#i don't really like the comedies or really exaggerated acting that they do

[andy-wm]

I have thoughts on Jimin's SGMB

It's the gayest thing I've ever seen.

And by that I mean it's joyous, light-hearted, bright, and fun.

We can all agree, I think, that this is a happy and totally harmless song. Who could criticise Jimin for declaring his love in such a sweet and innocent way?

Of course not everyone will like it, and that's fine. You don't have to like everything he does - or everything BTS does - you are an individual with thoughts and feelings of your own - I hope. But putting that aside you'd have to be a troubled person indeed to take offence at anything here.

So, it is definitely a fan song, right? Jimin is singing to his fans... isn't he?

Maybe.

But if it is (I and I'm not convinced) it's not just a fan song.

It's sweet, so sweet, but....

Maybe it's a little too sweet?

We know Jimin is CUTIE SEXY LOVELY and LOVELY LOVELY LOVELY, but let's be honest, he's also a grown man. And Army are not children (mostly). In fact we have had many many conversations about how ARMY are not children.

But this whole production is pushing the sweet and innocent barrow so hard that I can't help wanting to look underneath and behind and inside to see what's really going on because it's so sweet it's hurting my teeth.

Compare the sophistication and self awareness of FACE to the bouncy, bright and child-like song-and-dance in the SGMB music video. They are WORLDS apart and we were told very specifically that the albums were linked.

"Following his first solo album, “FACE,” where he sought to explore his true identity, “MUSE” documents his journey in search of the source of his inspiration." said the Weverse notification.

So what's really going on here?

What are you doing Jiminie?

And more importantly, why are you doing it?

You could call it a pageant, or a carnival, or a circus - with Jimin as the ringmaster.

But my view is:

This a pantomime. And it's very clever.

According to the Oxford Dictionary, a pantomime is "A dramatic entertainment,  originating in Roman mime, in which  performers express meaning through  gestures  accompanied by music." Yes, that describes it.

Merriam-Webster tells us "[A pantomime] is an ancient Roman dramatic performance featuring a solo dancer and a narrative chorus" That also makes sense.

Oxford also specified that it's a modern BRITISH tradition. "a theatrical entertainment, mainly for children, which involves music, topical jokes, and slapstick comedy." It's a perfect fit.

The British link is already there - Jimin clearly told us he's influenced by The Beatles' Sergeant Peppers Album. There's also the styling of his suit. The stovepipe pants, narrow tie, and fitted jacket are very 1960s (and 1980s) British pop.

There's something old-school about a pantomime. It harks back to childhood, and to the nostalgia of holidays. And the styling of the MV is in keeping with that nostalgic feel too - from the Mountain scene with the vintage film title, to the intertitles - or title cards , to the circular frame of the opening scene.

But back to the Pantomime itself...

A quick google search told me the following are important elements of pantomime. And we have most, if not all of them in this production.

Gender role reversal - TICK

Slapstick comedy - TICK

Colourful costumes - TICK

Audience participation - TICK (the children ARE the audience)

Exaggerated facial expressions - TICK

Take another look at the music video - it's all there.

Wikipedia tells us that pantomimes traditional told fairy tales or folk tales - often love stories - and that the primary role in a Pantomime was:

The 'Principal boy', a hero or charismatic rogue, traditionally played by a young woman in men's clothing.

Smart, very smart. With all the other conversations we've been having a round gender this is totally on the money.

Wikipedia goes on to say "Another pantomime tradition is to engage celebrity guest stars... Contemporary pantomime productions are often adapted to allow the star to showcase their well-known act.... If the star enters into the spirit of the entertainment, he or she likely adds to its overall effect"

Welcome, Loco.

(yes, I know collabs are de rigueur, but that doesn't change the fact that it fits - celeb guests are an established practice in Panto.)

So if this IS a Pantomime (and I'm not saying it definitely is but it looks like one to me), then it's intended to be a sung-story, told as much through dance and gestures as through words.

If it's a pantomime, what is it about?

I'm glad you asked! This little charade is the story of a young person called Jimin who is looking for love. He finds romance easily enough...

but real love takes a little longer.

Fortunately for our hero, he's brave (he will confess to his lover) and he is patient (he encourages them to do so too).

In between, there are shenanigans and goofing...

But our Charismatic Rogue is charming (if devilish) and wins the hearts of the audience - and his lover.

Let's take a closer look at how the story unfolds...

At the start of the MV, as the initial credits appear, Jimin is on stage vibing with his band. Loco is chilling on a rock like a lizard in the sun.

We get the ye olde intertitles, welcoming the audience and introducing.... SMERALDO Garden Marching Band

It's not Smeraldo Garden - Marching Band. It's Smeraldo *pause* Garden Marching Band. Smeraldo (secrets) has the emphasis.

After the intertitles, the scene opens on a group of children - they are ostensibly the audience of the band. They're playing paper-scissors-rock to see who will call for Jimin's attention.

The children run over to him and the tale begins.

Jimin, the main character of this story, immediately launches into song.

He starts off singing about Bangtan - mentioning their harmony (song and personal I think), he shows the Bangtan hand gesture we all know so well, and he sings "we gift happiness every day".

But he mentions June 12th.

Why June 12th?

Why not 13th, their debut day?

BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A SONG for ARMY. He's making it clear that at this point he's referring to Bangtan specifically, not the whole juggernaut of the fandom and fame. June 12th precedes ARMY.

He's made it clear from the start - this is NOT ABOUT ARMY.

Then he leans in and whispers to the children - and the camera -"lets talk about us".

Look at the kids' faces - they're miming shock. Ooooohhh! This is a big secret he's about to tell them - and us.

Look at Jimin's expression - he's just a tad smug. This is not a shocking secret to him, this is a fun secret.

Yes, he is indeed the charismatic rogue of this story.

He sings:

"All the things we couldn't say before

And your hidden feelings too (just for you)

Don't you worry anymore

Since we're together now**

Let's be a little more honest."

So it seems our main character has a LOVER. Someone who couldn't be revealed and who hid their feelings.

<Wow, I have no idea who this could be...>

Hang on, what's happening in the MV??

On his journey, it seems our young hero has a few short-lived romances. And if you look carefully, they are all with men.

He accepts the rose from a man, and plants himself on the bench right up close to .... a man. He jumps up unperturbed, and gifts the rose to (you guessed it) another man.

Jimin manages to sidestep (or completely ignore) all the women except one, who he sends graciously into the arms of a random man before continuing on his journey.

Wait one moment... his romantic partners were ALL MEN??

ALL MEN??

ALL MEN?!!!!!

Yes darling, all men. Let's continue.

So, it seems none of Jimin's previous romances grew into anything more, but he takes his own advice with his mysterious lover and confesses first.

He smirks. He flicks his jacket with pizzazz. He's ready.

He sings:

"Ooooh I love you babe,

I'll come closer to you

I want to hold your hand,

I want you babe (yessir)

Please note the hand gesture in this choreo - it's another one we've seen many times.

The dance ends and Jimin scans the surroundings and spots his old friend...

[Enter stage left: Loco]

Oh look, the friend is a rapper a few years older than Jimin. They seem to have a lot of fun together, Jimin and his rapper friend. There are ZERO romantic overtones here. This guy happily goes along with all the goofing and silliness even though he looks a tiny bit mortified. Either they are both very good actors, or a lot of the time, Loco was holding in his laughter. And Jimin seems incredibly amused by that.

They hang out together until.... something in the atmosphere changes:

The colours become richer, light become warmer, and oh look....

It's *The Golden Hour*

I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP, PEOPLE. HE REALLY DID THIS.

Jimin leaves Loco, chasing the golden light as he sings about "the dazzling sky." Golden confetti (champagne, anyone?) falls all around him and then ...

fucking sunflowers bloom.

SUN FLOWERS.

BLOOM.

FOR HIM.

<I need to lie down and process this>

SUNflowers...

Remind me again what sunflowers are known for? Oh yes, they are symbolic of the sun. Guess what else? They turn to face the sun.

Yup, the sunflowers all turn their faces toward the camera. I'm not crazy, okay?! I'm not.

SMH... let's move on.

Jimin re-joins his band, and the sunflowers do their sunflower thing, and Jimin sings:

"So tell me how you feel,

let whatever you feel

wash over you"

Then he sings

"I love you babe, (yessir)

I'll come closer to you

I want to hold your hand,

I want you babe (yessir)

Please note the hand gesture again

👉 👈

The bridge is next, and Jimin takes us back to Bangtan. As all the stars appear (that ocean of purple light that surrounds them at concerts) and everyone takes their place on stage, they turn up the music. <Are my eyes watering? Perhaps>

"I think we're ready now

<NGL I may have shed a tear here>

Lets begin 1, 2

<Ok fuck, I bawled at this point. Goddammit Jimin!>

Put your hands up"

*cute wiggle-dance commences* and Jimin spots his good friend the rapper again, hiding on the sidelines. He pulls him into the chorus line and they do more silliness and everyone is having a great time.

Confetti- flower petals fall, there's laughter and happiness all around, and they bow and bid us good bye.

The show is over.

*THE END*

But wait, I am not done.

A few more things bear mentioning here:

I saw quite a few comments saying this song is for ARMY.

It is categorically NOT for ARMY. Besides the fact that we already have Closer Than This - a fan song - on this album, Jimin specifically chose a date before debut - before ARMY existed - to place in this song. No mention of ARMY at all. Accept it graciously, this is not for you.

I wanna hold your hand

This lyric is a reference not only to the Beatles song "I Want to Hold Your Hand", It's also a common theme with Jimin and Jungkook. We see them finding any feeble excuse to hold hands, shake hands, touch hands. Yes, we see you two...

I am you, You are me

The gesture used in the choreo when Jimin is singing his confession - I failed miserably to catch it in my screengrab but there's no doubt it's their "I am you, You are me" gesture. Take a look for yourself.

All Jimin's romantic moments happened with men.

I'm not saying in his life, I am saying in this MV. All of them. The only interaction he has with a woman is one brief moment where he grabs her wrist as she passes by and he swings her into the path of a guy behind him. He even scoots around the women and sidesteps them. That can't be accidental. He's making a point.

The addition of 'yessir' in the lyrics makes it clear that he's confessing to a man.

I cannot see any reasonable way to refute this. The BH subtitles include it even though you have to listen carefully to catch it. THAT IS A CHOICE, NOT AN ACCIDENT.

"Even though we're together now"

These lyrics could mean theyre an established, committed couple. But if we think a little broader than that, and a little more literally, who is he together with right now?

It's strategically brilliant.

This is his 'tell all expose' but he has built in a rock solid escape clause by using the panto format. Staging the whole love story - including the prior boyfriends and the man he's now in love with - as an over the top comedy show makes it easily dismissible as pure fiction. By including the fantasy/magical elements he just makes it more so. Deniers will be able to come up with a dozen reasons to reject this... 'It's a fantasy story', 'not all songs are autobiographical', 'he's making a point', 'he's raising LGBTQIA+ awareness'... all true maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that this is HIS song, about HIS muse. If you've been paying attention (and even if you haven't) you will know this is certainly not pure fiction.

AND FINALLY....

The most important one, I left till last. I actually want to scream this, in all caps, in the biggest font possible. But I will restrain myself.

The song is bookended by references to BTS.

That is hugely important. For those who may not be aware, this is a literary device. Bookending a story provides a start and end reference point. Here, the Bangtan bookends provide context for the rest of the lyrics - they frame the lyrics within them. That means the events happening in the song, happen within the context of Bangtan. Reading between the lines, the person he is singing to/about is within Bangtan.

This is not reaching. This is like mixing blue paint and yellow paint together. You will get green paint.

💛+💙=💚

So yes, this song is the gayest thing I've ever seen.

And I DO mean it's joyous, light-hearted, bright, and fun.

But yes, it's also absolutely and totally really really GAY

🏳️‍🌈🐥🦄🌈🏳️‍⚧️🌻🐰☀️🏳️‍🌈

Thank you Jiminie

[zoe-oneesama]

On a serious note, why do you not like Derision? I mean, I can guess why, but I’m genuinely curious to hear your thoughts (if you want to).

What have they done to my boy?!

I guess we'll start with the whole "trauma" thing since that's how the episode starts - with Marinette going on a date with Adrien at the pool but constantly getting heart palpitations at the very idea of it. And not good lovey-dovey crush ones like Sabine thinks. The Actual Panic Attack kind.

This just feels unnecessary AND too late. Unnecessary because there are plenty of pre-established reasons why Marinette could be hesitant to go all in with Adrien (Being Ladybug, the 354th other times going for Adrien has failed or left her humiliated, Being Ladybug). So I don't know why they invented a trauma for her in the final hour and didn't think it was worth talking about before now?

They really came up with this whole scheme to explain why Marinette does Marinette things, like learning Adrien's schedule, planning out everything before she tries to make a move, needing to know everything about him, as if the show hasn't been mocking her for these exact traits and allowing them to blow up in her face over and over again. But NOW it's due to her TRAUMA. So...retroactively when her friends laughed at her or slapped their foreheads in frustration or the show framed her failures as a joke...we know it's actually from a tragic place and can't laugh anymore.

I mean, I was never laughing, but you get what I mean. They framed it like it was part of the comedy and now they're pulling the rug out from under themselves. How are you supposed to laugh when Adrien brings Marinette constipation medicine, or when her pictures of him are blasted all over Paris Television, or the *ugh* Statue Scene plays out and now you know that this is just adding to her pre-existing trauma? They have shot the show's rewatch value.

I never thought Marinette needed a "reason" act the way she was because those were always just kinda The Things Teenage Girls Do when they have a crush. I've admitted in the past to learning my crush's class schedule just to orchestrate running into each other in the hallways more often, and if their crush had public interviews and magazine pictures, I'm pretty sure most kids would also cut out their pictures to keep and would read and remember the interviews. I never really saw her behavior as that weird for a girl her age with a crush and recognize some cartoon exaggeration.

...Stealing his phone was a little weird, though, I'll give them that though Alya is the one who suggested it first...

SO, we enter a long flashback to One Year Ago (with Marinette now on her third Almost-Akumatization, good lord) and learn what life was like for Marinette pre-Origins, and oh boy. It's hell. She's making up illnesses to avoid school, avoiding all contact with anyone in the courtyard, having cockroaches put in her locker, having the Principal catch her "late" for class (after she had to clean herself up from a water prank), gets yelled at by the teacher for being late, sits in paint, mocked in class and then yelled at again by the teacher for pointing out the person mocking her probably planted it, and gets Saturday detention. All in one day. And when anyone tries to talk to her or even glares at the person responsible, they get threatened too.

The main reason this is hell is because Marinette is being let down by every single adult in her life. Sabine just laughs and tells Marinette that she only has a few weeks left with Chloe and it's not like she'll be in the same class as her next year.🙃 Well, why don't you make SURE she doesn't?! Maybe this is just an American vs French school thing, but where I come from, it's totally within your rights to request that your child not be put in the same class as someone else, they could at least put in a throw away line about her parents TRYING to move her, but Chloe's not allowing it JUST to keep Marinette close to her. And maybe take this a little more seriously, Sabine- your daughter is faking illness to avoid One. Girl. That should be concerning, not "lol my daughter is so silly for trying to get out of class."

Damocles finds Marinette and yells at her for being "constantly late" and praising the "anonymous notes" (signed by Chloe -_-) for always alerting him when she's behind, and then later gives her Saturday detention for...someone clearly planting paint on her desk chair? He sees a victim of bullying and punishes her for it. At the end of the episode he even suspends Socqueline for something that happened outside of school, yet in "Jubilation" she's pumping him up as The Best Principal?! Does this show thinks we're stupid or something?!

Mendeleiev also yells at Marinette for being late. She allows Chloe to make fun of Marinette for looking depressed when she comes in and allows Chloe to mock Marinette for sitting in paint, but when Marinette doesn't even stand up for herself but just accuses Chloe of putting the paint there, THEN Mendeleiev has something to say, and it's to Marinette? For "groundlessly" accusing the only person in the room laughing at Marinette, the one who was just making fun of her, the one who kept her eyes on Marinette so she could watch her sit in the paint?

Marinette tells Socqueline that all the adults are scared of Chloe, but that's not what I saw. Sure, at the end of the episode Damocles is afraid when Chloe pulls a "Lady Wifi" to force him to punish Socqueline for smashing Sabrina's phone, but the sequence of events played out more like the adults participating in the bullying. It wasn't like Damocles was sympathetic to Marinette and then Chloe cleared her throat, so he straightened up nervously and started berating Marinette. It wasn't like Marinette accused Chloe and then Chloe glared at Mendeleiev, forcing her to finally intervene. All the adults see what's going on and are either completely oblivious or don't care.

Also, Chloe totally unprompted says this:

GET A LIFE, what is your PROBLEM?! Like, why have a flashback episode and not have it explain what Chloe's fixation on Marinette even is?! It doesn't have to be big or anything! Like, have Marinette trip and spill something on Chloe in art class! Just do something!

And like, I totally get that irl bullies just choose their targets for no real reason and this is just another example of that, but to this level?! Just...get a hobby!

And then there's the big thing they did in this stupid episode. The unforgivable. The reprehensible.

This fucking guy.

It's been so long since we've seen Bully Kim that I was pretty sure he was left behind entirely on the draft floor. Sure, Kim is still capable of being insensitive or not thinking long-term, but he was a good kid. He roots for his friends and wants everyone to have a good time.

Hell, I could even buy that Kim was dumb enough to believe Chloe when she claims what he did was a funny practical joke that they'd all laugh about later...until Socqueline came up and yelled at him that he should be ashamed of himself.

And Ondine yelled at him in the present that he should be ashamed of himself.

And it's a year later and he should have realized by now that he should be ashamed of himself.

Kim is dumb, that's just a fact, but the way he doubles down and is so sure of himself that NO it's everyone ELSE who has a problem because they can't take a JOKE? Like...why?! Why did they co-sign on this character assassination?!

Just make him become akumatized because he's A S H A M E D of what he did now that he's finally sitting down and thinking about it a year later! He can keep the same look and motif, just have Monarch stroke the part of him that doesn't want him to be the jerk, the old Kim! It's totally normal, especially for a kid, to want to believe that they're not the bad guy even with all the evidence pointing to it, so I could even see the akuma being exactly the same.

But naur, it's KIM who talks like a right-wing podcast douche bag, complaining that you can't just speak your mind these days and everyone needs to get a sense of humor, they just don't GET it man, this is just how he IS brah, take it or leave it! His akuma's even named "Dark Humor", like edgy losers on reddit who make racist/sexist jokes and then get mad when he's downvoted and boo'd out of a forum. God, we just CAN'T TAKE A JOKE I guess.

I'm glad this is resolved by Ladybug gluing a toilet to his head.

I just...I feel like this could've worked in Season 1, or Season 2. Like...put it before Dark Cupid or before Syren or something. That way, Kim being a total douche is the starting point of his character arc, not the Season 5 Post-Hero Run point, ugh.

It'd also make this stupid line make more sense:

I'm sorry, the girl who got you akumatized after she humiliated you in nearly the same way you humiliated Marinette? I guess that was "just a prank bro" too, right?

Establish Marinette's problems with romance early, so she can overcome them or at least give them the proper context. It'd at least make the show look better if they hadn't made fun of her for 4 Seasons only to drop this bombshell on us at the end. You know...the thing that they just did.

This episode just isn't fun. I hated "Illusion" because all you get to see is the bad guys winning and outsmarting the heroes, but "Derision" is a marathon of seeing the absolute misery Marinette was put through, just to jump forward to the present to destroy a character that I really liked.

Would a kid even like this episode?

[stone-stars]

Transcript:

[8bbc theme fades out] Murph: Welcome to 8-bit book club, the only book club that makes you dumber. (laughs) I'm laughing because Emily has the mic at the ready to interrupt me. [Caldwell laughs.] Interrupt the intro. But yes, I'm joined as always by my life-slash-comedy partner, Emily Axford. Emily: Sup, bitch! Caldwell: (laughs) not really on theme, but okay. Murph: Whatup. Yeah, whatup. Uh, and the, uh-- Emily: Oh, I didn't even think to do that. We just were talking about "bitch" so much before we started this. Caldwell: Yeah. Murph: Yeah, and the, uh, Aerith Gainsborough to my Cloud Strife, Caldwell Tanner. Caldwell: (laughs) What's up, it's me, the music bitch! [Emily and Murph laugh.] Murph: Yeah, what's up bitches! Caldwell: Can't get enough of the stuff! [Emily laughs] Murph: We're say-- we're saying "bitch" a lot today, apparently. Emily came in and she kept calling everyone bitch, and referring to herself as bitch. Caldwell: Emily-- Emily said it was cool if we did it. Murph: She said-- Emily: (quietly) No, I said I'm allowed to. Murph: What were you saying? Because we're gonna go-- we're gonna go out to eat after this, and you said-- Emily: I said (exaggerated) this bitch is getting meat! Murph: This bitch is getting meat. You also-- Emily: (exaggerated) This bitch is getting the 12-ounce New York Strip Steak! [Caldwell laughs.] Murph: You were also talking about daddy. Daddy is taking us to go get dinner. Emily: Yeah, I said-- If we record a very good podcast, daddy's gonna take us to get some steak! Murph: This is… Caldwell: That's true. And you meant like-- Murph: Off to a strange, sexual start. Caldwell: You meant like, our collective daddy. Like, the kind of philosophical daddy, which represents you self-disciplining yourself. Emily: Well-- what I said is that everyone has their own inner daddy. Caldwell: Right. Emily: And inner daddy can treat you if you-- um-- if you are good. Caldwell: Right. And that's what-- Emily: You have an inner baby and an inner daddy. Murph: Awh. What? [Emily and Caldwell laugh.] Caldwell: I don't like where this is going. Emily: Baby I mean like-- child. Caldwell: Right Murph: Okay. Emily: Not like baby like, santa baby. Caldwell: Listen, Murph, we're past that basic bullshit where we talk about self care. It's all about uh-- treating your little inner baby-- [Emily laughs.] Caldwell and Murph: --and being your own daddy. Emily: You have to discipline-- Murph: We have discussed in the past being your own daddy. Emily: You have to discipline your inner baby, and be your own daddy. (laughs) So stop going and getting pedicures and acting like that's what you owe yourself. No, your inner baby is soft. Caldwell: Right. Emily: It needs to start pumping up. Murph: Oh my god. Caldwell: Hey. Spare the rod, spoil the daddy. [Emily cackles. Caldwell laughs.] Murph: Everybody-- Alright. Alright bitches, shut the fuck up. Uh, this week-- Emily: Spare the-- [cackles] Murph: Would you guys--? This one's-- This is gonna be a loose one, 'cause we didn't read a book.

[sunderwight]

I love HOTD fic concepts where Lucaerys and Arrax accidentally kill Vhagar. I want more of them so bad.

Mostly because of the black comedy potential. I could go either way for whether or not Aemond dies too, but jesus that's such a great idea. The oldest, biggest, scariest dragon on the fucking planet and somehow sopping wet twink Lucaerys Velaryon and his tweenage mount manage to take her out? One little alteration and the tone of the whole conflict shifts almost entirely.

Of course some kind of freak intervention is required for it to work, and most of that's still pretty dark. Options I like include Vhagar actually just being so old that she's nearing the end of her lifespan and so it's less that Lucaerys and Arrax successfully kill her, and more that she just happens to die at the worst possible moment for Aemond, or else something like lightning from the active storm striking some of the chains on her (prospects also not good for Aemond with that one), or Arrax gets in a single lucky shot via breathing fire right down her throat and causing a fatal blowback of the whole firebreathing system that is like a 1 in a million chance type thing.

But then what? Everyone at Storm's End saw Aemond flip his shit at Luke and go chasing after him, plus Arrax is like snack-sized compared to Vhagar, you can't even plausibly lie and claim that somehow they instigated the conflict, not even with Luke's history of successfully landing critical hits against his uncle. Not that the "we're the victims" approach would necessarily do the Greens strict favors here, since Aemond's a grown man now and his side are hinging a lot of their cause on appealing to the same brand of Westerosi toxic masculinity that views losing a fight as a sign that the gods don't like you enough.

I haven't seen it yet but I also think it would be really funny if the Greens tried to paint Lucaerys as this like, unholy terror? Like they just have to exaggerate how horrible this one teenager is in order to salvage any shred of dignity from the situation. He is death from the skies! Tried to murder his uncle in cold blood when they were but babes! Thirsted for violence and slaughter ever since! The mad dog son acts at the behest of the evil false queen who spawned him, truly he is Maegor come again! A sinister bastard! And they're talking about this Disney Channel ass kid:

We can all hear the dramatic score from the show gradually distort into circus music in the back of our minds, right?

[volleypearlfan]

On Cringe Culture, Kids' Shows, and Elitism

i'M nOt rEaDiNg aLl tHaT" Ok, scroll down for the TL:DR. (Also on SpaceHey and Blogspot)

The now ex-CEO of Disney, Bob Chapek, has stated the animation is only for children. Never mind that this is the same company that owns The Simpsons, and was founded by a guy who said, and I quote "You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."

Naturally, this has caused universal backlash within the animation community, with many people defending animation as a medium for everyone, not just kids. However, the animation community was also mocked by outsiders for using kids' shows, such as Gravity Falls, to prove that animation is for everyone. In fact, the animation community (more specifically the western animation community) has always been cruelly harassed by outsiders for watching cartoons, especially ones aimed at children.

There is nothing wrong with watching children's shows AT ALL. Watching kids' shows doesn't make you immature, a pedophile, or whatever bullshit that outsiders want to spew. Remember the Walt Disney quote above; many kids' shows are designed to be appealing to multiple audiences, including adults. Kids' shows with adult appeal (or ones that don't annoy the living daylights out of parents, or are legitimately good for kids) are more likely to be praised and recommended by said parents than, say, Cocomelon.

However, because of the stigma attached to kids' shows, many animation fans feel the need to hate on/ignore slice-of-life or comedy cartoons, while only praising plot-driven or "dark" ones like Gravity Falls, The Owl House, and Avatar, and say that they are "not for kids." Again, there is NOTHING wrong with liking kids' shows (these shows do feel more YA-ish though, but that's another subject for another blog). All three of these shows are very high quality, and you don't need to justify your enjoyment of them to outsiders. The constant prioritization of dramatic cartoons over lighthearted ones in the cartoon fandom creates a sense of snobby elitism, and leads to...

...fans of lighthearted shows like Big City Greens and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic being bullied for liking said shows because they are "childish." Which, in turn, leads to fans of lighthearted kids' shows trying to make their shows seem dark in order to make the elitists like them. Back in the day, many bronies made dark fan works based on MLP such as "Cupcakes," "Smile HD," and "Rainbow Factory" and put them out in public with no age restriction, resulting in a bunch of traumatized children. The bronies also acted like they were the target audience and not children.

Apart from the bronies' fan works, MLP also suffered from exaggerated darkness on TV Tropes subpages. Speaking of TV Tropes, there was a very infamous incident regarding the kids' show "Ready Jet Go!" Aside from the stigma surrounding general kids' programs, you also have the stigma attached to preschool shows that they are dumb and for babies (never mind that babies/infants are too young to watch TV, and if they watch it before they turn 2, it would really hurt their brain. Look up the Baby Einstein controversy for more info), especially with GoAnimate users making it hip to hate on Dora and Barney. Not every preschool/elementary show is the same as Cocomelon. There are many high-quality programs for the little ones such as Arthur, Cyberchase, Sesame Street, Bluey, Mister Rogers, VeggieTales, Oswald, Blue's Clues, LazyTown, Bear in the Big Blue House, and WordGirl. Can you really blame fans for liking them when they’re just so good?

With all this in mind, someone once made a Nightmare Fuel page for Ready Jet Go on TV Tropes in order to make it more popular, because the user felt alone in liking the show and it was a big comfort for them. They also cited the snobbery of the cartoon community as a reason for their making the page on the Nightmare Fuel cleanup thread. The page was eventually deleted because it was mocked cruelly by 4chan. It didn't make the show more popular, it gave it a bad reputation.

The user shouldn't have to had made that stupid page with examples exaggerating the show's supposed scariness. If it weren't for the cartoon community being a bunch of elitists, as well as the kids/preschool show stigma, this wouldn't have happened. The sad part is, even though the page is long gone, the page STILL gets brought up by RJG haters to mock the show, its' fans, and TV Tropes for "pissing their pants over Ready Jet Go" which is beating a dead horse at this point. Seriously, make like Elsa and LET IT GO. Please stop bringing it up, and if you’re reading this blog, please don’t look it up. Please have sympathy for Ready Jet Go fans. We’re actually a very nice fandom.

The 4chan bullying also ties into cringe culture. On sites such as DeviantArt, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Reddit, and 4chan, many people are considered "cringe" and cyberbullied for "crimes" like making a colorful character or watching cartoons. The cyberbullies in question are just a bunch of pathetic lowlives who bully people for being happy, because they think that bullying happy people will make them feel better about their disgusting selves.

As noted here, cringe culture affects autistic people the most. Autistic people tend to get really passionate about their favorite things, or "special interests," and like to talk about them all the time and make their own characters. But according to some unwritten rule of society, your OCs have to be as deep as Shakespeare, and you're not allowed to like 'childish' things even a little bit. (I think it's worth mentioning that the Nightmare Fuel person was autistic themselves). Many proponents of cringe culture participate in concern trolling, acting like they don't want so-called "cringe" people to be bullied and want them to be good artists/writers. Cringe culture doesn't make people become better creators, it makes them become boring creators and repressing their true passions.

Every autistic person is different, which is why it's called the autism spectrum. However, it is true that a lot of autistic people enjoy children's media, likely because of how calming and simple they tend to be. For example, Thomas the Tank Engine is very popular with autistics because the engines' emotions are easy to tell, and the show has a chill atmosphere (by the way, the Thomas fandom is a frequent victim of cringe culture). Plus, it legitimately has Tolkien-level lore dating back to the 1940s. I'm not even kidding, look up "The Island of Sodor: Its People, History and Railways." It always pisses me off when outsiders act surprised that "tHOmAs tHe tRaIn hAs A fAnDoM?!?1!" It's based on a book series that's existed since 1945, of fucking course it has a fandom, dumbass.

TL;DR - 'Animation is for everyone' and 'it's okay to like kids' cartoons/lighthearted cartoons' are statements that can and should co-exist. Also, autistic people can like whatever they want and those who harass them are the scum of the earth.

[yuikomorii]

Probably sounds weird but i don’t think Dialovers is as dark as people make it out to be. Some bad things happen there but i don’t think they are more tragic than your average otome game…..?

// One thing about DL is that, in contrast to other dark otome games, where the emphasis is mostly on the physiological horror element of the plot, they know how to blend comedy, romance and horror. Even though the Diaboys were jerks at first, they were nevertheless given likeable traits and funny moments from their debut games, and to be honest, I don't think I could have stayed mad at them either, if I were Yui. It's fine if you don't like such people irl, but keep in mind that they are all fictional characters that are simply made to be entertaining. Furthermore, they evolved so much in the next games that I get the impression that a few of them are even nicer than a bunch of other otoge love interests. xD

Diabolik Lovers is the kind of game that's meant to be played as a FANTASY, therefore it doesn't require any serious thought. Because we are completely aware from the beginning that the love interests are demons and will not conform to human norms, it is not surprising when they begin acting in a Do-S way. On the other hand, some games may seem soft based on their graphics and descriptions, but the players will be shocked to discover how tragic they really are once they begin playing them. It's also worth noting that when HUMAN love interests are shown being cruel, the horror factor increases.

Although otome games are diverse, I agree with you that many of them—including well-known titles— treat dark themes and situations in a more serious manner than DL. In EA, only one route was genuinely classified as traumatizing by a large number of players, and it was more due to the character’s linear progression of suffering from past events than the route itself.

I feel like 90% of DL's cases include something bad happening in one chapter that is either entirely forgotten or has minimal to no impact on the character in the following chapter(s). Basically, instead of exaggerating those moments, just take them with a grain of salt. ^^”

[iouinotes]

Burning Love | Leo Valdez

pairing: Leo Valdez x aphrodite!reader

book: The Heros of Olympians (Percy Jackson Universe) by Rick Riordan

I DONT OWN ANY OF THESE CHARACTERS

warnings: suggestive themes (kissing), little bit of angst

summary: reader fell in love with the camps busiest, funniest (prettiest) demigod, that makes her heart beat faster (and tries not to burst into flames all the time). But she likes that about him too.

authors note: soo, I read Heros of Olympus and Leo was just pure comedy. His character was so charasmatic and funny, I really liked him. Of course, I needed to write for him, ENJOYYYY

________________________________________

Of course I was doomed to fall in love with him. Letting my heart get broken in the process, because I am physically not able to dare myself to talk to him.

What else had I expected? As a daughter of Aphrodite, this was foreseen in my fate. Well, actually it should be the other way around. After all, the ongoing tradition for centuries of the Aphrodite cabin is to break a boy's heart, but in my case it is a little complicated.

I always thought love would be something pleasant, a feeling like butterflies flying around in your stomach and wearing stylish, rose-colored glasses, that makes everything he does seem perfect. Or maybe being in love would feel like watching a beautiful fire work.

The last part is sort of true- my love literally burns for him, just as sometimes his hair sparks, when red flames are dancing through the brown strands.

I remember one time very vividly, when he walked out of the forest, visibly happy, with his hands dirty and his clothes smeared with motor oil, a satisfied grin on his face. His eyes would lighten up, as soon as found someone to talk about his projects.

Leo Valdez is the embodiment of a loyal soul, combined with an incredible humor and a talent for fixing literally anything. And I silently wish sometimes, that he could mend my broken heart too.

He's not like the other guys in this camp who always need attention, act like they're the best, like they're above everyone. No, Leo may have his pride, but he knows what he can do and he knows when to ask for help. This is usually connected with a following joke or a charming grin.

When I look at him, I often wonder how he can be so unconsciously attractive.

It's just that when my eyes find him, I'm almost in another world. And there, only he exists.

It's like he can affect my heartbeat, confuse my thoughts, charge me with electricity and set my heart on fire. All with just a lame joke, a funny remark, a wink or one of his exaggerated smiles.

I don't dare talk to him, only watch his figure from a safe distance, in a crowd where my longing stares go unnoticed. In these moments, where I realise he doesn't even know me, my emotions feel so overwhelming, as if I am the one carrying the sky instead of Atlas.

I wish I had more control over myself, that my cheeks wouldn't blush every time he glanced my way. Because he does that every now and then. And I always stare at the floor in a matter of seconds, letting my hair fall in front of my face. After all, I can't like him that obvious.

Even though I was careful, my feelings were noticed by a few others, all from my cabin. Unfortunately Piper did too. In her opinion, I should just walk up to him, bat my eyelashes and start smiling. She´s convinced, that if I would just talk to him, he would like me.

But that's the problem. If he only liked me, I couldn't handle that. If I actually became friends with him and he wouldnt fall in love with me, then I could be close to him. I mean, not in the way I want it. Like holding his hand, styling his burning hair, kissing him, watching him build something. And being crazy and proud about it afterwards, showing it off with an excited look in his eyes. Wanting appreciation for his work.

I would gladly fulfill his every wish, if he asked.

But it would be terrible having to pretend not to be completely in love with him, at least if I had to let him believe that. Maybe it's actually better if I keep my distance and he never finds out about my crush. Maybe, I would start to believe it too.

All the thoughts make my head ache and I open my eyes to concentrate on something else.

The sun shines on my skin, the waves hit the beach loudly, the straps of my green bikini top hang loosely over my shoulder. I braid a few small braids into my hair, two in the front and one in the back, where my sister helped me. I still leave my hair down so that it tickles my shoulder, I find to like it more that way.

I brush the sand off my shorts and slowly stand up, stretching my muscles and feeling a light breeze on my skin. The summer months are always the most beautiful, such as the holidays are always the quietest time. The camp is emptier than usual, many campers are spending the holidays with their families. Of course with their mortal family, the gods are not very generous when it comes to holiday visits. Nevertheless, the idea of ​​staying on Mount Olympus for two weeks is ridiculous anyway.

Still, there are a few people left behind, including me. My father died a few years ago, and our family is so scattered around the world, so I have no close contact with them. I wouldn't want to put anyone in danger anyway. It's always sad to hear how happy the others are going home, even though I'm happy for them. But for me, Camp Half Blood is my home.

For my benefit, it is the same for Leo. I don't know much about his past, but he doesn't have a parent to visit either. But he claims, that he has more time now to work on his project, something that needs to be finished until the summer solistice arrives.

The path to the camp leads through the forest, always a bit of a nuisance with all the branches and angry nymphs that sometimes insult you. Just because you accidentally stepped on a root or sang too loudly.

Anyway, I just whistle quietly to myself, after all I'm not keen on arguing today and I'm just looking around lost in my thoughts. And because I have nothing to do, I stroll along a few other paths and explore the forest, looking up to the sky and watching the birds. It's quiet and peaceful, it feels beautiful.

Several minutes must have passed because the sun is getting closer to the horizon and the air cools down. I put on the jacket that hangs around my waist, leaving it open and continue to show my skin. When I choose another path, I suddenly see a clearing infront of me.

The next thing I know, I almost have a heart attack. In front of me lays a huge ship with a dragon's head attached to the front. I feel like I almost want to run away, but then I remember something. I know this dragon. It is Leo's metallic friend Festus, who was destroyed on their first quest. I know, because I remember the devastated look on his face, when he talked about it.

Okay, I think to myself. Two options, I go back to camp and forget I was here. Or I'll go in and have a look around. Would that be an invasion of his privacy? But if I would meet him there, we could share a moment. Like in these romance books I read about.

I think for a moment, but being curious was always a bad habit of mine. My legs move in the direction of the ship, it takes me a few minutes to find the entrance, but I manage. When I'm inside I'm amazed, my eyes seem to can't see enough. There are banners with funny inscriptions, maps full of plans, forgotten tools, furniture and weapons hanging everywhere. It's such a mess that it clearly has Leo's handwriting on it.

My fingers run over the open books, I read a few sentences and try to understand the technical language. Maybe he'll like me if I could actually understand his interests. But after just two pages it's hard to remember which button is for which function or which metal is the strongest. I could try to get the same copy, but when I try to read the title, the cover is torn and illegible. And not because of my dyslexia.

I'm so absorbed in my surroundings that I don't hear the footsteps coming. And then I almost have a heart attack for the second time, only this time from someone I'm used for it to happen.

"If I had known I would have visitors today, I would have cleaned." At his voice I freeze. I remind myself to breathe. I slowly turn around, my eyes immediately finding his face, a grin graces his lips, his hair is sweaty and when I lower my gaze, I notice that he is only wearing an apron. Which means, he is shirtless underneath.

Does he want to kill me?

Before I can say anything, he speaks again. Sweet like always.

"I think I know you. You're one of Piper's siblings. She's not here if you're looking for her?" His eyes look apologetically in my direction and I feel my heart beating in my chest. I've never spoken to him. Would now be the right time to ask the gods for help?

"No I- I'm not looking for her." I see his eyebrows raise in question.

"No? Then what gives me the honor?" As he takes a few steps towards me, I almost lose myself in his eyes. Brown and warm, as if a fire of its own glowed within them.

I feel the table at my back and say the first thing that comes to mind.

"The- uh, books." Crap. What should I do now?

"The books here? What do you need them for?" It feels like the temperature is rising, but I don't know if it's me or him. I mean, he's the one who can conjure fire with his bare hands.

"I like to read and thought it would be good to learn something about...metal?" That's probably the stupidest thing I've ever said and I can feel my cheeks turn red again.

"Oh well, luckily I can help you with that. Although I don't read the books for my enjoyment, they are quite useful. Are you looking for specific bands?" He is now standing next to me, looking at me from between the books that are laying on the table.

"No...not really. I thought I might ask you? After all, you are an expert." He seems to like the compliment, because his eyes light up and he winks at me.

"To be honest, I think it's better to learn something from practice. But I can show you some of the books later. Do you want to see what I'm currently working on? I won't light anything on fire in your presence, promise."

His comment makes me laugh and I feel myself relax, I nod and try to mentally prepare myself not to show my admiration for him too much.

He goes ahead and explains some of the functions of his ship - the Argo II. Seeing how proud he is and how he glows with an aura of joy make me never want to let me take my eyes off him.

He's so charismatic and I almost laugh at every word that comes out of his mouth. I feel so comfortable around him. And I didn't think it was possible, but actually talking to him, just made me fall in love with him even more.

He shows me his collection of tools, his magic table, the functions of the different rooms and finally his belt. Which allows him to create almost any tool he wants. It is fascinating, all of it. Him.

"It was just left behind, when I found it here. Whoever left it must have been crazy and I mean crazier than me." We stand facing each other and I smile at him. He looks at me too and I'm weak for just a moment. It's only for a second, when my eyes linger on his lips.

“Did you really come here for the books?" My eyes slowly find his and I shake my head.

"Then why?" We're so close, I can see every birthmark and every stray strand of hair on his forehead.

"I just-" our faces are so close, as if something is pulling us together. I feel his breathing, the heat radiating from him, my heart is beating as fast as if it couldn't keep up.

"-think I'm in love with you, Valdez and I will probably burst in flames, if I would kiss you now. But- thats just a side effect. Can-can I kiss you?" I notice, the tips of his hair bursting into flames.

"You wouldn't even need to charmspeak me to convince me, beautiful."

When I kissed him, the irony of our world hit me, because this time I was the one who felt like I was on fire.

[silverview]

alright i’m shifting back into tlw mode. i'm finally writing a fic from chas's POV and it's sticking a little bit. i know i can never actually do justice to him but the attempt is being made and i have a lot of thoughts, i'm just going to throw them all down in one place

chas might be my all-time favourite in9 character. reece has described the performance as being basically the same as he gives in sardines, which is a fair comparison honestly – the difference isn’t really in the performance or the character as much as in the circumstances. as in, stuart doesn’t do much relatively speaking and he never really has to shift gears onscreen. whereas chas is what you’d get if that character went through literally the full spectrum of human emotion onscreen in the space of half an hour, including an extended closeup on him experiencing the most extreme betrayal and mortal terror it’s possible to imagine, while covered in gunk and immobilised from the neck down. it's an extreme exercise in humanising/complicating a stock character, and it's an extraordinary performance. chas’s vulnerability and humour and courage carry the entire episode. and his little dancey dance. i love him for his defence mechanisms and the pain and heart that's underneath when he lets them drop. i love him for losing his dream, and coping with it terribly, and being forced to rebuild his life and his sense of self. i love him for being a bad person and a good person

and YES i love him for being camp!!!! i watched the original boys in the band recently and recognised so much of chas in some of those characters, especially emory, both as written + performed. crucially the humanising/complicating of a comedy stock character for pathos. tlw is only two seasons out from how do you plead and i think that contributed to some negative reactions about reece's camp performances being too exaggerated and/or too frequent. i don't think many people really noticed that urban explicitly, intentionally speaks & acts that way as part of his job. he is a man who is explicitly playing a character for most of his screentime. why exactly he does it in that particular way is not clear to me. i am desperate to understand that episode & character better, partly because i feel like unlocking it would also provide a key to better understanding their overall handling of gay characters & themes

i've talked before about chas and simon being linked by the experience of death by parasocial rejection. lately i've been thinking about how this strand of rejection (in a less fatal but still tragic form) also runs through reece's characters in merrily merrily and plodding on. "i never responded in kind" = *suffocates you with a pillow* = "move on" = "i don't even know if we are friends anymore." why is he always the one who loves too much, discovering that his feelings are not reciprocated? and why is this tendency punished so much more violently in episodes where it's figured as explicitly gay, hmm? if you read the end of plodding on as resolving the rift in that episode, then it's also resolving this long-running meta arc; if you read it as unresolved then it is also leaving the meta arc unresolved

anyway here's my tlw timeline. i have joe & chas being born in 1965 + 1975 respectively. that puts chas in his early 20s in the late 90s when atlantic 5 was active, 30 when olivia attempted suicide, 39 when he met joe, and 48 when he died. if you listen to the audio described version it literally does differentiate them as being "the younger one" / "the older one," even though that's not explicit in the episode. they do need a bit of an age gap to make the backstory work. idk, i know they have a small age gap irl – it's just funny to me that they managed to turn that into a more noticeable/significant age gap through sheer looks and vibes

and here is my tlw playlist and here is my dedicated chas playlist, which has some overlap and is still evolving and is a mix of songs about him + pure vibes. i get really emo thinking about him listening to eternal flame as a sad teenager and dreaming of finding love someday :/

[wilygryphon]

Ugh. Okay. Derision is out on Gloob. I have been exposed to the leaks already and I have been completely disgusted by this episode and everything in it. I refuse to watch it, even when it comes out on Disney Channel in the States. But I will still offer to you my commentary.

Okay, the prank. I actually don't mind the story of the prank... on its own. I can absolutely see pre-series Chloé pulling it and Kim, as he was portrayed in Season 1, participating in it. But then it quickly falls apart.

It's pretty transparent that the episode only exists to further demonize Chloé, but it doesn't really send much of a message as it doesn't tell us anything new about how she acted; it only shows us more of what she did and what we already knew she did back then. "Back then" is important, as there is no point in showing this to us now, four seasons and seven years later, except to further push the narrative of Chloé being pure evil even now. (Which she isn't, but I digress.)

It's a blatant retcon meant to say that Chloé is the reason why Marinette has trouble talking to Adrien. Not general shyness or anxiety—it's all because she was traumatized by a mean prank that Chloé pulled. Marinette's biggest personal struggle is all Chloé's fault, as are her stalker tendencies (which were previously just supposed to be kid's-show-comedy exaggeration), because she is oh so evil.

It contradicts so much characterization, or otherwise makes characters come off as worse.

It also shows that Marinette was so afraid of Chloé’s cruelty that she would fake being sick to avoid going to school.  But even in Origins, before she got the confidence boost from being Ladybug, she was never afraid of Chloé, just exasperated and resigned.  When Chloé demanded that she change seats, Marinette argued before relenting.  When Chloé put gum on her seat (and she thought she had Adrien do it), Marinette snapped at both of them before simply covering the gum up with a tissue and putting up with it.  Oh, also, if she was oh so twaumatized by the prank, why did she agree to help Chloé do something similar to Kagami in “Animaestro”?  The whole thing is disingenuous to Mari, because she wouldn’t have let Chloé cow her like that or scare her away from going to school.

This prank is supposedly the reason why she has trouble talking to Adrien and telling him how she feels, because she is afraid that she could get hurt if she doesn’t know everything about him or any boy she likes.  Except she only has that problem with Adrien.  Not with Luka, and not with Chat Noir.  Heck, she only stammered around Luka for a second, when they first met. (Not to mention the fact that her issues with “maybe I don’t really know Adrien at all” is because Félix tricked her. (Yeesh, he hasn’t even come back yet and the writers might already have been trying to give him the Easily Forgiven treatment.))

Kim probably would have done that back then.  He was kind of a jerk in Season 1.  But still being of the mindset that “it’s just a prank, bro” four seasons into his nicer, more himbo-ish characterization, does not do him any favors.  But here is where this episode really ignores characterization in pushing its narrative: In “Dark Cupid”, when she heard that Kim was planning to ask out the girl he had a crush on, Marinette encourages him to go for it, and when she realizes that it was Chloé, she says that she wouldn’t have given him the encouragement if she had known.  If he was so cruel to her, if she was so traumatized by the prank that he took part in, she shouldn’t want anything to do with him, let alone support his romantic prospects.  But instead she cared about his feelings and felt awful that he had been hurt, as opposed to recalling the incident and thinking “serves him right”.

Adrien/Chat is down to murder Kim for a mean but otherwise not-physically-harmful practical joke that he helped play a year ago when he finds out.  I can understand him going “For the Man Who Has Everything” on Darker Owl after being put through the fantasy and being forced to give it all up, but this is overkill and not at all heroic.

Chloé ironically gets off the easiest, since it’s just her Season 1/pre-series characterization that we already knew was a jerk and a bully.  But the indication in this episode and in “Transmission” that she effectively forced Marinette to not go to school still contradicts her past characterization and actions.  She was generally petty, plus she loved tormenting Marinette for whatever the reason is.  It just doesn’t seem like she would do it, and again, Marinette would not have let someone force her to avoid school.

This is another episode that bends over backward to make Chloé out to be irredeemably evil due to TA's unexplained hate boner for her character, but it brings everyone else down in its character assassination. The general gist of it might have fit in Season 1, as it would have made sense to add more depth and context to Chloé's treatment of Marinette and her peers in that stage, and it would have given legitimate character development to Kim (and "Dark Cupid" would have then shown his and Marinette's relationship improving). But at this point in the show, it only exists to further dunk on Chloé, take all of the nuance out of Marinette's flaws in favor of blaming them on her, and insist that she is pure evil.

[mdhwrites]

Whats your opinion on Helluva boss's humor? Personally it kinda annoys me how the abuse so much the sex jokes. AND the swearing. It gets repetitive and tiring.

I actually don't think it's that bad. Not amazing or anything but the ensemble cast for Helluva Boss is well made. You essentially have your playful asshole with Blitz, your tsundere bitch with Loona, Millie being able to switch up roles between sweet heart and "I WILL RIP YOUR HEART OUT!" and then all the way on the other side of the spectrum is Moxxie who plays the fool and questions the violence and gratuitousness.

That is a pretty decent cast for most things honestly. It leans more mean spirited but that's in keeping with tonal priorities and humor priorities but it isn't all one note. Loona's comedy is different from Blitzo's. Blitzo and Moxxie do play off one another OKAY (I'll get to it) and Millie works well for bridging gaps. It's not doing anything brave but it's fine.

The problem actually comes more that the overall tone/setting doesn't create enough contrast from the comedy or character interactions and that is what causes the problem. Blitzo is harassed by Stolas. Stolas has a his own person who bitches at him. Blitzo is a dick with literally EVERYONE and picks fights constantly. The most effective contrast ever in the show is actually not even with the angels because of this, everyone just acts themselves and the angels are barely characters until they're assholes too which is a HUGE problem for Vivzie's works in general, but with Millie's family. Taking them out of the city and playing into city slicker vs farm tropes is actually the most varied character writing in what I saw of the show. Everyone is too samey otherwise. The nobles bicker like the commoners, their problems are just bigger. The commoners act as entitled or more than the nobles. No one gives a fuck about anything except their wangsting so they're assholes for no reason which is incredibly disinteresting.

Moxxie is the saddest of all of this because he is meant to be the straight man, the fool who is set up to be knocked down, but when people mock literally everyone around them, and Moxxie never gets shots back, he's literally just a punching bag, the point of a straight man feels kind of lost. He's a fool, like everyone else, he just has a lot more of it thrown at him to the point where it starts feeling like he's comic relief from how people treat him. The show doesn't want to frame it like that but it's not very interesting when it's not unique.

The Rule of Threes exists in comedy for a reason. By then, you can have built up a joke enough to really have it hit hard but repetition, like horror, kills comedy. You already know what the joke is. This I think is MUCH more the problem of Helluva Boss than the cursing. Like Dane Cook, people focus on the cursing when the bigger problem is that you remove all the cursing and what you're left with is very boring scripts that are very repetitive in their jokes. I bet you could make a fucking flowchart for how interactions between the main cast go which is true in a lot of sitcoms but usually takes longer than SEVEN EPISODES to get the vibe of. Let alone in a show that is not a sitcom but trying to be deep and dramatic as much as it's trying to be comedic.

But it has potential so if someone told me it got better in the long run, I'd be inclined to believe them. However... Most sitcoms, or even just comedies, have a Barney or a Kramer for a reason. This one character who is way more exaggerated than the others and is the one with the most outside perspective that others can react off of, if not be challenged by. Almost any action they make is unique because of these two elements when compared to the rest of the cast. They're not entire jokes but dynamic forces that push against the other characters in a way that otherwise wouldn't exist.

For Vivzie's works, these characters are meant to be Charlie and Moxxie but... They're boring. That's the thing everyone makes fun of them for. They don't do jack shit and they're the least exaggerated characters in their shows. As such, their voices vanish and all you're left with is the status quote.

And well, stagnancy and status quote are the death of comedy. I guess that's why it's in Hell though. See you next tale.

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I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[isabelopaque]

bonnie kelly as a character makes me so crazy because shes so much more, real? than some of the other parents. it's still a comedy and everyone's actions are exaggerated but there's a sense of upsetting realism to her character compared to luthers genuinely frightening front or franks behaviors in episodes. she genuinely cares for joyce and it isn't fake or to get something from her but it's so manipulative and unhealthy in it's existence of sweetness. i genuinely don't believe she's not an evil person or purposefully manipulative, i think shes a really damaged person but the consequences of such are so much more evident. she cares for her kid in the way none of the other parents in the show do but also puts joyce into this caretaker role instead of taking accountability. she had not much of a choice in some of the ways she raised joyce, having to do work to survive and thus leaving her with her brother due to shelley not being around, but it's like shes stuck in that time period still of not acknowledging anything being wrong with the situation at hand but joyce is growing older and older and things have already clicked into place for her on her childhood and some of the stuff she went through.

she's unstable and it isn't her fault, but in acting like she does it puts joyce in such an awkward situation. she doesn't want to leave philly in case something hapens, but she can't go home because her mother won't stop inviting over her uncle who she begged her mother to see had hurt her and she couldn't do it. her sisters abandoned the family as soon as they could, taking up jobs not unlike their mother did, and joyce can't really blame them for doing so but now is left entirely with the responsibility of the family and nothing to say for it. she didn't have anyone else besides her mom as a kid besides mac, none of the other parents cared so she had to take care of herself and her mom growing up but she doesn't hate her for it, because at least her mom stuck around.

i think in recent seasons especially post s15 finale, joyce has started like. letting herself realize how messed up her family situation is, not as a joke, or as a comment offhandedly. her dad is dead, and all she has left if her immediate family so she heads back home in grief.

going to her moms house literally resulted in pulled teeth and blood on the kitchen table. bonnie hurts herself, physically, a repentance or distraction or victimization of herself for joyce's sake instead of apologizing or fixing the situation at hand and it's such a visual look into their family dynamic. bonnie wants s much to keep this image of herself as a good mother to her little charlie that in the process she doesn't even treat her like a real person. they go to the kelly house and she's putting on a birthday party for jack but joyce didn't even remember how old she was, never getting parties or big celebrations from her mother and the ensuing scene of joyce slamming the phone over and over is so painful? like certainly in the show she's gotten mad at her mom before but there's this genuine rage at the situation, before having to inevitably take care of her mom and apologize, holding the rag to her bloody mouth. it's such a literal picture of the continous cycle of violence in the home but not actually fixing any of the issues at hand

[roachliquid]

I really used to enjoy Danny Phantom as a teen, but looking back on the show - especially knowing what we now know about Butch Hartman - I really can't say that it's aged well for me. It certainly has its good points - the villain cast being one of the biggest - but there's a lot about the show that doesn't quite gel, or worse, is so distinctly Hartman that it's hard not to see his smug, manipulative, conservative Christian face all over it.

One of the things that bugs me the most is how the show will exaggerate things to drive a certain ideological point home. Fairly Oddparents does this too, of course, but it's in a setting where the entire tone is zany and comedic, so it's easier to chalk up to Standard Cartoon Logic with a dusting of Hartman's distorted worldview.

Danny Phantom, on the other hand, tries to balance that same level of exaggerated 'comedy' with a genuine amount of drama and Cool Superhero Stuff, and it makes the placement of those exaggerations stick out like a sore thumb. Like the fact that in the first episode Sam's "ultra-recyclo-vegetarianism" means she eats literal dirt, in an episode where we're clearly being led to see vegetarianism as an unbalanced extremist position held by radical hippies who don't understand what a Balanced Diet(TM) is.

I have a lot of feelings about this episode, but they can be summarized with "Sam did nothing wrong." In fact, the only reason the school's decision to try vegetarian food is a "problem" is because they deliberately paints it as disgusting and inedible as possible, using the excuse of Sam's suspiciously vague (but assuredly extreme) dietary label to imply that She Is Really Just That Unhinged. It's a choice that comes off as ignorant as it is mean-spirited, and I'm not even a vegetarian.

Mostly, though, when it comes to delivering morals, the show sticks to a tried-and-true format: A character does something "wrong", the thing has unintended consequences that they end up having to fix, and by the time everything is set back to order they've learned a valuable lesson in why they shouldn't do that.

This is a formula that works well when the consequences of the character's actions make a modicum of sense, or are at least thematically related to the original slip-up. A classic example of this format in action would be The Sorcerer's Apprentice, which has a wizard's apprentice decide to try using magic to do his chores for him, only to learn the hard way that he doesn't have the needed expertise to actually manage the results of his master's spells.

Fairly Oddparents used this formula a lot as well, and to my recollection, it works for the same reason the shenanigans in The Sorcerer's Apprentice do: Timmy isn't just breaking rules, he's messing with reality-altering magic. Of course the consequences are exaggerated and unrealistic. But Danny Phantom tries to use this same format without the benefit of a conveniently generic supernatural plot enabler, and as such, a lot of the "consequences" feel tacked on if not entirely forced.

One of the most glaring examples is in S1E6, when Tucker's idle wish that he shared Danny's ghost powers unwittingly reaches the ears of a genie*, who then grants him exactly what he wants. He then proceeds to use his new powers to do all kinds of petty bullshit, and eventually the wish gets corrupted - not because of what he actually did, mind, but because Desiree's wish-granting just works that way - he turns into a monster and Danny ends up having to turn him back to normal. At the end, Tucker concludes that he messed up by envying Danny's powers, envy is bad, and he's not going to do that anymore.

*Sort of. She's technically a ghost, but works like a genie.

The thing is... none of this really happened because of envy. Tucker wasn't even acting on his feelings at all - he just happened to idly wish he had ghost powers in front of someone who could grant them to him. There are definitely lessons to be learned here, like how it's healthier to articulate your negative feelings than to stew on them until they bubble up and fester, but the show isn't going for any of that low-hanging fruit. No, only the most banal and straightforward Christian values deserve to get shoehorned into this plot.

But perhaps the most egregious example is the introduction of Dan Phantom, Danny's evil future self who is spawned when Danny... decides to cheat on a test. Yes, you read that right - an ordinary childhood mistake, which Danny was tempted to make due to nigh unbearable pressure to keep good grades despite spending most of his time fighting ghosts, is what causes him to start down the path of becoming the most dangerous villain the setting has faced to date.

To be fair, this wasn't delivered as "cheating on tests will send you down a slippery slope to mayhem and murder". No, the reason any of this happens is even more ridiculous: Cheating on the test causes Danny's family to be in a local restaurant during a catastrophic explosion, and wracked with grief by their death, he convinces fellow ghost halfling Vlad to basically tear out his conscience (which he happens to be able to do) and then he tears out Vlad's ghost half, merges with that, and becomes The Worstest Guy Ever, Just So Bad You Guys.

Danny fights the guy and manages to beat him (as you do), and then, scared straight by this vision of what he's capable of becoming, comes clean about having cheated on the test. If this sounds like a Fairly Oddparents plot... yeah, it is, it was a whole two-parter and everything. But more infuriatingly, this entire plot had nothing to do with the actual incident that supposedly kicked it off.

I mean, there certainly can be negative consequences to cheating on tests. For one thing, you might get caught and get in trouble (although that's arguably less a 'consequence' and more 'another person's choice in how to react'). For another, possibly more compelling reason, taking shortcuts on a test can cause you to rob yourself of valuable information that you could have learned by doing things the hard way, and which you might need for an even more crucial situation down the road. But none of those consequences involve turning into a horrible person, even in a grounded, non-cartoony sense.

And frankly... cheating on a school test is really just not that big of a deal. Standardized tests, especially of the type we started using in the wake of the No Child Left Behind act, are fucking terrible at aiding in providing a good education. Which, may I remind you, is what school is actually supposed to be for - not for rating students on how honest and hardworking they are. But, you know, whatever, Butch.

Anyway, this happens a lot. It would legitimately be faster to list the episodes that don't follow this format, at least early on. Sometimes the formula works better than others, though even when it is relatively tame, the "values" that the show keeps trying to impart often leave a bad taste in my mouth. What kid needs to be taught that if they ever hang out with the "popular" kids, they're betraying their real friends? Or that it doesn't matter what other problems they have in their life, they just need to put down the video games and apply themselves and they'll get amazing grades?

Butch Hartman, fundamentally, is a man who has convinced himself he understands children's problems despite all evidence to the contrary. Danny Phantom reflects that both in the way the show grasps at straws to generate moral crises, and the ways it distorts even real moral challenges into distorted caricatures of themselves. I'm not surprised the fanfic scene seems to be 50% fanon at this point - the version of this show that exists outside my fond teenage memories is just not good.

[biblically-accurate-dca]

what’s some of your favourite things abt sun and moon?

well for starters their voice is really good ♡

but one of my absolute favorite things about them is how heavily their design influences how they act, while also reflecting them as a character

cause their face is literally like a mask they can't take off.. so they have to perform and exaggerate their own emotions to compensate for it, or risk coming off as unexpressive and creepy. but in doing this, they make themselves into their own caricature and it becomes doubtful how much of their perfomance is actually sincere or not..... plus the fact we don't know how truly separate they are leads to a lot of different ways to interpret them, which i really enjoy

it also makes the book's backstory of them coming from the theater make so much sense, because then all of this is actually contextualized and makes sense!!

plus they literally have comedy and tragedy mask collectibles in the game... and those masks are also on the banner for the theater anyway... so it'd be fair to assume it's at least somewhat canon regardless of what's in the books lmao

[jellazticious]

JELL YOU CANT JUST DROP THIS RANDOM LORE ON THE FLOOR AND RUN AWAY!! TELL US MORE PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU

If this is about the Peppino clone theory then alright, buckle up cheesebags

First of all it's a theory and a headcanon, not lore, I don't want anyone acting like what I'm saying is canon 😭

BUT ANYWHO

I just thought it's weird that Peppino supposedly has never seen the tower in his life before or he has but he gets no association with it BUT he is plastered all over the posters, graffiti, boxes, etc in the background like he was part of the team. There's even like toys and robots designed after his scrumptious physique.

Next there's his malleability. I know this is a cartoon world with cartoon logic but alllll I'm saying is why doesn't Gus have that same whackiness? It's all mostly Brick doing the comedy. The most we have to Gus deforming his body was during the double jump where he turns into a ball. Peppino on the other hand? Turned to cheese, turned to a pizza, turned to a puppet, able to handle being in the front of a rocket, his body contorts during exaggeration of poses, way faster on foot than a rat etc.

He is just as cartoon character as the residents of the tower compared to the human levels of the outsiders like Gus and Stick. I mean yes, Gus can have exaggerated body parts but he is never as exaggerated as Peppino is

Next reason, the WAR level and the very confusing and retconned implication of what Peppino did. Some say it was canon that he was an actual veteran, some say he was technically not a soldier but a pizza delivery guy for the soldiers, and some say he accidentally wound up in the crossfires. Other than the war setting, the level, for zero reason or explanation, transitioned to a laboratory with clones of Peppino and the big ass tube in the bg has Pillar John in it. Cloning is not new to the tower but by god are they SHIT AT IT

Also here's a little intermission because I just LOOOOOVE this one tube in the bg so much

it's so stupid, he looks like he wanna die and he isn't even born yet, that's how you know you're getting a Peppino variant njsngjksrkj

but anwyay back to topic

I'm pretty sure we all think that the WAR level is the tower's last attempt at getting rid of Peppino by making a horrendous cheap move with making him relive his trauma. I love that take so much man, to think that the tower is this desperate because Peppino is SO CLOSE to destroying it that it didn't even have Pizza Time but a constantly ticking timer.

It makes sense with the war part of the level. That is clearly a traumatic event but then it turned to a lab which gets confusing.

I kinda stitched the two together and made them two different memories. The first one came from the original person the clones are based off and the other is Peppino's. I like to think that Faker and Peppino are opposites lol. Peppino has the perfectly structured body but not the mental stability while Faker is smart as hell despite being animalistic with a constantly shambling body. They're sorta the best ones to come out of the lab. but yeah, sorry for putting that tangent there. It's so to give a little context with how Peppino remembers stuff.

His brain is done fucked up that he cannot tell which memories are from him or from Bruno. It's like when you're dreaming and you already have stock knowledge in the dream's universe and it just hurts your brain when you try to pinpoint when exactly you got that information. He'd say some shit about his childhood and full believes he was the kid in the memory, and to Peppino he'd admit that all his memories are hella fuzzy for some reason but he just shrugs it off with "I'm just getting old". Also he kinda gets dreams about the lab and shrugs it off as some weird ass nightmare about the restaurant debt lmao.

(btw, Faker is well aware about Bruno's memories and know how to distinguish it from his own. I really love interpreting him as the alpha of all clones, it's so fun)

But yeah those are my reasons why I formulated and headcanoned Peppino as a clone.

All else that you need to know about this is that Peppino escapes, spends time in the real world, forgets his origins because brains are weird and it does this thing where it forgets traumatic events, and runs the restaurant (instinctual thing???), and seeing that Peppino is thriving on his own, Pizzahead thought how funny it would be to bring his ass back to the tower. Pizzahead is Pizzahead, his choices are whack asf

but all in all, I have always interpreted clone Peppino in all my silly little doodles gbjsbgksrbkj but like no one's gonna ask about it so I never made a peep nor a sound. But now you know lmao, which would raise questions that I'm more than happy to indulge

[no-passaran]

One of the main reasons imo why some people don't like Jesus Christ Superstar is because they don't understand what it is, they don't know what to expect genre-wise and that leaves them confused and stops them from experiencing the deep emotional elements of the story and music. (I'm thinking of the 1973 film but it applies to all versions)

I mean that they see the title itself (Jesus Christ Superstar) and the actors dressed as hippies and disco dancers and the Romans carrying machine guns and the 1970s dance moves and they assume it's a parody. And, yeah, there is a part of humour of course. King Herod's song is the only part I'd really describe as having humour as its main genre, but the ironies (often political and social parallels to our times) and the on-purpose anachronisms are definitely fun.

But that's not even the main thing imo? It's fun and exaggerated and it knows what it's doing and it's doing it on purpose, but the story and the music and the acting are all excellent and heartbreaking. And it seems to me like some people put up a barrier when they decide something is humour/parody, or because they see its aesthetics they don't let the story carry them away and they don't get submerged in it and don't get emotionally affected.

But it doesn't matter that Judas is wearing the campiest outfit you've seen, you suffer with him through every moment. Personally I feel like since he starts singing the very first line of Heaven on their minds, I completely disconnect from my life and now I'm there, I'm only in that story. And with this film/album I feel more intensely than with pretty much any other piece of art.

There are few stories (and I'm counting all films, books, songs, theatre plays, etc here) told in such an emotional way, at least for me personally it makes me feel so deeply. And it doesn't matter how many times I watch it or I listen to the songs, it always transports me and moves me through such a wide range of gut-wrenching emotions. Since Heaven on their minds I feel so deeply for Judas, and even for Pilate after Pilate's dream, and the second part of the Temple it really feels suffocating, and Could we start again, please? makes me want to cry because it's so heartbreaking to be in that situation, and of course Damned for all time / Blood money and Judas' death (my God I'm sick! I've been used! And you knew all the time... you have murdered me, murdered me, murdered me, murdered me!!)

And yes you feel the grief and desperation but also they're dressed like this:

tl;dr: Jesus Christ Superstar is more emotionally-devastating drama (and political commentary) than it is humour (though a subtle layer of humour is always there), but it seems to me that there's people who can't get pass the layer of its aesthetics and that stops them from submerging in the story and its characters and in the end they're left confused because they were expecting a parody/comedy but didn't receive that (besides King Herod's and maybe Simon's songs) and they were too confused to take the characters seriously and listen to what they're really saying and feeling their despair.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk I guess.

[hjemne]

Ilsa, I’ve seen you posting a lot of Trigun and well I’m intrigued by it, to say the least. But just for giggles, would you try to convince me why should I watch it? 😆🤚🏻

AHHHHH!

I didn't think Trigun was going to worm its way into my brain so much but here we are. There is so much to love about it and I adore so many of the characters for a billion different ways. The character type of someone who is made into a killing machine and then is slowly convinced to accept love and forgiveness is my favourite and is all over trigun. So many characters see themselves as monstrous but choose to do what they see as right for the sake of / with the help of their friends. There are moments of silliness and of tragedy, all with an incredibly interesting setting which slowly gets revealed.

Because of the recent release of Trigun Stampede, the community is really active rn (esp on Tumblr!) and it's really cool to see so many incredible fanarts, comics, fanfics and discussions being made. It's very fun to be part of a very active fandom, but also one that is 25 years old and has fanworks that are older than I am.

I really love it, and I would recommend it, but unfortunately I also have some caveats which I gotta mention.

What you gotta know before getting into Trigun is that there are 4 different canon versions and each one has its problems. I wish I could recommend X version as the definitive and best, but that just doesn't exist which is very annoying.

1) Trigun Maximum: the manga

Good: incredible nuances to characters like Wolfwood, Knives, Livio/Razlo. Vashwood subtext is off the charts and their dynamic is incredibly fascinating and central. This is the most detailed and complex story of Trigun and has lots of themes, characters and plot points that don't exist in other versions. Has elements of sexism and sexual violence, but (imo) to show how shitty the world is, rather than to revel in the misogyny. The tone is tragic, with equal mix of hope and pain.

Bad: the female characters of Meryl and Milly get massively sidelined in comparison to their depictions elsewhere. It's a very long manga and has (imo) pacing issues that limit the impact of emotional moments. The art style is beautiful, but notoriously difficult to follow, especially in the many long fight scenes (particularly bad in volume 5). There's lots of disagreement about 'correct' translations and it can be hard to tell which character is doing/saying/thinking what at points which can make it confusing and frustrating to read at times.

Overall: 7/10, I would recommend but maybe not as your first bit of exposure to Trugun

2) 1998 anime Trigun

Good: the silliest of Triguns with some great voice acting. The friendships between Vash, Milly, Meryl and Wolfwood are very sweet and engaging (although it would have been nice to see more of the four of them together). It's a fun overview of the Trigun story and has a very entertaining mix of comedy and serious emotional moments. Lots of hijinks and lots of fights. Milly and Meryl are core characters and get time to shine (it is impossible not to love Milly). This is personal preference but the animation style is kinda goofy in the way it changes styles to exaggerate characters' feelings which I love. The first 12 ISH episodes are very Saturday morning cartoon vibes without being too inane and childish.

Bad: because it only had the first couple of volumes of the manga to adapt from, the mid-season tone shift and later fights feel rushed, a little confusing and ultimately lead to a less satisfying conclusion than in trimax. The misogyny is noticeable, especially in the first couple of episodes, though is limited to a couple of comments in some episodes and doesn't (I think) make it unwatchable. The antagonists are rushed through and it's hard to work out who the 'main' villain is. Tone change is quite abrupt. Wolfwood is a less developed character with a less intense (back)story, Livio/Razlo doesn't exist at all etc

Overall: 7/10, this is what I'd recommend you start with. It has pacing issues and uncomfortable sexist comments, but I think they're outweighed by the strengths of the main casts relationships and the pure entertainment value of it. Not the most satisfying ending, but they were constrained so :/

3) Badlands Rumble (film)

Good: animation is SO crisp. Wolfwood is at maximum chest exposure and actually his character is pretty interesting here. Milly and Meryl are back, but in limited roles. Some interesting world building and Vash and Wolfwood go thru their divorce arc TM which is dumb and funny and angsty.

Bad: Wolfwood is far too pale. The first half an hour is made almost unwatchable by the decision to make sexism and sexual harrassement a way to pad out the runtime. Vash is such a creep it just makes for uncomfortable watching.

4/10 don't watch if you're not already invested, and honestly do yourself a favour by watching the opening scene, then skipping to the 30 min ish mark and watch knowing that Vash has some very tough dried meat in his front coat pocket.

4) Trigun Stampede anime

Good: really cool 3D animation and music. Has Wolfwood's manga backstory and some manga characters like Livio and Crimsonnail, but with very different characterisations. I really liked the episode looking at the childhood of two orphans and how their love for each other was manipulated against them both. Much bigger focus on Knives than the original and more elaboration of his motivations and plans. Zazie is SO much better here than in the original anime. No uncomfortable sexism yay!

Bad: I... don't like tristamp very much. The characters are watered down from their manga versions and Knives is just kinda evil because he was en evil child, rather than the much more nuanced version in trimax. Milly doesn't exist (yet) and they added in a new character Roberto whose role in the story is (or at least was to me) obvious if you know the basics of the hero's journey structure. Everyone has been twinkified and Wolfwood doesn't even have his tits out smh. Vash just comes across as having less agency and his motivations feel weak. I really just dont like a lot of the character decision here BUT to be fair, that's because I'm comparing them to the manga. But also, a main plot point is someone taking over his brother's body so that his sisters can get pregnant and it definitely still feels weird in context. The focus on the two brothers makes other dynamics a little weaker, and has led to a lot of incest-y fandom things which is ehh.

5.5/10 there are some things it does very well and it's very popular for a reason but I personally think the characterisations are disappointing. It's trying to strike a weird balance between being its own, new thing and also nostalgia for original elements, leading to some questionable pacing and plot choices. It doesn't even have Midvalley the Hornfreak.

I would love to be able to talk about Trigun with you and be passionate about the elements of it I love, but also I don't want to recommend it without giving you a fair picture of the parts I'm more critical about. I genuinely love the world building and characters, which are expressed best in the less accessible form of the manga but are also found in the animes. What I'd recommend is watching the original anime first, but also you might need to give it the benefit of the doubt for the first couple episodes which is where the dodgy 90s sexism is most obvious. I'd be super interested in hearing your thoughts and reactions to it if you did watch it, and also please bear in mind that my complaints about tristamp are personal and there are many who love that version so don't take my negativity as fact.