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nerevar-quote-and-star · 7 months

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Okay, here are my current notes on the Markarth Incident. This is more of an evolution of thought rather than a final product, 'kay? 'kay. XOXO

4E 174 – The Empire recalls all Legions from the far corners of the Empire to participate in the final assault against the Aldmeri-held Imperial City. Every town and city not on the frontlines is left with a skeleton garrison.

The Reachmen of Western Skyrim chooses to capitalize on this movement. The Reachmen populate an area of Western Skyrim, Eastern High Rock, and Northern Hammerfell. Although they appear similar to the Bretons of High Rock, they are wholly distinct, worshipping gods completely detached from those of Breton culture. During the Second Era, they once ruled Cyrodiil as the Longhouse Emperors; in recent history, they have lived subject to other races, primarily the Nords, who rule much of the Reach. More often than not, Reachmen are second-class citizens, though very rarely have they received decent though not preferential treatment from a Nordic Jarl.

When the Empire recalls their Legions, the capital of the Reach, Markarth, is left functionally undefended. A Reachman leader, Madanach, takes this opportunity to seize the city and install a Reachmen government in place of the Nords. Madanach declares himself King of the Reach and succeeds the Reach from Skyrim. Contemporary Imperial documents show that Madanach sent emissaries to Emperor Titus Mede II in an attempt to have the Reach recognized as its own Imperial Province wholly separate from Skyrim. Titus Mede appeared to have taken this into serious consideration, though he was unable to give it his full attention as the Empire was planning their attack on the Imperial City.

Conflicting reports on the time frame of the Reachman takeover exist. Reports vary between the takeover beginning in Fourth Era 174 and 177 when the conflict was over. Contemporary Imperial and Forsworn documentation claim that Madanach’s rule was relatively stable, saying he was fair to the Nords, his people ousted from power, and allowed them to remain in the city so long as they recognized his government. It is said that live around Markarth continued in the same way as before, though under the Reachmen rather than the Nords. It may be important to note that Nord landholders who “mistreated” their Reachmen servants were put to death.

The Nordic perspective (as shared by Jarl Igmund in Fourth Era 201) claims that the Reachmen takeover was violent, leading to a chaotic period in which Nords were heavily discriminated against and no civil cooperation between races.

[Madanach’s version of events MAY be closer to the truth. N.B: During his rule, he seems willing to help a group of dissident Blades in exchange for a favor.]

The White-Gold Concordat is signed 11th of Sun’s Dusk, Fourth Era 175; Surviving veterans of the Battle of the Red Ring return to their homes, including large populations of Nordic legionnaires. Talos worship is outlawed. Talos temples are closed, though many continue to worship him in private. Ulfric Stormcloak takes offense to the banning of Talos worship, viewing it as a central aspect of Nord culture. His father, Hoag, the Jarl of Windhelm and Bear of Eastmarch, does not legalize Talos worship despite Ulfric’s religiosity. It may be that he wishes to avoid a conflict with the Empire. Jarl Hrolfdir of Markath, in exile by Madanach’s government, promises Ulfric and his supporters religious freedom should they take back the Reach from the Reachmen. This is in blatant disregard of the White-Gold Concordat.

Ulfric leads a militia across Skyrim to the Reach where they took back Markarth. A few Reachmen leaders were imprisoned, though others were killed, along with most of their warriors, though some were driven off into the surrounding wilds. The survivors in exile began to call themselves the Forsworn. They attack Nords and the Empire indiscriminately due to anger and feelings of betrayal.

Most of the Reachmen leaders are killed. However, allegedly at the request of the Silver-Blood family, Madanach is taken prisoner and held in the depths of Cidhna Mine. The Forsworn claim that the Nords, under Jarl Hrolfdir and Ulfric Stormcloak, took back the city through an excess of unnecessary violence, putting to death or imprisoning anyone who had even spoken to Madanach or said his name. It is also said that the family members of those who were deemed to be against the Nords’ rule were imprisoned or killed, even down to young children. Purported Imperial propaganda puts forth that Ulfric himself killed everyone in Markarth who would not join his cause.

It is true that there was bloodshed and death of innocents during the retaking of Markarth. The factuality of this claim can be traced to those Reachmen who survived the incident, sharing their experiences twenty-five years afterward.

Jarl Hrolfdir was assassinated during attempted peace talks with the Forsworn after the retaking of Markarth. It may be that the incident only grew violent after this point due to Nordic retaliation.

Why would Ulfric and Jarl Hrolfdir use that much unnecessary violence and brutality against the Reachmen if they intended to negotiate with them afterward?

Perhaps Igmund instigates the brunt of the violence against the Reachmen following his father’s death.

Jarl Hrolfdir was marked for death by the Dark Brotherhood. It is unknown who performed the Black Sacrament on the Jarl. It is possible someone from outside the conflict placed the contract on Jarl Hrolfdir’s head as a means of sewing chaos between the opposing sides (it could have been Igmund or Raerek [crack theory; maybe the brother was trying to Lion King his way into power and failed miserably? Or one of them opposed making peace with the Reachmen], or perhaps it was the Aldmeri Dominion?). Regardless, the Jarl’s death is the probable instigator for the deaths of many of the Reachman remaining in Markarth.

The Imperial Legion shows up not long after the city is retaken. They are seemingly thankful that Ulfric’s militia took back the Reach. When Ulfric lets them into the city, he asks that they recognize the free worship of Talos that Jarl Hrolfdir had legalized in the Reach; otherwise, the Legion would be fought off. The Imperial Legate (or general?) present at the time okays Ulfric’s request, effectively breaking the White-Gold Concordat. Again. Not long after, the Thalmor discovered this and took issue with this breach of treaty. They give the Empire an ultimatum: disband Talos worship in the Reach or prepare for the Great War to be renewed.

Ulfric and his followers are arrested and imprisoned by the Empire as Talos worship is again banned. The Empire must crack down on cases of Talos worship across the province. In consequence of the incident, the Thalmor gain access to Skyrim for their Justiciars through an Embassy. This is allegedly to enforce the terms of the White-Gold Concordat after it had been broken by the Nords in Fourth Era 176/7, but on an underground level, this allows the Thalmor to hunt, capture, and torture suspected Talos worshippers. The coming of the Thalmor Justiciars to Skyrim is technically a domino effect caused by Ulfric’s demand for free and open Talos worship.

Jarl Hrolfdir’s assassination happens during Ulfric and his supporters imprisonment. It may be possible that it was Ulfric OR one of his men who performed the Black Sacrament (though how could they do this while in an Imperial prison? Ulfric had to smuggle out his eulogy for his father’s funeral – what is the Imperial prison smuggling system like? Could any of them have had access to a dead body? Smuggled in or that of a fellow prisoner?). Whoever performed the Black Sacrament on Jarl Hrolfdir is the root cause for the retribution killings of the Reachmen. (Perhaps it was Thonar Silver-Blood?)

Ulfric is an uncooperative asset to the Thalmor, not because he ever cooperated with them in the first place, but because he is the (unintended) reason they have such a strong foothold in Skyrim now.

#yes I know the timeline is conflicted by different parties #but since tes lore is conflicting all the time i reserve to take what makes sense to me and run like oblivion #ulfric is at fault here not because he crazy killed people but because he was a stupid guy in his late 20s and he didn't get subtlety yet #i guess? also how long after his imprisonment/torture by the dominion was this? dude's head was HOT #kinda thought igmund would be the funny choice here but nah a silver blood makes more sense #everyone here is an idiot except hoag who had the good sense to NOT be a part of this #this is important now because leara is going to markarth in keeping count act ii and I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED HER TO MEET MADANACH #saw a thing comparing madanach to nerevar indoril as they both were the only ones to unite the warring tribes/clans/house of their people #i also need to take a crash course in reachmen and figure out what the HECK cael's deal is #neither cael nor the markarth incident were supposed to be in keeping count AND YET HERE WE ARE #gladly accept feedback and thoughts but also please don't hurt me lore is too messy and he said she said what even the crap to get mad abou #I didn't know you were keeping count #ulfric stormcloak #markarth incident #forsworn #the great war #the elder scrolls #tes #skyrim #mod post #stuff like this is why I don't do lore posts #lore #meta #maybe? dunno ANYWAY #aldmeri dominion #madanach

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joshuaalbert · 1 year

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tbh i do think changeling jack would have been a better option like. first of all i think just actually sticking to the changeling plot, rather than the antagonists being the changelings and the borg in an alliance that i guess doesn’t not make sense but ultimately brushes aside the changeling stuff at the end probably would have been better, but i also think there’s some potentially interesting stuff in there. again with the caveat that this is kind of operating off of like...not totally changing the setup but trying to do something better with the same beginning.

like ok loose concept 20 years prior to ep 1 beverly picks up this kid while she’s on a mission in the wake of the dominion war and initially doesn’t know he’s a shapeshifter or anything, just that he’s a child who needs help. he’s on her ship for a while and she gets kind of attached to him, especially when he shows an early interest in medical stuff, but at some point she gets confronted by some subset of starfleet that’s after him, and it comes out that he’s a changeling who did something bad in an attempt to escape capture by starfleet and they’re here to take him back.

and like. she’s gotten to know him, and she feels protective of this kid and she believes he was genuinely acting out of fear and possibly reacting to mistreatment, whereas their charges seem. kind of questionable? they feel like the result of paranoia in the wake of the dominion war and she doesn’t trust the people that are going to bring him in to treat him fairly, and she’s already somewhat more disillusioned with starfleet than she used to be because she’s already lost one son to starfleet ideals and is starting to regard jack as another, so that questioning really gets kicked into overdrive here on a broader scale. she makes the choice to protect this kid that she’s gotten attached to and they escape, but they have to go on the run, and that’s why she’s been off the grid for so long. she raises him, and they do their medical thing, but eventually they run into trouble and she doesn’t know where else to turn, so she reaches out to picard and tells him not to involve starfleet (both because they’re potentially compromised but also because her trust in them is still not at an all time high)

and then also since that’s dealing with the dominion war and that story belongs to ds9 i would have loved to bring back sisko (probably like. as at least a 2-3 episode arc, one of which replaces the episode w/ro laren bc i love her and all but she deserved better and we could have made the points that were made there in other ways). like. put him face to face with picard for the first time since the ds9 pilot and have them reassess each other after this time. i don’t know exactly how i’d see that dynamic playing out but i think bringing them back together to try to negotiate a threat would be super interesting AND like. i would really love to see picard going to sisko for advice about fatherhood tbh. maybe picard has read jake’s work and is familiar with the fact that they have a very close relationship so in trying to bond with jack he realizes sisko could be a really good person to learn from, even if they’ve had personal struggles in the past (and even if they’re never like Friends now). idk feels like a way to bring sisko back in and give him some closure that would have worked thematically on multiple levels.

like idk i dont have a whole plot seeing as ive been thinking about this for. not very long. but by focusing more on the changeling plot and giving it personal relevance we can focus on questioning starfleet and the federation, and how having to question these things picard has dedicated his whole life to affects his identity, but ideally to me the conflict would be one that shows the potential for positive change.

#for context the answer to 'why are you writing so many long ass posts' is usually a combination of mild hypomania + writing going badly #so you can just. act on that assumption in the future lmao.#like i said in the last post i dont really like the setup but even with it there were more interesting things that could have been done #and like...idk weird changeling kid jack trying to figure his shit out in the space where the dominion war is over but people are still #kinda weird about people like him is infinitely more interesting to me than specialest borg guy jack #even if ultimately i would prefer that they just. didn't do a secret child plot at all lmao #(as a side note i dont love the ds9 episode that comes to a kind of like. well people will always just be prejudiced conclusion #but i do think there's a difference between 'that's just always how it'll be' and showing people actively making an effort to be better)#i honestly have no idea if anything i've said today makes any sense wahoo but here we are babey!!#pic #picard spoilers #san rant #changeling!jack

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