#proship safe on principle

[diabolocracy]

Also, super scribbly mess. I have no patience these days

Ink Sans belongs to Comyet

[smash-or-pass-hear-me-out]

Are you tired of playing smash or pass with your friends, and they pull a "hear me out vro" and send something like Elastigirl? We've all heard that one before, trust me Tired of playing with the group, and it's barely fun? Do you want a place where you're really able to get weird? Well you do now, here you can find any HMO or SoP you can think of, and those you can't! send in a character (doesn't matter where from, species, or even object), and we'll send it out! For each, format it (roughly) like so: (colors not necessary) "Smash or Pass {Insert character/image}" and we'll make a poll labeled {Smash} or {Pass} "Hear me out, {Insert character/image}-" and we'll make a poll labeled {Heard} or {Silenced}

Submissions are posted on Saturdays, Results on Sundays

Poll results Masterpost Tag/Comment Hall of Fame

IMPORTANT NOTES: please for the love of god, don't attack any submission. this is a game, and holds nothing to the morals of anyone playing we don't mind nsfw, but if you must, please no irl porn, keep it all art/fictional. it's uncomfortable for us, sorry ^additionally, let us know so we can tag it we understand you're unable to send images off anon, so if you'd like to remain hidden and still send in media, feel free to request that and we can send the image by itself! don't worry about sending in something we've already had, we'll just do it again, we don't mind if you don't specify hmo or sop, we will automatically assume it's a sop we have no dni of any kind, and don't wish to disclose any information on ourself for security reasons. feel free to send absolutely anything unless listed, we will not tag fandom names or characters, so for better reach pls list in submission

[kookoofufu]

Conclave 18+ Server: The Last Judgment

Hi all, I’ve started an 18+ and dead dove friendly Conclave server! This proship server is meant to be a judgement free hangout zone for likeminded fans, chill and inclusive, where you can indulge in freaky fantasies (or not) to your heart’s content! Nsfw and dead dove channels are opt-in through roles so you don’t have to access to those parts of the server if you aren’t comfortable with them, I want to make sure everyone has a good time. Plus, there are channels for bouncing ideas around, sharing fics and art, and plenty of space for general discussion/analyses! Feel free to join if this is sounds like your cup of tea 💕 Keep reading to read the rules and find the link to the server!

This server offers a safe place for those who enjoy Conclave to talk about the the film/novel. This server is founded on anti-harassment and "ship and let ship" principles. As long as you aren't harming real people, you are allowed to talk about or create whatever you want, respecting Discord's guidelines. Viva la perverts,

You must be 18+ years old to join this server. If you are found to be underage, you will be banned.,

Any form of hate speech or bigotry will not be tolerated. No racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise hateful comments or actions are allowed towards any members of the server,

Be mindful of the content you consume. If a ship, story, or trope is not your cup of tea, don't drink it! Disagreements are inevitable, but the nature of this server is to support one another, so please be respectful.,

Do not harass any individuals or creations under any circumstances. Do not "call out" anyone, even if they are not in the server,

NSFW works and Dark works are to be posted in their respective categories. NSFW refers to nudity and sex. Dark refers to subjects involving non/dubcon, incest, gore, self-harm, etc. We're all adults here, manage your fandom experience, and do not push NSFW or Dark content onto someone who does not want to see it,

You are encouraged to post fanfiction/fanart, but be sure to do so in the correct channels. When posting fic recs or others’ artwork, be sure to include the link to credit the original artist!,

You are discouraged from screenshotting chats from this server to post on social media. If you do post something, at least censor pfp's and names. We don't want anyone to end up in a call-out thread,

No AI-generated content,

No underage content. Discord does not allow loli/shota, and they "don't tolerate any kind of text or media—real or generated—on our platform that portrays children in a sexual manner." I allow links to ao3 fics but I cannot allow talking about explicit underage content, unless the ages are kept vague

[self-loving-vampire]

For real, the weirdest people are the ones who have such a strong flavor of cognitive dissonance when it comes to sex. I'm actually so confused in general by like, even beyond the people who claim their kinks are morally pure, people (strangely enough, usually marxists) who proclaim they're pro kink, reblog incest kink and cnc and ageplay, but also have a "proship die challenge y'all are pedos" and it's like. What? What on earth? Then there's that overwatch guy who said that women shouldn't get off on "abusive" yaoi because it's homophobic for them to try and claim it and idk tumblr kink spaces are something else lmao

There's a very unflattering yet common sort of hypocrisy around kinks where people don't seem to be basing their opinions on what is acceptable or not on any kind of solid or reasonable principle like "is everyone involved a consenting adult?" but rather something like vague unpopularity and emotional reactions.

So you get people who are extremely ignorant about how their own kinks are "problematic" by the same standards they apply to other people's kinks.

"I get off to pretending to be punished and hit in exactly the same ways many parents abuse their children, but I'm respectable and safe compared to the Real Freaks, who are playing pretend about other scenarios also involving power and control."

Feels like the same old inclination to throw the people who are pretty much the same as you under the bus to present yourself as "one of the good ones".

[hispillowprince]

not to "um akshully..." with my first post on my shiny new blog (that is exactly what i am doing),

but ao3 (and initially tumblr to an extent) is, to its core, a "proship" website. the funny thing about this more recent distinction between pro/antis, the terminology itself and the discourse surrounding it is that it's simply rebranding and packaging topics of censorship within spaces that exist for self expression by and for fans/nerds/outcasts/what have you.

the principle of using a tagging and filtering system to AVOID broader censorship (that more often targets marginalized groups and limits freedom of expression) is a progressive one. censorship that is out of the hands of the community is not. this does NOT mean that everyone should simply subject themselves to content that makes them uncomfortable, or that people shouldn't be held responsible for, you know, basic human decency and respecting boundaries with one another...which is why tagging and filtering systems are set in place for us to have the ability at our disposal without altering the experience for others. what it DOES mean is we know that understanding that distinction between fantasy and reality is often integral to our experience in fandom.

we are not spokespeople. we are not and should not be held to a standard of wholesome, squeaky clean representation in our own free time and space we have simply to have fun and find like-minded people. this isn't the writing room for a bloody disney channel program trying to make The Gays palatable to pearl clutching parents, and frankly, when websites like tumblr, fanfiction sites etc are hit with the banhammer, things tend to only go downhill from there and lose creativity and engagement (including sfw creatives!). censorship has always and will always target those that don't fit the marketing bill, aka unsavory "fans/nerds/outcasts/what have you," whom are often - you guessed it - marginalized people that utilize fandom as an outlet.

whether people use fiction to draw inspiration for their art, process and recontextualize things in their lives (like traumatic events, introspection, humanitarian issues and so on), find community or simply have a good time, it is something that makes the human experience so fascinating. we have always and likely WILL always fantasize, dream and create (and share in those things).

to me, the fundamentals of an anti-harassment or proship stance is not that fiction has NO bearing on people or their experience, but that without the ability to make our own decisions and boundaries for ourselves, we are inhibited from learning, progressing and breaking the barriers of what confines us. this includes - but is not limited to - sexuality and sexual content.

sexuality. sex. infamously a natural form of expression/communication that has been weaponized and stolen from people in a sickeningly long game of "if we can't sell it or use it to manipulate and instill fear into you, then we don't talk about it at all." this game is effective in its continued tired controversy over whether or not people are allowed to discuss icky, gross sex in ways that can sometimes challenge our relationship with it and how we've been socialized to approach it. WHY open discussion about these things is healthy and helps set a precedence for being safe and mindful with it.

how does this tie in with proshipping? it's an alignment of values with censorship in this way. it's symbolic, really. we reclaim power for ourselves, making our queer coded villains and monsters something to play with than to shut us out. giving our little faves toxicity as a treat because we know how harmful it is to navigate a world without anyone to guide us through the steps or understand our own history/ies. or, you know, just be horny and silly online and find people who want to do the same.

anyone who claims they're pro/anti and makes it solely about what they deem okay to harass others with earns them my opinion that they're an asshole. anyone who simply does not want to engage with/discuss something that may or may not be considered problematic or controversial is simply a person. we all have lines we draw for ourselves. much like how someone playing d&d or video games doesn't spawn evil cultists or violent criminals, exploring sexual themes through fiction does not a predator make.

so, on that note - the end, lol. i hope this drabble of not entirely coherent figurative fist shaking at the sky serves you, or doesn't. either way, you know what to do when you don't like something! it's called blocking, babeeey. gold star if you made it to the end of this fat essay lmao

drinking water is really important though fr like it's not just a memefied thing it's-

[bs-cosmicourse]

Welcome to my personal hell

What's up gang this is my dumb lil problematic discourse corner

I'm Cosmos, I'm 20, he/him trans rosboy, boyfriend of @fratellis-pizzeria! Plural, fronters you may see around are below. All using HS names for slight anonymization purposes.

Mods:

Mod Kankri (He/It/Gods)

Mod John (He/Love/Wind)

Mod Dad (He/Him)

Mod Kanaya (Xe/Xim)

Mod Cronus (He/Him)

Mod Sollux (He/It/txt)

I made this blog as my safe haven to interact with discourse and argue without bringing that stuff onto my main blog, but be warned there's no promises I'm gonna take this seriously like ever. I have NPD and a slew of other issues so I'm mainly here to laugh at cold takes and share my two cents on things 🤷‍♂️

To get things out of the way bc I know what can of worms I'm opening already by going right off the bat interacting w/ my boyfriend's blog.

I know nothing about Sparklecare. I wasn't raised on it. But I do not support Kittycorn for getting minors involved in her incest comic.

I identify as antiship on the principle that proship things make me personally uncomfortable. Censorship is bad and I don't advocate for the destruction of art no matter how problematic.

I identify as pro-endo on the principle that you can never know what's going on in someone else's head. The brain is complicated and the hardest part of the body to learn about.

I identify as pro-mogai, aroaces are lgbt, anti-terf, whatever, on the same principle as being pro-endo. You don't know what someone else's head is like.

Anon hate will either be made fun of OR interacted with seriously if I discern there's no bad faith LOL if your anon hate is particularly bad I will print it out and eat it dead serious on this I have a printer and pica don't test me

[diabolocracy]

Shitty pun "envant garde" will not leave my brain and this is the attempt to make it do so

Ink Sans belongs to comyet

[rider-of-the-circular-equine]

If you at any point write “fanfiction” you should be put to death for violating copyright law and therefore the NAP.

[vaspider]

I’m an aroace proshipper. I have trauma relating to kink, specifically bdsm. (Abusive ex partner who pretended it was kink, yadda yadda)

I feel weird when tagging #tw kink because I know to a great part of the queer community and historically it is a significant part of our culture. I don’t shame kink, I am full well aware kink relationships are often the most healthy. I know especially power-dynamic kinks can be a relief and make relationships more healthy.

I am fully aware the principles of safe, sane, consensual should be widely taught and are quite essential as well as the open communication kink necessitates. Which is just one more reason kink relationships are more healthy and honest than your average vanilla relationship.

None of this changes that I personally have trauma-association and may get triggered if I’m concerning myself too much with kink-heavy (specifically power-exchange) subjects.

I also run an education/ activism blog focused on aro/ ace/ apl/ tertiary attraction which I keep mostly seperate from my proship-views but even there I feel guilty for tagging content warnings relating to kink.

I suppose I just want you to tell me it’s alright I keep tagging #tw kink if I reblog memes.

Look.

Some of my triggers are perfectly mundane things. I've asked for people to trigger tag certain bands for me in the past.

You can trigger tag anything, and it's not wrong or a judgment for you to do so. I'm not saying that, like, the Beastie Boys are terrible because hearing them reminds me of one of the worst nights of my life. I'm just saying that... I would like to be able to make the choice on whether or not to engage that content (or would have, back when it was really triggering for me. That night was 20 years ago, and I'm mostly over it now).

You're not a bad person for tagging something, but if it makes you uncomfortable because you feel like it's conveying some sort of judgment call on your part, perhaps you could tag it 'content warning' or 'content notification' instead? Would tagging it 'cw kink' or 'cn kink' make you feel better, and less judgmental? If so, that's a perfectly cromulent alternative. A content warning or content notification could be as simple as 'hey, you might not want to open this on the subway, or if your kids can read it,' and that might remove some of the emotional freight that 'trigger warning' seems to be carrying for you.

[cowboylikedean]

you have talked about being proship before, and i was wanting to ask your take on the current drama in the supernatural fandom? (tl;dr in case your luckier than me and haven't seen it: a popular fic writer got called out for racism, people defended his racism, those people were revealed to be proshippers as well.) also wondering if you think there should be any limits to proshipping? is there anything that IS unacceptable in fiction?

I'm sorry I'm trying really hard to read this charitably. I'm going to respond to this as genuinely as I can, and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not coming to my askbox to accuse me of racism in regards to fandom drama I was not even a part of and have not seen at all in a fandom I'm barely in. If that is your intention and I am wrong to give you the benefit of the doubt, please fuck off. If it's not, read on.

So first of all, no. I try to avoid petty Supernatural fandom arguments.

Second of all, I think it's pretty ridiculous to think there are not racist anti shippers too. Like do you honestly, seriously, in your soul believe that anti shipping is the one fandom space that has no racist people? Really? Seems pretty unlikely to me.

Third, the fact that you posed the question "is there anything that IS unacceptable in fiction" and NOT "is there anything in fiction that DOES define your real life opinions" is the issue here.

Proshippers' argument is not "everything is acceptable in fiction." It is "fiction does not define real life."

I do not believe there is anything that is unacceptable to be portrayed in fiction. It's fiction, this is a safe space away from reality to explore fucked up things that revolt you.

I also do not believe that creating a work of fiction or enjoying a work of fiction that explores fucked up things inherently means or causes anything other than repulsion to the fucked up thing in real life.

The reason I do not believe that there is a causal link (or any strong link at all) is because this has been the topic of study for decades and no one practicing good science has found a solid link between these things. Researchers have been looking for a link (usually funded by politicians and special interest (re: religious) groups) since at least the 1960's (that I know of on a widespread scale). If there was a solid link between fiction and real life, we would know it by now... But there isn't.

There's a reason why when studies get bigger and more widespread and have more variety in data collection and a larger peer review process.... the evidence for a connection between fiction (of any kind - including porn) and real life attitudes and actions decreases. Because the more best practices you employ in your study, the more you lessen the effect of bias, the better the application of science, the less room there is to create a link that doesn't exist.

Video games does not cause mass violence, access to guns and a culture of toxic masculinity does. Porn (including fanfiction) does not cause sexual violence, increased societal sexual shame (which is heightened by the antiship movement and all sexual censorship movements btw), lack of resources for victims, and a rape culture perpetuated by toxic masculinity does.

I am proship because there is no functional difference between the argument that reading about sexual violence will make people think that sexual violence is okay and the argument that reading a fantasy novel will make people believe in witchcraft. The left's book burning for the sake of purity arguments look oddly like the right's book burning for the sake of purity arguments.

And while I'm on that... Let's use a classic piece of literature as an example of this principle. The more militant literary purists on the left have taken aim at The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn many times over the past 10 years for portraying racism and slavery. The literary purists on the right have taken aim at the same book for being anti-racist and anti-slavery.

Now let's circle back to sexual censorship and sexual shame. One of the right's big tenants behind their defense of sexual censorship is that exposure to sexuality in fiction will create and cause sexual attitudes in real life. If that sounds familiar, it's because it's literally word for word the anti-ship argument. So the right's application of this is that stories about queer people will cause queerness to "spread" and will infect the minds of otherwise heterosexuals. In other words, if people are exposed to media about the attraction to the wrong people, they will become attracted to the wrong people. The left's application of this is that stories of pedophilia will cause attraction to to children to "spread" and will infect the minds of otherwise sexually healthy people. In other words, if people are exposed to media bout the attraction to the wrong people, they will become attracted to the wrong people.

So I guess to answer your request for a defense of the proship perspective in the wake of a drama I have no context on, shitty people are shitty people because they are shitty people. Not because they read fanfiction.

[dabistits]

a self-identified proshipper reblogged this post from me in agreement, to which i just wanna hold up a mirror and say: uh, “the overflowing amount of weird fan art” op is referring to is also... made by you all.

this lack of self-awareness makes me want to verbalize something that i’ve alluded to before, but never really fleshed out, which is that this whole “proship” thing is a redux of early 2010s gamergate talking points, just with the misogyny excised (supposedly). all other arguments have already been done to death by misogynist pop culture bros who feared the encroaching wave of feminism and “political correctness,” including the talking points about how female characters in skimpy clothing is “just fiction,” it’s not actually hurting anyone in real life, how video games are just “for fun” and “not meant to be taken seriously,” oh and also the excessive rape and violence against women are just there for the sake of “realism.”

there’s some kind of cognitive dissonance that “proshippers” will make the same arguments while reblogging posts about the misogyny of pop culture media and its fanbase, blissfully oblivious to the fact that they are not exempt from producing an “overflowing amount of weird fanart.” i’ve been thinking for awhile now that this cognitive dissonance is resolved for them through bioessentialism, in terms of gender but also whiteness. some, maybe even many, “proshippers,” as a part of a heavily self-identified “afab” population participating in transformative fandom, view themselves as essentially different from fanboys, and their engagement with any creepy shit (including making weird fanart of schoolboys) as also essentially different from any creepy shit done by fanboys (making weird fanart of schoolgirls).

large swathes of transformative fandom still fundamentally conceive of internet fandom as being split between “amabs” and “afabs.” no matter how much lip service is given to the idea of trans acceptance, i’ve found that many fandom people (regardless of how they identify) are extremely quick to unite around “afab” terminology, discuss “afab experiences” and cite the flawed premise of “female socialization,” in addition to praising fandom for being “a safe space for women to explore their sexuality” (wherein the women are presumed to be at least white and cis). (this is why i’m choosing to use “afab” as the umbrella term here.) i also feel, with anecdotal evidence in support, that tma people tend to be viewed with suspicion and heavily scrutinized, as are poc who openly discuss racism in transformative fandom. none of this is unique to fandom or even “proshippers” tbh, these are symptoms of transmisogyny and whiteness in general, but it certainly concocts into some pretty noxious takes without a single iota of self-awareness.

it boils down to this belief that “afab” desire is inherently exempt from problematization, that it is somehow inherently unimplicated in oppressive forces while cis mens’ desires are. it’s rightly understood that the cishet man who draws panty shots and weird balloon tits is off-putting and degrading for people who are just trying to appreciate female characters. however, “proshippers” are utterly unable to apply this principle to themselves, even when the object of their desire is marginalized through race, transness, age, etc. this inability to recognize one’s own complicity in oppression is endemic in white “afabs,” who imagine their desires and fears to be pure and sacrosanct—even while proclaiming to rep darkness and degeneracy, they stop short of treating that material as something actually “dark,” as in something that’s sensitive and worth treating delicately regardless of the personal desire to clumsily make it sexy or sensationalist. such a thing would entail recognizing their own potential to do harm, to be oppressors, and even outside of fandom that’s never been something they’ve been interested in doing.

[phoenix-is-the-hottest-thing]

To me, Proshippers are why I can't safely view tags of kid chars safely without blacklists on any website, not just twitter. I think there's a reason why Lolicons (pedophiles in the strict definition) associate with Proshippers

I think you're conflating wildly different demographics that sometimes overlap but are not equivalent. I mean, it makes sense right, of course lolicons would rather flock towards people who have a principle of ignoring what they hate instead of harassing others???? They just get blocked/ignored/etc that way.

Also from what you've sent to other people's inbox (assuming you're the one sending warnings about me to others) your issue isn't that I post such content, which I don't, but that I reblog posts "famous" "problematic" people have chimed in on about (people that I've never heard about, that roach person is news to me?? I didn't even reblog from them???). Even if I had said "I'm a proshipper", don't you think you're stretching the legitimacy of your mental association a little too far?

(The rest goes under the cut it got way too long. You've made me write that much so please do read all of it.)

One of my issues with your reasoning is that proshippers aren't all writing or drawing children at all. In fact, very few are, at least that I've seen float by? Claiming that a subset of a group is all of them is not honest, not to mention proshipping by itself, as I understand it, has little to do with being into anything taboo in the first place. It's just about staying in your own lane. Not everything proship is lolicon, there's plenty of other stuff and reducing it to that means you're talking about lolicons, not proshippers. Wrong cause for your woes, and uncomfortably reminiscent of those people claiming all gays are pedophiles. I'm queer so,, very uncomfortable assumption to make anon.

Reading your ask tho, I do getcha. Pixiv in particular has seared my eyeballs, I getcha and I've got my own additional things I cannot handle, which I will not be expanding upon because it's my own damn business and I don't want angry people sending it to me in my inbox. I assume you're the one who's been "warning" people against me, you may be polite now, but you have not shown that you are worthy of trust. Sorry anon but I cannot believe that you will be respectful to me and as such I have to take steps to protect myself instead of being completely open. Will be referred to as [REDACTED] if relevant.

So yes I understand being grossed out or shaken by content you think is disgusting, whether it's a trigger or just distaste, and you'll have to believe me on that.

At least we have our blacklist, so once it's set up, if our content moderation is working properly, we never have to think of it again. Maybe just to add some extra stuff sometimes. That's already pretty damn good? Coz that isn't a given, and it certainly wasn't a thing when I was a child. In the past I just went "oh uh oh yeah I'm losing my marbles about this time to get a hug from mom".

I'm sorry anon, we cannot control what others do, and attempting to do so is a fruitless endeavor because there's always more content we'll find off-putting in some kind of way. Even recently, as an adult, when I voluntarily look up adult content for myself by god I find things that make me mad, grossed me out, etc. Both "problematic" and purely personal taste stuff. I understand the feeling. I get angry. But.

People have a lot of imagination and it's just a part of life. We don't know what their inner life is like, we don't know if they're survivors of the worst thing you can think of or if they're just into game of thrones, and it's not our business. I'd rather block a game of thrones enjoyer than be a jerk to a CSA survivor, and I'm sure you feel the same.

At the end of the day, you say it yourself, we just don't want to see whatever they came up with, we just want to safely browse tags for stuff we enjoy.

I believe blacklisting keywords and tagging stuff properly is the only way we'll be left alone properly, because the internet is not a safe place. It's a public place, and mind control isn't a thing. And it would be bad if it was. The world where nobody posts about anything "wrong" is Big Brother's world and that's not the world I want to live in.

Your feelings of anger are valid, but to me it sounds like you don't want to do anything at all and still see only things you want. Unfortunately we are not entitled to the people around us just not posting what's they're allowed to post. Most we can ask for is warnings so we can fit the website to us rather than the people.

I've left a comment on a fic I hated once, not even a rude one, I tried to be very polite, I was saying something like "hey, this is really out there and maybe this isn't the fandom for you if this is what you're into?" and you know what! Someone else in the comments called me a jerk. And they were completely right. I felt deeply ashamed. That kind of behavior is being a jerk, I loathed that content deeply, I should've just blacklisted it and ended it here. I let my anger get the better of me and I shouldn't have done that. So I deleted the comment and I will never do something like that again.

Your anger is valid but you should be journaling or telling your friends about it, not... whatever sending anons to other people about me is. You will never successfully stop everyone from thinking up fucked up pure fiction, because it is a completely legal thing to do no matter how gross. People will just keep doing it for their own private reasons. They'll even do worse things too. The internet is not safe, and it will never be safe so long as people are free to use it.

You live in a society and you have to adapt to it with the tools you can use, so everyone can have a compromise of a happy, if not a safe place.

Block me, block the stuff you hate, keep blacklisting stuff, do as you like but remember a block should be out of sight, out of mind. If it still actively bothers you (in a "active distress" or a "keep thinking about it" way, not in a "I still think the concept's gross" way) after you've stopped seeing it you probably need to see a therapist. That's not normal.

No matter how much I hate the result, drawing and writing stuff is one step above thought crimes and it should be pretty obvious from the name of my most popular fic that I don't think those are legitimate crimes. If I told people into [REDACTED] "hey it bothers me that you do that" I would just be entitled as hell. It's legal to do. Lawyers are willing to fight pro bono about it on ao3. The horny is even stronger than capitalism and there's nothing we can do to make people stop having weird tastes, sexual or otherwise. This is what it comes down to.

If you have friends comfortable with that, you can talk about it with them when you still come across content you hate. Seek comfort.

I do sincerely wish you happiness and peace anon, it just can't come at the price of everyone else's. The blacklist is the compromise I've accepted, and I don't think you can avoid that so long as you're sharing a space with others. This is fundamentally an unsafe public space we can never hope to control, only moderate with tools and polite labeling.

[olderthannetfic]

(part 1/3) In my previous fandoms, it was common knowledge in my circles that anti stuff is nonsense. But now in my most recent fandoms, it seems like half of all twitter users have "Proship DNI" in their bios. Usually coupled with "no minors" and "no creeps", so it seems like instead of just being broadly anti-kink, these people have a very weird mistaken idea about what most proshippers are like. And there is no proshipper faction in the english speaking fandom.

--

(part 2/3) The only person with a "proshipper safe" message in their tumblr had it there in defense of a ship I have no interest in. No one in this fandom who supports kink, supports privacy, opposes harassment etc just on principle??? And the character I'm fixated on is a villain. In a past fandom when my fav was a villain, we had a fandom enemy we loved to hate, pestering us with dumb reasons why it's bad to like this character. So I thought it was just common sense.

(part 3/3) The funny thing is, with my new fandom and new evil fav, almost everyone sees this character as sympathetic and the antis are no exception. They love to woobify him more than anyone! I suspect that if the fanon consensus was different, and the character had a hatedom declaring him problematic, I'd see more people changing their minds on "is it ok to like problematic things?"

A lot of people who dislike censorship and dumb "everything is problematic" screaming don't call themselves anything. They just think of themselves as normal and reasonable, not a specific faction.

[natsmagi]

proship anon again. I'm sorry if I got a bit heated. I'm very thankful that you are a kind enough human being to say that even despite being vehemently against those types of content, you still don't condone the harassment of people who create it. honestly I'm really glad to hear it.

I think myself and lot of other proshippers who do engage with these things in a completely online space tend to feel like we are constantly in danger because of the current social media client. I personally was "called out" as a pedophile when I was only 17, literally just because I said it wasn't okay to harass people who make dark/problematic content. so like. I'm sure you can sort of see where I'm coming from.

I guess the way I see it is that at the end of the day if an actual, literal pedophile can get their fill of that kind of thing in a way that is entirely fictional and in no way harms real life children, I would prefer that they have that as a substitute to the horrible alternative. I can't claim to understand how that sort of person's mind works but like. idk. I am aware of how insane this sounds I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at here.

anyway I don't want to get into it more, it's tiring for me to talk about, too. I'm really sorry I came at you like that, I'm just kind of like. frustrated that my friends and I who I know would never hurt anyone are getting lumped in with criminals and abusers. it sucks. I don't think there's one entirely right answer. I just wish the whole thing was handled with nuance, and very much to your credit, you do handle the situation with nuance, so thank you.

again, I apologize for bringing this upsetting topic back into your inbox again. I won't send any more messages about it. I hope you have a really nice day <3

oh its totally fine!! thank you for your kind words!!

and yes, i can understand where youre coming from. its a bit unfortunate that this whole debate is handled in such a black and white fashion when theres so many factors at play. like we've been over, people who actively engage on the side of "antis" tend to be teens. often times they know that something is wrong, and as theyre getting older they feel like they need to take more action /against/ what they think is wrong. i sincerely believe alot of it is out of good intent, and that they think theyre doing the right thing, but when youre 14 youre not very likely to have much grasp on the whole picture. you just see something bad and want to put a stop to it. the drive is admirable, but the execution can unfortunately become inhumane

i dont have a solution for any of this. i dont know what the best approach is. but thats why i at least wish to give people room to speak and to genuinely listen to whats on their mind (at least when it comes to fandom discourse and not like. unfiltered bigotry). i feel like genuinely talking things over and explaining ones side is the least we can do if we wish to remain civil and empathetic to one another, because at the end of the day my main principle is just not wanting people to get hurt. thats my core desire

we may disagree, but i hope you have a good day too! and stay safe out there!!

[redwingedwolves]

re: the goldie90 thing she has said that she think JRK stands for women's rights and that people are making her transphobia "bigger than it is". Goldie90 is also apparently pro life according to her recent posts.

Ah... Well, for the JKR thing, I can state that I completely disagree with her views on it. JKR is not a good person and while she herself might think she is for women's rights she's actually not by sheer principle. I'm going to be honest and say that I actually don't really know all that much about any of it. I'm trans myself, yeah, but I do not keep as up to date with all the news in regards to trans issues because, frankly, it's depressing and I'd just rather not.

For the pro-life thing, again, I completely disagree with her opinion, but, I mean... She is entitled to that opinion... Sure, it's a rather awful opinion to have, but I'm going to be completely frank and say there are technically worse opinions to have... :/

I'll make my stances on the subjects clear right here and now, I do not like JKR, she's an awful person with awful views. She openly hates trans women and that cannot be accepted under any circumstances.

Trans women's rights are women's rights and those two battles go hand in hand. Just the same as being pro-choice(which I am, btw. That affects me just as much as it does any other afab person) is standing for women's rights.

Having said all of that, I also think that certain issues like this are a bit more nuanced than people like to assume and I hate this mentality of "if you don't agree 100% than you are an awful person and just as bad as the people you hate". Is JKR bad? Yes, we can all agree that she is, 100%. I do not agree with anyone who would stand by her because she does do active harm to people like me and our community. Is being pro-life kind of a shitty thing in retrospect? Yeah, kinda. But again there are worse things than that.

I'm going to use this post to make another statement real quick, and I'm sorry to use you as the jumping off point anon, but I'm going to do it anyway. I did not make this blog to get dragged into senseless drama. I did not make this blog to participate in discourse. I do not vet every single blog that interacts me with me because I frankly do not care. I made this blog to share my relationship with my f/os and maybe reblog some cute imagines and stuff. Nothing more, nothing less. Besides the maybe three posts I have made directly referencing the proship ideology, I have avoided these topics as much as I possibly can because I do not want that here. This is my safe space for me to get away from all of that shit and just enjoy my life with my finacés.

I thank you for bringing this to my attention, anon, and I will keep it in mind moving forward.

[diabolocracy]

Something dumb lol. Quote from that one uhh... Buzzfeed show Ink belongs to Comyet Dream belongs to Joku Error belongs to Loverofpiggies