#like. i do not think she was a very good character in tlj i think she had a few moments that could have expanded into something better for h

[tranakin-skywalker]

I'm pretty sure I've admitted it on here before, but I actually do really love The Last Jedi. I think it's a really good movie! Well made, well acted, beautifully shot, the characters and their development is compelling. I enjoy it!

I do not, however, think it's a very good Star Wars movie.

[dashiellqvverty]

okay last thing. maybe. but its so fucking wild how much the direction of the sequel trilogy was dictated by like. the studio catering to the whims of the most vocal and obnoxious sect of the fanbase. like people thought tfa was too similar to previous films and just nostalgia-bait or whatever so disney/lucasfilm brought in a new guy to do the next one. and then those same people hated THAT one even more and missed the nostalgia-bait so they tried to bring on a NEW guy but then they booted that guy and just went back to the first guy!!!! like idk if jj abrams having a plan at the beginning of the trilogy wouldve solved this because maybe they still wouldve scrapped it but im just like. this is not how you make movies. like goddamn people hated the prequels but they still let george lucas make them!!

[artist-issues]

To Re-Write Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Here's a peek into my storytelling process, and what I think the third movie of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy should've looked like. You know me. Everything starts with the Main Point. (I'm not going to talk about what's bad about Rise of Skywalker in this post, it'll be long enough already.)

The Main Point: "Where there is love, there is hope."

Essentially, the main message of Star Wars is "Faith Triumphs Over Fear." Our main message supports that, because it's hard to keep the faith when you're alone, or feel alone. But when you have friends, or loved ones to fight for, keeping the faith is easier, and gives you something other than fear to focus on.

So. I'm going to structure this like "Where a Character Was at the end of TLJ --> Where They Need to Be by the End of EP 9."

Most of these characters don't need any more development. They learned a core lesson at the end of TLJ: now they just need to hang on and put it into practice no matter what plot points test them. Stick the landing. We already had their "Proposal, Argument—" now we need their "—Conclusion."

The only exception to this is Kylo Ren. He still needs development. You'll see:

Rey

It's Not About Who I Am; It's About Doing the Good I Can Do --> Tempted to Make a Selfish-Insecure-Identity-Based Decision; Chooses to Do the Self-Sacrificial, Good Thing Instead.

This means Rey needs to have a goal she's trying to accomplish, but this time there's not really a "and then I'll know who I am" element in it for her. Like in TLJ, she was going to find Luke for the greater good, but it was also, on a personal level, because:

But this time, after TLJ, she needs to start out on a mission that doesn't have anything in it for her besides the greater good... to show that she's grown in the right direction, she's not thinking so much about who she is and what she needs, anymore.

Then, on that mission, during that adventure, that character growth can be tested by having the opportunity to get sidetracked by something that could be self-validating.

I wouldn't make it be something about her parents again—we've exhausted that topic by the end of TLJ. But I'd make it something that has to do with being "The Last Jedi, the Heiress to the Light Side of the Force." I'd set the movie up with people telling her that, eventually, Rey will grow to be the legend Luke Skywalker was.

Maybe in the time between TLJ and this movie, the Resistance have run enough rescue missions of refugees or people oppressed by the First Order to pick up a bunch of kids or very young recruits. And those kids have heard of or seen Rey in action by now. Maybe Broom Boy is even one of them. And there are scenes of kids being in awe of Rey, or one of them even says, "after you beat the First Order, will you train me, Master Jedi?" or Maz herself makes a sage comment like, "Look how the Light has grown in you. The Galaxy needed that light...and the Force answered with you, like Luke Skywalker before you." Or during a fun opening-rescue mission, there's a scene where all of the people Rey is helping look up to her and explain who she is to one another in front of her.

Scenes providing her with an image of herself, as the future trainer of the Jedi Order, "when all this is over." Something that she could be tempted to find her identity in.

But then during the course of her mission, she has the opportunity to do one of these things

Gain Amazing New Jedi Knowledge

Kill Kylo Ren and Gain Renown as a Hero

Sacrifice Some Measure of the Power She Has Gained in the Force

And if she chooses the thing that will make her seem more like the Heroic Heiress of the Heroes, that would derail her from her mission and show that she's still thinking about herself—but if she chooses to just do the self-sacrificial, kind thing in the moment, it would help her mission. Yet, it should make her future as someone of fame and importance in the Force uncertain—so that option is also self-sacrificial. Thats the choice she has to make.

And when she makes the right one, we see, not that she got to Be Somebody and vanquished her fear of "dying a nobody" from the first time we met her—

—but that she's not even afraid of that anymore. It's okay to "die a nobody," if everyone else is better off. Because that was a self-focused fear, anyway, and it no longer has power over her. (For lots of reasons—one of which being she now has friends.) Character growth. Star Wars.

Finn

Good Can Win if We Focus on Saving Loved Ones Instead of Destroying Hated Ones --> Tempted to Get Revenge, But Sacrifices Revenge to Save Someone Else he Loves

This means Finn is focused on getting something/keeping something that will provide aid/protect the people he has come to love. Most of his screen-time can be focused on this, to build on showing how far he's come. He should have multiple opportunities to run away, whether it be from First Order troops attacking a Resistance base, or from the scene of a conflict when a rescue mission goes sideways—but instead he keeps staying in dangerous situations to help loved ones.

My favorite scenario to place him in, for this, is in a covert-ops mission where he's infiltrating First Order stormtroopers. He already knows the system, but we've only seen him exploit that knowledge when it's to save his own skin/cause hurt to the people who abused him in the First Order. He doesn't like to be around First Order troops because he hates them/he's afraid of them. But in Episode 9, after TLJ, I'd be showing Finn, choosing to stay where he's surrounded (even if unknown) by people who could uncover his true identity and kill him at any moment—and doing it because it protects the Resistance, in some way. I'd also broaden that focus—he's specifically doing it because it helps the larger cause, not necessarily because his actions will directly save anyone he loves, like Rose or Poe or Rey.

But—at some point in this movie, someone he's attached to dies. I think the most obvious choice is Rose, but she was the one who taught him about avoiding hate and saving loved ones. Revenge for Rose would be far from what Rose would want, so it wouldn't tempt him. So instead I think it should be either a new character that he spends most of the first act of Ep. 9 bonding with believably—or it should be Poe.

Poe, or a stormtrooper he really likes who has just come around to leaving the First Order when she is brutally killed. (I do think Poe, or someone we've seen him "grow up" with throughout the first two films, should be the one to die because otherwise it wouldn't be as tempting for Finn to get revenge, at this point in his arc.)

Then Finn pursues revenge, near the climax of the film. But at the last second, a-la-Luke-tossing-away-his-lightsaber, Finn gives up the opportunity for that revenge and does something else. Something useful, that saves Resistance lives, but causes the person he was about to exact revenge upon to escape.

That's how we see that Finn has come full circle—not only is he willing to stay when things get frightening and hard, and not only is he willing to fight for people he loves...but he's willing to act out of that love, not hate, because of what he's learned.

Poe

A Leader Sacrifices for the Greater Good of Others, Not For His Own Pride  --> Tempted to Make a Hero's Stand; Gives Someone Else the Opportunity Instead

This one is tricky because it's hard to make a scenario where a leader makes a choice that is exciting to watch...when the choice is "don't make a heroic last stand."

It's tricky. It's not impossible. (Rian Johnson did not see anyone up for failure. The TROS storytellers just refused to problem-solve when it got hard. Thats all I'll say about TROS.)

Basically, this means that Poe needs to start the film out at the head of the Resistance. He's still going on missions, but his role in those missions is coordination. One team gets to be the distraction—another team saves the day. Then when both teams are done with their missions, and it looks like they'll give their lives for those missions because there's no way out, in drops Poe. He's been coordinating everything; he's just the getaway car driver.

Then there's fun banter scenes where he reports back to Leia, she's critiquing some of the messy parts of the plan but ultimately proud of him, they bounce ideas off each other, and it's clear it still rubs him the wrong way not to be on the frontlines, but he's enjoying parts of the new challenge of leadership anyway. And they're closer than ever.

Eventually, however, Leia is captured, just before the climax of the film. Like Finn, Poe drops everything the Resistance has been working toward and is intent on saving her, and he's taking a very active role in that. But then, due to her own reminder, he chooses to abandon rescuing her at a pivotal moment to do something that will ultimately turn the tide in the Resistance's favor during the climax. He lets Leia make the sacrifice, and he himself is making the sacrifice of getting to save her and have her back, for the greater good. It's a harder path, but it's one she was preparing him for this whole trilogy.

All of this is if Poe doesn't die to further Finn's arc.

Kylo Ren

It's Better to Destroy the Past in Conquest Than Face My Failures --> I Was Wrong

Biggest one.

Kylo Ren is on the Dark Side because he believed that he was destined to be a monster, nobody would keep loving him if that was his destiny, and leaning into that destiny would help him escape the hurt that nobody-loving-the-"destined"-him caused.

I'm not going to elaborate on that, it's as plain as the nose on his face if you watch the movies and listen to what his family members say about him and what he says about himself. That's why he embraced the Dark Side.

But Rey, Chewie, and Leia are still alive, and all three of them can claim to know the "real him," and try to convince him that he was wrong—he was never destined to be a monster, and they do love and believe in the real him, no matter what he's done.

However, he isn't likely to believe them. He's least likely to believe Leia—she sent him away before he'd done anything wrong, and he has now done many things wrong that are singularly hurtful to her. He's second-least likely to believe Chewie, because he killed Chewie's best friend and Chewie shot him (and also, it's not compelling for the audience for Kylo Ren's mind to be changed by a character that doesn't speak English or emote with human facial expressions.)

He's most likely to believe Rey. Because 1) she did not kill him even after he chose to be a monster all over again, and she could've done what Luke almost did and prevented more monstrous deeds by killing him while he was unconscious. And 2) on a deeper level, she never knew "Ben Solo." She only ever knew the monster, and yet she's still choosing to tell him that he's not stuck as a monster.

So. The movie should start with Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader, doing his utmost to gain power, crush the Resistance, and wipe out any reference to the New Republic or the Jedi. But the key difference is that he's not singlemindedly focused on Rey and Leia and killing them anymore. That's not because he's grown from his "I want every gun to fire on my Uncle" obsessive flaw. It's because he finished TLJ by being closer to regretting his decisions than ever before. In his subconscious, he's afraid of encountering Rey or Leia directly ever again, because now he knows how weak his own resolve is, at this point. He'd rather avoid a direct fight unless he knows he can withstand "the pull to the Light." (He's not admitting any of that to himself.)

So he starts the movie on a mission. But now we enter our bad guys.

Hux.

Hux has only ever existed in these movies to be a counterpoint to Kylo Ren. Where Kylo Ren is explosive, emotionally led, and tangles his personal interests up in the interests of the First Order—Hux is calculating, a strategist, and dedicated to the First Order's cause.

He's at his most passionate when giving speeches about the First Order's might, or when that might is being mocked, or when it is being misused. And he has always hated Kylo Ren. In the script for the Force Awakens, in Hux's introductory scene, it literally says "Hux hates Kylo Ren." That's what he's there for. To be everything to the First Order that Kylo Ren is missing—dedication to the cause, and finding his own sense of pride in that cause—and to hate Kylo Ren. So. When Kylo Ren gets to be Supreme Leader, and his personal issues are jeopardizing the whole First Order? Hux is going to put a stop to that. He doesn't have the Force. But he has control over his strategic mind, and he knows that Kylo Ren's weakness is his emotions.

So, Hux orchestrates some kind of scenario where they learn Rey's location, or next-known location. She's going after some important tech or artifact that could turn the tide of the war. Hux purposefully pokes at Kylo Ren's ego, and maybe faintly suggests that Ren is avoiding a confrontation with the girl who beat him twice and "murdered the Supreme Leader," until Kylo Ren flies off determined to get to the artifact or tech Rey is after first—and prove he's willing to kill her in the process. To himself, and the First Order.

Then Hux orchestrates an Order-66-style assassination attempt on the Supreme Leader with a group of loyal troopers. It should be in a starship flight over the planet Rey is on—Kylo Ren wouldn't believably be overcome in any other scenario. And he takes out almost all of his would-be traitor assassins during the attempt, anyway. But his ship does crash, and Hux takes the mantle of Supreme Leader, and our other heroes spend most of their time dealing with this rabid strategist and his war plans.

Meanwhile, Rey finds Kylo Ren who is barely alive and has to do something to save him. That something should, like I said above, cost Rey something. She should lose a particular Force-ability, or be permanently disabled in some (easily-hidden) way as a result of healing him—or she should lose an artifact, or lose something that would've boosted her identity as Savior of the Galaxy down the road.

But I wouldn't let Kylo Ren figure any of that out right away. For tension, I'd have him remain unconscious for the entirety of Rey saving his life and sacrificing something to do it. Then I'd have her need to hide him, then leave the scene, because she's still on a mission, and Hux has sent the Knights of Ren on the same mission. Then later, Kylo Ren can come to, catch up with her, and they can come to an agreement on looking for the thing they came for together, fighting the Knights of Ren along the way—even if they both know that this alliance will only last until they find the thing they each came to this planet for.

Kylo Ren has closed himself off to any Force bond with Rey. He's stubbornly insisting that he's using her—she's a means to an end. She's quietly certain that he'll come around, but she's not pushing it this time. She'll do what she has to do when they reach the end of their mission, but she's not worried about it. And she hasn't told him, or is hiding from him, the fact that she saved his life again. Because she knows, now, that he's not ready to hear any pleading or reasoning about coming to the Light. He has to get there on his own, and she can't force him (get it?)

They have lots of tense conversation and interesting team-up moments and almost-friendship, almost-betraying each other moments the whole time. Like they're in the Hunger Games in an alliance. Until eventually, the First Order's forces are converging on them (knowing both are alive) and Leia arrives—apparently to rescue Rey—and Kylo Ren, determined by this time not to let Rey go in any sense again, especially not to let her get to the end of her mission first, tries to board the Millenium Falcon and stop her. But it was a trap. Leia allows Rey to take a small craft to the end of her mission, while she and Kylo Ren face off. Leia won't let her son get in Rey's way if he's determined to stay on the Dark Side—and she certainly won't let him get the tech/artifact that might restore him to being the Supreme Leader.

(This whole standoff-stalemate-Leia trapping Kylo Ren in a ship with herself can be what Poe initially wants to save her from, too.)

Basically, at this point, whipping out her knowledge of Rey saving his life and pointing out that Rey believes in Ben Solo even after never having met him, Leia changes Kylo Ren's mind about all of it. If not for Rey and what Rey has shown him with her patience and steady faith, Leia wouldn't have been able to do this. But it works, and Kylo Ren leaves the Millenium Falcon as Ben Solo, finally, and he's determined to help Rey, who is racing toward the artifact/tech/final battle.

This is the bare bones. I'd add in or decide between a lot more elements—what is Hux's plan to wipe out the Resistance, what is the thing Rey/Kylo Ren are after, how does infiltrating Stormtroopers help the Resisrance in stopping whatever Hux is doing, does Finn have the Force, what're Chewie and the droids doing during all this, does Leia die at any point during her attempt to change Kylo Ren back, and is the final battle between Rey/Ben and the Knights of Ren? Or just one Knight of Ren who became the leader when they decided to turn on Kylo Ren and work with Hux? Or is the final battle against Hux and his forces?

I'd answer all those questions and try to do it in a way that interconnects Finn, Poe, Rey, and Rose's storylines. But this is just the bare bones of it all.

The conclusion is the tricky part. I don't think killing Kylo Ren works, even if he's redeemed. Not only because he's the last of the Skywalker/Solos. But because killing him makes Leia, Han, and Luke's hope for him feel kind of hollow. Especially if Leia dies to bring it about, which Han did already. "Our little Ben got to come back to the good side...for the last ten minutes of his life! Yaaay we always knew he could do it" NOPE. That's silly. And also, it's bad for his arc. He's a character that has been running from his bad decisions, thinking that stacking more and more on top of them will satisfy him. So what he needs is not a heroic-death-shaped back door out of the consequences of those bad decisions. He needs to face them.

And I also think, depriving Rey, a character who always wanted to stop being alone, of an organic if difficult relationship with someone who understands her, is a dissatisfying conclusion for the main character.

It would be best to have him live. And then he needs some difficult, but ultimately hopeful road ahead to mending his mistakes. Obviously the whole galaxy would be baying for his blood as justice, if they knew that the former Supreme Leader lived. So he probably needs to assume a new identity, just to avoid being executed for his crimes. (I don't think any Resistance member who knew Leia would be on board with executing Kylo Ren, once the war is over and they have to make that decision outside the heat of battle.)

Then he needs to do something that helps repair the wrongs he's done...but it should be something that costs him, personally. If he's come to value Rey as the only person left in the galaxy he cares about, I'd actually end the movie separating him from Rey. Not forever—because that would be as unsatisfying as killing him—but for the foreseeable future. Then I'd send him on a pilgrimage of some sort that will undo some things he's done. Obviously he can't bring back the lives he's taken. But, maybe whatever cataclysmic artifact or thing they were after did some damage across the galaxy during the climax—and Ben Solo can figure out how to reverse that damage, or repair the thing, but it'll be a long, hard road.

I might send Chewbacca with him. But that's it. It's basically atonement-exile, in disguise. In the meantime, Rey wouldn't be alone because she'd be with Finn and Poe (if he lives) and all her Resistance friends. And they'd start finding homes for the refugees from the war. I wouldn't directly end on Rey starting a Jedi school—not by herself. Only if she's doing it with Finn, or with Finn and Leia if Leia lives. Because again, we're going for "it ain't all about you and who you are, Rey."

That's what I'd do. Feel free to use this as a template or a springboard for your own ideas, (and hey send them to me if you do) because basically anything would be better than what we got with TROS. But this is just what I would do, bare framework.

[david-talks-sw]

Luke Skywalker in 'The Last Jedi' (2/2)

OK, so in Part 1/2 of this post, we explored why Luke's TLJ characterization isn't really inconsistent with what had previously been established in Star Wars lore. It tracks. Dare I say: it works.

And yet... something still feels off, right?

Well, the reason for this is because Luke's character development is impacted by the film's structure, which in turn is impacted by - of all things - Poe's lack of development in Episode VII! Just hear me out!

The intention: Making the audience feel the same emotions as the protagonist, deuteragonists and antagonist.

This is what most movies strive for. Unless the film is trying to go for some dramatic irony, you want your audience to be on the same page with your protagonist, emotionally-speaking.

And y'know what? Rian Johnson does this very well.

Overall, he displays a very good grasp of making us, the audience, feel the same emotions as a film’s protagonist (generally, the main character, whose POV we follow) or deuteragonist (the ‘secondary main character’).

Rey was expecting to meet the Luke from the Original Trilogy, the Luke from Legends... and instead was disappointed to meet an old jaded hermit. Just like many of the fans were.

Finn is fooled by DJ, mistaking him for an archetypal "misfit with a heart of gold". Just like the fans were.

Poe is increasingly frustrated with Holdo, just like we were.

Call it "meta", call it "subversive", the bottom line is that some of the narrative choices that a lot of fans criticize the film for are intentionally placed there to put you in the same mental state as the characters you're following, even during the film's twists.

But as a result, if a character isn’t the protagonist (Rey), or the deuteragonists (Poe or Finn), or even the antagonist (Kylo)... they'll barely get any development.

They might get one or two scenes for themselves tops, but overall secondary characters like Luke, or Holdo, or DJ will mostly be shown through the filter of Rey or Poe’s or Finn's POV.

The Problem: Luke isn't a protagonist or deuteragonist, so he isn't developed to the audience's satisfaction.

Don't get me wrong: Luke has the second-most screen time in the whole film, but that's because Rey is the one with the most screen time, and he's primarily a character in her storyline.

To be fair, he does have his own subplot, he's the spiritual center of the whole film. But concretely, he’s one step above support characters like Holdo, Leia, Rose and DJ. We're barely shown his own POV and mainly view him through Rey's lens.

Like, there's a reason why in this scene...

... we don't see what Luke witnessed in Ben’s mind, simply his reaction to it: Rey didn’t see it either.

All three "Rashomon" flashbacks are what Rey is picturing in her mind when she’s being told three different versions of the story. She doesn't see what Luke witnessed, so we don't see it either.

And you know what? On paper... this is also not really an issue. It's actually quite standard. I mean, Yoda doesn't get much backstory or an arc in Empire Strikes Back. He's just the mentor figure, and we see him through Luke's POV.

There's no arguing that Luke in TLJ receives much more development than Yoda does in ESB.

But y’know what?

Yoda was also never the protagonist of a whole other trilogy.

So if you're gonna tell an audience that "the protagonist of the previous trilogy strayed from the path and is now a completely different person" - even if they eventually make their way back with a character arc - I don’t think it’s out of order for audience members to expect more development than a regular mentor archetype.

Context is expected, and when it isn't delivered, that'll kill the suspension of disbelief, for many fans. They're not just disappointed in Luke like Rey is, they're not immersed in the movie anymore.

So how do you go for what Rian was going while also trying to keep about half the fans from jumping ship?

The Solution (?) Delving deeper into Luke.

So let’s suppose Luke was treated like a deuteragonist. Suppose we see his own POV more, rather than just seeing him through Rey’s eyes. Would that help? And what would that look like?

Firstly, we keep that deleted scene of him mourning Han’s loss.

Or we show it like in the comic adaptation of TLJ, with Luke getting angry at his decision to cut himself off from the Force, unintentionally levitating objects until Chewie consoles him.

WHAT IT DOES: Either version humanizes Luke, shows who he is beneath the jaded mask he's putting on, gives audience a chance to mourn Han with him.

We keep that deleted scene of him explaining to Rey why he thinks the Jedi were flawed, also known as the “3rd lesson scene”.

WHAT IT DOES: Spells out Luke's rationalization that the Jedi Order needs to end. Marks the beginning of Luke's wake up call.

We add one or two additional short flashbacks of Ben gradually becoming darker and unhinged. Maybe he harms one of his fellow students in a fit of rage.

WHAT IT DOES: Clarifies that Ben was going through a dark period and that's why Luke went to confront him in his hut. He didn't just saunter into Ben's hut, sabers blazing.

Maybe halfway through the film, we see Luke pack his bag as he prepares to rescue his friends with Rey, only to find her communicating with Kyloe.

After all, the novelization shows that, upon opening himself to the Force and sensing Leia, he immediately decides to get back in the game. So if that’s not just something Jason Fry added to embellish stuff, let’s see that.

WHAT IT DOES: Drives home the fact that Luke realizes his mistake. (Although, it might also take away from the subsequent scene with Yoda).

Finally, let’s actually see what Luke saw in Ben’s mind: him killing Lor San Tekka, killing Han, killing Leia, murdering Chewie and countless more innocents all with a smile on his face.

WHAT IT DOES: Provides context for Luke's extreme reaction.

Most of these things are already technically canon, the only difference is that it would be shown on screen. And if all these elements are added, then Luke’s reasons for staying away and his reaction in Ben’s hut are already more understandable.

So where’s the flaws in this solution?

Solution Flaw #1: Plot twist would be ruined.

Talking about this one:

Again, we're seeing Luke THROUGH Rey's POV, for the most part. Our reaction is - intentionally - the same reaction as Rey.

The whole point of the twist is that

we, with Rey, believe Kylo can be redeemed, because

we, like Rey, remember Luke redeemed Vader.

So when she realizes “oh shit, Luke was right, he’s too far gone”... we react that way too.

But if we had seen Ben’s turn as well, if we had seen how he was during his training, if we had seen what Luke’s saw in Ben’s mind, we would all collectively agree with Luke and think that Rey is making a mistake in trying to redeem Kylo.

So when Rey walks away from Luke, rather than hoping she succeeds, we’d just be waiting for her to inevitably fail. We'd be thinking:

"Rey, you moron, you're walking into a trap and Kylo isn't gonna turn!"

Emotionally-speaking, we would be detached from the protagonist.

Solution Flaw #2: Increase in the runtime at the cost of other scenes.

The Last Jedi is already the longest film in the franchise. Adding just three of the above-suggestions would increase that runtime, which wouldn’t work. So you’d need to take something out.

But Finn and Poe’s storylines are already stripped down to their bare bones as it is. Hell, so was the Rey/Luke storyline, for that matter.

Actually, wait... why do we have three storylines, in the first place?

After all, if we look at The Empire Strikes Back, they only have two storylines, right?

The protagonist, Luke, goes to Dagobah.

The deuteragonists, Han and Leia, evade the Empire.

Main plot & subplot. Great.

Wouldn't it be better to just have Poe and Finn do the Canto Bight storyline together? That would give us sme remaining time to focus on Luke’s past, right? Where’s the issue?

Well, Rian Johnson put it this way:

Bottom line, in The Force Awakens, Poe is a clear-cut character. Simple as that. He’s charismatic and fun, but there isn’t much room for him to grow.

A lot of people compare his character to Han, but there's an issue with that comparison (besides the obvious fact that Finn is Han and Poe is Leia)...

In ANH, Han has an arc. He's the philosophical antagonist of the film, he's only out for himself which conflicts with Luke's attempts to help others. Han goes from being a selfish irresponsible gun-slinger to taking responsibility and becoming a selfless rebel, a part of something bigger. Arc concluded.

(Hell, this very reason is why Harrison Ford didn’t wanna keep playing him and lobbied to kill him off.)

So in ESB, Leia is the one who has the arc. Han is just being himself. Leia is the one who must slowly come to terms with the fact that she does love him, despite him being a total nerf-herder. So she and Han bicker, there’s conflict there, but there’s also an underlying affection.

As such, when Poe doesn’t have an arc in TFA, and is already on great terms with Finn, then there’s no conflict if you put them together in a subplot.

And conflict is crucial, in storytelling. If it's absent, then the story becomes boring.

As a result, Rian Johnson had to create conflict and growth for Poe.

Which means that, now, a third storyline is thrown in the mix... and the pacing and development of the other two are affected by this. Some really good scenes need to be cut, some stuff needs to get shuffled around.

For example, remember this deleted scene, from further up?

In the commentary, Rian explained that the reason it wasn’t in the film is because it didn’t intercut well with the other two storylines. *Three and a half, if you wanna count Kylo's personal scenes.

As such, there’s no space to add more scenes to develop Luke's perspective.

And if Rian made more space, well, that wouldn't work either. Because while Luke is the spiritual core of the film... this isn't his movie. He's not the protagonist anymore. But he used to be, and if you show him too much (not as Rey's mentor figure, that is, but as a protagonist or deuteragonist), he'll take the spotlight off the new cast with the snap of a finger.

When Michael Arndt was working on the Sequels with George Lucas in 2012, he encountered this same issue:

“Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass. It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012. It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f*ck, Luke Skywalker's here. I want to see what he’s going to do’.” - Michael Arndt, Entertainment Weekly, 2015

And I'm guessing this is a problem that JJ had to deal with too, hence why Luke was pushed to the end of Episode VII: so as to give the new characters a chance to be developed a bit more, first.

“In a very general sense, the original idea for Episode VII started midway through what we now know as Episode VIII...” - Pablo Hidalgo, Twitter, 2016

There's finally the fact that, while most of those ideas can make Luke's fall more understandable... his story isn't about "how he fell".

It's about how he got back up. The whole point of the film is that even when you've reached your lowest point you can still inspire and be inspired by hope.

So while adding any of the above scenes would only reinforce what was already shown in the movie, be it explicit or subtextual... they wouldn't ADD anything to the theme of learning from failure and getting back in the saddle.

Do I care about Luke’s characterization in TLJ...?

In spite of what the length and intricacy of these two posts might indicate... I don’t, really 😅

Like, sure, I wish more had been done with the character, but Luke was never really my childhood hero, Obi-Wan was.

So Luke in TLJ isn’t a gaping wound in my chest. I didn't whine about it in 2017, nor did I shed tears of joy and said “he’s finally back” when we saw him in The Mandalorian, for example.

Like, it was an awesome scene, but in my mind Luke never left.

Also I’m the type of Star Wars fan who’ll tolerate any addition to the canon by virtue of it being new Star Wars content.

So even if that addition is something I didn’t enjoy during the viewing, I still focus on the positive and roll with it, I come up with a headcanon that'll make it work.

Because you get to do that, with a transmedia franchise!

If you don’t like how it went down in the movie? There's always a comic around the corner that'll retcon it and/or retroactively make it better... that's how it was for the Prequels.

But for the Sequels, it's difficult. There's a scarcity of transmedia content, when it comes to stuff set around the Sequels era.

I mean, can you think of any

Luke-centric work

that serves as a meaningful addendum to what's seen of him in the Sequels?

A novel, a comic issue and a distantly-relevant manga.

That's it.

(The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett are too soon after ROTJ to have any meaningful impact on Luke's journey in the Sequels. Some people see Luke's behavior in those shows as "the beginning of his failure", but I covered why I don't think this is really the case, here.)

Instead of just three items, how about a comic mini-series focusing on the year Luke spent training Leia, or on his adventures across the galaxy as he tries to rebuild the Jedi Order? Maybe he meets Cal Kestis, or Quinlan Vos? Maybe he needs to face against an Oppo Rancisis who was consumed by the darkness, post-Order 66?

Or better yet, how about a video game centered on Luke, in the style of Fallen Order or Jedi Academy?

Get Mark Hamill to motion cap it, he's done it before.

This would also allow the fans who grew up with the powerhouse that is Legends Grandmaster Luke Skywaker to have some fun!

Many fans wanted to see Luke in action, in TLJ, and instead got a pretend-samurai fight. Which is nice, powerful and symbolic, he goes out like a true Jedi, it makes the Force more than a superpower... but it's not a lightsaber duel. In a game, though? Players can go to town.

I dunno... any additional content would've smoothed the blow for many people who didn't like what was done with Luke in TLJ. Sure, you'd always have people who just hated the whole thing, but if transmedia content helped reduce the hate for the Prequels, it could've done the same with Luke.

I'm not sure why that route wasn't taken.

[shrinkthisviolet]

1, 7, 8, 9, 19, 21 for Star Wars for the ask game please?

1: the character everyone gets wrong

Luke Skywalker. Everyone writes him as naïve and happy-go-lucky, but like…no?? Even in ANH, he’s snarky and impatient, and he develops throughout the OT into a badass who suffers no fools. Yes, he’s kind and generous towards his loved ones, and he’s very friendly, there’s no doubt about that, but like?? Writing him as an innocent ball of sunshine who can do no harm is just wrong. Luke is kind, but he’s not naïve—he knows fully well what Vader has done and how evil he is, he just also knows, has felt, that there’s good deep down in Vader. He believes when no one else does because he knows he can get through to Vader and change his heart, and he’s right!!

7: what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Kylo Ren. The way some parts of fandom used to (probably still do, but I wouldn’t know) paint Han and Leia as abusive/awful parents and make Kylo the perpetual victim who was forced into every decision he made…as if he wasn’t like 23 when he destroyed(?) the Jedi Academy* and joined Snoke, as if every decision after that wasn’t his own decision—like, come on guys.

*I know there’s a comic that said apparently a lightning storm caused the fire that destroyed the Academy? But Wookieepedia said he’s the one who summoned the storm in the first place, so 🤷‍♀️ who knows. In any case, the distinction is irrelevant to my point

8: common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Anidala isn’t abusive, and I’m sick of people saying that.

“Oh but he choked her!!” Yes, that’s what happens when you fall to the Dark Side and your good traits are twisted/corrupted. You act in ways that are not like you! This is how the Dark Side works (despite what some Star Wars media would have you believe, the Dark Side corrupts, it’s not freeing. It’s an illusion of freedom, but it’s just a trap)

“Oh but Anakin forced her into it!” Nope! He confessed to her, and she turned him down initially, but she made the first move, and there’s no indication that she was forced into marriage.

You don’t have to like them, but saying they’re toxic/abusive is incorrect and I’m tired of seeing that take.

On that note, everyone attributes Vader’s salvation to Luke, and says he’s the person who always believed in Vader…but don’t forget that Padmé did first!! Padmé was the first one to always believe in Anakin, even after the worst had happened, because that’s how strong their love is! Because Anidala was true love!

9: worst part of canon

If not for the sequels, the Luke/Leia kiss would be here. I still hate that so much.

Taking the sequels into account though…the Rey/Kylo kiss. Absolutely awful. Putting aside the fact that I don’t like the ship, there isn’t really much development for this as a ship. Sure, there are some hints of chemistry here and there (mostly in TLJ with Rey slowly developing an interest in redeeming him), but they’re far outweighed by: Kylo kidnapping and torturing Rey, Rey trying to kill Kylo, Rey metaphorically closing the door on Kylo at the end of TLJ, and Rey killing Kylo in TROS and only undoing it because she felt Leia die.

Rey appears to have a change of heart about Kylo in TLJ, but that’s very clearly undone when he refuses to turn back to the Light Side (again, she metaphorically/telepathically slams the door on him)! And she literally kills him in TROS and only undoes it for his mom’s sake! And yet suddenly in the final scene she’s calling him “Ben” and putting her trust in him?? Nope. Not buying it. If I did ship this, I’d be very disappointed about how it was handled, because that’s just sad

19: you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like…

I'm intrigued by Vaderdala as a concept 😅 not in a genuine healthy relationship way, I think that bridge is burned post-ROTS, but I find the idea of them in a Padmé Lives AU very intriguing. Vader ofc would still harbor feelings for Padmé, and deep down, she would too (she does canonically believe in his goodness), but her loyalty would be first and foremost to the Rebellion and her kids…but also those feelings keep drawing her back to Vaderkin, because a not-so-small part of her wants to redeem him and get her husband back. And he, ofc, wants her by his side as his Empress. It’s just fascinating to me imo

21: part of canon you think is overhyped

ROTS. Listen, listen, I love it too, okay? I love all 3 of the prequels in their own ways. But…even people who hate the prequels claim ROTS is “the good one”, and I just…don’t get it? What exactly makes ROTS sooo much better than the other two? It’s not like ROTS is a perfect movie by any means, it has flaws too, just like TPM and AOTC do. It even has a similar tone. People seem to love it because it’s the moment of Anakin’s descent into Vader, and believe me, I love it too, but…some people love it disingenuously, I feel. One of its big flaws is the lack of Padmé scenes in it, with them all being deleted, so the fact that it’s the most loved of the prequels despite having the least amount of Padmé in it is…weird, ngl

And yes, I know people have complained about those scenes being deleted, this is a common complaint, but that doesn’t seem to have dulled the general consensus that this movie is (one of) The Best Ever.

(On that note though, if you haven’t read the ROTS novelization, please do, it’s absolutely amazing and tbh I’m enjoying it more than the movies, simply because it has more space to expand on certain characters and what they’re thinking, and thus expand on certain scenes. AND it adds the Padmé deleted scenes back!!)

choose violence ask game!

[laughhardrunfastbekindsblog]

Shortly after the third episode of Acolyte dropped, a friend (who wasn't watching the show) said she probably wouldn't bother watching it because her brother told her the show was ruining everything that's been established about the Force and that it's implying the Jedi are wrong/evil.

I had gotten wind of some complaints like this being found on social media, but the fact that I was hearing this take first-hand from someone I know well kinda floored me.

Just today I came across a thoughtful discussion on Reddit about how both TLJ and Acolyte explore the idea of perspective and presenting opposing viewpoints (I would submit that Bad Batch does an exceptional job with this as well, even if it's not one of the main aims of the show), and this made me want to put some thoughts down on virtual "paper."

SPECIFIC ACOLYTE SPOILERS BELOW.

1) It seems some people somehow can't accept the heroes actually making mistakes and being called out on it in the story. Like, there's no room for gray areas and nuance. (This trend became especially apparent to me after TLJ first released.)

For example, I love the Jedi and think their basic beliefs, including their adherence to the Light Side, are absolutely correct. I also see how flawed the Jedi Order itself became by the time of the prequels, and also know that the Jedi themselves are flawed (of course they are!). Most of the Jedi are trying to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean they won't make mistakes. And it's painful sometimes to watch them make mistakes, but their intentions are still good and ultimately they are the heroes to root for, especially when they're up against the sheer selfishness and power-hungry machinations of the Sith in particular.

Somehow, though, Luke igniting his lightsaber in a desperate moment of weakness means Luke's character is absolutely ruined, no chance for redemption. It doesn't matter that it was a fleeting thought and Luke didn't actually act on it, just the thought is enough to condemn not only him but also the creators for daring to make Luke Skywalker anything less than a flawless hero.

Somehow, The Acolyte presenting a group of people who view/describe the Force differently than the Jedi do, and then spending equal time showing their perspective/justifications/flaws just as much as they show the Jedi's perspective/justifications/flaws, means the show is ruining the Force and obviously hates the Jedi.

It ends up that some of the discussion around who was right/wrong, that the Jedi should/shouldn't have done what they did, and that the coven should/shouldn't have done what they did tends to become inflammatory because some people won't accept that most of the characters are flawed and make mistakes and are just trying to do the best they can with the knowledge they have. (I say "most" characters, because Qimir is just straight up evil and there's no debate about that. He killed Jecki and referred to her as "it." Enough said.)

2) Another thing to consider is that, on the macro level, the stories themselves still are VERY much about good vs evil. No matter how much backstory is given to the "evil" characters or how sympathetically they are portrayed, at the end of the day very few of us root for the Sith or Imperial types to actually be in charge of the galaxy, we still want Jedi/Light Side Force users and Republics and independent systems with some semblance of democratic governments to win out. It's at the micro level that individual characters - both the good guys and the bad guys - are portrayed with more nuance to where the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys are granted some level of humanity to where we might see parts of ourselves portrayed in them (even if it's as simple as "there, but for the grace of God, go I"). Yet somehow some fans seem to take issue with this depiction of the heroes/villains and conflate it to mean the overall story somehow isn't ultimately about good vs evil. Even for stories like Acolyte that I consider to be villain origin stories, I don't think most of the audience WANTED Osha to kill Sol or join Qimir; regardless of why she did it, we still are guided to recognize that giving in to hatred and revenge is not a "good" thing. This show doesn't paint the Jedi Order as the "bad guys." It does thoughtfully depict both sides of the conflict as having both flaws and virtues (well... everyone except Qimir. He's just evil.) And it does depict the gradations of gray that come with making decisions with wide-spread ramifications that also involve other people with varying motives needing to make decisions as well.

3) Ironically, if a project doesn't depict a good guy as having notable flaws or a bad guy as having some semblance of sympathetic characteristics, we then get the accusations of characters being Mary Sues or one-dimensional or "flat." So there's just no way to win here.

[stonegoldsxcrxt]

Okay so I honestly haven’t been active on tumblr in forever. But if I’m ever thinking of star wars, I like to take a peek at your blog because I feel like you are one of the few who loves Luke as much as I do. But what I want rn is to give my two cents on this whole acolyte thing. And I hope you don’t think I am trying to come at/attack you or anything of the sort. This is just my (somewhat complicated?) take on things. Sorry if this gets super long. I have many thoughts. And I hope I don’t confuse at all while trying to explain! Unfortunately, I’m not very eloquent lol. Anyway:

Personally? I’m kinda intrigued by the Osha/Qimir dynamic. And this is coming from someone who honestly severely disliked the sequels—especially kylo and reylo (but a lot of it was due to fandom bs as well). I mean, I’ll admit some of it is due to my own bias because this time around I’m glad both of the actors are hot and they are both absolutely acting their asses off. And maybe there hasn’t been enough for you in the show (I get it tbh, the episodes are short and there’s only so much you can do with 8 episodes and this is honestly a problem with D+ and a lot of streaming services now), but I can see what Leslye was aiming for with the dynamic. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is one of my fave movies so I definitely see the influence. But Headland did also point out that a lot of enemies to lovers is about one character going “I know there’s good in you!” or what the hell ever—and Osha didn’t do that. That’s something I can appreciate whereas in TLJ it seemed like Rey was all about freaking Kylo and was convinced there was still good in him even though the literal day before he had nearly killed both her and Finn.

I do disagree about there being no manipulation, though. Qimir IS being honest and vulnerable, but clearly he hopes to gain something with Osha from that. But whereas I didn’t buy any of it with Rey and Kylo, I can see how and why Osha might fall to the dark side. She is clearly conflicted about everything from her emotions to her very own identity. But Qimir is offering her a sense of clarity about that AND on her past. Osha loves and admires Sol deeply of course, but he has obviously been keeping something huge from her. And if it turns out he was majorly involved with whatever happened to her coven, it makes sense that Osha would then embrace whatever negative emotions that are brewing within her (even if Sol was slightly less involved the fact that he knew and never told her should rightfully make her angry). It will obviously destroy whatever faith she had left in the Jedi, but imo she might begin to question how it makes the Jedi any different from Qimir.

And now that I’ve explained that, I also wanted to say how I felt about some of the discourse. Fandom feuds are always annoying, but now that I’m essentially on the other side...? I’ve gotta say I am low-key offended and high-key pissed over it. I mean, if ppl don’t like Qimir or the relationship between him and Osha—fine. But I’ve seen some absolutely disgusting comments over this. Like someone on twitter (who ss a post of yours too) who was calling Leslye Headland’s lesbianism into question. Like idc if you don’t like the ship but there is literally no need for discussing her sexuality like that just because she likes a problematic ship you hate (which she literally created so idk what ppl expected anyways)!!! And then there are the “fans” (I use that term lightly) insulting Manny Jacinto’s looks (which is ridiculous cause the man is hot idgaf). And I honestly think that shit is hypocritical af since a lot of these ppl are fans who were rightfully upset at reylo/kylo stans for saying similar disgusting things about actual people.

I like quite a few villains in multiple fandoms, so to me it seems like the same ridiculous arguments. There’s nothing wrong with liking a fictional character who happens to be a villain. As long as no one’s trying to make excuses for their heinous actions (jokes are another thing) I don’t think it matters. It’s literally not that deep imo. And liking said problematic characters does not have anything to do with people’s real life morals. That’s just bullshit.

And again, it’s actually INCREDIBLY fucking hypocritical, ESPECIALLY coming from star wars fans who have been sexualizing villains like Darth Maul, Thrawn, and a young freaking Darth Vader for YEARS. But now it’s a problem with Qimir????? Not to mention the romanticization of other literal problematic ships like anidala or reylo. And I’ll be honest—as a Filipina????? I do feel like some of this is racially motivated because literally WHAT is the difference with Qimir and Osha/Qimir versus all of these other characters and ships?????? I think that’s what gets me heated is the hypocrisy of it all. And of course the fact that it’s all fictional anyway so I don’t know why it should fucking matter to some people if fans like a character or ship that they don’t.

Anyways...I think this is essentially all of my thoughts on the matter. Again, I hope I didn’t come across as rude or like I was attacking you. Like I said, it IS a bit complicated for me. Because as someone who hardly liked anything from the sequels, I was definitely cringing at the multiple mentions of reylo and kylo in Leslye’s recent interview. And yet....I see the vision.

hey!! so, there's a lot here and I do actually want to talk about all of it! I really appreciate you approaching this with nuance and being open to have a conversation. I'm gonna number my responses just so I know I covered everything I wanted to talk about and everything you mentioned.

One: I don't think there's anything wrong with being intrigued by a character dynamic like Osha and Qimir's, in fact I actually do find it very interesting from a psychological standpoint myself. I also don't think there's anything wrong with depicting a character dynamic like Osha and Qimir's, with one caveat, which is that you have to recognize it for what it is. I truly would LOVE star wars to approach it with the angle of "hey, this is how people can weaponize your own emotions against you, especially how a man may try (and even succeed) in manipulating a woman this way," and particularly what that looks like with the Force, because a LOT of Jedi and Sith principles are based around the acceptance (or aggravation!) of emotions. I think that's a totally interesting plot line that would actually be super fascinating to see. I also find it believable that Osha could, theoretically, be convinced by Qimir and turn (in fact I think your entire third paragraph is a very valid interpretation of what has happened so far). It's not that I don't think these are fascinating possibilities to explore. It's not that I don't think Osha joining the dark side is out of the question or even unreasonable, whatever the reason.

In fact, pre-interview, almost all of my criticism was pointed at the way the fandom immediately jumps to believing everything Qimir is saying without thinking critically about how he could be lying to Osha to get her to act the way that he wants her to. This comes from an intense place of frustration dealing with fandom in general who excuse the violent actions of men towards women (which is the reason why that one post doesn't actually even name Qimir or Osha, even though I did tag their names, since it applies to like a half dozen ships I can think of off the top of my head). In fact, I praised the writing of the acolyte in my breakdown post, assuming that Headland was purposefully creating all the cunning ways Qimir talks to Osha and all the tactics he appears to be using to manipulate her, and that this would be plot relevant. Whether Osha realized she was being manipulated and snapped out of it, or whether she never realized it, and fell to the dark side, and what that would mean for her, etc.

However, post-interview, things are different. No more am I simply dealing with a fandom that is willfully misinterpreting a toxic relationship as romantic, I am now dealing with the showrunner herself saying lots of things that disturb me. I can give her credit for not pulling the "there's good in him" card, but that's about as good as I can do. Headland may say that she does not intend the relationship to be manipulative, that she intends for Osha and Qimir to be equals, but if what she has presented to us onscreen does not read that way, then she has failed to accurately convey her message as the showrunner. You and I agree that Qimir is manipulating Osha, yet Headland says the opposite. I now have a showrunner for Star Wars, a massive franchise viewed by thousands, giving interviews saying that there is nothing wrong with this man's relationship with this young woman, but continuing to show the opposite. She can't have it both ways. The statement "Osha and Qimir are equals," is simply so far removed from the reality of what Headland has presented Qimir to be (a conniving man who is strong enough in the Force to eliminate a dozen Jedi at a time, and is so callus that he calls a girl an "it" after he's murdered her) that it's such an unbelievable statement I actually can't even believe people are buying it. I'm not saying that to be mean; what makes Qimir and Osha equals? Genuinely? That he cooks soup sometimes? That he disrobed in front of her? What about this relationship is equal?

Here's my bottom line when it comes to this discourse: I am sick of seeing young women getting treated like shit by men, and it getting romanticized as hot and desirable instead of what it is. I am sick of it whether the fandom does it, I am sick of it whether the showrunner does it, I am sick of it whether people in real life or in fiction do it, and I am allowed to feel that way.

Two: I won't be insulting Manny Jacinto in any capacity. He's doing a good job as an actor. I have acknowledged in past posts that he is obviously an attractive man.

If you think Qimir is hot, please, by all means, feel free to sexualize him in the manner that others sexualize Thrawn or Maul or anyone else. I'm an advocate of self insert fanfiction and of course (within reason), would find nothing wrong with that.

I am generally not a villain-lover, but there is nothing wrong with finding villains attractive or compelling! I haven't said there is. I have said that there's a problem within fandom and now literally within the media itself, with recognizing when a young woman is being mistreated by someone, sometimes because a lot of you are far more lenient on attractive men. The reylo fandom took this about twenty steps too far from 2015-2019 to the point where if you ask some of them, they still don't think Kylo even WAS the villain, and Headland is rapidly encouraging fans to take that angle with Qimir though I have given evidence to the contrary in spades.

There is a lot to be said about whether or not fiction affects reality. I believe it does, but I obviously do not believe that liking an evil character makes you evil. That being said, while not all fiction has a moral, all fiction has a theme, and you as the audience do take lessons from themes, whether you realize it or not; it sticks with you and may help you form your opinion on a similar set of circumstances you may come face-to-face with later. Fiction affects our feelings on a situation. A disturbing theme I'm seeing a LOT of in Star Wars lately is men being cruel to women in one way or another and the women finding it attractive and acceptable. Of course, depiction is not automatically endorsement... until we have now literally seen this type of relationship fully endorsed by Lucasfilm showrunners and directors twice in a row. Tweens and teenage girls *will* watch the sequel trilogy and the acolyte... what are they taking away from it? From what the director or showrunner has said about it? Honestly, this is much less about fandom to me now, and more about how official creators are treating these dynamics.

Three and finally and most important: I'm sorry that you've been seeing things like that being said about Headland, I think that's bizarre, rude, and uncalled for. I often do not go looking in fandom spaces anymore so I have not seen this, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. I generally do not trust Headland's creative input anymore, nor do I necessarily even like her, HOWEVER, I have not and will not make any such comment on her sexuality as it has nothing to do with any of this. I don't know which post of mine they screenshot, and I'd like more information actually, if they are using my post to say I think those things too, but regardless, I would not say this about her, or about anyone, and I don't condone it.

This is absolutely not racially motivated from me and I want to make that absolutely clear. I have been vehemently anti-reylo since the day I learned it existed, so I hope that you do not feel as though I am speaking out against the way that the Osha and Qimir storyline has been handled out of such a place, and I would never want anything to come across that way in any of my analysis or critiques. You will find I usually have less to say about anidala, seeing as the majority of the fandom does not depict Anakin as "doing nothing wrong" in that relationship, nor does the source material, so I feel I do not have to explain as much as I do with reylo and now Osha/Qimir. I want to make that absolutely clear that this type of relationship being presented in this type of way is a huge red flag for me regardless of the races of the characters involved. If you refer to the fandom at large, I don't want to invalidate your experiences, and don't know what other people are saying or what their reasons are. Unfortunately the acolyte fandom has been riddled with homophobia and racism since before the first episode even aired, and I want to make it clear that I think all of that is entirely unacceptable and that my critiques have nothing to do with either of those hateful ideologies.

[atopvisenyashill]

i think the problem with hotd is that people are expecting asoiaf levels of writing or early got levels of writing but they're just not built like that lol martin is a generational talent but f&b is not that good and some changes are needed

okay so-

f&b is bad

objectively yes. i think it has better world building than a lot of other fantasy out there but the concept of “hiding my hints about the main series through world building with an unreliable narrator” is not done particularly well with f&b. i think it just doesn’t fit george’s gardening writing style and i wish he’d let it go or at least rework the concept.

some changes are needed

again, yeah objectively, and that’s not even just an f&b thing. adapting a series with this many characters and this many moving parts is monumentally difficult and that’s not even getting into how moving from book to film is always a challenge bc something that works on paper won’t work visually. but also, with how all over the place f&b is, it makes sense to tweak things to be more thematically resonant.

people are expecting better writing but these people do NAWT have that dog in em

again objectively right. it’s not just that no one can stand up to george’s writing, it’s that d&d just fundamentally misunderstand or don’t care about a lot of the main themes and characters in the books. they specifically spoke derisively about fans of the books who were “moms” (what the fuck does that even mean!) and nerds who like to analyze themes, because d&d are fake nerds, they are NOT fantasy lovers and they are NOT good writers. then you get condal, who imo buys way too much into the idea of the divinity of nobility in fiction (which is a very common thing in american fantasy. i think i’ve talked about this before, but mia from btb had a really great thread basically saying that divine nobility is so common in american fantasy bc we’ve never culturally HAD a monarchy & therefore don’t have that cultural memory of “this system sucks and we should be guillotining these freaks post haste” and this is something george is specifically critiquing!) which is why he’s so willing to cut lowborn or what i like to call “middle class nobility” like jeyne poole, beth cassell, and nettles (and tbh i think there’s shades of this in why sandor is written so abysmally too) and i do think ryan UNDERSTANDS that monarchies are Bad but he has this preoccupation with Exploring Divine Right that eclipses a lot of the class analysis. and hess is just like. idk what that woman’s problem is tbh i think she has a preoccupation with women being victimized and while i think understanding the ins and outs of what Being A Woman In The World is incredibly important to have in the writers room, i also think what she wants is catharsis and that’s just not something this series is ever going to offer anytime soon.

all of that to say, condal & hess may have a better understanding of the series and less weird hang ups about gender, race, and sexuality than d&d, they’re already kind of fucked bc the og show is such a bad adaption and they have their OWN hang ups that they seem completely unaware of, and no one to tell them no bc this ip is hbo’s cash cow.

the problem

HOWEVER. i feel similar about like, the last jedi for example in that i think that was a deeply flawed and annoying movie that misunderstands the entirety of lucas’ skywalker saga and is way too focused on kyle ron’s whiny bitch baby tantrums over his parents getting divorced when it should have been focused on THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTERS in rey & finn, ntm the incredibly weird racial dynamics of how rian wrote finn, poe, rose, and tio benicio’s character who i forget the name of. BUT. i also think a lot of the good, necessary, and CORRECT criticism of tlj gets lost in the misogynistic racist nerdboy backlash to Women And Brown People Existing, and then further buried by Disney running the IP into the fucking ground (as well as, unfortunately, queen carrie fisher dying before production was finished).

So IMO i think there’s a non zero chance that HBO does some meddling with hotd bc it’s expensive and a big ip, and because tbis is a series that means a lot emotionally to a lot of people, including some of the most annoying illiterate assholes on the internet, a lot of the really good, necessary, and CORRECT criticism gets lost under the sheer amount of people with nicola-or-holliday-as-rhaenyra-icons bitching about how they don’t let rhaenyra look girly enough and never mind that outside of like two scenes where she HAS to wear trousers, she’s ALWAYS WEARING DRESSES AND JEWELRY??? it’s like, yeah i DO think the way they write daemon’s interactions with his daughters & laena is stupid & bad & makes him less interesting as a character and i think part of that is hess’ preoccupation with victimization and catharsis but do NOT put me in the same goddamn conversation as people unironically saying that targaryen problems started when they started fucking andals, it’s not MY fault the h particles go craaaazy in this fandom!

[gffa]

Hi!  I'm not sure how much help I'm going to be because my view of the sequel trilogy lives in kind of a nebulous space, where I really like the characters and I actually like a lot of the potential of the storyline, but I dislike TFA, greatly dislike TLJ, and was actually pretty okay with TROS all things considered. I don't want to dig too deep into the negativity of my feelings but they're basically - TFA was too much of a repainting of ANH for me, the initial shine of it was through its potential, but when that didn't pay off in the other movies, the shine came off TFA, too. - TLJ was set too close to TFA, Finn's character should have been tied into the Canto Bight plot (which was exhausting as it was), as a stolen child soldier he has the most reason to hate the rich, but absolutely nothing was done with him, Luke being on that island for that long was out of character for him, Rey's entire story became wrapped up in Kylo Ren, neither of those characters had nearly enough connections with others despite having very good reasons to, like why do we not spend more time on Luke & Kylo?? and it played at being subversive but it absolutely was not, it's all been done before (and I really hated the way Force abilities worked in the movie) and killing off your main villain in the second act was a baffling decision - TROS' biggest problem is that it should have been two movies instead of one, it was a series of trailers rather than a story with breathing room, and it suffered the most from the lack of planning + the main villain being killed off in the second movie But here's why I still like The Rise of Skywalker the best:  The bones of what's there are a pretty good Star Wars story!  Yes, Rey Palpatine came out of nowhere and was very silly, but if you can't handle silly, I don't know how you can make it as a Star Wars fan, it's such a silly franchise! I'm not afraid to love a scene I laugh out loud at--and, yeah, I laughed RIGHT OUT LOUD the first time Kylo dramatically said, "You're a Palpatine."  I laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes and let me tell you, I fucking LOVE that scene now. Or how the last words of any Skywalker, the last word Ben Solo/Kylo Ren ever says in the movies' franchise is, "Ow."  I am laughing RIGHT NOW, please, p l e a s e, that is so on-brand, I can't handle it, it's too funny. But I also like the basic storyline because Rey's story in TROS is her struggling with her own inner darkness, that she feels there's something dark in her soul because she's Palpatine's granddaughter.  The movie isn't saying that's true, but that Rey struggles with thinking it's true, and she has to wrestle with her dark side, just like every Jedi before her has as they're coming into their power. Anakin wrestled with his dark side and lost in Attack of the Clones and even worse in Revenge of the Sith. Luke wrestled with his dark side in the vision he sees of himself in Vader's helmet in the cave in ESB and in the climactic scene of ROTJ, where he nearly hacks his father's arm off in rage after his sister and friends are threatened.  He has to claw his way back out of that. Ezra Bridger struggles with the dark side in Rebels as he comes into his power and he has to claw his way out of it as well. Rey has to struggle with her own lure towards the dark side as she comes into her power--she rips a ship apart in the sky because she was so determined that Chewie was hers, she was so angry at Kylo that Force lightning burst out of her.  She's seeing Sith visions of herself on the wreckage of the Death Star.  This is a theme that has been there since the very beginning, that Jedi have to struggle through a temptation to the dark, and her relation to Palpatine preys on that. That's kind of why I wound up loving Ben's scene with Han as well, because that was an entirely imagined scene, but it represents that the way the Force works, you have to dig yourself out of the hole you're in, that Ben using the memory of his father, the last moments of connection he had with his mother, to pull himself out of the dark, really worked for me.  And I'm okay with his death, because this is Star Wars, people die before they should all the time. I even liked the political message of the final movie, yes, Rey vs Palpatine was the big Jedi vs Sith showdown, but the main galactic battle?  Had people showing up.  Just... people.  One of the themes I've talked a lot about, especially because The Clone Wars kind of has it as a running theme is that the average galactic citizen doesn't do jack shit about the state of the galaxy they live in.  The Rebellion had people starting to stand up, but it was an organized effort, it recruited people. TROS had just people showing up, that Leia and the Resistance had been trying to rally the cause, but ultimately it was the galactic public finally, finally saying, "We have to stand up and fight for ourselves, not depend on other people to do it."  Was it ham-fisted and not nearly as polished as it should have been?  Oh, no doubt.  But the message.  Just people showing up to fight against the First Order that was trying to bring back the Empire.  That meant a lot to me. And I loved Luke's character here, that he admitted when he was wrong, and gave us that banger line that's spot on:  "Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi."  Yes.  Yes.  FUCKING YES.  LUKE SKYWALKER AND JEDI PHILOSOPHY.  MY HEART.  Nailed it. Does this movie hang together as well as it should?  Absolutely not.  It needed a stronger writer, it needed more time than it got, and it needed better build-up.  But the bones of what was there were actually pretty good and, man, any movie that has Daisy Ridley in that white outfit with the hood where she looked practically ethereal cannot be all bad, in my opinion.

[thirddoctor]

I honestly don't get the Ruby thing. I saw people comparing it to Rey in The Last Jedi but that one made sense to me because on a meta level people were debating about Rey's parents since the character was first announced. The only reason we were commenting on Ruby's mother is because the show itself was doing it. So I don't get what they are trying to say here.

Well, RTD himself made the comparison - he said Ruby's story was inspired by Rey in TLJ. I'm personally very much not a fan of that movie and I actually think the reveal there suffers from the exact problem you mentioned, because 1. the sequel movies deliberately set up Rey's origins as a mystery (in a way that they didn't with, say, Finn, who also has an unknown background) and 2. TLJ acts as if Rey's question is the audience's question - are her parents important - when that was never what she cared about. TFA, TLJ, and TRoS all (in different ways) seemed unable to grasp what made the revelation about Luke's parentage work so well and instead bumbled about pointlessly.

I think Ruby's reveal is handled better and I was always onboard with her being an ordinary person, I just wish there was more going on with her character. I'm not fundamentally that interested in franchises engaging with their fandoms on some meta level if there isn't also a good, earnest story beneath all that. Something like the Impossible Girl arc worked for me because the answer to the mystery was entirely rooted in Clara's character and her choices. Ruby's most tangible effect on the plot - making everyone think her mother is Important because she's important to her - isn't something she chooses, it just happens. I spent the whole season waiting for her to do something and it doesn't quite feel like she ever did. That's where I feel cheated, far more so than about her parentage.

[anarchistauthor]

The Last Jedi, the Last Good Star Wars Movie

I'm gonna go ahead and preface this by saying, I have no idea how this will play with my social circle here on Tumblr. I know how my Twitter and Bluesky friends feel about SW, but not y'all. I don't think I've ever even seen a post about it here, and I don't care to go look. Bottom line, I have too many opinions and not enough people who agree with me, so now you have to suffer through this essay. You're welcome.

I was a fan of SW at least as early as I have memories. I'm 29 years old, which means I grew up firmly in the prequel era, and watched them young enough that I didn't even realize older people hated them. Obi-wan was my hero, not my mentor, I never really identified with Anakin and always liked Obi the most. But, and this is important, I loved Star Wars and thought all of it was good. I read one EU book set between episodes 1 and 2, I watched as much of the original Clone Wars series as I could, and I played lightsabers during recess in school. I am at least as nostalgic as every gen xer who laments a bygone era when SW was good because they don't understand that they just liked things better as a kid. But, the difference is, that kind of person tends to despise everything about the sequel trilogy, in my experience. Not so for me.

The Force Awakens was a pretty good movie in my eyes, when I first saw it. I did notice the deja vu, I had very little actual interest in Rey as a character, but just having a female force user at the forefront was huge to me, and it was certainly, at least, a solid foundation for the next two movies. My biggest TFA hot take is that Kylo Ren was the perfect antagonist for this movie, as basically a spoiled shithead who is a fanboy of his grandpa and wants so, so badly to be cool like him. I was also the sort of person who got really invested in the ~mystery~ of Rey's origin, and the speculation of her parentage.

Enter TLJ. My first emotion, at several points during this movie, was dismay. I couldn't believe they just made Rey some random person, after setting up that her background was vague and mysterious! I couldn't believe that Luke never fought anybody and then he died! But, very quickly after, I had time to process my emotions, and I realized that this movie was something special. It manages to "yes, and" TFA while also roasting me for investing so much passion into the questions it rose. "You thought she would somehow be Obi-wan's daughter? Are you serious?" And when you get angry at that, you're met with the obvious question, "Why should it matter?" It shouldn't. We want to see the characters we love come back, but when it comes to this girl, this hero, why should she have to be related to some old dead guy in order to be special? The Force is everywhere, it lives in all of us. That is the central point of TLJ. And, arguably on purpose, this film pissed off Star Wars fans more than anything ever could.

TLJ isn't just a movie that taunts the audience for speculating based on its predecessor, it taunts the audience for being overly invested in the entire franchise. TLJ looks at its series, it looks at the people who watch it, and it demands that you question your relationship with the material. It calls you a fool for assuming that an emotionally-stunted young adult like Luke would become a well-rounded mentor, for assuming that he was incapable of being tempted by darkness, for worshipping him as a pure hero. Because, who is Luke? He was a kid who was bored with simple life, got pulled away into a galactic conflict, and pretty much stumbled his way through saving the world. Even at the final moment, he was very close to murdering his father out of rage. Do you think that's just gonna go away after Palpatine died? Just because Luke put his sword away? No. It also mocks you for assuming Snoke is going to be important just because he's a large man in a fancy chair. He's a parallel to the Emperor, so you assume he'll be the same, and the movie roasts you for it by killing him off unceremoniously. And the Poe plot? That is nothing but one giant own on everyone who loved Poe assuming that the cool guy hotshot was the most important and competent person in the fleet.

The intent of all this playful mockery, I believe, was to get viewers to question how they idealize the past of the franchise. That's what it did for me. But, mediocre white dudes don't like being mocked, as we all know. They take it VERY personally, and they blew up the whole thing. They harassed creatives involved, sent death threats to poor Kelly Marie, and all in all went berserk about this movie for children about space wizards. How dare it move on?! How dare it not just be about my nostalgia?! Not just white, not just men, but I don't feel any need to deny that that's the primary demographic. There was already some backlash to TFA, but TLJ pulled no punches, and the most perpetually-offended fandom in the world lived up to its name. It's really that simple. And as a result, the Disney Overlords scrambled to make them calm down. Enter...Rise of Skywalker.

I. Fucking. HATE this movie. Apart from the fact that it tries to undo everything I loved about TLJ, it's poorly made in more conventional ways. Rushed pace, aimless writing, having no idea what to do with the characters, (not to mention giving the black protagonist a black girlfriend who has all the same backstory and traits as him, lest anyone ship him with Poe) it is the epitome of a movie that only exists for nostalgia, but it can't even do that well. If there's one lesson I've learned from the sequel trilogy, it's that JJ Abrams is not only a trashfire of a director, but he is utterly incapable of reacting to what happened in the previous movie, because he spent so much runtime just calling Rian Johnson a liar! "Rey's not no one, instead she has the most asinine backstory in the history of the franchise." To me, it reeks of a man who despised the way Rian responded to him, and is just desperate to overrule it. As a writer myself, I can't even imagine doing something like that instead of doing my best to work with what came before. The definition of hack behavior.

TLJ was a movie that tried to move Star Wars into the future, to divorce it from idolatry of the past, but ROS is a movie designed with intent to reel it back in, to say, "Hold on, art and creativity are great and all, but Disney gotta make them nostalgia bucks." A return to hero worship, to centering the leads of decades ago, to feeding the lore rather than telling a story. And the fact that it followed a film that told the story it wanted to tell and didn't give a shit how you felt about it, it's just insulting.

This is going to sound like cheesy artist babble, but to me, the art of creation is sacred, in a way. Not literally holy, but just beautiful and meaningful. Even if what comes out is bad, it's worth doing if done with sincerity. That's how I see TLJ. But given the way both fans and the rights holders reacted to it, I'm depressed and pessimistic regarding the future of the franchise. The Phantom Menace was the first movie I loved, and I still like it today. I'm sure I'll love TLJ forty years from now, and I'll probably continue to watch new SW movies when they come out. I don't know if I'll ever love a movie in the franchise again, but I can have hope. This is a movie that proved Star Wars was capable of being better, and that doesn't change just because neckbeards hate it more than they've ever hated anything. This is still going to be the franchise that has TLJ in it, and the haters can't take that from me.

[sunshinechildskywalker]

CHALLENGE ANSWER EVERY QUESTION

Hey, friend! Oh boy, buckle up! I'm a writer so prepare for a long ass answer lol. Here we go...

For most controversial character, if we're referencing all of Star Wars, I would say Kylo Ren (this blog focuses on pretty much everything other than the sequel trilogy- in my mind, they don't exist lol). My personal opinion is he's kind of a little bitch lol, but I appreciate the idea that he's sort of a reverse Luke and Vader situation. In L&V's case, it's the son turning the father back from the dark side, and in Ben Solo's case, it's the father (I wished) turning the son from the dark. *Ask me about my Kylo Ren potential rant lol.

My most unpopular opinion I would say is I actually really love Jar Jar Binks lol😅 I see why people dislike him, but I think he's sweet (and quite possibly a Sith Lord🤪)

Tumblr is my fav fandom pocket for sure!

Endor! It's funny, I actually live in a very wooded area irl, so when I would watch ROTJ on summer nights with the windows open and listen to the crickets chirping, it felt like I was really there🥰

I love me some good Luke and Vader father & son hurt/comfort, and anything Skysolo! If anyone reading this writes these kinds of fics, feel free to message me links to your work!

Favorite story element is hands down Luke's character arc and him saving Vader through compassion and forgiveness. I could go on, but then this would be a REALLY long post lol😆

Sure do! I won't link just for sake of it being kind of confusing- some of the songs take some explaining and some are just from my own fics lol, but some tops songs include "Spectrum" by Muzzy, "Isle of Flightless Birds" by Twenty One Pilots, and "illicit affairs" by Taylor Swift (bonus: see my fanvids for some of these here!)

Favorite Star Wars meme is the "and your pal friendpatine"- that one still makes me giggle snort after all these years🤣

Favorite piece of content is and probably always will be Return of the Jedi!

I get a lot of merch from a local comic book store and some from Comic-Con! I have a few Pops, some figurines, and an Ewok backpack, among many other things😁

I relate to Luke the most- I consider myself a compassionate person who leads with my heart, and I tend to be quick to forgive (sometimes to a fault). But hey, maybe I'll save someone from the Dark Side someday😆

My comfort character is 100% Luke. His compassion and willingness to see the good in others inspires me to do the same irl. He's seen me through the good, bad, and ugly in my life, and I don't know where I'd be had I not clung to him. In other words, he's my son😆

Sequel trilogy? Garbage. Absolutely not canon and never will be to me. Basically it boils down to mischaracterization and trying to undo essential parts of the Originals. I've shed actual tears of disappointment and anger over those movies. I'm happy for the people who can enjoy them, but I will never be able to.

I love the Luke & Vader community! I love being a part of something so inclusive, wacky, and fun! I know I can always reach out if I need something fandom-related or just want to pal around with like-minded people. Shoutout to all my L&V fans! A part of the fandom I don't enjoy is the incest between Luke and Vader that somehow seems to creep up in my AO3 from time to time.

A Star Wars blog I hope will follow me is @kaelinaloveslomaris if she ever followed me back or read my work, I would actually shit my pants.

The short version of why I fell in love with Star Wars is Luke's character arc and him saving Vader, and in turn, Vader saving Luke. The long version? Well, I'll post that another time when I'm feeling sappy🤪

Yes! I went to opening night for TLJ (unfortunately lol) and TROS (also unfortunate lol). I was thoroughly disappointed by both, but I also got to see Solo on opening night and that was a blast! I will say, the energy at all three was unmatched, and it was fun to be around other Star Wars super fans irl😁

I sure do write fanfic! My AO3 is here 😁 You will find a lot of L&V hurt/comfort, angst, etc, and a little Skysolo!

I absolutely loved the Obi-Wan series- seeing Obi-Wan duel Vader ("Anakin is gone. I am what remains."😭), everything about little Leia, Reva, Hayden Christensen's return, just EVERYTHING! I especially loved when Obi-Wan told Leia in what ways she was like her parents. I've seen this series at least four times and that part gets me every time😭

Yes!

Thank you SO much if you read through all this chaos- I hope you learned more about me and got a better look into my perspective of everything!

Want to answer these questions yourself? Find the original post here!

[unexpectedreylo]

Reylo Heresies #2

Heresy:  Daisy Ridley doesn’t get enough credit from Reylos.

Whenever there’s a popular m/f pairing, the man--both the character and the actor--is usually way more popular with the fangirls.  That’s generally because most of them are attracted to men and the woman is either a stand-in for the fangirls or an obstacle who needs to be forgotten about.  Anyone who has paid attention to the dynamics among Reylos on social media knows this same discrepancy applies to our humble little ship.  Everybody loves Kylo/Ben and any time there’s a fuzzy pinhole camera image of Adam in the wild, it’s a crazy day.  Meanwhile I have to dig to find anything at all about Daisy on Twitter and if I posted about any updates about her on various Reylo Facebook pages, nobody cares.  I stopped bothering.

Now I’m not saying Reylos specifically don’t like Rey.  They strongly relate to TLJ Rey, the scrappy nobody who wanted to help redeem Ben.  But I have noticed that there is a tendency to heap praise on Adam Driver’s performance throughout the trilogy and kinda ignore Daisy’s contributions.  I admit, as much as I adore Driver as Kylo/Ben it does set my teeth on edge a little bit when Reylos say he carried the whole trilogy on his shoulders.  Whatever worked had a lot to do with Daisy too, Reylo especially included.

Not only are a lot of Reylos mostly focused on Ben/Adam because they’re attracted to him, I also suspect that some Reylos who were disappointed with TROS are not happy that she has defended the film and her character’s arc.  I think they forget the perspective of an actor playing a character can be different from that of a fan.

Whatever the case may be, I think Reylos need to realize that even the best actors need somebody to play off of or else it’s like watching a dog bark at a fire hydrant.  Like the song goes, it takes two to make a thing go right.  Daisy totally commits to the part--physically and emotionally--and it’s the kind of part that doesn’t get appreciated very much in our day and age.  Dorothy types—innocent, wide-eyed, and good-hearted—are less popular with fandom than antiheroes, villains, or cynical/snarky types.  But it was the kind of counterbalance needed to Kylo Ren’s moody turbulence.  And that she does very, very well.  For someone who didn’t have a long resume when she walked in the door, she’s more than capable of meeting Adam step by step, every single time.  Their conflict brings out a feral quality in Rey and her own conflict between wanting to be with him and knowing she can’t evokes a painful rawness.  Rey is constantly encountering people she expects a lot from but disappoint her deeply, with Kylo’s refusal to turn in TLJ perhaps the most wounding of all of them.  As evidenced by the scene in TLJ where she weeps as she realizes Ben wasn’t going to turn, Daisy knows how to be heartbreaking.  

All in all, Reylo wouldn’t be as compelling without the contrasting and complimenting personalities.  

[artist-issues]

Something I've been wondering for a while is, what is your take on retcons? Or serialized stories where the authors change their minds partway through, causing words that meant one thing when it was published to now mean another?

For instance, a LOT of A New Hope is very different now after Empire, the Prequels, and even Rogue One.

Should we differentiate between how the story would have originally been interpreted vs the new context, or just say the story's meaning in light of what it is now?

...I think it depends on how much sense it makes toward the serialized story's main point.

Because with a serialized story, the whole idea is that part 1 is just part 1--the creator's not done saying what they had to say, so there's technically still time for changes--but it has to be within reason. And that reason is determined by how much has already been said and what the main point of the story as a whole is.

For example:

George Lucas already said "Luke Skywalker's father was killed by evil, and his character flaw is looking out at what could be and trying to rush to control the outcome; he needs to learn faith." In A New Hope.

But he wasn't technically finished telling the story because Luke comes back in An Empire Strikes Back. So George Lucas' retcon, that Luke's father is actually still alive, is fine--because it works within the boundaries and natural progression of what's already been said. "Luke's father's killed by evil and he needs to learn faith = Luke's father's old SELF was killed by evil, and getting blindsided by the fact that he's still alive will help Luke learn faith." Natural progression.

What I mean by "retcon" is "storyteller started to say something, then doubled back and decided to say it a different way."

They're not changing what the story is meant to communicate; they're just shifting some words around to say it more clearly. I think of good remakes the same way.

But!

If a storyteller starts to say something, then doubles back and changes the words they're using to communicate (changing who the character is, how they intentionally responded to a given situation, etc.) so that the thing the story was meant to communicate in the first place is DIFFERENT, and the changes CONTRADICT what's already been said because of that--

--then it's bad.

So.

Luke learning in ESB that his father wasn't killed by evil like ANH said, but is evil, which makes his need for faith-over-fear greater? Good retcon.

Rey learning that her parents weren't "nobodies" like TLJ said, but actually they were related to somebody important like TROS said, which changes her previously-established need to stop thinking so much about herself and just do what she can humbly? BAD retcon.

Ruined her character arc. Weakened the main point of the story. It was a retcon that basically did the storyteller's equivalent to this communication blunder:

Beginning of Sentence: "The happy dog jumped--"

End of Sentence: "The happy dog jumped flat on his back because he was sad."

That's as clear as I can make it 😅 Does that answer your question?

[negative-speedforce]

🧡💚🖤💔🏳️‍🌈 for the Flash or Star Wars?

Under the cut for space

Flash

💛: What is a popular ship you just can't get behind, and why?

Coldflash (Barry Allen/Leonard Snart). Idk, it has all the ingredients of a ship that I really should be into, but I'm just... not. I think it's just that they're that really specific brand of "friendly rivals" that doesn't really excite me that much.

💚: What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?

It's apparently really hard to "get" Nora West-Allen's character if you didn't grow up in a single-parent household, never meeting your other parent. A lot of people say that she overreacted or that she was being irrational in her actions to try to save her dad from dying. Yeah, she did make some bad decisions, but she just wanted to know her dad. She just wanted to get to know him, because she had a frankly terrible life and she thought that maybe, if he was around, things could be better. Idk I have a lot of thoughts about her but she deserves her own post.

🖤: Which character is not as morally good as everyone else seems to think?

Caitlin Snow. Because she's the token white woman of the main cast, a lot of people seem to uwu-ify her and make her into someone who can do no wrong. Really, Caitlin has willingly worked with a human trafficker and hid the fact that she had a murderous alternate personality from people who could help her with it, and the people who were put in danger because of it, for a really long time.

💔: If you had to remove one major character from the series, who would you choose?

Cecile Horton. Idk, she just bores me. She's an interesting character in the earlier seasons, but later on, her personality is just filed down to "empath".

🏳️‍🌈: Which character who is commonly headcanoned as queer doesn't seem queer to you?

They all seem like they're some flavor of LGBT+. However, with Caitlin Snow, people often headcanon her as bi or pan, but I see her as a-spec.

Star Wars:

💛: What is a popular ship you just can't get behind, and why?

Obikin. Even though I'm aware that they're both adults when most people ship it, I'm just not a huge fan of the power imbalance in there. It gives me this feeling of visceral disgust, and if I see it untagged that gets an instant block from me. Ship and let ship, I'm not going to give someone hate if they ship it, but that ship kinda grosses me out.

💚: What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character?

REVA WAS A CHILD!!! SHE WAS A CHILD SUCKED INTO A BRUTAL CULT AND NO ONE WAS THERE FOR HER!!!! YES SHE DID BAD THINGS BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HER A BAD PERSON! SHE WAS TRYING TO SURVIVE!!!! (also she's honestly one of the best most compelling characters that Star Wars has put out since the Clone Wars ended and anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't understand her character)

🖤: Which character is not as morally good as everyone else seems to think?

Padme. Again, sad dead white woman can do no wrong. She was ready to stay with Anakin, to try to bring him back to the light, even after finding out that he murdered his friends and massacred children.

💔: If you had to remove one major character from the series, who would you choose?

Kylo Ren. He really could have been interesting! He had so much potential! I was peak Reylo trash back when TLJ came out, but now? He got boring. There was potential there, but they just made him a generic conflicted sad bad boy.

🏳️‍🌈: Which character who is commonly headcanoned as queer doesn't seem queer to you?

General Hux. While I have enjoyed a few Huxlo fics in my time, I don't really see him as liking men, or he's just around the wrong type of men. MAYBE he'd be Bi with a very strong preference for women, a 0.1 on the Kinsey Scale, but I don't see him as being anything more than that.

[philomaela]

3, 8, and 25 for the choose violence ask game!

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

I mean obviously there are a lot of Vikings ones that I disagree with... that's boring (also I fought those fights in real time and now I'm over it lol). I'm gonna commit to choosing violence and pick the last jedi.

The take on Rose as being someone who abused Finn and was a terrible person the film was trying to "pretend" was a good person. It was essentially this long post about how Rose's initial introduction marked her as a terrible person who abused Finn and the end of the film was terrible for shipping Finn with his abuser. It's one I hated very much and its one I dislike all the more because I do agree with some of the points made even as I really disagree with the conclusion (and one glaring implication that we will get to).

Because here's the thing, even as a TLJ fan I agree with a lot of the criticism TLJ gets, including and actually especially about Finn's arc within that film. I like the overall idea and some beats, but I think that there was a lot that the film missed out on by having Rose operate as "teacher" rather than having them both share their experiences and allowing Finn to come to his realizations a little differently. And I would go further because I could choose violence on this subject too but actually let me get back to the topic at hand...

Back to the terrible Rose takes, I think the reason it galled me so much is because while people were very correctly discussing the issues surrounding Disney's racism and the films treatment of Finn (and John Boyega).... at the same time their arguments about Rose often had... implications that I found very uncomfortable.

Because the thing is... Rose's intro... that people found abusive... it's a parallel to Rey's first meeting with Finn. This woman sees him, makes an incorrect (but reasonable) assumption based on the info she has on hand that this guy needs to be taken down, and takes him down. Then, after he explains, she realizes what is actually going on, helps him, and then they work together. Rey is violent towards Finn in her first meeting with him too. But with her it's a cute rom-com right, with her it's a sign of how much she's fiery? Like I think people fully had a blindspot to the disparity of their treatment of Rey vs Rose.

And part of the reason I think it's so bad is because it didn't have to be like this! I think you absolutely can critique the films and Rey and Rose as characters... you can very easily criticize the decision to treat Finn like this. So it's disappointing to me I guess, that people chose to, at the same time, kind of join in on the racist pile-on that Rose (and KMT) was getting. Like she was getting it from all corners of the internet... but what else is new for actors of color I guess.

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Switching gears and moving to a fandom nobody but me cares about: Psych. I cannot believe Shawn x Gus (Shus) is not more popular than Shawn x Lassiter. I mean, I can believe it because people are often wrong. But come on! Shawn and Gus would DIE for each other, Gus claims Shawn on his taxes, Shawn and Gus practically have a secret language! They literally joined a dating show for a case and the girl revealed that she couldn't really separate them because they were so close. I mean, keep in mind they are Holmes and Watson... and yet people basically ignored them.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

I'm gonna be honest, my thing here... it's pretty much for fandoms that I am not a part of.... Basically when like hugely popular tv shows are popular on tumblr and people are complaining about fandom trends (everybody likes X, Y is so prevalent, everyone ignores this ship). I want to be clear, I think you should always criticize things like racism, homophobia, misogyny, ableism... those things will run rampant in a lot of fandoms, because they run rampant in society at large, those aren't trends, they're not what I'm talking about. But like if your fandom is big enough that you can create an entire subculture around character B even though character A is more popular in the "main stream", I think you shouldn't take that for granted. Your sub culture has sub cultures, that's not nothing, a lot of fandoms aren't that big and can't sustain that. Lol, this might be me being upset and petty, I feel like none of my fandoms are big enough to even get to that point. No sub-sub culture for me!