#irredeemable. there was no excuse and there is no excuse for supporting someone who for four years has been walking the US into fascism with

[nyancrimew]

Sorry, it was unfair of me to send that to you without proper context since you might not be aware of these issues. Irredeemable media refers to any thing with a creator or content  that is harmful and/or bigoted. Of course every piece of media has problems, but irredeemable media is when those problems cannot be ignored and are an indicator of someone's beliefs. 

For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. Also, I know the "to be cringe is to be free" people like your blog, but a lot of the time, what is considered cringey on here is actually based on what is irredeemable. No progressive person or reputable blogger genuinely makes fun of My Little Pony fans any more, however plenty make fun of Hazbin Hotel fans and the such because that content is irredeemable and shows someone's beliefs. So usually, a piece of media being considered embarassing to like on here usually indicates that it is irredeemable.

As for why the other pieces of media are irredeemable, Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of bigotry against her and has drawn zoophilia art, not to mention how her work leans into stereotypes about gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. Attack on Titan is created by a known fascist and many illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism in the anime. Captive Prince has a racist premise that sexualizes slavery and non-con. 

People can tell you that liking irredeemable media doesn't say something about who they are, but that's fundamentally false. If someone is uncaring enough to still post openly about these types of media, it's clear they don't care enough about not supporting bigotry. Yes, even if they don't give money to the creators, because they are still willingly exposing themselves to bigoted or harmful content and enjoying it.

The previous ask was not meant to be accusatory. Rather it was meant as a concerned question. Believe it or not, there are still some users on here who indulge in these pieces of content, a few of which hide behind the excuse of being part of a minority (Black, trans, whatever) or simply deny how bad their media consumption is to escape accountability. I wouldn't want you associating with those types of people and have that ruin your reliability on this website.

Hopefully this ask has educated you more on these issues and you'll be able to spot irredeemable media in the future and block it out.

incredible essay, you get a C for Creativity

[unbidden-yidden-deactivated20240]

There are two related things I've noticed coming from the left that I really want people to examine deeply in themselves, because it's a major problem that I see happening over and over again. The whole I/P issue is the most currently salient example, but it is one of many.

1. There's this tendency towards retributive justice, wherein the solutions proposed fail to take into account whether the proposed punishment is at all proportional to the alleged crime, but rather is just treated as the natural consequence of that action.

2. This same principle is also extended backwards in time and used to excuse violence post hoc that they might not have chosen as an ideal punishment but have nevertheless decided was deserved because that person [allegedly] did something bad.

Both betray an underlying punitive or retributive justice mentality, where the goal is not restoration or reconciliation + accountability, but rather punishment. (There are some interesting religious and cultural aspects to this I could get into but don't want to derail this post.)

This untethering of crime to punishment in terms of (a) due process, (b) proportionality of punishment to the crime, and (c) a failure to consider restorative justice, reconciliation, and teshuva processes instead of retribution leads to monstrous and morally bankrupt results.

Put another (blunter, crasser) way: the left's longstanding hard-on for vigilante violence is a critical failure that undermines the entire movement.

You cannot base your politics on humanism, compassion, and due process out one side of your mouth and then cheer on vigilante violence, cruel and unusual punishment, and mob mentality out the other. It doesn't work like that.

Now I understand that sometimes armed resistance is necessary. People living under authoritarian and inhumane conditions may, out of necessity, turn to guerrilla warfare and unofficial armed resistance in self-defense. But even that has limits. When leftists fantasize about death by curb stomping or slitting someone's throat as a good thing, they are imagining this happening to armed fascists, Nazis, white supremacists, or possibly other categories of irredeemable people such as domestic abusers who maim or kill their partner &/or children, pedophiles, human traffickers, etc.

What they aren't imagining is the other side of that coin, which is the alt-righter who murdered Heather Heyer with his car, abortion clinic bombers, violent Q-anoners or terrorists. Each of those people also believe in the justice of their actions and their entitlement to act as arresting officer, judge, jury, and executioner.

"But those people are wrong!"

So? Why do you get to decide that for everyone? What about the people who think YOU are wrong?

There's a reason courts and due process exist. It's the same reason why "free speech" protects the speech you hate, why freedom of the press protects that rag whose opinions you hate, and why free exercise of religion protects shitty religious groups you wish to see gone. It's because we live in a society and you aren't the arbiter of justice for everyone. If you give in to that mentality, you will inevitably end up in a "might makes right" society, which never ends well, particularly for marginalized people.

If you wouldn't accept l'chatchila a certain punishment being administrated by a court of law without outcry and protest for human rights abuses, then don't cheer it on b'dievad. Either rape is unacceptable or it's not. Either torture is unjustifiable or it isn't. Either maiming is an acceptable punishment for certain crimes or it isn't. You either support the death penalty by certain methods (beheading, burned alive, strangled, hacked apart, stoning, hanging, etc.) or you don't. Collective punishment is either acceptable or it isn't. Vicarious punishment is either acceptable or it isn't.

All of those things are either human rights abuses, or they aren't. All of them fall outside even the rules that might permit self-defense or guerrilla warfare or other uprisings of the oppressed.

Due process is the same - either you believe in due process and the right to a fair and timely trial, or you don't. The moment you support one extrajudicial punitive killing, you have opened the door to the justification of murder, provided the killer has sufficient justification.

It's true that the rules of armed conflict and war are different, but that they exist at all is relevant here too. The reason they exist is to minimize suffering during an event that is guaranteed to cause great suffering. It's the same reason why the laws of self-defense are different than the laws of intentional murder.

The truth is that in order to live in a just and civilized society, there must be specific rules that govern the administration of conflict resolution and harm. These rules must be enforced consistently and equally, and the decider of fact must have reasonable access to the evidence that exists. The state or any court of law or other tribunal must render its decision in the most impartial way possible, even for the worst, most obviously guilty people. Even those that commit heinous crimes must be given those same rights. Without those safeguards, you create the opportunity for bad faith actors to label their undesirable groups or individuals as whatever category people find so despicable that they fall out of being considered human and lose their claim to human rights protections. It must therefore be impossible to forfeit your right to due process and freedom from vigilantes and mobs.

[thestreamdreampony]

Me adding my two cents is probably not gonna do much, but here I go, I guess:

I want to preface this with saying that Wilbur's content and Lovejoy have been incredibly important to me and I've put a lot of time, effort and money into supporting Lovejoy especially. So finding out about this, before finding out about the details, I had originally reacted with incredulous derision of twitter stans. And then erring on the side of caution about how things developed.

At this point there's almost no question that it's Wilbur, for the simple reason that Shubble would have cleared up his name if it wasn't. There's no way she would throw someone innocent under the bus, if she knew somebody else was guilty. Additionally, not a single person in Wilbur's surroundings has disputed any claims and have only narrowed it down further towards Wilbur. At this point it is incredibly unlikely she is talking about anybody else.

I do want to take a moment to comdemn those (mostly on twitter) who used this opportunity to dig into both Shubble and Wilbur's private lives, trying to construct a narrative of her abuse and in some cases going so far as doxxing Wilbur. It is entirely possible to support Shelby and condemn her abuser, without invading their privacy and endangering people's lives. Shelby's goal was to warn people and to make them more aware of the signs of abuse. As well as make it as clear as possible, who she's talking about without saying who it is directly, for a meriad of possible reasons. It was not an invitation to write abuse fanfiction about her private life.

That being said, the way I will feel about this in the long run will depend heavily on how Wilbur deals with this situation. I will definitely distance myself either way (slowly but surely), but his reaction to this will influence how I will act moving forward.

Should he stay silent or respond with insincerity/derision/defensiveness/etc., then that's it for me. Fuck him.

But should he come forward, own up to it, apologize and prove that he is working on himself, then I might be able to find it in myself to give him a second chance over time. I just don't believe that doing bad things makes you irredeemable forever and ever and ever.

We know for a fact that Wilbur has been struggling with mental health problems for most of his teen and adult life and from his solo music we are also aware that he is incredibly aware of the fact that he is the problem in his relationships. Expressing dark thoughts in music, does not automatically mean somebody is abusive. In fact, creating dark art is an excellent way to deal with harmful thoughts and impulses. I have literally never taken his lyrics to mean that.

However, his lyrics in YCGMA and MSR have always been incredibly autobiographical and do show that he is acutely aware that he's the unhealthy element in his unhealthy relationships.

We also know directly from him, that he has distanced himself from most of his social circle and sought out therapy as recently as 2 weeks ago in an effort to improve his mental health.

This does not excuse his actions whatsoever. Mentally ill people are still responsible for the harm that they cause and Shelby is unbelievably brave to tell their story. I hope they finds peace, I hope she has all the support she could ever need and I hope she has achieved her goal of making people more aware of how people end up in situations like this. She is an inspiration for standing up for herself like this.

But I also think that, should Wilbur come forward, admit to his wrongdoings and prove over time that he is working on becoming a better person, friend and partner, that he does not have to be shunned forever and ever and ever. He has a long life in front of him and I hope both for him and all his future friends and partners that he manages to find a healthy, happy way of living. This can happen, even while he never bothers Shelby, or the other people he hurt, again.

This is a best case scenario. I do think he is allowed to take some time to formulate a response. A hasty response to situations like this have never helped anyone ever, neither the victim, nor the accused. Taking his time to come to terms with the situation, which surely came as a shock, and to really think about how he wants to deal with this situation is much better than him writing a twitlonger as soon as he finds out.

Either way, I will distance myself from him and Lovejoy, slowly but surely. I won't get rid of the merch clothing I own because it was quite expensive and throwing it away is a waste of perfectly good clothing, but I won't find the joy I once felt wearing them. (I am salty about me being gone from home for a few months and having ordered Lovejoy merch, which had been waiting for me for weeks and then finding out about this literally the day I travelled back. It definitely felt weird as hell to unpack that stupid NORMAL longsleeve with his fucking face on it, while being hurt and confused and angry.)

Listening to Lovejoy's music, likewise, will never feel as euphoric as it once did, even if I go back to it. Which really sucks cuz they genuinly hit my sweet spot in music taste. YCGMA and SISV specifically, have been so, so important to me and removing them from my listening rotation i going to Hurt.

Interestingly, I don't feel quite as terrible as last time I had to suddenly cut a content creator out of my life. So I guess practice makes perfect lmao.

I don't know if me writing and posting this had any point. I guess I just wanted to get it off my chest and maybe it resonates with somebody.

Anyway, take care of yourselves. Take it easy and try to focus on other things, if this hit you hard (ideally offline). Try to meet with friends, maybe play some boardgames (or video games), go for a walk,read a book, have a coffee with a loved one. There's joy in the world, despite it all.

[maria-sand-22]

People angry with rhys for assigning cassian to nesta damage control and rehabilitation and angry with cassian for being to strict and harsh with her and not making excuses for her behaviours is insane

You really just want rhysand to release nesta into velaris when she took more power from the cauldron than she can handle so she can roam amongst the fae children of his court that she hates so much? If I found out that the leader of my nation released his drunken impulsive abusive racist against our race suster in law who is also overpowered and capable of k*lling us all I'd be rioting the next day.

For all he knew as well there wasn't anyone in his IC who wasn't in danger around her except cassian, he's her mate rhysand probably can't imagine any fae would be capable of harming their mate whether they want them or not.

And for the people thinking nesta wasn't that bad and wasn't a danger to the people of velaris feyre didn't mind killing a fae man she didn't know for the simple crime of being fae, nesta hated fae 50 times more than feyre with 50 times less compassion and Impulse control than her, and for all rhysand knew from feyre's memories she was the devil himself nobody was safe around her except the person she physically couldn't bring herself to hurt;

- she literally never cared about feyre's life when the beast came to take her she only protected elain while letting feyre get taken

- she would constantly verbally abuse feyre to the point of irreversible damage to her character and self esteem

“His snarl set the flames of the candles guttering. 'You aren't what I had in mind for a human- believe me.'

I could almost feel the wound deep in my chest as it ripped open and all those awful, silent words came pouring out. Illiterate, ignorant, unremarkable, proud, cold- all spoken from Nesta's mouth, all echoing in my head with her sneering voice."

"I needed new boots, but Elain needed a new cloak, and Nesta was prone to crave anything someone else possessed."

"[...] I glanced at Nesta’s stillshiny pair by the door. Beside hers, my too-small boots were falling apart at the seams, held together only by fraying laces."

“What do you know?” Nesta breathed. “You’re just a half-wild beast with the nerve to bark orders at all hours of the day and night. Keep it up, and someday—someday, Feyre, you’ll have no one left to remember you, or to care that you ever existed.”

She refused to help even though everyone was in danger. “Find somewhere else,” Nesta said again, straight-backed. “I don’t want them in my house. Or near Elain.”

On top of that, Nesta loves to read and she never wanted to teach her younger sister how to read, but there was no problem in encouraging Feyre to hunt while Nesta herself was sitting at home.

"The story is told from Feyre's point of view and she may not have interpreted it correctly." Yes, because there are really many interpretations for your older sister to leave you to die while hugging the other sister. Thank you, next.

If Nesta was a man he would've been an irredeemable monster after acosf, because for an abuser she never truly redeemed herself or expressed any true remorse through actions rather than internal thoughts

Remorseful abusers don't try to hurt their victims further by dragging their reputation through the mud when they take them into their new home

Remorseful abusers don't try to attack or alienate their victims support system

Remorseful abusers don't try to rationalise or excuse 5heir abuse

They simply accept that they F'ed up and live with and accept the consequences of their actions such as their victim struggling to trust them again, their victims loved ones disliking them or never forgiving them, etc..

[gerardpilled]

literally stop being an mcr fan then! why can you forgive gerard but not lynz? everyone will pretend they support the idea of allowing someone to learn and grow and change but then they'll see a woman and go oh no not her she's irredeemable like? the double standards are ridiculous

It’s so crazy… I’ve seen countless people say that she needs to explicitly apologize for her actions and yeah I guess that would be nice. I just think it's a more complicated and nuanced situation than it might seem. Her apologizing for being in msi and participating in complicit racism would implement a lot of people and make them guilty by association. It would imply everyone including the sound guys who worked shows would then be connected to "having worked for a racist band" and could seriously complicate relationships - both working and not.

Also, I sometimes really don't understand why this is a discussion worthy of so much time other than reflecting on the atmosphere that allowed such a band to rise within the scene? (I think there's a real meaningful conversation to be had about the excusing of racism from a lot of people within the alt music scene even today.)The band hasn’t toured since 2014? Acts like Marilyn Manson - who among all his other crimes also used racial slurs as shock value - is actively touring. And for the double standards - Frank fucking toured with msi in 2013 like why not cancel him for that LOL!!! Or god forbid, Gerard for working with Jimmy Urine in 2018.

Even forgiving Gerard for saying he’s Japanese while dogpiling Lindsey for saying she’s partially Indian when she doesn’t even know her birth dad is wild to me. The tweets are very similar to each other - and neither of them have apologized? I've seen people start excusing Gerard's tweet, extrapolating info like "he must have taken a DNA test" well, there's no proof of that, and why not extend that benefit of the doubt to Lindsey? Like yes, she shouldn’t have said it but Gerard shouldn’t have either! I also just can't help but think there are more important issues oh my god!!! I've seen people - both Indian and East Asian alike - express discomfort with both Lindsey's and Gerard's actions, and I completely understand that! I just only ever see Lindsey's held to such irredeemable levels, and that's usually by white people who I personally feel are overstepping their role. I just can't help but think some white people do not have meaningful, real life, conversations with the demographics they are supposedly advocating for.

I am definitely not the person to absolve her of her sins or excuse anything she’s done and people she’s hurt, but do people (and I mean primarily other white people who - from my experience - are mainly the ones posting hate about her) realize she has probably been the most clear and explicit about her anti-racist learning curve? Out of anyone even remotely connected to mcr, she has posted and done more direct funding and outreach for Black organizations than anyone. Yes, that’s Twitter activism and doesn’t exactly amount to much in the grand scheme of things, but if people who hate her judge her off of her internet footprint, why not use the same to realize maybe she has learned?

I recently tried to see if she had acknowledged any of her faults publicly- and to my shock - she has!

I’m not saying this is the best response to every thing but I also never saw this mentioned ever before.

I truly think some of the worst stuff she’s done is publicly support Jimmy Urine after the allegations came out but again everyone who just spreads that as a fact completely misses the context of her ex friend spreading unhinged rumors about her for like a year before those allegations came out. Jessicka Adams accused Gerard of sexual misconduct and started claiming that Lindsey was in cahoots with a man who accused Jessicka of sleeping with him when he was underage. Truly unhinged stuff.

If I was Lindsey and my ex-friend was doing that, purposefully targeting people close to me, I also might immediately assume she was behind those against the lead singer of my old band! She should NOT have voiced her suspicions publicly, and I do think that was wrong, but it’s not like she doubled down on it since? I know a lot of people would like to think they would act differently if they were in her shoes, but really think about it! If allegations that arose online came out against a man you called a friend - who you let watch your daughter - would you immediately publicly turn against him? She should have apologized when it became clear the allegations were not unfounded, but even when the news first broke she was liking tweets which better explained her mindset. Also last I heard, they are no longer friends at all.

Again with the double standards though. I've seen no noise around Mikey’s wife publicly defending wife abuser Johnny Depp (a person she does not even know) when he won his trial? Or the fact that Gerard was also very good friend with Jimmy and most likely shares a similar opinion as his wife?

I've also seen people say things like "well she should have known because of all the signs" I think this a dangerous oversimplification. What about the band No Devotion? Everyone loves them here. They formed after their old lead singer was exposed as rapist with multiple situations of him sleeping with young girls on tour. Why didn't those guys know about it?

I also just feel like using this case a justification to hate her alongside stuff like "she made a mikey hate blog!!" (she didn't) just feels so wrong to me. It’s like people are happy this happened to a woman because it gives justification to hate Lindsey. I see no attempts to support this Jane Doe with tweets of support or some kind of fundraiser. It's always just rooted in hatred of another woman.

[altocat]

I really appreciate you addressing someone's recent controversial opinion about Sephiroth's character. We don't excuse or condone what he did before and after Nibelheim, but we certainly do understand why he did. As for the claims that he was a "100% selfish monstrosity who never thought about others", do you agree or disagree with this person's take?

I think Sephiroth was far from selfish. This is the guy who all but instantly jumped forward to donate blood to Genesis. The guy who consistently refused orders to kill. The guy who told Genesis point blank that he could HAVE his glory, who reminisced about Angeal with a smile, who diverted his entire mission to Modeoheim just to check on Zack and give him permission to see his girlfriend. What happened between him and his friends was NONE of their faults. They each react in ways according to how Shinra molded them. They were all pawns in a larger scheme.

Sephiroth isn't selfish. He didn't want to kill them. He was worrying himself sick to the point of physical starvation. He was likely worrying about them constantly. He is not responsible for them leaving, or joining them for that matter, especially considering he had been conditioned and brainwashed into being loyal to Shinra his entire life since birth. I support showcasing the monstrous things he does to his victims. That's completely valid. But I don't condone victim blaming when it comes to Sephiroth's circumstances as well. The monster is Shinra. It created Sephiroth and it molded Sephiroth into what he is. The fact that Sephiroth was still capable of feeling compassion and care for his friends at all is impressive.

He IS a monster after Nibelheim, truly evil. But to suggest that he, basically Shinra's personal attack dog and science experiment, orphaned, trained solely to kill, expected to bear the burden of the entire organization's image is selfish? Sephiroth has never been allowed to be selfish. His life was never his own. Sephiroth, who only ever wanted to keep his friends beside him. Sephiroth, who committed covert treason just to avoid hurting them. Sephiroth, who knew he was never going to have a normal life since childhood, who didn't even bother to come up with what he even wanted to grow up to BE.

Sephiroth is the product of Shinra's sickness. But he was still able to feel for people, to be moved, to have them shape who he was. He wanted to be like them, part of them. He cared. And it was BECAUSE he cared so much that he ultimately lost his way. His feelings of betrayal are what manifest into rage and madness. It doesn't make what he did right, god no. But it makes him complex, and his irredeemable fate all the more tragic.

[henrysglock]

Okay okay okay hold up. I hate Henry as much as the next guy, but I thought we were all on the same page about one thing.

Henry Creel is a tragic villain, and you should be able to recognize his humanity before the Hawkins Lab Massacre.

Like...the point of showing that he was abused by both his family and the lab was supposed to give us a cause and effect for why he is the way he is, like they did with Billy's backstory. It showed us that there was a good long time when he was still within reach, when he was a boy who was suffering and no one came to save him.

Monsters are created, not born. There's no child that's born evil. Hatred is a learned behavior. There's a clear cause and effect, and that's important to the narrative surrounding Will and Henry.

The combined lack of love, support, and safety leads to the monstrous man we see in s4. The lack of those things is what makes him into Will's narrative foil.

Will had a strong support network that loved him and did their damndest to keep him safe, so we see someone warm and loving and relatively not jaded. Henry was constantly abused and imprisoned with no one to protect him, so we see someone cold and bitter and filled with hatred. Narrative foils.

Granted, Henry may have been predisposed to acts of violence as a child, but what makes him a monster is what he chooses to do as an independent man after he's granted the ability to free himself from his abuser. It's his actions and choices after that point that label him as a monster.

If he'd left the lab and disappeared after El removed Soteria, he'd be a neutral character. If he'd freed El too, after she removed Soteria, he might even be a tragic minor protagonist.

Henry Creel is a monster, of course. No one is saying he can or should be saved now. What's important to remember is that there was a time when he could have and should have been saved.

If you can't see that then you're missing the whole point of that narrative. His backstory, like Billy's, should inspire at least a touch of empathy/sympathy.

On a related note, there's an important distinction and continuum:

Will/Billy/Henry vs Hero/Anti-Hero/Villain

Will is a Hero and a victim. He was abused, and chose to destroy the cycle of abuse by being a loving friend, brother, and son.

Billy is an Anti-Hero, and he's irredeemable (not by the fact that he couldn't have changed but because he wasn't given the chance). We see that maybe, possibly, he could have become better. When shown compassion, he fought the Mindflayer and sacrificed himself to save everyone. It doesn't excuse anything he's done, but it shows us that had he been given a chance to escape his abusive situation and experience some perspective-altering events...He could have turned it around. He was 18, he still had an entire life in front of him. He may have been able to turn it around, but we'll never know, so based on the final narrative he's earned the label of irredeemable Anti-Hero.

Henry is a Villain and a monster. This is because he was given the opportunity to escape the cycle of abuse and instead chose to perpetuate it. He had a chance, after El removed Soteria, to kill Brenner and escape. He chose not to, instead murdering all the children in the lab, harming El, and going on to harm Will (plus the other victims). He lost his chance at redemption when he chose not to end the cycle of abuse. He became a Villain when he perpetuated it (the two were simultaneous in this case).

That's our Will/Billy/Henry continuum. Hero/Anti-Hero/Villain. Good/Mixture/Evil. All of them suffered abuse, and for each of them love and compassion were deciding factors in their response.

Will, shown continual love and compassion: Hero

Billy, only shown compassion immediately before death: Irredeemable Anti-Hero

Henry, never shown love or compassion: Villain.

It's a clear gradient.

That's the message of that narrative: Love saves people.

[ammyamarant]

I was talking to my sister recently about Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the topic of what I thought was the worst season popped up. Without hesitation, I said season 6.

And I stand by it. Everything in it, everything people are now saying is good actually, is only good on paper. Buffy depressed about being resurrected? And doing incredibly self-destructive things? Having to live without her mother and try and be a good guardian for Dawn? This is all good on paper! But the execution? We get a comedy episode for Buffy trying to get a job. Buffy getting, and failing at a new job, having to deal with both earning money and her duties as a Slayer could have been a short plotline where she couldn't balance it and it made things worse for her. It could have really shown just how much she struggled, and made her self-destruction hit even harder.

But it had to be a comedy episode.

I'm not saying Doublemeat Palace is the only example I have of how they fumbled showing her depression and inability to readjust after being resurrected. But it's the beginning of it, and indicative of how they fumbled showing it.

Willow and Tara having problems with their relationship? Even the best couples have conflicts. But the out of nowhere magic addiction? When it's never been hinted at that the reason Amy abused magic was an addiction, just moral failing when realizing what she could do with it? And then the sheer amount of shit Willow put Tara through? Tara was abused so badly by the writers. Fighting with Willow then having her memory wiped several times, breaking up with her, only to finally make up once Willow was able to admit she needed help only to be killed in the same episode?

No wonder Amber Benson was on board for the audiobook. Tara deserved better.

Xander and Anya? I'm sorry, Xander has a lot of flaws but he's not the type to leave someone at the alter just so Anya can have her own destructive arc. He'd be more likely to just call the entire thing off before the wedding if he was that afraid that it would turn into what happened with his parents.

The trio? Okay. So. I'm going to talk Arknights for a bit. After going through Code of Brawl, I joke about how much trouble Penguin Logistics gets into and how I don't know how they're still alive after their antics. But the difference between them and the trio is Penguin Logistics is also competent. Exuisai can lean out a car door to shoot rubber bullets at the essentially Italian Mafia guys chasing them and not die because she's, mechanically, a 6* unit who can be a boss killer on her own. This is nothing to her. Texas is the last surviving member of the Texas famiglia, and people constantly refer to her as very dangerous. Il Siracusano showed why. Of course being the driver and pulling off that shit is easy for her. In comparison, the only thing the trio has to offer is Warren was the form of "actually evil" that is oh you're evil evil. They should have never been a threat outside the fact Warren had no moral compass. They're constantly bumbling, and only a threat to Buffy because the plot said so.

Spike? Holy shit. He has more dignity than what he did in season 6, and the bathroom scene felt like a punishment for those who liked Spike enough to keep him around. Like "are you sure you like him? See! He's an irredeemable monster! Stop liking him." We already know Whedon hated how popular Spike was, and because of that, this incredibly out of character and just plain cruel scene can only feel like punishing those who liked him.

Tbh the more I think about it, the more I feel season 6 was a punishment for whoever wanted to keep it going. It's so unpleasant, and it is pretty much just dark for darkness's sake. The writing isn't strong enough to support anything they wanted to do and not have it come off as malicious. It's bad and no amount of good ideas can excuse execution.

Season 6 could have been a poignant look at grief, loss, depression, and self-destruction. Having a human being more evil than a demon and finally showing that the Willow we know really does have the capability to be as evil as her alternate vampire self could have been great, since we've never really had that. Even in season 4, the Initiative was more misguided than actually evil. Instead we got grimdark and out of character writing.

Season 6 sucks, is the worst season, and I will not be convinced otherwise.

[maya-matlin]

What common Degrassi takes do you most disagree with, ie Zig being cocky and smooth, etc!

1.) Obviously, that one LOL. If someone legitimately tries to argue that Zig "I'm terrible at pretty much everything" "But is it good enough for you?" Novak is confident.. they're objectively wrong. They're getting stuck on him looking the part of the confident, bad boy and ignoring half of what comes out of his mouth.

2.) Darcy isn't irredeemable or a bad person because she falsely accused Snake of being inappropriate with her. She was a scared, traumatized child who panicked because she was thrown into a situation where she would be forced to talk about her rape before she was ready. Snake handled all of that completely wrong, even though he meant well. It didn't come from a heartless, malicious place. She immediately tried to take it all back and openly supported his return to the school. His career wasn't ruined. He eventually became the principal. I genuinely don't understand where people's compassion is when it comes to this story line. Darcy wasn't the ideal victim. She was never supposed to be.

3.) None of the canonically lesbian characters should have been bisexual. Based on what we saw from each one introduced to us with the assumption that they were straight (Alex, Fiona, Zoe), their eventual coming out journeys made sense. Could they have been written with more care with an actual explanation as to how they came to identify this way? Absolutely. But I feel like the Degrassi fandom constantly invalidates their sexualities, especially with Zoe, because they're upset they no longer get to justify shipping them with men.

4.) Don't kill me, but Eli calling Clare a whore wasn't out of character. It was cruel and he had zero excuse, but based on the number of times Eli lashed out at Clare and other people, it makes total sense that he'd say the worst possible thing he could think to say under the mistaken impression that he'd been wronged. He was hurt and angry, and he wanted her to feel bad. He behaved in a similar way after their first breakup.

5.) Jimmy wasn't the perfect boyfriend. In fact, Jimmy never gets enough shit for being so passive aggressive in relationships, particularly when he's ready to end it and emotionally invested in another girl. But because he's cowardly, something we saw pretty consistently over the years, he waits for his girlfriends to notice so that he doesn't have to be the bad guy and can play innocent. Overall, there are little things about Jimmy that bug me, such as calling Ashley a slut. And on that note, this fandom is way too comfortable openly enjoying slut shaming when they feel like the character is unlikable or irritating enough to "deserve it" (Clare and Ashley).

6.) Obligatory reminder that Zig didn't murder Cam due to his depression leading to his suicide and multiple things over the course of a couple of days playing a role in the headspace Cam was in when he ended his life

7.) Liberty was completely fucked over during her pregnancy arc. Excuse me. JT's pregnancy arc. It was blatantly racist how the show chose to be revolutionary by focusing on the black pregnant girl's white boyfriend for the entirety of her pregnancy. Liberty was the villain in her own story line because the writers really wanted us to understand how much pressure JT was under due to expecting a child, worrying about finances, his life changing drastically, etc. Things must have been rough for Liberty as well, but meh. She's just a bitter, controlling, bitch who never deserved JT. Seriously, I see that take a lot. In my opinion, they both could have handled things better, but neither was getting the help or support they needed. Liberty seemed to be in denial and couldn't cope with the fact she'd allowed herself to become pregnant due to carelessness when she's supposed to be so responsible. A lot must have been going on with her, both mentally and emotionally, but we never hear about it or see any of it.

8.) Clare and Drew were actually a good (no, great) ship. Many fans just weren't prepared or happy to see either with someone else due to the popularity of the Eli/Clare and Drew/Bianca relationships. It also wasn't random, out of character, or even all that forced based on how their characters had grown through the years. It's funny to see Clare described as being not Drew's type when he's pretty consistently into smart, ambitious women who can put him in his place. And in the case of Clare, her preferences are all over the place with Drew not being all that different physically or personality wise from KC or Jake. Their emotional connection grew and deepened for almost the entirety of season 13, including the summer between school years and for the majority of their senior year. Even though their decision to sleep together was impulsive and surprising, in reality they'd been circling each other for months. It was bound to happen, and then it did.

9.) Another thing I disagree with is that Maya should have talked about Cam more or told ___ about his suicide. It was very obvious to me that Maya was extremely triggered by Cam's death and struggled to move past it. It makes perfect sense that she'd struggle to even talk about it. It was extremely painful and personal to Maya. Miles was never going to be the one she opened up to. He just wasn't. This isn't even necessarily a pro Zaya thing. But the fact Zig was around for Cam's death and understood most of Maya's pain meant that Maya opening up to Zig about the way she was feeling and acknowledging her ex's existence was far more likely than Maya opening up to Miles, someone she struggled to open up to emotionally or relate to beyond what he was willing to share. At a certain point, it starts to feel like Maya bringing up Cam for the sake of bringing up Cam. Not because it's actually helping Maya or moving her story forward in any way.

10.) Tristan's biphobia towards Miles didn't happen in a vacuum. While Tristan's character was extremely flawed and he wasn't always the most likable person, it honestly came across to me that his biphobia got so out of control because it took the writers a long time to catch on to the fact that Tristan invalidating his boyfriend's sexual orientation was inappropriate, dehumanizing, and shouldn't have been written off as catty comments not meant to be taken seriously. Degrassi overall didn't handle polysexual identities very well. Paige's attraction to women was downplayed aside from her relationship with Alex. Imogen was also never labeled, eventually being referred to multiple times during her final season as a lesbian.

11.) Lola got the right endgame, and she definitely shouldn't have kept Miles's baby.

[bluespiritshonour]

IDK why Azula stans hate acknowledging the fact that Azula is both abused and an abuser? Do you know why?

Okay. I gotta make one thing clear: I really like Azula. Is she terrible? Yeah. Is she iconic? Uh... Also yeah.

I really like Azula and I have no problem acknowledging that she's a terrible, terrible person. And a villain.

This is not aimed at you for asking the question, anon. I just wanted to clarify that I absolutely love both Azula and Zuko. 😅

And for that I've often had people come at me for posts that slightly favoured one over the other like—guys, I like them both? They both also have flaws? They both also did horrible things and committed war crimes?

The only difference is that Zuko got a redemption arc while Azula didn't. But... Pointing out one's mistakes in one post doesn't mean I'm trashing them.

Azula did abuse Zuko. She was also abused by Ozai. She and Zuko were both abused by Ozai and in some ways, Zuko had a support system that she didn't.

They both also suffered. But in different ways. Azula had her father's approval but never his love. Her abuse was psychological. While Zuko's was physical and psychological. They're both children abused by a terrible father.

After Zuko breaks free of his need for his father's approval you see that he doesn't hate Azula anymore. Pre-redemption Zuko would've rejoiced winning an Agni Kai against her.

(Which he would've never won because pre-redemption Zuko would also never have accepted Katara's help and she's technically the one who defeated Azula).

But Zuko that has matured simply feels bad for her because no one knows better than him what growing up with their father is like.

Azula looks out for him too. Like, when she knows he's visiting Iroh in prison and doesn't rat him out. She warns him to be careful. She's a lot more brainwashed than he is—but she's also younger!

It's just... complicated.

As someone who loved Azula because she was efficient—and who also loves Zuko because of everything!—like, damn that kid faced the consequences of his actions, didn't he?—well, it doesn't have to be a fight?

To answer your question, I've seen both Azula stans and Zuko stans that do not want any sort of nuance.

I think it has to do with internet extremism and purity culture. People no longer think “I don't like it”—they have to put a “this is morally wrong” spin on it.

I like Azula and she's a terrible person. Doesn't mean she's irredeemable though. I'd love to see an Azula-redemption arc. Since she's a kid and she deserves to heal.

But I can also say that Azula and her war crimes are fictional, I think she's cool. What she does is wrong. People forget that you're allowed to like villains. You're allowed to like grey characters. And most of all, people really need to learn to distinguish between fiction and reality and where what is acceptable.

Which is why a present day piece of media can never pull off a redemption arc like Zuko's. Because of internet purity culture. Like, fuck it, people can barely handle Taigen!

It's okay to like Azula. You don't have to justify her actions for it. You're not a coloniser sympathiser for liking her as long as you realise what she did was wrong and accept it.

—Yours Sincerely,

A citizen of a formerly colonised country who's very painfully aware of the harms of imperialism.

Trying to use her abuse as an excuse isn't the way to go. Same for Zuko! I love ATLA because when Zuko apologies to the gaang, he doesn't once bring up his tragic past. It's not an excuse!

Anyways, anon. Thanks for the ask. I really needed to rant. Sorry it became this behemoth though. Haha.

TLDR: the reason is internet purity culture. People feel guilty for liking a villain. Trust me, liking a fictional bad guy—or a morally grey—or complicated guy—does not make you a bad guy. People need to learn to distinguish between fiction and reality.

And even then, in real life you need to learn what makes criminals if you're to stop crime. For example: how poverty leads to crime and eliminating poverty would go a long way in stopping crime than incarceration does. Like, how probably education and societal change where rape is as unthinkable as cannibalism would do more to prevent rapes than purity culture would. If you get what I mean.

[buffyspeak]

for the Character Asks, how about I give you your pick of any/all of our 3 established Gossip Girl Main Characters bc we're writing a whole show about these 3 rich dysfunctional gays lmao

hello YES! i enjoy our rich disaster gay trio sitcom (/dramedy) headcanon chats! work with for the other two so it would largely be headcanons anyway. i decided to go with jenny since the others don't have much canon to work with.

How I feel about this character: my beloved <3 more seriously, she's the character in gossip girl i find most interesting so this is going to be. long. anyway. she can be flawed and self-righteous and self-destructive and petty and she can be awfully, egregiously cruel, she knows how to take someone's insecurities or mistakes and hit them where it already hurts -- and despite all that, she's so sympathetic. because she's also ambitious and creative and starts off the show so optimistic and relatively happy-go-lucky, even with her parents' separation. she's cutthroat because she HAS to be, because she would never be able to hang in the upper east side if she wasn't, and that's the path she sees towards her dreams and doesn't she deserve her dreams? she knows she can hack it if she can just GET THROUGH THE DOOR. she's funny and charming and witty and SAD, sadder than i think anyone in the show realizes until she's imploded by the end of season three. she develops this armor of black clothes and sharp eyeliner and bitchy witticisms in season two and season three even moreso and so many people see this as character derailment or think it makes her awful or irredeemable somehow but i look at her and see a girl who's been tread on too many times, with chuck and with damien and with agnes and the guys in the club and what they almost did. with her father, even, and his lack of ability or willingness to understand where she's coming from, that she's not just sad or lonely at school, she's in DANGER. (evidence: the reference to the fact that apparently everyone except two girls in her chem class apparently tried to light her hair on fire?) so she builds up walls and she isolates and she makes decisions that maybe aren't great but she doesn't have the support she needs and all of this makes me feel so soft and sad for her and protective OF her and protective, even, of her right to be flawed, of her right to make mistakes. every other character in the show has equally (or even worse) egregious flaws that get excused or hand-waved by not only the fandom, by the narrative. jenny is held to a much different standard. the narrative screws her and casts her aside (and yes, i get that taylor momsen wanted to leave, i respect it, and i even respect that it's a teen drama and her exit was always going to be a little dramatic, but they did not have to do what they did) and if they didn't think all of this was the perfect storm for me to emotionally adopt her into the list of blorbos in constant rotation in my head-oven well. they've got another thing coming. tldr; jenny is the Born To Die trope except it's more like Metaphysical Innocence Born To Be "Corrupted". it's so clear what they're doing even in the pilot. i will go to my grave defending her.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: jenny x therapy LMAO. actually answer is uhhh idk. might be easier to give a list of my DEFINITE NOTPS (easily guessable, i'd assume.) i simultaneously DO headcanon jenny as having had a crush on blair and think they have interesting dynamic (and lots of angst and turmoil and admiration/jealousy psuedo-political warfare that makes me understand why people DO ship it) while also not really wanting it be like. A Thing. (i also think their relationship was too fraught and blair in particular was too awful to jenny for them to ever have a healthy romantic relationship, so.) i have... a soft spot for nate and jenny let's say? i don't think canon was the right time for them to be together, obviously, and i can easily see how some of her feelings could come across as comphet (especially with him being so constantly unavailable). at the same time, i think they have a lot of sweet moments that are rooted in like, affection and genuinely liking who the other person is. he's very gentle with her and i think jenny could have used a lot more gentle moments in the show. at the same time, i'm not sure they're ultimately the right fit for each other, and i don't really imagine that they're "end game", so to speak, but i do like reading the occasional post-canon fic about them. so that's where i land on them, i supposed. in actuality, i think jenny probably realizes she's queer in some capacity eventually, but that's a whole other question lmao.

My non-romantic OTP for this character: jenny and eric! but also jenny and dan! but also jenny and serena!! it's hard to pick lmao. i think the show does a pretty decent job showing the complexities of the friendship between jenny and eric given eric's limited screentime lmao. i think they hit something very grounded and real with eric and jenny's back and forth, which how much they love and need each other and also can't stand each other half the time, how their introduction was a really simple moment of jenny showing him compassion and him meeting her back with that effort full-force, with how they both value each other more than is common in heterosexual romance-based western cultures but also can't or won't or don't know that they need to or how to admit that to one another. it's a very honest depiction of a friendship at this age and of this kind, at least for me.

i was about to say that my feelings about dan and jenny are simpler, but i don't know if that's true? i might be repeating myself here, but if there's one thing gossip girl does well, it's grounded and realistic dynamics. they tease each other lightly and they tease each other too harshly sometimes, they fight, and they try to understand each other but often can't, they secret-keep for each other until that's no longer viable, and they do their best to protect one another and it's all just so balanced. one scene that stands out to me is when jenny steals the dress in season one and dan goes into talk to her and it's so clear he's had to take on somewhat of a parental role with her since their mom has been gone? and i'm sure that's frustrating for both jenny and for dan. but despite taking on this role of care, he doesn't treat her condescendingly or with any ire, he tries to be understanding and careful and thoughtful where rufus couldn't be. and while i'd say the show does a disservice to their relationship as time wears on, i think when dan gets the CHANCE to be a good big brother to her, he always always is. he tries to do right by her and even in her harsher, more isolating days, she still tries to trust him and lets herself be jenny around him moreso than she knows how to do with other people.

with jenny and serena -- i think i love what their dynamic could have been more than what it was? watching the pilot for the first time, i was sure there were going to be more big sisterly moments between them, but they end up going for conflict instead. which is understandable; like i said, it IS a drama. but serena tries so hard to be kind to jenny in the first season and while jenny wants to BE blair, i think serena's kindness lets her hold onto her dream a little longer, imagine that there's a world where she gets in with the in-crowd and someone like serena is there to back her up. i also think there's a really intriguing theme of jenny's arc paralleling what's serena's been through in terms of assault and sexual exploitation. the "the sixteen year old virgin" really exemplifies how serena WANTS to protect jenny from going down a path of self-destruction that could lead to her getting hurt even more. and just. that's an interesting but woefully underexplored dynamic. she also has the best approach (at first) in that episode which is to just like. talk to jenny like a peer. explain her worries over a shared pint of ice cream. it's only when she panics and starts Plotting that it becomes Too Much. anyway. there's a world in which their relationship was meatier and i want to live in it!

My unpopular opinion about this character: she deserved way better than the narrative throwing her under the bus to prioritize ch*ck.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: i think i wish dan would have found out somehow about jenny getting drugged by agnes. on the one hand, nate telling him maybe would Kind of Not Be Cool, buuut it's tv the characters are allowed to be flawed and messy. plus! it makes the most sense. i feel genuinely feel that if dan found that out, she would be able to open up to him and they would figure out what was best for her (going to stay with their mom for senior year, lots and lots of therapy) sooner and without the ch*ck of it all.

[lesbianyosano]

Just kind of a general plot question bcs I feel like I’m blanking here. I know that within the story one of the huge themes are cycles of abuse (specifically among the port mafia characters) like the whole mori-> dazai -> akutagawa-> kyouka(?) situation but for the life of me I can’t remember what exactly the dazai mori catalyst beginning of the cycle event was. Obviously odas death was the big betrayal of trust that broke dazai away from the mafia, and there was that whole killing the former pm leader deal(was that it though??) because Ik fandom has a tendency of portraying mori as this cartoonishly evil abuser when he’s more complex then that (even if I don’t personally like him lol) but I feel like I’m completely forgetting everything about that whole dynamic lol. I hope you have a great day!

honestly i dont think there really exists a catalyst like that. i think the discussion about mori and dazai's relationship tends to get really weird bc it's always treated as a singular abusive situation between the 2 of them, completely taken out of context. as in, "mori's an abusive creep and everyone around him actually hates him for it", with disregard for the context of his interactions with dazai.

they are both mafia members, their relationship cannot be a healthy and supportive one specifically because of that. mori's manipulation and grooming isn't out of place, it's what funtioning in that system requires of him, the same way it's what was later required of dazai with akutagawa. it's less about mori being someone who's personally irredeemable and more that mafia needs to continually raise its new members to continue to exist, the abuse is systematic and will never cease to be treated as a tool as long as the organization is still in place. i'd argue it's the reason why beast mori manages to change and become a much more sympathetic version of himself. his relationship with yosano is similar, the abuse takes place because the military allows it. obviously mori is still very much complicit, but his utalitarian approach can only go so far due to the lack of institutional response

and i think this perception of abuse as something that only exists, and is perpetrated on, on a personal level is also what leads to this weird mischaracterization of mori's relationship with chuuya and kouyou. you see this in fanfics a lot, when they both secretly hate him because he's a pedo and abused dazai, which is absolute bullshit. they don't hate him, they seem to enjoy spending time with him even when they don't need to. they are both extremely loyal and strive to keep as him the pm boss, neither ever raises concerns to how he treats dazai, and elise also never gets commented on. fundamentally, they are no better than him. they are a part of this same organisation and it is in their interest to keep the power structure as it is. kouyou tries to groom and manipulate kyouka, projecting onto her, similarly how mori does with dazai. chuuya talks about wanting q dead (despite the weirdly popular hc that they're close and familiar). and im not saying this because i think anyone should hate them, or that people need to love mori all of a sudden, but because ignoring this flattens all of them as characters. they are meant to be bad people, in huge part because they choose to be (they could all leave the mafia the way dazai did lmao)

mori (i think) gets the most hate also because of his perceived sexual deviancy. you see this a lot, where people will make non stop jokes about characters being murderers/war criminals and how it's actually fun and cool (it is), but the moment the crimes go into a territory of sexual offense (sometimes real and sometimes perceived), those crimes can no longer be excused, and everything else about the character is forgotten. the lolicon gag with mori and elise is. weird yeah and it's perfectly fine to be uncomfortable with it, but as far as we know, there is nothing to indicate mori has ever sexually abused a child, the deal with elise is unclear, even if there are some questionable comments. and again, im not saying this to make him more likable or to make him less of a creep, it's just that i dont think this characterizaton leads anywhere, other than a twisted perception of like. half of the cast

sorry for going off asdgsafhdf ive been meaning to talk about this and you have unfortunately given me space to do so </3

[miraculouscriticismshub]

MLB twitter be like :

SEASON 5 spoilers ahead 🛑🛑🛑

MLB twitter fandom : Chloe being 14 isn't an excuse to stage a coup in Revolution or any other crimes she committed. Her becoming a dictator and bullying people is unforgivable . She is beyond redemption and will never mature or become a better person in the future because she is a heartless spoiled brat ! Stop blaming Audrey for abandoning her because nobody wants to have someone like Chloe as their daughter. Her mother abandoning her ( which is Chloe's fault) doesn't excuse her for being an entitled witch. Andre had every right to disown her and replace her with Zoe because Chloe is SATAN !! Chloe's finally leaving Paris ? , MLB NATION WE WON !!! She deserves to be sent off to live with her abusive mother because she is an irredeemable racist monster. She's useless , utterly useless and should DIE IN HELL ! Anyone who feels a bit bad for her is mentally insane and deserves to DIE !! 🔪🔪🔪

Also MLB twitter fandom : Felix is only fourteen , still an innocent child. He's still so young and has his whole life ahead of him. A lot can change from teenage years to adulthood and Felix still has a lot to learn . This poor baby was traumatized so much by his Father that he will never be the same. He deserves to be excused for SA, Stalking and Kidnapping because he's a socially awkward cinnamon roll who's been sheltered for most of his life which is Colt's doing therefore Colt is to blame for everything because he is the ANTI-CHRIST !! This innocent little boy just wanted his freedom and only committed genocide to save his cousin and Kagami from the "evil humans". Can you really blame him for what he did ? Felix's killing spree will forever be ICONIC and his song was such a SLAY !! In this house , we STAN FELIX AND SUPPORT GENOCIDE !!! He keeps his Miraculous and joins the team in the end ?, Fathom Nation WE WON !!! Hope he lives happily ever after with Kagami and receives an apology from Ladybug because Felix is Jesus Christ reincarnated and can do no wrong !!

Hypocrisy at it's finest 🤦🤦🤦

The double standards and Misogyny this fanbase has towards the female characters irritates me so much. 😠😠😠

( Side note : This is not a post defending Chloe's actions or hating on Felix, this is just a fun joke shedding some light on how Hypocritical and Misogynistic the Twitter side of the fandom is. Not all of MLB twitter but most of them are like this. If you want to know more about my thoughst on this , check out my post " Felix and Chloe , two sides of the same coin " . This is just My opinions, feel free to disagree , please stay respectful.)

[elfwreck]

It’s so awful how bullying has come back in fashion especially on the internet and with young people like I can remember when I was being bullied growing up just for being in fandom or caring too much or being weird or whatever and for one second we thought that was over and now I have friends even just a year younger than me bullying entire groups of people like furries or older people in fandom or whatever and when I ask for an explanation they just go “oh it’s because some members of (1/2)

(2/2) the community are cringe or weird or creepy or whatever” and it’s like when did this become an excuse when did we regress so far in our society that it becomes okay to treat people like this and I went off social media maybe six months ago or something and I return every now and again just to check up on friends and I have no idea how I was ever on there people are just so mean anyways sorry this is just me rambling but yeah

Bullying has, unfortunately, always been in fashion. Harassing people who are different has always been a mainstream activity. What's come back is that it's easy - and the internet has become a "mainstream" place, instead of being mostly managed by outcasts who had sympathy for other outcasts.

Social platform providers have given up on preventing it - and often decided to penalize the targets if they complain.

It's an easy rut to get stuck in - there's something very validating about saying "X is fucked-up" and hearing a chorus of replies saying "yeah, it sure is!" And it can be hard to notice that the entire community is built around that dynamic, that they have no foundation of support or mutual appreciation or creative exchange; it's all just "sharing" memes about who they hate most right now.

It's a high-energy ride... until you find yourself sympathizing with one of the targets. Or until you realize you might be one of the targets, if anyone knew you well.

In communities that try to get away from that, they can wind up leaning too far into the "everyone be nice" goal and forbid criticism of anything, even the things that really are problems.

Sometimes they have a short list: It's okay to criticize people with some list of specific traits. But that winds up in the same place, eventually... because there is no list of traits or specific actions that make people Irredeemably Evil Forever, and eventually, someone notices that the "friendly" community is not morally superior to the hatefest; it just has fewer acceptable targets.

…I get along better with the "toxic hatefest" communities than the "we will be NICE TO EVERYONE except for THOSE SPECIFIC PEOPLE" communities. I've seen toxic hatefest communities get bored and start having serious discussions; I've never seen one of the others grow more benevolent over time.

"Each of us from the moment of his or her birth exists in an environment in which it is easy to do evil and hard to do good.... If I know somebody very well, in ten minutes, if I set my mind to it, I could perhaps say to them things so cruel, so destructive, that they would never forget them for the rest of their life. But could I in ten minutes say things so beautiful, so creative, that they would never forget them?"

[Bishop Kallistos Ware, in "Image and Likeness: An Interview with Bishop Kallistos Ware," ParaboaT, Spring 1985, pp. 62-71; on pp. 66-67.]

A community can't hate its way into being supportive and compassionate to the people who deserve care.

[sophieinwonderland]

I understand why disordered and traumagenic systems hate non-disordered systems like mine, and I understand that trauma and (C)PTSD can be part of the reason. I'm perfectly aware that the communities need to stop fighting and that we should definitely encourage more understanding and empathy with each other and I want to do that.

But at the same time... I'm also mad. It boils my blood that the people who should we fighting alongside me label my experiences as fake in front of singlets so they feel (even more encouraged) to shit on non-disordered systems.

It's frustrating when people who you don't even know get mad at you and act like your existence is a personal act to them and even literally say it, when you don't even know them and you being a system has nothing to do with them.

And I feel like an hypocrite being like "We need to be more understanding with each other" and at the same time be like "I can't stand sysmeds, I hate them", but I want to help this community how I can. I dunno if you've felt like that before.

I want to be understanding but at the same time I don't think I will be able to the most pacific and understanding person, that I think people expect me to be, when other systems tell us to our face that we are not systems, that we just have repressed trauma (are they going to pay the therapy for us?), that we have [insert disorder] when they should know better than diagnosing strangers in the internet, when they say we're are harming them just for saying "we exist".

You're not a hypocrite for hating people who hate you for existing.

And I think that understanding why someone feels the way they do doesn't excuse or justify it. People aren't born bad. It's learned. But people are always still responsible for their own behavior.

Look at the response to the McLean video. Many of the systems justifying the fakeclaiming are coming from a genuine place of not understanding the systems in the video clips.

Systems who hid their plurality for all their lives out of fear of being seen as crazy, systems who more often than not felt crazy themselves for what they are, are not going to relate to these DID influencers who proudly display their systems for the world to see without having to feel ashamed for being different.

I can understand how this lack of shame may be so completely inconceivable to them. And with being fakeclaimed themselves, I can understand how they could see this the fakeclaiming as acceptable behavior, or just not recognize what the video did as being fakeclaiming because it's so normalized.

But understanding why they feel the way they do... it doesn't change anything... that video and its supporters still emboldened the r/fdc type. The systems in it were still harassed because of the video. And pluralphobes have more justification for their irrational hatred.

And by siding with the presentation, it gives the okay for this behavior.

While understanding the perspectives of others is important, I don't think ever view needs to be validates or respected.

And while I can understand why some traumagenic and disordered systems may be anti-endo, let's not forget that many aren't.

Every single one has a choice. And some choose hate.

Most may not be evil. They may not be irredeemable. But they've chosen a position that we can't afford to accept or tolerate in our community.

[fumifooms]

An unpolished review of Stranger Things 4′s Henry Creel and ableism. Eleven vs Henry, the good neurodivergent vs the dangerous mentally ill. Character analysis

Tldr, Stranger Things made some wild (insensitive) choices.

Umm so I watched the ep 7 of Stranger Things S4 and I have... Mixed feelings. I started writing this before volume 2 was out, and I’m finishing it in the end of july. I’ve had plenty of time to let it marinate, think and debate with others on it. It took this long for me to sort out my feelings and build up the courage to make any post in support of Henry Creel’s experiences and humanity, but I’ve gotten there, kind of.

I guess I should mention this too, kinda important, but I’m autistic. I was diagnosed at 18 and got all sorts of messed up and some internalized ableism I’ve worked through. The way I see it, currently in Stranger Things, the characters of Henry Creel, Eleven, Robin and even Will all have significant back-up to support them being autistic. Here what matters most is Henry’s, because his is the most overt and less masked, and Eleven’s due to the topic, but Henry having autism is the only actual diagnosis one I’m determined on defending. Regardless, canonically stated or not, much like being diagnosed or undiagnosed, it isn’t because you don’t have a label for it that you aren’t, and that the symptoms and experiences you have because of your autism don’t exist and don’t manifest. A character can have a mental illness or disorder without authorial intent, because things don’t exist in a vacuum. 

A few important things to keep in mind before we start, well summarized by the following posts. I’ll still be reiterating these things as I go though bc people have no chill:

https://nemevex.tumblr.com/post/676815383203840001/mental-illnesses-can-increase-the-chance-of-being

https://psychonarc.tumblr.com/post/664768075380441089/its-interesting-to-watch-neurotypicals-grapple

https://theegosystem.tumblr.com/post/657136958513037312/id-title-of-picture-says-how-can-someone-have-so

Tldr:  https://mibasai.tumblr.com/post/669402579694993408/reminder-that-if-your-horror-is-reliant-on  note: regardless of how many decent neurodivergent portrayals you have in your show, if one of them is an actively ableist portrayal, your show is still ableist. Being an ally to neurodivergent people isn’t about picking and choosing who is too scary to empathize with and not just “these few misfit kids were good and deserving of acceptance despite being a bit quirky all along”

shortest tldr: https://aeon-of-neon.tumblr.com/post/685452896681230336/also-can-i-just-say-the-autistic-child-is-evil

My tldr: The way Henry Creel was handled is literally autism & aspd fearmongering lol.

It may sound like I’m excusing Henry in this post, and I want to be clear that my goal isn’t to defend Henry’s actions, my goal is to defend Henry’s humanity and complexity as a full human with emotions and thoughts for whose whole identity isn’t the innate want to cause harm and be evil, since everyone is so set on strictly seeing him as such. Perhaps, you could use your empathy, which you condemn him for not having, to not deem him an irredeemable heartless monster whose abuse is justified.

Warnings for spoilers and discussion of heavy themes such as ableism, abuse, animal torture and the targeted ableist killing by the nazi Hans Asperger.

Disclaimer: This is not a clean essay. I was and am hurt and very defensive of these experiences and feelings which I identify and sympathize with, and I am confused. There are ways you can interpret the canon text in good faith, where everything is aligned in a way that lessens the ableist damage, but you have to dig and theorize so much that it doesn’t feel genuine to say that in this one case the narrative wouldn’t be ableist. I find it very hard to contain all my thoughts in one essay, especially since there’s so much analysis to set up before you can even attempt to humanize Henry’s mentality and choices, so I’ve chosen to reduce this as a casual review rather than an essay, and explain Henry Creel’s various ideologies and actions in other, later posts. I might come back to polish this one at some point later though, yet once again. I have written and rewritten the same points as below in so many ways scattered on multiple private platforms. To “polish” this for posting, I’ve spent literally 8 hours nonstop today. God. Anyways, let’s move onto the thing. 

Part of this essay was written before volume two and it’ll be apparent in the language and chronological order most times, but I did go back and organize ideas better and add in a few paragraphs so it might jump back and forth a bit.

The whole twist of Creel being One was sooo well executed and interesting and it had me hooked, I LOVED all of the build up to the reveal. I love mysteries that come together like puzzle pieces, and the way a lot of plot points and parts of the intrigue just tied together seamlessly felt so “wow” and satisfying. But then... They made him be evil because of neurodivergence...? 

Like, it’s not about giving your villain a complex backstory and grey morals, it’s about the framing. And yes, the framing absolutely was ableist.

The framing

Because, the show is explicitely saying that Creel is evil because he was inherently different since birth. The show suddenly stops highlighting the abuse and stygmatization he has suffered (such as “all the teachers and doctors said I was broken”, the corporal punishment for speaking to El which we were made to sympathize with before the reveal),and starts treating him like he’s some exotic beast, not like us TM, a monster.

And all this while having him say such neurodivergent things to say... It was actually painful for me to hear him say everything, especially the whole spiders thing, because it was so relatable and accurate, and for it to be framed with ominous music in tandem with the narrative and ambiance that we should be repulsed with everything that comes out of his mouth & everything he stands for. It honestly felt like the show was calling me crazy and evil because I was relating as he was talking.

But hey, I guess if they were going for historically accurate story & character tropes then ableism is def a pick. Wow, you’re so creative, the antisocial kid tortures animals and that lack of empathy means he’s a monster! It’s overdone, guys. It’s Split level of ableist horror sensationalization. It’s not that deep. Intention matters, we’re always saying how intention matters, why is Henry defiguring animals the proof of his demonic nature when it was done out of a lack of self-awareness to difference right from wrong, which kids are famous for not having, much like when you burn ants through a magnifier glass? It’s not that big of a jump. People hunt recreatively. People often hunt unethically. Are recreative hunters demonized by society at large? It was done humanely without any ill intention mind you, but was I demonic as a child when I held the corpse of hares my family got in hunting traps and not thinking anything of its death? Henry wanted to practice his skills, and that’s what he did, on living moving targets. It wasn’t done for a pleasure of animal pain, it was done in an objective efficient detached mindset. That doesn’t make it not disturbing or alright, it just means that doesn’t make him a subhuman or something. That kinda was the line when I debated about Henry being deserving of a modicum of sympathy with my mother for her, and it’s wild to see how quickly people are to refuse sympathy to another human because they sympathize with animals more and want to overtly attribute morality to its death. “Yeah Henry was abused in the labs and that sucks I guess, but he did torture those animals” to practice his skills, yeah! Even with Eleven we were shown that killing, and even just pushing someone back, with psychic powers isn’t that simple, straightforward and without other effects, and if Henry could kill quickly without pain and other disfigurations, then better practice would maybe be to disfigure intentionally instead of going straight for death. It seems terrible talking about this, and that’s because it is, but once again I’m explaining thought processes and how they’re not super wild demonic ones that people can’t understand. I had to bust out the “I can tolerate abusive and traumatic human bigotry, but I draw the line at animal abuse” quote and then my mom conceded lol. Y’all need to demistify these sensationalized things and put them down from the pedestral of innate morality you’ve put it on, the show is manipulating you and kids don’t experiment with killing animals because they’re some widow spider demons coming to kill everyone. Empathy doesn’t equal compassion. Kids are kids.

It’s the way Stranger Things wanted Eleven to push him away with disgust and horror with 0 nuance, even if they were the closest thing each other had to friends in such a cold, abusive place for so long. It’s the way all the abuse he endured was no longer treated as such, the way the show now showed that abuse as deserved. It’s the way the pieces of the puzzle all came together for the grand evil villain finale and the explanation for his motivations wasn’t “I am angry at the world/I want justice/they’ve kept us prisoners and mistreated us” but was “I’ve always been different”, and without saying it so obviously wanting the audience to continue that statement with “which makes me want to hurt and kill people”.

It’s the way the show suddenly did an 180 from before and after telling his backstory and wanting him to become entirely unsympathetic. God I hope I’m wrong and the second part of the season spins that on its head. It’s not the fact that Henry is ND [NeuroDivergent], I think with his story that’s interesting and compelling, but it’s the way the show wants us to shake in horror at the Big Bad ND. Henry is a traumatized abuse survivor, he needs support and guidance, not to be killed on sight, like the vibes are supporting in ep 7. Henry massacred everyone in the labs after he’s been forcefully kept under its control for years and mistreated there by everyone, after a lifetime of trauma and the strong self-preservation survival instincts it caused, and the person he risked himself so much to help, who has gone through so much so similarly to him, that he feels a connection with, just immediately turns on him murderously after seeing what he’s done, no attempt to talk, no confusion, no heartbroken words, just “oh yeah I guess you know who I really am now, I’mma have to kill you too ig” and “I can’t believe you were so evil all along :(( I hate you & I have to kill you now”. Why so black and white? Like I almost feel gaslighted, I can’t be the only one to think that a step was missed here, how did we go from extremely abusive living conditions to fully dehumanizing the marginalized victim with 0 recognition that at least part of his resentment and agressive lashing back is justified?? It would have been so much more compelling and heartbreaking of a scene like it seemed they wanted it to be if they had Henry attempt to comfort/explain it to Eleven more on her level, like how he’s doing it for them or how they hurt them and all. He did, in a way, but even that felt through the lenses that Henry is only capable of manipulation. I still believe by his massacre Henry thought he was doing the right thing/what he needed to do. They wanted to get out and leave the life behind, Henry wanted to make sure it’d never come back for them, or hell, never continue and bring more people into the misery, with maybe that “purging evil from the world” stance yeah since it seems like the show is going for a Thanos situation. The point isn’t that that motivation makes it ok, the point is that Henry isn’t depicted as some one dimensional monster born and raised villain. The way he cares for Eleven’s wellbeing is so obvious, how did it end like that? Surely if he felt like himself and Eleven were really so similar, he would have tried reasoning with her when he saw she wasn’t on board with what he had done?

The problem isn’t that Eleven, another traumatized abused child, reacted intensely and violently to the very personal and upsetting events, it’s that the show, the narrative, the atmosphere and everything, takes her side on her reaction of killing him without any second guessing was just and right without nuance. The show giving any hint at all that Henry might have been deserving of sympathy or a chance was in the last episode, executed very dismissively.

The good neurodivergent vs the bad neurodivergent, and the lack of nuance

God, the parallels between One and Eleven through the season now are nauseating, because it’s the trope of the “good misfit everyone should actually love” vs the “misfit that everyone is right to reject bc they deserve it and are inherently bad”. What???? What?????? How does that not destroy every meaningful lesson and theme you’ve ever attempted to build? It’s the model minority schema, guys. 

Do you know why Asperger’s is a very outdated term for “high-functioning” autism? Because it doesn’t exist, and was rooted in ableism. Asperger’s is a subjective assessment of an autistic person to evaluate if they’re smart despite being autistic and if they can function to the treshold they wish for, despite being autistic. Asperger’s was the difference between the “exceptional autistic genius that’s surhuman” trope and being labelled “mentally handiccaped”. You know what’s the difference between Asperger’s and autism? Masking. Masking, the act of suppressing your neurodivergence and mimicking neurotypical behavior which is detrimental to your mental health and exhausting to the point of often causing chronic fatigue. Masking, which is a defense mechanism and oftentime, a trauma response. The only way for them not to be rejected by society growing up, even through a lifetime of feeling like you don’t belong and not knowing what’s wrong with you, why you’re broken and why no one can fix you. Autism is a spectrum, it’s in the diagnosis’ name, and what that means is that everyone has different levels of symptoms, different limits and different tresholds. There is no “high-functioning” and “low-functioning”, it’s “how visible are your quirks, how easy is it for you to hide your problems in this society which was not made for people like you, how long and consistently can you keep it up, how much are you willing to damage yourself to fit in?”

Hans Asperger’s studies, in the era of world war 2, which resulted in the diagnosis and its different classification from autism, was literally, without going into gritty details, him gauging which autistic people seemed “smart” enough, functioning enough to be useful to the rest of society, which were exceptional enough to be worth studying and learning from, and differenciating those autistic people from the autistic people who should be sent to die.

I’ll be quoting this article for the next bit: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-hans-aspergers-nazi-collusion/

Sheffer reveals how the Nazi aim of engineering a society they deemed ‘pure’, by killing people they saw as unworthy of life, led directly to the Holocaust.

With insight and careful historical research, Sheffer uncovers how, under Hitler’s regime, psychiatry—previously based on compassion and empathy—became part of an effort to classify the population of Germany, Austria and beyond as ‘genetically’ fit or unfit. In the context of the ‘euthanasia’ killing programmes, psychiatrists and other physicians had to determine who would live and who would be murdered. It is in this context that diagnostic labels such as ‘autistic psychopathy’ (coined by Asperger) were created.

Sheffer lays out the evidence, from sources such as medical records and referral letters, showing that Asperger was complicit in this Nazi killing machine. He protected children he deemed intelligent. But he also referred several children to Vienna’s Am Spiegelgrund clinic, which he undoubtedly knew was a centre of ‘child euthanasia’, part of what was later called Aktion T4.

This was where the children whom Nazi practitioners labelled ‘genetically inferior’ were murdered, because they were seen as incapable of social conformity, or had physical or psychological conditions judged undesirable. Some were starved, others given lethal injections. Their deaths were recorded as due to factors such as pneumonia.

Sheffer argues that Asperger supported the Nazi goal of eliminating children who could not fit in with the Volk: the fascist ideal of a homogeneous Aryan people.

This is incredibly serious for an Henry Creel tumblr essay, I am aware, and I am crying copy pasting this, and that is why this is important. Important for people to think about when they deem Henry Creel as a born monster. Why this is important to me. Do keep on telling me how Henry Creel was only ever good to imprison in a lab and experiment on, go on.

Because yes, Henry has explicitely neurodivergent experiences and displays over neurodivergent mannerism. Him not fitting in, having doctors trying to fix him as a person, and the whole feeling different (literally said by Henry as "I’ve always been different"). The whole relating to stygmatized animals is literally a very, very common experience in neurodivergent people with that sort of disorder. Even if it wasn’t intentional, it is so obvious that it cannot be ignored, and if the authors decided to ignore it anyways then that’s still ableism, you simply don’t want to admit your horror is rooted in ableism. But I do think it was intentional, because like I said they went out of their way this season to make Robin autistic. But especially because they did so many parallels with Henry and Eleven; they kept talking a about how "we’re the same you and me, we’re different" only being confirmed/reinforced by Henry being neurodivergent and saying neurodivergent experiences 24/7 and aaaaall the times people said like, "Oh Eleven is different. She doesn’t fit in" like so many times through the season and all the stuff in the labs and ugh. And yeah, the Eleven vs Henry parallels capitalize on ableist horror, the horror of the "good neurodivergent vs scary dangerous neurodivergent" trope, where one argues that one is fine and good while the other deserves no human rights. Because someone you don’t understand nor control having the power to snap under your abuse, just like any neurotypical, is a scary concept to many. It’s the unpredictable animal. You don’t trust that there is good in what you don’t know nor understand. And that goes both ways, you see no good in Henry, and Henry sees no good in humanity in kind, and with his experiences, it’s in part literally justified.

The thing with the Eleven vs Henry parallels though is that Henry was engineered to be “What if the villain was just like Eleven, but chose evil?”. That’s why in ep 8 the guys are like “Vecna is just like Eleven! How do we fight that?” That’s why the season kept having characters say how alike they are, having Henry say it, have other characters say how Eleven doesn’t fit in, all of it! They wanted dark!Eleven for the aesthetics, but didn’t bother making deeper themes, didn’t bother making it a true parallel because they wanted to dehumanize Henry as the epitome of categoric evil. It doesn’t work or register to the audience much, because they failed to treat him as they would have Eleven.  Literally, they did the "Eleven thought she did it but actually it was Henry" while continually pointing out how "similar" the two are. Henry is literally a narrative of dark!Eleven, except they don’t offer him the sympathy that they would have offered her had their roles truly been reversed. Oh hurray!! Eleven didn’t actually kill all these people, she’s too good for that! She could never, in fact she’d rather kill the meanie who did it in righteous anger! No need for an identity crisis! No need to feel such guilt! Yes, the good girl could never deal with such a morally ambiguous revelation of something terrible she has done, there is no hidden evil sides to El like you might have thought with her assaulting her bully, she’s clean! A murderer is born, not made! <3 Because there are ways to respond to trauma that make you innately evil, of course.

We had fricking Billy hargrove. Billy Hargrove. Billy "tries to run over kids and torments everyone personally" Hargrove. They had Billy Hargrove get more depth, sympathy and respect than Henry "I’m Eleven but if she had snapped" Creel. I’m sorry but if Billy gets to almost run over kids to make a point and gets largely forgiven by the fandom then why can’t Henry who’s been intensely abused for a decade in the place he’s breaking free from and lashing out, like, the line to end all lines. You want to tell me emotionally stunted abused boy violently lashing out in a breakdown at his agressive cellmates and captors of 10 years is marginally worse than Eleven wanting to use her powers on Angela and impulsively hitting her head with an object for verbal bullying of like, some months? Yeah Eleven kinda regretted it, kinda, and the injury wasn’t super serious, but the initial intent was there, the impulse was there, if you lose control and give into the impulse, are you  forgiven because the action failed to be as grave as you wished, or hadn’t thought through the possibility of serious/fatal damage? No, that makes you a Billy Hargrove who was willing to bet on kids’ lives that his sister would give into him before his car ran them over. Henry is dark!Eleven, indeed. Tell me, which of the two is the high-functioning autistic? We can talk all day about how they’re different, who is irredeemable and if that matters, but can’t we all just recognize the nuance? The shades of grey? It doesn’t have to be either "you’re an evil monster who can never change" or "misunderstood cinnamon roll who deserves all the good faith in the world", it can just be "you’re an ugly, hurting human being, and you suck, but I see you, and I recognize your pain and humanity. Your pain explains your actions, but doesn’t excuse them." A show shouldn’t bend the line of who has good in them and who doesn’t because one is your problematic fave while the other is supposed to be your big villain so you make him neurodivergent and different, forgetting that he, too, experienced the tragedy of his tragic backstory.

Framing is important. Stories create bias and hold bias, writing is biased and we as the audience are biased.

Let me ask you, when we kept getting told that Eleven killed a whole room of kid cellmates, what were your theories? No matter how much or little you thought about it, your instinct probably told you that in a moment of overwhelming emotions El had a violent burst of powers that she couldn’t/wouldn’t control. Did you think her lesser for it? Were you going to turn your back to her? What makes me so mad is the unwillingness of anyone to give similar good faith to Henry. This guy developed a “it’s me alone against the world that shunned me” mentality from a young age due to being ostracized by everyone in his life including his family, then handled traumatic truths about his family’s past misdeeds through superpowers and gained delusions of grandeur ideologies as a mechanism to give meaning to his life and otherizarion, was hospitalized against his will into the care of a doctor who groomed him for his purposes and unethically tested on him & then kept him a prisoner for roughly a decade (my guess). Is it really so hard to believe that his reaction to finally becoming free, getting back the power and agency they stole from him, and having to flee the place while workers of the establishment that abused him try to chain you back, you’d overly react? You wouldn’t have an emotional breakdown, an episode, a violent and vengeful burst? Who’s to say if your survival mode didn’t make you go on autopilot? That is an abused, mentally ill psychologically vulnerable young man who has never been treated with understanding or love nor therapy. He has spent more years in the lab than Eleven, and we all know how much it messed her up. In this same season 4 we saw how Eleven’s reaction to emotional distress is violence, when she tried to use her powers against her bully, and later with the rollerskate assault. We literally saw how the kids in the lab were pitched against each other and would torment each other, and use excessive force in experiment matches. They were literally raised to respond to conflict by being the stronger one in a fight. They want to survive and thrive, have learned survival of the fittest, and so prioritize themselves, it’s simple. ASPD is born from trauma. ASPD forms as a defense & coping mechanism. You would have forgiven Eleven for doing the same thing. Why is Henry Creel irredeemable even in the best world? Framing, is when.

Conclusions

You can’t just... Divorce things from their irl parallels or effects. You can’t have Henry Creel having explicitely neurodivergent experiences and encourage inherently fearing him for it. You absolutely CANNOT have the whole “these animals are misunderstood and perceived as scary by most, just like me” and DOUBLE DOWN on that by making that animal a scary symbolic thing for the main villain that is supposed to make your skin crawl and personify evil and has caused every horror that has happened in the show. It’s... It’s just so cruel. I don’t get it? I don’t understand. How can you have a speech on something just wanting to live its life unbothered and being stigmatized by everyone for no reason and going “yeah that’s 100% justified and you shouldn’t sympathize with them at all actually. If you do sympathize then that means there’s also something wrong with you”

And it’s such??? A wild take. It feels like the text is at war with itself, with what it sets up and states and what it does the next second. I can’t process that anything else but a sympathizing scene will happen in the climax with all the subtext of trauma and the contradictions that exists with the season as it currently is, but also I can’t see how they would handle a redemption or anything of the like, all while the episode/show is really going the “oh look at the scary mentally ill person!!” route so??? Wtf is going on. It’s such a wild 180, the before reveal and post-reveal season 4 characterisations, plotlines and themes feel so disjointed. What is up with the writing They literally went "I am so rejected by my peers that I latch onto this misunderstood, feared spider because I relate to its ostracization and struggle." And then the show goes "Yeah, you should fear him and those spiders. The spiders will come at you in horrific hallucinations, and Henry was born a murderous murder whose only way to cure is to be killed" that’s just so cruel of a narrative wow ok bruh

No, you can’t have the “omg this character is not normal, so scary” trap for your neurotypical audience and then at the last ep go “actually we were woke all along :)”. You didn’t frame this as some tragic character, you framed it as a monster who finally got unleashed, someone who tricked El into helping him commit atrocities despite it not being his intentions, attitude nor goal. It’s scary how quickly people are to believe the “Henry was manipulating Eleven all along” despite him never lying, pushing Eleven to do things, or even attempting to control her. Even at his most unstable and unfavorable to Eleven, during their confrontation, Eleven was the first to strike, and Henry didn’t say anything about forcing her to join him, just tried to convince her he is the righteous one and she should help him in his mission, tbh it kinda seems as if it hadn’t occured to him she might want to not join him at all. I’m not saying the threat at that point wasn’t there, I’m saying that to say everything Henry’s done was in the goal to manipulate and groom her with ill intentions is delusional, but that’s not a random conclusion, nor your fault. The show wants you to think that, with how his character’s demeanor shift, because he has stopped masking his more off-putting posture and tone, how the reveal of him being the big bad since season 1 comes into place at the same time, wow, he’s a mastermind! No, he’s an overpowered, lost, abused young guy who just digged himself deeper in his self-destructive coping mechanism. All the Vecna stuff comes in much, much later, and all he did before that was trying to show Eleven that she’s being abused and breaking her free of that abuse, then accepting her help when she offers to free him despite his reluctance. Was Henry wrong to tell her that Papa lies, to give her the chance to flee? Should he not have done that? And you might go “wait wait wait, you mean that facial expression and demeanor in the labs, besides a breakdown or mental illness episode, could also just be how Henry behaves when he’s not trying to appear neurotypical, when he’s not masking?”  Yes.  “Wow, it truly is so creepy, you can’t tell me anyone that isn’t a murderous freak would have body language like that! No wonder people wanted doctors to fix him and to forcibly internalize him into abusive psych wards, and keep him restrained!”  Wow, you have so many ableist conceptions to work through and get rid off, no wonder Henry wanted you dead <3

People would have been pissed if Henry was treated just as the abused sad boy who did a bad thing for a good reason, but it’s still necessary to acknowledge that abuse and how it further shaped the abuser they have become, and I’m pissed that he’s treated just as some emotionless monster who is incapable of good or nuance ever. It’s not about changing the story, it’s about giving the right amount of accountability while not making the character one note. Stranger Things having a one note evil monster human villain would have been fine, IF they didn’t make the character & their backstory so explicitely neurodivergent coded. How even do you screw up this bad. This was intentionally done, writing & framing doesn’t just happen. Why? The choice was either to capitalize on ableist demonization horror, or have it be subversed later on, but no matter what, it’s still a wildly ableist choice. You wrote Henry Creel as a complex human, why aren’t you treating him as one?

It’s very similar to Azula from atla, really. Child with traumatic childhood and misbehavior grows up somewhat and gets pictured as a mentally disturbed beacon of evil with no other motivation than inflicting pain ever. The show clearly shows aspects that would have you sympathize or understand to a degree, but has a strange obsession with playing ominous music every time they are on screen and manipulates the viewer to interpret every single of their actions as having ill intent. Azula was an abused child soldier who still tried to help her estranged brother despite getting nothing from it. Henry wanted to help El escape from the lab where she obviously should leave asap and asked nothing of her, the plan only changed because she, unprompted, took the initiative to help him in turn despite getting no encouragement before or after from him about it. The show & fandom in both cases are obsessed about all of their actions being manipulative, unwilling to consider that maybe yes, Azula didn’t want to have her brother killed and yes, maybe Henry just wanted to have the abused kid & kindred spirit he felt a connection with be free from the hell they lived in. If you don’t believe me about Azula, there are plenty of objective Azula scene & character analysis on Tumblr. This post is also interesting for the conversation at hand. I honestly could link so many things that support my other general claims and explain why things are wrong but man this could get so huge. This is such a prominent issue in pop culture and everyone is so ready to jump to the defense of ableist depictions of villains, ironically.

Is this why they made Robin autistic all of a sudden, because they knew their main villain storyline was ableist af... 🤭🤭 Anyways yeah Henry joins my pile of ND antagonists that were done dirty by canon

Henry Creel could have been written so well. The crumbs are all there, I could do a psychology analysis of him with his childhood and thought processes and have him still be exactly as he is on screen while being a complex, three dimensional villain. But nooo we get autism & ASPD fearmongering, alright.

There would have been soooo many ways to dehumanize Henry, to make him some heartless creepy monster, without making his whole aesthetic being neurodivergent = evil. They literally just had to not make his experiences be a copy of a neurodivergent kid growing up in an era very hostile and unaccommodating for people different like him. Like we see Eddie being treated, and even then Henry prob had it worse at least in some ways. They literally just had to not put his character through abuse and ostracization and then there would have been no reason to sympathize at all. A child who has enough issues to murder his family through fire is a child that has issues and needs help, not to be further demonized and cement their "me versus the world" mentality. They just had to not do these things, not even to do something else, just to take those out. Henry would have still been demonized by mannerism that is often shared with autistic people, amongst others, and would have still done all the horrible shit he did, but at least then the parallels would be much less worse, it wouldn’t be so overtly ableist and neurodivergent people wouldn’t feel hurt watching it.

Before this ends I do want to say that no, obviously, I don’t support Henry killing anyone, nor any of his bad actions. I don’t want to excuse it, and him getting some level of punishment is deserved, though rehabilitation is really more my jam, and if the punishment only reinforces the thought processes he gained as a defense mechanism... You know what I’m saying? It’s frankly immature to look at such an obviously morally complex story and characters and just, treat it the way they have? It’s disgusting. I guess I really shouldn’t be surprised about this from the show who depicts anything russian... That way though, lol... This was pretty emotional and unpolished, aka repetitive and ungraceful, but yeah I just hope I won’t cause a fandom war or get shit on or smth. It’s all just :(  The stench of ableism is just undeniable and I’m both mad and disappointed, I just hope the latter end of the season will amend it somewhat. Was the episode low on time or something? Did the whole “actually yeah your heart is supposed to wrench in sympathy for him and the show frames it as super tragic and sad for him to have been pushed to become this way” and by “this way” I mean irredeemable in their eyes just go over my head or something? Must be my autism <3  I’mma still watch the show, and I cast no moral judgements for other fans, especially since a lof of this is the framing of the show manipulating the audience, but if you love the whole Henry backstory and how it was executed, at least understand/aknowledge how deeply problematic it was handled.

Part two (yep, those were all part one thoughts)

UPDATE - season 4 part 2

Wow it really got better! Sike it only got worse. I had hope during many moments in ep 8 to be honest. I really thought Eleven was processing the trauma of Henry turning out to be evil and having mixed feelings and all, like with the scene where she watched Max & co talk about him and how to take him down. The fact that “Henry’s just like Eleven, a supernatural gifted kid & kinda doesn’t fit in” and “So, how do we take Henry, the monster, down?” were said so closely next to each other and so casually, coupled with Eleven’s upset expression, really had me thinking that Eleven was upset to see Henry, an ex-friend and kindred spirit, as this monster they had to put down, and to be likened to him so much. I even expected that maybe the next thing one would say would be “Well, what are Eleven’s weaknesses we could exploit to kill Henry?” which would have been horrifying for her for sure, to have that parallel so easily not only be drawn but exploited for the murder of one.

The neurodivergent lines and parallels about Eleven are also still ongoing, so that solidifies that Henry is intentionally neurodivergent coded as well.

Papa’s death

I have my beef with Papa’s death and how it was handled. 

Particularly, it’s really sad how all the other kids in the labs don’t matter beyond adding trauma flavor to Eleven. When she’s having cryptic flashback at first, she’s horrified at what she thinks she did, but not that much because of who they were. Afterward, she’s sad about it, but again, more in an horrified empathetic way rather than truly mourning them, it’s about her trauma, not them. Father is... Well it’s kind of left up to the audience to interpret how he reacted to Eleven, if like Henry said Papa only got more scared of her because of it, if he got intrigued by this new power and urges he thought she got, if he understood immediately that she freed 001 like implied, or if he was disapproving of Eleven for making him lose all his other experiments, or even sad at losing all these children. In the end, even if it’s very obvious to the audience that those kids were just traumatized children trying to get by in an abusive environment, how the show treats them is kinda dehumanizing, as mere plot devices. Eleven cried at the show of evil, because of guilt and maybe suppressed mourning, and Father pretty much dismisses their loss after the event. So that’s how their deaths were handled and shown, but how is the aftermath of it treated? Well it just isn’t mentioned. Not by any character, not beyond a “how could you let Henry be in proximity with these kids he ended up murdering!” which is about villifying Henry and questioning Father’s, an unquestionable figure of authority and all-knowing well-meaning caretaker put on a pedestral choices up to that point, and not really about the kids. Or a “all these deaths!” which isn’t about the kids, but about the virtue signalling. It’s not about them, it’s about Henry and the conflict between Eleven and Father, the arcs that the two are going through, of questioning that authority figure who’s always had a grip on her life, and of falling down his pedestral with others as well as with his own convictions. It’s not about them. 

The episode is about Eleven, and Father and Henry. The arc shown about Father getting what he deserves isn’t about all the horrible things Father has done, getting confronted with them, attempting to atone or repress their memories or anything, it’s about Eleven rejecting him and everything he has taught.  Let me repeat this. The episode where Father gets called out is about his treatment of Eleven, and Eleven first and foremost, if not ONLY. The level to which they acknowledge Father abused everyone else just as much as Eleven is very weak.

Please, let’s acknowledge how messed up, truly nauseatingly fucking MESSED UP it is that Papa gets told (paraphrasing bc I watched the ep in french) “You kept Henry imprisoned at the labs for so long... With all of us!” I was so positively stunned when Eleven said the first part with such resentful rage. Yes, Henry was abused, too! Papa kept all of you prisoners! He is why Henry got reaffirmed in his belief that humanity are a selfish and spineless disease to wipe out! He traumatized you all, traumatized him even further! But no. The reproach isn’t that Henry shouldn’t have been treated as some subhuman scientific experiment, it’s that he allowed monster murderous Henry to share their vicinity. That of course Papa should have known, if Henry was living with them for such a prolonged time, he was bound to eventually kill them! Can Henry just never have human contact ever again then?? How is anyone surprised Henry never got better when this is how everyone treats him. You don’t want Henry to get better, you want ease of mind from his existence, and killing him erases the problem just fine so why bother? Did you know, that a lot of professional therapists and programs deny cases that are “too severe”, even if the individual seeks help and self-improvement? A lot of people turn away patients with cluster b disorders just because the disorders, their perceived symptoms and perceived unstability scares them, even if the individual is harmless. Everyone tells pedos (regardless of criminal record if any) to seek help with a sneer, for example, but no one wants to be the person to offer that help, no even those whose literal job it is, and that’s why this question is one that is asked to anyone looking to become a psychologist. “Would you be willing/strong enough to accept to work with [insert type of patient]?”. Most of people’s answers are no. You don’t want them to get better, you want them to rot in prison away from the world until they die. I take no pleasure in saying this, but it is a real issue, and one that most people refuse to acknowledge. You don’t want Henry to get better, because you don’t trust his capacity nor worthiness of getting better, and that’s an issue, and that is ableist, but the blame is shared with the show because it encourages you to think that way, and the arguments it gives in support of this stance are ableist and insidious.

It really is truly horrifyingly dehumanizing to see how they categorically refuse to see Henry as a victim of abuse and trauma in any capacity, how they deny his complexity and capacity for non-evil so much. Eleven implies that yeah, it’s okay if Henry is locked up, in fact, he should never be allowed near anyone! He should have been killed as a baby! Because death was the only solution and getting him the earlier the better! It’s sad that Eleven doesn’t have even a shred of sympathy for him, considering how indeed similar they were and how they connected, how he was her only ally for such a harsh prolonged period of her life. She doesn’t even mourn the person she thought he was, couldn’t show the same sympathy for the victim of a same abuser the same way she has to the ones who injured and bullied her instead of helping her, albeit in a misguided way. The “You’re the monster” at Papa almost feels like an admittance that Henry isn’t fully to blame for his trauma? But mind the almost, the show still said Papa’s mistake was allowing the dangerous child he’s been abusing to be with other unstable kids. Yeah I’m sure it really helped how Papa encouraged violence (pitting the kids against each other in unfriendly fights, without punishing excessive use of strenght to hurt, and even rewarding shows of excessive violence by being impressed, beyond the obvious extra play time. Truly encouraging the survival of the fittest rule where the strong deserve to torment the weak) all while fueling his cynical hatred of humanity. I’m sure Henry would have grown to become Vecna no matter what happened to him, that the same would have happened if he got a shred of a healthy support system for once, if he hadn’t put into the hands of a system that wants him either assimilated or dead.

It doesn’t hurt because we needed speeches on the nature of abuse, it hurts because Stranger things is pushing ableist, anti-rehabilitation, anti-recovery narratives. Henry was born the devil, fated to become the dangerous monster he now is, and death is the only mercy for them all. It could be such an interesting complex take on Eleven’s character as well, of refusing all of Henry’s existing complexity and genuine interactions the two ever had because of the trauma the reveal caused, on how she needs to stop thinking so black and white, that she is not a monster for choosing fight in fight or flight, but still having an arc of deconstructing how she was taught to respond to conflict and distress by violence, because it is wrong. But no, we have milktoast pure evil vs born good and empathetic humans that must hatch it out and “no actually I’m not a monster I just needed to break free from your hold, Papa. But that guy? Yeah there was never any hope y’know some people are just born like that and can’t be fixed” 

BUT on the other hand! I got really scared when Father started talking about how all he did was selfless & for Eleven, BUT Eleven didn’t validate or reassure him at all in the end even not as a dying wish, which I really really liked. Like yeah, she can be conflicted and heartbroken and sad over his death, of course, she can hold his hand or whatever, but I’m really super glad she (and the writers) didn’t cross that line of giving him unearned peace and validation by lying about how all the horrible selfish abuse he did was done caringly in some twisted way, and I’m so glad that narrative wasn’t truly pushed. He’s a delusional man who did horrible things and died desperately trying to justify them, and that is fitting.

In conclusion, I continue to be hurt. The gaslighting of the show only makes me more upset. I question the validity of my interpretation and experiences, and wonder if I have the right to be hurt. It tests my sense of self and moral convictions. But logic prevails all and here I am like, 5k later still holding strong. It’s not about defending murder man, it’s about aknowledging the facts of the literal show that Henry was in fact a victim of abuse, how that shouldn’t be brushed off as something that didn’t influence him at all and that, worse, he deserved, and also the basic human compassion principle that everyone is capable of good if given the right environment.

2nd conclusion

Y’all love the “I am the righteous hand of god” tiktoks about the kids fighting back their abusive parent with weapons so much, but when it’s the fictional literal dehumanized kid that’s different and has been told he needs to be fixed all his life showing visions to his parents of their worst actions out of some misguided sense of justice, then lashes out and fights back against his family after they try to get him forcibly hospitalized (into the system that got him abusively imprisoned and groomed for a decade, might I add. Justified fear to have, let’s just say), then goes on some murderous crusade of the ones who hurt him and his bestie after a decade of imprisonment and relentless abuse and are still trying to drag him back into chains, and suddenly you can’t understand it at all? Suddenly violence and confrontation isn’t a response to abuse, a fight or flight survival mechanism, that you can stomach? Where’s the empowering framing and catharsis now?

Like idk how to get you to understand, it’s literally maladaptive abuse responses because you maladaptively develop when you live in abusive environments and get exposed to trauma. It’s literally the “but is it justice or justified to bully the bully” age-old dilemma. What’s not clicking?? That doesn’t make it right it just means Henry isn’t a demonic shell of a human being and you’re not only demonizing this fictional character but also everyone who went through a similar struggle a similar way. It’s not a hard thesis to grasp.

Just to be clear for the umpteenth time, none of Henry’s actions are acceptable. I personally don’t see any of his interactions with Eleven as intentionally manipulative or insidious, I genuinely think he was trying to help selflessly and genuinely connecting with no underlying or evil intentions. I personally see Henry’s response to being set free in the labs of going after everyone who hurt him and could continue the horrible legacy of the labs, people who could search for him and drag him back like we see Papa do with Eleven through the seasons, in some emotional rageful trauma response to be justified. Justified, not acceptable. 

Why would Henry kill everyone, including the kids? 1) We’re shown that the staff wants to chain him back and are very fine trying to use violence to do so. First and foremost, Henry fighting back is self-defense because he wants to get out and stay free. It’s pretty much life or death for him at that point, even if they only want to chain him again, it’s not much better than life, is it. That can easily spiral into killing everyone he comes across, because even if they run away they might be getting help or weapons, and at some point there’s no time to gauge a reaction. Then that can veryyy easily devolve into... 2) he’s having some sort of breakdown. After a decade stuck in a prison, he’s finally, finally free but the fight has just begun and as he has to defend himself against everyone coping & defense mechanisms activate and he’s put on autopilot, wether it makes him numb or with some twisted glee of satisfaction, both would sadly be responses of trauma that are valid to be seen as such. 3) The staff is trying to get him back. What if, even if he runs away, the labs would try to track him down and drag him back? That’s is a very sound hypothesis, and one confirmed since we see what happens with Eleven. The only true escape is to kill anyone that could come for him. Kill absolutely everyone involved in the labs. Also, since we see that Henry wanted to get Eleven out, him erasing everything of the labs could be a way to ensure others aren’t dragged into the experiments, for the legacy of the labs to be unable to live on. Though I don’t believe that Henry had so much foresight into the future at that stressful moment to have a reasoning like “I can’t let other superpowered kids alive or they might end up fighting against me”, and it’d feel disjointed from the rest and the tone as a main motivation. 5) Revenge. Those people imprisoned him and Eleven, bullied Eleven. He will kill them all for the way they hurt him and the one person he cares about. In his eyes, either they’re unworthy of life, or it’s really just to deal punishment and gain satisfaction from it. In this category I’d also put his life mission of exterminating humans, might as well start fulfilling it right away.

Why would he kill everyone but El? The show is very explicit about it. Henry sees himself in Eleven, a talented yet quiet and recluse misfit outcast, and feels some connection with her for it. Tbh it’s kind of canonicaly explicitely the neurodivergent spidey senses lmao. Anyways, and Henry got attached to her in that way, and wanted her free out of the labs. He didn’t want harm to come to her, she’s special, the exception, and if the opportunity arises he’d love to have her beside him as he does his genocide thing. He wouldn’t hurt El unprovoked, he even tried to talk/"reason" her into seeing things his way with his speech about his life and human nature. I think he sees himself as her guardian, in a way, a big reason for why he wanted her to wait safely in the closet.

The “visions of past guilt” he inflicted on his family is obviously a terrible, non-justifiable thing to do, but as a kid we’re taught very firmly that justice should be dealt and bad actions should be adressed, and to me it isn’t so wild that upon finding out the terrible horrible shit his family has done, would respond to that trauma by making them confront it alongside him who learned about it all, judging that they haven’t atoned for it enough since he, their son, never knew about it and never saw them sorry for it. It only solidified his unflattering view of humans as callous, immoral selfish creatures, and by then yeah I think that was set in stone enough for him to be ok with murder. But I do think killing his family was... Handled in the show in a weird way that makes it hard for me to suspend my disbelief and not just see the obvious attempt to dehumanize him fully? Like it was really cold, said matter of factly like “Yes, just as I’d planned they all died then and I wasn’t blamed for it. I never cared for them and I felt nothing but satisfaction at a plan well executed. I have never thought about them since, and continued my path into ridding the world of the human leeches”, and? Ok dude, go off I guess. Personally, so as for it not to totally break my interpretation of him as someone who isn’t a one dimensional personification of bloodlust, I see it as him overtly lashing out in the moment, and at the very grave results try to distance himself emotionally from it and act as if it doesn’t matter and he’d have done it anyways. An emotional lash out, response to fear and abuse and distress and a need to protect himself, like when he was free from the chip and the lab wanted to chain him back, like when Eleven got bullied to the point of meltdown.

And if I can give good faith to Eleven for not only being sad at the deaths of her cellmates out of guilt, and that she’s maybe suppressing all the positive she once associated with Henry and didn’t just do a one-dimensional emotionally detached 180 on her stance about him, then I can give good faith to a traumatized, abused Henry who’s never had a good support system and so latched onto spiders because he was just that lonely and otherized for making himself believe that his murder of his family was entirely planned and meaningful, because not being emotionally detached about it and realizing it was a senseless spill of blood would be too painful. I can give good faith that he doesn’t just have some black hole of bloodlust inside, and that if he does that’s born of a coping mechanism, but fundamentally it’s just flawed ideologies based on the need to give his difference and ostracization from other, normal humans, a deeper meaning than just “I have suffered so much because humans are flawed, and that suffering was senseless. But that’s okay, and I need to work through that and let things go, despite that in my era there are no ressources or common compassion for people like me”. Because “we all have good. They say that I’m evil and broken, but I think they’re the ones who are flawed, evil, and should be fixed. But I understand that that course of action is flawed, and none of us are evil and should be purged from the world. There is no need to continue the cycle of abuse and treat them like they have treated me. Coexisting won’t be easy, but I have to be the bigger person and try to make the world a better place in a way that doesn’t involve what they would do to me if they could. Murder is bad and shouldn’t be done, but they do bad things to me that shouldn’t be done and that’s deemed okay, but that doesn’t make murdering them okay because doing bad things don’t make them irredeemably bad people” isn’t the kind of lesson a literal child will usually work through and come to on his own, not when he’s hurting so much and trying to give meaning to his life, hence his “I must purge the world from humanity” mission. I think this might be my best way of phrasing this yet. Do you see? Do you see how cruel and senseless it is?

I want to continue watching Stranger Things, I liked the season so much before they pulled this, but it really hurts when they make me feel the urge to type out multiple essays attempting to defend an abuse victim’s humanity to the majority who is willingfully convinced that he doesn’t deserve basic compassion. I hate how even without looking at how people on tumblr talk about him, the ambiance and text of the show invalidate him so much and make me feel the need to add a paragraph on here about how “no, I haven’t had these experiences, I can just understand Henry’s way of thinking through logical hypothetics because as an autistic who’s only autistic I have learned to put myself in others’ shoes to mask better. No I haven’t killed animals willingly and no I never have violent meltdowns” because, while true, I know it’s because I’m so scared that people will look at this post and go “Look! If she can sympathize to these experiences, she’s dangerous and crazy, too!”, because that is the atmosphere Stranger Things season 4 has built up, and because I know from experience that some people will react like this, because I will be judged and my words and experiences will be devalued for it. 

I am desperately afraid of people knowing I don’t hate Henry Creel with every fiber of my being, that I like spiders too, and Harry Potter’s demonization of snakes only inspire me to preach how great they are, that I headcanon my faves to have ASPD and NPD and while it adds to their struggle it’s not treated as something to be fixed, that empathizing with morally ambiguous characters who prioritize themselves is healing to me, and that all of these help me cope with life and how rough and meaningless it is. But you know what? I know that, I aknowledge that. But I want, I choose to, stand by these things. I am against demonizing people for neurodivergence and mental health struggles when they should be getting help and compassion, and you should too. Henry Creel’s framing is actively damaging, to both stigmatized neurodivergent and/or mentally ill people who need help instead of judgement, and to the greater public who gets taught that neurodivergent people are beasts to be seen as threats to evaluate and contain. It reinforces wider ableism, as well as internalized ableism.

Episode 9

It took... Almost a month for me to do any sort of retrospective on this episode. My biggest wish was fulfilled. The show explicitely recognized that Henry was abused at the hands of Papa, too. And... It was very underwhelming. Pretty disappointing. But I got it! I can’t complain, right? Well I will anyways bc I will not be restrained.

The whole speech of “you were abused too, and you can become better it isn’t too late” by Eleven felt very tacked on, very out of nowhere, unearned and not genuine. You’re telling me that you tried to kill him like 3 times before trying to have a single convo of any kind, and in the end Vecna needed to pin you to the wall and threaten everything you hold dear for you to extend to him the barest shred of recognition of humanity and compassion and not quite believe your words even as you’re saying them? Yeah... Sure. To be honest, it felt a lot like virtue signalling Eleven being good and the better person more than really to make the characters or the audience entertain the thought that Vecna might have some good and capacity for growth in him somewhere. Once again, a scene about Henry’s trauma is more about Eleven than it truly is about him. But? As for acknowledging that Henry Creel is a victim of abuse and has gone through though shit, that’s good enough for me. But I debated a long time on if this essay should still be posted then, and I do think it should be. A small, half-hearted half-assed concession that his humanity existed at some point does not erase the framing and all the damage it has done.

A recurring thing I hate with how they did Henry is the aftermath with Eleven. Like, Henry was kind of her only ally in the place that abused her for so long? She was friends with him? They shared secrets, and some trust bond that didn’t seem wholy one-sided from Henry? And you’re just going to throw that all away and think the audience will believe there’s no remaining feelings about it? The show seems to go down the route that the reveal traumatized her a lot, so from then on she responded to Henry with immediate violence and intense hostility. If she sees him as a one-dimensional villain who manipulated her and can do no good, then she can’t be conflicted about the nice moments she shared with him, the good she thought she saw there, and the pain of losing the closest thing she had ever had to a friend. So she suppresses thinking deeper about Henry and respond to confrontation of him or the topic of him by being very hostile towards anything him. But then the last scene?? Doesn’t really work because she hasn’t undone that at all. She doesn’t sound sincere when she says it. Her back is to a literal and figurative wall, Vecna is going to kill all her friends, and now, now after trying to kill him many times over without even attempting to talk, now you’re going to appeal to his humanity? It doesn’t feel like a change of perspective, it feels like a desperate, last ditch attempt to win the war and get out alive. Which is why it feels fake af

It’s really ironic how Stranger Things season 4 really just reinforces Vecna’s beliefs. Humans are vermins who go by the survival of the fittest rule. Everyone treated Henry like shit at every stage of his life. Papa made the kids fight each other for basic needs rewards. He could flee the facility if he wanted because he was the strongest, but he wasn’t so Eleven won. Eleven was going to crush him mercilessly, but he had her by the throat, and suddenly she’s willing to allow the thought of him having a crumb of humanity.

Oh and I forgot to mention it but they used the psycho word derogatorily on Jason which... Just pretty much confirms that they don’t care about being insensitive and explicitely ableist. Jason doesn’t even truly fit most of the criterias, get it right. Jason alongside Henry is prob going to be one of the most hated Stranger Things character ever, and the writers knew that, which is why the choice of word as Lucas delivers a beating and he dies in the unleashment of the apocalypse without a spare glance all the more telling. Like, I do really hate Jason as much as the next person, but can we appreciate that the show explicitely showed us that he was grieving intensely, and how the way society behaved around Jason and people like him had a huge part in why he turned out the way he did? Get this, Jason is portrayed to have more emotional depth than Henry Creel! The bar is so low lol...

Final thoughts on the season

Ok hot take but not really, but I was lowkey pissed at how the season just, doesn’t talk about Lucas and sports at all? The show kinda implies that he joined the basketball team and everything just for the status, to be accepted and all, but does Lucas just not care about the sport at all?? Does he not like basketball?? Is he naturally gifted to have landed that winning score or did he spend many hours desperately training to have a chance of popular kids accepting him? We don’t know!! Why don’t we know when that’s like, such an obvious loose thread! I always kinda just thought that he, y’know, wanted to do basketball on the basketball team but the way it’s all done and how Lucas says smth like "I should never have joined the team bc they suck and i have u guys" in the last ep and I was like?? So was the basketball just a secondary thing to making the team or? To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with that narrative, it’s actually really compelling. But the thing is that the show doesn’t address it at all, it kinda implies it but doesn’t state anything or does anything with it so it kinda just dies a no closure death and feels off and ruins the potential when all the right cards for it were already laid out. Actually that last criticism is a common flaw i’ve found throughout the season tbh. Putting all the crumbs necessary for cool pay-off or plot twists, then just doing nothing with it or worse, dismissing them and contradicting them. Sooo are we just going to ignore Henry was abused for like, a decade and his parents wanted a doctor to fix him and apparently they’ve done terrible shit like possibly set fire on a baby or smth??? Ok yeah ig we’re just not going to address that at all until like the last 10 minutes half-heartedly maybe, also u get no deeper answers, and was Henry an abuse victim truly? Up for debate, apparently, which it shouldn’t bc it’s pretty explicity but the show likes to gaslight ig Ronance? Eddissy? Shit, we the writers def noticed the glaring chemistry but it’s too late to make changes to the script now so let’s just keep everything the same & have it both ways and never address the obvious sparks flying. Oh and let’s not ever have the main cast talk much about Chrissy or have Eddie like, grieve or talk about her at all besides self-pity and trauma? Was the whole Jason plotline really the biggest reason for Chrissy to be important? When you examine it deeper it, kinda just feels sour and stale. And I’ve got other examples but I’ll stop here, I kinda sound way too nitpicky. But point is, this season just had so many subplots that went nowhere with no closure, narratively or thematically.

The thing is! The show keeps wanting to act as if Henry is this unreasonable guy always scheming and manipulating but! He’s just a traumatized dude with murderous convictions! Convictions can be changed! The guy latched onto spiders as a kid, he’s never formed a meaningful relationship with anyone ever, never had someone to fully support him or help him through things, and the one kid he did form a connection with ends up stabbing him in the back without a second thought? How is that supposed to make him deescalate or deradicalize? How is that supposed to change his mind on being a loner and humans being beneath him? I’m not saying it was imperative for El to accept him or whatever, it makes a lotta sense she doesn’t, but I’m saying it’s no wonder how it further cements him in his way.  Even in the aftermath of her killing him, he can’t let go of the one bond he’s made fully. Eleven becomes his one true rival. She’s still special. He still cares, in a weird twisted way.

So the show wants us to see the reveal and be all "omg he was manipulating her all along!!" Um, no? If you think back on it at all, you’ll see that not really. Henry gives Eleven advice to survive in the labs and try to thrive as they can. "Papa always lies", yeah? That’s true? He gives her genuine advice that works. In a way, he’s also pushing her onto becoming the top kid, and using anger and power to do so, but again, he was taught that way too I don’t think we can fault him for that, especially not if it works. That place is built on that, if agression is the response that’s rewarded in those abusive living conditions, can we fault them for playing by the rules instead of getting crushed under the others’ boots? In a way, the other kids who bully El also represent the "it’s me against the world" mentality Henry has, it’s not just El’s bullies, it’s also Henry’s childhood bullies and everyone else trying to keep him down. It’s the ones who don’t understand him, who fear him, the neurotypical bullies. Okok yeah so- Henry wants to get Eleven out. He truly, genuinely wants to. He can run away himself, but if he can help her get out, her who he sees himself in, why wouldn’t he? He was never going to mention his chip. Eleven turned around at the last moment, so close to freedom, and was like, "Wait, I want you to come with :(". Henry shows her his chip, resigned, and doesn’t suggest anything about it. Eleven thinks of the way to help him and volunteers and insists. Henry doesn’t hurry about it, doesn’t cheer, doesn’t do anything. She frees him, and he’s grateful for it, and then after carving his way out of the labs with corpses they’ll run away together and idk find life goals outside in the world. Where?? Where was the manipulation?? Bc he gave her true advice?? Because he let her free him the way she thought up of?? He never suggested anything about it! Esp since like, Henry wasn’t even truly allowed to talk to them in the labs or anything. As soon as the reveal happens, El is in a "kill as soon as possible without mercy" mode. As soon as the reveal happens, the only right way to deal with Henry Creel is to kill him, and someone should have killed him as a baby so he couldn’t have hurt anyone and become the monster he was bound to become :) OKAY

Henry is, like implied earlier, in many ways like Billy. Hurt people hurt people. The cycle of abuse. To become stronger than his dad, able to survive in his household and then stand up to him, he had to toughen himself up and put himself in his dad’s shoes of what his dad values to be able to fight against it. He had to become strong, so he became twisted. And it worked. He’s alive, top of the school and household when his dad isn’t there. To become stronger than the monster he became a bigger one. It’s survival. With Henry, it’s more to prevent further pain and abuse, but it’s kind of the same thing. "I’m broken? I’m prophecized to become the dark lord and you’re terrified of me? You want to take away my power and autonomy because you’re scared of what I might do when you mistreat me? Well, if this is to be my destiny, I’ll give it to you, and then nothing will be able to chain me back"

And you see this is what I mean by the season being weird! Because like, the shows reinforces that that’s the correct way to see him! That he is a ticking bomb and heartless monster and Eleven and the guys, our moral heroes, should try to kill him without a thought. Well, except for that 1 throwaway speech in the last ep ig lol. Again: "I relate to this spider bc people hate and fear us but we just wanna be" = the show portraying him as the epitome of evil with no possibility for good or growth and everyone ever in the show thinks that about him. Again. This is always what I keep going back to. The spider. He wants to be like the spiders. He want to live carefreely and mind his business in lonesome peace. This kid is so broken, but the thing is that when I say that, I don’t mean that he was born this way. People never gave him or the spiders a chance to be something else. They broke him.

A kid doesn’t tap into his parents’ deepest regrets and make them relieve them in some twisted sense of justice for no reason? Are we not going to talk about the kid having to see his adult parents’, who are supposed to represent safety and morality to a kid, worst misdeeds and guilt? The trauma that that would cause? That craddle on fire. If the parents had to grow emotionally detached to their misdeeds to keep the guilt from drowning them, can we blame Henry from growing detached to whatever attachment he might have had with his family? Can we blame his nihilism, him not reflecting about his actions and the damage they cause? No one ever bothered to ask what hurt him.  Are we never gonna address that his parents have always wanted to fix him? And by the show’s portrayal, they’re taking the route that "Yes, Henry has something broken in him that should be fixed, but he can’t so instead let’s just imprison & kill him that’s the best and only thing you can do" I can’t express how incredibly ableist this is. Do you see why I’m so fricking mad that they used explicitely neurodivergent narratives in his origin story?? Do you see why the Henry vs Eleven parallels is, yeah, kinda cool, but narratively wise is a "dangerous scary neurodivergent vs good and useful neurodivergent, learn to differenciate them only one is valid" and how that, like, literally parallels society’s wider ableist stigmatization and the way nazis categorized autistic people into categories of who deserved to live because they were smart enough and who to kill? I was watching the origin story of Henry, feeling for the kid relating to spiders and so lonely and miserable, and as I related the show played ominous music and all about the framing was designed to make us recoil in horror at every word, so what does it mean if I’m relating when I should be intrinsically repulsed?

Damaging ableism

Killing animals and other shit he went through are things that some real, irl kids go through, and they shouldn’t be put on a kill list for it, they can grow, they’re kids. It’s called conduct disorder, and it can be helped and redirected with therapists. Conduct disorder and other maladaptive behaviors most often form from trauma and abusive living conditions. A kid’s animal abuse shouldn’t be the line you draw to judge their innate value and goodness. 

These below are very real things people with stigmatized disorders and mental illnesses face in real life, and things which Stranger Things supports with Henry Creel:  - Forced hospitalization and being involuntarily restrained are more common and more widely accepted.  - Having their diagnosis brought up in court to devalue their testimony and stances, to support a bias against them. - All of their actions ever are analyzed under the scope that their goal is to manipulate and/or done with ill intentions. Often tied with point above. - Similarly to above, having their feelings and experiences invalidated. Having their experiences gaslighted. Being seen as abusers immediately despite whatever they’ve done if anything, and unwillingness of being seen as abuse victim themselves, despite it being one of the biggest causes of some disorders. - Having their fight or flight and trauma responses judged as an action committed with full intents and capacities and as a way to assess their innate morality. - Can’t be trusted to make any choice ever, including what is good for them and their healing process. - Denied help by professionals due to being too much of a “tough/serious case”. Denied support by most for their diagnosis alone. - Not being able to open up about their issues to anyone because they will be judged and abandoned.

Other things Stranger Things encourages in dealing with neurodivergent people who make you uncomfortable with their symptoms: - Fearing and denying support for a neurodivergent child with or without conduct disorder, both if it’s your child or a patient. - The overall, extreme dehumanization of anyone who feels or seems creepy to you. Wether it be because of behavior, diagnosis or vibe, or whatever else.

I’ve debated with many of my friends on Henry Creel’s emotional turmor and humanity. My thesis every time: that Henry Creel was a victim of abuse and deserving of a sympathetic framing through it. Every time the other started hostile to the idea, very reluctant to the idea of him having emotional depth and issues that are born from pain and hurt. Every time, they ended up conceding that the show made things out to be much more black and white than they were. My point is that when doing these debates, a large portion of their points on how Henry never deserved sympathy were either ableist or easily explained by “yeah but that was largely caused by abuse, which is what I’m asking you to acknowledge”. Henry Creel’s portrayal actively drives people to be ableist and ungenerous to him, his experiences and his pain. Stranger Things said that Henry should have been forcibly hospitalized from a young age and never trusted in the presence of anyone, he should have been controlled as soon as possible and monitored carefully and closely. Stranger Things said Henry Creel isn’t capable of growing as a person, while never extending a genuine hand of help. Invalidated, evil and wrong on every point, abused for the majority of his life, Henry should have been able to grow and become better on his own without help because he doesn’t deserve help, and even with that growth who knows if he’s “truly” good now and if he deserves to be forgiven. When Henry Creel opened up about his perspective and life to the one person he had ever trusted and liked, that person immediately recoiled and violently lashed out at them. People keep using the ways Henry reacted to trauma as ammunition of how murderous and evil he is without attempting to seeing his point of view. People dismiss the idea of Henry having any positive intentions, thoughts, hobbies or feelings ever because he “has no empathy” and “insert other ableist reasoning”. The hatred of Henry Creel is one that is first and foremost built upon the denial of compassion. 

Hope? 

Yeah, if there’s one thing we can always hope for, it’s better for the next season. There are a lot of spots amiss. Will Stranger Things 5 come back and explain how his mother realized he was causing the visions? Will we learn more about the guilty horrific visions of their past horrible deeds? Is there any sort of redemption or de-escalation arc that’s on the table at all? 

This from the staff does give me hope. In the remaining time, Henry Creel’s character does a lot more harm to the neurodivergent community than good.

In the end, so far, the show tried as best as it could to fit Henry Creel in small square boxes. The same boxes that caused his core issues, and the same boxes that neurodivergent people don’t often fit into. 

Man. Wtf were they thinking. So much cool psychology themes potential but you make Vecna one note wtf. There is so much ground for interesting themes and you choose ableism wtf wtf. Why BLACK WIDOWS?? Why with that explanation??? If you wanted to make Henry a evil emotionless dude you should have chosen scorpions dude. Like? That tale of the scorpion that sunk itself and its ally after lying with the end punch of "Why did you sting me? Because I’m a scorpion." Would have been perfect and not ask for a deeper reading. But nooo it was "black widows are misunderstood and feared when they are just amoral beings that want to live and do nothing wrong” and for some reason they truly are born monsters according to the show.

I am sorry but the narrative of "I am so alienated from humanity that I will cling onto these ugly hated bugs living in my house that were just chilling to get any sense of belonging, we’re both so alike. We’re both miserable but have the power to not be helpless anymore. To have our turn being the ones in control of who has a right to live. And I’ll channel all that bitterness and hurt into making the world free of what has brought me pain and leave it objectively better for it" is just too raw and full of hurt that I will never not have empathy for him, and I will repeat this as many times as I have to.

Okay. This is as done as I’ll get it to be I think. Jesus. If people want to debate that’s fine but tbh I don’t think I’ll respond, I’ve debated and written so much already. Yeah some of this could be worded better but like, if you need me to be Shakespear to grant compassion I’m sorry to say that your compassion doesn’t mean much... To me, now, anyways.

Like I said it’s fine if u liked the way it was executed or whatever, you do you, as long as you acknowledge the problematic, deliberate choices I’ve done my job I think. If you don’t care about the ableist treatment though we’re gonna have beef, but pleaseee I’m anti-harassment just leave me alone and we’ll be fine.

Extra, lowkey relevant video to watch if you want, to grow perspective and empathy for those you deem too far gone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azRl1dI-Cts&ab_channel=TEDxTalks