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teamcavota · 3 months

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50 milo murphy's law facts

5 not so fun and 45 fun!

Not so fun to start!

The only Milo Murphy's Law official merchandise is a notebook released in Japan for the MML X PNF crossover.

Disney actually apologized to Dan (and I assume Swampy) for the treatment of Milo Murphy's Law. Dan has expressed frustration at the MMLs treatment before, citing the Hiatus between s1 and s2 and the fact it did not air on the main Disney Channel.

Doof appears in more episodes than Cavendish and Dakota in s2 (this is the real reason we needed a s3). Also, while PNF/Doof stuff was planned from the start, Disney did push for more PNF.

When season 2 was airing, new episodes would randomly be released in other countries.

Milo was cut from CATU due to a feeling from Disney that audiences would not recognize his cameo.

ok LAME ones out of the way

On the first drawing of Milo there are three names beside it: Milo, Mikey, and...Monty. As you probably know the Mikey one got pretty far and is the name used in the pitch bible (and was referenced with "I am Mikey!".) The reason Mikey was changed to Milo was not a creative choice, but because there was a popular YouTuber named "Mikey Murphy."

Speaking of, Milo was also just going to be another character apart of a different pitch, but Dan kept thinking he should go into his own show. He went to Swampy and asked him what he thought of Milo (at the time Mikey) and the idea of a show about Murphys Law. it took them about an hour to come up with the concept pitch.

You can find several of MML song dubbings on YouTube and other platforms. Most notably the Japanese version (マイロ・マーフィーの法則) highly worth checking out. Fun fact in a fun fact, Doof and Dakota also share the same voice actor in this dubbing.

In re-airings of some of the first MML episodes, second versions were made that included Cavendish and Dakota in the background.

Yes, Melissa was originally going to feel the lasting effects of the pistachion uprising by remaining looking like one instead of Bradley having his arm turned into a vine. This would have been a source of conflict for her in season 2, but in the end they felt it was too much of a change. As far as Bradley's plant arm it was originally only going to come out sometimes before it was changed to being a constant thing. He does have feeling in this arm.

The Island of Lost Dakota's was going to include a scene with merman Dakota's ("merkotas"). There was also going to be "mutation" Dakotas, such as ones with multiple heads.

There exists a live action version of the Milo Murphy's Law theme song. well, sorta, watch it

Before Milo came out Dwampy made the song "we're gonna do it again."

MML was originally set to debut in early 2017.

Weird Al did not originally come to mind for Milo. One of the idea voices they had was Noah Z Jones (Fish Hooks). They auditioned hundreds of people for Milo, but many had issues such as sounding too nervous in their lines. It wasn't until Alex Hirsch (Gravity Falls) posted a photo with Weird Al that Dwampy realized he'd be perfect for the role.

Sara is based on a friend of Dwampy.

In tune with the popular headcanon/fan theory, it's possible they did actually consider making Cavendish a descendant of Milo. When Cavendish was going to agree he also liked Milo, he was going to say he was his descendant. *this may have also just been a joke line

Milo and Cavendish are meant to mirror eachother in the fact Milo deals with Murphy's Law and Cavendish is the "author of his own misery" in regards to things going wrong.

Another thing they considered was the possibility of Dakota and Cavendish being in a romantic relationship, but they ultimately decided they wanted them to have them represent a strong male friendship.

The Milo Murphys Law crew did keep up a fanart and concept art wall. Here, here, and here are some photos.

There was a baby Cavenpus cut from final productions.

There are no official ages for Dakota and Cavendish. Dan has said he believes Cavendish to be older, while Joshua Pruett has said he believes Dakota to be the older one and by a bit of a margin.

Pistachios came to be a thing in the show because a son of some of Dan's neighbors had been allergic to specifically pistachios. They needed an idea for the larger plot and somehow those two came together. (Swampy also notes it's a funny word).

Several of the scripts for MML storyboarders included just the words, "and Murphy's Law happened."

Dan has made at least one Vinnie Dakota dedicated Tiktok similar to his Doof ones.

The Doof and Dakota lines were recorded together, back and forth.

Melissa was going to have a hamster nemesis named Ham. In the Pitch Bible the name wasn't included, but it's explained it was a pet class hamster that would always escape and end up on her things.

The secret handshake Milo and Zack do in scream-a-tourium was intended to be longer.

The studio executive for MML originally thought The Island of Lost Dakota's was a joke idea until he read the script.

There was a MML kids menu at Disneyland circa 2016.

Dakota and Cavendish were originally not in the shows ideas, nor was any B-plot, but being used to it in PNF the writers room felt they "needed something to cut away to"

Joshua Pruett pitched for the MML x PNF crossover for where when Milo opened his backpack to pull out the thing he needed to save the world it'd be...Phineas and Ferb.

Dakota is the reason parking tickets exist, as he can be a bit careless about leaving time vehicles all over the place. Dakota is proud of this.

Melissa's likeness and name is based on Dan's daughter Meli, as to sorta "balance out" Isabella also being based on his other daughter.

They considered a twist where Bob Block would be an alien wearing a face mask.

"Cavendish Farms" is an episode that never came to be pitched by Pruett where in order to track Cavendish Dakota would try to duplicate Cavendish, though none of them would quite be Cavendish. One of the Cavendishs would have a heart to heart with Dakota, while Doof would ultimately call out Dakota for what he's doing and tell Dakota "you already know what he would do." dwampy rejected this idea because this was a bad idea, to which pruett felt that is exactly why Dakota would have tried it. if renewed, pruett would have tried to convince them more on it.

Chop Away at My Heart was originally called "Jump Jump Jump" and was made for another project by one of Dan's friends. After Dan have asked to transform it into something else for Milo, Joshua Pruett suggested a "Lumberjack themed boyband" in the script.

unfortunate split for character block limit

Dakotas voice was inspired by Elvis Costello. It's also the harder voice for Dan in comparison to Doof.

Mark Hamill originally auditioned to play a teacher on the show, but Dwampy liked his audition so much they decided he'd better fit Mr. Block.

In the MML pitch bible it is stated, "Mikey has a destiny to fulfill, something vital to the future of the planet." The goal of Cavendish and Dakota would be to make sure he stays on the right path.

There IS a full version of We're Going to the Zoo, which was played by Dan in this interview at 3:00:30. Several MML songs have had full versions leaked, implying this is probably the case for some other songs too.

Like several other characters, Sara in the MML pitch bible was different from her show counterpart, being "a hipster like Thora Butch in Ghost World."

The song "A World Without Milo" is based on the song "Happy Together" by "The Turtles"

Almost every character, including creatures or minor one-offs had a name in the script. An example is "Pia," the name of the poodle Diogee falls in love with.

In regards to when Dakota talks about cutting through the Mesozoic in First Impressions and the fact it is illogical, Dan says this is likely just Dakota being Dakota (aka, it was a mistake), and not every such line should be taken serious.

In a deleted "Snow Way Out" line it was confirmed that the raccoon in Going the Extra Milo and Fungus Among Us is recurring raccoon.

Brick and Savannah were going to have a role in the crossover.

Story ideas from the MML pitch bible that never came to include a beach episode, a Friday the 13 episode, and an episode where Cavendish and Dakota try convincing Milo to take a self defense class leading to conflict with a hidden ninja gang.

For unspecified characters (probably multiple different sets) Pruett wrote in hugs that were cut by (mostly) Dan. In response, he says he "put 4 in so at least 1 stays."

S3 would have likely included: A third Block (yes, still voiced by Mark Hamill and a Block "family meeting"), Milo creating the universe, Dakota and Cavendish getting the promotion they wanted but being unsatisfied, Elliot cleverly being connected to the overarching plot, AU exploration (akin to pnf) including an episode where Dr Zone is real, and a conclusion to the Prof Time arc. The overarching plot would have been the "biggest yet."

credits to: danvillecheese for suggestions + encouragement, cheetochild989 for facts the fact about going to the zoo and a world without milo, the 2nd dimension on YouTube, my hamsterward friends, and of course all the talented people who worked on MML :3

#mml #milo murphy's law #behind the scenes #on fact 3 I worded it that way because there used to be an entire playlist for the JPN songs but I cant find it now...#on fact 16 I'm really wanting to know how that clicked #bonus fun fact: Dan referred to the mml fan base as “small but rabid” once circa 2021. oh we were #dwampyverse #this was fun

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miraculouslbcnreactions · 7 days

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Your post about ML trying to be a formula show and a serialized show at the same time reminded me of how one of my favorite shows ever, Moral Orel, actually managed to make the switch from one to the other, and I really kinda wish we could have seen ML do what Moral Orel was doing before it got prematurely cancelled two season early

Like, the first season of MO was a cut and dry formula show, but towards the end of S1 we're shown the cracks in the world, until the finale finally outright breaks the formula in the last third

Then S2 seems to try to get back into the formula, but it never quite gets back to normal, with more and more of the underlying serialized drama that the creators crafted around the formula bleeding into it, until with the finale (one of the most gut wrenching finales in tv history btw) the formula is pretty much forgotten outside of some flashbacks in the next season

S3 is just a fully serialized drama, and if it hadn't been cancelled prematurely the creators and staff had two more season planned where the focus would shift fully from one character/family being the main focus to the whole town being the sort of 'main character'

Like, during the year long hiatus after S1 that's kinda how I was envisioning ML to go after ending on Volpina and Origins

S1 gave us the fun formula and the basic set-up of the world (our leads and villain and their powers, the Love Square, the supporting characters, etc) before ending on hints of a deeper story hidden behind the formula show we've been presented, but we all know how that went in ML

This is honestly where I thought Miraculous was going at the tail end of season one/start of season two. It's incredibly common for kids' shows to start off without a strong plot for their first season or even just first half-season in order to play things safe (examples: Steven Universe and The Owl House). They don't want to commit to anything major until the show proves that it's going to do numbers, so the most you get are subtle hints of a larger plot. Then, once they feel like they have an audience, they can get more serious and do some actual plots because they know that they're probably going to be able to have multiple seasons.

Origins felt like the start of that transition from playing it safe to actually telling a story that required an active audience who would do their best to never miss an episode. Add in Volpina giving us a cliffhanger and, okay, time to go! But no. Instead we get the worst of both worlds where there's too many big serialized elements for the formula stuff to feel fun and too much adherence to the formula to let the big serialized elements function. Terrible choice. Zero starts. If the powers that be won't let you do a true serial show, then keep the serial content to stuff that works in the background. Don't pick big, dramatic stuff that needs room to breathe!

#ml writing critical #ml writing salt #thepeanutbutterwizard

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ectomoog · 9 months

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How to Get Your Friends into Doctor Who (2005) - A Guide

Ok I really like Doctor Who, and of course I like introducing people to it, but oh my god do you forget how randomly terrible and/or cringy and/or uncomfortably Moffat-esque some of the episodes are, *especially* when you're watching it with someone who has no idea what to expect.

SO I made a list of ten episodes that I think would be the best loose sequence of episodes for a causal introduction to the show...

But first, some requirements:

It has to be a one-off (NO TWO-PARTERS), low commitment, etc

It can't require watching previous OR following episodes to be enjoyable

It needs to actually be good

It needs to represent Doctor Who well

In a social setting where you're showing a group of people an episode, most of these would be fine. Watching consistently with one person however, loosely follow this order, and if your person decides at any point that they want to commit to actually watching the show, skip straight back to The End of The World and watch Series 1. Ok list time...

1. Rose (S1, E01)

I think Rose is the perfect episode of Doctor Who to start on. It's campy, it's fun and weird and it sets up almost everything you need to know for the Revival Era. You get the companion, the Doctor, regular Doctor Who tropes and themes, etc. Plus, if they can't get past the Mickey bin scene, this show probably isn't for them anyway.

2. Dalek (S1, E06)

Skipping a few episodes into Series 1, Dalek is a great way to get a feel for the format of the show, and also a great and intentional introduction to the Daleks. The Doctor and the companion turn up in a mysterious place and have to battle an alien force and really unlikeable one-off side characters, the works basically. It's a fun monster-movie of an episode.

3. Vincent and The Doctor (S5,E10)

Jumping a whole five series forward, Vincent and The Doctor is a notoriously heart-wrenching historical that I think is a classic (if a little indulgent) example of Doctor-meets-famous-historical-figure. It's nice to jump to a different Doctor and a different era of the show, to get a feel for its' diversity. Although there's a few moments relevant to the greater series plot, it's contained, very pretty, very sweet, and easy to understand.

4. Midnight (S4, E10)

Midnight just feels like an essential episode to be honest. A fantastic one-off sci-fi horror/thriller, with one of David Tennant's best performances, a great introduction to the 10th Doctor. It's a shame you don't get more Donna, but I think this one would be my go-to if someone asked for the best episode to watch stand-alone, just based on how genuinely great it is.

5. Heaven Sent (S9, E11)

Jumping to Series 9 with another critically-acclaimed episode, but also one that I think is an amazing introduction to the 12th Doctor. Heaven Sent is a little unconventional, and I'm not 100% sure it should be here, but it does give Capaldi a whole episode to just act his ass off, and he completely delivers. It's artsy, mysterious and dramatic, very much the high concept sci-fi style of Moffat's later scripts, so I think an appropriate watch.

6. The Voyage of The Damned (2007 Special)

If you're not in a festive mood, try The Lodger or Demons of the Punjab instead

The Christmas episodes are too iconic not to show, and as far as Christmassy vibes, celebrity cameos and whimsical concepts go, this one is a fun one. This is David Tennant in his prime, with Kylie Minogue, a massive budget and a romp of a script.

6. Blink (S3, E10)

I mean, duh, but genuinely I think Blink is just *too good* not to include. A tense, creepy, tightly-written piece of horror TV with twists and turns and drama, it's considered the best episode of Doctor Who for a reason, and along with Midnight is an amazing stand-alone episode. It's not super conventional, but all the timey-wimey stuff is very Doctor Who.

6. The Mummy on The Orient Express (S8, E08)

If you're a Tennant stan you could swap this out for The Planet of the Dead

This one is just a fun one really. The Mummy on The Orient Express is stylish and fun, with a cool concept and a little peek into a more complex Doctor-companion relationship. With a short explanation you can get the context pretty easily, and it's a good example of your typical episode anyway.

HOWEVER if you have time, there's a bunch of two-parters you should watch instead, like The Family of Blood, The Empty Child, Silence in the Library, even Extremis.

9. The Haunting of Villa Diodati (S12, E10)

Finally some 13th Doctor rep! This one has some of the strongest writing in the Chibnall era, and is a fun horror mystery that serves as a fun introduction to Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor. It has a little bit of series-wide arc, but that's okay.

10. The Church on Ruby Road (2023 Special 4)

If your person liked all those episodes but still doesn't want to watch 13 seasons of TV, just abandon ship and watch the 2023 Christmas special in preparation for Series 14 (or Season 1) in Spring 2024. The Church on Ruby Road is the beginning of the latest soft reboot of the show and has been explicitly created as a jumping on point for new fans. Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson absolutely shine in this special, it's fun and silly and in my opinion bodes very well for the next season of Doctor Who...

"in 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasn't important" - Bannakaffalatta

I hope that was a success! After all those episodes hopefully you either had a good time with whoever you were watching it with, or you've already moved onto Series 1! I'll be trying this out the best I can with my girlfriend this year, so look out, because I may be back with adjustments later...

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fireflysummers · 1 year

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Final Thoughts on GO S2

I'm probably gonna pull back on discussing S2, at least publicly, after this. I did actually like a lot of the season, but it's triggering some of my religious trauma and also the fandom is already stressing me out. So here, let's have some final thoughts.

First and foremost: I am not a Gaiman simp. I've read a decent amount of his work: comics, short stories, essays, and novels. Aside from Good Omens, I've liked Coraline and The Graveyard Book the best by far, whereas American Gods just. Did Not Connect with me, even though it's should have, given the stuff I tend to enjoy.

However. Regardless of whether I like a given work (or even like how he adapted it, a la parts of The Sandman TV series), he is a veteran writer who has proven that he does, actually, know how to write a story with consistent characters.

Beyond that, I do actually believe that he's trying to do right by Pratchett, and loves and respects the story and characters they created together. He's generally shown up as an ally to a variety of social causes, and directly and respectfully responds to fans on Tumblr. While no saint, I feel that there is cause to give the benefit of the doubt that things will resolve satisfyingly in S3, and that there is Intention about some of the things in S2.

This, of course, does not absolve it of being "bad," but even here I think we need to articulate better the different types of "bad" that people are reacting to. There seems to roughly be three camps here: 1) People who thought it was "bad" because of how it ended, with the breakup and a lot of unresolved plot threads; 2) People who thought it was "bad" because it struggled on a technical level with its set, lighting, directorial choices, editing, etc; 3) People who thought it was "bad" because they felt the characterization was significantly off and that the internal logic of the series had been violated.

With regards to Point One, the only solution is to Wait and See. Judgement should be reserved until the story is properly finished--easier said than done, especially considering the current media landscape, and the number of series or franchises that fail to live up to their promises.

Point Two isn't something I understand well enough to contribute meaningfully, except that I suspect the pandemic affected this aspect the most and am willing to give it a bit more mercy. That aside, I for the most part I don't find it bad so much as not as good as S1. Except for the parts with epilepsy warnings, surely there could've been a better way to do that.

Point Three... that's the stumbling block for me, and I find it interesting that most of the folks who struggle with this point in particular are long time fans of the book.

I trust that instinct.

There are two different directions to go from here. The first is the assumption that these problems are a result of ego, carelessness, or lack of skill from the showrunners/writers/director. It's cynical but not unjustified. The second is the belief that the breaks in lore or characterization were intentional, building towards a much grander conspiracy. Of course, even in this case I don't think it forgives the lack of signposting that would indicate that this is a choice rather than an accident. It just makes it feel clumsy and poorly constructed, a major risk on a show that hasn't had its third season confirmed.*

However, regardless, it still feels salvageable. I've enjoyed reading a lot of meta on all this, and I've pulled some things from others (particularly That Theory by @ariaste), but I don't really want to put forth a single, defined theory myself. Instead, here's some questions I've got, why those questions are important (to me, at least). Actual theorizing comes after, and anybody who snidely mentions Sherlock in the comments or tags is going to get auto-blocked. Like seriously, I'm aware that some stuff is a stretch, but it's fun??? To theorize????? And I'm here for me and my peace of mind rather than trying to argue a point.

*I have some suspicions here, particularly with Gaiman stating that the decision from Amazon would come much faster than The Sandman's second season (which was four months). I don't know enough though to say if that's actually significant.

Questions

Who the fuck is telling this story?

This is the most important piece, in my opinion. There's this assumption when reading books (or research papers, newspapers, etc...) that the narrator who is writing the words is a non-presence, Neutral and objective. That's not the case, and an important part of literature critique is figuring out who the narrator is, and what their goals are. Oftentimes, the narrator and the author are the same person, but with Pratchett's work, particularly on Good Omens and Discworld, the Narrator was its own unique character.

This is why people struggle adapting Discworld to live action--that medium requires a Reason for having a Narrator, and especially in the age of method acting that's often considered immersion-breaking. Good Omens worked so well because they not only kept the Narrator, but they made Her God.

This added some really interesting new dimensions, such as the scene where Crowley speaks to God about his fall and the destruction of humanity. He doesn't receive an answer, but we're watching from God's perspective, so we as the audience know that She's listening.

Another advantage of making God the Narrator is that it justifies all the goofy little asides we get into the lives of minor characters (i.e. Leslie the Mailman), without losing focus. It helps the world feel like it’s full of people, rather than characters and plot contrivances, and the theme that individual people and their choices are important. The Narrator is such a central character of Good Omens that without it, the story struggles to stay focused.

It also highlights a key difference in the writing styles of the two authors. Pratchett’s work tends to introduce four or five totally unique plot threads that feel completely disjointed until the last act (if not even later), when it turns into a Chekhov’s Firing Squad. Plot twists around secret identities and backstabbing and schemes are relatively rare, as the omniscient Narrator doesn’t lie about the intentions of people or their actions.

Gaiman’s writing is typically not like that, to my knowledge. He buries characters in misdirection and hints, and you never know the true identity or motives until all the chips are down. It’s a perfectly valid way to approach storytelling, but it makes it jarring to see it in S2. The lack of a Narrator is a huge reason why S2 doesn’t feel like Good Omens to some folks.

My gut feeling is that the decision to shift from the original Narrator was highly intentional. It helps to obscure the thoughts and intentions of people, and it also muddles the insights that we’re supposed to take away. (I would have loved hearing God monologue about what’s going on in Jim’s head. I think it’d do a lot to make him seem less.... obnoxiously stupid.)

More than that, it brings up a reasonable potential plot point of: Where did God go? Why isn’t She present in the story? Even in her early appearance in the Job flashback, she doesn’t sound like the narrator for last season. After the first part of her speech (which Gabriel later quotes), her tone turns casual and condescending, which might line up with her being a bit of an asshole, it doesn’t line up with the whole “dealer of a mysterious card game who is always smiling”).

Also, I don’t think it’s safe to assume that nobody is telling the story either. Just because they’re not making their presence known doesn’t mean they aren’t there, and in a story like Good Omens, that’s concerning.

Wait, where's Satan?

Another person I saw while scrolling the tags pointed out that Satan is nowhere to be seen this season. He's really only mentioned in reference to a bet God made in Job, but then Crowley is the one on the ground causing mischief. There's no Hail Satan among demons (like Hastur and Ligur did at the start of S1).

That's might be because the writers didn't want us to think it was important (a la Hastur), but that feels off. Given that Satan speaks directly through the radio to Crowley in S1, complimenting him on his work, it's safe to say that he was at least aware of and involved in the goings-on in Hell. The fact that he wasn't even an worry for Beelzebub in abandoning their post? Feels weird.

(Also if you know where that post is, I'll happy credit + link)

What is Maggie?

Look, I love cute lesbians in love as much as the next queer, but I don't like Maggie. I don’t think she’s a person. Contextually, she’s a plot device, but I agree with That Essay that she might be an actual Plot Device.

Her characterization is simple and relatively shallow—a bit of an airhead, ray of sunshine that’s supposed to remind you of Aziraphale. When she describes her past to Nina, it’s almost robotic (also, her story implies it was Mr. Fell who first rented to her ancestor, not Mr. Fell’s great-grandfather like Nina implied). Her emotions are over-dramatic and seem to be turned on and off at random (scenes with her crying to Aziraphale about her woes had my “manipulator” senses going off for some reason).

When asked about a song, she not only IDs the song, its singer, and its year, but how and on what it was distributed. (Honestly thought this would’ve been something interesting, because she’s been pretty ditzy so far, it’d be interesting if she had like... an insane memory for music history.) And then she’s the one that sets Aziraphale on his little investigation by giving him the transformed records, while also planting the seed about her love troubles with Nina. Later, her advice to Crowley is... not awful, but feels insincere and a bit too forward, given her own self-proclaimed lack of relationship experience.

I don’t know what she is (a demon, hastur with amnesia in disguise, a literal plot device inserted by the current storyteller, etc...), but there’s something not right with her.

(Also the joke of “who listens to records anymore, it’s so old fashioned” just doesn’t land, lots of people buy records, and I’m saying this as somebody who has worked at a record store before.)

What's going on with Aziraphale?

There’s something Off about Aziraphale, and it’s not his choices at the end of the season. That makes total sense if you read him as somebody with severe religious trauma getting dragged back into the abusive system because other people need him and he’s been promised the ability to change things.

But I do think something is happening to his memory. Nearly all the flashbacks are from Aziraphale’s point of view and retelling, which means that they’re less reliable than God’s version of events in the previous season. Many of them don’t make logistical sense (post-church scene in 1941), depict Crowley as meaner or more sinister than we know he is, or frame events... weirdly. The scene with him trying food for the first time feels Really Bad, especially when the series has previously established that he’s a) prim and proper and b) his interest in food is one of the beautiful things that connect him to humanity, not some kind of gluttonous sin. Also he turns down alcohol.

Their meet-cute at the start of the universe also doesn’t line up with their reactions to each other in Eden, or the fact that knowing each other Before has never come up or been hinted at anywhere ever. I don’t know what’s causing this to happen, only that Aziraphale repeatedly looks pensive when coming out of flashbacks, and Crowley is never there afterwards to corroborate said memories.

His actions also seem pretty inconsistent with what we know of him—i.e. I refuse to believe he would ever mistreat his books, even if they’re just old encyclopedias. Also, he feels a bit too...forceful in trying to get Nina and Maggie to fall in love? I mean, he didn’t exert that much direct influence on even Warlock, when he was actively hoping that the boy would turn out angelic rather than neutral.

I don’t think this removes his agency in that last decision, so much as explains how he was in such a vulnerable place at all. He still needs to apologize and fix things, because he messed up, and even if he hadn’t he still seriously hurt Crowley.

What's going on with Crowley?

There’s something Off about Crowley. The most obvious thing, of course, is his memories. At multiple points in the present day, characters state that they remember him or have met him before, only to be met with confusion. This is especially concerning given that he has a nigh photographic memory for faces (something mentioned in the book when he immediately IDs Mary Loquacious, 11 years after a 30 second conversation).

Overall, he seems to be better known by other supernatural entities this season, in ways that often tie him back to his angelic identity (i.e. saying they fought together in the war, Aziraphale stating he knew the angel he used to be, etc...). This doesn’t feel right, because S1 we see that Hell is largely apathetic towards his schemes, and definitely does not defer to him at any point in any capacity.

Then there’s the issue of his power level. It’s always been speculated that Crowley was a powerful angel prior to falling, when he mentions in S1 his involvement with star making, his seemingly unique ability to freeze time, and creating a pocket universe for Adam before the confrontation with Satan. He also has a tendency of breathing life into inanimate objects, like his plants or car. He also has the regular demonic skillset: miracles that can adjust physical appearance; the ability to change inanimate objects (like paintball guns into real guns); the ability to manifest clothing and similar items; and summon hellfire to his fingertips. This, plus the way he monologues to God with a degree of familiarity rather than reverence seems to indicate that he was Somebody Powerful and Important Before.

But in S2, his skills are significantly expanded upon. The miracle he and Aziraphale summon sets off alarms in heaven and hell, and it’s powerful enough to mask Gabriel from the Archangels. He summons a miniature sun to rain fire on Job, which is way bigger and flashier than anything we’ve seen him summon in S1. (If he needs fire, he alters the course of a dropping bomb, without creating one himself.)

Yet he’s able to cloak his presence so well he goes wholly unnoticed in heaven, or in front of heavenly agents on earth (i.e. the Job flashback). Muriel can’t clock him as a demon, or even as another supernatural being, despite their auras usually being pretty significant, such Aziraphale immediately sensing the archangels when they arrive. He’s able to interfere with files that Muriel claimed required clearance (although I feel like that might just be a snark about Obeying Without Thinking? I would really need a Narrator to know.)

I might be misremembering, but I don’t think we’ve seen angels or demons transmogrify living beings before either. In the book, Crowley brings Aziraphale’s dove back to life after the failed magic show, and occasionally sinks ducks, but he doesn’t alter them? Not even Adam demonstrates that skill in S1. But he has no trouble turning Job’s children into lizards, however temporarily. Boy that would’ve been convenient during the flood. Or when the guard stopped then from getting to the air strip.

I don’t have any real issues with his characterization in the present day parts of S2, but there’s something weird happening with Crowley.

Where's all the people?

I really like a lot of the new characters, but how were there only like, 2.5 new humans named in the present day? Flashbacks don’t count bc the humans are all dead and can’t affect the story.

As much as I like Nina, she and Maggie don’t drive the story beyond being an occasional and awkwardly inserted plot contrivance? Both are actively robbed of their agency at several points, forced into situations that they could not have avoided or escaped. I’m not really sure what growth they’re expected to experience other than deciding not to date each other after everything. I literally can’t tell you anything about Nina other than that she remembers her regular’s orders, runs a coffee shop, and has a textbook abusive partner we never see. The only meaningful interactions they have are between those two, or in conversation with Aziraphale and Crowley.

Compare that to S1, where Anathema gets hit by Aziraphale and Crowley, but her primary relationships are with Newt, Adam, and Agnes Nutter (I think that counts as a relationship). We know that she’s got a wealthy family back in Puerto Rico, and that she was literally raised to save the world, and that she isn’t happy under all that pressure. Newt on the other hand is connected to not just Anathema, but Shadwell and Madame Tracy. He never even directly interacts with Aziraphale and Crowley. We know about his hobbies, his struggle to hold down a job, and his almost supernatural ability to destroy any electronics he touches. I don’t necessarily like how their relationship came together, but they were both very, very well fleshed out characters with unique backstories and goals. They weren’t just... waiting around to give Aziraphale and Crowley a new questline.

And while there’s no requirement to include a large cast of human characters that are exerting influence over the story, the lack of it is another aspect that makes this season feel not like Good Omens.

Also, it's just. Really weird to me that the events of S1 aren't really referenced at all? Like, Adam isn't mentioned, nor is Warlock. I don't expect them to keep track of the humans they met on the airfield for 20 minutes, but none of it is ever specifically referenced as far as I can tell, beyond Crowley threatening Gabriel. Like, I get that it's been a few years, but the pair caused a big enough disturbance that you'd expect some kind of ripples in their supernatural communities.

Promised by the Narrative (Obvious Chekhov's guns that I will be legitimately upset over if they do not go off)

A sincere apology from Aziraphale to Crowley that doesn't come with the expectation that Crowley will come back to him, but because he deserves an apology, even if the choices Aziraphale made were done with good intentions. Aziraphale does not expect forgiveness, and is shocked when Crowley grants it without hesitation.

A clear declaration of love from Aziraphale, which can't be rationalized away by either of them.

An "I'm Sorry" dance between Aziraphale and Crowley, but with greater sincerity and gravity. The most important piece is that they end up dancing together, which signifies a mutual apology and dedication to come together.

Since kissing is on the table, I expect an actual joyful, mutual kiss between these two assholes.

A shared cottage in South Downs.

Predictions/Theories (just some fun thoughts I've had)

When Adam declared that Satan was not his father, he didn't make himself not the antichrist, but accidentally crowned his human dad the King of Hell. Nobody knows this, because Adam doesn't have a good measure for "normal" supernatural situations, and Mr. Young because he's so "normal" that he explains away all the magical bullshit that's started going down.

When Adam declared that Satan was not his father, he erased Satan altogether. However, this left a vacuum in both power and reality. The defection of both Gabriel and Beelzebub only widens that crack. In an attempt to Fix things, reality is warping the story. Crowley has become leagues more powerful between S1 and S2, as the narrative is trying to force him into the role of his previous boss. Aziraphale is unknowingly being pulled into a similar version on the Other Side, perhaps to replace Gabriel or perhaps to replace God herself, who has been fairly absent in all this. The alterations to their memories or past have come about to keep the narrative running smoothly.

When the Metatron asks Nina whether anybody has ever asked for death, he was actually referring to Death, the sole remaining rider of the apocalypse.

If Maggie is indeed a Plot Device, it would be a fascinating exploration of Free Will to see her become aware of this (cue existential crisis), and then fall in love with Nina on her own terms, rather than because she was written that way.

Hastur will be back. Somehow.

The reason why S2 focuses so much on the supernatural characters is because S3 will be about how the events in S1 have changed the political landscape of heaven and hell. Angels are questioning their roles, demons are yearning for something more. It's scaring upper administration, and then the two most reliable folks in employment run away to alpha centauri. Recruiting Aziraphale and getting him back in line prevents him from becoming a martyr, control the range of his influence. The series reasserts its theme of choice and agency by highlighting that Aziraphale and Crowley aren't that special, they've just had the chance to live and grow, and that the others have free will too, if they want it.

The reason why they wanted to separate Aziraphale and Crowley, is not to get Aziraphale on his own, but to get Crowley on his own. He literally stopped time and made a pocket universe in front of Satan last season. He's powerful and dangerous and somebody wants to see that reigned in.

Wishlist (stuff I desperately want to see)

Crowley getting an audience with God and an opportunity to ask his questions, only to refuse to do so because he's found his own Answers and he no longer needs hers

Aziraphale and Crowley growing more into their book incarnations. Aziraphale becomes confident in his sense of morality, which he developed the hard way through millennia on earth besides humanity. He slowly learns what it means to be loved, unconditionally, but also is better at asserting and maintaining his boundaries. Crowley, still anxious and unwinding, works through his fear of abandonment, providing him opportunities to be kind and gentle and nurturing--all traits that he's aggressively hid since being a demon.

Hand holding. I know that Gaiman was referring to Ineffable Bureaucracy, but I still feel like we'd benefit from meaningful hand holding, especially since that got cut from the adaptation of the book.

Shifted focus away from the supernatural shenanigans, and back onto the humans that actually drive the story.

Cameos from S1 characters (if not a more substantial appearance).

The Four Other Riders of the Apocalypse.

Cursed Thoughts (why I shouldn't be allowed a social platform)

Ineffable Bureaucracy turns up in season 3 because Beelzebub got Gabriel pregnant somehow.

#good omens #good omens spoilers #good omens season 2 #good omens s2 #good omens meta #good omens 2 spoilers #good omens 2 theory #good omens 2 analysis #long post #text

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lunar-years · 1 month

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https://deadline.com/2024/08/ted-lasso-season-4-deal-near-brett-goldstein-hannah-waddingham-1236049653/ LOOK WHAT YOU DID /J

Article here

PHEW. Okay. I kind of cursed us I think? I’m sorry everyone. :(

now that i've had a few hours to soak this news in uhhhh. I have thoughts! As many of you know, I flip flop all the time on whether i actually *want* more Ted Lasso, but now that it's far closer to happening and we're hearing a bit more about what it might it entail, I'm unfortunately kind of landing firmly back in the "god no keep that away from me" camp. Reasons being:

The show kind of doomed itself when it made s3 because at the beginning of that season I would have SWORN there was going to be a s4, and by the end i was convinced there was absolutely never going to be a s4. They had sooooo many plots going on, and instead of doing the reasonable thing and adjusting the original vision of the show to expand the vast amount of story they'd ended up with for s3 into two enjoyable and well-paced seasons, they decided to instead squeeze it into one very mid, terribly paced season. so now s4 isn't going to make much sense because the show already HAD an ending (even if it was a subpar one)

why on EARTH couldn't they have decided to move ahead with this before everyone's contracts expired 😭 wtf wtf!!!!! this is an absolutely wretched cursed timeline. if i remember correctly everyone was under contract for 4 seasons up until May this year. and they're going to turn around and announce a s4 in AUGUST??? hello???

As the article mentioned, and expanding on point #2, it is quite likely several og cast regulars are no longer available or only available in a guest star capacity. this sucks. a show that's missing some of the characters is literally FARRRR worse to me then a show that was given an ending and is now over forever. boo. if you're not giving me back jamie tartt again like literally pack it up boys. why are we doing this.

the *only* cast member I could understand (and perhaps even endorse) being lowered from series regular to guest star capacity would be Jason, and that's mostly because I think it's very hard to rectify Ted being a part of the afc richmond / London scene again after they JUST concluded his series-long arc by having him return home very poignantly to his son in Kansas. Like...huh? He just changes his mind and goes back??? lmao*

*The article is under the impression Jason WILL be returning and whilst that confuses me i AM willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt on writing a creative, fun way of making that possible. I am willing to trust them and let them sell me on how Ted Lasso can continue on! but going back to point 3, it's unfortunately all irrelevant to me if other characters are missing. sorry but. no.

as much as i did/do love ted lasso for a vast number of characters, i am too emotionally attached to my favs to where i literally do not think i would enjoy the show anymore if any of them were missing. A roy and keeley plot without jamie visibly in their lives sucks 2 me. A roy plot without jamie OR keeley (because frankly i'm hesitant about the potential of juno returning either) also sucks 2 me. i love the characters together and considering where we left them in s3, it doesn't excite me at all to think about their futures without each other. i'm not asking for rjk to be canon, even, im just asking for them to all be like. IN IT. At the end of the day, the show I love, I love because they were in it.

based on the current specualations...if everyone is in it (with or without ted) i will be tuned in but i feel nervous about it. if phil's really not returning like certain reports are saying, i'm not watching. BUT i will follow along via post episode tumblr gif sets where i can see any of the fun lighthearted roy stuff and keeley stuff and team stuff and ignore the rest of whatever the fucks happening. i will peacefully continue to live on (and contribute to) Ted Lasso Ao3 island.

#ted lasso #asks #ted lasso s4 #jamie tartt #thoughtsssss

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biolizardboils · 8 months

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so heads up! im popping a LOT of Prime Season 3 posts into the queue--they'll start coming out one week from now, on January 22nd! if you can see this post and haven't watched it yet, here's some tags to block: #prime spoilers, #sonic prime spoilers, #sonic prime s3 spoilers, #sonic prime season 3 spoilers.

got all that? great! here's my final unorganized little rambles about the show:

shoutout to Rusty Rose's Birdie, who only appears in the very first and very last eps for some reason 😭 her speech about it not being her power source came outta nowhere too, but i loved the message behind it

when everyone arrives at the Grim, just before the ep ends, Nine starts breathing heavily and it. instantly reminded me of Movie!Tails when the bar was calling them freaks. fuck. its a nice reminder of where Nine's coming from

speaking of Nine his poses getting more unhinged over time!! hell yeah

i love that the final fight(s) felt like a kid smashing 3 different Lego sets together, real Robot Pirate Island shit

i laughed a little too hard when the Grim's dome started closing in cus Nine's citadel-thing already reminded me of a thing that happened in Fortnite once, but hell naw they had to add The Storm too sdfghj

METAL BIG DESTROYED ME LJKHGFDV im SO glad i wasnt spoiled about it!!! a while in i started finding it creepy instead of funny, which is an added bonus

i was spoiled about the Advance flashback and its clashing sprites though. the utter whiplash of seeing that without warning mightve made me choke on my hot cheeto puffs. someone's already remade it btw, check it out

i fistpumped at the small reprise of "me beauty" gfhjk ill miss you so much Dread

we're four years into the 2020's and Sonic has nearly died an agonizingly slow death 3 times in 3 different continuities! and dare i say it was delicious every time >:)

unless Word of God says otherwise I'm gonna assume that the giant shadow at the end was The Return Of Metal Big lpoihgfds

So... Twitter, huh? My spoiler filters there had some leaks, and I saw some discussion out of context that... actually made me kinda scared to finish the show. But then I did, and had fun with it just like the other two seasons, and I remembered that Twitter gets high-strung about things that don't matter so much, and that giving it sway over how much I enjoy things is silly lol.

Yes, I think the last season could've been paced differently so it wasn't 5 episodes of the same Final Boss Fight. Yes, I think the writing switches jarringly between gearing for a young new audience and for a seasoned old one. Yes, I think the 2D flashbacks look and move worse than what fans constantly make for free. Yes, I think the final episode doesn't do nearly as much housekeeping as it should (does the Shatterverse still exist or not??). Yes, I think declaring the show is canon to the games or whatever they said probably wasn't the best idea. And yes, I think Black Rose should've had a shoulder-parrot!Birdie to match the other Amys. All valid critiques! All sensible things to think when you've been around the Sonic bush!

But I swear to god, people on Twitter act like these things spoil the whole package. Where's the nuance? Why does every opinion there become an absolute worth tearing others down for? Is it the character limit? I bet it's the character limit.

There's so much I love about this show that were infeasible for the Sonic brand just 3-4 years ago. Externalizing the characters' facets to explore them in-depth. Said exploration spanning multiple episodes instead of being one-and-done. The sheer amount of genuine Sonadow food (and I don't actively do shipping, so me adding it here should hold a lot of weight). The snappy, playful, yet blistering fight scenes that, dare I say, feel like a successful TV-budget Spider-Verse. It was all so much fun!

But I guess stuff like Green Hill being the gang's "home" is a big deal-breaker?? Like?? I thought that was silly too, but not worth ratio'ing people with Mickey Mouse Clubhouse over? Get well soon, I guess??

Rambling over, shout-out to the entire country of Canada for giving me the most fun I've had with a Sonic show since X! I'm gonna go figure out how to address all this as The End lol

#sonic prime #sonic the hedgehog #sonic prime season 3 #sonic prime s3 #prime spoilers #sonic prime spoilers #sonic prime s3 spoilers #sonic prime season 3 spoilers #sth #prime #me talking #boils watches #long

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chainofclovers · 1 year

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Ted Lasso 3x5 Thoughts

(Hello hello last week was so bleak; turns out I was pretty significantly ill and as soon as my doc and I got things figured out and I got on antibiotics, I became a human being capable of thinking consecutive thoughts and enjoying the things I like.)

One of the things I like is TV show Ted Lasso. I think this was my favorite episode of the season. Or at least it was the episode that, at the end of watching, gave me the most concrete I love this show and I love the pacing and I love the story being told and I love these characters feelings I’ve had all season…and I’ve basically felt that way on some level after every s3 ep (with the exception of 3x4, which left me very unsettled, but also, I was very sick).

Rebecca:

I am so…proud of her?!

Her panic when she didn’t know who to put as her Emergency Contact broke my heart. She’s so aware of the things she’s lacking right now, even as she does have people she loves.

I absolutely love that Shite in Nining Armor was stupid John Wingsnight’s stupid fiancee’s slip of the tongue. I love that Rebecca had no chill in asking her to confirm what she said. I love that John was wearing his idiotic double-Manchester scarf, and I love that in the later scenes in the episode Rebecca was also wearing an asymmetrical scarf with a color gradient.

I absolutely loved every single thing about her choice to see a fertility doctor. Right after the ep ended, my wife said that she thinks that in the end, as Rebecca looks back on her life, she will be comforted by the fact that she tried, that she sought the information, that she admitted to herself that there was something she really wanted and chose to go after the information she needed to find out if it was possible. I agree completely. Also Hannah Waddingham played every moment with that phone call in her office so, so perfectly. Her face always says a million things.

Keeley:

(I already understood that Keeley was bi but) Keeley is bi! Jack is bi! They hit it off and are having fun!

I think the moment when they’re drinking vodka and Keeley says she used to be a happy person is one of Juno Temple’s absolute best acting moments in this entire series, and I say that as someone who generally absolutely adores the choices she makes as Keeley.

The complexity of where she is in her life warms my heart so much. She’s learning a million new things every day. She’s attracted to Jack and feels a connection that she wants to explore. She’s still hurting over Roy and is able to admit that.

It really broke my heart that she didn’t register that Rebecca was calling her, even though I completely understood why she didn’t. If I was in that situation, my phone would be the last thing on my mind. But I love that Rebecca’s first call was to Keeley, and her not picking up is very much in conversation with Rebecca’s lack of obvious Emergency Contact, I think. (Keeley would be a great Emergency Contact! It was just one phone call! But it hurts! Is it weird that I keep capitalizing Emergency Contact?)

I have mixed feelings about how all the Shandy stuff went down. I would have preferred it if Shandy had continued to be a more nuanced character in terms of her potential and her skills. Maybe we haven’t seen the last of her? I think that based on what happened, Keeley was right to let her go, but everything Shandy had to say and do in the first few eps of the season felt like there was a lot of depth behind it, and since she’s a person of color in a vastly majority white office environment it doesn’t really hit quite right that her firing felt primarily like a lesson Keeley needed to learn. I did really love her bridge-burning goodbye speech, though. Who wouldn’t want to yell “fascist fucks” in an awkward corporate setting?! Team Shandy.

Nate:

Nate practicing with his mom: adorable.

Nate being really really into Taste of Athens in Tooting: stressful.

Nate beautifully articulating why it’s important to him and refusing to go along with Anastasia’s ridicule of the place: lovely.

Beard and Roy (and a little Trent) and Ted and Coaching:

I love how much of a duo Beard and Roy are this season, and how fiercely Beard was ready to go to Kansas even while there were so many things happening with the team. That was a genuine act of family right there! And Roy got in on the action too, with his horrifying assault fantasy! The weird love between all these men sends my heart aflutter!

I’m also endlessly fascinated with Ted once again having the beginnings of a panic attack in very close physical proximity to his fellow coaches. I’m into Trent’s gay Let the Good Times Roll mug.

One of my favorite things about last week’s episode was Ted’s decision not to drink before the call with Michelle; it was really important that he didn’t numb himself before saying the things he needed to say. And for weirdly similar reasons, I kinda like that he was defaulting to pouring some water while the call with Michelle connected, then he switched to whiskey at the mention of Jake having taken Henry to the park. Whenever Ted is alone, the choices and things happening physically (his kitchen looked quite neat in that scene, and the open peanut butter wasn’t fighting for counter space with other items) tell so much of the story, and I’ve continued to love how that storytelling is handled.

Ted had a good parenting moment with Henry! His father’s lesson about anger transferred to Ted and then to Henry! Ted’s dad never met his grandson, but he helped him today! (Also, the absolute CRINGE image of Henry performing an apology rap…the incredibly dorky apple doesn’t fall far from the incredibly dorky tree.) It’s not lost on me that after this major parenting win, then a successful staving off of the panic attack by reminding himself that Henry is okay, it only takes a tiny bit of prodding from his team to return to finer coaching form. I love that he rips the sign further. I have been curious about whether or not he’d talk to the team about Nate, but so much time passed between 3x4 and 3x5 that maybe we’ll never know about that. But I love that in the 7 weeks between episodes, the sign stayed up in its ripped state, and I love that he addresses belief more concretely than he’s ever done precisely by taking the concrete symbol out of the equation.

Higgins

Higgins brought the problems with the coaching staff to Rebecca! He continues to be one of the bravest people on this show.

I love how stricken Rebecca looked when he got the words out, too. Her desk was positively strewn with biscuit crumbs.

And he was smart about psychics and said the thing that I really hoped would be the whole point of Tish, in terms of this being an opportunity for Rebecca to see some things more clearly.

Rebecca and Ted:

OK, my brain is full of all the stuff I just talked about, but my brain is mostly full of that hallway scene. Yeah.

If it mattered less, I could………………[you know how this one goes]

#ted lasso #ted lasso 3x5 #ted lasso s3 spoilers #cw: infertility #meta by me #ted lasso meta #hot dork club

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markantonys · 1 year

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wait, since they namedropped graendal this season, what if SHE'S the forsaken in caemlyn controlling morgase during s3???? (apologies if this has already been suggested, but i don't think i've seen it.) now, namedropping a character doesn't necessarily mean we will see them in the very next season, buuuuut of the other 4 s2 namedrops, 2 (moghedien & gawyn) will 100% be in s3. (cadsuane & taim, eh, i won't hold my breath on them appearing in s3 but it's not impossible.)

i don't know, i just find it Very Interesting that they chose to specifically name graendal, when they didn't have to include the Forsaken Listing line at all or could've rewritten it any number of ways to not name graendal. for a little while my theory has been that, for practicality reasons, they might want to avoid naming specific forsaken until they're at a place where they feel confident they will have time to include that forsaken in the show, since they have to always be in a position to be able to wrap the story up in fewer seasons than planned. so in keeping with that, maybe it's not unreasonable to imagine we may be seeing graendal (and in a prominent role, as i doubt they'd cast a forsaken just to show up to 1 forsaken zoom call scene and then pray the actor can return for more in a few years) sooner than we think?

now, let's think about whether graendal replacing rahvin in that story role would work.

short-term: yes, 100%. she has a similar personality type/modus operandi of loving luxury and preferring to Compel people from the shadows, so i can easily see her setting herself up comfortably in a palace and making a queen her puppet. it also perfectly positions her to murder asmodean in caemlyn. look, i respect stories leaving questions unsolved, but i feel like the show would rather just show Us Viewers who killed him so we can move on, instead of making it a deliberate Unsolved Murder and distracting us into wasting all our time speculating about it & not focusing on other things that are actually important to the story.

as for long term, i'm still mulling over whether it would work. off the top of my head i've got a few scenarios:

A) graendal is balefired by rand in caemlyn just like rahvin is, from which fight rand learns that balefire can permanently kill forsaken.

downside: her future activities in the books would be cut or given to someone else

B) graendal escapes rand in caemlyn and proceeds to carry out her future book activities. rand learns that balefire can permanently kill forsaken from his fight with sammael instead.

downside: that's my emotional support "rand goes crazy with grief over aviendha's and mat's deaths while protecting elayne's home" avimatrandlayne moment, your honor!

also, mat might need to stay with rand longer than he should in order to be present for the sammael fight for Dying And Living Again purposes (so to me, this is actually an upside djfkg but i RELUCTANTLY acknowledge it miiiight be tricky to get mat over to his seanchan storyline if he's with rand this late into the series - tho ofc they could always shuffle stuff around to make the sammael fight happen pre-ebou dar or even pre-dumai's wells)

C) a scenario i don't think is likely but is fun to imagine nonetheless: ELAYNE is the one who ousts graendal from caemlyn, whether killing her permanently or only temporarily, and whether when elayne first arrives in caemlyn (so taking over rand's story beat) or at the end of her succession and/or black ajah hunting arcs (so adding graendal into one or both of those arcs).

downside: it would stray pretty far from book storylines with, perhaps, no real gain

but, upside: elayne would get a Forsaken Archrival of her very own!

all in all, maybe they really aren't planning to introduce graendal until much later & in her book storyline and i'm totally overthinking the namedrop, but graendal in caemlyn is interesting to ponder!

#wot #wot on prime #the wheel of time #wot book spoilers #graendal

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liesmyth · 4 months

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do you see any RJK / artashipatrick parallels? ive been thinking about it a lot lately and wanted to get ur viewpoint

hi hi hi! I actually saw this opinion a couple of times in Ted Lasso fandom, but personally I don't share it. I AM very curious about your reasoning for it because I love looking at ships from different angles and seeing what people take from them.

my tldr is that I don't think RKJ has anything in common with the Challengers trio, beyond the fact that they're about two men ostensively fighting over a girl while also engaging in the kind of simmering homoeroticism that permeates elite men's sport. (this Marylin Frie quote says it better) I get why this can seem a parallel by itself but, to me, it's just a function of both ships being set in a Sports Media canon. When it comes to characters and their dynamics, these ships are built very differently IMO.

relative to each other:

the Challengers trio all start out as peers, both in age and in relative success level of their careers. They're all finalists in the Junior US Open when they meet. RKJ as a dynamic is absolutely hierarchical in comparison: you have Roy being a Legacy kind of Big Name in the sport, Jamie as the talented up-and-comer who idolised him growing up, and while he has promise, there's non guarantee he can come even close to the kind of career Roy's implied to have had. And then there's Keeley, who's absolutely an outsider in their world, and on a systemic level is much lower down the pecking order. I think Ted Lasso, especially in S1 and S2 does a great job giving an overview of, like, how transactional footballers/wags relationships inherently ARE, even to people who aren't already familiar with the context — not just the financial asymmetry and stark difference in career and life prospects but just, like. She's the girl peeking into the changing room and saying, Hi Boys. Jamie makes a joke about oogling her ass because they are both in on the joke that they fulfil a very specific stereotypical relationship dynamic.

Even if on a personal level both Roy and Jamie really respect and admire Keeley, she Does Not Belong in their hyperfocused sport-as-sexually-charged-rivarly world. Art and Patrick want to fuck Tashi first and foremost because she's a tennis phenomenon, they value her athletic abilities and coaching insight. That's a whole completely different dynamic from what's going on between RKJ. Compare Art and Patrick complimenting Tashi's performance at the US Open to Roy and Jamie "fighting over her" in 3x12 where it's all about who she likes more. As someone who actually liked the bar fight because I think it shows a very realistic ugly side to these characters (*) it's just. two men fighting over a girl. vs two athletes being so impressed by someone who is a girl and also a star athlete in her own right.

(*) asterisk because I absolutely loathed so many writing choices in S3, like, even if I like some seeds of plots I hate how they were executed. Oh my god typing this out is making me want to completely AU S3 of TL. anyway; I have beef with the pacing and stuff around that scene but I like the existence of the scene itself.

Keeley and Tashi couldn't be more different

Tashi is just. Her personality is most similar to Roy's, imo. She lives and breathes tennis. She needs to be around that world to live; she struggles to fill the void left with coaching (and living vicariously through Art to an extent). Keeley, meanwhile, makes fun of Roy feeling like the world is ending when he finally admits to himself that he can't go on any longer. Mind, I think that lighthearted "it's not the end of the world" attitude was precisely what Roy needed to hear at that point, because he takes himself too seriously and needed someone to tell him that he can live without football, actually — but the fact that Keeley just Doesn't Get It on a fundamental level, again, marks her as an outsider to the kind of all-encompassing elite athlete attitude Roy and Jamie share. She doesn't even like football! She's occasionally flighty (good for her). She's turning 30 and doesn't know where her life is going (SO valid). She's a completely different personality than the kind of single-minded all-or-nothing attitude you NEED to make it as a pro athlete. Again: her dynamic with the two men who are into her couldn't be any different than Art/Tashi/Patrick, BECAUSE she's a completely different personality. If she was in Challengers, she'd be one of the normie Stamford kids Patrick and Tashi make fun of.

IDK. I think any similarity between Tashi and Keeley starts and ends at "they're both women". Maybe I'm being uncharitable here! I'm someone who thinks that Keeley's portrayal in fanon flattens her a bit (in the way female characters in the periphery of a m/m ship are often put on a pedestal and shoved off the way) so I'm definitely bringing some of my own baggage here; that's why I'd love to know what parallels others see. But I think she and Tashi have very different neuroses. THAT SAID. If I was writing a crossover Ted Lasso / Challengers fic, I really think Tashi/Keeley would be my ship of choice

#Anonymous #ask #lassoposting #rjk #disclaimer this is. as always. TO ME etc etc

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hrghhhhhhhhh · 7 months

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i was heavily into cryptage until the season 20 launch and tae liking elliott felt really natural to me. now im struggling hard even imagining it knowing that hes canonically in love and its not elliott. suddenly his annoyed behavior just feels annoyed, no longer flustered, and the relationship he has with elliott doesnt feel light-hearted anymore just sorta hostile idk the whole confirmation of his romantic interest in someone else erased my perception that was built on the s3 trailer and their (what i interpreted as) flirting. i cant seem to do anything about it, it's just gone it's all gone and respawn visibly disliking cryptage makes me feel guilty it feels like we're not supposed to ship it in the first place

IM SO SORRY FOR THIS ACCIDENTAL DISSERTATION:

tldr: i fully understand you, however, putting too much stock in canon / wishing your ship become canon causes a lot of stress. Canon is not the end all be all, and frankly i think canon kills my interest in ships the fastest. Using canon to make stuff you actually like will always be more fun and better for mental health!!! <3

OKay . so . i COMPLETELY understand where you're coming from, I think of all games with such a robust cast, this one has so many potentials. S3 trailer ignited my love for them, and the way they navigated each other (from Cryp0 bending Mirage's arm back in self defense, to then Crypto saving him by pulling him off the train) I am so blessed to have my expectations Very early on be set, knowing that the early writers had absolutely no intent to make Mirage and Crypto romantic.

From that trailer i took really important things about their character, but i felt like i KNEW the intent, and the intent Never felt flirty or even romantic to me. I knew i could spin it that way, i knew i loved their dynamic when viewed through that heart shaped lens! But I never ever assumed that's where their stories led. and because if that i was never let down. I have no idea how to heal from the canon vs not canon stuff, it can feel like a betrayal, and i totally get the guilt. BUT canon and your personal interpretation dont have to match. Like at all. As long as, you know, noones being a total asshole about it. On Crypto being annoyed:

My favorite thing about mirage. is that. he is in fact SO ANNOYING. hes is mouthy and so jokey, and cocky, and insecure. Meeting him in real life would be a cHALLENGE LMAO. So crypto's line sounding more and more annoyed is genuinely so real of him. He has a short fuse, and gets annoyed easily with EVERYONE (source: his impatient crafting lines, his getting into ring lines, etc.) Crypto is so particular about his time and personal space, i think his annoyance lines are TOP TIER with Mirage, even if they edge into mean territory ( I mean mirage literally calls him "paranoid weirdo", makes light of his mannerisms) . Because its just his character, hes not a people person, while mirage IS! The fanon becomes so fun when you start to imagine HOW they could make that work! On Making Lemonade:

Crypto getting a love interest i dont see as a negative at all, because matching canon is not interesting to me. I am in the minority here i know. Something i love about canon is that it tells you things about your fav character that you can go off of!!! Crypto and wattson having a rapport, even Mila hinting that she thinks Crypto has a crush on her- THIS IS GOLD, FOR YOUR FAVVY CHARACTERS. This tells me that YEAH even if he had a crush, even if its, like killing him inside - HE IS NOT THE FIRST CONFESSOR, He will NEver say a WORD. That is characteristic no. 1 you can put in your arsenal. Like that is so TASTEY. he'd rather go his whole life yearning than confess. SO GOOD, DELICIOUS. Point no 2. He still puts his mission to find and save Mila above things like romance. I think that's so interesting, like, he has this intense mental block to letting himself indulge!

NOW: how to use that info, is up to you! Think about crypto dying of Crush on Mirage, only for mirage to "turn the charm up to 11" for the cameras. Great anguish, Tae Joon. Alternatively, making crypto confess to mirage hints that he MUST have really been dYING. Its only added to my imagination of them ^^

THE BEST PART ABOUT MAKING FAN CONTENT. IS PLAYING WITH THE CHARACTERS LIKE BARBIES!!! The second best part is finding pieces of canon to support your barbie playdate. On Canon Writing:

I will say, i feel like i can sense that the writers are only human in regards to how crypto and mirage appear together lately; Their last interactions being mirage distraught that Crypto wasnt RSVP-ing to his party, only for Crypto to show up the second he knew about said party (AND ASK FOR SOME BUMPIN MUSIC, SO CUTE). They are obviously a dynamic they break out when they need some fun pair to play up (an appropriate) story.

But the writers are just human. When the fandom as a whole picks up a ship you never intended, misinterpreting their words; i can see purposefully writing them shallowly, taking away some dimension- because they have this other story to tell. I think its very regular-person of them to be like "Oh theyre looking at this wrong let me make it clear!". I will go on record saying i don think they "visibly dislike" cryptage, it feels more like there's a bit of railroading of their current plotline, and some side flavor of people interacting is lost lately. That does make me sad, i think- at the very least- they have a great rivals to friends dynamic. And in my eyes there's always room for romance somewhere in there (or a fwb situation :3d ) I'd love to see more of their interactions, however, they have A LOT to go off of. Between the s3 trailer, their lines, the mirage forgot about his party, the UGLY OVERTIME COMIC.

Theres soooo much i can say about this, and them in particular, but i want to just say, PLEASE don't dispair. Theres still so much about them that still stands! Make your own stuff, don't wallow in canon, and most of all (and i say this so respectfully) Try to distance your happiness from 'winning canon'. Its a losing battle. a ship should be more of a hobby than a career - it can alter your mental SO much unless you step back.

Damn i have never needed to shut the fuck up more! TY FOR THIS ASK!!!!

#ty for askin'#cryptage

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tiptapricot · 1 year

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Alright. Finally getting my thoughts together about Mando S3 episode 6! Forewarning this is a very critical and disappointed view on the episode, however I do try and be as nuanced and explanatory as I can, as just like with the rest of this season there is so much potential, so much I almost love, but it’s just not carried through or is handled in a way that makes me confused and frustrated.

This is somewhat organized, but not overly edited, so if things jump around a bit or if there’s typos, excuse me. Other than that, let’s get into it.

So this episode brings a first two seasons side quest vibe to stuff, which personally I enjoyed as I think those side quests (while many ppl see them as filler/a distraction from the main plot) are more ab exploring our characters under different stressors and circumstances and seeing how they act/react as a result. The design for Plazir was gorgeous and intriguing, and it was fun to see Jack Black and Lizzo and Christopher Lloyd. Similarly to a lot of people I had a “HEY I KNOW THOSE GUYS” moment, and it made me smile and laugh.

But then you get into the plot and I just. I was so icked out and uncomfortable and baffled at how it was handled. Plazir is, as it’s set up, an absolute fucking dystopia. Star Wars has never been good with its droid issues, something that always makes me extremely mad and uncomfortable, but beyond the Solo story, I think this may be one of the worst handlings of those issues yet.

I’ll be sharing ideas with the video “The Traegedy of Droids” by Pop Culture Detective pretty consistently in passing here, so please check it out if you haven’t or aren’t aware of what I’m talking about with “the issue with how SWs handles droids.”

The mini plot of this episode is, in summary, our main protagonists helping to carry out a targeted physical oppression of a droid revolution in order to maintain the droid’s enslaved class status and allow the citizens to continue living on free labor. Not only that, but the revolution and fighting back is revealed to not be a choice, but a drugged reaction from an evil human source. The droid bar literally called The Resistor is not, in fact, an underground place for droids to find community and power and push back (despite the fact that it proves they have off time and desires for relaxation and comraderie) but a place for our mains to be reminded that droids actually just love being an enslaved class, and that oh yes these violent push backs actually make them look bad, and what if they’re forced not to work anymore? No they care about their oppressors and couldn’t imagine fighting back. Action like that has to be forced out of them by humans and is unnatural to their regular existence.

And none of this is framed in the dystopian way it should be. Plazir and it’s leaders and citizens are not framed or presented in a negative light, and the moral is not put on helping the droids to not be the forced labor class for a whole planet. The interesting and terrible ideas presented are taken at face value of how the ruling class sees it, and we as the audience are meant to root for Din and Bo as they chase after a droid Din harassed into fighting back, who is running for its life and defending itself, who they kill. We are meant to be happy when they shoot it, feel triumph, see these outbursts the same way those on Plazir/our mains do. We are meant to see droids as both the enemy and as rightfully subservient.

And that’s. Absolutely fucking wild? Similarly to Solo and L3, I cannot fathom the thought process going through the writers brains while setting up a plot that focuses on droid revolution and freedom, only to treat it as a joke, or to end up condemning droids to a fate worse than death/to a content slave class. And all of this, again, our protagonists go along with.

Bo and Din never once question droid rights or sentience, never once go “oh hey we should actually help these guys out.” They stop the uprisings, Lizzo knights Grogu, and the story goes along its way like it was just an unimportant side quest, and not a nightmare. The mains don’t care, the writers don’t care, the world is telling the viewer not to care.

This is exemplified, unfortunately enough, with the use of the cameos. That reaction of “Omg haha! Lizzo! Jack Black! Mr Lloyd!” add to the comedic/trope-y framing of this episode. The acting was great, this is not against the actors present, I was happy to see them, but their presence added to the episode’s unserious/comedic/don’t think about it too much tone. Seeing celebrities we like takes the focus off of the content of the plot and onto “Haha people I like!” And that sours their presence for me.

And like. Droid stuff not being serious has always been around, with protagonists playing into/joking about droid oppression right from the original trilogy, but hating droids has within the mandalorian itself been built up to be unreasonable and a flaw.

Din is droid-racist. That’s been part of his character since the start, and it has been something he has grown with, that the story has attempted to show him working against despite his prejudices. Yes, he is not over his hate for droids, trusting a few will not change his views on them all, and his actions still being violent and prejudiced this episode are not totally out of character. But he’s been shown to be working on that, and the issue comes with the fact that these actions are not seen as an issue past being impulsive. Kicking a line of workers until one lashes out, saying “if they’re programmed right they shouldn’t mind,” threatening to kill a droid bartender, not questioning forced labor, being excited to kill droids, are all framed as funny or correct or just regular “fighting before talking” type characterization, and not as the deeply flawed and bigoted actions they are.

I’ve seen people in fandom saying “well it’s because of his battle droid PTSD” “din still hates droids that wasn’t resolved” “he’s not just going to be fine around the droids that killed his parents” and like. Yeah, sure. But that doesn’t excuse the actions. They should still be seen as a big fucking issue, as him acting grossly out of line and holding up a “one bad experience means the whole group is bad forever” mentality. Not just a character quirk or something funny or an excuse. The best I can liken it to atm is racism from war vets against the group they fought against. You may be able to understand the distrust and trauma associations but hey guess what! Doesn’t excuse the racism/xenophobia/etc.! But the plot and story framing sure does, and it’s been effective, because the fandom has been doing the same thing too! And it’s. Wild to me!

Like I get many people don’t think about stuff, because again that’s how the world frames it, but you gotta? You gotta see the messages being pushed here?

And from a narrative standpoint you can’t just introduce a storyline like this without dealing with the implications it therefore burdens the story with discussing. Otherwise you end up with something reductive, trivializing, and at its core really really ideologically gross, which is what we got here.

This also doesn’t even touch on:

—The further use of the amnesty program in a way that doesn’t fully dig into the messed up results or the irl parallels to operation paperclip

—Ugnaughts being the only organic labor class we see besides those monitoring security, another group that’s framed as loving to work on the things the ruling class don’t want to, and also living in the dark underground

—The implications of direct democracy and non-militant societies being seen as weak and unreasonable

—Leaders finding loopholes in their laws to intact violence into a revolting class without having to answer for the repercussions of rule breaking

Mainly because I don’t have the brain to unpack all of it. But hey! Just shows how much they introduced with no real thought of how big a can of worms it opened up from a political and social perspective. Something that while a constant in Star Wars at this point never makes it alright. It’s lazy and shows the underlying racist/capitalist politics running through most main pieces of the universe, of which this episode I’d say is probably Mando’s most outright example of. (There are exceptions, Andor being a huge one, but lord is that an exception with everything around it)

And like in concept a neo-noir detective story/procedural with the mando cast sounds awesome, that’s one of my favorite genres, but this was just good old fashioned copaganda and race/class fumble episode with no real nuance, point, or lingering effects on our characters and their view of droids. When I’m fully able to say Detroit become human did a better job handling the ideas of robot sentience/freedom/uprising/changing sides, I think you need to take a good hard look at your story.

So just. That’s that part of the episode. And that’s already so much, but then we have the ending/it’s ties into the overall plot.

From the start we get no real explanation for why Din is with Bo and no one else, what the fallout of the armorer’s decision and reveal of Bo’s place in things had on the covert or on Din and Bo. We just jump in. Then you have Din and Bo showing their individual leading strengths in the episode, the balance between diplomacy and action, heavily implying some joint ruling need, or even showing Din finally showing leadership skills.

But then we get to the final scene with the Axe and Bo fight, and I’ll say I loved that combat! Beat each other up! It was great and I think shows their competence and the statement that fighting makes in mando culture, as well as asserting Bo’s place leading her group. But then we also get two really fucking stupid things.

The first is Axe saying Din isn’t a real mando because of blood even though that? Has never really been a staple of the culture??? This opens up an idea that the night owls have different views on Mandalorian culture than the larger consensus that understands it as a religion, a culture, a people, but not a homogenous group with direct biological descent. Foundlings are huge! So where is this coming from? What’s the background there?

It muddies up a lot of character stuff, culture stuff, and the analogies Mandalorian culture has to real life groups like the Jewish community, various Indigenous and colonized communities, etc. As with so much of this season, Mandalorian culture and politics is begging to be explored, to be fleshed out and dug into in a deeper way than it has been already, and even with new ideas the writers decide to use, it’s given almost no focus. It’s frustrating and disheartening.

Second, ofc, is the Darksaber hand off. I have talked previously about one of the largest issues this season being the writers wrapping up Din’s arcs and plots with no real focus or fanfare, and this was another slap in the face in that regard. Officially, every single important thing from the end of S2 has been wrapped up either in a spin off series that shouldn’t even have had sm Din focus, or in the second episode of the third season. Everything that poised Din for a huge character arc at the end of season 2, at a fundamental change and exploration in himself, has been tossed aside. And it makes no sense to do that. So let’s go through them each!

1. Grogu. Throughout the first two seasons Din and Grogu’s relationship was a focus. It was about Din breaking rules and getting into danger to save this kid, his drive to protect him, to connect him with his people, and then to save him from Gideon. We get that line “He is more important to me than you will ever know,” and then Din has to give him away. This sets up exploring how Grogu has changed him, how that relationship has affected them both, how Din now operates without him.

But then he was reunited with Grogu relatively easily, and there has been no focus on how the newfound understanding of Grogu’s importance to Din affects their relationship now. He hasn’t even recognized himself as Grogu’s father yet, and there’s been no real bonding moments past some in the first two episodes and the background shallow cute moments in others. There’s been no side interactions of Din asking about what Grogu learned, or treasuring having him back, or reflecting on his place as a parent, or making sure he doesn’t lose him again. In episode 6 Din even leaves Grogu with strangers he’s just met for the entire episode and that has no fallout or recognition, despite one of them being an ex-imperial.

2. Breaking the creed. Throughout the first two seasons, again, Din’s faith and his adherence to the CotW’s beliefs are a huge focus. From episode one and on we get variations of the question “Why don’t you take off your helmet?” “Just take off your helmet” “don’t mandos never take their helmets off?” And we see Din is willing to die rather than break that, rather than not be Mandalorian anymore in his eyes. But he does anyway. For Grogu. A testament to not only his growth because of him, but to his commitment to Grogu over all else.

And he is in some ways hopeless because of that. He willingly takes off his helmet again to show Grogu his face before he says goodbye, because he is all Din has left at that point, all that matters in the moment.

But, of course, there is no lasting effect. Bathing in the waters, built up to be a season long arc, was aborted to being finished in episode two with relatively extreme ease, and even then, had no lingering focus on what being redeemed meant for Din. There was no questioning or clinging to faith, no discussions of how much this meant for him, no lingering on the bathing (because it was turned into a rescue action scene for Bo’s story!), no discussion of how being accepted back and cleansed affected him. One of the largest parts of the character since his introduction is. A footnote.

3. The darksaber/ruler of Mandalore story. This one’s just. Nothing. Also resolved retroactively in episode 2, and with no plot presence otherwise. To start this out, no I didn’t think Din was going to have this great rise to being Mand’alor, that was never really where the plot was going in my eyes. But no matter where it should’ve gone or what it should’ve been, it should’ve been something. Yes! He doesn’t want it! So show us why, show us what that responsibility or implication means to him, why his sect of culture doesn’t care about it, why he doesn’t believe himself to be the one to rule or unite. Make him giving it up feel as earned as if he’d kept it. This is one of the most frustrating aspects of this episode and a final straw in my vendetta against the writers.

The dark saber doesn’t even make an appearance between episodes two and six, it’s that unimportant. There is no conversation with Paz or the Armorer, who both know Din has it. There is no discussion about what it means with Jedi vs Mando history, or with Bo Katan about her history with it. This therefore makes Din having it pointless. It did nothing beyond maybe some combat scenes and the brief Butt up against Paz in BoBF. Another case of more actual plot engagement being in BoBF than the main show. There was no point for it to change hands to Din, because him having it changed nothing, made no one grow, made no one think. It affected Bo, which I’ll touch on again in a bit, but the story blooming there could’ve come around by many other means and was not tied to Din at all.

But before I dig into that aspect, the amount of times I’ve seen “Din never wanted the saber that’s why hes finding an easy loophole to give it up” “Din likes being a side character” stuff is so!!! Like!!! Yes! He doesn’t want it he doesn’t want action and responsibility and he doesn’t care about it but he is not making choices he is not real he is being written lazily! This is the writers not wanting to engage with their own character that they built up and created and set the arcs in motion for.

A show can have multiple mains, can shift character focus, but “The Mandalorian” at its inception was referring to Din Djarin and there was no precident for that focus to completely shift. This isn’t a show that changes protags every season, he used to be a shape in the title, is on the merch and the branding. And if there is meant to be a protagonist shift it has to be gradual, and to still involve his development in the impact on that other character. The explanation of “Well it’s called The Mandalorian not Din Djarin” just makes me really mad cause yeah? It is? But it’s also called Star Wars and not Luke Skywalker but we still understand he is the main protagonist, even if other characters develop and are present alongside him.

And there’s no excuse to sideline Din, because the truth is he does have growth to get, he does have arcs to explore, the only reason he’s so flat and has nothing to work towards right now is because the writers threw that away. Specifically in ways that did not make sense from a character or writing perspective.

And why is that? Because they wanted to write someone else, they wanted to write Bo Katan.

Which is exciting! I love Bo as a character from what I’ve seen of her. She is complex and flawed and has a deeply fucked up past that’s intrinsically connected to Mandalore and it’s future. That is a fascinating character to work with, and I don’t mind her being more present in Mando as it tracks for the goal of bringing Mandalorians together. But! This plot is not doing her justice either.

Throughout this season Bo has been dragged along through the shallows in her own journey. There has been no discussion of her past, of Death Watch’s terrorism and torture and murder, of Satine, of her several past attempts to lead Mandalore, of her history with the civil wars and with clan Viszla and with so much more. Which is wild, because you’d think a season which has chosen to focus on her would? Give a shit about her? Would actually engage with the character she is and what she brings to the table?

Instead she’s been handed every plot point, reduced to a girlboss leader, and her rise to getting the saber again is not only forced with no real discussion or nuance, but she’s once again been given it on a technicality. Just as Din giving up the saber is not a decision and shift earned by development, Bo getting it again isn’t either.

And as I mentioned earlier, she was affected by Din getting the saber in that it led to her people leaving her, and led her to question things, but it being Din having the saber means nothing. The same thing would’ve happened had anyone else gotten the saber, or had it been vented off into space or lost or hidden or whatever. By giving it to a specific character, that begs for interaction over that ownership, for discussion and reflection and connection with that character.

And yet there has been nothing. Bo and Din have had some good interactions, yes, but the development the show seems to want for Bo, seems to want the audience to be rooting for and going along with, is not being shown.

To make all of this more basic, the issue with this episode and this whole season thus far, is that it refuses to engage with its own ideas to a fault. It doesn’t want to get its hands messy, doesn’t want to untie the complicated and fascinating and fucked up knot it’s tied for itself. Instead it’s slicing through all of those Gordian style and leaving us to wonder about what might’ve been, about what the story seems to want to be.

I love a lot of the concepts this season, I love what it could be. I love the characters and the world and the religion and the politics, but I have to actually see what is set up, what is set in motion, what is built, to feel like I am watching the show I loved at the start.

And though it’s not as relevant to this episode, it feels relevant here: This should’ve been a Mandalorian politics season, not a new republic politics season.

Yes, they are intertwined, but at the moment the new republic development feels like a main focus, meant to set things up for further installments in the franchise or retroactively explain pst choices, and the mandalorian culture a side focus, and this has caused a detriment to both. Neither gets explored in their full complexity and nuance, and the story feels unfocused and weirdly disjointed as a result.

I’ve seen people upset by the great divide or presence of fandom negativity lately and I get that, but I feel there needs to be an understanding that people aren’t hating just to hate, this is a serious disappointment with the tanking quality of the show and it’s lack of commitment to itself. When something doesn’t deliver on what it markets itself to be, what the writing lays a basis for, that breaks trust and engagement and enjoyment, and leads to people being pissed. It happens. You can still enjoy the show, while also recognizing there is a boatload of valid criticism and issues and flawed messages that are making people uncomfortable, disinterested, and angry.

And having expectations doesnt devalue those criticisms either. I’ve seen a lot of talk of like “you wanted it to be something it’s not” and while that’s true in some cases, I had no solid ideas for this season beyond… what it showed it was going to do. And I am trying to engage with the ideas it is presenting. Again, I like the hypothetical arc at play, but the execution just. Isn’t it for me. The writing quality isn’t good and isn’t smooth and as I hope I’ve laid out, isn’t living up to its own potential or ideas.

So. Yeah.

I just want a show to be what it was begging to be, what it set itself up to be, what the characters and plot threads are wanting to be, but aren’t able to reach in their entirety. I want stuff that makes sense, that makes me think, that isn’t bigoted and lazy and frustrating. But I haven’t been getting that. And that really sucks.

TLDR: a train wreck in motion, but it was carrying cargo I would’ve loved to see.

#the fruit is talking again #the mandalorian #the mandalorian spoilers #the mandalorian season 3 #the mandalorian critical

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yukipri · 1 year

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The Bad Batch Season 2 Wrap Up Thoughts

I never ended up sharing my thoughts on the Bad Batch S2 finale. Since we're hopefully getting news of S3 tomorrow, this seemed like a good time?

First, to be clear, I love so much about the show. This is not meant to be a complaint thread. But I'm also critical of certain aspects. You're warned.

This is also a compiled Twitter thread!

Spoilers through the end of Season 2!

First off, I can't understate how beautiful the show was, just as an experience. The cinematography, the visual designs, the music. The unique worlds and unique characters. There were so many shots that were breathtaking, haunting. When a scene hits, it HITS.

I love both TCW & Rebels dearly, but cumulative skills + experience as well as new technology clearly shows. TBB, TotJ (and of course TCW S7) are just so captivating to watch as works of art. These shows are, frankly, worth it for that alone. But of course that's not all.

One of TBB's strengths is the depth it gives the worlds the characters visit, as well as the side/guest characters. Perhaps due to the nature of many of the episodes being more of an exploration than straight up war like TCW, but we can see more of these places. TCW also had so many neat planets/aliens/cultures, but due to the constantly pressing war, we were only ever allowed a glimpse and I constantly wished there was more. TBB really scratched that itch. I'm thinking specifically of Kashyyyk, with its fauna and wookiee traditions.

The same with side/guest characters. They all had such great flavor, with fun designs and motives. Phee was a standout among the non-clones. I also loved how it gave us such a personal exploration of characters we knew and loved before, like Riyo.

The thing about TBB is that it's set in such a fascinating time period that we don't have too much media of, at least in new canon. The formation of the Empire is a time where we know all these other characters must be alive and working hard, but we haven't seen it before.

This leads me to the writing. Oh, the writing...

How do I say this. The writing in this show gave me whiplash. Some of the episodes were beyond brilliant, giving us deeply personal character moments, layered metaphors, and context in how it affects the greater SW universe.

Others...not so much.

I understand this is not the case for everyone, but for me personally to enjoy a story, when there are any stakes involved, I need the characters to show some awareness of them, and for these to affect their actions. There are a limited number of episodes and that time must be spent wisely. I don't mean this at all to say that I didn't enjoy the lighter fun adventure missions with the Batch, nor do I think these episodes can't be used productively.

But TBB S1 started off with Crosshair siding with the Empire.

I kept waiting for them to *show* that the others cared. It could be they were troubled, it could be they missed him, it could have been shown in so many ways. I kept expecting these brief moments in the Fun Times episodes, which would have given me some emotional continuity.

The writers are absolutely capable of it! After Plan 99, when Echo glances at the co-pilot seat—stuff like that, I was personally expecting it through all of S1 and S2. I get that the Batch feel they have to do other things and Crosshair made his own choice, but I thought the point was they care about their brother regardless.

Mind you, I'm not the biggest fan of Crosshair, but I do find him interesting. And I felt that in the two episodes most centered around him, he had such tangible growth that was depicted so well. He went from stating that the Batch are superior to regs in S1 finale, to having clear doubts after working with Cody, to shooting a natborn officer because he didn't help a "reg" he'd just met. We see Crosshair being included by the clones he disdains, we see how it compares to the Empire he thought he wanted to be a part of. The writing in Crosshair's episodes were tight, and he went far within them, few as they were.

In comparison, the rest of the Batch...with their far greater number of episodes...what were they doing??

I love character-centric eps, but even on a personal level, I wasn't sure what the charas gained. Tech is the sole exception; he was given many introspective moments, from Sorenno, to Phee, to the cave talk with Omega. Not sure how much he changed, but he expressed himself.

To also be clear, I'm also not including Echo in any of this. He has been the voice of trying to get the Batch to do things, to *change*, since S1. I felt his frustration keenly. Which is why I felt that when he left to go with Rex...I sort of left the Batch with him.

I mean this in the sense that Echo didn't *want* to leave the Batch, not necessarily. He wanted, and he *did* try to get Hunter to care about what their brothers are suffering, and he has been since S1. Echo can't stand to leave them chipped when he could do something.

He wanted the Batch to feel the same. *I* wanted the Batch to feel the same. But they didn't. I see Echo breaking with them less as him leaving, and more as they (or at least Hunter) firmly telling him that that's not their fight, and they're not going to do it.

This isn't the Batch going out of their way to help, or not knowing how. Echo and Rex have given them an open invitation. The Batch know how to help, who needs it, and why. They know their "reg" brothers don't have many if any others fighting for them. The Batch (Hunter) have these opportunities to help and know they are among the few positioned to offer it...and they still walk away.

The Batch (Hunter) sees the other clones fates as none of their business. On one hand, I get that they never fit in, were called names and weren't allowed to sit with the cool kids at lunch. On the other, "they were mean" and "therefore they should be mind-controlled slaves" is grossly disproportional. Likewise it's not as though this fight doesn't concern them. Even if they can't find it in themselves to care about "regs," it's Rex who told them to remove their chips and went out of his way to make sure they did based on info that Fives gathered, without which Wrecker would have killed Omega. Perhaps I wouldn't go as far as to say they *owe* other clones, but my opinion of them certainly continued to drop as they made explicitly clear that they're fine with this being the fate of other clones.

So okay, fine. TBB isn't a story about the Batch discovering they have more alike with other clones than they first thought (other than Crosshair, who actually does get that story). That's what I wanted, alright, I know I'm not getting that at this point.

But then, where does that leave them? What do they care about, what do they fight for?

Their brother...right?

Except...they don't really do that either??? (points at earlier in this rant) At least, until the very last episodes, where an opportunity presents itself, and most of the Batch jumps on it...except Hunter.

The way he's written just *baffles* me. I can't say anything about his personality other than "he cares about Omega," but even that, when at the expense of his other brothers, is tiring. Immediately after Tech gives his life on a mission he wanted to go on to try to save Crosshair, he suggests they all hide away on Pabu (even with the knowledge that Omega is wanted and they're being hunted). I get that he wanted to hide from the pain, but in that context?? Even then, he can't care about Cross??

And then when Omega is kidnapped, the difference in his reaction between that and what happened with Crosshair...it was, frankly, painful.

I feel like by the end of the series, Tech would have been more open to joining Echo/the clones' fight. Wrecker will just go along. Echo has already plunged headfirst into helping others, Crosshair got character growth and defected from the Empire. And Omega has always wanted to help even strangers, but only doesn't when Hunter tells her no.

I feel that Hunter's the one dragging his heels for the Batch to progress, and he's supposed to be the leader.

All of this to say, I've been trying so hard to like the Batch since S1, and they didn't really click for me (other than Echo, who I don't count since I loved him from long before, and still consistently have). But by the end of S2, I think I've concluded that I'd like the others perfectly fine if they were under different leadership that encouraged them to care, to act.

I don't want to say I *dislike* him, but man...I'm super disappointed in Hunter, and I'm not sure if/how that might change.

This leads me to my final thought, which is: I would strongly prefer if "the Clone Story" be told from a different lens than Hunter-centric TBB.

What I mean is, throughout the show, there have been multiple pivotal events that affect all clones, not just the Batch.

The fall of Kamino, the failure of the clones' rights bill are the big ones. But even without those, through the glimpses of the "regs" like Howzer, Gregor, Wilco, Cody, Slip, Cade, and Mayday, we see how the Empire is treating the rest of them as a group.

I'm deeply invested in these boys and their stories, and frankly, all of these boys instantly became my faves in their few moments of screen time. I want more of these, and it feels deeply unfair that they've done so much to tell compelling stories but have so little time.

They are an extension of the clones I love from TCW in a way that the Batch just aren't, and don't seem to be interested in becoming.

Not even that, but we know from Hunter's rejection of Echo that the Batch (Hunter) don't *care.*

Fine, they don't care. But I'm admittedly deeply concerned about how S3 will go, because even if the Batch doesn't care about the Clone Story, they (Hunter) don't seem to be doing a great job progressing their internal story either (Crosshair).

I understand Omega has some crucial background we're *finally* getting to. I want to know why she's special, why she's unaltered. I want to know what she has that Boba doesn't, or if she's just Nala Se's favorite. Maybe that's relevant to the Clone Story.

But frankly, personally, I would prefer if TBB S3 goes full in focussing on building Hunter and Wrecker up emotionally, and just going full in on what it means for them as a Batch to be there for each other. They need that, desperately, without distractions.

I would prefer if the Clone Story (frankly, the story I'm far more invested in) is told through Rex and other clones, who passionately care and are in the fight. If Echo jumps between the 2 groups and links them, great! I think the Batch would make excellent guest characters. But NOT protagonists of a story where they don't care while everyone else does.

I guess all of this to say, it's sad that I think I liked the Batch the most in TCW S7, and my impression of them as a group (which I recognize is largely due to Hunter) has only gone downhill since.

Again, to be clear, I did enjoy the show.

I LOVED eps 3, 7, 8, 12, 14, to the point I'd say they're possibly my favorite eps of any SW show. These eps are conspicuously non Batch-centric. I loved many *parts* of other episodes.

The *show* has given me so much to love. Unfortunately, none of those things are Hunter.

#YukiPri rambles #TBB #The Bad Batch #Spoilers #the Bad Batch Spoilers #TBB Spoilers #TBB S2 #The Bad Batch Season 2 #longpost #rant post

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s-ccaam-era-crepe · 8 months

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ooo can I hear about the bap crew?

OF COURSE <333 i loveeee talking about the bap crew thank youuuu

okay so first off general warnings for the podcasts and all my posts about it for the most part <3 there are mentions of cults, death/murder, religion (and the like) and i think thats it mostly? (as a general) but sometimes it can be a lot, take care of yourself yall <33 and the rest is under the cut there is a lot <3

with that out of the way i guess if you didn't know already lol !! they are my podcast ocs !!! i'm in the works of creating a horror <3 podcast that takes place in an amusement park with 5 main characters and a god <3

so this post here explains a lot about the main characters personalities and stuff and the tags #brickwoods and #bap on my tumblr have some other posts related to the crew <3 recently i've been doing some extra stuff for fleshing out their families who will eventually be showing up in podcast and i can do a quick over view of them here tho <3

oh and not necessarily crew related but the length of podcast <333 imma ramble about that for a sec <3 so season 1 is going to be all amusement park stuff and the last episode of that season will be a major plot point/death (sorta setting the darker/more dramatic scene for s2) s2 is also amusement park shenanigans however now that the stakes have been raised the rest of the cast is pretty scared now yk. but they have still their motivations for wanting to get out and so <3

s3 is going to be after our final girl rebecca escapes the park and tries to a) sorta solve why that happened in the first place (why them. who is the god etc etc) and b) try to give closure to the others families so yeah. plus some other plots things yk <3

and then s4 will most likely be rebecca trying to stop/take down the cult because she doesn't want something like this to happen again and the ending is in workshop <33 (aka i can't decide between like. a couple possible endings i have planned but main plot won't change despite which one i eventually choose :))

okay so back to the crew lol <33 since that other post explains a lot of basic stuff about them feel free to ask specific questions about them now that you have info about them <3 but for now family time !!!

(specific warnings for this area some bad parents mentioned)

so david <3 ae is an only child with 2 moms, they are very sweet and amazing and extremely Extremely heartbroken when david never comes home after the park and stuff. they definitely had like plans for college visits and they had a car ready for when david was going to get aer license. the two of them are going to be pretty sad to write for in s3 i think but also i love them as characters (i was posting about them like last week lol they are very cute and fun when they arent sad </3)

hmm sophia's family <3 so her dad was born into the cult when it was a bit less strict (he was 'home-schooled' by the cult but also was allowed out bc his family is a main influential family) and her mom married in. they aren't the nicest parents by a long shot, and they only respect sophia because she became the leader. sophia does have a sibling however she doesn't know about them bc their parents kept them separate in order not to 'taint' sophia's godly touch

rebecca's family doesn't have too much going on, it is also an only child and her parents have been active in her life, not as great/caring as davids parents yet not uncaring either. rebecca really just lived with them her whole life and doesn't totally feel like it connected with its parents in any important way tbh

sunni ! so sunni grew up with only his mom and his sister and after the incident with carter (wait did i tell yall that was her name yet. thats the mutual best friends name in case i Didnt say that already <3) sunni's sister Mary ended up moving out with a friend and not keeping in touch with sunni or their mom again. she also changed her last name as soon as she legally could. but yeah so sunni doesn't have a very close relationship with his mom either and he has no relationship with his sister anymore which upests him a lot but he also keeps this close to him

and blair <3 so blair has 2 brothers (twins age 10 (i think)) named ben and bruno (named by My twin siblings so) and their parents are pretty bad. blair is very protective of their younger brothers and has been trying for a while to save up enough to move all of them out but hasn't quite yet. they fight really hard in the park to try and get out because they do not want to leave their brothers with out someone else to help and be there with them.

and i think thats it for a basic run over of all their families and the characters in general a bit <3 :)) feel free to ask any questions based on this post, the last post or like. literally anything <33 they are my passion project and i love BAP sooo very much <3

#camera asks #whittingsonder #thank you SO much for the ask whit !!#also this took forever to type out i apologize </3 #anyways woo !! i love them lots <3 #also there are Probably spelling/grammar errors im so sorry lol </3 #brickwoods #bap asks #bap

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