#idk why ppl hate s3

[jamestitskirk]

spock and bones having some intense almost takeout episodes while kirk gets called a witch and threatens people like nobody's business, i love this ep

[seokwoosmole]

Never has my opinion about a non-antagonist character changed so drastically than it has about Shigure ok there might have been some before but right now I can’t think of any.

I went from “Oh he’s just a silly lil guy” to “*sobs* silly *sobs again* DAD” to “ohhhh….silly….pervy😳lil guy” to “ohhhh….silly mysterious guy???” to “oh- oh….😬”

[gregoftom]

some of y’all haven’t grown past the treating queer ppl like shit for liking a ship you don’t take seriously stage and it shows

[t3r4t0m4]

Actually expanding on the Munch and Varga cross over. Gonna turn it into a tiny little comic.

[wewebaggit]

i love how ur bio says safe space for hopper haters bc too many ppl in this fandom are always like “whaaaaat!? but how can u not like jopper 🥺” when he is not only a full grown man who abuses his power and was horrible to Joyce in s3 but also his character itself is literally copaganda

and it’s concerning and so weird (but also unsurprising) that jopper is like… elevated as this god tier ship, even in queer spaces, when in reality it’s pretty mid and also why would I want to ship Joyce byers with a cop

Hey booksandpaperss!

I am a safe space for ALL HATING. But specifically Jim Copper hate simply because he is shown a lot of undeserved grace by the fandom and the writers.

Since it's now in vogue to hate on s3 I'll take this opportunity to escape being called a negative nancy for once and just a hatering hater. Here goes:

My hate for Hopper is not as a result of season 3 but in fact it began with s2. (s1 a wee bit) But truly honestly deeply since season 2.

Hopper in season 2

After giving up Eleven's location in the prior season, Hopper then out of the goodness of his heart (😒) starts leaving Eggos for El in a reverse HansEl and GretEl. The feral El now has a home. But is it a home? Or just another prison? Hopper leaves her alone in the cabin with nothing but a TV. And so El spends her days mindlessly going through all the shit the idiot box has to offer. The only time she's actively interested in the TV is when she wants to use the static to get into the void. Because she has been kept away from the ONE friend she made out of the lab. And let's bffr. It's Mike. She is looking for Mike. And Mike too is the only one thinking about her. Hopper keeping her away from him and lying and being nothing but and angy aggressive cop of a dad is supposed to make the audience feel.....wait what are we supposed to feel? Mad at Hopper? Cuz the end result was people hating on El rebelling against Hopper. And it is all because El's resolution at the end of the Lost Sister episode was......that she needed to go back to Hopper and her friends. However, again it is a point in time when Hopper's at the lab and in mortal danger.

So since we love deep dives and shit and developing lore around characters, would she have been compelled to return to Hopper were he just, idk sitting in his cabin or at the station or whatever. A lot of ST is just about characters deciding to do stuff when someone is in REAL DANGER™️ But specifically with Hopper, he only steps up as dad when El's in danger. Otherwise he's treating her as a pet, something Mike was wrongfully accused of.

The whole entire (almost) year that El was with Hopper we do not see a change in her personality. Her rage has worsened. Her vocabulary is still lacking. In spite of the word of the days. There's no female presence in her life. He neither recruited Joyce nor her aunt (though that would have been sus, agreed n yet would it have been any different seeing as El managed to do it alone.) She's been held hostage for her own good.

Hopper: You put us in danger.

El: You promise. I go. I never leave. Nothing ever happens.

And then he grounds her. Like she was living it up otherwise. (S2E4)

We know it was because this was El's story of rebellion and trying to find her identity and so the story does not have Hopper do these things. But that still means that the story chose for Hopper to not do these things. He is even shown apologising (meh. half assed like his foil Mike, but that's for later) for it towards the end. And yet, that's something that's rarely discussed in fandom circles while talking about Hopper.

Hopper in Season 3

Oh he proves he's a blackhole alright. Sucked Joyce's character development. He's only marginally improved letting Mike see her but beyond that it's still mostly the same. She still is under-socialised. Speaks like that. El herself seeks out Max. Joyce is still too busy being ungrateful (I know not the intent, but the execution nonetheless) she's still not leaving the cabin much and has some curfew. Again which is, well why is it there? Cuz she's been coolly gallivanting with Max at the mall and everywhere else without a problem.

He's a proper asshole to Mike and a bully. Who tf threatens murder to a 13 year old kid? Like between having a chat and threatening homicide, he could come up with ZERO options. He needs emotional laxatives that aren't just anger and bullying.

Hopper in season 3 is an unfunny comic relief. A man baby. A bully who uses his cop privileges. Who treats the woman he supposedly likes like shit. He was so mad about Joyce not meeting up with him despite her telling him the reason. I mean mister you did that with Eleven too and just expected her to understand. The juvenile hUmOUr and the macho man action scenes where he's outwitting trained Russian mercenaries (lmao) is a step down from the basement he was already in. Him treating Alexei like shit when he was the only one who could have helped them. Make it make sense. (Anti-Russia/USSR pro USA copaganda and nothing else)

Also beyond all of this I simply hate Hopper for taking away valuable screentime from the kids that this show is supposedly about but hasn't really been that for some time now. He's a white male war veteran cop who's a Hawkins native and was a popular kid in school too. So he's not even an outsider in terms of being the new man in town, let alone the shit that really matters.

Hopper in Season 4

Not dead enough.

Jopper throughout the show

Mid chemistry. Joyce is already a semi-absent mother but becomes entirely absent after Hopper's message from Russia. She has ZERO clue of what her kids are going through in Cali and then has the fucking audacity to walk out on them without even letting them know that she might not return. She also leaves the only responsible person in that household with the charge as if she ever took it. She is now been relegated to being the comic relief which is neither comical and far from a relief and Hopper's girlfriend. Every season she has proven to be right on the money with her instincts and every season everyone including Hopper question her as if she's the dumb one. Hello. Do you guys clear up your memory after every season? It's annoying and one note. Hopper is a jealous manbaby all of s3 and a fucking liar. "i shOuldn't hAVe seNt yOu the LeTteR" Bitch u did. You wanted out. Dasvidaniya! El's college fund. But you'll only need it if you make it through school 🤷‍♀️. WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN HOMESCHOOL HELLO. Though I do commend the subversion of the found family trope where both the adults are pathetic parents. Do love one of the main couples being failparents! (is that a thing? or are they pioneers?)

[findafight]

I love your opinions on r0nance so much. If you ever bring Steve up to the shippers they always start talking about how you can't insert a man into a wlw ship/relationship. As if he isn't integral to both their stories in the show. He's Nancy's ex and they dated for a year and he's Robin's best friend. If he was only one of those things it wouldn't matter, but he is both. And you can't separate them. If it wasn't for Steve, Nancy would have never acknowledged Robin. She didn't know who Robin was in S3 and it's heavily implied that she didn't care and wasn't interested in anything about Robin until she was useful. If Robin wasn't friends with Steve she wouldn't have become involved with the Upside Down, and Nancy never would have noticed her.

thank you! yeah I was writing that answer and thinking "literally so many of my issues with this ship and how it's approached have nothing to do with Steve. woah" though obviously i really hate how poorly robin and her relationship with steve is treated/written within the ship. why make her mean, or purposefully deceitful in a way she knows will be hurtful to her best friend? :( if you have to butcher a character/their relationship with another character for a ship...is that worth it? seems kinda vindictive too like what did power QPR duo stobin do to make ppl want to break them up? they hate to see bad bitches winning XD

I think taking criticism of how the robin and steve dynamic is treated in r0nance fic and saying that people saying those things are just making a wlw relationship about a man is sort of...idk. not insulting but. insincere? about how they care about characters, because like. this is a man whose relationships with these women is deeply influential to who they are and how they met. Robin is Steve's best friend. She wants to combine into an ultimate being with him. She made a crush she had about Steve, she's just going to insert him into her romo relationships and her partners are gonna have to deal with her weird obsession with her bestie! Nancy is his ex! Who cheated on him!! Both of them have history with steve, and that history influences dynamics! If we use rebel robin, she longs to find her people, real friends she can trust and talk to and click with without worrying about being too much. Steve is Robin's person. She puts a great deal of weight on her platonic relationships, and we see that with steve! Her thinking about how her actions would affect him is not centring a wlw relationship on a man it's being a good and loving friend!!

totally agree, Robin and Nancy's relationship with each other is pivoted on steve, because he's their point of commonality! He's the reason they know each other, (and also are alive), and has/had intense and deeply meaningful relationships with both of them, that have helped to informed who all three of them are!

Nancy's relationship with steve is tied to her grief and guilt surrounding Barb, and their involvement with the upside down. Treating it like it didn't mean anything to either of them is a disservice to that year they spent dating. yeah, maybe it wasn't a relationship meant to last, maybe it wasn't good for them or was cliche adolescent first love but it was important to steve, and important enough to Nancy that she stayed in it. tbh disregarding the s4ncy history and how steve loved her happens in a lot of fics, so it's not only a rnce problem, but it's a particularly annoying thorn when combined with steve's bff not caring about it or how he feels about it? doesn't feel like robin to me.

[echobx]

these pics and videos spoilers im seeing is making me a bit sad as a jjpope shipper.... seeing jiara fans happy that rudy and madison are filming scenes between both makes jjpopes future look even worse. i was really hoping for s4 to be their season? pics of kiara and jj in same bedroom? i dont feel good at all for whats coming. how can the show ignore jjpope and their potential?

i feel the same anon. but I still have some hope because all we have got to see hasn't been very romantic looking in my eyes. and to the clip of Madison in bedroom next to a guy, that's JD, that's not Rudy. bc that video they screenshotted from was is on Madelyn's Instagram and I'm pretty sure it's JD based on the fact that he commented something on it that is visible on his body in the shot.

also, the fact that they zoomed in on a poster on a wall and then said "this is proof they live together" is just not holding up. bc (1) not just Kie can have this poster and just bc they used it in her room in s3 doesn't mean they didn't just use it to save money on new props (the surfshop of JB and Sarah has the same logo as the one we have already seen in s1&2 so unless they buy that thing, I'm just calling it cheap production and not wanting to create a new logo) (2) there was no confirmation whose house they are at in this clip, and (bc I'm that bitch) when you look out the window in the video, you can clearly see the marina. so they can't be at JJ's bc of the location of the house. I'm calling it and say their at Pope's or Kie has her own house.

on the other hand what still gives me hope, is that everything I have jiara shippers seen talking about (especially on twitter) has still no ground to stand on. tbh hey sound very delulu to me with all they are saying right now. I mean, I have seen more bts clips were Rudy and Madison don't seem as happy to be there, or aren't even in the shots together, than ones where they are.

I do have hope that the writers aren't that dumb and do what they did with KiePope and give us just a little and then let the characters realize that it's not working out.

I'm also super confused about Luke being there, and tbh I hate that they are doing it now bc they wanted to do that last season and then didn't bc bts leaks and jiara. but what I hate more is ppl going "omg luke is gonna throw JJ off Redfield Lighthouse!!" like why? why would they kill off the one character that keeps thousands if not millions of ppl interested in the show. bc if I'm totally honest, if they do kill him off I'm not gonna keep watching. same with Pope. if one of them dies, I'm done with this shitshow and it'll be fanon forever. (it already is bc canon is shit with holes)

ig my main issue with all that jiaras are doing isn't that they are shipping it, ship what you want, but the impact they get to have and the little media literacy they seem to have too. the homophobia and racism of it all

but then again, JJ is still wearing the bandana in the back right pocket. and I do hope for some good changes (for us) bc none of the official promo they gave us yet was in any instance showing anything about jiara. they gave them nothing. and maybe that's why jiaras sound so delulu to me right now, bc if how they say "this is jiara's season" was true, why wouldn't the short clips we got a few months ago have anything in them that gives jiaras genuine hope? no instead we got a group shot where the two are far apart, then the boys, and Sarah looking sad again. no jiara in sight. and maybe that's why I have hope, but that might also just be a marketing strategy idk.

they should let Kie cheat on him with a girl, that's what I wanna see. she should just fuck a girl and then come home and break up with JJ. that's what I want deep in my soul. bc just from the first intro we got into JJ (JB's pilot episode monologue) it's so damn obvious that they will never work, even if they weren't both raging homosexuals.

[b1rdbra1ned]

Oh no I hate Fan too. Fan was not a good character in season 2 and he didn't actually face any consequences for his actions. Paintbrush was like the closest we got to Fan being criticised and people considered PB to be the one overreacting. Paintbrush is done so dirty because the fandom put their own belief about the bright lights being family even though Paintbrush never actually got along with them. They talked to tt like once, bickered with lb until the last ep they were in and then there's. Fan..

Also I think I hate fantube a little more after the theyrebasicallycanon polls put enstars against ii. Glad rinniki won they deserve the win against fantube imo.

Sorry I was tired of being critical of ii so I don't like it anymore 😔

But hiiii we haven't talked much in a while ik :(( I'm on holiday rn but feel free to talk to me if you want!

ALLLL OF THIS

Paintbrush was in every way in the right to yell at fan, he constantly bothered and nagged at them and the stuff about marshmallow was definitely the final straw

i only ever liked the whole bright lights family thing because honestly it could’ve worked imo!!! but they just never took that chance they never really developed the brights lights AT ALL most season (beside from marshmallow) the bright light felt more like the comical team (not really but can’t think of a better way to describe them) compared to the grand slams who definitely got way more focus and development

it’s shitty because i think the brights lights could’ve had potential but they were just casted aside until the last few episodes where “oh hey look development!! :] oh wait nvm they’re eliminated now <3” like ????

paintbrush definitely got the short end of the stick here. literally having what was supposed to be their episode mainly centred around tt and lb and having their feelings about marsh being completely casted aside. i wish more was done w/ marshmallow and them vs them and lb

looking back a lot of their scenes w lb just felt kinda off??? i don’t think can articulate this probably rn but paintbrush deserved better

but at the same time i wish the team got more time w/ each other in general, they have so many great opportunities to do it like in the maze episodes but again they’re kinda just cast aside as just comedy

and w/ s3 oh boy i hate what they did with paintbrush and their “arc” in the last few episodes. they quite literally and figuratively took away their edges, i miss sassy, sarcastic confident paintbrush they feel so dulled down in iii and it’s like no one in the writing team understands them at all. it’s like they didn’t even write s2 (but hey back to the point i mentions last post that show writers really ought to stop listening to fans sometimes because this is how fanon seeps in </3)

i hate how the a lot of the fans view paintbrush especially if it’s only ever in the context of lightbrush or shipping (another thing that pisses me off btw is how they’re always treated as irrational and or just plain out abusive FUCK PEOPLE WHO PORTRAY PAINTBRUSH LIKE THIS)

they’re such a great character who gets absolutely fucked over by the writing and fandom (not all of the fandom of course, i love seeing ppls takes and discussions on them but it’s just some fans who just </3)

i don’t like discouraging ships, if ppl are mature and respectful and don’t put other ppl down then that’s all great and stuff but my problem is that i really wish paintbrush was just seen as more than their ships yknow

Fan is.. the more i think about canon him the more im like yeaaa… uh no thanks…. (mainly w/ him and paintbrush and cabby)

idk if im even allowed to say they changed tt this season because.. she didn’t honestly have a lot of screentime last season compared to a whole lot of other characters, but in iii she feels off?? honestly all of them do even the new contestants later on during the season

idk if i have the words to describe why s3’s characterisation is so off and at time frustrating, their arcs too, was going to point out some characters but honestly i could make a case for nearly ALL the contestants the ones who weren’t voted out early at least

that’s the end of my ramble tho, sorry ik i talked a lot about paintbrush, i want to talk about the others too but they’re the one i still even think about. hopefully this isn’t a bit hard to read, ik im not that organised w my rambles sometimes

[brekker-by-brekkerr]

Idk how ppl, after EJ told Gina that "a perfect show is how I stay with you" or in ep 3x4 "I won't let Gina down", can say that he was so focused on the show to only impress his father... His main goal was to make sure that him and Gina could have a future, and that was more important than impressing his dad. You can see that after the break up, he stopped fighting for himself to stay, since his main reason was to stay for Gina... Ppl who try to diminish how much he cared about her are just haters... They don't even pay attention to all of his scenes and judge him for every little thing... I saw a tiktok with 10k likes that said that EJ will never be loved (in the sense that he doesn't deserve that) and that was before s3 aired... When I saw it I was WTH!? I don't get why they hate him so much and it's so sad that there are so many of them...

Oh my stars yes it bothers me so much when people say EJ was just doing the show to impress his dad, because the show NEVER says that. Yes, there's more to his motivation than helping Gina and his friends, 100%, and obviously impressing his dad was on his mind. But you're so right anon that his main goal was fighting for a future with gina.

Also wth. I get not shipping portwell bc to each their own but what has ej done that makes people hate him so much?? like actually. what. he has grown so much and worked so hard and done so much for the people he loves and how??

[thestobingirlie]

To add to to anon about Nancy's common sense or lack thereof in s4. Idk if it's on the Duffers but yet again Nancy just exhibits reckless behavior when investigating Chrissys murder. Like bfr you are writing for a high school paper, you have zero investigating journaling experience (aside from Murray) and you drag in another guy who has even less experience. What high school paper would also publish this article? It's literally about one of their students. The parents would probably sue them. Again I see people saying it's her trauma of needing to solve things fast because she failed Barb but still. She should have known better than to drag in another person, after what happened with Jonathan and them getting fired for all we know the high school could have suspended them if the article went through. It's like she doesn’t think about the bigger picture. I would love if that would be addressed in the show, that Nancy's tunnel vision is a negative trait she needs to unlearn because she caused so much hurt with it. But that would require the writers to acknowledge Nancy's lack of empathy as well. (Ppl claim Nancy talking to Wayne shows how she's such a sweet and caring person, when in reality she manipulated him to get her story and clues. She's very selfish which I love but I would like it even more if it was portrayed as a negative trait with consequences)

Then later after Vecna revealed his plan to Nancy, she shot everyone down (Steve and Eddie) who were like nope this plan sucks. Steve literally is their best fighter (with Hopper and El) if he has reservations the group should listen to him. Nancy's need to be right and not listening to others got us in this mess and I hope they address it and she can learn from it in s5. I hate when people say well Steve is just against everything, he doesn't care look how dismissive he is when in reality him putting a stop to things is him trying to keep the group save. Besides Steve, nobody really has common sense, they are smart nerds but they need people like him who can strategitize. I mean he was captain of the basketball team and swim team, he's a leader with good ideas.

Nancy also getting a gun instead of a flamethrower shows she doesn't have common sense. When did her guns help anyone? In s3 in the cabin it was Lucas and Jonathan who got El out from the Mindflayers grip and she couldn't disable the car. It's established since s2 the Mindflayer/Vecna hates heat, guns don't do anything only buy you some time. And I hate that Nancy's moment of shooting Vecna was framed as the most iconic and important moment in vol2, when it was Steve and Robin who lit him up and did the most damage. Without that they would have been dead. Nancy saw him covered in vines primary to that moment, she should know vines especially don't care about bullets, if Vecna has them as his body armor why tf would she use the gun.

yeah, it is funny that she investigates a murder as if she’ll be able publish it in the school paper, and she lies to wayne about who she is, saying she works for a ‘small paper’. girl, you’re in journalism club.

i definitely think she feels like she has to solve it because of barb, though honestly i don’t really understand why she drags fred along. like, she doesn’t know chrissy’s death has anything to do with the upside down, and she seems to bin fred off pretty quickly to talk to wayne. and i would’ve thought that after last season she would’ve decided she was better off investigating alone. she doesn’t even seem to like fred much, why bring him along?

i definitely think that would’ve been a better story line, that nancy decides to work alone, and realises that you just can’t do this kind of stuff alone, and that she does need people. because nancy’s development relies on her making friends, so why cut her further away from others when she could have a realisation that she needs steve and the kids. instead the duffers just killed off another teen in close proximity to her to make her feel guilty.

yeah, nancy totally gets tunnel vision and is selfish, which is a super interesting character trait, if it were acknowledged!

the way steve literally said it was a shit plan, and then they ended up losing. but will that be acknowledged? no.

but yeah, steve was a team captain, he should be good at delegating and deciding the risk of things, and i don’t think it makes sense that nancy should be in charge of a group. in the same way that i wouldn’t put murray in charge of a group. nancy is smart, but like you said earlier, she gets tunnel vision, she struggles to recognise a situation outside of her own opinions. she’s not the most empathetic, and i think she often cares more about being right than other people feelings, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not a great personality trait for a leader.

i’m so tired of the gun thing. it never works! it’s used to try and make nancy look badass and then she never even kills anything! everyone else has to do the killing while she shoots her useless guns. lucas literally chopped the mind flayer with a fucking axe, but people only ever care about nancy with a shotgun in her arms. give her a fucking flamethrower, that’d be awesome.

[honeyandkissesxo]

i feel like the general understanding of most characters in st is just wrong, but it’s close enough to the truth that you can’t say it’s wrong.

and then there’s the black and white thinking of characters being only good or bad as if there wasn’t an entire storyline this season about people being complex and more than just good or bad, or monster vs superhero.

steve: people will dismiss the fact that he was an asshole in s1 and say he was in the right that season just bc he ditched his friends at the end, as if he wasn’t slut shaming nancy or picking a fight w jonathan by being homophobic and insulting his family and making fun of his brother who was thought dead at the time. or the ppl who act like he hasn’t changed since then or that his character has gone downhill bc he he was flirting w nancy, as if it wasn’t being encouraged by all of his friends, he also didn’t just straight up say hey i wanna have six kids w you, he told her what he wanted to do with his life and then after a pretty good reaction he later said he wanted it to be with her, he wasn’t being creepy at all.

jonathan: sure it was weird that he was taking photos of them all but ppl aren’t mad abt that they’re mad that he took photos of nancy getting undressed, which ofc seems weird from steve’s perspective but we as the audience see that it was clearly an accident, he was taking photos of nancy and then she unexpectedly took of her top in front of the window while he was taking it, he saw this and immediately moved the camera away and refocused on barb. he also apologised for taking the pictures twice, even thought both times nancy was just interested in why he took them in the first place.

mike: the amount of hate he gets is insane. no one hated on lucas for ignoring will, even will only seemed to blame mike and started a fight when mike was trying to apologise, and then mike and lucas biked through the rain to apologise again before the mindflayer rudely interrupted. and ppl have the audacity to say mikes homophobic bc of the infamous “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” line when he didn’t even mean it like that, and he immediately regret it and tried to explain himself. and now everyone seems to think mike was ignoring will again when he wasn’t, idk wtf was going on at the airport, it was awkward for everyone, but the main thing is rinkomania. will thinks he didn’t call but were told later that he did call just couldn’t get through, and they made up anyway so i don’t know why ppl are still so mad abt it. if ppl are gonna be mad at mike tho it should be bc he treated el terribly this season. but no one seems to care abt that they think he fixed it with that monologue but he didn’t

will: i think bc most of the hate is just blatant homophobia any criticism gets dismissed as that too, and you end up with this view that will does nothing wrong ever and he’s just this innocent kid. any time you point out that he was also in the wrong in s3 you get hit with “but he lost his childhood” as if he spent his whole life in UD, and he gets infantilised. he wanted them to do smth they didn’t want to, they were making him be part of smth he didn’t want to, he was ignoring their problems, they were ignoring his game. they were both in the wrong that season. now in s4 he seemed to be trying to make up for that by actually listening to mikes issues and trying to help him, he also lied which is like rule no1. but everyone lied abt smth this season and he was trying to help so when ppl say he’s being selfish that’s simply not true.

[celestie0]

your favorite characters from attack on titan? and why?

oh em gee 🧚‍♀️✨ i will gladly n excitedly answer this question (spoilers below cut)

i’ll do a top three lol

my fave character in the whole series was hange :””) i lovveeddd them from the very beginning when i watched aot s1 in 2013 so its been a decade long love ✋🏼😩 i cried so hard during s4 pt3 :””) but yeee i just adore the nerdy scientific characters that aren’t scared of the imminent threat of the verse but rather intrigued and curious to almost a point of insanity lol. but i think the hange scene i loved the most was during midnight sun (BEST AOT EP EVER I’LL DIE ON THIS HILL) is when mikasa is terrified of armin not being the one they bring back to life n hange says something like “there are people that i wish i could bring back too” 😭😭 idk that scene hit me rly hard n really quantified the amt of loss in aot i think

my second save character is reiner >:3 bc he’s so babygirl n i wanna make him my housewife. LOL jk naw but i HATED that man s2-s3 bc his whole multiple personality thing was such bullshit like 🙄 ok so you’ve killed sm of my fave characters but you’re still acting like a good guy??? go fuck yourself dude. BUT i started to get intrigued by his character when he was so committed to giving ymir’s letter to christa during shiganshina arc in s3 pt2…and then s4 rolled around and i fell IN LOVE W HIM. he was the only marleyan side warrior eldian that showed the right amount of remorse for what they did on paradis island, and although his backstory is so sad n its obv not his fault he was groomed into a war machine at such a young age, it was nice that isayama made him so guilty to the point of suicidal ideation. and he pulled THROUGGGH during the finale omg the scene where jean held onto him and said he is also a scout☝🏼😭 fuck yeah. also i’d like to impregnate him

my third fave character UUGHHH ITS TOO HARD THERES SO MANY but honestly i just have to say eren. i have soooo many mixed opinions ab eren’s character i could talk ab his character for HOURRSS but s1-3 eren was my BABY. my SON. MY SUGAR PLUM PUMPY UMPY UMPKIN. i mean he was pretty generic shonen protagonist coded lol but he was just such a sweetheart that was so hotheaded n determined to take care of the ppl he loved. it was always so easy to empathize w him on so many fronts n i love characters like that. however his character took an interesting turn in s4, and although i don’t agree w his actions in s4, i can’t say i didn’t want to see him succeed either…super weird, i still don’t quite know how to feel ab the events of the rumbling (i mean i err on the side of it was incredibly evil of him) but the fact there’s sm nuance to his character, regardless of whether i agree w him or not, means he’s one of my faves (we dont talk ab his character in the ending though. shhh. to me aot ends s4 ep28…sorry)

honorable mentions: armin, erwin, levi

least favorite character: zeke (die mf die)

YEEEEE THANK YOU FOR ASK BB i love talking ab aot <333 lmk what ur faves are if you’d like to 👀

[byersfanclub]

idk how melvins don’t see it but if mike’s character came down to just being a douche-y teenager who was a dick to his friends but mostly to just his BEST friend all because of some girl he kinda barely knew and found out the ending to that character arc was to end up married to said girl and having kids that finn wolfhard would probably be like

cause he’s literally been so vocal about how mike’s character has been a bit frustrating since s3 and idk why ppl just ignore how obvious it is he doesn’t like melvin (even caleb seems to hate it too ☠️☠️) and even millie has started to finally be like “who knows if they’ll stay together” cause it’s finally the last season and i don’t think she feels a need to keep up the facade anymore idk that’s just imo tho

[mike-haters-dni]

‘SENT TO THE GULAG’ IS KILLING ME

okay yes hop has probably atoned for his sins by now and his monologue at rock bottom was really good but it still pisses me off sometimes idkk. im just waiting for the payoff of seeing him actually DO better this time😭

and exactly! the angst in s2 is like- messy- but that’s good television! it gave us a top 5 millie preformance how can i even be mad

men in stranger things are weird sometimes cuz you have to overlook their CRIMES, (i’ll be like “omg jancy!” then i REMEMBER…) it’s weird when a character is randomly at their worst for a scene or a season just to meet the story’s requirements

jopper can scream at each other all sam and diane for nostalgia in s3 but when you look at it in a larger context it’s kinda dicey. like how weird of hop to doubt her when he already knows to trust her instincts.

and also it’s just like- nobody drags him enough for me! he’s so loved- male characters can do ANYTHING kinda- so i have to get him. out of principle. and i see that hopper (and like david harbour) is too important to kill off in the show and that him and el’s relationship isn’t all lows, not even in s2. i think i’m just bitter that 1. st tiktok treats el like she was SO unreasonable in that scene>:( (i need to stop going there it makes me want to rant on tumblr) and 2. how much time was devoted to bringing him back last season like my cali boys were so neglected. :( (after 2 failed prison escape attempts i was like (why i am still looking at this insanely bruised man) so-

but yeah i need to stop typing now cause i have a million thoughts in my head about hopper and the way that he is. and the way the show treats him. (how funny is it that even the viewers can have a complicated relationship with him. maybe i’m not giving the writers enough credit in that regard)

: )

-No like, I agree 100%. We forgive but we never forget

-I have a hard time even being really mad at Jonathan for the Incident cuz like, that was such a weird ooc moment that was clearly just so the plot would happen. Like he got possessed by the spirit of the writers to do that shit. And like I can't even be mad at the writers either because like, the plot they were servicing is really fucking good? I might be the only person in the world who thinks this but I think this show is phenomenally written esp from a plot structure perspective. Near perfectly even. Like this show single-handedly instilled a sense of how to do super satisfying setup and payoff, and how to have every scene push multiple things forward, and how everything seen on screen needs to be relevant to as much as possible. Its so tightly written that its like...yeah Jonathan had to do that shit. It allowed like 3 perfectly intersecting plotlines to play out. There was no other option. And like there probably was and maybe I'm coping or whatever but like...idk it's perfect to me :) But still we forgive but we never forget. And we only forgive after they display a marked change in behavior. And we still never forget <3 (side note: remember when El dumped him and Mike ((and Lucas)) went full andrew tate for a second? That's the one thing he's ((they've)) actually ever done wrong lmaooo ((tbf they were also 13 so like)))

-Who tf is saying she was being unreasonable??? child???? traumatized??? isolated in a tiny cabin for a year?????? With Hopper?????? A cop????????? HellO?????????? Bro ppl HATE her bro this needs to stop

-I think the biggest problem with the Russia plotline is just that it's not fun? Watching Hopper get tortured in a labor camp is not fun? I came here for 80s vibes, friendship and supernatural shit and it only delivers that whenever Joyce and Murray are onscreen (who are really fantastic together tho) and once the monster finally shows up way too late into the proceedings. There should have been inklings of monster throughout to add some intrigue and let us know that this was all going to have a point that tied into the plot of Stranger Things the 80s Monster Show. But alas.

[imunbreakabledude]

ok nah i got more to say from my last post.

the idea that The Boys portrays women as good/noble/infallible and men as bad/evil/fallible is a take that gets thrown around surprisingly often for how simply and objectively false it is.

i feel like this take often comes from people who just really hate annie? and whatever you dont have to like her, but she's a very traditional narrative hero, morally right most of the time, but still fucks up sometimes, learns from other characters, strays occasionally but stays the path. i can see why some of the reflexive negativity came from the latter half of s3 where she was vocally just pointing out how crazy other ppl were being (with the wild stance of "let's not help the super powerful, aggressive, exploding man we don't know at all murder a handful of people in the hopes that he will peacefully then murder the one guy we want him to murder and then cause no further issues himself?" paired with "maybe don't take this experimental drug we don't know the consequences of just in the name of throwing yourself into this highly risky plan?") - it's understandable why other characters disagreed bc it's a good conflict! but the reason she was portrayed as reasonable/right is because... those are reasonable/right stances? lmao

but early in s3 she was WRONG and Hughie was right. remember? when she was all like "i wanna stay in the seven and be co-captain and i'll fix everything by being popular and getting diversity™ in the seven." she was wrong! and hughie told her to get out, and she didn't try, she got in deeper, and regretted it, but it was too late. annie literally got her friend killed. if she hadn't brought supersonic into the rebel effort (yeah he kinda pushed his way in a bit but she could've tried harder to keep him out) and also if she hadn't goaded homelander even more by challenging him over stupid shit, then homelander wouldn't have killed supersonic.

anyways, on the topic of characters who are always/almost always portrayed as good and right. in my opinion at least, the most consistently good, loyal, reasonable character on the show? M.M.! he has his own struggles, sure, feeling torn between fighting the fight and being there for his kid, but i cant think of one moment he was morally off course. Frenchie is not too far behind, and Hughie is not too far behind that - even when Hughie messes up he has abundantly understandable and empathetic reasons, and he is never portrayed as EVIL. even when he's "wrong" to take temp v and help soldier boy in s3, it's not by a huge margin, you understand why he and butcher believe that to be the best course of action.

meanwhile... there are bad women on the show! you have annie and kimiko who are near the top of the "goodness" scale (at least in intent) but both do have missteps or regrets. Then there's Maeve, who is portrayed as ultimately good but with some major flaws and mistakes.

then you've got the two major women antagonists of season 1 and season 2? Madelyn Stillwell and Stormfront? i'm 99% sure both those characters were men in the comic (and obviously many other aspects of them changed but) ... the show made a conscious effort to depict that bad people can be any gender?? lol?

You've also got Neuman now, another powerful antagonist though her allegiances are still questionable. Ashley as well, whom idk if we can truly call an antagonist, but she is certainly not a "good" person on the moral scale of this universe.

I guess there are technically more "bad" men than women on this show if you go broadly speaking - but that's because there's more men period. even if we leave out the most questionable case of butcher (who is obviously designed to make the audience feel ambivalent about whether his actions are justified; though I would put him in the "good" bucket ultimately, at least in how the show's constructed, he's an antihero) ... ya get ~3 "good" men (hughie, frenchie, mm, 4 if you count supersonic) and 3 "good" women (annie, kimiko, maeve, who's aboutta be gone). then you've got ~4 "bad" men (Homelander, A-Train, Deep, Soldier Boy, I guess you could count Noir but he isn't shown to be like a bad person morally? I guess you could maybe count Edgar too). and ~3 "bad" women (Madelyn, Stormfront, Neuman, could add Ashley if you want). that's a surprisingly equal breakdown tbh... the one place where the men get the majority, i guess, is in the MINOR "bad" guys. like ones only in 1-2 episodes who then get dispatched. Translucent, Lamplighter, Gunpowder, Mesmer, Termite etc... only woman equivalent i can think of is crimson countess. Little Nina too I guess? but there's more men, there, because yeah, just more men overall.

tl;dr I have no idea why people ever make that complaint because the show is pretty varied in terms of protagonists/antagonists across gender lines

[tousakamis]

i think one of my main issues w #that st ship (in a romantic context anyway) is just how much it reminds me of my own experiences with romance.

im an aroace person and i, too, dated people who i was close with, who Everyone said "oh, you must like them romantically bc you're close, right?". a lot of people bring up heteronormative pressure but i don't think enough people consider the amatonormative pressure as well.

like... the way i personally see mike, i think he mixed up platonic attraction with romantic attraction, because Everybody was telling him it had to be that way. so at first he maybe really did think he liked her romantically - then, as things shifted and he began to face more internal issues, it became more of a desperation to force himself. like "oh, we're in a romantic relationship. she likes me romantically. i HAVE to like her romantically too." and when you consider his undeniable queer coding.... romantic and hetero norms are so deeply intertwined, you're expected to like people romantically. it's the way a boy and a girl will be friends and the instant assumption is romantic chemistry - it's that undeniable overlap that makes a lot of queer youth feel almost obligated to date (esp someone of the opposite gender), often before they discover themselves.

like! i really think they would be so much better as best friends. you can Love somebody, you can wholeheartedly adore them... that doesn't mean romantic love. i don't deny that they really love each other - but sometimes, when you love somebody, you almost feel forced to be in love with them, especially if they're of the opposite gender. it gets to the point that expressing that love, because of the romantic nature, can feel really unnerving; mike is fine being affectionate with her when it's not romantic, such as sharing the bike, but when they're doing it in a romantic context, he looks... baffled, almost disgusted. like i get you, boy!! no matter how much you love/care about someone, knowing the affection comes from a romantic nature when you Don't feel that way is so uncomfortable (especially as he may be not attracted to girls at all - double whammy of societal norms!).

i hate how some people act like these character's only have worth if they're romantically bound to another.

like, yes, i do have my own ships w these characters. ultimately my main want for these two is for people to recognise they exist beyond their current romantic relationship.

for mike? he becomes more of his own person in wills company, their platonic bond is so unbelievably strong and it's one of my absolute favourite dynamics ive ever seen. in fact, it made me really sad watching mike sideline his bond with will, though i know that's somewhat due to his internalised homophobia. but mike and will bring out the best in each other - they're best friends who just so happen to be in love with each other. they're already each others happy endings, regardless of whether it's platonic or romantic. in fact im Rooting for their romantic happy ending bc to me, that would be the biggest "fuck you" to amatonormativity and heteronormativity in one fell swoop!

as for el? she's already moving towards individuality, she's already trying to define her worth beyond her romantic affairs. this is why her bond with max is so so beautiful - max actively tells her "there's more to life than stupid boys" in S3, reminding her that she's more than a romantic relationship, and max encourages her to find herself. id say max is one of the best things to happen to el and they truly love eachother, which is further proven by her desperation to save max in S4. imo, el has begun to prioritize platonic and familial relationships As well as herself. idk why ppl think her romantic relationship falling apart is gonna ruin and destroy her. she's more than mikes gf 💔

but yeah. TL;DR #that ship in a romantic context feels Very amatonormative to me and some fan responses further this. i love the dynamic in a platonic sense more than ANYTHING (like. genuinely please feel free to talk to me about it) so please don't think i don't recognize their love for each other. but, as per the dictionary definition - loving somebody ≠ romantic love!!

(i do apologize if none of this makes sense btw 😭 but i hope at least some people get what i mean, please feel free to add things or correct me on some things)