardcore kids had a problem. For as much shit as I got, I also got a lot of support. [Source: Hustlerworld Interview: Joanna Angel]

I don’t mean to glamorize the porn industry or to depict Joanna Angel as some savior of female sexuality in the early 2000s. But, as Kathleen Hanna points out, sex work is legitimate work, and sex workers deserve to have workplaces that treat them with dignity and communities that recognize their humanity. The reality was that NJ hardcore as a community did not support sex workers. Fundamentally, these were the barriers that caused Joanna and Burning Angel to make an exodus from the local hardcore scene—and they are the attitudes we risk reproducing when we express discomfort that a band we admire has interacted with a sex worker.

My intentions with this post (which turned out longer than I had ever anticipated, so Jesus, thank you for reading) were to shed light on the historical context of one moment in My Chemical Romance’s history. I’ve found that the average MCR fan, even those with a specific fondness for their early years, doesn’t actually know much at all about it—so I hope this has given some clarity.

I’ll end on this note: Without bands supporting Burning Angel, who knows—we might have never seen the lemon stealing whore. At the very least, the culture surrounding porn would look a lot different. That might not mean it would look better or worse—though you can’t deny the role that Joanna Angel played, nor the role that bands from the New Jersey Hardcore scene like My Chemical Romance played in shaping the American culture of pornography.

Find sources for this post here.

[acknowledgements: thank you so much for reading! my forever thanks, as always, to nic @raytorosaurus, sophia @sendmyresignation, vyn @bringmoreknives, and maddy @8thnotes for their continued cheerleading as i spent over a month writing this long, long post. additional thanks to wes @killrockstar for very kindly offering some incredibly helpful guidance about riot grrrl and sending me resources about kathleen hanna. and much gratitude to merlin @void-flesh and @transmascfrankiero for their feedback on the final draft of this essay.]

#mcr #my chemical romance #joanna angel #mcr meta #my post

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the-great-ladyg · 2 months

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So, I watched the James Somerton second apology video so you don't have to, this are my highlights, feel free to add more if I missed something important:

He monetized the video to donate to HBG's team and Wikipedia, apparently, he said also he has reached some of the people who he plagiarized but still, if he did he would have explicitly said "I'm donating to them"

Did he really said "well, I'm a white cis gay man, I don't have the same experiences as others in the community" as an excuse on plagiarizing others' works? And the "I thought I might be able to won over some people" sounds like some white savior shit

He still throws Nick under the bus, it really shows that James doesn't regret any other times he did that and it sounds like he hired Nick as a shield for criticism and not to have a more diverse work team

He apologizes to Jessie Gender and many others, but doesn't explicitly addresses why he might have offended them on first place (except for the police incident), yeah, he says he was reactionary, but he has been on many occassions. I'm not expecting a full detailed explanation, but at least he could have said "for the Nebula drama" or something like that

James says that at one point, due to covid economic consequences, he and Nick became poor and that led him to plagiarize more since they had to upload more videos, and look, I suck at organizing my time, I tend to do everything with little time before the date, and I wrote most of my thesis on the last minute with one or two days of investigating and I still didn't plagiarize, I could cite all of my sources the correct way, if my early 20s procrastinating ass could wrote a 70 page thesis on my own without plagiarizing, he could write a script with a second person without stealing but he prefered to do it anyway

Also the alegedly head injury, I'm not going to say that's a lie, but knowing how this guy uses any card on his favor, this might be something he pulled from his ass to justify himself

I don't know why but some of this Telos drama explanatiom sounds again like he didn't even know how to do all of this, and I get what is to start a project having little to no idea on how to start or continue, but he tried to do so much with so little without asking for any help when he clearly needed some help other than Nick, and also sounds like another excuse to justify plagiarizing

"Misinformation made its way into our past videos", no, my friend, it doesn't make its way when you investigate or check a site other than the first one you see, James loves to say he likes to investigate but still says things like this. "It wasn't malicious", (seriously, the audacity of this bitch), oh yeah, there's nothing malicious coming from the mysogynist biphobic and transphobic dude who misgenders trans people and erases a woman's bisexuality, specially when this lady told you she wasn't a straight woman as you said and this was a known fact for a few years

The ADHD thing feels like some ableist shit, like "don't blame me, I have ADHD uwu", James has offended many groups and communities through his youtube career and in his apology video he still finds the way to insult another group that suffers from many harmful stereotypes

As I said on a post addressing his first apology video, James can't create a space for everyone if he's transphobic, mysogynist, acephobe and racist, and he pretends he's convinced he was creating an "inclusive space"

Just as many people have said before, he didn't address anything of the things he's been accused of except plagiarism, he only says "I'm sorry to everyone who I have offended", no dude, you don't address mysogyny, racism or transphobia this way, James is a piece of shit and a coward.

And this idiot has put on public display some of his videos, specially the ones that show his racism (yeah, the Killing Stalking and Painter of the Night videos), I'm not clicking on them but I'm pretty sure he didn't cut his racist mysogynist rants, because they might not be plagiarized (if James is to be trusted) but they show the worst parts of him when he's trying to be original, and putting this shit videos on public shows he regrets nothing on being a piece of shit.

#james somerton #james somerton can kiss my enby ass #seriously just log off the internet #no one wants you back specially after this

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cobaltbeam · 8 months

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Hello! I saw your "Do Not Repost" post and I 100% support you there, and of course the people who are doing it and especially the ones cropping/erasing your signature know exactly what they're doing. This isn't about them. They're trash and they know it.

However, your post reminded me that I've been thinking for a while that maybe artists should say "re-upload" instead of "repost". TikTok and now Twitter (as part of the rebrand to X) actually call their built-in sharing feature — the equivalent to a reblog, the thing you want people use — "repost", and some newer Tumblr users probably think the word is interchangeable with "reblog" here, and may hesitate to reblog (or equivalent on other platforms) if an artist is telling them not to repost.

Perhaps a disclaimer on your art (or any other artist) could read: "Please share my art by [using the built in sharing functions of the site such as reblog/share to story]. Do not re-upload as a new post to this or any other website." And of course just "do not re-upload" as the short version.

The terrible people will still do it, but it might encourage good faith followers to share your art the right way instead of not at all ❤️

I love your work and am very sorry people are stealing it. You deserve better.

Huh. Didn't know that

It certainly explains why a couple people were worried that sharing in instagram stories was bad. I guess I'll be changing that wording then, thanks

#asks

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the-sweet-hibiscus · 4 months

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On Plagiarism in Fandom

AKA the For Want of a Nail Situation

Please Note: This is Not A Witch Hunt. Do not Harass, Attack, or otherwise attempt to cause harm to the people mentioned in this list. This post is just to highlight and bring awareness to the plagiarism and pattern of behavior within the community, and to see where we should go from here.

On Plagiarism Itself

At the end of 2023, it seemed that the topic of plagiarism on the internet garnered a renewed vigor following the four-hour HBomberguy video on YouTube Plagiarism. The video was extremely well researched, calling out several instances of plagiarism on the site, and spent nearly half it's run time discussing the egregiousness of one specific content creator, James Somerton. Which I found interesting.

During the time of that video's release, coincidentally, in the academic world several high-profile academics – such as the ex-President of Harvard and former MIT professors – began facing their own allegations of plagiarism and improperly sourcing Wikipedia for their massive papers. There, of course, are several other instances of plagiarism in the publishing/book world.

Lauren M. Davis falsely accused a fellow author of plagiarism and faced the backlash for it (amongst other serious issues, but it started with the plagiarism.) Mark Dawson is currently facing accusations of plagiarism in several of his 20+ works. If you go back you can find a multitude of instances where plagiarism has been called out, and consequences are faced the perpetrators.

I only mention these instances as a baseline to frame that both creatively and academically – plagiarism is frowned upon. Plagiarism isn't just stealing money out of the pockets of others – this is a story about fan fiction. We don't get paid. BUT at the end of the day, many fanfics are so extensively planned, written over the course of hours, days, months, even years. And these authors are dedicated to this hobby that they provide for free. It's so important to emphasize that these people are sharing their own ideas, thoughts, wants, and passion with people.

Which is why it's so disappointing when people steal these words to pass off as their own.

Archive Of Our Own, the largest platform for sharing fanfiction on the internet, provides tools to acknowledge other creators. Some people put their inspiration as hyperlinks in their Summary section, so it appears before you even click into the work. AO3 offers a section, when you upload, to denote if you've remixed, translated, or received inspiration from another work, which many authors use! Some even put their reference to their newest works in the end notes of their fics, especially if a specific section relies heavily on the source work material.

So there's no excuse to not reference the source material. There's no excuse to not give credit to the original work of others.

I think, as a fandom, it's important to credit other authors. Not only does it help to cultivate the culture – helping others find works they might not have found otherwise - but it's just the right thing to do. If we wouldn't accept this from YouTubers, Authors, or literally any other hobbyist in the world, why would we accept it from our friends or peers in the fandom space? If it's enough to vilify someone else, why would we make excuses for the person next to us?

Recently, with the growing trend of AI and its plagiaristic uses, fandom has more and more been calling out the use of AI. It is, afterall, essentially stealing works for other people to just mishmash into something uncanny. "AI Art" get's a lot of heat and push back from fandom spaces. In fact, in the Namori fandom, there have been several instances of resistance again AI-generated fanart. Bc people inherently realize the theft and degradation of someone else's work.

I think it's important to hold ourselves to the same standard as everyone else. If we're going to bash someone for using AI or stealing art – how is fanfic different? How is it different to use a machine that steals and repurposes art, versus using your own pen? Personally, there is no difference. Because at the end of the day, we're spitting in the faces of the people who have spent countless hours, days, months, and years honing their work. Even if it's just a single line, stealing work is to say "I don't care enough about this medium to put the work in."

If you love something, and you feel passionate about it, the work necessary to create your fan or original work is something you're willing to do. For every line. If you're passionate about something, you wouldn't want to diminish it's light.

I could not, in one post, talk about every single fan author who has ever plagiarized. I could not talk about Cassandra Clare and the hundreds of other instances of plagiarism in fandom spaces bc I'm sure eventually I'd hit the word-limit. There's simply too many cases of people smearing dirt on the faces of the fandom they profess to love.

But today, I want to address for-want-of-a-nail. I want to address them because recently (aka this week) they have accused of the very thing I find so abhorrent. I want to analyze them, their response (or lack their of), and show that this isn't something that just "accidentally happens". There are conscious choices made here, that I think are in-line with what a lot of plagiarist do, especially in Fan-spaces.

For Want of a Nail

@for-want-of-a-nail has been accused of plagiarism in the Shadow & Bone community.

The Discord Sever

Last year, Nail was removed from a large Darklina Discord Sever for plagiarizing major passages and lines from another user's (Ceris_Malfoy) work that had been published in the Discord-shared Google doc before making it to AO3. Nail published their fic first, leaving the original author to debate deleting her own work due to fearing being labeled a plagiarist. The author ended up posting her full story, with no changes, but provided her statement on the matter at the end.

Nail never apologized to this creator. They never acknowledged this creator. They only said there was "inspiration" from other server members, without naming who they were.

This happened months ago. So you may wonder: "why are you bringing this up now?" I wanted to point out something that's been explored before, a notion about plagiarist that appears to ring true in this instance with Nail as well as with other plagiarist online:

The chances that someone only plagiarized once are low. The chances are, someone [like For-Want-Of-A-Nail] will have done this more than once, having rolled the dice time and time again, knowing or thinking that they wouldn't get caught.

(Paraphrased from HBomberguy's video)

I wanted to show that what occurred in the last month was not an accident, at least in my opinion. Like with Ceris_Malfoy, for-want-of-a-nail deliberately went and copied sections of text, barely adjusted it to fit her story, and refused to acknowledge or even apologize for her blatant theft of the work.

So what happened?

On January 1, 2023, @madismen posted the first chapter to Nordenfor Solen.

On December 5, 2023, for-want-of-a-nail published the 5th Chapter of Insider Threat.

It was noticed immediately by an anonymous user, who then commented on Madi's fic to reach out, bringing Madi's attention to the situation. And, of course, Madi noticed it immediately. Let's take a look from the screenshots below. (Nail has, allegedly, begun to change the original document. These screenshots were taken before Madi attempted to reach out.)

Warning for NSFW content below.

As you can see, in some places, such as when Alina/Nina are requesting panties, Nail directly copied the line without changing it at all.

To me the most damning thing is rearranging and replacing facets of the dialogue to make it not exact. A clear intent is required there. An understanding that "this thing is wrong, but I don't want to create my own dialogue, so I'll just fudge it." To me that's the part that makes this blatant theft.

Now, at this point remember, we've just gotten to the point where this is pointed out to Madismen at the beginning of this year. She attempted to reach out to For-Want-Of-A-Nail, but Madi couldn't access their Tumblr. (I believe that Nail preemptively blocked Madi on Tumblr, as many others were able to access their profile at this time.) So she left the following comment on Nail's fic.

Now, if you had clicked the link to Nail's fic, you may have noticed that this comment is not there. This is because for-want-of-a-nail deleted Madismen's comment, refusing to even acknowledge or deny the accusation at all.

Which lead to Madi posting on Twitter X about the situation. I believe both plagiarized works from for-want-of-a-nail have been reported to Ao3, but given their track-record this year I won't be holding my breath. And as of writing, that is the end of it.

for-want-of-a-nail blatantly stole someone else's work and refused to apologize and correct the situation. At least twice within the last year. Now I'm not going to go onto every chapter of every work of theirs to double check and attempt to find other instances of plagiarism. Twice is enough for me, personally, to know that they have likely done this before, and will likely do it again. In my opinion, I think that Nail is aware that what's they're doing is bad. They're aware that stealing is wrong, and that it would change the way their readers respond to the fics they post.

So What?

Speaking with other's in the Darklina community, as well as seeing how people react to other plagiarist on the internet, there's a clear line that is crossed. Consumption, especially in the Western world, is definitely connected now a days with Morals. And there is a large conversation about content vs morality and the lines you should draw from it. But, generally, a consensus has been drawn in at least one area.

Knowing that the work you're consuming is stolen, changes how you feel about it.

(Also paraphrased from HBomberguy, who put it much better than me.)

The worst part of all of this, to me, is the betrayal to readers. To those who genuinely enjoy the works being published and thinking that they are following someone who is creative and passionate about the subject they are writing. Only for them to be lied to. Because yes, when Nail responds to comments gushing over the work as if they wrote every single thing by themselves, they are lying to people.

They felt so entitled to Madismen's words, while going out of their way to call those invested in their story entitled for wanting more.

I think, personally, this is just someone who thinks of fandom as a competition. Someone who is willing to lie, steal, and belittle any and everyone who isn't them. It's not what fandom is supposed to be about. Fandom is a community of people who come together to share and expand their thoughts and feelings about any property. Nail essentially went to Show and Tell, smacked someone else's story out of their hand, then held it up as their own.

Where do we go from here?

Now, like I said at the beginning of this post, I don't want anyone to go out and harass this person. I don't want anyone to bully them, or make us come out and defend them.

Just ignore them.

Madismen has said her piece. I've just chronicled it. We don't need to attack or bully this person, but now that we are aware, we don't need to give them any attention. Giving Nail attention lets them think they've won. It would normalize their actions. We don't have to do either of those things. We don't have to acknowledge someone who has proven they don't care about the people in their fandom. We don't have to do anything.

The great thing about internet fandom is that we can choose who to follow and engage with. We can choose to consume fics that we love, written by people who didn't steal their words. You wouldn't read a plagiarized book. Or at least you shouldn't, because then you're supporting someone who has stolen wages on top of an idea.

There are thousands of works on AO3. There will be another one to read.

I don't want a witch hunt. I want people to stop stealing from other people. But, as I know that won't be happening, I think it's better to call out and learn to avoid these people. Like with the James Somerton situation (aka the HBomberguy video), I think it best that we just don't support this kind of behavior. Yes I'm on my soapbox a little, but it's also my blog and my personal opinion on the matter. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please, don't go harassing these people, especially Nail. Just let them find out the consequences of their actions naturally.

#fanfic #darklina #helnik #shadow and bone #fandom culture #fandom things #plagiarism #soapbox screaming

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mywitchcultblr · 1 year

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NSFW and the importance of AO3

My biggest concern if Twitter really die is nsfw artist and sex workers. Us NSFW artist has been betrayed time and time again by many platform who used to welcome us then spit us out once the platform is big enough or to bow down to advertisers.

TikTok censorship is beyond ridiculous

Pinterest wouldn't even allow topless art of a woman

Instagram too not that friendly to nsfw artist

Tumblr banned porn post 2018 and wouldn't hesitate to delete your blog

I'm not sure about pillowfort i heard it's allow nsfw but not as free as twitter? Correct me if I'm wrong tho i never use it

Facebook? Nah i wouldn't even bother.

There's Pixiv but it's not accessible for all people

Mastodon is still new and frankly many said that it has a steep learning curve

DeviantArt turned it's back both to both nsfw and sfw artist with their censorship (literally i see more and more artist who have to censor tits, cock, asshole and even pussy) and also their bullshit piece of shit AI generation + stealing from artist for their generator

Sites like Rule 34 and Hentai site are there but they are not really platform to grow your audience as an artist + too many art thief

Patreon I heard implementing more censorship? It's not social media but many artist using it

Poipiku is a Japanese platform and not all people are native Japan speaker

The fucking dystopian corporations like apple and Google ( and purity culture both in fandom and non fandom) keep sanitizing the internet and wiped out nsfw content for profit (it's not for protecting children or blah blah blah it's all for ads) kicking out all nsfw content creators from all platform they touch, forcing us to wander with no home to express ourselves. NSFW artist still have some wiggle room to thrive but I think sex workers have it harder to thrive on a more mainstream platform...

I know there's many sites for sex workers like for camgirl or whatever but mainstream sites that once more accepting of nsfw has been kicking down sex workers down to the curb again and again and again

If Twitter let's say goes down suddenly or gradually goes down and maybe banning nsfw... Artist will lost the last mainstream global platform that allow them to grow an audience as an nsfw artist

This for fandom nsfw artist who are not using site like poipiku and pixiv it left us with only AO3 to store our art

Yes you can post art to AO3 just tag it as art, literally it is the best safe haven for writing + art with it's mission to protect people creation, they even have lawyer and stuff to protect your rights + AO3 is super nsfw friendly literally you can upload anything that is legal within the USA law (that's a lot of things, thank God it's not based on my country Indonesia law or you wouldn't even see gay people kissing)

But AO3 is primarily used for fanfic + it's not a social media and shouldn't ever be a social media, it is an archive to preserve fanwork. It is fanwork library of Alexandria. The downside because it's not a social media and thus doesn't have features like chatting, algorithm and stuff is that it's harder for you to grow like in other social media. Let's say Twitter really gone if i want to post a series of comic/manga

Then i have to post the sfw/censored pages to Tumblr + post the nsfw page to AO3 it'll be a hassle for both me and my readers but it's possible

Still such a hassle and it'll be easier to just post to Twitter or when Tumblr still allowed nsfw

Also original artist will find it harder to gain audience faster on Tumblr and AO3 because both website are primarily for fandom. Like i can draw a sketch of let's say Anakin Skywalker and it'll get more traction than a fully rendered piece of original artwork

I mean it's possible but if you want to get traction easily as an original artist your art have to be godlike to be noticed amongst seas of fanart that the general public sees as more favorable... I mean you can try to build audience with doing fanwork and once you got big you can post more OG art

Still... It's easier to grow as an original artist on Twitter than on Tumblr or other platform...

Look yeah it's fun to see Twitter on fire but if it's really gone it'll be a disaster for nsfw creators/artist especially those who are making money from it to keep the roof above their head. I hope Twitter doesn't die tbh (I only made acc to see nsfw art, if Tumblr didn't ban porn i wouldn't even bother to use it or too many social media) also this situation brought back the reminder of AO3 importance as the safest and biggest archive especially for nsfw writers and fan artist that keep losing places to post their work, express themselves and earn a living

#ao3 #essay #discourse #fanwork #fanfic #fanart #twitter #capitalism #puritanism #pro ao3 #ao3 discourse #social media #writing #censorship #artist

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cashmerecrow · 1 month

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𝔉𝔯𝔢𝔢𝔰𝔦𝔞

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fangirltothefullest · 1 year

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!!!!REMINDER!!!! Please stop stealing my artwork!!!

You have my permission to use all of my artwork as images for your stories or icons or blog pictures and even to upload them to pinterest or other sites ONLY IF YOU CREDIT ME AS THE ARTIST!

PLEASE REMEMBER TO CREDIT ME AS THE ARTIST AND LINK TO THE ORIGINAL POST IF YOU ARE ABLE TO!

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO LINK THE ORIGINAL POST THEN:

"Artist: Fangirltothefullest"

IS GOOD ENOUGH!

And if you see my artwork uncredited on another website please comment that I'm the artist and I won't have to make them take it down. If it can't be commented on then I will do the arduous process of getting it removed but I'm fully happy with people spamming that I'm the artist on their pages where they stole it because most of the time they don't know ita stolen. They found it, thought it was cool and reuploaded with no malicious intent- so please if you see my content out in the woods just comment who the artist is! Me!! Fangirltothefullest!!

And please don't steal!!

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kerubimcrepin · 3 months

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Live-read: Trying to understand the Aux Tresors novels without actually reading the novels in question.

This is the last, and the most borderline-experimental and cringe-flop part of the reading break #1, because in this post, I will be discussing the five novels based on the show.

Without actually reading them.

Nobody has seemingly ever scanned or copied them, and I don't have the ability to buy them. If you're French, or a rich person, perhaps you could get your hands on them and tell me how wrong I am, but until then, let's speculate.

You can find the... (sighs deep as fuck) Plot Summaries on Otakia. Everything I will discuss here comes from Otakia. You can find the books somewhere else. Perhaps Amazon, probably some other site too... Because as far as I remember, Ankama's literal official shop only has one of the five.

Roman Kerubim (Dofus) Tome 1 : Le ciel sur la tête

>Read about it here

To regurgitate a bit of info from Otakia: just like the Wakfu novels, which apparently also exist, these five novels are kind of like... a bonus episode in a written form, following the structure of the show.

When grabbing quotes from Otakia I will be putting them into a translator and then screenshotting, so that you can quickly read them, and so that I don't have to copy things.

But I won't be copying the descriptions or summaries of the books, just the bits I'd like to elaborate on. You can read them yourself there.

To reference that one meme: Why didn't he start thinking about his dead parents? Is he stupid?

OKAY, I really didn't expect this post to go anywhere, but it's funny that even in Dofus times, Porkass people were known to eat Twelvians.

You will never fucking guess with what nation Bonta of the Waven era, is involved in a seemingly mutually cannibalistic war with.

Roman Kerubim (Dofus) Tome 2 : Une étoile pour le shérif

>Read about it here

I want to thank whoever runs Otakia for uploading this image specifically. Thank you Monsieur/Madame Otakia.

You may notice that, I will be upscaling all the images I bring here from the Otakia articles. The reason for this is that I am a normal and sane person, and need to look at it in a crispier way.

As you may remember, Kerubim already said that he used to be a sheriff in episode 16, West of Astrub.

The writer of this article will literally be like "the book gives you candy, sucks your dick clean and dry, cleans up your home, and then it gives you a hundred dollars, so I didn't like it."

I wish Kerubim would be a fucking loser and a menace more often.

In the Judgement of The Twelve episode, Kerubim and Bashi had already mentioned meething each other many times as young adults, and having stories about it, so it's nice to see this factoid utilized for more than 2 episodes, if only in a book.

Also, yet again, Kerubim literally doing his job and Bashi being fucking insane and hating him for it, despite doing far worse things.

Roman Kerubim (Dofus) Tome 3 : Panique à Astrub

>Read about it here

Indie is insane for this btw.

Joris canonically eats burgers and YES reading this article a while back is the reason I put burgers into my Joris fanart.

You can see full art on my general artblog @atcham-crepin. Yeah, my blog naming scheme is very creative, I know.

I just think his refined ass eating burgers is funny, even though in canon he is only depicted doing this as a kid.

Roman Kerubim (Dofus) Tome 4 : Le décapiteur de soiffard

>Read about it here

Including the cover art because it is very nice, and to draw your attention to THE best novel none of us will ever get to fucking read.

My dream Joris & Simone story, and I can't even read it. Smh.

List of things I love about this:

Joris stealing stuff.

Simone being a leader.

Kerubim, as we had seen in the past episodes, literally the type to text something like "I am not long for this world.... tell my family I love them." over a tummy ache. I hate this man so much it's unreal.

Of Course he sent them on a wild goose chase over some random bullshit.

Simone and Joris @ Kerubim at the end of this book:

Roman Kerubim (Dofus) Tome 5 : Tous en piste

>Read about it here

I will be real, I don't think any living being can tame that fucking beast.

These books are just treating us with characters in outfits we hadn't seen them in, in the show. It would be... a better world, if these books were episodes instead.

Also, want to yet again remind you that I am upscaling the shit out of these images. Because I'm normal. But at times the results can be wonky.

The World of Twelve has never seen, and will never see again, a couple more toxic than them. Sad!

Unlike the Simone & Joris book, I yet again don't have much to say, but, I'm sure I would, had the books been available to me.

This brings me to a close with the first reading break. After this post, I will resume liveblogging about the show. But I do have ideas of what the next reading break entail, and I think they're rather fun! Like "trying to read Dofus manga without reading Dofus manga" or "reviewing Dofus Aux Tresors merch without buying Dofus Aux Tresors Merch", or, perhaps, "scrying on a crystal ball to read Tot Ankama's thoughts."

...Yeah. Only the last one is a joke.

#novels #ro liveblogs dofus #dofus #wakfu #krosmoz #tagging because I want a broader circle of fans to know about the existence of the novels #so that maybe a kind pro-p*racy frenchman will someday upload them to l*brary g*nisis. i don't know.

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