#nonnus of panopolis

[corvidonia]

i both love and hate nonnus. i dont know why he counts as a "classical source" when he's closer to medieval greece than he is to classical greece. hes from the 5th century common era. not before common era. hes literally from imperial rome... scholars love him and hate him. some people like him and some dont. most people do not. did you know that nonnus is the only source (that i could find) in which dionysus sexually assaults someone? yeah 💀 all him!

[brauronia]

‘Let Atlas join the fight / let him break off mountains / launch them against the sphere of stars / he once carried on his shoulders / let the Seasons run in panic […] / Zeus son of Cronus / will heft the spinning mass of heaven / onto his own shoulders / the load of Atlas / and there he will stand / biting back his rancor.’

Tales of Dionysus, book 2, by Nonnus of Panopolis (tr. by William Levitan).

[nysus-temple]

Dionysus' lesser-known myths [or perhaps you do know them, but i will tell you about them anyway]

Some of these myths have already been shown in my blog, but i decided to bring some of them up again in a more elaborated way, plus some new too. Perhaps you've heard of them, perhaps you haven't, but i can tell you i haven't seen them much around here.

And my job isn't reading your minds, it's about writting essays, so here we go.

1. Ampelos (Αμπελος):

According to Nonnus of Panopolis, Ampelos was a satyr (tho not many art represents him as such) who loved Dionysus, and was loved by him as well. Not much of a surprise, since we do know many gods had male lovers.

The problem is that, we're still talking about a satyr, we know how those guys are and act. According to Nonnus, Ampelos was riding a bull while mocking Selene, angrily, she sent a gadfly to sting the bull. The bull ran and threw Ampelos all over the place. Nonnus describes it as a very gore-like death.

Dionysus, upset, ended up turning Ampelos' corpse into a grape vine, and from there, he created wine with his blood... THANKFULY, it was the blood.

Roman mosaic with Ampelos and Bacchus.

2. Midas (Μίδας):

"But Nysus, everybody knows Midas" yes yes, but do you KNOW the actual Greek myths? Or do you know the later, VERY later-on version that appears in Wikipedia? Midas never turned his daughter into gold in the folklore, for example.

Midas was a foreign king who married a greek woman, he was the king of Phrygia, and according to Pausanias, he had a daughter named Zoe. I have absolutely nothing about her except this.

Anyways, going to the important part: Silenus, a companion of Dionysus who used to be one of his foster fathers, got lost while he was... Kind of drunk ( come on, Dionysus can't keep an eye on everyone 24/7 ). Some peasants found him and took him to King Midas, who, as a very loyal follower of Dionysus, recognized Silenus and took care of him. When Dionysus arrived in order to take him back, he thanked Midas and said he would give him in return anything that he wished for... And here it comes: Midas wished to be able to turn everything that he touched to gold, and Dionysus agreed, even though he felt sorry he hadn't thought of it twice.

Midas was happy turning stuff into gold, obviously. But when he touched food and it turned into gold as well and he was unable to eat, he returned to Dionysus asking him to turn it back to normal.

Surprisingly, Dionysus didn't say "no" or "live with the consequences"; he told him to wash himself in the river Pactolus, and, good enough, the gold thingy dissappeared.

I don't have this myth fully narrated by a Greek, instead, from a latin author. The good thing tho, thanks to Herodotus and Pausanias, i know it's realiable.

Monument dedicated to Midas, in the old Prhygia ( now part of Turkey )

3. The Minyades (Μινυάδες):

According to Plutarch, king Minyas had three daughters ( whose names i honestly don't know, they appear in Ovid's Metamorphosis ). He tells that Dionysus appeared in the form of a maiden to invite them to the Dionysian Mysteries, since the rest of the women had already gone there. And they declined, politely, but still declined. This is one of those moments in which we see Dionysus' weak points, no justified anger. They neglected the cult, but had nothing against it anyways.

Still, for him, that wasn't enough.

He drove them mad, like very. Something that for Plutarch was even worse than death, apparently. They even killed their own children and ate them (yikes) dismembering them like Dionysus was once dismembered. The sisters were wandering around the mountains, without Dionysus caring at all.

Until finally, Hermes took pity on them, and turned them into bats, freeing them from the madness.

One of the Minyades showing the dismembered body of her son - Étienne-Barthélémy Garnier

4. Zeus' lighting bolts

This one is short, so i'll get to the point.

We all know what Nonnus' was up to when writing about Dionysus. He said in his work that Zeus recognized him (when being Zagreus) as his heir. Since when he was still a little kid, he was able to climb to his throne and to hold Zeus' lightning bolts. Of course, then the very well-known myth of Hera calling the titants to dismember Dionysus arrives here, since she wanted no heir to the throne.

Things happen, you know.

5. Lykurgos (Λυκοῦργος):

Remember when i talked about this guy in the anger essay? Wellp, here he is again, it's the same, but i'll elaborate on him a bit more.

He was a thracian king, and when he heard that Dionysus was going to Thracia, he ordered to trap all of his female followers in a prison.

Yes, only the women. I guess no men followed Dionysus in Thracia during his reign, not like i can ask him about it.

OF COURSE Pentheus 2.0 would imprison the FOLLOWERS of the god of MADNESS. Of course...

Dionysus got angry ( what a surprise ) and sent a drought towards Thracia + making Lykurgos go mad. It's not Dionysus if he doesn't punish you by making you go mad.

He then proceed to tell the people that the only way to stop that punishment was by killing Lykurgos, and, well, they did. They all killed him, and were freed from the punishment.

Dionysus then stopped the drought, he kept his word, indeed.

Lykurgos attacking his own wife after being induced into madness

6. The punishment of the titans

You think they got away? No, the fuck, of course they didn't.

After Zeus' found out what had happened to Dionysus (Zagreus), he imprisoned them in Tartatus, which caused Gaia to be all sad again, since many of her children had already been imprisoned there. What she did was, as scary as Gaia has always been, burning down everything she could.

The only way Zeus could take pity on her in order to stop that, was by sending a flood.

7. Coresus (Κόρησος):

Callirhoe was a Calydonian woman who scorned Coresus, a priest of Dionysus, who threatened to afflict all the women of Calydon with insanity as the good Dionysus priest he was.

The way to stop this was with a sacrifice, to kill the woman who scorned him. Coresus was ordered to sacrifice her, but he killed himself instead since apparently, he was in love with her and couldn't do it.

Callirhoe was overcome with remorse, and cut her throat at a spring that later received her name.

As always.

Coresus sacrificing himself to save Callirhoe - Jean-Honoré Fragonard

8. The Frogs (Βάτραχοι):

At this point, this isn't lesser-known anymore, and i'm not the biggest fan of Aristophanes' work (i love Euripides way too much, oops) but i'll still summarize what Dionysus has to do with this play.

Dionysus, as the god of theatre he is, wanted to bring back to life one of the great tragedy authors. And he descends to Hades for that, it's a way to mock his connection with it, this is still a comedy.

And after a poetry slam, Aeschylus is chosen in preference to Euripides. Smh, fucking Aristophanes, way to put your preferences.

9. Orpheus' death:

I'm not gonna elaborate on this one THAT much, since i wanna save it for the Apollo & Dionysus essay i have unfinished, which was the second most voted one and it might take more time to finish it.

In any case, do you know all these modern retellings in which they paint Dionysus as the "chill, calm, who only wants to party" dude? And Apollo as the "feral, envious, angry" dude? Well, ya'll are wrong...

Dionysus killed Orpheus due to his jealousy of Apollo's worship. I'm leaving you with this sentence, wait for the other essay to know why Dionysus and Apollo are so complex in terms of feelings. Or, at least, i will try to elaborate on it.

Apollo welcoming Dionysus to the sanctuary of Delphi, which they shared.

10. Dionysus IS physically incapable of getting drunk, live with it:

SHOCK i know. So if i see any of ya'll saying he's drunk 24/7, you better have your testament written.

NONNUS OF PANOPOLIS. DIONYSIACA. LITERAL TEXT: "Only to Dionysus gave Rhea the amethyst that saves the drinker from the chains of madness."

Yes, obviously going for scientifict facts, this doesn't work. It was believed in this world that the amethyst would prevent people from getting drunk. But this is mythology, Dionysus is a god, he can't get drunk even if he wanted to. And it's not like he should, he needs to keep an eye on his followers 24/7. Or do we want to remember what happened to Silenus?

Dude, how the hell do i have to tell you all, that in all text in which people were drinking for honoring Dionysus, they always stopped saying "he wouldn't like to see us this way" HE DOESN'T WANT YA'LL DO GET DRUNK. THAT'S NOT HOW HIS MADNESS WORKED

No. The women in the Bacchae are not ✨girlboss slaaaaay✨ they were feral women. The madness Dionysus used to punish Pentheus and the Theban women is NOT something you should idealize. Euripides didn't want ya'll to call him an icon because "omg the Bacchae is so progresive" GUYS... NO. IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT. It's about showing Dionysus' wrath. Of showing why like with any other god, he's feared.

The Greek gods are not your free playground OC's. You can't invent their sexualities or gender identities just for yourself. They're important figures of a culture and country that still lives. If you want an icon to feel identify with, create one. But don't go around there saying Dionysus is genderfluid JUST because you like seeing him young. No.

I know, personally, genderfluid people, and all of them agree THIS is wrong. I already had the whole pronouns drama with Dionysus, don't start over again with this. Please.

* AHEM * In any case... Hope you enjoyed !

I needed to work A LOT for this essay, since most of these myths weren't listed with sources. Whenever you wanna write a guide about folkore or anything similar, please, list your sources ! i don't want anyone else to go through the pain of needing to research though the catacombs of information JUST to confirm one sentence. Because i went trhough that, there's a reason why i've been researching about Dionysus for more than three years already and i still don't have everything. Thanks for your support and essay requests as always, it makes me INCREDIBLY happy to see so many of you willing to learn about a figure that has been so underappreciated and reduced into nothing like Dionysus, and who is still being misinterpreted to this day.

As always, reblogs would be very appreciated, it's the way people can find my blog for something else than copypaste incorrect quotes, and i always appreciate that kind of support. Of course i do this "por amor al arte" as i would say in Spanish, but still takes time and effort and i'm just a university student. I still will need A LOT of time to be able to work into something more accesible to everyone for the Greek folklore.

For now, this small Tumblr pieces is what i can give. But as always, thank you and χαίρε Διόνυσον 🍇

[hexjulia]

this is such an intriguing combination

"Nonnos of Panopolis in Egypt, who lived in the fifth century of our era, composed the last great epic poem of antiquity. The Dionysiaca, in 48 books, has for its chief theme the expedition of Dionysus against the Indians; but the poet contrives to include all the adventures of the god (as well as much other mythological lore) in a narrative which begins with chaos in heaven and ends with the apotheosis of Ariadne's crown. The wild ecstasy inspired by the god is certainly reflected in the poet's style, which is baroque, extravagant, and unrestrained. It seems that Nonnos was in later years converted to Christianity, for in marked contrast to the Dionysiaca, a poem dealing unreservedly with classical myths and redolent of a pagan outlook, there is extant and ascribed to him a hexameter paraphrase of the Gospel of John."

this commentary assumes he converted but wouldn't it be fun to consider that he might just have treated the gospel like another group of myths he could write poetry about without that necessarily meaning he believed? they're both just good stories with familiar characters that would resonate with a lot of people, so great material for a poet aside from having greater meaning for the believers. people who don't believe still write about jesus all the time

not that i know anything about nonnus or enough about religion in late antiquity to be speculating like this (though i've read enough to know very literal belief was not the only option!) but fun fact you can just think whatever when reading things. anyway i should read this sometime.

[iliiuan]

Epic Fantasy through the Ages

A Chronology of Story

This is a work in progress, but here is my list as of 6 July 2023. Please feel free to send me additions or corrections. I have focused on epic (works that are long and took a long time to create) and fantasy (works that include an element of magic, the supernatural, or superpowers). Some of the list could be categorized as myth, some as Literature™️, some as science fiction, but beyond these categories are the two main criteria of epic and fantasy. I also don't fully know what all of the ancient to modern works encompass, but that's the fun of read and find out. I probably have added some things that don't properly meet my criteria, and that's fine with me. 🌺

Works by Mesopotamian Bards (3100 BC - 539 BC)

Enumah Elish (Epic of Creation)

Atrahasis (The Flood)

Epic of Gilgamesh

Descent of Ishtar

Epic of Erra

Etana

Adapa

Anzu

Nergel and Ereshkigal

Avesta by Zoroastrian Bards (1500 BC)

Ramayana by Valmiki (750+ BC)

Mahabharata by Vayasa (750+ BC)

The Illiad and the Odyssey by Homer (650+ BC)

Thoegeny; Works and Days by Hesiod (650+ BC)

Popol Vuh (4th century BC)

The Torah and other Jewish stories (4th century BC)

Argonautica by Apollonius of Rhodes (270 BC)

Bellum Punicam by Gnaeus Naevius (200 BC)

Annales by Ennius (170 BC)

De Rerum Natura by Lucretius (50 BC)

Poem 64 by Catullus (50 BC)

The Aenid by Virgil (19 BC)

Metamorphoses by Ovid (2 AD)

Punica by Silius Italicus (50 AD)

Satyrica by Petronius (60 AD)

Pharsalia or Bellum Civile by Lucan (62 AD)

Argonautica by Valerius Flaccus (70 AD)

Thebaid by Statius (90 AD)

The Irish Myth Cycles: Mythological, Ulster, Fenian, and Kings (3rd Century AD)

The Bible and other Christian stories (5th century AD)

Dionysiaca by Nonnus of Panopolis (500 AD)

The Quran and other Muslim stories (7th century AD)

Arabian Nights (7th century AD)

Hildebrandslied and other German heroic lays by Bards (830 AD)

Shahnameh by Ferdowsi (977 or 1010 AD)

Chanson de Roland (1125 AD)

Cantar de Mio Sid (1200 AD)

The Dietrich Cycle (1230 AD)

Poetic Edda and Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson and others (1270 AD)

Beowulf by Old English Bards (11th century AD)

Nibelungenlied by Middle High German Bards (1200)

Amadís de Gaula (13th century AD)

The Divine Comedy by Dante Alghieri (1308)

Teseida by Bocaccio (1340 AD)

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Middle English Bards (14th century)

The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (1392)

Morgante by Luigi Pulci (1483)

Le morte d'Arthur by Thomas Mallory (1485)

Orlando Innamorato by Boiardo (1495)

Orlando Furioso by Ariosto (1516)

Os Lusiadas by Camoes (1572)

Gerusalemme Liberata by Tasso (1581)

Plays and Poems by William Shakespeare (1589)

The Faerie Queen by Edmund Spencer (1590)

Discourses on the Heroic Poem by Tasso (1594)

Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes (1614)

L'Adone by Marino (1623)

Paradise Lost; Paradise Regained by Milton (1667)

Le Lutrin by Boileau (1674)

Order and Disorder by Lucy Hutchinson (1679)

Mac Flecknoe; Aenid English translation by Dryden (1682)

The Dispensary bu Samuel Garth (1699)

The Battle of the Books; A Tale of a Tub by Swift (1704)

The Rape of the Lock; Illiad and Odyssey English translations; Dunciad by Pope (1714)

The Vanity of Human Wishes by Samuel Johnson (1749)

Scribleriad by Richard Owen Cambridge (1751)

Faust by Goethe (1772)

The Triumphs of Temper; Essay on Epic Poetry by William Hayley (1782)

The Task by William Cowper (1785)

Joan of Arc; Thalaba the Destroyer; Madoc; The Curse of Kehama by Southey (1796)

The Prelude; The Execution by Wordsworth (1799)

Jerusalem by Blake (1804)

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Coleridge (1817)

Laon and Cythna; Peter Bell the Third; Prometheus Unbound by Shelley (1817)

Hyperion: A Fragment; The Fall of Hyperion by Keats (1818)

Don Juan by Byron (1819)

The Kalevala by Elias Lonnrot (1835)

Sohrah and Rustum by Matthew Arnold (1853)

Hiawatha by Longfellow (1855)

Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1855)

Idylls of the King by Lord Alfred Tennyson (1859)

Cantos by Ezra Pound (1917)

The Wasteland by T.S. Eliot (1922)

Ulysses by James Joyce (1922)

The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings/The Silmarillion etc. by J.R.R. Tolkien (1937)

Gormenghast by Mervyn Peake (1946)

The White Goddess by Robert Graves (1948)

Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell (1949)

The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis (1950)

Anathemata by David Jones (1952)

Dune by Frank Herbert (1965)

The Dark Is Rising Sequence by Susan Cooper (1965)

Briggflatts by Basil Bunting (1965)

Earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin (1968)

Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey (1968)

The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny (1970)

The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice (1976)

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson (1977)

The Magic of Xanth by Piers Anthony (1977)

Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolf (1980)

The Dark Tower by Stephen King (1982)

Belgariad and Mellorean by David Eddings (1982)

The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley (1982)

Shannara by Terry Brooks (1982)

The Riftwar Cycle by Raymond E. Feist (1982)

Discworld by Terry Pratchett (1983)

Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock (1984)

Neuromancer by William Gibson (1984)

The Black Company (1984)

Redwall by Brian Jaques (1986)

Valdemar by Mercedes Lackey (1987)

Memory, Sorrow, Thorn by Tad Williams (1988)

Sandman by Neil Gaimon (1989)

The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan (1990)

Queen of Angels by Greg Bear (1990)

Newford by Charles de Lint (1990)

Omeros by Derek Walcott (1990)

The Saga of Recluse by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (1991)

The Witcher by Andrzej Sapkowski (1993)

Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind (1994)

Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb (1995)

His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman (1995)

Old Kingdom by Garth Nix (1995)

A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin (1996)

Animorphs by H.A. Applegate (1996)

Crown of Stars by Kate Elliott (1997)

Harry Potter by J.K. Rowling (1997)

The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steve Erickson (1999)

The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher (2000)

The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini (2002)

Prince of Nothing by R. Scott Bakker (2003)

Bartimaeus by Jonathan Stroud (2003)

The Gentlemen Bastard Sequence by Scott Lynch (2004)

Twilight by Stephanie Meyer (2005)

Percy Jackson and the Olympians by Rick Riordan (2005)

Temeraire by Naomi Novik (2006)

The First Law by Joe Abercrombie (2006)

Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson (2006)

The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss (2007)

Shadows of the Apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky (2008)

The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins (2008)

Graceling by Kristin Cashore (2008)

Riyria Revelations by Michael J. Sullivan (2008)

Night Angel by Brent Weeks (2008)

The Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett (2008)

Inheritance by N.K. Jemisin (2010)

The Lightbringer by Brent Weeks (2010)

The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson (2010)

The Expanse by James S.A. Corey (2011)

The Broken Empire by Mark Lawrence (2011)

The Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer (2012)

Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Maas (2012)

Grishaverse by Leigh Bardugo (2012)

The Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron (2012)

Worm by Wildbow (2013)

The Powder Mage by Brian McClellan (2013)

The Broken Earth by N.K. Jemisin (2015)

Shards of Heaven by Michael Livingston (2015)

The Green Bone Saga by Fonda Lee (2017)

The Band Series by Nicholas Eames (2017)

Winternight by Katherine Arden (2017)

The Folk of the Air by Holly Black (2018)

The Founders by Robert Jackson Bennett (2018)

The Locked Tomb by Tamsyn Muir (2019)

Grave of Empires by Sam Sykes (2019)

Djeliya by Juni Ba (2021)

[homerstroystory]

the Dionysiaca of Nonnus of Panopolis, the longest surviving ancient Mediterranean poem receives its first ever English translation!

[babyrdie]

Is Peleus a relevant character in the myths?

(with the exception of being Thetis' husband and Achilles' father)

PELEUS' MYTHS (PART 1)

Bro you'd be surprised how many sources Peleus has lol and I know you said except for Achilles and Thetis, but I included them here in order to make the post more complete.

Details:

This post is similar to this one about Patroclus, with a few differences. Firstly, Peleus has more sources than Patroclus, so he has fewer entire passages and more sources cited in paratenes. Furthermore, in the case of Patroclus I was able to include some academic interpretations of the character because I had space in the post (although I still avoided some and just gave the link to try to shorten the post), and here this was not possible. As the one about Patroclus was my first post like this, I hope that in this one about Peleus things are more organized.

Blue = source. Green = additional explanation. I tried to be as didactic as possible because I don't know how familiar you are with Greek mythology. Someone who is already familiar may find the post repetitive for this reason.

My focus is on Greek texts because I don't know much about non-Greek sources. As I'm already considering texts from the Archaic, Classical and Roman Greece, I'll consider Byzantine sources as well. So be aware that some of these texts have a considerable amount of time in between.

I'm not a classicist or anything like that. I just enjoy learning more about these characters. So be aware of this: I have no authority on the subject, it's just a hobby. Also, it's extremely likely that I'll leave something out because Peleus has a lot of information. If anyone wants to add something, feel free to comment or reblog. If I made a mistake, I'm also open to corrections.

The links go to the exact points I mentioned,so it’s easier for you to check.

Check the "References" part in the end!

My English can be broken, especially in such a long text.

Summary: family, Phocus' death and Phthia, Eurytion's death and Calydonian Boar Hunt, Acastus (part 1), marriage with Thetis, Argonauts, post-Iliad, references (part 2).

FAMILY

Father: Aeacus.

Aeacus as Peleus' father is a strong constant and therefore I'll not include every source that mentions this here. I only mention that the oldest written source on record, The Iliad, already established this relationship. This is why Achilles is sometimes referred to as the grandson of Aeacus and as Aeacid.

[...] and Peleus, Aeacus' son, lives on among his Myrmidon [...]

The Iliad, XVI, 16. Translation by Robert Fagles.

It’s also important to mention that Aeacus' parents are commonly Zeus, an Olympian god, and Aegina, a nymph (Pindar, Isthmian Ode 8; Pindar, Nemean Ode 7; Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Pausanias, Description of Greece, 2.29.2; Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4.72.5; Hyginus, Fabulae, 52; Nonnus of Panopolis, Dionysiaca, 13.201. Detail: Hyginus is Roman, but his myths are Greek).

Furthermore, he’s connected to the Underworld (Isocrates, Evagoras, 9.15), being one of the judges of the dead (Plato, Gorgias, 523e-524a; Plato, Apology, 40e-41a) and doorkeeper of Hades (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Aristophanes, The Frogs, 466 and 605. But note that The Frogs is a comedy). In Roman literature, Aeacus remained connected to the Underworld.

Mother: Endeis

Peleus' mother is constantly Endeis (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Theseus, 10; Pausanias, Description of Greece, 2.29.10; Hyginus, Fabulae, 14). 

Fabulae specifically offers a version in which Endeis is described as “Endeis, daughter of Chiron (Χείρων)”, which makes Chiron Peleus' grandfather on his mother's side, although she’s also described in other sources as “daughter of Sciron (Σκείρων), such as Pseudo-Apollodorus and Plutarch. I put the Greek names in parentheses just to clarify that, despite some similarity, Sciron isn’t another translation form in English of the name Chiron but another person — but there is a theory that the myth of Sciron is a different rationalization of the myth of Chiron, Plutarch even says that Endeis' mother is Chariclo, usually Chiron’s wife. Pausanias also offers a version in which she's Pandion’s daughter (Pausanias, Description of Greece, 1.39.6).

Brothers:

Telamon

Telamon is very often Peleus's brother. In most sources, they both have the same parents (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Theseus, 10; Pausanias, Description of Greece, 2.29.10; Hyginus, Fabulae, 14, Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4.72.6; Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica, 1.90; Isocrates, Evagoras, 9.16; Antoninus Liberalis, Metamorphoses, 38), but  Plutarch mentions Telamon as the son of Psamathe and not of Endeis by mentiong the myth given by Dorotheus (Plutarch, Parallela minora, 25). That's why Big Ajax and Teucer are Achilles' cousins. By Telamon, Peleus has a connection with the Trojan royal family (Telamon took as a concubine Hesione, a Trojan princess sister of Priam and mother of Teucer). However, Telamon isn’t ALWAYS Peleus' brother.

But Pherecydes says that Telamon was a friend, not a brother of Peleus, he being a son of Actaeus and Glauce, daughter of Cychreus.

Library, 3.12.6. Translation by JG Frazer.

There is also a theory that deals with the possibility that Telamon as Peleus' friend is an early version, rather than a late version.

Before the age of the Attic dramatists, the Ajax legend received some further developments which were probably unknown to the Cyclic poets. One of these was the enrolment of Ajax among the Aeacidae. The Iliad bestows the name of “Αἰακίδης” on two persons only,—Peleus, the son, and Achilles, the grandson, of Aeacus. The logographer Pherecydes1 (circ. 480 B.C.) made Telamon the son of Actaeus and Glaucè, a daughter of the Aeginetan hero Cychreus,— recognising no tie, except friendship, between Telamon and Peleus. According to another legend, however, both Peleus and Telamon were sons of Aeacus by Endeïs2 (“Ἐνδηΐς”=“ἔγγαιος” or “ἔγγειος”, from the Doric “δᾶ”=“γῆ”). The cult of Aeacus, son of Zeus, had its chief seat in the island called after his mother, the nymph Aegina. Telamon and Ajax belonged to Salamis. By making Telamon and Peleus brothers, the Aeginetans linked their local hero with the others. This engrafting of Telamon and his son on the Aeacid stock had gained general acceptance before the fifth century B.C. The sculptures of Athena's temple at Aegina date from the period of the Persian wars. On the east pediment Heracles and Telamon were the prominent figures; on the west, Ajax was seen defending the corpse of Achilles. Herodotus3 says that when the Greeks had resolved, just before the battle of Salamis, ‘to invoke the Aeacidae as allies,’ they called on Ajax and Telamon to come to them from Salamis itself, but sent a ship to Aegina to summon ‘Aeacus and the other Aeacidae’ (i.e., Peleus, and his son Achilles; Phocus, and his sons Crisus and Panopeus). The passage has an especial interest as showing that, though Ajax had now been thoroughly adopted into the Aeacid cult of Aegina, this had been done without weakening the immemorial tradition which made Salamis his home.

Commentary on Sophocles: Ajax by Richard C. Jebb, Section 4.

Phocus

Phocus is Peleus’ brother (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Hyginus, Fabulae, 14; Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4.72.6; Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica, 1.90). However, he’s a half-brother on Aeacus side, as his mother isn’t Endeis, but a nymph called Psamathe (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4.72.6; Hesiod, Theogony, 1003; Pindar, Nemean Ode 5, 5.1; Pausanias, Description of Greece, 2.29.9; Antoninus Liberalis, Metamorphoses, 38).

Menoetius

Peleus and Menoetius being brothers didn't seem very common in the sources I read, but it exists! Generally their kinship is because of Aegina (grandmother of Peleus, mother of Menoetius), not because they’re brothers. Thus, by Aegina, Menoetius is related to Peleus, and consequently so is Patroclus.

Eustathius, Hom. 112. 44 sq: It should be observed that the ancient narrative hands down the account that Patroclus was even a kinsman of Achilles; for Hesiod says that Menoethius the father of Patroclus, was a brother of Peleus, so that in that case they were first cousins.

Catalogues of Women, frag 61. Translation by Evelyn-White, H G

Wifes

Antigone

Don't confuse her with Aedipus' Antigone! This one here is Eurytion’s daughter.

Peleus fled to Phthia to the court of Eurytion, son of Actor, and was purified by him, and he received from him his daughter Antigone and the third part of the country. And a daughter Polydora was born to him, who was wedded by Borus, son of Perieres.

Library, 3.13.1. Translation by J.G Frazer.

Ioannis Tzetzes, a Byzantine, made commentaries explaining Cassandra's prophecies written by Lycophron in the poem "Alexandra". In this text he said:

Peleus, according to Pherekydes, was purified by Eurytus, the son of Actor, whose daughter Antigone he took.

Ad Lycophronem, 175bis. 

Antigone died because she hanged herself (I'll explain why later), so Peleus was no longer married with her when married Thetis. Explaining this now because maybe someone thought that Peleus had two wives at the same time.

Polydora

I'll be honest and say that I genuinely think Pseudo-Apollodorus got it wrong here. He said that, after Antigone died, Peleus married Polydora who had a son named Menesthius with Sperchius. This description corresponds to Polydora mentioned by Homer in The Iliad, who was Peleus' DAUGHTER, not wife. And of the sources that mention this Polydora, this is the only time in which she’s the wife of Peleus. Also, Pseudo-Apollodorus himself had described her as the daughter of Peleus and Antigone before. So yeah, probably a mistake.

Peleus married Polydora, daughter of Perieres, by whom he had a putative son Menesthius, though in fact Menesthius was the son of the river Sperchius.

Library, 3.13.4. Translation by J.G Frazer.

Polymele

Ioannis Tzetzes, in his scholia of Lycophron, says: “Others say that Peleus had Polymele, the daughter of Actor, as a wife before Thetis” (Ad Lycophronem, 175bis). A curious detail is that Peleus has a daughter attributed to him who is also a Polymele.

Thetis

Thetis as wife of Peleus is a constant, since she’s essential to the existence of Achilles and the existence of Achilles is important to the myth of the Trojan War. I’ll talk more about this relationship later in the post. Because of Thetis, he’s the son-in-law of the god Nereus or Chiron (yes, there are versions in which Thetis is Chiron's daughter. But the most traditional and popular is that she is Nereus' daughter. I won't expand on this here because it would fit more with a post about Thetis). Their relationship was forced by divine intervention.

Children

Polydora

She’s Achilles' older half-sister, as she’s the daughter of Peleus' previous marriage with Antigone. According to Pseudo-Apollodorus she’s married to Borus.

Peleus fled to Phthia to the court of Eurytion, son of Actor, and was purified by him, and he received from him his daughter Antigone and the third part of the country. And a daughter Polydora was born to him, who was wedded by Borus, son of Perieres.

Library, 3.13.1. Translation by J.G Frazer.

Although this is largely forgotten, she actually exists in Homeric tradition, already the mother of Menesthius, with Spercheus being the father. Menesthius was one of the Myrmidons led by Achilles, who was his uncle.

The first battalion was led by Menesthius bright in bronze, son of Spercheus River swelled by the rains of Zeus and born by the lovely Polydora, Peleus' daughter, when a girl and the god of a tireless river bedded down.

The Iliad, XVI, 203-206. Translation by Robert Fagles.

A fragment attributed to Hesiod also mentioned Polydora as Peleus' daughter.

Scholiast on Homer, Il. xvi. 175: ...whereas Hesiod and the rest call her (Peleus' daughter) Polydora.

Catalogues of Women, frag 60.  Translation by Evelyn-White, H G.

Polymele

Polymele is a daughter of Peleus briefly mentioned in the Library as one of Patroclus' possible mothers. Considering she was old enough to be a possible mother of Patroclus, she’s also older than Achilles.

Achilles was also accompanied by Patroclus, son of Menoetius and Sthenele, daughter of Acastus; or the mother of Patroclus was Periopis, daughter of Pheres, or, as Philocrates says, she was Polymele, daughter of Peleus.

Library, 3.13.8. Translation by James George Frazer.

Unnamed children 

There is a bizarre version that Thetis somehow managed to burn six children she had with Peleus before he saved Achilles when she tried again, and it’s found in the Photius’ Bibliotheca. This Bibliotheca is Photius giving reviews of the books he has read, so this version isn't his, but rather the person he's evaluating. In this case, he attributed this myth to Ptolemy Hephaestion's New Histories (because of a passage in the Suda, there is a theory that this Ptolemy is Ptolemy Chennus. In this case, Ptolemy Chennus is from Roman Greece. So although Photius is Byzantine, the version isn’t from Byzantine Greece).

Thetis burned in a secret place the children she had by Peleus; six were born; when she had Achilles, Peleus noticed and tore him from the flames with only a burnt ankle-bone and confided him to Chiron.

Photius’ Bibliotheca, 190.46. Translation by John Henry Freese.

For a while, I thought the idea of children having died before Achilles was only present in this source, but look...

Scholiast on Apollonius Rhodius, Arg. iv. 816: The author of the Aegimius says in the second book that Thetis used to throw the children she had by Peleus into a cauldron of water, because she wished to learn where they were mortal . . . And that after many had perished Peleus was annoyed, and prevented her from throwing Achilles into the cauldron.

Aegimius, frag 2. Translation by Evelyn-White, H.G.

Aegimius is a poem generally attributed to Hesiod, and it’s only possible to know part of the content from surviving fragments. Ironically, although the mythological character Aegimius gave the poem its name, this character isn’t prominent in the surviving parts. One of the fragments is known because a scholiastic of Apollonius Rhodius mentioned a version of the myth in which Thetis, wanting to know if her children were mortal or immortal, threw her children into a cauldron of water. Peleus stopped her from doing the same thing to Achilles, which is why he survived. If this poem is indeed by Hesiod, that would date it to Archaic Greece, many years before Hephaestion.

Tzetzes also mentions this version:

"From seven children"; this Lycophron either does not know where he found or is fabricating this, he says that Thetis bore seven male children from Peleus and she threw six of them into the fire and killed them as unworthy of herself, but she was watched and prevented when it came to Achilles. [...]” 

Ad Lycophronem, 178.

He was commenting on this part of Alexandra, by Lycophron:

[...] even him whom one day the exile from Oenone fathered, turning into men the six-footed host of ants,– the Pelasgian Typhon, out of seven sons consumed in the flame alone escaping the fiery ashes.

Alexandra. Translation by A. W. Mair.

 Achilles 

Son of Peleus by Thetis. It's a constant, and there's no need to list sources. By Achilles and Deidamia (daughter of Lycomedes, princess of Skyros), Neoptolemus and Oneiros are Peleus’ grandson (the first is a constant. The second is in Photius, Bibliotheca, 190.20. Both were killed by Orestes, but one was on purpose and the other was accidental.)

My take

When the level of Achilles' lineage is discussed, it’s usually only mentioned that his father is a mortal king and his mother is a goddess. But this lineage is actually even more peculiar than that because of Peleus’ lineage.

As in several cases in mythology, it’s initiated by a divine relationship (the Olympian Zeus, son of the titans Cronus and Rhea, and the Naiad-nymph Aegina — I didn't mention it before, but Zeus kidnapped her). As for Aegina, she’s daughter of the River Asopus. Asopus has more than one attributed father/mother, but it’s usually of a divine nature. In texts that attribute a mother to her, that mother is the Naiad-nymph Metope, daughter of the River Ladon (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4.72.1). Aeacus, though mortal, had divine blood on both sides, and even after death had some position in the Underworld.

Aeacus married Endeis, which depending on the source is the daughter of the mortal king Sciron or the centaur Chiron (son of the titan Chronos and the Oceanid-nymph Philyra) and her mother is Charichlo (a nymph of Mount Pelion). They had Peleus and Telamon. Aeacus had Phocus with the Nereid Psamathe (daughter of Nereus and Oceanid Doris), who was forced. 

Telamon eventually became king of Salamis. With Periboea (a princess), Telamon had Ajax the Great. In the first attack on Troy led by Heracles, the Trojan princess Hesione was given as a concubine to Telamon, and they had Teucer (in the same myth as the first attack on Troy, Heracles gave the name Ajax). Peleus married Antigone (princess of Phthia), and had Polydora with her. Polydora had a son named Menesthius (a Myrmidon) with the River Spercheus. Peleus later married the Nereid-nymph Thetis (yes, she is Psamathe's sister) and they had Achilles, a demigod with a great prophecy. Peleus was also king of Phthia. Achilles, with the princess of Skyros Deidamia, had Neoptolemus (also with an important prophecy). Neoptolemus had children with Andromache, former wife of the Trojan crown prince Hector (she was given to him as a prize), but none were very prominent.

Although when talking about Achilles' lineage, Thetis still seems to be the one that has the greatest prominence, his other illustrious relatives through Peleus are also mentioned, after all his kinship with Zeus comes especially from his father's side. And as already said in the Aeacus part, Achilles is also often associated with Aeacus, who is from the paternal side.

"Memnon, how wast thou so distraught of wit that thou shouldst face me, and to fight defy me, who in might, in blood, in stature far surpass thee? From supremest Zeus I trace my glorious birth; and from the strong Sea-god Nereus, begetter of the Maids of the Sea, the Nereids, honoured of the Olympian Gods. And chiefest of them all is Thetis, wise with wisdom world-renowned; for in her bowers she sheltered Dionysus, chased by might of murderous Lycurgus from the earth. Yea, and the cunning God-smith welcomed she within her mansion, when from heaven he fell. Ay, and the Lightning-lord she once released from bonds. The all-seeing Dwellers in the Sky remember all these things, and reverence my mother Thetis in divine Olympus. Ay, that she is a Goddess shalt thou know when to thine heart the brazen spear shall pierce sped by my might. Patroclus' death I avenged on Hector, and Antilochus on thee will I avenge. No weakling's friend thou hast slain! But why like witless children stand we here babbling our parents' fame and our own deeds? Now is the hour when prowess shall decide."

Posthomerica, 537-562. Translation by A.S Way.

PHOCUS’ DEATH AND PHITHIA

As already established, Phocus is Peleus' half-brother on his father's side. Phocus was killed by Peleus/Telamon/Peleus and Telamon (depends on the version), which led to both having to flee and settle in other lands because of the crime (Pausanias, Description of Greece, 2.29; Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.12.6; Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica, 1.90; Euripides, Andromache, 642; Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4.72.5; Antoninus Liberalis,  Metamorphoses, 38; Hyginus, Fabulae, 14.2; Ioannis Tzetzes, Ad Lycophronem, 175bis).

The details of Phocus' death depends. Here are some versions:

Euripides (480 BC–406 BC), in Andromache, writes Menelaus accusing Peleus of having killed Phocus. He doesn’t mention Telamon, so perhaps the version here is that only Peleus killed Phocus.

Apollonius Rhodius (3rd century BC) describes the situation as "when in their folly they had slain their brother Phoeus", which indicates the participation of both brothers.

In the version given by Antoninus Liberalis (but credited to Nicander of Colophon, who is from 2nd century BC), Aeacus had Phocus as his favorite, which made Telamon and Peleus jealous and led them to secretly kill Phocus (together). In other words, planned homicide with the participation of both.

According to Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC), Peleus accidentally killed Phocus by hitting him with a disc. In other words, accidental homicide by Peleus.

Hyginus (64 BC–17 AD) says that Telamon and Peleus had to flee because of the slaughter of Phocus, but doesn’t go into detail.

Plutarch (46 AD–119 AD) mentions a version of the myth given by Dorotheus, where Phocus and Telamon are both brothers of father and mother (Psamathe being the mother). Aeacus preferred Phocus, so Telamon killed him during a hunt. There is no Peleus in this version, and the murder is planned and executed only by Telamon.

Pausanias (110 AD–180 AD) says that Telamon and Peleus planned Phocus' death to please Endeis (their mother, who isn’t Phocus' mother). They induced Phocus to compete with them in the pentathlon, and Peleus killed him by hitting him with the stone used as a quoit. In other words, a planned homicide with the participation of both, and the person responsible for the fatal blow was Peleus.

Pseudo-Apollodorus' (1st or 2nd century AD) version is that Phocus stood out among the three because he was very atletic, which made Telamon and Peleus jealous. Telamon killed Phocus during a match by throwing a quoit at his head, and Peleus later helped carry and hide the body. In other words, a planned homicide with the participation of both, and the person responsible for the fatal blow was Telamon.

Tzetzes (1100 AD–1180 AD) explained the prophecies of “Alexandra”, written by Lycophron. When explaining the “Oenone” present in the prophecies, he offered a version of the myth of Phocus' death. According to Tzetzes, the place of death was in a gymnasium and it occurred in the following way: Peleus first hit him with a disc, and then Telamon stabbed him in the back with a sword and thus Phocus died. In this case there was active participation by both brothers, although Telamon was responsible for the fatal blow. He also gives more details: Psamathe, Phocus' mother, was angered by her son's death and sent a wolf to destroy Peleus' cattle. Thetis later intervenes and the wolf is turned to stone (either by Thetis or by Psamathe at Thetis' request).

Considering the possibility that Telamon may not have been Peleus' brother in the older versions of the myth (which I have already mentioned in the Telamon part of the family section), there is also the possibility that in the older versions regarding Phocus' death, Peleus was the only active participant. However, this is only a possibility and not a fact. Furthermore, it seems to me that in most versions the death was planned and not accidental.

In any case, regardless of how Phocus' death occurred, the versions result in this: Peleus and Telamon fled Aegina, the first went to Phithia and the second to Salamis.

Tzetzes, in a version he credits to Pherekydes (6th century BC), says that Peleus was purified by Eurytion, son of Actor, and married his daughter Antigone.

Apollonius Rhodius (3rd century BC) wrote “Telamon dwelt in the Attic island; but Peleus departed and made his home in Phthia”. Hyginus follows Apollonius's description, crediting him.

According to Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC), Peleus fled to Phithia/Thessaly, where he was purified of his crime by King Actor. Peleus succeeded to the kingship because Actor had no children.

In the version given by Antoninus Liberalis (between 100 AD and 300 AD), Peleus went to Eurytion son of Irus (note that he isn’t "son of Actor”. This Eurytion son of Irus is cited by Apollonius as one of the Argonauts) and prayed for and received from him purification.

According to Pseudo-Apollodorus (1st or 2nd century AD), Peleus fled to Phithia, where King Eurytion, son of Actor, purified Peleus of his crime and offered him his daughter Antigone as a wife and the third part of Phithia to lead.

If we consider that he ascended to the throne of Phithia through marriage with Antigone (princess of Phithia), these versions tends to have Polydora as a daughter. However, she gets married and is no longer present in Phithia (as she has moved away) in moments like The Iliad, for example.

EURYTION’S DEATH AND CALYDONIAN BOAR HUNT 

Peleus kills someone else, this time Eurytion and really accidentally. The intention was to hit a boar, but he hit him instead. (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 1.8.2 and 3.13.2; Antoninus Liberalis,  Metamorphoses, 38; Ioannis Tzetzes, Ad Lycophronem, 175bis). As to whether this boar is an ordinary animal or the divine animal of Artemis, it’s ambiguous in some versions. And if you're wondering why the hell it would be a divine animal, the answer is that Peleus, like other heroes of his time, participated in the Calydonian Boar Hunt (Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 1.8.2; Hyginus, Fabulae, 173; Pausanias, Description of Greece, 8.45.6; Philostratus the Younger, Imagines, 15. Note: there was another Imagines written by another Philostratus, called Philostratus the Elder. Here I'm talking about the youngest. And this Elder isn’t the same Philostratus as Philostratus the Athenian).

Regarding the versions of the Calydonian Boar Hunt, Philostratus the Younger (3rd century AD) says that Meleager and Peleus were both responsible for the fatal blow to the boar, although the protagonism still focuses on Meleager and Peleus here functions more as a type of helper. Overall, generally the most memorable heroes of the Hunt are Atalanta, remembered for being the first to shoot the boar, and Meleager, remembered for being the one who killed it. Peleus’ participation does not seem to be a strong highlight.

In regards to Eurytion's accidental death:

Antoninus Liberalis, in a version credited to Nicander of Colophon (who is from 2nd century BC), says that Peleus accidentally killed Eurytion (son of Irus, not Actor) while hunting a wild boar. This boar isn’t specified as being the Calydonian.

Pseudo-Apollodorus (1st or 2nd century AD) says that Peleus was among the participants in the Calydonian Boar Hunt, the animal was sent by Artemis in her fury because the king had forgotten to honor her. In an attempt to hit the animal, Peleus accidentally hit Eurytion (here Actor's son and Peleus' father-in-law). He then fled Phithia and ended up in Iolcus, where he was purified by Acastus.

Tzetzes (1100 AD–1180 AD) says that the wife Peleus had before Thetis, Polymele, had a brother named Irus. This brother had a son named Eurytion (thus Peleus' nephew by marriage), whom he accidentally killed during a hunt. Again, there is no mention of the Calydonian boar.

ACASTUS 

This Acastus of the title is the same one who purified Peleus of Eurytion's death, depending on the version. He’s from Iolcus and is the son of Pelias (Pelias being the king of Iolcus who sent his nephew Jason, son of his half-brother on his mother's side Aeson, on the journey after the golden fleece). One of Acastus's recorded daughters, Sthenele, is listed as a possible mother of Patroclus.

Acastus had a wife who fell in love with Peleus, was refused by him and falsely accused him of trying to force himself on her, which made Acastus plot Peleus' death (Pindar, Nemean Odes, 4.50 and 5.25; Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library, 3.13.3; Scholia of Pindar, 4.95; Hesiod, Catalogues of Women, frag 55 and 56).

Two fragments attributed to Hesiod's Catalogues of Women (8th century BC) state that 1) Hesiod narrated the case in detail 2) Peleus had a sword made by Hephaestus, which Acastus hid because then Peleus would look for it alone in Pelion and be killed by centaurs.

Pindar (518 BC–438 BC) says that Acastus' wife Hippolyta repeatedly offered herself to Peleus. Peleus refused her each time for fear of the wrath of Zeus, god of hospitality (as he was Acastus's guest), which made Hippolyta falsely accuse him of trying to force himself on her. Acastus then planned Peleus' death, using a sword as a device. However, Chiron rescued Peleus and, as a reward for being a good guest, Zeus decided to reward him by giving him Thetis as his wife. A scholiast of this ode by Pindar, which unfortunately I only found in Greek, mentioned that Acastus' intention was for Peleus to be killed by the centaurs. He also mentions a version by Hesiod, which is the same as frag 56 that I mentioned since this fragment was taken from this scholia.

Pseudo-Apollodorus (1st or 2nd century AD) says that Acastus' wife, Astydamia, in love with Peleus, sent him a proposal. But he refused her, which left her dissatisfied. In revenge, Astydamia sent Peleus's wife at the time, Antigone, a message warning that he was going to marry Sterope, daughter of Acastus. Antigone believed it and, thinking she would be passed over, hanged herself. Not satisfied, Astydamia also falsely accused Peleus of trying to force himself on her and Acastus, believing his wife, was furious. He didn’t want to kill Peleus himself, as he had purified him, so he planned for him to die some other way. When Peleus and Acastus went hunting, Acastus hid Peleus's sword and abandoned him. When he woke up, Peleus went to look for his sword and, unarmed, was almost captured by the centaurs. However, Chiron saved him and also gave him back his sword, and he found it before Peleus.

Overall, there are the following constants: Peleus is Acastus's guest, Acastus' wife wants to lie with Peleus, Peleus rejects her, Acastus' wife falsely accuses him of trying to force himself on her, Acastus plans for Peleus to die at Pelion, Peleus is saved by Chiron.

THE CONTINUATION IS IN THE REBLOG!

[lgbtplushistory]

390 CE

Dionysiaca by Nonnus of Panopolis is the last known piece of Western literature to celebrate homosexual passion for nearly 1,000 years. The main subject is the life of Dionysus, his expedition to India, and return to the west.

[epic-sorcerer]

Merlin would have been so much more gay if the writers stayed true to Celtic paganism(the historicaly accurate “old religion”)

Trigger warnings:

Main triggers: talk of sex, homophobia, religion, Catholics, colonization, anti Celtic, murder

Mention triggers: rape and sexual assault, creepy men, gore, insest, toxic masculinity

I will mark the sections with quick triggers with 2 red lines. Below the second one is when the trigger is gone.

_____________

I am posting this on December 21st, as today is the Winter Solstice, a Celtic Pagan holiday. It will be posted at 3:33 PM, as 3 is a sacred number among the celts. Because of the special occasion, I will be speaking on a subject that was important to many of them—homosexuality.

Some stuff first for introductions. Yes, yes, I know this may be boring but it helps with context. This religion didn’t have a name other than Celtic pagan or Celtic religion bc it seams everyone there believed it. This was until the Roman Empire concurred what is now the UK. Since Rome had adopted Christianity—more specifically, Roman Catholocism—they only allowed that religion to be practiced.

———(genocide)——

Once England was concurred in 43 A.D, the pagans were killed and their religion was surpressed. Not much is known about the pagans for this reason. However, we do know somethings from what the Romans have written down. Although, it is biased, as they believed the celts to be barbaric and also didn’t wright much about women.

——gore ——

First, we know they preformed human sacrifice on kings when the kingdom suffered along with some other groups.This could be from bad ruling to really bad weather. These kings died horribly, as they seamed to be stabbed multiple times, had thier nipples cut off, and left to die in a bog.

They had thier nipples cut off because the subjects would suck on the kings’ nipples to demonstrate submission, so cutting them off would fully dethrone the king.

—————

Now, background over. Here’s where it gets good.

Nipple sucking between too lovers or ‘special friends’ was seen as a preclemation of love, physical intimacy, and sexual expression. This, like other types of sex, was seen as something beutiful and sacred. Often, male soldiers would have these ‘special friend’ relationships with many fellow soldiers in groups. The Romans even observed that Celtic men seamed to prefer other males for love/sexual interest over women.

Nipple sucking was mostly described was between two men. Although, we must recognize that women may have been left out of written history. I would also like to point out, this may prove that aromantic people existed in that time, as these ‘special friends’ had sex and were not mentioned to be romantically involved.

The celts were known for their sex positivity and even eroticism because they loved it so much.This is one of the reasons why the pagans and the Chatholics clashed so badly.

Before the Romans really took over, Saint Patrick—yes, the Saint Patrick—started to try to convert the celts into Roman catholosim. He was appalled at the wide acceptance of polyamory(women were aloud to marry however many people they wanted) and homosexual relationships/marriages. Not to mention the celts could have sex with any one at any time as long as it is consensual.

——(Tw creepy men)——

That means no waiting til marriage, unless a Celtic chose to do so. Although we should take into consideration a statement made by Diodorus Siculus, an antient Greek historian, that “the young men will offer themselves to strangers and are insulted if the offer is refused.” In his series Bibliotheca historica. This could mean that either creepy men were comman place, or that homosexuality was so comman and done with everyone, it was wierd to be rejected.

————

Getting back to the Roman Catholics, the book Sextus Empiricus is published in the early 3th century and states,

“...amongst the Persians it is the habit to indulge in intercourse with males, but amongst the Romans it is forbidden by law to do so...”

It also goes on to say,

“...amongst us sodomy is regarded as shameful or rather illegal, but by the Germanic they say, it is not looked on as shameful but as a customary thing.”

For clarification, Germany is apart of Celtic society. So what we can infer is a very serious culture shock in terms of Rome and other places. During Emporor Serverus Alexander’s reign, openly homosexuals were deported.

In early 4th century, Emporor Constaine—the first Christian Roman Emperor—destroyed an Egyptian temple populated exclusively by femme, gay, pagan, priests. The Emproror then went on to eradicate all of them. However in 337 A.D., 3 emperors ruled, including Constantius II and Constans I, who where both in mlm relationships.

An odd thing these emporors went on to do was criminalize male bottoming during mlw sex 342 A.D.. 8 years later, Emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius ferther punished this act by killing these men by Public burning at the stake.

———(Tw toxic masculinity)———

I believe this was because masculinity was very important and a man acting in a more feminine role was seen as emasculating and humiliating. For the average man, he had to fight and defend his masculinity. Not doing so was seen as a personal failure.

——————

The last ever known peice of European literature containing a positive representation of homosexuality for 1,000 years was a large epic poem by Nonnus of Panopolis. It was titled Dionysiaca and the first part was published in 390 A.D., the last in 405 A.D..

So yeah, The catholics were very selective in terms of sex. One can only imagine how badly the celts and Catholics clashed. Back to 435 A. D., Saint Patrick began to preach Catholism and around that time wrote in his Confessio. He recounted that he found a boat to get out of Ireland and refused to suck on the nipples of those aboard.

“And on the same day that I arrived, the ship was setting out from the place, and I said that I had the wherewithal to sail with them; and the steersman was displeased and replied in anger, sharply: ‘By no means attempt to go with us.’ Hearing this I left them to go to the hut where I was staying, and on the way I began to pray, and before the prayer was finished I heard one of them shouting loudly after me: ‘Come quickly because the men are calling you.’ And immediately I went back to them and they started to say to me: ‘Come, because we are admitting you out of good faith; make friendship with us in any way you wish.’ (And so, on that day, I refused to suck the breasts of these men from fear of God, but nevertheless I had hopes that they would come to faith in Jesus Christ, because they were barbarians.) And for this I continued with them, and forthwith we put to sea.”

—(Tw very mild rape/sex assault mention—

So, as you can see, Celtic and Catholic ways clashed horribly. Something seen as good and sacred to the indigenous tribes was seen as barbaric and sinful to Saint Patrick. Also, don’t worry, the celts did not press the issue ferther, or else this would be a very different story.

—————

This only snowballed into a much bigger issue much later in medival English sexuality. They were VERY picky on what sex was aloud. Missionary was the only aloud position and it has to be the least pleasurable as possible. Making out and masturbation wasn’t aloud either, as that was also seen as a sin. Here’s a low Rez chart to help figure out when sex was okay.

While we are discussing such a queer topic, I would like to bring up the topic of Anam Cara, or Soul Friends in Antient Celtic culture. A Soul Friend was a word used to describe a Philosophy in which one is not completely whole without thier “other half.” This person can be in a platonic, romantic, or familiar kind of love. Really, all it boils down to is that 2 poeple were made to be together since the beginning of time and will be at thier strongest when they become companions.

There is a Celtic legend that seams to depict a mlm Anam Cara relationship. It tells the story of Cuchulainn and Ferdiad, two male worriors who have known and loved each other a long time. But they must kill each other in a duel. Both are vary reluctant, as at least one of them will have to die.

————(Tw insest)———

Before I go on, it is important to mention there is a lot of debate on wether or not this is homosexual. Mainly because they were foster brothers, but since insest wasn’t as much of a taboo, I do not think this would be as much of a set back as it is today.

—————

They had tried to kill each other each day for 3 days, but they ended up hugging each other and kissing 3 times. On the fourth day, however, Cuchulainn killed Ferdiad. The man then holds Ferdiad in his arms and sings peoms for a long time. Here are some:

“We were heart-companions once,

We were comrades in the woods,

We were men that shared a bed

When we slept the heavy sleep

After hard and weary fights.

Into many lands, so strange,

And side by side we sallied forth

And we ranged the woodlands through,When with Scathach we learned arms!”

Heart companions seams to be similar or the same as soul freind, because of how it’s used. Although sleeping in the same bed isn’t inherently sexual, Cuchulainn then goes on to complement Ferdiad’s physical features.

“Dear to me thy noble blush,

Dear thy comely, perfect form;

Dear thine eye, blue-grey and clear,

Dear thy wisdom and thy speech”

Although this is deeply sweet I would also like to caution that Chuhulainn may have simply been commenting on his healthiness, but blush is an odd word considering he is now dead.

Two male lovers, one dead in the other’s arms. Soul friends, maybe. Reminds me of a certain show..I don’t know I just can’t put my finger on it...

I would also like to point out that because Celtics did not pressure others to have sex, and that a soul friend can be any type of love, I do think that an asexual or someone on that spectrum could live without judgment.Unfortunately, I could not find much about intersex, androgynous, or trans people. Perhaps if I find anything in the future and will make a new post.

In conclusion, if Merlin were more historicaly accurate, he definitely would have been queer. Especially because he is said to be magic itself, it would make sense for him to be the personification of Celtic values. That may include homosexuality, because as previously stated, Celtic men really liked other men.

I’m excited to see what will come of this post, seeing as not a lot of people in the fandom seem to know this. More fanfiction? More fanart? It would probably inspire a lot of creators. So, if you do make something because of this post, please notify me in the notes, an ask, an @ or something. Basically anything but a PM. I would be happy to see/read the creation.

Sources:

Sexuality and love in Celtic society:

Same Sex Celts

Druid Thoughts: of Sex and Druids

Anam Cara, what’s a soul mate?

Sexuality in Ancient Ireland

The Celts, Women, and Sex

LGBT history

Sexuality and love in Medival Society:

Getting down and medival: the sex lives of the Middle Ages

Sex in the Middle Ages

Here’s What Sex Was Like In Medieval Times. It’ll Make You Feel Glad You Weren’t Born Back Then!

General Celtic Society:

Who Were the Celts

Celtic Religion and Belieifs

Saint Patrick

17 Things You Probably Didnt know about Saint Patrick

Confession of Saint Patrick

Cuchulainn and Ferdiad

Cuchulainn and Ferdiad, Gay Lovers?

The Combat of Ferdiad and Cuchulain

Insest in Antient Celtic Society

Ancient Irish elite practiced incest, new genetic data from Neolithic tomb shows

Homosexuality in the Roman Empire

Timeline of LGBT history

Timeline of LGBT history in the United Kingdom

[coolancientstuff]

Tapestry with Dionysiac busts in roundels

Egypt, 5th-7th century AD

Leafy tendrils frame twelve (originally fifteen) busts of satyrs, maenads, and others who attended the wine god Dionysos during his thiasoi, or revels. His tutor, Silenus is the bald man at the lower right. Herakles appears as the bearded man at upper left. The two figures with horns in the second row may be Pan and one of his sons who, according to Nonnus of Panopolis, assisted Dionysos in his conquest of India. The women are amongst the maenads who attended him. These mythological figures are typical of the continuity of interest in classical learning and culture in the Byzantine world, including Egypt.

[brauronia]

‘—But Zeus? / Sitting in silence, no cloud to call his own, and twiddling / His thunderless thumbs, completely deprived of his natural noise.’

Nonnus of Panopolis, Dionysiaca, book 1 (trans. Douglass Parker).

[theancientgeekoroman]

List of Extant Epics & Lost Epics

In an effort to try and find all the epics I may possibly have to read and the lost/fragmentary epics I will probably compile into one place eventually for my final paper for my Ancient Historiography course, here is what I think is all the epics (with titles, not necessarily authors whose titles we don’t know; anonymous/cycle poems are going to be listed without authors) that I am going to have to include/mention. Incomplete works are staying with extant because it’s not the author’s fault they died in the middle of writing it (my worst fear as a writer tbh).

If any Classicists who follow me want to point out any I missed, I would absolutely appreciate it because I am so tired already.  And our second class is Thursday.

Okay, so!

Extant Works:

Homer: 

Iliad

Odyssey 

Hesiod

Works and Days

Theogony

Shield of Heracles

Apollonius of Rhodes

Argonautica

Lucretius:

De rerum natura (does this count under epic? It was listed on the list I found and I can see why but also...is it tho)

Vergil:

Georgics (?)

Aeneid

Ovid:

Metamorphoses (?)

Lucan:

Pharsalia / De Bello Civili   

Gaius Valerius Flaccus:

Argonautica

Silius Italicus: 

Punica

Publius Papinius Statius: 

Thebaid

Achilleid (incomplete)

Faltonia Betitia Proba:

Cento Vergilianus de laudibus Christi

Quintus Smyrnaeus (Quintus of Smyrna): 

Posthomerica

Claudian: 

De raptu Proserpinae (incomplete)

Argonautica Orphica (Unknown Author)

Nonnus of Panopolis: 

Dionysiaca (incomplete?)

Lost and Fragmentary Epics:

Adrianus: 

Alexandriad (one-line fragment)

Aeschylus of Alexandria: 

Amphitryon (fragment)

Messeniaca

Alexander Aetolus: 

Fisherman 

Kirka or Krika

Helena (fragments)

Antimachus of Colophon: 

Thebais

Choerilus of Samos: 

Perseis or Persika

Cicero

de Consulatu suo

Ennius: 

Annales

The Epic Cycle: 

Cypria

Aethiopis

the so-called Little Iliad

Iliupersis

Nostoi

Telegony

Eumelus of Corinth: 

Titanomachy

Euphorion of Chalcis: 

Thrax

Gaius Helvius Cinna:

Zmyrna

Hesiod: 

Catalogue of Women

Aegimius (may have been authored by Cercops of Miletus)

Astronomia (is this an epic?)

Descent of Perithous

Idaean Dactyls (is this an epic?)

Megala Erga

Megalai Ehoiai

Melampodia

Wedding of Ceyx

Homer: 

Cercopes

Iullus Antonius:

Diomedia

Moero/Myro: 

Mnemosyne

Gnaeus Naevius

Bellum Punicum

Nestor of Laranda: 

Ilias leipogrammatos

Metamorphoses 

(uncertain if considered epics)

Nicander of Colophon: 

Heteroeumena

Peisander of Laranda: 

Heroikai Theogamiai

Phaedimus of Bisanthe: 

Heracleia

Pigres of Halicarnassus: 

Margites

Batrachomyomachia 

(above works also attributed to Homer)

Rhianus: 

Messeniaca (most celebrated)

Achaica

Eliaca

Heracleia

Thessalica

The Theban Cycle: 

Oedipodea

Thebaid

Epigoni

Alcmeonis

I think that’s all of them. Again, if you could clarify (if you know) whether some of these would be considered epics, please let me know. Some of them I’m unsure of, as noted. Some obviously could be epics but I haven’t sat down to analyze for sure which of them are except for the ones I’ve read since I was a wee undergrad. Most of these were new to me a couple days ago. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post! 

[nysus-temple]

I think there was a myth of Dionysus

At the direction of Hera, the infant Zagreus/Dionysus was torn to pieces, cooked, and eaten by the evil Titans. But his heart was saved by Athena, and he (now Dionysus) was resurrected by Zeus through Semele. Zeus struck the Titans with lightning, and they were consumed by fire.

Like i know there are many myths of him but damn that was brutal and Dionysus had it rough from the start 😅

Yes, that myth is described in the Dionysias by Nonnus of Panopolis and the Orphic Hymns. And some other anonymous Orphic texts. Zagreus is Dionysus' Orphic name, kind of. There's a very little tiny evidence that Zagreus could have been a different god instead of just another name for Dionysus, but honestly, it's not as strong.

In the Dionysias, Nonnus' expands the Orphic story by saying that Zagreus was meant to dethrone Zeus, that he was capable of even using his lightning bolts, and of course, Hera did not like this occuring.

Hera distracted the infant Zagreus with toys and the titans (or, as other say, the giants) murdered him. Zagreus turned into different animals in a way to escape, but he was still dismembered and eaten by them. I wouldn't call them evil, though, they kind of... Just obeyed orders.

Some say it was Apollo, others Athena, the one who was able to save his heart and resurrect him. Some say Zeus put him on his leg directly (which would make Semele kind of irrelevant) and others, such as Nonnus, say that Zeus gave the heart to Semele.

I talk a bit about that myth here.

And yes, Dionysus didn't have a normal childhood (or, well, no god did, I suppose). Regardless of which myths we read, even if we throw away all of his reincarnation shenanigans, he had it rough.

He was never with Persephone nor Semele, his moms. But at least he spends some time in the Underworld with the first one, it's better than nothing. Semele, on the other hand... Yeah, I don't think her soul would recognize him in Hades but, those are just my thoughts.

[bibliotecarubenbonifaz]

Nonnus of Panopolis (fifth century CE) composed two poems once thought to be incompatible: the Dionysiaca, a mythological long epic with a marked interest in astrology, the occult, the paradox and not least the beauty of the female body, and a pious and sublime Paraphrase of the Gospel of St John. Little is known about the man, to whom sundry identities have been attached. The longer work has been misrepresented as a degenerate poem or as a mythological handbook. The Christian poem has been neglected or undervalued. Yet, Nonnus accomplished an ambitious plan, in two parts, aiming at representing world-history. This volume consists mainly of the Proceedings of the First International Conference on Nonnus held in Rethymno, Crete in May 2011. With twentyfour essays, an international team of specialists place Nonnus firmly in his time's context. After an authoritative Introduction by Pierre Chuvin, chapters on Nonnus and the literary past, the visual arts, Late Antique paideia, Christianity and his immediate and long-range afterlife (to modern times) offer a wide-ranging and innovative insight into the man and his world. The volume moves on beyond stereotypes to inaugurate a new era of research for Nonnus and Late Antique poetics on the whole.

[nysus-temple]

What about Hermes and Dionysus? 👀

DEPENDS if you're asking about sources OR my ideas. Because i can talk for HOURS about both of those. Hermes and Dionysus are just soooo......... They mean so much to me it's stupid at this point.

I'll stick with the sources for now and summarize them the best i can, and then some ideas that i hope i can summarize too; so i talk about both since you didn't specify and i would hate to leave you without an exact answer nskdnfk

Out of all the gods, when Dionysus arrives to Olympus (post-reincarnation), it's Hermes the one who is trusted the most to take care of him. He saved him from Hera's wrath a couple of times. Like Apollonius of Rhodes mentions in the Argonautica, he saved him from FIRE. FROM FLAMES.

Our good Nonnus of Panopolis also talks about this episode ! Saying Hermes traveled around with him for a while, and during that time he also asked several groups of nymphs to educate him. He even played and spend time with him alone, i think we all know this sculpture of Praxiteles, one of the few Greek originals that have survived to this day:

AND when Dionysus was a young man, not an infant anymore, Hermes left him with Rhea, who educated him in relation with his powers, like for example, being incapable of getting drunk.

Not only that, but there's also the fact that we all know, of Hermes being the psychopomp of Hades. I've always liked to imagine it's him, by Zeus' order, who took Dionysus to Olympus when he was Zagreus, after Persephone gave birth to him. Since in the Orphic Hymns, Persephone takes care of him AFTER he's reincarnated, not when she gives birth to him.

Nonnus of Panopolis also specifies in the end of his Dionysiaca that Dionysus sits next to Hermes at Olympus <3

Remember the Minyades shenanigans Dionysus had? Out of ALL the gods, it was Hermes who took pity on them, it was Hermes who was with him-

I think it's really funny that, like, Hermes was there when Ariadne and Dionysus had children, like, look:

What is he doing there lmao. "Hey do you two need a second dad-"

AND NOW, BEHOLD, MY STUFF ! Some random concepts and ideas i had of them, go down if you wanna read them or skip if you were here for the sources only.

i've always felt that Hermes has a hard time showing Dionysus how he feels about him. Why? Because he's really good with words, but not gestures; and Dionysus only finds appreciation though gestures, not words. That's due to his way of thinking that everyone is always liying to him, how no one told him about Persephone and Semele, about Gaia's feelings towards him, about how many people were going to treat him... Bad. No one advised him that. They educated him, took care of him and... Lied to him. He died. He was killed. And yet, no one had the courage to tell him. So Hermes thinks it's... Wrong, to tell him that he loves him. That he always cared about him. That he always sacrificed anything he had for him. That didn't matter how many times he reincarnated, for him, he was still Dionysus, his Dionysus. But the other just, well, doesn't feel anything when hearing that. So used to actors and mysteries, that he's incapable of believing him, even if he wanted to.

"Ariadne hugs me. Mother hugs me. Artemis hugs me. You hug me. What's the difference between you all?" that gesture just doesn't reach him.

i just love how Hermes is... Always looking at Dionysus when they are represented together? How he's always next to him? How he's always like... Feeling bad for the way Dionysus ends up being due to their own mistakes? He feels everyone should have told him the truth about his origins, but the rest insisted in not letting him know.

I KNOW I KNOW there are no actual heights for the gods and they all look the same BUT BUT in human form, Dionysus is taller than Hermes and LOVES to pick him up because it bothers Hermes, since, well, when they were younger it was the other way around, Dionysus was the small one... How the turn tables.

They're both gods and they both had to do things that we might not like to see from a human point of view, but i love how they execute them so... Differently. Hermes seems to try to be more, like, peaceful, when ending someone's life; yet Dionysus will give them the most horrorific and violent punishment a mortal can recieve. Perhaps that's why Hermes took pity on the Minyades.

Hermes LOVES dropping hints towards the rest, because they always laugh and get them, but Dionysus can't !!! You need to tell him JUST what you wanna say, he does NOT get hints !! And that's hard for Hermes because he doesn't express "i love you" by saying it directly. He's SCREWED.

i've always adored the fact that Dionysus is a god so focused with fertility and insanity and whatever that he forgets how sexual themes actually work and. and he. doesn't get that kind of jokes either. You know:

Dionysus: Hey, your legs look great in those clothes. Hermes: You should see me without them. Dionysus: Hermes: Dionysus, confused: Why would you take off your legs??? Hermes, snorting: That's not—

After his own travel around Greece, Dionysus changed a bit. He was always a little different compared to the rest, but due to the resentment he holds now, he doesn't like being asked about what he does much. And Hermes knows that, so whenever someone does it he inmediatly goes "NOPE NOPE NOPE CLOSE YOUR MOUTH I APPRECIATE THAT YOU'RE ALIVE"

i love to imagine Hermes jumping behind Dionysus' back when he arrives back at Olympus, and that startles him because doesn't matter how many times Hermes does it, he NEVER remembers it.

Hermes is very clingy due to Apollo educating him in order to be like that, but Dionysus isn't. Not that he dislikes it, just as i explained, he has a hard time understanding what you truly mean OKAY he's had a rough life OKAY he was born three times OKAY

Hermes has rams as very important animals in his whole symbolisms and all that AND i associate Dionysus with rams. i know he was more associated with bulls and goats but RAM HORNS are a metaphor for a LEADER and that's how i view Dionysus. So anyways i just think he would hide between Hermes' rams, but Hermes doesn't get startled because he already knows he does this lmao

"Really, Hermes, what do you even see in that guy" Hermes: he has so many issues and he has me enamored with that

HEAR. HEAR ME. One of the few ways Dionysus actually learns to connect with the other is by DANCING. A very important part from his festivals. And he dances in a different way depending on who is the other. And for Hermes. He's. Elegant, graceful, decorous... He really feels like a LIBERATOR for Hermes. Like. Someone who isn't connected to his duties, because even the twins, who are precious to him, remind him of that somehow. But Dionysus doesn't and everytime they dance Hermes feels so good. Dionysus is just. Chilling. He knows what he's doing for once.

Persephone is Dionysus' mom, and after being separated from him for a long time, she has some fear for the rest of the gods getting near him. You know. Just like Demeter. Persephone was kidnapped from her AND Dionysus was taken away from Persephone as well. So Persephone doesn't, you know, trust Hermes that much. She loves and appreciates everything he does, she doesn't hate him, she can't, he's very dear to her ( just like Hades for Demeter ) BUT she has that resentment feeling tormenting her everytime she sees them together. uuggghhh

After Ariadne dies Hermes has even a harder time to connect with Dionysus. He doesn't know how he feels after that. Due to having various mortals around him (Semele, Ariadne, and others perhaps) die since, they're mortals, he doesn't know how to stay near him without making Dionysus feel he's taking advantage of him. That hurts him a lot, because those aren't his intentions. But he also wished that he learned that, he needs to learn the consequences of getting attached to mortals. Consequences Dionysus never accepts.

Dionysus can act very distant with the rest, BUT he always ends up being gentle with Hermes. He will hold his hands with care, lean on him carefully.

Hermes: [Talks a lot]. Dionysus: [Listens].

Hermes is a master at lying but HAH you can't lie to Dionysus. He's very, VERY good at reading people's minds. Which is even worse for Hermes since almost NO ONE can read Dionysus' thoughts.

HNNNNNNN I'M SO SORRY THAT'S SO MUCH......... If you've read this far ilysm with my entire being ty for listening to my ramblings. Dionysus and Hermes make me sick. In a good way. Biting the air again.