#Nonnus of Panopolis

[corvidonia]

i both love and hate nonnus. i dont know why he counts as a "classical source" when he's closer to medieval greece than he is to classical greece. hes from the 5th century common era. not before common era. hes literally from imperial rome... scholars love him and hate him. some people like him and some dont. most people do not. did you know that nonnus is the only source (that i could find) in which dionysus sexually assaults someone? yeah 💀 all him!

[brauronia]

‘Let Atlas join the fight / let him break off mountains / launch them against the sphere of stars / he once carried on his shoulders / let the Seasons run in panic […] / Zeus son of Cronus / will heft the spinning mass of heaven / onto his own shoulders / the load of Atlas / and there he will stand / biting back his rancor.’

Tales of Dionysus, book 2, by Nonnus of Panopolis (tr. by William Levitan).

[nysus-temple]

Dionysus' lesser-known myths [or perhaps you do know them, but i will tell you about them anyway]

Some of these myths have already been shown in my blog, but i decided to bring some of them up again in a more elaborated way, plus some new too. Perhaps you've heard of them, perhaps you haven't, but i can tell you i haven't seen them much around here.

And my job isn't reading your minds, it's about writting essays, so here we go.

1. Ampelos (Αμπελος):

According to Nonnus of Panopolis, Ampelos was a satyr (tho not many art represents him as such) who loved Dionysus, and was loved by him as well. Not much of a surprise, since we do know many gods had male lovers.

The problem is that, we're still talking about a satyr, we know how those guys are and act. According to Nonnus, Ampelos was riding a bull while mocking Selene, angrily, she sent a gadfly to sting the bull. The bull ran and threw Ampelos all over the place. Nonnus describes it as a very gore-like death.

Dionysus, upset, ended up turning Ampelos' corpse into a grape vine, and from there, he created wine with his blood... THANKFULY, it was the blood.

Roman mosaic with Ampelos and Bacchus.

2. Midas (Μίδας):

"But Nysus, everybody knows Midas" yes yes, but do you KNOW the actual Greek myths? Or do you know the later, VERY later-on version that appears in Wikipedia? Midas never turned his daughter into gold in the folklore, for example.

Midas was a foreign king who married a greek woman, he was the king of Phrygia, and according to Pausanias, he had a daughter named Zoe. I have absolutely nothing about her except this.

Anyways, going to the important part: Silenus, a companion of Dionysus who used to be one of his foster fathers, got lost while he was... Kind of drunk ( come on, Dionysus can't keep an eye on everyone 24/7 ). Some peasants found him and took him to King Midas, who, as a very loyal follower of Dionysus, recognized Silenus and took care of him. When Dionysus arrived in order to take him back, he thanked Midas and said he would give him in return anything that he wished for... And here it comes: Midas wished to be able to turn everything that he touched to gold, and Dionysus agreed, even though he felt sorry he hadn't thought of it twice.

Midas was happy turning stuff into gold, obviously. But when he touched food and it turned into gold as well and he was unable to eat, he returned to Dionysus asking him to turn it back to normal.

Surprisingly, Dionysus didn't say "no" or "live with the consequences"; he told him to wash himself in the river Pactolus, and, good enough, the gold thingy dissappeared.

I don't have this myth fully narrated by a Greek, instead, from a latin author. The good thing tho, thanks to Herodotus and Pausanias, i know it's realiable.

Monument dedicated to Midas, in the old Prhygia ( now part of Turkey )

3. The Minyades (Μινυάδες):

According to Plutarch, king Minyas had three daughters ( whose names i honestly don't know, they appear in Ovid's Metamorphosis ). He tells that Dionysus appeared in the form of a maiden to invite them to the Dionysian Mysteries, since the rest of the women had already gone there. And they declined, politely, but still declined. This is one of those moments in which we see Dionysus' weak points, no justified anger. They neglected the cult, but had nothing against it anyways.

Still, for him, that wasn't enough.

He drove them mad, like very. Something that for Plutarch was even worse than death, apparently. They even killed their own children and ate them (yikes) dismembering them like Dionysus was once dismembered. The sisters were wandering around the mountains, without Dionysus caring at all.

Until finally, Hermes took pity on them, and turned them into bats, freeing them from the madness.

One of the Minyades showing the dismembered body of her son - Étienne-Barthélémy Garnier

4. Zeus' lighting bolts

This one is short, so i'll get to the point.

We all know what Nonnus' was up to when writing about Dionysus. He said in his work that Zeus recognized him (when being Zagreus) as his heir. Since when he was still a little kid, he was able to climb to his throne and to hold Zeus' lightning bolts. Of course, then the very well-known myth of Hera calling the titants to dismember Dionysus arrives here, since she wanted no heir to the throne.

Things happen, you know.

5. Lykurgos (Λυκοῦργος):

Remember when i talked about this guy in the anger essay? Wellp, here he is again, it's the same, but i'll elaborate on him a bit more.

He was a thracian king, and when he heard that Dionysus was going to Thracia, he ordered to trap all of his female followers in a prison.

Yes, only the women. I guess no men followed Dionysus in Thracia during his reign, not like i can ask him about it.

OF COURSE Pentheus 2.0 would imprison the FOLLOWERS of the god of MADNESS. Of course...

Dionysus got angry ( what a surprise ) and sent a drought towards Thracia + making Lykurgos go mad. It's not Dionysus if he doesn't punish you by making you go mad.

He then proceed to tell the people that the only way to stop that punishment was by killing Lykurgos, and, well, they did. They all killed him, and were freed from the punishment.

Dionysus then stopped the drought, he kept his word, indeed.

Lykurgos attacking his own wife after being induced into madness

6. The punishment of the titans

You think they got away? No, the fuck, of course they didn't.

After Zeus' found out what had happened to Dionysus (Zagreus), he imprisoned them in Tartatus, which caused Gaia to be all sad again, since many of her children had already been imprisoned there. What she did was, as scary as Gaia has always been, burning down everything she could.

The only way Zeus could take pity on her in order to stop that, was by sending a flood.

7. Coresus (Κόρησος):

Callirhoe was a Calydonian woman who scorned Coresus, a priest of Dionysus, who threatened to afflict all the women of Calydon with insanity as the good Dionysus priest he was.

The way to stop this was with a sacrifice, to kill the woman who scorned him. Coresus was ordered to sacrifice her, but he killed himself instead since apparently, he was in love with her and couldn't do it.

Callirhoe was overcome with remorse, and cut her throat at a spring that later received her name.

As always.

Coresus sacrificing himself to save Callirhoe - Jean-Honoré Fragonard

8. The Frogs (Βάτραχοι):

At this point, this isn't lesser-known anymore, and i'm not the biggest fan of Aristophanes' work (i love Euripides way too much, oops) but i'll still summarize what Dionysus has to do with this play.

Dionysus, as the god of theatre he is, wanted to bring back to life one of the great tragedy authors. And he descends to Hades for that, it's a way to mock his connection with it, this is still a comedy.

And after a poetry slam, Aeschylus is chosen in preference to Euripides. Smh, fucking Aristophanes, way to put your preferences.

9. Orpheus' death:

I'm not gonna elaborate on this one THAT much, since i wanna save it for the Apollo & Dionysus essay i have unfinished, which was the second most voted one and it might take more time to finish it.

In any case, do you know all these modern retellings in which they paint Dionysus as the "chill, calm, who only wants to party" dude? And Apollo as the "feral, envious, angry" dude? Well, ya'll are wrong...

Dionysus killed Orpheus due to his jealousy of Apollo's worship. I'm leaving you with this sentence, wait for the other essay to know why Dionysus and Apollo are so complex in terms of feelings. Or, at least, i will try to elaborate on it.

Apollo welcoming Dionysus to the sanctuary of Delphi, which they shared.

10. Dionysus IS physically incapable of getting drunk, live with it:

SHOCK i know. So if i see any of ya'll saying he's drunk 24/7, you better have your testament written.

NONNUS OF PANOPOLIS. DIONYSIACA. LITERAL TEXT: "Only to Dionysus gave Rhea the amethyst that saves the drinker from the chains of madness."

Yes, obviously going for scientifict facts, this doesn't work. It was believed in this world that the amethyst would prevent people from getting drunk. But this is mythology, Dionysus is a god, he can't get drunk even if he wanted to. And it's not like he should, he needs to keep an eye on his followers 24/7. Or do we want to remember what happened to Silenus?

Dude, how the hell do i have to tell you all, that in all text in which people were drinking for honoring Dionysus, they always stopped saying "he wouldn't like to see us this way" HE DOESN'T WANT YA'LL DO GET DRUNK. THAT'S NOT HOW HIS MADNESS WORKED

No. The women in the Bacchae are not ✨girlboss slaaaaay✨ they were feral women. The madness Dionysus used to punish Pentheus and the Theban women is NOT something you should idealize. Euripides didn't want ya'll to call him an icon because "omg the Bacchae is so progresive" GUYS... NO. IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT. It's about showing Dionysus' wrath. Of showing why like with any other god, he's feared.

The Greek gods are not your free playground OC's. You can't invent their sexualities or gender identities just for yourself. They're important figures of a culture and country that still lives. If you want an icon to feel identify with, create one. But don't go around there saying Dionysus is genderfluid JUST because you like seeing him young. No.

I know, personally, genderfluid people, and all of them agree THIS is wrong. I already had the whole pronouns drama with Dionysus, don't start over again with this. Please.

* AHEM * In any case... Hope you enjoyed !

I needed to work A LOT for this essay, since most of these myths weren't listed with sources. Whenever you wanna write a guide about folkore or anything similar, please, list your sources ! i don't want anyone else to go through the pain of needing to research though the catacombs of information JUST to confirm one sentence. Because i went trhough that, there's a reason why i've been researching about Dionysus for more than three years already and i still don't have everything. Thanks for your support and essay requests as always, it makes me INCREDIBLY happy to see so many of you willing to learn about a figure that has been so underappreciated and reduced into nothing like Dionysus, and who is still being misinterpreted to this day.

As always, reblogs would be very appreciated, it's the way people can find my blog for something else than copypaste incorrect quotes, and i always appreciate that kind of support. Of course i do this "por amor al arte" as i would say in Spanish, but still takes time and effort and i'm just a university student. I still will need A LOT of time to be able to work into something more accesible to everyone for the Greek folklore.

For now, this small Tumblr pieces is what i can give. But as always, thank you and χαίρε Διόνυσον 🍇

[hexjulia]

this is such an intriguing combination

"Nonnos of Panopolis in Egypt, who lived in the fifth century of our era, composed the last great epic poem of antiquity. The Dionysiaca, in 48 books, has for its chief theme the expedition of Dionysus against the Indians; but the poet contrives to include all the adventures of the god (as well as much other mythological lore) in a narrative which begins with chaos in heaven and ends with the apotheosis of Ariadne's crown. The wild ecstasy inspired by the god is certainly reflected in the poet's style, which is baroque, extravagant, and unrestrained. It seems that Nonnos was in later years converted to Christianity, for in marked contrast to the Dionysiaca, a poem dealing unreservedly with classical myths and redolent of a pagan outlook, there is extant and ascribed to him a hexameter paraphrase of the Gospel of John."

this commentary assumes he converted but wouldn't it be fun to consider that he might just have treated the gospel like another group of myths he could write poetry about without that necessarily meaning he believed? they're both just good stories with familiar characters that would resonate with a lot of people, so great material for a poet aside from having greater meaning for the believers. people who don't believe still write about jesus all the time

not that i know anything about nonnus or enough about religion in late antiquity to be speculating like this (though i've read enough to know very literal belief was not the only option!) but fun fact you can just think whatever when reading things. anyway i should read this sometime.

[iliiuan]

Epic Fantasy through the Ages

A Chronology of Story

This is a work in progress, but here is my list as of 6 July 2023. Please feel free to send me additions or corrections. I have focused on epic (works that are long and took a long time to create) and fantasy (works that include an element of magic, the supernatural, or superpowers). Some of the list could be categorized as myth, some as Literature™️, some as science fiction, but beyond these categories are the two main criteria of epic and fantasy. I also don't fully know what all of the ancient to modern works encompass, but that's the fun of read and find out. I probably have added some things that don't properly meet my criteria, and that's fine with me. 🌺

Works by Mesopotamian Bards (3100 BC - 539 BC)

Enumah Elish (Epic of Creation)

Atrahasis (The Flood)

Epic of Gilgamesh

Descent of Ishtar

Epic of Erra

Etana

Adapa

Anzu

Nergel and Ereshkigal

Avesta by Zoroastrian Bards (1500 BC)

Ramayana by Valmiki (750+ BC)

Mahabharata by Vayasa (750+ BC)

The Illiad and the Odyssey by Homer (650+ BC)

Thoegeny; Works and Days by Hesiod (650+ BC)

Popol Vuh (4th century BC)

The Torah and other Jewish stories (4th century BC)

Argonautica by Apollonius of Rhodes (270 BC)

Bellum Punicam by Gnaeus Naevius (200 BC)

Annales by Ennius (170 BC)

De Rerum Natura by Lucretius (50 BC)

Poem 64 by Catullus (50 BC)

The Aenid by Virgil (19 BC)

Metamorphoses by Ovid (2 AD)

Punica by Silius Italicus (50 AD)

Satyrica by Petronius (60 AD)

Pharsalia or Bellum Civile by Lucan (62 AD)

Argonautica by Valerius Flaccus (70 AD)

Thebaid by Statius (90 AD)

The Irish Myth Cycles: Mythological, Ulster, Fenian, and Kings (3rd Century AD)

The Bible and other Christian stories (5th century AD)

Dionysiaca by Nonnus of Panopolis (500 AD)

The Quran and other Muslim stories (7th century AD)

Arabian Nights (7th century AD)

Hildebrandslied and other German heroic lays by Bards (830 AD)

Shahnameh by Ferdowsi (977 or 1010 AD)

Chanson de Roland (1125 AD)

Cantar de Mio Sid (1200 AD)

The Dietrich Cycle (1230 AD)

Poetic Edda and Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson and others (1270 AD)

Beowulf by Old English Bards (11th century AD)

Nibelungenlied by Middle High German Bards (1200)

Amadís de Gaula (13th century AD)

The Divine Comedy by Dante Alghieri (1308)

Teseida by Bocaccio (1340 AD)

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Middle English Bards (14th century)

The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (1392)

Morgante by Luigi Pulci (1483)

Le morte d'Arthur by Thomas Mallory (1485)

Orlando Innamorato by Boiardo (1495)

Orlando Furioso by Ariosto (1516)

Os Lusiadas by Camoes (1572)

Gerusalemme Liberata by Tasso (1581)

Plays and Poems by William Shakespeare (1589)

The Faerie Queen by Edmund Spencer (1590)

Discourses on the Heroic Poem by Tasso (1594)

Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes (1614)

L'Adone by Marino (1623)

Paradise Lost; Paradise Regained by Milton (1667)

Le Lutrin by Boileau (1674)

Order and Disorder by Lucy Hutchinson (1679)

Mac Flecknoe; Aenid English translation by Dryden (1682)

The Dispensary bu Samuel Garth (1699)

The Battle of the Books; A Tale of a Tub by Swift (1704)

The Rape of the Lock; Illiad and Odyssey English translations; Dunciad by Pope (1714)

The Vanity of Human Wishes by Samuel Johnson (1749)

Scribleriad by Richard Owen Cambridge (1751)

Faust by Goethe (1772)

The Triumphs of Temper; Essay on Epic Poetry by William Hayley (1782)

The Task by William Cowper (1785)

Joan of Arc; Thalaba the Destroyer; Madoc; The Curse of Kehama by Southey (1796)

The Prelude; The Execution by Wordsworth (1799)

Jerusalem by Blake (1804)

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Coleridge (1817)

Laon and Cythna; Peter Bell the Third; Prometheus Unbound by Shelley (1817)

Hyperion: A Fragment; The Fall of Hyperion by Keats (1818)

Don Juan by Byron (1819)

The Kalevala by Elias Lonnrot (1835)

Sohrah and Rustum by Matthew Arnold (1853)

Hiawatha by Longfellow (1855)

Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1855)

Idylls of the King by Lord Alfred Tennyson (1859)

Cantos by Ezra Pound (1917)

The Wasteland by T.S. Eliot (1922)

Ulysses by James Joyce (1922)

The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings/The Silmarillion etc. by J.R.R. Tolkien (1937)

Gormenghast by Mervyn Peake (1946)

The White Goddess by Robert Graves (1948)

Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell (1949)

The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis (1950)

Anathemata by David Jones (1952)

Dune by Frank Herbert (1965)

The Dark Is Rising Sequence by Susan Cooper (1965)

Briggflatts by Basil Bunting (1965)

Earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin (1968)

Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey (1968)

The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny (1970)

The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice (1976)

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson (1977)

The Magic of Xanth by Piers Anthony (1977)

Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolf (1980)

The Dark Tower by Stephen King (1982)

Belgariad and Mellorean by David Eddings (1982)

The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley (1982)

Shannara by Terry Brooks (1982)

The Riftwar Cycle by Raymond E. Feist (1982)

Discworld by Terry Pratchett (1983)

Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock (1984)

Neuromancer by William Gibson (1984)

The Black Company (1984)

Redwall by Brian Jaques (1986)

Valdemar by Mercedes Lackey (1987)

Memory, Sorrow, Thorn by Tad Williams (1988)

Sandman by Neil Gaimon (1989)

The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan (1990)

Queen of Angels by Greg Bear (1990)

Newford by Charles de Lint (1990)

Omeros by Derek Walcott (1990)

The Saga of Recluse by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (1991)

The Witcher by Andrzej Sapkowski (1993)

Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind (1994)

Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb (1995)

His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman (1995)

Old Kingdom by Garth Nix (1995)

A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin (1996)

Animorphs by H.A. Applegate (1996)

Crown of Stars by Kate Elliott (1997)

Harry Potter by J.K. Rowling (1997)

The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steve Erickson (1999)

The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher (2000)

The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini (2002)

Prince of Nothing by R. Scott Bakker (2003)

Bartimaeus by Jonathan Stroud (2003)

The Gentlemen Bastard Sequence by Scott Lynch (2004)

Twilight by Stephanie Meyer (2005)

Percy Jackson and the Olympians by Rick Riordan (2005)

Temeraire by Naomi Novik (2006)

The First Law by Joe Abercrombie (2006)

Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson (2006)

The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss (2007)

Shadows of the Apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky (2008)

The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins (2008)

Graceling by Kristin Cashore (2008)

Riyria Revelations by Michael J. Sullivan (2008)

Night Angel by Brent Weeks (2008)

The Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett (2008)

Inheritance by N.K. Jemisin (2010)

The Lightbringer by Brent Weeks (2010)

The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson (2010)

The Expanse by James S.A. Corey (2011)

The Broken Empire by Mark Lawrence (2011)

The Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer (2012)

Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Maas (2012)

Grishaverse by Leigh Bardugo (2012)

The Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron (2012)

Worm by Wildbow (2013)

The Powder Mage by Brian McClellan (2013)

The Broken Earth by N.K. Jemisin (2015)

Shards of Heaven by Michael Livingston (2015)

The Green Bone Saga by Fonda Lee (2017)

The Band Series by Nicholas Eames (2017)

Winternight by Katherine Arden (2017)

The Folk of the Air by Holly Black (2018)

The Founders by Robert Jackson Bennett (2018)

The Locked Tomb by Tamsyn Muir (2019)

Grave of Empires by Sam Sykes (2019)

Djeliya by Juni Ba (2021)

[homerstroystory]

the Dionysiaca of Nonnus of Panopolis, the longest surviving ancient Mediterranean poem receives its first ever English translation!

[lgbtplushistory]

390 CE

Dionysiaca by Nonnus of Panopolis is the last known piece of Western literature to celebrate homosexual passion for nearly 1,000 years. The main subject is the life of Dionysus, his expedition to India, and return to the west.

[epic-sorcerer]

Merlin would have been so much more gay if the writers stayed true to Celtic paganism(the historicaly accurate “old religion”)

Trigger warnings:

Main triggers: talk of sex, homophobia, religion, Catholics, colonization, anti Celtic, murder

Mention triggers: rape and sexual assault, creepy men, gore, insest, toxic masculinity

I will mark the sections with quick triggers with 2 red lines. Below the second one is when the trigger is gone.

_____________

I am posting this on December 21st, as today is the Winter Solstice, a Celtic Pagan holiday. It will be posted at 3:33 PM, as 3 is a sacred number among the celts. Because of the special occasion, I will be speaking on a subject that was important to many of them—homosexuality.

Some stuff first for introductions. Yes, yes, I know this may be boring but it helps with context. This religion didn’t have a name other than Celtic pagan or Celtic religion bc it seams everyone there believed it. This was until the Roman Empire concurred what is now the UK. Since Rome had adopted Christianity—more specifically, Roman Catholocism—they only allowed that religion to be practiced.

———(genocide)——

Once England was concurred in 43 A.D, the pagans were killed and their religion was surpressed. Not much is known about the pagans for this reason. However, we do know somethings from what the Romans have written down. Although, it is biased, as they believed the celts to be barbaric and also didn’t wright much about women.

——gore ——

First, we know they preformed human sacrifice on kings when the kingdom suffered along with some other groups.This could be from bad ruling to really bad weather. These kings died horribly, as they seamed to be stabbed multiple times, had thier nipples cut off, and left to die in a bog.

They had thier nipples cut off because the subjects would suck on the kings’ nipples to demonstrate submission, so cutting them off would fully dethrone the king.

—————

Now, background over. Here’s where it gets good.

Nipple sucking between too lovers or ‘special friends’ was seen as a preclemation of love, physical intimacy, and sexual expression. This, like other types of sex, was seen as something beutiful and sacred. Often, male soldiers would have these ‘special friend’ relationships with many fellow soldiers in groups. The Romans even observed that Celtic men seamed to prefer other males for love/sexual interest over women.

Nipple sucking was mostly described was between two men. Although, we must recognize that women may have been left out of written history. I would also like to point out, this may prove that aromantic people existed in that time, as these ‘special friends’ had sex and were not mentioned to be romantically involved.

The celts were known for their sex positivity and even eroticism because they loved it so much.This is one of the reasons why the pagans and the Chatholics clashed so badly.

Before the Romans really took over, Saint Patrick—yes, the Saint Patrick—started to try to convert the celts into Roman catholosim. He was appalled at the wide acceptance of polyamory(women were aloud to marry however many people they wanted) and homosexual relationships/marriages. Not to mention the celts could have sex with any one at any time as long as it is consensual.

——(Tw creepy men)——

That means no waiting til marriage, unless a Celtic chose to do so. Although we should take into consideration a statement made by Diodorus Siculus, an antient Greek historian, that “the young men will offer themselves to strangers and are insulted if the offer is refused.” In his series Bibliotheca historica. This could mean that either creepy men were comman place, or that homosexuality was so comman and done with everyone, it was wierd to be rejected.

————

Getting back to the Roman Catholics, the book Sextus Empiricus is published in the early 3th century and states,

“...amongst the Persians it is the habit to indulge in intercourse with males, but amongst the Romans it is forbidden by law to do so...”

It also goes on to say,

“...amongst us sodomy is regarded as shameful or rather illegal, but by the Germanic they say, it is not looked on as shameful but as a customary thing.”

For clarification, Germany is apart of Celtic society. So what we can infer is a very serious culture shock in terms of Rome and other places. During Emporor Serverus Alexander’s reign, openly homosexuals were deported.

In early 4th century, Emporor Constaine—the first Christian Roman Emperor—destroyed an Egyptian temple populated exclusively by femme, gay, pagan, priests. The Emproror then went on to eradicate all of them. However in 337 A.D., 3 emperors ruled, including Constantius II and Constans I, who where both in mlm relationships.

An odd thing these emporors went on to do was criminalize male bottoming during mlw sex 342 A.D.. 8 years later, Emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius ferther punished this act by killing these men by Public burning at the stake.

———(Tw toxic masculinity)———

I believe this was because masculinity was very important and a man acting in a more feminine role was seen as emasculating and humiliating. For the average man, he had to fight and defend his masculinity. Not doing so was seen as a personal failure.

——————

The last ever known peice of European literature containing a positive representation of homosexuality for 1,000 years was a large epic poem by Nonnus of Panopolis. It was titled Dionysiaca and the first part was published in 390 A.D., the last in 405 A.D..

So yeah, The catholics were very selective in terms of sex. One can only imagine how badly the celts and Catholics clashed. Back to 435 A. D., Saint Patrick began to preach Catholism and around that time wrote in his Confessio. He recounted that he found a boat to get out of Ireland and refused to suck on the nipples of those aboard.

“And on the same day that I arrived, the ship was setting out from the place, and I said that I had the wherewithal to sail with them; and the steersman was displeased and replied in anger, sharply: ‘By no means attempt to go with us.’ Hearing this I left them to go to the hut where I was staying, and on the way I began to pray, and before the prayer was finished I heard one of them shouting loudly after me: ‘Come quickly because the men are calling you.’ And immediately I went back to them and they started to say to me: ‘Come, because we are admitting you out of good faith; make friendship with us in any way you wish.’ (And so, on that day, I refused to suck the breasts of these men from fear of God, but nevertheless I had hopes that they would come to faith in Jesus Christ, because they were barbarians.) And for this I continued with them, and forthwith we put to sea.”

—(Tw very mild rape/sex assault mention—

So, as you can see, Celtic and Catholic ways clashed horribly. Something seen as good and sacred to the indigenous tribes was seen as barbaric and sinful to Saint Patrick. Also, don’t worry, the celts did not press the issue ferther, or else this would be a very different story.

—————

This only snowballed into a much bigger issue much later in medival English sexuality. They were VERY picky on what sex was aloud. Missionary was the only aloud position and it has to be the least pleasurable as possible. Making out and masturbation wasn’t aloud either, as that was also seen as a sin. Here’s a low Rez chart to help figure out when sex was okay.

While we are discussing such a queer topic, I would like to bring up the topic of Anam Cara, or Soul Friends in Antient Celtic culture. A Soul Friend was a word used to describe a Philosophy in which one is not completely whole without thier “other half.” This person can be in a platonic, romantic, or familiar kind of love. Really, all it boils down to is that 2 poeple were made to be together since the beginning of time and will be at thier strongest when they become companions.

There is a Celtic legend that seams to depict a mlm Anam Cara relationship. It tells the story of Cuchulainn and Ferdiad, two male worriors who have known and loved each other a long time. But they must kill each other in a duel. Both are vary reluctant, as at least one of them will have to die.

————(Tw insest)———

Before I go on, it is important to mention there is a lot of debate on wether or not this is homosexual. Mainly because they were foster brothers, but since insest wasn’t as much of a taboo, I do not think this would be as much of a set back as it is today.

—————

They had tried to kill each other each day for 3 days, but they ended up hugging each other and kissing 3 times. On the fourth day, however, Cuchulainn killed Ferdiad. The man then holds Ferdiad in his arms and sings peoms for a long time. Here are some:

“We were heart-companions once,

We were comrades in the woods,

We were men that shared a bed

When we slept the heavy sleep

After hard and weary fights.

Into many lands, so strange,

And side by side we sallied forth

And we ranged the woodlands through,When with Scathach we learned arms!”

Heart companions seams to be similar or the same as soul freind, because of how it’s used. Although sleeping in the same bed isn’t inherently sexual, Cuchulainn then goes on to complement Ferdiad’s physical features.

“Dear to me thy noble blush,

Dear thy comely, perfect form;

Dear thine eye, blue-grey and clear,

Dear thy wisdom and thy speech”

Although this is deeply sweet I would also like to caution that Chuhulainn may have simply been commenting on his healthiness, but blush is an odd word considering he is now dead.

Two male lovers, one dead in the other’s arms. Soul friends, maybe. Reminds me of a certain show..I don’t know I just can’t put my finger on it...

I would also like to point out that because Celtics did not pressure others to have sex, and that a soul friend can be any type of love, I do think that an asexual or someone on that spectrum could live without judgment.Unfortunately, I could not find much about intersex, androgynous, or trans people. Perhaps if I find anything in the future and will make a new post.

In conclusion, if Merlin were more historicaly accurate, he definitely would have been queer. Especially because he is said to be magic itself, it would make sense for him to be the personification of Celtic values. That may include homosexuality, because as previously stated, Celtic men really liked other men.

I’m excited to see what will come of this post, seeing as not a lot of people in the fandom seem to know this. More fanfiction? More fanart? It would probably inspire a lot of creators. So, if you do make something because of this post, please notify me in the notes, an ask, an @ or something. Basically anything but a PM. I would be happy to see/read the creation.

Sources:

Sexuality and love in Celtic society:

Same Sex Celts

Druid Thoughts: of Sex and Druids

Anam Cara, what’s a soul mate?

Sexuality in Ancient Ireland

The Celts, Women, and Sex

LGBT history

Sexuality and love in Medival Society:

Getting down and medival: the sex lives of the Middle Ages

Sex in the Middle Ages

Here’s What Sex Was Like In Medieval Times. It’ll Make You Feel Glad You Weren’t Born Back Then!

General Celtic Society:

Who Were the Celts

Celtic Religion and Belieifs

Saint Patrick

17 Things You Probably Didnt know about Saint Patrick

Confession of Saint Patrick

Cuchulainn and Ferdiad

Cuchulainn and Ferdiad, Gay Lovers?

The Combat of Ferdiad and Cuchulain

Insest in Antient Celtic Society

Ancient Irish elite practiced incest, new genetic data from Neolithic tomb shows

Homosexuality in the Roman Empire

Timeline of LGBT history

Timeline of LGBT history in the United Kingdom

[coolancientstuff]

Tapestry with Dionysiac busts in roundels

Egypt, 5th-7th century AD

Leafy tendrils frame twelve (originally fifteen) busts of satyrs, maenads, and others who attended the wine god Dionysos during his thiasoi, or revels. His tutor, Silenus is the bald man at the lower right. Herakles appears as the bearded man at upper left. The two figures with horns in the second row may be Pan and one of his sons who, according to Nonnus of Panopolis, assisted Dionysos in his conquest of India. The women are amongst the maenads who attended him. These mythological figures are typical of the continuity of interest in classical learning and culture in the Byzantine world, including Egypt.

[theancientgeekoroman]

List of Extant Epics & Lost Epics

In an effort to try and find all the epics I may possibly have to read and the lost/fragmentary epics I will probably compile into one place eventually for my final paper for my Ancient Historiography course, here is what I think is all the epics (with titles, not necessarily authors whose titles we don’t know; anonymous/cycle poems are going to be listed without authors) that I am going to have to include/mention. Incomplete works are staying with extant because it’s not the author’s fault they died in the middle of writing it (my worst fear as a writer tbh).

If any Classicists who follow me want to point out any I missed, I would absolutely appreciate it because I am so tired already.  And our second class is Thursday.

Okay, so!

Extant Works:

Homer: 

Iliad

Odyssey 

Hesiod

Works and Days

Theogony

Shield of Heracles

Apollonius of Rhodes

Argonautica

Lucretius:

De rerum natura (does this count under epic? It was listed on the list I found and I can see why but also...is it tho)

Vergil:

Georgics (?)

Aeneid

Ovid:

Metamorphoses (?)

Lucan:

Pharsalia / De Bello Civili   

Gaius Valerius Flaccus:

Argonautica

Silius Italicus: 

Punica

Publius Papinius Statius: 

Thebaid

Achilleid (incomplete)

Faltonia Betitia Proba:

Cento Vergilianus de laudibus Christi

Quintus Smyrnaeus (Quintus of Smyrna): 

Posthomerica

Claudian: 

De raptu Proserpinae (incomplete)

Argonautica Orphica (Unknown Author)

Nonnus of Panopolis: 

Dionysiaca (incomplete?)

Lost and Fragmentary Epics:

Adrianus: 

Alexandriad (one-line fragment)

Aeschylus of Alexandria: 

Amphitryon (fragment)

Messeniaca

Alexander Aetolus: 

Fisherman 

Kirka or Krika

Helena (fragments)

Antimachus of Colophon: 

Thebais

Choerilus of Samos: 

Perseis or Persika

Cicero

de Consulatu suo

Ennius: 

Annales

The Epic Cycle: 

Cypria

Aethiopis

the so-called Little Iliad

Iliupersis

Nostoi

Telegony

Eumelus of Corinth: 

Titanomachy

Euphorion of Chalcis: 

Thrax

Gaius Helvius Cinna:

Zmyrna

Hesiod: 

Catalogue of Women

Aegimius (may have been authored by Cercops of Miletus)

Astronomia (is this an epic?)

Descent of Perithous

Idaean Dactyls (is this an epic?)

Megala Erga

Megalai Ehoiai

Melampodia

Wedding of Ceyx

Homer: 

Cercopes

Iullus Antonius:

Diomedia

Moero/Myro: 

Mnemosyne

Gnaeus Naevius

Bellum Punicum

Nestor of Laranda: 

Ilias leipogrammatos

Metamorphoses 

(uncertain if considered epics)

Nicander of Colophon: 

Heteroeumena

Peisander of Laranda: 

Heroikai Theogamiai

Phaedimus of Bisanthe: 

Heracleia

Pigres of Halicarnassus: 

Margites

Batrachomyomachia 

(above works also attributed to Homer)

Rhianus: 

Messeniaca (most celebrated)

Achaica

Eliaca

Heracleia

Thessalica

The Theban Cycle: 

Oedipodea

Thebaid

Epigoni

Alcmeonis

I think that’s all of them. Again, if you could clarify (if you know) whether some of these would be considered epics, please let me know. Some of them I’m unsure of, as noted. Some obviously could be epics but I haven’t sat down to analyze for sure which of them are except for the ones I’ve read since I was a wee undergrad. Most of these were new to me a couple days ago. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post! 

[brauronia]

‘—But Zeus? / Sitting in silence, no cloud to call his own, and twiddling / His thunderless thumbs, completely deprived of his natural noise.’

Nonnus of Panopolis, Dionysiaca, book 1 (trans. Douglass Parker).

[bibliotecarubenbonifaz]

Nonnus of Panopolis (fifth century CE) composed two poems once thought to be incompatible: the Dionysiaca, a mythological long epic with a marked interest in astrology, the occult, the paradox and not least the beauty of the female body, and a pious and sublime Paraphrase of the Gospel of St John. Little is known about the man, to whom sundry identities have been attached. The longer work has been misrepresented as a degenerate poem or as a mythological handbook. The Christian poem has been neglected or undervalued. Yet, Nonnus accomplished an ambitious plan, in two parts, aiming at representing world-history. This volume consists mainly of the Proceedings of the First International Conference on Nonnus held in Rethymno, Crete in May 2011. With twentyfour essays, an international team of specialists place Nonnus firmly in his time's context. After an authoritative Introduction by Pierre Chuvin, chapters on Nonnus and the literary past, the visual arts, Late Antique paideia, Christianity and his immediate and long-range afterlife (to modern times) offer a wide-ranging and innovative insight into the man and his world. The volume moves on beyond stereotypes to inaugurate a new era of research for Nonnus and Late Antique poetics on the whole.

[nysus-temple]

I think there was a myth of Dionysus

At the direction of Hera, the infant Zagreus/Dionysus was torn to pieces, cooked, and eaten by the evil Titans. But his heart was saved by Athena, and he (now Dionysus) was resurrected by Zeus through Semele. Zeus struck the Titans with lightning, and they were consumed by fire.

Like i know there are many myths of him but damn that was brutal and Dionysus had it rough from the start 😅

Yes, that myth is described in the Dionysias by Nonnus of Panopolis and the Orphic Hymns. And some other anonymous Orphic texts. Zagreus is Dionysus' Orphic name, kind of. There's a very little tiny evidence that Zagreus could have been a different god instead of just another name for Dionysus, but honestly, it's not as strong.

In the Dionysias, Nonnus' expands the Orphic story by saying that Zagreus was meant to dethrone Zeus, that he was capable of even using his lightning bolts, and of course, Hera did not like this occuring.

Hera distracted the infant Zagreus with toys and the titans (or, as other say, the giants) murdered him. Zagreus turned into different animals in a way to escape, but he was still dismembered and eaten by them. I wouldn't call them evil, though, they kind of... Just obeyed orders.

Some say it was Apollo, others Athena, the one who was able to save his heart and resurrect him. Some say Zeus put him on his leg directly (which would make Semele kind of irrelevant) and others, such as Nonnus, say that Zeus gave the heart to Semele.

I talk a bit about that myth here.

And yes, Dionysus didn't have a normal childhood (or, well, no god did, I suppose). Regardless of which myths we read, even if we throw away all of his reincarnation shenanigans, he had it rough.

He was never with Persephone nor Semele, his moms. But at least he spends some time in the Underworld with the first one, it's better than nothing. Semele, on the other hand... Yeah, I don't think her soul would recognize him in Hades but, those are just my thoughts.

[nysus-temple]

What about Hermes and Dionysus? 👀

DEPENDS if you're asking about sources OR my ideas. Because i can talk for HOURS about both of those. Hermes and Dionysus are just soooo......... They mean so much to me it's stupid at this point.

I'll stick with the sources for now and summarize them the best i can, and then some ideas that i hope i can summarize too; so i talk about both since you didn't specify and i would hate to leave you without an exact answer nskdnfk

Out of all the gods, when Dionysus arrives to Olympus (post-reincarnation), it's Hermes the one who is trusted the most to take care of him. He saved him from Hera's wrath a couple of times. Like Apollonius of Rhodes mentions in the Argonautica, he saved him from FIRE. FROM FLAMES.

Our good Nonnus of Panopolis also talks about this episode ! Saying Hermes traveled around with him for a while, and during that time he also asked several groups of nymphs to educate him. He even played and spend time with him alone, i think we all know this sculpture of Praxiteles, one of the few Greek originals that have survived to this day:

AND when Dionysus was a young man, not an infant anymore, Hermes left him with Rhea, who educated him in relation with his powers, like for example, being incapable of getting drunk.

Not only that, but there's also the fact that we all know, of Hermes being the psychopomp of Hades. I've always liked to imagine it's him, by Zeus' order, who took Dionysus to Olympus when he was Zagreus, after Persephone gave birth to him. Since in the Orphic Hymns, Persephone takes care of him AFTER he's reincarnated, not when she gives birth to him.

Nonnus of Panopolis also specifies in the end of his Dionysiaca that Dionysus sits next to Hermes at Olympus <3

Remember the Minyades shenanigans Dionysus had? Out of ALL the gods, it was Hermes who took pity on them, it was Hermes who was with him-

I think it's really funny that, like, Hermes was there when Ariadne and Dionysus had children, like, look:

What is he doing there lmao. "Hey do you two need a second dad-"

AND NOW, BEHOLD, MY STUFF ! Some random concepts and ideas i had of them, go down if you wanna read them or skip if you were here for the sources only.

i've always felt that Hermes has a hard time showing Dionysus how he feels about him. Why? Because he's really good with words, but not gestures; and Dionysus only finds appreciation though gestures, not words. That's due to his way of thinking that everyone is always liying to him, how no one told him about Persephone and Semele, about Gaia's feelings towards him, about how many people were going to treat him... Bad. No one advised him that. They educated him, took care of him and... Lied to him. He died. He was killed. And yet, no one had the courage to tell him. So Hermes thinks it's... Wrong, to tell him that he loves him. That he always cared about him. That he always sacrificed anything he had for him. That didn't matter how many times he reincarnated, for him, he was still Dionysus, his Dionysus. But the other just, well, doesn't feel anything when hearing that. So used to actors and mysteries, that he's incapable of believing him, even if he wanted to.

"Ariadne hugs me. Mother hugs me. Artemis hugs me. You hug me. What's the difference between you all?" that gesture just doesn't reach him.

i just love how Hermes is... Always looking at Dionysus when they are represented together? How he's always next to him? How he's always like... Feeling bad for the way Dionysus ends up being due to their own mistakes? He feels everyone should have told him the truth about his origins, but the rest insisted in not letting him know.

I KNOW I KNOW there are no actual heights for the gods and they all look the same BUT BUT in human form, Dionysus is taller than Hermes and LOVES to pick him up because it bothers Hermes, since, well, when they were younger it was the other way around, Dionysus was the small one... How the turn tables.

They're both gods and they both had to do things that we might not like to see from a human point of view, but i love how they execute them so... Differently. Hermes seems to try to be more, like, peaceful, when ending someone's life; yet Dionysus will give them the most horrorific and violent punishment a mortal can recieve. Perhaps that's why Hermes took pity on the Minyades.

Hermes LOVES dropping hints towards the rest, because they always laugh and get them, but Dionysus can't !!! You need to tell him JUST what you wanna say, he does NOT get hints !! And that's hard for Hermes because he doesn't express "i love you" by saying it directly. He's SCREWED.

i've always adored the fact that Dionysus is a god so focused with fertility and insanity and whatever that he forgets how sexual themes actually work and. and he. doesn't get that kind of jokes either. You know:

Dionysus: Hey, your legs look great in those clothes. Hermes: You should see me without them. Dionysus: Hermes: Dionysus, confused: Why would you take off your legs??? Hermes, snorting: That's not—

After his own travel around Greece, Dionysus changed a bit. He was always a little different compared to the rest, but due to the resentment he holds now, he doesn't like being asked about what he does much. And Hermes knows that, so whenever someone does it he inmediatly goes "NOPE NOPE NOPE CLOSE YOUR MOUTH I APPRECIATE THAT YOU'RE ALIVE"

i love to imagine Hermes jumping behind Dionysus' back when he arrives back at Olympus, and that startles him because doesn't matter how many times Hermes does it, he NEVER remembers it.

Hermes is very clingy due to Apollo educating him in order to be like that, but Dionysus isn't. Not that he dislikes it, just as i explained, he has a hard time understanding what you truly mean OKAY he's had a rough life OKAY he was born three times OKAY

Hermes has rams as very important animals in his whole symbolisms and all that AND i associate Dionysus with rams. i know he was more associated with bulls and goats but RAM HORNS are a metaphor for a LEADER and that's how i view Dionysus. So anyways i just think he would hide between Hermes' rams, but Hermes doesn't get startled because he already knows he does this lmao

"Really, Hermes, what do you even see in that guy" Hermes: he has so many issues and he has me enamored with that

HEAR. HEAR ME. One of the few ways Dionysus actually learns to connect with the other is by DANCING. A very important part from his festivals. And he dances in a different way depending on who is the other. And for Hermes. He's. Elegant, graceful, decorous... He really feels like a LIBERATOR for Hermes. Like. Someone who isn't connected to his duties, because even the twins, who are precious to him, remind him of that somehow. But Dionysus doesn't and everytime they dance Hermes feels so good. Dionysus is just. Chilling. He knows what he's doing for once.

Persephone is Dionysus' mom, and after being separated from him for a long time, she has some fear for the rest of the gods getting near him. You know. Just like Demeter. Persephone was kidnapped from her AND Dionysus was taken away from Persephone as well. So Persephone doesn't, you know, trust Hermes that much. She loves and appreciates everything he does, she doesn't hate him, she can't, he's very dear to her ( just like Hades for Demeter ) BUT she has that resentment feeling tormenting her everytime she sees them together. uuggghhh

After Ariadne dies Hermes has even a harder time to connect with Dionysus. He doesn't know how he feels after that. Due to having various mortals around him (Semele, Ariadne, and others perhaps) die since, they're mortals, he doesn't know how to stay near him without making Dionysus feel he's taking advantage of him. That hurts him a lot, because those aren't his intentions. But he also wished that he learned that, he needs to learn the consequences of getting attached to mortals. Consequences Dionysus never accepts.

Dionysus can act very distant with the rest, BUT he always ends up being gentle with Hermes. He will hold his hands with care, lean on him carefully.

Hermes: [Talks a lot]. Dionysus: [Listens].

Hermes is a master at lying but HAH you can't lie to Dionysus. He's very, VERY good at reading people's minds. Which is even worse for Hermes since almost NO ONE can read Dionysus' thoughts.

HNNNNNNN I'M SO SORRY THAT'S SO MUCH......... If you've read this far ilysm with my entire being ty for listening to my ramblings. Dionysus and Hermes make me sick. In a good way. Biting the air again.

[nysus-temple]

The drama of using Pseudo-Apollodorus as a source.

* heavy breathing * Okay. I can do this.

So, i've always been very... Conflicted, when using the famous Bibliotheca (Βιβλιοθήκη) as a source. It's not wrong, it's actually... Complicated.

You know those "Terms and Conditions" that no one reads before clicking "accept"? This unknown human is pretty much the same thing. This work, the Bibliotheca, is one of the most used ones when talking about Greek Mythology, from perhaps the I-II Centuries a. D. The work is, in fact, a very long set of myths. A lot of known ones such as the Medusa one are there.

"But the work is in Greek, Nysus" Many later-on works were in Greek. In Rome it was used a lot of times before they started to think that they should write in their native language (latin) too. And since this is from the I / II a. D., it could have been a Roman author, or someone else, not a Greek one, writing it.

Was he Greek? No.

Was he Roman? No.

What was he, then? No one.

We have NOTHING about who this author was. Where was he born or what did he do. Not even back in those times they knew who they were, which is insane. He's anonymous.

Is it wrong to use him as a source? No, it's not ! But you need to pay a lot of attention to the text before spreading what is written on it.

You know this dude, Nonnus of Panopolis, who I use a lot when talking about Dionysus. Do we have more information about him? Not really, he's almost the same as the Pseudo-Apollodorus. But we know his name, and where was he born. And that he was from the V a. D. "That's even later Nysus, why do you use him as a source, then?" well, the myths he talks about already existed, that's why. He just compiled them all together. I just use him as that, a quick-pick. I look for more info about the myths he talks about in the Dionysiaca before using him as a source, If I don't find more evidence than him, then I just don't trust it. Like two love afairs regarding Dionysus that he mentions, I have no other source for them, so i choose to ignore their existence until someone gives me something about them.

Pseudo-Apollodorus has the same thing. And even worse, we don't even know his actual name. Pseudo (ψεῦδο) means false, fake, or other similar words. This is were "pseudonym" (false name) comes from, you see? He's basically called "False-Apollodorus". Since he has been mistaken for CENTURIES with Apollodorus of Rhodes and Apollodorus of Athens.

So, as I said earlier, is it wrong to use the Bibliotheca as a source? No. But *please*, look for more realiable sources before, and use the Bibliotheca as a narrative compilation of those other sources, just as I do with the Dionysiaca.

It's safer, more than anything. We're living... And, have always lived, a moment of misinformation regarding Greek Mythology. It's been centuries and Greece has been used as a playground for way too much time. So taking your time before assuming anything regarding its mythology is the best you can do, coming from a foreigner.