#more evidence of him being her narrative heir

[amber-laughs]

catelyn throwing her blanket off her with ned’s cum still running down her legs in front of maester luwin vs Jon being ass naked dripping wet in front of alliser thorne, othell yarwyck and bowen marsh STOP calling each other names! neither of you have any fucking decorum

[acourtofthought]

I have some questions for ya.

For Elain to be the cauldron's favorite, this must lead to something in her book. Are there any implications of being "cauldron's favorite" aside from her powers? If so, what are they?

For Lucien and his identity as Helion's son, how do you think Lucien will find out and come to terms with being the heir of the HL of Day Court? To what extent will this affect his relationship with other characters (himself, his mate, family, Tamlin, NC, Feyre, etc.)

Vassa will return to Koschei, what do you think she can do during her captivity? How does Jurian fit into the narrative? (his role essentially and his potential actions)

Will we see more of Tamlin? Side character appearance to Lucien's story? Potential ending for him?

Lastly, do you think one book can satisfactorily resolve the stories of all these characters? Feel free to be as honest as possible.

P.S. These questions are just hyping me up for the next book because I'm really sure Elain's book is next.

I actually don't think the Cauldron will be a major plot point in Elain's book though I do think it will come into play in the next "series" SJM contracted for (which I think is still part of the ACOTAR world but with a focus on the Valkyrie / Illyrians / Autumn Court, maybe even the Seraphim).

In one of her Live interviews, SJM made the comment that there will be consequences to Nesta changing her and Feyre's anatomy. I think that has less to do with consequences for she and Feyre specifically and has more to do with her actions awakening the Cauldron which might have sent out some sort of pulse into the universe. We know the Midgard Asteri are now dead but they had always been searching for survivors on other worlds. Since we also now know the Daglan / Asteri tied themselves to the Cauldron, it makes some sense that it would act as a Beacon to the other Asteri in the universe, calling them back to Prythian where there is this cache of power waiting for them.

But plotwise, I don't think we're there yet. While I think it's evident SJM is setting up for more world walking, currently the people in their world are still trying to recover after the war with Hybern, trying to redraw the boundaries and territories, trying to secure peace among themselves. Throwing time travel plots into the very next book then wrapping it up with Elain and Lucien, Koschei, Beron and the treaty (things not connected to time travel) seems backwards since world walking / time travel seems a much larger story, a more epic journey that might end in some sort of crossover battle with not only the ACOTAR characters but characters from Midgard, the Princes of Hel, maybe the TOG characters.

So for Elain's book, I don't think her connection to the Cauldron will be a major plot point outside of our knowledge that it wanted to give her gifts and those gifts will be important in helping her resolve the open ended plots in SF (Tamlin, Beron, Koschei, the treaty etc).

I go back and forth on Lucien and his heritage. I think he may have always suspected he was not Berons' son but did not automatically jump to Helion as his father. Helion only became HL of Day UTM, after Amarantha killed it's previous HL and most of his family so I do think Lucien's Day powers / markers of a future HL have only recently been appearing for him. I think there's a chance, since the end of ACOMAF, he's now begun putting things together but still isn't 100% sure. I could see Elain having had a vision of Lucien in Day, maybe she'll be the catalyst for him finally understanding the full truth? Maybe when he and Eris resolve their past issues with one another, Eris will know and he'll be the one to confirm?

As with mostly everything that is thrown Lucien's way, I think he would easily step into whatever it all means for him. He's stepped up even when nobody asked him too and maybe this will finally lock something in place for him, the sense of truly having a purpose rather than being doomed to the life of a drifter.

I don't think there's much Vassa will be able to do during her captivity though I think once freed, she'll definitely play a role in helping defeat Koschei. Jurian, I think, will be with Elain and Lucien on their travels to the continent. He'd play the same role that the IC did for Feyre at times, Gwyn and Emerie for Nesta at times. While I don't think he'll be the main focus, SJM always finds a way to give humans a purpose even when alongside fae or other characters with magic (i.e. Nesryn, Chaol, Yrene).

Yes to Tamlin. Spring has been a main focal point for a few books now, the people without leadership, that Beron is looking to take over it's land, how the NC needs Spring's army as an ally. There is no better time for SJM to resolve his arc than in an Elucien book especially as his relationship with Lucien has been strained this whole time.

At the end of it all, I'm not sure I see Tamlin staying High Lord. He's neglected his people for far too long and if the magic can giveth, I imagine it can taketh away. It's a position he never wanted in the first place and I could see him stepping into the role of general of the Spring army.

And yes, I do think an Elucien book could resolve the major plots laid out in SF and even a few in HOFAS. I think they can secure the peace treaty, restore Spring, kill Beron, and bring back the dying lands of the world (the Bog / the Prison) / cure the illness plaguing the Pegasus, setting up Lucien as High King to maintain the peace across the fae and human territories. I think that would then be a natural way for SJM to transition into the future of the ACOTAR series which would deal with time travel / world walking. Where once the climate in the rest of their world is settled, the NC can deal with the Illyrians, the Valkyrie can continue training not only themselves but other females so they become a true elite female fighting unit (I don't see them having Pegasus of their own until the illness affecting the foals is cured, Helion only has a few breeding pairs and I doubt he'd risk sending them into battle and having them completely wiped out). I think Merrill would be one of the next villains, a catalyst for trying to helping other surviving Asteri / Daglan enter their world and that would prompt some in the IC to world walk in an effort to stop them / joining characters from other series to fight "space" battles so their own worlds remain protected.

[quirkwizard]

You’ve previously mentioned the idea of if all might and all for one swapped places within their narrative roles, with all might being more of a chaotic vigilante and all for one being more akin to a safety commission direction, but considering how influential these two characters are in a “what if” story which characters do you think would also end up switching sides to be either hero or villains instead? (Obviously since these two are so influential I don’t expect you to cover everything, just who you think would be interesting to talk about)

To be honest, when I was imagine this alternative world, I was only thinking about All For One and All Might swapping places and no one else. That being said, I can still imagine a few alternative characters to fit this world, namely characters close to these two. I will not cover Izuku and Tomura. Those two could make up their own posts talking about them.

Gran Torino and Nana: The old guard of the crusade against the machine, running a much smaller cell compared to the swarm that All Might commands. Nana's death made her a martyr, and with Gran Torino supporting the charismatic new heir, it grew to far more dangerous proportions.

Endeavor: A former top hero who was constantly thrashed by All Might. His growing resentment eventually lead him to go bad. Abandoning all pretenses, he now fights both sides, fighting solely in the prusuit of becoming better and finally being the one to take All Might down.

Sir Nighteye: He's still effectively All Might's sidekick, but is now he's using his immense mental fortitude to keep All Might's "revolution" as stable as possible between the various cells and groups. His ability to see the future has been a great asset in avoiding capture or planning out larger scale stratagems.

Stain: A former advocate and follower of All Might, he eventually saw the flaws in Toshinori's pointless and destructive crusade and turned traitor, either hiding as a turn coat inside of All Might's ranks or out on his own hunting down any would be collaborators that would call themselves heroes.

Twice and Toga: Two members of All For One's Undesirables team, a force of agents under his command that help with various clandestine activities. Similar to their stories in canon, but taken under All For One's wing to give them the help and direction they need, with Toga acting as a spy and Twice giving them manpower.

Garaki: An award winning doctor who was broken by the destruction of his hospital during a fight with All Might's forces. Now he works directly for the Hero Commission, his seeming jovial nature hidding immense pain as he works and studies the various Quirks on the heroes' side and acting as the team medic.

Kurogiri: While his exact origins are unknown, whether he be a deviation or a mad experiment gotten loose, he has been useful as member of the Undesirables. He's the one making sure that All For One and his team can get in and out an any point they need to without anyone realizing they were even there.

Dabi: Another member of the Undesirables who makes sure there is no evidence behind, he has a more personal goal in mind. While trying to stop his once admired father, Dabi burned himself out. Saved by All For One and Garaki, he sees this as a second chance at life and being a real hero, one that can save his family and it's legacy.

[last-ofthe-starks]

HOTD episode 8 Easter eggs and Thoughts

First of all, to me this episode was so critical as a book reader in shaping and fleshing out so much of the unsaid hatred that we are told came to pass between the blacks and the greens. It is so black and white in the books, but this show has masterfully created scenarios and moments that perfectly illustrate in only 8 episodes why the animosity is so strong, and how Viserys’ rule could unravel the way it did.

Out time jump is made evident by new actors (and Jace’s horrible haircut). Rhaenys states that it has been 6 years since she last saw Corlys so that confirms the actual time jump. We have now aged up for the last time, and these actors will carry out the rest of the season.

Viserys is literally falling apart and my word, was that good acting. Paddy started out so strong at the beginning of the episode then knocked my socks off in the last scene. In the books they did say that towards the end of Viserys’ life he was often carried around the castle in a chair like we saw. It also said that following the events covered in this episode, he never sat on the throne again. They combined a few significant moments together in this episode, which served the greater narrative without having to fill what would be years with more filler plot.

The meat and potatoes of this episode cover the politics and importance of Driftmark to the throne. What we do know, however, is that the undercurrent of everything always comes back to Viserys’ succession and the legitimacy of Rhaenyra’s children is always looming in the background. Corlys being injured calls attention to just how pivotal the Velaryon family truly is in the grand scheme of the realm. They control the sea, are a loyal ally, have fierce fighters in their ranks, and are married into the Targaryen family. With so much at stake for their House, Corlys’ brother Vaemond is attempting to make a claim for himself, which is totally warranted when you think of the circumstances. It’s a great plot device in this episode and a legitimate concern for a House that so far has received the short end of the stick in their alliance with the Targaryens.

When we see Alicent, she is sitting in place of the King discussing the matter. The first comments she makes imply she is thinking on her own, but then Otto steps in and starts to sway her in a different direction that better serves his plans once again. Otto is always threatening the war looming in the background whenever he needs to. This scenario is no different, as they want someone experienced in leading a fleet as an ally when the war following Viserys’s death inevitably comes. House Velaryon and Driftmark is threatened by Rhaenyra and her bastard children in Vaemond’s eyes - and so Otto sees this as a two birds one stone scenario. Vaemond’s accusations and argument for the claim is a way to put Rhaenyra in her place, remove her son as heir to a powerful island and people, and reinforce the accusations that her sons are not true born.

Daemon getting the clutches of eggs is another indication of time if you read the books. The clutches were described as being laid in 118 AC, a year which is also marked as the year when Rhaenyra betrothed her older sons to Rhaena and Baela.

Rhaenyra is pregnant with her third child with Daemon, and they introduce their first child Aegon and younger son Viserys. In the books, it is basically fact that naming her first son with Daemon “Aegon” was Rhaenyra’s way to slight Alicent and belittle Aegon II’s supposed claim. The people then had to distinguish between two Aegon’s, and that infuriated Alicent.

The man who greets Rhaenyra and Daemon when they arrive in Kings Landing is Lord Caswell, who is one of her few remaining supporters in the city. He was seen last when Rhaenyra was forced to carry Joffrey up the stairs to Alicent in episode 6. Book readers know that he is important later on so make a mental note of him.

Daemon sniffing Viserys’ cup to check for poison- it’s not confirmed to the viewer if it was poisoned or not but his look of suspicion to Rhaenyra says so much. Even if it isn’t poisoned, Daemon and Rhaenyra can see that these people would stoop that low if they needed to. In the books Viserys’ death was left unclear, but there was accusations of him being slowly poisoned by Alicent. By the end of the episode we see that was untrue, and in fact it appears that Viserys willed himself to death.

Alicent truly is cursed with horrible children, that is evident. But she is also a bit of a snake, leveraging her children in the eyes of the public by shaming the maid Dyana into staying quiet. She does this by paying her off, gaslighting her into secrecy, and making her drink a tea to prevent pregnancy. Alicent obviously expresses her anger over the situation as a mother, but it equally comes across like the anger of a queen mother who is afraid of her sons behavior threatening her position. She can see that her son is a horrible person to sit the throat, but she would still see him on the throne over Rhaenyra.

We can see upon Rhaenyra’s arrival that they have altered the entire feel and look of Kings Landing to reflect the faith of the seven which is a far cry from all the Targaryen paintings we saw previously. Alicent has bought into the faith and has seen the advantage is claiming she is being led by a higher power; she can use that to excuse her actions whenever she needs to.

The scene between Daemon, Rhaenyra and Alicent is incredible. Calling her out for the faith of the seven, and accusing Alicent and Otto of abusing their positions to speak for Viserys is delivered with such disdain. Daemon in particular is furious and fed up because while we know he is defending his wife, he is first and foremost Viserys’ brother. The man he has spent his entire life trying to impress and gain the love of us being kept in an almost comatose state by the very people he warmed Viserys of in episode 1.

A small detail - the Kingsguard uniforms now have the Hightower Symbol on them indicating the power the Hightowers are slowly leeching from the throne.

Jace and Luke are still so charming. But I cannot accept Jace’s hair.

Seeing Criston crispy Cole makes my blood boil. And the first look of Aemond is wonderful because he is terrifyingly unhinged.

Baela and Rhaena man, those girls are all so stunning.

Rhaenyra and Rhaenys are so great in this scene. It is reminiscent of their first conversation together when Rhaenyra is young and fiery and Rhaenys attempts to reel her in. Years have passed and Rhaenys is confronted with a Rhaenyra who has seen first hand that the realm is not easily accepting of a female heir. Secondly, Rhaenys has seen her married family sucked into the vortex and unlike their first conversation where Rhaenyra insisted she would prove Rhaenys wrong about her acceptance as heir, she is truly grasping at straws to make the situation right and retain her support.

This conversation also confirms that Rhaenys was not in on Daemon and Rhaenyra’s plot like some people suggested. Rhaenyra offering her children to wed Baela and Rhaena seems to be her only bargaining chip when her back is against the wall. She is still slowly realizing that despite her marriage to Daemon her children’s illegitimacy will plague her forever and her fathers support is being completely eliminated so long as Otto and Alicent keep him uninvolved.

Rhaenyra and Viserys’ discussing the song of ice and fire was beautiful acting by both actors but especially Emma D’Arcy. Here Rhaenyra is speaking candidly about the repercussions of Viserys naming her heir. Admitting that her life has become painful and heavy since he named her. She is burdened with this weight and her father did not set her up with a strong enough claim. Now he is about to die and her only true ally will be gone, it’s little wonder she is upset.

Viserys referring to Rhaenyra as his only child is a HUGE thing to admit. His love of Aemma is so strong that I’m his delirious state he still believes Rhaenyra to be his one true child with the woman he loved.

Viserys’ model of Kings Landing now has cobwebs over it, which is great symbolism for his rule.

The wounds on Viserys’ body are so great and Otto’s presence is clearly to show us that he is not overseeing him as a supportive heir, but only to check up on how soon his death will be. He continues to medicate him with milk of the poppy, even doing it himself. When Viserys refuses the cup, Otto can only confirm that Rhaenyra’s presence is what makes Viserys defiant and resistant to the Hightower’s influence.

Viserys showing up in the hall to put an end to Otto’s politicing was AMAZING!!! As was the looks on Otto and Vaemond’s faces when he appears in the door. Viserys has disappointed Rhaenya (and the viewer) so many times by staying silent, but this moment I was so proud of him. “I will sit the Thrown today” YEAH YOU WILL!

DAEMON HELPING VISERYS UP MADE ME CRY AND WHEN HE PUT THE CROWN OK HIS HEAD OH MY GOD. But no actually, for all those in the back who still believe all Daemon wants is the throne for himself, watch this scene again.

When Viserys brings Rhaenys up to speak I was fist pumping, oh my lord. To watch the Hightowers just LOSE was crazy because you know that shit is about to go down. When Vaemond begins to resist the Kings ruling and stands up for himself my heart was pumping. A credit to the acting in this scene because his anger was palpable. Daemon egging him on then beheading him was just insane.

Rhaenys standing in the hall while they stitched Vaemond back together was heavy. Now I know why there are no dragons in this episode, all the CGI is amazing and no doubt expensive. Rhaenys has watched her entire life fall apart over the course of the first eight episodes and who can she blame for it other than Rhaenyra and her cousin Viserys? Her refusal to help Rhaenyra in their first convo make the moment in the hall that much sweeter.

Viserys is such an optimist but seriously he is so in the dark about the reality of his house. When he removes his mask I was so saddened by his humility and his desperate attempt to fix the situation between them all. The poor guy wanted peace so badly for not just the love of his family but for the safety and security of the realm. I felt for him so terribly, Paddy was simply amazing.

Rhaenyra and Alicent are so terribly heartbreaking. But you can tell that the influences of so many others in that room will not allow them to come to pass. It is all for the sake and love of the court and Otto will not allow it to happen. Beyond that now, their soiled understanding of the children and their roles has been totally ruined and despite headway between Alicent and Rhaenyra, it’s being swiftly undone by their kids.

Jace defending his betrothed is so sad - because those two idiot Targaryen brothers are terrifyingly unstable. Jace knows Aemond is the stronger of the two and I think everyone in the room is figuring out that he is dangerously unhinged.

“Beware the beast between the boards.” Thanks Helaena we shall!

Jace dancing with Helaena shows how Rhaenyra raised him to be such a gentleman. And for one brief moment, Viserys gets what he wants and then it’s all over and the charade must end.

When the pig is presented in front of Aemond - how did I know this was going to happen. He is TERRIFYING. His face off with Daemond was a thing a beauty when you know what is to come.

They are doing a wonderful job making me question if Alicent truly wants Rhaenyra to come back or not. Their last scene together in this episode was actually very touching and came across genuine, so I’m happy for the fact that especially within Alicent, a fondness, love, what have you - it’s still there.

Promo shots it appeared that Daemon was meeting with the white worm but now we know that was actually not Daemon, but another one of her spies! Brilliant.

Alicent gives Viserys his cup to drink and begins soothing him, but he thinks he is answering Rhaenyra’s question from earlier in the episode. Viserys thinks he is speaking with Rhaenyra and answers her question. He ultimately tells Alicent of The Song of Ice and Fire thinking it is Rhaenyra - and THIS IS WHAT STARTS THE ENTIRE FUCKING SHOW THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS SCENE ARE ENORMOUS. Will discuss in detail on a later date.

When Viserys literally wills himself to death my heart was so broken, THEN he has to go and shed a single tear before his last breath and whispering “My love” when he leaves to go find Aemma in the afterlife…. Man. Paddy deserves an award for this episode, he was beyond fantastic.

[trashlie]

I saw a theory about Mr. Kim being Kousuke's real father. Makes me want to throw up. And then I saw another comment on that thread how the real thing that would break Kou is realizing that Nol is no longer his brother.

And omg ew? Sang Chul would be??

And I'm never getting over Nol's plastered smile. The sneer. The humans suck line.

The "Convince Me" line.

Girl I'm going thru it.

You totally called it on the theories.

The WORST kind of "OH GOD I KNEW IT" weeks have been happening for me when it comes to ILY lmaoooo and I NEED QUIMCHEE TO GIVE ME A BREAK AND LET ME CATCH MY BREATH!!!!!!!!!!!

Gonna drop my thoughts below the read more! Spoilers spoilers spoilers!!!!!!!!!!

When Elle and I talked about the "Rand isn't Kousuke's father" theory on the fourth episode of our podcast I even talked about how as much as I don't want the theory to be true for Kousuke's sake, narratively it's SO compelling and it just makes SO MUCH SENSE. I remember the first time I read the theory, too, how initially I was like "no way, this feels really out there" but it just stuck with me. I couldn't let it go, I kept going back to that panel, the "you're the sole heir" speech bubble over Nol's face and I think I've just always felt that it meant something, you know? That quimchee would NOT have done that if it didn't mean something, if we weren't supposed to read into it, if it wasn't meant to be the earliest of foreshadowing of this theory.

And to have it actually confirmed!!!!! Just has me SCREAMING but absolutely anticipating what it means for everyone!!!! Because not only does it mean everything Kousuke has ever worked for - the only thing he's ever had to his name, the only career option he's ever had - is taken away from him and thrust to someone who may not even want it, someone who wants to be as far away from this family and this coldblooded, bloodthirsty rivalry as he can get.

Neither of them get any reprieve.

Kousuke never had any other option, and is left with nothing.

Nol will likely be thrust into the heart of everything he wants to excuse himself from, everything he's come to resent and loathe and GOD it's insane to see how it's all unfolding, after all this time!!!!!!!!

I think, too, in thinking about the fact that Nol isn't even Kousuke's brother is that it means re-examining the rawness of 212 and what it means for Kousuke, who believes that he got none of the good traits of Rand that he sees in Nol, the good parts that he's never been privileged enough to see in Rand himself, and that he was left with only the worst parts of him - the cold man with his back turned to him. But it's worse, because none of that was his.

(Please know that I am saying this SO VERY LOOSELY, in the sense of how I imagine Kousuke is thinking this. I'm not a fan of the "Rand suspected Kousuke wasn't his son and that's why he was so cold with him" theories. Frankly, I think they're disgusting and it shows an interesting bias in people in how they perceive biological family to be more worthy over, say, adopted family. I think it's very evident that Rand loves both of his sons and has done the best within his means, but has been dealing with an incredibly controlling tyrant of a wife who has ensured that he had little chance to provide the nurturing he wanted to, who ensured that there was a gap between him and Kousuke so that Kousuke would be forever chasing after him, because she needed him to stay focused on her goal. I refuse to humor conversation that implies Rand loves or favors Nol more because that's his biological son and because Kousuke is, currently suspected to be, the son of a Kim, he has less love for him. That's a disgusting mindset. Biological love does not make someone inherently love their child more. Yui herself proves this. And in that same vein, not being Kousuke's biological father does not excuse Rand's part in Kousuke's neglect and that it was the commodification of his love that has factored into how Kousuke has come to view love in this transactional manner and why he struggles to see his father's true love for what it is. Regardless of whose genetic material fathered him, Rand is the man who raised Kousuke as his son, the man Kousuke saw as his father, and therefore he is Kousuke's father.)

Kousuke has modeled himself after his father in every way, tried so hard to emulate him, to be someone who will make his father proud, who can earn his affection and feels like he hasn't succeeded at that yet - and to find out that the man he has spent his entire life emulating is not, in fact, his father? Is going to CRUSH him. Not because it changes the fact that it was Rand who raised him and Rand to whom Kousuke looked up, but because it's yet another lie in a series of Yui's lies, yet another lie that she has used to manipulate him, to mold him into her pawn, to create him into a likeness of something of her own desire, rather than ever allow him to be his own person.

She lied to him about his father. She whispered paranoia to him about his brother his brother's mother. She made him believe that everyone is out to get them, to tear them down, that because they are better than everyone else he can trust no one. She used these tactics to isolate him and played upon the paranoia and fear that she created and instilled upon him so that when he did rebel and stray from her, when he did try to be his own person and have friends and a life of his own, she could pull him back to where she felt he belonged, at her side. She smothered and suffocated him and manipulated and lied to him and nothing she has done to or for him has ever been honest and even his father is a lie. Even his goals and motivation is a lie.

I know a lot of people still hate Kousuke but it fucks me up. It has me choked up, to think of what it must be like to be him, and to have this bombshell thrust upon you, that everything you believed has been a lie, that your mother has been manipulating you for your whole life, she's been drugging you, you have finally grasped the gravity of the harm you have caused using the justification she has equipped you with. To come to the realization that everything you ever justified was never truly justifiable, that you caused harm that cannot be undone.

How do you come back from that?

How do you deal with that?

And then, to find out that the man you've believed was your father isn't. That the only person who ever offered you unconditional love, whose relationship you've destroyed isn't even your brother, and has no reason to ever turn to look your way ever again.

Kousuke was right. He has no brother.

And it devastates me lmao ;____________;

And I do really think that it means his father is Gun Kim. All of the comparisons to Sangchul and Kousuke have haunted me as much as this theory.

BUT MAN IT'S JUST SO MUCH QUIMCHEE IS JUST OUT HERE WITH A BODY COUNT. MA'AM. SLOW DOWN I CAN'T KEEP UP. Nol is on a warpath and I need him to CHILL.

Actually no you know what was the FUNNIEST thing to me about Nol and his humans suck line? THE FACT THAT MY GIRL SHINAE IS OUT HERE BLUSHING.

GIRL. /GIRL/

She is DOWN BAD. SO FUCKING BAD. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i can't stand her I love her she's a whole hot mess express I really need to gather myself and drop some thought dump posts over here finally because generally my reaction to all of these episodes lately has been [SCREAMING CAT]

i'm two for two on "dark theories i didn't want to be true but knew in my gut are" and listen. I DON'T KNOW IF I LIKE IT ;_______; HOWLING

[horizon-verizon]

what do you think of this post. i think people should ship what they want but this fandom cannot stand opinions that differ from theirs.

https://www.tumblr.com/livinginafantasysposts/726238416723935233

Going to the link you provided, the original author (lagosbratzdoll) is criticizing the JacexSara Snow ship for the shipper's racism:

They say it'll [including Sara Snow in the show] deepen Jace’s character and make him “interesting”, whatever that means. The problem with this assertion is that Jace is already plenty interesting, he led the war councils while his mother grieved, and he recruited the blacks' most important allies. Allies who remained steadfast even after his mother's and his own demise. Furthermore, Jace has existing relationships in his life that the show could explore to delve into his connection with bastardy. Three of whom are canonically Black, by the way. So, the question arises: what unique perspective or insight can Sara Snow provide to Jace's struggle with his bastard status that Nettles, Addam, and Alyn cannot?

When the OP asked what made Sara so enticing or "interesting", more than Nettles and the other dragonseeed as well as Baela, there was no salient answer in the comments. Or there were just denials. And OP has made points. Including this:

but now you cannot go five minutes in Jace or Baela’s tag without seeing someone wish they'd include Sara Snow in the show.

You: "i think people should ship what they want but this fandom cannot stand opinions that differ from theirs."

My questions to you, anon are:

What is with people trying to overwhelm and disrupt the hype shippers have for Baela and Jace in particular?

With these two supposed to be betrothed to each other in canon and continue to be so in the show, why is it that there is a change in how people see Sara Snow and Jace and Baela after we see the Velaryons and dragon twins' actors are Black?

Why is it that there is such an overwhelming intercession on the online JacexBaela shipping from JacexSara shippers as opposed to ships with white/white-adjacent couples?

Why is it that with such stronger evidence for Jace and Baela being romantic over Sara's very existence much less the ship, that the Sara Snow x Jace ship is as popular as it is?

Sara Snow is a character, in F&B, who Mushroom brings in to add intrigue, and he was never there to witness such a thing happening, so how could he know about this girl and witnessed Jace fall for her?! And the other thing is the implications of Sara Snow being Jace's "Jeyne Westerling". Unlike Robb Stark & Jeyne, Jace & Sara are presented by Mushroom and real shippers as true and closely-bonded lovers. Robb married Jeyne because he wanted to honor her and not have bastards. It was not lovey-dovey. Narratively, Baela was so dedicated to Jace (and just fierce all on her own) that she wanted to stay and fight with him at Dragonstone or follow him. For all the desire for a couple who desires and is devoted to each other, it's funny how Sara x Jace shippers aren't impressed enough with Baela. So shippers of Sara and Jace are going off of pure conjecture and desire more than other ships/shippers. This would be fine, if not for the change in actors coming with a higher support for a character that doesn't seem to exist.

Before HotD aired with its black Velaryons and dragon twins (and I've looked around at dates) there was very little hype for Sara Snow even as a person, bc there was literally no evidence--not even suggestive--for her existence besides Mushroom's unsupported say-so AND it was understood that Jace wouldn't even endanger his family and himself or hurt Baela by endangering their Velaryon alliance. Especially when his brother dies and there is no heir to Driftmark aside from Joff (a whittling-down of heirs). The blacks needed the Velaryons even after Rhaneyra dies (Alyn and Daenaera)!

It is totally antithetical to Jace's needs short-term and long-term needs to set aside his betrothal to Baela.

We have to remember that he and his two brothers have been suspected as bastards and likely treated accordingly if people could get away with it. For more than 10 years! Rhaenyra had to essentially flee to Dragonstone to get away and provide a quieter, freer life for herself and her family as well as actively "practice" and get in the groove for ruling. He would be anxious to prove how he is fit to follow his mother after she dies and rule Westeros. And like Jon/unlike Robb Stark, bc of that niggling bastardry claim, he would be more motivated to not have bastards of his own or do possibly introduce an innocent, less-able-to-take-care-of herself-girl into an incoming war. (Jenny of Oldstones doesn't count bc she was proven real through her interactions with courtiers, Prince Duncan's parent was not female and set against, his parent was not usurped, there was no war, nor was Duncannever suspected a bastard. He could afford it).

I mean, it's supported by what Jace says here ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

He has lived physically and emotionally close to Baela all his life, and considering this need to consolidate power as well as his contracting his trust towards mostly family, it's not likely that he just trusts any person he isn't likely to get aid from. Cregan Stark was the lord and liable to help Rhaneyra bc he just imprisoned and ousted his uncle to get his Winterfell seat. Supporting Rhaenyra helps him, and this lubed them both up for a closer bond.

It is way more likely that Jace, rather than show!Aemond, was the devoted son trying to actually help and protect his family by reading "philosophies" and presenting himself as a capable ruler. I think that it is dumb of the writers to then flip this show of loyalty to one's family into Aemond using it to show disloyalty to his own and not emphasize Jacaerys' own development. Aemond even left his mother, sister, and brother all to basically fend for themselves in two opportunities to join Daeron or fly to KL and fight Rhaenyra, Daemon, or any black who he would happen to see. Even though he was the one to order Criston Cole to march their army to KL so he could also confront the blacks. He specifically states that going south to Daeron and grouping up was "craven" and cowardly! In this one way, Aemond is Jace's foil and it emphasizes Jace's loyalty and devotion and Aemond's self-serving ambition, even though both have that desire to show their military worth. One works for unity, the other for individual glory and disunity. Jace ios the one to actively came up with effective plans and arrangements for the blacks, as OP stated. It shows his intelligence, care, and concern for protecting his family as well as his mindfulness towards bastardy. We're supposed to see the irony of this suspected bastard using the bastard phobia made against him for their own benefit. (Even though there were two traitors, Rhaenyra still depended on these dragon riders to intimidate/fight against any would-be greens and their armies. One of which is responsible [Addam Velaryon/of Hull] for at least pushing back Daeron and Lord Hightower's forces even with his own death. This event more showed how deep in paranoia & blood purist Rhaenyra was, not how dumb or incompetent Jace was.)

And Baela is not a bad person, merely self-confident and a Targ. Show!Baela is Black, and there has been no standoffishness towards her book character before the show besides the usual misogyny towards self-confident girls and Targ women. She has done nothing wrong to anyone, and has only displayed bravery until presumedly the day she died and set aside by history.

So from my standpoint, it looks like the motivation behind thinking Baela x Jace as less appealing or "interesting" than Jace x Sara is that Jace x Sara can undermine his relationship with Baela, his ties to the Velaryons and their alliance, and separate Jace's devotion to his family and reduce any tie to his Targ identity. This is definitely not what this character would likely be drawn in by if he ever did meet a Sara Snow who he might be at least sexually attracted to.

Just as making Rhaenyra not want to imprison Otto bc of a damned page from a woman who tried to get said sons killed, Jacaerys allowing himself to not only marry someone other than his betrothed siphons out his intelligence, unique sense of self-assertiveness and responsibility.

Other Ships I Wish Were Not as Shipped Exist, Why, and are Really the TV Shows' Faults

See, I talk about people saying one shouldn't ship ANYTHING in ASoIaF/GoT/HotD/Fire & Blood HERE, where I argue that shipping is people presenting political and social taboo/dynamics, i,e, a particular narrative they are fascinated with.

It's not just about what one thinks should be reality. However, for some people, it is and some ships gather more…bigoted people than other ships. Rhaenicent is one of those ships. There are some genuinely good or at least self-aware Rhaenicent shippers, but the most vocal ones tend to be misogynist and think themselves feminists when they are actually saying that Rhaenyra should grant Alicent all sorts of graces and expect nothing in return bc Alicent is a feminine goddess who looks out for "the realm". Some call her "mannish" or the "man" of the relationship. Most are tradcaths and transphobic (Emma D'Arcy). Most hate Targs and Valyrian customs, esp citing their hatred against incest…meanwhile, their own ship is incestuous, and even the Faith they admire and see their Catholism in at one time had a High Septon vocally denounce a Hightower lord marrying and having a relationship with his dead father's wife, his own stepmother--Samnatha Tarly. On the specific claim of incest. Later, when this Septon died, they were finally allowed to marry by the next one--their influence had grown enough or stayed its Hightower self, assumedly, as well over the years.

Jonsa is another ship that mostly has misogynists and praisers of "soft femininity". Sansa becomes a totally different creature in their eyes, and Arya also gets interpreted as "mannish", even having "internalized misogyny" for not being as "girly" as Sansa. Jon, like Rhaenyra, is also totally reduced and recharacterization to make Sansa this higher kind of feminine goddess through the chivalric narrative canon!Sansa is actually growing out of bc it has led to her many losses, including her own innocence! Jon doesn't even like (as in attracted to) "girly" girls who cannot even attempt to physically defend themselves! His favorite sister is Arya and Sansa has dismissed him for his bastardry several times! Because they think he will become some sort of great leader, even King Beyond the Wall, and Sansa will be Queen in the North or some jazz, they believe that this version of "Jon" as a "knight" is perfect for their "delicate princess" Sansa.

Daemon x Nettles

I'm a Daemyra shipper and I do not think Daemon x Nettles is either a canon or good ship in of itself, and the material in F&B that wants us to think they were sexual or romantic uses misogynist and classism to present Nettles as Daemon's lover AS WELL AS not his lover. But always it's logic that is against Nettles' true, brave heart, and Daemon's fidelity to Rhaenyra, despite him choosing to die for her instead of just leaving Rhaenyra behind and vocalizing hatred toward Mysaria's for deceiving her. And though it is not my passionate ship like the Daemyra one, I definitely think Jace x Baela makes way more sense than Jace x Sara Snow. And Nettles doesn't need to "steal" Rhaneyra's man to actually dominate Rhaneyra for her blood purity or to be an impressive girl, and this would not be a healthy relationship (she was 17, Daemon 49-50). If they seriously consider grooming wrong and believe Daemon groomed Nettles, then they shouldn't enthusiastically ship Nettles with Daemon.

Conclusion

Some ships just do not make sense or are totally antithetical to the arcs and personalities of the original characters. They are more making wish-fulfillment fanons struggling to be canon so they can generate antipathy against those shippers/characters/storylines that should really be appreciated for the nuance they provide. Instead of vacuuming out nuance to replace them with fairytale, bigoted, and flat narratives. And so they should be put into skeptical investigation instead of just flat-out "accepted", like how some artists have purposefully drawn the dragon twins out of their family portraiture of the blacks.

EDIT (8/22/23)

It's also funny how--with the examples of other ships--when it's something race-related or when some people in the fandom want to protest against such intrusions and the subsequent denials of intrusions it tends to be about certain PoC or interracial ships. AND that it defaults as "everyone has the right to ship/draw/etc however they want!" when someone brings up race more than ships with gender or sexuality or class switching. Hm...

[catofadifferentcolor]

Terrible Fic Idea #56: Game of Thrones, but with 50% more incest

As I've said before, I tend to go in for the Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son theory because it makes Ned Stark into an absolutely fascinating character - and seems to fit the evidence we have. That being said, unless there was extensive written documentation in The Tower of Joy, Ned has no proof that his sister's son is a Targaryen or that she ever had sexual relationship with a Targaryen. One can make reasonable assumptions based on location and circumstance, but that's all they are. Assumptions.

Or: What if the reason Jon Snow looks all Stark is because that's what he is: 100% Stark?

Aka: The Bastard of Winterfell Fic

Bear with me:

One of the very few things we know about Brandon Stark is that he was absolutely not shy about taking what he wanted, which included women. This could mean he was a great seducer of highborn ladies, but it could easily mean he was a HotD Aegon II-style rapist whose victims had no recourse because of Brandon's position as Heir of Winterfell.

If we go for the latter reading, it's not that far of a stretch to assume that one of Brandon's victims might have been his own sister, Lyanna. For all she was a Lord Paramount's daughter, ASOIAF has shown repeatedly position means nothing with regards to gendered violence - and, with Viserra Targaryen, suggests that Lyanna might even be named the instigator if she came forward.

Add to that very little about Lyanna's abduction narrative makes any sense. Even assuming she was complicit in her kidnapping, it doesn't make any sense for a man so apparently taken by a woman he'd shun his wife for her that he'd wait a year to abduct her. And considering it would be near impossible to carry out a correspondence without at least the Maesters on either end knowing about it... Rhaegar was either incredibly lucky, or they planned extensively well in advance, or something else was going on. Add to that Lyanna's main complaint about Robert was that he'd never be faithful to her after which she's said to run off with a married man and things just fail to add up.

Just imagine it:

Brandon Stark is born just a little too wild. The handsome, charming heir to the North, there is very little he wants that he cannot get one way or another - and if he has to resort to force to get some of it, well, who is his father going to believe?

Lyanna Stark is born with that same wildness, to her detriment. After all, what is acceptable in Westeros for men is inexcusable for women - though growing up in a household with very few high-ranking women, this may not have been immediately evident. The North doesn't treat their women as delicate Southron flowers, but there are still limits to what is considered acceptable. She is loved, but she not more loved than Brandon, and when the abuse starts there is no one Lyanna can turn to for help.

Ned, after all, is in the Eyrie by this point, and Benjen is too young.

Brandon has been abusing Lyanna sexually for 1-2 years by the time the Tourney at Harrenhal rolls around. Her betrothal to Robert should be an escape, except he appears to be another man who will use her just like her brother, and few would even consider his actions wrong because that's how highborn men are expected to treat their wives.

The only positive from this experience from this experience is getting to see Ned again, but given that he's the one pushing for her betrothal, Lyanna doesn't trust him enough to tell him the truth.

She also gets to meet Rhaegar, who to her eyes appears as everything a prince and husband should be. Lyanna doesn't fall in love with Rhaegar, but does imagine him to be her savior - if only she had the opportunity to tell him about Brandon.

Which Lyanna does, when they go to Riverrun for his wedding to Catelyn Tully. She runs into Rhaegar during one of the many rides she takes trying to convince herself that it's possible to escape Brandon and the long reach of her father.

After she spills all, Rhaegar takes Lyanna to the Tower of Joy to keep her safe while he takes action against her abuse... only for Westeros to assume the worst of him and war to break out. (After all, he can do nothing for his own mother, but for someone experiencing the exact same horror...?)

Canon proceeds apace.

Lyanna dies in childbirth, having realized too late she was pregnant with her abuser's child to be rid of it. Perhaps she even orchestrated her death, seeing Ned's banners and wrongly assuming that he was there to take her back to Brandon, never realizing a war had raged because of her disappearance.

Ned believes her son to be Rhaegar's and claims the child to avoid Robert putting him to death as dragonspawn. Never suspecting the abuse Brandon put Lyanna through, he can think of no other reason his sister might run off with the Crown Prince.

Absolutely nothing changes as far as canon goes. In all honestly, my plot bunny runs out when it comes what to do with this background once we reach the events of the books/show. Maybe certain parties claim he's Rhaegar's son regardless and the truth never comes out? Maybe Bran tells him part of the truth circa season 8 and he's placed as the new Lord Paramount/King of the North as Brandon's son, not Ned's? Maybe Lyanna leaves behind dairies that make their way somehow to Jon after he's grown? Who knows? I certainly don't.

Bonuses include: 1) Lyanna - bravely, tragically - going to her father after Brandon starts touching her sexually and being shot down - slapped even - for daring to make such a disgusting accusation and certainly she just misunderstood what was happening. Lyanna loses all faith in men and justice at that time and, no matter how hard she tries to fight Brandon off, her injuries are just written off as boisterousness and at least half of her wildness is acting out the only way she can; 2) Even as Lyanna's ghost haunt the narrative, she's denied voice - her story is always twisted by the men telling it, so her tragedy isn't even the tragedy that actually happened to her and instead reinforces the patriarchy she railed against; and 3) The truth, if it comes out, never being believed by any significant fraction of society - some say it's a poor Lannister attempt to lessen their own sin, some say it's a Dornish attempt to discredit Lyanna, other's say it's an attempt to deny Jon's "rightful" claim to the Iron Throne - just as Lyanna was never believed in life.

And that's all I have - more of a darker, alternative take on why Lyanna ran off than a true plot bunny; a hopping off point, if you will. As always, feel free to adopt this bun, just link back if you do anything with it.

Other Jon Snow Headcanons: Aelor the Accursed | Aegon the Adopted | Aegon the Undying | Aegon the Unyielding | Aemon the Adventurous | Baelor the Brave | Bastard of Winterfell | Daemon the Destroyer | Daena the Dreamer | Daeron the Desired | Dyanna the Defiant | Jon Whitefyre | King of the Ashes | Lady Arryn | Lady Baratheon | Lady Lannister | Lady Stark | Lord of the Dance | Prince Consort | Prince of Summerhall | Queen Mother | Rhaegar the Righteous | River Queen | Shiera Snowbird

More Terrible Fic Ideas

[alicentsgf]

just saw someone in the alicent tag saying what if alicent wasnt jealous of d/emon but jealous of rh/enyra bcus alicent wanted d/emon like people want to ignore the actual narrative so bad!

yeah not the first time i've seen that suggestion and it makes me laugh lol

i think people got that from fire and blood because of the comment about daemon maybe taking alicents virginity. but thats just mushroom being mushroom and gyldayn trying to explain the rivalry between daemon and otto but being a terrible historian as usual - as if theres not every reason to logically consider daemon was just mad otto was sitting in his seat (as Hand) and keeping viserys ear and otto consequently saw daemon as a threat to his ambitions, his family, and the realm. as we see in the show.

theres no evidence the show indulges the rumour. both daemon and alicent are clearly more preoccupied with rhaenyra than each other. they only interact via rhaenyra really. at the most alicent seems not to have any issue with daemon when shes a kid? possibly because rhaenyra speaks positively of him to her. when daemon uses her to mock otto at the tourney in ep 1 she initially smiles at him but if thats.... what people are basing this off?? big stretch. its an honour that the heir to the throne asked for her favour its not crazy that she was genuinely pleased. doesnt mean she wanted to fuck him. and yeah she was angry when she thought that rhaenyra slept with daemon.... and she remained angry when she found out it was actually criston... which would suggest she doesnt actually care who it was rhaenyra slept with. she cares that she did it at all. which... if we're accusing her of jealousy... she wasnt jealous because she wanted daemon thats for sure.

also can we ask what alicent wanting daemon does for the narrative? like fuck all... really. thats why they didnt include it lmao.

[fincalinde]

Lan Xichen!

THANK YOU for the pity ask! Can't believe I got the Nie bro Hanguang-jun triple bonus combo first. (I don't mind being asked about any character, it's just funny.)

a song that reminds me of them

The obligatory PHILDEL is Funeral Bell because it's one that's more LXC alone than Xiyao. Don't get me started on the Xiyao ones.

And it rings in the day And it rings in the evening Oh, I could pray but it won't stop you leaving Shadow in black, you are grim from your reaping Oh, can't you spare just a day for the weeping?

what they smell like

Sandalwood! But he spends so much time at Golden Carp Tower after JGY ascends that he often smells of their incenses too. Probably also smells of clean air and pines when he's just come from the mountain/been flying. Of the entire cast he's probably the one who smells the best, let's be real.

an otp

ctrl+c, ctrl+v my JGY answer, but it's Xiyao. I don't think the text indicates that they are secret lovers, but their intimacy and affection reads as romantic to me, and I think had circumstances been more kind that is the relationship both would prefer whether or not either of them has consciously considered it. I think they're also both very happy with their friendship as it is, so perhaps longing but not necessarily pining. They see each other constantly, after all. And I will leave a link to this again to illustrate why I believe they're a strong partnership who could have rebuilt their relationship had NHS not intervened.

a notp

I already took a cricket bat to Xicheng's balls, so let's say Nielan. There's no evidence in the text that their initial relationship is anything other than a friendship between two young clan leaders(/leader and heir), and by the time the war is properly underway they're already drifting apart in terms of how their respective worldviews are being tested by their circumstances. You yourself did the ultimate breakdown of their relationship, and while there's certainly affection it's hardly a meeting of the minds.

I will just also add a tart observation that for all fandom's supposed plethora of ace representation, NMJ the canonical ace is almost never depicted as such.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

I am doubling up here quite a bit as I've already covered LXC's friendship with NMJ and his relationship with LWJ, so as a third option I'll say I find his relationship with his mother interesting. Going to hold off on more details as some absolute monster sent me an ask about her and it would be better served there. Suffice to say I have thoughts.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Himbo LXC has been slated enough by finer minds than mine, but OK, I'll sharpen my axe for his equally frustrating cousin, service top LXC. I would genuinely be interested if someone could point me to anything in the text that indicates LXC has any desire to 'serve' JGY and dote on him either in the bedroom or outside it, because I don't see a shred of evidence that he's harbouring any secret yearnings of that nature.

Consistently throughout the entirety of MDZS, JGY is the one catering to LXC's needs and we never see either of them express the remotest dissatisfaction with this arrangement. Yes the narrative isn't focused directly on them and all sorts of things might be happening in the gaps, but that puts 'service top' LXC in the category of speculative at best.

Actually I think I'm bending over backwards to categorise it as speculative. At minimum there are far more plausible ways for him to express his romantic and sexual affections if given further opportunity. We actually see a fair bit of LXC and how he interacts with JGY, and we know how they behave when relaxed together. There's nothing in any of their scenes that betrays any kind of anxiety about wanting to protect JGY, to wait on him, to dote on him. We can speculate that LXC at times yearns to relinquish the persona of clan leader, because he is a human being and no human being wants to always live inside their role, and I'm sure there are times when he would like to express his emotions more freely. But it doesn't follow that doing so would open the floodgates on some suppressed desire to serve and 'spoil' JGY.

I've written about this before, but LXC is already meeting JGY's needs. He likes JGY and he respects and supports him. There's also no indication that JGY secretly wants to be taken care of and doted on. Just, no indication at all that either of them is dissatisfied with their existing dynamic, which does not consist of spoilt JGY and protective servile LXC.

As always, if this is what people enjoy then that's great. Fandom is fun and we are all here for different reasons but ultimately to enjoy ourselves. My frustration is that it's like trawling the Atlantic with a tea strainer trying to find content that's more in line with the novel.

the position they sleep in

Official Lan Position but considering he's a little more relaxed than LWJ, my speculation is that there have been times in his life when he hasn't lain down to sleep like a vampire in a coffin. Like after a while of being in hiding with JGY in Not Yunping Please God, Why Would JGY Travel Back To Yunmeng Or Anywhere In Hubei And Why Would LXC Flee Towards Hubei Not To Mention Jiangsu Borders Shandong Like Come On I Think We All Know JGY Travelled South Out Of Shandong Towards Or Into Jiangsu But Even If He Didn't Why Would He Ever Go Back To Yunmeng

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

My ATLA AU is still my fave, shameless shameless, but to vary things a little I do like the idea of an AU influenced by HDM. The problem is that I've read a couple before back in the mists of time and the dæmon choices were baffling. JGY with a fox and LXC with a deer I'm on board with though, and it would be an interesting challenge to synthesise something out of the canon dynamics while incorporating all the Dust and Magisterium stuff.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I'm a basic bitch who does love the robe he wears in the CQL Xiyao doing their thing right in front of NMJ's salad scene. Just generally approve of the choice they made to introduce colour to LXC's wardrobe to differentiate him. It's something I pinch for my fic (pls cancel me now for being hypocritical about purism). Oh but I also love him with hair loopies in fanart, this is noncanonical but I see what you did there with all the official art, LWJ is the lead so he has to have the sexy bits of hair outside the ribbon even though the more austere style given to LXC would be a better match for his character. I reject this technically extracanonical material and substitute my own personal preferences in a further display of shameless hypocrisy. I regret nothing.

[yanderefairyangel]

Do you think that the fandom is unable to see through 3H's aesthetic of deep because of a lack of critical analysis ?

Not so sure about this cause there is plenty of 3H analysis however, I would say that some of them don't really go in depth and that can lead them to miss some point. Like, recently there was one video focusing on Marianne, Bernie and Mercie. And while entertaining there was many things I felt disappointed not to here cause it's showing why despite the 3 being very good characters there is still something missing.

Take Marianne, for example. When talking about how Marianne sees herself as a monster because she bears the crest of Maurice, even though the video showed the dialogue of the paralogue... it never mentionned how Marianne fighting Maurice is her overcoming her demons. Maurice is the monster that made her feel so bad, self loathing, the being that made her feel non human, monstruous. Defeating him was freed Marianne from this alienating feeling. However is the one element that weaken this whole narrative : it's that Marianne's view on herself is not challenge. There is no character telling her that she isn't a monster, that her bloodline doesn't make her one, that she is her own self, that she shouldn't let her crest determine her, that she doesn't have to consider herself responsible for Maurice just because they happen to have a similar bloodline. In her paralogue, she brings up Miklan's transformation. That should be evidence enough, afterall in the Fodlan universe everyone is likely to have a crest passed on but anyway : if she Marianne is a monster because of her blood, so is the entierty of Fodlan because every living being has a bit of monstruosity inside of them. And it's not linked to blood, it's linked to human being able to do good as well as bad. Miklan turning into monster as nothing to do with the Crest (since he doesn't have any) so that should have been pointed out that even someone without a Crest can be a monster and in Miklan's case him turning literaly into a monster is more him embracing the appareance of the creature he was from the moment Sylvain was named the heir in his stead : a monster. He beat his younger brother and tried to kill him several times, treated people and women in particular worse then dirt, killed, stole etc. He was already a monster before he becae one. Marianne is nothing like that because of how sweet and kind she is yet no freaking body will tell her that she isn't a monster, that nothing about her is monstrous, that it is people who are stupid for judging her without trying to know her, so her defeating Maurice, her demons isn't about her realizing she was wrong this whole time... but that she was right, she was indeed a monster and defeating Maurice magically freed her... wow, that conclusion does leave a bitter taste in my mouth

In Mercie's case, the weak part is the fact that you actually need to have her support with Jeritza to know the full story... keep in mind it took a DLC to have Jeritza playable.

And Bernie... well, we all know what weakens Bernie's narrative and it's the fact that the game makes constantly fun of her trauma. I know people keep comparing Alcryst with her and boi can we stop because that's completely wrong ! The only thing Bernadetta and Alcryst have in common is dealing with self loathe. Alcryst is more social and he likes people, complete opposite of Bernie who hates socializing and refuse to leave her room. Alcryst's prime character trait is that he is protective so that actually draws the line with someone dealing with deep messed up psychological issue like Bernie, because Alcryst have the motivation to fight for his cause, to fight back, to express his anger when he is angry and most importantly, his self loathe is still shown as allowing Alcryst to have some benefit : that makes him appreciate people more and even help them dealing with this. Bernie isn't in that state at all and instead the game mocks her. This doesn't feel like a genuine laugh the character gets out of you, it feels like mocking trauma and rather ill spirited humor. So if anything that discourse that has the foundation of "Bernie is better written then Alcryst because her anxiety steems from trauma" can go burn into the deepest pit of the most deadly Volcano of Gradlon because her anxiety steeming from trauma weaken her character instead of strenghening it !

Which is another thing in 3H that people insist is good, every character has a trauma and NO. It's no the presence or lack of trauma that make a character good or deep, it's how the narrative handles it.

So I won't go as far as saying there is nothing deep about 3H (cause that's false) but stuff like that can easliy get overlooked when you don't think about what's presented on screen and most of the time 3H deals with such heavy subject you can drowned into it without thinking about the bigger picture "Ah yes man 3H is soo deep, it deals with trauma, elitism, racism, mental illness" ok, sure, but how does it handle it ?

[butwhatifidothis]

Do you feel that Claude stays true to his Three Houses character in the Azure Gleam route?

Far more so, yes.

Not to say there isn't still hiccups: despite seeing for himself that foreign diplomacy is happening within Faerghus despite Rhea and the Central Church's presence, and despite seeing for himself Crestless individuals rise in the ranks of the Kingdom army despite Rhea and the Central Church being right there, Claude is still clearly under the belief that the Church and Rhea have to go (or more, that's the so-implied-it-might-as-well-have-been-explicitly-said implication he's given in AG). If he were completely in-line with how he was in 3H, he would have changed his opinion once he saw how evidently he was incorrect.

Hell, literally all he needed was Cyril's word in 3H for him to warm up to the idea of him and Rhea not needing to be enemies, so everything he'd see in AG once he sides with Dimitri and Rhea should've damn near made him a believer in comparison lmaooo. Him not having his curiosity - which is what this ultimately stems from - is a problem throughout all of Hopes, not just GW and SB, and its absence is pretty noticeable.

(or more, its deliberate removal is noticeable - it’d be one thing if there was genuinely nothing to stimulate the curiosity, but that’s not what happens here lol)

But other than that, yes, he's far more true to his character. He doesn't side with the one initiating violence, he doesn't sacrifice his allies (however much one sees Randolph as an "ally" outside of semantics - I don't, but clearly the game wanted me to think of him as one), there's no needless """""""sacrifices""""""" of completely innocent lives, he's willing to set aside his suspicions towards Rhea seeing how it's not her, but Edelgard who is causing the most harm to Fodlan and its people and its future currently, he doesn't do stupid shit that only helps Edelgard nor does he regurgitate her rhetoric (outside of minor Church Bad), he's not blindly believing a liar's words with no proof.

As you might've noticed, it's mostly him not doing a lot of things that makes him far more in character more than it is him actually doing things. GW and SB add in so much shit into Hopes!Claude's character that directly goes against 3H!Claude's character, so taking them out of the equation reveals just how, like, easy it would've been to make an acceptable version of Claude for Hopes. AG!Claude is by far and away the most tolerable version of Hopes!Claude, just because for the most part he... doesn't act like Hopes!Claude.

And also, now, mind, I don't think it's really an accomplishment on AG's part - cynical as I've become of Hopes' writing of Claude, the only likely reason he's so drastically different between AG and the rest of the game is because this is where he never has Edelgard as an actual enemy. He thinks she is, but narratively speaking Edelgard is not the one Claude or Dimitri are fighting for the second half of AG - it's Thales, who's made Edelgard little more than a megaphone to shout orders through. By the time Claude enters AG Edelgard is lobotomized, unlike in the other two routes where he's directly opposed to her and ever so coincidentally ends up basically becoming Edel-lite.

There's no need to make Edelgard look better since she's already been properly set up as a Poor Uwu Victim, so all the shit added to Hopes!Claude is no longer needed and are thus erased entirely. You'll notice how Claude is fuckin' no where near as violent and callous and manipulative on AG as he is on the other two routes, and how in fact he's one of the nicest dudes on fuckin' Earth as he

freely gives his best generals (two of which are Roundtable heirs) as well as multiple generic soldiers

freely gives supplies to the Kingdom

risks his own life with not just no prompting from someone else (unlike with Edelgard) but with his active insistence that he do so, during AG's Aillell

all without ever backstabbing Dimitri/Rhea (unlike Edelgard, in SB) or even asking for anything in return

Since there's no propping up Edelgard required for AG, Claude just goes back to being the "pure good guy" he was in 3H (and was described to be in 3H by his OG creator). Like, when I say that it's obvious obvious that Claude was written in Hopes primarily to service Edelgard, I mean it's, like, omega obvious obvious. He's not a piece of shit made to make Edelgard look better in comparison, he's just... Claude lmao

[frustrationinexcelsis]

Having just finished Dark Force Rising, some thoughts:

Leia’s arc with the Noghri was easily my favorite part of this book. Her struggle with the idea of being Darth Vader’s child and heir was very well-written, and that scene where confronts the Noghri with evidence of the Empire’s betrayal and levitates and ignites her lightsaber with the Force is just... perfection.

Mara’s story was also great. I really liked her struggle with her sense of identity -- she’s built her entire self-image around being the Emperor’s Hand and carrying out his missions, his last order, but she’s undeniably developing bonds and priorities outside of that and doesn’t know how to deal with this. Her relationship with Karrde and his crew is especially interesting -- theoretically they should just be a means to an end, but here she is finding herself begging her sworn enemy for help in breaking into a Star Destroyer to bust Karrde out of prison not because it helps her nominal goals any, but because she feels a sense of loyalty towards him, and where does that leave her?

Also, Karrde is pretty great. I love how unflappable he is.

Fey’lya I’m more ambivalent on. He’s kind of a generic evil politician stereotype, but he has a job in the narrative and he does it effectively. He’s there to be a ball and chain hobbling the heroes every time they need to get something done, and by God he does precisely that.

More as trivia, but there are parts where you can really tell that this was one of the first EU works and predates the Prequel Trilogy and it’s honestly kind of funny. There’s no concept of the Sith being a thing and it’s kind of obvious that everyone assumed that the Clone Wars were wars against clones.

Next up: The Last Command.

[acourtofthought]

I tip towards elriel, but I can see tamlain happening - I might even now ship it. I mean, based on your posts here, you yourself have spent a significant amount of time linking Elain to the Spring Court, but Tamlin is the HL of Spring, not Lucien. There’s currently no textual evidence to suggest that Lucien will inherit the Spring Court, when he is the heir of Day (which is why you mention the “sunshine” line, and Lucien’s connection to the Day Court… which has nothing to do with Spring…?). You can suggest that Tamlin will abdicate because he doesn’t want to rule, but Lucien also said that he has no interest in being HL. And look at the chest of drawers. SJM said that Nesta was supposed to end up with Lucien, which is why her drawer was painted in flames. Elain’s is painted in flowers, which frankly has no connection to Lucien and the Day Court, at least not in comparison to Tamlin. Which also rebuts your point about Elain and Lucien’s names both meaning “light,” - both of their names were already decided and published when SJM originally planned for Lucien and Nesta to be together, so that connection means nothing (and in comparison, various retellings of the ballad of Tam Lin, which inspired ACOTAR and Tamlin’s character, features a heroine called Elaine).

The rest of your argument hinges on the fact that Tamlin is a bad person, so SJM will never pair him with Elain. Yet, Rhys was the person who drugged Feyre, SA’d her, twisted her broken arm, & publicly degraded her. You can’t even argue that Rhys was only like that UTM, because in ACOSF he kept a constant shield around Feyre (something that was said to be a “compromise,” so his original plan was worse), hid vital information about Feyre’s own pregnancy, and then threatened to kill Nesta for revealing this information (a threat so serious, that Cassian and Azriel had to evacuate Nesta out of the city, so that Rhys wouldn’t “spill her blood.”) Justify this all you want, but if Tamlin ever acted like that, he would 100% be condemned and HATED.

And that’s kinda my point. Everyone jumps to Rhys’s defence (as I am sure you will do in response), and is always able to justify and make excuses for his abusive actions. This is mostly because of SJM’s own writing - she adds in further context and reframes the character’s actions so that we like them again. It’s why all of us went from loathing Rhys in book 1, and seeing him as the villain, to loving him by the end. SJM can absolutely do the same to Tamlin. It wouldn’t even be a hard task - look at any recent Tamlin post on reddit, tik tok, or any other social media. 95% of people are cool with Tamlin, and the vast majority are calling for his side of the story, and for his redemption. If he was truly as bad as you say, no one would be doing that.

As for SJM not putting Elain with Tamlin because it would “hurt” Feyre - as other people have been saying, that makes it even more likely to happen. I don’t believe Elain will be evil, but most of us are expecting her to defy her sisters in some way (no matter how much you personally don’t want to see it happen). Feyre and Nesta have now spent 5 books suggesting what is “right” for Elain, what she should and shouldn’t do. Readers point this out all the time, and in ACOSF, we see the beginning of Elain pushing back on this. Elain ignoring what her sisters want, and instead choosing Tamlin, is perfectly on par with her upcoming narrative (I mean, Rhys himself said we are still yet to see the side of Elain that isn’t “innocent,” and isn’t always about pleasing other people - something that Feyre said would involve Elain touching thorns along the way, and whose throne is made out of thorns? And who said “I love you…. thorns and all”…?). It would also force Tamlin and Rhys and Feyre to make amends, something that has been in the making since book 1. Let’s not forget that Rhys and Tamlin were literally best friends - again, something that never would have happened if Tamlin was as bad as you say.

I’m sure you’ll find a way to rebut each point, but as you are a hardcore elucien, there’s not going to be much to convince you. But the tamlain ship is moving up to being one of the most popular. Again, if the idea was as bad as you say, this would simply never happen, and definitely not with this many people.

I’m sure you’ll say that it‘s because tens of thousands of people just happen to hate Elain, but people aren’t endorsing this theory because they want Tamlin and Elain to both rot in hell, or that they both “deserve each other.” No. People can see how it is thematically beautiful, aligns perfectly, allows for two misunderstood characters (or two characters who haven’t had their voice heard) speak their truth, and brings everything back full circle.

(And, as a final point regarding your post, Tamlin is not the reason Elain was turned fae. That’s like blaming Rhys for Amarantha’s actions, because he too was pretending to work with her. But not only that, during that whole scene when Elain was being put in the cauldron, everyone else just stood there in shock. Tamlin was the only one who acted. He LAUNCHED himself at Hybern, trying to “rip him to shreds,” in order to save Elain. Let’s also not forget that if Tamlin didn’t show up when he did in ACOWAR, Elain would be dead. I’m sure as she is the one who typed it, along with all the other Spring foreshadowing, that SJM isn’t unaware of all this).

Actualllllly.....Lucien said he wouldn’t want to be High Lord of Autumn Court.  That he wouldn’t want to rule over crafty two-faced people.  

He has referred to Spring as his Home so obviously he feels a stronger connection to Spring than he did Autumn.  

He has never said he wouldn’t be willing to rule anywhere else if that somehow came into being.  He has been more than willing to return to Spring and keep an eye on things though, so again, that demonstrates loyalty to that Court.  

Sure there’s no textual evidence that Lucien will be High Lord of Spring but there are hints that Elain could be High Lady in place of Tamlin who, based on textual evidence has neglected his people and hasn't been fulfilling his duties.  There is textual evidence that Tamlin never wanted to be High Lord in the first place.  There is also textual evidence that Lucien could easily help direct Elain in how to run things and perform in the Great Rite with her if she did play a part in getting Spring back on its feet.  And I’ve also said Elain restoring Spring as “interim” High Lady is a possibility.  Maybe it will give Tamlin time to go Eat, Pray, Love around Prythian, find himself and come back a better man at which time Elain and Lucien can make their way to Day.    

To address your point about Elain and Lucien’s names meaning light.  I’m almost certain my post didn’t say she made their names match because she knew they were Mates, I think it actually addressed how SJM’s subconscious knew they were Mates before she did.  Because when she did turn around and rewrite them as Mates, it was coincidentally perfect that their names matched.  And to address your other point about there being a character named Elaine in the tale of Tam Lin (all I found was a Janet), I'm not sure why the fact that she drew a name from any fairytale means much in terms of endgame considering she has said she does a retelling "light". Meaning she draws inspiration but doesn't follow it closely.

And if Nesta’s drawer = Lucien which didn’t happen than there’s a really great chance that whatever SJM intended for Elain’s drawer can also be changed to suit a new storyline.  Flames for Nesta had nothing to do with Cassian but referenced her power (Silver Flame).  Flowers can either solely reference Elain as a bringer of growth and life or they could reference the fact that her Mate lived in Spring at the time those flowers were painted.  It will be extremely easy for SJM to twist that however she needs it to go.  

Two misunderstood characters?  You mean like Elain and Lucien?  That’s the entire point.  Everything that you say about Tamlin aside from his current station of High Lord of Spring is applicable to Lucien.  Not to mention the massive amount of things about Lucien that are better than Tamlin and make him much more suited for Elain.  And Lucien doesn’t come with the baggage of having burst down their door, than kidnapping Feyre from her home in the Human Lands while Nesta and Elain sat terrified.  

I’m not sure why everyone keeps throwing out that Tamlin wasn’t the cause of the sisters being Made.  I never said he was.  And I never said he was the worst character ever. BUT......the sisters don’t agree with you (at least Nesta doesn’t).  She honestly believes that because Tamlin felt Feyre was his property, it’s what led to everything that happened with the King.  Readers get confused by their own interpretation of what happened rather than paying attention to how the characters feel about it.  It doesn’t matter what Mary, Brenda or Tim think happened based on their own opinion or how they would feel in the situation.  What matters is how Nesta, Feyre, and Elain feel about Tamlin.  He can have his redemption and HEA but it doesn't need to be with an Archeron. It would be unrealistic for them to all end up as one big happy family.

And again with the Rhys being the bad guy comment.  I’ve heard this a lot lately.  Rhys was acting like an undercover agent UTM.  He NEEDED to play a part.  You know what happens with real undercover agents?  They physically assault people in the real world to get “in” with a gang. They buy and sell drugs to get “in” with the head drug dealer.  Are those good actions?  Absolutely not.  They’re terrible actions.  But......they are still the good guy because they’re playing a part so that they can eventually take down the Really bad guys. 

Tamlin was only ever being Tamlin.  He wasn’t playing a part with Feyre after UTM.  He tried to hold her back because he couldn’t handle the thought of her being harmed.  He did it for himself and himself only.   Rhys was doing everything he did for the greater good so yeah, there is a difference.  

As far as what happened between he and Nesta, of course he was pissed and the "I'm going to kill her" is something people say when they're pissed at family and friends. Sorry but I never took that to be a serious threat, more that he was absolutely furious and wanted her out of his sight but would have never actually harmed Feyre's sister. Let's not forget Nesta threatening to rip out Feyre's throat. Nesta has made death threats upon others and we realized which of those were serious while the threat against Feyre was just empty words.

And no, I don’t base my opinions on those found on Tik Tok or Reddit (especially when they incorrectly quote the book).  I’m old enough to make decisions for myself and not off the masses or believe Tamlin and Elain have more traction than the E/riel or Elucien ship based off nameless faceless people who may have not bothered to deep dive into the series to really come to that conclusion themselves but have merely jumped on the bandwagon of a post that's led them to believe there's more to the ship than there actually is. There’s a bunch of people on Tik Tok that loved Donald Trump so what’s that tell you about social media? Plenty of bad ideas held by the masses 😂.

This is not the page to ship Elain and Tamlin because I will fight it every step of the way.  He physically assaulted Elain’s Mate, threatened him when he tried to speak up on behalf of Feyre, threw Lucien’s clothes out as if he were a pissed off female who just found out her boyfriend was cheating on her.  He has caused Feyre and Nesta (FACTS) emotional trauma.  I’m guessing Elain too but without her POV I can’t say for sure.  I do know she wouldn’t be so heartless as to hook up with her sisters ex fiance and cause of trauma though.  To bring Tamlin to family get togethers and force her sister and Rhys to watch Nyx engaging with him.  That's not defying her sisters, that's her being a heartless bitch.

Tamlin is crass (Elain is not).  Tamlin is violent (Elain is bothered by it).  Tamlin doesn’t like socializing (Elain does).  Tamlin doesn’t like females getting involved in dangerous things (Elain wanted to help search for the Trove).  Tamlin destroys furniture (Elain likes to keep a nice home).  

There is nothing beautiful about that pairing.  Like I said in another post,  I read ALLLLLLL sorts of books.  I just read a CNC by LJ Shen earlier.  I’ve read bully romances, dark romances, sisters ending up with their ex’s romancesv(it's always the first sister that caused problems which is why it seemed "OK" for the heroine to end up with the ex).  And I’ve enjoyed them.  And in all the depraved books I’ve read, Elain and Tamlin ending up together would be the most horrible thing I’ve ever come across. 

And character names, what was on the dresser drawer. None of that matters when you realize SJM changed Luciens father once she knew he and Elain were to be Mates. Whatever happened with Elain, Lucien or Nesta in book 1 doesn't compare to what she wrote about them in book 2. And sure Tamlin wanted to rip the King to shreds because he knew what was about to happen would be horrible for Feyre. He was there to take Feyre back to Spring, not Elain. His actions were solely because of Feyre considering he was still hoping to have sex with her in book 3, and still in love with her in the Novella. Still upset over her pregnancy in ACOSF. It doesn't sound like he's really given Elain too much thought. Lucien is the only one who attempted to go to Elain before and after the Cauldron. Who found Elain to be the most beautiful female he's ever seen. Who was worried about what was happening to her in the NC then concerned about how much weight she had lost once he saw her.

If Tamlin wasn't around for Elain at her lowest than he definitely doesn't deserve her at her best.

And if it weren't for Elain, then Briar, Nesta, Cassian and Az might be dead. If it weren't for Rhys and Feyre, Tamlin would be dead. If it weren't for Amren they'd all be dead and so on. All the characters have saved one another at various times and that's never really been a hint to endgame potential. Tamlin saved Feyre and Feyre saved Tamlin in book 1 and that didn't really end well for their relationship, did it?

[dankar-camoran]

Mr. Mankar Cameron himself!

The Mankar the Mythkar the Legendkar

First Impression: the hell is this guy even talking about who is lorkhan wait the heart of lorkhan was that thing from morrowind you hit to kill dagoth ur I guess it makes sense it belonged to a guy called lorkhan that's a cool robe (I am 11 years old)

Impression now: TAMRIEL AE DAEDROTH. This guy is a charismatic genius of a cult leader whose machinations led to the end of the Septim Dynasty while also having his head too far up his ass in esoteric daedric lore to see the practical (let alone moral) drawbacks of his actions. He's not looking for power, he's not looking for glory, he is a willing instrument for Mehrunes Dagon's latest scheme. He's horrifying, he's amazing, every TES fan has a Weird Little Guy and he is Mine.

Favorite Moment: Wearing the Amulet of Kings. It's the MacGuffin you're chasing for most of the main narrative, you know it can only be worn by the Dragonborn Heir, and the game doesn't let you wear it when you've got it. And then you see this guy, not a Septim, no evidence he should be able to, and yet there's the Amulet of Kings around his neck. Even to a player like me at the time, not paying much attention to the lore, I remember thinking "How is he doing that??" And he's got no practical reason to even wear it! It's not enchanted to give him extra powers or whatever; It's just his own way of adding Insult to the Injury that is the Oblivion Crisis, and telling Akatosh to stick his Divine Right of Kings up his Draconic Ass. Stunting on the Divines, he's so petty.

Idea for a story: I've got ideas that could feasibly work well as vignettes about various points in his life, from living with his mother, to learning about the Camoran Usurper, to organizing the Mythic Dawn and so on. It'd focus on his shifting motives and goals, and his journey from being an idealistic guy trying to fight imperialism to becoming groomed by Dagon and made a harbinger of Oblivion who is fine with all the death and destruction it will bring.

Unpopular Opinion: I'm not sure. I haven't seen a lot of strong opinions about him one say or the other. I guess I like to half-jokingly call him a More Successful villain than Dagoth Ur or Alduin, which is obviously debatable depending on your metric of success.

Favorite relationship: in my own headcanon, his relationship with his mother, Kaalys, and its gradual collapse as he gets more involved in the sort of things she was trying to keep him away from. In Canon, his only relationship with any depth is with Dagon, even more so than with his own children. The Mythic Dawn is probably the most significant group devoted to Dagon in a way that views him with more depth than just being Diet Molag Bal, and iirc the Commentaries imply Mankar has spoken personally with his Patron, which could make for some interesting stories.

Favorite Headcanon: Where to begin?? His mom Kaalys killed his father the Camoran Usurper shortly before giving birth to him, he was initially an Altmer nationalist who had a romanticized view of his father (much to his mom's despair) as a Revolutionary fighting the Septim Empire, his wife was named Ruma and she died in childbirth with their twins so he named their daughter after her and dedicated a passage of the Commentaries to her, his infamous mixing up of Princes and their Planes was a sign that all his dabbling in Esoteric Deeplore Shit was taking a toll on his mind, and had he lived long enough it would have progressed in a manner like dementia which would have been fine with Dagon since by that point he wouldn't need Mankar anymore

[onewomancitadel]

The Dune series is actually an interesting question of misogynistic writing because... I think it's a whole lot more complicated at first glance than it seems (its homophobia is probably more cut-and-dry, even with the lesbianism Leto II accepts amongst his Fish Speakers - Duncan Idaho objects to it, and presumably this is the more 'moral' position). I actually think the writing of a lot of his female characters, even his tragic ones, is very humanistic, even when there are some weirder and stranger ideas he's exploring - actually because of that. His artistic ideas clearly take priority to the point that I think it overcomes even some of the finer regressive points or intimations of such. Further, there really is very little sexual violence in the books. Duncan Idaho is a womaniser, but women desire him. The 2021 adaptation of the first half of Dune actually made a sexual threat to Jessica more explicit. The rape of an enslaved boy by the Baron, who looks like Feyd Rautha, happens offscreen and is implied. It's monstrous, of course, and decidedly homophobic in its implications - for the bare fact of making it more prominent when the sexual violence against women isn't, I think. But that aside, we do have examples of lovemaking offscreen in Dune (which is easier to achieve in writing than film) and the contrast of that to, say, Irulan wanting an heir.

So often it is said that sexual violence is 'realistic', but healthy sexual relationships are, by virtue, apparently not - the inclusion of them doesn't enter the conversation. I think that I would rather take a series largely absent of sexual violence than I would something which comes with graphic sex scenes. At the very least, I would prefer that sexual violence is balanced by positive depictions of sex - people can critique a gore-a-thon, I think it's fair to critique the overuse of sexual violence. (E.g. if we had a scene of Jessica and Leto making love, I would have been more alright with the book change otherwise made - which actually also minimises Jessica trying to use sexuality as control, which was not ideal in the book but definitely different in activity/tone. Why is it okay to insert the threat of sexual violence against women when I think it's evident they're trying to 'fix' gender/sexuality/race problems with Dune?)

I know this isn't a popular camp for the 'old sci-fi is universally regressive' crowd, and I think having been an avid sci-fi reader in general means I've read some reaaaaally bad stuff, but I think that Dune is a great example of where his actual ideas are not necessarily held back in realisation of his female characters. Jessica's ambition (later retconned to love, for thematic reasons in relation to Leto II, methinks) and her interference in creating the kwisatz haderach is an enormous choice which has enormous impact on the world of Dune, and similarly her carrying Alia is a major narrative event. It's not something she's shuffled off to the side for - but she's also not just the womb-bearer, she's actually more than that, and it's related to, and transgressive of, the Bene Gesserit politicking. She's probably my second favourite character in the books. Mother, yes, but leagues more than that. Even Alia's tragedy is not something that happens to her because she's female, it's because she's an Abomination; her monstrousness is not something that is just the hysteria of being female.

Let alone the fact that both Paul and Leto II actually transcend gender in some way, in ways which are honestly really interesting and if not better than a lot of male characters now lol.

So when I think about ideas which transcend misogyny, or good writing which can transcend misogyny even with issues in the work, Dune is an example in my head.

[bestworstcase]

there’s… something in the way rwby uses power as a concept, strength as a separate concept, and magic as a device to interrogate both that is really interesting and also difficult for me to parse cleanly—in particular because the distinction drawn between power and strength is not always clearly defined, in that in certain cases strength is evidently being used synonymously with power instead , not in a muddying-the-waters way but i think as a means of revealing something about the characters who can’t or won’t distinguish strength from power or (salem) are commenting on the perceptions of characters in the former category. in particular the power/strength distinction fascinates in regards to “there will be no victory in strength,” in which it is contextually clear that salem is referring to strength-as-power—in contrast to what she means by strength when she includes it alongside courage and resourcefulness as fundamental traits of humankind—and likewise clear that ozma understands strength to mean power (otherwise his rebuttal of “or perhaps victory is found in the simpler things” makes little sense).

i suppose an argument could be made for salem using strength in the other sense throughout the whole monologue—but given the narrative keeps firmly and overtly validating “no victory in strength” as the correct stance that doesn’t quite ring true. salem perceives this conflict—i think—as largely an ideological one in which she is taking advantage of ozma’s reliance on powerful symbols and guardians to corrode the hope, trust, and social cohesion that he neglects to maintain as a direct consequence of his fixation on symbols and guardians, and ozma occupies this peculiar place of at once recognizing that as salem’s strategy but wholly failing to meet her on that ideological battlefield, which is why he loses. he trains child soldiers; salem waits for him to sabotage himself and then strikes when the cracks begins to show.

—anyway, the maidens and their power function as, primarily, a device for examining… this. magic is power but the narrative point of a character becoming a maiden is not to make them more powerful but rather to make them focal points in the ideological struggle between strength-as-power vs strength-as-humanity. (which among other things is why analysis regarding the maidens that centers power in the discussion feels like it misses the point.)

i think this is most overtly clear with amber, fria, and the unnamed spring maiden, all of whom were unambiguously embedded in the conspiracies of the old vanguard, which treated them as little more than malleable vessels for the power they contained; so much so that ozpin’s associates refer to them exclusively by their titles (fall/autumn, winter, spring) and the two of them still alive in the present of the story are literally reduced to mere storage containers awaiting the inauguration of the next-in-line. they’re the fixation on symbol and guardian taken to its logical and horrific conclusion.

but it’s pretty evident in the other maidens as well: raven claimed spring’s magic for herself and left ozpin’s conspiracy behind, but she hasn’t let go of the underlying mindset that power is strength and strength is everything. thus, she’s at once one of the most formidable characters in the story and also one of the most fragile, so ruled by cowardice that she can’t bring herself to do anything but run and hide in desperation to just survive one more day.

penny gave fria a moment of dignity and compassion before she died and received winter’s magic in return, freely given—but that transition occurred within the structure of the conspiracy (fria believed her to be ironwood’s chosen heir), and as a consequence penny couldn’t escape what that power meant to atlas, to ironwood. this made it impossible for her to truly integrate the magic into her identity, and made the magic itself nothing but an unfair and painful burden on her shoulders.

—which is why, when penny gave it to winter, she did so simply and only because winter was her friend. it wasn’t a tactical choice or one made with the intention of conferring some responsibility onto winter’s shoulders; it was a gift, and a way of gently and peacefully saying goodbye to one of her closest friends. that it gave winter the boost she needed to leave her battle with ironwood and race to the aid of her sister and friend is beside the point except insofar as it symbolizes the triumph of humanity over power; the exact moment when winter wins that duel is when she gets to her feet and says “you chose nothing; this was a gift”—when she rejects ironwood’s power over her soul and destiny and claims instead penny’s friendship and her own ability to choose. (there is a reason she then defeats him by deflecting his own blast back at him and flying away, rather than like, blowing him to smithereens with her new godlike power; it’s about her emotional victory over his control, and how that has freed her from him so completely that he can’t harm her any longer.)

& that leaves cinder, who interests me most on the grounds that she is at once motivated by relentless pursuit of power because she believes being powerful is the only way to be free, and also the ultimate representation of how atlesian society—the purest distillation of the post-war order—ruins people because it enshrines power above all; and intertwined with that is the fact that cinder is salem’s maiden, not ozpin’s, and salem spent two volumes quietly but persistently attempting to coax cinder into grasping that power is not everything and then in 8 got so fed up with her obsession with power that she drove cinder into open rebellion before she realized she needed to change tactics. and of course what cinder truly needs is to relinquish her obsession with power, which is borne out of a terror of being controlled and harmed, which makes the role salem occupies in her story rather complicated in that salem is both someone who harms and controls her and the character invested in easing cinder out of the mindset that allows salem to harm and control her gjdhdks. but, like—on a symbolic or thematic level, cinder is wrestling with the ideological clash between strength-as-power and strength-as-humanity in a way the other maidens haven’t, and i think that is probably because she is on salem’s side and salem represents change and challenge to the status quo; of course her protege would be the maiden who most exemplifies this struggle.

anyway i’m. curious to see where and how or if this narrative use of magic will come into play with ozma’s and salem’s magic; i think it has a little bit with ozma’s, in oscar’s reluctance to use it because he associates it with the loss of his own identity, and then there’s salem’s—apparent—preference for using other means besides her own phenomenal magical power to achieve her ends, even to the point of using dust over innate magic in the creation of specialized grimm. rwby has been so consistent in its handling of the maiden power (and silver eyes, for that matter) that i feel… fairly confident that the same general thematic principles apply to ozma’s and salem’s, but we haven’t seen enough of either of them in relation to their magic for me to have a good sense of exactly how they fit in beyond their being powerful not being the narrative point of them having magic. (and the mystifying puzzle of the fight in witch, and why salem… did that. i have a granule of a thought here but i need a third data point before i can complete it.)