#esp when it should be logically impossible for him to do so

[quimbionics]

anyway i just think marcus should experience very human-like symptoms of ptsd despite being an android — namely panic attacks. hundreds of system errors that throw absolutely everything out of whack all at once, causing his internal cooling systems to fail and he overheats to scorching levels as a result. system overloads that override control over his bionics and cause all of his abilities to glitch on an even greater scale than the rats. system failures that corrode the voluntary nature of his built-in bodily functions — leaving him a crying, sputtering mess as his sensors go haywire

[callmearcturus]

okay the Eye of the Duck for each of the MI films

Mission Impossible:

I promise I really thought about the Vault Scene and I could go on for ages about it and I maybe should since it's the marker of what separates MI from other action franchises.

But my heart lives in this scene as the emotional core of the movie, where Jim comes back from the dead and tries to spin a tale that Ethan is too smart to fall for but is still tempted by. The way Jim says one thing but Ethan's already pieced together what really happened-- and doesn't like the answer, rewrites it in his head to make it fit what he wants.

Ethan's emotions and how much he cares about people is his ultimate weakness and it remains so for the entire franchise, so to see him wrestling with that all the way from the start is crunchy.

Also Ethan soulgazing the camera for that long is very affecting.

Mission Impossible 2:

the point of the EOTD is to find the scene at the movie's center that reflects its core back at you. I think Woo's vision of MI is exemplified by that final fight scene between Ethan and the villain. I remember the first time I watched the movie, this scene made me go "NO" out loud several times.

I mean, mostly because absolutely not that handgun will not fire after being in the sand for that long, there is not enough gun oil in the world.

but since I have wisened up and realized MI2 is not the worst MI movie, I think I get it more. The over-the-top motorcycle jousting, the slow-motion, but especially the cuts to the roiling ocean-- everyone shut the fuck up and let your bodies tell the story, even if the 'story' here is as simple as "I'mma fuck you up." It doesn't have to be original, it just has to be a cohesive vision, and honestly I think people would like MI2 a lot more if they acknowledged Woo accomplished his specific vision here.

I don't love MI2, but I respect it. Way more than, uh.

Mission Impossible 3:

god i hate this fucking movie but the EOTD is really obvious.

The only scene in this movie that works 100% is after the stupid vapid villain is gone and when the movie returns to the two fucking actors who carried this horrible script on their fucking backs.

Ethan has a charge in his head that is about to detonate and kill him. He's asks Julia to kill him and then bring him back to life to defuse it.

I... My hatred of this movie is legendary but I love this scene. I love Ethan staggering around like a drunkard bc he's blinded by pain. I love the way he explains how to shoot a gun to Julia. I love his little "Don't point it at me" and the way he likens the reload of a magazine to the flashlight in their kitchen, something both of them understand. I love the absolute trust here--

Esp bc I think it's clear Ethan could die right now, but he'd rather go out trusting his wife to save his life than to worry about it too much.

And Julia actually fucking saves him, and it's good! It's the only good scene in the movie other than Benji's second scene. And if MI3's goal was to dig into the Emotions of the franchise, then fine, this is the scene that's best at it.

Still the worst movie. Someone stop JJ Abrams from ever writing scripts.

Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol

holy shit i am stunned someone clipped this bit

I am straight up stealing Brendon Bigley's EOTD scene because he's right.

This moment, right after Ethan and Brandt have escaped the river, there's this incredible lull in the action where Brandt asks "Why would that work?" about Ethan's ridiculous flare trick to misdirect the KGB dudes with the rifles.

Ethan's confused about Brandt's question because... he didn't know it would work, he played a hunch.

Brandt's bitchy lil "'kaaaaay.... so what was your scenario" and the way Ethan actually smiles as Brandt tries analyzing the logic of what just happened and why.

This is the EOTD of GP because it's the film tipping its hat to everything its doing (and everything MI will become moving forward) in microcosm. MI is not about metriculous clockwork plots and spy intrigue, it's about heart and instinct and the fucking motto of the IMF: "I'll make it work." Tacitly, this convo between Brandt and Ethan is Brandt as audience surrogate and Ethan as filmmakers' surrogate.

Why did that work? Don't worry about it, just keep saying yes and we'll get through.

(Also the bit immediately after with the best Tom Cruise Is Short joke in the series, immaculate physical comedy, love it.)

Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation:

fuck all y'all I'm going to pick a single joke and obsess over it

FIRST 15 SECONDS

THAT'S IT THAT'S THE EYE OF THE DUCK

I'm not even remotely kidding, but this is related to BTS info about the gag. The script apparently only said "ethan and benji get into the car" but when it came time to film, TC was like "I can't just get into the car, it's the waste of a moment. hang on, i got it" and for the next take just DID that stupid flail across the car. Pegg's stunned look is real because no one knew he would do that.

As a writer, I love this moment because yes, just climbing into the car would have been a waste. It would have been an opportunity to put in a character moment just forgotten.

This is related to that lovely lil moment in Fallout where the team are meeting up with Walker after catching Lane, and there's no dialogue, but as they come up the stairs, Benji spots Walker, and he immediately flattens himself to the wall to get out of Ethan's way and looks back at Ethan for guidance. Ethan gives Benji a nod to say we're good, don't worry and they continue up the stairs.

These are little moments of characterization that are mostly built from actors who are just very comfortable with their characters, and this expediency of storytelling. Cut all the unneeded seconds, and make sure every second that remains in the movie is doing some kind of work.

so yeah that's the EOTD for RN.

Mission Impossible: Fallout

the EOTD for the entire MI franchise is the scene with the Parisian cop.

Ethan stopping everything to try to convince a bystander to leave and keep them from getting hurt. That's the soul of MI, the same emotional damage Ethan's carried since MI1.

Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning

"I was hoping it'd be you."

shocker, I'm not picking the moment when Ethan literally Says The Fucking Theme Out Loud, nope. I'm picking the moment Ilsa decides she too will follow the new IMF's batshit "beat the trolley problem by pushing the trolley off the tracks" creed, and gives up everything for a woman she doesn't know who is in over her head.

History repeats, and Dead Reckoning's obsession with closing the loop and creating internal consistency out of a series that has had five directors and seven films works perfectly for me. Venice is a visual recreation of Prague in MI1, with Ethan racing down dimly lit streets to save someone but is just not fast enough.

I also have this personal read on the scene as a refutation of Gabriel and the Entity, who represent an almost Calvinistic philosophy of inevitability and fate. Gabriel tells a lot of fucking lies for a guy fashioning himself to be a prophet, and he taunts Ethan about having to choose between Grace and Ilsa.

But Ethan doesn't chose shit, he's busy getting almost suffocated by Paris in an alleyway. Ilsa is the one who makes a decision, and for a person like Ilsa who literally was the person to ask Ethan to run away with her because all this spy shit is useless and meaningless

Ilsa is the one who picks, and she decides to save Grace. Not Ethan and not the Entity and not Gabriel.

Ilsa died to save an innocent (well mostly) woman, and that's the entire point of MI. There is no such thing as acceptable losses and if you can prevent someone's death, you do it.

AND THEN ETHAN SAYS THAT OUT LOUD TO GRACE BECAUSE "YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME" "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES THAT MAKE?" AND THAT'S MISSION IMPOSSIBLE

okay i'm done

[mbakuetshurisprincess]

Love for Duty’s Sake Part 5

AN: Hello loves! Wow when I tell y’all I was FIGHTING in the editing room with this fic because I couldn’t tell if I should split this in half or not. I ended up just keeping it as one because I felt bad for ignoring democracy (sorry lyric) and posting Anything But Love P2 before I posted this one. A couple of fun facts about this fic because I literally have nowhere else to put them lmfao. In the convo with Griot, the reason Y/N’s argument works on him is because it follows a valid rule within arguments/logic called Hypothetical Syllogism. Basically, If A leads to B and B leads to C then you can correctly assume that A should also lead to C. Google it if you’re interested! Also, in writing Shuri’s interactions (esp the “in my wife's name” parts) it's like very heavily inspired by the way Dracula talks about Lisa Tepes in the Castlevania show!! 

Holy fuck don’t know how I could ever forget this. As always, any of my fake dating stuff is dedicated to the lovely @pinkwright. This is my writer bae y’all have no idea, L4DS and ABL posts are always made with them in mind. 

Summary: As the only daughter of Genelia, there were things you just had to do, and marrying the Queen of Wakanda was one of those things.

Pairing: Shuri x Fem!Reader

Warnings: Cussing, violence, brief mentions of bad relationships with parents that’s it I think.

Word count: 6,213 (you see why I was thinking about splitting it up now??)

Part 1.  Part 2.  Part 3.  Part 4.  Masterlist.  Taglist.

Suggested listening: Glock Six (Bonus) - 6LACK 

“No need to state the obvi', I be close to your heart I know you looking for real love I got my hand on my Glock, posted on the block I might just let off a shot, at anyone tryin' to kill her”

The feeling of your body sliding off of your wife and onto the hospital pillow below you was the first hint that something was off. You knew Shuri didn’t mean to be so rough with you, even if you hadn’t been injured. She just hopped off of the bed quicker than her mind could remember that you were laying back on her. Only when you grimaced slightly did Shuri think enough to look back at you. 

“Ndicela uxolo sthandwa sam (I’m sorry my love).” She muttered to you softly, scanning your body just long enough to ensure that you weren’t really hurt before turning her attention to Aneka. “When was this posted?” 

“Ten minutes ago.” 

Shuri took a deep inhale, rereading the post. “How did she even know about the shooting to post?” 

The question was impossible for Aneka to answer, knowing something like that wasn’t necessarily in her job description. You, however? You were used to political moves like this. “She knows because the shooting happened in her city Shuri.” 

“What?” Shuri turned to face you.

“I’m just saying, if something goes down in the Golden City, you’re made aware right? The same thing goes for DC. Especially on a day like today, foreign powers come into town. I’m sure she was all over it.” As you spoke, wheels started turning in your head, the scenario surrounding the events of your shooting. Everything was almost too perfect like it had been orchestrated. 

“Listen to what you just said Y/N, I’m notified when something happens in the Golden City, not you. So why would she be the one posting about this instead of the President?” Shuri’s tone was harsher than you would have liked, posing the question to you as if you were a child misunderstanding basic math. 

You sat up in your bed. “Because President Carter isn’t leading the show, Mallory is.” 

“Why would you say that?” 

“Because I know it’s true.” You folded your arms across your chest, starting to get annoyed at Shuri’s refusal to see what was clearly right in front of her. “Do you not trust me?” 

The question was loaded and the Queen’s response came instinctually, “The question is not if I trust you, we are married of course I trust you. But you make it increasingly harder to trust you when you put forth ideas like that.” Shuri mimicked your position, crossing her arms over herself. 

Her response stung and the look on your face made Shuri regret saying it immediately. “I did not mean-” 

You cut Shuri off, not wanting to hear what she had to say. “Nope. You said it. What do I know anyway? Not like I come from a family of politicians who would make this exact same move given the chance.” You turned your attention from where Shuri and Aneka stood back to the tv, effectively disengaging from the conversation. 

Warning signals were going off in Shuri’s head and she knew she fucked up. Taking one more look at the screen she made her way back over to your bed. Kneeling next to you and taking your hand in hers. “I am sorry, sthandwa sam. (my love) I didn't mean to brush off your idea like that.  Your attention still faced forward but the Queen could feel the race in your heart rate when her thumb traced over the lines of your knuckles. 

The silent treatment you were giving Shuri was frustrating her, if she had just slowed down as Okoye said, she would've thought about what she was saying before she said it. “I promise I will make it up to you-”

The buzz of Shuri’s kimoyo beads pulled her attention away from you and her apology. 

Speak of the devil and she shall appear.

It was a message from Okoye letting her know that they had all made it back safely to Wakanda and that Liam Drockers was in the lower-level interrogation rooms. Aneka must’ve gotten a similar message from Ayo because when she made eye contact with Shuri, she gave her a knowing nod as she left the room. 

“I will make this up to you… when I am free again.” The end of the sentence tumbled slowly out of Shuri’s mouth, knowing it was going to garner a reaction from you. 

“What?” Instead of your voice sounding angry like the Queen had expected, it almost sounded more hurt or scared. This new tone pulled at Shuri’s heartstrings. “You’re leaving?” 

While yes, you were literally just ignoring Shuri ten seconds ago, you hadn’t expected her to just up and leave like that. Especially given how physically close you two had spent the last hour, part of you had grown attached to her in a way you never imagined possible. Addicted to the safe feeling that only seemed to come when you were in her arms. 

“I have some council business I have to take care of.” Her rubbing of your hands still hadn’t stopped, tracing every detail of your knuckles. 

You looked at her now, teeth biting at your bottom lip. “What do you have that’s so important?” 

“Just some time-sensitive stuff I need to handle. It should be quick, I don’t imagine it will be long.” Her eyes were averted, so you had no read on what possible clues they could be conveying. Something about this bothered you, normally she was so demanding of your eye contact and now she wasn’t even looking up. But you knew Shuri, whatever this was she wasn’t going to give up easily. You needed something to garner her attention first before you asked her what you needed to know. 

“I think I’m gonna call home.” Shuri’s eyes instantly flashed up to yours.

“Really?”

“I think so, I don’t want my family worrying about me, you know? I don’t want them thinking I’m dead or anything. Now that Mallory has so kindly let the world know about this.” 

Shuri hummed in response, debating asking the question at the forefront of her mind. “I thought- I mean, I didn’t know you had a way of contacting them.” 

This made you feel a little bit guilty since you had made it seem like you’d given Genelia up for good. “It's a direct line to my father's advisor, only for emergency purposes.” Your eyes flickered around her face. “I’ve never used it, I didn’t think I’d have to.” 

Shuri felt assured in hearing this, the slight worry that had slipped into her mind about you secretly planning to leave her dissipated. “Oh, okay.” She savored these last few minutes of her hand tracing yours, knowing that soon those same hands who held yours so delicately would be used in the complete opposite manner. 

“Shuri?” The way you called her name was soft, the same way you had in the restaurant before all of this had happened. It made her feel warm inside, lowering her guard just as you intended. 

Her response once again was just a hum, her eyes studying every detail of your face the way her hands did yours. 

“You wouldn’t lie to me right?” Your question caught her off guard but her rubbing never stopped. 

“Kakade hayi, sithandwa sam. (Of course, not my love)” Her eyes conveyed no sign of lying so you continued. 

“So it’s really council business that's so pressing you have to take care of it right now? Not anything to do with me?” You asked the question confidently, not taking your eyes off Shuri, searching for a tell. Anyone else would have missed it but you didn’t, the brief second when Shuri’s movements faltered. When her hand stopped rubbing yours. 

“Yes.” 

“Yes, what?” 

She stood up now, letting go of your hand. Being at eye level with you was too much right now, it felt too connected given the fact that she was literally lying to your face. “Yes, it’s council business like I told you before. Very time sensitive.” Before you could respond she spoke again. “Aneka!” 

The Dora appeared in the door frame with lightning speed, “Yes, ngangamsha (your majesty)?” 

“Guard Y/N’s side of the ward while I deal with this business, make sure no harm comes to her.” Shuri’s words were confident and her arms now crossed her chest signifying her demeanor change. 

“Shuri, I don't need a babysitter, I’m fine.” You protested. “Plus Aneka has yet to see Ayo, let them see each other.” 

“I am fine, my Queen. Thank you for your kindness but ensuring your safety is more important.” Aneka responded quickly, earning a nod of agreement from Shuri. 

Your wife looked down at her kimoyo beads. “I’ll be back in an hour, mfazi (wife).” Placing a kiss on your forehead, she looked down at you one more time before she left. “No trouble while I’m gone?” 

“I’ll try my hardest.” You replied as she walked out of the room, Aneka behind her taking her spot guarding your room. 

This left you alone with your thoughts and while a million things were running around your mind there were two prominent thoughts. One being, your wife was lying to you. 

You couldn't be a hundred percent sure about exactly what she was lying about but you knew it had something to do with you. While you wanted to snoop around and try and figure it out, the second of the thoughts found its way to the forefront of your mind. Having to call you family. 

Looking around you found your physical phone, the one that Shuri still referred to as ‘primitive technology’. Scrolling until you found the contact you didn’t think you’d ever have to press. Saying a prayer you pressed call and hoped for the best. 

The line rang only one time before the person picked up. “This isn’t some sick joke, you’re really calling me?” 

“Marcos, I told you I’d only call you in an emergency. I wouldn't play a joke like this.” 

You could hear him recite a prayer on the other end of the line. “Everyones worried sick about you Y/N, I mean your parents think you’re…” His voice trailed off and it made your heart hurt thinking about the stress this whole situation inadvertently caused your family. 

“I know, I know, that’s why I called. Can you just tell them that I’m alright? It’s nothing to worry about and I’ll be fine?” 

Marcos contemplated your words, “Y/N, your father will kill me if he finds out I spoke to you without giving him the opportunity.” 

The sound of movement from the other end of the line had you concerned. “Marcos wait, you know I don’t want to speak to them.” It was a useless plea and you knew it. As much as Marcos cared about you like you were his own daughter and wished to protect you as such. At the end of the day, he worked for your father. 

“I’m sorry mon papillon (my butterfly)” The term of endearment did little to quell the feeling of betrayal as Marcos moved to give the phone to your father. 

“Whoever it is Marcos, tell them they will need to call later, I am grieving my daughter.” 

“It is about Y/N, sir.”

Your father looked between his advisor and the phone before picking it up. 

“Yes?” This was the first time you had heard your father's voice in years. It had become too painful to go back and watch old home videos from before Yara’s death so part of you wondered if you’d forgotten what he sounded like. But as soon as his deep voice bellowed through the phone, you remembered. 

“Dad? It’s me.” You were scared to speak the words at first, questioning how he would react. 

“Y/N, is that you? Oh my god! Josiah, get your mother from the chapel, our baby is alive!” The outcry from your father made your heart hurt, had he been that concerned?

“Dad-” You tried to speak but his rambling cut you off. 

“When we saw the news honey we were so worried about you, I thought you had died. But you didn’t! God brought you back!”

“Dad-”

 “He’s bringing you back home to us!” He ended his rejoicing when you finally spoke up. 

“Babba! What are you talking about?” Your pain medication must have been making you delirious and mishear things. 

“What do you mean Y/N, this is a sign! You were almost taken from Genelia, from us. We need to come together and give thanks that you’re still with us.” Your father's words were confusing you, why was he saying that you were taken from them as if they weren't the same ones to send you away? 

“I’m not coming home Dad, I was just calling to let everyone know I was okay-”

“Nonsense!” Your mother spoke now, you weren't aware when she arrived in the room. “You must come home, we miss you. This was a wake-up call, don’t you think?” 

You paused now and took a deep breath. What they were asking was encroaching on a boundary you had set the day you left Genelia. To never come back. “I just, I don’t think it’s a good idea guys.”

It was now your parent's turn to pause while they thought about what they could say to change your mind. But it wasn’t them that spoke, instead it was a different voice. One that clearly held the tonal characteristics of a man but was still slightly squeaky signifying they hadn’t fully finished maturing. 

“So you’re just never gonna come back? Is that it then?” If it wasn’t for your father's words earlier you wouldn’t have even been able to guess who it was. But of course, it was your little shadow who spoke up now. Josiah. 

“Siah-”

“No, you don’t get to call me that anymore. My sister, who loved me and didn’t just get up and abandon her family for a fancy new life in France, called me that. I don’t know who you are.” 

Josiah’s words cut through you like the sharpest blade known to man, cutting deeper than any slick comment from Shuri. Is that really what he thought happened? That you left your family behind to go chase your dreams in a foreign country? 

You didn’t care about your parents, quite frankly fuck them. Any emotional ties you felt towards them had long left you, so saying no to them while it was hard; it didn’t hurt. Saying no to Josiah though? Hearing the disappointment in his voice? He didn’t deserve this. To be caught in the crosshairs of the relationship between you and your parents. 

“Fine!” 

“Fine?” Your mother and father's voice asked in unison. 

“Fine, I will come back to Genelia to visit.” 

“Tomorrow?” Josiah’s voice questioned.

“Tomorrow? Siah I just got shot.” You tried to reason with your brother, and while you didn’t feel any of the effects of the shooting at this exact moment you still didn’t know if traveling so soon would be wise. Plus you still needed to explain this all to Shuri. 

“You’re married to the smartest woman in the world and live in the most technologically advanced country. I’m sure they can figure something out.” Josiah left no room for argument in his sentence. 

“Fine Siah, I will come to Genelia for a few days, flying in tomorrow. Happy?” You didn’t even understand why you were agreeing to this. 

“Not in the slightest, I have no idea who you are anymore. I did that for Mom and Dad.” 

That hurt more than Josiah knew. You tried to tell yourself that he didn’t mean it, but something in you couldn't believe it. 

“Okay well, I’ve got to go. I’ll um talk to Marcos about arrival times and everything.” You needed this phone call done, the gravity of what you had just agreed to started to weigh on you. 

“Parfait! We can’t wait to see you soon Y/N. We love you!” You could hear the smile in your father's voice and felt guilt not only that you didn’t feel the same happiness but that you couldn’t reciprocate his “I love you” truthfully.  

“Yeah I um, I’ll see you guys soon.” With that you ended the call, throwing your head back against the pillow. 

As you sat in silence you digested what had just happened.

1. You called Marcos, just to let him know that you were alive. 

2. You ended up on a phone call with your parents, speaking to them for the first time in years. 

3. After declining to come to Genelia, you were guilt-tripped into returning by your little brother. Not because he wanted to see you but because he knew his parents wanted to.

All of this made your head reel and you longed for the peace and comfort that your wife provided. But she wasn’t here with you, her wife who had just been shot. Instead, she was dealing with council business.

“Griot.” 

“Ah your majesty, I am glad you are in good health again. What can I do for you?” 

You paused wondering if Griot was even able to give you this information. “Where is Shuri right now?” 

“Shuri has programmed me to not disclose her location to anyone unless it is an emergency, I am sorry your majesty.” 

Of course Shuri had done so, always wanting to keep tabs on everyone but not thinking anyone else needed to keep them on her. You wanted to give up before an idea popped into your head. “Griot, Shuri programmed me into your system as a Queen, correct?” 

“Yes your majesty, she has programmed you with the same clearance as she has.” 

Jackpot. 

“And Shuri has access to her location status I would assume?” 

“Yes, your majesty.” 

“Great, so she has access to her location status, and I have the same clearance level as her/  You can give me her location.” Your reasoning was solid, creating a logical path that the AI could follow. 

“Yes, your majesty, that does appear to be correct. One moment please.”Success. “Queen Shuri is in the basement, interrogation room one.” 

“Interrogation room one?” You asked Griot again, you didn’t even know the palace had a single interrogation room, let alone multiple. 

“Yes, the Queen has been in that room since she left you in the hospital wing.” 

So she had been lying to you. 

“Thank you, Griot, that will be all.” 

There was no doubt in your mind that this had something to do with your shooting and that Shuri thought she was doing good by you by keeping you away from all of it. Trying to shield you from more pain. But that wasn’t what you asked for, it was what she decided you needed. 

You touched your abdomen, trying to gauge your pain level. As Josiah had said, you were in the most technologically advanced country so truly your recovery wouldn’t take more than a few days. Right now, you felt good enough to hobble out of bed and make it out of your room. 

Shuri wanted to lie to you? Fine. But you were going to go down to the basement to figure out exactly what she was up to.  

You made it no more than five feet out of your room before a body in front of you haltered your progress. 

“What are you doing out of bed ngangamsha (your majesty)? You should be resting.” Aneka’s concerned look surprised you. While you knew it was her job to protect you, you saw a twinge of genuine concern in her eyes. 

“She lied to me Aneka.” You took a step to the side and then forward so she was no longer in your path. The dull twinge of pain let you know that this might be more difficult than your first few steps had made it appear, nonetheless you were going to make the journey. 

“Intoni? (What?)” 

“Shuri lied to me. She told me she had council business to take care of, but she didn’t. She’s downstairs in the basement right now. So I’m going down there to see what could be so important that she felt the need to lie to me.” You continued your walk towards the elevator pleasantly surprised that Aneka didn’t appear to try and stop you. 

You took a few more steps before suddenly something pressed against the back of both of your knees, causing you to lose your balance. Falling back right into… a chair? Aneka stood above you, her hands on the handle of the wheelchair that she had just gently gotten you into. “I am not condoning you doing this, however, I know I can not stop you.” 

You nodded, grateful to hear that. 

“But,” Of course there was something. “I will not let you rip your stitches hobbling down there.” 

A smile passed across your face and a similar one came to Ankea’s. 

“Plus, I can talk to you while we make our way down there. I should fill you in, it is for the best.” Aneka pushed you forward as she began to explain just who was awaiting you in the basement. 

While you two made your way down, Shuri, Ayo, Okoye, and your assailant were deep into their interrogation session. 

To Shuri’s credit, she tried to be diplomatic about the whole situation. When she first walked into the room and saw Liam Drockers sitting down with Ayo and Okoye on either side of him, she imagined what her brother would say to her. 

“Patience sisi.” He would say. “Regardless of what he has done, he is deserving of a fair questioning, the same as you and me.” 

And she tried to take T’Challa’s advice, asking Liam simple questions at first.

“Are you an employee of Judas’s Ice Cream shop?” 

No response.

“Are you working for the United States government?” 

No response. 

“Were you aware the person you shot was the Queen of Wakanda, Y/N Y/L/N Udaku?”

A small smile creeped up on Liam’s face after she finished speaking, but still, he said nothing. This infuriated her and she was about ready to cast this whole morally right thing to the side and get the information she needed through more direct means. 

But then her mother's voice came into her head. “Do not let him remove you from yourself intomba (daughter).”

The Queen calmed herself, “I asked you a question. Were you aware the person you shot was  Y/N Y/L/N Udaku, the Queen of Wakanda?” 

While Liam's eyes had largely remained on the floor he pulled them up to her now, showing off the bored look they held. “I didn’t miss, did I?” 

Shuri’s heartbeat increased, so he knew what he was doing. This was a planned attack on her wife? He knew who she was and still chose to take the shot?

“You still thinkin’ bout showin this fool mercy?” No. That was the one voice she didn’t want to listen to. 

Okoye saw the look and Shuri’s eyes and when their gaze finally met, a wave of concern washed over her. She was losing Shuri to this. 

Okoye’s suggestion for a break is what brought them outside, Shuri pacing up and down the hallway trying to decide how to move forward. 

“Is it really that hard of a decision little cuz?” 

“Shut up.” She spoke out loud. Ayo looked over to Okoye wondering if they should step in but Okoye shook her head, hoping that whoever Shuri was speaking to would provide the young girl some clarity. 

“I’m just saying what you’re really thinking here. I mean he shot ya wife, you really cool with letting that slide?” 

“I am not ‘letting it slide’, I’m going about it the diplomatic way N’Jadaka. Something I know you know nothing about.”

Erik laughed at that “Aww shit little panther got some bite to her huh? But you’re right I don’t know shit about the diplomatic way, what I do know however is how to get results, quickly. It’s cool though, give this mother fucker the time and respect he didn’t give to your wife. I’m sure that’s smart.” 

His last comment drew Shuri over the edge. Done with the conversation and confident in her decision, she made her way back over to the door where Ayo and Okoye awaited her. She knew the decision she had come to was harsh but the only thing on her mind was ensuring your safety and getting to the bottom of this. 

“If you do not want to stay for the next part of the interrogation, I am not ordering either of you too. This is the time now to back out of this, without any blood on your hands.” She thought for a moment about how literal her figure of speech was about to become. “Ngokunzulu (Seriously).” 

Okoye looked Shuri up and down. It was in moments like these that she no longer saw the young girl she had watched grow up over the past ten years. The youthful glow had faded over and now left Shuri with a hard exterior that seemed to be ever-present. “Are you sure this is what you want to do ikumkani wam (my queen)?” Okoye offered this out to Shuri now, one shot to think clearly about her decision.

“A hundred percent.” Was Shuri’s simple reply. 

That’s how they ended up here, Ayo holding Liam’s cuffed arms behind his back while Shuri issued blow after blow to his abdomen, turning him effectively into a human punching bag. 

“You done with the games now Liam?” A punch landed on his stomach. “Are you ready to say something and give me the information I need to know?” 

The whole ordeal hurt Okoye to watch but she understood why Shuri had shifted to such drastic means, it was only out of necessity. 

Liam gathered his breath as Shuri removed the jacket she’d been wearing, leaving her in a compression shirt. “No words Liam, really?” She cracked her knuckles and delivered two more blows, one after the other. “That’s okay I’m sure soon enough you will.” 

He shifted in Ayo’s arms for a few seconds for spitting the blood that had pooled in his mouth down at Shuris feet, giving her a defiant stare. 

A smirk rose to Shuri’s face as she looked at the few drops of blood that had gotten on her sneakers. “You know Liam, I had been holding back in the name of my wife. I’ll tell you a secret since, quite frankly, the likelihood of you making it out of Wakanda to repeat this is slim to none. I don’t know much about my wife, we do not have the most conventional marriage so the real things I can say I know about her are few and far in between. But what I do know about my lovely Y/N, she hates violence and views it as the very last play in the book. Convinced me not to kill a spider once just because she said it wasn’t necessary.” 

Shuri smiled at the silly memory of you cussing her out at home when she tried to kill a spider instead of releasing it outside. 

“So, in her name, I haven't been using any of my enhanced strength. This,” She points to the purple bruises that had started to form on the skin of his stomach. “It's all me. But, since you want to be disrespectful and spit blood on my shoes, we’re giving all that up.” Quicker than anyone in the room could have seen, Shuri put her hands up and delivered a devastatingly strong blow to his stomach. Providing enough force that even Ayo had to take a step back to steady herself and absorb some of the shock of the blow. 

You watched in horror from the other side of the glass in the interrogation room as Liam doubled over in pain, gasping for air. Aneka and yourself had been in the room just long enough to watch him spit blood on your wife's shoes. 

“Now, we’re going to try this again.” Shuri started with the same line of questions from before. “Are you working for the United States government?” 

Once Liam pulled himself together, he gave the Queen no answer, just continuing his stare of contempt. 

Shuri chuckled, “Again then? Okay.” She let out another punch, Ayo being more prepared this time held Liam’s body tight. 

“She’s gonna kill him Aneka.” You spoke quietly from the wheelchair as you watched the whole ordeal take place. “We can’t let her kill him, that’s not her.” 

Aneka nodded, “But there is nothing we can do right now my Queen. Ayo and Okoye are in there with her, they will not let it go too far.” 

“I need to get in there.” Shuri wasn’t going to listen to Ayo or Okoye, you didn’t even know if she was going to listen to you. But as far as you were concerned this had already gone far enough. You started moving your wheelchair towards the door but Aneka stopped you. 

“Your majesty I cannot let you in there, bringing you down here was a breach of protocol enough. To have you in there would just be a blatant disregard for the Queen’s wishes.” Aneka declared. 

Both of your attention was brought back to Shuri and Liam when she hit him in the same spot again, leading him to cough up more blood. 

“You go in there and bring my wife out to me or I go in there and bring her out myself. Two choices, you pick.” You folded your arms like a child, waiting for Aneka’s response. 

She looked into the interrogation room and back to you. “Bast you two are perfect for each other. Stubborn just alike.” 

With that she left you, walking out and knocking before entering the other room. 

“ikumkani wam,” She interjected, pulling Shuri’s attention from the man and onto the Dora. 

“What is it Aneka, I am busy.” Shuri looked at her impatiently. 

“uY/n ulapha kwaye angathanda ukuthetha nawe (Y/N is here and would like to talk to you).” Aneka switched to their mother tongue so Liam couldn’t understand what they were saying. 

Shuri’s face faltered for a second. You were here? How long had you been watching? How much had you seen? “I am in the middle of an inter-” 

The sound of you banging on the wall to indicate you didn’t care what she was doing cut Shuri off. She looked at Liam before speaking to Ayo and Okoye. “Put him down, I will be back shortly.” In a second Shuri was out of the room and opening the door to the other side of the interrogation room, meeting your icy gaze. 

“What are you doing out of bed sithandwa sam (my love)?” Shuri’s concern was real, raking her eyes over your body. 

“You lied to me.” You weren't wasting time tip-toeing around the subject, 

“I was protecting you.” Shuri’s justification came quickly, as she took a step closer to you. The light illuminated her face better now and you were able to see the small spots of blood that had splattered on her face. 

Against your better judgment, you called her closer to you “Come here.” She obliged kneeling so you two were at eye level, mimicking the position you two had been in this morning. You reached to hold her face in your hand, wiping the small dots of blood away with your thumb. “You lied to me,” You said again looking into her eyes. 

“I was trying to-” Shuri tried again to explain this to you but you cut her off with a gentle tap to her lips with your free hand. 

“I know you were trying to protect me Shuri, but I am your wife. You can’t lie to me.” The look in your eyes conveyed the seriousness of your comments. 

The excuses started to form in Shuri’s mouth but she stopped them. “I- I know and I’m sorry. I should have told you what I was doing.” She let her head rest in your hand and averted her eyes down, fiddling with the material from your hospital gown. 

“Yes, you should have.” While your words were harsh, the tone and way you caressed her face let her know you weren't really mad with her. 

“Let me make this right umfazi (wife).” Shuri declared sitting up so she looked you in the eyes once again. “The man, his name is Liam Drockers he-” 

“I already know Shuri.” You smiled at your wife who looked at you cluelessly. “Aneka filled me in on our way down here, I know everything. I want to speak with him.” 

Shuri pulled out of your grasp now, appalled you would even ask something like that. “Absolutely not Y/N, there is no logical reason to risk your life by putting you in there with him.”

“First there is no risk to my life, not only is he handcuffed but Ayo and Okoye will be in there with us. Second Shuri, you owe me. This has everything to do with me and you tried to keep it from me, I deserve at least one chance to speak with him. Alone.” You were confident in your rebuttal, Shuri tried to find a counterargument for every point you made but she couldn't. 

“Five minutes with Okoye, Ayo, and Aneka inside with you.” Shuri brought her demands to the table and you thought about it for a second. Was she seriously that worried for your safety that she thought you needed three Dora’s in there with you and a restrained and beaten man? 

“Deal.” 

With that Shuri wheeled you out of the viewing area and to the interrogation room. Aneka held the door open and your wife pushed you through the entryway, stopping at the frame per your request. 

“Oh yeah and pack a bag, we’re going to Genelia tomorrow.” You shut the door leaving your very confused wife on the other side. You two were going where? 

In front of you sat a very bruised Liam Drockers, Ayo, and Okoye on his sides You always found it so funny how no matter how big or bad someone seemed, at the end of the day they were made of flesh and bones just like you. 

Wheeling up to the table you sat and stared at your attacker for a moment. Trying to search for something you were never going to find, a reason or justification. 

“Alright, Liam I’m going to make this very easy for you.” You interlaced your fingers and let them sit on the table, this is where you shined. “In the other room, my wife is waiting with bated breath for me to tell her it's okay to come in here and continue to beat the living shit out of you. Now me personally, as you heard before, I’m not a fan of violence. I think it's an unnecessary evil of the world, something we really can function without.” You paused letting out a chuckle. “Not that I think that you believe the same,” You gestured down to your stomach. “You clearly favor my wife when it comes to that way of thinking.” 

Liam's eyes moved all over you, attempting to size you up as a threat. 

“So, now that you know that much about me, let me tell you how this is going to work. Either A. we can make this super simple, you answer every question I have and agree to the plan we have in place. Or, I call my wife back in here and she beats you to a pulp.” 

A wheezing breath came from your attacker and you couldn’t help but notice how weak he looked now, the beating from Shuri having done a good chunk of damage. “I’m not sayin shit, I know my rights.”

You smiled at this, leaning closer to him. “Your rights? You think your rights will protect you here?” The look on Liam’s face changed for a split second, his facade slipping. “You’re in the basement interrogation room of the most technologically advanced country in the world because you shot one of their Queens. You were flown in on a top-secret jet, there's no record of you ever even being in Wakanda. Nobody knows you’re here.” 

“That’s- that’s not true.” Liam stammered out. “There are people out there who know who I am, who are looking for me.” 

This got the heartiest laugh from you yet. “Mallory? Really? You think she’d save you?” The idea he was pushing was almost comical. “You were a gun for hire, you served your purpose and now there's nothing left for you to do, you were disposable from the beginning. Do you seriously believe she’d risk a national incident to save one measly hit man?” 

The truthfulness of your words hit Liam like a ton of bricks, there was no getting out of this. 

“So,” You began. “I’ll ask the question my wife has been trying to ask. What the fuck was your mission and who do you report to.” 

Liam shifted in his chair, looking around the room as he assessed his situation. “It all started with Mallory.” 

Taglist:  @shuriszn @sokkasbae25 @verachii @cuddl3s4shur1 @takeyaki @jinnie10101 @letitias-fav @sweetalittleselfish-honey @beautybyfire @6-noir @mocha-aya @yvxmpire @mysticalmarss @ziayamikaelson @youralphawolf72 @n7cje @inmyheadimobsessed @shurisjournal @shurisbigtoe @saintwrld @pinkwright @chatitajens @playhousedistee @motheroffae @injeolmiee @tchhairbandhere @._mrqs @msudaku @lppriceisright @bratydoll @blackqueengold @iheartsolo @cafehyunji @abenomeiiii @naomis-daydream @ilroachsworld @locoforshuri @nrc-06

[kristiliqua]

im just thinking about wil’s stream today and how much it revealed abt q!wilbur’s character based off of his actions and behavior . help .

(TLDR at the end)

likeee . bro was so quick to draw conclusions , assume , and then put blame on others , despite have little to no information on literally anything abt the eggs’ disappearance . he was quick to blame everyone who was active on the server , saying that the eggs are still missing bc they “havent tried hard enough” and are just “doing nothing” , in terms of searching for them — all of which is untrue , but he says it as if its a fact anyway . even finding q!cellbit sus and not trusting him , despite knowing (again) little to nothing abt the guy , about his character and who he’s like as a person (that he cares a fuck ton abt the eggs and has been trying so hard to find any clues as to where they are) , the fact that he’s been gathering all the info he could ever since they disappeared (and before that , with other shit) . but he blames and finds him suspicious anyway .

he blames everyone else , when everything is and has been out of their control . they dont know much and Cant know much bc they know jack shit abt what could Actually be happening with the eggs . they only have theories and ideas

realistically , the thing q!wilbur should blame is ,, whoever or Whatever took the eggs away . but since he doesnt know wtf thatd be , its not as easy or assuring as it were to be if he blamed it on an actual Person or people he knows , instead of smth he doesnt know at all . its easier for his grief , to blame someone for the cause of it , to be angry and upset at someone . a physical person he can blame . and this irrational/illogical behavior is probably caused by the , yk . reasonably upset reaction that came with the bad news of his daughter being gone

plus the way he went to just ,, do it all by himself , despite the Very limited intel he had , saying that theyll never find the eggs if they just “follow the rules” (in his words) and all “do the same thing” . so he does it his own way , searching for any clues on anything , despite knowing practically nothing abt anything thats happened these past few months . even tho he knows that , logically , everyone else on the island probably has a bunch of info already , info that they could give him to help in his search (bc they all have the same goal in mind) . but instead he’s stubborn and doesnt want anybody else’s help , thinking theyre too incompetent and dont care enough abt the eggs — so he does it by himself , all up until someone reaches out to help him , rather than him asking for help himself (that someone being q!phil) . and in his attempts he ofc fails miserably , bc he Doesnt Know Anything . he has limited access to everything that could potentially be helpful (doesnt know where or what the order is and barely has any waypoints , only checking his and tallulah’s and the outside of phil’s house) , and so he’s basically working with fucking scraps . like itd literally be Impossible for him to find the eggs all by himself , he Needs the help from the others in order to make even a little bit of actual progress (so everyone thank q!phil for pulling up even after their little argument)

and logically (bc he isnt Stupid) , he probably Knows that . he knows that the others very likely care abt the eggs as much as he does (bc why would they all be gathering up for this mission thats For the eggs if they didnt .?) and have far more info than he could ever get by himself , bc he’s been gone for months and hasnt been caught up on anything of actual importance . but he was so upset and quick to blame everyone else (the mfs who could actually Help him and Know Shit) that he shut them off , going off by himself . esp after q!phil lashed out at him

anddd maybe there was a little spite or pettiness in there too , him wanting to prove that he can do it better than them , that he can get more than theyve ever gotten since they “didnt try hard enough” n all , and him finding shit out in a single day would be a huge testament to that idea . but ofc that didnt happen lmfao — he was practically playing a big guessing game with the info he had (or the lack thereof)

TLDR — i just find it interesting that q!wilbur was so quick to jump to conclusions and to push blame onto anyone and everyone he could , even tho he barely knows anyone on the island anymore . the way he went to take matters into his own hands , bc if theyre not gonna do anything abt it , then he will (,,, Not . bro was So lost)

just . what an interesting fella . what fun characterization . what a silly guy who is mourning the loss of his daughter (he is in denial)

[sepublic]

            I have a slight dilemma in the whole “A good portion of the Escapees want to kill Lloyd for the Sins of the Father” type of deal, because like. Admittedly, these powerful, (generally) competent, grown-ass adults repeatedly pouring everything in to kill a child is fairly ridiculous. Esp since it doesn’t feel like they pour that same energy into other things that should also abide by their reasoning (more on that later).

         It’s basically the Plot saying Screw this kid (who is a main protagonist) in particular, because things are from his perspective and need to suck. Like the reasoning behind “The Boss VS when you unlock him as a playable character,” though to be fair I DO want to tackle that sort of thing in my stories. Basically it’s a holdover from Lloyd being the central protagonist back then, because this DID all originate as a deeply elaborate Ninjago prequel keep in mind.

        But back to the point: To be fair, I could weigh into that madness of the Escapees even more, the irrational, emotional immaturity and how they’re driven by a mindless rage and they KNOW it’s stupid but they just don’t care at this point, and Lloyd has some appeal of his own as an easy punching bag. Well, a punching bag who SHOULD be easy, but there are people with their own stakes, pragmatic and/or unconditional, in him.

         And some of the Escapees DO have other motives (like Tamericus wanting to make the Philosopher’s Stone, Barracudox wanting to change the status quo of this family who has watched over but also meddled for generations, Lynkos liking the challenge of an impossible feat and finding Lloyd’s insistent survival enticing)… Plus, it’s admittedly hilarious seeing these dudes dedicate so much time to this nephew by virtue of proxy, because at some point Lloyd teases that they may as well go after someone’s pet goldfish by this logic (not that there is any, he of course concedes for the Escapees).

         Though I should clarify that it’s not like they’re spending ALL their time trying to kill him, nor is he the one they spend the most on. It’s the other adults who were actually responsible, but from Lloyd’s perspective, it feels like the Escapees’ entire lives revolve around him because that’s the only time he really ever gets to see or hear from them. He sadly does not have any connections to his relatives to build upon a more sonder worldview of these losers. And honestly, Lloyd probably isn’t even exaggerating that much…

   ��     Is it all silly in the end? Definitely. But this particular series of mine does like to embrace the absurdity and inherent humor of a lot of things, while also going straight into the sheer horror of them at times (did I mention Fullmetal Alchemist was a formative influence upon me). Maybe it really is a matter of changing the Escapees’ motives/plans so as to necessitate them trying to kill Lloyd, but while they intend not to let it be personal though it comes across that way, Lloyd goes F it, it’s personal to ME by this point so why not? Why not make it so and irritate them as much as possible as a bit of payback?

        So you still get the hilarity of these fully-grown adults trying to murder a child, but also some of them are TRYING to retain the decency of not letting it get to their head, because to be fair yeah I’d also respond angrily. He’s fully entitled to his emotions. I AM being unreasonable. And OH MY GOD DID THAT LITTLE SHIT SAY THAT

[thoughts-on-bangtan]

Just read your post and agree with everything, esp about bad ship theories. One thing you said, kinda stuck out. The voting argument where Jimin went without JK, so therefore they seem to live in different areas. Then does this mean you think Vmin live in different areas? I mean, if they have been together for years, why would they not be living together? IDK, I just always kinda felt Vmin low key live together this whole time, but now your answer has me doubting that. You don't think Vmin do?

Admin 2: Hello anon,

In my reply I will try to convey to you my personal point of view in regard to Vmin and their relationship and in this case, how I see the question of them of living together.

The fact that four BTS members voted at the polling stations of their district shows that not all of them are registered in Hannam in their shared dorm.

We know, and it is no secret, that Taehyung bought an apartment in autumn 2019 in which, as you can see, he also seems to be registered. We know that Hobi and Jungkook bought their apartments at the end of 2018 in the same building and supposedly even on the same floor. Taehyung has posted photos from what looks like his apartment more than once and it is no secret that he owns and stays in this apartment. During some program on TV, one of his Wooga squad friends talked to Taehyung on FaceTime, who seemed to be at home in his apartment and wondered what he should eat.

Of course, there is more information from illegal sources, but we will not touch any of that.

It is known about Jimin and his living situation that his apartments (building) are under renovation.

Ok that's official facts of things we know. However, we do not know what the actual living situation of the individual members looks like.

Actually, all options are theoretically possible, but based on some logical considerations, some arrangements can be deduced. The fact that Taehyung is not registered in the dorm does not mean that he does not live there, or at least that he does not stay for a long time.

Jimin likely being officially registered as living at the dorm does not deny that he could also spend some time at Taehyung’s apartment. Do you understand what I'm going for? However, I exclude that officially Vmin or any couple could officially be live together. We have heard more than once about the obsessiveness of fans, about the stalking of the saessangs, about them occupying whatever buildings BTS are staying at, about the way they even go after the members families to get their hands on any kind of information’s.

Therefore, the best solution for Vmin is that they have access to Taehyung’s apartment. I think that in the dorm, and anywhere else (except for their bedrooms within the dorm), it would be impossible to lead any kind of relationship in peace.

There are all sorts of people at the dorm, their staff (like their managers) have success to the dorm and could just walk in at any time. The mere fact that Vmin (we assume they are a romantic couple) is in a fragile relationship and therefore any kind of leak, so to speak, would lead to a catastrophe. Antis and alike are just waiting for such "interesting" details from the private lives of the BTS members.

I believe that it is not possible to have any romantic relationship in a classic way within the group, and it is completely impossible for two members suspected of a romance to live together. (The same applies to J/k/ok etc.)

However, I am personally convinced that Vmin spends a lot of time together, even if only because they study together for their now master’s degree. I suspect they stay a lot together because Jimin wears Taehyung's clothes (especially his oversized boots) because even after work he was supposed to go to Tae (or Tae to Jimin) during the Billboard H100 # 1 night. We have screenshots of conversations with fans during games where Tae said he had to stop because Jimin had just made ramen, some other time he’d mentioned he was planning on doing something with Jimin the next day etc. Jimin said during Vlive in April 2020 that him and Tae like to go driving at night and many other things.

"Someday, when these cheers die down, stay hey

Stay with me by my side"

And that is also my opinion: A normal relationship will only be possible for Vmin when they are no longer the most famous musicians in the world living in a very conservative Korea, especially since they (and other members as well) still have to go to their military service in the VERY conservative Korean Army. Actual suspicions of a queer relationship within the group could and likely would only endanger the members during their service, just like I previously mentioned in my reply to an ask about Jin’s reaction to Taehyung’s “Jiminah I like you the most”.

I would also like to add some observations and thoughts to members speaking about their situation in life.

I have a strong impression that it doesn't matter so much to the fans whether Namjoon or Yoongi or even Jin live at the dorm or anywhere else.

What obsessive fans care about is where and with whom the maknaes live.

Therefore, I often get the impression that some dialogues, some scenes in RUN or interviews or other shows are shown in such a way that there is some confusion about who with who and confusion about where the maknaes live and whether they live together or not. I may be delulu, but I often get such an impression, especially when it comes to Jimin, that he deliberately says certain things in a way that can be interpreted in multiples ways, or like they mean something, even though likely it doesn’t mean anything at all.

We know Jimin is very private and doesn’t readily share private information’s, so it just seems like he “feeds” obsessive shippers, of whom I’m sure he’s well aware they are listening and just waiting for it, something that really is empty just so they have something to do, like JK saying he wants to make pizza at the end of some RUN episode to which Jimin asked “at home?” which was asked (or at least translated by weverse/vlive) in such a manner that shippers spent the next two weeks discussing what home he meant and if that means they do live together. Because of that, really, Jungkook can keep his privacy, as can vmin, since shippers will hold on to those empty phrases (fanservice) while the members can do whatever they want away from the cameras. Does that make sense? So, in the end, even if it seems like Jimin shared some insight into their living arrangements, we really still know nothing at all about where the maknaes live and with whom. It’s very smart PR and fits with the media training Idols in general seem to receive.

Edit: I read your comments and I want to clarify what I meant with the above part about Jimin, since I really didn’t mean to shift the blame for bad shipper behavior on him in any kind of way: 

I’m sure we’ve all seen bad shippers make the argument that the members that are part of their ship supposedly purposefully say certain things to send them “secret/hidden messages” or “hints” that “only they will understand” which in turn are meant to prove their ships. That’s what I meant by “seems to “feed””, not that he’s purposefully “lying” in their favor or feeding into their weird fantasies, but rather that the vague things he sometimes says, or his occasionally cheeky/teasing comments made in good fun with the other members, are taken by shippers and interpreted in ways to fit their narratives, even if what Jimin says has nothing to do with ships at all, he’s obviously just joking/teasing, or it’s just a vague “empty”/deflective statement to keep private info private. 

In all those cases the blame is on shippers and their bad behavioral habits of twisting the members words instead of listening properly and realizing that Jimin is joking or that what he said isn’t a hint or anything at all.

After all, Jimin said so much, supposedly, and yet we know nothing, not even about him and Taehyung studying together, which was quite literally never mentioned by them. Not even once in passing.

Of course, everything I've written is just my personal opinion and point of view. I could of course be totally wrong.

From anon: I agree that "Feeding the Schipers" isn't the happiest phrase, but I get what is going on. I think what J/m says and how he says it is like fodder for ships. I don't think he's doing it on purpose, however. Definitely not. J/m has this style of teasing, joking and shippers buying it as "secret confessions or notices" but a cool comment in general.

Admin 1: I’d like to quote myself from my asks post yesterday as reply to this ask, since it fits here as well:

Besides, at the end of the day, their living arrangements are not something we are privy to and that we shouldn’t try to figure out either. The members say they still live at the dorm, and if that’s the version they want us to believe, that’s the one I’ll stick to, unless they tell me otherwise.

[marmarparadoxa]

It's because of recent tweets I saw but I know some are blaming the SC (esp the 104th) for not seeing Eren better during the 3 years they had and also for pushing many responsibilities onto his shoulder. I get why they see this as Eren's friends making a blunder but I can't help but disagree partly. (1)

On one side, their excitement and distraction came in the form of the outside world - something that seemed neigh impossible at the beginning of the series and once had been the 'end goal'. We know that's not it now. It seems logical that people like Armin and Hange will be distracted per say towards the new techs and innovations the outside world is offering. How the fruitful encounters they have w Marleyans making them hopeful (2) I understand where they're coming from, especially considering their disposition that tends to be optimistic and intelligent. Others like Jean, Connie, Sasha, and Mikasa can also be distracted by the new things too. It's something so human and highlights how even the close-knit group can make blunders. (3) I don't agree with people blaming SC for not noticing and their slow decision with Eren and the Yeagerists because that means they still care. They value their friendship with him and want to not mess him up more. Even from my perspective, there's a level of respect SC and military have for Eren for not just being the AT and FT but as a person/personnel. (4) It's so easy to 'coddle' Eren because as a reader, we are relatively relegated to a higher see/position to judge. But take it from the charas' views, it's just like real life to a point. They are faced with this time limit and the world going down on them while at the same time, they try to not cross too many moral lines. Especially for Hange who is responsible for many lives under her and Armin's 'kind' disposition. (5) What miffs me is that the people who side with Eren in this case doesn't tend into account that Eren almost never tries to reach out. While it's justified when we put his 'plan' into account, that just sounds selfish to be frank. Yes, he asks Mikasa about 'what he is to her' and he did try Armin's way once, but those are such minimal effort. Sometimes, they themselves need to reach out first and seek help more (6) That may sound cruel, but that's how it works unfortunately. I would be more lenient to Eren if he did more effort with sharing and trusting his friends but he doesn't - so of course, the SC is surprised and shocked and hurt at his actions. They don't know and it's unfair. Eren does this all because of what he saw and ironically is likely doing a self-fulfilling prophecy. He gives up hope and that's his downfall. (end)

Hi! :) Apologies for this late reply. You’ve already covered a lot, so I’ll try to add my two cents on what you’ve already pointed out.

In short, blaming the SC, especially the 104th, or Hange, for not seeing through Eren and not understanding what was going on with him doesn’t make sense to me. Because Eren didn’t allow them to do so, he didn’t allow them to see. During those three years between the battle of Shiganshina and their leaving for their trip to Marley, he kept on working with them, he never disrespected Hange, and almost always he acted and talked in accordance with what were their shared plans for the future. When Kiyomi proposed Zeke’s plan, of course they were all horrified, none of them wanted to proceed with it, and didn’t know what to do, but then, it was Eren who standed up and spoke against it. In front of everyone, Mikasa, Hange, Historia, and the rest of the assembly, he said he would never agree with Zeke’s plan and sacrifice Historia, that relying on the Rumbling would be too risky, and it was he who proposed to use the time they were left with to think about other options, that they should seek other ways. Not long after, he would say to the same persons which would end up risking their life in order to stop him, that they were more important to him than anyone else, and that he wanted them to live long lives. I brought up all this, so to clarify how Eren could be perceived by his friends, what was the picture that they could make out of his words and actions. On the other hand though, there were also some signs that something was off with him. When Armin and Mikasa were talking about the building of the port and them getting along with the captured Marleyans, Eren couldn't be as hopeful as them, and his attitude was sharp and emotionally detached. Then, unlike all others, he wasn’t there to taste Niccolo’s cooking, and we didn’t see him interact with any Marleyans - he was the only one that was missing when they were talking with Onyankopon, and in all those little, shared moments of peace and hope. So I think Eren, at that point, was already starting to isolate himself from the rest of them, shutting himself up, and maybe, as you also said, with all those new things to understand, with all the work and the building and the planning Hange, Armin, and the others too had to do, they weren’t able to notice this change, they didn’t pay much attention to it. But again, what could they infer from that? With respect to his words, to his resolute opposition to the use of the Rumbling and Zeke’s plan and Historia’s sacrifice, to his outward determination to find another way, those were subtle cues, that could reasonably pass unnoticed, and blaming the 104th for not acting upon them is rather pointless.

So this is where his friends’ remarks in the last episode come from: Jean: “Eren suddenly started getting along with Zeke’s plan”, Connie: “Did he look like Eren to you? I don’t think so.” and Armin and Mikasa’s disbelief and painful confusion. Eren methodically killing children and civilians, Eren getting along with Zeke’s plan was nothing like the Eren they used to know, even in those last years.

And Eren never shared with his friends, or with Hange, and not even with Armin or Mikasa, what he saw in those future memories. He kept everything inside, he trusted no one with that knowledge, ruling out the possibility that anyone could help him understand what was the nature of those memories (was it all bound to happen? Could it be avoided?), and try to figure out a solution, so as to prevent that catastrophe. Maybe, initially, he still believed that they could have avoided that, but more and more, he felt like they were running out of time, and that future he saw increasingly assumed a character of concreteness and unavoidability.  I was also talking with @oldsummerdream the other day about Eren, and Sushi reminded me of this Isayama’s interview, where it says that, as his prior beliefs were gradually getting destroyed, Eren more and more would act upon a principle of self-preservation (”How about just conserving myself?”). So perhaps, also indulging in those seething feelings of disappointment, anger, and the imperative to preserve himself , that future became a necessity in Eren’s mind, something that Eren eventually stopped fighting against, and adopted as his own will. 

And it was him who eventually decided to act alone, not consulting anybody else. The SC, his friends, never put that responsibility on him, they never required from him to save Paradis alone. Eren could have been the wielder of that power of the Founding Titan, a power which could decide the fate of them all, but, under their commander’s guidance, they were all working together in order to find a solution, a way to peace. As Hange said, they were ready to think stuff through and feel frustrated along with him, so Eren wouldn’t have been left alone. He just decided to do so, building an impenetrable wall around him, and once he settled himself on that irreversible path, he then proceeded to push away the people which cared about him more than anyone else - Armin and Mikasa.

Maybe, when that night in Marley he asked Mikasa what he was to her, he was still wavering, maybe, there was still the tiniest possibility left inside him to not succumb to that darkness; maybe, if Mikasa would have chosen another answer, things would have been different. The other possibility though, is that Eren, at that point, already knew what he was going to do, and that’s why he was already apologizing to Ramzi, and crying - because he had already given up all hope. So perhaps, he just wanted to know, before leaving them, before entering that road, he wanted to ask that question to Mikasa, because he knew that it would have been his last time with her, his last chance to know (and months later, he’d be still wondering about that, and asking for his brother’s opinion). But I’m not sure about it, and at this point, we’ll never know.

[wolfsneedles]

Probably biggest misconception is how catelyn is flawed as mother. I dont understand how obviously you can have 5 children to be accurate who are all further apart from you, and some are unsafe and as hostages in KL, other is fighting war and remaining are in home, the home was taken from them which is winterfell after war of 5 kings erupted. Logically talking, takes days and months to reach one place in westeros that by time she would have reached winterfell to be with bran and rickon maybe that time would have been taken by ironborn to reach winterfell when they sacked it. You cannot just say she should be with all her children and starklings and also hope robb wins, and she gets her daughters back and all is well?? Obv so many things and her mistakes which makes her a flawed character happens as result of wrong judgements and then it was impossibility to go back or leave robb. Catelyn assisted robb too a lot in war. Her eldest son did need her as someone near to her because she was TULLY! she and her son needed their support and that of riverrun. She even knew The Freys and made pact with them not mentioning how pact turned out all wrong not bcs of their mistakes only but also freys and boltons betraying and killing them in cold blood which was very unlikely. She is even sent by Robb to deal with Renly and Stannis, hoping she makes them take their crown off and fight to similar cause, then she brings brienne on the way too, and later learns of what happened in winterfell. How does that make her terrible conflicted mother, im sorry? She was doing whatever she could to help her son win war because winning that was their only chance and losing it was their permanent demise. Also she left winterfell and bran alone as people say?? Well why? Because i wonder bran was crippled and was on bed when an assasin was sent to kill him in front of her and that to in their own home, own room. Had it not been for brans wolf they both would have died yet she so bravely wrestled with the assassin as lady. As normal lady with no tactful skills or strength. of course we know later who sent it to kill bran, but her biggest last straw to leave winterfell and go to Ned ( wondering ned is also responsible for more things as in not being coming back home when given the chance 500 times to, to escape Kl, or even ask for forgive of cersei or flee with renly....but he didn't well and left them alone too knowing robb was only elder stark there and...benjen was gone) and she even comes again, back to her home when she sees tyrion, and vows to capture her because again,,,

1) She thought dagger was his we all know littlefinger told her.

2) Now her trusting LF is dumb but why? grrm made him smart and not entirely evil for purpose of telling us too how so many ppl including tyrion and cersei are fooled by him for so many times so how was cat and she knew him btw, was supposed to mistrust him, lets say even if she is somewhat naive and made mistake in this matter? Ned even trusted him. And so many. It was definitely not mistake as people push on the fact that trusting her fathers former ward who also loved her, in foreign land was dubious

3) And she still gave tyrion a trial. this makes jamie also very grey for killing ned's men, a stark, and HAND OF the king at that time openly in place, Also tyrion was suspected again which is told since dagger could have been his was made up lie by LF. infact most od jon arryns story was all a lie by LF,,, but we did not know that neither did she

And setting tyrion free, brought her back to her son's war and ned getting beheaded although i do not remember all timelines but before robb is announcement as king in the north, she even urges them all to vow and make peace and get her DAUGHTERS back. So ppl who think she was more of mother to sansa and not arya is another misconception. This is mostly used by extreme antis and others to turn them against one another when half of the diff bw them arya and sansa are result of mistake and negligence by both ned and cat and even septa mordane! Yet it is all a child's matter....arya and sansa learn a lot through their journeys about importance esp arya, of importance of having a wolf pack and not just lone wolf. Catelyn herself confessed how arya was so difficult and different not in negative way!! but to define her traits that she was always playing, in a mess "half a wolf pup, half a girl" is clearly not said as a terrible statement towards a daughter. She thinks sansa on the other hand is very sensitive and sentimental which she was, and there is nothing wrong with her being a conventional lady however she no longer believes in so many fairytales even, and arya defying the norm of being feminine lady for which you almost must be dressed as lady. Catelyns worries for her daughters and them being so apart was literally a mothers worry backed by toxic mindset and patriarchal values. Yet even then she like most mothers, never thought of only marriage and children as fate of her daughters which for e.g tywin treating cersei; only as beautiful gem of daughter to get excessive betrothals and better claim of lands and titles via her daughter only.

Ned and Cat didnt even had their daughters betrothed which was disadvantage in far sight but also kind of how their approach on their children were. Rickon was too small and definitely last of her children. Bran was precious to her not because he was bran....but because he did lose his legs and was about to get killed which made him wonder what bran did or knows which led to such vivacious attack. How is that being unequal to your children. Similarly her thoughts on arya and sansa are both realistically embodying the nature of two very different sisters. She LED JAMIE FREE to trade her daughters. SHE KNEW most likely arya was dead yet she still did it definitely not to get sansa only back but as diminishing hope for exchange of both her daughters. Long before she got to know arya might have been dead , just like bran and rickon, THEN obv her worries shifted from one child to the only alive kids she had: Robb and Sansa. Sansa was betrothed to Tyrion. And Robb was leading a war. Yet she still impulsively and as they said " a plight of mother" released jamie. Surely does make her a conflicted worrisome and passionate mother - not just to her some few children only.

Throughout acok and asos, there isn't single thing that means to describe her resentment and unequal treatment of children. Catelyn's upbringing had an effect too. Her mother died too young, she was left as woman on mercy of a terrible father in my opinion and an uncle who did love her and comforted her! She was even married to someone she didn't see. She is or did have conventional mindset about marriage and children. Her entire thing to ned and her children were embodiment of Family, duty, honour. A lot of other ppl in asoiaf aren't really always tied intrinsically and loyally to families esp ones whose families have been terrible to them. Duty is another important thing. She never even asked Ned for Jons mother purely as duty yet her outburst on young child is definitely worthy of criticism. She and Cersei in a way had both same kinds of husbands in different ways, and yet both used diff ways to climb a male dominated society - and both have different way of loving children even and a different demise (so far as we know cersei is still alive)

[halion-halion-aito]

as a re: to my previous post about this, i want to make sure you know that what i said was not in a... positive sense.

i wish you all understood that i'm not angry because we got lighthearted moments and got to laugh at a normal chaotic family. i'm angry because that's so not what the batman books are about.

the most common response i've seen is "do you prefer bruce abusing and hitting his children all day?" and my aswer is fucking no! i just don't want either of these things! because none of them are what the batfamily is about!

the problem here comes from a tendency that has become more and more prominent, and that's about not reading at all or reading without actually reflecting on the content.

the thing is that the batfamily dynamics are absurdly nuanced and complicted, i'll never stress this enough. it must mean something that, whenever he's in danger and/or he feels like he's failed dick compulsively says "sorry, bruce, that i let you down" even if bruce isn't even around, or that jason wasn't able to fix his relationship with bruce. but it also must mean something that whenever something goes wrong alfred is their number one safe place, or that both cass and damian found a newfound family where they actually feel like belonging.

it's a family that has been scarred and torn apart many and many times, but that somehow always ended up reuiniting and being a source of support. everyone in the family has been through some serious trauma, some of it caused by the family itself even, and bruce's emotional immaturity never managed to make him an actually, adequate parent. his relationship with dick was based on the trauma they shared, but as they never were the same person like bruce thought this damaged heavily dick himself and their relationship. i'd say that, when jason came, bruce was actually able to parent him in a decent way, but then he died, and this influenced his relationship with everyone who came later. and this is just an example, because there are difficult aspects to each relationship.

the moment when you engage with batman and specifically batfam comics, you must be aware that it is not going to be something that you can just... read. it requires that you have to be ready to dig a little deeper than "good" and "bad" relationship. than "wholesome" or "irredeemebly abusive". when you choose one of the two aspects, you've already taken away what's so interesting and actually at the core of the family dynamics.

although, the fandom does this a lot. and lately esp the writers do, too. except the two go in the opposite directions.

with b:wfa, it looks like the writers decided they're done with the "abusive and bad" batfam and went for the "good and wholesome" batfam. instead of pushing for the nuances and double-faced coins they should be knowing about ahead since they are, you know. official writers. official content creators. who sould be aware of the themes and the data they need to write about.

and that's also what got me mad. because i wasn't even that mad anymore that the fandom was doing it, you know, because. you're the enjoyer i guess, focus on the aspects you prefer the most and elaborate on those. write about tim being a coffee addict despite all the post debunking this. make jason welcome and at peace with everyone, despite the logical evidences that it is completely impossible. but the fact that the original and official writers decide to forget about the details of the dynamics and go for the easy and simple path? for how much of a transformative medium and all comics can be, this looks like a little bit too much to me.

[sunsetsover]

Just hopping on the anons last week who said they'd done reading around BPD and Ben etc after reading your posts to say... when Whitney told Ben he makes everything about himself in this week's eps I immediately thought of you! Like lemme explain lmao I remember last year you wrote about how lots of fans said Ben was making everything about him when him and Callum had that argument about the warehouse job in Sept.? And you wrote about how you viewed it and how looking at Ben through a lense of mh goes a different interpretation etc. Idk Whitney saying that just made me recall your thoughts on the fandom saying the same thing lmao.

(although tbh I didn't think Whitney was v fair saying that anyway bc how was he meant to know Callum had witnessed a stabbing etc?? He wasn't making it about himself he was simply worrying about the info he had access to???)

no joke i literally thought the exact same thing after i watched it yesterday. not the post (tho i do remember what you're talking about!) but i was like 'oh ben's behaviour is VERY bpd' like probably the most obvious example we've had since 2019 maybe and then i was like man.... how many people are going to have Bad Takes abt ben's behaviour and how he's 'selfish' and then i was thinking abt what whit said and it reminded me of something i heard once and i've tried to find it but i can't and i'm gutted bc it made so much sense but it was abt how bpd are often viewed as selfish or making everything abt us but we do that bc we literally feel like everything IS because of us/our fault. it's literally a Symptom. like when you're hypersensitive and terrified of everyone abandoning you EVERYTHING feels personal.

like someone's in a bad mood? clearly i have done something to put them in a bad mood. someone doesn't reply? clearly they hate me. you smile at someone in public and they don't smile back? clearly they can sense something is Wrong with me and didn't want to engage. either that or they think i'm hideously ugly. that's the default assumption, that it's somehow something to do with me. not that they're going thru their own shit or that they're busy or tired. and then when we're talking abt someone you're close too, the fear of abandonment comes into play where you either start to push them away bc you're convinced they're gonna leave anyway or frantically do things or change things to help convince them to stay, and both of these can go very extreme. and ofc it's not logical but we can't help it. i'm always saying this to people in my life: i know how i'm feeling/what i'm doing isn't logical and it doesn't make sense, but i literally can't help it. it's like the sensible you is locked in the back of your brain forced to witness all of your own bs but they're literally powerless to do anything about it.

which is also why i can understand under the hysteria of your own fear of abandonment and hypersensitivity why ben could convince himself callum was gonna leave him for whitney. like ofc i get why ppl would find that unrealistic and offensive, but i can't NOT see him as bpd, and when you have bpd that fear of abandonment is so so incredibly pervasive that you start thinking things like that and convince yourself that they're real. like you genuinely believe them. and someone of sound mind is like 'that doesn't make any sense, he's gay' but like.... that almost is irrelevant to a certain degree. your own belief that you're so unlovable and that everyone is going to leave you holds SO much weight in your mind, more than even reality itself.

like you could almost compare it to hallucination. reality and logic dictates that it's impossible for there to be a man crawling on the ceiling, but if you can see it and hear it and feel it then ofc you're going to believe it's real. reality and logic become irrelevant bc you KNOW it's there, even though it isn't, u know? it's the same kind of thing: reality says ofc callum isn't gonna propose to whitney when he's married and literally gay, but that all-consuming fear of abandonment is so much louder when it says 'he's lying, he's sneaking around w his ex, he's not talking to you about anything, he's got a ring, ofc he's gonna propose to her, she didn't ask him to quit his job or force him into a position where he had to lie for months, ofc he was gonna leave, he just married you out of pity, this is all your fault, you don't deserve happiness or love bc you're a bad person lmao what did you even expect?' etc u know

if i'm being completely honest if i were in ben's shoes i could EASILY see myself being convinced my gay partner is gonna leave me for their ex of the opposite sex. like worryingly easily. and tbh between that and what was going on with kheerat, i actually think he coped surprisingly well. like i genuinely thought that yesterday that if i was in his situation i probably would have reacted much worse and been in much worse a state than he was. and i'm not just saying that, i think his growth since 2019 is obvious in how tame his reaction to it all was tbh.

i realize probably no one will bother but if anyone really is interested and wants to understand more then u should watch this video. i've timestamped it at the first point bc if nothing else u should listen to that bc it helps explain what i've said in a much better way esp the example abt clearing out the garage but the whole video is really good and i would love for some ppl to watch it. like i know it's half hour and that's a long time and also the interviewer is obnoxious and p insensitive but the doctor herself is really good and explains everything i've been trying to explain in a MUCH better way than i ever could and i think it will really help you understand what it's like to be someone bpd and what it actually means for day to day life

like i realize i've completely gone off on one w this and im sorry but i have opinions and i just want people to understand you know?? not necessarily for ben as a character but for all the ppl out there w bpd bc !!!! no one gives a fuck abt us they just misunderstand us and then do literally nothing to try and understand us when we try to explain ourselves so to have ppl actually engaging in this dialogue w me makes me very excited and i try to explain as much as i can while i have the opportunity u know lmao so i very much appreciate you and getting messages like this thank you 💞💞💞

[chattegeorgiana]

Hello! It's been yrs & I still feel totally disrespected by how Naruto declined after/during the Pein arc. I thinking everything including & before Jiraya's death was 👌, but after it just spiraled down like a bad fanfiction. Everyone's character suffered tremendously. Of the things I wished happened: 1) I wish Naruto made a personal mistake. He had protag protection that prevented him from his personal wrongs & flaws from having real damaging affects & consequences, like Sakura's confession. It made him a bit 1D & predictable (aside from god power ups w/ his reincarnated brother but who would have guessed that...). His personal growth felt lacking bc the story didnt show the flaws in his personality as real consequential flaws. 2) GOD I WISH OROCHIMARU RETURNED AS/REMAINED THE MAIN VILLIAN. Orochimaru was absolute top tier antagonist & was genuinely terrifying & unsettling. And, most importantly, he was bad almost just for the sake of being bad. They didnt try to soften him to the audience with an overtly tragic backstory (not that a tragic backstory SHOULD redeem his honestly autrocious crimes, esp in a shinobi world where tragic backstories are as common as weeds) & I just really, really appreciated that.

Ooh there's something else I rlly miss: 3) Intelligence in battles. Genin!Sakura & Shikamaru fights were my favorite to watch, even in filler movies, bc they utilized much more clever thinking. The Sasori fight was a great balance between intelligence & action & we see it again...never? I'm bitter about the missed genjutsu too but moreso what happened to my girl who worked her way through an impossible chunin exam test filled with college level questions requiring critical thinking, understanding & application of theorums, & proofs? & Even tho they were just filled movies from SP of all ppl, where's the girl who thought to lure a wolf beast woman to a natural (?) applifier so that her howl would cause the pillars to collapse on herself in Stone of Genele? And where's the girl who took a few seconds to calculate the flight pattern of an enemy snow ninja to such precision it was like she had clairvoyance in Clash in the Land of Snow? I KNOW studying medicine is HARD, those 7-12 of school required to be a medical practitioner are no joke. We know Sakura is intelligent, I wish we saw that intelligence & clever thinking used more often in a combative situation. Not just with Sakura fights, but in general. (2)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wholeheartedly agree with what you said! The only good thing about Naruto after the Pein arc is his mother’s arc. After that?

It’s sprinkled with good moments here and there, but the plot overall and its mechanics? An absolute mess! It defies its own logic and it becomes more fantasy than fantasy itself.

One thing that the story did wrong is like I said, being too fantasy. And when you’re writing a fantasy story, in order to not overbear the reader is recommended to add realism into it.

And that’s why Naruto was so successful back in part 1.

Because despite the fantasy lore he was built into, it brought a lot of realistic elements into it. Like you said, in Sakura and Shikamaru’s battles we had peak display of what truly meant to be a ninja: a combination of brains, techniques and body capabilities.

All those things went down the drain after the Pein arc and that’s where the story fell flat, sadly... And it’s a shame because it was what drew us all into it back in part 1.

The fact that even if they lived in a fantasy world, we had elements of realism that we could connect to. We had mechanics that made sense and functioned within the established rule, not outside them.

And about Orochimaru, OH MY GOD YES! For me he was the epitome of villain. I don’t see Pein as a villain, more like a political antagonist. But Orochimaru?

Orochimaru was pure evil and that is what I loved most about his character. Because in the real world that’s what happens with some people too: they are pure evil. They don’t care.

I get that Kishimoto wanted to explore the path that gets some people evil but like you said, at some point that shouldn’t even care. A sobbing story shouldn’t excuse your actions though?

And that’s a major problem this story had: accountability. It lacked a great deal in this department and gave people motives to excuse every shitty action of every villain. And that’s not ok.

We could’ve had medicine being explored from both povs: that of a mad scientist like Orochimaru and that of a normal doctor like Tsunade & Sakura.

But sadly we also missed that opportunity. We also missed the opportunity to see WHY it’s so hard to train a medical ninjas. Imagine the mechanics we could’ve had there.

The story just tells it to us, but never really shows it. Which is so sad.

But yeah, like I said, I wholeheartedly agree with you 100%. I think this is a subject we could talk for eternity lol.

But at the end of the day, they did it the way they did so eh, what can we do?

[purple-ktj]

An overdue Q&A, and I didn’t really have time to skim over to proof read my own answers. I hope there aren’t any serious inconsistencies or mistakes because tumblr is giving me a lot of grievances and I can’t edit any long posts after they’re published. 

Some of these were answered some time back and I compiled them till now please understand!

Q1: we cant know for sure but i personally believe taehyung invented the jwan nickname, and ill explain why:

- seokjin calls taehyung voo because according to him he is "too lazy to say the full vowls", just like he says jwa hope.

- bts tease seokjin and taehyung about these nicknames, like in the new years vlive and on the comeback showcase bangtan bomb where right when seokjin started saying "oh voo" jimin said "voo" with him and laughed. but there is no doubt that its seokjin who made it up- bts said that during the vlive and seokjin said it himself on weverse AND taehyung said "you sound like jin hyung" when a fan called him that.

- jwan has a similar logic- just like voo, jwa hope, and ja-ka, jwan is a "drop the vowl" nickname. so im 100% sure it was made to tease seokjin back when he uses their nicknames.

- so why tae?

1. voo was the most repeated nickname out of the "no vowl" nicknames and it was the most teased one from the members, so the person who is most likely to tease back is tae.

2. taehyung chose it as seokjin's nickname in the festa q&as sheet he answered for him, and thats the first time we came across this nickname. i think each person answered the nickname question according to their own point of view (esp tae, just like he answered the which member is jin thinking about rn with "me since im writing this")

3. taehyung replaced "voo" with "jwan" when bts were booing and it sounded like voo, meaning jwan is the jin equivalent of voo.

4. just like bts teased both taehyung and seokjin by calling tae "voo", they can tease jin by calling him "jwan", doesnt mean they made it up themselves. and its very fitting for jikook to roll with funny nicknames of the members (jimin teasing voo, jk's rrrrap monsta, for example)

it doesnt even have to do anything with ships, it just makes sense that its tae, and maybe it became an inside joke or just a form of teasing among the members.

hello im the anon who sent you the long why i think jwan is made by tae anon! you havent replied to yet (take your time!) but i just wanted to add that if i had known about this video id use it in my ask too! they said jwan right after namjoon mentioned "v", and tae's expression too.. anyways my og ask explains it better but it totally fits imo :) (i just wanted to add this as another reason, by no means i am pressuring you to post the other one! take your time, dont feel like you have to answer this one sooner because of it, not at all! if anything they should come together and at any time you feel like it)

Me: I had to read this 10 times to process everything so it was impossible to answer you on CC lol. I think I get it all now, and since you explained in full detail I don’t think I need to elaborate. I agree with it. I remembered thinking Jwan sounded very unique and the first time we’ve ever heard of it was in that Q&A. Also his explanation was (if I recall correctly) - that was what he apparently called Jin back then when they were still trainees (?). They probably made the nicknames Voo and Jwan for each other and the other members picked it up as well. I agree! Making cute nicknames isn’t exclusive to just Taejin and the other members make nicknames for each other as well :D

Q2: I kept having this talk with some fellow taejinnies, about how taejin's dynamic changed right after their holiday and BV4, and we were all waiting for newer episodes of run, just to see this in a more different setting than their concerts. The latest episodes have been a total mix from different timelines, but I can't help to notice the stark contrast from last tuesday's episode to this week's. I know, there were other people there, but let's say we compare last week's to the one in the car shop for hyundai, or the 100th (?) special episode with the guns and game playing. Taejin's dynamics is so, so different. Idk if it's because Tae decided to put on a more serious face and refuses to do much skinship and be cute, or it's because they're trying to stay low. I can tell that if before he used to be super loud in his affection for Jin, now they act as if they're in two different worlds. Maybe it's just me and I'm overreacting, but that time when he wanted to laugh and just suppressed his smile is still painful for me. Maybe he doesn't want to show his bias all that much and wants to protect Jin more? Maybe one day you will consider making a comparison between taejin before september 2019, and after. I'm curious to see your pov on this and if other taejinnies see it as well.

Me: I haven’t actually completed the 2020 timeline, I get a huge headache whenever I try to work on it. There’s a few factors in the first half of 2020 period that affect our observations. Naturally, covid- affected everyone’s moods. Second, Tae very visibly showed signs of being down and in a slump during the quarantine period. Third, all the episodes were jumbled up and there is a lack of live shows. 

In general, they’re more focused on recording when it’s for Run episodes. Since it’s a controlled filming duration with many staff around.  Since I answered so late and BE is already out, we’ve established his slump with Blue & Grey during that period but otherwise I can assure you that their affections for each other hasn’t changed, it's what they choose to show us that’s changed. A 2020 timeline will have to wait but a 2019 one will come sometime this month! About that episode where he suppressed his smile, it was definitely part of his burnout and he was really holding back on expressing his emotions. But if you think about it, he managed to keep a neutral expression the entire time but couldn’t help that smile on his face when he saw Jin being cute that he had to physically suppress it, I think that says a lot. Jin really is a source of happiness for him. 

Q3: Yeah, that's the thing that always stands out to me, that whenever taejin do smth like that, the members remain silent. Like this hand kissing, the butt slap, the water fight in the jacuzzi and also the "fight" in the train in sweden. But when tkk kissed each other's cheeks, the others were on the floor laughing. It can be that they're used to taejin being like this, since they are a couple, or they just don't want to get in the middle of it. Another great example is taejin "bickering" or joking around in the supermarket or in the car with yoongi, but yoongi never says anything, just laughs it off.

Also, I wanted to say smth about the hand kiss. To me it's the most meaningful for a big reason: because when my boyfriend does it to me, it just feels special. When he does it on the cheek it's sweet (my siblings and parents can do that too), when he does it on my head or forehead it's endearing (again, siblings and friends can do it too), but when he does it on my hand, it's both romantic and chivalrous. Makes me feel like I am wanted. And in no way do my friends, family or siblings kiss my hand at any point. And Jin is smart, he knew exactly what he was doing. All kisses were intimate, but I have a feeling that namjoon did it with his nose and not lips, for the same exact reason, because it would have been a bit too much. Tae also gave him the other hand, after namjoon had *asked* for it, not taken it like jin lol. So yeah, it's a special moment for my taejin heart.

Me: So this message was a response to this “I just had a query regarding Tae reciprocating JK's Cheek kiss on 2018 Army Zip. JK is younger than him, ok, but then the others except RM kissed Tae but he only chose to kiss back JK. What could have been the reason?”

I think it's both, members choose not to get involved with Taejin in general unless necessary because they’re a couple. Recent examples, Tae trying to lift up Jin’s shirt during MOTS ON:E and the other members automatically backed off, and the BE vlive when Jin sort of screamed at Tae if he wanted to go naked and the members just stood back and watched. Most of the time, people don’t even think about kissing the hand. Most obvious choices are typically on the head or face. Namjoon and Tae are close, but clearly not in that sort of intimate relationship to want to grab Tae’s hand at will to kiss it. He asked for permission, as Taejoon usually does because they respect each other as friends, and Namjoon bumped his nose instead of kissing it. I’m not sure if that was Namjoon’s way of ‘softening’ the impact of what Jin did or because he just wasn’t comfortable with kissing Tae anywhere. Either way, I agree with you that Jin’s hand kiss was pretty chivalrous and the fact that the other members were dead silent instead of laughing was a dead giveaway. 

Q4: about the editing - i think bh wants to show us how all 7 are very close irl, its not just a narrative. if they excluded every taejin moment, it will falsely imply there might be no moments between them at all - and people will start questioning whether theyre even friends. therefore, they have to balance and include moments for all ships. some get more and some less, for various reasons (for example, fans demand, entertainment levels, etc), but theres no ship that has no moments at all. + it would be very weord and misleading to exclude every taejin moment, so they choose moments that can come off as cute and brotherly in their eyes, so people will know they are close but still wouldnt know too much. and taejin can be pretty entertaining and their moments do show various parts of their personalities so its impossible to ignore that. also, some moments are so subtle that are easy to miss, especially when you edit months worth of content. + lastly, lets not forget that bh knows all ships have some sort of demand from fans, so they show all of them both as a way to be transparent about the close bond between all of them, but also, to some extant, to please all fans. to the misinformation anon - no one ever said the blanket kiss was real, we all know its an ALMOST kiss with a convenient camera angle, we just like to joke about it. also its not a kiss but its still pretty intimate so i dont understand whats wrong.. the wallpapergate- looks exactly like jin, even non shippers said that before, and some others used the "they always have members pictures as a wallpaper" explaination on it. anon, i hope youre doing your research and decide to love taejin for taejin, and not let people distract you from it 💜

Me: Was I too harsh in the previous ask? Lol. My bad. On the internet I can’t tell the person’s tone and nuance and I get quite a number of messages daily so my brain is constantly rolling for answers. I suppose there’s some truth to that. SOOP is probably a good example. There’s a little bit of everything. Although I don’t know to what extent they pay attention to these things. (If they really do) BTS editors never have to worry about how to show they’re close in real life, because they’re genuinely close, so it's more of what to include to increase entertainment or comedic factors? And some members are closer in the sense that they spend a lot of time together, chat more often, have more common hobbies regardless on camera or off cameras and it naturally translates into the videos that we see. For eg, Jihopekook who met during their vacation back in 2019. Or Vmin who immediately caught up with each other as if the one month didn’t happen. 

Q5: about spring day in mots on:e.. i actually see the hug as them comforting each other. it was really obvious that taejin were frustrated during d2, they both talked about it on their ments. seokjin got teary eyed and taehyung actually cried. while everyone talked about how happy they were on d2, taejin talked about being frustrated and missing us a lot. spring day is very emotional, especially during these times where they dedicate it to us, and it does hold a special meaning to taejin. i think taehyung got emotional and searched for seokjin for comfort, and seokjin was emotional too and found comfort in taehyung, and thats how the very emotion filled hug was born. and then after taehyung cried, they went to give their final bow, and seokjin stood next to him like he always does when he cries. i find d2 filled with taejin comfort moments. 

Me: I think they are each other’s comfort and home as well. The hug was, but I doubt the attempt to put the mic under Jin’s shirt was. Lol. 

Q6: I saw a popular Youtuber (whom JK knows) reacting to a BTS Ship Video. There was Namjin, Vkook, Jikook (The Youtuber acknowledged Jikook), Sope & Jihope. No Taejin. I felt bad as to how can people always ignore something as qualitatively clearest as Taejin? TBH, Namjin Vkook & Jihope looked straight out "not romantic at all". Namjin looked brotherly while Vkook & Jihope looked just too clingly bros. It's either the majority Armys are "blind" or they "act blind".

Me: I really like the term qualitatively clearest. Some people might already have preset biases and as we know, ML biases tend to hype ML moments more. Besides that I suppose not everyone pays attention to these things, especially not Taejin. Honestly, Taejin is very confusing and doesn’t make sense when you first look at them. They’re very inconsistent so in that sense I get how they go past most people’s radar. They’re not just a ship. And that’s what most people look for. 

Q7: Hello! I am a relatively new Taejinnie. I became an Army because of V & I was initially surrounded by a lot of Taekookers. I love Jin's personality & I hate it when the Armys around me reduce Taejin's relationship into "mother-in-law & daughter-in-law" despite of Jin being so Manly. They make fun of Taejin coz they fight a Lot. They also hate Jimin. I personally feel that Taekook can never be real especially when there's a whole Park Jimin existing around JK 24x7. JK has a special spot for Jimin

Me: Welcome baby army! Jin is indeed a gorgeous man, he should never be reduced to anything less than the splendid person he is. :) I’m so glad you don’t listen to those stereotypes of the members. I don’t understand how anyone can hate Jimin, Bangtan’s comfort fairy. I hope you find better army friends who can appreciate how precious all 7 of them are in this fandom and enjoy your journey here! 

Q8: I personally feel that there's a connection between Yeontan & Jin and there's a possibility that Jin was the one who gifted Yeontan to Tae because 1) The year in which Tannie came to Tae's life, Taejin were literally like a newly Wed couple. 2) Tannie was first introduced on Jin's Bday that year. 3) Tae asked Jin if they should get a sibling for Tannie. 4) We saw everyone's video with Tannie, except for Jin. 5) Tae asked Jin to come to Weverse, &  posted a pic of him with Tannie on bed. 6) LOV

Me: I answered you in my cc before! Since this is all wild speculation I can’t dismiss the idea or possibility of it but I can say it’s never crossed my mind and it doesn’t seem likely? Because an anon reminded me that Tae personally went to get advice on how to raise a puppy before actually getting Yeontan. Although I definitely think Yeontan and Jin are much closer than what we see on screen. 

Q9: So, I was watching Tae's Vlive which from the night after Taejin's Burn The Stage fight. When the Live started, I saw Tae's red eyes & running nose, probably because of all that crying. Then after a while his mood got brighter. He played songs like "Can I lay by your side" "I am a Fool for you" & also a song like "Take it off for me...??..." with 18+ lyrics. Do u think all these had something to do with Jin? Beside, in that live, he took all of their names except for Jin's.

Me: He mentioned everyone except for Yoonjin. Hmmmmm I’m not sure… Tae was still very chaotic in 2017 so I can’t really tell if it was just him being him or those songs had something to do with his mood after fighting with Jin. I know he was very affected by it, just not sure how much of it came out in that vlive. I wouldn’t put it past him though, since he tends to be expressive and all. Maybe the ending part? He was extremely hyper and animated. 

Q10: Hi! I am new to this fandom & I found this blog of yours. I really like Taejin's chemistry. What I have observed in Taejin till now is that they have a push & pull relationship. Not sure if they r dating. They got along well from the start but then there was that Burn The Stage fight which literally drowned BTS' First Ship. Taejin decided to sing EIIDIY in 2018 to show people that they have grown closer. And thus, we also got the So What Moments.

Me: Thank you! They sang EIIDIY together because they like each other a lot and wanted to sing together, the chance to do that is extremely rare :) 

Q11: Putting my Delulu Hat off, I think Taejin's spring day moments in 2020 were a bit of Fan Service. The two, especially Jin was ridiculed by other shippers for making Tae cry in the Burn The Stage Springday choreo fight. The YT & other media are filled with fake subs of Burn The Stage Fight - entertaining for other shippers & heart breaking for Taejinnies. BTS has now become globally popular, so I think they felt the need to make up for the bad impression.

Me: I don’t see any of their Spring Day performances as fanservice, personally they were all their genuine interactions. To put on fanservice 3 whole years after fighting once seems like a stretch. Taejin has made it perfectly clear that they don’t interact just to please others. 

Q12: Hello! I've been an avid reader of your blog ever since I got curious about them. Your thoughts really make sense and I've made peace with myself at finding these two really attractive together, and of course on their own, and having a beautiful relationship throughout the years (as I have never shipped two men before, and I'm a baby Army to boot too 😅, so I hope that makes sense.). Whether what they have is romantic or platonic in the end, I sincerely wish for both of their happiness. I also personally like both of their solo songs and any of the OT7 songs where their voices really stand out for me like Spring Day, Lights, to name a few.

Me: I’m really glad to see comments like yours. I too set up this blog to vent my thoughts out so I can be at peace with this pair that is Taejin as well. Have a wonderful journey exploring BTS! Shows and content is endless, I hope you have fun watching them. Welcome to this fandom :)

Q13: Most taejinnies think that it's tae's "crush" for jin the most obvious, but I think that it's the other way around. That's why we have so little tae biased tjinnies, cause V is practically the same with every member, he can stare at all of them, just like jk does. The maknaes love all their hyungs. But jin is super obvious, since he does skinship only with tae. I could never see him cuddle anyone but tae, and his softness is very loud. He initiates it 90% of the moments, really, even pied piper.

So what? mostly initiated by Jin, since tae keeps his spot all the time. Sure, he expects it, but it's Jin who runs towards him. The iconic piggy backs? Jin again. The moment with the zipper and then the one right after? Again, jin :D. Fukuoka? It was jin's boldness that made it happen. Dna? Jin does all the backhugs, tickles etc. Sure, we have some great ones initiated by tae as well, but very few. Dimple, dna iconic one, and a few others. Jin is always constant in his affection for Tae.

Me: I think part of the reason why many Tae biased army don’t see Taejin is because they’re more invested in ML interactions. Also because like you said, they can’t differentiate between how Tae behaves with the rest as compared to Jin. Because I’ve met a few Tae biases on my blog, most agree that Tae’s crush was most apparent during their earlier years but then in later years he seems to be physically touchy with everyone. It’s really hard to see without a proper overview of how Taejin’s relationship developed. As for Jin, yes to all of that. He would cuddle JK too, just not the intense and flirty stuff he only does with Tae. I love him for that, he’s really bold. He really loves Tae deeply and he shows it. 

Q14: What if it's just our imagination & there's nothing romantic between Taejin? I sometimes feel that Taejin don't feel the need to do Vlive together. Plus, people don't demand for it. I remember the Tkkrs going crazy with TK posts on Weverse whenever Tae was online & just on the next day TK did a Vlive. Considering people's love for TK they even reunited in the Soop. I think where there is a demand, there's supply. Same thing happened for Jikook. The Jikookers sent mails to BH after TK Vlive. Hi! I am the same anon talking about the Vlive thing. Now if u say Namseok ain't a popular ship still they did Vlives, I guess that's bcoz both r 94liners. BH is comfortable with Maknae line Vlives & Hyung-line Vlives, coz I don't think there's any Jinkook Vlive either even though they r the most comfortable with so. Jimin is the oldest of the Maknaes, so we got the Minimoni, YoonJinmin ones. Also, I think the Tkkrs sent mails for Namjin Vlive to prove their Ships right.

Me: Umm… this entire message don’t make sense. Jinkook vlive exists, btw. And BTS don’t do vlives after they read emails, or else taekook would have done 134340 vlives by now. 

Q15: have you seen the interview where seokjin points out that taehyung's farher is very talented and then taehyung complimenting seokjin by saying he has his mother's way with words? this is so cute to me, it feels like a little taejin bubble in the middle of the interview 🥺 its soooo romantic and soft to me

Me: Tae saying he has his mother’s way with words really screams domestic. This, after the few times he posted videos of himself talking to Tannie in Jin’s parents satoori on twitter. Yeah… the implications there... 

Q16: another taejin moment that i cant find a platonic explanation to is when they asked tae what he wants as a christmas gift and seokjin said "seokjinnie's love?" without even blinking while leaning down to look at taehyung and then proceeding to smile shyly.. also the members reactions? that "oh my god" came out as a panicked instinct, its not like the things they say to cover something up, it was just pure shock. and then "as long as its not that" and taejin looking flustered.. no explaination.

Me: I would add it in if tumblr isn’t so terrible… I haven’t been able to edit any of my older posts!

Q17: Those 2 moments happened on Muster V concerts (2 day in seoul, 2 days in busan, just 4 concerts as a muster-fan meeting- concept) For that first pied piper moment, when Jin was wearing more small-detailed shirt than the other moment (seoul-day1), it was a surprise move, Jin was off-guard and reacted that way. In the seoul day2 pied piper they did not do it. They were tensed at the end of the song. Muster 5 was just 2 days in seoul, and a month later 2 days at busan. The second pied piper moment was in busan. On the first day busan, tae did the same move but this time after he did jin reacted the same way but did not flinch and moved his body as much as the first one, this time jk on the front was not surprised he was just smiling, jin did blink to tae when lights went off and tae hit jins butt softly as an answer (it is on taejin channels, fancams). And on the second day they did not do it again on busan. The first day was published as a dvd of muster V, and that taejin moment was cut of, at that exact moment the camera zoomed JK's face all of a sudden. If it is a fan service why they didn't put it on dvd, why cutting that way. It is a famous moment, it should be highlight if it was planned. Also, the first one jin surprised, tae looks more deep, others looked annoyed while lights getting darker.On the second one Jk smiles at them, jin blinks tae laughs when lights goes off. When they did the first one, it was a problem for the performance, tae acted on his own. they had to come with an idea to clear the impulsive movement of tae. On the second day they didn't find a solution, but the busan it is like " you should do it again", thays why jin's face is more exaggerated but did not flinched with his body and he blinked after lights went off. After that musters, they have changed the positions of tae and jin. It is a heavily timed dance, they get down on their one knee with 1 second delay, you have to remember that, and hard to time it. Why would you change positions of members after they perfected the dance? Tae was looking jin most of time, in busan day1 he even stopped to watch jin on the big screen in the middle of performance (you can watch nuna V's channel, V focus). Just had to get out of chest, everyone saying it's fanservice

Me: Hehe yes, I saw the fancams before. Since you explained it in detail already, I have nothing more to add. On the surface it all seems like fanservice. With Taejin its a little more tricky. Just one comment, I find it funny how the camera ‘panicked’ and zoomed away from Taejin when Tae held Jin. Tae is smart and funny, he did that on the day they recorded for the DVD so that it would be captured forever but this cameraman somehow evaded. Nevertheless, Pied Piper was still captured. Sad that they changed the positions after!

Q18: The main reason why we won’t get a taejin vlive is what happened today. “Do you want to go naked” and “please undress me”. Something you would definitely not expect but it doesn’t surprise because it’s taejin, I think they have a lot of freedom during lives because the staff can’t do anything in front of the camera 🤭 well anyways I’m still waiting for a taejin vlive one day 🥺

Me: Taejin in a nutshell: Unexpected but not surprised. Hahahaha yes each time this happens we just confirm the fact that we won’t get a Taejin vlive but I’m still gonna hope for it anyway!

Q19: I’d love to see the posts about 2018 and 2019, I’m patiently waiting 🥺

Me: Wait a little more! I’m working on it. 

Q19: I think the most vulnerable I’ve seen Jin was in bv3 Malta, for me, he tired his best to hide his feelings, he couldn’t show how much he missed tae, so he had to suppress his emotions, the way he looked before they all said I love u to tae, the way he turned to look at tae and how tae straight up came to Jin but hobi hugged him first, he might be hard to read but I think bv3 showed us a glimpse of his vulnerability, I really feel bad for bv3 Jin, cause it was the first time I saw his raw feeling

Me: BV1 as well! We got a glimpse into his raw emotions and how deeply he really feels for and needs Tae. It made me realise how good he is and to what extent he usually suppresses it. And when he goes all out to express it, we can see just how much he really loves and needs Tae. 

Q20: Not an ask but I really love yoontaejin’s relation. He is always there with them, he was, he is and he’ll always be. I don’t think there’s any taejin moment with Yoongi not being by their side lol, the way he always watches them over reminds of your best friend who would hang out with u and ur crush just to make fun of you later, no matter how many times he puts up his unbothered face, he really enjoys being in btw them, the fondness his eyes show off just sums up everything 🥺

Me: I think the most magical things happen when Yoongi is with them hahaha. He may roll his eyes sometimes but he loves the both of them so much. He’s so fond of them. Afterall Jin is his eternal roomie and he absolutely can’t say no to Tae too. 

Q21: Tae’s absence probably gave an opportunity for jimin to seek comfort in Jin, I think Jinmin were the ones who were most affected with Tae’s absence so makes sense for them to become close, I love seeing them make fun of tae, or siding together to tease tae, jimin’s love for Jin grew stronger in Tae’s absence but is overshadowed sometimes, idk Jinmin are just special for me, forgive me if this doesn’t make any sense 🥺

Me: Jinmin needs to be appreciated more! Both of them are comfort fairies and give the best hugs in bangtan. Jinmin are the two who understand Tae at the most fundamental level and see each other as equals. For Jimin, this is probably expected, but for Jin it’s a bit more special since he’s their senior. Some of my favourite parts in the SOOP was seeing Jinmin hang out together in the gaming room with Yoongi.

Q22: Apart from namjoon, who do you think freaks out upon seeing taejin being taejin and why, btw love ur work here 👏🏻

Me: I think this is obvious? Namjoon > Hobi. Both of them can’t lie and their expressions are really honest whenever Taejin is up to no good. You could say they’re the most responsible and cautious people in the group? 

Q23: I’ve never seen any ship videos before, I first met with tj and I’m still sticking onto them, I haven’t tried to give other ships a chance or something, I got fixed with them, despite the lack of taejin content during the quarantine period, we got a lot of subtle moments and it is that subtleness which keeps me fixed on them, if there’s nothing to hide, then why those subtle touches and stolen stares, why that change in expression when he is flirting with someone else, why the tension 😶

Me: I don’t watch ship videos either, but it’s totally fine to hype and celebrate all the other pairings too :) I’ve never felt ‘bored’ with Taejin and they’re honestly a handful for me already so I get what you mean, considering I’m running this blog and a cc account I’m very much fixated on them lol. 

Q24: The way tae wanted to apply lipstick on Jin’s plump lips and how Jin didn’t want that to happen. He really asked “do you want to get naked ?”. Is that Jin’s version of punishment or something, and not at how tae openly spread his hands for Jin to ‘punish’ him. And now Jin looked at Tae’s chest as if he wanted to rip it open. Well applying lipstick is better than ripping Tae’s shirt off, another reason for no vlive, btw love ur work here, ur doing an amazing job.

Me: Jin started it and he gay panicked, while I’m just laughing down here. He is just so chaotic, I really have to thank him for giving us such a precious moment. Thank you!

Q25: How do you think each of them would’ve reacted if taejin came out with their relationship ? And who would’ve accepted easily and who wouldn’t have ? My English isn’t very good so pardon me if there are any mistakes 🥺

Me: Yoongi and JK. Would probably be the easy going ones. Not because they don’t care, but because people should live the way they want to. The rest, not so? It’s not a matter of who accepts or not, all of them love Taejin, it’s just that they’re more cautious because they all want to protect each other and something like this is very impactful to their career. 

Q26: The thing abt their matching bracelets, it does seem like it’s their couple bracelet, but even if it isn’t I wouldn’t be surprised, taejin really try to keep things subtle and calm, and I love your work here, I wish I had found it sooner, your hard work should be appreciated 💕

Me: Thank you! As for the bracelets, I think it’s safer to say it’s Wooga gang bracelets, since he did specifically mention them in his vlog. I feel appreciated enough when you leave comments :)

Q27: Hi! I'm a JK biased Army

When I first became a fan I noticed the beautiful bond between JK and Jin, I'm not really into shipping but I really liked their relationship so I somewhat became a Jinkooker

At one point (maybe I still do), I thought JK had some special feelings towards Jin - Some of the things he does are questionable to me, sometimes lingering on the romantic side, however, this could be also his way of showing his admiration for Jin (I really don't know what goes on in JK's head haha)

I do feel like JK is Jin's favourite, but in my gut, something didn't add up- What many Jinkookers saw I couldn't wrap my head around, it was too far fetched (I really don't want to discredit anyone perspectives or feelings, this is just how I see things) for me to see them as a couple

I started to notice how Tae behaves around Jin, it's just so different to which he behaves with the rest- It was kind of beautiful to watch so I payed more attention to them- I compared how Jin is with him compared to the others, their whole vibe just oozes romance and attraction - So once you notice them, you can't really deny it so I had to put my Jinkook glasses off and admit to myself that if there is a couple within BTS it must be Taejin, because I have no other way of explaining their behaviour towards each other than that of a couple (or at least two people who are attracted to each other) 

That's why I came here, to look for validation of my perspective and I'm glad I found your tumblr because it gave me the validation that I needed and that I wasn't just seeing things (unless we're all clowns)

Sorry for the 'essay' (and my English) but I just wanted to let you know that I'm not a Tae or Jin biased Army, and that I do see what is going on between Taejin, it's kind of undeniable at this point, no matter what your original ship is

Thank you for your very well written informative blog, stay safe and enjoy BE 💜🎹🎻📸

(Curious Cat isn't a fan of full stops/periods)

Me: I think we can all agree with that- what goes on in JK’s head? Hahaha he has many endearing quirks and habits and the ways he shows love for his hyungs. 

I felt the same way :) There were too many things that didn’t add up and I had to try hard to look beyond all the shipping and everything that shippers claim to make sense of what I was seeing. Once I saw it, it was impossible to unsee or deny them. Hahaha I’m very aware of that tiny possibility that we could all be clowns here. Thank you for leaving me this really sweet message! I love Jinkook’s bond, it is unique in it’s own way. You’re my first JK biased army who told me that they see Taejin’s bond for what it is and I can’t be happier. You’re welcome here anytime, I’m just glad this blog was of some help to someone. I hope to see you around again :)

Q28: I just wanted to ask something ,I recently was watching that spring day YouTube one ,under that there were so many comments saying jk jealous ,rm is jealous,I got very angry and upset ,then there was this reply to those comments that the cycle never stops ,try to be considerate to all the ships in bts ,if the same thing was done by jk and tae you would have said jin jealous ,so just enjoy the moments as they are , don't read into it ,now I know taejinnies would never do something like this but it made me think,like that in the soop jk and jin they were hugging and tae was there and everybody was like he is jealous , aren't we just being hypocrite here ,we can just enjoy that moment without saying somebody is jealous, how are we any better then others, I am just very confused

Me: So I shared this question in my cc and there were a few Taejinnies who gave their perspective on this issue and I think it was a great discussion. I’m just going to paste everything here for better organisation. 

Anon 1’s opinion: Dear anon, first of all, we can't control what other people think or say, but we can share our opinions with others if everyone wants to have a civil discussion.

Second, people interpret moments differently based on what they believe or based on the limited knowledge that we have. So it's all just harmless interpretation.

Third, i used to think "jealousy" is all negative but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. In real life, "jealousy" isn't really something we have control over. When i was still in school, i remember i used to really get jealous whenever my bestfriend or some other female classmates got close to my now-husband. That time we weren't even in a relationship and yet i realized that my jealousy was very much real. I just couldn't help it. Being "jealous" is just part of human nature. Just like how Tae once told the audience how the members got jealous because Tae spent alot of time with his Hwarang hyungs & said "i love you" to them. "Jealousy" can sometimes be platonic too, you know? Like a child getting jealous because another sibling got more love & attention from parents, or a friend getting jealous because their friend is spending more time with someone else rather than them. "Jealousy" doesn't necessarily have to be all romantic.

Now on to the part where other fans interpret that Spring Day taejin moment as "jk jealous" or "rm jealous", while we interpret it as "the other members looks so done lol". We can't change what others think but we can just share our opinions under the comments section. Some may agree with us, some don't. And that's totally normal.

Now compare that Spring Day Taejin moment where ALL members were looking at them to the ITS Jinkook moment where the only person who briefly "side-eyes" Jinkook during that hug was Tae. If Tae wasn't bothered he wouldn't have spared a glance. But he kinda did give them that look? So...is it wrong or hypocrite for us to interpret it as "jealousy"? In my opinion, we're just reading body language that we saw through the screen. That's it. And like i previously explain, it depends how you take "jealousy" as. If you take "jealousy" as something all negative & must be romantic then you're probably going to feel angry & upset whenever other shippers interpret a moment in a different way. For me personally jealousy is just part of human nature.

Just my 2 cents. I wish i could explain all this briefly but i'm not good with words like purple-ktj 😂😂😂😂😂

My response to this: There's a lot of good points in there! ☺ thank you! 

A summary of what was said, different shippers will interpret a moment depending on their biases. 

Jealousy isn't always a negative trait, and there are different types. 

And the last point is context. I've mentioned it numerous times before, and I'll mention it again. Context is Important. Is there a reason? Does it make sense? Stuff like that. The same thing executed differently can have a vastly different meaning. Two very different instances can be similar in terms of 'vibes' or 'feel'. One mold doesn't fit all. Be smart with your observations. 👍

Anon 2: Isn't it hard to give a concrete answer to this? 

For me, it's alright to say this person looks jealous, if you truly feel like there expression shows it. But know your limit and never put down any bond the boys have. And for god's sake, never say A is doing this to make B jealous. And always saying A looks jealous at every opportunity that arises just shows your own toxic mentality. And don't go under a ship focus post or video and talk about your OTP. It's just disrespectful. 

The examples you showed can't exactly be compared too. In Spring Day, it's clear as a day that JK and Joon were smiling at Taejin. So someone saying they look jealous is just projecting their own feelings. They wanna basically say 'Taekook/Namjin/Taejoon/Jinkook real'. 

Ultimately it all depends on you. I don't think it's hypocritical to call out the above mentioned behaviour and think Tae looks off while drinking the wine in ITS. As long as you respect each and every bond in BTS. If you don't wanna say any one is jealous, that's alright too. But I think people can be close and still feel jealousy sometime. It's a normal emotion. Sometime being the key word.

My response to this: Yeah most importantly don't put the other's bonds down. Many yt channels get rude comments about other pairings when they're specifically there for their own favourite pair. 

Also, I agree that these two instances aren't very comparable in the first place. If you have a sensible reason to see that Tae's behaviour was a little off during that moment in the SOOP then be confident in your observation. You can have an opinion without being unnecessarily assertive or easily swayed by what others say. 

Adding my 0.02 here, might as well, I personally think Tae was affected by holding back and restricting himself from physical touch with Jin while being filmed 24/7 and seeing Jinkook getting cosy freely probably triggered him. 

Anon 3: ah, fellow taejinnie, you don't have to be confused, it's just problematic shippers being problematic. this used to make me irritated too but i just ignore it these days. the facts are that BTS, as in *all 7 of them* love and care for each other; no one's jealous of anyone. there are just some people out there with narrow mindsets who only care about their ships. every community has a few toxic shippers, it's just the way people are.

you're right, you know, we /should/ just enjoy the moment and be proud of them. sadly not everyone thinks that way, but … it is what it is. we can just ignore those people and focus on supporting our boys, as in all 7 of them. people who say so-and-so is jealous when two members are showing their appreciation for each other are just making it up to fit their personal narrative. (this is different from being possessive, which i definitely understand as a taejinnie, but that's a different topic haha.) the meaning of jealousy is envious resentment; BTS have been together for too long and care about each other too much to be jealous over such petty things. not least when it's one member being close to another, it just makes no sense.

people just need to understand that /all/ the members love each other very much. don't let the problematic shippers get to ya 💜

My response to this: Hahaha this whole jealousy and possessive thingy really feels pretty 'odd' in a tight knit group in BTS. It's not the toxic, destructive jealousy we see in movies. There is some healthy friendship jealousy over the years and Taejin's one is more unique than that. We just need to think a little to be able to distinguish those and also not get swayed by other's comments. Ultimately all of them love each other very much, they wouldn't have come this far otherwise. 

Idk if this is from the same anon 3 but here’s a reply: i think jealousy within a group of friends is normal if its not too much. its natural too. it makes sense the member will be a little jealous sometimes. for example i have my closest friends group and weve been friends for 12 years now, and still sometimes when my bestest friend chooses to idk walk hand in hand with another close friend if us from the group i get a tiny bit jealous for a fraction of a second, and then it passes. you cant control the first instinct, and as long as its not too much and toxic, theres nothing wrong with it! its normal when you care so much about a person, you just want to be close, it doesnt have to be romantic. jimin even said once that he gets jealous and posessive over his friends and "wants them to himself", its very common and it depends on your character.

In conclusion:

1-The main problem here are the shippers and how they project their opinions on it. 

2-Is there some truth to it? Jealousy is not always the destructive emotion you see in movies. 

3-Does it make sense? Like one of the anons said, both situations aren't comparable. 

4-Like you said, you could totally ignore what the toxic shippers say and just enjoy that moment without linking it to any ships. 

This ended up getting really long but I hope whatever was said here helps you to form your own opinions and conclusions and you're less confused!

Q29: Have u ever thought what if we all are just half right about Taejin's relationship? I am not denying Tae's crush on Jin, which was more clearly evident till 2018. What if at some point Tae expressed his feelings to Jin but Jin couldn't accept him because he is straight & later became more fond of Tae coz he somewhat feels guilty of not being able to accept Tae as a lover. And that Jin can't help but feel jealous sometimes knowing that Tae likes him but still does fanservice with other men.

Me: Nope, I’m confident I’m at least 95% right so I don’t have such thoughts at all. 

Q30: Hi, I donna want to ask anything, just want to share my point of view. Im new Army, since during this pandemic,I have so many hours to stream internet, and ofcourse KPOP is my aim. I really falling in love with Epiphany, It likes mental healer to myself in forgetting my past without regret it. At first, I dont realize about Taejin since it not famous ship. I looked into taekook first,and then namjin, ouh ok. From my POV, Taekook just about analyzing a moment,slowmo or describe some events that happen between them, and Namjin, I know RM needs people like Jin to support him because JIN is deeper thinker and good motivator. And then,I read somewhere in magazine, The question ask to JIN, whose the closest member? The answer : V. Me like : ouh, ok. some post about Taejin pop up in my IG, Im not sure what is about, ouh, Jin looked different when he with V,and V too. The moment they are together, likes they are close and be a different version of themselves. V looked matured and protective and JIN looked clingy and baby. Maybe, V is the eldest in his family and JIN is the youngest in his family, so they tend to be real themselves and of course they are close with each other. And I watch BV2,3 &4 ,In the soop, and many clips,their moment no need to analyze deep because themselves already show it sincerely. Haha, ok,so long I write., just I really love to read your post. Seriously,I stalking your tumblr and donwload an apps for the first time. Bottom of my heart, I hope they dont announce their relationship because haters gonna to get ready ,~

Me: Thank you for reading my blog and writing this comment! Welcome to the fandom, baby army. I hope you have a great time learning more about the boys and their beautiful personalities and music. :)

Q31: Hello! I’ve been reading your analysis posts and I want to congratulate and thank you for your hard work! I’ve been a fan of BTS since 2015 and I’ve been a Taejinist since late 2017. And yes, my bias is Jin. How did this occur. Well, in 2017 I was enchanted by V. I was V biased, but not a Taejin shipper until I noticed THE smile he reserves for Jin. I investigated further, and through my love for V, I began to love Jin for the first time. The hidden touches and glances are EVERYTHING!

Me: Thank you :D Hello veteran army! It’s nice to know that your love for Tae led you to love Jin more as well. Their smiles for each other are indeed different! 

Q32: Have u ever thought what if we all are just half right about Taejin's relationship? I am not denying Tae's crush on Jin, which was more clearly evident till 2018. What if at some point Tae expressed his feelings to Jin but Jin couldn't accept him because he is straight & later became more fond of Tae coz he somewhat feels guilty of not being able to accept Tae as a lover. And that Jin can't help but feel jealous sometimes knowing that Tae likes him but still does fanservice with other men.

Me: I think I answered you on my cc and if I recall correctly I said this is all very unnecessarily complicated. I think you answered me back saying that you agree. Lol. 

Q33: I don't doubt Taejin's feelings towards eo but I do doubt the nature of their relationship. I mean it is possible that they are not dating eo even if their feelings have become mutual. There are some instances from recent times that have made me feel so. For e.g.., during Taekook's date in the Soop, Tae told JK that he was feeling lonely & unloved. Yoongi knew about Jin's cut from woodcarving but Tae saw only after a whole day. Also, Jin came to know about their Grammy nom. from other people.

Me: Tae told JK he was feeling lonely and unloved by army due to their cancelled performances, so he went on weverse a lot to seek army’s validation. Yoongi was with Jin when they were woodcarving, he would have to be blind to not know about it, meanwhile Tae was having a drive date with Hobi, enjoying themselves respectively. And I don’t know how Jin learning about their Grammy nomination from someone who’s not Tae has any link to their relationship. 

Context matters. 

Q34: Have u noticed this thing about Tae? Don't know the reason, but he is hesitant about any solo moment with Jin since early 2020 & Hobi comes to help. The Grammy Video had Taejinhope, the only Jin posts by Tae on weverse this year had Taejinhope. In The Soop, both nurungji & Strawberry yoghurt were made by Tae for JinHope. Vhope even planned to take Jin for the long drive which he refused. To me it seemed either for BH reasons or simply bcoz Tae is shy/afraid of Jin, he seeked help from Hobi.

Me: I’m pretty sure he didn’t get Hobi’s help when he did what he did in Spring Day for Class of Graduation’s performance. Neither did he during Dynamite vlive when he blew on Jin’s neck. Hobi helped to record the video of them at the Grammy’s at Jin’s request so that Tae had a chance to say what he practiced in English. He made strawberry juice and nurungji for whoever was awake to eat, and that was Jin and Hobi. BH has nothing to do with this and Tae is never shy with Jin, he is however considerate and very tuned in to Jin’s moods. Also Hobi loves them both. 

Q35: When I say that Jin is braver than Tae, plz believe Me. Coz all those questionable stuffs like "showering together" "sleeping together revealed in 2017 festa" "Taehyungaah I Love u (on National tv)" "interlocking bracelet gift reveal" "are u my bday gift" "do u want to go naked" were said by Kim Seokjin only.

Me: Yes, Jin is very bold at times, but this is a very one sided point of view. Please read my post on Tae’s POV and how he treats Jin differently from the other members. 

Q36: I am the one who thinks Tae is mostly hesitant nowadays & needs a catalyst to start a TJ moment. For e.g. Hobi's video of TaeJinHope during Grammy, TaeJinHope pic by V (why couldn't he post a solo pic of Jin?), his joining Jin's 2019 Bday vlive & Jin's selfie in MOTS era after the others did (it seemed to me as if he didn't plan to join but couldn't stop himself when the other's did). When Hobi lifted Jin's arm in the Jimmy Fallon show, Tae dragged him & did the same. These are only a few e.g.s.

Me: I don’t think so. He’s just more private. Tae is free to post whoever’s photos he likes, if he wants to post Taejinhope, he will post Taejinhope. I don’t see how this is linked to Jin’s birthday vlive and Tae was trying to remove his makeup because he had another schedule after that so he joined in a hurry when Jin was trying to take a selca after the press conference. I suggest you watch more of their content and remember, context matters a lot. 

Q37: Hello Purple-ktj! I am a new Army & I came across your blog last week & fell in love with your writing style. I am a Jinminkook fan & Jikook & Jinkook's bondings caught my attention. I am yet to watch all the old episodes & everything. I have watched all the new contents though, including Soop & the docu series & movies. I actually thought V's fav hyung is Hoseok coz he is always seen with Hoseok. But then I came across some Taejinnies on YT So, I came here looking for proofs.

Me: Welcome to the fandom baby army! I’m flattered you think so but I really discourage looking at my blog content for proof. Please treat all this as entertainment and watch their original content. Enjoy your journey with BTS!

Q38: BV1 taejin never fail to devastate me, it really must have been hard for them, to pretend like everything is okay when it isn’t, those secret texting in the back makes me think how hard it would’ve been for the two of them, considering it was the beginning period of their relationship, those stolen glances, subtle touches, Jin wearing Tae’s custom shirt, everything just fits in, it’s like a secret relationship, nothing can be public, but even if it is, it gets awkward, BV1 tj was just pure angst

Me: Jin wearing Tae’s shirt is the thing that stands out the most to me. The implications are very loud and telling. On the surface BV1 is really funny, but when I think twice, it was really angsty for both of them. BV3 felt pretty angsty as well because they were pining for each other. 

Q39: Hello ! I've seen many Taejinnies get confused about 2016 KKul FM timeline - it was actually filmed on April 25th as Suga notes around 2:53. That's why it has a bit of a false note - Tae and Jin seem to have worked out some of their issues during BV1. Tae notably has brown hair in BV1 and reddish-orange hair in KKul FM, because he was back to brown for Hwarang! I'm sorry I didn't send this before your updated timeline went up. I can't decide if 2016 Angst Taejin or 2020 married are my faves :)

Me: Hello! I’m a clown and I didn’t realise it at all lol. Tumblr is really not friendly and doesn’t allow me to edit any of my super long posts so… it’ll have to stay until I find a solution. So for now I’ve included it in the pinned post. Thank you for telling me.. after I posted 😂 (I’m kidding). I think 2020 is my fave! Along with 2017 :D 

Q40: There is a video by GoldTaejin12 on youtube about Mama 2016 Taejin moments. Around 1:02, when Tae and Jin are recording themselves, I find Jin's behaviour so unlike how he acts in lives with other members. Especially how he doesn't meet Tae's eyes. And laughs nervously. It's like he doesn't know how to act in front of Tae with the camera on. I find this so intriguing. He's definitely acting unlike his self. It's probably the closest to a taejin vlive we got. 😝

Me: I see what moment you’re talking about. I agree about Jin not knowing how to behave and avoiding eye contact with Tae at times but it’s not so bad in the video you referenced. It’s mostly around 2019-2020? That he doesn’t really meet Tae’s eyes and seems awkward whenever they’re close. The most recent being the BE vlive where he panicked when Tae tried to put lipbalm on him. Hahaha if it wasn’t posted on twitter it could have been counted as a really short and sweet vlive!

Q41: I rewatched the YNWA preview show and noticed something miniscule but interesting nonetheless. Before Namjoon says 'I'd rather get a kiss,' he looks at Taehyung (who was pacing back and forth) just the second before, with evident hesitation or fear on his face. I don't really know what exactly it meant, but I think that it was a smart move, as if he knew that if he were to kiss Jin he would eventually be facing Tae's wrath and choosing not to kiss Jin was his way of steering clear of Tae's fury.

Me: Oh! I didn’t notice that. The way you phrased it is funny though lol. 

Q42: i feel like we need to talk about it here as well. the things seokjin told us on his vlive really hit me hard. taehyung really asked all of his friends to send a video message for "seokjinnie-hyung"'s birthday, the he compiled everything together to one video and sent it to seokjin. he told him there are more coming, and said "just know, youre a very loved person." also, the fact taehyung waited for him until dawn to wish him happy birthday.. he really loves seokjin so so much, and the way he made sure seokjin knows he is very loved after he doubted himself makes it even more beautiful. and then we have seokjin, saying how kind taehyungie is, how much he admires him and is thankful for him.. theyre always there to support and love each other, its so beautiful. forget the selcas and vlives, this is what really matters. im so glad they have each other..

Me: Oh yes please do. I was overall pretty shocked by everything Jin revealed in his vlive. Everything else was true but the part where Tae waited up till dawn for Jin to wish him happy birthday was most likely misheard. Regardless, the whole gesture by Tae going the extra mile because he wants Jin to be happy is very devastating. I’ve been going on and on and on about the same thing on my cc as well, I’m so overwhelmed. (By Taejin I mean)

Q43: you probably got many asks about the birthday live but i have to add one more thing. the most touching part was for sure seokjin telling us aboout the things taehyung did for his birthday, but another thing that caught my attention is the way he put all the members on speaker, but never did it with taehyung.. he had no problem putting the rest of the members on speaker, and other members alwas put tae on speaker during vlives. also he called taehyung first, it was his first instinct to call him.

Me: Yes, first, Tae is always on his mind. And they were texting each other, that was really cute. Halfway through the call, it became a private conversation, just seeing his expression while he listened to everything Tae said made my heart so full. And the things Tae did for him for his birthday… my heart can’t handle any more than this. 

Q44: I am in total awe at how private Tae has become regarding Jin. I mean if Jin wouldn't have revealed Tae's sweet actions, we would have thought that Tae just didn't feel like posting about Jin (He always leaves out Jin) unlike the other 4 members who did. I am surprised how his relationship (whatever it is) with Jin is 'NOT AT ALL FOR THE ARMYS TO SEE'. He keeps Jin close to his family & friends. I am pretty sure that Tae's family & circle of friends know the truth.

Me: He’s seen the ugly on the internet, honestly, can’t blame him at all for wanting to be more private. Yes it isn’t, which is why I don’t refer to Taejin as a ship, I truly see them as a couple in a romantic relationship. There’s nothing wrong with ships, but I feel like in this case, it undermines the nature of their bond. I’m sure his friends and family knows too. 

Q45: Hi my sweet taejin blogger, how are you doing? Just a little thought I want to ask about Jin's birthday vlive. No word to describe how happy I am to hear what Tae did for Jin's birthday. It was screamed out so much of romantic, love, sweetness, couple things. So I should be happy right but somehow I feel sad bc I feel like jin's friends are not as many as he used to have anymore. He did say before that he has lost a lot of closed people . Anyways I am grateful that Tae always has been there for Jin. Please take care and stay safe. Thank you so you for keeping this blog going 💗

Me: Hello! I’m doing great, hope you are too :) Unfortunately it seems that way, he’s mentioned how he’s lost some friends along the way while being grateful receiving army’s love. I am glad too, that he has BTS by his side, especially Tae who always goes the extra mile for him because their happiness is each other. They’re all each other’s biggest support and would help each other pull through their toughest times. 

[princesskairi]

Potentially minor, nitpicky criticism to a small section of the Sleeping Realm Theory Doc. Note: This criticism has nothing to do with ship wars (at least that’s the intention!) as the doc has nothing to do with ship wars too.

This is referring to the doc’s analysis of the scene where Kairi and Sora reunite in the light tunnel under the section Riku is Light -> Light in the Darkness. Read more underneath.

————————–

My biggest criticism in this analysis is how it presents Kairi and her importance to Sora in conjunction with Riku. This criticism also calls into question some of the claims used to debunk Kairi as being the light in the tunnel.

To start off, it’s not that I dislike the suggestion that Riku is the light in that scene, it’s that to then follow up and say that Kairi is off to the side then moves and “eclipses” that light from Sora’s view is risky framing whether intentional or not. 

While it might not be the writers’ intentions, it’s dangerous to paint that scene that way without further warning/clarification as it can easily fall into the toxic rhetoric that Kairi is in the way of Sora’s realization about Riku (unfortunately, something that is not uncommon in fanon). It takes a scene that is largely meant to display Kairi’s strength and resolve to protect Sora and shifts its focal point to Sora’s thoughts about Riku, which I feel is rather unfair to one of Kairi’s few spotlights in KH3.

The light can very well be Riku’s in that scene (considering the whole “Riku! Answer me!” analysis), but to present Kairi as “eclipsing” that light, leading readers to pick up a double meaning, and then to say that it is never Sora himself that figures she is his light severely downplays Kairi’s real significance to Sora and how he views her. If it is the case that Nomura intended to have double meaning in Kairi eclipsing the light and mislead the audience to think that she is the light by having Sora claim that she is, then of course my anger would be directed towards him alone. 

The part where the writers bring up a screenshot of Namine telling Sora that Kairi’s his light to emphasize that Sora does not figure it out himself is out of fair play. It’s taken out of context. Namine explicitly tells Sora that because she’s been messing with his memories up to that point. She guides and allows Sora to remember for himself that important connection before putting him to sleep to fix his faulty memories. Even if Namine doesn’t tell Sora that, there is no doubt Sora believes it himself. In fact, Sora has already since equated Kairi to light in KH1 (before Namine reinforces it to him) in his speech with Kairi in Traverse Town. He tells Kairi that it was her voice that saved him from the darkness. When Kairi responds that she didn’t want to forget about him, it is Sora that goes “That’s it! Our hearts are connected and the light from our hearts broke through the darkness. I saw that light.” With the prior context, that’s basically Sora figuring out for himself that “that light” was Kairi’s and the same concepts can be applied to reach and save Riku too. Also, Sora does explicitly conclude on his own in KH3 to Kairi that, “The light in the darkness. It is you”. It’s strange why the narrative that Sora is being misled to think Kairi’s his light (i.e. simply told by others) has to be included to further emphasize the idea that Riku is Sora’s light (esp. when there’s plenty of evidence that Riku is Sora’s light without needing to reevaluate Kairi-centric scenes and call to question Sora’s own revelations about her)? 

————————–

Quote from the doc:

“And so ask yourself this, how is Kairi supposed to be following her own light back?”

Following the same logic, in KH1, how does Kairi, who at the time resides in Sora, also follow the light back to her flashback of her grandmother? Not only that, after her heart is restored to her own body, she tells Sora in Traverse Town, “A light at the end of the tunnel” to which he responds “Oh, your grandma's story right?” and she responds back, “That’s right, we were together”. This shows that Kairi too can in essence “follow her own light back” or at the very least experience that light from an outside perspective. But to leave it open, perhaps this ability is due to the weird oddities from her being in Sora’s body? Or a bolder take is that the light is actually Kairi’s grandmother’s light this entire time! lol! (I highly doubt that this was the intent but who knows! Unless past interviews/Ultimanias can shed some light.) In any case, before one can disprove Kairi being the light on this basis, one needs to also explain this contradiction (considering the doc makes a point that this kh1 scene is meant to be Kairi’s light).

Passage from the doc:

“And if this scene were truly meant to be taken at face value, why do we get these specific visions, inexplicably in the middle of it. Sudden visions of self sacrifice, both referred to as True Love and the reviving power it has. Except, neither Kairi or Sora had sacrificed themselves for just each other at this point, Sora tries to shield her (an act that read as surprisingly desperate and hopeless for the first sign of danger she faced, like he—his heart, remembered she was going to die in this battle no matter what) but Goofy blocked the attack and nothing came of it. And most importantly for all the danger she’s in, none of Kairi’s scenes read as self sacrificial, they read as resigned.”

As for the Disney visions, I do believe that the general takeaway was meant for Sora equating feelings of self-sacrifice, love, and care to his own situation. I do not believe it is exclusively meant for Riku and I do not believe that Kairi can not be equated to these scenes just on the merit that there is no direct self-sacrificial parallel of them in KH3 up to that point. One can argue that even if Goofy came to protect them, that doesn’t lessen the impact that Sora was ready to sacrifice his own danger for Kairi.

In any case, if self-sacrifice is a needed component to link these Disney scenes to someone then Kairi and Sora also have their share as do Sora and Riku. In KH1, Sora sacrifices himself to revive Kairi because of his love for her like how Eugene sacrifices himself for Rapunzel and Anna sacrifices herself for Elsa. Elsa and Rapunzel bring Anna and Eugene back due to their love for them. Same thing happens on Kairi’s end. While Kairi is made of pure light and has no immediate danger in getting pummeled by heartless when she hugs heartless Sora, she herself doesn’t know that she wouldn’t be in danger. That scene could be still interpreted as sacrificial to an extent. Kairi sacrifices her own danger to revive Sora with the power of her light and love for him. Same with Riku, he’s sacrificed himself plenty times for Sora out of his love for him throughout the franchise. These actions are still seen as sacrificial in nature despite Riku not actually dying at the end of it. Riku’s sacrifice (i.e. demon tide) is more recent, so these visions may better equate to Riku esp. with Sora remembering Riku when talking to Anna and others, but considering that this scene is about Sora and Kairi reuniting and Sora showing gratitude towards Kairi, it’s not fair to write Kairi off as not a trigger for these Disney scenes as well.

“This light, that Sora assumes is Kairi, but which she never confirms or denies, a light that led him to Riku’s heart originally. This light begins showing him these scenes of self sacrifice, and Sora makes a confused, jerking motion. And in reaction, Kairi is also confused. Which is weird considering if she’s the light, she would be the one showing him these visions in the first place, right?“

This isn’t quite a fair take. It’s impossible for Kairi to show these visions to Sora as she was not present when those scenes occurred. The same logic should apply to Riku. He was not present when those scenes occurred; he would not be able to show these visions either. So what gives? I don’t believe these visions are being shown to Sora rather Sora is literally remembering these scenes himself and equating them to what he feels right now in his own situation. He jerks up, which causes Kairi to be confused bc she simply can’t know what’s up with Sora’s reaction even if she is able to somehow show these visions herself. She checks to see if Sora’s okay and when she sees that he is, she states, “I told you Sora. You’re safe with me”. 

If what was really meant was that “Riku is the light in the tunnel -> Riku’s light embodies Riku’s self sacrifice, which in turn causes Sora to connect it with his own memories in the Disney worlds” then that’s a different thing and totally valid but was not presented that way in the doc. I also feel that Sora isn’t confused rather in a state of realization and coming back to reality after these visions, which explains why he’s a bit shaken up/disoriented at first with his “Ooh”. Regardless of whose light it is, I firmly believe it is Sora making these connections for himself and not the light showing them for him. Bc of this interpretation, the theory that “Kairi is the light” or “Riku is the light” is not necessarily disproven or illogical on the basis that neither one has been there to experience these Disney scenes. This is different from when the light shows Kairi’s Radiant Garden memories to Sora and is not a perfect parallel but does not need to be.

All in all, Riku’s love for Sora is integral to understand the sacrifices made to facilitate the “drops” and bring everyone to a new worldline, but I personally feel that this specific analysis of Kairi and Sora’s scene does not need to be presented in a way that makes Kairi seem like a misleading device for both Sora and the audience to realize Riku’s love/light. There is no need to disregard Kairi and Sora’s potential connection with the Disney scenes rather than simply show that these scenes are strongly attributed to Riku. There is no need to treat Sora as if he cannot or doesn’t accurately conclude what light means for himself.

I hope my criticism for this specific section does not come off as mean-spirited and I do not want this to be a playground to incite s/hipping wars either bc it’s not even about ships. To make it extremely clear, my criticism does not have to do with ships NOR do I think the theory doc is trying to force a ship onto people either. The word “love” can be interpreted however way you want: romantic, platonic, whatever. I do think that the writers were a bit too quick to dismiss Kairi as the light in this scene and that there was an over emphasis towards Riku in a scene meant to establish Kairi’s importance and I wanted to address that. If it is misreading on my part, feel free to discuss! I don’t want to put words into other people’s mouths. I am open to critique too. This one criticism doesn’t negate all the other interesting insights the doc makes. The doc as a whole is an interesting read and I offer nothing but support and thanks to those involved in the process. 

And who knows, maybe Nomura will come out and confirm that this portion of the doc is right! Then jokes on me but until then, I believe this criticism holds fair.

[mikumutual]

answers aa themed questions nobody asked because i’m cool and sexy

also i havent played the 5th or 6th games so

YOUR FAVOURITE…? 1. Favourite Ace Attorney game? honestly? phoenix wright ace attorney! everything’s fresh, there aren’t many weak characters, and the plot is remarkable (especially the fifth case). the whole trilogy is really good as one unit though 2. Favourite case? 1-4, 1-5, 2-4, and 3-5 are tied lol, i can’t make a decision to save my life. 2-1 is really really funny tho 3. Favourite defendant? as a defendant, lana skye. as a person, edgeworth 4. Favourite prosecutor? as a prosecutor, franziska von karma. as a person, edgeworth 5. Favourite ship? wrightworth obviously... ive probably put more thought into them over the last 3 years than any other ship 6. Favourite victim? probably mia fey or gregory edgeworth... but for non-relevant victims, neil marshall :( 7. Favourite murderer? shelly de killer, i LOVE that guy. but dee vasquez was very cool as well 8. Favourite assistant? maya fey!!!!!!!!!! but i like kay faraday a lot too (im so sorry ema) 9. Favourite witness? adrian andrews... or maybe iris? i mean i didn’t like iris but god what a person 10. Favourite quote? “It doesn't matter how many underhanded tricks a person uses... The truth will always find a way to make itself known. The only thing we can do is to fight with the knowledge we hold and everything we have. Erasing the paradoxes one by one... It's never easy... We claw and scratch for every inch. But we will always eventually reach that one single truth. This I promise you.” - Miles Edgeworth i made this one of my senior quotes :]

YOUR LEAST FAVOURITE…? 11. Least favourite Ace Attorney game? uh fucking apollo justice. literally what the hell was that 12. Least favourite case? turnabout visitor wasn’t very strong? i guess it’s fine as an intro, but it’s also wonky with the timeline of aai 13. Least favourite defendant? max galactica. he’s better in the anime though 14. Least favourite prosecutor? manfred von karma, obviously. i like every other prosecutor (who i know of) though, even winston payne is pretty funny in hindsight 15. Least favourite ship? “miles edgeworth/female oc”. there are a lot of bad ships though, mostly involving phoenix & his assistants. dont do that please 16. Least favourite victim? zak gramarye for kickstarting that shitty, shitty game 17. Least favourite murderer? again mvk... but also fucking frank sahwit LMAO 18. Least favourite assistant? i guess trucy 19. Least favourite witness? fuck everyone from turnabout big top unless it was the anime episode 20. Least favourite memory of Ace Attorney? repeatedly trying and failing to download the emulator for aai2 hbjsjhdb i eventually got it but someone had to send me the download fully pre-patched and i felt kinda useless DO YOU PREFER…? 21. Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? phoenix wright. fuck that “GOTCHA!” mechanic jesus christ 22. Maya Fey or Trucy Wright? maya fey. nothing personal against trucy but i just dont like aj hbjsdjhsdb also maya is really sweet and fun and she has the best sprites. she seems like she’d be a good friend, it’s too bad that she doesn’t have the time for them as a spirit medium and all :( if maya ema and kay got to hang out together itd be wild 23. Investigations or trials? trials are easier in my opinion because investigations have several things you could be doing without such a linear style, so if you miss something, you won’t really know until you wander around forever 24. College Phoenix or Hobo Phoenix? college feenie!!!!! he’s like trilogy feenie but more emotional and less witty. i like to pretend that hobo phoenix doesnt exist 25. Klavier Gavin or Kristoph Gavin? who would say kristoph 26. Ace Attorney or Ace Attorney Investigations? ace attorney but only because phoenix is in it lmao. im actually rewatching a playthrough of aai now, and playing aai2 at the same time, so while it is on the mind, i feel like the cases characters and mechanics - while loved - don’t hold up to the OGs 27. Apollo’s perceive, Phoenix’s magatama, or Athena’s Mood Matrix? i actually kinda like the mood matrix more than anything because it has a really good UI and the magatama is kinda grating. but FUCK the gotcha mechanic it is SO FUCKING STUPID and IMPOSSIBLE TO USE.  where is logic chess 28. Ace Attorney trilogy or Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies? you already know my answer to this one 29. 3D models or sprites? i do like the 3d models a lot but i like the original sprites more! imo original pixel sprites > 3D models > HD sprites. mostly bc the hd sprites are garbage (see here, here, and here) 30. Ema Skye as she is in Rise from the Ashes or Ema Skye as she is in Apollo Justice? rfta !!!!!! shes actually really nice as an assistant, esp considering the fact that we actually see her interact with her sister, which is something maya didn’t have very often. also her random appearance in aai was well appreciated by me

MISCELLANEOUS 31. Did you like what they did to Phoenix in Apollo Justice?

NO I AM SO FUCKING MAD WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT TO HIM ISN’T HE A LAWYER WHY COULD HE NOT JUST DEFEND HIMSELF FROM THE FACT THAT HE “FORGED EVIDENCE” IT WASN’T EVEN HIS IN THE FIRST PLACE SOMEBODY ELSE FORGED IT AND HE DIDN’T KNOW THAT, MANFRED VON KARMA GOT AWAY WITH A FUCKLOAD OF NONSENSE AND SO DOES EVERY OTHER LAWYER SO WHY IS IT THAT PHOENIX CAN SURVIVE EATING A POISONED GLASS NECKLACE AND GETTING HIT OVER THE HEAD WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER AND FALLING FROM A BURNING BRIDGE INTO A RUSHING RAVINE AND BEING HIT BY A CAR BUT HE CAN’T FUCKING DEFEND HIMSELF LIKE HE DOES IN EVERY OTHER CASE BECAUSE THAT’S THE POINT OF THE GAME AND ALSO HIS ENTIRE CHARACTER

32. Your opinion on Dai Gyakuten Saiban? haven’t played it! it looks pretty cool though

33. Do you think Dai Gyakuten Saiban and/or Miles Edgeworth Investigations 2 will get localised to the West? doubt it, since the creators have said that it won’t be. but the fan translations are pretty good, so i think it’s okay

34. Do you think Miles Edgeworth should get another Investigation-game or do you think another character deserves a spin-off? i mean he already has two, so i guess he doesn’t need another? like i love edgeworth but he’s not as fun without phoenix around. ngl i would play a franziska game. or a maya game, or any spinoff revolving around a side character. hell i’d play hotti game if it meant it took place in the trilogy era

35. Opinion on the soundtrack of the Ace Attorney-franchise? REALLY good. really really good. i love how each game of the trilogy has different composers but each track has the same theme and feel!!!

36. Do you like where the franchise is heading or did you prefer the atmosphere in the original trilogy? seriously absolutely completely prefer the trilogy. i’m sorry but the rush of youth and trust is way, way more enjoyable than whatever “i’m 35 and therefore middle aged” nonsense is happening in the 2020s

37. Capcom suddenly announces that Phoenix will no longer appear in the Ace Attorney franchise! Your reaction? He’s been replaced by Penny Nichols. Fuck you.

38. Capcom suddenly announces that the Ace Attorney franchise has ended for good! Your reaction? it was me i ended it

39. Would you like there to be another Ace Attorney/Professor Layton crossover game? i didnt play it but i really like the idea!!!!!! aa crossover games are really funny to me, i mean have you seen edgeworth in project x zone 2, lmao

40. Would you like an Ace Attorney anime? we have one now! honestly i don’t think it did a very good job of representing the cases, but it did do a good character remix of turnabout big top so that they’re not creepy anymore. they also did a really good job with the anime-specific cases, like the one on the train! it feels a lot better paced when it’s intended for that medium rather than just adapted.  also the childhood episodes made me cry

41. Opinion on anime cutscenes in Ace Attorney? like in 5 and 6? mm, the art style is kinda weird, and i don’t really like the voices, but i guess not everything can be pachinko and prozd

42. Would you want to play an Ace Attorney game where you take on the prosecutor’s role? YEAH ACTUALLY!!!!!! it might be kinda weird being on the right side of the screen though lmao

43. Do you like having DLC in Ace Attorney-games? uhhh i hate having to buy extra things, but i’ll admit that they are pretty funny

44. Opinion on Lamiroir’s storyline? i only played aj so if shes in other games idk but i thought she was fine

45. One thing you think the Ace Attorney games can improve on? stop having creepy characters please. also jesus christ if phoenix and edgeworth arent wearing rings in aa7 i will become the ceo of capcom myself

46. Capcom suddenly announces an Ace Attorney movie! Would you like it to be based on an already existing case or would you like an all new storyline? i mean the musical did a pretty good job of adapting existing cases, so it might as well be new. it would be kinda hard to balance the games’ timeline & character development without being repetitive or an au

47. Capcom suddenly announces an Ace Attorney movie! Would you prefer it being live-action, 3D animated or 2D animated? stylized 2D animation, probably? i would want it to feel more like into the spiderverse than an anime, though. in my dream ace attorney movie, they’d just need a high art budget, several plausible deniability wrightworth scenes, and prozd to voice edgeworth

48. If there could be an Ace Attorney crossover with whatever franchise you’d like, which one would you choose? (Does not need to be a video-game franchise) your turn to die is probably closest in characterization, although its premise is more “locked in a room” than the open-world investigation of aa

49. Opinion on recurring witnesses? (Wendy Oldbag, Lotta Hart, Larry Butz, etc.) honestly, i like them a lot! i don’t know why people hate them so much - i mean, i know lotta lied, and wendy is a horrible old flirt, and larry just kinda sucks all around. but they’re also pretty funny to have around! larry is a constant comic relief who reminds you how much better nick & edgey are in comparison, lotta is likeable as a general character (like in 2-4, although yeah, not remarkable), and wendy oldbag is really funny. she’s so fucking funny. none of you appreciate wendy oldbag’s quirks and you are SLEEPING ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

50. Do you think Dual Destinies deserved its M-rating? no idea, holy shit, it got an m-rating? i mean every game before it has had blood violence and very mild swearing, and since DD probably doesnt have anything too sexually risqué, i doubt it deserves a rating any harsher than the rest of the series

okay thanks thats all

[tomeandflickcorner]

Movie Review- Ghostbusters

The 1984 film Ghostbusters was the brainchild of Dan Akroyd, who had been a long-time believer in the paranormal.  When he first started writing the script, his intention was to have the movie center around three people traveling through time and space to hunt down ghosts.  He also planned to have the movie star himself and John Belushi, his close friend and fellow SNL alumni.  Unfortunately, Belushi’s untimely death in 1982 made that impossible.  However, in spite of the tragedy, Akroyd decided to press on with his project, and he presented his proposed script to Ivan Reitman, who convinced Akroyd to revise the premise to take place solely in modern-day New York City and then brought in Harold Ramis to help Akroyd rework the script.  Eventually, they were able to pitch the revised project to Colombia Pictures. The studio saw the potential of the proposed project and, even with the absence of a final script, they greenlit the film with the understanding that it would be ready for release in the summer of 1984.

So, I’m sure we all know how the movie opens, with the middle-aged librarian at the New York Public Library simply doing her job in reshelving some books before she gets terrorized by the sight of the old card catalogue’s contents flying out of their individual shelves and nearly running headlong into something that makes her scream in terror, right before the instant dissolve into the iconic Ghostbusters logo, accompanied by Ray Parker Jr.’s classic theme song.  But even in that opening sequence, I was quite impressed how well the effects hold up, considering this move was made in the 80s. It still looks good when the books float across the shelves on their own. Although, it occurred to me while writing this that there might be some mild confusion among younger audiences watching this movie now, considering many of them have probably never had to use an actual card catalogue in their lives.  Boy, I feel old.

We then shift focus to the movie’s protagonists, Peter Venkman, Ray Stantz, and Egon Spengler, a trio of scientists who study the paranormal at Columbia University.  At the moment, Peter is seemingly in the middle of conducting an experiment in ESP by having two people guess what’s on those ESP cards.  Basically, the gist of this experiment is to deliver a mild electric shock on the subjects every time they guess wrong.  I guess this is done in an attempt to trigger the test subjects’ clairvoyance or something. But it becomes obvious rather quickly that he’s fudging his data, as he’s only delivering the electrical shocks to the male test subject while refusing to extend the same treatment to the female test subject.  Peter’s obviously a bit of a womanizer in that regard.  When the male test subject finally has enough of the constant electrical shocks and storms out, Peter proceeds to try and charm the young woman out on a date.  However, he’s quickly interrupted by Ray, who bursts into the room in a fit of excitement. He announces that they’ve been called out to the New York Public Library in order to investigate the strange happenings that were shown in the movie’s opening.  Peter, despite trying to make an excuse to sit this one out, is pretty much dragged to the library.

It was at this point in the movie that I started to raise an eyebrow at the very presence of Peter in this movie.  Don’t get me wrong, because the whole franchise certainly wouldn’t have been as popular without this character, or the characteristically phenomenal presence of Bill Murray.  But I do question why Peter, as a character, is even here.  Yes, a deleted scene indicated that he was the one who introduced Ray and Egon to each other, meaning they might not have ever met if not for Peter.  However, Egon and Ray seem legitimately interested actually studying and researching the paranormal.  Peter, on the other hand, comes across as someone who really doesn’t want to be there. He can’t even conduct a legitimate unbiased experiment, choosing to instead use said experiment as a front for getting dates.  It’s almost like someone who hates the performing arts going to Juilliard. Like, why are you even here?

Anyway, Peter and Ray soon join up with Egon at the library to investigate the disturbance, starting with the interview with the terrified librarian.  At first, the interview seems rather straightforward, with Peter asking if she has a family history of mental illness, or if she’s currently taking any medication or drugs that might cause her to hallucinate.  This, I find, is rather smart.  From what I’ve seen, the best type of ghost hunters approach each case with an air of skepticism and try to find a more rational explanation for the supposed paranormal activity.  It’s the only way to determine if you have a legitimate haunting.  However, Peter then asks the librarian if she’s menstruating. To which the library administrator wonders why that should matter.  In response, Peter simply states ‘back off, man. I’m a scientist.’  Um, no. I’m sorry, but that was a legit question.  I’m asking as a female.  Why would the librarian’s menstrual cycle be of any significance?  Last I checked, menstruation does not trigger hallucinations. So, what’s the joke here? I don’t get it. Unless Peter is suggesting that the librarian’s emotional state might have influenced her to think she saw something due to PMS? Because that’s quite a leap in logic.  Not to mention rather sexist.  Just saying, if there was supposed to be a joke here, the fact that I have to think about it so hard makes it fail as a good joke.

Iffy attempts at jokes aside, Egon interrupts the interview to inform them that he’s got a read on the specter with his PKE meter and that it appears to be moving.  So the trio proceed down to the lower level of the library, where they find a bunch of books stacked up between the shelves, as well as the card reader completely drenched with ectoplasmic residue.  And once again, while Ray is approaching the while situation like an excited kid and Egon is gathering samples for further study, like a proper scientist would, Peter is just hanging around in the back, visibly bored and all but rolling his eyes. (Side note, really awkward line in this scene.  Ray says ‘listen, you smell that?’  Normally, when someone says to listen, they want you to hear something.  So if Ray was inquiring about a particular scent, shouldn’t his statement have started with ‘hang on’ or something?)

Eventually, the three of them come face-to-face with the Library Ghost.  However, they’re all a bit stumped on how to proceed.  Because this is apparently the first time they’ve actually seen a full torso apparition in person.  Not even Peter’s attempt at establishing communication with the Library Ghost seems to work.  Because, hey, it’s a ghost of a librarian.  They insist on people being quiet in the library.  But then Ray gets an idea.  Only his idea is to charge at the Library Ghost, shouting ‘get her!’  Needless to say, this plan doesn’t work, resulting only in the Library Ghost to instantly shift her appearance into a menacing looking creature that sends Peter, Egon and Ray running completely out of the library in terror.  (So much for the famous Ghostbuster motto of ‘I ain’t afraid of no ghost.’)

Interesting tidbit about the transformed Library Ghost, though.  The original design of the puppet they used in the scene was deemed too scary for the movie’s PG rating, so they had to set it aside and start from scratch.  But they later repurposed the initial design of the ghost for the original Fright Night, which came out the following year.

Sometime later, the trio return to Columbia University, with Peter teasing Ray about his impulsive plan. However, it comes out that the data Egon managed to gather on the Library Ghost during the brief encounter has led him to an interesting prospect. Through some technobabble about ionization rates, they theorize that might be possible for them to actually catch and permanently confine a ghost.  However, when they get back to their lab in order to report their findings, they are confronted with the college dean, Dean Yeager.  It turns out that the college’s board of directors has decided to terminate their grants, which means they’re being kicked off campus.  Thing is, I can totally understand why they’re giving Peter the boot.  Because as I said before, I have no idea why he even bothered getting the same parapsychology degree that Ray and Egon got.  Unlike them, he seems purely uninterested in actually researching the paranormal.  And the brief glimpse of his fake experiment on ESP demonstrates that he will willingly fabricate his data.  Everything we’ve seen from Peter so far seems to support everything Dean Yeager is accusing him of.  So yeah. I totally support them terminating Peter’s employment at the university.  But…why are they kicking Egon and Ray out?  They seem like the legit scientists here.  I haven’t seen any indication that they’re abusing their positions as paranormal researchers the way Peter is, and they appear to believe 100% in what they’re doing.  Is it just a case of them being guilty by association?  It would be one thing if they showed Ray and Egon trying to stick up for Peter, being all ‘if you fire him, you’ll have to fire us, too!’  And then immediately cut to them sitting outside on the curb, with boxes full of their stuff.  But they don’t do that.

Regardless of how it doesn’t make much sense, all three of them are now out of a job.  And Ray is taking it particularly hard.  Because without the money and facilities the university provided them with, it’s going to be quite difficult for them to continue their research.  Or something to that effect. However, Peter seems quite cavalier about the whole thing. Seemingly on the fly, he comes up with the idea of him, Ray and Egon opening up their own business as paranormal exterminators by running with Egon’s theory about catching ghosts.  The only thing is, for them to fully realize the ghost containment system that they have in mind, they’ll need to have a substantial amount of money.  Because the necessary materials and power system they need to keep it running don’t come cheap.  Of course, Peter’s got it all figured out, and he manages to coerce Ray into mortgaging the house his presumably dead parents left him in order to obtain their start-up loan.  Something that Ray isn’t pleased with, but Peter is confident that the franchise rights of being paranormal investigators and eliminators will make them super rich, so there’s no need for Ray to worry about losing his childhood home.  

Next up, they have to find a center of operations, so to speak, so they turn to a realtor to help them locate a vacant building they can utilize.  The realtor ends up bringing them to the iconic Firehouse, which has apparently been sitting empty for a while and is in a state of disrepair.  So much so, the ever-serious Egon finds nothing but faults in the old structure.  However, Ray, ever the optimist, falls in love with the place, particularly when it comes to the fire pole.  So, despite Egon’s objections, they end up purchasing the Firehouse.

We then cut to a rather fancy looking apartment complex, where a woman named Dana Barrett lives. We join up with her as she’s returning to her apartment with a bag of groceries.  Before she can reach her apartment, she is briefly held up by her dorky neighbor, Louis, who works as an accountant.  And he, I guess, has a bit of a one-sided crush on Dana, as he keeps inviting her over to his place for some refreshments.  While Dana is clearly not interested in him like that, she continues to graciously turn him down, though she does noncommittedly state she’ll ‘try’ to stop by at a party he’s planning on throwing for his clients in the near future.  Right before Dana retreats to her apartment in order to get ready for work (she’s a professional musician who plays cello in a symphony orchestra), Louis informs her that she accidently left her TV on when she went out, which greatly puzzles Dana as she doesn’t remember leaving it on.  This does end up being beneficial, however, because when Dana enters her apartment, the TV just happens to be playing an advertisement for Peter, Egon and Ray’s new business, Ghostbusters.  Dana, briefly watches the commercial in bemusement, but then turns the TV off, continuing to the kitchen in order to put away her groceries.  

And that’s when the disturbance happens.  While Dana is putting things away, the eggs she set out suddenly start flying out of their shells and proceed to cook on the counter.  While it takes Dana a few seconds to notice this, she is visibly stunned by the phenomenon.  Before she can recover from the strangeness of this, she hears a menacing growl emanating from her refrigerator.   Deciding to investigate the growls, Dana opens the refrigerator to see the interior has been replaced by some dimensional portal to a demonic looking realm. Before Dana can slam the door with a scream, she witnesses the image of a bear-sized creature roaring out the word ‘Zuul!’

Quick question before I continue. I know that the movie pretty much implied that Dana really had simply forgot to switch off her TV before heading out to the store and all, but was that really what happened?  What if the TV being switched on while Dana was out was another paranormal happenstance?  I know it was probably the more rational explanation, but Kid Me always kinda wondered about that.

Cut to two days later. The Ghostbusters are still trying to get their new business off the ground.  They’ve got a rather basic sign for the front of the building, which Peter isn’t too impressed with, and Ray has purchased an old hearse to function as the company car, even though the car is in need of some serious maintenance. They’ve even found a secretary in the feisty and intellectual Janine.  She seems to have a thing for Egon, though he seems to be a bit bewildered by her at first. Just look at the way he’s looking at her when she’s rabbling on about how much she likes to read.  Maybe he was expecting her to give up on making small talk with him when he retorted that ‘print is dead.’  Maybe this is the first time he met a woman who wasn’t immediately scared away by his overly serious demeanor, and he wasn’t sure how to handle that.  In case you couldn’t tell already, I ship these two so hard.

That’s when Dana enters the Firehouse.  It seems she has remembered the commercial she saw and has come to the Ghostbusters office to seek their help in figuring out what happened at her apartment two days ago.  (Side note, I do get a chuckle over how Peter popped up like a Jack-in-the-Box when he overheard Dana talking to Janine.)  Since the Ghostbusters haven’t had any other prospective clients yet, they are quick to offer her assistance.  After hearing about what she experienced, Egon and Ray immediately start formulating their hypotheses on what might have caused Dana to witness the things she did and decide to get right to work on researching the history of Dana’s apartment building and searching for any information on the name Zuul.  However, Peter volunteers to go to Dana’s apartment and take a look around.  Though it’s made very clear that he’s only doing so because he finds her attractive.

Of course, when they get to Dana’s apartment, Peter is unable to find any evidence of paranormal activity.  Even though the remnants of the eggs are still on the counter, everything else is completely normal, with the refrigerator being just an ordinary refrigerator.  Not even the ghost sniffer that Peter brought along seems to be detecting anything unusual. This frustrates Dana, who begins to partially question her sanity. However, Peter decides to be Peter and proceeds to lay on the charm, even going so far as to confess his love, even though he only met her that day. Last I checked, this isn’t a Disney movie.  I don’t think the Disney Corporation even owns Columbia Pictures (yet).  Dana, of course, is not having it and instructs him to leave.  Peter complies to her request, but not before vowing to prove himself by solving her case.  Dana simply rolls her eyes at his declaration and practically has to push him out the door.

That night, our protagonists are sitting down to a dinner of Chinese takeout, where they toast Dana as their first and only customer.  Peter, not giving up on his intent to woo the lady, voices his intent to take her out to dinner in order to keep her invested in their services.  However, Ray informs him that the food in front of them has effectively used up what was left of their funds.  It seems that the necessary repairs they had to do on the Firehouse and their chosen vehicle, not to mention the advertising costs and construction & upkeep of their equipment, has taken a sizable chunk out of their monetary account. If they don’t start making some revenue soon, they’re pretty much sunk.

As luck would have it, at that very moment, Janine answers a phone call at the reception desk.  And I do get a chuckle out of her ‘yes, of course they’re serious.’  It makes me wonder if they were getting a lot of prank calls after their advertisement started to air.  However, this particular phone call ends up being legit.  It turns out there’s a disturbance at the Sedgewick Hotel, and the hotel manager has decided to call in the Ghostbusters. Prompting Janine to excitedly press the alarm bell to announce the Ghostbuster’s first official call, which they respond to almost instantly, driving out to the Sedgewick Hotel in the newly-dubbed Ecto-1.  (Question- how much time has passed since Dana approached the Ghostbusters?  When she first walked in, we see Ray hard at work in fixing up the car’s multiple mechanical issues.  And now it’s apparently been repaired to full working order, complete with a new paintjob.  I find it doubtful that they could have completed all that work in only a day, so there must have been a small time jump at work here.  Also, there are two arcade games and a pinball machine in the Firehouse.  Which of the three purchased them?  Inquiring minds want to know.)

Upon arriving at the Sedgewick Hotel, Peter, Egon and Ray are approached by the hotel manager, the one who called them in.  The manager explains that the twelfth floor of the hotel has always experienced the occasional disturbance over the years, but it’s always been easy for the hotel staff to cover it up so the guests wouldn’t notice.  However, two weeks ago, the paranormal activity has intensified, which has left him no choice than to try calling in the Ghostbusters.  After the brief discussion with the manager, the Ghostbusters head to the elevators in order to head up to the twelfth floor. But first, we get a possibly dated joke where a hotel guest takes in the appearance of the Ghostbusters in their coveralls and proton packs and asks if they’re cosmonauts.  I had to look up was a cosmonaut was because I was not familiar with that term.  FYI, it’s basically the Russian equivalent of an astronaut.  Which basically means that the hotel guest was suspecting them of being Russians.  That only makes sense when you consider the fact that this movie was made during the time of the Cold War, when there was strong tension between the Soviet Union and the United States.

Moving on, as they make their way up the elevator, Egon and Ray admit that they never properly tested their equipment. Meaning this first mission is going to be a crash course, so to speak.  Of course, they basically do have their chance at testing out their proton packs when they impulsively fire off Proton Streams at a housekeeper who just happened to be passing by.  (Thankfully, she wasn’t harmed and only her cart got toasted.)   After the slight mishap, the trio decide to split up in order to cover more ground. As such, Ray is the one who comes across the ghost first. As those of you who are familiar with the franchise knows, it’s the green potato-shaped entity that will eventually be dubbed as Slimer.  (Although the creature was originally called ‘The Onionhead Ghost’ by the film crew, as the ghost was supposed to emit a particular odor.)  At the moment, Slimer is stuffing his face with the food on a room service cart.  Because Peter and Egon are out of earshot, Ray decides to try and catch Slimer himself, but his attempt only ends up spooking Slimer, who zooms off and escapes through a wall, leaving behind a bit of green ectoplasmic residue.  This results in the green ghost crossing paths with Peter.  To his credit, Peter seems to take it a little more calmly and contacts Ray over the walkie-talkie.  But before anything could be done, Slimer flies toward Peter almost menacingly, prompting Peter to scream (which is probably the most emotion we’ve seen Peter display so far. He didn’t even scream during the scene with the Library Ghost.)  By the time Ray appears on the scene, Slimer is once again gone, but Peter is lying on the ground, drenched in green ectoplasm.

At this point, Egon manages to contact them, announcing he witnessed Slimer entering a ballroom elsewhere in the hotel.  So the Ghostbusters head down the ballroom in question, instructing the manager to wait outside while they deal with the matter.  Eventually, they do manage to capture Slimer, but only after causing extensive damage to the ballroom, including destroying a rather expensive looking chandelier.  Although, this scene does contain a moment when Egon informs Ray and Peter of an important safety precaution involving their Proton Packs.  Because of the nature of the Proton Streams they use to restrain the ghost while the Ghost Trap is being set up, it is vitally important that they don’t cross the streams.  Because if they do, it would result in a total protonic reversal that would cause every cell in their bodies to explode.  Which is obviously a rather gruesome way to die.

Upon the successful capture of Slimer, the Ghostbusters exit the demolished ballroom and approach the hotel manager, seeking the payment for their services.  But the manager balks at the knowledge that they’re asking for $5,000. (Because I’m a nerd, I actually took the time to adjust this amount for inflation.  That price is equivalent to $12,326.42 now.)  At first, the manager refuses to pay that much.  Until they threaten to release Slimer back into the ballroom.  Now, on the one hand, I can appreciate that the Ghostbusters are in desperate need of funds at this point, and they need to be properly confiscated considering how expensive it is to maintain their equipment.  At the same time, they could have offered a slight discount, seeing as how the hotel is now going to have to pay for the damage to the ballroom. Still, we do get a nice moment of seeing Peter and Egon playing off each other.  If you watch carefully, you can see Egon trying to covertly signal Peter in how much to charge the hotel for trapping Slimer.

And thus begins the montage scene of the Ghostbusters doing their thing in busting the various spooks that continue popping up around the city as their popularity continues to grow, with them making the front page of newspapers, appearing in various magazines and even scoring TV interviews. (Along with brief cameos of Larry King and the now-late Casey Kasem.)  Of course, there is one moment in this montage that appears to be a dream sequence of Ray’s, in which he’s visited by a ghost lady who, despite not actually showing anything (the movie was rated PG, after all), clearly performs oral sex on him.  It’s a bit of a weird moment, to be honest.  Of course, that brief sequence was actually recycled footage from a scene that didn’t make it into the final cut.  The scene in question had the Ghostbusters investigating a haunting at the fictional Fort Detmerring.  Though knowing that doesn’t make the scene any less weird.

As the montage wraps up, we get introduced to our final main character, Winston Zeddemore.  He arrives at the Firehouse in response to an ad the Ghostbusters put out, asking for additional help.  It seems that the ghostly activity in the city has gotten to be too much for Peter, Ray and Egon to tackle on their own, and they’re hoping to get more assistance.  So Winston has decided to come by and apply for the job out of a desire to have a steady paycheck.  And because Peter and Ray are particularly exhausted over how busy they’ve been lately, they hire him on the spot upon returning from a bust.

Now, I probably should acknowledge the fact that Winston seems to get the short end of the stick among the Ghostbusters fandom, with him being regarded as the odd one out due to the fact that he doesn’t join the team until halfway through the movie and isn’t actually a scientist like the others.  There was even an episode of Stranger Things that brought this up.  But honestly, I think Winston is one of best members of the team.  Because he’s the everyday guy.  The one who pretty much gave us ordinary folks the hope that we could be Ghostbusters, too. And, as an adult, I can appreciate Winston’s whole attitude when he straight up tells Janine ‘if there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.’  This is a guy who just wants a job that will help him get food on the table, and just happened to end up landing the coolest job on the planet.  That is awesome!  I wanna be Winston!

The movie then cuts to Carnegie Hall, where Dana is just getting out of work after a rehearsal. She and a fellow member of the orchestra, a male violin player who Dana later describes as one of the finest musicians in the world, are complaining about the guest conductor who oversaw the rehearsal, and how the conductor in question seemed to prefer shouting at them in German rather than actually do any real conducting.  Their conversation is cut short when Dana spots Peter a few feet away, and she goes over to talk with them.  Strangely enough, Dana seems to be rather taken with Peter now.  The last time we saw these two together, Dana seemed a bit annoyed by Peter and his unwanted advances.  But here, she seems to have warmed up to him.  Were there additional scenes that showed further interactions between the two that wound up on the cutting room floor?  Because if the movie really wanted to sell these two as the main couple, they could have really benefitted from showing them interact a little more.  While the actors do play well off each other, it seems a bit odd that Dana seemingly went from viewing Peter as an annoyance to her regarding him as a friend without showing us how she got to that point.  Granted we saw her appear a few times in the movie’s montage segment, but that was only her reacting to the various news stories about the Ghostbusters’ rising fame.

Anyway, Peter reveals he was true to his word.  Even though they’ve been busy dealing with other hauntings and whatnot, they’re still working on figuring out what caused the paranormal activity at Dana’s apartment. Their research has found some information about the name of Zuul, who was a demi-god worshiped by some various ancient cultures around 6000 BC.  He was also said to be the minion of a being called Gozer.  Of course, they’re not quite sure why Dana seems to have been targeted by Zuul and Gozer, so Peter suggests they could get together Thursday night around 9 to discuss the matter more thoroughly.  Of course, Dana sees this for what it is and knows Peter is just trying to trick her into a date.  But she ultimately agrees to the arrangement, because she is now apparently charmed by his advances now.  Not sure why, but whatever.

It then cuts back to the Firehouse, where Ray is busy showing Winston how to load a captured ghost into their custom-made Containment Unit, which basically works as a jailhouse for the imprisoned ghosts.  Meanwhile, Peter is upstairs, dealing with a visit from Walter Peck from the Environmental Protection Agency.  Basically, Peck is there to investigate the Ghostbusters and check if their operation is creating a significant impact on the environment.  As such, he wants to inspect their equipment, particularly the Containment Unit.  Ultimately, Peter refuses to comply with his demands.  Now, as someone who actually has a BS in Environmental Studies, I have to admit that…. Peck is not necessarily in the wrong here.  He’s simply doing his job in investigating the Ghostbusters and making sure they’re not releasing any toxic substances into the environment.  So I don’t fault him for what he’s wanting to do.  However, I don’t think he went about it in a good way.  Especially since he really does give a pretty big veiled threat to Peter during their conversation.  Not to mention that he seems to indirectly accuse them of purposely releasing noxious gas into the atmosphere with the intention of making people hallucinate into seeing ghosts.  Because of that, I also don’t blame Peter for refusing to comply with Peck’s demands. If Walter Peck had just been a bit more professional and respectful about his intentions, things might have turned out differently.  After Walter Peck storms out, Peter rejoins Egon, Ray and Winston down in the basement, where the three of them inform him of some fresh concern of Egon’s.  The Containment Unit, it seems, is getting close to maximum capacity due to all the ghosts they’ve been catching.  To make things even more concerning, the data he’s collected from their various missions throughout the city suggests that something much bigger is on the horizon.  Which he explains with a Twinkie analogy.

However, I have to pause for a moment to really look at these last few scenes back-to-back.  This is probably a nitpick, but the continuity of these scenes seem a bit off.  If you look carefully, you see that Peter is wearing his Ghostbusters jumpsuit during his meeting with Walter Peck.  And that the jumpsuit is stained with ectoplasmic goop.  Which is exactly what he was wearing when he and Ray returned to the Firehouse during Winston’s job interview with Janine.  So, taking that into account, it seems like the correct order of events would be 1) Winston being hired into the Ghostbusters, 2) the meeting with Walter Peck, 3) Ray instructing Winston on how to operate the containment unit and then 4) Egon’s Twinkie analogy. Based on the characters’ wardrobe throughout those scenes, it seems like they all occurred simultaneously. Of course, that would put into question where Peter and Dana’s meeting outside Carnegie Hall would fall on the movie’s timeline.  Especially since Winston later will state that, as of the movie’s climax, he’s been with the company for a few weeks.  So, since the climax really starts to kick off on the night of Peter and Dana’s Thursday date, it makes sense for the Carnegie Hall scene to come after Winston was hired.  But if they had aired the scenes in the proper order, we wouldn’t have gotten that dramatic cut that the movie gave us.  Because the way the movie plays out, we immediately cut from Peter saying ‘what about the Twinkie?’ to the top of Dana’s apartment building, where a pair of stone statues of demonic creatures (known as Terror Dogs) start to break open, revealing there are real Terror Dogs encased inside the statures.  Apparently, they’ve been lying dormant until the opportune moment and are now being unleashed.  (Which is that big thing that Egon saw coming on the horizon).

As the Terror Dogs are emerging from their stone statues, Dana arrives home in order to get ready for her date with Peter at nine.  By coincidence, her neighbor, Louis, is also holding his party on the same night and, despite Dana’s best efforts at sneaking past his door, he somehow hears her moving down the hall and comes out to greet her.  Louis is crestfallen when he hears that Dana scheduled a date on the night of his party, but quickly takes in in stride, suggesting that Dana can bring Peter to the party, too.  (Dude, take the hint.)  Dana, more to appease him than anything, states that they’ll try to make an appearance. However, it doesn’t really matter either way.  Because when Dana returns to her apartment and starts to get ready, demonic hands burst out of the chair she’s sitting in and forcibly hold her down so the Terror Dog known as Zuul can possess her.  I don’t have to tell you that it is a really chilling scene to witness.  To this day, I cannot sleep with the closet light shining through the door gaps, and I blame it on this scene.

While Zuul is possessing Dana across the hall, Louis is having some paranormal issues of his own. It turns out that the second Terror Dog, this one named Vinz Clortho, has targeted Louis as his chosen vessel. Because both Terror Dogs need to possess a human vessel in order to prepare the way for their master, Gozer. Not really sure why Louis was selected, however.  Sure, he’s the only other character we’ve really been introduced to so far, outside of the actual Ghostbuster crew (and I’m including Janine in that).  But to our knowledge, Louis didn’t experience any sort of paranormal warning the way Dana did with the eggs cooking on the counter and her refrigerator becoming a portal to the demonic realm.  Unless the running gag of Louis constantly getting himself locked out of his apartment was his paranormal ‘warning.’

Anyway, Vinz disrupts Louis’ party, terrifying the guests while Louis runs out of his apartment, prompting Vinz to give chase.  (Is that why Louis got selected?  Because he was the only one who ran out of the apartment? Do Terror Dogs hunt by movement?)  Despite Louis’ best efforts to evade the demonic creature, Vinz eventually corners him outside Tavern on the Green, the well-known restaurant in Central Park.

This scene, admittedly, confuses me to this day.  When Louis is cornered and subsequently possessed by Vinz, he is in full view of the people eating at the restaurant.  But even though they all look up when they hear Louis screaming outside, they immediately go back to their meals as if nothing happened.  Did they not see Vinz standing outside with Louis? Was Vinz invisible to everyone except Louis?  That doesn’t make much sense, since Louis’ party guests, his elderly neighbor, the apartment building’s doorman and the number of people who happened to be driving by clearly saw Vinz as well.  So was this supposed to be a bit of social commentary about how New Yorkers often don’t lift a finger to help people in distress? Because I can see the reasoning behind such a thing.  After all, there was that famous news story about the homeless man bleeding to death on the ground and how nobody stopped to help him.  And there was a similar story back in 1964, when a 28-year-old woman was raped and killed while at least 38 bystanders didn’t bother to intervene or respond to her screams.  Even so, you’d think that someone in that restaurant would have reacted to the sight of Vinz.

Back at the apartment building, Peter has just arrived for his date with Dana.  While he does react to       the presence of the police who have been called out to investigate the disturbance at Louis’ party (as people had mistook the Terror Dog for a cougar), he makes his way to Dana’s apartment.   Unfortunately, by the time he arrives, Dana has already been possessed by Zuul, and is now wearing a rather provocative orange dress.  (Can’t see Dana having something like that in her closet based on what we’ve previously seen her wearing, so I’m wondering where that dress came from.)  Despite Peter’s best efforts at reaching out to Dana’s consciousness, Zuul’s hold on her mind is too strong.  Which of course leads to the iconic ‘there is no Dana, only Zuul’ line.  Though it’s important to note that Zuul refers to herself as ‘the Gatekeeper,’ and that she’s waiting for ‘the Keymaster.’  I’m sure we all know the sexual undertones of those monikers, so there’s no need for me to comment on it.

Meanwhile, Louis, now possessed by Vinz, has been picked up by the police because he’s been causing a bit of a scene in Central Park with his search for ‘the Gatekeeper.’  But since the cops aren’t sure what to do with him due to his erratic behavior, the police captain has decided to bring him to the Ghostbusters.  (By the way, I love Janine’s immediate response when she opens the door to find the cops standing on the doorstop.  This woman is awesome.)  Egon, upon seeing how the possessed Louis is making the PKE meter spike, agrees to bring him inside the Firehouse, where we get this awesome effect of Vinz’ true form appear on an infrared monitor.  Upon being questioned by Egon, Vinz explains that he’s waiting for a sign from Gozer the Traveler, who will come in a pre-chosen form.  Janine, growing a bit worried by what she’s hearing Vinz say, briefly pulls Egon aside to voice her concerns, stating she’s got a terrible feeling that something awful is going to happen to him.

The tender moment between the two is broken when Peter calls the Firehouse to inform Egon of Dana’s possession by Zuul.  At present, Peter has managed to knock Zuul out by injecting Dana’s body with 300 cc of thorozine.  (Does Peter normally carry around thorozine?  Particularly when he’s planning on going out on a date?  Do I even want to know?)  Egon instructs Peter to return to the Firehouse straight away, also warning him that they cannot let Zuul and Vinz meet.

Elsewhere, Ray and Winston are off in the Ecto-1, apparently coming back from a call.  Strangely, Winston is still wearing his civilian clothes while Ray is in his Ghostbusters jumpsuit.  As previously stated, Winston is supposed to have been with the Ghostbusters for a few weeks by this point.  So where’s his jumpsuit?  How long does it take the uniform store to design a Ghostbuster jumpsuit?  Anyway, Ray is busy studying the blueprints for Dana’s apartment building, currently unaware of what happened with Dana and Lewis, and is taken aback by how the top of the apartment complex was constructed by a magnesium-tungsten alloy, which is apparently very peculiar.  Winston, seemingly out of nowhere, interrupts Ray’s musings to bring up God and Jesus.  However, the reason behind Winston’s choice of subject becomes clear when he asks Ray if he remembers what the Bible said about the last days, when the dead would rise from the grave.  To this, Ray states he remembers Revelations 7:12 and proceeds to recite a Bible verse.  However, if you actually look at a Bible, you’ll see that the verse Ray recites is NOT Revelations 7:12.  It’s actually Revelations 6:12.  You got the wrong chapter, Ray, but points for trying.  Either way, Ray basically shrugs and states all ancient religions have their own myths about the end of the world.  But his mood shifts when Winston points out that perhaps the reason why they’ve been so busy lately is because the dead HAVE been rising from the grave.  While this particular scene doesn’t really contribute much to the plot, it is still a good scene, and one of my favorites in the film.

Back at the Firehouse, Egon is awaiting the return of his fellow Ghostbusters and performing a few tests on Vinz while he’s waiting.  Because of course Egon would want to gather some data on the possessed Louis. Unfortunately, that’s when Walter Peck returns.  This time, he’s brought in the cops and a worker from Con Edison.  Janine does her best to stop them, pointing out that she knows they can’t barge onto the premises without a writ or warrant (which is further indication that Janine is highly intelligent and not just a pretty face), but Peck counters her denial of entry by showing he does have a warrant.  Upon storming into the basement with his reinforcements in tow, Peck demands that the Containment Unit gets switched off.  Egon urgently warns the Con Edison man against turning off the protection grid, as does Peter when he arrives on the scene.  However, Peck is persistent and forces the Con Edison man to comply with his order, despite the Con Ed Man’s hesitations.

Of course, the moment the Containment Unit’s protection grid is switched off, alarms start blaring, and everyone is forced to run out of the Firehouse before the Containment Unit explodes with such force, it blasts a hole into the Firehouse’s roof.  The instant this happens, Zuul/Dana snaps awake. Because this was apparently the sign she and Vinz/Louis was waiting for- the release of all the ghosts the Ghostbusters had previously caught.

As a crowd gathers around the damaged Firehouse, Ray and Winston return back from their bust.  As such, they are present when Peck angrily charges forward, demanding that the cops arrest them for being in criminal violation of the Environmental Protection Act.  To Egon’s enragement, Peck even tries to blame them for the explosion.  Which was really a jerk move on Peck’s part.  While I won’t deny that he was just doing his job at first, it was his refusal to listen to Egon and Peter’s multiple warnings that make him lose my support. They TOLD him repeatedly that shutting off the Containment Unit’s protection grid would have led to disastrous reproductions.  But he refused to listen to them out of what I can only imagine was the result of him having a chip on his shoulder because Peter ‘insulted’ him.  To make matters worse, Vinz/Louis manages to slip away amidst the chaos.  And throughout the city, the newly released ghosts proceed to wreak havoc.

Sometime later, the Ghostbusters are confined to a rather large jail cell, which they’re sharing with some other prison inmates.  I admit I don’t know much about prisons, but… do jails often have cells large enough to hold up to ten people?  Regardless, Egon and Ray are busy studying the blueprints of Dana and Louis’ apartment building, commenting on how bizarre the structural framework is.  Long story short, it turns out that the building was actually designed to be a super-conductive antenna designed specifically to pull in and concentrate spiritual energy.  Egon then goes into storytelling mode, explaining to his compatriots (as well as the other inmates, who also seem interested) that he has previously discovered that the building’s architect was a man named Ivo Shandor. In 1920, following WWI, Ivo had decided that society no longer deserved to survive, so he formed a secret society.  He and his many followers began to worship the ancient god Gozer.  And, atop the high-rise that would eventually become Dana and Louis’ apartment building, they conducted many rituals that were intended to bring about the end of the world.  Now, it seems like the rituals they performed might actually succeed.

Clearly, this is really bad, and the Ghostbusters know they have to do something about it.  Even though Winston seems doubtful that they convince a judge to believe their tale and let them go.  Thankfully, luck is on their side, and a jail guard, portrayed by the same actor who played Carl Winslow on Family Matters and Sgt. Al Powell in the Die Hard movies (that man loves playing law enforcement, doesn’t he?), appears to announce that the mayor has asked for them.  So the Ghostbusters are all brought before Mayor Lenny.  And not a moment too soon, as time is running out- Vince/Louis and Zuul/Dana have already found their way to each other.

When the Ghostbusters arrive at Mayor Lenny’s office, he’s already in a meeting with his advisers, discussing all the turmoil that’s been going on because of the escaped ghosts now running amok.  Of course, Walter Peck is also there, once again accusing the Ghostbusters of being con artists who have been making people believe they’re seeing ghosts by releasing a hallucinogenic gas into the air.  Thankfully, Mayor Lenny’s advisors are skeptical of Peck’s accusations.  The Fire Commissioner states he has no explanation for what he witnessed when the explosion occurred at the Firehouse, despite seeing every form of combustion known to man. And the Police Commissioner points out there’s no rational explanation behind the walls of the 53rd precinct bleeding.  Eventually, the Ghostbusters present their case to Mayor Lenny, warning him that if they don’t act quickly, a disaster of biblical proportions will occur.  The Mayor is ultimately convinced to give the Ghostbusters a chance when Peter presents a wager of sorts.  He tells Mayor Lenny that if they’re wrong, they will willingly go to prison.  But if they’re right, and they’re allowed the chance to stop Gozer, then the city will view Mayor Lenny as the man who helped save the city by not preventing the Ghostbusters from doing their job.  Like most politicians, Mayor Lenny is all for the option that could get him re-elected.

And so the Ghostbusters are off to the Ivo Shandor building, complete with a police escort.  Only now Winston is finally sporting a Ghostbuster jumpsuit.  That was convenient timing.  Did his jumpsuit arrive at the exact moment they returned to the Firehouse to pick up their Proton Packs and whatnot?  Either way, upon their arrival, a sudden earthquake erupts, breaking up the street and swallowing up the Ghostbusters.  I guess Gozer sensed the Ghostbusters arrival and, recognizing them as a threat, attempted to get rid of them.  Somehow, they survive falling into the gaping hole and manage to enter the building.  But the elevator is apparently out of order as they’re forced to climb up the stairs to reach Dana’s apartment up on the 22nd floor.  When they do reach the apartment, they find the place in a shambles, as the whole side of the building exploded during the earlier sequence where the escaped ghosts were terrorizing the city.  Although, they do locate a staircase that leads them up to the roof, where the Temple of Gozer now resides.

It’s too late, however, as Zuul/Dana and Vinz/Louis have already started the ritual to summon Gozer. (It’s somewhat implied they had sex on a stone alter).  The Ghostbusters arrive on the scene just in time for the pair to complete their transformation, shedding the appearance of Dana and Louis and becoming full Terror Dogs, and they can only watch as the temple doors open, revealing Gozer in the flesh.  After another iconic moment where Ray attempts to instruct Gozer to leave only to get blasted backwards for not identifying himself as a god, the Ghostbusters attempt to take Gozer out with their Proton Packs.  To their astonishment, Gozer vanishes when they fire their Proton Streams at the alter Gozer is standing on.  For a few seconds, it looks like they succeeded in defeating Gozer, but of course it’s not that easy.  As Vinz stated earlier in the movie, Gozer typically takes a pre-chosen form before beginning his destruction.  And that proves to be the case here, as a disembodied voice instructs the Ghostbusters to choose the form of the destructor.

Peter, stepping up to the plate, takes the initiative.  Realizing they’ve only got one shot at tricking Gozer into taking a form they can easily overpower, he encourages his teammates to clear their heads so they can think of something.  But unfortunately, not quick enough, as a thought has already entered Ray’s head- Mr. Stay Puft the mascot of an in-universe brand of marshmallows.  A minute later, a 50-foot-tall Mr. Stay Puft manifests down in the city streets below and begins making its way toward them. In order to try and stop Mr. Stay Puft, the Ghostbusters attempt to fire their Proton Packs at the creature, but this only makes Mr. Stay Puft angry, and it begins to climb up the side of the building, King Kong style.  So now the Ghostbusters are in a bit of a tight spot.  Obviously, they have to defeat Gozer’s chosen form, but how?

That’s when Egon gets his last-ditch idea.  He suggests, since the door to Gozer’s temple swings both ways, perhaps they can close it and therefore put a stop to all of this by reversing the particle flow through the gate.  Unfortunately, the only way to accomplish this is by crossing their Proton Streams- the very thing Egon warned them against doing on their first mission as Ghostbusters.  Peter is quick to remind him of this, pointing out how that plan would put them all in danger.  But he quickly shifts gears and becomes in full agreement with the plan when Egon suggests there’s a slim chance they’ll survive.

Egon’s plan ultimately works, with the four Proton Streams merging into one big one that helps close the gate.  This results in the Temple of Gozer exploding, with Mr. Stay Puft getting incinerated and melted marshmallow raining down onto the streets below, with one particularly large mound of it falling right onto Walter Peck.  (There are some deleted scenes that show Peck was still trying to get the Ghostbusters arrested, even after seeing Mr. Stay Puft.)

As the smoke clears atop the building, we see the Ghostbusters have all miraculously survived the explosion.  Though they’re all drenched with marshmallow fluff.  Except for Peter, who only got some in his hair.  How he accomplished that is anyone’s guess.  As the Ghostbusters check up on each other to make sure they got through the ordeal in one piece, Peter steps away to take in the charred remains of Zuul and Vinz, who were also consumed in the explosion. Ray, realizing that Peter’s thoughts are of Dana and how she had transformed into the creature, offers his condolences.  Of course, the movie didn’t want to go out on such a depressing note, and it’s quickly shown that Dana and Louis both survived as well, as they slowly break out of the petrified remains of the Terror Dogs, a bit battered but still alive and well.

And so the movie ends, with the Ghostbusters emerging triumphantly to the cheers of the crowd of New Yorkers.  Peter even gets to share a kiss with Dana in full view of everyone.  Which would be awesome if the movie had actually shown us more of this pairing’s development.  Then again, the fact that Peter seemed particularly upset when it looked as if Dana had died does suggest he does genuinely care about her.  So I guess I can buy this kiss.  And we also do get one final scene with Egon and Janine, as the latter had actually came out to the site of the final battle and embraces Egon upon seeing him unharmed.

Dana then gets to essentially ride off into the sunset with the Ghostbusters in the Ecto-1.  Which is a bit odd, since we see Louis is escorted away by some Red Cross employees.  What’s with that?  Why does Dana get to ride off in the Ecto-1 while Louis has to stay behind to receive medical care?  Dana went through the exact same ordeal as Louis.  So if Louis has to get checked over at the hospital, then Dana should be, too, right?  Especially since she was the one who seemed to be the most disoriented after she was freed from the petrified remains of Zuul.

Despite the few issues that arise with the movie, I still enjoy it.  It’s easy to see why Ghostbusters took the world by storm. While I wouldn’t say it’s a laugh-out-loud comedy, the jokes they work in are really smart and clever.  The effects are impressive, even by today’s standards.  The ghosts featured in the film still look amazing (excluding this one moment when Vinz is running across the street.  I admit something looked off at that moment).  And there are so many iconic lines that I’m pretty sure this movie is right up there with Star Wars in terms of quotability.

In fact, my only real complaint is the character of Peter and how we never got any indication on why he even got involved in parapsychology like Ray and Egon in the first place.  Instead, he comes across as a bit of a jerk who is only in it for the money, and to pick up good-looking women.  Admittedly, that seems to be a trend of Bill Murray- playing a jerk character.  (I’m looking at you, Groundhog Day and Scrooged.)  But at least with those movies, Bill Murry’s character underwent a character arc, and by the end of the movie, he had stopped being a jerk.  But that’s not the case with Peter.  While he didn’t display any of his jerk-ish qualities by the end of the movie, we never saw any real indication that he’d undergone some sort of character development.  I know no one had much in the way of character development in this movie, but the point still stands.  It just would have been nice for the movie to give us some indication why we were supposed to root for him.  Because the only thing we really got was that he had a thing for Dana, and that’s it. All the other characters are all very likable, though, so that does help balance out any negativity Peter’s presence might have caused.

One thing that stuck out to me while watching this movie now, apart from the presence of the 80s-style technology (case in point that huge 80s cellphone a movie extra was using in one scene), was all the product placement that cropped up throughout the movie.  As I watched this movie, I saw appearances of Cheez-it crackers, Coca-Cola, Perrier, Oscar-Mayer bologna, Wise Potato Chips and Hi-ho crackers (which are now called Ritz crackers).  And, of course, Twinkies.  I might be wrong, considering I don’t normally watch for this sort of thing, but I don’t think we generally see this much product placement in movies coming out today.  So seeing that many recognizable brands was quite interesting to me.

That pretty wraps up my review of the original Ghostbusters movie. I’ll be sure to review its sequel, Ghostbusters II on a later date.  But first, I think I’ll look at the episodes of the movie’s animated spin-off, The Real Ghostbusters.  Even though the series technically takes place in a separate continuity, I do remember there were a few callbacks to the events of the movie, so that should count for something.

(Click here to read more Ghostbusters reviews)

[elijahkmski]

🔮 are you gonna get the same result I did?? I feel like most likely yes but I'm still curious esp for ur commentary 👀

{{ INTJ, actually. “The Architect.”

Which kind of surprised me because I wholly expected the same results as you, but guess not. Huh.

Reading through the provided information, however, it makes sense. It mentions that architects are “imaginative yet decisive, ambitious yet private, amazingly curious, but they do not squander their energy” which is my Kamski to a T, and at another point it says:

“...Architect personalities tend to believe that with effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible, while at the same time they believe that people are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve those fantastic results."

Elijah set out to make fiction a reality. That’s what him and his androids really boil down to. He read a bunch of books, went “we should have this”, and decided to make it because he could. They even mention architect-type children being referred to as bookworms and if that isn’t this Kamski’s childhood IDK what is lmao.

The weakness I absolute love about this type is they loathe highly structured environments and y’know what a highly structured environment is? The business world. You know what my Kamski hated because it was too restricting? The business world. HA.

Honestly there’s so much here that it’d take me ages to read through and comment on it all properly. Mostly everything is checking out, however, from their emotions being underdeveloped and covered up with cool logic to their preference for working in a small, like-minded team (or alone).

Personally, I’m an ENTP, and I’m not well-versed enough in all this to know exactly what that means in comparison to his personality type, but ayy NT types all around! (sidenote: you reblogged a post last week talking about myers-briggs types and mentioned in the tags about how you feel ENTP is the BDSM-iest type and i almost choked when I considered how kinky I’m making Elijah lmao)

...This was the worst commentary. I’m so sorry lol. I kind of got overwhelmed by the amount of new information I was reading and ended up just snatching up quotes that really stuck out >_>