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creatively-cosmic · 6 months

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Hi Starry, I’m back! :D

I’m glad you like the questions and that they aren’t annoying, because every bit of lore I read is like a taking a shot of dopamine lmao. And that picture of Fire getting a hug 🥹 brightened up my whole day. Trust me when I say that you guys reposting pictures and adding content to older ones isn’t obnoxious in the slightest. The art (at least for me) makes it easier to digest and form connections about the story in my head, plus y’alls art is great—who wouldn’t want to look at it? The lore/art in the last one was particularly interesting. (Like, young Red looks like such an polite, upstanding citizen and then you scroll down two pages and now it’s like “Tf you lookin crazy for”? Was that an implication that Steven had something to do with Red going missing/becoming Glitchy? And Leaf is funking DEAD?-)

Anyways, you know what that means! Question time: Leaf Edition!

The First (and most obvious) question: What happened to Leaf? Why is the homegirl dead? (Why was Leaf being dead, out of all the things I’ve seen so far, the one thing I wasn’t expecting?)

Second: What’s the relationship between Leaf, Fire and Blue? You said that Blue and Fire’s murder-suicide loop was spurred on by her death, so were they friends before she died? Did they see it?

And two smaller questions: How tall are the main four (Red, Blue, Fire, Leaf)? And do they have Pokémon Teams? If so, what are their teams looking like?

That’s all till next time! Have a good day/afternoon/night wherever you are!

TUMBLR FUCKING CRASHED HALFWAY THROUGH ANSWERING THIS ASK IM SO MAD FUCK. FUCKKK

We honestly can't thank you enough for all your questions, compliments, and just overall being a huge sweetheart. We're really happy you've been enjoying these, and whatever dopamine you get from seeing these, we probably get like. TENFOLD, just for seeing someone so interested, and giving us a chance to talk about this wild ride of a story. So really- thank you. This has been a delight!

This one is gonna be REALLY long (I have to rewrite fucking HALF OF IT now DAMMIT), as we want to talk on the stuff you crossed out, too.

(I'll put their heights and teams in a follow-up post btw, so watch for that.)

1. Red.

Young Red is an interesting point in time. See, he and Blue had a LOT in common- a lot more than you might think. Of course, Red was a good kid, genuinely- always so caring for his Pokemon, kind and passionate about them. He was polite to the people around him, and always soft spoken, when or if he spoke at all. The adults around Kanto and his hometown always adored him for how well mannered he seemed- a real role model, and stand up child. Just a bit shy.

In all truth though, Red moreso had a very strong mask. One that he only dropped, allowing himself to relax and act like himself around one person: his best friend, Blue.

Both of those boys were a lot more immature and competitive with each other- the main difference being Blue didn't hide it like Red did. They LOVED competing, always trying to one up each other in everything they did. When they were together, Red wasn't afraid to speak his mind, signing or whispering to his friend with a smug grin on his face. Around his friend, Red could really be himself, and they both loved it. Having so much fun, roughhousing and taking jabs and just being children around each other. A lot of people, when seeing this, would assume Blue- who was always rude and a bit more standoffish- was a bad influence, but really, the two couldn't be happier than they were with each other.

... When you spend God knows how long, trapped in a dimension with no human life, desperate and angry with unholy forces eating away at your mind, will, and sanity. Let's just say masking doesn't end up staying a necessary skill. A good portion of why Red being Like That now is honestly? Just because he just gave up on trying to make himself presentable.

He has bigger problems now than worrying about how people see him, anyways.

2. Steven.

I'll try to keep this short, as the Strangled Red elements of this story could warrant it's own post entirely.

To put it simply: Steven is, in part, directly responsible for Red's fate.

It wasn't HIS decision, mind you. He barely even thinks for himself anymore. But there were things that wanted Red, and Steven is very suggestible when it takes the right approach. So it lays itself out so simply.

Red trusted Steven, after all. Idolized him. Missed him. Would follow him anywhere. What better possible option could there be?

Of course Steven is the one to drown that boy on the coast of Cinnabar.

3. Leaf. (cw for animal death.)

Finally, the star of the show for this ask (as if this isn't long enough already). I can see why the information for her is more supriding as we haven't posted as much for her, which. We do feel bad about- our ability and motivation to make art for her was severely hindered by our struggle (I'm talking MONTHS) to make a design for her that we were happy with. Her story is WELL figured out, though, so we're glos we get to discuss! And now that her design is actually finalized, there should be more visual stuff for her coming.

So what happened?

Well! As is the entire premise of Missing Numbers, each major individual is based off of various Pokepastas. The easiest way to answer that is one of two of Leaf's sources:

Abandoned Loneliness.

But first, we have to go further back.

Fire was not the only Vessel made by the Almighty.

... He was the first, and the favorite. But he wasn't the only one. Leaf was the other.

Once Fire had come to Palette town, the next Game was set to begin any time now. But as the Almighty looked down on the world, He looked back at the others that had been built, and realized that the new Kanto was missing something. An alternative option. Though He was reluctant to change the structure of the world, it was, by all means, an improvement, and something the Players would expect after the past Generations.

She was less meticulously made than her brother. She kept her Heart and Mind about her, as there wasn't time, nor was it safe, to rid her of them like Fire. She would serve well enough as a Vessel regardless- and she did, as when the Game began, Leaf was chosen as the player's Avatar. (Not quite what the Almighty had expected, but the choice had been given for a reason, so it would be foolish to change anything now...)

Blissfully unaware of the nature of her existence, Leaf proceeded to go on a triumphant adventure through Kanto.

This is a good time, before we get back to the tragedy, to answer your second question!

Leaf, Blue, and Fire's dynamic changed throughout their journey through Kanto. At the beginning, let's just say things were... Tense.

Fire acted hollow, in the beginning, as he was meant to. Genuinely, it was fully expected that he'd be chosen as the players Avatar. So without it, he was left... Quiet and cold. It seemed he didn't care for anyone- not Blue, nor his sister.

Blue, meanwhile, was NOT in a good headspace. But at this point, after about two years passed since Red's dissapearance, he'd learned to hide those feelings. The people of Palette town, including his Rivals, knew him as this bitter, irritable person, resentful towards the world for incomprehensible reasons.

Leaf was the only "normal" one, basically. A cheerful, excited girl, whose heart bled for everyone she cared about and always tried to stand for the right thing. She didn't know where she came from... She had no memories of her life before "Red" and Hazel (Fire's mother) Yuuji found her, seemingly abandoned in the tall grass just outside of Palette Town, under the falling autumn leaves. Taken in as a part of their family, she grew attracted quickly, her loyalty and love and impulsive need to protect coming to be what she was known for.

With all this given, when the journey started. Leaf HATED Blue- he seemed to despise and bully her brother more than anyone. Blue didn't like Leaf much either, but wasn't as harsh towards her as he was Fire. Fire was as... Neutral as ever. But he silently followed the two once they went out, almost as if he wanted to watch over them. Ensure their safety.

As the journey continued, over time, away from the stuffiness of their hometown, the three started to grow closer. Maybe the fresh air was doing Blue good. Maybe Leaf was learning more about the world. Maybe Fire's deep brown eyes were growing warmer.

Somehow, a death was the tipping point for all of them to finally become friends. It's absurd, how grief was the thing driving them apart, but ultimately went to bring them together.

When Blue's Raticate died, he quickly fell back to his lowest point. Angry and hateful and heartbroken, lashing out, and ultimately running away. ... But it put everything in perspective. Through all her guilt (it was in a fight against her, after all, that the Raticate had been so severely injured), Leaf suddenly understood why Blue had been so horrible before: he was mourning. And he needed someone. It didn't make her forgive him, but it made her extend a hand.

And for once, knelt over the grave of a lost Pokemon, Blue accepted it. From that act of kindness, Blue genuinely began to get along with the others, and slowly, the trio came to be friends- all the way up to and after the Championship, where despite losing again, Blue felt closer to the others than ever.

... It seems in this world, good things don't last.

The events of Abandoned Loneliness happened several months after Leaf became champion. When revisiting Raticate's grave with Blue, Leaf came across a peculiar Pokemon- a horribly sickly little Eevee, too weak to even cry. Leaf had never been the kind to leave a Pokemon in need to fend for itself- kindly, she took the little stray into her care, determined to nurse it back to health.

The properties of Glitched or Corrupted Pokemon aren't something I need to dive into right now this is already ungodly long. What's important is that the Eevee was not a natural Pokemon. It should've been dead.

It always starts with a Pokemon that should've been dead.

Let's just say... Everything unraveled from there. Fully explaining what the events of Abandoned Loneliness translates to in Missing Numbers isn't something I have the energy to write at the moment (this is so long and I've been putting off finishing it cause I'm still mad all my initial writing got deleted >_<).

The important part comes down to Leaf's demise at the hands of this "curse." Bonded to that sickly little Eevee, when the world pushed her to put it out of its misery- voices of the damned screaming, unbearable, suffocating, demanding she DO IT DO IT DO IT, you can't bear to watch it suffer anymore, after all... The destiny bond it held her in dragged her down with it.

Nobody witnessed her death. She was alone and isolated at the foot of a mountain. She thought she could solve everything herself. Thought she could handle it all.

Her body was only found days later, curled up on the ground, rotting blood seeping from her eyes, with the body of the poor little Eevee in her arms. Trapped and suffocated by the hands that killed it. It was far too late. To maje it worse, her friends were the first to know of her death.

Fire was the one who found her body, after all.

Leaf's demise was a SEVERE breaking point, and unlike Fire, she didn't get a chance to be revived by God. Her modern presence in the world was not... Authorized, let's just say. Leaf had to claw and fight to keep hold of herself and climb back to existence in ways unprecedented, and believed to be impossible. But despite being a corrupted entity, her body was stable. And so, rather than Smite her as he would other Glitches, the Almighty decided to make good of an unintended situation: He could make use of her. A man on the inside is a powerful tool, after all.

So long as He kept her anger for her fate targeted towards the "true" threats.

I could keep going but I've babbled on way too much already for this post lol. I'm so sorry about the delay on this one- life REALLY got in the way. And Tumblr's buggy ass mobile app 💀

hopefully i can elaborate more without any crashing in the next round if there is one ashfshf

#i plan to keep doing this according to questions we get so we keep posting like. Jusst based on interest #that being said i would LOVEEE to talk about the biology mechanics and nature of Glitches (bats my eyes)#it'd help put a lot more in context probably #anyways. leaf has issues #genuinely i was planning to recount the full story of how she ended up. like that but #im so tired dude tumblr fucking up really took the energy out of this response after a point #anything else you want me to explain or elaborate on u know you just gotta shoot an ask though okayyyyyy #missing numbers

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ofonikabutobeetlesandmen · 3 years

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Theory: Shenhe’s Backstory and Potential Connection to Chongyun

I originally posted this to reddit, but I was so pleased with my hypothesis and a response I got I decided to share it here as well. Click here for the original reddit post because someone made a good point about how she could be removing herself from her humanity in order to ascend.

When a new character drops, I'm personally always more interested in what the character can offer in terms of personality + lore. And Shenhe definitely has the potential to pack a fair bit of it and I was wondering what everyone's prediction of her story was since at least until we have her voice lines + character stories, that's all we can do.

(Scroll to the end for the tldr)

All we know thus far, combined with leaks and her official hoyolab post, is:

She's from a branch family of a clan of exorcists but for some reason Cloud Retainer took her in

In one of her idles she clutches a picture close to her chest, revealed to be a worn picture of a house

Her special dish is meant to replicate a taste she remembers

Her Constellation means Crest of Sorrow probably meaning she has a troubled past (plus she’s a cryo unit lol)

She has physically changed due to eating and drinking as if she were an adeptus

Her name card implies that her white hair isn't natural but a result of her hair turning white at a young age and her model kinda indicates that as well with the gradient of white to gray to black and is considered a sign of sorrow in Liyue

She's likely going to be related to Chongyun.

Not because he's the only other character in the game who is from an exorcist family but Chongyun's opinion of her isn't available yet until we complete a currently unavailable quest. Can't really see why that would be the case for his character specifically unless they were from the same clan or he is somehow tied to her backstory. (Yes I know Ningguang and Xiao’s are locked for her as well, I just mean that it doesn’t really make sense for Chongyun’s unless it is especially important).

I think there might have been complications with their presumed same clan. I'm not sure if Chongyun is from the main family or another branch family that is more favorable (I have to look through his lore and max his friendship), but maybe Shenhe's clan fell out of favor (sort of like how Kazuha's clan fell into ruin) and she was sent away to avoid the subsequent fall out by her parents?

Wanting the best for their daughter, maybe they even completed a trial of sorts and begged for Cloud Retainer to take in Shenhe as a disciple in order for her to be strong. Now after all these years of being away with an adeptus, eating adepti food, and her family faction gone she could feel like she has no real place to return too but still yearns for that time in her life when she was with her family.

But maybe she still feels a sort of attachment or loyalty to the clan, or at the very least has a soft spot for Chongyun because they grew up together. Well assuming that Xingqiu's assessment that maybe she dislikes him for hurting someone she is close to is correct. If her and Chongyun's voicelines reveal that they are close/family, that could actually be the case with Chongyun often being teased by XQ.

Also maybe her hair turned white from the stress of it all or is a result of her difficult training, but from what is being implied so far her hair used to be completely black. I also think that maybe her eyes were dark in color originally too but maybe specifically changed after she began consuming the divine herbs and dew because her eyes are really unique. They're so opal-like and look like they reflect different colors depending on the light, not to mention the white pupils.

There aren't too many characters with unique eyes in this game and when they do there's usually an explanation for it: Kaeya's from Khaenri'ah, the Archons are Archons, and Hu Tao well....... idk man, Mihoyo explain why her pupils are like that lmao. I love it but I have so many questions about that.

Anyway that summarizes my thoughts so far, that will either be right, not too far off, or completely off and we'll learn more the closer we get to 2.4's release date. What do you guys think her backstory will end up being? How do you think she will play into the main storyline with Lantern Rite around the corner?

It's looking like we will have to fight Osial again and it would be so cool if we could do a fight where, like before, throughout the fight the adepti grant us boons to help fight and Shenhe's adeptus-like build could also grant us one!

(TLDR: I think that the branch family Shenhe came from fell into ruin and after doing some sort of trial, they asked an adeptus to take in their daughter in order for her to escape the fall out (75). Also she might help with fighting Osial like how they did in the Liyue Archon Quests)

#genshin impact #genshin #genshin impact theories #theory #shenhe #cloud retainer #adeptus #adepti #chong tingyan #xingqiu #liyue #liyue harbor

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the-hydroxian-artblog · 3 years

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Hi, I watched your stream today and your cannons and comic pages look hella cool, is their somewhere I can read up on them and learn more?

Hi, thanks! Honestly, this is basically the place. Beside the webcomic itself (pinned post, also on deviantart), you can kinda just look up any character in the Search/Tags on this blog and just... scroll backward. Trust me, some of these characters have posts with lore bits, old and new, stretching back very very far.

A good starting point is this masterlist with link to character tags. Click on whatever interests you! Sticks and Shadow are good picks that aren't too deep, while Tikal's is... really long. Good fuckin luck getting to the bottom lmao

seriously though Thanks a BUNCH for your interest!! It's greatly appreciated.

#FAQ

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ganondoodle · 4 years

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yr brain? galaxy level. i wanna hear all ur lore and stuff

you know what ? im gonna write the basic plot for soogas backstory here now too-

- his parents were both sheikah soldiers serving the royal family, they were nearly never home so he barely even knew them and was pretty much living on his own from a young age on

- they both died while on a mission far away, but that didnt change much for him other than him having to find a way to earn money himself now

- when he was a teenager he was recruited by the royal family (he wanted to tho) which is also where he met Hibiki (my only real zelda Oc .. sorry gotta involve them now- this is how they look, although they are older here than when sooga first met them

i think i forgot to post this on tumblr lmao; anyway they are an artist and a bit older than sooga)

- since they were both outcasts with no relatives that cared about them they quickly became friends (tho it was def more one sided at first bc Hibiki is a way more extroverted ) tho Hibiki has been a bit longer in the army so they rarely went on missions together and only hung out during breaks or when they had both time off

- even after years of training they both stayed in the lower ranks of the army and never managed to climb to a higher one, part of the reason was that Hibiki didnt do a good job of being a spy, not bc they were detected, they just never had much information to report for some reason and Sooga always defended them when they got bullied by higher ups for it (you know how he threatens ppl) which in turn made him less liked and got him almost kicked out once (and yes, Hibiki did have a crush on Sooga but he never realized that even tho they made it REALLY obvious)

- you know the story how link got appointed as zeldas bodyguard ? with him deflecting a laser from a malfunctioning guardian to protect the princess ? yeah, so in my hc, while he did deflect it it didnt straight up hit the guardian back but rather was simply redirected and although Hibiki tried to pull Sooga away it still hit the left side of his face which is how he got that big af scar and lost his eye

- he survived and of course Hibiki was there to take care of him whenever they could, but the more time went on while he recovered it was made clear that the higher ups wanted to kick him out of the army after his wound healed bc they didnt think he was fit to fight anymore missing an eye (thats what they said but it was pretty obvious they just wanted a reason to get rid of him)

- Hibiki reassured Sooga they would do everything they could to convince them otherwise bc they knew that all he ever wanted to do is be a strong and respected soldier serving the royal family, but who would listen to the worst spy in the whole army .. he got kicked out anyway of course and was forced to work as a farmer (more like help other farmers really)

- from then on Hibiki was trying to be a better spy, so they could earn enough respect to maybe get the army to welcome Sooga back into their ranks

- but one day when Sooga returned from some field work he noticed a new grave at the corner of the village, and asked who died, it took some time for him to find out it was Hibiki who fell in battle bc after they left the village they never returned so the other villagers forgot even their name, the army brought their body back into the village since they were borne there and didnt have any living relatives

- that was what pushed his resentment for the kingdom and the other sheikah over the edge really, he stole some ancient hidden away sheikah scrolls from the elder of the village and used them to teach himself some techniques ... or at least TRIED to, the only one he was able to manage was a half functional clone, which he used to fake his death and live a live in the shadows, staying away from settlements out of fear of beign recognized

- he made his way into the gerudo desert where he never went to before, and in a cold night snuk undetected into the yiga hideout in the search for shelter since he wasnt equipped for that kind o extreme weather .. tho he didnt realize what he just did

- in the morning he was found after all and, understandably, attacked bc wth how did that guy even get in here ?? after he managed to survive for pretty long given the circumstances, he tried to flee but was stopped by master kohga himself, and while kohga was monologing about .. stuff, Sooga realized this might be his chance to live a proper life again and that pretty close to what he always wanted, so he promptly asks to join them

- positively surprised kohga of course cant just accept him into the clan like that, i mean Sooga was wearing sheikah clothing and got UNDETECTED into their hideout and took a nap there for several hours before being found, thats suspicious as hell

- after being put through several tests and challanges he is accepted into the clan after all-

- now fast forward post calamity (just a few years tho) the topic of Soogas origins comes up and he tells kohga alot but is interrupted bc koh ask him if the friend he was talking about was “a kinda weird artist” ... turns out Hibiki died in a clash with the yiga clan and ... was killed by kohga himself.

- Hibiki always carried a sketchbook in a bag around with them, and the clan took it after their death bc they thought it might contain useful info, it didnt, but since the sketches in it where pretty good they kept it anyway even if it was only half readable since it got soaked in blood

- that is a reveal that tested soogas loyalty to the clan like nothing else could (everyone in the clan including kohga, was expecting him to turn against them again, but were still waiting for him to actually betray the clan)

- sooga didnt turn on them tho, reason was, he managed to seperate the pages of the sketchbook that were stuck together from blood and discovered finely detailed art of the hideout, of its interior too and even of kohga as well

- Hibiki never had much info to tell their superiors bc they snuk around the hideout when on a mission but never with the goal to rat the clan out. they secretly admired kohga and the clan, even wanted to join them for a long time, but never got to do it bc they didnt want to leave Sooga behind but also .. they were afraid to tell him bc he was so focused on becoming a good sheikah soldier they were sure he wouldnt feel the same; they were torn between wanting to join the yiga but afraid of destroying their friendship with sooga ..

when they got into that fatal fight with the clan, kohga didnt even attack them with the intend to kill and they could have easily dodged or parried the hit, the reason they didnt was, ironically, bc they were so stunned by admiration of seeing their idol right in front of them they didnt move a muscle until it was too late...

this got longer than i thought, maybe i went into too much detail here, but anyway this is a summary of the backstory i came up with for Sooga, it doesnt end here tho, this is more like the story of how sooga became part of the yiga; after all of this comes alot more tho it wouldnt make much sense to add that here too xD

sorry for the long af post, i hope its somewhat understandable ;__;

#ganondoodles answers #headcannons #zelda #botw #sooga #long post #and thank you #;__;#i know i answer way too few asks here #but be sure i always read and appreciate them #<3

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nat-20s · 4 years

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i woke up at 4:30 in the morning with this messy meta about the comparative horror styles of welcome to nightvale vs the magnus archives and how i like them both very much this is not a one is better than the other post because they’re DIFFERENT but also why, personally, nightvale has freaked me out more than TMA (the magnus archives- im gonna use the abbreviation from now on and in scientific papers u gotta ESTABLISH the acronym and it’s actually kind of annoying bc they’ll establish it ONCE in the abstract and then never say what XJFEFJDOSM or whatever stands for again so if ur like wait WHAT was that again u gotta scroll all the way back up and it’s a whole thing but I digress) and it has to do with WORLDBUILDING and FRAMING DEVICES and USE OF SECOND PERSON and only a little bit how if a character unironically says “innit” i automatically can’t take them seriously. Anyway it’s stuck in my head so you know I had to make it your problem. Also I’m putting this under a read more bc fjsdjlks holy shit this is gonna get LONG and RAMBLY and D E E P L Y nerdy

WORLDBUILDING, FRAMING DEVICES, AND (THE USE OF) YOU IN MANGUS AND NIGHTVALE

Part A: whose universe is it anyway? Welcome to horror where the lore is made up and the logic doesnt matter

so I am not the first or last to compare (/maybe wanna crossover a little) the worlds of

wtnv (welcome to nightvale) and TMA and like for good reason bc in many ways they feel very similar but in TMA it’s like What the FUCK is going on with all of these horrors and nightmarish scenarios I am FREAKED out where as WTNV treats it’s horrors as typically mundane which

A: plays into why when WTNV is like “remember how we’re a horror :)” it’s like OH SHIT bc if Jon Archivist is scared you’re like well yeah it’s scary out there but if CECIL PALMER, general attitude of a peppy cheerleader when facing terrors beyond imagination, is scared, you KNOW shit is FUCKED

B: isn’t entirely accurate, because I don’t actually feel like they are set in the same world. here’s where things get sticky when it comes to realities and whatnot but I do wanna stress that yes I know WTNV and TMA are both works of fictions BUT I would personally say that

TMA is set in a parallel universe: a reality that’s similar to our own but also distinctly separate from anything that we, the audience, can witness but never participate in

WTNV is set in a hidden universe: it is set in our (the listeners) own reality, and is done in such a way that it feels like if you looked hard enough for it or if you just had a bout of bad luck or if you happen to drive down a certain road in a long stretch of US desert (side note: if there’s any real life place nightvale would be set in it’s definitely new mexico have you ever been in new mexico it’s called land of ENCHANTMENT for a reason if I drove into new mexico and drove back out a few days later and like THIRTY YEARS had passed I’d be like yeah that tracks) that you could end up in the reality of nightvale. Who’s to say there’s not a faceless old woman secretly living in your house? Are you sure there’s nothing odd in your mirror? Who can ever be sure time is working correctly?

Which brings me to

Part B: You(yes, you!)’ve Been Framed!

Listen. I fucking love a good framing device. Every time a podcast is like “here’s why the events of the story are recorded in the world of the story” I go bonkers in yonkers that shit SLAPS. TMA and WTNV both do this, but (at least up to ep 176 of TMA, this whole fuckin essay could still be blown out the water) TMA’s framing device doesn’t account for an audience, where as WTNV’s the audience is a core component

the framing device of TMA is that these spooky stories are being recorded by an archivist in order to have an audio version of written statements. Cool! It tells the audience why these recordings exist, and why they’re episodic. Later in the story, the tapes begin to spontaneously show up because of Spooky Reasons that have yet to be Fully Revealed, but it still isn’t for an audience. When Jon Archivist records these tapes, they’re basically being recorded for a Void. Yes, the tapes are originally for a potential researcher to listen to, but that ain’t you chief. You are not part of the narrative (so far at least! Again, maybe the audience will be brought into the story when it’s revealed What’s Up with the spontaneous tapes, but so far nah), there’s no in universe explanation for why you personally are listening to these stories. You aren’t present in the story, in the framing device, so you are not a part of that world.

The framing device of WTNV is that you are tuning into the community radio of a small desert town, Nightvale, that you are a part of. After all, if you are tuning into something local, you’re strongly implied to be local. Thus, we have a framing device that explains both why it’s recorded AND why you’re listening. The audience is absolutely involved in the narrative rather than a simple spectator. Cecil Palmer is not recording into a Void, he’s talking to listeners of which you are a part of. (side note: this makes nightvale liveshows SUPER fun if u get an opportunity to go to one I HIGHLY recommend it bc while there’s not ‘audience participation’ in the classic sense of like magic or comedy acts the narrative IS constructed in a way that you feel less like a witness of a story and more of a participant like the one I went to most of us pulled our legs onto out chair bc oh SHIT maybe there IS an escaped librarian under your chair making a grab for your feet SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF IS FUN AS HELL YALL)

These framing devices are enforced and enhanced upon by who the “you” in a narrative is.

In TMA, when there’s a “you” being referred to, when there’s a listener, it’s usually an in universe character. When there’s lines like “i’m sorry, that’s not what you came here to listen to” it’s not referring to you personally, it’s talking to Jon Archivist or Gertrude Archivist or Insert Archival Assistant. When TMA does use a more general “you”, it’s still in universe rather than the external listening to audience. You can include yourself as part of that general you, but it’s not inherently built into the narrative. If you want to distance yourself, you can also do that. You are not automatically in this world, even if much of it feels repeatable and/or similar

WTNV sometimes uses you to refer to an in universe character, because conversations do happen, but in the episodes where it’s like LMAO THIS IS A HORROR, the “you” and general second person is actively both discussing a known character and the listener personally. One of the most recent episodes, ep 171 “Go to the Mirror?” is a BRILLIANT example of this, where Cecil is simultaneously discussing himself and his experiences AND you as well. There’s something he can only see in the mirror, something with such sharp claws, on his shoulders, but it’s also something you personally can only see in the mirror, something on your shoulder. You are not exempt from the story, you can’t be exempt from the story, because you’ve always been a part of it. (Also side note go to the mirror is SO fuckign good it made my heart fuckin POUND the amount of times that despite knowing it was fiction I looked over my shoulder so many times. I know a shit ton of people listened to WTNV in like 2012/13 and dropped off and felt guilty and never caught up again but like. Catch up on nightvale it’s good for body and soul and also Cecilos just keep winning)

WAY too long; didn’t read: to me personally while I LOVE both TMA and WTNV, WTNV is scarier to be because TMA feels like a story that you’re bearing witness to (also thank god british people aren’t real and were made up for the Peppa Pig Cinematic Universe), WTNV feels not just like a story that you could be in but actively already are and that makes things SPOOKY

Also this isn’t related to the essay but shout out to whoever first decided that horror narrators should have nice even voices we really all be soothed by some grisly ass stories the amount of people that fall asleep to WTNV/TMA is WILD

#wtnv #tma #this essay is for me and me alone #and it's basically like go to the mirror? that wild sun of a gun sure is SCARY

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comicteaparty · 5 years

Text

November 13th-November 19th, 2019 Reader Favorites Archive

The archive for the Reader Favorites chat that occurred from November 13th, 2019 to November 19th, 2019. The chat focused on the following question:

When reading a new webcomic for the first time, what qualities are more likely to turn you into a long-term fan?

carcarchu

Definitely creativeness and how unique the overall concept is. If i think i can pretty much guess how the story is going to play out I'm less inclined to stick around and tune in every week (though i might queue up a bunch of chapters and binge it if i still like it enough). If a story keeps me on my toes and there's cliffhangers every chapter it makes me want to come back every week to find out what's going to happen next and that consistency makes me want to stay until the very end. Also i tend to read mostly romances so if i really like the ship that the comic is pushing i'm much more likely to keep reading it

Cronaj

For me, it's character development. While the art style or plot concept might draw me to read a comic initially, it is the characters that make me stay. If I feel like the characters have realistic enough motives or emotional journeys, I start to see them as real people. I cry with them, laugh with them, and mourn with them.

Batichi

I need to get a good idea of the 'hook' in the first 20 or so pages. I really need to know if the comic itself knows what it wants to do before it's really started. It can be through set up or character intros or world building like Chirault http://chirault.sevensmith.net/, or even a good random encounter like in Ghost Junk http://ghostjunksickness.com/ to get me into the action really fast, or starting In Media Res like O Sarilho http://sarilho.net/en/ . I need to know the creator knows where the story is going in some capacity or I'm worried the comic will quickly stagger into a hiatus. Technical parts can still be a bit wonky as I know from experience most creators need some practice, but I still need an idea they're getting to (without having to read the about page)

Most comics I've read that kept me going always seem to have really well thought out starting points that continue all the way till the end.

keii4ii

I look at how the narrative treats lawful characters. I usually have a hard time relating to chaotics, regardless of how well they're written (I may come to care about a chaotic character, but I'm gonna need something else to keep me reading until that happens). If the narrative portrays lawfuls as interesting and worthy of attention, and gives them compelling arcs that let them shine, yeah, that's probably my jam! Related to above though not the same: I love it when slow, quiet moments are given importance and handled well. (Related since quiet and lawful overlap?) Not just downtime so people can catch their emotional breath before the next set of busy scenes... but important enough to be seen as the focus of their own, if not of the story! This should show quite clearly in my own comic if I'm doing my job right...

keii4ii

Sombulus (http://sombulus.com/) by @Delphina is a notable example of treating lawful characters with respect, even though the comic as a whole has this wacky chaotic fun vibe. When I was first making my way through the archive, I greatly enjoyed the first adventure with townspeople turning into literal walking fruits, bread, etc. But then the trio went to talk to Tenge, and I was relieved that the narrative didn't "side with" the chaotic, irresponsible (though still 100% lovable -- I love you too, Astyr!!) main character. The comic managed to portray Tenge as being uptight without feeling unfair to me, a lawful. That is SO rare to see! (Sombulus as a whole does a great job at treating characters from the entire lawful-chaotic spectrum with both fairness and fondness. It is one of my favorite things about the comic. )

Delphina

(I saw I got pinged so I scrolled up to see what the question was, but I went too far and I thought you were saying Tenge was your favorite magical boy and I was dyiinnnggg @keii4ii )

keii4ii

(Tenge is totally my favorite magical boy too, now that you put it that way )

Delphina

Thank you! And thanks for the compliment on the lawful/chaotic dichotomy. Balancing how those kinds of personalities work together and how they're both strong in their own ways is really fun for me, and I'm glad it's showing in Sombulus!

DanitheCarutor

What can keep me reading depends on the comic. The hook can either be character interaction, the character's themselves, the setting, or the plot. With characters, how the they handle themselves and one another, how they think, how they talk, how they walk, how they DaNCe, how TheY LOVE! Lmao! But nah, I'm really big into character details, which individualizing characters to the extent that I like is rare in comics so I settle for standard stuff. As long as I can distinguish them, and they're interesting, I'm chill. Setting? A super fun thing for me, I love it when creators go batshit with their setting lore and world building. Of course even when the setting just pure aesthetic, when it comes to it being the hook for me as long as it's weird and crazy, something a little fantastical or cosmic I'm digging it! Plot. This is the one I least care about... as weird as that sounds. The story can be an insane mess as long as it's a fun and enjoyable mess, but when story does hook me it is usually an interesting, super intriguing take on a preused concept either with the use of visuals or writing. (Which every concept has been used, originality is technically dead) Some examples are: The Prometheite https://tapas.io/series/Prometheite - A sad Frankenstein story about a woman losing her partner to a fatal illness. Hookteeth https://tapas.io/series/Hookteeth - A lovecraftian/cosmic horror romance with merfolk. (Not much to say about this one, Lovecraftian stories in themselves are weird and awesome imo.) SUPERPOSE https://tapas.io/series/SUPERPOSE - A sci-fi comic heavy on character interaction, and looks to be something other than the usual in space, on a different planet, or a story where the sci-fi is just a setting. (To be honestly, I'm mostly into how the story is presented visually. It feels very theatrical.)

Sometimes I stick with a comic purely for the aesthetics, I'm a sucker for eye candy. LIke Seluda https://tapas.io/series/seluda - A normal-ass high school story, but the visual presentation is SOmething else! Very 60's-70's drug trip, the style of speech used by the MC is very surreal, if not a little long winded at times. I would chalk my interest in this comic up to characters and art, but mostly art.

keii4ii

Related: Astyr supplying the non-sequitur lines to keep that one machine going was also a favorite moment of mine. This is probably just me but I found it genuinely heartwarming to see him able to contribute simply by being his chaotic self, even without his magic. @Delphina

FeatherNotes

Honestly character design and a memorable interaction are easy hooks for me. I do like a good investment in world building however, it really helps for easy immersion and definitely makes it more enjoyable to read! The moment I see a creator indulge in some good backgrounds and lore, I'm pretty much sold! Phantomarine and o sarilho are really good examples of all those things http://www.phantomarine.com/ https://sarilho.net/en/

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I read a really wide variety of comics. I’m not sure I can pinpoint exactly what trait it is that hooks me, besides just ‘good writing’. I like comics that have believable, relatable characters, well thought-out plots, and good character development. I’m immediately turned away by heavy reliance on tropes, stale, cookie-cutter characters, or achingly slow progression. If it’s well written and well-paced, there’s a good chance I’ll stick around and keep reading. Also, a bit opposite of what Keiii was saying above- I love a good rogue. The better the chaotic character, the more likely I am to be drawn in. I love stories that explore the moral grey area, that have villains with good redemption arcs, and have heroes that are deeply flawed but grow and learn. If the hero is always 100% on the good side and the villain is always 100% on the bad side, I’m more likely to lose interest.(edited)

FeatherNotes

Ohh yes agreed on that

keii4ii

@Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) I believe we may be looking at two sides of the same coin! I wouldn't be interested in reading about the Honorable and Immaculate Lawful Heroes Against The Forever Evil Baddies, either. Greyness -- or to describe it differently, "stories not picking a side" -- is something I like seeing as well, just through a more lawful lens. Back to the Sombulus example, it's one thing to portray a noble lawful hero. But Tenge was portrayed as being uptight, without making it feel like a jab at lawful readers. He has room for growth, but so does everyone else in the story. Reading Sombulus I feel like he can learn to become a happier person without becoming someone else. Lawful doesn't mean perfect nor boring, and that's something I really appreciate seeing.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That’s very true! I like when lawful characters aren’t perfect, though I gravitate more towards chaos, lol.

keii4ii

(Tienar may not be my tippy top favorite Ashes character (not yet sure who my fave is!) but I am definitely partial to him and his lawfulness. )

Pakky

i love chaotic lawful characters. one of my favorite characters was from a long dead webcomic called destress where the main character was lawful but also psycho. it was pretty fun to watch

sssfrs

I dont read a lot of comics but I love loveable rogue characters

FeatherNotes

Love me those chaotic stupid types too My comic's main char is one of them and it definitely makes for interesting interactions!

sssfrs

I like the dynamic my characters have. The leader of the group is smart and responsible, the second in command is smart and kind of lazy, and everyone else is completely chaotic, evil, or stupid

So the leader is herding cats

Glowbat (Aloe)

I think what really grabs my attention and chains it to the radiator usually is when there's a noticeable overarching thesis or themes to the comic that the creator is mulling over via the story. Usually as a result it really tightens up the whole story and seeing characters of all kinds representing different stances on the thesis and acting in ways directly reflecting that is neat.

keii4ii

^ Cohesiveness!!!!

Glowbat (Aloe)

Yeah!

Cronaj

I think it's interesting how most of us are drawn in with character development, even if the specific types of characters we enjoy are different.

keii4ii

^ Yeah, I fully admit that just because a character is well written/believable, doesn't guarantee I'll be invested in that character. I definitely have my types, as well as a horribly narrow and specific taste range

Glowbat (Aloe)

also the other thing that really draws me in is if you put a hot character with pointy shark teeth in I will read the entire comic always

Cronaj

I think my taste range is pretty broad with the characters I like, narrow af in regards to art styles

It's a horrible affliction really

@Glowbat (Aloe) lol, do you read Castle Swimmer?

Glowbat (Aloe)

...maybe

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think what hooks me, when I start reading new webcomics, is how diverse and interesting the cast is and I think I'm more likely to stay on a superficial level if not everyone is conventionally attrative. Other than that, strong character writing and strong motivations for the characters that are already there in the beginning.

Cronaj

Character development!

Deo101

Things that keep me around are like... If I can read it, honestly. Like if i can follow whats happening consistently then i can get into it. Also! Depending on how it treats women, lgbt people and disabled people really makes or breaks my overall enjoyment. I like character driven stories most but I can enjoy other things and get into them, its nit very consistent for me

All about clarity and respect

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh, yeah, the author respecting their characters and / or groups of people is a big must for me.

So I agree with Deo 100% on that

Deo101

Oh, and also how much they respect their readers and trust that i can follow things without holding my hand through it!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

^^^that too! I am not a fan of over-explaining(edited)

Cronaj

I will say, the way female characters are portrayed does affect my overall enjoyment as well. For example, if a woman is so boring and placeholder (i.e. just there to help a man or be a romantic interest), as I like to call, suffering from "girl" syndrome, I really hate it. This is why I can't watch a lot of anime, because often the female characters don't matter.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also, @keii4ii I think you may be the first person ever to say you like Tienar!

keii4ii

omg noooo Tienar I WILL ROOT FOR YOU, MY EAGLE

It's not that I agree with him a lot. I just really appreciate that he's there

Cronaj

But yeah, if a comic can't pass the simple Bechdel Test....

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hahaha, well, he’s definitely There

keii4ii

Re: the balance of clarity vs not over-explaining, that can be tricky!!

I too don't like over-explaining, but what I find to be just clear enough may be unclear to some, or too confusing,

Deo101

Yep :// so that one is really not on the author so much as just "if I dont know what's up or if I feel its dragging on i wont like it"

Jts not the kind of thing that you can do right for everyone

keii4ii

Agreed

Deo101

What my indicators for "is this respectful?" "Is this clear?" Etc are gonna be wayyyy different from other people's so its hard to say exactly what keep me reading

keii4ii

This is actually something I've been thinking about a lot. For Korean webcomics, the comment section generates a lot of engagement, and one result is that reading comprehension becomes a group activity. Particularly observant comments become highest voted, so even less observant readers can follow along by reading the comic and the highest voted comments. I feel that makes some stories more accessible than they would've been without that comment section culture.

Deo101

I wish that were commonplace lol

keii4ii

ME TOO

Their comment section is active enough that one time, a reader asked for toilet paper (they were stuck in a public restroom stall at Incheon airport, and only had like 20 minutes before their flight) and they actually got TP in time

But yeah, it's not just the activity level that I'm envious of. It's the group effort reading comprehension

I value it as a reader (I am not the most observant), and want it as a creator

Deo101

Yeah wow that sounds awesome and would also help me SO MUCH because I struggle a lot with following things...

keii4ii

OMFG

Before reading the sentence to the end

Deo101

Remembering, knowing what's going on or who is talking, picking up on subtle hints... Can't do that lol

keii4ii

I thought you were going to say "because I struggle a lot with public restrooms with no TP" sorrryyyyy

Cronaj

Hahahaha

Same

Deo101

Hahahahhaha

I usually just ask whoever is next to me if that happens

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I wish western audiences were that engaged. Usually the top voted comments I see are either puns (fair, because puns are awesome) or thirsty (less nice, but if it’s a thirsty pun I admit to laughing out loud sometimes)(edited)

Deo101

Yeah same lee :/

I've been getting like .1% of my readers commenting and ive been like. Is my writing just not conducive to an interactive environment? This convo should probably move out of reader favorites. Creator babble it is! Lemme go over there w it

keii4ii

There was this thriller webcomic in which the MC was trying to assassinate 4 corrupt politicians for personal grudges. He already got three of them. The last one receives a large, round-shaped flower pot as a gift from his supporters. 3-4 weeks later (IRL I mean), it is revealed that the third target/victim was cut up into pieces, but they couldn't find his head. One reader pointed out "THE FLOWER POT!!!!!!" and I would not have been able to make that connection without that comment. I mean the flower pot thing was revealed the next update anyway, but it was nice to have that comment, and another highest voted comment even specificed "go to [this specific update] for the scene in which he receives the pot"

(The head was in the pot)

Deo101

Thats so fun

Cronaj

Oh my God... It's brilliant

DanitheCarutor

@Pakky221 Distress by Blankd, right? I loved reading that comic back in the day! It's sad that the comic got discontinued, but I have to say I'm enjoying the WIP work for the stuff the creator is working on now. Regarding the conversation about characters, I think I'm the niche person in the crowd. Unless the character themselves or the situation they're in is an obvious mouthpiece thing for someone venting their racism, sexism, homophobia, whatever political views, etc. I don't reeeeally care how characters are treated or used? I've always seen them as tools, even in childhood I was disillusioned about seeing them as real people, so it's hard for me to get emotionally invested in how the author treats them. I don't even care about my own characters outside of portraying their problems, personalities, and situations decently. Probably not a good mindset to have, and it'll probably dox me some points on the "good creator" scale, but it's just my thing I guess. Lol

Bland characters are a pain, though! If you can legit replace your character with a rock, and it would have the same impact or be a livelier option, then... that's kinda sad. (Unless your character has some kind of legit issues relating to appearing bland, or they're sort of the butt of a joke.)

Pakky

@DanitheCarutor o: i don't have any way to follow the creator. the blankd tumblr has been inactive for so long but i agree. Bland characters are my least favorite. There's a lot of comics out there that have some pretty plain main characters that are realllllly hard to relate to.

DanitheCarutor

Aah! Blankd's Twitter is still active, they're working on a game right now, and they've done a few -ahem- adult comics since stopping Distress. https://twitter.com/blankd_ec

Yeah, with bland characters I'd like to think the author is trying to make that type of Sue that anyone can put themselves in? But it ends up turning into the opposite because they're so dead on arrival that no one can relate.(edited)

snuffysam

kind of related to the idea of "i should have an idea of where the story is going at the start", but one other thing that keeps me reading is "the story gets there". like if the comic opens with an old man telling a young knight that she has to travel across the land and slay a dragon, cool! if i continue reading the comic for six months and they're still in the same conversation, i'm probably dropping it! like i get that comics update at different rates, but if you have like one page every two weeks you should probably make sure something interesting happens in the first 20 pages. and the sorts of comics i absolutely love are when, like, the stories actually move forward. like, if i can re-read a comic and feel nostalgia for the earlier scenes, that's how i really turn into a superfan.

Capitania do Azar

The group effort in this chat already pointed some very important points: that not all characters are conventionally attractive (tho I like that, it's not something that would make me stop reading if it were absent), well developed women and LGBT+ characters, and characters with strong motivations that are apparent, make sense in the context of the story and are known to us from the begining. That said, if the comic consistently treats me, as a reader, as if I were not very smart (by constantly overexplaining things, pointing again and again at the obvious, making me go through walls of text because world is more important than character and you need to read a bible to get through chapter 1), I'll probably not engage for too long. I gotta say that the visual style is also a very important factor. I am willing to look through what I consider to be minor issues (like small inconsistencies in drawing/scenario or characters being offmodel) for as long as it doesn't interfere with my immersion in the story. However, some visual styles are a big no-no for me, and I discover that I can't look past those and enjoy a story

Q @CecilieQMT making WAYFINDERS

This chat is very good - also for a first-time webcomic creator. As a reader, I'm almost a little ashamed to say that I'm very picky. Not because I don't like comics, because I LOVE COMICS, but becase I'm so goddamn busy all the time. Everything is constantly competing for attention, and for a comic to be able to hold that attention, it needs to be something extra special. For me, that's an engaging and developed visual style, a plot that gets going quickly, and a sense that the story has been planned. I love that so many different comics exist, I just can't read all of them and also be a creator.

RebelVampire

As a reader, I'm almost a little ashamed to say that I'm very picky. Not because I don't like comics, because I LOVE COMICS, but because I'm so goddamn busy all the time.

I think that's an important sentiment all creators should remember. People are busy. And like, not even just comic creators. I'm talking about basically everyone. Which means good and bad things. Bad thing is that it makes creating a highly competitive market because people are going to be super picky just for lack of time to be un-picky. But the good thing is it means the people who do choose to read your comic are picking it out of all the other comics that they could read with their limited time. And that right there is pretty special.

Cronaj

@RebelVampire That really is a beautiful sentiment.

@Q @CecilieQMT making WAYFINDERS I am also very picky about comics, which is part of the reason I'm so picky about my own work. This is why if an artist doesn't seem professional enough for me, I don't want to waste my time reading the comic, because maybe the writing is unprofessional too. I know I'm missing out on a lot of good content, but as you said, I don't have the time to read a comic and be disappointed when I'm further into it.

keii4ii

I too am picky about stuff, and it's not even because of quality. My tastes are a far bigger factor. Just because I don't read something doesn't mean I think it's bad!!

Cronaj

That is also true

Tastes also play a huge role into why I read or don't read something, not just the "quality" of the art

kayotics

I don’t think I’ve answered the question yet but I’ve been lurking. The first thing to grab me that might turn me into a long term fan is the art style. I don’t think the art is the most important factor but I need to be able to follow along, and if it’s not a style I’m interested in I probably won’t start it. The second thing is the writing in general. I like characters the most, more than world building. So interesting interactions are where I get the most enjoyment. The story could go almost anywhere but if I don’t like the main character I really won’t like the story. So the thing that will keep me going the most is a likeable main cast. And I don’t mean flawless, because that gets boring, but characters that I enjoy seeing fail, and then pick themselves back up again.

DanitheCarutor

So I slept in it and realized when I was talking about plot for my answer, it was actually themes... because I didn't talk about anything relating to plot. Lol shows how professional I am. With pickiness, is it weird that I'm more picky now that I'm jobless than when I was working fulltime? When I was pulling 10-11 hour work days I was literally a drifter, so they never had anything for me to do. I would find anything I could get my hands on to make the time go by faster, so I read as many webcomics as I could. Now I have all day to catch up drawing pages, trying to find a new job, helping my mom with chores, and doing obligatory family bs. I also want to try making some kind of revenue off my drawings/comic, so I've been trying to get in the groove of doing more things. (Which is difficult because pages take almost all my drawing time.) It's hard to find the time to sit down and read a comic now since staying productive is mandatory. Uuuh Tl;dr: I can empathize with being picky due to lack of time.

Q @CecilieQMT making WAYFINDERS

THat's the creator struggle, right? In creating, so much time is spent creating, that it can be hard to find time to consume

Q @CecilieQMT making WAYFINDERS

Ooh, yay!

Deo101

I think also as creators, we tend to have a hard time -if not an impossible one- seperating our work from what we read. I Know I tend to look at other things as a learning experience in some way, either thinking "how would i do this different?" Or "what about this can i apply to my work?" Which makes reading a different, more tiring experience

We may tend to* this might just be me i will admit

DanitheCarutor

@Q @CecilieQMT making WAYFINDERS It is! Sometimes I get so focused on the creating aspect that I forget to do all the other important things like advertising, socializing, promoting other people. Like playing video games, reading comics is an absolute luxury time waster so I don't do it as often as I could anymore.

Aw man! I do that too, Deo! Although it's something I actually enjoy? Something about analyzing a piece of media, and applying what you would do with it is fun.

Deo101

Oh I absolutely do enjoy it! But it takes more time and is draining for me

Cronaj

Definitely makes it harder to enjoy what we're reading

DanitheCarutor

Aauh yeah, that's true. Analyzing does take a lot of brain power and energy.

Deo101

Yeah :/ so to find a story i can really get immersed in is incredibly rare now...

Cronaj

I do this with books I read too(edited)

It's an awful habit

DanitheCarutor

Over analyzing everything is something I've been doing literally since childhood, so I'm used to it. My brain never shuts off unless I'm drawing.

Cronaj

I find myself wanting to rewrite other people's stories

Don't be like me

Deo101

I do it too and i think its just kind of how you think about things when you're a writer

DanitheCarutor

Pff oh no, I've done that too. Not so much now, but in elementary school whenever I watched a show or movie I hated, I would rewrite it.

Deo101

When you pick apart what you dont like or analyze what you do iy lets you apply those things to yiur own work. Its a valuable skill to have and i think its kind of automatic

Cronaj

Even my favorite authors of all time... I end up going back on a reread and wanting to change things that didn't work out so well

DanitheCarutor

It's a really good skill that not enough people have... at least my coworkers are pretty lacking in the critical thinking department. They say it's healthy to question, analyze, and long to improve.

Deo101

Some people are, and that's okay! Those are the people I hope are reading millennium ;)

Jk lol

DanitheCarutor

Lmao! Yeah, it's okay to be a person of simplicity, as long as they don't tell me the hyper-realistic Lion King remake is better than the original.

Deo101

Ahhahahahaha

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I analyse every format of story I consume automatically . Comics, books, movies, etc. I find that it doesn’t take me away from immersion, but it DOES take away my emotional investment. I’m enjoying the story plenty, but I’m less likely to feel attached to a character or be sad when they die. It’s a very rare story these days that will actually give me feelings over the fate of the characters.

FeatherNotes

I can totally see that too though, esp with the crazy amount of works being produced, you def have to do some curating in a sense to see where you will make that emotional investment too

DanitheCarutor

Aaah I get that with horror movies! Lol But in seriousness, I'm the same way for the most part. My immersion is perfectly intact (unless something stupid happens), but my care investment in characters does waver. Usually it's easier when the characters are really weird, and catch my eye, like the corpse man in Swiss Army Man. I got super invested for some reason when he learned how to walk, then when he died again because his friend wouldn't fart in front of him. But normally, nah I don't feel much, especially for death but my views on that are kinda skewed to begin with.(edited)

So I realize I'm really into surreal comedy, if a character can actually make me laugh I'm more invested in their wellbeing.

keii4ii

Analytical reading is great. Though I rarely find myself wanting to fix other people's stories. I have creative tunnel vision and genuinely have no desire to work on anything other than the OTP (One True Project)

Same goes to my own ideas really? I get ideas but auto-filter them out, as I have 0 desire to work on them.

Cronaj

You are blessed lol

Every five minutes, I'm sitting there trying to convince myself to work on ONLY ONE PROJECT AT A TIME.

"Oooh! That's a cool idea! I should E x P l O r E that!

kayotics

I try to not analyze shows or comics unless I REALLY love them or I find them boring and want to be interested in them. For example: I’ll analyze the hell out of Full Metal Alchemist because I ADORE it, but the analysis stage came much later after finishing the comic. If I’m not engaged with a series then I’ll analyze what would make me more interested. I hardly ever try to rewrite other people’s stories

Deo101

Yeah i dony try to rewrite its more of a "what about this didn't i like and how can i avoid doing that in my own work?"

FeatherNotes

ohhh yes agreed Deo

kayotics

Oh yeah definitely. I will sometimes think about that, but usually it’s if something is really bugging me

Deo101

Yeah I partly do it because people sometimes just don't take "idk i didnt really like it" for an answer and I gotta explain. Also its kinda like a puzzle and I like puzzles

kayotics

Oh, on the topic of the question: one other thing that will hook me is whether or not the writing is exciting. For example, I mentioned being bored by some comics, but that doesn’t mean I’m looking for action all the time. What I’m looking for is for there to be something to latch on to. The most mundane story about laundry could be interesting to me if it’s written in a way that engages me.

A really good example of engaging writing in a mundane story is probably Sakana? https://www.sakana-comic.com/ The characters just. Work in a fish stall. But the story holds my interest even in the quiet moments because it’s crafted in a way that keeps developing the characters.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can’t turn off my analysis mode. It just happens as I’m watching / reading in the background of my brain and there’s no control switch. Sometimes I wish there was so I don’t correctly predict the ending 1/4 of the way through and spoil it for myself. (I’m no longer allowed to make predictions along with my friends when we watch movies together).

Deo101

^^^^ SAME. BIG SAME.

My mom and sister are like that too so we all guess the ending and my dad gets lile >:( I Kno youre right and it's ruined now >:((

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But agreeing with the above, I don’t want to fix another person’s story. I’m just always asking ‘What made this scene so effective?’ and ‘what made this part not so effective?’. I also map writing patterns, formulas, and file away ‘tells’ in my head as I go.

Me and my friends all like to talk during movies: making snarky comments or predictions. I’m just no longer allowed to do the latter because I will ruin the ending. XD

Deo101

Ahahahahahaha

Yeah I can't go to theaters I've been shushed so much. But its so hard not to talk for me

FeatherNotes

that's a very important skill to have with analysing things to the point of deconstructing them in your own work and making more effective narratives too! it's good to be aware of the content that you consume and really understand what made the work speak/effect you the way it did. Honestly these conversations are much more enjoyable to have than just 'my fave character is that bc they are funny' and it ends there (no shade on simply enjoying things here tho! I def do the same) but yea! being aware to that degree is a good skill for writing

sssfrs

@Glowbat (Aloe) You should read my comc

I’m sorry I’m like this I’m just so focused on what I’m working on its the only thing in my whole brain right now.

You said you like stories with themes and my mind was like themes? my story has themes

keii4ii

Calm down man! XD Though I can relate to brain being 100% focused on your OTP (One True Project)

sssfrs

I love analyzing media. I get bored of reading or watching things really quickly if I feel like I’m starting to understand the central message. Or maybe bored isnt the right word- more like satiated? If the work is really cohesive and Ive gotten the overall message I feel like ive fully enjoyed the media and had a good time

Like analyzing it is enough and then reading is just bomus

bonus

I’m so sorry

FeatherNotes

it's okay to be really into your own work haha! love that passion to keep you going--!

also the OTP acronym is rly cute omg

sssfrs

One True Project I just realized you saidb that that is really cute

Like I said I stop reading if I feel like I have the gist of something(edited)

I think its cool that a lot of us are saying we analyze things all the way and were also making our own stuff like does working on making your own thing cause you to view the details of the construction of the story in a different way?

DanitheCarutor

Like, does being analytical make us construct our stories differently than others? If so I wouldn't say it does for myself, but my visuals tend to get way overly detailed. To the point where important stuff tends to get drowned out, which is something I've been trying to work on. <_<'

keii4ii

It would definitely help with self-editing/ revisions, for one thing.

I don't think you need to be analytical every time you consume a story, but it helps to be able to turn analytical mode on?

Deo101

yeah for me its kind of always on unfortunately. if not when im watching then definitely after having finished

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, turning it off is near impossible. Ah thinking about it, I guess being overly-analytical kiiinda affects my story? (If that's what sssfrs meant) I remember some readers who've said they go back and forth to connect plot details, and the guy who does Webcomic Relief did a super small review where he went nuts analyzing everything. Even down to the reason behind my use of medium. Since I like analyzing I guess I subconsciously made a comic that can be analyzed, or something. Or maybe it's not actually that deep.

keii4ii

That makes sense, though. That we make comics that can be enjoyed the way we enjoy other stories.

I'm not much of a theorizer, so my comic isn't really optimized for theorizing. Though some people have still managed to come up with really cool theories!

DanitheCarutor

Pff I think every piece of media has those theorizers, it's just fun to do for some no matter if they're analyzing some deep piece or Blues Clues. I imagine those types of fans are fun to watch as a creator whether your work is geared for analysis or not.

Oh uh, I forgot to mention. Let me know if I'm getting a little out there, or getting off topic too much. Socializing properly is still something I'm trying to work on, along with the etiquette.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I can’t turn off analysis mode either. It’s always running in the background.

sssfrs

I was saying more the other way around, like having experienced the process of creating a story, you think more about the work that goes into it and how the various pieces all come together in a different way than someone who's only ever consumed media linearly would be used to seeing it.

It could go the other way around too though that's interesting, then it's like "what drives people to make stories"?

RebelVampire

For me, there are three qualities that usually hook me in with a new comic. 1) An interesting premise. Not to say I think premises need to be unique, but it's more of a question is do I think it'll explore the premise in an interesting way. For an example, Maiden of the Machine https://maidenmachine.com/ It's not like steampunk is new or anything, but I really wound up liking the premise of it both being a romance and about high society politics with the steampunk setting. So, that drew me in a lot to keep reading. 2) A good balance of themes and story. I'm not a huge fan of comics that are more interested in exploring their themes over their story. I prefer stories where the narrative is the focus, and the theme feels like a natural consequence of the narrative. My example for this is actually the recent Week Long Bookclub comic Missing Pieces https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/missing-pieces/list?title_no=192867 I actually wasn't sure I was going to like it first, but I was super hooked once I started. There were lots of interesting themes to explore around death and revenge, but at the end, the story let me decide how to feel and focused on the narrative. 3) Theory-fodder stories. If there is lots of stuff to theorize about and that is easy to overanalyze based on the most miniscule of evidence, I'm pretty sold. This is the fact that really got me with Galebound http://www.galebound.com/ There were so many small hints and tidbits, both in the story and supplemental material, that I overread and overthought the heck out of this comic. I do wanna note, the things I look for and what hook me are arbitrary and based only on my personal preferences. There are a crap ton of objectively great webcomics out there that I have no interest in reading as a long term fan. Not cause they're bad, they just don't have things I'd personally enjoy reading in terms of being part of the comic's fandom.

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #reader favorites #comic tea party #ctp

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dragonairlairgiveaways · 6 years

Text

Thoughts on Let’s Go

So as someone who has beat the main game of Let’s Go Eevee (like I’ve said before I’ve played through Kanto so many times now. I can do it pretty much blindfolded.) I have thoughts both good and bad on it. There will be SPOILERS here so I advise you to scroll past if you’re new to Kanto especially but also if you’ve played through the region before but not here yet because there are some new things/changed details. ANYWAY:

PROS

I really love how expressive both your Partner Pokemon and following Pokemon are. Interacting with them is such a delight and makes me even more attached to my Pokemon.

Kanto is beautiful. Whilst I wish they’d kept more of the Savannah/grassland feel it had in past generations (because it made Kanto unique vs temperate Johto it shares its landmass with), the region feels so full, vibrant and alive.

I really love the gym re-designs, even if some are only subtle. I also love seeing the Gym Leaders and E4 with defined personalities. I was ESPECIALLY happy to be able to see Sabrina’s telekinesis in action thanks to the graphics we have now.

Pokemon distribution across Kanto is so much better than in past games and makes forming a balanced, structured team so much less of a nightmare. Same goes for the altered movesets.

Pokemon Tower. Oh God, the cutscene was so short, sweet and subtle but made me cry. It gave us the emotional attachment the older Kanto games missed out on.

I really appreciated the changes to important locations game-lore wise that made them more fitting. Pokemon Mansion for example made me super uncomfortable thanks to the additions of the cloning/testing equipment in the basement and the confirmation from Jessie & James that sweet old Mr Fuji is the same Dr Fuji that created Mewtwo.

It gets its own section because Cerulean Cave is BREATHTAKING design-wise and a lifesaver with the valuable respawning items hidden in the crystal dust on the floor.

I love the rival. He is an absolute sweetheart and I just want to hold and protect him.

Player! Character! Is! Expressive! No more thousand-yard stare in cutscenes.

Can Ultra Balls be this cheap in the regular games please?

Leaf/Green finally, canonically exists other than when chosen as the player in FRLG and my heart is filled with joy by this y’all don’t even know.

NPC Pokemon with nicknames show up with that nickname when spoken to, not with their species name and idk it’s such a small thing but makes me happy.

I really love how self-aware this game is in terms of how Pokemon plots go by talking about the E4 and people asking/speculating that they’ll come deal with the threat. Y’know given how in past games they’ve largely been suspiciously absent and left everything to a child.

The cutscenes in general are pleasant to look at/watch and don’t run in forever and are less frequent. They hit a good balance here I think.

Speaking of which, the ones that play before taking on the Legendary Birds/Mewtwo are INTENSE.

Pokemon Box in your bag is super convenient, I just wish it wasn’t just one big, huge box so I could organise better.

Getting to dress up my Partner Pokemon is precious.

Riding on Pokemon is great and there are some rideable choices that were a nice surprise.

The replacements for HMs are so silly and I love them.

I’m a shiny hunter so I think the new shiny hunting method is super fun and relatively easy depending on the Pokemon you’re hunting. Streaks are easy enough to build and avoid breaking and seeing the Pokemon with its shiny colouration in the overworld adds the little bit more of excitement to me.

Cinnabar finally has an obvious volcano on the map even if you can’t actually access it in game. (it’s not like you haven’t let us roam around active volcanoes before, Game Freak.)

I really like the torches in Victory Road? Lmao it’s such a minor thing but it makes it feel more... idk.. magnificent, I guess? Like it’s a manmade cavern. The final test. It feels more like it now with those and the changes to the puzzles.

Thank you for the random NPCs that will heal your Pokemon when you’re far from a city/town.

The spy NPC was great. I love her.

Rare spawns are a neat little mechanic. Area unknown in the Pokedex? LOL GUESS AGAIN.

Cons:

The big one: Only Kanto Pokemon. It’s a huge sticking point for me because it’s quite limiting and just... a tad annoying. I get this game was an experiment and with its success will likely come more Let’s Go side games but... it was still disappointing. Even if they couldn’t add all Pokemon from later gens, they could’ve at least added the prevolutions/evolutions of Kanto Pokemon that came later to give the region an expanded Pokedex and just added more diversity to the game. Lance having a Seadra really brought that point home for me when it literally has a DRAGON TYPE evolution he could’ve used.

Whilst the capture mechanic is fine I miss wild battles. If you need to grind especially it’s annoying because you have to burn through Pokeballs to get EXP. It would be nice to just be able to faint wild Pokemon.

The rideable flying Pokemon. I’d hoped for something more like the Soaring mechanic from ORAS but nope. You also have to go into the party menu to return the Pokemon to its ball to be able to move between gate/map areas. It would have been so much better if you could just press one of the buttons to do that so you didn’t have to go about constantly opening/closing menus.

Super sad Trainer Customisation is so limited. I’m pleased they kept the option for skintone choice but I wish we could at least change the eye/hair colour of the player character. What outfits we get to mix/match are cute I just wish there was more.

The lack of Abilities pains me. They added depth to the game both in and out of battle and I sorely missed them. (Hello yes, why is your Pokemon not getting paralysed after coming into contact with my Raichu? Oh right, Static isn’t a thing here.)

Getting Meltan itself isn’t hard even if you just briefly download Pokemon Go to get it. Getting Melmetal however? Good luck if you just play casually or not at all really with how the crate feature works.

I like that the Go Park exists but I’m sad it replaced the Safari Zone and that it doesn’t work in a similar fashion to Pal Park. Wasting Pokeballs on Pokemon I have already wasted them on to catch one already is kind of annoying.

You can’t ride the Legendary Birds and that is just straight up NONSENSE to me.

I wish we could play with/feed our other Pokemon, not just our partner. Pokemon Amie/Refresh is one of my favourite mechanics in the main games so I’m sad it’s limited to only our starter here.

Not specific to Let’s Go but given a huge part of Pokemon has always been playing with friends, having to pay for an online subscription to access trading/battling really rubs me the wrong way and I still think it’s a bad move on Nintendo’s part as a whole. When Gen VIII comes along and if Pokemon Bank gets ported to the Switch (or a similar thing) am I going to have to pay for both? That kind of sucks for kids who play if their parents aren’t willing to pay for it or for people who can’t afford it in general.

Big Mad that outside of completing all the research in Go (Again, not something everyone can do, I have severe anxiety/agoraphobia and therefore cannot leave my house much.) the only way to get Mew is to pay the ridiculous price for the Pokeball Plus. An event Pokemon that has always been given out for free shouldn’t be behind a massive paywall.

Grinding to be able to take on all the Master Trainers is hellish to be honest. And not a good feature in lieu of an actual post-game.

RIP Sevii Islands, it would've been nice to at least visit the first three (since they only have Kanto Pokemon living on them in FRLG). But no.

So overall... I liked it more than I thought I would. There are things in the game I really, really loved and hope to see more of (PLEASE let following Pokemon return in the main series, I’m begging you Game Freak). But I still have my hang-ups and things that I think removing/keeping out took away from the Pokemon experience as a whole.

As side games I’d like to see more of them with hopefully some improvements. But I definitely have a preference for main game, regular mechanics as a whole. The games definitely won’t be for everyone and YES, they are incredibly easy even for a Pokemon game - which was the point - so for some people that might be a problem/make them boring given the lack of challenge but I’d still recommend giving them a go if you’re a die-hard fan of the franchise. You’ll be pleasantly surprised.

#pokemon #pokemon lets go #let's go #pokemon lgpe #pokemon let's go spoilers #pokemon lgpe spoilers

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tamrieltrinity · 7 years

Note

((Dragons for the Meta Question, if you're still answering those.))

((AHA YOU’RE GONNA REGRET THAT. MAYBE. IDK. Dragons are intrinsically linked to time, time travel and quantum physics. These fuckers be scientists and not just angry lizard dogs. I mean, it is a little obvious when you consider Akatosh is a dragon god and he is the god of time but there’s more to it as well. I believe that dragons are strict adherents to Newtonian physics whereas mortals/daedra utilise and exemplify alternative causality models such as chaos theory, quantum physics and - most importantly - multiverse theory. It boils down to the difference between pre-destination and free will.We all know that two of the main instances of “time travel” in Skyrim are inherently linked to dragons and the dragon cult. You have the “defeat” of Alduin when the Ancient Tongues shouted him forward in time and you ALSO have the weird wooden dragon mask which allows you to see the ancient dragon masks in Labyrinthian. The other example was the Dreamstride. In terms of the lore, there are times where time stops being Newtonian causality and a bit more...chaotic. These have been tied to the apparent eradication of the elven Auriel bits from Akatosh by the Alessian Order, Tiber Septim when he was using Numinidium to conquer Tamriel, the dwemer’s disappearance, the Battle of Red Mountain and the Warp in the West have all been claimed to indicate this. These are defined as being “dragon breaks”, broken time essentially. All of these have more or less been committed by mortals or mortals endowed with super duper powers. These events leave ‘wounds’ in time - if we consider it as a fourth dimension. Paarthunaxx more or less advises that anything seen as temporary, dying, death is “painful” and that the wounds would also be felt by dragons. The wound part makes sense if you want to see dragons as entities from another dimension but so can dovahkiin sense it. However, this does not make much sense in context. Durnehviir is a necromancer - and would be Ianthe’s BFF if they ever met but I digress - and that is not seen as a bad thing. Dragons - such as the two in the Forgotten Vale and the one in Blackreach - were investigating new sources of power and manipulating death itself is not seen as a whoa thing. Hell, look at draugr! Death of mortals are totes fine. Death of dragons? That is also totally possible. Alduin was the need for those dragons to return and why?He was attempting to ‘fix’ time itself. Dragons - as far as we can tell - have a very clear idea of what the plan for the world is. Take over. Have dragon party. Alduin eats all the souls of dumb mortals. ??????? World ends. That is their sole purpose - to follow Alduin and to end the world. I would argue that it is not in spite or anger but that is what they are made to do. They understand that this world will die, that all mortals will die, that they would die. It is dying BEFORE their time as they see it which really fucks them up. It’s why Alduin resurrects them - according to what he understands to be the rules of engagement, all his dragon brothers and sisters would be alive when he was ending the world. He’s a villain but he’s a villain with a purpose and can only see one fixed set of possibilities, one fixed set of priorities and will move heaven and earth to move things if they are not in the correct place. So, how do mortals fit into this? When mortals mess around with time then things get messed up real bad. Probably the best example is the Warp in the West which is six or so separate timelines forcibly merged into one. The only other example of this I have seen in pop culture is in Rick and Morty episode “A Rickle in Time”. There would be multiple memories within a limited range of impact. It means that this is a tying together of six separate branches of mutliverses. In multiverse theory, every decision would create separate universes within which the consequences of that action are played out. Essentially, this in turn exemplifies chaos theory; that one indeterminate ‘cause’ can have many and unintended effects, like a butterfly causing a hurricane. Ultimately, the mortals boil down to using free will to change things. Often in TES, people would devote their very lives to causes and gods and throw away that free will, indeed if it could be argued that they even HAVE agency. Enter the player character. In Daggerfall, it is the actions of the player character who decides which branch of the mutliverse is right. It is the actions of the PC to dismantle the false Tribunal, to stop the Greymarch, to stop Mehrunes Dagon, to stop Alduin. It’s like nothing gets done or nothing changes without PC approval or the PC taking action. Essentially, free will is more or less limited to PCs and daedra. For the vast vast majority of characters in TES universe, they have very limited agency and I would argue that their ‘free will’ is nothing more than an illusion to pre-determination. The PC? They have full free will (well, as much as it would be stated that humans in our universe have free will and the evidence is a bit...mixed lmao). Dragonborns in general - of the three we have literally met - have a tendency of sticking up their fingers at casuality and being all “screw you”. In fact, most of the dragon breaks are to directly do with mortals close to Akatosh or the Imperial throne wanting to move things around or fuck shit up. It’s why I believe Alduin intentionally freed the Dragonborn. He knew that there was a PC or a Dovahkiin or whatever. He knew that in order to fulfil what he needed to do, he needed to have a Dragonborn to defeat. After all, it is NEVER made clear when he tumbled out of the space-time continuum. He could have been waiting years for a sniff of one with the dragon blood. After all, the Septim line had died out. Then out of freaking nowhere, a nameless, skillless, goofball is captured and imprisoned and turns out to be the Dovahkiin of legend. In Skyrim of all places. At that moment. Very convenient. So, we need to ask, what does that make us? The PC makes the huge decisions - aside from daedra. They are literal emperors deciding the fates of people that CANNOT DEFEAT YOU. Sure, you can die in game but...that actually doesn’t stop the PC. We reload, we are resurrected, whatever. Death probably means less to us than it does to the dragons since we think it’s a game. The PC is probably the single most dangerous motherfucker in the history of Tamriel. How is this possible?Sheogorath and the Grey March made this possible. Well, in game anyway. Jyggalag was banished - he was literally the daedric prince of Order. He so happens to appear when there is a change of an Era and do you know when dragon breaks are their most common? Oh. It’s new eras. That’s strangely related. So, Sheogorath and Jyggalag are essentially yin and yang. Order and...chaos. Newtonian physics is the embodiment of order. Cause, effect. Stimulus, response. It is also one of the only times that a daedric prince loses their free will. Jyggalag is order. Order that needs to be reinstated as temporal chaos has flung things out of order. Sheogorath only reappears after Jyggalag ‘restores order’...or when the PC turns into Sheogorath. When the PC becomes Sheogorath, they stop the Grey March. Both Sheogorath and Jyggalag exist at once. That is a bit of a paradox. It means that the timeline has been inherently fractured by the actions of the PC. The PC becomes Sheogorath and therefore has the power of a god. Considering that daedric princes are the only one seen to be able to fuck around with time WITHOUT breaking it, it could be considered that ALL PC CHARACTERS ARE SHEOGORATH INCARNATIONS. Take a blank vessel and make them look pretty or weird. Doesn’t matter what they did before now, a few arbitrary questions will determine what you are good at. Life, death, decisions of a god. Worshipping yourself? It’s Sheogorath ffs. It’s why all the NPCs come to you, they can see that you have the POWER. It’s why the NPCs worship daedra - because they get instant results. I mean, who would really allow someone to fuck them and become a creepy vampire monster? And I mean, for fuck sake, the decisions of the PC basically make the Warp in the West. What kinda scrub mortal has THAT power!?!To drive the situation back to Alduin. Now, Alduin knows about the Elder Scroll. He is probably aware that the situation goes like that. It’s predetermined. However, for him to come face to face with another god, one who might not be taking things seriously, one who is the the literal embodiment of ULTIMATE CHAOS compared to his orderly cause-effect, that is his challenge. The fight between him and the PC is a battle between determinism and free will. And it is possible that he knew he was going to lose. It should be interesting whatever comes next since time and causality has lead some interesting groundwork in a nice meddle of physics, psychology and philosophy. TL;DR Dragons are aware that you are Sheogorath and we are all literally Sheogorath. They are also sticklers to a strict temporal code and PC characters and a select group of NPCs just don’t give a fuck.

#aurielswaywardson #ooc #head canon #wow

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