#episode: syren

[science-fantasy-superheroes]

(E)GG AU: Fu’s Story

One day, Wayzz sensed the Peacock cracking. He couldn’t tell exactly where it was (a precaution to protect against bad Guardians), just that it was in Paris. Fu transformed, intending to handle it himself, but quickly realized he was too old to wield the Miraculous.

(As kids lack maturity and the elderly have lived long enough to reach insanity, the Miraculous are designed so that holders outside of their “prime” can only use a power once per recharge (without the use of spells). Due to the effects of aging, elderly holders typically also experience loss of agility.)

Knowing he’d have to trust another holder again, he traveled to Paris to start seeking out new heroes.

(His experiences during The Great War influenced him to only release the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous, be adamant about not revealing their identities to anyone, and (partly influenced by his upbringing in the GO) seek out teen heroes: old enough to handle the power (though limited if he needed to relinquish it), but also too young to easily pack up and go (unlike the couple of adults who’d tried that). (Furthermore, though he had an understanding of modern revelations about youth, thus also being against teen marriage, it was still through an ancient lens. So, though he was aware of how stressful and demanding heroism and a double life would be, if they proved to be “mature”, he viewed placing the responsibility and high expectations on teens just the same as he would with a young adult.))

By the time the Butterfly was activated with nefarious intentions, he was prepared to give his top picks a final test just to double-check. (He’d admit he was more than a bit biased in picking Adrien, but how could he deny someone who only wished for freedom? Besides, as the boy was beloved by all, it would spare Plagg from having to once again deal with his power being used to tear down all his holder’s enemies. (Even still, the (subconscious) influence of The Great War made him hesitant to reveal his existence to the Cat holder (and the Ladybug holder by extension).))

Marinette and Adrien did even better than he expected, despite the first-time hiccup. He surely thought Marinette would quit after forgetting to purify the akuma, but she got back out there (which is far more than he could expect from himself) and exceeded all his expectations. He felt terrible for just throwing them into the fire, but he couldn’t risk connecting them to him. It wasn’t like he would be a good guide anyway, especially not above ancient beings.

But fate had other plans (yes, eventually meeting Adrien, but that would be later): Marinette brought the Grimoire to him, and gave him hope. Perhaps false, but hope nonetheless. The Grimoire had been left back at the temple, and if it survived, maybe some of the Guardians survived too. Much better suited for passing on the legacy than he was. Even still, Marinette certainly had the kwamis’ favor and the skill for it, maybe it was time to pass his knowledge on before time caught up with him. Passing on the Turtle (however temporary) must’ve been his first hint.

(He refers to his box as the “Chinese Miracle Box” because it’s the last box from the Chinese temple. With all the cross-culture influences, box trading, and even some Miraculous swaps between boxes, most of the boxes only represented awkward mash-ups of cultures.)

Getting sick was a stark reminder of his mortality. He wasn’t all that sick, he knew he wasn’t. He would recover just fine, probably in a few days and the medicine would quell his symptoms in the meantime. But… thinking about if he was that sick, the possibility of him later becoming that sick… It left him in the kind of mental anguish that hurt him physically. He was glad the doctor brushed it off as him being dramatic– he was! And neither she nor Marinette deserved to put up with his problems. But… still… He wanted to see Marianne again. He wanted to be with her again. And he completely understood if she didn’t want to after he left her behind for so long, but she deserved closure for why; that she did nothing wrong. And his anxiety pressured him to tell her now, so he asked Marinette to pass on his letter to her.

Marianne knew Fu’s letter was off. She knew reading to the end would clear everything up. It was just… all the talk of being “too late”… it sounded like the words of someone… No. No! It had to be something more bearable! It had to be… He didn’t love her anymore! Yes! Something she could get over. After all, they hadn’t seen each other in years. It would be pretty messed up that he sent Ladybug to deliver his message instead of coming in person to say so, but that’s a much better option than he physically couldn’t. Because he could! He’s fine! He’s alive! He’s not…! He’s not… He just doesn’t love her anymore because they haven’t seen each other in so long…

“Backwarder… You want to go back and make up for lost time.”

Oh, how she did. Maybe… Maybe they would’ve had more time before… before… Just become akumatized and you won’t have to think about it.

…

Why did she act so rashly? Now she and Fu were going to lose even more time together because she couldn’t just read to the end… That’s okay. He’s okay. That’s what’s important to her. She missed Fu, but if Ladybug was with him, that means he’s not alone. And she has Mr. Ramier, so she isn’t either. They’re okay.

It hurt Fu to lose Marianne again, but he should’ve known he was asking too much. He was supposed to be focused on helping Marinette become a Guardian, not his late-life romance. Though it was nice to know Marianne was okay.

[In this version of the Butterfly, Hawkmoth’s empathy is so bad, he constantly misreads feelings/doesn’t bother to look deeper into buried feelings (often just makes stuff up when he can’t tell at all). (There are many akuma I apply this idea to, but that’s a discussion for another post.)]

When he heard of the new exhibit from China, he was curious about what was dug up in his first home, and decided to tune in to the news broadcast. He never knew whether or not that had been a good thing.

He couldn’t leave her to fix his mistakes again. Not this one. He knew Marinette. He knew she would do everything she could to stop it. But she couldn’t. And she would die trying. After Adrien sacrificed himself first. No. He would handle this himself. He’d take their Miraculous to keep them out of danger and lead that beast away from everyone. He’d lead it all the way back to China and drown with it in a volcano if he had to. He would not– could not– let it destroy innocent people all over again. Perhaps Hawkmoth and Mayura would leave Paris to avoid getting their Miraculous eaten, or simply because he took the Ladybug and Cat with him. Maybe he could take them down with that beast. If he couldn’t, maybe the other heroes Marinette and Adrien met could. He just had to get that beast away from Paris. Away from Marinette and Adrien and Marianne. He had to.

…

He really shouldn’t have underestimated Marinette. She was an incredible Ladybug, and once again, she proved she’d earned her spot among the legendary heroes. He hoped he wasn’t too insulting in his doubt. The restoration of the temple, the Guardians, Su-Han, the news brought him to tears. But he knew he had to remain in Paris. Hawkmoth and Mayura were his responsibility. Besides, he was surely exiled now that Su-Han was back to explain what Fu had done. Someone would certainly come for the box, and he would give it up, but he would still stay to deal with the consequences of the attacking akumatized victims and sentimonsters.

(He even got his magic compass, and other assorted treats, back from the staff. His staff which was now at the Louvre. He allowed Ladybug to give it to them, as it was beautiful and well-designed and a piece of his history that should be shared with the world. Though he had mixed feelings about giving it to the same people who literally dug up his trauma.)

He never wanted to make Marinette the Guardian like this. If she didn’t need the magic he was passing onto her, he wouldn’t have put the burden on her at all. She didn’t need the stress. She was going through so much already. But someone would come for the box, and they could help her. He just hoped she’d be okay in the meantime.

…

It was strange not having memory. He didn’t even have enough to miss it. A courtesy of fate, he supposed. He felt bad not recognizing the people who apparently knew him, but they were so kind, he could hardly be upset by the idea of getting to know them again. Especially Marianne. He didn’t know why, but he felt so safe with her, like he could tell her anything. Maybe he used to.

Marianne thought she would’ve been more upset seeing Fu without his memories, but he looked so… relaxed. It was the first time she saw him without the weight of the world in his eyes. It was in an admittedly tragic way, but he was at peace. And she found herself just happy to be with him again. That they could be in peace.

Fu was different, of course. Sort of in the way that she felt like she was making a new friend (which she believed was only fair, as Fu was experiencing the same but to an even higher degree). Yet, he wasn’t as much of a “blank slate” as she had initially worried, and still retained many of his old habits and sense of morals. Just more relaxed, and less nervous. She supposed that made sense; the memories weren’t gone, even if he couldn’t access them. It would take some getting used to, he really wasn’t her old friend anymore, but she had no complaints, she liked her new friend too.

Masterlist

[bittersweetresilience]

Adrien Agreste and Borderline Personality Disorder

DISCLAIMER: I've been a bit low on spoons this week, so I haven't gathered as much evidence as I probably could have. Also, I am but a humble student in clinical psychology. This is mainly a thought compilation for @moonieratty!

To introduce the topic, without going into it too much, personality is described by features and behavioral patterns, or traits, consistent across situations and across time. Personality disorders are therefore enduring patterns of highly maladaptive traits evaluated in personal and sociocultural context (Dozois, 2019, p. 290).

Like other disorders, personality disorders have diagnostic criteria. The DSM is used primarily for diagnosis in the US and Canada while the ICD is used more widely in Europe and other places. I'm more familiar with the DSM, but I've included a brief section on the ICD to be comprehensive. It ended up a bit longer than anticipated, so let's go below the cut. Warning for discussions of abuse, self harm, and suicide, and a brief mention of substance use.

Overview of Borderline Personality Disorder

BPD is prevalent in a small percentage of the population, about 1-2% by varying estimates, and is characterized by instability across domains of emotions, identity, interpersonal relationships, and behavior. Its onset is usually in late adolescence or early adulthood and symptoms may diminish with age, after one's thirties or forties, especially with therapeutic intervention. Along with ASPD, it has been the focus of a lot of clinical research; it is unfortunately associated with high rates of non-suicidal self-injury and suicide (APA, 2022, pp. 754–755; Dozois, 2019, pp. 308–309).

Etiological factors for BPD include both biological and environmental disturbances. Of note to our discussion is the heightened risk for BPD in cases of child abuse or neglect, as well as growing up with another family member with a serious mental health condition (NHS, 2022). It's been well established that Gabriel is emotionally neglectful if not outright abusive toward Adrien in multiple ways, so this is a clear risk factor. In addition, although I won't argue definitively for Gabriel having a psychological condition, he did keep Emilie's body in the basement, so there is clearly some kind of disturbance going on.

From a cognitive-behavioral perspective, Linehan argues that BPD stems from families who consistently invalidate childhood emotional experiences and "oversimplify the ease with which life's problems can be solved," which may cause children to learn to seek attention and communicate with others through emotional outbursts (Dozois, 2019, p. 297). This rings true for Adrien and Gabriel as well.

I have to apologize for my son, Ladybug, he's like his mother. Way too overly dramatic. (Jackady)

It doesn't seem like this is the first time Gabriel has thought this, and labeling an emotional reaction as being overly dramatic is very much invalidation of it. As for emotional outbursts, Adrien has had quite a few, mostly as Chat Noir. More on this later.

To round out this first section, attachment theory proposes a connection between poor parent-child attachments and BPD relationship difficulties. Specifically, maladaptive behavior in relationships may stem from childhood development of an anxious-ambivalent attachment style, where intense fears of abandonment interfere with a strong desire for intimacy (Dozois, 2019, p. 310). You can clearly see this in Chat Noir's relationship with Ladybug, and I'm sure other people have discussed Adrien's attachment style more in depth, but suffice to say I think this is an apt description.

Argument from DSM-5-TR

In the DSM, personality disorders are primarily diagnosed on a categorical model. There are a few general criteria which I won't be going into, but I will highlight that personality disorders are stable and pervasive, and would be diagnosed only if they were leading to significant distress or dysfunction. Adrien's mental state is not great, so the latter shouldn't be a problem, but this show does not always pay attention to consistency, so I'm going to be speculating some. Everything in this section is cited to the relevant DSM entry unless otherwise stated.

The DSM characterizes BPD with instability in relationships, self image, and affects, as well as marked impulsivity. It has no exclusion criteria, so BPD can be and frequently is comorbid with other disorders like mood disorders, PTSD, and ADHD. Of the below criteria, five need to be met in order for a diagnosis to be made.

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Hey, where're you going? . . . So you're allowed to know her true identity, but I'm not? (Syren)

You're not really replacing me with a turtle, are you? (Anansi)

A lot of people have delved into Adrien's abandonment issues, which feature most prominently in his relationship with Ladybug. His fears of being replaced result in him seeking reassurance from Ladybug, and he can lash out if he does not receive the response he hopes for. Ladybug is his world, and he wants to be hers, so anything infringing on that feels to him like a threat of being abandoned, and he does not like it very much.

Impulsive behaviors like giving up his ring can be interpreted under this lens: he can avoid abandonment by doing the abandoning first. Then it will be him leaving, and not the other way around.

I also interpret Adrien's nightmare (Le Marchand de Sable) as being a fear of being alone as much as it is a fear of being trapped.

Unstable and intense interpersonal relationships alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

We'll be united, more powerful and free. We'll defeat Hawk Moth, then we can both run away to an island! Far away from everything. We will live off nothing but fruits, and we will have a little pet hamster and we will name it— (Le Patineur)

I just can't do this anymore. I give up… on everything. Even you . . . If I become Chat Noir again, Ladybug will just end up rejecting me, over and over. (Kuro Neko)

Even though Adrien mostly keeps his head on straight regarding what he's owed and not owed by other people, his relationship with Ladybug is full of highs and lows. He thinks Ladybug is the most amazing girl, but this can recoil quickly into feeling as though Ladybug doesn't care about him enough or isn't meeting his needs.

Furthermore, he developed this idealization of Ladybug as a potential lover or caregiver at one of their first meetings (Cœur de Pierre), and continually sought to spend time together and share the intimate details of their secret identities early on. These are all common to individuals with BPD, as is the switch from idealization to feeling as if the other person "does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not 'there' enough." Ladybug is the only person Adrien consistently projects this instability and intensity on, which might be something interesting to explore.

Identity disturbance: unstable self image or sense of self

When I was a kid, I always wanted to be what my parents wanted me to be! (Exauceur)

But, does that mean Chat Noir is who I really am? Deep down inside? (Kuro Neko)

With all the secret identities, it isn't surprising that Adrien fits this criterion, but canon even explicitly draws a link between Adrien's unstable sense of self and his childhood experiences. He doesn't know who he is, and he distracts from this by being Chat Noir, only to struggle even more when he feels useless and underlooked as his hero self. His behavior shifts dramatically between trying to prove himself with grand gestures and refusing to participate or lashing out. There is definitely something to discuss on this front.

Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas

Giving you some extra time . . . I trust you to bring me back, m'lady. (Gamer 2.0)

There are only two liars left in Paris and one of them knows the ultimate way to catch her attention . . . Crazy about you, m'lady. (Mensonge)

This is walking a thin line between impulsivity and suicidal behavior, which would be excluded from this criterion, but I'll list self sacrifice here because I can see an argument for Chat Noir's impulsive behaviors being out of love or the desire to be useful. There may still be some self injurious intent or euphoria, but Chat Noir does have faith in Ladybug to bring him back eventually. Nevertheless, this is impulsive and unhealthy. Chat Noir jumps too quickly to this option to have thought it through.

I can't think of another area, because Adrien isn't old enough for reckless driving, spending, substance use, or sex. This is also a kids' show. Just presenting these options for fanfiction writers out there.

Recurrent suicidal or self mutilating behavior, gestures, or threats

I... I don't know what to do! (Chat Blanc)

This is all our fault . . . Cataclysm. (Culpabysse)

By itself, what happened in Chat Blanc would not be solid evidence, as that was an unprecedentedly traumatic situation. Combined with Culpabysse, though, there is a strong case to be made for at least passive suicidality for this to be able to come up as an option.

You could also interpret the self sacrifice in this category. Suicidal behavior in individuals with BPD is often preempted by fears of rejection or abandonment, so an interesting analysis could be made on this front.

Affective instability due to marked reactivity of mood

He's still only thinking of himself! I just want this terrible day to be over and done with! I hate Christmas! (Pire Noël)

Sorry! Sorry! I didn't mean to make you so mad. I get it. You're sick of me . . . No one can help me, Kagami. (Glaciator 2)

Adrien's prolonged episodes of anger and despair reflect a high reactivity to emotional stressors, especially interpersonal ones. In general, he just doesn't feel very well unless something is actively bringing him joy. Most of his outbursts are brief, though, and I will discuss them as part of a later criterion.

Chronic feelings of emptiness

I'm not Adrien, so I wouldn't know if this is the case, but I can say he has experienced at least one depressive episode (Kuro Neko) and emptiness would not be unfamiliar. You can look at him and decide.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger

How was your amazing evening with your "friends"? . . . What do you think? (Glaciator)

Why not? No one'll know if I quit. No one'll care! (Syren)

A two-person plan?! There's only one two-person plan, and that's Ladybug and me! (Sentibulleur)

Give me a break, Miss "I can't even come up with a superhero name"! (Hack-San)

Anger in individuals with BPD can manifest as bitterness, sarcasm, or recurrent verbal outbursts, which Chat Noir absolutely exemplifies. These outbursts are often followed by feelings of shame or guilt and contribute to a feeling of being bad. Chat Noir apologizes after being harsh in Glaciator, and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt badly about the other times. Again, these outbursts are often precipitated by interpersonal fears and perceived threats of abandonment. Unlike other symptoms, this specific one tends to be unique to BPD.

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociation

I cannot recall any evidence for this but headcanon away, my friends.

All in all, I think Adrien has a strong case for BPD presentation according to the DSM. Canon is not always consistent, but I think it presents an interesting and mostly coherent narrative for this lens. From this perspective, Adrien's behavior reflects a deep intolerance of being alone and a dependence on other people to define the self.

As a corollary, BPD behavioral patterns are frequently linked to self sabotage and self undermining right when a goal is about to be realized, which could manifest as dropping out of school right before graduating or ending a relationship when it seems to be going well. Food for thought. Individuals with BPD may also feel more secure with transitional objects like pets than with interpersonal relationships, which could reflect in Adrien's relationship with Plagg.

To add some subjective understanding to this clinical mumbo jumbo, I've added a source of genuine BPD experiences below (Mind, 2022).

Argument from ICD-11

With the release of the ICD-11, a dimensional model for diagnosis of personality disorders became the new standard. What this means is that individuals are no longer labeled as having 'histrionic' or 'dependent' or, indeed, 'borderline' personality disorders, but are rather assessed as having any form of personality disorder on a sliding scale of severity and with trait domain specifiers (Swales, 2022). To put it more simply, people are diagnosed only with a general personality disorder or personality difficulty which can be optionally specified as deviating on one of the personality traits in the Big Five model, which is well established in personality psychology.

This move has several benefits. Stigmatization related to particular personality disorders can be reduced, and differential diagnosis and comorbidity between personality disorders becomes irrelevant. However, people retain access to treatment and support. Evidence-based treatments like dialectical behavior therapy are particularly well established and crucial for BPD; for this pragmatic purpose, the ICD contains one additional specifier for borderline pattern personality disorder (Bach et al., 2022; Swales, 2022).

The DSM and ICD are designed to be compatible with each other in many ways, and in this case, the borderline specifier in the ICD is directly lifted from the criterion of the DSM (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5). Based on our previous discussion, Adrien would be equally qualified for a diagnosis in France. I would likely describe his personality disorder with moderate severity, where multiple areas of functioning are affected and self harming behaviors may be present, but not all areas or relationships may be equally impacted and traits are not as rigid and inflexible (WHO, 2023, 6D10.0–6D10.2).

Interestingly, the ICD includes three additional manifestations of borderline pattern which are optional and may vary across time (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5).

A view of the self as inadequate, bad, guilty, disgusting, and contemptible

An experience of the self as profoundly different and isolated from other people; a painful sense of alienation and pervasive loneliness

Proneness to rejection hypersensitivity; problems in establishing and maintaining appropriate levels of trust in relationships; frequent misinterpretation of social signals

I'm fascinated by the number of adjectives in here. I simplified very slightly, as I did with the DSM criteria, but I had to keep all these adjectives. Anyway, I won't elaborate for too many more paragraphs, so let's say sentimonster moment and leave it at that. I will spare you my mirrored Félix essay. For now.

Qualifications and Limitations

First of all, Adrien is a teenager. The distinguishing factor between a personality disorder and regular adolescent difficulties would be longevity and identity concerns beyond his developmental phase (APA, 2022, p. 758). Second of all, Adrien has a uniquely terrible home life and magical problems. Some of his behaviors could be normal considering his experiences and sociocultural context, and this matters when it comes to psychological evaluation. Take everything with a grain of salt!

More generally, the categorical model of the DSM has several issues, not to mention diagnostic issues related to culture, gender, and stigma. Some but not all of these issues are addressed by the dimensional model it includes in a later section, which shares theoretical foundations with the model of personality disorders in the ICD. Even so, issues remain. Diagnosis, access to treatment, and political statements are intrinsically linked in complex ways. I won't get into all of the nuances, but be safe, remember this is a fictional character, and keep an open mind.

REFERENCES:

American Psychiatric Association. (2022). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed., text rev.). https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425787

Bach, B., Kramer, U., Doering, S., di Giacomo, E., Hutsebaut, J., Kaera, A., De Panfilis, C., Schmahl, C., Swales, M., Taubner, S., & Renneberg, B. (2022). The ICD-11 classification of personality disorders: A European perspective on challenges and opportunities. Borderline Personality Disorder and Emotion Dysregulation, 9(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40479-022-00182-0

Dozois, D. J. A. (2019). Abnormal psychology: Perspectives (6th ed.). Pearson.

Mind. (2022, September). What does BPD feel like? https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/experiences-of-bpd/

National Health Service. (2022, November 4). Causes - Borderline personality disorder. https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/causes/

Swales, M. A. (2022). Personality disorder diagnoses in ICD-11: Transforming conceptualisations and practice. Clinical Psychology in Europe, 4(Special Issue). https://doi.org/10.32872/cpe.9635

World Health Organization. (2023). International statistical classification of diseases and related health problems (11th ed.). https://icd.who.int/

[therealtrashpanda]

So.. I gave derision another chance.

And... I still hate it so much.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Disclaimer in advance: I haven't watched season 4 or 5 in their entirety, nor do I intend to, so maybe I'm missing info. Most of my knowledge comes from lurking in the fandom.

Why do you think the show was seemingly allergic to allowing their main characters to make any sort of meaningful progress? At the end of season 1, Ladybug comes into possession of the Miraculous grimoire, a major clue that "Hey, Hawkmoth is probably Gabriel Agreste" and then the Collector immediately ends with her and Adrien placing him completely above suspicion (I actually don't mind this, it makes sense for Gabe to throw the two off the trail, but to the best of my knowledge, this is the only time the protagonists make any headway toward Hawk Moth's identity. I wish they had done more active investigation.)

The power up potions show up during Syren, except... they don't do much in the way of a "power up." They're used exceedingly sparingly, and really only let LB and CN compensate for environmental challenge. Nothing else, no actual evolution. This could've been a way to show LB getting more in sync with her powers, being able to create specific solutions to her problems. You could've had similar moments for Chat Noir, upgrade like the ranged cataclysm Chat Blanc could use, or something to do with bad luck. Instead, it was a cheap gimmick.

The temp heroes start getting called in beginning with Sapotis, except that most of them are called in because... you're here and I need this incredibly specific power, which you just so happen to be perfectly suited for. Shut up and do nothing follow orders. (The episode Party Crasher and King Monkey being the most egregious example, imo. Then again, i havent watched Penalteam, and I'm told that episode is far worse). The temp heroes don't really add anything to the plot (Save Rena suddenly being Ladybug's confidant, but that's a rant for another day.), except to cause conflict with CN, and they're all gone as of the Season 4 finale anyway.

Speaking of season 4, the charms. Finally, concrete progress, a way to limit hawkmoth, to cut him off from potential vic— wait what the hell is a megakuma? Why do this? What was the point? This is what I was talking about with Syren, Ladybug coming further into her powers, finally being able to start pushing Gabriel into a corner, and it's undone that same season. Apparently transmission is more powerful than creation, despite repeated assurances the Ladybug (and Marinette) are special.

And then there's the alliance rings. Why can Tomoe and Gabriel make these? No idea. What it means, though, is that LB and CN have no chance of reclaiming the lost miraculous, and just have to passively react to whatever the hell Monarch is up to... again.

I'm told that for the big finale, Marinette wasn't even the one to discover Gabriel's identity, Felix straight up told her, and then Gabriel won. He made his wish. The hero of the story failed to save the day, after doing practically nothing.

Whats extra annoying is that on the Villain side, Gabriel is absolutely allowed to push the status quo. First we get Scarlet Moth and mass akumatization, then the peacock comes out, then it gets fixed, and then Gabriel straight up steals all the Miraculous (save LB and CN's of course, and then they steal the rabbit back because the writers realized "time travelling villain" was a horrendous idea. And Felix is allowed to keep the Peacock, because ??? Gabriel has to my knowledge not given up any other power, before or since). And he's always held the power, he's never been at risk of losing his own miraculous because he doesn't need to go out in person, so why does he keep getting stronger and raising the stakes while the heroes can't do anything.

Sorry for being so long-winded, just... needed to get my thoughts out.

Put on your tinfoil hats, folks! We're gonna make some educated guesses as to what is going behind the scenes with Miraculous, but remember that these are, ultimately, guesses. I don't know the full story and I probably never well.

I've mentioned before that writing for TV can suck because you're not allowed pure creative freedom. There are a lot of hands in the pot limiting what you can do because TV shows cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to make. Some even cost millions. That means that final product needs to be considered commercially viable unless you're independently wealthy and have money to burn. This doesn't mean that passion projects can't be commercially viable, it just means that they're generally not approached with the idea that commercial viability is the most important thing.

Writing for children's shows can especially suck because you're heavily limited by the intended audience and by what large corporations deem acceptable for that intended audience. If you're not totally on board with keeping things Disney's version of kid-friendly, then you're not going to have a fun time.

This brings us to Miraculous.

I have often assumed that there were some wacky hi-jinks going on behind the scenes that would explain why the show is such a mess because I don't think that Miraculous is anyone's ideal version of the core concept. The wonderful @nixthelapin recently confirmed it for me by sending me a link to a translation of a lecture given by Miraculous' writing director.

In that interview, we get hard confirmation that the core members of the writing staff originally wanted to tell a darker story for adults or teens, which may explain all the random dark stuff that the show will include but totally fail to explore. We also got this:

Sebastien sold the Miraculous series to broadcasters as a formula show. A person gets angry, is akumatized, then marinette transforms into Ladybug then frees the person from the akumatization and… The End. It's also for this reason that Marinette tries to confess her love for Adrien in every episode, but is unable to do so. But he tried to go against what he had planned with TF1, by slipping little extra stories into certain episodes. Audiences were receptive to these slightly hidden stories. The TV channel even asked Sébastien if there really were hidden things in the series, but he denied everything.

So there you go. There's the hard confirmation of my theory. Miraculous was sold as a formula show so it's mostly written like a formula show, but the writers want to do more than a formula show, so they're adding in all these hints of something more, leading to massive fan frustration when those things don't lead to satisfying plots because, if they did, then it wouldn't be a formula show!

I get the temptation to do what they did, I really do, but I don't think that it was a good move. They would have been better off trying to make an awesome formula show or by being a lot more selective in what greater story elements they wanted to include. There are things that you can develop in formula shows while still keeping them formula shows. One thing that comes to mind is subtle character development. For example, they could have set up all of the temp heroes by giving them strong roles in one-off episodes. Roles that established their heroic potential. What you can't do well in formula shows is complex character development like the mess that was everything with Chloe and Lila.

This may also explain why we get baffling statements like this one from that interview that the writers gave at the end of season five:

Mélanie says that he "could become Chat Blanc" and the others add that even though he does not remember and has never lived it, Chat Blanc still has an influence on his actions.

Are they trying to let Chat Blanc effect the plot without breaking the formula element? If so, then dear gods, this is not how you add subtle continuity to your formula show!!! But that may be what they were trying to do here and in many other places. After all, we also get gems like this:

They note that Marinette's nightmare at the beginning is reminiscent of the episode Weredad from season 3. At this point, we can see that Marinette starts to understand who the villain is although she's not fully conscious of it yet. Thomas says that you can read it in two different ways: if you don't take the previous episode into account, she's starting to intuitively link things together but if you did see Representation, you know that she knows who Monarch really is.

I'm seeing a common thread. What about you?

While the writing director interview doesn't say this, I'm assuming stuff like the charms, the powerups, and the additional heroes come from a similar type of issue. My best guess is that these weren't elements that the writers wanted to add. They were things that marketing made them add to sell toys and so the writers shoehorned these items in because they couldn't find a way to organically fit these elements. I'm not blaming either side for that issue, btw. There isn't really a clear right side in the fight of creative freedom vs a show needing to make money to keep being made.

Since we're talking about that interview, I'll point out that we also got confirmation of another wacky writing rule to add to the list of poor writing choices:

The driving force behind the series is that there must always be a secret between Marinette and Adrien. The lovesquare can never be broken, otherwise there's no series.

"Our main couple can never be fully honest with each other or else there's no story" is a pretty awful rule, but it's what they're going with and that's a big part of why the love square is a mess. It's also a rule that I've often assumed was there based on the writing, but it's nice to get official confirmation of it.

None of this is to absolve the writers of blame nor is it to say that everything is their fault. The point here is that Miraculous' problems are a complex mess of everyone trying to make a good final product without being on the same page with what that final product should look like, resulting in a show that will never live up to the full potential of what anyone wanted for it.

[ilikekidsshows]

I've seen people say that it's also Cat Noir’s fault because he always lies and says he's fine when Ladybug does ask him if anything is wrong and she can't be expected to read his mind. Like in Hack-San and Rocketear. Can I ask your opinion on that?

---

Oh, yes, Cat Noir totally should have told Ladybug all about how Nino told his civilian self about how she let Nino and Alya know each other's secret identities from the start and how Nino trusted him with this info because he's Nino's best friend. That certainly wouldn't break any of the rules he in that episode learned Ladybug only enforces for him. Clearly Adrien didn't have any reason not to trust Ladybug's ability to listen to his criticism of her leadership. It's not like he didn't just find out he's being treated worse than the rest of the team for arbitrary reasons he doesn't know about.

Also, using Hack-San as an example is a really bad move, because we can see in that very episode where the problem is. Here's the thing: in Hack-San, Cat Noir does say what's bothering him, very easily and openly, to Scarabella. "As usual. No reason to keep the cat in the loop." Like, the problem is obviously Ladybug herself. And the problem is what I pointed out before. Every time Cat Noir does tell her something's bothering him, he does not, in fact, "always lie", she brushes him off (Prime Queen), treats his concerns as petty (Time Tagger) or has an excuse that just goes "but the rules" ready (Syren and Kwamibuster). Frankly, upsetting Cat Noir is even part of Ladybug's planning process sometimes and when it is, she treats it as a funny joke (Feast and Backwarder).

If Cat Noir feels like he can't be honest about his feelings with Ladybug, but can do so with others (like how he opened up to Marinette in Glaciator), the problem is more likely to be Ladybug. It's another thing Marinette has in common with Gabriel as Ladybug; Adrien doesn't want to tell either of them something they don't want to hear and what they don't want to hear is anything related to how he's feeling. Both Gabriel and Ladybug have repeatedly failed to treat his feelings as something valid instead of a nuisance to them personally.

Cat Noir can't actually trust Ladybug to treat him fairly, because she provably doesn't, and people are blaming him for not trusting her to treat him fairly when he is specifically bothered by said unfair treatment. This entire situation was created by Ladybug's treatment of Cat Noir, 100%. In my books the only thing Cat Noir did wrong was forgiving her in the S4 finale without first having her prove she would treat him fairly from then on, because she went right back to it in S5.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

This is more of a rant, but something that still baffles me about the show is, The Collector being the ONLY episode besides the last few S5 episodes where the main heroes get ANY significant leads on who the main villain might be (ignoring Chat Blanc and Ephemeral, because those were more Gabriel’s luck strike than anything).

I understand why they lifted suspicion from Gabriel initially, but Master Fu should’ve 100% doubted the “he can’t akumatize himself” claim at some point later on (seriously, Gabriel only had to make an akuma, detransform, and renounce Nooro), but with how incompetent he was as a Guardian, I’m surprised he could even make the “Grimoire owner = Hawk Moth” guess. And the MULTIPLE TIMES he went into the Agreste mansion, no progress. The LEAST he should’ve done is ask Adrien about the whole ordeal with the Grimoire - Adrien stealing it from his own father should at the very least raise some questions.

(A bit tangential, but a headcanon I have is, the suspicion falling on his father back then is what made him want to know what Ladybug is up to at all times - it doesn’t excuse his romantic advances towards Ladybug or his S4 behavior, but I think it did contribute heavily to the whole Syren fallout, even if some of it was just Adrien being grumpy for no good reason. Of course, this wasn’t Ladybug’s fault, and Adrien didn’t have the full context for the accusation when the audience did… so that’s another thing I blame on Master Fu, he seemingly never clarified anything to Adrien about the suspicion of Gabriel being a genocidal maniac)

And after that… the one to make progress is Mr. Plot Device Felix. In SEASON 4!!! And the only thing they could come up with was Felix seeing the miraculous because Gabriel’s tie slipped - a gigantic win button handed to him on a silver plate (though admittedly, his plan of tearing Gabriel’s pants was pretty cool).

Just remember, the main drama of Season 5 was the romance between Marinette and Adrien, and trying to stop the psychopath from recreating the world.

Really shows that our heroes have their priorities straight.

[zoe-oneesama]

Scarlet Lady AU Chapters Master Post - Season 3

Scarlet Lady Season 3

 Episode 21 - Vanisher

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16

 Episode 22 - Riposte

     1   2   3   4   5   6  7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15

  Episode 23 - Captain Hardrock

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17

 Episode 24 - Syren

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16

 Episode 25 - Dark Cupid

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16

 Intermission

     1   2

  Episode 26 - Animan

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12

 Episode 27 - Puppeteer

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14

 Episode 28 - Pixelator

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13

 Episode 29 - Guitar Villain

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14

 Episode 30 - Princess Fragrance

     1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15

Season 1 Master Post

Season 2 Master Post

Season 4 Master Post

Season 5 Master Post

[princess-of-the-corner]

So, within the movies the Black Cat & Ladybug basically bail on their own. But within the show are deliberately handed out.

Given Plagg's power doesn't seem strictly necessary in the way Miracle Cure does, this kind of feels like a risky/not great choice.

Is this something you ever feel the need to address in fics?

Do you mean in a 'Adrien feels unnecessary' way or in a 'why does the Ladybug get extra powers??' way?

In the former, I tend to adjust things so that there's more communication between the Ladybug and Black Cat Duo. Maybe not at first, so you still get episodes like Syren. But it's quickly resolved. So while Adrien feels a little like 'technically LB is more needed than I am', I usually keep him from feeling too bad about it. Though he will still take a hit for her because if she goes down they're fucked(LB doesn't like this but gets that it must be done).

In the latter, I do have it adjusted so that the Black Cat has an equal number of powers. It's just that its powers aren't currently applicable. Like, the gang currently has no use for Necromancy when fighting Hawkmoth, ya know?

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale’s Top Ten: Worst Akuma to deal with in real life.

Rules:

1. This is solely based on how difficult life would be if the akuma was active. (Rules being in the city in which the akuma is active)

2. Their effectiveness of getting the Miraculous is not a factor, but their ulterior motives and abilities are. (Basically I’m not going to be the Focus of their goal in most cases)

3.And when I say deal with, it’s being a normal person having to cope with the akuma present.

4. I will be rating them at their absolute worst/most powerful. As to get the most accurate rating

5. This is a personal list, but trust me I have given it some thought.

6. No sentimonsters, so Strikeback isn’t making the list

7. Tv episodes, Specials and movie only.

10. Robostus

Robostus is an akuma that’s slept on. Whether he is taking over all technology to make a giant mech, or hypnotizing people with screens he is a threat. And as a guy that works with technology, I’m in danger. Though in most cases it’s a direct inconvenience at best or I get put in tech storage at best.

9. Simpleman

An akuma that can impact the intellect of EVERYONE IN PARIS. That’s terrifying. And we saw first hand how his simple antics made everyone as smart as Cosmo from fairy odd parents.

My intellect would drop dramatically and I would probably die from being that stupid.

8. Queen Wasp/Miracle Queen

Honestly they are basically the same akuma with slightly different powers but the same method of control. My main gripe is being completely frozen by the venom which is just the worst feeling. Would I be made aware? Comotose? Plus I REALLY hate bees/wasps because of childhood stings. So no thank you. But it’s this low because it is still somehow avoidable.

7. Zombizou

My fear of intimacy aside, this is somehow worse because it spreads like a plague AND, imagine the allegations that would spawn from this. No thank you. That’s a hell no from me dawg.

It’s only this low because as long as I’m not stupid I can avoid it.

6. YanluoShi

Basically the stand in for all Giant akuma. The difference is his death laser kills and He was DECIMATING shanghai. All the other giant akuma were threats but Yanluoshi was just a bit more dangerous. And without heroes, shanghai would be SOL.

The Shanghai special really did have a heck of an akuma threat.

5. Akumatized Hawkmoth

For those who haven’t seen the movie. Hawkmoth akumatizes his own heart and basically gives himself even more power.

He had telekineses and was flinging rubble everywhere, he turned the water in La seine into lava by FLOATING OVER IT. He was creating storms just by existing.He decimated Paris, and civilians were in serious danger.

The only reason he is so low is because he was so focused on ladybug and chat noir and despite the damage to Paris, no one was seriously hurt (except ladybug and chat noir)

4. Syren

She Flooded Paris in minutes. It’s implied a LOT of people got caught in it. Like seriously. I can swim but even I don’t know how well I could handle a suddenly flooded city. At least with the previous entry there were more clear chances of survival. The next entrees have very little survival chances for me

3. Stormy weather

She can make Volcanic eruptions. Category 5 hurricanes. Stormy weather’s powers are easily one of the most dangerous in the series. If she was allowed to go all out, I would put her on Akumatized Hawkmoth in terms of raw power. Now we never see the full extent of it, but she can Manipulate the earth by creating natural disasters. She likely would have wiped Paris off the map if she got her way. So that’s why she’s here.

2. Bubbler

I know you all might think this is a joke, but I’m dead serious. The bubbler is probably the most dangerous direct threat. You know what his goal was? No more adults. Guess what, I’m an adult! And you know what else. He sent EVERY ADULT in a bubble to FLOAT IN SPACE. In the manga Tikki even points out that they would DIE up there. Bubbler combining my two greatest fears. Heights and tight spaces. Plus either I die of suffocation or the bubble pops and my body implodes from space. Or worse, I fall to my death at terminal velocity. My only hope is I can pop the bubble BEFORE then.

1. Chat blanc

You know what your chances of surviving chat blanc are? Zero. He blew up the moon and killed everyone. Either from the result of the moon being destroyed or his power Cataclysming everyone.

He was Alone, this implies everyone else is dead. Not even the heroes on the other side of the world could do ANYTHING!

Survival chance with the other entries was varied. But chat blanc the answer is 0.

[baenyth]

After too much stalling, I finally finished the other half of Miraculous Season 2. Here's my thoughts episode-by-episode:

Zombizou: The episode focused on Ms. Bustier. Honestly I get where she's coming from in that statement to Marinette. This is a world where people can become butt-ugly abominations because they felt upset, although I think Chloe still needs consequences for her actions as well as something like positive reinforcement. She had plenty consequences in season 1. Speaking of Chloe, That Asshole was wrong. There was clear intent for Chloedemption. Also could we at least have seen all that stuff Ms. Bustier does in previous episodes?

Syren: This was an episode the salters talked loads about, and honestly, I get where Adrien's coming from here. On a fundamental level the Ladybug and Black Cat miraculi aren't equals due to the Ladybug's magic reset button, but as one of the first Miraculous users, Adrien should've still been let in on the loop. Kid felt like he was useless, that Ladybug could save the day without his help. At the very least have Master Fu go one-on-one or have both kids show up while transformed or blindfolded. Also the water voices ticked me off, but that's relatively minor.

Frightningale: A fun character-of-the-week episode, especially since I'm fond of Clara Nightingale's constant rhymes and rhythm. She's dedicated to it and I love it. It's also good to see Chloe be an exceptional and talented dancer! It's good to see her having talents and interests that aren't just making people suffer!

Troublemaker: Another episode showing why I think Marinette and Adrien shouldn't date in any of their forms. I don't know enough about stalker shrines but I think Marinette's room is getting close enough to be one for Adrien. Though I'm pretty sure Adrien's seen worse or has been conditioned to not care, based on his reaction at the end. Still a shame that the local TV show had to live-film Marinette's room and beach her privacy in the local city-town of Paris while the real Paris has been converted to an amusement park for tourists. You got any other reasons why the population is so low? One more thing: I'm pretty sure the lack of ladybug-vision was more due to anxiety over losing one of her earrings and the difficulty of the villain more than anything else.

Anansi: I find the new heroes good, personally. They give more screentime to other characters. Also again with Adrien's insecurity about being useful. And I think this episode would've been over sooner if they noticed that Anansi was going to get herself akumatized over the stress and maybe just let her come or something. Or if they got Marinette to arm-wrestle her instead. Marinette has muscles, right?

Sandboy: A lore episode, mostly. The nightmares were funny for a second and I was a bit annoyed by the Akuma's voice, but that's small potatoes. I like how compared to season 1, where we would be given a bunch of development for Sandboy it's just explained to us afterwards while we instead get more time for lore.

Style Queen: Hawkmoth has a contender for the most evil character in the show. Audrey Bourgeois is the kind of person that would be made fun of in those Karen freakout videos. She cheats on her husband, neglects her daughter to the point of not remembering her name, fires people over the most minor inconveniences, and starts G-rated killing people over getting a seat in the second row. She needs to be cancelled, deplatformed, and Chloe needs a therapist and better role models. I really liked the split-second of Adrien looking shocked after Marinette told him he had the catwalk down, btw. Did he think his identity was outed there?

Queen Wasp: This is why teenagers shouldn't get superpowers. I get secondhand embarrassment watching them. Also Marinette What The Fuck why the Hell are you getting Chloe to bond with the Absolute Worst Person For Her

Maledictator: This is what happens when you make Chloe bond with a Chernobyl-level toxic influence, Marinette. In general this episode was funny, both intentionally and unintentionally. Everyone starts celebrating Chloe ditching Paris with her mother except Adrien because Chloe was her only friend even though she was a detriment to everyone else and suddenly Marinette feels bad because she worships Adrien. The first thing the villain of the week does is make Audrey stop being such a horrible person and later he made Chat Noir reach the limit of catboyness. It's like a Smiling Friends episode. Also it was cool to see Chloe's depths and self-loathing. Surely that won't be forgotten and Chloe will be given therapy so she can become a better person, right?

Reverser (Put here so it makes sense timeline-wise): It's Yaoi time. Except that Nathaniel is into Ladybug (who I assume he knows is Marinette) here and Marc is fine with that. Overall a good episode. Some nice humor, and Reverser's probably the best akuma design so far I love the paper stuff. Plus more info on the side characters and a spot of good humor, excellent!

Frozer: Ah, there's the Nathmarc. And explicit Julerose. And Marinette getting some idea that her fantasy of Adrien is unhealthy and shouldn't be followed. And Adrigami, albeit a bit one-sided. Quit pining over someone who doesn't love you and get with someone who does, kid. And a smidgeon of Marigami. And Adrien's bodyguard being his daddy in place of his father. And a pinch of me seeing what the salters were talking about with the girlsquad and them forcing Marinette and Adrien together. Or at least Alya and Mylene. I couldn't hear what Alix, Juleka, and Rose were saying, but they disagreed, right? At least one of them had to disagree, right?

Heroes' Day Two-Parter: Marinette you're being too hotheaded against Lila no you gotta be like Columbo. Also yet another Marinette Costanza moment. Otherwise not much to say here. It's the boss rush episode, it's the series finale, Alya managed to catch onto Nino being Carapace but still can't seem to connect the dots between Ladybug and Marinette, the Peacock Miraculous is introduced, and Natalie is on my suslist.

I might procrastinate again on the first half of season 3. The first episode deserves a post of it's own. It's the salt episode.

[ladyofthenoodle]

What do you mean Snake Noir was Cat Noir’s mental health peak?

ok so this question is in response to some tags i left a while ago and i’ve been putting off answering it so sorry it’s so late!!! part of the reason i put it off is i can’t remember whose meta i read originally discussing chat noir’s season 3 development and how snake noir represented him growing from his struggles and insecurities earlier in the season. so sorry to uncredited person that made me think about this initially and whose points i’m about to attempt to summarize.

in season 3, we start to see a greater imbalance between ladybug and chat noir‘s partnership. ladybug isn’t guardian yet, but she’s the one handing out the miraculous and allowed to work closely with fu. even as early as season 2, with syren, we see this affecting him and him becoming more unsure of his place on the team. then, in season 3, two more things happen to really exacerbate this: desperada and reflekdoll. in reflekdoll, he isn’t able to be mister bug without lady noire’s help, while she mostly does fine with his miraculous. in desperada, he fails to use the snake miraculous and hears ladybug say she doesn’t need chat noir. so he’s at a pretty low point.

but then, things start to get a little better. adrien gets his bro team up episode. he tries to move on romantically. he’s not basing his whole self worth on ladybug so much anymore. honestly i need to do a rewatch of season 3 to properly explain this because a lot of this development is subtle but it’s there. things are looking up!

and then, in the finale, ladybug needs him. she’s a mess.

and he gets it together. he picks up all her slack in that battle and he gets his second chance with the snake and he absolutely rocks it once he combines it with the cat! and it’s very symbolic that this battle he does so well in is while he’s wielding a miraculous he failed with before. and honestly after the season 3 finale, he rocks it every time he combines miraculous and he rocks the kwami swap too, so that level up in skill lasts… but as we all know, season 4 pretty much cratered his emotional health. hence snake noir being the peak 😭 shoutout to bunny noir and passion era mister bug though!

[bittersweetresilience]

a tribute to ladynoir and some of the most beautiful moments of the show. this took me so, so long but it was worth it.

of all the episodes considered, the ones which made it in or nearly did were climatika, lady wifi, chronogirl, rogercop, l'imposteur, dislocœur, le mime, animan, le marionnettiste, reflekta, jackady, volpina, origines, audimatrix, le hibou noir, glaciator, zombizou, syren, rossignoble, le marchand de sable, le combat des reines, le patineur, le jour des héros, pire noël, silence, oni-chan, miraculeur, oblivio, festin, gamer 2.0, ikari gozen, chat blanc, ladybug, la bataille des miraculous, vérité, mensonge, culpabysse, optigami, glaciator 2, hack-san, larme ultime, éphémère, kuro neko, la dernière attaque de papillombre, évolution, multiplication, destruction, jubilation, détermination, exaltation, le choix des kwamis, perfection, révolution, le dernier jour, les héros unis, and la légende de ladydragon. i may have forgotten one or two but the list is long enough.

[faiirygrahamdevanily]

🐞🐈‍⬛every miraculous episode in 10 words or less season 2

🐞🐈‍⬛links to the other seasons: season 1 post | season 2 post | season 3 post | season 4 post | season 5 post (links will be added once posts are published)

🐞🐈‍⬛If you count 11 words on some, count again <3

📘🦋Collector: adrien has his rapunzel realization moment but forgets everything 2sec later

🎙❤️Prime Queen: chat noir loving chouquettes & purring on live tv

🍨🌕Glaciator: rejecting eachother to go on a moon date together

🛎🧸Despair bear: a cute little teddy bear being hilarious

🥐🎸Troublemaker: penny and nathalie should open an underpaid assistant support group

👶����🍭Gigantitan: operation secret garden gettting ruined by a giant lollipop seeking baby

🍬🪽Befana: handmade lucky charm bracelets being THE best gift ever

🎼🎤Frightningale: you're right plagg, people are blind, VERY blind

👳🏻‍♀️⛲️Gorizilla: radiant carefree dreamy adrien the fragance

🤖🔋Robostus: markov being an absolute king for messing with hawkmoths security system

🦉🦸‍♂️The dark owl: new fear unlocked, principal turning into an owl

💄💋Zombiezou: teachers birthday escalating into a zombie apocalypse

🪀🚖Reverser: taxis being a public heath hazard

🤺🥈Riposte: adriens 'just a very good friend' knows NOTHING about fencing

🎹🧀Captain Hardrock: camembert you're the cheese of my dreams

🦊🪈Sapotis: pyjama party turning into alyas first akuma fight

🌊🧜‍♀️Syren: adrien playing with ladynoir dolls while ladybug is mixing power ups

❄️⛸️Frozer: inviting your 'very-good-friend' to your date will NOT go well

🦕✨️Queens Battle 1 - Style Queen: All's not gold that glitters, unless you're a gold glitter statue

🐝🪮Queens Battle 2 - Queen wasp: what do chloé and felix have in common? EVERYONE knows their hero identity

🧢🥖Anansi: carapace saving the day!

🐝🎉Malediktator: 'nobody is useless' defending chloé did NOT age well dear adrien

🧦⛓️Sandboy: plagg noo who turned you into a sock?!?

🦊🐞Heroes day 1 - Catalyst: silly delusional illusionist fox illusioning illusions again

🦋🦚Heroes day 2 - Mayura: hawkmoth changing his name, again

🎄🎅🏼Santa Claws: the boy that she secretely looooves is a sad lonely kitty

sneek peak season 3

🪄💋Puppeteer 2: match my freak and it's wax lips on wax lips

🐈‍⬛🤍Cat blanc: black kitty good, white kitty bad

[mystic-myrtille]

It always bother me that Lukanette/Luka salters (or antis) arguments are always like "Luka is so boring and bland" or "he's a gary stue" or "marinette treats Luka like a rebound and a plan b" basically any arguments that get your brain to stop braining

While them being the same people defending Adri/////chat and excusing/justifying his behaviour in episodes like Syren, Glaciator, Copycat, Lies, Hack-san, Kuro Neko, Chat blanc and etc and etc and etc You name it!

they even make Luka/Marinette Way too OOC in the salt fics (it's even worse since it's trash square endgame, they make Marinette a terrible gf or they make Luka an abusive, terrible toxic piece of shit)

Meanwhile us salters have every single good reasons to despise adri////chat and the L////S

we make salt fics that actually capture adrichat's mentality and behaviour

We even show how toxic the trash square is just like in canon

Lmao reminds me of how when season 4 started airing people were accusing Luka of being manipulative for asking Mari a question about their relationship when before they were complaining about how he lets her walk over him like a doormat with no backbone. At least he’s able to communicate

[ilikekidsshows]

Okay, so... I just realized something. No one told Marinette to keep information from Cat Noir until Syren. She was the one who didn't think to tell him about the spellbook, and she was the one who showed up to Fu's without him. In Volpina, The Collector, Robostus, and Sapotis, the idea of Cat Noir knowing is never brought up, mostly because Marinette and Fu don't talk about him. This makes Syren look really weird when you think about it. We suddenly have Fu saying that it isn't the right time and the episode acts like those aren't Marinette's secrets to tell, when this wasn't a factor in any of Fu's previous appearances.

Now, I'm not trying to defend Fu here. He's supposed to be the mentor here—even if Marinette doesn't think about Cat Noir, he has the responsibility to. It certainly is a writing choice is what I'm saying.

---

Considering the priorities of the writers, they most likely didn't think of it either. They tended to ignore Cat Noir's role in things even before the retool. It could be they totally forgot that Cat Noir was also a factor in the team dynamics. I'm guessing, depending on the writing order, ‘Syren’ could be the justification to keep him in the dark after they realized that Marinette keeping him in the dark of her own volition would make her look bad if anyone thought more deeply on it, and supposedly they figured the audience just wouldn’t question Fu’s authority in the matter, since he’s the “wise, old mentor” archetype. The writers tend to think giving some throwaway excuse is enough to justify everything they pull in the show.

That's why the show is so quick to give excuses every time Marinette does something hurtful towards others instead of just, you know, having her learn to not do it. The idea that people watching could disapprove of Marinette’s actions is too horrifying to them, she couldn't possibly do something actually wrong, so they try to explain everything away to justify her, either right away or retroactively when they realize fans actually have issues with something Marinette has done instead of just accepting that the hero protagonist can do no wrong by virtue of being the protagonist.

Miraculous, I feel, moralizes secret-keeping way too much. Alya and Marinette have a big debate on whether they’d reveal they were a hero to their respective bestie or not in ‘Sapotis’, where Marinette “wins” by virtue of Alya, under Ladybug's orders, not telling Marinette in her civilian persona that she’d become a hero by the end of the episode. The debate was “I’d tell you because I tell you everything” versus “I’d not tell you to keep you safe”, with Marinette acting kinda smug about it, like the writers considered this the ultimate “gotcha!” that the fandom is using for all secrets Marinette chooses to keep now.

“She’s keeping people safe,” she maybe thinks that, but how does that work in practise? Generally, the idea of not telling a loved one about your heroics is to keep them from getting involved and getting hurt, but Marinette is the one getting her friends involved by giving them Miraculouses. She breaks that safety justification herself. The show also raises the possibility of Hawk Moth lifting this information from their mind if they ever got Akumatized, but Marinette herself has almost gotten Akumatized but could avoid the butterfly with Tikki’s encouragement. The solution to getting Akumatized is to not leave your secret-keeper alone when they’re upset. Also, the show later reveals that this is a nonissue, because Kagami, who knew Ladybug’s identity, got Akumatized with Hawk Moth being none the wiser she knew, meaning Hawk Moth can’t read minds to that degree, but, to be fair, the heroes probably didn’t know that. I think most Miraculous holders' decision to reveal or hide their identity from their loved ones is one that's based on what they consider most functional and is, in fact, not based on morality at all.

So, here’s the question we should actually ask about Marinette’s secret-keeping: when you keep  a secret that “isn’t yours to tell”, is it really a moral choice or simply a choice? The thing about keeping secrets in real life is that it, by itself, isn’t a moral or immoral act. It’s what your secret-keeping accomplishes that determines whether you made a moral choice. Of course you're not gonna tell your friend your other friend is planning to throw them a birthday party if you want it to be a surprise, but, if the birthday hero just told you they're planning to go out on that date and time, it's just practical to let them know your shared friend has something planned for that time. It's not a moral choice what you do here, simply a practical one.

If your friend comes out to you about their sexual or gender identity, this secret deals with your friend’s personal life and really is no one else’s business. Keeping that secret is, of course, good. If your friend has queerphobic parents, revealing the secret to them would put your friend in danger, so it would be bad to tell.

If your friend told you they’d murdered one of your classmates in cold blood and had hidden the body, you keeping that secret makes you an accessory to murder and you could face legal charges. However, your personal moral code also applies here. Would you be cool with murder if the victim was also a murderer and killed your best friend’s sister? Would you be against murdering but even more against betraying your friend by getting them caught for a crime they committed? What if your friend murdered an innocent person and you both know this and your friend tells you they plan to kill again because they’re actually a serial killer and keeping their secret means more innocent people will die? Then it would undeniably be bad if you chose to keep that secret.

There are more important things to consider than whether or not a secret is “someone’s to tell”, like actual harm coming to people because of secrets that should be kept or revealed.

The matter of secrets is that we need to take into account who they affect. The things Marinette keeps from Cat Noir: the grimoire, Fu, her training, Rena Furtive becoming a permanent member, are all things that affect Cat Noir. I’m sure Cat Noir would like to know the history of the power he wields. I’m sure Cat Noir would appreciate some guidance and training too instead of being left to flounder and try to figure things out alone. I’m sure Cat Noir would like to know what backup is available in tight situations, especially if Ladybug herself isn’t available to be Rena Furtive’s sole contact. The excuse that these aren’t Marinette’s secrets to tell, because they’re Fu’s or Alya’s, are just excuses. These are Marinette’s secrets, because she’s benefiting from something she’s actively denying Cat Noir access to.

Her secret-keeping is even more questionable in the season five finale with Gabriel’s evil deeds, Hawk Moth’s identity and Adrien’s status as a Sentimonster. These secrets directly influence Adrien, his ability to recover from how his father treated him and his ability to keep himself safe when his free will can be easily hijacked. This information doesn’t just affect Adrien, it’s information he needs. And the stans are justifying Marinette keeping this information from him with “it’s not Marinette’s secret to tell”, implying the responsibility should be shifted to anyone else but their precious idol. Well, here’s what I think of that: these secrets are also not Marinette’s to keep.