#i hope the other attractions are nice

[piovascosimo]

thank you dave for ~not~ conforming blur at primavera in lat am!

[spinnyspinnyspinnnn]

Since there's an off chance all us Americans getting nuked in November, there's one last thing(not really) I feel I have to share with you:

I do not understand why antis harass proshippers. Really, I don't. I don't see a real point in the matter. And here's some potential arguments I see, and why I think it might be wrong, aside than the morals of harassment.

"But they're all kid diddlers-"

Most of them are kids, from what I've seen, and the ones that are actual kid diddlers who intend to do the diddling are typically shunned from their community.

"But it's a harmful coping mechanism-"

What if they don't have anything else, huh? I'm not trying to really defend the shit but I'd rather see proshippers post incest and age-gap stuff than watch someone else fall to much more graphic coping mechanisms that might end up killing them. And even if it isn't a coping mechanism, why is that our business?

"But proshipping is bad-"

Bad? Maybe. But antis have also watered down their terms. From the research I've done, it's being anti-harassment. Not caring what people do in fiction. It's a stance a lot of us could and should take on, because being against harassment is a good thing. If you bring that shit into real life, then yeah you're a piece of garbage, but I don't see the point in bringing it into fandom spaces and being shunned for it. People have mentioned how proship used to be a default, that us antis are basically the fandom version of purity culture. I don't get it.

"But it's so graphic and-"

That's plain hypocritical and you know it. So many of us antis enjoy dark and graphic media. Hell, I'm writing something with multiple graphic, violent scenes and awful relationships that, since I'm nearing 18 the more I write this project, may end up mildly n$fw at some points if the shoe fits. If we can indulge in our yanderes, in our torture scenes, in our "toxic yuri/yaoi," and all those other things.. the stuff they do seems not that much different, other than maybe the sexual points. Then again, so many books and movies exist that are graphic and s3xual that antis enjoy that it really doesn't matter. If we can indulge in that fucked up stuff, why can't they indulge in their fucked up stuff? What's the real difference here?

But {insert obvious rage bait-}"

Clearly, you've fallen for stuff you shouldn't. You don't need to "fix their headcanons," that's their whole point. People who post shit like that just want attention. And attention you constantly give them. Same with the art posts. You don't need to fix the bait, dude. It's nothing to get angry over, there's bigger fish in the sea.

From what I've seen, most actual proshippers just want to be left the fuck alone, to stop being harassed by us. If we're the "good guys" in fictional, fandom spaces, why do we go out and tell those people to die, to get assaulted, to get abused and harmed, and how to do awful things to themselves, all because of their stance on fandom spaces and the things they may or may not even ship? Are we really being "good" there? Or are we just under the guise that we're good by protecting those characters while we completely disregard how disgusting and horrendous it actually is to say things to real people and real kids?

By the original stance that proshipping and profiction meant(anti-harassment, leave people be, etc.), what proshippers actually claim to be nowadays, most of us could, in a technical sense, be considered proship/profic. That includes myself. If we use the definition most antis who harass proshippers use, that being those who enjoy problematic ships and condone these things IRL, that wouldn't fit. And only one of those things, the problematic ships part, could be considered under the profiction stance as either comship(complicated ship, from what I can tell), or darkship(which is the really messed up shipping tropes that you'd see headcanons of in rage bait posts, but actually taken seriously and thought of instead of being used for attention).

If you read to the end, this is just food for thought. Feel free to block me if you don't agree with any of this. Or, if you have something I'm missing, feel free to engage in some casual discussion with me. I'm not asking to fight or stir up drama, this is just how I feel about things and if you have a different opinion you want to talk about, go ahead and mention it.

Be civil, people and creatures alike. I'll be using tags from both communities to allow a healthy debate on this post. You'll be blocked if you start fighting people or myself.

[rimouskis]

I really should figured out I was gay sooner because frankly when I have a new female friend or acquaintance who I find stunning and very beautiful, 90% of the time when I see her boyfriend/husband my initial reaction is 😐☹️🫥

[me-asterisk]

silly little doodle dump while i slowly slowly work on other things.

me: simon has resting neutral expression and rarely emotes also me: simon makes the stupidest expressions imaginable at all times

[toxifoxx]

truly at the end of the day its all about receiving validation

[averlym]

"oh my soul, is it here? or is it rotting somewhere with my head?"

[melvinthedepressedrobot]

.

[horrorwebs]

why are men literally the fucking worst

[g0thsoojin]

📓🖊🖤

[roostertuftart]

I know you're the Kyle expert, but I knew a guy who thought Stan would be an incel. Thoughts?

Hmmm. Idk, I've seen that float around and I don't really get it?? Like, I can sorta get it more than when people seriously say it about Kyle. Stan definitely seems to fall into more... Viewing girls sort of in that perhaps lightly internally sexist way than Kyle seems to, of having some sort of unintentional separation between boys and girls that makes him kind of view girls as very different types of people friendwise, if that makes sense. Like, say he was dating a guy- I don't think much would change in terms of the guy being an extremely close friend who's been elevated up an extra level to romantic. But Wendy isn't really like that. She's not Stan's friend outside of their relationship.

And okay, that's not to say Kyle is a bastion of anti sexism himself, ESPECIALLY noting earlier seasons, but Kyle doesn't really seem to act the same way Stan does when interacting with girls?? His early season sexism felt more innocent and childish, something he's definitely grown out of now. It was less built on this deep internalized toxic masculinity and more like the "eww cooties" ideas that happen a lot with young kids. Obviously division based on traits like sex is not good under any circumstance, but it doesn't seem to have carried on much in his modern view of girls. Nowadays Kyle just seems to view girls far more equally even when divided from them, and cares more about listening or hearing out where they're coming from and understanding their frustration with sexism, for example. While he doesn't really have many close female friends (and really none of the boys actually do besides Stan), his behavior doesn't really shift at all to trying to be gentlemen-y or something around women, denoting a very equal level view of them.

But, in Stan's defense, we see him interacting with the girls way more than Kyle, and I think him having dated Wendy, interacting with her friends, etc etc over the series gives us way more to work with in that area than we get to with the more or less far in between hints we're given with Kyle. One thing that I think may impact this for me is also kind of that the few times we HAVE seen Kyle's attraction to girls play out, putting aside Leslie bc oh boy was Kyle blindly simping there, he doesn't seem to be as quick to focus on like... I guess vaguely sexual aspects like the other boys, which leads to him just seeming to objectify women less (Not to say that being sexually attracted to someone is inherently objectifying, but there is more of an overlap with people who are drawn by looks and engagement in objectifying behavior).

And then there's how Kyle has reacted to being rejected, and I know the big one is Super Hard PCness that everyone likes to point out as Kyle being a "nice guy", but in actuality, he was extremely graceful in how their relationship ended, moreso than he needed to be with the horrible things Heidi said to him, and only flipped out after being bullied and teased and harassed by virtually the whole school, Cartman and Heidi especially. It was definitely not anger purely because he didn't get a girl he liked, it was anger that someone he'd trusted and tried to help so swiftly turned on him and humiliated him for no reason at all, that once again he was being put down by Cartman, and that everyone else treated him poorly as well, Stan included. There's also Rebecca who Kyle just... Kinda let go. Like, we don't really see much of his reaction but there's nothing to tell us Kyle was angry their relationship was broken off, so I'm counting it at least a little. There's Nichole too, who once again we don't really straight up see Kyle's reaction to her breaking up with him. But we do see how he treats her, how much he tries to find stuff they have in common to talk about, how his only anger of their relationship not working is Cartman's blatant racism and lies about him purposely made to sabotage any chances he does get with this girl that he likes. It's not anger towards whatever choice Nichole makes here, it's anger about Cartman's needless and morally egregious interference. I know this is a low bar to pass in whether a character is decent to women, but Kyle just repeatedly not behaving badly over his breakups is a big tell to me. So often we see male characters act like assholes just because a girl doesn't like them or a girl broke up with them or something. Even with Stan, in fact, we've seen this play out. I mean. He's pretty okay too but we did see him tell Wendy she was a bitch for dating someone else. This is from early seasons, that I wouldn't solely use as evidence Stan is a crazy sexist even now, but it plays a part in this conversation on whether or not you can more accurately call Stan Marsh the incel-ish one of the two.

Okay, but like. Why am I even talking so much about Kyle here when you're asking about Stan? Well, I honestly think that the duality of them as characters reinforces the ideas of what the other is like to the audience, and this leads into a LOT of the extremes the fandom will push them into (the fem/masc debate, the nerd/jock debate, etc etc) and likewise it does so here. When we see Kyle being kinda more normal around girls, even though it's rare we see him like that at all, it makes Stan seem all the more awkward when in reality, he kind of isn't that bad at all?? He's pretty normal with girls for a boy his age, though he could be a bit less of a dick sometimes. I do think he sometimes has this huge focus on looks, and that can be... Not great, but it's not to a horrible evil incel-ish degree by any means, and I'd argue for his age he's a pretty good guy to, say, Wendy- Not that he can't improve a LOT but Idk, his shittiness comes off more as "dumb little boy is sometimes a jerk to his friends" to me than "secretly hates and disrespects women".

But y'know, at the end of the day, Kyle and Stan are more alike than people think about many of these things, this being one of them. Whether or not Kyle or Stan are better with how they act to women is hard to say. I can see why people would be able to twist Kyle into being incel-ish even if I don't really personally think it's based accurately on the information we've been given. I can see even moreso how someone might be able to with Stan, and while I do think there's at least a bit more of a leg to stand on him having some issues with internalized sexism, I don't think it's accurate with the information we've been given either. Neither of them are really incel-ish to me.

Honestly, if they were dealing with the issue of not being able to find a partner, they'd probably mostly internalize it into self blame and feel bad about themselves but not really broadly blame other people. Stan might slump into a depression or put his focus elsewhere, Kyle, if wanting a partner badly enough (I don't think it's ever been his first priority and I doubt it ever will be) would make efforts to fix the problem by figuring out what's putting people off about himself and try to figure out how he can fix it rather than lashing out. (Also I already lightly touched on why I don't think Kyle would redo his actions in The List right here over not being able to get a girlfriend lol)

[yourfavouritetragedy]

Why have i suddenly re-gripped by the tntduo... Hi its 2024 and i spent many long months in 2022 waiting to find someone to replace my waning interest... You would think that would have drained me of all tntduo obsession capability... But no...

[brainscrewz]

[daisyachain]

This is generalization but it does make me feel like I’m losing my mind. Anglo-American romance novels aimed at women—‘what if you, a normal person, were forced into proximity with the smuggest most self-satisfied person who physically invades your space, insults you, acts like an attention whore at best, borderline sexually assaults you, isn’t that great’ and then you go to romance manga aimed at young women—‘what if you, a normal person, we’re forced into proximity with a two faced bitch who tries to control your every move and also refuses to speak or engage with you unless it’s to isolate you from your peers or get mad at you for talking to another living person’

[tenmissedcalls]

actually so confusing being acearo sometimes. like What.

[aeide-thea]

i get a little on my high horse sometimes abt the way in which cishet+ culture will sometimes (usually implicitly) link, hm how to put this, gender hypersaturation with attractiveness—like, dialing up the level of eg Manliness gets framed as inherently also dialing up someone's level of sexiness

this has always seemed totally nuts to me, as someone frequently attracted to very effeminate men+ and very androgynous women+

but i definitely do kind of frame my own self-criticism in terms of like. 'failing at masculine model of attractiveness, failing at feminine model of attractiveness, guess i gotta just go sit by myself in my miserable little mudpit'

which is like. literally what even, self. like. is 'thumbing my nose at all binary standards' not. the nominal objective actually. and yet!!

[exopelagic]

List of my curses:

• Cassandra

• straight boys keep happening to me