#dob/rob

[sarnai4]

Right Prisoner, Wrong Prison

(Spoilers for Defenders of Berk and Race to the Edge.) Here's something that has upset me for a while with what happened between Berk and Berserker Island: Dagur went to Outcast Island's prison. This is never actually addressed, but I don't think it's fair. I'll explain why.

The main thing is that Dagur broke no law with Alvin. He broke it with Berk by going against the peace treaty their tribes shared. So, they should have been the ones to arrest him for that. Sending him to Outcast Island is comparable to someone breaking a lease with an apartment and getting fined by a grocery store. It doesn't make sense because that store has no jurisdiction here. If Alvin and Dagur also had a treaty, then fine, it would make sense, but there is no legal backing to support Alvin taking him prisoner.

Next, it's Alvin of all people. The Viking who goes by "The Treacherous" as his moniker. I sure hope that's not warranted...oh wait, it is. According to Gobber (I think, or Stoick) in Alvin's first episode, he has been Berk's enemy for 20 years. Wow. That is a lot of time to essentially be a violent criminal. Hiccup himself has even referred to him as a "Murderous barbarian." Wow again. Clearly, they know he is evil and has been their foe for a couple decades. So, what right does he have to act as anyone's jailer? The last time he was one, it was when he trapped Hiccup. I get it that he changed, but did he? Now, if I go into RTTE, I would feel more confident in saying that he did. Alvin coming to Berk to help out after Stoick got injured was genuinely kind of him. He didn't have to do that. However, as of DoB, he didn't do anything that great. Yes, Alvin helped stop Dagur, but it benefited him too. It wasn't altruistic. Alvin lost his island and was practically on the lam at that point. The options were: stay in protective custody on Berk or stop Dagur and get your island back. Of course he chose the latter. That's not enough to make me think he's an amazing person. He just didn't want to lose his home and have it stay lost. So, the murderous barbarian of 20 years is able to become someone's jailer. I don't even think Dagur is 20-years-old yet, so Alvin very likely could have been villaining (let's pretend this is a word) for longer than the Berserker's been alive.

What makes this worse is the actual relationship between Dagur and Alvin. Hypothetically, if they'd both agreed to work together and then Dagur just decided to lie, I would support Alvin's decision. It would be messed up to do that, but this isn't what happened. Or at least not entirely. From Hiccup's perspective it is and I think this is what led to the imprisonment. Hiccup goes to Outcast Island and sees the two Vikings shaking hands. The next time he sees them, they're fighting and Dagur has the Skrill. Hiccup probably assumes that Dagur betrayed Alvin and then tried to kill him, which would be a fair assumption, but it doesn't make this true. Both parties were planning to betray one another, but an argument could be made that Dagur was lying. Alvin said that he'd learn what he could about the Skrill, then kill Dagur and his men. I believe that. Dagur said he'd use Alvin to get the Skrill, then kill him and his men. I don't believe that. Why? Because Dagur went and got the Skrill...then left.

Dagur didn't even need to make an agreement with Alvin if he wanted to kill him. He has an armada of 50k Vikings. Alvin has probably a hundred men. He's a strong Viking, but he's not "I can kill fifty thousand attackers" strong. So, Dagur could have immediately come and attacked as soon as he saw the Skrill was in his possession. Instead, he agreed to work together (even though he didn't plan on doing it for long). Again, after this, he left. What was stopping him from using the Skrill to attack Alvin and his people then? It wouldn't make sense to return home only to go right back, so the idea of that being his plan seems unlikely. I don't think he was going to attack. He said he would (just like he let everyone think he killed Oswald). Dagur was a new, young chief with problems. They didn't have faith in him, but if he seemed dangerous and scary, even if they lacked trust, they could have fear. That was enough for him at the time. If he's let his people believe he'd do something so violent as patricide, I can believe he'd let them think he'd kill Alvin. Yet, when the time could have come, Dagur took the peaceful route, which is precisely why Hiccup would believe that he didn't. It's surprising that he did, so it's more likely to believe he was the one attacking.

Alvin was actually the one to initiate the fight. Dagur was on his way back home, but Alvin tracked him down and said he'd "Cut [him] to pieces." That sounds like a death threat to me. At this point, Dagur using the Skrill is self-defense. He does try to kill Alvin, but he's still Dagur and is still going to be a violent person. It's not helping that he was attacked first. So, this is the bad blood between the two of them. Somehow, Alvin gets to be the one who was actually going to kill Dagur and also the one who is in charge of him in prison. That is some cruel fate.

Even looking at the actual time in prison makes it bad too. How long was the sentence? It's never stated. It's probably never stated because Alvin was never going to release him. I think Heather later says that she'll bring Dagur back to Outcast Island so that he can spend the rest of his days rotting in a cell. That's what was planned for him. It frustrates me how little is discussed about his time there. Why does he have a haircut? Why does he have that gnarly scar??? That is by far the most gruesome scar of any other character. They all have one over their eyebrows or dragon claw marks (or lava burns later).

I have spent an unhealthy amount of time looking at Dagur's scar because I wanted to understand how this even happened. Just check this thing out. It's not something that could be done in a simple slash. The longest one is from the temple to the chin, there's one around the cheekbone, over the eye, and the last one is sort of under the eye and down. If it was a blade, it would have had to have been made with 4 slices and I've also heard the theory that it was a whip. Ow to either. I don't buy that Dagur would do this to himself. He was way too cocky to self-mutilate. Maybe hair is a status symbol for Vikings of the Archipelago, so Alvin chopped that off and then gave him that scar. A horribly sad headcanon which I've seen many writers have (that I share) is that he was assaulted in prison as well. It's probably true. We see him in a cell on his own, but that could've been after he killed his cellmates. I also wouldn't put it past the guards. Either way, I think it's a bad case of Dagur being the youngest and smallest person there around a lot of touch-starved Vikings. As good of a fighter as he is, this could have happened because he was outnumbered, maybe he had on restraints at the time, or the guards even could have threatened to go after his Berserkers if he fought back.

Admittedly, this part is speculation. We don't know if that happened. Realistically, it probably would have, though, and you can look at him to see that he has not really been sleeping these past 3 years. I don't think there's another character with bags under their eyes like this Berserker. Plus, the one time we see him sleeping, he wakes up like it was some horrible nightmare. I'll concede again that the reason behind this is up for theorizing. What we do know is that he went in, got that scar, and broke out. Only, I think it's a shame that he was put there to begin with. If he had gone to Berk's prison like they sent Alvin to in Cast Out, maybe he wouldn't have gotten so bad. Dagur became noticeably more violent and evil after breaking out of prison than he was before going in. Afterwards, he killed just for the sake of killing. I remember him getting annoyed with Savage for not knowing that they were going to kill the merchants after taking their weapons instead of just paying for them. That Dagur would have killed Alvin to take the Skrill, no questions asked. So, it really is pretty sad that someone who already wasn't necessarily okay to begin with was turned into so much more of a threat. Maybe Dagur would have been able to turn over a new leaf sooner and start fresh if he'd stayed on Berk. What we got was basically a representation of mentally ill people being arrested and not getting better because they're forgotten about and further traumatized by the experiences of prison instead of actually receiving the therapies needed to help them. I suppose that I should get off the soapbox now. If anyone's interested in these ideas being in a story, I wrote one called Rehabilitation on AO3 and Fanfiction.net. Hope you enjoy if you check it out!

[thereweredragonshere]

Astrid should have had a more realistic build. Fight me. FIGHT ME.

[000marie198]

The fact that the Httyd gang knows about the effect of dragon nip but they are never seen using it on any dragons throughout the franchise unless it's like a last resort or an emergency to stop extremely out of control, hostile dragons. They know that grass is like a drug for the dragons so they never use it against them even to try and train them. As if it is against their moral code to try the easiest way to tame any dragon.

Like, these kids know all these little perks about dragons that Hiccup learned in the first movie. The dragon nip, eels, moving spot of light, specific disabling scratch spots etc. And none of them uses these to befriend or train any dragons throughout the course of the franchise! Dragon nip is an emergency last resort for when they encounter a super aggressive dragon, eels are an absolute no, nobody used shiny laser light spot on any dragons post Httyd 1.

No, they befriend the dragons with trust. They'll only give a dragon scratches after asking permission that is telegraphed in their body language.

The riders respect dragons and there are so many little subtle things which show how they never treat these incredible amazing beings as if they are animals, they always treat them as individuals. As equals.

I love Httyd so much like you have no idea.

[howtodrawyourdragon]

Hiccup still gets a lot of criticism for his decisions in Httyd 2, but I feel like they make sense and it's because of the tv-shows.

He doesn't want to be chief?

Well, he just spent a whole year mapping the world outside of the Archipelago, that's a lot of freedom. So of course, he doesn't know who he is now and doesn't think his father's lifestyle fits with him.

And in that year, he almost did become chief when Stoick almost died. In that scene when Spitelout is sent out specifically to bring Hiccup home to succeed his dying father, they already call him chief! This, despite Hiccup's plea towards Spitelout to not say it.

Chiefdom for Hiccup means losing his father. (Which is exactly how he ended up becoming chief, too)

He thinks he can change Drago's Mind?

Of course, he does! Alvin switched sides, Dagur switched sides, Viggo saw dragons as something more. And let's not forget Stoick and his entire village, including Astrid and his friends.

In a way, he changed Mala's mind, too.

In a way, he changed the minds of the dragons about humans.

He tries to end a war by talking to a warmonger?

Again, of course, he does. He ended their war with the dragons, fought in a war with the Outcasts, then the Berserker, then the Hunters, then the Flyers.

Of course, he thinks he's just as capable of making the most responsible calls in war when he has fought in several ever since he was 15. This, although Stoick has decades more experience and actually met Drago before.

Not to mention that all of the bloodshed was on the side of the enemy, and RttE confirms this. Hunters and Flyers are dying in those battles.

If anything, Hiccup talking to Drago first is him giving Drago a chance to save himself and his men. Something Astrid pretty much confirms when she threatens Drago that he better not lay a hand on them or Hiccup and Toothless will blow his fleet to splinters.

Which, in the tv-shows, they do. And then Drago did end up dead at the end of the movie.

[rosiethedragongeek]

I love the fact that Hiccup has a whole little speech that he periodically gives Astrid to remind her that the twins serve a purpose like what else does he have to constantly remind them of

The 'Snotlout is clearly going through something rn just let him be stupid' speech

The 'Stop telling Tuffnut you're gonna eat Chicken, I can only handle him sobbing in my hut for so long' speech

The 'Stop jumping out at Fishlegs at night' speech

The 'Don't interrupt Astrid while she's throwing axes bc I can't save you' speech

The 'No you CANNOT shove the dragon eye up your ass no matter HOW MUCH you want to see if the projection scome outof your mouth' speech (that one's mostly for Tuffnut)

[hiccuphitdabong]

Headcannon that Fishlegs gives Hiccup piggyback rides when his leg is hurting

[smallfrogpleasedtomeetyou]

thawfest.

[saturnniidae]

Lying to myself everytime Hiccup sends a terror mail in Rtte. Idc about coloration differences, it is Sharpshot. Sharpshot didn't just disappear after Dob.

Hiccup still has him, and loves him, and takes care of him. And he sits on Toothless' head and they play together sometimes but also have an incredibly one-sided rivalry centered around trying to impress Hiccup. And he bothers Hiccup while he's working because he likes laying on his desk like a cat. And for all the shit he gives them, he loves Hiccup and Toothless so much and they're like a little family. He's still there guys he's just chilling in Toothless' saddlebag most of the time.

The series may have forgotten about Sharpshot, but I have not. He is still there and so are all the other dragon riders' trained terrors.

[howtowhumpyourhiccup]

If you think about it, Hiccstrid is an angry couple. Except, Hiccup is angry with himself and Astrid is angry with the world.

[revive-the-fandom]

I count 12 medals here, & he’s like 15 at this point so if thawfest happens once a year (in spring, when it thaws) … the kids start competing when they’re 3 years old?

[iswateredible]

can't properly scan my sketchbook rn cause I'm traveling, but that also means I'll hopefully have more time to sketch!!

I wanna try and color this one and add dialogue, but can we appreciate the bicon siblings dressing alt even in summer, they're probably baking under the sun wearing all this black but ✨ it's about the commitment ✨

[sarnai4]

The (Dis)Agreeable

I'm not sure if this is a hot take or not, but it goes against some of the things implied in the series (spoilers for RTTE). I don't think Oswald the Agreeable was a good father.

The show paints him as this peaceful, friendly man who never wanted wars and loved his kids. Sounds great, but I find contradicting evidence in the episodes.

There is something to be said about young Dagur's conduct with people. I get it that he's got probably a cocktail of mental illnesses, but that doesn't mean that he's incapable of acting in nonviolent ways. We see him do just that later. So, why was he not told as a kid, "No, don't try to drown your friends. That's mean and dangerous. Don't put people in cages and feed them cod heads." etc.? I feel like the first part at least was never told to him because he didn't act like him almost drowning Hiccup was in fact a scary experience for the younger Viking. Not saying that Oswald needed to watch his every move, but Dagur isn't a shy person. He's noticeable. If he's doing something (assuming his goal isn't to be sneaky, which it didn't seem to be with that drowning attempt), you're going to see/feel/hear him. Why not just sit him down and explain what's right and wrong? Dagur recalls being told to not do things like chase chickens and have axes, but I'm not sure if there's really a reason given behind it vs just knowing that his father didn't want him to do that.

And then there's Ansson. If you've read my previous post, you know I think he's at least 8 years older than Dagur. That makes me wonder where Oswald was during all that. This begins tying into another point. His relationship with Dagur must have been pretty bad if the other Berserkers actually thought Dagur killed him. Aside from the implausibility of Hiccup being able to, if he said he killed Stoick, people would be shocked because they know the two Vikings care about one another. No one seemed to bat an eye with this. "Dagur killed his old man? Yeah, figured that was just a matter of time." What were their interactions like if something so violent just made sense? To address a counterargument, maybe they just believed this because of Dagur being who he is. Fair, but here is the major issue: they never should have been able to think Dagur killed Oswald.

Where did Oswald go? We know he shipwrecked on Vanaheim, but where was he headed and why? Clearly, Dagur wasn't with him if he got lost out on sea. Dagur also didn't know where he was. No one else did either. Therefore, it implies that Oswald left home without telling anyone. I doubt this was to sign a treaty since that was stated that he'd bring Dagur along and I'm assuming the other Berserkers would know. So, why did Oswald suddenly leave without telling anyone where he was going? As both a father and chief, that's irresponsible. They have 50k soldiers, so who knows how many overall Vikings they have when you take into account kids, the elderly, and whoever just wasn't a soldier? Oswald left Dagur with all of these people. It's obvious that the boy wasn't ready. We saw how well that first year of being a chief went. At least, I'd expect him to tell someone, but no one knew. This sounds like he didn't just go out, he left. Oswald left and had no intention of coming back.

Then, you have "The Search for Oswald...and Chicken." There are a few things which are said here hat bother me. The letter itself was strange since Oswald mentioned Dagur protecting Heather even though she was a small child when she was lost and given the annual nature of the treaty visits, Oswald would have left long after she was missing. I think this is just a case of a plot hole that no one caught, but if we make it canonical, it's him fantasizing about his preferred life. He might have gone mad on that island. I can think of no other reason for him to write a letter about and to the daughter he'd no longer had on their home for years. Along that line of thinking, I doubt we can trust that his positive words to his son were genuine as opposed to being due to his false memories. Even in another part of the letter, it's sad because he mentions Dagur growing out of his "crazy, destructive" phase/stage. Dagur sort of gives a sheepish smile and it's played as a joke, but that's really sad. His son is mentally ill and he's just hoping he grows out of it like it's a papier-mache phase.

But what's the saddest part to me is Dagur's thoughts and beliefs regarding his father. After the corpse is found, Hiccup says, "He loved you" and Dagur responds, "I guess we'll never know." That is heartbreaking to me. Hiccup could have said, "He'd forgive you" or "He'd understand" and I would accept Dagur's words. That would be fine. With someone dead, you have no way of truly knowing if they'd understand why you did something or if they'd agree. That said, you should know that someone loves you. It's not something you should need to confirm when the person in question is a parent. I know this happens in real life, but a healthy parent-child bond should have both parties know, "Yeah, they love me. Even if we disagree, we love each other." Dagur makes it explicitly clear that he and Oswald don't have that type of relationship since he didn't know if Oswald loved him.

Therefore, between not being a teacher or protector in Dagur's childhood, having a relationship that feasibly could have ended in patricide, abandoning his son to lead tens of thousands of Vikings, believing his mental state was a temporary inconvenience, and not making letting it be known that he was loved, I believe that Oswald might have been agreeable, but he also was a bad father.

[dragonnnfly]

Tuffnut, texting Hiccup: Hiccup! help I’m being kidnapped!

Hiccup: Where are you?

Tuffnut: I’m with some strange person in a car. Help

Hiccup: I’ll call Ruffnut

Ruffnut, answering her phone: Y’ello

Hiccup: Where’s Tuffnut? He texted me that he was being kidnapped

Ruffnut: Tuffnut? Whaddya mean, he’s right next to me-

Ruffnut:

Ruffnut: I’ll call you back *hangs up*

Ruffnut: MY NEW HAIRCUT ISNT THAT BAD

Tuffnut: WHO ARE YOU?!

[000marie198]

Hiccup 'doesn't-have-siblings-but-exhibits-full-on sibling-vibes-around-Snotlout, Dagur, Heather & the twins' Haddock

[howtodrawyourdragon]

Thinking about how Hiccup is considered The Dragon Rider by friend and foe alike, including his Dragon Riders.

Thinking about how he's the Dragon Master. Even when facing Drago Bludfist, the other Riders were fearless because they knew Hiccup and Toothless ("The best Dragon Master this world has ever seen!") were coming.

About how Hiccup trained the Riders' dragons and he retains that relationship all throughout RoB through RttE. How he's still considered the best rider and trainer, though he has taught many others his tricks and skills. He's even indirectly helped teach Heather!

The Riders consider the Hand Thing his Hand Thing! Before the twins ask if they can do it, too, in RttE, no one thought they could do that as well.

Heather and Astrid talk about how he can train any dragon minus a few. Mala, Queen of the Defenders, believes only Hiccup can truly train a dragon.

And when Hiccup returns home in Httyd 2, the people cheer because Berk's Pride has come home and he'll deal with Drago for them.

Tonight, I'm just having a lot of feelings about the boy who no one thought would be anything other than a nuisance (they literally chose a dangerous possibly very fatal and potentially USELESS expedition over spending time with Hiccup!) becoming so revered by almost anyone he knows.

[rosiethedragongeek]

The twins are SO smart. They successfully sneak into a MASSIVE dragon hunter operation, Ruff managed to steal that key by faking an emotional breakdown and confuse Viggo about when they would attack, they're constantly teaching the gang new words and concepts, they speak at LEAST 3 languages, they've written at LEAST one book that was on the top of some best seller list somewhere, they've memorized so many random facts that they will never need, they've managed to learn how to fly through the air and do BATTLE while working together with each other AND both heads of their dragon as ONE UNIT