#is this discourse? idk i don't mean for it to be because again just in case it got lost in translation: i think there's a lot of merit to i

[pseudophan]

i think people on twitter have a fighting fetish because otherwise what explains this nonsense

it's genuinely unbelievable at this point i swear they're inventing new things to argue about

[whiskeyswifty]

.

[fakeosirian]

☕️ sinner arc?

O H B O Y

full disclosure i still have not done my note-taking s3 rewatch so i'm liable to misremember (or just not remember) things but i thiiiink i'm confident enough in this opinion to post. it's not supposed to be "discoursey" tho i'm focusing on my crits of this arc more than the compliments because that's what i've done more thinking about. thank you for enabling this and also i'm sorry because you've unleashed the beast <3

thesis statement: the sinner arc, as it is, is both totally natural and consistent with the narrative up to that point and also a HUGE break from the rest of the show tone-wise, craft-wise, and tbh emotionally to the point that i think that it was kiiiiiiiind of a mistake. or at least it's hindered by being the final arc of the show (not counting TOR). some of my sour grapes are just personal bias against certain kinds of "whittling down the cast" plots, but after thinking it over for a While, tbh it bothers me moreso because the things i would change are very simple and would make a world of difference craft-wise without really changing any of the major plot beats or undermining the good parts. (and thus it's disappointing to me that that's not what we got when i feel like the creative team already avoided those exact issues in earlier parts of the show...)

so ok. getting this out of the way: i may come off harsh on this arc because i find it very stressful to watch for personal reasons LMAO so i'll hand this to it: it's very good at getting the desired emotions out of me (extreme discomfort/despair), so if that's the only metric you're using to judge quality, there you go: it's good.

unfortunately it also makes me sad about the state of the characters in a way that...you could interpret as success? but this is the bit that, even accounting for my bias, i think is Not Good. let me explain:

s1 and s2 do an excellent job of manipulating implied perspective of scenes to put characters you're primed to dislike in slow-burn situations that at first exacerbate their flaws and then give them a shot at, not necessarily "redemption," but...imperfect mutual understanding. examples: victor perceived as literally murderous is revealed to be a victim (and later perpetrator) of a generational cycle of abuse; joy, as a victim of that cycle of abuse, lashes out and victimizes others; patricia, eddie, and jerome have more moments from their povs, so it's not quite as dramatic, but they experience a similar character arc as well.

on the flip side, you also get characters whose povs you get as your "main lens" (that can trick you into thinking youre viewing an objective pov) that have biases that become apparent as they interact with those "villainized" characters and react in ways inconsistent with the tone of the scene (thinking of nina and mara here primarily, but fabian also is a good example of this). that's how you get nina flipping out at the friends that SHE CURSED to the point that finally, FINALLY, she acknowledges that she's gone too far. (i should do a writeup on the curse arc and her behavior leading up to it because i think it's a fascinating commentary on the nature of being an "audience insert" that sort of gained sentience over time lol.) mara is self-explanatory here because she cannot help herself from cooking up the WORST possible response to a mundane relationship problem, and yet the tone of the scenes from her pov ends up being extremely sympathetic to her feelings (the way it's shot, edited, the music cues, etc.) in a way that fosters a really neat type of dissonance between text and subtext that doesn't signpost/announce itself until it's already Very There.

when these two different methods for handling character clash, as an audience, you're simultaneously told how to feel (those tonal cues i was talking about) but also left enough clues to change your mind (which i think the generally pro-joy tone of the discourse on this website is proof that people will do and is an intended potential experience of the show tbh). the moral/emotional result of that is a really neat commentary on subjectivity, how complicated reconciliation is, and how the only people too far gone to improve themselves are those who simply don't want to. the scene at the end of s2 with nina giving victor the tear makes me so emotional because it's an olive branch, an acknowledgment of the complicated nature of the situation and that victor has been a horrible person and made horrible choices in the past, but he does not have to keep doing that, and he does make the right choice when push comes to shove. same thing with joy in the senet arc (and i love that fabian is simultaneously the pov character and honestly the antagonist because of his inability to manage his emotions until the end), and honestly, same thing with patricia in early s1 re: her paranoia surrounding nina.

so what does this have to do with the sinners? well, they pretty much fly in the face of that entire writing philosophy on a fundamental, functional level, by design. considering "that philosophy" is just...earnest emotionally satisfying character writing in a story primarily driven by its characters and how they interact with one another over time...that's not great!

the leadup to a sinner capture is great. the afterwards is my issue. you take these characters who are in a narrative about not letting your flaws define you forever and you erase and overwrite their personality to be their singular greatest flaw, and then you reverse that and snatch away their memories to add insult to injury. that's not character regression (which is a completely legit avenue and is why the sinner captures are great in theory) -- it's anti-development, anti-human. it's certainly made worse by the fact that it's the show's final arc and thus the ex-sinners don't get a chance to process their experience on screen (needing that closure for myself is why i'm writing flat on your face lol), but even if it was addressed in the show in the best manner possible, it'd still feel cheap to me because it's agency-stripping and deeply cynical by design.

the thing is, this is deeply fixable. there's no singular way, but one i'm particularly interested in experimenting with is having the "sinner" be a sort of alter-ego that takes over in certain circumstances, subverting the conscious mind and leaving behind memory gaps and inconsistencies that lead the sinners to doubt themselves just as much as the other characters. it'd heighten the themes of misplaced trust that s3 is doing a lot of work with, and it would give the sinners a chance to still be their characters, have agency, continue to develop, and idk imagining a scenario where patricia or fabian is desperately begging someone to NOT trust them sounds fucking delicious to me. also other thing: it'd also fix something that's not really a "mistake" but just makes me sad, which is the fact that once a sinner is taken...that's pretty much it for their character as you know them for the rest of the show. like yeah, they're still there, but man, when the show was airing and fabian got taken, i straight up felt like he died, lol.

there's another issue that that proposed solution would sort of solve? but tbh is just another consequence of this type of plotline, which is: zero-sum game character development, or characters getting their quality/development sacrificed for the development of other characters. i do not like that patricia, easily one of the most complex and interesting characters on the show who goes back and forth between evolving and devolving as a person regularly in a way that feels sympathetic and consistent with her previous behavior and environment, has that progress torched and flattened for the sake of eddie's development. it's not necessarily poorly conceived or structured or illegitimate, but it's hella depressing for me to watch, personally. if it felt like she had more agency as a sinner (ie. the way sinners function being changed fundamentally), i wouldn't mind as much/it wouldn't feel like as much of a zero-sum sacrifice, but as it stands, her sinner capture and subsequent existence is completely centered on making eddie maximum miserable enough to move the plot forward. that's where i feel like i need to rewatch because that's certainly an uncharitable read, so that take is accompanied with a metric ton of salt!

that brings me to my other semi-gripe (less significant than the above but worth talking about): who specifically gets taken.

victor getting taken at all, but especially first, kinda rubs me the wrong way because following s2 where he was getting taken for a ride just as much as the kids were (if not more), its sad to see him flattened back into the caricature he was through the kids' pov in early-mid s1, except this time he's actually just like that. i do feel like taking victor is natural, though, so i'm not totally against him being a sinner/he's a character that i think can survive being made this sort of pseudo-"irredeemable" without being retroactively ruined because he's always been a tragic character. sweet, though should not have been taken, full stop, and i legit hate that as a writing choice.

when it comes to the kids, i understand the thinking behind taking old guard sibuna and it does appeal to me to have old vs new happening within the greater landscape of s3 and the show as a whole, but i think it's missing the trees for the forest a bit. it's too focused on the subtextual positioning rather than the material reality of what patricia, fabian, and alfie are feeling and doing as individuals -- not so much re: patricia and fabian (they were cruising for a bruising), but alfie. like idk alfie isn't always a saint but mara was right there. (jerome was right there. joy was right there. i dont necessarily think either of them would have made good sinners -- frankly they might have made me angrier actually and mara is PERFECT PERFECT IDEAL -- but they make more sense than alfie to me.)

re: fabian, his capture is easily the best scene of all the captures, despite the fact that it makes me physically ill (honestly because it makes me physically ill lol), and that's because it's founded in previous behavior (senet arc is basically the blueprint for the sinner arc in many, many ways) and exceptionally tragic to see as a result because you like him, but he's been off the rails lately. the thing is, i love him being messy, but i hate the permanence of the consequences, like all you need to do is have one (frankly deeply semantic) slipup of character, and boom, you're evil forever unless your bestie can clean up your mess. it's good writing, but the message it sends is nasty, which like i feel like i've probably said a million times in this post, is sort of the whole deal with the sinners.

tl;dr: the sinner arc is powerful emotionally, and i enjoy picking apart the effects it would have on the characters in fanfic (so i'm not full on pro-revisionism lol), but it's just too cynical for me to vibe with and enjoy watching. i love the rest of the show for how earnest and unwavering it is in its belief in people, so seeing it take that turn for the intensely cynical gut punch right at the end -- even if everything works out in the end -- will always be somewhat off-putting to me. i feel like there's more i want to say to further explain that, but i've already spun my wheels enough here, so i'll save it for a follow-up once i've finally cracked and done that deep-dive rewatch, lol.

tysm for asking!! <3

[virtue-boy]

Its kind of insane like genuinely insane how many people on here have no idea what life is like for average people in the third world / global majority and the Neo-colonialism that creates those conditions to support conditions in the North and how insanely cruel they can be as the absolute baseline and the type of killing and death that maintains the boundaries between the north and the south.

Like tell me you've never met an immigrant or refugee without telling me. Do you genuinely not know what happens to people who get deported, or work in the farms or meatpacking factories that feed the North?? The child deaths in the border crossings? The mines all over the globe? The people that die from lack of baseline vaccinations and sanitation and healthcare trademarked by western companies? The literal MILLIONS of third worlders killed in the wars across the globe defending US economic hegemony? The agent orange, the land mines, the carpet bombing, the drones? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[i-have-zero-chill]

there's actually nothing wrong with seeing Tommy as a plot device to lead to buddie it's just the way some of us are interpreting the story. people on the internet get so offended by others interpreting a show in a way they disagree with. like they literally take it as a personal slight even though we're all on here just writing metas about made up people. and i'm glad we're all here doing that because it gives us serotonin but at a certain point you need to realize none of it is that deep. the idea that bucktommy being canon somehow erases all the choices the show has made over the years that point to buddie as a love story is ridiculous.

yes i think Tommy is good for Buck. no i don't think they'll be endgame. yes I'm enjoying their relationship and i hope we get more next season. yes i think Buck and Eddie are soulmates and there's no getting around that. this is simply how i'm consuming the show and i'm not doing it to spite other shippers specifically. why can't we all just consume content the way we want and leave it at that.

[transandrobroism]

an observation from several posts/conversations that could really help in avoiding a lot of misunderstandings: often when people talk about 'transmisogyny', they are using the term 'transmisogyny' to mean at least three different things simultaneously and conflating different meanings of the term in discussions. in general usage i've seen 'transmisogyny' used to mean:

transmisogyny-as-phenomena - i.e. 'transmisogyny' as a term for the intersection of transphobia and misogyny, a common feature of transfems' experiences;

transmisogyny-as-framework - in which transmisogyny is elevated to the level of a conceptual framework for understanding all transphobia. under this meaning everyone is encouraged/expected to conceptualise their experiences of transphobia through the lens of transmisogyny and run it through a filter of "how does this relate back to transmisogyny as the primary driving force for all transphobia"

on top of this both uses of the term are also conflated with the TMA/TME framework that divides people into two neat categories of those affected or primarily targeted by transmisogyny (transmisogyny affected, or TMA) and those exempt from transmisogyny and only accidentally impacted by it (transmisogyny exempt, or TME).

conflating all these meanings with each other is how you end up with soggy takes like "rejecting the label of TME is denying transfems the right to define and discuss their own oppression" which is a real thing that someone (transmasc) said to me. treating these concepts as all interchangeable meanings of the term transmisogyny contributes to a lot of the discourse and (frankly) animosity about discussions of transandrophobia, because when someone says something like "idk i just don't think transmisogyny is adequate as a robust framework for understanding how all transphobia works" or "dividing the world into TMA/TME is a flawed way of viewing transphobia and replicates the gender binary we're all trying to dismantle", that's a critique of transmisogyny-as-framework, but is read as a rejection of transmisogyny-as-phenomena, and thus is viewed as invalidating transfems' experiences.

add to that the fact that i've seen some people insist that transmisogyny is not just an umbrella term for the ways transfems experience transphobia but just means the intersection of transphobia and misogyny - but at the same time people insist that AFAB (trans) people are all exempt from transmisogyny by default and that our experiences should be discussed as 'misdirected transmisogyny'. which renders the de facto meaning of the term 'transmisogyny' an umbrella term for transfem experiences from which anyone not transfem is exempt.

the conflation of terms and definitions means any critique of transmisogyny or TMA/TME is taken as a denial of transfems' experiences. it also means that when transmascs propose a term like 'transandrophobia' - meaning the intersection of the identity positions of 'trans' and 'man', or more broadly a term for commonly-shared experiences of transmascs - that's read as an argument that all men are systemically oppressed for being men (it's not) and/or that transmascs are proposing transandrophobia-as-framework (again, not the case). but because 'transmisogyny' can refer interchangeably to both transphobic phenomena and experiences and a proposed conceptual framework for transphobia in general, the term 'transandrophobia' is misconstrued as a conceptual framework. we say "we've come up with a term to describe our experiences as transmascs" and people hear "you need to conceptualise all your experiences with transphobia in terms of the oppression of transmascs and centre our experiences in your discussions about your own marginalisation".

the reality is that most people discussing transandrophobia are not denying that transfems experience transphobia or denying that transmisogynistic phenomena happen. objections to the TMA/TME distinction are objections to a conceptual framework that treats all transphobia as just transmisogyny in a trenchcoat, and not a denial that transfems experience transmisogyny or are 'not oppressed' or whatever else.

for the record, i have no beef with transmisogyny either as a term for the intersection of transphobia and misogyny or as a term for shared transfem experiences. my critiques of transfeminst thinking are theoretical, namely:

transmisogyny-as-framework presupposes that the major driving force of all transphobia is a desire to target/punish trans women and that everyone else is caught in the crossfire. i don't think that's adequate as a conceptual framework because transphobia is better understood as a result of a gender-essentialist society punishing all non-normative performance of gender. it also relies on a lot of faulty assumptions about the transphobia that transmascs experience. transphobia experienced by transmascs is treated as a category-typical experience of transphobia (i.e. trans men get the 'just transphobia' version, whilst transfems get the 'transphobia plus' version)... but also transmasc oppression must be framed in terms of 'misdirected (trans)misogyny'. you can't treat trans men as having the most typical, 'basic' experience of transphobia whilst also insisting all transphobia is actually a form of transmisogyny misdirected at other trans people. those two positions are mutually contradictory. if all transphobia is actually about transmisogyny then transfems are getting the default transphobia experience and transmascs/trans nonbinary people/etc are all getting variations of that, not the other way around.

if you want to use transmisogyny as a framework for understanding all of transphobia, you cannot label anyone as exempt from transmisogyny. if transmisogyny is the proposed framework for understanding all transphobic discrimination of any trans person of any gender, then you are saying we all exist in a system of transmisogyny. therefore none of us are exempt from it. and if you're proposing transmisogyny-as-framework for all trans experiences, then all trans people get to weigh in on it, because you're applying it to all of us. i get to disagree with the framework being coercively applied to my experiences and i should be able to do that without being called transmisogynistic, because critiquing a framework you're asking every trans person to submit to is not synonymous with hating on trans women or denying their lived experiences or saying they're not oppressed. you can't insist that transmascs are TME by default whilst also insisting we only ever discuss our experiences as 'misdirected transmisogyny'. and you definitely can't label all transmascs as exempt from transmisogyny whilst simultaneously insisting we use transmisogyny as the conceptual framework within which we understand our oppression. that's trying to have your cake and eat it.

the TMA/TME framework is just reinventing binary gender but with extra steps. especially since in practice determining whether someone is TMA or TME seems to involve an awful lot of focus on people's assigned gender and what genitals they were born with.

a lot of this theorising follows a very radfem pattern of dividing everyone into two gendered categories, labelling one of those categories to Privileged Oppressor Class, and then heavily policing who gets to belong to the Oppressed Victims Class based on their genitals and socialisation. at which point you're just doing TERFism from the other direction. any framework that proposes we can understand gendered experiences in terms of a strict binary is automatically throwing intersex and nonbinary people under the bus. a comprehensive theory of trans experiences must have space for nonbinary identities and intersex experiences otherwise it is incomplete.

i'm making this post in good faith and i'm not denying the impact of transmisogyny on transfems. but i do think theorising around transmisogyny and TMA/TME as a framework have a number of flaws and i'm not going to use those frameworks to talk about my own experiences because they are theoretically inadequate. a robust theory of transphobia and trans experiences must have room for all trans experiences within it, as well as overlapping experiences of gendered oppression such as intersexism, misogyny, butchphobia etc. TMA/TME ain't it.

[woodchoc-magnum]

idk. i'm annoyed.

i realise i am a fandom old at this point

and i have seen some shit in this fandom; witnessed the discourse.

and i don't post meta or spec or much of that stuff; i usually put all my ideas into fics.

but guys seriously. seriously.

eddie's current arc is not about buck.

buck and eddie are not currently dating.

buck is eddie's best friend and vice versa.

eddie is not cheating on buck.

eddie is lying to buck by omission, yes, but that is not a friendship ending offence.

eddie is on the very cusp of cheating right now. he went on a date with another woman, yes. he has not kissed her or slept with her. we are at a tipping point. we do not know what is going to happen next.

he only went on a date with another woman because she reminded him of shannon, who he is not over, who he has spent seasons trying to replace.

the point of this show is that none of the characters are perfect - and especially not buck and eddie. they all make mistakes. they have all made mistakes and will continue to do so because in real life, people don't always make the right decisions 100% of the time.

this black-and-white, morally righteous way of thinking, like eddie is suddenly evil now because he's on the cusp of cheating; that it's going to end his friendship, that buck is going to be angry at him for lying - do you have friends in real life? like, i am genuinely asking.

because if my best friend suddenly started cheating on her husband, i wouldn't be mad at her - i would be worried. am i alone in this? like i would be genuinely concerned and trying to help figure out what's going on.

all the shit i'm seeing in the fandom today, all of the spec posts and commentary about the episode and what might potentially happen, just feels like, once again, an attempt to paint eddie as the villain in the story to prop up buck. let's make eddie so terrible that buck has to have custody of christopher, right?

clearly none of you understand how a will works. it's for after you're dead. not for when you're alive.

but the main issue is this - now that buck has tommy, the people who tolerated eddie can stop pretending to like him. there's another option for buck now, so you guys don't need eddie anymore. right? am i fucking right??

i love drama as much as the next person, but in what world would buck turn on eddie because of this? in what world would the 118 shun him? he is their friend! they love him! they care about him! they are a family!

my god, nobody shunned hen when she cheated on karen. nobody shuns bobby and he indirectly killed 140 people!

eddie is a good person who makes mistakes, just like every single other character on the show.

that is the fucking point.

and the way ryan was talking in the interviews - isolation could mean any number of things. we know eddie has a tendency to isolate himself when he's feeling stressed out - does anyone remember season 3? season 5? buck literally broke down his door!

i'm just fucking tired of this bullshit.

eddie's not a bad guy because of this. he has done shitty things, yes. they all have. that's the fucking point of the show, and if you can't understand that or appreciate adult story-telling, then fuck off and watch riverdale.

[lvcashael]

please don't jump me I'm not here for the ship wars

I've just been thinking, and I feel like maybe the buddie shippers (not all of the buddies obv, but some) who overanalyze bucktommy scenes to find negative subtext tend to forget that the show... isn't... written... for them?

Like, the writers aren't writing episodes with only an audience of hyperanalytical shippers in mind. This is a network TV procedural drama. They are writing the show with the general audience in mind. 😭 AND, as someone else pointed out, each episode is written like 2 weeks in advance, because Tim likes to live dangerously apparently lmao. I love this show, I'm not trying to disparage it or insult the writers.

What I'm saying, is that nothing in the writing or in Oliver's acting indicates that (for example) Bobby saying Tommy is "good" for Buck actually means the opposite, or that Buck was in any way uncomfortable with the daddy kink joke (your honor, he was leading the witness. he started the flirty exchange!!)

There are no hidden hints here.

This is not like some of Buck's previous relationships where other characters like Eddie have expressed concern or dislike over his girlfriends. Absolutely everybody (minus maybe the Buckley parents but who cares about them) has been supportive of buck and tommy dating, and, again, Bobby himself explicitly stated that it is GOOD that they are dating.

But idk man. I'm just tired of the discourse.

[stardustbuck]

I feel like atp even if there were plans to make bvddie canon theyre gone now. if tim minear is even half as petty as I am he would see that reaction and go u know what fuck you u actually don't get what you want now cause ur acting so goddamn entitled. like when tarlos fans got mad about the deleted scenes instead of appreciating them being released and his reaction was to say "okay fine then I just won't release deleted scenes anymore" (like I'm sure it was mostly a marketing decision but part of me thinks they intentionally released a scene about bucktommy just to prove a point.) idk man it's just really upsetting as a bi man to see the absolutely vile shit bvddie stans are saying and even tho I love the ship I now never want it to go canon cause they've fuckin ruined it

hey anon, at first let me agree with the fact that i do in fact also love bvddie a lot and i still love reading fics for them, the edits of them are fantastic and the fanart is S tier. it’s a great pairing with a lot of potential there IF the writers decided to ever go there but…

huge answer below

yeah, i agree. i honestly think before tommy was introduced again in 7x03 and the kiss in 7x04 that in my brain, bvddie was the most logical endgame for buck until it wasn’t.

i came into the show shipping bvddie much like a lot of new fans to the show but instead of hopping onto the tommy anti express hate train i found myself falling in love with buck and tommy together. at first i was still on board with bvddie still being endgame but as each episode aired after 7x04 i became faced with the reality of the situation (at least the way i see it) that bvddie might always be fanon and that’s ok because fandom keeps ships alive whether they’re canon or not. some of the biggest ships EVER are non-canon (i mean, cmon spirk? one of the OG MM ships?) so it didn’t really deter me from enjoying bvddie to this day. what HAS deterred me from interacting with bvddie content is toxic bvddies. i don’t like using the lil nicknames, idc if other ppl do, whatever, but i prefer just referring to certain kinds as just toxic plain and simple.

toxic shippers have made it difficult for anyone who multiships to interact with bvddie content. while there are incredibly nice & welcoming bvddie endgamers out there, it doesn’t overshadow the hateful ones in my online experience at least. i’ve blocked so many ppl over this ship discourse, which ive never had to do with any other fandom before the extent i have with 911. everyday i still find new ppl to block, you go under almost any comment section on the 911 insta and its filled with nasty comments abt tommy and only caring abt whether bvddie will be canon in s8. people projecting their hatred of tommy/lou onto the cast/crew of the show when it’s be said and proven time and time again that it’s quite the opposite. now im certain there’s bad apples in the bucktommy side as well, but from what ive seen online so far it is not nearly to the caliber of the bvddie side. ive blocked maybe a handful of bucktommy’s for being hateful towards eddie or being toxic overall, but ive probably blocked over 100+ toxic bvddies. i can only imagine it’d be worse if i was active on 911 twt which i’m not (thank god) but i have ventured into the tags before on there and let me tell you, it’s fucking horrifying how gross ppl are over there. twt is a cesspool for fandom anyways tho, the fucking asshole of fandom, it’s a septic tank really.

now im my own opinion which could be completely untrue of course, but just basing my thoughts on what i’ve seen online and interviews and such, tim seems to be really happy about bucktommy and idk how ppl believe otherwise. tim has expressed he loves LFJ and wanted him back on the show. tim showed up on set for the kiss scene. tim posting an entire youtube vibe abt bucktommy being soulmates that touches on the invisible string theory and explains how they accidentally found buck’s perfect match. tim sharing the deleted tommy scene is also huge but im waiting to see if he releases more (because i remember seen somewhere that he said there’d be more?) and if he does then great but it’s also still pretty telling to me after the whole karaoke fiasco.

oliver has said nothing but praises towards buck’s queer storyline. he quite literally said if you dont like it then watch something else. despite ppl saying he’s never interacted with bucktommy content online, that’s a lie because he has liked fanart of them.

aisha, kenneth & tracie have all expressed how they like tommy/lou and love working with him.

jlh said she loved bvddie before but is excited to see where buck and tommy go and then on an insta live said she doesn’t think bvddie is happening and was bombarded by toxic fans to the point of ending the live early.

ppl think it’s all some ruse to make it seem like bvddie is never happening so when it does happen it’s a “surprise” ……..

the nasty hate comments are doing nothing but exposing these types of ppl for who they are and that honestly to them, 911 is just the bvddie show to them. the people who run these social media accs for 911 are looking at these comments and cringing, they aren’t running to tim and abc being like “we must give these crazies what they want!” they’re mostly likely being ignored or honestly, as you said, being looked at and just reinforcing their decision to most likely make tommy buck’s endgame so as long as his schedule is open for filming.

what gets me the most about the hate these types of shippers spew online is how they aren’t embarrassed because they are so sooo convinced they will be right one day and therefore their insane, nasty behavior online will be justified. oliver stark literally left twt because of fans like this, people act like he was joking around, that he was shooting the shit probably because “he’s british and british people just have that kind of humor” which yes to a certain extent but let me just add these posts to set an example to why if oliver were still on twt he absolutely would not be happy with the way toxic bvddies are acting right now.

oliver (and ryan&other cast too) being positive abt bvddie never meant it was going to be canon of become canon one day. they do not decide these things, whether they believe it should or not. a lot of bvddie shippers come from previous fandoms where queerbaiting was there, where they were made fun of by actors of their ships, by the creators of the show! so i understand the frustration but oliver is not queerbaiting and buck is not a queerbait character when he quite literally is now confirmed bisexual and in a relationship with a man.

he’s just not the “correct” queer to these people. despite headcanons (hell even i hc eddie as queer!!) eddie so far, in canon, is not queer. by the end s7 he is still shown to not be over shannon and ruins his relationship with his son over this. ryan has stated in interviews he sees eddie as heterosexual, possibly pushing this because of the influx of ship discourse, and he’s glad to see a vulnerable and deep friendship that buck and eddie can have as a straight man and a queer man and how important he thinks it is.

every single thing that points to bvddie never going canon is like they’re being shot point blank in the chest. i get it, your ship not becoming canon sucks, but again, that is what fandom is for! shipping has never been about how canon smth is, there is 20k fics out there for bvddie and they aren’t canon. they can turn that into 40k, 100k, 1M if they really wanted to! instead they use their time and energy posting death threats, wishing death upon a gay character, bullying ppl online for enjoying a ship.

meanwhile from what ive seen bucktommys are rolling with goofy ass spy tommy theories created by antis and making jokes for our own fun.

so yes, i agree overall. they truly don’t deserve what they think they do. we didn’t whine and scream for a deleted scene. they did. we got ours without even expecting it and are having fun.

maybe if they behaved better i wouldn’t be so petty abt it. it’s a shame because of how much potential it has, unfortunately it is just not going that way atm. and even if it does one day, it is not because they paraded online with hate, it is because that’s the story tim and the others wanted to write and abc approved it.

🫳🎤

[decolonize-the-everything]

There are straight men in power banning trans people, outlawing queer books, and banning gay marriage again, and we're about to have a woman president cosigning genocide.

I think maybe the queer community needs to stop engaging what is at this point blatantly psyop discourse meant to make us hate each other. This isn't even veiled homophobia. Like it's just homophobia. Straight men are misogynist too. Men in general even so it's bizarre that this person specified queer men.

Like I'm sorry Gay Gary fucking sucks and is a man that worships patriarchy, but he also makes minimum wage at Starbucks so maybe we have bigger things to worry about than specifically making Kevin feel unwelcome in queer spaces.

Like any of the 500+ anti-lgbt bills that were presented this year. Or actually codifying gay marriage. Or if you care about women, getting Roe v Wade codified or changing constitutional language so that the rights of men will ALWAYS apply to all genders, Not just men or white men or white women (like in the case of voting). Or you could support the Equal Rights Ammendment and organize more support for that.

Keeping misogynist gay men out of gay safe spaces isn't gonna give any of us rights or protections even if it does make the space more welcoming for women and femmes and I know ppl aren't gonna like this but if you really find that necessary then create additional spaces specifically for that purpose.

Because queer/LGBT spaces are for ALL queer/LGBT people. Being LGBT/queer is the only prerequisite.

We aren't a monolith, remember? One of the foundational arguments for our rights is that we are just people like everyone else!

Queer people are capable of being Republicans and Democrats and doctors and nurses and teachers and racists and activists and philosophers, JUST LIKE THE STRAIGHTS. Just like everyone else! And it's our right to be treated with the same complexity and freedom to be as they are.

It's not a reflection of their orientation. Nobody is going around like "yeah if you're straight you shouldn't be voting Republican" because they aren't being dehumanized and having their entire being reduced to who they do/don't sleep with and having their identities regulated by their choices.

Don't do that to each other.

The point of community is being a community. You don't abandon the community you have cuz your community will the ONLY people that have your back. At the end of the day gay Republicans also need a gay bar to retreat to and be comfortable and themselves at. And when they're there they're grateful that at the very least nobody is gonna give them a hard time for being gay.

Bitching at gay men about misogyny is basically a mean lesbian past time, besides. Stonewall happened because the Black drag king, Stormé Delarverie, who got clubbed and fighting cops was just being ogled by other lgbts who just watched and she yelled, "why don't you guys do something?" so they did. In fact, Stormé Delarverie often patrolled the area with a rifle to keep lesbians safe.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And do you think she stopped to do a tally of who's problematic and who wasn't before they started to de-arrest Stormé? Do you think Stormé would have just let lesbians be harassed if they were racist?

No.

Cuz when that Republican gay needs backup against homophobes you know who he's gonna call? That mean lesbian who ripped into him about misogyny that one time and would fight anyone if they were acting ugly. At the end of the fucking day we are the only people who will look for each other. Quit acting otherwise and fighting with each other.

To deny someone a safe space is to deny part of their humanity.

Idk when the queer community forgot that but I hope this serves as a reminder.

[stopthatfool]

also what are some of your favourite mav headcanons? Or just thoughts about top gun in general your opinions are so correct

another one! YAAAAAAA! thank u cal i will now yap. (warning all my headcanons stick really close to canon and aren't very like.. "fun." they're more or less just crazed character analyses)

thinking about THE mav is not a twink post i made like a month ago. i saw someone call it the "twink mav discourse" and honestly it's my magnum opus. my friend took a pic of me holding up a sign that said "I started top gun tumblr discourse" it was great.

other than that, I definitely think mav has adhd. I mean that's how i write his thought processes at least. I always think of him skipping over words when reading, not due to "inattention" but just because he's eager to get to the point, or he just automatically thinks the smaller words are less important, therefore can be skipped. (I do this all the time. I'm really terrible at reading out loud because of it.) Plus the classic mav acting without thinking is straight out of the adhd diagnosis. and the "appearing to be unable to listen to or carry out instructions."

That being said, i don't think mav would ever consider himself to have adhd or even think of it as an option. I'm very much on that "mav and ice are middle aged men who were in the military during the reagan administration therefore they definitely have some questionable beliefs and understandings of the world because and the environment of which they were trained." like mav is the type of guy to be like "ok you have adhd, that's fine i guess. but I don't. what r u talking about. like sure all these symptoms apply to me but i am the outlier i don't have a disability." Same with Ice and him reading all the OCD symptoms, my guy would literally just take it as proof that he's a really good soldier and further perpetuate his own OCD habits (no, ice! don't do that same movement over and over again until it feels right! ur spiraling ice! someone help him!)

I also have lots of feelings of how Ice and Mav would/wouldn't show physical affection. like i don't think they hold hands in public and I think it's a mix of DADT, internalized homophobia, and honestly wanting to keep their relationship as private as possible (which one could argue is another effect of DADT and simply being queer and in the american military in the 80s. like how did they not kill themselves, they're stronger than me). idk this is already getting long and convoluted so i will now stop.

[papabearbobbynash]

It's kinda curious and hilarious how twitter fandom always choses the Bobby/Bathena arcs to complain about long focused arcs.

I mean yeah we already saw Bobby Minesotta fire backstory, but we also already saw Eddie relationships failing because he doesn't realize he keeps looking a woman to fulfill a role of mother for Chris/A woman he can project his glorified relationship with Shannon. We also already saw Buck's multiple times navigating through feelings and LIs to discover a new self (the gender of the LI being different doesn't change it's basically the same thing), except for the representarion, that is always good and needed

"But it's new layers of the characters being shown, it's not the same", this also applies to Bobby.

We're actually about to see his childhood, something the writers never touched or explored before, so people acting like it will be the same stuff again is kinda ?? to me.

Also acting like thevcruise ship arc is at fault for madney wedding being short was hilarious to me, because the writers could totally have cut the nun bulshit with Marisol that had cost half episode of scenes where Eddie was spiralling over it. In fact, the writers could have finished eddiesol relationship off-screen way before, like it was done with bucktalia. This way Eddie didn't have to cheat and his fans didn't have to fight their lives trying to defend it due context/narrative. If the writers had cut any of that, we could have seen more of the wedding prep.

I'm not even afraid of them not wrapping storyline in two episodes for S7, because they legit don't need to rush. They guaranteed S8 so idk what is the need in rushing the arcs (Hen and Eddie's) to wrap the season. If the writers are smart they will leave arcs for S8

Anyway, sorry about the negativity, just ignore me. i'm just a little bit bitter because I only see this type of discourse when it's bathena/bobby arcs. It was like this with "The Devil You Know", same with cruise arc and now with "Bobby arc" that didn't even air.

[trigunsbbygirl]

Human Things that Confuse Knives Part 2

Made a second one since I had more ideas lol

content warnings: teeth, use bomb in an analogy, mention bruises. this one gets more into the body/anatomy idk what all people are comfy with so just in case

•Knives already thinks dreams are kinda weird, but those surreal ones and the utterly weird ones that just make no sense or seemed so real you wonder if it actually happened? he wants to know what's going on in your brain. Knives will listen to you as you recount your dream, he won't say much or make any facial reactions, but part of him is kinda amazed that your can brain come up with the weirdest, coolest and/or creepiest things ever.

•the concept of having baby teeth and adult teeth weirds Knives out. when Knives learns that you do lose your teeth as a kid he's staring at you like you've just grown a second head. don't tell him that you have wisdom teeth that usually need to be taken out via surgery as a teenager. (Vash is kinda grossed out by it. found out when a kid he was playing with ran up to him and was like 'look! my tooth fell out!:D' he panicked, thinking they got hurt, but it's replaced with horror, disbelief, slight disgust and concern when he finds out every human looses a set of teeth. he hates it a little. has no idea what to do when a kid tells him that a tooth fell out. help him)

•also. imagine Knives surprise when he learns about the appendix. you had been talking with a friend when you mentioned appendicitis and that you had to have surgery. it peaked his interest and when you're done talking, Knives asks about it. he stares at you in uncertainty and disbelief the further you explain. what do you mean there's a small pouch in your stomach that serves little to no function that can essentially become a bomb? Knives doesn't actually believe you until he looks it up. he wonders how humans have survived with bodies like that.

•same wonder when it comes to you having to take vitamins and other supplements because sometimes a body won't produce enough of something or too much.

•the fact the humans shed/lose hair. Knives knows that, but it kinda grosses him out a bit. he hates seeing your hair strands, makes you clean them up. (I hc that the twins just have little to no body hair and they don't actually lose hair strands.)

•double jointed people also weirds Knives out. what do you mean you can twist or bend a joint further than normal? it doesn't exactly creep or gross him out, but he doesn't like it. he'll never admit that, but he won't look/talk to you for a bit after you show off that flexibility.

•Knives is fascinated by the way your skin can change colors. (don't mention that he can turn a lovely shade of red, he gets all huffy.) but, anyways, he loves examining your face, watching as your face gets darker with certain things he does. (also likes seeing your facial expressions. humans are so expressive..) he also likes seeing your bruises and watching as the bruise changes colors over time as it heals. you joked one day that you could give him a bruise of his own that he can watch. he didn't like the joke (he prefers to give you (consensual) bruises.)

•now let's get into reverse Isekai for a bit.

•Knives does not fucking understand social media lmao. why the hell do you have to tell people you've never met what you did or thought that day and why are so many people interested? why do people do stupid things for views??

•he hates online discourse and always tunes you out when you try to talk about something that happened online. he doesn't care and thinks it's stupid.

•do NOT let him find out about stan culture or chronically online people. he's gonna lose any faith he had in humanity again. I wouldn't worry about that too much though. he has zero online presence, never uses social media outside of YouTube and even then he only uses it to watch documentaries or how to videos.

•memes confuse him a lot, especially how fast they come and go. you don't even know how to explain them to him. "why is this picture of a man just standing so funny?" "it just is? I don't know either." how do you even explain memes and internet culture to someone who's never been on the internet lol

•Knives thinks you're really weird if you've got a skewed sense of humor where something dramatically falling over makes you laugh(thinking of that waffle video.) he watches those types of videos with a straight face and when the video ends he just stares at you, wondering if you seriously think that's funny.

•he hates those youtube poop and deepfried videos. not only does he find them stupid and doesn't understand them, but they just bother his ears.

•bonus: Vash thinks the circadian rythym is pretty neat and that some people just know when to wake up. it took Vash a while to develop one, or at least, something like that since he doesn't technically need sleep. it'll never quite be the same though since he doesn't exactly get tired like humans do. it took decades for that type of tiredness to become present, but even still, he doesn't need it to survive.

[blackgirlsuperherorants]

Anyway, other thoughts on this movie and the discourse surrounding it.

"M'Baku was emasculated" Nah, not at all. "Why didn't he take the throne from Ramonda?" Why would he do that? He's not a man spirited person and he doesn't hate T'Challa or his family, he just disagreed with T'Challa's leadership. At the time of the blip, when Ramonda probably first took over as queen, it was probably more necessary for M'Baku to stand in solidarity with the queen to support a grieving country who had literally lost millions of people. When everyone blipped back, T'Challa was king, again. Then, when T'Challa died, he probably didn't challenge anything out of respect for the dead. M'Baku is very traditional, and he would never want to disturb Wakanda by staging what would essentially be a coup. During challenge day, he knew he was within his rights to challenge for the throne. That's why he showed up at Shuri's challenge day (and she likely gave it over to him, anyway.)

"How am I supposed to believe a tiny, skinny girl can beat up a god/mutant" My bothers and sisters in Christ, Shuri is a superhero. Like, with powers. Did y'all forget Steve Rogers was a 98 pound weakling? And that Peter Parker was a skinny 14 year old boy? Neither of them got significant training on how to be a superhero, they just got enhanced. When Shuri takes the herb, she's enhanced. No training necessary.

And also, she's fought in battles before! She was fighting in Black Panther, and she fought in the final battle in Endgame. Girl can fight, even without the herb, but with it... she's stronger and faster than Captain America. Remember that the super soldier serum is an inferior copy of what the heart shaped herb can do.

Also, it seems like nobody is excited enough about Namor being a confirmed mutant and what that means for the X-gene! He's 500 years old, and was born a mutant. That means that the X-gene in the MCU has been around for at least that long, likely longer because he likely inherited it from one or both parents. That means ANY NUMBER OF MUTANTS ARE CURRENTLY ALIVE IN THE MAIN MCU! THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY MULTIVERSE MUMBO JUMBO! They can just say that the Mutants have been living under the radar, like Namor has been. They can have existed as urban legends, myths, rumors, like Namor was to the people in the Yucatan. Idk about y'all, but I'm so excited for the possibilities! And I hope we get a better cinematic version of Storm than we've gotten in a long time! (Still team DeWanda Wise!)

[voidartisan]

Rebel Dashboard Simulator

🦎 lekkuhaver

😎 free-dantooine-deactivated-7976-994-5

this galaxy is so humancentric it hurts. "humanoid" this "near-human" that. don't care if they're the most abundant species overall they make up less than forty percent of sentient species. i hope you all realize how kriffing stupid you sound

🙍 steela-gerrera-lives Follow

i mean op makes a good point but aren't they also an order 66 apologist???

😎 free-dantooine-deactivated-7976-994-5

when will you idiots realize the Jedi were created to uphold the status quo. they were no better than stormtroopers and the galaxy is better off without them. fks

🚀 podracing-analyst Follow

the Jedi were a religious order???? not law enforcement???? stop spreading misinformation if you want ppl to take you seriously

the Jedi did have powers of arrest but that was because they were diplomats and bodyguards. they were arresting assassins, corrupt officials, mercenaries, slavers and crime bosses (y'know, people who were actually actively upholding and profiting off of oppressive social conditions), not shoplifters or protestors. the only reason that they came under Senate authority in the first place was because they were actively attempting to prevent themselves from becoming too powerful.

they were also second-class citizens in many ways (unpaid for their labor, no rep in the Senate despite depending on it for support, etc). stop slandering minority religious groups.

🦎 lekkuhaver

also here to say that even if the Jedi were law enforcement, the purge was still a genocide. they had centuries (if not millennia) of history, art, religious practice, and other culture that's just been completely erased. not to mention that literal CHILDREN were slaughtered during knightfall. kids incapable of what you're attributing to them.

#i mean I pretty much agree with the first point being a twi'lek myself #but can we stop misrepresenting the Jedi for two minutes??? #also don't go in the notes it's a bloodbath in there #tw:genocide #tw:child death #discourse tag #lekki talks

(24.3k notes)

🎨 spectre-spraypaint

thinking about dyeing my hair again but there are too many options

(98 notes)

🎨 spectre-spraypaint

😺 jabba-calrissian Follow

help how do I spumblr

🎨 spectre-spraypaint

this my little brother btw. you should welcome him with your bestworst anon hate

(2 notes)

🐈‍⬛ tooka-pics-daily

#tooka #lothcat #cute #photography

(12 notes)

🏔 queenofthehills

🏳‍🌈 gay-holofilm-society Follow

idk maybe i've been archiving suppressed clone wars records for too long. but. is it just me or is this shot of the Jedi general of the 3rd systems army kinda 👀

🌛 gungan-conspiracy Follow

holy force are there rebels young enough to not know who kriffing. obi-wan kenobi is

🎤 rebotastic Follow

great maker this image is giving me flashbacks to the jedi rpf discourse

🤖 protocol-droid-rebellion Follow

remember when that one spiktoker got investigated by the GAR during the clone wars for apparently including part of a classified holovid in one of their edits? those were the days

🧑‍🎤 myastromechromance Follow

you wouldn't last an hour in the asylum where they raised me

#FRRRRR #i still remember when rpf with him got popular #all of stewjonblr was flooded with asks about pet names in "stewjonian" #as if there's just one language and clan kenobi isn't incredibly large #encompassing multiple dialects #like girl even if i wanted to help you i couldn't #are u even sure he speaks his native language anymore. he was inducted as a toddler #anyway its too bad I got sick of his face seeing as he's a planetary treasure and all

(13.2k notes)

🥫 redrationbars

🔫 shabuir Follow

does anyone even like jogan fruit tho

🐐 tauntaunonhoth Follow

hey op who did you have to kill for that url

#mando heritage post #queue

(346.9k notes)

⚔ snips-in-space

ngl I totally forgot this account existed

(26.9k notes)

🦎 lekkuhaver

🌆 coruscant-official Follow

Don't forget to visit the lower levels during your time with us! The garbage piles and casual violence due complete neglect by the planetary government are part of the charm!

(92 notes)

🥫 redrationbars

hey so what's up with this empire thing

#outer rim posting #this is satire to be clear

(45 notes)

🖋 set-vere-red-string

people on here really need to learn how to use a readmore link. I don't want to have to scroll past your entire bail organa x reader fic to find posts about the man's politics

(3 notes)

👬 clone-posting-central

☄ venator-class-hyperfixation Follow

if I didn't want clones fraternizing with civilians then I simply would not clone the hottest man in the galaxy. rip to the kaminoans but i'm different

🌄 tatooine-sunsets Follow

hey bez not to kill the joke but. do you know what happened to kamino

☄ venator-class-hyperfixation Follow

what do you mean. what. what happened

🪙 keepingupwiththepapanoidas Follow

investing at twenty notes

☄ venator-class-hyperfixation Follow

DONT DO THIS TO ME I DIDJHNT KNOWKJ

#we are pretty good looking huh :)

(27.5k notes)

🙈 bytenebrousthiscantbehappening

🌌 hyperdrive-engaged Follow

look. i've worked in a shipyard for a long time. i've seen a lot of stuff. but what the KARK is this

Read more

🔎 identifying-starships-in-posts Follow

looks like a YT-1300 light freighter. older correllian model, highly prized but not super common. it does have some uhhh interesting mods

#i LOVE yt-1300s #too bad you have to be either rich or a chronic gambler to get one these days

(62 notes)

🖋 set-vere-red-string

🧑‍🎤 myastromechromance Follow

anyone else seen this recording of palaptine tripping over his own robes yet

🏵 rebel-scum Follow

omf no that's hilarious

📕 hero-with-a-lot-of-fears Follow

old prune had it coming

#q

(16.5k notes)

[knightobreath]

Ok I gotta know

What’s your thoughts on that one anon (🐝)’s takes

context 1 and context 2

ohohohohhohohoohohohoh. ohohohoh. Well. Basically they're wrong about what headcanons ARE and how they work as a fan created thing. They also definitely need to examine why they feel the way they do about headcanoning characters as having marginalized identities. I wrote a whole essay on trans headcanons specifically under a similar ask and what I said can be easily applied to other aspects of headcanoning characters as minorities (i actually got a lot of the ideology for that essay from discussions of "blackwashing" in fandom)

some other things on what they said (warning: LONG)

My major issues with their thoughts on headcanons can be summed up with the essay i linked. im not going to be going into that stuff as deeply again because we would be here all day, so the rest is just specifics

"but i really hate it when people change pronouns of characters (IVE SEEN PEOPLE USE SHE/HER WHEN REFERING TO SILVER SPOON. LET THE MAN BE A MAN IF HE WANTS TO BE A MAN.)"

Silver Spoon, and other characters for that matter, are quite frankly not real and do not have actual desires or feelings that you can hurt. Also see my essay on trans headcanons.

"but what makes me the most furious is... people making characters autistic. nothing against autism, i understand that, but do you really need to make paper, fan, silver spoon, pen, etc. autistic just because they have specific interests or act... idk, just the way they act?! its just. it doesnt make sense to me."

Bee needs to examine why they feel the way they do about autistic headcanons. A majority of the times characters are being headcanoned as autistic, they're being headcanoned as that be actual neurodivergent people who seem themselves or their autistic friends in these characters or traits.

There are certainly some issues with certain aspects of autistic (or any other disability) headcanons, like infantilization, but Bee's issue seems to be the fact that there are a lot of characters being headcanoned. Which is just not a problem.

"hc's that dont affect story are fine, but ones that completely flip the story or ignore anything confirmed by the employees."

Headcanons are personal thoughts on the story and do not have any bearing on the story or how you interpret the characters. They are a fan creation like fanart or fanfiction.

"EX: "i headcanon that mic and knife are in a relationship!" that completely ignores the fact that some of the pride month art shows that knife is gay. Cakebrunch (official II storyboarder) confirmed that soap and mic are in a relationship."

Cakebrunch is not a writer and does not have any bearing on the written canon of the characters. Just because he works on the show does not mean his headcanons have any bearing on the canon.

"make as many autistic characters you want, yeah! its great to support autism! but you dont have to make every character autistic, okay? (directed towards people that hc lots of characters as autistic)"

Again, the people who are doing this are mostly autistic or otherwise neurodivergent. And they aren't "making" the characters autistic, they're depicting them as such. No harm in that.

Now for the ships ask.

This is less of my domain, as I'm not really a shipper and don't know much about romance and relationship dynamics but I will try.

Also like nothing against people who don't like shipping as a whole, I totally get it. I was in your boat before.

"i absolutely HATE osc ships. half of them are either "oh these characters dislike each other/disliked each other at one point" and the other half is "these two friends should date because theyre friends.""

and that leaves..... characters who haven't interacted?

honestly, if this was between real people that would be really disrespectful.

Except they're not, so it's completely fine. I have a feeling Bee was in an RPF heavy fandom before this one, this and the previous take about pronouns are common discourse points in those.

EX: Fantube. yeah, they tried to raise shimmer together and built bot, but platonic parents exist and CAN THEY JUST BE FRIENDS?! PLEASE?

Like headcanons, ships have no bearing on the canon and in canon they are just friends.

EX: Nickloon. ok, nickels trying to make up for being rude to balloon all throughout season two. but really? they dont have to date just because theyre friends, yknow. imagine someone saying "oh you and your best friend who you only platonicallly love- you should date!" to you. that'd honestly be rude.

They're not real so they can't experience this. Problem solved.

yeah, some ships are confirmed but thats different. EX: Knickle. offical II storyboarder Cakebrunch CONFIRMED theyre in a relationship. thats an official employee of the series saying that a ship is real. not some random person on TikTok saying that TennisGolf is canon because TB is GB's closest ally.

Again with citing Cakebrunch's fan stuff as canon. Interesting how they cited a storyboarder's fan works twice but failed to mention Balloon being arospec as said by a show creator in the nickloon section. While I have my thoughts on word-of-god confirmation, which I will not be getting into here, it is far more canon than any fanwork.

A lot of the rest of this is just confusion about why people ship things. This is different for each ship and each shipper, and if you're ever confused about where a ship came from you can just ask the shipper. There's usually a reason (and depending on who you ask, a whole essay) as to why a ship came about or how it would work. Sometimes though it is just for fun or comedy, and that's not really a bad thing. We're here to enjoy ourselves, after all.

One last thing though,

and dont get me started on those ships that throw certain characters in canon ships (looking at you, metallic salad/metallic salad + mephone shippers.) because like. why? certain characters have established relationships with others, and your just like "ohh well those two are in a relationship, but mic and knife are a cute ship so how about mic + knife + pickle? makes sense!" like. please.

I don't know much on dynamics and specifics (see: not much of a shipper) but from what I have seen of multiships and polyships, all the dynamics and how the characters would all work together is very much thought about.

Also knickle isn't canon and the people shipping knife x mic x pickle are also aware knickle isn't canon. Nobody is thinking of it like that.

Anyways, time for the conclusion.

Bee anon is fundamentally wrong about how fandom works. Headcanons and ships hold no baring on the canon or your interpretation of the canon. Fandom is a place where canon is transformed in fan works for the fan's enjoyment, it is not a place where canon is determined or changed. You can interpret a work however you please, you can even divorce it from fan works entirely if you wish. Bee also has some things they need to think about in regards to why they feel the way they do about queer and autistic headcanons.

Thanks for reading.