#meta: Palpatine

[marvelstars]

Hello,

This isn't exactly a question, but just something I’ve felt like saying for a while. I just wanted to let you know that your posts about Palpatine and Anakin’s relationship are really refreshing. Speaking as a die-hard Palpatine fangirl, I have to say it is very rare to find anyone who realizes what a complex character he is and knows that he has a human side. So many of even his own fans simply like him because he’s (supposedly) pure evil, and that makes him cool. So thank you for your great posts and for actually understanding him.

Hi Thank you :)

I am glad you like my take on Palpatine, I believe he is a character not very explored by the fandom or even official media, he is usually characterized as the evil Emperor which is ok, he is fun, that´s a completely fair take for him because Lucas did write him that way in the original trilogy even if he gave him some nuances but he wasn´t truly explored until the PT.

What I found fascinating about him were the layers Ian McDiarmird and Lucas managed to give him in the prequel trilogy, this doesn´t mean I believe he was right or that he wasn´t the main villain of star wars but he was still human and it´s interesting to explore the story from his pov, because while I believe what he did, he did for power obviously, his character needed to have other talents to be able to fool so many characters in the prequel trilogy and become such a respected politician even by the founders of the rebellion and members of the Jedi Order but I especially like to explore his relationship to Anakin, the character closest to him in both trilogies.

For example, I always found interesting Sidious relationship with Padme in the first movie, he wasn´t just Naboo´s Senator but also Padme´s political mentor, he underestimated her and expected her to give up inmediately, which was a mistake and that was how she, along with Anakin, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon managed to stop his plans of starting a civil war for at least 10 years but he didn´t do so again, and despite the fact that he doesn´t have warm feelings towards her, I believe he respected her as a political rival.

He is the ultimate sith lord but he also is someone who likes art and seems to be able to read everybody around him like a book, you can´t do that if your understanding of people is superficial, he understands human emotion and motives, and more than his powers in the force,I believe his manipulative skills are by far the scarier part of his character, because he truly managed to get the political support of the Jedi Order and Bail Organa in the Second movie, you can´t do that if you don´t work with issues the republic already had and had causes those groups would support.

Finally his relationship with Anakin is openly toxic, is about him grooming a little kid to become his perfect apprentice, a little kid that comes with a prophecy that says he is going to stop his plans and maybe become Palpatine´s killer but this grooming took him 13 years of his life, you can´t spend years of your life espending time with someone and not be a little bit attached, Palpatine didn´t have family left or children of his own and Anakin was a trusting, loving kid starving for affection, you can be evil all you like but the fact that in ROTS novel Anakin knew Sidious pastimes and admired his political skills while also feel the need to defend the Jedi Order from him, the fact Palpatine knew exactly what kind of ship models Anakin liked, that he took time to mentor him in politics, tells that despite the horrible manipulation taking place there, there was a little bit of genuine feelings from Palpatine towards Anakin which unfortunately also came with a need for control, because Palpatine is a sith and they are possesive in their love.

The fact Palpatine calls Anakin Son while Anakin thinks of him as family and in the end the Emperor uses all the skills in the force and his personal resources to keep Anakin alive after Mustafar, that is something I don´t believe he would have done for Dooku or Maul and he raised Maul, which has it´s own implications.

The fact they are not only master and apprentice but subtly have called each other family directly or indirectly, it adds a whole other layer to them as main antagonists and villains, the fact Lucas point blank said Vader still loved the Emperor on ROTJ, despite the fact he made him fight his Son and it makes sense, you can´t spend 20 years of your life supporting someone you thought as family/leader and not have feelings about it as much as a sith you may be, that goes for both of them, this nuance tells that you can be a villain, commit evil acts and still have this little space for humanity and need for contact that not even the Emperor was safe from. He only let down his guard for Vader in ROTJ.

I just find it fascinating how between Anakin´s loved ones Shmi, Padme, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Rex, etc Palpatine was one of them and that while it was the result of manipulation and grooming, it also had some genuine elements. I could see a time travel story in which Anakin/Vader Post ROTJ tries to do for Palpatine what Luke did for him and be serious about it while also doing everything in his power to stop his plans from happening.

This kind of nuance is hard to get from a story like star wars with the main villain yet Lucas, Stover and Ian managed to do so and I like to explore the implications of this and I believe that´s what makes Palpatine cool as a character.

[gffa]

One thing that caught my attention while watching The Phantom Menace in the theater, a movie I didn't expect to find anything new with after how many times I've seen it and analyzed it, was that Sidious mentions multiple times that he has to change his plans to fit the new circumstances. It got me to thinking about how Palpatine gets credit for his carefully crafted plans, but often times not for how flexible he is in changing them on the fly, especially in time travel fics where someone destroys one of his plans and that's the end of it. Which, I'm not advocating against, I love a good Take That Wrinkled Walnut The Fuck Down However You Gotta Do It fic and I don't want them to change! But in canon Palpatine makes note of things he's not expecting, like:

When Valorum sends the Jedi as ambassadors, it's not part of Sidious' plan: DAULTAY DOFINE: This scheme of yours has failed, Lord Sidious. The blockade is finished. We dare not go against the Jedi. DARTH SIDIOUS: Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again! This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops. NUTE GUNRAY: My lord, is that… legal? DARTH SIDIOUS: I will make it legal. NUTE GUNRAY: And the Jedi? DARTH SIDIOUS: The Chancellor should never have brought them into this. Kill them immediately!

On the Trade Federation ship, after Queen Amidala has disappeared from Naboo, Palpatine originally planned that she would be forced to sign the treaty, and then brings in Maul to deal with this. DARTH SIDIOUS: And Queen Amidala, has she signed the treaty? NUTE GUNRAY: She has disappeared, My Lord. One Naboo cruiser got pat the blockade. DARTH SIDIOUS: I want that treaty signed. NUTE GUNRAY: My Lord, it's impossible to locate the ship. It's out of our range. DARTH SIDIOUS: Not for a Sith. This is my apprentice. Darth Maul. He will find your lost ship.

On Naboo, after Padme allies with the Gungans: NUTE GUNRAY: We've sent out patrols. We've already located their starship in the swamp....It won't be long, My Lord. DARTH SIDIOUS: This is an unexpected move for her. It's too aggressive. Lord Maul, be mindful. MAUL: Yes, my Master. DARTH SIDIOUS: Be patient... Let them make the first move.

Palpatine's plans aren't static, they adapt and change with the events that happen, just as the other characters react to new information and head in new directions for it, so too does Palpatine and I think it's interesting to note that part of what makes him such a good villain is that he has an outline for what he wants to do, he sets up the dominoes of what he needs, but even when they don't fall precisely into place, he generally gets what he wants. He originally intended that Padme would sign the treaty, the Jedi wouldn't be involved, and that would lead to a vote of No Confidence to oust Valorum, using the sympathy for Naboo as a way to boost himself into the position. But he didn't really need her to sign it and still managed to use the sympathy for Naboo to get elected, it ultimately didn't matter what happened to the planet, so long as it was in danger while he needed it to be, he could use it either way. Nor, honestly, do I think he ever planned for Anakin Skywalker's existence, he had no idea they would find such a boy on Tatooine or how useful he was going to be, that was another way he changed his plans once the opportunity arose. Or a lot of his plots in TCW--he has Cad Bane steal the list of Force-sensitive children and kidnap them, bringing them to Mustafar for some sort of program to use them probably not too unlike how he uses the Inquisitors later. That plan is foiled by the Jedi, the babies are returned to their families, and Sidious' plans fall through, but that doesn't really change the outcome. tl:dr: I don't think Palpatine gets enough credit as a villain whose plans shift and change along with the new events that happen, just as much as the heroes' plans shift and change when new things happen. Yeah, he's a great villain because he creates an impossible trap for people, but also because the thing about him is that he's incredibly charming and charismatic and he knows an opportunity when he sees one, that any one given plan might fall through, but it's not necessary to his overall plot.

[artist-issues]

I just NEED everyone to agree with me that Rey's parents are nobody. We should all agree about that. We should collectively, as an audience, say, "clearly the best idea was to have Kylo Ren be a dynastic heir to the major legends of the Force who wants to throw off his family's shadow, while his rival is nobody from nowhere who wants to belong--so we're going to stick with that."

And then, what should have happened is, Rey can finish her story by being able to say, "My parents might have abandoned me, but that doesn't mean I'm worthless." And eventually Kylo Ren can say, "My family might have been powerful, but I don't have to be," and all those other things that they can bounce off of each other as great foils.

It can keep being a good story about accepting past failures and choosing to grow beyond them.

Let's just all collectively ignore Rey Skypatine because of how silly that was. I mean. If they can just ignore the setups in the previous movie, we can ignore their choices in the conclusion. Right?? Right? Tell me I'm right

[jaguarys]

Thinking a lot about how by the time TCW comes about Anakin has already committed a grievous sin, already committed a massacre, already chosen his side in some ways. The man Ahsoka knows, the only version of him she ever gets to know, is built on an assumption of purity he has already lost.

He has already begun to fall, and this slip contributes in so many ways to his inability to pull himself back. Because the only person other than Padmé he tells his crime to is Palpatine, because he's the only person who won't judge him (and that in and of itself is a measure of his immaturity–– because he deserved to be judged).

And this contributes so much to Palpatine's control because he has this piece of the puzzle, this ability to go "Oh, but what about this?" any time Anakin tries to pull back from Palpatine's confidence. Because they both know if he ever admitted it to the Order he'd forever lose their approval, and that's what matters most. So Palpatine has this advantage, because he knows more about Anakin than anyone else and Anakin doesn't feel he can confide in anyone else.

But the thing is: for so long, Anakin wants to be better, wants to amend himself for this sin and more than once wants to confess to Obi-Wan, but every single time Palpatine is able to go "Oh but he thinks he's so much better than you, he would never understand you, he would judge you and tell the Order and they'd cast you out" but... Obi-Wan would have forgiven him anything.

I think a lot about Obi-Wan being such a Perfect Jedi (in the eyes of everyone else if nothing else) and how much that hurts Anakin. Because every time he tries to pull himself back from the ledge this epitome of what it means to be a Jedi is just there in his face reminding him of his own failure

[padmestrilogy]

the empty queen

brynne rebele-henry / asia moe-whittler / bjork / lucie brock-broido / kate bush / tori amos / sam adams / mcr / francesca lia block / paramore / mitski / sam adams, cont / sylvia plath / emilie autumn / jenny holzer / nicole dollanganger / hayden blackman

[panickedscribbles]

I've been thinking about Star Wars discourse lately, and I think a lot of the reason so much of the fandom is constant back and forth arguments is because a lot of the time, two characters can be right simultaneously while also disagreeing completely with each other.

Take the whole "Too old, he is" thing.

On one hand, obviously wrong. Anakin is nine, he's at most a few years behind, and textually managed to catch up pretty well. Like, if Palpatine and the Sith Plan weren't constantly messing him up, there is every possibility that Anakin could have become a well adjusted Jedi. Nine is by no means too old to learn a skill.

On the other hand, the council demonstrates perfectly in that scene that they are completely unequipped to deal with a nine year old who hasn't been raised in their culture, especially one from a heavily traumatized background. The pop-quiz they ask him would be perfectly acceptable for a nine-year-old youngling, but Anakin literally just walked in. They are giving an end-of-year exam to a kid who has never even seen a school. And they assume this is fine, because that's just what you do with nine-year-olds.

More to the point, they are completely failing to take into account the previous nine years of his life. They ask a kid, who up until all of about 18 hours ago had been enslaved since birth, to be open and honest about his emotions, in a room full of complete strangers, most of whom answer to "Master"! They have somehow engineered a situation so psychologically damaging that Palpatine is taking notes in the corner, entirely without realizing. When the council says they shouldn't take him in, they are one hundred percent right. Nine is WAY too old when you've spent that time as a slave, and are being entrusted into the care of people who have never had to raise a nine year old who wasn't raised like they were.

Or how about Anakin not being made a master. Was he right to insist he get the title, or was the council.

Well, Anakin should be made a master, you see, because,

He's one of the main Generals fighting and coordinating the war

And he's one of their most successful warriors. Like, he's the guy they call in whenever they need an impossible mission completed

He's more or less the face of the war effort, as "The Hero Without Fear"

As an ex-slave, obtaining the title of Master would be a huge psychological weight lifted off his shoulders.

Since they're making him part of the council for espionage purposes, making him a master as well serves as better cover

Giving him more reason to stay loyal to the Jedi after they just asked him to betray the trust of one of his oldest and closest friends wouldn't be the worst idea

Like, if ever there was a reason to give someone a promotion, those are some pretty good ones.

However, on the opposite side of the issue, literally none of that has any bearing on "Mastery" as the Jedi define it. Being a Jedi Master is all about mastery over oneself, having a deep understanding of the force, and a certain level of inner peace.

You'll notice that at no point does being really good at large-scale violence, being well known for being really good at large-scale violence, or wanting it a lot factor into being made a Jedi Master. Everything Anakin is good at, Everything Palpatine, and the war, and the council have pushed Anakin into being good at, do nothing to bring him any closer to Mastery, and in fact often push him further away from it.

In both of these examples, you can make a very compelling argument in either direction. Hell, you can make a compelling argument in both directions at the same time. And I think that's really neat.

[passionesolja]

I feel like Star Wars missed the opportunity to make Darth Maul and Count Dooku beef. Like all there’s this conversation about Maul and Kenobi’s relationship but imagine being Count Dooku and you gotta live with the fact that the mf who killed your Padawan (one of the events that ended up making you align yourself with the Sith) is alive and living his best life. I would be so pissed. Sidious had to tell Count Dooku not to fuck with Maul bc I refuse that Dooku had no want to slide for Qui Gon Jinn

[david-talks-sw]

Let's briefly talk about this scene.

It starts with Anakin lamenting how the Clone War corrupted the Jedi and the principles of the Republic.

Now, Padmé thinks she and Anakin are talking about the same thing: this war is corrupting the Jedi and the principles of the Republic and Palpatine doesn't seem to want to put an end to it, instead increasingly amassing power.

She asks Anakin to get Palpatine to cease the fighting and let diplomacy resume. And Anakin. Gets. Triggered.

Why?

Well, firstly... it's because they weren't talking about the same thing.

1. What Anakin really means when talking about "the principles of the Republic".

While Anakin may say that he's concerned for the corruption of the Jedi Code and the principles of the Republic... he isn't really.

Anakin has a track record of saying he supports abstract principles and concepts, then complaining when standing by that hurts him.

Like when he'll preach that wartime forces him to make hard choices, duty over emotion...

... but then gets mad when someone else makes the hard choice in doing their duty, and it hits close to home.

There's this line Matthew Stover wrote in the ROTS novelization, which I think is very relevant:

“I think," Obi-Wan said carefully, "that abstractions like peace don't mean much to him. He's loyal to people, not to principles. And he expects loyalty in return. He will stop at nothing to save me, for example, because he thinks I would do the same for him.”

Anakin isn't about abstractions like "peace", "duty" or "democracy". He'll say he is, because he knows he should be, in theory... but, in practice, he's more loyal to people than to principles.

And right now, he's very loyal to Palpatine. Arguably more than anyone else. No matter how blatantly he acts like a dictator, Anakin stays on his side.

So whenever he uses the words "Senate" and "Republic", what he means is "Palpatine". To him, they're one and the same.

He loves Palpatine very much but the two other people he loves, Padmé and Obi-Wan, are both telling him Palpatine's bad news.

Which brings us to the second reason he gets triggered...

2. He's under an enormous amount of stress.

He's barely had any sleep since his nightmare about Padmé and is now scared at the prospect of losing her like he lost his mother.

He's been on an emotional roller-coaster with the Council, first being put on the Council, but not as a Master, then being given a mission but it's a mission to spy on a mentor and father figure. Now he's not even sure the Jedi trust him and he's not even sure they should, after his outburst.

Also Padmé herself is asking him to tell Palpatine to stop, criticizing the Chancellor just like the Jedi do.

It's understandable that he's on edge. That said... a huge chunk of this stress isn't Padmé or the Council's fault. It has been manufactured by Palpatine.

He appointed Anakin to be his representative on the Council specifically because he knew it would put Anakin under pressure... pressure he can exploit for his own gain.

That's what Palpatine does. He orchestrates pressure then swoops in, in the guise of a savior.

With the Republic, he does this by engineering a war then bringing about order (to the chaos he caused) as an Emperor.

With Anakin, he does this by engineering conflict between him and his family - Padmé, Obi-Wan, the Jedi - then presenting himself before Anakin as the solution to all his problems.

From that point on, he enables the Republic and Anakin to give in to the worse parts of themselves and implode.

The former goes from being a democracy to a dictatorship, the latter goes from being a sweet kid to a bad man.

[brrmian]

something that so many star wars fans somehow fail to realize is that george lucas always intended for the fall of the republic to be a completely unavoidable tragedy. that’s what makes it such brilliant storytelling.

placing the blame on just one party in the galaxy-wide farce that was the clone wars just isn’t interpreting the story the way its writer intended. neither is saying that all players should be held equally accountable. i don’t think the jedi were at fault for the state of the republic, and (despite the fact that he did horrible things) neither was anakin, on a galactic or governmental scale.

the real villain is palpatine, who shaped the government into a corrupt system by his own hand. the blame for turning a democratic republic into an authoritarian dictatorship (which it was long before it became the empire) under the noses of thousands of incredibly corrupt politicians must be placed entirely on him, and him alone.

by the end of the war, the jedi council recognized that they had already lost the ability to hold onto what it truly means to be a jedi. in their prime during the days of the old republic, the jedi knights were “the guardians of peace and justice.” they’re meant to as diplomats, peacekeepers, mediators, and public servants. when the clone wars began, they were essentially forced into being soldiers, generals, and quasi-politicians by palpatine and the senate. all of those things are antithetical to the jedi’s beliefs, but they had no other choice.

placing even the smallest bit of blame on the jedi for anything leading to the republic’s downfall—and their own—is not only unfair, it’s factually incorrect. the jedi order is a monastic organization. they have no say in the senate and no voting power. saying they’re corrupt, when in fact they were just as conned by palpatine as the rest of the galaxy, is victim-blaming and scapegoating.

palpatine shoved the jedi face first into fighting the war, and pretty much threw the clone army into their laps on top of that. the jedi had no say in the matter, and they certainly had no say in the war itself being started, either. because he controlled both sides, palpatine was able to make the CIS and the republic declare war on each other even though its citizens wanted the same outcome: political independence and survival. if not for palpatine’s schemes, the separatists would have been allowed to secede peacefully, the republic would have continued existing, and the war would have been completely avoided. but that was unfortunately not the case.

so in a galaxy thrown into an unavoidable war by its own secret dictator, with an army of sentient slaves suddenly at their command, and the risk of billions of deaths at the hands of the droid army imminently approaching, what do the galaxy’s official peacekeepers have no other choice but to do? be peacekeepers. why wouldn’t the sworn defenders of the galaxy be out on the battlefields trying to end the war? if they sat in the temple and did nothing, they simply wouldn’t be jedi.

the jedi were forced into a lose/lose situation. every religion and organization has faults, but that doesn’t place any blame on them for the catch-22 they were trapped into falling for. when the clone wars started—and the key point here is that it never should have in the first place—the jedi still needed to be jedi. unfortunately for them, that meant having positions of power not meant for them being thrust upon their shoulders. they couldn’t drop the burden, because that meant actively choosing not to save lives—but the other option, becoming soldiers despite the tenet of their beliefs that dictates they shouldn’t, was no better.

see what a cruel trap palpatine set? it’s like a fish being caught in a fisherman’s net. the net is spread out across the ocean floor, and the fish swim above it, not knowing that the trap is waiting to be drawn in around them from below. in the end, when the net starts to tighten, dragging them closer to the surface, they can’t swim fast enough to escape from the middle to the edge—and to safety—before the net is completely tied. it’s the cruelest kind of trap: the kind that gives you just the right amount of time to think you can escape while being sprung just quick enough to make actually escaping impossible.

in the end, the order actively chose to fight the war because they needed to. there was no other way to continue on as who they were. militarizing the order was not the right choice in a vacuum, but this was not that; this was a situation in which every galaxy-changing choice was the wrong one. the jedi knew they were making a decision that drew them farther away from their beliefs, but it was the lesser of an infinite list of evils, and they didn’t see the walls closing in on them until it was too late.

lucas himself has even said that the order was not corrupt or decaying from the inside, nor did they make a series of bad choices that ultimately led to their own destruction. they were always just trying to do the right thing—but unlike literally everything else in fiction, the jedi order’s death was completely unaffected by any of the choices they made. no matter what they did, they were always going to lose. the fall of the republic wasn’t caused by its defenders choosing what they saw as the least bad choice. it didn’t come down to any decisions, political or not, that the jedi council made with the limited tools that they had. it certainly didn’t come down to one emotionally unstable twenty-three-year-old’s slow descent into insanity, either. the republic and the jedi would still have been destroyed with or without anakin’s unhinged nervous breakdown.

anakin, just like the order, the republic, and the separatists, was taken advantage of by palpatine. even if a person’s choices are their own, they don’t exist in a vacuum.

anakin would have made better choices if not for palpatine, but he didn’t. the jedi order would have kept the peace if not for palpatine, but no matter how hard they tried, they couldn’t. the republic, and democracy with it, would not have crumbled if not for palpatine. not the order, not anakin, not the separatists, and not the republic.

in the end, they were all just pawns in a decades-spanning plan, one that none of them saw coming until it was too late—and by then, it was already irreversible.

[marvelstars]

Anakin and Slavers

"His undoing is that he loveth too much"

George Lucas

One thing that I always liked about George´s work in relation to Anakin and slavery is how out of the left field he and Dave Filoni wrote Anakin´s relationship to the people who owned or saw him as a property at one point or another and yet it makes total sense for his character.

For example kid Anakin has no doubt that Slavery is horrible and at 9 he is actually working towards developing technology to help free his Mom, friends and himself from it. He hates with capital H the fact those people have control over the life and death of other people but at the same time he has great compassion and kindness which his mother helped nurture. This along with the fact that Watto was the only adult male figure who was around during his early chilldhood, this complicated his feelings towards slavers in a very tragic way.

Anakin feared Watto´s violence and didn´t for a moment doubt he would have been willing to sell off his mother or him if the customer got to a big enough price but at the same time he listens to his advice when he travels to the dune sea to do his work with the jawas and his pov is almost as important as his Mom´s, in the novelization of TPM Anakin remembers not to talk to strangers or to get close to Tuskens Raiders camps thanks to Watto´s advice.

So in Anakin´s mind, Watto is someone he fears but also someone he takes advice from, respects to a point, sometimes gets sassy to and actually listens to almost as a father figure BUT at the same time he has no doubt he would activate the killing chip if he tried to escape.

Pain/abuse/fear mixed with care/advice(sounds familiar?) Anakin knows slavery is awful but he can´t help but see Watto as a person because of who Anakin is, Annie is a kind and understanding person and to point may justify Watto as a "Man of bussines" and "Not as bad a other masters" "It could be worse" but he definitely doesn´t trust him in the same way he does his mother, she is blood, she is family. He and Mom are a team.They shared their secrets.

The first time Anakin saw Watto again after being freed, he was a Jedi with training, almost a knight and the first thing he does to the guy who beat him and his Mom some years ago is to ask him if he can help with the ship parts Watto is working on because he noticed Watto is struggling and his bussines is falling down compared to how it was when Anakin was a kid. When Watto noticed who Anakin was he didn´t reject him and accepted his congratulations but keep himself appart, hoping to learn about his mother whereabouts.

When Watto told Anakin he sold Shmi, Anakin doesn´t have a reaction, he takes Watto´s justification of "I am sorry Ani but bussines are bussines and anyway the person who bought her freed her and married her" Anakin doubts it´s as good a picture as Watto is talking about but he takes his justification and leaves.

When he meets Owen, Beru and Cliegg he sees they are indeed nice people and the reason for his mothers suffering is something completely different that they were not able to stop so he doesn´t blame them for her fate. When Anakin lost his mother it was only natural for him to seek a family, someone he could share how he really felt and his secrets, he could not be part of the Lars family but Padme was willing to love him so she became his new confirmed family, right along with Obi-Wan and Ahsoka but while he had to show himself different to them, he didn´t had to do that with Padme, just like he did with his mother.

In the clone wars Anakin shows again this complex view of slavers with Queen Miraj Scintel, the cartoon goes out of it´s way to show she looked at him as pretty property and he didn´t let her forget that and actually it was strongly suggested he may have been raped by her at some point to keep safe Obi-Wan, Rex, Ahsoka as well as the people they wanted to save while he got enough soldiers to stage their rescue. Anakin had a plan the whole time just as he did as a kid so he keep his cool even when he saw another slave choose suicide over keep being under the control of Scintel. Yet in the end when the Queen was killed by Count Dooku Anakin felt sorry for her, he could not help it.

So this mix of rejection/anger/hate/disgust towards slavers mixed with pity/understanding which is something that was part of what made Anakin a good person gets used agaisn´t him in his relationship with Palpatine.

He first shows himself as the father figure Anakin thought he could find in Qui-Gon before he died a better father figure than Watto had been, a father figure that didn´t reject this title like ObiWan did, Palpatine did this to get his trust as a young child and later young adult and then he showed himself as the real sith master he actually was, Palpatine knew that Anakin wasn´t a stranger to be treated as property by people who showed themselves as good advicers or somehow not as bad as others despite their actions. So Anakin´s initial compassion, kindness and understanding for people that abused him is played agaisn´t him to make him fall to the darkside and chain himself again to another worse master who didn´t just seek to use his skills and body but who wanted his soul as well.

And the same reasons why Anakin justified Watto at first when he was a young kid also applied to Palpatine, he may be a sith but he ran the Republic better than those corrupt politicians, he isn´t a perfect Emperor but in Padme´s absence he is better than the alternatives. He isn´t as bad as a master and anyway I deserve this because I fell to the darkside and nobody can come back from that, if he abuses me I got this coming because I choose this and he still teaches me the ways of the force, he rescued me from Mustafar when Obi-Wan left me to die and he didn´t have to, he is all I have left.

So once Anakin´s voice died down Vader was left with many reasons to say to Palpatine "What´s your bidding my master?" because in his mind master isn´t a word that contradicts father and Palpatine became his father in all but name, this makes George´s words about Anakin fatal flaw being the fact he loved too much make complete sense and it´s a tragedy.

[gffa]

So many of the plans to “save” the prequels require Palpatine’s plans to be static and generic, like let’s say Qui-Gon was a good master for Anakin (set aside whether you agree on this or not) and the idea is that he wouldn’t have had those specific fractures Anakin and Obi-Wan had, he would have been the father figure Anakin needed.  (Set aside whether you agree with this or not, too.) But that’s saying that Palpatine would have come at Anakin from the exact same angle, instead of playing to the fractures that Qui-Gon and Anakin would have developed, like Qui-Gon’s full throttled belief in the Chosen One prophecy would have been so easy to exploit, Palpatine would have hit those notes hard, “Oh, my dear boy, I’m simply afraid that your Master only sees you as the Chosen One, not who you are for you.” Palpatine’s plans were not static, he adjusted them for when Maul survived, he adjusted them when Obi-Wan just would not die, he adjusted them when Ahsoka came into the picture, etc.  Palpatine’s plans were not static, they were dynamic and would not have been the same, if someone else had trained Anakin, they would have been tailored to that specific relationship, too.

[kalak]

Luke knowing the bare minimum and palpatine knowing all the things makes for a hilarious juxtaposition. By the time the original trilogy happens, palpatine had already won. The jedi are nearly extinct, he has his death star, he has a durasteel grip on the galaxy, his master plan of toppling the republic has succeeded with thunderous applause.

Luke doesn't know all that. Luke doesn't know shit. He literally is in the dark regarding the force and the politics. And his heritage. He doesn't know how much meticulous planning and scheming palpatine did! He has no idea of what happened to make the republic fall, he has no idea that palpatine is even a sith until he meets him in the second death star - to palpatine, luke would have been such an unsatisfying hero, he doesn't even know enough to fully appreciate his genius, the craft behind his empire.

Luke's just a pawn to be played with, another of the thousand fledgling jedi that palpatine has played with countless of times. He doesn't have the decades of knowledge nor the acumen palpatine has accumulated over the years - what can he possibly scheme up to topple palpatine? But then Luke just puts a lightsaber through palpatine's Gordian knot and. Wham down the reactor shaft you go

[jaguarys]

Not to yell even more about Anakin Skywalker but. He's such a childish character, and to that end I think he sees things in very black and white terms. Things are either good or bad or right or wrong and it makes it so much harder for him (not to mention making him immensely easier to manipulate).

He makes mistakes and then doesn't confide in people because he thinks they'll no longer care for him, as though love is that easier quantified or so transactional because people will either trust him or they won't or they'll love him or they won't. He can't conceptualize of people continuing to care for him if they know too much about him. And in turn that makes him far more easily affected by Palpatine because Palpatine echoes back those same fears to make sure he doesn't stray too far.

His upbringing contributes a lot to it because he could either be useful or not. Be strong or not. Handle what he needs to or not. It's a viewpoint built for survival which much like his other habits turns around to bite him long term.

I think that's a lot of what makes Anakin so devastating. Because in so many ways shit just kind of happens around him and he drowns trying to catch up. His entire selfhood is built around trying to claw onto any bit of control he can get and in the end? He intentionally gives it up.

[sheepfulsheepyardinspace]

luke’s scene in rotj where he throws down his lightsaber and says, “I’ll never turn to the dark side. you failed, your highness. i am a jedi, like my father before me,” makes me more and more emotional each time i see it. it’s such a triumph and it’s such a brave stand—not only because luke is literally facing down death with no real expectations of escaping the death star ii, which on its own has such impact—but because he is more or less declaring himself a heretic. the only two jedi left alive do not believe vader can be saved. vader himself believes he is far past saving. palpatine is so poised for victory, so assured in his complete control over not only luke’s fall but also his control over vader, that he is happy to torture luke in front of vader, absolutely convinced that vader will do nothing to stop it. in light of the prequel trilogy, it’s made even more powerful: the jedi disavowed having children as an extension of attachments, a matter of course for the old jedi order. but when luke is in his moment of greatest need, he calls out to his father, and his father answers. ultimately, it’s their forbidden familial relationship that defines them as jedi—luke becomes a jedi in honor of his father, and his father turns back from the dark side (a feat thought impossible until that very instance) and recalls the jedi knight anakin skywalker, all for his son. and that’s all in defiance of what the jedi were told to be, what obi-wan and yoda believed, what palpatine never thought possible! luke redefines what a jedi is when he throws down his weapon. he trusts in the power of his connection to his father, their attachment to each other, and when he does that? luke skywalker topples the empire.

[gretchenzellerbarnes]

"anakin would've never turned to the dark side had qui gon lived." utter. bullshit. not only is this particular hot take an insult to obi-wan it completely robs anakin of his agency, because at the end of the day it was anakin's decision to pledge his loyalty to palpatine and to destroy everything that the people he loved held dear. that's what makes anakin skywalker such a compelling character, and as darth vader a tragic and iconic villian... because he did this to himself.

[sad-stucky-shipper-107]

I apologize in advance for spamming the tags but I just had a cursed thought and I need you all to also think about this:

Ik some of us don't really like to acknowledge the sequels but Palpatine rlly said trans rights lmfao when he was tryna transfer his consciousness into Rey's body, like man simply did not give a fuck the body he was trying possess was female.