#platonic makorra i will always love you

[k8lynjoy]

Controversial LOK opinion, but Mako >>>>> Bolin

Mako gets so much hate for a love triangle he didn't even start (and all the blame, even though Korra and Asami were the ones actively pursuing him) while Bolin was out here repeatedly kissing a woman who kept telling him no.

[lunarblue21]

I was just mulling over Manny/Diego (mango)  versus Sid/Diego (siego)  in terms of how people tend to view the pairings, and since I just love Ice Age so much my face was blushing from the intensity of my feelings (this happens A LOT WITH me when I think about Ice Age!) and I came to this realisation about the love (which, I must say, is purely platonic, but regardless... if one looks at it from a shipping viewpoint) I notice the love between Manny and Diego is a much quieter love yet it is still visible, because it originates from sacrifice, a willingness to pay anything at the cost of another, and it just sings faithfulness. 

siego, on the other hand, is more attractive to people shippers, who, in this fandom show themselves to be quite obtuse when it comes to subtext, since it toys with tropes shippers are familiar with, though I don't see it at all since I think canon - from the original movie even so far as continental drift - leans more in favour of mango. However, I personally think that for siego, the shipping is more popular because of the largely BST-y interactions between Diego and Sid, and people just loooove to jump on that when it comes to shipping. (see: makorra)  

Anyway, mango is the pairing (if I shipped slash and if there is one slash ship I love, it’s Mango though my wont is to write them bromantically) that would appeal more to me, since Manny and Diego don't even need to say anything to each other, but their bond is crystal clear. Their love for each other - since love should truly be synonymous with selflessness - is always front and centre. 

okay, leave me to die in my platonic mango feels. 

Oh, and the mentioned fic in the tags is called “A Spark” and comes highly recommended by me! :) You can find it on ff.net. 

[thethiefandtheairbender]

I eventually helped Korra defeat Zaheer and save the airbenders. And we did it as friends. Korra showed me the importance of putting others before myself, and whenever I think of her, she continues to inspire me.

[kirbyspits]

A lot of Makorra shippers only moved on because they’re afraid of being called homophobic for not shipping korrasami. I LITERALLY saw someone on Instagram yesterday call a makorra shipper homophobic just for saying korrasami came out of nowhere. Also, Korrasami shippers LOVE to bring up the "popping bottles" backlash to make fun of makorra shippers. I left the tlok fandom in 2014 bc it was so toxic as a teenager, but now i’m 23. I’m no longer afraid of shipping something i always loved.

Ah, yes, I realized I didn’t address the fandom's toxicity in the last ask, but I’ve spoken about it before. I don't talk too much about the past because I was at the edge of the fandom back in 2014/2015. I was aware of fights, but the discussions I saw were moreso on bi-erasure. I saw one post saying it was wrong to ship Makorra. I remember being really confused about why Makorra was actually problematic, but I didn’t appreciate being told who I can ship the only dark-skinned woman protagonist on a major television network with. Why are you forcing me to ignore Mako and Korra’s relationship? Book 1 is practically about Mako and Korra, all other characters be damned. Me preferring the story of one pairing and a popular romance trope, second chances, is not wrong, and no one would know how I view the LGBT+ community based on who I ship in one show.

I ended up leaving the community because I was disappointed with season 4 in general. When Korra was released on Netflix, I figured it was time to rewatch the series again (plus, I’ve been binging all my favorite romance anime). So imagine my shock when I created a new Tumblr and Twitter account to rant and rave about TLOK, and I saw nothing but hate and name-calling in the Makorra tags. I saw people casually throwing around the word “homophobic,” and one person said people who don’t like Korrasami are just misogynistic. 

I just wanted pretty pictures, and people are out here psychoanalyzing shippers! So, I dug through some blogs and to feel more grounded with this fandom I didn’t recognize. After reading through their commentaries and experiences, I actually became more upset at Bryke than the teenagers/children who comment on Makorra posts saying how much better Korrasami is or accuse Makorra shippers of being homophobic. 

Yes, I truly believe these comments are mostly coming from people in their late teens and younger, at least in 2020. I can’t speak on 2014/2015, but since we were younger, the early 20s/late teens, I wonder if our age group was also the loudest. Don’t get me wrong, adults can be horrible people and can get really nasty. However, every time I look up the rudest commenters' profiles, they were teens. When one Korrasami shipper wrote “screw Makorra” on my AMV, I figured I’d have some fun trolling them until I clicked on their profile and saw a child. Needless to say, I ignored them and reflected on how parents are allowing their babies on TikTok while my parents freaked out at the idea of showing my picture on FB growing up. 

*I’m not still mad about that*

Also, while it doesn’t give anyone an excuse to make such a strong accusation, part of me, as a straight person, feels like I can’t get too upset because I also become very aware of my privilege. The space I’m in is a majority of young LGBT+ fans (at least on Twitter where I’ve seen the most toxicity). Some people see TLOK as their safe space and imply why should there be Makorra shippers when they have all these other cis/het shows they can engage with. It doesn’t work like that, of course. TLOK doesn’t only feature Bi characters. They’re POC/Indigenous, women, and Korra has dark skin. That’s a lot of marginalized communities. Makorra/TLOK is my comfort show, not because she’s with a man, but because of the reasons I just listed. Also shipping Korra with Mako doesn’t mean she’s no longer bi. She’d still be attracted to women.

Here’s who I am upset with tho, Bryke. Mostly Bryan. While Makorra shippers called out Korrasami shippers for cyberbullying, the focus seemed to be on Bryan for making it seem like there was something wrong with them for not finding Korrasami’s narrative satisfying. It was especially sad to read bloggers who identified as being part of the LGTB+ community saying Bryan’s hetero-lens dismissed their experience and then having to defend/proving themselves to anonymous messengers. 

Fans saw it as a betrayal. They saw it as the go-head for the rude Korrasami shippers to harass Makorra artists because they “didn’t watch the show correctly.” When the creator, the person you admire, also puts the blame on you, that kind of pain is on another level.

Korrasami shippers played a huge role in kicking Makorra shippers out of the fandom, but we can’t underestimate how much Bryan’s statement is a slap in the face. He used his characters and social justice as a shield for reasonable criticism. Just because we say a story is bad and Asami is grossly underwritten doesn’t mean that we’re against the idea of Korra and Asami being a couple. 

Of course, I’ve seen some very problematic statements from Makorra shippers. After all, homophobia is real. However, aside from the actual bigots, people have no issue with Korrasami. They just wanted a stronger connection between the girls. Many people seem to think Makorra shippers were looking for more romance, but we know we couldn't expect that. We can expect more screentime, musical cues, and more emotional support, which most people can see as platonic, but be romantic if you really want to. Mako’s interactions in book 4 can be seen as platonic, but all of us Makorra shippers saw it to be romantic.

Popping bottles! I completely missed that joke in 2014 and I discovered it this year. I agree it’s pretty annoying, but I become a troll and say I’m popping bottles for my Makorra moments. I don’t get any engagement, but I don’t seem to lose followers for it. Maybe popping bottles represents “straight-baiting?” I don’t get it why it’s so funny after all this time, but we’re Makorra shippers. We’re the joke 🙄

Anyways, to wrap up, lately, there seems to be a bit of a shift on Twitter. When I first created an account. I stayed in my little corner live-tweeting about TLOK and Makorra. I had to stop looking at the Makorra tag because it was so negative. Now, I’m seeing people admit they’re cute, and then saying they’re platonic soulmates. I’ll take it, although, as one commenter said, “that’s boring!” 

Someone led a Makorra Week back in October, and it was really nice! I have feeling people speaking up on the name-calling and reminding people that we’re talking about 2D characters helped. We just want to be left alone and enjoy the scenes we have in the show, art, and fanfiction. 

Keep shipping who you want! Don’t let any stranger shame you for your shipping preferences, especially in fiction! I’m so happy you feel more comfortable shipping these two dorks! You’re not alone! I’ve been a Makorra shipper since 2012, and while I find Korrasami cute (I love Korra, and I love Asami), Makorra is my OTP. I really like them, and I think they were meant for each other.

[heavensenthearty]

Number 6 for the salty ask game.

Hi, Bouncy!! 👋🏽🤗 Thanks for the ask! 💖

6. Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?

Mmmmmm... I hate very few things, and I don't know if mild dislike counts, but I used to be pretty "... meh 😒" when it came to Makorra in TLOK, but I was like that about the whole show, not the characters or the dynamic between them 🤷🏽‍♀️

I mean, I know I have said TLOK had some trouble giving characters depth, but in the very early stages of Book 1, Makorra seemed kind of promising because I have always liked ships like that. Belligerent sexual tension, banter, different upbringings, drama, I'm even one of the few people that don't mind love triangles; but then it became a love square (a rhombus? 🤔) and Book 2 happened, and they make it seem like Korra was a selfish brat, and Mako was a womanizer, and Asami was a plot device who was cheated/dumped again — (is it cheating if your boyfriend's ex-girlfriend kisses him in front of you because she lost the memory of their breakup, but he doesn't tell her about that break up either?) — and... ugh! 😫

I felt so sorry for Mako, he's not a bad guy. And they put him to live under his desk to top? Geez, give him a break!

All relationships and the treatment of the characters in TLOK put me so off that I couldn't get invested in any of them. Even now I like the idea of Korrasami, not the canon build-up for the ship. But then... one day I was wandering through Tumblr and I came across anti-Korrasami meta written by bisexual fans, one thing led to the other and I stumbled across Makorra meta. They pointed out all the things that made me intrigued about the ship before everything went downhill, and they explained how their relationship, while strictly platonic, had a very nice development towards the end of the show. I didn't always see it that way, and the more I read, there were more little things that gave away the bond between Korra and Mako, and I liked it, and that last Mako line in the finale "I'll always be here for you" and Korra's happy teary eyes always gets me. Besides, I was annoyed that everybody refused to acknowledge Korra and Asami as bisexual.

After all of that I am... I don't think you will see me writing anything for them, TLOK left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't think I can engage in anything other than the aesthetic, but maybe I'll come around to make Makorra, Korrasami, and Makorrasami art one day ☺️

Salty asks!

[invisible-pink-toast]

oh ask game for atla please!

Thank you!

Fandom ask game

Favourite character: Zuko! Honestly I love all the main characters, but between his character, character arc and general determination/awkwardness/heart he’s always gonna be my fave. Plus I was 16 when I first watched the show and could relate to a lot of the 16 year old angst jsd;lfkhsd;fh

Least favourite character: Everyone’s so well written, so even when you don’t like a character - you’re probably not supposed to or they’re still interesting. I’ll go with Ozai - abusive dad, dictator, war crimes, attempted genocide, etc. plus while he’s a terrifying villain, he’s not as developed or complex as a lot of the other characters. Mark Hamill smashes it with the voice acting though

brOTP: the whole gaang!!! Top tier found family right there! I’ve also recently come to love Aang and Azula! He could help her during her healing/redemption, and I think they could both balance each other out as well as play off each other’s chaotic energies!

OTP: I’m not a huge shipper with this show, I like the friendships/found family dynamics best. I like the ships in the show, I like most of the ships in fanon too, but I don’t love any of them, especially in comparison to how much I love the platonic relationships. I’ll say Kataang or Sukka for in the show (very sweet) and Mailee for fanon. 

OT3: don’t really have one for atla - but Azula, Ty Lee and Mai definitely had the potential. Post-series Suki, Ty Lee and Mai too. 

NOTP: Zutara asjfl;ksahdf;askfdhs;df can’t stand it. I literally LOVE Katara and Zuko’s journey and friendship and their relationship so much. I think they’d be a terrible couple (they would have the same temperment as Makorra) 

Favourite Storyline: damn. I don’t know if I can choose. Faves are: The Storm, The Blue Spirit, The Blind Bandit, Zuko Alone, The Chase, The Headband, Sokka’s Master and.... everything post Day of Black Sun jsdlfkhds;lfkhals;dfhas;dlfkha the show’s too good

Least favourite storyline: APPA’S LOST DAYS!! I can’t watch it!!! Good writing, hurts too much. I watched it once when I first watched the series, and again when I watched the series with my siblings, and that’s it. Never again. 

what I wish had happened but didn’t: Azula redemption arc!!! Or at least some kind of glimmer of hope for her future. I know they planned an arc for her if there was ever a book 4, but that didn’t happen. But they could’ve at least given her one in the comics...

what happened that I wish hadn’t: As awesome as Katara standing up to Pakku was, and I was super glad she got to learn waterbending, I wish his sexism and traditionalism had been explored more and challenged more by Katara’s skills then just finding the necklace. I understand it gave him a realisation, but it felt like that story was wrapped up too quickly. He at least should have apologised to Katara and Aang. 

[ljf613]

For the ship rating: korrasami/makorra/masami

Alright, I’ve been relatively quiet  about this love triangle up until now, but y’all seem to be appreciating the blunt honesty I’ve been using for the rest of these asks, so I figure I may as well be frank. 

Love triangles are not a trope I particularly care for, and this one was really handled poorly by the narrative, on so many levels. I don’t like it. 

Now that that’s out of the way, let’s get into each of the individual ships we’re dealing with here. (Rather than doing them in the order they were asked in, I think I’m going to go in order from least-disliked to most-loathed.) 

Makorra: C+ 

I binged this whole show over the course of about a week or two, and there were plenty of things I knew about it beforehand-- namely, that Mako and Korra were going to date for a while, but she was eventually going to dump him and get together with Asami. 

Keeping all of that in mind, I came into LOK warning myself not to get attached to this ship. 

And for the first season that was really easy. I spent most of the time wondering why Korra was crushing on Mako instead of Bolin. Not because I shipped Borra (I didn’t), but because I was honestly so tired of the “girl falls for bad boy/brooding loner instead of the sweet guy who clearly adores her” category of stories. 

I wasn’t too torn up about the way season two handled their relationship. This was the season I actually started liking Mako (who is now probably my favorite character), and I honestly felt kind of bad for how he kept getting caught on the short end of the stick. 

Seasons three and four are where I really started enjoying their interactions. Their commitment to maintaining their friendship, and the way they stood by each other, was really sweet and inspiring. 

All in all, they were able to form a great friendship, which could have been a foundation for a strong relationship if the show had chosen to take it that direction, but I’m not the slightest bit upset or disappointed that it didn’t. 

Masami: D- 

I should clarify that I... don’t particularly care for Asami. Not to say that I hate, or even dislike her-- I don’t! But the narrative did not do a very good job of handling her character, and she comes off as more of a Mary Sue than anything else. She’s smart, she’s super-talented, she’s freaking gorgeous-- but that’s all she is. She doesn’t have any flaws, or even very much in the way of character development. She’s just.... there. 

And Masami was a big part of that. Season one Asami really seemed like she was just there to get in the way of Makorra, and season two didn’t help matters very much. 

Mako and Asami don’t seem to have much in common, they don’t even seem to be good friends, and by the end of the show the only thing they have tying them together is Korra. 

I honestly can’t picture them making it work as a couple for very long. But, as always, that’s just my opinion. 

Korrasami: E- 

I went into this show knowing that Korrasami was going to be endgame. I put on my shipping goggles, ready for the romantic tension, the ship teasing, the cute flirting..... 

And you know what I got? None of that. I literally finished the show wondering “did they actually get together? Because that final scene could be read as completely platonic.” 

(I really enjoyed Korra and Asami’s friendship, especially in books two and three-- but that was all I saw.) 

I saw a post one time that basically summed up the problem (can’t find it now)-- Korra could have hooked up with anyone in those last few minutes, and it would have made zero difference to the story. 

(Sure, I get wanting representation, but the relationship should still make sense, ya know? Some kind of build-up?) 

(Think about it this way: if they hadn’t both been girls, if Asami had been a boy instead, or worse, Korra had, would anyone like it as much, or would it just feel like a cheap “hero gets the girl”/Strangled by the Red String subplot?) 

Now, none of that means much. I’ve shipped things with less basis before, and even if I wasn’t especially into it, I might have been able to see the appeal well enough to give it an E+ or D- rating. 

Except. 

Except that, while I may not have been part of the LOK fandom for very long, I’ve done enough digging around to get some vague idea of what it was like in its heyday. 

And the picture I’m getting is.... not very pretty. 

Take everything I said about (certain) Zukka shippers. Imagine that it’s for a show that is not nearly as well-done as ATLA. Keep in mind that it was not old yet enough to have a super-large fanbase. Realize that people are not quite as attached to this story as some others they like, and weren’t going to bother investing as much emotional energy if all they were going to get for it was toxicity and hate. 

.....And suddenly you understand why the Makorra shippers are still afraid to poke their heads out from wherever they’ve been hiding for the last six years. 

This behavior is insulting and obnoxious, and I don’t like it. At all. You are entitled to ship whatever you want. But sending hate to someone just because they want the “wrong” pair of fictional characters to kiss is cruel. 

“No ship, or any aspect of a fictional universe, is important enough to treat another real life human being badly.”

[hayleysayshay]

D, L, M, N for the fandom asks

Thanks Anon!

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t (again: be nice)

Realising I’ve reblogged this ask game before and answered this one, but Borra-- Bolin and Korra just seem like good friends. Basami as well-- Bolin and Asami just seem like brother and sister, so that’s something i like even less than Bolin and Korra. I like Bolin’s relationships with these characters but romantically I just can’t get my head around them.

L - Say something genuinely nice about a character who isn’t one of your faves (chars you’re neutral on are fair game, as are chars you dislike)

Kuvira is super hot, I will give you that. Like I mostly just prefer her when she is just a badass dictator instead of... I’ll stop, this is meant to be nice.

M - Say something genuinely nice about a ship that you don’t ship (or its shippers, or anything related to you)

So, I don’t like ship Makorra in canon verse stories, but repressed dork who pretends to be cool Mako x very extroverted chaotic Korra is very appealing in modern AUs.

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice)

1) I’d love more platonic Mako and Korra, Mako and Asami stuff! 

2) Everyone know I’m always soft for good angst about Mako and Bolin’s backstories.

3).... Makorrasami? Basically, the best way to end love triangles are threesomes, lets be honest.

FANDOM MEME ASKS

[maneaterwithtail]

One of my first submissions

however..Korrasami ship war stuff.

Not a fan myself but….I want to encourage more submissions and at the least this is showing lots of effort and points of reference to wide fandom discussion and their feelings.

—–

korrasami was aforced ship there was no actual build up for it korrasami shippers like to use the car scene or blush ( when korra blushes at compliments she blushed at bolins compliment ) and there was actual evidence and chemistry for makorra in contrast to korrasami. in b3 and b4 there was actual chemistry  and we got to see mako talk about korra the person while asami talked about korra the avatar. or how we actually got  the camera zoom in and music swell at mako and korras hugh to highlight importance kXa shippers bring up asami bbeing with korra at b3 ending claiming that we would see it if asami was a man but in reality no we wouldnt. (not to mention while she smiled with her dad , the air babies and bolin suggestion of pen pals she didnt smile at them) heck the break up scene in b2 finale even hinted at them still having feelings and getting back together with the I will always love you line. not to mention that both korra and mako over came the flaws which led to their breakup  which wasnt due to a lack of compatabiltiy but due to certain flaws like  korra expecting an echo chamber from mako basically mako being so afraid of conflict that he disappoints everyone his tendency to avoid conflict  and I am sickened by the demonization of mako claiming that it was just that he ends single for he made a couple mistakes in the relationship department in book 1 and they claim he was a creators pet or gary stu. which is bs makorra was handled well (people like to claim it was only a couple wekks when it was months there was a noticeable change of seasons

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/146055648351

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/122071981927/i-take-comfort-in-the-fact-that-although-korra

http://zoetic-aerography.tumblr.com/post/138417305243/korra-was-undecided-about-what-to-do-about-mako

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/post/150196235205/you-love-battle-couples-that-means-you-love

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/post/150197542245/reyshepkorra-replied-to-your-post-you-love

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/151521486788/lucisfenrir-noctis-is-very-weird-when-it-comes-to#notes

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/124974796098/structural-shortcomings-of-the-shipping-variety

http://makobend.tumblr.com/post/116620716280/i-hate-mako-because-he-does-remind-me-of-an-ex

http://redheadjcb.tumblr.com/post/134574174309/reasons-why-asami-isnt-my-favorite-character-and

“

TV creators’ job isn’t to just do whatever their audience wants, though.

What the fans want isn’t always what’s best for the show. Remember this train wreck:

Korrasami was an extremely popular pairing during the show’s first season. They took advantage of this and made it canon with no real build up and just pasted it onto the very end of the show.

“

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/105947039308/bryankonietzko-korrasami-is-canon-you-can

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/119960030921/robert-submitted-korrasami-devolpment-imeline#notes

http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/119960030921/robert-submitted-korrasami-devolpment-imeline#notes

https://magiesheartlove.tumblr.com/post/113897307625/why-makorra-and-not-korrasami?is_related_post=1#notes

http://archer-bro.tumblr.com/post/160877420151/reblogingblog-archer-bro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLk77yoyvg

“. All the “subtext” they said they saw clearly existed only in their delusions, as proven by the aforementioned facts. And like Appabend said, the subtext was so subtle it might have well not just existed. The “evidence” all just seemed like what platonic friends would have done. There was not even a single concrete moment that you could find that crossed over the romantic line and tied all the other moments together, an aspect all well-written subtle romances have. The circumstances show that the fans simply wanted to ship them because they were two girls, and it didn’t have anything to do with their characters. I dislike the idea of pandering/giving the satisfaction and vindication to these fans who ship for such superficial/shallow reasons. They had no basis for their reasoning other than “but muh lesbian pairing” and just got lucky in the end because MD and BK were the type of people who liked to pander to their audience and virtue-signal about how progressive they were, emphasized by how much they milked it afterwards in that tumblr post and everything else they’ve done about it since. In the end, my friend changed her mind and completely disowned the ship and fandom because she realized that it was all just pandering (which surprised me because I didn’t ask her to do that). I also hate how pretentious and over-the-top it was at the end with all of the background visuals and making it the very last thing you remember of the series even though it was focused on mostly other things. PS Sorry for the long comment, I type a lot:)    …. In this case, the slash shippers would be using a straw man because we don’t have a problem with the same-sex relationship itself. It was how it was executed in terms of writing quality and context within the story. They’re not asking for same treatment, they’re asking for special treatment and we know that because the creators admitted their intent on doing it because it was a same-sex relationship to please their fans, are clearly glorifying it, shoving it into our faces, and virtue-signaling about how progressive they are. It’s 100% being politicized. They wouldn’t do any of those things if it was just a straight relationship. Heck, Korra ended up with Mako after S1 and you can see the clear difference between that and KA on how that was treated by creators and fans alike. In terms of hints, I stated that the hints themselves were too subtle to prove they were intentional, and one of the ways people can tell if it’s going romance is that there is usually at least be a early single moment in which it clearly goes over the romantic line to tie it all together, like smiling and blushing while looking away or getting embarrassed by being pointed out how close you are to that person, etc. And if they were bi, they would have shown it in general, not just with each other. “ http://wuuthradical.tumblr.com/post/163111623958/autistic-2-d-wuuthradical-buffallura

https://g00doldboy.tumblr.com/post/163111027317/is-this-it

http://wuuthradical.tumblr.com/post/162964426138/what-really-gets-me-about-korrasami-is-how-it

http://celticpyro.tumblr.com/post/164869535184/firelordderpy-aggravatedvincevaughn

http://snowembrace.tumblr.com/post/166247501865/so-anon-meant-korrasami-option-i-remember-the

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/post/148337966795/the-authors-are-dead-drikei-i-just-fucking-hate

I am personally annoyed at how bryke try to act like korra and asami were friends since b1 when

their friendship started at b3. which is something that they brought up in b3 commentary ( and check out other fantastic-nonsense posts because they made alot ofposts criticizing korrasami and support of makorra

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/tagged/makorra

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/post/169571636785/about-mako-going-with-korra-to-finish-her-recovery

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/tagged/anti%20korrasami

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/tagged/korrasami

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/tagged/lok-fanwank

http://fantastic-nonsense.tumblr.com/tagged/makorra-defense-squad

——–

Now personally I think Korrasami is one of those mixed blessings.  Yeah kids show went there but its as sudden and shallow as existing hetero relationships.  I DO think the build up was there but its unsatisfying because, like any anime, its not there much post confession and its more teases.

This is especially, for me, because I REALLY didn’t like the character of Asami or get everyone’s deal with her. She seemed to exist to be Best Girl and… that it. My biggest disappointment was the closing of her arc with the death of her father and then, surprise, another love plot.  

Overall though I can’t devote much dislike for the relationship as a whole so much as a connected but not causative (Gabrielle and Janet did have some decent chemistry and there were possibilities) phenomenon of “the men suck so GO Muh Lesbians” which so underlies my experience with the idea I can understand OTHERS attributing the change as “pandering” 

However, ultimately, I’m just over it.  For some its meaningful even if not all that.  And considering into Fangbone AND Sailor Moon when I know there is more challenging or at least advanced if not better fare?  I should just accept it.

I am not anti- Korrasami so much as against anti-Mako (and Makorra) and really its a simpler but more nested problem as I think people latched onto Asami as one of the characters who… lets say retained her potential untainted for many fans.  But for me she was more of a waste than Mako ended up for me by the time he became a cop and not just Edward Cullen if he was from a K-drama.  S2 fixed him so much for me but thats also when the hatchet was put into play and then S3 started and…it hurt how I could see they were handling the ex-boyfriend (and way WAY WAY buttering up this Suddenly Sisterhood of Korra and Asami

“ as a whole she’s missing something. She isn’t ‘moe’ but she reminds me of the sketching and depth of such a style of character. A collection of traits to interest [the audience] as to full person even as she is interesting but feels thin. “

-me 

[kingofthewilderwest]

If I can add to the discussion, while I do think the media likes to glorify romantic relationships, it's the fandoms that make them seem like the most important thing. In every fandom I've encountered, relationships are always romantic and are the most talked about subject even if the relationship(s) are not important in the actual canon media. I'm not saying they can't have fun with it, but fans seems to have a sort of (for a lack of a better word) fetish for romantic relationships.

This discussion really has become nicely nuanced because of contributing perspectives. You bring up another good element of how romance is treated: fandom culture.

I do believe that media and fandom culture feed each other. It’s impossible to avoid sexual themes in movies and even advertising, even for things that should have nothing to do with romantic relationships. This sort of permeation of romance-as-norm, romance-as-always is going to enter the minds of people who interact with fandom material. 

It’s very common in film to show characters following their newly-met love interest and prioritizing them over their well-developed, long-term friendships… for the love to be portrayed as something that is of a greater and more important focus. Frozen (which admittedly I’ve only seen once) even takes a shot at the idea of romance being central… by making a joke about how a character shouldn’t fall in love with someone and go with them in a day. The joke wouldn’t make us smirk if something wasn’t going on in our stories. Media’s portrayal of romance is skewed and the characters bend themselves backwards to follow romance first and foremost. It’s not surprising that the emphasis on romance and the devaluation of platonic bonds enters its way into the thinking of fans who have been consuming contemporary media material. Even if that specific fandom doesn’t focus on romance, the overarching trend of society for romance-first is going to inform the minds of fans and influence how they interact.

In movies, books, and television series, it’s extremely common to have stories focusing on romantic triangles and disputes… somewhat akin to some ship wars I have seen in fandom interactions. Romantic tension in the media world can mirror romantic preference tensions in fandom communities.

But yes, fandom communities can demonstrate a strong proclivity toward romantic relationships. This cultural proclivity and care for shipping is noticeable because of how emotional and contentious individuals can get about shipping… it has, in some ways, turned into shipping politics. Fandom participants sometimes turn combative if members prefer different ships… some dramatic events with Kataang/Zutara and Korrasami/Makorra are coming to mind for me. (I’m not going to get started on my experiences with Undertale’s shipping politics). It’s even amazingly common to see incestual ships (Fontcest, Wincest)… or ships pairing one individual with themselves (Onecest). Lots of terminology has arisen in internet English because shipping is so popular… words like “shipping,” “smut,” “OTP,” “OT3,” and “NOTP.” It’s even to note that linguistic paradigms have unconsciously developed and then observed by linguists for how we create new pairing names… because we do it so much. There is almost guaranteed going to be a ship between any two random characters, just because that’s how fandom works. So yes, fandom and shipping is something that is often very popular.

Again, romance isn’t wrong. Again, going ship-happy in a fandom isn’t wrong. Romance is a good experience. Fandom shipping can be hoards of fun. Please, go have fun! It’s not a bad thing to focus on the elements of a story that we like the most. I admit I myself, when talking with my fellow friends who love Mass Effect, tend to get into some rather excited, long-winded screaming sessions about who we’re romancing in our playthroughs and why. But I do agree that fandom culture in many pockets does elevate romantic considerations, too… as it is a reflection of what society overarchingly does as well.

[yourfriendlele]

long ask

I saw the post you made ( and first of all since I havent watched harley quinn show so I cant comment on the ship ( though I find it ridiculous that you seem to be implying people who are anti korrasami would automatically be anti bb  ( there were people who are anti korrasami but ship bb ) 

and second of all this is what annoys me about ship wars ( where it can get to the point where one of the characters who “get in the way ” of the ship is demonized ) and with ship wars with one being m/f and other being same sex someone will claim homophobia if you ship say black sun over bb and claim that you would ship say bb if one of them was a dude which is baseless  when its a matter of liking the writing or liking the interactions between characters more etc

not to mention the argument  when people point out how a ship say korrasami was forced and had no buildup   certain people go  but there are thousands of straight couples why cant you let us have this one when first of all goodwriting is more important then representation )  korrasami didnt have buildup it was thrown it at the last minute bryke only went to network if they could do at after thinking about how they didnt include rep when they were close to finishing the season finale ( of course they tried to cover their asses  by claiming het lenses when no  the ship  just isnt there it had no buildup or relationship development there had been more buildup / interactions with makorra then korrasami in b4 ( not to mention they fixed their problems with handling  conflict  by b4 which caused problems in their relationship ) compare all asami got in remembrances was going of course we need you youre the avatar (korras problem  at the start was only seeing herself as the avatar and not as person ) mako got a speech about what korra meant to him 

and on bb there is/was no buildup or romantic development to bb v1-v6

( there are people who are debating  on whether rooserteeth made it canon or not and  ( if the v7 stuff is supposed to imply that its forced as hell ) 

  there was no bb moments  in v6 that were  inherently romantic 

 people just try to claim these moments were romantic when they really werent and claim there was no other explanation for tihs like blake holding yangs hand when it trembled as she was facing adam which was a show of Im here for you which yang reciprocated on the plane ( and they try to equate bb on the plane to renora on the plane when no its not besides the fact that renora had volumes of buildup  were alone in that scene  the sun came up and nora did the lean head on shoulders thing) and renora were alone together no one stepped  in contrast to bb who were surrounded and friends with ruby talking to blake ( not to mention trying to claim saying that the bb moments in  v6 were platonic is like saying nora going thats my man was platonic is bs 

Nora was always flagrant about her feelings for Ren. There’s no making “my man” platonic and the hand hold was followed by head on shoulders much like Pyrrha did with Jaune before it. The BB “handhold” is followed up by Ruby comforting Blake as well.

One of the most aggravating things I’ve been seeing in regards to this ship nonsense is people using Adam’s lines (“I will destroy everything you love, starting with her”/“Does Blake make all of her classmates fight for her?”/“What does she even see in you?” ) as evidence that Blake loves Yang over Sun. Oh yes, because the unstable psychopath with a history of being a bad judge of character, especially with Blake, TOTALLY understands how and why she values her friends!

( plus adam  is a racist he hates humans a faunus supremacist  and see a human and faunus teaming up and being friends as disgusting adam barely knew yang he never saw them interact before so those moments would have been the first times he saw blake with those people ( unless he saw  the team fights  and given his surprise about yangs semblance 

(not to mention adam trying to kill her parents a reference to the I will destroy everything you love  which includes friends and family) 

( in contrast black sun has had  romantic development and teases  ( with them showing mutual romantic attraction  v1 scene  where they first met   and the way it was a shot and the angelic choir  the v2 and v3 ( where sun flirted with blake  and blake blushed  and v4 and v5 which had the meat  )etc since v1 and even in v6 there was a hint of reunion  the departure didnt sink.  blacksun  has had too much development  to just throw it away 

the name of representation would just be bad writing the attempts ot justify bad writing with the gay rep excuse is ridiculous and throwing the homophobia card etc around makes a joke of real homophobia same sex ships arent immune to criticism that is equality )  

https://rwbyconversations.tumblr.com/post/179603888501/it-was-never-about-that-or-why-sun-went-to

https://eight-of-pentacles.tumblr.com/post/185944273916

I am really annoyed with how 

certain bb shippers go to accusation to dismiss criticism focuses on their presumption of their sexuality as the issue rather than how its written.   A good love story is determine by how it’s written, NOT by the sexuality of the characters.

“LGBT are historically marginalized and therefore it’s nice they get their main character ship for once.” First of all plenty of media have lgbt main characters now. It’s not groundbreaking. But more importantly, none of that means the relationship is well done. That’s just filling a personal quota. This is a dumb argument. It’s like saying retcon sexualities and ethnicities of existing characters cause we’re too lazy to put the effort in making new ones and you all just get the leftover scraps.

commanderkurama answered:

Yea I mean….its all fine and dandy wanting representation but much the same as they wouldn’t want their first open lgbt characters as villains or killed off, you’d think they’d want their canon couples to be well developed. Most of what they get so hype over about BB is headcanon or trynna reach to connect it to better developed het ships to leech off of their development to make up for the lack of actual substance it has.  because I want to have faith in crwby I will say that v7  was just platonic. ( though more cynical people say they threw blacksun out because they wanted to earn points and get a bit more attention  by having a same sex w/w ship ( which is annoying they could havedone the same thing with freezerburn  weiss and yang werent being teased with anyone and it doesnt throw out any prior relationship teases/development

HEY MAYBE DON’T SEND ME SHIT ABOUT BS BEING BETTER THAN BB etc etc...

Listen, since i’ve posted my comic i’ve gotten plenty of messages saying i’m just not listening to criticism and bb/korrassami/harlivy etc is actually bad and i would see it if i actually cared about good writing bla bla bla.

 And i’ve answered some of them, but now im just tired, bc i came to the conclusion that i’m not gonna convice anyone who thinks they’re above homophobia and heteronormativity (bc they’re too woke for that i guess) that, tho i listened to what they had to say, their arguments just aren’t convincing to me.

So yeah, you think bs (or whatever het ship) is absolutely superior and better written than bb (or whatever wlw ship), bc bb is retcon/forced/pandering/just the fandom reaching etc etc, good for you dude, live your life, write your essay and post it on tumblr.

Just could ya’ll please leave me alone now???

Now, if after reading the comic, you’re very curious about what i think (and not what you assumed i think), here are some links to my other responses:

1. BB is going against Monty’s plan

2. Double standarts i, personally, see with same sex couples

3. Refusing to see bb interactions as romantic

4. Yes it is okay not to like wlw ships (no it’s not alway homophobia, but even if i think you sound like a homophobe when you talk about a same sex ship, i can’t really do anything about it, so yep it is always okay not to like a ship, no one is stopping you) + problems i have with each ship mentioned in the comic

If you still, legitimatelly, wanna talk to me about writing (and by all means, please do, i like talking about writing), how about you start with “hello, how are you? My name is .....” and we can go from there?

[kirbyspits]

Am i the only one that wasn't that much of a Korrasami fan? Pretty much I always thought Korra being with Mako made much more sense

Nope! Makorra is my favorite ship of all time (Zutara is my second-fav)! There’s also a lot of fans who ship them as platonic soulmates, while shipping Korrasami romantically. I don't engage that much with the Korrasami tags, but I’ll check in every now and then for pretty art. I love Asami, but she's too underwritten for me to be invested in her relationships. Korra's character also changed too much for me to want to continue her story in comic form (my no-nonsense, chin-grabbing, hot-headed teen is gone 😭). Now that I'm back in the fandom, I'm a bit more open to reading the comics, but Book 4 pretty much wraps up everything I was invested in. 

Sadly, it looks like all the avid Makorra artists/writers on Tumblr left the fandom since things got very toxic when the season finale first aired. It was particularly hurtful to have Bryan place any confusion, surprise, and criticism back on the viewer by saying they weren't open-minded enough:

If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

- From Bryan K’s post about Korrasami being cannon

That statement ironically includes any LGBT+ fans who questioned the ending.

Bryke did the bare minimum with downplaying Mako's feelings/reducing his screen time and developing Asami as one of the most important people in Korra’s life. Bryan’s statement becomes particularly frustrating when rewatching TLOK and trying to have an open mind, but all you get are musical cues or closeups of Mako. At some point, you have to accept there’s either something wrong with you as the viewer for not seeing Korrasami coming or deeming Bryke bad writers. I deem them bad writers.* Bryke at least acknowledged they didn’t plan as well as they could have.

As a writer, I'm disappointed Bryke didn't develop a stronger bond between Korra and Asami. I needed way more scenes showing how close the girls became to be satisfied as an unbiased viewer. The season finales for Books 3 & 4 handled this well, but Mako had episode after episode after episode with strong emotional ties to Korra. Their friendship, which seemed to be on a path of rekindling their relationship, easily overshadows Asami’s growing bond with Korra. If you like Mako, it’s impossible to ignore his interactions with Korra. 

As a Makorra shipper, I'm obviously happy and wouldn't want it any other way!

*it’s not just because of Book 4. Book 3 is probably the only season that was well written. Book 1 is my favorite, but there are many flaws, especially with the romance that I happily ignore.