#my reasoning for this is that most of the interesting dynamics are removed by that point

[old-stoneface]

im listening to the audiobook for making money (ive read the book but it was a couple years ago now) and my review is that the antagonists for this book are my least favorite out of all of the city books ive read. they completely lack charm and theyre mostly just horribly annoying

[kateysummers99]

Do you think the WWBM Interacial movement has now got to a critical point where momentum has starting to challenge even the majority of White Women now as far as there choices for relationship ? May we as White Males even lose this group of females to African Men more then we keep ourselves ?

The short answer is definitely yes.

Because of my own personal experiences and also just looking at major social trends, it's pretty obvious that IR relationships (in general, but specifically white girls and black guys) are much more common now than they were 10, 30, and 30 years ago. 

I think there are lots of reasons for this and I’m obviously not an expert (I work in finance, not cultural psychology), but lets just look at the obvious trends:

Girls today are more empowered in general, and especially regarding sexuality and romance. I mention this a lot on this blog, there are less things hold girls back than there used to be. Movies and TV and culture in general are so much more accepting that people can love who they want to love, and that applies especially to society being more accepting of girls expressing their sexuality. I grew up in a time when dating black guys was an obvious but implied no-no, and it's just not the same today. (Note this is NOT true everywhere. Sadly there are racists and homophobes still, but they will probably be holdouts until they die.)

Black men are idolized for their physicality and masculinity by society more and more every day. Sports, music, advertising media, movies, social media and TV shows - you name it, black guys are constantly the icon of masculinity, status and power. This is really true for their masculinity, where we regularly fetishize the sexual prowess of black men in every day culture with phrases like “once you go black you never go back.” 

Porn is free and everywhere. Also something that wasn’t the case when I was growing up, but now you just pick up any cell phone and in a few seconds be privately and anonymously staring at an amazing black man and his huge black cock (or whatever your fantasy is).

Also in the last few years, social justice and institutional racism has become a hot topic, I think a lot of women recognize that the same old white male patriarchy that has been suppressing women since the beginning of time has also been responsible for suppressing Black people. This puts white women and black men on the same side on a pretty deep level, where they see each other in the same existential struggle for happiness against the common enemy that is old white guys.

Another interesting thing that I've read reports about is more and more young white guys who are essentially "staying single" forever, sometimes due to porn addiction. They make a sexual connection with porn that is easy and judgment free, which is the opposite of the real-world dating situation where they deal with complex social dynamics and competition (including trying to compete against more masculine black men who are constantly in movies and music).

So if that's a growing tend... then young women find themselves more free in choosing partners, society idolizing black guys, exposed to IR sex and porn, and more culturally aligned with black guys… and young white guys basically removing themselves from the dating pool.

As for me personally, I have always thought think black guy / white girl couples are the most beautiful -- there's a special passion and primal attraction that goes deep down that you just don't see with other couples.

So yes, I think black guy and white girl couples are definitely more and more popular. I don’t think we’ll ever get to a point where all white men are unwanted forever (sorry white boys who message me, desperate to live in such a world), but I do think increasingly empowered girls and wider acceptance of female sexuality will naturally trend to more black guys and white girls together - which is all beautiful to me :)

[gothicbarbie]

MY TOP 10 BEST BL COUPLES OF 2023

So I guess I'm a little late considering it's now 2024 in most places, but well, better late than never. I tried and failed to rank top 20 or even 10 kisses... I just couldn't remember them all or even choose... but most of my top couples have some pretty great kisses, so at least there's that! I can, however, rank my favorite BL pairings from 2023, so... let's do it! I will be ranking these from least favorite to favorite because I think it's more fun that way... Also I credited all the gif makers at the bottom but I did list the tumblr user for each specific gif underneath. If someone wants me to remove their gif, please let me know and I will so! I just wanted to pretty up the post a bit.

Also, to clarify, any couple on a show that is currently airing and not complete yet is not eligible to be on the list for 2023. Trust me, there were many I wanted to include!

Honorary Mentions:

Tinn & Gun | My School President

So, spoiler, a different GeminiFourth pairing will be on the actual top 10 so I didn't really want to include both pairings on the list, but I really did love the two of them in My School President. G/F just have such a wonderful and natural chemistry. The way they always look at each other just feels so pure and sweet. I really like pairings where one is secretly pining for the other, but Tinn/Gun also sorta had a hate/love ISH thing going for a little while. The progression of their relationship to actual boyfriends was just so fun to watch and really well done.

Dong Wook & Do Hyun | A Breeze of Love

I watched this BL so quickly that it didn't really resonate with me as well as some other series, which is why these two didn't make the top 10, however, I really enjoyed their relationship on the show. I love hate to love pairings and I found their backstory scenes really sweet as well. I also thought they had a really nice chemistry and there were some strong kissing moments for a kbl.

Jihan & Jaejun | City Boy Log

I didn't include these two on the main list for two reasons, one: the show is not over yet... i don't think? and two: this technically isn't a BL drama? IDK anymore, but regardless I love this series and this couple so dang much! I love the realness of them filming themselves and how their relationship is portrayed so subtly until their feelings just sort of emerge. They have some really wonderful and special scenes or moments together that we don't typically get on other series. I am anxious to see where the rest of the story goes and I hope the actors get another opportunity to work together. The side pairing is great too!

Top 10!

#10. Ai & Songkhram | Destiny Seeker

These two were so damn fun to watch, I really loved the hate to love thing at the start that quickly turned into love (Or I guess always sort of was???). The actors had such a great chemistry together and they had so many fun little moments and bantery scenes together. While the rest of the series felt a little flat for me, their connection continuously kept me interested.

#09. Ze Rui & Zong Yi | Kiseki Dear to Me

Honestly don't even know what to write about these two or how to explain why I like them, because there wasn't anything particularly special about their dynamic that typically draws me in, but I just really enjoyed the actors chemistry together and I really liked the progression of their relationship and how well they meshed together. Their kissing was extremely natural too.

#08. King & Eua | Bed Friend

Firstly, these two are HOT AF, and I really loved the friends with benefits storyline between these two, but more than that, we have a perfect character imo with King, who was continuously there for Eua and always trying to help him and make him understand how much he really cared. The show could be very dark at times but I love that King was always sort of the shining light for Eua.

#07. Segaski & Yoh | My Personal Weatherman

I can admit that the big draw to this show for me originally was the sexy scenes and moments, and while I do think the series could have done with some more scenery changes and better storylines, considering the time frame, I enjoyed watching the relationship between the two characters develop. It's nice to get a friends with benefits type of relationship and see how it progresses into more than that. And for a JBL it was nice to see some high heat with a happy ending.

#06. Su Yu & Wu Bi | Stay With Me

SIGH. THESE TWO. So I mean, I understand the criticism of this show and their relationship. So many things are implied but personally I felt like the end half made it pretty clear that these two were 100% a romantic couple. (just wish it was clarified when that change happened) But the progression of their relationship from hate to love was so beautiful to watch. Even if it was just a friendship it was worth it imo to see how close they got. Fair warning, the finale episode is not the best lmao, but I hope we get a second season to sort of fix it? Fingers crossed on that one.

#05. Wan & Ki Tae | Our Dating Sim

This was definitely one of the cutest BL's of the year and this couple falls into that category well too. I really loved seeing them re-connect. I love that they were old best friends (with feelings) that had a lot of issues to sort through and we saw some adorable flashback scenes as well as current scenes. I also love that they got together and were mostly happy instead of having a lot of intense drama.

#04. Li Ming & Heart | Moonlight Chicken

These two... so much to say about them and yet I don't really know where to start. Gemini and Fourth just work so well together and I felt like this duo was even deeper than in MSP. They started out on bad terms but quickly became close and I really loved the progression of their relationship and then I adored how we also got to see them together as a couple too. My favorite thing about them was how hard Li Ming worked to try to understand Heart and how he learned sign language for him and encouraged him to get to know others like him and to put himself out there. They also had such a fun banter with playful moments and scenes. It was just so damn pure and sweet to watch with no unnecessary or stupid fillery drama.

#03. Jae Won and Ji Hyun | The Eighth Sense

Something about this pairing just felt so much different than the typical KBL pairing. The show itself was so much deeper and had a more serious tone than we typically get, which was amazing. The actors nailed the roles and you could really feel the tension and longing between them right from the beginning. I loved their storyline so much and the actors seemed so comfortable together.

#02. Yamato & Kakeru | I Cannot Reach You

This was one of my favorite BL's of the year and their relationship was a huge part of it. I thought I was more into hate to love, but clearly, based on this list, that isn't always the case. There is something so sweet and adorable about best friends turned to lovers. I really love too when we see one side pining for the other, so this couple was extremely enjoyable to watch!

#01. Chen Yi & Ai Di | Kiseki Dear To Me

Good Lord these two... they had the perfect formula for my favorite type of pairing. Hate to love, drama, tension, angst, one-sided pining... it was so painful to have to wait every week for more. But god, it was worth the wait and their chemistry was just so good, their kisses were phenomenal too. Def. a memorable pair and a show I will be rewatching very soon!

THANK YOU to all these wonderful humans for making the most amazing gifs that I used in this post!

[bthump]

what draws you to homosexual relationships in fiction as opposed to heterosexual ones? I noticed I prefer them as well but I don’t really know why. Or maybe it’s just in the media I like the homosexual relationships are written to be much more compelling, I don’t know. This isn’t hate against het relationships btw I support all sexualities

Probably a million different reasons honestly. Off the top of my head, some of my personal reasons:

-- I'm bi but more interested in gay relationships in my personal life, so my fictional interests reflect my irl interests.

-- Removes misogyny as a factor both within the romantic dynamic and, if m/m, the depiction.

-- Relatedly, I hate how 99% of hetero relationships in media have a built in lowkey unacknowledged d/s vibe due to that misogyny. Woman passive man active, woman pursued man pursues, woman weak man strong, woman soft man hard, woman fucked man fuck, woman object man subject, woman prize man winner, woman small man big, woman puts in work and money to make herself attractive man gets to live at his default state, woman desirable for looks man desirable for personality/money/skill, woman financially dependent on man, etc etc etc. Turns me off.

-- Like at least when that's the dynamic in m/m or f/f it's deliberately someone's kink and a gender norm is being subverted by one of the characters.

-- Gay relationships being more equal is something I've seen cited a lot, rightly or not, but it isn't one of my reasons lol, I like unequal relationships in fiction. That said, gender not being a factor in that inequality is definitely a draw for me.

-- Subtext is more engaging than most textual romances, and gay relationships are more likely to be subtext while het is more likely to be textual.

-- Gay sex (m/m and f/f) turns me on, straight sex rarely does.

-- Specific to m/m, but men in fiction are more likely to have compelling, complicated, deep relationships with each other than they are with women.

-- I enjoy gender nonconformity which is much more plentiful in gay ships and fiction than straight media.

-- Heterosexuality is oversaturated in media and I'm exhausted and irritated by its ubiquitousness.

-- As someone who grew up in the 90s, the existence of casually gay popular media still blows my mind lol, the shine has not come even close to wearing off. Heterosexual media just can't compete with that.

Anyway yeah, those are a few of my reasons, and maybe they align with some of yours as well.

Ultimately though I don't think it matters and it shouldn't be something you feel the need to justify imo. Enjoy whatever you enjoy for whatever reason, or no reason at all. But if you enjoy soul searching, then maybe this list is a decent starting point.

[iridescentmirrorsgenshin]

Alhaitham and Kaveh as each other's 'home'

(This is a reworked excerpt taken from my Haikaveh essay! If you're interested you can check it out here or as a pdf <3)

Family is an important theme, particularly in regard to Kaveh, as the reason for his guilt is based upon his belief that he destroyed his own family. For Kaveh, family – home – is a place in which “words [are] not necessary” since companionship is valued above all:

Family is also important for Alhaitham, however, as there is a particular focus on the relationship between him and his late grandmother within his character stories, as her influence over him incentivised him to pursue the “peaceful” way of life he seeks to maintain:

After the death of his grandmother, Alhaitham lived alone and attended the Akademiya, just as Kaveh did as his mother left for Fontaine after his enrolment. Kaveh’s loss of family leads directly into him meeting Alhaitham. This establishes a direct correlation between Alhaitham and family, indicating that Alhaitham filled a role recently lacking in Kaveh’s life. This is relevant to Alhaitham, as he had enrolled in the Akademiya after the passing of his grandmother, meaning that, similar to Kaveh, he, too, had no family.

The idea of found family, as in, a tightly knit support network built with mutual sentiment between unrelated people, is introduced in Sumeru as the joint-thesis. Academic family is highly valued amongst scholars and comes into fruition through the working together on projects. This can be observed within the dynamic between Tighnari, Cyno, and Collei, as during the Windblume event, they describe themselves as a family formed outside of academia, even assigning themselves titles akin to a real biological family.

Alhaitham and Kaveh then established this found family in each other upon working together on a joint thesis, although additional scholars initially worked with them before dropping out. Their argument culminated in Kaveh ripping up their thesis, which effectively ended their friendship, and familial bond, made mutual by Alhaitham removing his name from the project. Kaveh, however,  is described to have pieced the thesis cover back together with “deep regret”, and placed it in his old sketchbook.

In this, Kaveh regrets the loss of his connection with Alhaitham, and the family that their joint thesis established. Although he has pieced together the thesis cover, their family remains severed as reconciliation is perceived as implausible due to their differences:

Most notably, it is the building which serves as Alhaitham’s house which is crucial to the motif of home. Due to their combined efforts in their joint thesis, the Akademiya gifted the two a research centre, as the results of their thesis had significant impact despite not being completed. When Alhaitham took up the property after graduation, he heard through a third-party, sent by Kaveh, that Kaveh was relinquishing rights of the property due to him not being in need of a house. It was after this that Alhaitham invested in the property, converting it into a house, where he took up residence, and then invited Kaveh to live with him, after the two met in the tavern. Although it is understood to be Alhaitham’s property, since Kaveh relinquished his right to it, Alhaitham considers Kaveh to be his “roommate” rather than a tenant, despite Kaveh paying rent.

Kaveh and Alhaitham split the chores according to Alhaitham’s Character Story, although they mostly fall to Kaveh; they both make attempts to decorate the house; presumably they eat dinner together, according to Alhaitham’s Story Quest where he excuses himself in order to have dinner, only to talk to Kaveh; the two can be seen to share a study; when ordering out, Kaveh orders extra for Alhaitham – a common enough occurrence for Alhaitham to be confident in relying on this. Rather than “cold” and “lonely” this conjures the image of warmth and familiarity. In this, it can be inferred that the two have created a home together.

Referring back to Kaveh’s understanding of “home”, as in a place in which words are not necessary, and linking it to the idea of companionship being more important than understanding introduced in his hangout. The latter idea consists of supporting a person, regardless of the ability to empathise with and relate to their particular struggles, should be valued over attempting to be wholly understood by people who are not willing to listen.

In this, Alhaitham is offered as a companion to Kaveh, where he cannot empathise with Kaveh’s artistic and idealistic struggles, but he is willing to listen to him, rather than offering words which cannot solve Kaveh’s particular problems.

By Kaveh’s understanding of “home” as a place in which people are at ease with each other and support another regardless, this can be seen within his relationship with Alhaitham. As Kaveh has pieced together their ripped up thesis cover with “deep regret” of what it symbolises, the severance of his and Alhaitham’s relationship, Alhaitham inviting Kaveh to live with him serves as mirroring actions of reconciliation.

Kaveh's idea of 'home' in encapsulated in both the building and the company Alhaitham provides. The building that had initially served as a physical representation of their severed harmony of ideals, aborted friendship and dissolved found family, has been transformed into a house, and now a home for the two to share.

[yangsharperavery]

so here's the thing...

i've written about this topic a few times during and after season 1, but the carmy and sydney of it all remains a highly contested and discussed topic. even after season two.

what i find so truly fascinating is that chris storer and joanna calo and everyone involved with the creation of this lovely, well constructed show absolutely could have created the duo they work SO hard in the press to convince viewership they intended.

if they really wanted sydney to be a psuedo/standin sibling for the one carmy lost, or the brainy, determined business partner that comes in to orient a sinking ship...

there are a couple hundred ways they could have managed that and made it abundantly clear that's what the angle was within the dynamic between carmy and sydney.

instead... we have all this very overtly (and covertly) romantic, potent and simmering subtext regarding the nature of their relationship and what they mean to one another, their effect on each other and their seemingly endless potential.

in a whole host of ways there are a number of scenes that literally don't make sense without the lens of the undercurrent of feelings or reverence or romance or something that exists between them beyond the intended business partners/co-creatives.

there are ways to narratively parallel sydney as a mirror and equal and peer of carmy's void of all ambiguity and romantic tension and any energy of awkward longing or confusion.

but that's not actually what we got. i've been consuming television media for most of my life. i've watched hundreds of shows; shipping has never been a requirement for my viewership or interest.

which leads me to believe that there's either a bunch of deflection/dismissing happening for a very distinct reason. or there's been a bait and switch planned from the beginning.

you would literally have to remove 75% of the nuance within carmy and sydney's interactions for the stictly platonic claims to make sense and effectively land.

you'd have to go through and remove various staging, shot selection, editing, music choices and sometimes entire scenes to accurately convey original or "intended" messaging.

to completely eradicate the liminal space of subjectivity between them.

why is carmy talking about tina looking like sydney with that distinct expression on his face when they all wear that apron?

why are they being awkward at the lockers like it isn't customary for coworkers and business partners to go out after work for dinner or drinks or whatever (literally evidenced by tina this season)?

why is sydney mentioning jealousy at all when it comes to carmy's relationship? especially when it makes perfect sense for her to be upset with him for not pulling his weight?

why is sydney entering into carmy's life for the first time and deciding to stay, the second time, something that literally brings him out of his panic? when it could have been him cooking, his drawings, his staff, his gf. ANYTHING else.

they effectively made sydney an emotional, mental and energetic tether for him in that scene. for what reason? business partner ones or????

why do they bicker like an old married couple? is that customary for creative collaborators and coworkers?

why superimpose sydney, parallel her doing something the audience saw carmy do last season, and then show her going about her night while he's by contrast, with his girlfriend? why show a random closeup of a meaningful tattoo on her shoulder? no thematic significance beyond the grind of the restaurant world and career ambition?

why is there an obvious awkward breaking of energy after a highly vulnerable and tender moment between the two of them under the table? why does sydney noticeably fidget/adjust herself/her apron when he walks away to get her gift?

there's actually a hundred instances of these questions you could ask over the course of the two seasons when it comes to them.

so the reasoning behind the shipper pushback is baffling and a bit laughable.

some people bring into question, perhaps this is just the natural chemistry that jaw and ayo bring to their characters bc they're obviously good friends.

which... sure. i guess. but even that begs the question, you wrote and shot and constructed a story a specific way and then your two actors sort of bled on and expanded the material in a very obvious way you didn't expect?

cool, cool. so again... you're surprised that could lead to viewership seeing something deeper than mere platonic business partners?

that's shocking and surprising to you?

no way.

especially considering storer and calo have commented on how close jaw and ayo are and that their dynamic is different than the one she has with ebon and lionel. which is hilarious bc she adores ebon and has been out of the country traveling with lionel (and some other people from odd future.)

so clearly they all enjoy each other, are friends and get along.

but why even make that note of demarcation regarding jaw and ayo's dynamic and STILL be like "oh yeah, we didn't write or mean for them to be a romance " you're shocked that people SEE something given your storytelling and their obvious connection that even you, the creators themselves remarked on?!?!

there's a picture from the golden globes of ayo holding jaw's mom's hands during his acceptance speech. like they're really besties.

but i'm sorry, they can't bestie themselves into what carmy and sydney clearly exemplify on our screens without an entire framework at their disposal. because they're talented and professionals.

so if the writing is saying something, then it's intentional.

maybe the intention was to have their characters skirt and skate on the periphery of each other.

maybe it was for things to be awkward and weird and undefined or hectic and toxic.

maybe they weren't ever gonna have some relegated idea of a shipper's happily ever after.

people have feelings that go unexpressed and undefined. people fall in love and then don't end up together.

maybe the slow burn fizzles out, maybe it explodes or implodes, maybe one of them self denies, maybe they both do.

maybe it will or won’t be addressed directly or covertly. that's actually not a requirement for its existence.

to act like there isn't something true and obvious and visceral that exists between these characters is frankly like asking those who watch your show not to use their eyes and their brains.

impossible.

[karoochui]

I just wanted to say I am so enamoured with Binary Insurgence! I eat up everything, every little crumb, you drop about it and the entire idea is so interesting to me! I'm so in love with stories and worlds like this! I'm also curious to know about the relationship between Sun and Moon, if it's alright to ask. How was it before the fire compared to after? Does their relationship begin to mend (because I'm certain over the years it deteriorated) when y/n comes back into the picture? If any of this is too spoilery or you just haven't fleshed it out yet then you don't have to answer! I'm just super curious about the boys and how you see their dynamic/relationship. I just look forward to seeing how their bond has grown and/or broken and how it may be mended over time.

AHH im glad you like it so much!! Im happy to talk about what i've got, but you are right not everything is fully fleshed out. I have points i wanna get to but while im brainstorming and planning i make up a lot of stuff as i go and then go over it again later to see if i like it or can connect stuff in any way. I have 3 chapters for Arc 1 fully summarized as of now! (Which probably doesn't seem like a lot but i like my chapters long, so it's quite a bit actually).

I wanna say, too, that i'm planning for the first story to be more in the perspective of the reader, so most things about Sun and Moon's personal thoughts and feelings are gonna be more implied than said. I might have some switching points of view, i'm not sure, but i haven't found a place i'd do it or think it's relevant. The sequel is gonna be more from their perspective since it'll mostly be about them.

NOW! I see Sun and Moon as brothers, so they really treat each other in a way that's like that. Before the fire they get along pretty well. Most instances of issue would be when Moon blocks out Sun when he fronts, or just mutual panic over the fact Moon lost his shit w/ the virus. They'll have their disagreements about things (i havent planned specifics yet) but generally they're chill. Sun just worries about Moon hurting people, but Moon worries too. With the way the virus functions in this AU it's hard for Sun to fully fault Moon for what he does, especially because he's also affected by it but not nearly as bad. (I'm gonna explain this more in another ask i have).

Plus, even before the virus they were always glitch/bug-ridden because technicians fucked up their programming continuously after removing them from the theater to work in the daycare. So they had to kinda navigate through that together, glitches and errors on both ends (though not deadly). They hate P&S bc of this, obviously. Hardware fixes suck but they fucking HATE software examinations.

Later on though some issues come into play whenever Sun starts getting worse by being further exposed to the virus (it gets worse for him when they eclipse) because it presents itself in Sun differently than it does Moon. He gets snappier and angrier at times (that comic i made that's captioned "well someones snappy") and while they both understand he doesnt mean the shit he does it's still not great. And nobody's gonna just let themselves be talked to like a dog even if the reason it's happening is because of something the other person can't really help. They're still relatively fine at this point, though.

It's at the end when shit goes really bad, because this part of the story does end badly. I won't spoil specifics but after the fire Sun loses his shit. He starts trying to put the blame on Moon for everything (the virus enhancing his already bad habits/fucking with his line of thinking) out of grief and anger. That carries over into the apocalypse and he just gets worse in general. He gets irrational.

It's a long period of time though, so he eventually also manages it, in his own way. But! I did say before in an ask that in the sequel he's "not evil, persay, but he's a fucking nut". He damns Moon to an hourglass to just fucking get rid of him about 100~ years before they meet you again (he fully thinks he's in the right for this (and he also just hates him) and the only reason he really even stayed around after that was to make sure Moon didn't get out again). He's not a bad-intentioned individual, but he's off the fucking wall at many times bc of the virus having made him worse. He's stubborn as all hell to an infuriating degree, he's irrational, hard-headed, reckless, and while a good bit of his old, kinder self is still pretty prevalent he can be downright fucking mean if provoked. Again, worse than before, and it doesn't take much these days! I always imagined him to have more dramatic, snappy, diva aspects to his personality (even before Help Wanted 2 came out) bc hes so theatrical and intense, so basically take a Sun that's like that, crank it up to 100 and put him in a Bad Situation. That's what Round 2 Sun is like at his worst. He's not a complete lost cause though, and he's far from dumb when he does stuff, just clouded by his own judgement. He doesn't think anything's wrong with him (or does he?).

Moon doesn't really hate him like Sun hates Moon, because although he knows that what happened (the ending of the first story) is technically both of their faults he just feels guilt. They do fight a lot, though. Most of it is Moon trying his best to tell Sun that he's basically full of shit and not seeing things right after Sun starts something, but Sun's at the point where he's gotta learn by consequence. Part of the reason he's so bad is bc 1: hes been infected by the virus for so long now and 2: in his grief, anger, and resentment he's learned to live with it rather than fighting it.

But the sequel is gonna be a feel-good story! Falling in love w/ the reader all over again, i want things to get cleared up - or at least some kind of middle ground between Sun and Moon - the whole sha-bang.

[aight-griffin]

I was talking to one of my friends about shitty battle shonen tropes, and idk if this one has a name, but I like to call it the Obligatory Romance.

A lot of you probably figured what I’m talking about just with that first image, it’s everywhere in battle shonen. The protagonist has a love interest for the whole series, but nothing romantic actually happens between them(except for one emotional scene and a fuck ton of pining), then they’re married in the epilogue. Any real romantic dynamic is never established beyond the absolute minimum, because the characters never actually get into a relationship.

The most annoying thing is that the romance is always essential to the love interest, the very core of their character and motivation, and it means jack shit for the protagonist. Sasuke is absolutely instrumental to Sakura’s motivation for all 700 chapters of Naruto, while she could reasonably be removed from the entire franchise and Sasuke’s arc would remain mostly intact.

It’s romance out of obligation, like the author put it in just to check a box. After all, someone needs to have their kids so the epilogue can set up a sequel series.

There’s a reason ships like BakuDeku and NaruSasu are popular, they include real chemistry and a level of plot importance that the actual ships simply lack. Sword Art Online is bad by lots of measurements, but Kirito and Asuna 1) have chemistry for days, and 2) fucked in episode 8.

It isn’t a make or break for me, I still really like a lot of these series, but I also think they could benefit from taking the Oda approach and just making the protagonist ace.

[tillthelandslide]

Insufferable Arsehole Part 8: When We Are Together - Matty Healy Series

A/N: sooo you may have seen my poll, you may not have, but I've come to the decision to post what I have written for this series and then take a little break from it... I love this series but recently have been feeling a bit stuck with it, I have so many ideas but I'm sure where they fit and whether there even is an end to this story. My goal is to eventually finish it so don't worry! I hope you guys are okay with that. The support has been amazing so thank you all so much.

In other news (for my Ross girlies) I will be posting the first chapter to my new series, entitled Pressure, very soon!

Warnings: bit long, probably spelling mistakes

Series Masterlist

Part 7

Lou's phone ringing on her bedside table is what stirs her from her peaceful slumber. The dozing man next to her awakens with a groan as she awkwardly untangles her limbs from him, apologising for the loud interference as she removes herself from the bed. His soft features find hers and he smiles before his eyes are drifting shut once more. She quickly throws on his shirt which rests on the ground amongst the rest of their clothes.

She stubs her toe on the bedside table as she grabs her phone, the name "Rose" lights up her screen, a picture of her and the drummer of her band can be seen.

"Fuck" she says attempting to shake of the pain, Matty mumbles a "you alright love?" His face now buried in his pillow.

"Yeah go back to sleep" she says, answering the phone, covering up the speaker until she's on their balcony. The morning breeze is far too cold and considering she's just wearing Matty's Tshirt, she'd be surprised if she didn't get frostbite.

"Lou, are you there?" She hears her friend say.

"Yes I'm here sorry" she looks at her phone seeing the clock said 5am, she puts the phone back to her ear 

"Rose I love you but it's 5 in the morning, what time is it there?" She asks, not keeping a track of what time it is in her home town like she usually would.

"That doesn't matter, what matters is that I've just seen pictures of you and Matty holding hands and cuddling. Last time we spoke you said you're seeing how things go" she explains. Shit  they did get caught she thinks , it's fine Matty said we will deal with the consequences together.

"That's exactly what I'm doing, Rose. Seeing how things go, I'm not filtering myself for anyone, I'll do what I want and that's exactly what Im doing" she explains. Rose chuckles on the other end of the line, Lou's words perfectly described herself, never one to filter herself for the sake of others.

"We respect that, you know we do. One of the things we love most about you... We're just worried you're going to get hurt" Rose explains, Rose was one of the most genuine people she had ever met, she was similar to Hann in the fact she would say it how it is although perhaps a little more carelessly and sometimes brutally than Hann.

"We? So you've spoken to Mia and Cami too... Great'' she says, eyes rolling. Mia was the band's bassist (and her sister) and Cami was their lead guitarist.

"I mean... Mia is blindly happy for you, you know what she's like" Rose says.

Mia is around 5 years younger than Lou (having joined the band reasonably late, a fact that Ross and Lou had jokingly argued about as the band didn't have a bassist for a while), they had always been close but one thing they loved about their relationship was they weren't dependent on each other. Despite spending all her time with the 1975 in her childhood, only George had met her band members, they weren't very interested in becoming friends with them, far too happy in doing their own thing.

Mia lived in London for almost all of their childhood, they'd only see each other during holidays or special occasions, something about that dynamic made them closer (which most people found odd). Mia had played bass since she was around 8 and she had joined the band 5 years after they got famous.

"I love her... She's my sister and all but she'd be happy if I found a penny on the floor" Lou says making Rose chuckle, knowing it was true. Despite having different Mum's, their families always encouraged the sisters to appreciate life intricacies, the small things.

"We're just looking out for you L" she says, the nickname only her band members gave her. She remembers the first time George visited the band on tour during one of the 75s breaks, he practically cringed at the nickname, she was and always would be his "Lou" and the fact others had different nicknames for her didn't sit too well at first.

"I know" she says, knowing they never did anything with less than pure intentions. "but listen... We're a family here, if anything happens they'll protect me" she says, not that she needed protecting. Rose finds her heart sinking slightly at her friend's words, as if their own band weren't a family. But she saw the way Lou was with the 75, how undoubtedly happy she was and she knew to push the selfish thought down.

"You seem really happy" Rose finally says and Lou smiles at that.

"I am..." She can't help but smile widely. She could easily go on to tell Rose how she's having the time of her life, how she's never felt this happy, how something feels different with the guys (something she has been struggling to explain), how Matty makes her feel seen and loved (something no guy has come close to before). But she doesn't, wanting it to be her secret for now.

"I'm also really fucking cold right now" she laughs, goosebumps rising to her skin as the wind makes Matty's shirt blow around her.

"Why?" Rose is laughing at her then.

"I'm on a balcony"

"why?" She's asking again, the two of them laughing.

"Matty's asleep... Like I said it's 5am" she says and she hears her friend sigh on the other end of the line, a happy sigh.

"Matty aye? Sharing a room are you?"

"Shut up" she chuckles. Her voice lowers and she whispers her next words "he told me he loved me Rose".

"Wow. That's big" she says and Lou's nodding even though Rose can't see her.

"Do you love him?" Rose asks, already suspecting the answer.

"Yeah"

"Well shit... Guess we're coming to the next show then. Got to see what Matthew Healy is like nowadays. Can't be the same old Ratty you used to kick about with" she says making Lou laugh loudly.

"I miss you guys" she says, the 1975 were her family, everything was intense. But with her own band she had fun (not that she didn't with the boys) but it was different.

"Is George still as fit as the good old days?" She asks and Lou can't help but laugh again.

"Pack it in, you know he's in a happy, healthy relationship" Lou explains.

"Too bad, don't know how you didn't jump his bones every time you were with him"

"Ew... Just ew. He's like my brother"

"And that Ross.... Damn. And I hear hanns going to be a daddy? That's hot."

"Okay Rose I'm hanging up now" Lou says and with two I love yous, she's slipping back into their room, seeing Matty awake and scrolling through his phone, smiling down at the screen.

"You know we look quite cute in these pictures" he says, eyes meeting hers. She's quick to jump on the bed, chin hooking onto his shoulder to peek at his screen. They did look cute and more importantly they looked happy. She smiles as Matty screenshots the photos.

"Deal with the consequences together, yeah?" Matty says, Lou nods at him, smiling as his lips press against hers.

"The first of which will be a very angry Jamie... And probably Gregg too" she says, Matty scrunching up his nose in agreement.

"Yeah...." His voice trails off making her giggle.

"I don't care... I'm happy"

"Me too love" he says, another kiss being delivered to her mouth.

"Rose called, think her and the girls want to come to the next show" she explains and Matty nods, typing something on his phone to Jamie, asking him to sort out their travel and to save them three tickets.

"Thank you" she says.

"If I remember correctly... They don't like me all that much do they?" He says and she's the one furrowing her nose at him, shaking her head.

"Guess I'll have to prove them wrong" and she almost dies at those words, lips harshly pressing against his. He groans as he pushes against her, her back hitting the bed.

"You're insatiable" he says, making her nod as her hands pull him in by the hips, forcing them to come into contact with hers in a sharp grind. She quickly finds him hard and resting against his abdomen and it doesn't take long before he's inside her.

"Jesus Christ" he groans, throwing his head back as her hands interweave into his curls. He's never going to get used to this.

----------------------------------------------------------

"You're supposed to tell me shit like this before you just decide to do it" Jamie says, his voice raised slightly, not shouting but firm and pointed.

Matty was standing in the centre of the room. George, Hann, Ross, John, and Jamie were all watching from the opposite side of the room, each of their arms crossed, ready to defend the pair if they needed to.

Carly (who had arrived this morning) and Polly were seated next to Lou on a large leather sofa.

"Come on man! It's not that big of a deal, we were holding hands, not making out" Matty says and Lou can't help but smirk.

"You know we have rules" Jamie says, making Matty (and all the boys scoff)

"I mean he's done worse" George says and Jamie whips around to see him, his finger pointing at the large man. Lou can't help but chuckle.

"Don't you start" and then he's turning to her now and her smile drops "and you"

"How am I supposed to explain this to your manager huh? How are we supposed to explain this to the fans?" Jamie asks. He was never really one to worry about these kinds of things, things were usually very chilled with him, it was one of the reasons the guys loved having him as their manager.

"Is it really that big of a deal?" Lou asks, Matty's eyes find hers and soften.

"Jamie listen" Lou says and the boy's manager finds her eyes and then soften, he had grown to have a soft spot for her "ignore Matty for a second" she says making everyone including the curly haired man laugh.

"When have I ever done anything problematic?" She asks and Jamie can't think of a single time, she was a saint (in the eyes of their fans anyway, Matty knew what she was truly like behind closed doors).

"We will do whatever you and Gregg want us to do... We just got caught up in the moment, okay?" Lou says and Jamie smiles at that, appreciating her words.

"You know what... Do whatever... We will deal with it" Jamie then says, almost completely giving in. The whole group smiled at that, the spirits lifted almost immediately. He goes to leave the room, turning back at the last minute.

"You're both serious about this right? This isn't some fuck around?" Jamie asks, already knowing the answer but wanting to confirm. They both share a look before looking at him again. They nod and he smiles.

"Well... Good" he says before leaving.

George hugs Matty as Lou is hugged by both Carly and Polly. She hadn't gotten much time to spend with the girls so when Matty's eyes found hers, although he wants nothing more than to spend time with her, he lets her have her own time with them.

"Look at you, you're glowing" Lou says, smiling at her friend. Carly smiles back at her thinking the same thing about Lou.

"How are you feeling? Can I get you anything?" Her words are rushed and Carly laughs, as does Poly.

"Lou calm down, I'm fine. Thank you though" she says sweetly. They continue talking and at some point Poly leaves them and soon after Hann joins, hooking a protective arm around his wife as his other hand toys with his wedding band. Lou always cries at the sight, feeling awfully sentimental today.

The couple stare at each other for a few seconds, smiles resting on their lips before they're both turning to look at her.

"Why are you both looking at me like that?" Lou asks, making them laugh.

"We've been meaning to ask you something" Adam says, words quiet so only the three of them could hear.

"We were wondering," Carly says, looking at her husband before looking at Lou again.

"When the baby is born... If you'd be godmother" Carly says and as skin as the words come out, tears are springing to Lou's eyes.

"Wh-what?" She stutters, completely unsure why they'd ask her of all people, she appreciates it nonetheless but is very confused.

"Truth is we wouldn't even be married if it wasn't for you" Adam says.

"That's not true" Lou says and Carly raises her eyebrows at her.

"Regardless... You've always been so welcoming of me, and so so supportive. And whenever I'm here, you're always the first to check up on me and the baby" Carly speaks, hands resting over her bunk as Adam nods next to her.

"You don't have to say yes. We'd just love it if you did.  You know what you mean to us" Hann says and Lou is pulling them both into a tight hug, careful of the bump resting between them.

"I'd be honoured"

----------------------------------------------------------

The next evening Lou is pacing backstage at another venue, anxiously awaiting the arrival of her band of which included her baby sister (definitely not a baby but oh well). They had planned something special for this show, seeing as her bandmates were going to be there, the boys asked her to sing a song on her own, any song she liked.

"Lou you're making me anxious, stop pacing" George says, leisurely chilling on one of the sofas, Matty sitting next to him, a smirk resting on his face.

"Why are you smirking?" She quips at the man, who's curls have been tamed by an obscene amount of hair gel.

"Like seeing you like this, it's cute" he says, pulling her into his lap as she walks past them, stopping her pacing altogether.

"That's better" Matty says, making Lou giggle as he swarms her neck with light pecks.

"Absolutely disgusting" George says, standing to leave the pair of them.

"He's just jealous," Lou says, making Matty nod.

"Why are you anxious darling?" Matty says, nudging his nose lightly against hers.

"I haven't seen them in a while, I've missed them like crazy and I'm just.... I'm worried they're going to see what I'm like with you guys... And like hate me or something" Lou admits.

"You're crazy" Matty says, laughing at her "I don't know how many times I have to tell you love, but no one could hate you" he says, his words so simple but completely easing her thoughts.

"I love you" she says freely now, the man smiles widely down at her, pressing his mouth to hers sweetly.

"I love you more"

They hear a door open behind them, Lou jumping from her place in his lap, turning around to see three women standing in the hallway with Jamie. One of which runs towards her, screaming loudly, she jumps and Lou catches her as she laughs.

"Oh my god Mia you're not a child, I can't carry you anymore" Lou says, struggling to hold her sister up.

"I have fucking missed you bro" Mia says as she's placed back down, punching her older sister in the arm.

"Ouch" Lou says, all of the boys watch with their mouths open. Lou was talking to someone who looked almost identical to her, although her sister's hair was much lighter than hers and shorter too, her skin slightly paler, far less tattoos covering her body.

Rose and Cami are pulling her into a tight hug next, the four of them nattering like a bunch of mothers waiting to pick up their kids.

"Oh shit. Sorry" Lou turns to the guys who are still watching, mouth agape at the four of them. George is quick to stand up, pulling them all into hugs, muttering "long them no sees" to each of them.

"Of course you know George..." Lou says as she begins to introduce the guys. Every single one of them fawns over the man, making her roll her eyes, pointing her fingers at them, telling them to stop which makes George laugh. He knew they did it on purpose, to get under Lou's skin but he can't help but let it get to his ego too.

George wraps up Mia in a hug "how's my favourite sister doing?" He asks just to annoy Lou.

"Ha ha very funny" Lou says, pushing her best friend lightly as he wraps his arm around her too.

"This is Ross, Adam but we call him Hann, Carly: Adam's wife and mother of his unborn child" she says pointing to each of them, making everyone laugh at her words about Carly. She doesn't mention that she's going to be the child's godmother, wanting to savour that fact for a while.

"Penny, Jamie, John and... Matty" she's smiling at them and all the girls smile at everyone introduced, waving at them. The girls can't help but notice how Matty stares at her, his eyes set on no one else but her, a huge smile resting on his mouth. One look and they could see he was smitten.

"This is Rose our drummer, Cami our lead guitarist and my little sister Mia, who's our bassist" she smiles as she speaks, hooking her arm around Mia at the last instance.

"How did I not know you had a sister?" It's Matty who's speaking, almost all of the girls scowling at him, apart from Mia. He shares a look with the other guys, all of them shrugging, all of them knew she had a sister (although only George had met her) , how the fact had escaped the attention of Matty they did not know. He feels awful that he doesn't know, and wonders why he hadn't told her.

"Don't talk about me then sis? Oh how you wound me" her sister says, making her laugh and nudge her.

"Na, just kidding, it's all good. I lived in London, same dad, different mum" Mia explains, coming to pull Matty into a hug to properly introduce herself. Lou stands there watching them, finger in-between teeth as she watches how Matty freezes up awkwardly, the scene makes her chuckle.

"Mia stop being weird" she says, pulling her sister back from Matty.

The rest of them talk then, the girls talking to various people at scattered times. Mia stands with Matty and Lou, catching up about all sorts of things. Rose and Cami talk to Ross, Hann and Carly.

"Who's the one with the bun again?" Mia asks and Lou rolls her eyes as Matty smirks, knowing exactly why she's asking.

"That would be Ross, OUR bassist' ' Matty says, smirk clear on his face. His arm was wrapped tightly around Lou's waist, holding him to her. Mia thought they looked cute together and she couldn't help but smile at the huge smile resting on her older sister's face. She had never seen her this happy before.

"That's Ross?!" Mia almost shouts, catching the attention of the tall bearded man.

"Shut up" Lou says, Mia and her share a look, confusing Matty slightly. Mia was one of the only people that knew Lou and Ross shared a kiss when they were teenagers for they told each other everything.

"He's gotten a lot fitter than when you knocked about with them" Mia says, her London accent a lot more prominent as she speaks.

"You need to stop" Lou says, Matty and her laughing at the slightly smaller girl. Matty's eyes flick between them, eyebrows raising.

"Sorry I can't get over how similar you look, you seriously have different mum's? " Matty says, making them both groan.

"Oh god don't say that"  they say in unison, Matty holds his hands up in surrender at the daggers they shoot.

"Forget I mentioned it" he's being pulled away by someone else then. Leaving the two sisters alone.

"I mean... I like him" Mia says, grasping her sister by the shoulders. Rose joins their conversation.

"That's because you didn't see how completely unbearable he was when we were kids" Rose says, beer in hand that Lou is completely unsure how she got.

"Alright Rose we get it. Give the poor guy a chance, people change" Cami speaks and Lou is thankful to her.

"So tell us, are the rumours true?" Rose then asks.

"What rumours?" Lou asks, eyebrows furrowing at her bandmate.

"The rumours when we were kids.... That he's a good shag" rose says, always one to be forefront with her questions, something which often got them into trouble.

"You know what, you carry on mingling, I need a fag" Lou chuckles before finding her way out of one of the side doors, she hears them all laughing behind her.

The cigarette quickly finds its place in-between her lips, lighter sparking, the end burning as she breathes it in. She hears the door open and then shut behind her but she doesn't turn. She doesn't need to, she can smell two familiar scents: one of the man she loved and one of her life long best friend.

There's a silence for a few seconds as they light their own cigarettes, Matty's arm hooking around her waist when he sees her shiver.

"Sorry Lou but your sister is fitter than the last time I saw her" George says, making her cringe and making Matty chuckle.

"Ew. Just ew. And you have a girlfriend" Lou says simply, she doesn't miss how Matty leans in whispering a "you're fitter" into her ear. It's kind of a weird compliment, she never once compared herself to her sister, but she can't deny the way his words make her thighs tighten. She suppose it's because he's the one saying it and she's the one he wants when there's plenty of other beautiful girls, including the ones back inside, who he could easily get.

"They seem nice" Matty then says, loud enough for them both to hear.

"They are. But they're fucking mental though. Sorry if Rose is a bitch to you, her heart is in the right place" Lou explains, talking to Matty now, ignoring her best friend.

"It's okay, I get it. I was a dick remember?" Matty asks and Lou and George nod at him, all three of them laughing at his words.

"Cami is an absolute sweetheart so you don't have to worry about anything with her... Maybe just" she turns to Matty, placing a hand on her chest "watch what you say" this makes George laugh.

"And Mia... Keep her away from Ross will you? She's small but she will break that man" Lou says, her words shocking the two men, making them laugh anyway.

"Really?" George says, raising his eyebrows "maybe he needs to be broken" and Lou is groaning at his words.

"Don't you even try George" she says, the man flicking his fag to the floor, running back inside, giggling like an absolute child.

"George!" She shouts, giving in when the door swings back. She turns back to Matty then, who is smiling widely at her. His curls have once again been tamed by an unruly amount of hair gel, she almost frowns at the fact she can't run her fingers through the strands.

"Remind me why you didn't tell me you had a sister?" He asks and she frowns at him, thinking of an answer, not really having a definite one.

"Hmmm... I dunno. Guess I never thought to tell you before... And now... Think I was too wrapped up in you to tell you" she says, feeling a bit bad that she hadn't mentioned her own sister.

"As much as I love that... Told you I wanted to know everything about you" he says and she nods.

"I know... You'll get to know her now though, she loves you already so you definitely don't have to worry about her" she seals her words with a brief kiss.

"You seem different around them" Matty admits, making her eyebrows furrow, not knowing whether the meaning behind his words was a good or bad difference.

"How?" She asks, he smooths his hands over her waist, pulling her closer as his back leans against the concrete of the wall.

"You're like the leader of their pack, they all look to you, you shine" he admits and his eyes sparkle as he speaks "like seeing you shine". She doesn't quite know what to say but opts for the truth.

"I've actually been enjoying not being the frontman for a bit... Happy to be in the background and bask in your light" she says, his heart flutters at her words.

"Oh honey..." His fingers tucking a piece of hair behind her ear that had fallen, choosing to gently grip her chin instead of dropping back to his side.

"You've got your own light, even at the back... Everyone's looking at you" he says and she doesn't believe his words. She had a few of her own fans come to their gigs but the majority were there to see the boys and Matty, of course because it was their show, she was just there to help. She shakes her head at him, making him chuckle.

"Wish you could see yourself the way I see you... The way thousands of people see you. Trust me darling... You shine" he seals his lips against hers now, not letting her utter another word. His words had some truth to them that she didn't see, the guys often found themselves watching her even on that stage, she radiated something more than any of them could give.

And Matty especially couldn't take his eyes off her, she was everything, up on that stage, in a coffee shop, amongst friends, under the covers in their room: she shined.

Their lips move passionately against each other, neither able to get enough of each other. He's pulling her as she pulls him, trying to get closer even though it wasn't possible.

Neither of them had spoken about the fact that in two days they would be at the end of the first leg of their tour. They'd been setting off on a three week break, every single person had made plans except the two of them, too wrapped up in each other to have spoken about it.

The door creaks open next to them and they hear someone cough. They pull apart, both looking to see sweet Cami standing there.

"They're calling you on stage" Lou appreciates that she makes no crude comments, and doesn't groan at the sight of them.

They leave to play then, the crowd like no other tonight. She doesn't know if it's because she has her bandmates and her sister here or maybe because things are going so well with Matty, but the smile on her face never leaves. They play song after song, each one better than the last and when the second half rolls round and Matty introduces them, he surprises her.

"So we have two more shows after this one... And then we're on a three week break" he mentions it now and suddenly it dawns on her.

" I haven't made any plans... I've been a little distracted..." He says, looking over to her, making the crowd go mental "the truth is I've been having the time of my life with someone truly truly amazing and I'm the happiest I've ever been" he says. She thinks that his words are good enough for her for now, that's all the fans really need to know.

"This tour... We had someone amazing join us... I wasn't overjoyed at first, everyone on this stage right now would tell you that... Including her, especially her" he says and they all chuckle to themselves, Lou's eyes never wavering from his.

"But my god... George" he says turning around to face his best mate "thank you" he says, hands flat against each other, raising them to his chin as he tilts his head.

"Thank you to these boys right here" he says, pointing to Hann, George and then Ross "for making the best decision ever and bringing this wonderful person on tour with us" Matty says, finally pointing to her. Some fans may think he's just being sentimental, thanking her for joining them this far. Some will know the true meaning to his words, all but confirming what they were.

"Our wonderful Lou, would you come here for a second please?" He asks, and exactly as they planned she walks over to him, smiling as he pulls her into a tight hug before they pull back, his hand resting on her shoulder.

"Now you've got an absolute treat tonight" Matty says and someone passes her, her acoustic guitar. Matty moves from his stool and lets her sit there.

"The amazing Lou everyone" he says before he's leaving, everyone leaves the stage then, joining the girls backstage and watching from the sidelines.

"God this is daunting" she says into the microphone, making the crowd laugh "Yeah I know this is my job but I haven't been up here on my own for a hot minute" they laugh again.

She's shining again Matty thinks, god he loved how she shines.

"Boys please come back" she says, everyone laughing again.

"Okay okay" she says, shaking her nerves off as she begins checking if the guitar is in tune.

"I need to say a couple of things before I start, unplanned I know" she says, saying her last words to the guys on the side of the stage.

"Can't let Matty say all that without me saying anything" she laughs and she sees him smile at her.

"My band is here tonight" the crowd screams "my little sister"

"And I can't remember a time where I felt as happy as I do now. We're a family here at the 1975... I know that more than anything else" she says her words making the boy's eyes fill with tears.

"I guess I just want to say thank you to the whole team... And to my four boys, you know I'm not the best with words so I've been wanting to do something to show you guys how much you mean to me instead. So I thought I'd sing you a beautiful song. One which you wrote. This is for you" she says, beginning to play the beginning chords to "When We Are Together".

She plays a stripped back version of the song, somehow making it more sentimental, the boys find themselves hugging each other backstage.

Matty stares at her intently as she sings, the voice he loves so much filling the entire arena, he's in awe that the entire audience is silent, simply listening to her sing.

"You ask about the cows, wearin' my sweater

It's somethin' 'bout the weather that makes them lie down

The only time I feel I might get better is when we are together" she sings, her voice soft and sweet, undeniably beautiful.

She sings the song to the end, only then looking up at the audience. Her own eyes glisten with tears that are yet to fall but they do when she sees everyone holding up their phone, a few people crying their own tears. The boys are quick to join her on stage, hugging her tightly in a group hug before they return to their places on the stage.

"I love you" Matty mouths to her making her smile and mouth an "I love you too" back. Neither caring that thousands of people were watching them.

----------------------------------------------------------

George somehow ropes them all into a night out. Explaining that they hadn't had one yet despite being nearly at the end of their first leg. It was a rare occurrence for the band not to have had one, but they had all agreed that until they were all settled they wouldn't have a crazy night out.

But as the first leg was coming to an end, they had all agreed it was much needed and well deserved. Plus, the addition of Lou's bandmates had them all in high spirits.

"Got to give the newbies a proper 75 welcome" Ross says, wrapping an arm around Lou, pulling her into his side.

"Hey I'm not a newbie anymore" she argues back, jokingly shoving the man above her, shrugging away from his grip.

"But you haven't been out with us losers since we were teenagers" he quips back and she can't argue with that.

So they all rushed back to their hotel, the girls taking up Lou's room which was yet to be touched. Matty frowns as she disappears between the doors, leaving him to get ready on his own. Lou quickly showers, slicks back her hair into a high pony and applies some make up, not too much on her face but a dark eye, before joining the girls back in her room, wrapped up in a white robe.

"Feel like seeing how much that man has the hots for you?" Cami says, making Lou laugh as she searches through her suitcase. The girls seemed to have come prepared, suspecting that a night out would be on the agenda.

"We're not going anywhere fancy Cami, George knows some dj at this club and they've got us a booth" she explains, failing to mention that it was in the VIP section, something she didn't like to brag about. Cami holds up a silk dress with a deep v and a high slit, Lou shakes her head "too fancy".

Cami mutters an "okay okay" before she proceeds to throw more things from her suitcase, a mischievous look on her face as she puts together a few items.

One of which is a skirt that is far too short even for Lou, she had thrown all sorts of items in there, some of which she hadn't worn in ages.

"Cami that skirt it so fucking short" Lou says, unsure about it, and the slit that revealed half her thigh. Cami proceeds to throw the skirt at her, along with a deep v lace bodysuit and a cropped blazer.

"Just try it on" she says, the other girls nodding. Lou sighs deeply.

"Don't encourage her" she says, pointing to the other girls.

She makes her way to the en-suite bathroom, removing her robe before putting on the assortment of clothes Cami had selected. She finds herself smirking at her reflection, her ego was far from big but she knew that one look from Matty and he'd be on his knees.

She makes her way back into the room, her bandmates gasping at her.

"That's it. That's the one. I'm a genius" Cami says, placing a kiss on each of her cheeks.

"I'd do you" Rose says, making them all laugh, her fingertips pluck the "M" necklace that rests against the centre of her chest, just falling in-between her boobs. Rose smiles and lifts an eyebrow.

"Can't lie... That's undeniably cute" she says and Lou smiles.

"I know I give him shit... And I will continue to until I see fit" rose says making Lou laugh "but it's obvious he's madly in love with you... And you seem really happy" she says and Lou nods at her.

"I am... I don't even remember what it was like before... I hated him because I thought he hated me... As soon as I found out he didn't, everything kind of just fell in to place" Lou explains, mia standing up to hug her sister.

The other girls get ready after that, Lou helping them do their hair and make up, hearing the guys laughing from outside.

Rose wears a simple black dress that sits tightly on her body, Cami settles for a black pair of skinny jeans and a lace bralette, whilst Mia adorns leather trousers and black one shoulder bodysuit.

"You guys are going to give them heart attacks," Lou says, making all the girls laugh.

They then make their way into the main room, Lou the last to leave, before she does she hears George say "Was wondering why you took so long but now I understand. Look lovely girls" he says, his words fairly tame in comparison to what she'd thought he'd say.

"Where's the woman of the hour?" He jokes before she steps into the threshold. Her eyes find Mattys almost instantly and she can't help but smirk at him.

He was sitting on one of the sofas, legs spread wide almost as if he's ready for her to take her place in them. He shoots up as soon as he sees her, tugging at the shirt that rests almost uncomfortably around his neck now.

He's dressed in black suit trousers, a plain white T Shirt tucked in with a black shirt thrown over the top, the buttons almost all undone except two at the bottom, the shirt is sheer and she holds back moan as she sees him. His hair isn't tamed by gel now, unruly curls sat atop his head, ready to be tugged.

"Damnnn" George says, hand reaching for hers and getting his best friend to do a twirl, which makes her laugh. She didn't notice Matty coming over to her but she sure as hell notices the look he gives George, one in which she had never seen before.

His eyes warned his best friend to watch his mouth and George instantly stepped away, he was being territorial and she was surprised with how much she liked the feeling.

"Baby..." He practically whispers, hands coming to find her waist, gently pulling her body to his, his touch is unsure, as if he thought he wasn't deserving of it. Behind them, everyone begins talking to each other, letting the couple be.

"You look..." He swallows deeply and the sight kills her. She's glad her outfit had the outcome she had desired but as his dark eyes find hers she finds herself lost for words. Her eyebrows raise up at him, begging him to finish his sentence.

"Devine..." He says, as if she's a meal to devour. She couldn't care in the slightest, she loved how he much he wanted her and how little he tried to hide it.

"Hmm" she says, hands flat against his chest, she doesn't even beginning to describe how good he looks before George is interrupting them.

"We should probably leave before these two start fucking" George says, making everyone chuckle.

The club is loud and George disappears the minute they arrive, talking to the DJ of the night who lets George take rein of the music for a bit. The others find themselves at their booth, drinks already waiting for them.

Matty's hand is firmly clasped on her thigh as his other arm hooks around the back of her. His hand comes to fit at the back of her neck and she finds herself loving the feel of it. His grasp wasn't too tight but wasn't exactly soft and she has to stop herself from pressing her lips against his.

Ross is sat opposite them talking to Mia, her hand rests on his knee as they talk over the loud music. Cami and Rose are already on the dance floor, laughing with each other as they danced and drank.

He leans into speak to her, having to place his mouth directly next to her ear for her to hear "saw about 6 different guys stare at you as we walked in love" he says, almost proud of the fact.

"Yeah?" She asks and he smirks.

"Don't blame them, you look fucking hot" he says, making her chuckle and lean into him.

"Bet it must feel nice knowing I'm yours huh?" She asks and his smirk falls, mouth agape for a beat before his lips find hers for a firm peck.

"You're not mine yet love, not really. You could go over to any one of them right now and do what you wanted" he speaks and she smiles at him, shaking her head at his words. His words which were just to test her. He wanted nothing more than for her to say his words weren't true.

"Its shame for them then isn't it?" She says making his eyebrows furrow, not knowing what she meant.

"Shame I want you and not them" she says, standing from the booth, hand finding his as she stands.

"Besides" she says, leaning down to him until her mouth grazes his ear, making him shiver "if I'm not yours... you should do something about that" she says before looking at Mia.

"Want to dance?" She asks and Mia smiles widely, standing almost instantly. Lou notices the clear frown on Ross' lips and she smiles, raising her eyebrows at the bearded man.

The two girls quickly make their way to the dance floor positioning themselves so they can be seen by the guys (who's eyes never leave them).

Ross and Cami are quick to find them, the four of them dancing with each other, laughing and drinking.

Lou feels a tap to her shoulder so she turns, looking up at a guy who she doesn't recognise, a 6 ft something guy who, if she wasnt completely smitten with Matty she would find attractive, he had curls too but they weren't the same as Matty's, he looks sweet, a we'll put together man who no doubt has a large sum to his name. She stands there awkwardly waiting for the man to speak.

"Sorry I saw you across the room and just had to say hi" he speaks the cliche line and she chuckles.

"Does that line usually work for you?" She shouts over the loud song that's playing, the girls behind her laughing.

"I don't know, it's the first time I'm using it, you tell me" he says smoothly and Lou chuckles again.

"Ah come on Lou, let him buy you a drink" Rose says and she knows she just wants to see Matty's reaction.

"Lou? Is that your name? A pretty name for a pretty girl" he says and she can't help but cringe a little.

"I'm actually here with-" she begins to say she's here with someone but is interrupted by rose again.

"No she's not, she's just being modest, buy her a drink, a martini" she says and Lou chuckles as they man smiles before leaving.

"I hate martinis" Lou says and rose smirks.

"I know, but I love them" she says leaning in to speak into her ear "turn around, it worked" rose says.

Lou turns and is suddenly flushed against Matty's chest, she stumbles but his hand quickly finds her waist, holding her against him.

"Hi" she smiles.

"Hi" he smiles back, looking down at her. His eyes flick to the bar where he sees the guy he was all but ready to pounce on if he made a single move. Lou turns her head to see who he's looking at and she smiles upon turnjng around to face him again.

Her hands rest against his shoulders as a slow beat plays, she steps towards him so they're closer.

"You don't have to worry about him" she whispers into his ear. His hands grip her hips as she begins to move against him.

"Hmm why's that?" He mumbles into her ear, lips finding their way to her neck.

"Think you already know Matty" she says, pulling back to look at him. Her eyes plead with him, begging him to just kiss her already.

"Because you're mine yeah?" He shouts smiling down at her. She simply nods and his eyes leave her for a second, flicking to someone behind her again.

"Sorry mate" he speaks to whoever is behind her, probably the guy from a minute ago, but Lou's eyes are training on the curly man holding her "she's my missus" the words leave his mouth before he even processes them.

She hears a grumble behind her and then Matty's eyes are on hers again.

"Your missus huh? Like the sound of that" she pulls his mouth to hers then, lips pressing against one another with fervour. Him using that word so casually awakens something in her (and seemingly him too).

He tries to speak through their kiss, eventually having to break away.

"Be my girlfriend? Like proper girlfriend" he asks, it was not the way he had intended on asking her but he was desperate now, not wanting to go another minute without asking her.

"Wanted to ask you in a better setting than this love but-" her lips are on his again, shutting him up. She goes to say yes but suddenly a lanky man is pulling the pair into a tight hug.

"Fucking love you guys" George says, making the two of them laugh loudly.

"How much have you had to drink?" She laughs and he smears a kiss to her cheek before doing the same to Matty.

"Question is... Why haven't you?" His words make no sense but they allow him to pull them back to the booth and allow him to make the whole group (save for Matty) do a few shots. Lou doesn't drink as much as the rest of the group, wanting to support Matty but also wanting to remember the night, for it was already an amazing one.

As the night progresses, Ross and Mia are dancing together, her hands flat against his chest as their bodies moved against one another.

Matty and Lou were flush against the wall in the corner of the room, hiding from everyone else, needing some time to be alone.

"You never answered my question" he says as his head tucks into her neck, lips pressing against the skin.

"Kind of got interrupted" she sighs, hands threading through the curls at the nape of his neck.

"Yeah George keeps fucking doing that tonight" He pulls back to look at her and she smiles.

"Yes I'll be your girlfriend" she says and he mirrors her, wide smiles adorning both of their faces.

"Yeah? Don't care that I asked you in the middle of some sweaty club" he asks and she shakes her head.

"No, because it's you. I'd of said yes no matter what Matty" and the confession has him blushing deeply, pulling her into him to place a loving kiss to her mouth.

"Didn't get to finish what you were saying to me earlier either... Some best friend g is" Matty says, needing to hear what she wanted to say.

"Yeah... Was going to say how good you looked" she says, smoothing her hands down his white Tshirt, fingertips pulling the shirt that rests either side of his frame, until their mouths meet again.

They break away a few moments later and his eyes wander to the centre of the dancefloor where Ross and Mia can be seen.

"Told George to keep her away from that man, she'll break his heart" Lou groans eyes finding where Matty was looking and he laughs at her words.

"You know I know about that night right" Matty says as his eyes snap back to hers, looking down at her as she frowns up at him, not knowing what she was talking about.

"What happened between you and Ross" Matty says, a smirk resting against his lips as Lou's mouth falls open.

"What- how?" She asks, mouth agape, lost for words.

"He's my best friend love, told me as soon as he knew I had feelings for you" he says, thumb drifting along her cheek.

"And? What do you think about it?" She asks, searching his face for any signs of him being annoyed at her.

"Well that depends..." He asks, a darkness to his words, lips pressing against hers, confusing her.

"Depends on what?" She murmurs against his mouth, pulling at his shirt, needing him closer to her.

"What was it like?" He asks, pressing his mouth to hers the moment he finished talking.

"Want the truth?" She asks and he nods against her mouth as his tongue finds hers. She allows them to fight for a moment until she lets his push harshly against hers, making her core flutter and letting him lead the kiss.

She pulls away from him for a second, dark eyes finding his and she smirks.

"It was hot... At the time" she says and she smirks down at her.

"Ross said the same thing" he says and Lou's eyebrows raise.

"Yeah?" Mattys hand drifts along her waist, landing against her hip, pulling her flush against him, moving their bodies to the beat of the music. Her arm hooks over his shoulder, clinging onto him as his hips ground down against hers.

He nods down at her and she finds herself confused as to why he's smirking still.

"If he told you that... Why are you smirking?" She asks, moaning into his mouth as his lips press against hers again.

"Because... It was a childhood makeout, doesn't mean anything... Fizzled out anyway" Matty says, repeating what Ross had explained to him. His lips find her neck again and she sighs.

"Hmm.. what if I said otherwise?" She says, purely teasing him. His head snaps away from her neck, finding her eyes, seriousness now covering his features.

"That's just mean love" he says, and she smirks up at him now, he doesn't find it funny and she's quick to drop the act. Softly playing with his hair as anger clouds his eyes.

"Baby I'm joking" she says, pressing a soft kiss to his cheek, drifting them down to his neck and up to the shell of his ear.

"Doesn't mean anything... You're the one I want. My boyfriend" her last words are what gets him to snap back to how he was moments prior. It's what makes him press his mouth back to hers and grind his hips down to hers.

"Say it again" he murmurs into her mouth.

"My boyfriend"

"Fuck" his tongue roughly presses against hers and her hold on him tightens as pleasure increases throughout her body as she feels his hardened length pressing against her core.

"Want to get out of here?" He asks as he pulls away from her. She's quickly nodding up at him making him smirk.

"Good. Can't wait to get you out of this fucking skirt" he says, hand running along the hem of it, caressing her thigh. They quickly weave themselves out of the club, leaving their friends, leaving Lou's sister who is likely still with Ross.

----------------------------------------------------------

Their naked bodies are sprawled out on the bed of their hotel room, Matty is lying on his front as Lou is at his side. Her fingers drift along the expanse of his back, the muscles contracting under her touch before she presses light kisses to the skin.

"We have a break in two days" he says, his voice quiet, looking over his shoulder to find his girlfriend, who's arms were resting against his back.

"Want to spend it with you" Matty says, turning onto his back, she allows him and then lies back down onto his stomach now.

"Id like that" she smiles, pressing a kiss against his stomach.

"Think we should go away for a bit... Just us" he says and she nods again.

"Need to go home too though, need to see my family... And G's" she says and Matty nods.

"My mum's been wanting to see you again. Hasnt seen you since we were kids" he says. A man of many confessions tonight it seems

"Id love that. She always loved me" she says and Matty nods.

"Yeah I know... Used to give me so much shit for treating you the way I did. Said I was a cruel boy" he admits, his words holding a certain sadness to them.

"It's okay, made up for it now" she says and she smiles slightly.

"I'm so sorry"

"Baby no. You don't have to apologise anymore. I forgive you" she says, lips pressing softly against his stomach again, moving upwards until pressing against his lips.

"I know... Just needed to say it" he says and she nods.

"Can't believe you're my girlfriend" he says, hands moving her hair from her face, wanting to truly see her.

"You know... I never really said sorry for how I was to you" she admits and he looks down at her.

"You weren't nearly as bad as me love"

"That's not the point though... I'm sorry Matty, truly I am. Things were so different back then, it's kind of crazy" she says and he nods.

"Why did you hate me?" He asks, looking down at her, she didn't mind being asked it, they hadn't actually spoken about it yet.

"Suppose at first I hated you because you hated me... I tried to get you to like me... But after a while I gave in... Hated you because despite everything the guys said about you, about you being this lovely guy who would do anything for his mates... You weren't that person with me and I desperately wanted you to be... So I hated you because you didn't allow me to have you that way" she admits, something she had never admitted aloud before.

"I never knew that" he says, frowning at her. She knows he's about to apologise again so she presses her mouth to his.

"I often saw the way you were with them, when you thought I wasn't looking and I felt jealous... You told me the guys got to have me in a way you didn't and it was the same for me" she says.

"God we really made a mess of things didn't we?" He says, chuckling at the whole messy situation. She smiles at him and nods.

"Think we've made up for it now don't you think?" She asks and he nods, kissing her sweetly.

"My girlfriend"

"Your girlfriend" she smiles.

"Think I'm ready to make it obvious were dating" he says and she nods.

"That sounds like a wonderful idea" she says lying down on his chest and listening to his heart beat until she falls asleep.

"I love you" he murmurs although she's asleep on his arms now.

"I've always loved you" he says before he feels himself drifting to sleep too.

Part 9

[weirdmageddon]

long mediation on jade and dave’s relationship - part 2

part 1 is here

this part is essentially about dave and jade’s personalities, their basic dynamic, and how it works. and addressing some things ive seen said about dave in moments that people remove from context because they dont weigh these contexts and prior ones. if you want a post that goes into dave’s attitude towards jade (conclusion: he cares about her a lot) here it is

part 2: switcheroo + misconceptions about dave's role in dave and jade's relationship

something interesting i realized while writing this is the thing about grimbark jade is that she is no nonsense when her normal self is all about nonsense and entertaining silly things because she can see the merit in them. in fact she is always having a chuckle caused by dave's sense of humor and im sure dave got used to interacting with jade like that so wtf with grimbark jade

EB: so i think i have to get TG to use his copy to save her! EB: but that jackass won't shut up and stop rapping and stuff. GG: hahaha GG: he is so silly! (p.293)

TG: snows a big chilly carpet of nobody gives a shit TG: like old man winter spread around his nasty mayonnaise and turned the landscape into his personal asshole sandwich GG: eww dave no TG: when i look around all i see is the miles of unharnessed snowmen im just too damn cool to build GG: no this is so lame GG: i am hearing an insane and stupid guy say stupid idiot things while wearing dumb sunglasses for lame morons! TG: whoa jade with the fucking haymaker TG: i need to go look for my teeth on the canvas as soon as shit stops spinning and there stops being like ten of you GG: heheheh GG: why dont we play in the snow later (p.3024)

GG: i cant get over how tiny this thing is! GG: its so cute GG: so the baby frogs show up on this pad here? GA: Yes GG: i cant wait to try it GA: What Are You Laughing At There GG: oh GG: lol GG: dave just has a lot of funny stuff to say about all this GA: What Is He Saying GG: oh you know, a bunch of silly stuff GG: theres too much to copy/paste! GA: Hmm GG: here ill save it all to a file and send it to you -- gardenGnostic [GG] sent grimAuxiliatrix [GA] the file "daveisafunnyguy.txt" -- GA: Okay Im Laughing Pretty Hard At All That GG: hahaha (p.3312)

JADE: *snicker* JOHN: what? JADE: nothing JOHN: is someone messaging you through the game? JADE: hehe JOHN: who is it? JADE: pffff! JOHN: dammit, jade... JADE: its davesprite, hes playing too JOHN: oh. JOHN: don't tell him any of our strategies. he is the enemy! JADE: we have strategies? JOHN: um... JOHN: ok, first, tell him we have strategies. then, don't tell him them. JADE: hahahahahahaha JOHN: oh god. JOHN: what is it now? JADE: did you know... JADE: davesprite is a funny guy? JOHN: meh, he's alright i guess. JOHN: i give most of his jokes a passing grade. sometimes as high as a solid b+! JADE: i just told him you said that JADE: davesprite says to tell you "youre basically welcome for being born 14 years ago and 1 year ago you ungrateful douche" JOHN: oh, like him taking credit for my existence isn't so old by now! (p.4732)

in a way i feel like their roles parallel dave and jade in the earlier acts from homestuck, but inverted (and twisted/not as nice cause grimbark jade is under nefarious influences)

dave approaches the world from a highly pragmatic position. his ego (in the purely psychoanalytical sense) that he holds himself to, shows to the world, and what he tends to reason through is one that’s about relaxed competence. he’s critical of unreasonable actions and takes it upon himself to guide others into being more efficient in practical, realistic ways. he sees that jade struggles in these initially but she readily accepts his help, which is more than glad to provide.

this doesn’t say anything bad about jade harley. this doesn’t make her stupid, or in need the saving from a knight in shining armor nor does it make dave condescending towards her. it’s information that he is able to provide and that she appreciates and trusts his assistance with while she sees through the things that she prioritizes like helping others with matters of hidden opportunities / the big picture and interpersonal needs which are completely out of dave’s league, something he highly respects but doesnt feel its his greatest asset towards other people like jade does. jade is very into science and gadgetry, but remember that she relies heavily on her sharp intuition rather than straight up pragmatism like dave would. jade really is exceptional and multitalented but she doesn’t know how she does the things she does half the time!

(p.790)

even though dave acknowledges this it doesn’t really bother him

TG: hey TG: oh TG: youre asleep again arent you TG: or do you even know if you are TG: i still dont know how that works TG: its like nothing means anything TG: its so cool getting hella chumped by your coquettish damn riddles all the time TG: i dont know why i believe anything you say im like the grand marshal of gross chumpage (p.829)

GG: i want to tell him happy birthday and ask him about his birthday package! TG: oh yeah TG: i was being sort of cagey and told him to check the mail cause i was wondering if mine came yet GG: i think it did! TG: yeah? GG: and i think mine came too TG: so uh TG: i guess you want to know if he likes it or something? GG: no!!!!!!! GG: he will not open it GG: he will lose it!!! TG: oh TG: uh TG: wow sorry to hear that i guess? GG: no its good actually! GG: because he will find it again later when he really needs it GG: which of course is why i sent it in the first place! TG: see like TG: i never get how you know these things GG: i dont know GG: i just know that i know! TG: hmm alright (p.382)

TT: Jade is connected with you? TT: Where did she get the discs? TG: i dont know how does she do any of the loopy batshit nonsense she does (p.1401)

but because she’s gotten by on intuition and her dreams for most things, she’s not as adapted to the rationale behind actions. dave can sense her struggling and wants to help because it’s basically his mission for everyone, not just jade. but that’s the information that jade is glad to be led by and continues to unconsciously prompt him with. she encourages his practical ways and doesn’t tell him to fuck off or just straight up ignore his advice which dave interprets as his strengths being needed by someone else

GG: dave! GG: are you busy? GG: i dont have much time! GG: i am about to make my entry item, and its a little confusing GG: i think the more players we add, the trickier they are to... um...... GG: activate! GG: like yours was GG: i figured we could brainstorm about it, while john fusses with the kernel GG: helloooooo? TG: nak nak nak GG: :o (p.2907)

TG: yeah honestly i figured wed have to do something like this TG: so i guess here we are doing it GG: doing what?? TG: well youre my server player remember GG: yes TG: i need you to deploy something first TG: in my apartment TG: in a few hours ill go back there and we can continue this GG: oh jeez, a few hours???? -- turntechGodhead [TG] ceased pestering gardenGnostic [GG] -- -- turntechGodhead [TG] began pestering gardenGnostic [GG] -- TG: yeah TG: as in a few seconds TG: im back at my place now GG: fastest hours :o TG: yeah TG: now TG: deploy the intellibeam laserstation GG: but that costs so much grist!!! TG: no it costs practically nothing TG: check out how much ive got GG: omg... GG: what does this thing do? TG: its mostly pretty stupid and useless TG: but itll come in handy here TG: it reads captcha codes GG: on the back of cards? TG: yeah GG: but GG: we can already read those! TG: some are too garbled and complicated TG: the human eye cant decipher them TG: needs sophisticated scanning technology TG: and artificial intelligence to figure it out GG: hmm GG: but isnt the whole point of captchas that only humans can read them? GG: and not robots??? TG: yeah well TG: thats why this is so dumb (p.3025 / 3026)

TG: thisll be the disc i use for your connection TG: while the original will stay bound to roses connection GG: so you will be the server for BOTH us ladies??? GG: you just keep getting smoother, i cant handle all this smoothness TG: well technically TG: i will be your server TG: and past me will stay as roses server TG: which is to say present me will TG: the one in the black suit GG: ohh... GG: i guess that makes sense TG: he can keep managing her for a while TG: until she sorta checks out soon and becomes totally useless TG: then he can start hopping around time like i did TG: make a ton of money and stuff TG: eventually become me TG: and become your server player GG: ok i think i understand that! TG: yeah see its not hard to get the hang of TG: in the meantime ill kind of loiter around this timeframe to help you out for a while GG: yessss thanks dave <3

TG: im just going to cut right to the chase and upgrade your alchemiter so you can avoid a lot of bullshit TG: ill give you some codes and you can punch cards and slip em into jumper blocks GG: yaaaaaaaaaaaay! (p.3030 - 3032)

jade has strengths that dave has weaknesses in too, which dave himself points out!!!

TG: ok so TG: the egg is now in a nest made of shitty swords and soft puppet ass TG: please advise GG: i think your sprite wants to hatch it! GG: awww TG: do you think thatll take more than four hours GG: hmm... GG: i dont know it looks like its pretty warm where you are TG: its hot as the sizzle side of the steak GG: maybe not too long then???? GG: i guess we'll find out! TG: maybe i should try to get it back TG: and put it in the microwave GG: :( (p.1507)

dave assumed the egg needed to be heated to break and allow him to enter the game, so his course of action is to go up there and get it himself and use whatever means are at his disposal. that is a logical, straightforward thing to do. he doesnt rely on uncertainty and blind trust that things will just work out when he has the ability to take action in a way that makes sense; that’s jade’s thing. but it turns out jade’s intuition for how to solve dave’s entry puzzle was right! it was actually a test of patience. he later says this to jade

GG: you guys are all so much better than me, i feel sooooo lame TG: we all start out somewhere TG: remember how i was scrambling up that tower to get that egg like an idiot TG: what the hell was i doing TG: i was like goddamn pooh bear in a tree reaching up his fat fuckin pooh paw for some mother fuckin honey GG: heehee TG: so even though im awesome now at one point i was plausibly likened to an autistic stuffed animal TG: and you even knew what to do TG: you told me how it worked all christopher robinning my ignorant ass about that egg TG: but i was all like IM A LITTLE BLACK RAIN CLOUD BITCH WATCH ME CLIMB TG: so maybe youre startin out with more sense than me GG: maaaybe GG: :) (p.3025)

hes pretty much like jade's hypeman but in his own sort of lowkey way and is actually sweetly reassuring to her. this includes davesprite btw

GG: those stupid things are impossible to kill :( TG: no you can kill them TG: youll get better dont worry (p.3024)

GG: hmmmm... GG: i dont know if i get that but ok! TG: well yeah TG: my thing is time yours is space TG: pretty different things TG: you GET things about space i dont TG: or you will GG: i will? TG: yup (p.3024)

DAVESPRITE: as a sprite im supposed to help him with his quest JADESPRITE: oh yeah JADESPRITE: im supposed to help jade too, but...... JADESPRITE: *sniffle* DAVESPRITE: shes doing alright dont worry about it JADESPRITE: ok, ill try... JADESPRITE: shes a lot more brave than me i think JADESPRITE: she brought me back thinking i could help her and all i did was disappoint her and everyone else JADESPRITE: you came back as a sprite and youre managing to do important things... JADESPRITE: but i just feel so scared and helpless DAVESPRITE: sounds like you came back because jade made the decision for you DAVESPRITE: i made the decision to come back myself maybe itd be different if you had the same chance JADESPRITE: i dont know if i would have if i had the chance JADESPRITE: but i would like to not feel so useless to everybody DAVESPRITE: i think everyones on top of this DAVESPRITE: theres not much for us to do anymore (p.3927)

DAVESPRITE: so jade must have done something right DAVESPRITE: to wake her up and get the forge going DAVESPRITE: dont know what she did though JADESPRITE: probably something amazing JADESPRITE: she is still working so hard to help everyone JADESPRITE: i guess i used to be that way... JADESPRITE: but ive completely forgotten how DAVESPRITE: are you sure (p.3945)

JADESPRITE: it reminds me of when i died JADESPRITE: and i was trying to wake john up JADESPRITE: i was scared then too JADESPRITE: but i didnt let the fear stop me from trying to save him DAVESPRITE: what would you want to do DAVESPRITE: if you werent scared JADESPRITE: i have no idea JADESPRITE: i guess try to help JADESPRITE: what is there to do? DAVESPRITE: well DAVESPRITE: i was going to bring this sword to dave JADESPRITE: oh noo JADESPRITE: does that mean youre going to leave? DAVESPRITE: no DAVESPRITE: i was gonna say DAVESPRITE: im not in any shape for more adventuring DAVESPRITE: i figure this is probably my last stop JADESPRITE: :( DAVESPRITE: but maybe this is a way you can help JADESPRITE: you mean... JADESPRITE: that i should give him the sword? DAVESPRITE: if you want JADESPRITE: but i dont want to leave you here either DAVESPRITE: maybe you dont have to actually go anywhere DAVESPRITE: you oughta have a lot of special powers remember DAVESPRITE: because of ascending to doghood JADESPRITE: oh yeah! DAVESPRITE: try doing your spacey thing DAVESPRITE: i mean not to sound condescending or anything but its got to be like borderline omnipotence pretty much DAVESPRITE: just put your mind to it (p.3946)

knowing all of this about dave and jade’s personalities and how they work together, i’ve see people get on dave’s case about making jade slap herself in the face after she put the dead bird into his kernelsprite while he was preoccupied with taking a leak

dave freaks the hell out when he realizes she’s asleep; he needs to wake her up because she needs to help him get into the game while requires pragmatism and reasonable actions so that he’s not crushed to death by an imminent meteor. or falling plumbing fixtures. the goal wasn’t to show her who’s in control or whatever or to be mean (do people seriously think he would do that to be mean to her just to slap a girl?) it was strictly to wake her up since he has no means of influencing that besides getting creative

while asleep, jade doesn’t think logically and certainty not to the extent dave needs her to be right now. she’s scattered lalalalala and can forget about limitations or consequences in the real world and also has a short memory span while dreaming: e.g. “4 hours until what?” and she put something into the kernelsprite right after dave asked her not to because she forgor </3 and jade does acknowledge this about her dreaming self btw

GG: i mean, i only talked to you when i was asleep! i am kind of different when im dreaming... GG: i forget things, and at times im not totally sure whats real GG: dont you remember thats what its like to dream on prospit? (p.3056)

dave literally says “we need to wake you up youre not very logical like this” and he does apologize about making her dreambot wake-up slap her

i also see people say that dave thought of jade as helpless and he needs to be the hero and that's why "davejade is not good actually"

TG: but ok i mean isnt that what heroes should be doing TG: working to take down the bad guy without a whole lot of this fuckin grandiloquence and these huge sweeping plans that got nothin to do with fighting him TG: like always biding our time and tiptoeing around the unbeatable god boss TG: johns too nice to get mad TG: rose spends all her time calculating TG: too focused on machiavellian ploys of sabotage to try anything drastic TG: jade is TG: i dont even know TG: probably more a liability if she got it in her head to take him down TG: if anything id bet she just needs protection GC: WH4T 4R3 YOU S4Y1NG H3R3 D4V3, 1N TH1S CONV3RS4T1ON TH4T 1S ST1LL B31NG 4BOUT YOU TG: im just wondering TG: when does someone actually step up TG: jacks got shit to pay for (p.3703)

this minor thread gets followed up on in the pesterlog where jade contacts dave and eventually she concludes jack needs to be stopped and dave's like ... "oh shit" in his head. "oh shit" as in jade's got Game good for her go jade, "oh shit" as in she's going to be ripe for the stabbing cause the idea is in her head now, and "oh shit" as in this moment is the seed of why im going to have to rehearse jade accidentally killing me over and over and i cant tell her about it. due to this he is always fated to die in the alpha timeline both standing up to jack and to protect jade. it's woven into his story. but he was wrong about everyone else also! which i dont see brought up when that quote is used? rose does something drastic (pilots the moon into the furthest ring) and john gets mad (on the ship) and jade is the opposite of needing protection (she’s the only one jack won’t stab and also she ends up so fucking OP she has to be basically written out of act 6) so it's less a thing about jade specifically but to show that in hindsight dave was wrong about ALL his friends. which is an interesting discussion to be had about him in itself, but not now. this is the most sane and well-thought out interpretation of it ive seen

"In general, though, I think Dave has a tendency not uncommon to [thirteen] year olds (or… humans in general, if we’re being honest here) to cast everyone else as a player in his own story and characterize them in ways that fit what he wants. There’s the famous chunk where he says John never gets angry, Rose will never stop scheming long enough to take action, and Jade’s a liability, only to be proven wrong in every count. That fits his understanding of these people and his ideal relationship with them - friend, actor, protector, the one in the group who can be the hero." "Yes, I think Dave probably saw Jade as the most supportive and least judgmental friend. I’m not sure if that impacted his incorrect judgment of her since that’s kind of a pattern for him in general, but I guess it could’ve."

and also putting this solely on dave is kind of ... ehhhhh? because john says the same thing about jade but i don't see anyone getting on his case for it.

CG: SHE AND DAVE RAN INTO JACK, WHICH I'M SURE HE MUST HAVE SAW COMING BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE EXPLOIT TIME TRAVEL SO SHAMELESSLY AS HIM, NOT EVEN ARADIA. CG: SO SHE AND DAVE FOUGHT WITH HIM A WHILE, AND LONG STORY SHORT, HE DIED. EB: what!!! CG: BUT IT'S FINE, I GUESS THAT WAS HIS PLAN, LIKE SOME BIZARRE USELESS LAST STAND, EVEN IF HE DIDN'T TELL JADE WHO WAS PRETTY FREAKED OUT UNTIL I TALKED HER THROUGH IT. CG: JADE SAYS SHE HAS THIS FIGURED OUT, AND I DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO MUCH BUT TRUST HER. CG: THE POINT IS, SHE'S ALL BOOKED UP, AND ALL TOO MORTAL. SO SHE WON'T BE DELIVERING THE BOMB, AND NEITHER WILL YOU. EB: ok, well what about this. EB: since she is mortal, and i am not (sort of), and i don't need to do the scratch for a while, can i go help her? EB: maybe she could use some protection? maybe that is what dave was just trying to do, when he temporarily died. EB: remember, jack is still on the loose! he has killed rose and dave once, and me twice. CG: NO NO NO NO NO NO. CG: SWEET BLEEDING JEGUS, EGBERT, YOU KEEP BRAGGING ABOUT YOUR IMMORTALITY, AND THEN BRAINLESSLY ANNOUNCE PLANS TO GO OFF AND DO SOMETHING HEROIC! YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE SHORTEST LIFESPAN OF ANY IMMORTAL IN HISTORY. EB: sorry. :( CG: BESIDES, IT'S A TOTAL NON ISSUE. JACK WOULDN'T HESITATE TO STAB YOU AGAIN, BUT HE WON'T HURT JADE FOR SOME REASON. CG: IF ANYTHING, YOU COULD USE HER PROTECTION. (p.3869 / 3871)

and also keep in mind dave does absolutely change his perception about jade's strength??

DAVE: youll probably annihilate me worse than my bro used to DAVE: dont you have all of your dogs insane powers and like DAVE: god tier space powers on top of all that DAVE: how exactly am i supposed to compete with that (p.6384)

DAVE: gotta keep em napping DAVE: especially jade im sure you know what kind of crooked ass baloneyfuck powers she got DAVE: cant let her turn those against us (p.7485)

so back to grimbark jade and the switching of these roles, dave doesn’t entirely lose his pragmatic bent. that’s still the way he thinks about stuff through but his time on the meteor has softened him and allowed him to become more reflective on big-picture things such as his role in everything

ironically this is the exact reason for his clash with grimbark jade is because she’s trying really hard to make him do stuff and it’s stuff that he’s not going to budge on because he doesn’t think it’s practical

JADE: why not? JADE: our empress can hardly have a knight with such rusty combat skills in her service DAVE: will you cut it out with the evil jade baloney DAVE: im not going to fight you DAVE: my rooftop dueling days are OVER JADE: en garde! DAVE: ugh DAVE: even if we just went balls out jackass BANANAS with our swords here i mean realistically how much appreciable advancement in my battle skills would even result from that DAVE: are you actually thinking this through or just going through the vaguely nefarious motions that come with the territory of being evildog!jade JADE: im gonna go through the vaguely nefarious motions of kicking your ass in a minute if you dont put up your dukes!!! DAVE: yeah you probably will DAVE: youll probably annihilate me worse than my bro used to DAVE: dont you have all of your dogs insane powers and like DAVE: god tier space powers on top of all that DAVE: how exactly am i supposed to compete with that JADE: by using your time trickery! JADE: come on dave do your timey thing JADE: get creative, make lots of copies of yourself or something... outsmart me! DAVE: no! JADE: yes!!! DAVE: ok here i go JADE: !!!!! DAVE: wait DAVE: nah JADE: grrr JADE: dave, just try a little time travel to get this fight started JADE: see look, one of your time doubles is surely predestined to come from a few minutes in the future and appear behind me for a surprise attack, riiiight about... JADE: now! JADE: ... JADE: no wait JADE: riiiiiiiiiight... JADE: ... JADE: ... JADE: NOW! JADE: .... JADE: ..... JADE: dave why is your future self being such a wet blanket DAVE: i told you DAVE: im not time traveling DAVE: i think im giving it up for good actually (p.6384)

one thing floral mentions in her post is that dave is pushing jade for answers about her failed relationship with davesprite

DAVE: why are you dragging that guy into this DAVE: what happened with you and him anyway JADE: none of your business >:p DAVE: it kind of is DAVE: hes bird me DAVE: that clearly means i have a right to know JADE: that doesnt make any sense! DAVE: you said he had issues DAVE: what issues JADE: augh! JADE: forget i mentioned it DAVE: was he talking shit about me the whole time or something DAVE: i know he resents me for being the real dave JADE: dont say that, you arent the real dave! JADE: well you are, but phrasing it like that is so mean! JADE: hes just as real as you, and when you imply he isnt you sound like a jerk!!! DAVE: man i knew it DAVE: i knew he was poisoning your view of me all those years DAVE: and i wasnt there to say anything or defend against his slander so now of course you think im a neurotic douche (p.6386)

and while it is true nobody is obligated to share the details of their relationship, there is a LOT of evidence to believe dave was asking because he wants to be a good person and, to me his words here, and his past and future actions relative to this point, show that he’s not as messed up of a person as grimbark jade is making him out to be. let’s dive into it. think on this: why does dave care so much what jade thinks about him? he started getting “neurotic” halfway through the conversation once jade brought up her feelings about him

JADE: THE ONLY REASON I THINK YOURE A NEUROTIC DOUCHE IS BECAUSE YOURE ACTING LIKE ONE NOW!!! DAVE: yeah but i only started acting like a neurotic douche like half way through this conversation DAVE: you clearly had an axe to grind with me from the start and i want to know why DAVE: what did i ever do to deserve this shit from you JADE: YOU BROKE MY HEART!!!!!! DAVE: what DAVE: i did DAVE: when (p.6386)

he’s genuinely so lost because he hadn’t had contact with any extension of jade in 3 years. alpha timeline dave has been sensitive towards jade for basically forever and especially now that he’s had time to grow up. he is not going to allow any version of himself hurt jade, and thats why hes asking so many questions to her about the nature of the relationship and what happened

JADE: ok not you JADE: davesprite did JADE: BUT YOURE BASICALLY THE SAME GUY! DAVE: whoa no way DAVE: thats such an unfair characterization we are completely different dudes JADE: you just said you had a right to know what happened between us because, and i quote, "hes bird me" DAVE: no i know DAVE: i was playing the "hes bird me" card because it was convenient to whatever it was i was saying at the time DAVE: i forget what point i was making when i said that JADE: *growl* DAVE: but thats not the point im making now DAVE: he and me are just DAVE: crazy different yo DAVE: hes got fuckin wings!!! DAVE: he also presumably takes a dump and lays eggs out of the same ghostly hole DAVE: ... DAVE: ew man whyd i have to go there JADE: *SNARL* DAVE: ok if he broke up with you or whatever that was because of his dumb bird issues not my issues DAVE: theres no way i would have done that to you (p.6386)

what dave means to say by “hes bird me because it was convenient to say at the time but it doesnt apply to this circumstance” is exactly what i was getting at in part 1 of this series of posts. yes, they are the same people at their very foundation, different reflections of a single character, but up to a point. there’s a gray area of whether or not we can call dave and davesprite the same person. in terms of this conflict though, dave should be regarded as a separate individual because of their diverging history up to that point and adolescent-teenage growth in different environments and under different circumstances. even if dave doesn't know what hes trying to say

he wants to know what this alternate version of himself did to hurt jade so much. even if grimbark jade really is bringing dave into some shit he had nothing to do with.

see the thing is, to me dave could have easily handled being accused a lot worse and say something like “youre overreacting” or something. that wouldve been dickish. but he doesn’t, he never does. he really seems to be more motivated by like, “woah what?? whats his problem? are these about issues i still have and dont know they were hurting jade or are they uniquely davesprite’s?”

like, this isn’t a joke to him even if his main form of communication through humor to lighten the mood (jade loves dave’s silliness dont forget all the times she’s giggled because dave was “so silly” and “hes a funny guy”). immediately after rescuing the mayor from eviljade’s lava kick, he was going to give davesprite a piece of his mind and this shows he is sincerely concerned about what an alternate version of himself did to break jade’s heart. he REALLY fuckin wants closure on it because he cares about her feelings so much

i don’t see this other side covered in floral’s post, but evildog jade here is Also pushing dave to do something that he is uncomfortable with as well, which is to use time travel.

dave stopped time traveling so he wouldn’t “have to wonder all the time if i was taking a wrong turn and dooming everybody”, stating he was “never that cool with it” to rose back in act 5. around the same time when karkat talks to john, he says “TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HE DOESN'T TIME TRAVEL AFTER [FIGHTING JACK WITH JADE], AND HE AND ROSE STAY ON DERSE WAITING FOR THE BOMB UNTIL YOU START THE SCRATCH” which honestly makes me think that whole event was the nail in the coffin for dave on time traveling. seeing himself die fighting jack and knowing it was coming and he couldnt tell jade no matter how much he wanted to that her bullets were going to be the cause. this is the last straw for him regarding time traveling it affected him that much

remember the last lines of pesterlog jade had with dave before being separated? i mentioned it earlier--the one where jade decided jack needs to be stopped and they should “come up with a better plan than Rose’s suicide mission to stop him. Dave suggests the idea is futile, but lets her know she’d come to her own decision regardless, and he’d be available to talk later if needed” (from recap 3)

GG: well maybe im just being naive... GG: but a crazy suicide mission does not sound like the ideal solution to me! GG: are you suuuure we cant beat him? GG: i dont know if we should rule it out! TG: well TG: youre about to do what youre about to do TG: and im not going to tell you not to TG: i wont do the bullshit troll thing and tell you what youre going to do and then just dare you not to TG: while knowing damn well you will anyway TG: so ill just say TG: whats next is up to you TG: and if later you want to talk about it TG: im here GG: ok GG: thanks dave! (p.3204)

this was dave’s nice causality-free way of saying “youre going to end up killing me during the jack fight that winds up happening. i cant tell you that im going to die and that youre going to be the one to shoot me, because i know you wouldnt go through with it. that would drag us in a doomed timeline and we’d all die anyway, not just me. youre probably going to be freaked out when it happens since i can’t tell you this, so if you want to talk me about it later, ill be here for you”

which, first of all is, holy shit. he cares about her and her feelings so fucking much. and it’s nothing new

TT: What about why you went to fight Jack? TG: sure TG: i did that TG: because i wanted to TG: and because i was supposed to TT: Are you sure? TG: yeah i saw my future self fighting him so obviously that had to happen or else id be dead anyway TG: without even getting the satisfaction of standing up to him TT: So what about Jade? TG: what TT: You didn't tell her your expedition with her would result in your death, let alone one she'd inadvertently cause. TT: Or that she'd be stuck with the job of resuscitating you. Did you? TG: what am i really supposed to say TG: hey were gonna hunt frogs til you shoot me through the jack TG: then i die and youve got to make out with me TG: that kind of changes how the whole thing goes doesnt it TT: Not if you're "supposed to," right? TG: what does that even mean TT: I guess you're right. No reason to make an effort to empathize if doing so comes at the price of oblivion. TG: wtf TT: It must be comforting to have your ASPD tacitly supported by predestination. TG: aspd TT: Antisocial personality disorder. TG: oh no TG: this conversation just got bumrushed by a mudslide of fucking awful TT: It wasn't already awful, believing you might be dead? TG: you dont know anything TG: about what i was feeling or what happened on lofaf TG: you were all pavement faced and babbling your throefester speak and flipping off the shit with your own crazy deathwish thing why do you think you know what was going through my head TG: youre just assuming and throwing around psyche buzzwords like aspd complex disorder TG: im telling you if i said anything at all about it she probably doesnt even fire her gun once and all im doing is dragging her into a doomed timeline with me TT: I guess I'm learning to be impressed by your sense of obligation to inevitable misfortune. It's a strange case of inspiration through futility. TG: none of this is that big a deal TG: i just mentioned the basics to her TG: that id stop time traveling soon TG: break out of the loops TG: not have to wonder all the time if i was taking a wrong turn and dooming everybody TG: i was never that cool with this (p.3896)

dave got suddenly super fucking defensive about rose making assumptions about how he felt about fighting jack and knowing jade was going to inadvertently kill him, knowing damn well how jade reacts to seeing corpses (remember that time dave threw his slain body out the window so jade wouldnt see it because “it would probably freak her out”), and the fact that he couldn’t warn her to protect the alpha timeline and also protect both of them and everyone from falling into a doomed timeline. and he knew it was coming the whole time. he was right, rose didn’t know what was going through his head. but his defensiveness here means he had strong feelings about it. not only that but dave saying “whats next is up to you, and if later you want to talk about it, im here” shows the amount of trust he has towards her

we see him tell this to grimbark jade straight up his thought process for why he stopped time traveling. and it’s spot on with what i said. again, remember that this is the first conversation he has with jade after 3 years being separated

DAVE: but see with time travel DAVE: all the stuff about learning it so you dont have to use it is true DAVE: theres no good that can come of it DAVE: you can crunch the logic on the loops all you want DAVE: but all youre doing is painting yourself into a corner DAVE: creating inevitabilities you have to rehearse and enact or face death for yourself or everyone you know DAVE: and sometimes facing death is the very inevitability you have to rehearse DAVE: and then you wait and wait knowing its coming and knowing it has to happen DAVE: how do you think it made me feel when we were gathering up all those frogs DAVE: and i knew the whole time in a little while you would have to watch me get shot DAVE: but i couldnt say anything or it would mess it all up DAVE: all cause i thought it would be cool to be marty mcfuckin fly DAVE: but instead of shredding johnny b goode on guitar to get my parents to bang DAVE: my crowning performance was doing a funny dance while getting pumped full of lead JADE: ...... (p.6385)

and what fucking broke me yesterday was realizing after all this time, ironically it was DAVE who wound up being the one who had to talk to jade about it.

JADE: sorry dave, you lost me there after the part where i shot you DAVE: damn DAVE: ok lemme start over (p.6385)

“damn ok lemme start over” bro he really wants to open up to her about this thing he’s been stewing on for three years only for it to fall on deaf mind controlled ears. it’s so fucking sad

part 3 is cooking and it’s going to be about dave’s character growth post-meteor and what that means for dave and jade

[crystallinestars]

Wow, it’s such a relief to find people who don’t like Haikaveh either. Was really disappointed when I read Sethos’s voiceline.. I am bisexual and I think that Haikaveh (along with many other pairings) is queerbaiting and some type of fetish. I’ve made a long written analysis on why I think it is and how I think it’s offensive, simply because I find it interesting and enjoy analyzing things. Really love their duo and they’re great parallels but they fit a sibling / platonic soulmate duo better than a romantic one 🤦‍♀️ It’s getting annoying at this point and I wish Hoyoverse would stop, but it earns them attention and money so why would they? Just want to enjoy my favorite character without him being used as an accessory for another. Disappoints me that other gay people don’t notice (or care) that they are being stereotypical themselves and that Hoyoverse is basically using our sexualities for accessories and money. Haven’t looked into the translation thing with Sethos’s voiceline but if it’s true it was more neutral in CN, then that’s interesting. The same Haikaveh defenders will yap about how “CN is the original!1!1!1” but if you bring something like this translation up they lose it. Hoyoverse has never been a “gay representation” company, it’s a queer-baiting one. 🤦‍♀️ But at the same time, I don’t really even care. I’m not a gay person who cares much about my sexuality or others, but things like this are frustrating. Wish there were more people who understand my view on why I think their presentation is harmful.

- 🪷 / 🪽

Hello 🪷/🪽 Anon! (Let me know if you want to go by both emojis or just one) Welcome to our small club of not being into Haikaveh (or most Hoyoverse queer ships).

I agree with you that Kaveh and Haitham have a very sibling/platonic dynamic. In fact, their bickering reminds me a lot of my younger siblings’ bickering, so I view them as brothers, as well. It’s just unfortunate that the fandom rejects any interpretation that’s not romantic.

I also wish Mihoyo would stop, but they’re obsessed with tossing ship crumbs, and only to the most popular ships. As you said, it makes them money, so they have no reason to stop.

There is definitely some queerbaiting in Genshin, but I would say it’s not as bad as in HSR. HSR sometimes made me very uncomfortable with the fetishization of some of their ships, and I wondered if a man wrote it for a straight male audience…

Mihoyo has always had a history of wanting to include same-sex pairings in their games. Honkai Impact 3rd has a confirmed lesbian MC, and also two other female characters who canonically kiss (but due to updated laws in China, they had to remove that scene).

It doesn’t surprise me that they want to do similar things in Genshin and HSR, but they never commit to the ships. They only tease and hint at them, ala “There might be something between these characters, but also not really, but what if…?” and this is pretty much exclusive to same-sex pairings. This teasing and hinting makes the fandom so much worse to be in. Lots of other gacha games don’t do this, but for whatever reason, Mihoyo does.

I suspect some of the employees working on the game may be queer or have a huge interest in BL and GL (though it’s probably a mix of both), which is why they make all these ship crumbs. There’s nothing wrong with having queer relationships in games and other media, but the way they go about it feels… fetishizing, I guess? It doesn’t feel genuine. I can’t quite put my finger on what feels so off about this. You would know about this far more than me since you analyzed this already, so if you have interpretations you want to add, I’ll gladly hear you out.

It sucks because they market their games as being for all audiences, but then do things with a heavy bias for certain ships. It makes it so difficult to enjoy characters the way you want when the developer and fandom constantly shove in your face that your favorite character has an implied relationship or some other such thing.

Regarding the Sethos voiceline… my friend in China, who also dislikes Haikaveh, complained to me about it the other day. She said the original Chinese text felt like it was implying something between Kaveh and Haitham. Of course, that is just her personal interpretation, and some people don’t see a deeper meaning behind the words. However, it goes to show that even the Chinese audience can tell something is up with the voiceline, so it might not be as neutral as we hoped.

I’m all for more media having queer rep, but Mihoyo doesn’t do it right. I really wish I could just play their games without having ship teasing slapped in my face, but alas, they won’t ever change. At this point, it’s better to not play any of their games (though maybe Tears of Themis can stay) and ditch the fandoms for your peace of mind.

[zahri-melitor]

I was discussing this with a friend of mine and I’d be interested to know your take.

We’re both big comics nerds for the batfam, and we’ve come to the consensus that even with the out of pocket moments, arcs that don’t hold up well(fugitive comes to mind), and the slew of other post crisis issues—We think the best version of the batfam would be right before Damian was introduced.

I know how this makes me sound and I’m not sorry, Tim as robin was great and I loved him as the younger brother of the fam but also not bruce’s son let them be weird friends like before identity cri-

I’m getting off topic. I apologize.

Batfam feels very bloated modern day, and I genuinely preferred when Jason was a crime lord, Dick and Tim were close tightknit brothers. Babs was oracle and Cass was batgirl. I’d want Steph to be alive and not taking cass’s job but one thing at a time. (also tim and cass are lovely as siblings/friends)

What is your ideal batfamily composition, what do you have the most fun with?

And I hope you’re doing well!

Oh here’s a dangerous question.

My favourite period of Bat comics is probably, hmmm, 1996 to 2004. Not only are there some great writers doing work during that period, the family dynamics are interesting and complex because there's fun levels of tension between various members, but also there are almost equal numbers of male and female characters and the women are allowed to be messy and complex and flawed while still heroic. You've got Bruce, Dick, Tim, Barbara, Helena, and Jean-Paul, plus Cass from 1999 onwards, with assistance from Steph, Selina and Dinah to varying degrees.

What characters and dynamics do I find the most fun? Well, I like there to be tension in the Bat family. I like every person in the group to be linked in differently, with different relationships with other members, rather than being "Bruce and his kids". There's this concept I have of what is the 'core' of the Batfam in the period between 1995 and 2009: it's not Bruce, it's actually a trio, consisting of Dick, Tim and Barbara, all of whom who have very strong ties to each other, managing and balancing the rest of the family between them.

Dick manages the broader community ties, rather than the Gotham ones. Dick's the one who all the other families know and are most likely to approach for help; he's got the respect of the Titans but also of the Justice League. Dick is basically the public relations guy standing between the Bats and everyone else.

Tim is the glue of Gotham. Tim knows everyone in Gotham and has teamed up with them at some point and knows how to convince them to come and help out, even if they aren't on good terms with the rest of the Bats, and can force people who are normally opposed to work together. Tim's the reason all the Gotham vigilantes aren't six separate bitter blood feuds or a perpetual mafia war.

Barbara is the expertise. She's not only the coordinator and planner who ensures that everything runs smoothly, who has everyone's contact details and the ability to pull in the specific assistance needed, but she also maintains contacts that still see Dick as 'Bruce's kid' with the way most of the Justice League only are familiar with her as an adult hero. She's got the best JSA contacts via Dinah. She can stand up to Bruce and tell him to back down and pull his head in in a way the other two cannot. And she's the only one of the three who has a proper working relationship with Jean-Paul Valley.

The changes in the Batfamily dynamics by firstly removing Barbara from Gotham, and then adding Jason and especially Damian, forced the shape of the dynamics to centre themselves around "Bruce and his sons" and "everyone else", rather than being a spread network that converged on a trio.

My ideal Batfamily? It's Bruce, Dick, Barbara, Tim, Cass and Damian. While I think that Damian is part of a very clear change of direction in storytelling, I think there are worthwhile stories to tell about his dynamics with the others listed here, and on balance he allows for new directions of storytelling.

(Yes, there's an obvious name missing there. It's deliberate. I remain unconvinced that having Jason around as 'family' is a better use of his character than as a ghost haunting the narrative or, if he must be alive, as an extremely irritating villain)

[joepelling]

“WHY ARE YOUR TAGS LIKE THAT?” OR: RED GUY DUCK AND YELLOW GUY ARE THE EGO SUPEREGO AND ID TO THE ENLIGHTENED MIND, A MASTERPOST

BASICALLY: the ego, superego, and id are freudian concepts of how the mind works in psychoanalytic theory. i match up the three protagonists of don’t hug me i’m scared with these concepts. here’s my insane person, long-winded explanation as to why.

THE EGO: rational, realistic, practical. the true self, the mediator between the other two. very concerned with self-preservation.

THE SUPEREGO: idealistic, critical, perfectionist. the judge, jury, and executioner.

THE ID: impulsive, childish, emotional. pure desire. associated with sexuality and romance.

the characters have been described by joe pelling as “the middleman” “cynical and fussy” and “optimistic and idiotic” respectively

RED GUY: is CONSTANTLY the mediator between yellow and duck. the only one seen in the “real world,” and the ego is the self presented to the outside world. the “worm in his brain” has to do with outward appearance.

DUCK: famously hostile and judgmental, constantly associated with the military (authority figures), even becomes a dictator in the scrapped pilot. his aggression is often targeted towards yellow, who he deems too emotional and sensitive and deserving of it the most. the “worm in his brain” has to do with morality.

YELLOW GUY: while he is often read as asexual and aromantic (which i agree with!), he has multiple “love interests,” even if none of them are played straight. his brain friends are all very emotional and have nothing resembling a voice of reason, and no way of handling warren (who can be interpreted as an intrusive thought) without enabling him. the “worm in his brain” has to do with relationships.

MISC DYNAMIC THOUGHTS: when yellow claims “grolton is the dog,” red corrects him gently and politely and duck swiftly shuts him down and tells him to shut up (there’s a lot of instances of red gently correcting yellow and duck doing it harshly, but to my memory this is the only time they do it with the exact same thing). during the friendship fight, red implies he’s told duck to stop being so harsh on yellow. duck has to intervene to remove warren (again, here a symbol of intrusive thoughts) as yellow is physically incapable of doing so on his own.

CLOSING THOUGHTS: do i think this theory is the key to understanding what dhmis is about? not at all! i personally believe that dhmis is just made for fun and with no deeper meaning than “becky and joe made something fun to make each other laugh.” do i as a psychology enthusiast think it’s an interesting way to interpret the text? yeah. my theory is flawed, for sure- yellow is concerned with keeping harmony and is usually nonviolent despite the id’s association with aggression, duck is the least likely to go along with the teachers (authority figures, when the superego gets its moral system directly from them), red often doesn’t care about the other two, among other things, but that doesn’t mean it’s not fun for me to think about!

if you’ve made it this far, thank you so much for reading! feel free to ask any questions and i would be very happy to answer them, as i’m very passionate about this theory and love to discuss it. love you!

[shadowen]

I'm thinking, once again, about the Star Wars sequel trilogy and the incredible wasted potential of the characters. Specifically, I'm thinking about Rey and Poe as foils against Phasma and Hux.

Here, we have two men who were raised from birth as true believers in opposing causes, the only sons of heroes, who then far surpassed their parents in fame and influence. There are some hints of contrast, in that we see the stark differences in how they lead, but the films are almost maliciously committed to misunderstanding Poe as a character*, that I have to assume those moments are purely accidental.

Then there's Rey and Phasma, two women from baren, brutal worlds, with a single name and no legacy**, who survive and succeed based entirely on raw talent and relentless determination. Phasma is nominally set up as a contrast for Finn, but she ends up being an unsatisfying personal villain. Likewise, Rey is set in opposition to Kylo Ren, but that whole dynamic is so messy and loaded, without exploring any of the meaningful parallels and conflicts between them***.

There's also something to be said about contrasting sibling dynamics. With Rey and Poe, we get glimpses of a squabbling rivalry rooted in obvious affection, whereas Phasma and Hux are shown (in EU material) to have a conspiratorial closeness based on mutual respect and mutually assured destruction. Neither of these relationships is developed to full potential or used to develop the narrative or themes of the films.

The reliance on external knowledge to prop up the core films is a long-standing critique of Star Wars, and I wholeheartedly agree that the movies should be able to stand on their own. However, given the volume and emphasis on the extended universe, it's reasonable to expect at least some degree of consistency. In the case of these characters and others, though, the most interesting character development is either jarringly ignored or deliberately removed, as with a scene cut from The Last Jedi which tells more about Phasma in two minutes than the rest of her screen time combined. There's plenty of discussion to be had about what's actually in the films, but I think the great tragedy of the sequel trilogy is what could have been there and isn't.

Footnotes and reading recs under the cut.

*My rant on this subject is long, detailed, and mostly about racism.

**I think Rey is a much more interesting character if she is actually nobody from nowhere, but that's a different discussion.

***This is not about ship vs notp, just about how their on-screen interactions fit into the narrative.

The Star Wars EU is daunting, to say the least. If you want to read more about these characters, may I suggest:

Phasma (novel) by Delilah S. Dawson (my all time fav SW novel)

Poe Dameron (comics series) by Charles Soule and Phil Noto

Captain Phasma #1-4 (comic) by Kelly Thompson and Marco Checchetto

Resistance Reborn (novel) by Rebecca Roanhorse

Before the Awakening (short stories) by Greg Rucka

Shattered Empire #1-4 (comic) by Greg Rucka and Marco Checchetto

Age of Resistance (comics anthology) by Tom Taylor et al

[writing-for-life]

“M/M Ships Smash The Patriarchy”—But Do They?

Little disclaimer first: I don’t have a problem with m/m fics or art, quite the opposite. I’m a bisexual woman, I can find the idea of m/f, f/f and m/m interesting and yes, sexually arousing (each for different reasons though). And I’m saying this so explicitly because the idea that women need to engage in mental gymnastics to justify m/m ships is relevant to this post.

So please don’t take this personally if you like m/m, especially not if what I write very obviously doesn’t apply to you. This also has nothing to do with shipping m/m as a queer person, because the context invariably changes in most cases. This post is exclusively about the “justification” of m/m ships as something that “smashes the patriarchy”.

With that out of the road:

I’ve seen so many posts stating that m/m ships are removing “the whiff of patriarchy from fandom”. That the same dynamics would be problematic in a m/f or f/f ship, but they’re less “harmful” in a m/m ship.

And yes, of course women have been bearing the brunt of these objectifying dynamics since the beginning of time, totally true. But here’s the thing:

a) Problematic dynamics are okay to explore (not necessarily to condone, they are two different things) in fanfiction; it’s happened for as long as fanfiction (no, fiction) exists. We could go off on a whole tangent about what’s “problematic” (or not) in fiction now, and I’m not overly keen on that term, but it’d lead too far because we’d need to talk about a lot of stuff that’s not really the topic of this post.

b) Problematic dynamics don’t magically change because you apply them to a m/m ship, especially if you’re a (straight) woman heavily projecting onto characters. If there’s an age gap, it stays an age gap. If there are power imbalances, they stay power imbalances. If there’s violence/objectification/whatever else going on IT STAYS THAT. The mental leap from, “Men in m/f relationships are often, either consciously or subconsciously through what society condones, the perpetrator in that particular dynamic,” to “that’s why it’s not a problem in m/m relationships,” honesty baffles me.

So my question is:

If you want to remove the “problematic whiff of patriarchy from fandom”, but you are ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY centering two MEN in your fics, art and what you consume, are you really doing that? Where are the protagonist WOMEN that are written or portrayed in a way that isn’t patriarchal?

Too much of a stretch?

Why bring in “the patriarchy” (or whatever other justification) instead of just saying you like the idea of two men getting it on, and that you project on at least one, if not both of them? And I know many women are honest about this, so this is obviously not aimed at them.

And I’m not writing this in a vacuum—there are endless posts about exactly this, and quite frankly:

It is actually patriarchal and misogynistic to deny women the right to just feel horny when they read about/look at two guys fucking. Without justifying it in any way, or making it about something that feels performative (“We like the m/m ship because we’re queer-positive feminists”. Please…). That, right there, is internalised misogyny:

Women don’t need to morally justify their horniness. They don’t need to justify whatever they’re into and turn it into a performative event. They’re just allowed to like it as is. The end.

Why not just like what we like while still critically engaging with the question whether some of what we read and create is potentially fetishising gay/queer men instead of calling it “feminist and queer-positive”?

Because let’s face it: Straight women who ship m/m don’t like gay men because they’re gay. They like them because they project a straight woman on a gay persona that has nothing to do with actually being gay (just like most lesbian porn never had anything to do with being created for lesbians, or f/f relationships in books written by men were always serving the male gaze, but it’s easier to holler about that, right?):

At least one of them is the guy you fancy (sometimes both of them are), and sometimes one of them is (at least partly) you. It has always worked like that and always will.

But back to the main topic of “smashing the patriarchy”: We are talking about fanfiction and fanart here. YOU create it. It’s not the adult entertainment industry making billions that throws it at you. You are the CREATORS and CONSUMERS. You get to CHOOSE. And yes, that choice can absolutely be a m/m ship if that’s what you want. Again, there’s no problem with that.

But if your main argument is that you want content without the stench of patriarchy, how about actually centering women in it, at least from time to time?

[redlerred7]

I'm like a hundred words into the next chapter of Sincerity is Rock, Actually and I'm reminded if some comments I received and conversations I had back in April about the way I write Ryo. Specifically, about how strong my characterization of her is.

It confused me.

Don't get me wrong, I was happy everyone liked the way I wrote her, but I didn't understand why the people I talked to insisted my Ryo was different.

At the time, I wasn't familiar with the fanfic scene for Bocchi the Rock. Even now, I'd say I'm still not very familiar with it—but at least I've read a dozen or so fics since that time. I think I kinda understand the difference now?

The biggest thing I've seen is how a lot of Ryo's unleasant traits are toned down. She's less of an asshole; she's more emotive; she's more talkative; and most importantly, she thinks about how her actions affect other people and seems to adjusts her behavior accordingly.

No, stop that! She's a judgemental elitist with a permanent bitch face who borrows money from people without paying them back. Writing Ryo like she's a decent human being with a working concept of action and consequence removes the most interesting point of tension to her characterization: the fact that she can be so unpleasant while still being Ride or Die for her friends. You lose so much by sanding down those rough edges.

This sanding down of Ryo is also the reason I find myself not feeling as strongly for many of the shippy fics involving her. Ryo being such an asshole that you question why people are friends with her informs a lot of the friendships she does have.

Bocchi is a doormat who Ryo takes advantage of, but they also have An Understanding™ because of their mutual respect for the other's musicianship and a shared experience with being alone and unable/unwilling express their feelings to other people. Bocchi is willing to accept Ryo's worse qualities because… well, frankly, it's because she's desperate for friends. However! The other reason is because Ryo understands her, and will engage with her loneliness and negative feelings in a way that basically no one else in the cast is willing or able to engage.

Kita is infatuated with Ryo's coolness and uncompromising commitment to the bit—which, again, Ryo takes advantage of. From the other direction, Ryo respects Kita Go-Getter attitude and willingness to actually put in the work to get better at guitar—it's just that she's completely unable or unwilling to express that respect. Despite that, I get the sense that Kita still feels Ryo's respect on some level, and it makes her feel valued enough that her infatuation with Ryo never really goes away.

And finally, there's Nijika, who I went on a whole spiel about in chapter 2 of Sincerity is Rock, Actually, which I'll copy-paste here.

Honestly, Nijika's acceptance of Ryo's worst qualities is so fascinating for their dynamic. She's not trying to "fix" Ryo—and the fact that she isn't seems to be something Ryo is aware of. And even more fascinating is that, despite knowing that Nijika does very little to stop her, I don't really think Ryo tries to take advantage of Nijika the same way she would try with others. I'm not sure whether this is because Ryo rationalized a reason Nijika would be off limits or because Nijika gave her reasons. Regardless, it leaves them with a strange sense of equal footing that I find appealing.

All of these relationships lose a quality to them when Ryo isn't constantly trying to take advantage of people.

Though, I suppose I'm focusing too much on the Ryo-being-an-asshole part, since it's not like those tendencies would be relevant in every story. What is relevant is Ryo's lack of emotional intelligence.

I mentioned earlier that Ryo's flat affect is one of those things that are toned down often in fics. It's not nearly as toned down as the asshole aspects, but it's still different enough that I noticed it.

The difference, I've found, is that people seem to write Ryo's stoicism as either:

A. Ryo deliberately holding back her emotions,

B. Ryo simply not feeling her emotions that strongly,

or lastly, C. some combination of the above two.

C feels the most correct of the options I listed, and is also relatively common in the fics I've read, but I also feel like it's incomplete. It misses an important aspect in that I don't think Ryo actually understands emotions in general. Like, at all.

Think about it: Ryo doesn't feel most of her emotions very strongly. Whatever emotions she does feel stongly, she doesn't understand, so she pushes them out of her mind and doesn't express them—at least not outside of music. In doing so, she creates the outward appearance of stoicism, which her peers find her cool, thus reinforcing the behavior.

Sounds about right for Ryo, right? Wanna know how that reads to me?

Ryo is a teenaged boy—or at least she acts like one.

Like, it's so obvious to me! The commitment to the bit; the emotional constipation; even the general assholery! From the moment I first watched the show, Ryo always felt so "teenaged boy"-coded. She reminded me of a bunch of friends I had back when I was studying at an all-boys highschool.

Which also explains why, of all the fics I've read, the ones where Ryo is a trans girl were the ones most similar to how I would write her. Because of course they would be! Trans!Ryo writers obviously understand the teenaged boy-like aspects of Ryo. The difference seems to be that trans!Ryo writers want to distance Ryo from those aspects while I lean harder into them.

So, to conclude this post, let me answer the question that confounded me at the start: what makes the way I write Ryo different from others?

My Ryo is an asshole

My Ryo doesn't feel most emotions strongly. When she does feel them strongly, she doesn't understand them. To avoid confusion, she shoved those emotions aside and doesn't think about or express them.

My Ryo is basically a teenaged boy who is a girl.

Does that make sense?