#especially for the sake of a ship it's just fiction it does not matter

[bcbdrums]

So, I got blocked for replying to this post here

I commented and pointed out to OP that the relationship during adolescence being referred to in this very good book they show is NOT child to child, but adult to child. That is the type of attachment needed for healthy development.

I also recommended the excellent book The Boy Who Was Raised As A Dog by Dr. Bruce Perry for further reading on the topic of child trauma. My comment to OP was kind and supportive, but still pointing out the error in their interpretation.

But, my comment was deleted and I got blocked.

CroMa fandom, why you in denial about the fact that Crona needs THERAPY???

Thing is... It could have been anyone to exorcise Crona. It just happened to be Maka. But Crona would have developed a dependency on whoever had first reached out to them. Maka isn't special. Maka was just the one who was there. And to really heal, Crona needs professional help. A romance or even a friendship isn't gonna magically solve Crona's problems. Neither will antidepressants or other drugs. Children need a positive adult attachment. This is well-established brain science, not opinion.

Highkey think y'all know that, CroMa stans, and don't wanna admit it cuz...you think it would sink your ship? 🤔 Idk. A kid can have friends, that is normal but that can't be their primary relationship. That's not healthy for anyone, and especially not for someone in deep trauma.

Anyway, guess polite conversation get blocked now. Oh well.

[inuyashaluver]

Hi bestie, woso-vida here to formally request Alexia x Jenni x Reader 🧎‍♀️🧎‍♀️

I'm thinking (playful) jealousy?? I'm thinking them both arguing who you'll be sitting beside on the bus?? I'm thinking them constantly trying to one up eachother in terms of romance??

Or yknow, whatever you'd like. I'll read everything from you 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

three’s a party - alexia putellas, jenni hermoso

alexia putellas x jenni hermoso x reader

description: in which your girlfriends are incredibly jealous of one another when it comes to your attention

warnings: i am not shipping - this is PURE FICTION, polyamory, let's pretend jenni is in barcelona for the sake of this, slight swearing - spanish is in bold italics!

a/n: i got excited to write this i won't lie, HAPPY AUGUST YOU BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE!! enjoy, my lovesssss, thank you so much for your support, love! this is so meh

⋆ ★ ⋆ ★ ⋆ ★ ⋆ ★ ⋆

if there was anything to know about football players, they’re incredibly competitive. they are so competitive that it can sometimes develop into jealousy, envy and even bitterness.

and the two girls that embodied these qualities the most, just so happened to be your girlfriends.

the jealousy was playful most of the time, but sometimes it could really push your buttons.

—

jenni and alexia, your girls. they were obsessed with you. the two spaniards were so obsessed with you in fact, they don’t know how they went through life without you.

in the beginning stages, they were together for a relatively long time, and it was incredibly unexpected when you joined the equation.

the three of you just made sense. it was easy, familiar and just felt so right amongst all of you. it was your own little bubble, the way you all liked it.

it was private, not a secret, with no confirming nor denying when the question came up. you were all happy and that was all that mattered.

you’d now all been together for a little over 3 years and they were probably the most special and fun years of your lives. and within these three years, you learnt how competitive these girls really could be, especially when it came to you. 

—

“this is unbelievable, we are basically late” jenni curses under her breath, walking back and forth past a sleeping you and alexia as she attempted to find all your belongings needed for the day.

you and alexia’s fronts were pressed against each other, your head tucked under her chin, “you can’t sleep all day” jenni points out, much louder this time in attempts to wake you both up.

alexia’s arms were wrapped around you tightly, you were still sleeping against the older girl as alexia drifted in and out of her slumber.

“niñas (kids), we have training” jenni says pointedly, fighting the smile playing at her lips at how cute you both looked in this moment. you slowly stir against alexia, pressing your nose into her neck.

the other girl is fully awake now, her hands on instinct rubbing up and down your back soothingly. she chuckles in your ear tiredly as you curse out jenni.

“no” you grumble, holding onto alexia tightly as she tried to sit up, “yes” jenni mocks with a laugh, her hands on her hips as she watches you from the end of the bed.

“jen, she’s sleeping” alexia coos, leaning down to kiss your cheek repeatedly, you smile at her sleepily, “yeah, jenni” you giggle, letting alexia cup your cheek with one hand and pull you into a sweet kiss, waking you up even more.

jenni gaws at both of you, “no, that’s not fair! why does she get a kiss first?” she frowns, growing angry at seeing alexia smile into your mouth before she slips her tongue in.

you pull back for a moment, pecking her lips quickly, “because she’s in front of me” you grin, that’s when jenni loses it. jenni leaps onto the bed, quickly spinning you around and straddling your hips with hers, a wolfish grin making you chuckle, they were like children when it came to sharing.

“buenos días, mi amor (good morning, my love)” she sings out, winking at you cheekily, you can’t help but laugh at her, returning the greeting.

you look over at alexia next to you who just shrugs, shaking her head amusingly, clearly she wasn’t in the mood to fight over sharing just yet.

she kisses both of your foreheads, moving past both of you to the adjoining bathroom to begin getting ready for training. “it’s my turn” jenni says as she squeezes your cheeks, directing your head to look at her. you breathe out exaggeratingly, “come on then” you puckered up your lips jokingly, though, jenni is jenni. everything is serious.

she wasted no time pressing her lips to yours, making a quick effort to slip her tongue into your mouth and relished in the fact she pulled a hum from the back of your throat. someone was clearly trying to prove a point.

it was a lot easier now in your relationship ever since jenni returned to barcelona, she hated the short time apart when she was in mexico. 

“calm down, hermoso!” you breathe out a laugh, she hops off you with an accomplished smile, holding both your hands to pull you out of bed. “okay, get off me” she says cheekily, pushing you gently into the awaiting arms of alexia, the blonde currently brushing her teeth.

you laugh as alexia pulled you to her with one strong arm around your middle, you hug her back tightly around her waist. 

she smiles down at you, brushing her teeth with her free hand, swaying you gently from side to side, you could honestly fall asleep against her. “ale, tell her to get ready” jenni calls out from the kitchen, making you all a protein shake. 

alexia chuckles again, letting go of you for a second to give you your toothbrush. 

she now hugs you from behind, both of you smiling in the mirror as you look at each other through it. alexia is done first so she takes advantage of it. 

she kisses your shoulder sweetly, loving the way your cheeks filled with pink over her. “my beautiful bebé (baby)” she grins brightly, continuing her trail of kisses from your shoulder to your jaw, making you squirm from the ticklish sensation. 

“did you give jenni a kiss?” she mutters against your temple, absolutely loving to watch you get ready in the morning. “more like a make out” you chuckle, you spot alexia’s eyebrows furrow and that’s when she spins you around, pressing your back into the sink as she smiled at you. 

“then i should have one too” she wastes no time pulling you into a kiss, humming against you happily as your arms wound around her neck to pull her even closer, her hands finding home on your waist. 

“are you joking?” jenni groans, coming behind alexia to pull you both apart, “that’s not fair!” alexia exclaims, pushing jenni away from you as she tried to pull you into another kiss. 

—

situations like that were a daily occurrence, but they only grew tenfold when it came to national camps. the bus was your nightmare, and it wasn’t even an exaggeration. 

“sit in the window seat” alexia tells you, taking your bag from your hands as you all awaited to get on the bus. “ah, she’s sitting with me” jenni points out, pulling on your arm to launch you into her chest. 

you sigh heavily, you knew this would happen. “you said you would sit with me” alexia pouts slightly, gently pulling your other arm. you smile, “my loves, it’s a 20 minute bus ride” already knowing this would turn into a playful argument.

“but 20 minutes is 20 minutes” jenni scoffed, 

“you got to sit next to her on the way there last time!” alexia frowns, her arms crossed over her chest intimidatingly, “i did not! that was you, ale!” jenni defends, staring at alexia. 

you stand of the middle of both of them, clearly unimpressed, you look between both of them with a deadpan expression 

“bebé, who did you sit next to last time?” alexia asks you sweetly, her tone completely changing for you, jenni scoffs a laugh, though smiles at you gently awaiting your response.

“i sat next to jenni” you think, nodding at your response, alexia’s face brightens, looking at jenni smugly, the other girl frowning.

“princesa (princess), why did you tell her?” she groans, though smiles when you look at her in offence. “i’ve had enough of this, sit together, i’m sitting with leila” you tutt, walking over to the smiling girl waiting for you. this was clearly preplanned by you.

“you fucked up” alexia slaps jenni’s arm, “i did not!” jenni scoffs, picking up her back and walking to the bus. they walk past a laughing you and leila, slightly sad they weren’t the ones making you laugh. jenni plops down in the window seat and stares at you longingly, it takes everything to not look at her.

alexia suddenly remembers something, rummaging through her bag and finding one of your favourite protein bars she always kept for you. she smiles, rushing over to you before the bus moves off, tapping your shoulder sheepishly.

you smile at her sweetly, taking it from her appreciatively before pulling her down for a quick kiss, she pinches your cheek softly, winking at you before moving back to her seat.

jenni looks so grumpy when alexia comes back, “sit down” alexia says sternly, squeezing her knee when she was about to get up to go over to you. "that is so unfair" jenni grits out, though leans her thigh to press against alexia's.

they both bicker quietly back and forth before you turn around to wave at them, both of them perk up quickly and return to normal almost like nothing happened a few seconds prior.

—

during training, you three returned to your regular selves. during a small break, your sat with your back against jenni’s front, talking back and forth with misa and irene. you play with one of jenni’s hands, laughing brighting in the conversation with the other girls. 

when alexia plops next to you both, she smiles at you when you make eye contact and you already know she wants to cuddle with you. you turn around and kiss jenni’s cheek, she looks up at you confused, still in conversation. you make your way over to alexia, wrapping your arms around her shoulders from the back, kissing her cheek sweetly.

her hand comes up to hold your arm and she smiles brightly, though a little pink in the cheeks at how quickly you read her mind. “jealous?” you whisper in her ear in your knelt position, she chuckles lowly, hushing you with a pinch to your thigh resting on her side. 

“look how sad she got” misa chuckles, pointing at jenni, jenni makes an effort to get up slightly and flick her on the forehead, moving over to you, kissing you and alexia softly in turn before she got up to get some water. 

“go with her, bebé (baby)” alexia smiles, squeezing your arm reassuringly, you laugh, they really knew each other so well. “what a treat, mi amor (my love) is here!” jenni exclaims, cupping your cheeks and kissing your lips repeatedly, you both laugh into the kisses, so childish but really just so cute.

alexia watches you both with a smile, shaking her head fondly as she gets up to walk over to the both of you.

“happy?” alexia questions, jenni nods, giving alexia a kiss before picking her up and running around with her. alexia curses her out harshly, though laughs brightly when she saw you basically in stitches laughing at your girlfriends.

—

“princesa! (princess), look, i’m doing the dishes”, “bebé (baby), look i’m folding the laundry”, they both yell out when you come through the door with breakfast one morning.

“why are you both acting like i told you to do that? we all live here” you laugh, letting alexia help take the groceries and drinks out of your hands. "it is not a competition, i am both of your partners, and so are you" you remind.

“tsk, you should have let me come with you” alexia scolds, bringing you into a quick hug, “you’re so stubborn, hermosa (beautiful)” jenni scolds as well, patting the top of your head affectionately as you sit at the kitchen island.

“because i can do it myself” you roll your eyes, smiling when alexia presses a kiss to your cheek. “you’re around this one too much” jenni says smugly, winking at alexia with a flirty smile.

“and you’re not stubborn?” alexia springs into action, moving her chair closer to yours as jenni looks at you both from the other side of the island. “do not even start on me right now, putellas” jenni laughs, alexia turns to you immediately, “bebé- (baby)”.

⋆ ★ ⋆ ★ ⋆ ★ ⋆ ★ ⋆

you know the drill - pretend it's you! ily oni

liked by ireneparedes4 and 44,232 others

alexiaputellas: she just always has to come into the hug

view all comments

jennihermoso: how funny, i was thinking the same about you!

↳ alexiaputellas: watch it

yourname: my girls!!

↳ alexiaputellas: my girl

↳ jennihermoso: my girlll

↳ marialeonn16: you are all ridiculous xxxx

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

"I don't support it in real life!"CW: talk of sexualizing minors, slight rant

Then why write about it? If for coping purposes, why post it online for others (especially actual predators) to see and consume? Then why portray those things in a positive light instead of condemning them?And you're seriously going to tell me that just because as an adult (1) you want to see a fictional minor (that mind you, is usually designed to resemble an actual child) depicted in sexual situations doesn't mean you don't share that same view concerning children in real life? You find fictional minors attractive but not real ones? Why does the line between finding someone who is (and usually also looks like) a child sexually attractive get drawn at whether the child is real or not? I'm not calling anyone pedophiles, but if the shoe fits...(1) No I am not talking about 18 y/os finding 17 y/os attractive. Use your brain. Creating content of underaged characters is still questionable regardless of age, however.

"Just mute/block instead of harassing others!"I have nearly 70k people blocked on twitter, and hundreds of words and tags muted, I softblock and mute people who post things I don't want to see. I still see certain things on my timeline, usually because1) It's posted in the main tags of something I'm interested in2) The post isn't even tagged at all3) If someone quote retweets from someone I've blocked, I still see the take on my timeline.

"Antis use the same rhetoric as exclusionists and TERFS!"What exactly does being against pedophilia have to do with trans (women) exclusionary radical feminism?And what does lgbtq discourse in general have to do with not wanting minors to be sexualized?

"Antis harass people!"Apparently, proshippers have never done this before! Not once has a grown adult stalked literal children for calling their ships gross!Not saying harassments ok at all, but let's not act like the poor proshippers are being oppressed here.Also, I promise you, someone saying "x is a proshipper, please block them if you don't want to see their content" is not harassment. Writing callout posts and videos on underaged "antis", however is most definitely harassment but y'all don't want to hear that. People have the right to know if they are platforming people who go against their personal beliefs and morals. Choosing to hide that from people who would otherwise not want to interact with you for the sake of not wanting to "lose friends" makes you a bad person, and you should feel bad.

replying under the cut bc this ask was long enough, and i don't wanna make ppl who follow us/see this have to scroll for eons

why do you think coping mechanisms have to stay private? if someone's coping mechanism was yoga, or working out, would you say they have to do that by themselves, in the confines of their own house, and they aren't allowed to talk to anyone else about it? i hope not, because that would be ridiculous (inb4 "yeah but yoga isn't harming anyone!", neither is fiction!).

the fact of the matter is, anyone can consume any type of content, and that shouldn't prevent people from making what they like. why not portray it in a positive light? what does it matter? any regular person knows that what they see in fiction should not necessarily be replicated in real life. i know better than to go out and kill someone just because billy loomis and stu macher do it.

furthermore, wouldn't you want actual pedophiles to use fiction rather than them going out and hurting real children? that's not how that works, but using your argument that they're one and the same, wouldn't that be better for everyone, and result in less people getting hurt, ergo fiction doesn't hurt anyone?

no, fictional characters are not meant to resemble actual children. that IS a crime. however, you cannot look at an anime child, or idk, kid ashley from TCOAAL, and tell me that looks like a REAL child. that's nonsense. and no, it does NOT mean i "share the same view concerning children in real life", because those characters aren't real, and i (can't believe i have to say this) am NOT attracted to real children. yes, you ARE calling me a pedophile, which is just categorically not true. it's not "questionable" because it's not REAL, which is necessary for someone to be diagnosed with pedophilia, which is a disorder, and not just some label you can put on people.

genuinely, if you are THAT sensitive to people having other opinions, or are sensitive to different kinds of art, maybe social media isn't the place for you to be. if the post isn't tagged, i agree, something should be done about that, but the fact is, WE DO tag our stuff. that has nothing to do with me (or chica), or even proshippers as a whole. you're doing the thing were you believe one rotten apple spoils the bunch.

when you post something online, you HAVE to understand that literally anyone can view it, and if your accounts aren't private, anyone can interact with it. that is the cost of posting online. if you can't handle that, log off.

i don't think i've ever compared being an anti to being a terf/exclus, BUT they do objectively share some of the same opinions as conservatives, and even nazis (which is NOT to say all antis are conservatives/nazis, but that you share some of the same ideals).

i can't speak much to that because i don't think i've ever made that argument, but it is a lil radfem-y when most of y'all go after specifically BL and yaoi. also terfs aren't only bigoted towards trans women, it's also trans men. idk why you said that.

yes, correct, anyone can harass anyone, but the fact of the matter is, 99% of the time proshippers get harassed, it's while we're in our own lanes, minding our own business, and y'all (much like you're doing right now) come into OUR spaces and call us pedophiles, and say we deserve to die, or that we should kill ourselves.

if you've been following this blog for the last week-ish, you'd have seen some prime examples of just that. doing nothing, talking to no one, and getting harassed. people saying i should be on watchpeopledie, saying i should be killed, that they hope i get cancer, or die in a car accident, or that my dad beats me to death. that i should "slit", cut to the bone, kill myself, hang myself. threatening to doxx me, find my address, have tried to grab my ip. the difference is, when proshippers are found to be doing this stuff, they're called out and reported, often by other proshippers, whereas antis, when they exhibit this behavior, they are encouraged. they're praised by their peers.

if all people did was say "x is a proshipper, block them", we wouldn't have an issue, but the fact is, a significant amount of y'all don't start with blocking. you start with slurs, nasty names, disgusting accusations, and downright deplorable behavior BEFORE you block us. if you block us. and when we block you, it's entirely possible you just create a new account to harass us from, or grab your friends to do it for you.

if platforming people who like different types of fiction than you is that big of a problem, that you feel the need to write callouts, make google docs, harass them, and threaten to doxx them, you need to get off the internet. stop interacting with people AT ALL. live in a bubble. because again, people you don't like are always going to exist on the internet, it's your duty to navigate that in the best way you can, WITHOUT hurting anyone.

people hide the fact they're proship because we don't want the harassment. that's sorta the crux of the issue? you're completely ignoring the COUNTLESS posts of people being harassed for simply existing and being proship. we shouldn't be made to feel bad for trying to protect ourselves and our peace, YOU should be made to feel bad for making others feel bad.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Kataang is a ship that dared to be different. Not sure why people think Kataang is a sexist ship when Katara and Aang both protect and support each other and neither is the damsel and the hero in the relationship.

And yet people think ZK is better than the average M/F ship when the reason why ZK is so damn popular is because of annoying overdone hetero-normalic tropes. To the point where people think Zuko taking a hit for Katara is romantic coded (and apparently me and my peers are """delusional""" for not seeing it as romantic coded) and that ZK fanfics are such romantic fantasies of Zuko saving Katara and Katara being such a meek little girlfriend for the badass chad fanon!Zuko. (As if the ZK fanbase is aware that Zuko and Katara are both pure yang energy and they have to make Katara meek to make the ZK ship work.)

I mean yes I am annoyed Z/tara is as popular as it is but Kataang is canon and ZK is dipping in popularity and it feels like the bulk of the ZK fanbase is just annoying ass middle aged women who get pissy at a kids show for not being the adult show they want...

Just food for thought...Especially considering ZK shippers act immature trying to 1-up people by saying their ship is popular (I mean, are they unaware Zukka topped Z/tara?) And again, popular doesn't automatically mean good...Especially since Z/tara is only popular because it hits all those hetero-normalic beats that people adore so much.

Guys, come on, let's be serious here. I LOVE kataang, with all my heart, BUT best friends to lovers is as cliche as enemies to lovers, main guy dates main girl is as cliche as hero falls in love with the villain who changes side. To quote my best friend @dragomer "A knife is cliche. It's still what you use to cut shit with."

The problem with Zutara fans is not the they prefer the more "traditional" romance, or that it's cliche, or that it's smutty, or that they sometimes make it a toxic dynamic, or that it's not a "progressive" ship. The problem is they feel entitled to push their preference as the only correct one - it's the same issue that made the fandom for Zukka, an actual non hetero ship, so hated by everyone else. No one likes the people that think only they are allowed to have fun with fanon. No one likes the people that expects them to disregard canon for the sake of their prefered fanon.

And speaking as a bisexual woman: we gotta stop with this nonsense of labeling straight ships "non-hetero normalic" for basic shit (and the reverse of it, the "hetero-normalic gay ship" that is literally just the age old homophobic question of "But which one of you is the woman?" with woke language attached to it). It doesn't matter if Kataang is "heteronormative" or not, because:

1 - All that matters in fiction is if something is WELL WRITTEN AND ENTERTAINING, not if it's progressive or more on the traditional side, if it's cliche or "subverting expectations".

2 - What media you find entertaining has nothing to do with your politic views and real-life sexual preferences. Liking one of H.P. Lovecraft's stories doesn't make you a racist, disliking Freddie Mercury doesn't mean you're homophobic (though it does mean you have shit taste in music), liking the most traditional straight romance ever doesn't mean you're straight yourself.

3 - In the case of Avatar in particular, lets be fucking real: no way two straight writers back in 2005, while working on a kids show in a network that had a long history of banning episodes of shows that tried to hint or full on talk about homosexuality, were thinking "How do we make this straight ship less 'hetero-normalic'?" They were just writting whatever felt right for the characters and story - that's why Avatar, while flawed and a product of it's time, aged WAY better than many shows of the time that had "be progressive" as the goal, it avoided forced narrative choices that were only made to beat the audience over the head with the moral lesson of the day.

[mourningobject]

re: your post saying you have nuanced takes on proshipping; what nuance is there to not wanting csem/abuse/incest/etc written for entertainment and fandom without tact. "dislike both sides of the argument" perhaps it's my black and white autism thinking but genuinely what is there to dislike about not wanting twitter users to romanticize various forms of abuse. i am asking this not as some random hate anon but as someone who is considering whether or not to break mutual; i do not want anyone who can even slightly be okay with abuse for entertainment around me; and therefore am asking clarification.

Putting this under a cut because I don't want a biggie made out of it. TLDR; I dislike pro-shippers as people and think they are disgusting scum, but dislike anti as a label due to the rampant hypocrisy and occasional lack of nuance regarding if and how to portray sensitive content in art, as well as the performative behaviour & the lack of curating of their online spaces.

I've learnt to stop caring so much about what other people do even if the content they create makes me sick to my stomach. I do not agree with creating such content without tact or for the sake of making their dicks hard. But I just won't interact, I'll block. I also don't see how this material can be considered "abuse for entertainment"... unless you're talking about the abuse within the content.

But I understand your concern. You don't want someone perverse to be by your side. To elaborate on what I meant, the problem isn't with the concept of someone simply disliking seeing such things, that's more than fine. I just don't either as a Label, fundamentally.

Antis are more often than not performative and reactionary online (particularly the ones fixated on the subject, or with uncovering others as secretly being evil and such to the point of sending others retrospring asks like "Uuum, why do you follow [so and so]" and not even giving the @ for the person to block them and assuming the worst of them to the point it comes off as fake advocacy on their behalf. Especially when I myself follow artists who create questionable content once in a blue moon, but if it isn't their entire catalogue does that make me evil? These people aren't and will never be my friends. This is something that happened a lot on twitter, especially a few months ago. I understand the fear of being close to someone who's morals don't align with yours, but if you genuinely have concerns you may as well dm them instead of making a spectacle out of it), especially when most of them turn around and indulge in content that borders on the same, or even downright degeneracy on the side, as well as comparing it to genuine real world abuse or feeling it important to mention in cases that are totally unrelated where a person has committed actual crimes which is like, well, both can matter, but is now the time? I'd say it only counts in cases like that of Lily Orchard, where what she portrayed in her works was a reflection of her disgusting self and abuse she'd committed in real life. I don't believe in fiction not affecting reality because that is a redundant way to view art, as well as due to how art can reflect the creator's subconscious views, or normalize things to them, and they'll repeat again and again, "it's just fiction!" as if that makes it any better that they get off on the things they do. But these people will exist no matter what and so will the content they create, so antis should learn to actually curate their online spaces rather than getting into useless discourse, particularly teenagers who won't be able to change the minds of degenerate adults, or make a big deal about it publicly to show how they have the moral high-ground. Not to mention, countless antis I've seen are hypocrites who end up being revealed to believe this doesn't matter at all in the real world, or are friends with people who engage with pro ship content, but will harass others for it...? It's the rampant double standards that I don't like. Plus, a lot of media that antis love has elements that would be considered "pro ship" like nitro chiral games, and targets those audiences specifically, but they are surprised when the people it is made for interact with it. Of course I believe one can engage in media with disgusting things while being critical, though; I am an Ensemble Stars fan. There is shota-bait and incest all over the source material. That doesn't make me inherently sick because I'm not there for that, I understand that.

Also, most antis dislike these concepts being portrayed in media altogether, which is something I disagree with. If handled well these are experiences that deserve to be shared to others. Many victims have internalized so many horrific thoughts that they can't help but handle it imperfectly—that's something they have to deal with in therapy, though, why should I be the one to try to open their eyes as if it won't push them deeper into the hole they're in? You know?

There's also the thin line between "dark content" and "proship material". Who has the right to define this? (Obviously CSEM being inherently immoral is a given). That's all, mostly. There's more I've thought about before but I'm forgetting right now. I think both sides are worthy of critique and simply find most self-identified antis annoying, not nearly in a way that is as egregious as their counterpart, to be fair. I'm too busy simply being a Normal Person who also shakes his head in disdain when I see things like that. Even though I have mental problems regarding this sort of thing. I'm not saying to "not be sensitive", but to "not be stupid".

I think pro-shippers should stay away from antis because they are mostly children and victims themselves at that, and antis should stay away from pro-shippers because they are disgusting adults who will never be saved or changed by their protests.

My questions in this post are rhetorical even though I suppose I'm open to discussion and further elaboration but I think it's more than enough to show where I stand and whether you want to stay as my mutual or not. But that's essentially why I don't self-identify with either. Also, this could have used a dm, but I'm happy to explain my views. I’d at least appreciate an anonymous final verdict, though!

[horizon-verizon]

HOT TAKE:

Rhaenyra x Alicent

Rhaenyra x Harwin

Rhaenyra x Daemon

Daemon x Laena

Rhaenyra x Aegon II

Criston x Rhaenyra

Aemond x Lucerys

Criston x Alicent

Viserys x Aemma

Aemond x Helaena

Aegon II x Helaena

every single ship/couple on the show is either VERY problematic or toxic, so fans picking and choosing who is better is stupid. every single male character in the show has done something problematic and I mean EVERY single male character. The day the fandom just admit that every ship/couple is problematic/toxic is the day the HOTD fandom will know peace and the day shippers just admit that they only give certain male characters a pass because they find them attractive is the day we'll know peace.

*EDITED POST* (4/28/24)

i do agree that some male characters are given a pass when they shouldn't, however there are some who people acknowledge are bad, amoral, morally ambiguous, or just plain evil but ship them with certain people bc of various reasons. The human experience is not just about being "moral" 100% of the time, or being "rational"; other times, it's about fun and thrill and empathizing with a feeling, etc.

There is also reason why some ships are canonically real and lasted with little internal conflict between the couple (w/o there being an external intervention not of either their faults) and why some did not...

And why are "fucked up" people's relationships/love in fucked up or dangerous situations not "real"? Or valid?

I consider it to be a sort of miracle when this does happen, so I tend to positively fascinated! Because they tend to be more passionate, even thought they may not always be the most dramatic. Two (or more) people find each other and come to trust each other despite the odds or what could never or not as likely happen anywhere else? Sign me up! (except parent-child, grandparent-grandchild incest; physical abuse; emotional abuse; teens with 40 yr olds, and I'm sure i'm forgetting some things)

A)

I find that this growing protest against any fictional relationship that is not the ideal healthy one that real-life people dream of in of itself indicative of being out of touch with reality, specious, and tedious. As if it is not "healthy", then it doesn't deserve to be fictionalized and distributed to be read.

There is frustration with stories like Romeo and Juliet, Wuthering Heights, and the enemies-to-lovers trope itself...as if the writers of those stories expected you to copy their main characters 1:1 and take their tale as their own personal ideas in the first place. It is a protest that criticizes romance fiction/general fiction for not being 1:1 to what we should go for, or what we are taught to, in reality for the sake of morality teaching, censored. That fiction writing, especially romance, should only show fluff or as little conflict or high stakes between couples as possible because people are not discerning enough to always tell what is abusive behavior and what is grey behavior.

Like with Romeo and Juliet, people think R&J is an endorsement of this sort of relationship or they conflate the relationship with suicide for one that you love bc there's so many iterations and people going "I wish my love was as dedicated as Romeo to Juliet/vice versa" bc it speaks to their desire for passion in romantic relationship. But again, they conflate, they forget, or never knew that this story is really about the pressures put on vulnerable people's who merely wish to have love and peace in their lives but can't bc their families/communities refuse to abandon a cycle of hate or forcing their children to marry or limit their own ways of thinking for the sake of obedience. How the only relationships that matter are those made b/t the couple and not those constructed by ambitious forces who do not care the amount of blood they spill or lives wasted unless it's to gain more power and gain more "glory" in these hierarchial systems. Romeo and Juliet's love (no matter how you feel about it) is meant to be the direct contradiction to the hatred, and their suicides are meant to be seen as tragic bc they could have bene prevented if the adults aroud them got their heads out of their asses. But bc people are going, "oh, those kids are so stupid" all the time, this point is entirely missed!!!

Or rather, I say, people tend to misunderstand the value & appeal of some ships...canon or not.

No people, they write characters for ideas and philosophical concepts. Innovative, new or familiar and already developed, or something in the middle. We also don't read fiction stories to just be educated into copying behaviors, otherwise, we'd read nonfiction. Fiction is for emotional reality, speculative/philosophical thought, and creative thinking skills, again, they are for exploration of taboos, urges, ideologies, historical propaganda, narratology, mythology, some mysteries that run in the back of ones mind but aren't discussed sometimes because we do not know what sort of consequences we'd have if shared for whatever reason, but for some some of these reaaosn include oppressive structures. And emotional realities, set in a world with its own laws and facts as ASoIaF is, are still important to write in to realize what one feels in their everyday life and have others take a peek into that. But it also doesn't always have to be so damn apocalyptic either, because these characters are playthings of emotional reality, narrative, and philosophy which are all examinable. We as readers can/learn to examine or spy on the trajectory and themes of the fiction and leave the rest to the story as we go about your day.

It is related (not the exact same but there is a relation) to giving horror stories to children--stuff like Coraline--things some adults repeatedly wonder today why we/they were exposed to some films or stories. Some things they can should not be for kids: kids love to be scared, too but more than that they can get scared, get thrilled, get sad in a controlled environment while still familiarize themselves with stuff that one may not be able to articulate in just human conversation or is deliberately removed from them. It also promotes empathy in them bc they get familiarized with how people cause each other pain or the depth/process/development of different types of human suffering.

It is related (not the exact same but there is a relation) to giving horror stories to children--stuff like Coraline--things some adults repeatedly wonder today why we/they were exposed to some films or stories. Some things they can should not be for kids: kids love to be scared, too but more than that they can get scared, get thrilled, get sad in a controlled environment while still familiarize themselves with stuff that one may not be able to articulate in just hunan conversation or is deliberately removed from them.

Problem is that they don't grow some reflexes to avoid, say, predatory behavior, which Coraline shows through the Beldam.

And if I hadn't read stuff like Anne Rice's novels--which people make the mistake of thinking Louis was sexually abusive towards Claudia, when it's really that they are getting that sense from how Louis "stole" away her childhood and humanity in his own horror at his immortality (eternal isolation from the beauty of change that is inherently human), at his horror at his never being able to have experience, that access to that beauty then I have more trouble understanding the value of myself and my fellow human and how that can get mucked up by societal exploitation of the fear of death (religious institutions and their teachings). Yes, his relationship with Claudia is almost mirroring that of a pedo, bc like a pedo he "took away" her childhood for his own lack of self control at his not being able to understand the ramifications of being a vampire and the predator of humanity/enemy of God. And he keeps talking about her beauty and seductiveness (her visual and tactile features like coloring and smoothness of skin, her ability to draw in her adult prey to feed on them). with what we know of him being able to suck her blood out of her body and the oral imagery that can psychologically parallel the sexual, it seems an utter troubling of the innocence we credit to children, baptism did that. That's what Rice wanted you to feel and understand, vampirism and forcing eternity into a child is inherently wrong! no matter how much you yourself are trying to reinforce you own existence's meaning by getting close to "beautiful" things and people. Remember that this is exactly how she, just losing a daughter and w acting said child back and definitely feeling the urge to imagine a way she could have her forever while also going through religious trauma herself. But it is not the thing (pedophilia) itself.

B)

Why do you bother to instruct others to not analyze when you yourself refuse to give a good reason why one should not?! When you claim that you are bringing an "analysis" that is so "simple that it must be genius?" Why do you even make a moral/ethical argument ("we would all benefit from recognizing that all these couples are 'toxic'" as if we don't already know that?!) if it is to tell people to not think?! To not name their own ships and analyze the text/context/subtext to understand what is even happening below the surface of "magical dragonriders"? You yourself did it -- how is it an issue when others do? You don't need to like these things, or to ship specifically how others ship. Just consider why and how shipping and how the "factionalism" in this fandom happens for each ship before you go barreling over telling people that they are amoral for not thinking exactly like you.

If you want to ship a couple just based on the feeling or understanding of what would be good for people's psyche in real life...that they would have both a happy, satisfactory and safe life together in real life based on your own personal preferences or the already agreed upon rules for a healthy relationship....that's fine.

But I, as a Daemyra and Jonerys shipper (these two always depend on the story where Jon and Dameon are politically subservient to these women, not even "equals": Jonerys specifically only if Jon is not her co-ruler not a situation where she is his Queen Consort. He should only be her consort if he becomes her husband and she out ranks him bc as brideoffires on Twitter pointed out, we see that a male partner is highly dangerous for Dany, Jon being the worst for his lineage), argue that the healthier and happier relationships are already RhaenyraxDaemon and JonxDany because of their respective circumstances, cultural/sociopolitical contexts -- their world and personal backgrounds. I not only look at what people say is "healthiest", I want to consider what the people themselves want in a partner, and let's be for real, Rhaenyra's desired partner was Daemon, not HArwin. She loved Harwin, that's for sure. But she wanted Daemon and part of it was for the assurance that he could protect her. (Jonerys is merely for the idea, even though I feel this is ship is more crackish with each passing day). And I do not judge every single piece of fantasy, romance, or romance part of a story by how well it conforms to that image of the realistic, healthy relationship. That's not what I and other shippers go for, including some of those who ship Rhaenyra with Harwin, etc., (since even Harwin is not the ideal modern choice for a woman he little started sleeping with when she was 19 (show) or 17 (book) while being not that far from either Daemon or Criston).

If you are going to use "incest!" and the misapplied "grooming!"/"pedophilia!" arguments to just conclude that every single relationship of ASoIaF is "toxic" (and nothing else) and thus we shouldn't care about who survives or wins or how.....then you also say we should ignore particular aspects of how in spite of the incest, some characters found ways to actually build good enough trust and bonds and when they didn't it wasn't bc of incest but bc of gender political imbalances and sexism (Jaehaerys and Alysanne) and not care about the sociopolitical events, ramifications, and philosophical questioning about identity, sexuality, power, gender, etc. that does go on in ASoIaF. Again, you're saying I/we should not think, that nothing matters at all in this universe, nothing matters. But then, those very things put into question makes this series! It seems like you're saying that the Dance doesn't matter at all...but then why are you here, watching the show and/or reading the books if you did not think the Dance mattered in some way?

And not every shipper ships what they want in real life for every story they create ships for. Ships are made for how well it appeals, and the appeal exists from how/what subtexts one interpreted from the text. Sometimes the conclusions they make are just wrong, other times not very informed or fair. In thise instances, where they et certain lore facts or characterizations completely wrong, fine, criticsims may be even necessary. Other times it's colored by or processing their own traumas, or it's about what shaped the possible/canon relationship that actually inspires the shipping, in which case, I don't think it's worth it to criticize their preference unless it leans into complete delusion that misrepresents the character/story and/or bigotry. The ship shipped is alluring, charismatic, enchanting, and/or engaging and tickling for one reason or the another.

You may argue that realistically, uncles and nieces can't be in healthy relationships -- of which there's no point to this argument in-universe as a serious criticism because this is a series where literal magic-blooded, dragon-riding people marry siblings, uncles, nieces, aunts, nephews in order to maintain that power within their respective bloodlines or that Daemon is a one-dimensional evil, evil person, no cap (he's violent but not crazy evil), and we all already know that obviously this sort of shit shouldn't happen. But these characters are contained within a world they must navigate, and of all the options that Rhaenyra had, Daemon wasn't so bad as us to say he was her doom. Once again, he's been the most loyal to her, which is what she needed.

In other words, Watsonian versus Doylist.

C)

We saw:

Rhaenys and Aegon I -- no known quarrels

Jaehaerys I and Alysanne (pre-Quarrels. It was rather Jaehaerys' misogyny and Alysanne's need to empower herself but also feeling the need to conform in some ways that broke them up but if you are in the habit of not looking past the incest, you wouldn't likely understand that and how it came to be that way with them)

Rhaena and Aegon the Uncrowned -- reasonably harmonious

Jaehaerys II and Shaera [Aegon V's kids] -- no known major quarrels

so we can't even argue that in-unverse, these couples went through their traumas just or only because of incest specifically. Aegon IV-Naerys and Aerys II and Rhaella: these couples' problems were feudal/monarchial/patriarchal problems of the man having too much power over his wife/subject. and going by how the Starks ruled for nigh 6,000-8,000 years....feudalism in some form in this world is going to be here for long after even Dany dies.

So we focus on the revolutions and changes that Dany and Rhaenyra's reigns could have or would have brought for this system.

Back to the Targs, they and Valyrian dragonlords are one only a step ahead of the Westerosi lords, who the Faith allowed, can, and often married their first cousins. As Tywin Lannister did. Yet I have heard/seen nothing about how Westerosi marry their cousins and often. One of Sansa's arranged marriage options was with a Arryn/Vale first cousin.

The prime reason why sibling-marriage is considered taboo amongst Westersoi is because the Faith of the Seven rules that the gods say it so. That's it. There is an absence of logic where some Targ anti claim there is when it comes to why Andal Westerosi reason why incest is bad but still do cousin marriages.

There are even two uncle-niece marriages in the Stark family: "in the north, Serena Stark had been wed to her half-uncle, Edric, while her sister Sansa Stark had been wed to her half-uncle Jonnel Stark (AWoIaF; "Incest in the Seven Kingdoms")". One of these marriages produced children, and neither were ever ruled as sinful by the Faith, nor are the Starks ruled as being all seeds of "abomination".

So.... something is going on here that is more than just "it's incest!" These kinds of questions, not "is this my idea of healthy", are the ones that actually give you answers to how people think, how much does culture influences and where, train you to practice empathy, etc.

D)

It is also Westerosi/medieval/ancient history and general practice to marry what we Western moderns see now as older children (15-17-year-olds) to other teens adults. Real European societies (one of them Westeros was adopted from) still preferred marrying at least 15-16 year olds minimum out of fear of messing with their humors and the girls' physical safety--still delaying consummation.

[Removal of past statement about GRRM and tone for age-gap relationships in story, he has many large-age gaps in the more romantically-told relationships of ASoIaF]

Westerosi custom has the age of majority of 16, but still, both genders can marry or get betrothed way before their 18th nameday. And girls who had their first period were considered safer to bed. It's considered "perverse" to bed a girl who hasn't had her period yet. The incongruence of GRRM's habit of featuring relationships (or suggested intimacies) b/t people w/large age gaps and real life medieval attitudes and practices regarding marriage is a relevant topic, but to claim that basically none of these people felt love or cared about their partners and ignoring how they interact in-text that proves otherwise is fallacious and dumb.

These are screenshots to the link about maidens and the Westerosi age of majority:

That means that from even younger ages, both Westerosi girls and boys understood that they might inherit adult responsibilities and political power, as well as get to be married or betrothed younger than what we'd like them to. And we can expect that since the entire world is modeled after ancient/medieval cultures the people we call teens also experienced this. And even 15-year-old nobles understand that they will be arranged to marry and have sex with (to reproduce) whomever their authority figure chooses, for that's the practice. Because 15-year olds can and do sometimes become lords and ladies with the power to order armies. Fifteen-year-old boys have been trained to use the sword and other military weapons (ahem, Daemon became a knight at 16, Aemond trained under Criston since he was 10, Jon was 14 in the beginning of the ASoIaF books and became Lord Commander around 16-17, etc.).

To call them all automatic forever victims-from-child-brides, etc. is to completely erase/the/does:

Removal of past points about people dying earlier being the main reason for earlier marriages, it's actually more complicated than that, which I simplified in second point below.

ignores that even medieval nobles in real life and in Westeros do try not to marry their kids too young for the girl's safety -- with the first also believing that to have sex too young would deplete your humors (that they themselves did express real care towards their children)

ignores, reduces/makes less significant/important/thematic how Rhaenyra and Dany, for example, actually gain back autonomy by being with Daemon, Harwin, Daario Noharis (Not the HotD, Fire and Blood/canon. They show how fucked that messaging up in relation to how it sets up a cultural presence against the female chastity model of this society by making her the possible aggressor towards Criston....what happens between them also cannot be made 1:1 to a modern capitalist boss-employee relationship).

And you end up dismissing, even not understanding, the bigger stuff of this series, taking for granted how power is imbalanced and different from how it would be in the real, present-day worlds. Like how some people claim Dany abuses Irri when that is far from true; even going so far as to claim this proves she will go mad like in the show...another way to demand her progress and character and misinterpret all the Azor Ahai symbolism tied to her. Misogyny.

If you wanted relationships with absolutely no age gaps, teens marrying each other or adults and uncomplicated fluff and that's it...I'm sorry to let you know that you stumbled onto the wrong place, anon. Even if GRRM decreased the number of prominent age gap relationships, there would have to be one or two within the Targ line because the truth is also that real medieval peoples did have age gap marriage that were early-consummated and a few 12-year olds getting married and having that marriage consummated, even if it was uncommon and frowned on. "Uncommon' reveals that it still happened and that were was enough room for it to happen.

END

Don't pretend as if none of these relationships somehow got you to buy in and be emotionally involved!!!!

I've asked this before: not that there is no such thing as a relationship being unhealthy, but when it becomes about shipping=promoting or always saying this is the exact sort of relationship, 1-1, that people should have in real life, what does "toxic" even mean anymore?

What is this such a catch-all term as if it perfectly encapsulates "evil"? We throw that word around as if people know exactly what you mean 100% of the time in a specific case whenever spoken when that's far from the truth or even truth-seeking. What are you specifically talking about when you say RhaenyraxDaemon or AemondxHelaena are toxic? These are all very different people and GRRM never stays with such black-white thinking.

Politics is the activities associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations among individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status. Shipping has a political interest or consciousness. ASoiaF is politics and magic and exploration of social relations as well as psychological development, which doesn't always mean that we need to "slove" bad relationships. Sometimes it's fun to indulge. Shipping can indicate what the person thinks of what should and should not be prioritized, but is not automatically an indication of moral success or failure because the characters are not JUST models of morality....they are explorations of humanity and psychology. If you cannot reason that a problematic ship should not happen in real life, you need better critical thinking skills instead of censoring people and stories that serve to make people aware.

You are basically saying people who read speculative politics should not speculate.....you've lost the battle anon. Shipping is more about liking the story or one or a few particular aspects of the ship (created by the specific circumstances that made this ship) than its canonical reality or its "healthiness" because of the implied possibilities that one speculates from it. Why would I shut all that creative thinking down for the "healthiness" of people who don't even exist, for patting myself on the back for liking the "appropriate" relationship that is closest to the real life one real people should have?! I don't need that badge.

[memoriastellarum]

kaname x tatsumi I guess!

Send me a ship and I will explain why I do or don't ship it

This is one of those things I could talk about forever... I just have so much to say.  Apologies in advance, but this is not going to be very organized.  Read more because I made this way, way, way longer than expected.  Some screenshots included because this is one of those cases where I think the characters themselves say it better than I ever could do for them.

tl;dr They’re each other’s first real friend after each spending a lifetime of struggling to connect with anyone on a personal level, and no matter how you look at it, they’re very, very special to one another.

What my followers will probably learn about me quickly is that I am just a sucker for endless devotion in fiction, especially when it’s misguided or reckless.  They’ve got that in spades here.  Within the short bounds of the one and only story Kaname features prominently in, you see his shift from desperately reaching for Tatsumi to help him-- just like everyone else around them-- to being the one to say he will protect Tatsumi and he will be the one to help Tatsumi.  He goes from being desperate for absolutely any way to regain what he’d lost, to throwing it away for Tatsumi’s sake once he reclaims it.  And as for Tatsumi, you see him change from someone who is recklessly, terrifyingly giving-- such as kicking everyone else out of a shared living space just to give Kaname, who he doesn’t know, the privacy to speak when he’s upset-- to playfully biting back when Kaname scolds him for not taking care of himself, and being able to be selfish in ways he hasn’t been able to express anywhere else.

One of the reoccurring things that people say about Tatsumi is that he would love anyone, he would forgive anyone.  One of the reoccurring things people say about Kaname is that he was Tatsumi’s most devout follower.  Whether or not these are true, it’s easy to see that their connection is special, and quite a bit different from what the characters around them see.  In fact, Kaname himself gets bristly when called “one of Tatsumi’s followers.”  That’s because, essentially, he isn’t.

Kaname isn’t a follower looking to Tatsumi for succor or salvation.  He has his brother for that.  There’s even a part where he mentions that he sees his brother as his god (Which.  We don’t need to get into that.  Standard Enstars dialogue LOL) And his brother is giving him evidently flawless instructions on how to have the entire school under his thumb, taking Tatsumi for everything he’s worth.  It works, too!  Kind of.  The big wrench in the plan is, simply put, Kaname’s feelings about Tatsumi.

After they spend a bit of time together (or, as other characters put it, after they become practically inseparable) it’s no longer about regaining his place.  He does regain his special student status, thanks to his brother.  That could-- and should-- be the end of it.  But somewhere along the way, Tatsumi’s dream becomes his dream-- although, it might be just as accurate to say that Tatsumi, himself, becomes his dream.  He believes enough in Tatsumi’s ideals that he’s willing to throw away his own goals to help make them a reality.  He lies to his brother about his progress.  He spreads himself thin and performs poorly on many of the jobs he takes on, despite special instruction and all of his hard work.  And, despite how he’s already struggling, he does everything he can to alleviate Tatsumi’s pressure, at high cost to all of the excruciating effort he’s put in thus far.

Side note: it seems Kaname is one of only a few, and perhaps the only one, to be concerned enough about Tatsumi’s declining health to actually really try to help.  I should point out that Tatsumi won’t let anyone help him, although it seems a few people may have offered.  He’d been in and out of the hospital a few times before finally giving in and leaning on Kaname.  And that’s something in and of itself.  Tatsumi steadfastly refuses to allow anyone else to take on any burdens for him.  The reason why Kaname is different, from Tatsumi’s perspective, is because he’s the only one who is trying to walk beside him on his level, rather than follow behind him with him as the leader.

Kaname believes in the kind of person that Tatsumi truly is, most of all.  More than what he hopes to accomplish with his revolution, and more than the seemingly endless forgiveness and boundless love.  Despite how he seems, Kaname is a very vulnerable (and frankly, childish) person and is drawn more to Tatsumi’s kindness than his progress, which is the thing that sets him apart in the end from everyone else who follows him.  By the end, it’s not all about Tatsumi’s groundbreaking success as an idol anymore.  It’s about the personal conversations they’ve had.  It’s about their connection.  In short, it’s because he cares deeply about Tatsumi that he’s willing to go to extreme lengths for him, not as a follower, but as a friend.

It’s in Tatsumi’s nature to do his best to conceal his pain and bear it alone, as already stated.  During his revolution, there was no possible way for him to conceal it, as his health-- physical and mental-- was frequently in such crisis that he was hospitalized.  But many of his first interactions with HiMERU seem to convey someone who is deeply pained by the distance between himself and his friend.  It slips through mostly in wording.  There’s a time where he seems a little taken aback by HiMERU not remembering the conversation where Kaname first told him his real name, as he says it’s one of his most precious memories.  He brushes it off by saying that it makes sense that HiMERU wouldn’t remember, and that it’s been so long that it makes sense that things have changed, but the way and manner he continues to talk about it says to me that it does trouble him.  He’s very quick to show his support for HiMERU, in a way that isn’t really shown for anyone else but his own unit.

I really shouldn’t get into the whole HiMERU thing because that will probably double this post’s length.  But rest assured, I have a lot of thoughts on THAT, too, and how the heart of their miscommunication is solely, 100%, love for Kaname and how differently they experience that.

I think the best way to say what I want to say about them is to post a little of their final conversation, which I absolutely will.  I absolutely recommend taking a look, especially if I did a bad job of convincing you.

[i-d-e-g-a-f]

“demonized her by putting her in a relationship” and “being harassed for existing” yall are one to talk every kataang post i see on EVERY platform y’all are lurking saying “kataang sucks” and telling ppl to kll themselves over the ship. also demonizing her is ironic bc if she ended up with zuko it would’ve just ruined everything she went through and worked for so stay mad fucking freak 💀💀

1. Get the quote right, I said “disservices her by putting her in that relationship.” which is very different from whatever you said.

2. I can’t argue against anecdotal evidence or your experience but I can say in my experience, I’ve always seen people shit on zutara unprovoked and try to justify it with their performative activism or try to act as if it’s okay to make assumptions about someone’s character because of an unproblematic fictional ship. Also I don’t cross tag so if anything is ironic, it’s that you’re lurking in our tags when you just criticized zutara shippers for doing so.

3. Once again I said disservice not demonize, massively different. But for arguments sake tell me what did she gain from being in a relationship with Aang? Did that relationship not ruin everything she worked for? Because the Katara in ATLA was passionate and never stood on the sidelines when she saw injustice. But the Katara we see in the comics and LoK is passive and constantly sidelined to being the Avatar’s wife or mother of the Avatar’s children. Not her own person. She doesn’t even have a statue when everyone else in the gaang does. In season 1 Katara literally protests for the right to learn how to fight and in LoK we see none of the passion. What is exactly so fulfilling about her relationship with Aang? Was it him being an attentive father to their children? Oh, no that wasn’t it. So tell me, would being with Zuko really ruin everything she’s worked for, because it seems like being with Aang already ruins that quite successfully. Katara basically becomes an accessory to Aang which, yes, I would say disservices her! Especially when we’re shown that she is capable of having relationships with people based on mutual respect, compassion, and mutual emotional support. Relationships where they are equals and one is not an accessory to the other. Relationships where they respect each other boundaries and don’t act entitled to another’s affection.

But you know what’s even crazier is that at the end of the day none of that even matters because that is just what I prefer and you don’t have to agree! My problem lies within the fact that I constantly see anti zk’s assert that zutara is an inherently problematic ship or that people who enjoy the ship are problematic or are just hysterical women. Those assumptions are problematic and unfounded and if anything perpetuate misogynistic stereotypes about women being not knowing which man is actually good for them. It also requires an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance to arrive at those conclusions because the people who argue that Zutara shippers only like Zutara because they want a bad boy will talk about how Zuko has a great redemption arc in the same breath. We truly cannot have watched the same show, watched Zuko say “Hello, Zuko here” if they think the appeal of Zutara is that Zuko is a “bad boy.” However, even if it was, that still wouldn’t justify the constant negative assumptions made about the people who enjoy the ship, or the way those generalizations about zutara shippers are used as a way to delegitimize zutara (ad hominem fallacy). I fucking hate kataang and I am open and honest about that, but I don’t go around saying the actual people who ship kataang are problematic or are all secretly incels because that is a ridiculous and unfounded generalization. I hate kataang so I will critique kataang, not try to discredit its shippers in an attempt to make the ship seem less legitimate. I cannot say I’ve seen anti zks and the general fan base behave similarly.

I can’t speak for the anti kataangers in kataang tags because fun fact i have it blocked because i don’t like it! But I will say, although i do not condone going into other ships tags to instigate, there a massive difference between shitting on a ship versus shitting on the people who enjoy a ship. And mind you, I noticed the pattern of people shitting on zutara fans long before i even became a zutara fan. This is a trend amongst this general fan base that flares up anytime new atla content is released and I was venting about it on my page as someone who is tired of it. It is my god given right to vent about a fictional couple I don’t like on my page and to vent about the fandom discourse trends I notice. If you notice different ones and want to vent about make your own goddamn post, don’t act like a coward and send anon hate just because you disagree with me. I have my opinion and you’re entitled to yours. You have your own experiences with this fan base and I have mine. If your upset, vent about it on your own goddamn page instead of accosting me with your dumbassery.

[mayskalih]

Not to be rude and I love your art but... why would you ship kakashi and sakura?? Even if you only ship them when they're both adults, kakashi would never date someone that he literally watched grow up. when they met, sakura was 12 and kakashi was nearly 30... see the problem? even as adults the age gap is still huge and it's kinda creepy for a former teacher and student to date or have sex because those dynamics are still there even in adulthood. besides, sakura had a very deep love for sasuke so i doubt she'd ever get over him if they broke up, and due to his past i don't think kakashi would let himself fall in love, much less with a student. she even still calls him 'sensei' when they're older. it's just weird and kakashi's not a pedo.

Anyways I didn't mean to rant, I mean no hate at all and once again I really love your art especially the kakashi/tsunade ones! have a nice day :)

I find age gaps absolutely normal. My partner is 10+ years older than me, same goes for my parents and other people who are important for me. Older partner does not equate abuse or overpower (if person is a jerk he will be a jerk no matter the age). Difference - yes, but, in my experience, in a good, interesting way and with more respect towards each other. So as long as it's two consentual adults - it's none of my business, both in fiction and irl.

Sakura grew up, she is an independent, strong woman. Not a kid, not his student. And this is when I ship them. And they definitely had to accept this.

To me her love to Sasuke is not a "real love" based on mutual trust and respect. It's a "first love" that was very bright, chaotic, memorable, but it was meant to burn, because Sakura gave everything and got nothing in return . So it took a lot of time for Sakura to stop being blinded by her feelings, to get rid of maximalism and heal the wounds.

(P.S. I will not dwelve into Sasuke's role here and how he also needs a lot of help. But I don't see this help coming from Sakura for sake of her well-being.)

[screechthemighty]

Okay! As joked about, here’s my...essay-thing about Romance-Default Chemistry Brain Worms Ruining Media (as referenced here). It's less an essay and more some barely organized thoughts, but that post did get some traction so here y'all go. 

Now, you may notice I turned off reblogs on this post. That’s because I’ll be going into my opinions on a complex subject matter that also touches on some controversial(TM) areas of fandom, and I’m really not looking to get screamed at or doxxed by randoms. Seriously, I already had one hit post that got me anon hate, I’m not looking to make it two. This is between us, okay? Okay. 

Additional disclaimer: I AM gonna throw some shade at specific ships and fandoms, but I assume you guys read my rules and know the ships I hate but decided to stick around anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, What’s Chemistry?

For the sake of this TED Talk Essay Thing, I'm going to define chemistry as "when characters click in a way that makes their interactions especially compelling and interesting to experience." If you watch them interact and think "wow, I'd watch a show with nothing but them", that's chemistry. Note that this does not have to be romantic. Chemistry can come in all flavors: friendship, family, rivals or outright enemies, mentor-mentee (not always the same as family!), Not Romantic Or Platonic But A Secret Third Thing (drift compatible), and of course, romantic. People tend to focus on romantic chemistry as the prime example, but the other examples do exist (otherwise Found Family wouldn't be the trope it is).

Now, chemistry is a tricky thing. It's a combination of a lot of factors (writing, acting, direction to name a few), and if any of those factors don't work, the whole thing is off. (As an example, I personally did not think Deborah Ann Wohl and Charlie Cox had as good chemistry as Charlie Cox and Elodie Yung in Daredevil s2, and it kind of tanked the whole tension of "will Matt go for Karen or Elektra"). Chemistry is also open to interpretation. Some people might disagree with me about the previous Daredevil point, for instance, and some people might, say, interpret platonic chemistry as romantic chemistry. This is just a natural part of the subjective nature of art and in a vacuum, wouldn't be an issue. As mentioned in the original post, the issue becomes when every character interaction is viewed through a romantic lens.

But Wait, We’re Not Just Talking Any Kind of Romance!

Because guess what besties, even the major types of chemistry come with subtypes. I just wanted to clarify that, in this essay, when I talk about romance, I mean a played straight romance. Not a toxic romance or a tragic romance or anything like that. I mean the narrative wants you to believe these people are legit in love and could get married and have babies with little to no hiccups.

I bring this up because a common point of contention in fandom these days is the “well not every relationship has to be sunshine and rainbows! I find messed up romances compelling! Are you saying that there’s no place for explorations of toxic relationship in fiction?” And that’s not what this post is trying to say. I’m not the BIGGEST fan of toxic relationship stories myself, but they’re not my enemy at the moment. My enemy are the stories that try to sell me on happily ever after when the foundation is made of dry sand and swiss cheese. In fact, this is a point we’re going to talk about later, because people conflating the two is part of the bone I have to pick.

How Did This All Get Started

So 100% this isn’t something that has a singular root cause. It’s more like a slow buildup over centuries of storytelling. If I had to point fingers at one trope in particular, it’d definitely be the whole men and women can’t be friends and any relationship between them is just a prelude to romance of some kind. Someone in a reblog of the original post pointed this out before I could, but this has always been a thing and the only thing that changed is that fandom mutated the concept and made it gender-neutral. Now ANYONE’S interactions are just preludes to romance. Original content cemented the idea in our skulls, fandom just kept building the bricks. Circle of life or whatever.

So if this has been a widespread issue, why did I single out YA lit and fanfic? For YA, it’s for three reasons. One: YA is a huge genre even outside of its age range, and therefore extremely influential. Two: It’s what a lot of fandom content creators consume when they’re at their most prolific and before they get into creative fields themselves. Third (most important): YA lit is really bad about flattening all romances into Played Straight Romances. Granted, so are other genres (rom coms and the shitty “well yes they argue like they’re gonna kill each other but they’re in love, don’t you see” trend), but again, I really feel like YA has a stranglehold on modern content creators and fandom in a way that Meg Ryan movies don’t.

As for why I singled out fanfic, well, obviously, fandom creators consume fandom works, so they’re going to influence them and their outlook just as much as traditionally published original works. Also, fanfic has a MASSIVE influence on creative fields now. It’s terrifying to think about, but it’s true. Fanfics are on the regular published as novels (50 Shades, After, the sTeM-iNiSt books that started as R*ylo fic). A hugely popular YA series started its life as in-universe fanfiction in the author’s other novel (Carry On series). We’ve even hit a point where people are writing fictionalized versions of fandom drama and publishing it as YA books. It’s very surreal.

Effects on Fandom

The overall effect of this phenomenon on fandom is that it makes fandom spaces utterly intolerable. I vividly remember being afraid to get into Welcome to Night Vale because 90% of the fan content was about the Cecil/Carlos and I didn’t want to live through that again after too much time in the Supernatural fandom. Turns out, there’s more to WTNV than the ship! Who knew, right?? But if we want to talk specific examples, here’s four.

Muscles Out Any Conversation of Non-Romance Things: If you don’t ship Accepted Fandom Ship(s), good luck finding content. If you write or draw things that aren’t Accepted Fandom Ship(s), good luck getting traction. God help you if you write gen, because nobody’s reading that. (This is me being a lil salty I won’t lie, but that said, people who read my stuff I love youuuuuuuuuuu.) You want to talk about character interactions in a way that doesn’t relate to romance? Have fun, someone’s gonna derail the conversation. It’s intensely annoying.

Misrepresentation of Media to Outsiders: Okay, so, imagine if someone tried to sell the new Interview With The Vampire show to you based purely on the fact that it has two men in love and neglected to mention any of the rest of it because they themselves were solely fixated on LouStat as “omg so cute.”

Yeah. I bet you anything that if I did a blanket poll asking my followers if they’d ever had triggering media sold to them as something softer by Shipper Types, I’d get a lot of horror stories.

Unthinking Consumption of Weirdass Shit: This one is gonna be controversial so let me start by repeating a previous disclaimer: I am not saying every relationship has to be sunshine and rainbows all the time. I am also not saying that there’s ZERO place for certain subject matter in fiction, as long as it is handled with respect. I’m not calling for us to throw the metaphorical baby out with the bathwater. However, if you have Fandom Brain Worms so bad that you look at interactions between a teenager and a grownass adult, or God forbid, siblings, and think “oh they’re so cute they should kiss and be together forever!!” with zero consideration for what the actual ramifications of something like that would be? Stop. S t o p. Get some help.

Ship Wars + Other Dumb Bullshit Arguments: Basically, if every character interaction is viewed through a romantic lens, but a character has chemistry with multiple characters, people start getting weird and argumentative about it. This is more than just annoying, because ship wars can seriously turn into smokescreen for actually, legitimately harmful viewpoints and nastiness. Racism is a big one st*r w*rs fans I mean what.

Additionally, if you combine points two and three (misrepresenting fiction due to your own shipper goggles + unthinking consumption) you get utterly brain dead takes about how a work that is, say, meant to portray a toxic relationship and explore the ramifications of that is actually the most romantic thing ever. It’s exhausting to watch. And this mentality actually leads into some of the ways that Shipper Goggles ruin non-fandom works.

Effects on Fiction

Limits Interesting Stories: This is basically the same thing as “fandom is entirely about ships” except at the source level. If everyone can only view human interaction through a romantic lens, we’re losing the chance to see other types of stories. Now, fortunately, the market isn’t so one-note that we don’t have these kind of stories at ALL (bless the Found Family trope for its resilience fr), but I do still find it telling that a lot of the stories that take off on, say, BookTok are romances or have a heavy romance element.

Removes the Ability to Truly Explore Dark Subject Matter: This one is kind of related to point three in the fandom section, but if the shipper goggles are gonna only show you Played Straight Romantic Chemistry, then you can’t really say you’re actually exploring dark romance. You’re just writing the same plot with extra trauma added for zero reason. As an example: 50 Shades isn’t a genuine exploration of power dynamics and abuse. It’s a kinky romance that acts like the male lead’s flaws are equivalent to not putting the toilet seat down. It’s an easily solved problem and the power of love can fix him or whatever.

Limits Conflict + Interesting Subject Matter: Related to the above point but a different flavor. Also, this one actually has some overlap with how fandom interprets media, so consider this a “both sides of the coin” problem. If you see all chemistry as romantic, and a specific kind of romantic, that means any problems the leads face have to be easily overcome, not a big deal at all. This is BORING. This LIMITS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. This takes away from interesting questions and explorations of how, say, two fundamentally different people could end up together, or how a genuinely shitty person could come to grow and change given the right support and not just a singular moment of “oh I should stop being shitty.” It negates the drama and heartbreak of tragedies, the real world relatability of relationship where they’re not right for each other but stay together regardless, all the epic highs and lows of actual lived romances in favor of...what, he’s mean to her a lot but they still stay together forever? Is that all? Oh, he just dumps his toxic worldviews in thirty seconds and everything is cool now? Oh, he stopped being mean to HER and that’s somehow shorthand for him no longer being a fascist? (D*sney WILL answer for their crimes one day) BORING. YOU’RE ALL BORING. FOOLS! CHARLATANS! Anyways.

Authors Fighting For Their Lives Out Here: As with fanfic, good luck if you write gen fic (unless it’s found family, my beloved). Have fun watching your attempt at a nuanced take get dissected into the dollar store version. Also, I just know there are authors out there trying to write regular-ass siblings who have to live in mortal dread of what certain people might try to read into their works. This is seriously limiting for writers, because like. You don’t WANT those people as your fans. But you know if the siblings look at each other for longer than three seconds, someone’s gonna make it weird! And you can’t control that, but the thought is all-consuming! I seriously hate it here!!

How The Two End Up Devouring Each Other

So, all of this is bad, but the way that fandom and fiction intersect now only make things worse. For starters, fans and creators are more connected than ever, which can influence how things go. For example, say you're a a mid-tier CW show about monster hunting. Keeping those fans satiated is going to be priority #1. This means that fans talking about their wildest dreams for certain characters (say, two characters who honestly shouldn't be speaking anymore because SOMEONE won't go to therapy and is making it everyone's problem) are going to catch the attention of the highers-up. And those fans are going to be pandered to in order to keep viewership numbers high. And that’s going to lead to exactly the kind of writing issues I mentioned above.

Meanwhile, as mentioned, fanfic is becoming hugely influential on the fiction market. This is in no small part due to the fact that a lot of former fanfic writers are now non-fandom writers. That is NOT a bad thing on its own; where it BECOMES a bad thing is when they start bringing their bad fandom habits over with them. That just injects MORE of these mentalities into the fiction spaces. And then on top of that, the market starts replicating these already tainted works because they’re major money makers, and the curse only spreads.

Then fandom gets their hands on them. Then the tropes and shipper goggles mutate and solidify. Then that infects the fiction spaces. The snake eats its own tail.

Well That’s Depressing, Any Suggestions On How To Fix This?

Boosting works that aren’t the usual nonsense (fanfic and traditional fic) helps. Be more thoughtful with how you engage with media and how you discuss it, especially when sensitive topics are involved. Carve out spaces that aren’t so romance-centered and just vibe in there. Remember, the block button is free. Also, like, don’t be afraid to indulge in the occasional crack ship or “what if” AU where [insert bad guy here] isn’t as evil and therefore the ship works more smoothly, but just remember that it’s not canon. “Remember that it’s not canon” should be a rule on this site, honestly. I have to remind myself sometimes.

Anyways, if you’re reading this, I’m about to do the funniest thing ever and post some ship fic, so stick around for that I guess lmao.

[juusauce]

Angel Baby (ft. Kurolisa) Pt. 2

Disclaimer: This is a fictional story. Names, characters, locations, and incidents are all made up by the author and are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events, locations, or people, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

The mentioned characters are not mine, credit to Furudate Haruichi.

If you hate my ship, please stop reading; I don’t want to block readers, so please be respectful.

Ⓒjuusauce - do not copy, paste, or translate my works anywhere.

border @earthscent

Part 1

I stood and went near the group of women where Miwa was in. They laughed and it got me irritated by what I heard. They looked surprised, especially her, when I butt in at their conversation.

“Ladies, excuse me, may I know what you were talking about, hmm?” I smiled at them to hide my annoyance.

They looked at each other and then looked at me awkwardly. “O-oh? It’s nothing. Uhh, that was all about girly talk, right girls?”

I smiled at them again.

“Did you know, it’s not good for elite women to talk behind other people’s lives.” they looked so pale, bull’s eye! I smirked at them as I excused myself.

I could see from where I was sitting how those filthy men were touching her legs. She looked so nervous but by the way, she brushed it off, not minding their touches and explicit remarks, it got me more irritated.

So it was true, that she’s a prostitute? And what Miwa’s circle of friends said were true? Well, as a matter of fact, what else can I expect from a woman like her? She has a brother to support. Maybe, because of poverty, she was forced to do that, to have money.

“So that was true, huh?” I smirked.

“Huh?”

“Models are escorts too, right? Are you denying it?” I laughed without humor. “But look, why does it seem like you’re one of them?” I said it, intently to hurt her. Somehow, it made me lose my temper. I got irritated when I saw how her eyes panicked.

“Excuse me? What did you—”

“Trying to stay innocent, huh? Did you receive a payment for allowing them to touch you? Did you agree to meet them after this party?”

I shouldn’t flinch. But damn!  I saw her tears falling. I shouldn’t care if she was hurt by my insult, right? But what if she was trying to be innocent? Damn it!

“Hey, man—Oh? Alisa, what happened?” Tooru asked her and he looked suspiciously at me. “Don’t tell me—”

“Don’t cry as if you didn’t let them touch you.”

“Tetsurou!” He exclaimed. “Wait? Did I miss something here?” He coaxed her.

I gritted my teeth. 

“Tooru, stay out of this! This has nothing to do with you!”

“But—”

“I said, stay out of this motherfucker!”

I saw how her eyes looked at Tooru pleadingly, with a tear over it. It’s like she’s trying to show us that she’s about to cry. Damn it! Damn it! She’s not only good at seducing men but also a good actress huh?

“I guess it’s right, isn’t it?” I was fuming mad while looking at her.

“I was trying not to make a scene—”

“Trying not to make a scene or did you just like how they touched you?”

Tooru gasped but I didn’t let him speak. I glared at her. I don’t know if I was mad because she let those fucking perverted old geezer or I was mad because she was pleading at Tooru or I was mad at myself? Damn… damn it!

“I don’t like—”

“Oh? Really?” I snorted with laughter, it was full of sarcasm. “Or did you swallow your pride for the sake of money?” I shut my eyes and scolded myself in my mind. I am confused about how I should feel.

“That’s enough, Tetsurou!”

After I said those words, I felt cold in my stomach. Something about my insults and the way her eyes glistened, made me feel guilty. It’s like she’s not lying, those glistening eyes were the evidence that she was hurt by what I’ve said.

Stop thinking about it, Tetsurou! I’ve been in the business for years and I already know how to distinguish liars from those who are telling the truth. She deserves my insults. Honestly, it was not enough. A woman like her was just like my mother, a whore, a slut or whatever they called it. Acting pity to manipulate men, huh? Do you think it will work for me? Sorry to disappoint you, but it won’t work for me.

“What’s your problem, Tetsurou?” Tooru asked me after Alisa left.

I’m just interrogating her but she was insisting that she was innocent. Tch! What a liar.

“She was acting pure and denying that she’s not an escort—”

He laughed full of sarcasm. “Seriously, Tetsurou? And so what? If she’s an escort, then it’s none of your business.”

“You’re acting like a protective boyfriend here.” He shook his head.

I stopped and realized what I was fucking doing earlier. What the fuckery was that?!! Does it have to do with me? Honestly, it doesn’t. Why the fucking hell I was so annoyed, huh? That was none of my fucking business! But I was hella fuck up, I was annoyed, her, trying to be looked innocent even though she was not!

I glanced at where she was, more annoyed and irritated.

She both has a pretty face and a sexy body, a body that men could die for. She has an hourglass figure, a thin waist, long legs and both of her breasts and ass are huge.

Those men who love paying for sex would like her so much. She would easily be all men’s fantasy with that innocent face, soft expressive green eyes, perfect heart-shaped lips and a sexy body of hers.

I gritted my teeth when I thought about it. Innocent, my ass. She may look like an angel but she’s not innocent like what she’s claiming to be. I couldn’t even imagine her high school or college years with boys making passes at her like a ball. I’m sure those fucking bastard youngsters were too crazy about her for that kind of face and body, right? And don’t tell me, she didn’t like any one of them?

Wait, what?!! Why the hell do I bother thinking about that, anyway? The hell do I care about that!

I was inside of my car, calling my secretary as I looked around, my eyes glued to the restaurant near me.

My eyes widened when I saw Alisa get off the van. Two men went with her, and one of them was Mr. Kazuhito Hyakuzawa, a well-known politician, entrepreneur and investor. He’s notorious for taking models with him and becoming their “sponsor”. That old man is doing dirty work again and his victim today is none other than Alisa. Fuck!

I gritted my teeth, not minding what my secretary told me. I’m completely distracted so I told her something came up and I will call her later. Before she could speak, I ended the call and started walking toward the restaurant.

I almost lost my temper when the valet’s restaurant blocked my way. He asked me about my car so I annoyingly gestured where I parked it. After that, I immediately went inside the restaurant.

“What the fuck is she wearing?” I angrily mumbled it.

Back then, I didn’t care about women’s clothes. I’ve seen a lot of women wear more revealing clothes than her but I was really bothered about it. Maybe it was because of her body, making her clothes look so small for her size or I wasn’t used to seeing her in a dress like that. Shit! But whatever! I shouldn’t be bothered, right?

As she absentmindedly pulled the hem of her very short skirt, it looked like she was uncomfortable. In just a simple movement, her panties would reveal and her breast would spill out from it.

I frowned as I lined up behind her. She took off from the van with Mr. Kazuhito, wearing revealing and sexy clothes and they were near the hotel. Don’t tell me…ugh! Why am I bothered about it? It had nothing to do with me!

But that was so disappointing. Wait! Why should I feel disappointed and surprised about it? In the first place, she was not innocent, she was just trying to be.

“Why were you with him?” I repeatedly asked her, accused her of a lot of things and even insulted her.

I was curious about how she came into that situation? I overheard their conversation, and she promised him something. And what the hell was that? Did she back out because the payment was not enough? Did she regret it? She can’t bear to sleep with that old geezer so she backs out?

I got irritated more when her tears fell after I mercilessly interrogated her. I’m sure she’s doing that on purpose so I could feel sorry for her, but it didn’t work for me.

Her eyes were bloodshot, her eyelashes were too wet because of tears, and her cheeks and nose were both red. She sniffed, trying to make herself better.

What the fuck? I saved her from that filthy old man! And then what now? Why did I feel like I was the one who should feel guilty? Like, I’m the one who should be blamed for it. Wait, am I the one who pushed her to go there? In fact, she willingly went with that old geezer.

Part 3

[clacing]

What's your opinion on Karen/Hikari and Mahiru/Karen/Hikari ?

Karen and Hikari are all I think about these days so I'm sorry anon but you just opened the floodgates

I need to stress that I went into the show pretty much entirely blind and I had no idea Karen and Hikari were characters at all, much less that they were the main characters and main ship. Going off the fandom I seriously thought Nana was the main character and that Maya and Claudine were the main ship. (Un)fortunately all you need to do to get me to ship something is to give me childhood best friends reuniting after being separated for years and having a fuckton of angst between them so uhhhh let's say I was invested right away and only got more and more invested as the series went on and right now I feel like exploding 'cause I expected there to be a lot of fandom content about them but there's only like. 10 posts total which I already reblogged. The Revstar AO3 tag has 2k+ fics and only 116 or so are about Hikaren. They're the least popular ship despite being the main one and I. don't get it. Where is the art where is the meta where are the rambling posts I am alone with my thoughts and I hate it

I guess the one thing I will say about them is that they feel pretty. Derivative. I don’t really know how to explain it but it’s like someone scoured my brain for everything I like in fictional ships and then just built upon that without really adding anything new, so it doesn’t feel like it has its own unique character or like there's anything it does better than other ships.

But still they hit especially hard for me because watching them felt like watching scenes out of my own life (which I realize now is also what Karen and Hikari felt watching Starlight, so there are Levels there). What got me curled up in a ball though was Hikari telling Karen that she was leaving because Karen was becoming too dependent on her (which she was) when actually it was Hikari who was scared she’d grow to live in Karen’s shadow if she stayed and that’s why!!! That’s why!!! The end of the anime means so much to me!! Because Karen took this system where only one person could stand at the top, took this tragic story that inevitably ended in parting, and changed it so she and Hikari could be together. That’s incredibly powerful and ngl I am just a bit upset at how much the movie walked it back.

I absolutely adore the movie. I think it’s a genuine cinematic masterpiece that everyone should watch. But I am slightly slightly miffed that the ending it gave Karen and Hikari feels almost entirely antithetical to the one they got in the series. The series said “Our story doesn’t have to end in parting” and the movie went “jk it totally does”. The series said “Us being together makes us stronger, and it’s what saved us” and the movie said “Actually you need to let go of all your bonds if you want to be successful, which is the only thing that matters”. And believe me I know I’m underselling it and it’s more nuanced than that but at the end of the day it did feel very bittersweet to me.

I understand that so much of Revue Starlight is about letting go and moving on and most of the time it did make sense - Futaba and Kaoruko breaking up was very much needed, Junna and Nana needed to go their separate ways for both of their sakes (but especially because Nana had to face her fear of change at some point), Maya and Claudine are. Well they’re physically in different countries now but their lives are very much tied together forever. But Karen and Hikari have already been apart all their lives, so I don’t get the point in separating them again. “They need to learn to be without each other” They already did!! For twelve years!!! And being with each other again made them better!! Hikari regained her lost brilliance and was saved from her own personal hell, Karen found her motivation again. The idea that all that is just a slippery slope to becoming too reliant on each other and dying as stage girls so that they can never really be together for too long is just. kind of upsetting? Given the note the anime ended up on?

I also despise that Karen is made out to be “obsessed” with Hikari because she fell apart while Hikari was gone but like. Hikari keeps leaving her with little to no explanation for months to sometimes YEARS at a time. Obviously Karen can’t stop being a stage girl just because Hikari isn’t there but also I??? can’t really blame her for having abandonment issues?? She found her best friend again after twelve years and fought the narrative to be able to keep her and then Hikari just dipped the moment they were done with Starlight. Of course Karen didn’t just roll with the punches and move on with her life. That’s not being obsessed that is a normal human reaction 😭

I could rant about my problems with the movie forever but the bottom line is their separation scene was done way too well so I can’t even be mad at it. Like ideologically I disagree with it but they just had to make it the most fucking insane scene I have ever watched. Everything from the direction to the music to the symbolism to the animation and voice acting just goes way too hard. “It’s Hikari [the light] that burns your eyes”?? The little choir that starts when Karen erupts into Position Zeros as Tokyo Tower breaks in half?? I am not the same person I was before. I will forgive them anything for this one scene

Okay FINALLY getting to Mahiru/Karen/Hikari: I really like their trio dynamic but I don’t ship it romantically, and yes some of it is out of spite lmao ‘cause there’s already so little Hikaren content and sometimes I’ll scroll down, find something that seems to be Hikaren fanart, only to then see that Mahiru is also there for some reason. And I mean no offense, the art is great and everyone is free to ship what they want, it just gets frustrating at times. But yeah I just think it’s clear that Karen doesn’t like Mahiru back and that she only has eyes for Hikari. I do like the idea of Mahiru and Hikari though ‘cause the few interactions they’ve had were so fun. Imagine being Mahiru and just chilling with the girl you have a crush on and one day her childhood best friend who she’s clearly in love with turns up after twelve years and decides she’s going to move in with you two. She also keeps catching you pining for your crush and trolling you about it. I would have ended it right there. But Mahiru does grow to enjoy Hikari’s company a lot and she seems supportive of her and Karen so I’m glad! I think Mahiru deserves happiness I’m just on the fence about it being with Karen and/or Hikari

[sour-n-salty-citrus]

Saw something that annoyed me, so I wanted to say

I'm firmly pro-fujin/fudanshi/fujoshi.

Honestly, it's not a crime to want to consume content just because it has romantic/sexual relationships between two men. Yes, even if you're female or afab. For some reason this is a wild take, but it's one I stand by firmly. You don't need to defend your tastes for anyone. Questions like "would you still like this ship if it were straight", or "would you still read this manga if it were about two girls instead" are purposefully trying to bait you.

At the most base level, I guess you could say, girls and women who are straight enjoy content featuring two or more characters of the sex they personally find attractive. Rather than read a story about a straight couple, only one of whom they might find attractive, it's more fun to read about two.

Many straight men enjoy lesbian porn (if, for argument's sake, we are reducing yaoi/BL to *just* the erotic elements, though there is more to it than that). Sometimes it's hot to see two members of the sex you're attracted to getting it on, rather than just one.

This is of course, ignoring that many fujin are neither cis women, nor straight. As well as that many enjoy yaoi for story and relationship and visual elements, oftentimes the erotic scenes are a "bonus". It's like fanfic- some fics are pure smut, some have none, and some have a bit of both for everyone.

"But why do fujin HAVE to read stories about mlm! Why dont they just read het stories?"

Is a non-binary person only allowed to read stories/erotica with non-binary characters? Are asexuals not allowed to read erotica at all? Is a trans person not allowed to read a story with an all cis cast? Some lesbians enjoy yaoi. Is their sexuality no longer valid?

Again, why do these people need to explain their preferences to you? Why do you care so much about what kind of fiction, especially what kind of erotic fiction, they like? It's creepy and pervasive. Policing what people are and aren't allowed to find "hot" or "interesting". As long as fujin aren't acting inappropriately towards real life mlm (which, yes, sometimes a VERY SMALL portion of them can do, but it's mostly younger ones who need educating/aren't mature enough to understand their actions), then, again, why does it matter so much to you what they enjoy?

[pomodoko]

hey uh, the last reblog with the zorua and emmet au, the artist was recently found out to be a blankshipper :,)

Alright, I fact checked it, and it's true. I feel kinda heartbroken about it now.

I don't really know what to do, outside accepting this fact. But at the same time if I don't say anything I'll be lumped in with the whole deal, and I really just want to, not?

Ookay, folks, I gotta lay it down. My opinions about this topic fluctuates constantly so take this message with a grain of salt, yeah? I don't like incest ships in general. I also acknowledge that often times ships like that don't necessarily reflect the moral of the person shipping it. I had a complicated relationship with it because of the culture I was exposed to both IRL and on the internet. Grew up with Pixiv and ffn in the early 2010s I've seen some shit, so I understand there's a lot of morally gray stuff going on in here.

However, I honestly? Don't really care that there's a corner in the fandom that does it. Ships like this have always existed and I've had tags like that blocked for a good reason (for the sake of my peace of mind). As long as there's no evidence for any actual support that they're into real life incest, I'm not about to condemn someone for the completely fictional content from, for, and about adults they enjoy.

Of course, I completely draw the line with child characters because yeah, that's gross af please do Not touch me in a 10 mile radius.

But yeah, anyway. Uhm, I'd prefer not to make a big deal out of this. I don't want people to go into my inbox to debate morality with me, especially over a topic as sensitive as this. Especially over fictional characters that at the end of the day cannot harm me in anyway that matters because I have control over the content I consume.

Tldr; thank you anon for letting me know. I'm glad I know about this more. I am very much against Bl*nkshipping and I have that tag blocked, but I am ambivalent about the shippers themselves (mostly bc I don’t see them). There's a whole can of worms about the relationship between morally gray topics in fiction vs people creating/consuming it that I'm not gonna spill. Please do not debate me I am very tired and I'm nursing a stress headache.

[benice-espeon]

So, what is a pro-shipper?

I see a lot of bad and weird definitions floating around, especially from antis. I figured I‘d make a post with my personal definition, and the one many people in my pro-ship friend circles use as well. Also I can‘t format this well because I‘m on mobile, lol.

Edit: reformatted on desktop so things are under a cut now. Long post below!

So, first things first, pro-ship does not automatically mean someone ships things that are considered “problematic”. Pro-ship does NOT mean “problematic shipping” as I‘ve seen a fair few people define it (lol). Pro-shipping means being against the idea of harassing or being rude to others on the basis of them having a ship you don‘t like. That‘s it! Nothing to do with abusive dynamics or anything like that, it just means “cool, you ship that. I don‘t, but I‘ll respect your ship.”

A lot of pro-shippers I‘ve met are actually highly uncomfortable with “problematic” ships. Many have ships they dislike, or even hate. We all have dynamics and tropes we don’t like, either. And that‘s okay! The point is, and never was, shipping things for the sake of being problematic, or shipping everything. It‘s a pushback against fandom harassment culture, which leads into the next point.

The anti-anti movement (also known as pro-shipping. The terms are interchangeable) started as a pushback against the trend of fandom “antis”; people who would dedicate entire blogs to harassing people over their ships and shaming, accusing, and otherwise being awful to others on the basis of ships. First and foremost, pro-shipping is an anti-harassment movement. Yes, it has evolved further, but that was the original purpose of it.

Now, here‘s a few misconceptions about pro-shipping cleared up, based on my own experiences as well as many others I‘ve talked to:

- Pro-shippers don‘t believe fiction affects reality!!!

False. Most pro-shippers do understand that fiction affects reality. HOWEVER, we also understand that the effect isn‘t a 1:1 ratio, and the ways fiction affects reality is very complex and nuanced topic. Yes, fiction has an effect on reality, but reading something in fiction will not automatically make someone agree with what is presented, especially if what‘s presented is already seen negatively in one‘s experiences.

- Pro-ship/anti-anti is a pedophile dogwhistle!!!

Also not true. Enjoying something in fiction is not an automatic reflection of one‘s real life morals. This is just a generally stupid take.

- Pro-shippers support pedophilia/incest/abuse in real life!!!

Many pro-shippers are actually survivors, and are very adamantly against such things! We understand that problematic fiction is problematic for a reason, but again, enjoying something in fiction is not an automatic reflection of one‘s real life morals.

And a bit of an FAQ:

- Why would you support problematic fiction if you don‘t consume it?

This is a big topic right here that I can‘t really explain in a few sentences. I‘d suggest doing some research on why censorship is bad and who it has affected the worst historically. It also might be worth looking into library codes of conduct and how even libraries are actively against any censorship.

- Why would people consume problematic content anyways, especially if you don‘t support it?

A lot of reasons! The human mind is really interesting, honestly. Sometimes people simply want to see a different point of view or dynamic. Fiction is a wonderful place to explore these things that can‘t be explored in real life, and can be a wonderful creative outlet. For problematic content, many people use it as an outlet for their own personal trauma. A big part of the appeal is that when you‘re creating, you control the outcome, and many survivors find that extremely comforting! Aside from all that, it really isn‘t anyone‘s business why someone is consuming a certain kind of fiction. People don‘t owe you an explanation for you to decide whether they are allowed to consume certain content. Anyone can consume any fictional content! It‘s that simple.

- Ew, why are you getting off on my trauma?

It‘s not yours! It‘s fictional. The trauma is happening to fictional characters and even if you find similarities, it probably isn‘t yours because I can almost guarantee the content creator doesn‘t know you.

- But your content is gross! I can‘t support that!

And you don‘t have to! A large part of being a pro-shipper is encouraging the curation of your own online experience. You can block people, tags, words, etc. so you don‘t have to see it. There‘s no shame in not wanting to see certain content. The problem arises when you harass others over it.

-What about [insert problematic group irl]?

Pro-shipping is entirely about fiction and fandom. Once you step outside of the fandom space and into the real world, pro-shipping doesn‘t matter, and has no affect on other opinions. Sure, many of us share other opinions, but being a pro-shipper is solely about fictional discourse.

So here‘s the bottom line, being a proshipper means being anti-harassment, anti-censorship, pro-curation (such as blocking), and just having fun! Enjoy your favorite fictional content, and don‘t be ashamed to do so.

[charcubed]

Celebrities’ sexualities/relationships, and what not to post where

I’m going to make an all-purpose, general post about this topic, because it seems like there’s value in making one. Anyone who’s been following me here or on Twitter long enough has seen me address this before but often in specific scenarios, but y’know what... let me just make a general all-purpose post too just to lay this out for the sake of my own sanity.

We all know this is a thing: people like to speculate on celebrities’ sexualities and/or participate in “real person fiction” (RPF), and that’s been happening since the dawn of fandom. On some level, I understand why; it's exciting to think a celebrity might be queer especially if YOU are. We all want role models & we all want that to be normalized, etc... and sometimes it’s a case of “like recognizes like”; queer people can spot other queer people. But whether or not one is “correct” doesn’t matter, and either way, celebrities' lives are not for our consumption. They do not exist for our entertainment or speculation. This kind of talk can get out of hand very quickly in a way that ruins the lives of real people. 

So I am here to remind people to be mindful of what you say about celebrities, where you say it, and HOW you say it too.

For example: under no circumstances should you openly post things about celebrities’ sexuality or relationships on Twitter.

If you know this already, cool! Great! Good! Keep scrolling! But not everyone does know this, and either way, it’s always a good reminder–especially because people can get excited in the heat of a moment and these principles can easily accidentally fly out of the window.

Not all social media is “equal” or carries the same weight of potential real world consequence. Tumblr, for example, tends to influence little outside of here as long as the topic in question stays on Tumblr; AO3 fic stays on AO3, or at least it should. But Instagram comments or tweets do not exist in a vacuum or echo chamber the way people often seem to think, and often route back to the celebrities in question in harmful ways. Those platforms are open to the wider world in a way that can translate to very real consequence for the people being discussed.

What do I mean by that? A good example of how things can get unintended attention is what happened recently when memes about Misha Collins and Bill Clinton got out of hand, made their way to Twitter, and resulted in journalists writing articles that Misha felt he needed to address. On a more related note, recently Brie Larson made one offhand gay joke/reference in a personal Youtube video; it then trended worldwide and resulted in many articles too. There is now, unfortunately, high potential that she could be asked about and pressured about her sexuality in interviews in future. Did any of the people tweeting about those topics expect that to happen? Probably not, and yet it did. But these are good examples of how Twitter algorithms have vastly shifted, and keyword use is enough for things to easily and quickly trend outside of fandom’s intentions or control in ways that cause harm.

Putting any celebrities’ personal lives under a microscope, whether unintentionally or otherwise, is never a good idea. But it’s especially not a good idea when it comes to sexualities or personal relationships.

People will say “Shipping is just in the fandom! We know how to behave! What’s the problem? It’s never gone wrong before.” The problem is multilayered, but here are the main issues: the fact that nothing “bad” has happened before does not mean it never will. You can control your behavior, but you cannot control how other people–especially people who are new to your fandom–may or may not behave on the wider internet surrounding the topic of people's personal lives. Posting about it on main on somewhere like Twitter also inherently runs the risk of other outside parties seeing it, being like “what’s all this then?” and then picking it up and running with it further–whether that be ~haters~ or journalists.

People will also say “These celebrities know about this kind of fandom talk and they don’t care!” or “If the celebrities wanted us to stop this, they’d have said something by now!” To that I say: those are a lot of assumptions, when the only “assumption” one should realistically make is that we don’t know celebrities personally, we don’t know if they may or may not be actually closeted/unlabeled (which is their right!), and we don’t know what may make them uncomfortable while other things may not. The absence of "no" or "stop" isn't equivalent to "yes," nor is it citable as defense for questionable or potentially harmful behavior. Silence isn't blanket approval or consent, nor should it be assumed to be in any situation. Just because celebrities haven’t said in so many words “Please stop doing [this specific thing]” doesn’t mean they are automatically cool with whatever a fandom is doing, such as speculating about them or openly pointing out what they think they know about their sexualities or relationships. This includes posts on the wider timeline, or tweets and Instagram comments @ celebrities themselves filled with references or assumptions about their lives that are very not okay.

Even with something like Brie Larson’s situation... A celebrity making a joke or acting a certain way in one environment where they may feel comfortable or more relaxed–like a Youtube video, or a convention with fans, or anything else–does not mean that that celebrity expects or wants worldwide eyes on their behavior. And worldwide attention is what is always at risk on platforms like Twitter or Instagram. 

Ultimately, overanalyzing and calling attention to people’s actions is how people who are allies can be made to feel awkward, or how people who are queer get outed or forced into labels. I literally live in fear of the day when some random journalist starts poking around specific fandoms/celebrities, connects the dots that are out there and are seemingly easy to connect, and then somehow makes their sexuality a topic of interviews. Once it becomes a Topic, it becomes nearly unavoidable for them. That’s what happened to Lee Pace; it’s how many people are forced to come out. At all times, queer celebrities are a stone’s throw away from having to deal with all of that in ways no one should, especially as they get more famous. If you care about any celebrity you like to talk about, or if you care about the privacy of real people at all in the ways you should (especially potentially queer people), this should be a point of concern for you.

So, in conclusion: be mindful. If you must talk about celebrities’ lives on something like Twitter, do it without using their actual names to avoid keywords, because they trend at the drop of a hat out of nowhere and that can ruin lives. Avoid deliberate repetition in your phrases because that’s how accidental trends are made. And, better yet, honestly? Consider just keeping that kind of talk to Tumblr/AO3, and preferably to personal private messages. 

Your ability to fangirl/squee/celebrate a real person’s life is not more important than their right to privacy. Ever. This is not a petty topic and it is not “fandom policing” to say things like this out of concern. Acting from an abundance of caution is always the better way to go, because you lose nothing by being extra vigilant; the alternative of not being cautious enough comes with a high risk of negative consequence.

If we all just operate under the knowledge that talking about real people can translate to real consequences for real lives, and act with an abundance of respect/caution accordingly, then there will be nothing to worry about. And celebrities will get to live their private lives and (if this is applicable) be the authors of their own coming out journeys as they see fit, which is a right everyone should have.

From the bottom of my heart: just use both your empathy and your brain cells, please.