#rather than Patton actually being orange

[loganslowdown4]

Do you-

F- my dang brain

Do you ever think about how when the sides are wearing their Halloween costumes from last year, they all have their core colours included somewhere—

Except for Patton—? 👀🧡

I mean he’s a cute lil punkin, but why that costume? WHY THAT COLOUR??

H elp me

[dndeceit]

Some random headcanons of mine for the Sides and how they each manifested, and what it means for them to have a name:

They've all existed in abstract, in one form or another, for as long as Thomas has been alive, but they've only possessed an actual shape and sapient consciousness for the span of the series. c!Thomas wanted to "get to know himself", so he assigned parts of himself to his vine characters in order to have a conversation. They were "invited" so to speak, but c!Thomas really did decide what they looked like. So Creativity has always existed as a part of c!Thomas, obviously, but the part of it that is Roman wasn't a prince until the first episode, and probably didn't name himself Roman until several episodes later. Roman was the first to name himself. Patton probably did soon after, because he liked the idea. Logan was probably not invested in it to start. (Actually, it's possible that if he wasn't "playing along" that Patton chose that name for him, and once he told it to Thomas it stuck.)

The reveal of a name to Thomas basically sets a side's manifested form in stone. Once they've been named to Thomas they can't change the core of what they've become.

The sides only really began to develop their personal characteristics (preferences, hobbies, etc) after they manifested. At some point down the line, Logan decided that these things interfered with serving their functions, and so has since tried with mixed success to distance himself from those things that make him "Logan" rather than "Logic".

(This renouncement is also why he's so far been the most vulnerable to Orange's influence.)

Virgil used the existence of shorts!Anxiety as an opportunity to manifest on his own, and it was otherwise out of c!Thomas's hands. Him doing so was what opened the gate for the rest of the others to potentially manifest as well. This is what Virgil actually meant in Five Years Later when he said he regrets "achieving consciousness". He doesn't hate himself, but a part of him still wishes that he had let Thomas choose the way he had with the first three.

Also, Virgil was always Anxiety. The reason the "light sides" avoid the word is because "Paranoia" was what they called him before his appearance and before they knew him better.

(This is one I'm kind of invested in, because nothing makes my own anxiety worse than being told that I'm being paranoid.)

Remus has existed for as long as Roman has existed, and their developments run parallel. There was never a Romulus/King, but every detail that solidified for Roman caused Remus, consciously or unconsciously, to develop its counterpart since he was all the things that Roman was "leaving behind" in his creation of himself. Roman's existence made it easier to break through on his own, but it also put him in the position of being seen as a shadow, a reflection. Something secondary, redundant, rather than an important part of Thomas in his own right. In a lot of ways it's limited him, and it's why he's so much more obnoxious when he feels like he's being ignored.

Ironically given his habit of imitating the others, Janus is the only side so far to manifest entirely on his own terms, but that's also why he's so different from the rest. He's more abstract, and his form is the least stable and consistent, and it's actually easier for him to appear to Thomas if he's disguised as one of the others first. He's basically using their stability in the Mindscape as a crutch, and the harder it gets to convincingly fool Thomas, the harder it is for him to manifest at all. That's why it's so important to him, once he's there, to have his voice heard for who he is.

(This is also why he bit back so hard against Roman at having his name mocked, because he was making a commitment to being something fixed and concrete, and in a way giving up some of his dominion over some of the more amorphous elements of Thomas's psyche.)

(A need to more convincingly imitate the other sides might have been Janus's initial reason for the "hang outs" with Patton, but he's since been pleasantly surprised by Patton's sincere commitment toward learning how to work together, and once he had Patton's ear that wasn't an opportunity he could afford to throw away.)

And all of this is the reason that Orange has taken so long to show himself. He's taking his time. He doesn't want to make the same mistakes that the other "dark sides" have made. When he appears before Thomas, he wants to make sure he does it right so that he's as strong as he needs to be to serve his purpose.

[emoprincey]

Is Logan the orange side?

After Logan portrayed Anger in the recent inside-out themed video, this seems relevant again, especially with Logan's pointed remark about how he was cast as anger because they "both wear neckties and for no other reason". Anger is a pretty common theory for the orange side's role, and one that I happen to like, but does this mean Logan actually is the orange side? Let's find out...

There is a pretty strong case for Logan being the orange side. In Working Through Intrusive Thoughts, when Logan yelled at Remus, his eyes literally glowed orange.

However, I have some reasons why this might not be the case.

The first reason is that it would simply be bad writing. The orange side has been hyped up for years at this point. Working Through Intrusive Thoughts came out in the summer of 2021, but the orange side's presence was hinted at in the thumbnail of Selfishness vs Selflessness redux, which came out in 2020. All the sides were shown as selectable options on a screen, along with a seventh greyed out figure.

[Image description: A screenshot of the thumbnail for Selfishness vs Selflessness redux, which shows Patton and Roman on a screen with pixilated avatars of themselves. In the middle are the words "You vs. Yourself". Underneath this are six boxes, each with a picture of one of the Sanders Sides, and a seventh box with a grey silhouette. / End image description.]

I wasn't in the fandom back then, but from what I've heard theories about the orange side actually originated with the colour orange being used in merch along with the colours representing the other sides. All this has led people to believe a new character will be introduced. And if that new character turns out to be one of the already established main characters, that would be pretty underwhelming.

Secondly, it was confirmed in Selfishness vs Selflessness that there are more than two dark sides, not counting Virgil. After Janus leaves, Virgil tells Thomas to "not allow him or any of his friends stick around that long." That's friends, plural. Clearly, he's not talking about himself, since he does want to be around Thomas. He's talking about Janus and two or more other people. Remus is one of these, and from what we can tell, the orange side must be another. Virgil seems to trust Logan, so unless Logan has some kind of secret identity as the orange side that Virgil is unaware of, he wasn't talking about him.

I think Logan was cast as Anger in this video because he is known to have angry outbursts, as seen in Learning New Things About Ourselves and WTIT. I think the orange side is using him as a vessel to channel anger through, rather than Logan actually being the orange side.

Whether the orange side represents anger or not, I think this remark was more about Logan's own emotions and how he tries to hide them, than anything to do with another side.

[oatmeal-stans-the-trash-rat]

Polaris

Logan, my boy. He needs a f*cking hug.

Pairing: platonic Wrathloceit Trigger/Content Warning: self-deprecation, suicidal thoughts & ideation, emetophobia (no actual vomit), sleep deprivation

Description: Logan is ignored, yet again, and the only one who checks on him is an unseen character. And perhaps a certain slithering truth-seeker as well.

Extra: this is a pairing of Logan, Janus, and Orange. Idk if there's already a name for it, so I'm just gonna call it Wrathloceit for now. This features my headcanon that Logan does feel things very deeply, but since he actively hides it or doesn't let most of it show (besides a few moments here and there), that it all manifests physically. It would make him sick, I think, to be constantly ignored like he is. All those icky feelings he swears he doesn't have? They all become physical and not in a good way.

[Masterlist] | ao3 link

[Read below the cut]

Once again, the core four Sides had a meeting to reason through another dilemma. To ease Thomas' worries. To sort out the best possible solution.

And once again, literal Logic was ignored and tossed aside like an old ragdoll.

Logan wasn't surprised. He won't let himself be. It's happened so many times before, it shouldn't be a surprise. He expected the probability of being disregarded again. A 30% chance of being listened to, a 70% chance of being glossed over. The majority always won, it seemed. He knew that.

So then why did he sit at his desk, head in his hands, thinking he should've just been louder?

If I am louder, will I be heard then? Would they finally heed my words? Would it make a difference?

No, maybe it wouldn't. Why would it ever make a difference, his volume levels? The decibels he spoke at? He stared at the work in front of him, sorted in piles and stacks. Charts, diagrams, schedules. A few footnotes of references. Cited papers. It all felt like a waste. He felt like a waste.

Or if I used better communicators? Referenced more slang to appeal to their interests? But I'm not that creative. I'm not one to actively make obvious puns. I'm not like them.

The truth hurt his chest. It burned his lungs. A self-pitiful fire licked at his brain, at his gut. He felt a twinge of nausea. He was never made to be like them. They all had a common understanding of something. Logan didn't.

If I'm not like them, perhaps I'm not worth being listened to. Perhaps talking is too much already.

Vague memories played in his mind. Memories of Roman calling him annoying, of Patton telling him to stop, of Virgil saying that he needed to listen. To listen to them, not him. Never him.

Will they ever hear me? Will they ever listen?

He doubted they would. That anyone would. Not even Janus or Remus, nor the elusive seventh Side. Why would they? Logan tried to rebut and 'throw a wrench' in Janus' plans. Remus was fighting with him to be listened to as well, and the eldritch devil was practically desperate. And Orange... Logan didn't know much about him, only that he had influence over repressed anger. Wrath and Jealousy. Dramatic outbursts.

Logan winced at the memory of his outburst at Remus.

I'm not worth it. This isn't worth it. They don't want me there. They did fine without me when Janus took my place. They don't need me there.

Literal Logic was unneeded, at least in his mind. Logan felt so isolated by the others. They rather him silenced than to hear his facts or research points. He missed back when Virgil and him had that debate. Back when Roman and him would geek out over specifics of video ideas, of how it would all work together. Back when Patton and him weren't so at odds, weren't seemingly polar opposites. When light blue wasn't as different as indigo.

But those times were gone, and they weren't coming back.

Perhaps I can succeed where Virgil failed. I'll be okay then. The others would be better off-

A sudden hand on his shoulder jolted him from his thoughts, and he slightly flinched. He looked over to his right, head now out of his hands. A yellow glove. Reptilian scales. Yellow.

Janus?

Janus stood beside him, with a gloved hand on his shoulder, wearing naked concern and worry on his face. He looked distressed. Despite that, he calmly set a cup of tea on Logan's desk. Warm steam came from it. It smelled of lavender and chamomile, the tiniest hint of sweet honey.

Logan was utterly confused. Why was Janus there? He hadn't thought a single lie. None of it was a falsehood. Nothing was so deceitful that he needed to be summoned.

"Tea is relaxing, and it is 2am," Janus spoke softly, in such a vulnerable way that it sounded caring.

Janus was caring, that's true. But caring towards Logan? He shouldn't be. No one was, no one would, no one should. It was an unspoken rule amongst the Sides, surely. Why else would they ignore his input?

Logan glanced at the clock on his wall. It was 2am, ticking closer to 2:30.

When did it get so late? The meeting was in the earlier afternoon. I haven't been in my room for that long, right?

If he'd been in his room for so long, then...

Then the others truly don't care for me. I knew it. Of course, they don't. Why would anyone?

But Janus was there.

Why is Janus here?

"Oh, sweetie. I know, it's going to be alright. The others are just assholes."

He thumbed away tears that fell down Logan's face, a hand now cupping his face instead of resting on his shoulder. Logan was facing opposite of his desk. Facing Janus, who knelt slightly to level with him. The smell of chamomile was still strong and drifting behind him.

Wait, tears? When did I start crying? I'm fine, I shouldn't be crying. Logic shouldn't cry. My function shouldn't be emotional. It isn't- it...

"Hey, focus on me. Don't drift over into your head again, okay?"

He was so gentle. His glove was soft against Logan's face. Warm. He leaned into the gesture, releasing a breath he didn't know he was holding. That is, before realizing and tensing up.

"Indigo, you'll be fine. You're safe with Yellow and I," another voice, uncharacteristically quiet and careful, echoed through the room.

Wait, who...?

Logan gave a questioning glance at Janus, causing him to give a comforting smile.

"It's just Orange, sweetie. Who insists on calling everyone by their colour," Janus glared playfully to the side, presumably where Orange stood.

"What? It's not like I'm calling names. I'm not f*cking Red-"

"Okay, I get it. Roman is a b*tch, we know."

Janus rolled his eyes, turning his attention back to Logan. His hand left the nerd's face, and he stood straight up. Orange eyes peeled out from the darker corners of the room, and out stepped the elusive arsonist.

Why would Orange be here? To cause another outburst? Make me more hated than I already am?

Logan's thoughts felt bitter, angry- upset. His eyes reflected that same hurt. Orange's eyes flashed for a second, and he gave a sympathetic look.

"You're not hated, you know. The others are f*cking brats, but they don't hate you. Especially not for showing emotion."

Logan raised a confused eyebrow. Orange shrugged.

"Green can hear icky, greenish thoughts. I can hear the angry and jealous ones. I'm sure Yellow can hear when you think a lie."

Janus nodded to confirm Orange's statement.

But I haven't thought a lie?

Janus frowned once he heard the echoing lie. Thoughts echoed, spoken words vibrated. It was weird, but that's how they sounded. The thing that bothered him was how sure Logan was. How much he believed what he thought. It made his heart sink as he recalled what exact thought had made him race over. Only to find a lost-looking Logic, a beautiful mind stuck in a self-deprecating loop.

'The others would be better off-' replayed in his mind. He knew the last part of what that thought would be.

'-without me.'

Janus wouldn't let him think that. And it seemed neither would Orange.

"Sweetie, you've been lying to yourself. You know you're important, right? And loved and wanted?"

Logan looked away from them both.

"Indie, you are. No one else can be you. All those greenish thoughts are lies, okay?"

Orange scanned his eyes for any budge, any sign he believed their words. There was none. He sighed as Logan crossed his arms stubbornly. How could they convince him?

Orange's eyes lit up as an idea sparked like a small flame in his head.

"You know how people always look up to the Northern Star? What was it called...?"

"Polaris?" Logan's first word since the meeting earlier that day.

His voice was soft and hoarse. He hadn't used it for a while. He was used to being cut off, anyway. His eyes sparkled with interest at the mention of a star.

"Yes, you're right. People love to stargaze and look for Polaris. It's a common activity," Janus picked up on the idea.

"Isn't it used for star maps? For sailors to find their way home? A guide, perhaps?"

"Yes, Polaris is often sought out as a landmark." Logan spoke again, his arms relaxing and becoming uncrossed.

Janus hummed, small smirk on his face.

"Then you are Polaris, Logan. We need you to guide us. You bring us back when we stray from the point," the cobra whispered gently.

"You're our landmark in the night sky, Indigo. Only you can do that," Orange out a hand on his fellow Side's shoulder, rubbing in a soothing way.

"I'm- But anyone could-"

"Hey, none of that. They aren't Logic, are they? That's you. And we love you for it."

Logan looked at Janus and Orange in utter disbelief, tears gathering again in his eyes.

"Indie, we love you. We're your friends, okay? No matter how little you may know me, I still care. We both will always care."

The logical Side opened his mouth to speak, but nothing but a wounded sound came out. A whimper. A whine. Tears rolled down his face.

"Oh, sweetie. I know it's hard right now, but we're here. If no one else, we are."

Logan shook his head vigorously, struggling to wrap his head around the truth. Everything as of recent was catching up with him. It made him feel nauseous to think of it as the truth. Guilt flooded his very bones. He wanted to believe them. He wanted to so badly. But he didn't deserve that.

I don't deserve this, I don't-

"Woah, hey. Logan, look at me. You're looking a little pale," Janus cupped his hands on Logan's face, examining him.

He looked pale, and possibly almost sickly. It was a little scary. Janus and Orange shared a brief glance of worry. His skin felt clammy and sticky. Sweaty. Like he was about to-

Logan's eyes slightly widened as the nausea crept up his throat. He swallowed harshly, not wanting to vomit. The very thought of throwing up sent spikes of fear throughout his body. His friends- he'd soon realize that they were his friends- watched him carefully.

Why do I feel like this right now, of all times? What... guilty? Sick? I feel like tearing my insides out.

He whimpered, wrapping his arms around his stomach. He leaned forward absentmindedly, resting his forehead on Janus' shoulder. Orange let go of him as he realized how nauseous he felt. He couldn't handle vomit either, it seemed. He scrunched his nose up at the idea.

Huh. Something in common with someone else, then? Interesting.

Janus embraced Logan, wrapping one arm around the nerd's shoulders to keep him steady against him. The back of a now-gloveless hand on his forehead. He hummed, thinking. He brought out another pair of arms, carding a hand through the sickly Side's hair. It distracted him, at least. Kept him from spiralling because of the nausea. A fourth hand summoned a thermometer, the kind that scanned temperature on your forehead.

Orange watched silently as Janus did what he knew to take care of Logan. Orange couldn't do much, anyway. Him and Logan shared the same fear. Vomit was disgusting.

"Feeling ill, sweetie?"

Logan nodded lightly, not wanting to move much. He melted in Janus' touch as he continued to card a hand through his hair. He didn't cry anymore. By then, he was far too tired and distracted to cry.

Janus retracted his hand from the nerd's forehead, replacing it with the thermometer. He snapped his fingers, and now the bare hand had a glove once again. After the device beeped and he took Logan's temperature, he carefully placed a kiss on the top of his head. He frowned as the thermometer proved Logan had a bit of a fever. He'd summoned away the device and sighed. All of the emotional turmoil swirling in his head literally made him sick. All the worrying and self-doubt, especially paired with not sleeping well. It was edging closer to 4am by now. Janus wasn't sure how Logan had managed to make himself this sick, but being constantly ignored clearly affected him.

Orange watched as Logan's eyes drooped in Janus' arms. He looked so f*cking exhausted. It worried him. How did he even make himself so sick? How come the others haven't noticed? Besides maybe Remus. He idly wondered why Green wasn't there right now, what with all those icky thoughts plaguing Logan. It didn't matter, though. Green would probably come by later, anyway. He cared for Logan as much as they did. How he wasn't already summoned was a mystery for another time.

Indigo needed help. He needed love. A reminder of his importance. Asking him how he felt so deeply about this wasn't a smart idea right now. Indigo felt a lot more than he liked to admit.

Neither asked about how it affected him in such a physical way. Logan's health was more important. He needed rest.

Janus hugged Logan with two arms now, a hand still carding through his hair. A fourth and final hand rubbed soothing circles on his back. The cobra placed another kiss to Logan's head, taking note of how he melted further into the affection.

"Orange, could you go fetch some of Remus' nausea tablets?"

Why would Remus have nausea medicine? Logan idly wondered.

"Yeah, yeah. I'll be back, Indie," Orange whispered a farewell softly to Logan.

Orange walked into the room's shadows, vanishing with a slight whoosh. Janus stayed, knowing Logan shouldn't be alone. Not when he felt so low and sick.

"It's not going to taste well, so maybe the tea will be of use."

Tea? The tea... oh. I forgot about that.

Logan felt shame heat his cheeks as he remembered the tea from earlier. It wasn't hot anymore, maybe a little warm. The smell of chamomile drifted into his senses. It was calming, at least. How did he forget about such an aroma? Losing yourself in your head does that, he guessed.

Janus noticed his embarrassment.

"It's alright, sweetie. I think we all forgot about it."

It wasn't much, but it eased Logan's shame. His face calmed down, now only a little pink instead of red.

Orange returned, walking out from the shadows yet again. He held a little tablet in his hand. He gave it to Logan, who held out a hand to take it.

"It's dissolvable. Put it under your tongue, and it should work," Orange explained.

Logan hummed, putting the tablet in his mouth as he was told. Just as Janus mentioned, it tasted awful. It made him want to throw up; the taste of rotten cherries didn't agree with him. He scrunched his face up as it dissolved.

Orange glanced at the forgotten tea, picking it up and cupping his hands around it. A vibrant flash in his eyes, and now the tea was steaming warm again. Hopefully not too hot for Logan to drink it.

"Here ya go, Indigo," Orange passed the tea over to Logan.

The nerd removed his other arm from his stomach, carefully taking the cup of tea. The smell was calming and relaxing, and certainly stronger now that it'd been heated up. The cup wasn't too hot; it didn't burn his hands. He took a cautious sip, sighing in relief at the soothing warmth sliding down his throat. It didn't hurt, so Orange must've done a good enough job at not boiling it.

After he drank most of it, the cup got set back on his desk. He'd forgotten about his work, the piles of charts and papers. He whined at it, not feeling up to work but hating how there was still work to be done. The other two notice, and Janus carefully lifted him up and away from his desk. He almost squeaked, not expecting to suddenly be in the air. Janus summoned one last pair of arms, using all six to hold and carry Logan. He slightly smiled as he felt the logical Side snuggle his face in the crook of his neck.

"Time for bed," Janus said before Logan couldn't even think of protesting.

Orange chuckled as Logan groaned in annoyance.

But the others- they need work done, don't they? Isn't that why I'm here, to produce results?

"Hey, you aren't all work, Logan. That's not your entire purpose," Janus calmly reminded him, hearing of the familiar lie of 'I am only valuable when I can produce something'.

Logan hummed as he was set down in the middle of his own bed. The pillows were comfy, and his space-themed blankets were so soft. He nearly passed out once his head hit his bed. He was still in his day clothes though, and it wouldn't be very comfortable to wake up in those. But he had no energy to snap himself into pajamas, or even his onesie.

Luckily, Orange caught on and snapped Logan into his signature unicorn onesie. It was blue and white, and so f*cking cozy. Logan melted into its familiar comfort, way too tired to care that other people were there. Janus smiled as he snapped himself in his own pajamas: grey sweatpants with a yellow snake design, a dual-headed snake that wrapped with his leg and rested its head near his hip; and a yellow sweater, decorated with tiny quotes of law and philosophy at the hem and on the edges of sleeves. The tiny quotes were in cursive, written in a darkish gold colour. Orange finally snapped himself in comfier clothes, mainly a pair of plain black pajama pants and a dark grey, long-sleeve shirt with orange accents. The orange accents were flame designs, from the hem to the middle of the shirt. The sleeve had a similar design to Janus', but instead of quotes, there were little flames at the edges of his sleeves.

"Do you mind if we stay, Polaris?" Janus asked gently, making sure Logan was comfortable.

Logan shook his head sleepily, exhaustion catching up with him. He didn't mind them staying; in fact, he preferred if they did. Not that he'd ever admit it, but the presence of people who genuinely care about you was a great way to chase the icky thoughts away. Not entirely chase them away, but close enough. Perhaps 'keeping them at bay for a little while' was more accurate. Either way, Logan wanted them to stay, both of them.

Logan didn't seem to catch the new nickname. If he did, he was far too drowsy to react to it.

Janus climbed in the bed, pulling back the covers so them three could settle in. He laid behind Logan, closest to the wall. He carefully put all pairs of his arms around the nerd's waist and torso, hugging him lightly from behind. Logan hummed contently, placing his hands on two of Janus'. A silent way of saying yes, this is okay. Yes, I am okay with this. Janus embraced him tighter, making sure he felt the love through his gesture. Logan did. He felt enough love from even just the cobra, so much that he nearly fell asleep.

But Orange still stood by the side of the bed, seemingly and oddly nervous. He wrung his wrist, thinking for a moment. He took Logan's glasses off his face before making a silent decision on something, setting the pair of lenses on a bedside table.

Oh, yeah. Glasses.

Now he couldn't see very well, but at least it was more comfy to fall asleep. Sleeping with glasses was ill-advised. And uncomfortable.

Janus noticed, raising an eyebrow from behind the astrophile as he rested his chin on the other's shoulder.

"Orange, sweetie? Are you okay?" he kept a soft voice, especially since he was near Logan's ear.

Orange simply nodded, sighing as he wrung his wrist again. Then he stopped himself, taking a quick breath.

"Just, um... I want to help Indie out, but I'm not great with touch. So..." Orange was uncharacteristically nervous, his voice slightly wavering as he confessed.

Neither am I. Most of the time.

A nice observation for Logan, to realize he had something in common with someone. Not so alone, then. Not as alone as he swore he was.

"That's okay. We can figure it out, sweetie. Come lay down."

Logan lightly nodded along with Janus' words, trying to show it was okay.

I'm like that, too, he wanted to say. Unless I initiate it or am just too tired to care. Like right now.

...you're like me.

A freeing warmth settled in Logan's chest.

He's like me.

Orange climbed into bed, pulling the covers over the three of them. Logan took a hand from Janus', holding it out to Orange.

Just hold my hand, was what it meant. Just holding my hand helps.

Orange seemed to understand, holding Logan's hand. The astrophile smiled sleepily at him, letting his eyes droop and close. He swiftly drifted off to sleep. Orange smirked contently, going to sleep as well. Janus gave a quick kiss to the forehead of each tired Side, finally resting himself.

They all slept through the night, and even through almost half the day. They watched over Logan after they all got up, getting him coffee and such. Reading with him. Helping him take a day off to recover from all the personal emotional turmoil. Listening to him talk, instead of ignoring him. Having a real conversation with him.

Logan ran into Remus a few days later, and they talked.

And Logan finally got what he deserved: people who listened to him, even if it meant facing those who didn't.

[fangirltothefullest]

OH MY GOD! WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT ROMAN! This is a conversation I’ve had with my friends so many times! Roman is constantly villainized in the fandom for how he treats certain sides (namely Virgil and Janus) but this poor man has been getting so many mixed signals on what’s right and wrong.

First he’s mean to Virgil (not great but Virgil wasn’t exactly reaching across the aisle at that point)

So he’s much nicer to the next dark side that shows up (aka Janus) and he gets guilt tripped for being on deceit’s side

So he starts mistreating Janus just like everyone else is and guess what? He gets scolded for that too!

He really can’t catch a break.

I have SO MANY thoughts about this. Wverything is so nuanced but especially for Roman. What fascinates me is rewatching the episodes in order in quick succession we see Roman starting to make sure he doesn't use negative nicknames and then he's used like a puppet in the courtroom but its not Janus thats the problem, it's THOMAS who asks Roman for punishment.

Janus wanted him to go to the callback and the courtroom was specifically for the purpose of making Thomas admit that he would rather go to the callback because it would be good for him so he would stop listening to Patton telling him what he wants and doesn't and actually make the nest choice for himself mentally and emotionally.

But it backfired and when Thomas admitted he was a liar he wanted punishment for being that way and so Thomas looked at Roman, his ego, his desires, the thing responsible for his wants and hopes and dreams, the root of his supposed evils and looked at him and said what you want is bad for me and selfish so I need to be punished for listening to YOU.

That's what happened in that courtroom, that's why Janus was like what the fuck you missed the point that's why Roman did a 180 and called Janus a villain later because Janus was on Roman's side but THOMAS'S GUILT turned against him and so he punished himself by focusing Thomas to do the one thing he didn't want to do as penance.

And the worst part is that Janus didn't realize that was happening. If Thomas felt that strongly against his ego as being bad for doing that then Roman would have to do better- have to listen to what the guilt has its chokehold on- Thomas's morality. So he absolutely tries to follow Pattons call because it's clear to Roman that Thomas wants to listen to Patton and even if Patton openly admits that he doesn't know what to do, Thomas has burdened Patton with needing him as a guide. And Patton of course is trying his dawned best even though all his morality is basically learned from parents and religion and life doesn't prepare you for the complexities of it all so he's struggling too!

This here is why i don't see any sides as villains- none of them are deliberately trying to harm Thomas and the problem is actually Thomas trying to expect too much of himself.

There's my theory that Guilt is actually a side... but I don't think it would be Orange because that to me seems lore like something subconscious and potentially louder and more self-preserving than guilt. But I digress.

[lil-toastie-boi]

Ooh! Can you tell me about Kyle and Bee?

Hello! thanks for the ask!

i wont go into deep lore about them (Mainly Bee) cuz theres a lot of it and its rather triggering, but ill still say some things!

So Bee and Kyle are actually sander sides ocs, Kyle is Greed, and Bee is Well Being (theyre (yeah bee uses they/them) like all the sides rollled into one which i know just sounds like thomas okay i was young when i made them and wanted to do something other than orange being rage/anger/whatever)

thats actually why Bee has scales. thats the Janus part of them giving them Janus' scales, and the different colored eyes is also Janus.

Bee and Kyle are dating too!

also Kyle may look and sound bad (Hes literally greed) but hes actually very caring and kind (not like to a Patton level but still) and can recognize when greed goes too far. hes especially nice to Bee (he calls them his bumblebee :3)

thats pretty much it about them (or atleast all i can remember rn) without going into Bees trauma or talking about my other oc Jake!

again tysm for the ask i love talking about my ocs!

[risingsidesakira]

Greetings wonderful Citizens, and you nerds!

My name is Rose, mainly they/them pronouns but I enjoy the occasional 'he' figuratively thrown in there as well :P I've been following Sanders Sides for ~5 years at the time of writing this (that's my best estimate at least) and it's meant a lot to me, but beyond a couple of reblogs on my main here and there and comments under AO3 fics, I've never really participated in the fandom much and don't really know anyone who's actively into the series. I'm hoping to remedy all of that with this little side blog!

Now, a couple Side-related things about me...

Current Favorite Side?

Logan for sure- Though, Roman might have recently become an additional favorite as well. Those two have SO many issues I love them so much...

and if you're wondering if that "them" right here refers to the Sides or their Issues™, you'll find that the answer is simply "yes" :P

Initial favorite side?

Early on it was Virgil, I believe! Followed by the microsoft nerd in second place, then on equal footing. I don't actually remember at what point that stuff changed and Logan became my fave🤔

What about the other sides?

Well, first of all how I feel about Janus changes every other day, lol.

Patton has been getting a lot more interesting! I used to not be a big fan because I'm not really one for the extremely bubbly characters - much like I used to not like Roman as much as the others, actually. But nowadays Patton himself is having some Issues™ and that is something I very much enjoy hehe

Virge used to be my favorite, but for some reason my brain doesn't latch onto him as much as it used to. Still love him! But, he's a bit more in the background when I think about the Sides nowadays.

Remus is a trash goblin. He can be really funny sometimes and I love some of his mannerisms, but alas I'm not the biggest fan beyond that- Well, not the biggest fan of him, but I'm still very glad that he's a part of the series. DWIT and WTIT are two of my favorite episodes, actually.

And as for the orange side... at the time of writing this, we don't know anything about orange other than his appearance in WTIT and a couple of theories. Personally, I really really want Logan himself to be orange. I think that would lead to a lot of interesting growth for him as a character and would really shake up the entire cast - along with bringing some more context to his general tendency towards being a little hot-headed on occasion.

Favorite ship?

I don't really do a lot of shipping. If I had to choose one it would be Logince - Logan and Roman both have SO MANY ISSUES that they're just burying or hiding and they just. They fit so well together, whether platonically or otherwise.

Any AUs?

As of writing this, I've not really delved much into the realm of AUs. At least not ones that aren't canon-adjacent.

But I am working on one within my brain-cage! It's likely gonna stay there, beyond some art if I feel like it, unless someone ends up messaging me about it. It also doesn't really have a name set in stone just yet, so as of right now I just refer to it as the Lost Sides AU. It moves the timeline around a bit, particularly on how early Creativity split, considers the sides to maybe be not entirely imaginary (magic stuff. still trying to work that part out properly), and gives Logan a hell of a lot more trauma, haha. I'm working on spotify playlists for the guys from this AU right now, too :V

Favourite types of fics to read?

ideally? hurt/comfort, platonic logince-centric, somewhat canon-adjacent universe, no nsfw, if orange is in it he's not a separate side but rather just another part of Logan

But I also just generally tend to enjoy Logan and/or Roman-centric canon-adjacent sfw hurt/comfort stuff. I'm a sucker for angst but prefer when it has a good ending eventually :v

Okay, that's all i can think of right now! Welcome to my blog lol

[delimeful]

mere monstrosity (1)

warnings: spiders, misunderstandings, captivity

-

Logan woke up to the familiar soft chime of his alarm, and rolled out of bed bleary-eyed but ready to get the day started. He kept quiet as he crept out of the room.

He didn’t bother grabbing his glasses, knowing that they’d only be of use after his shower. His feet knew the way from his bedroom to the bathroom by heart, and he preferred to shower in the dark to avoid the likelihood of getting one of his light-sensitivity migraines, so he didn’t reach for the lightswitch either.

Instead, he pushed quietly past the half-open door and fumbled for the shower knob, cranking it up to exactly the point before it turned scalding.

The water flickered on a moment later, and amidst the clamor of droplets against ceramic, he heard an indistinct, high-pitched noise, like a chirp or squeak.

“A mouse?” he muttered to himself, squinting at the dark, blurry interior of the shower.

He couldn’t hear anything else over the spray, so he quickly turned the shower off and stepped back to flick the lightswitch on, potential headaches be damned.

He pulled the shower curtain fully to the side, and blinked at the sight of a blurry black splotch in the corner of his bathtub. Leaning in a little further, he could briefly make out individual legs, long and numerous, before they were pulled closer and blended in with the rest of the shape.

“You are… a considerably large spider,” he informed it, grateful that it was him and not Patton who had found it. The resulting terrified shriek would have woken him and Janus, and probably most of the neighbors for that matter. “Are you a tarantula? Are tarantulas even native to this area?”

The spider, rather predictably, didn’t respond, and Logan recalled that he’d just doused the poor thing with jets of cold water. It was probably curling all its limbs in a mock death-curl, trying to process the unexpected threat to its breathing and body temperature.

He reached over to the counter and carefully removed the collection of multicolored toothbrushes from the plastic cup next to their sink, tapping it against the side of the counter to clear out any remaining dust.

“Try to stay still, alright?” he coaxed in a low voice, crouching and leaning over the tub to get a better angle. “I don’t want to catch any of your limbs, just keep them all tucked in close like that and I’ll get you out of there.”

To his surprise, the spider really didn’t make any sudden moves, remaining frozen as he settled the cup over it. The only reason he was sure it was still alive was the tiny motion of its front legs, two little investigative nudges against the edge of the cup.

“Excellent job,” he praised, his curiosity only growing. Most of the spiders he had cupped would immediately run at the glass with arms lifted in threat, or run in frantic circles along the edges seeking an escape. Of course, none of them had been this large. Most wild tarantulas were hunters, though, not spinners. Aggression would serve them well, so why was this one so docile? Was it an escaped pet? Had the cold water been that shocking?

He quickly retrieved a folder from the living room, returning to find that the plastic cup had shifted a couple of inches. It was large enough to push it, then.

“Just a little bit more,” he continued to soothe, carefully sliding the folder under the cup bit by bit, allowing the spider time to shift its legs onto the folder so the tips wouldn’t be pinched. He then carefully lifted the whole ensemble up, keeping a cautious hand on top of the cup. “There we go.”

The kitchen was dimly lit, the small light under the microwave still on so that anyone getting water in the middle of the night wouldn’t trip or run into anything in the dark. Logan glanced at the front door for a long moment, and then gave in to the urge to investigate his catch a bit closer. It would be irresponsible to just release a domesticated tarantula into the wild, after all.

He set the cup and folder down carefully on the counter, and then placed a heavy ceramic plate on top of the cup, reasoning that it was better to make sure the spider wouldn’t push the cup-- and itself-- right off the counter.

“One moment.” That done, he went into his room to retrieve his glasses, leaving the light off so as to not wake up Janus, who had only gotten in from his night shift a few hours ago. His roommate normally slept heavily once he managed to get to sleep, so Logan didn’t have to worry about waking him by climbing out of their shared bed, but better not to risk turning the lights on in the first place.

The world came into a much clearer focus once he’d pushed his glasses into their proper place atop his nose, and with his vision improved, he had no problems finding the hall closet and rummaging through it for one of Janus’s old terrariums.

He set the glass case down on the kitchen counter without any furnishings inside-- he was only planning to get a good look at the specimen, after all-- and flicked on the kitchen light before carefully moving the trapped spider into the terrarium and then lifting the cup away.

The spider frantically scuttled back, smacking thorax-first into the glass wall of the terrarium, and Logan frowned contemplatively at the sight of it.

It was certainly a tarantula, one that he’d probably be able to find online fairly easily with the distinctive white stripes along it’s eight fuzzy legs. Concerningly enough, there was an odd swelling protrusion on the anterior part of the body. It was a similar dark shade to the rest of the body, but almost larger than the thorax, and it blocked off any sight of the pedipalps, fangs, or eyes.

The texture didn’t seem to match the carapace… Perhaps it was a piece of garbage or organic waste that had gotten stuck on the creature? If it hindered movement, that could explain why it had been so still earlier.

It wasn’t still now, exhibiting an odd vibrating throughout its body that Logan had never witnessed from a spider before. He would certainly be doing some research into arthropods after this.

Well, at the very least, he could see if that protruding material would come loose.

Logan carefully pulled on one of Janus’s thick leather gloves, one of the more worn sets in case the spider had urticating hairs, and then reached down. The spider seemed to spot his shadow, going by the way it stiffened, and he reminded himself that though he didn’t know the species and many tarantulas were venomous, it was incredibly unlikely their venom would be able to do more than hurt him.

Confidence restored, he continued reaching down until his fingers met the odd lump, at which point a low, guttural hiss sounded, and the spider threw its front legs up and lunged, slapping its limbs down against the floor of the terrarium in threat.

Logan remained undeterred by the small tantrum, instead focusing on the fact that the obstruction was loose, almost like shed skin on a snake. Studying the spider carefully, he pinched it gently between two fingers, trying to discern what in the world it could possibly be.

The next three movements happened in rapid succession.

First, Logan tugged lightly at the material caught between his fingers. Second, the spider recoiled sharply, pulling away from his grip with surprising strength. And third, the covering came loose, the spider pulling free from it and leaving a limp swathe of fabric hanging from Logan’s fingers.

Below him, now uncovered, there was pale skin, a mop of bedraggled hair, and a tiny, terrified human face.

Logan froze, staring down at it-- them with wide eyes.

The being he’d mistaken for a spider was actually a drider, a creature of myth that was apparently all too real. Logan couldn’t help how stunned he felt. Even apart from the shock of the discovery, there was the shock of their size. Driders were said to have a human-sized spider half, not the other way around!

Below, the drider was still frozen in place, staring right back up at him. He could see the way their little chest was heaving with quick, panicked breaths, could feel the way the tiny makeshift poncho in his hand was sodden and cold, and he felt guilt strike him like a ruler across knuckles.

“I-- Hold on a moment, please,” he managed, his mind racing as he stepped back, turning and hurrying out of the room.

Once again, the hall closet held exactly what he needed, and he mentally rescinded all his past complaints about the amount of extra snake care items Janus had stashed away in their storage closet like a dragon’s hoard.

The heat lamp was compact enough to fit easily in the terrarium, where the spider-person had scuttled back to press themself into the furthest corner, limbs pulled in tightly in what had to be a fear response.

Logan set the lamp carefully inside and plugged it in, sighing in relief when the bulb lit up and began to glow orange. “This lamp is designed for reptiles, not arthropods, so it may be too hot for extended use. However, it will work temporarily as a heat source to get rid of excess moisture, so I encourage you to use it.”

The drider was glaring up at him with the tiniest scowl he’d ever seen, front legs still lifted up defensively, but didn’t say a word.

“Do you speak?” Logan asked, and received only silence in return. “I suppose I should have guessed as much, seeing as you haven’t responded to any of my previous statements. Do you understand me? Do we speak the same language?”

The drider glared harder.

“I find it hard to believe that you have animal-level intelligence,” Logan continued, now mostly to himself. He lifted a hand, displaying the poncho he still held. “Although some birds can ‘sew’, construction of clothing to cover one’s form is a complex and distinctly human sentiment.”

Still, nothing. Their gaze was caught by the poncho for a moment before they looked away entirely, looking for all the world to be sulking.

Logan sighed, and then slowly moved to place the poncho next to the heat lamp, laying it out flat for easier drying. “I’m going to attend to my morning routine. It should only take me a few moments, but please feel free to call or make noise if you need my attention between now and then.”

The drider’s expression had eased into confusion at the sight of their garment laid out before them, but their legs remained warily upright as Logan left the room.

As promised, he only made a brief stop to make sure both of his roommates were still soundly asleep before climbing into the shower and preparing himself for the day, roughly fifteen minutes behind schedule.

It wasn’t too disruptive-- it had eaten into the time he normally allotted for sitting at the table and eating breakfast, so that would have to be skipped today, but it wasn’t the end of the world.

Honestly, he’d likely spend the rest of the day thinking about the surprise addition to his morning. There were so many questions he’d love to ask, but seeing as the creature had attempted to hide their existence even at risk of being perceived as a normal spider (and therefore possibly squashed), he expected he wouldn’t be receiving any answers.

Talkative or not, the drider clearly had sapient levels of intelligence, and Logan was loath to start off humanity’s relationship with a vulnerable and secretive species by keeping them trapped in a snake terrarium against their will.

Even if he was willing to weigh scientific advancement over his morals, his roommates would never allow it. Patton would naturally be terrified and possibly sympathetic when witnessing their clear terror, and he’d had enough extensive debates on ethics with Janus to know that his opinion on keeping them captive would be much the same.

So, when he returned to the kitchen and saw them toppling over and scurrying back from the heat lamp that they’d clearly been attempting to use as a makeshift ladder to freedom, Logan didn’t bother commenting, simply moving forward and looking them over.

“You seem to have mostly dried,” he stated instead, able to appreciate the subtle design work of the poncho better now that it wasn’t being used as camouflage. The drider gripped it like they thought he might take it away.

They would react fairly badly to him reaching out with his hand, and reasonably so. Logan hadn’t exactly done much except douse, capture, and then gently interrogate them. Not exactly trustworthy behavior.

He studied the terrarium for a moment before grabbing a washcloth and draping it over the side, providing an easy textured surface for the spider to climb up. There. “You are free to go.”

The surprised expression that flashed across their face was almost comical.

“I’m not sure what your purpose in the bathroom was, but I’d ask you to be more careful in the future. One of my roommates…,” Logan sighed through his nose, exasperated even imagining it. “Well, suffice to say you should avoid him at all costs.”

The tiny drider continued to stare at him, gaze occasionally flickering over to the towel with clear suspicion. It was saddening to be so distrusted, but perhaps this show of goodwill would help prove that he didn’t intend any harm? He hoped he hadn’t frightened them from the residence entirely-- he shuddered at the many, many potential dangers the creature would find outside.

“My roommates will wake later in the day, so if you intend to avoid their notice, I’d suggest leaving the enclosure as soon as I have departed for work,” he gave a little farewell wave, not reacting to the slight flinch it elicited from the little guy. “It-- well, you probably don’t share the sentiment, but still-- it was nice to meet you. Goodbye.”

Forcing himself not to turn back and get one last look, Logan hurried out the door.

[limitededitionsanderssidesblog]

Orange is Offence

I've seen several different theories floating around both prior to and post the new aside video, Working THROUGH Intrusive Thoughts. So I decided to throw my two cents in.

So my main cause for concern about Orange's identity has always been that he is never explicitly referenced by ANY of the other sides. They never once speak of him, but he has made himself known before, such as in the episode SVS Redux, when he appears briefly amid one of the videogame cutaways as an orange colored 4110.

This is the first instance we've had of a dark side choosing to attempt communication individually without aid or disguise from the other sides.

For instance, our first known hint of Remus actually comes from the episode The Sanders Sides 12 Days of Christmas, where Roman says the line:

"May visions of sugarplums dance in your head and hopefully not visions of your naked aunt Patty... Yeah, I don't know where that came from."

And later in Remus's introduction song, this image appears behind him:

For Janus, his existence was first hinted when he silences Roman from speaking in Accepting Anxiety Part 2/2. Later when he finally did reveal himself, whenever he would appear it would always be as one of the four main sides.

Then why is Orange different? Why was he able to speak to Thomas (in an albeit round about way through a videogame screen) when he has yet to show himself fully to him?

Well first lets look at what the color orange represents.

A few positive meanings of orange, of many, include balance, freedom, and expression. The most common negative associations of the color include crassness, rudeness, and frivolity.

Next, the newest big revelation in TSS since Deceit's reveal.

Logan's outburst:

Now, many people have been theorizing that Orange is a part of Logan, and that they could be either a dichotomy/set of twins such as with Roman and Remus. But I don't think that's the case.

(I'd like to give credit to @candiecards for this next portion.)

In fact, I don't think Orange has any significant relation to Logan apart from the other sides. Rather, I think Orange is using Logan as an easy target/susceptible vessel. Just like how Janus would only appear by mimicking the other sides and disguising himself as him, I think Orange manipulates the other sides through a sort of mind control. Which is why he would be able to greet Thomas through the 43110 screen, by manipulating and altering Roman's videogame example to suit his needs.

First off, Logan has always been rather short-tempered, this is nothing new. In fact, Thomas called him (and Roman) out on it in the episode Fitting In (Hogwarts Houses!). Also, remember the time in Learning New Things About Ourselves, when Logan grew so annoyed with Roman's constant berating of his character, screamed, and threw a notecard at his eye? If Orange was always a part of him, and can be presumed to appear in fits of rage, why didn't he appear then?

Because he isn't inherently connected to Logan.

But Logan is becoming an easy target for Orange.

Over the past few episodes, and even throughout the series, Logan has been feeling left out and ignored. He was benched in SVS and was skipped and tossed aside in SVS Redux. Besides Roman, I'd say Logan is the most self-engrossed and prideful, believing that he is more important to Thomas than the other sides. He even stated in Learning New Things About Ourselves that he is the one who "maintains order."

However, when we are introduced to the state of Thomas's life in the newest episode, it is clear that Thomas is completely disorganized and has lost any sense of control over minimal things such as keeping clothes off his staircase.

It's then made clear by the way Logan speaks with Thomas that he has been trying for an undetermined amount of time to convince Thomas to reorganize himself, but that Thomas has ignored him each time.

Throughout the episode we see Logan eagerly push Thomas to work on his set schedule, but then conceding several times to Thomas's more pressing needs to deal with Remus and his intrusive thoughts over Nico's lack of a reply to a text he sent the previous day. Logan does appear patient with both Thomas and Remus, trying to logic his way through each set back, telling Thomas it's okay to take a break because of his intrusive thoughts, and trying to reason with Remus to hold himself back so he can work with Thomas more efficiently. Of course, it doesn't work, and he snaps at Remus to stop ignoring him.

Interestingly enough, at the same time Logan snaps, Thomas, who had previously appeared only anxious over Nico, then appears angry that he's being ghosted.

They become offended over the same thing. Being ignored.

Before I continue, allow me to provide a clear definition of the word offence.

Offence (noun): annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.

As a reminder, the color orange can represent both freedom, expression, and crudeness.

When one believes that their freedom and expression of themselves and their beliefs have been insulted they take offence and often lash out in anger and become crude.

Offence can come from many places, it can come from different experiences, different expressions and emotions; but the reaction that is birthed from that offence is almost always outbursts of anger. Just think of a self-righteous Karen demanding to see a manager.

Throughout the story, Logan has been teased and ridiculed for his love and belief in strict and ridged methods and lifestyles. For him, planning and organizing and due dates are all fun things he enjoys, but to the other sides, its all just a bore and they make fun of him for it.

Logan comes off as (one of) the "angriest" side because he is constantly taking offence from others and defending himself. He is also more emotionally stifled than the other sides and does not know how to properly regulate his emotions, making him more prone to outbursts of anger. This would make it easy for Orange to take over/control him, by using his anger to blind him.

I mentioned in an old theory of mine, What is Deceit Really After?, that I believe Janus is plotting to create a power shift a from the "light" sides to the "dark" sides. And while in that theory I said I believe Janus would try to manipulate Virgil to gain power, although I still think that may be possible, I now also believe that Janus wants Orange to use Logan's offence and anger against him to control and manipulate him instead. After all, Janus was the one responsible for keeping the dark sides suppressed, only allowed to appear if Thomas wished to see them. But now they are appearing without Thomas first giving his consent to meet them.

He released Remus, promising that he would make sure that Thomas would no longer "deceive [himself] about the ugliness within [him]." Orange's sudden appearance could be the next step in Janus's plan to gain control, although I'm not sure what he could have offered Orange in exchange.

In the final moments of the episode, Janus is perched on a tree where he eats a green apple and says "Yes, everything is just fine."

As pointed out by @ethecookednoodle green apples represent matters of the mind.

The green apple at the end could very well hint at the upcoming events of the story regarding Logan and orange as the side representing Thomas's mind, and the side that performs mind-control over those who lose themselves to offence.

After all, whether he believes it or not, Logan has the most say in what Thomas does and thinks, comparable only to Patton, who Janus is in the process of seducing.

[clanwarrior-tumbly]

It it okay to request for reader (platonic or romantic) to comfort logan after last episode's events?

Yes lord knows he needs it-

(WTIT spoilers ahead)

.........

.

.

.

.

.

"STOP IGNORING ME!!!"

That single phrase was still fresh in your mind as you approached the logical Side's room.

After seeing the recent video, you were obviously concerned with how Logan was doing now. Even though he reassured you he lost his cool in the spur of the moment, it seemed to be a lot more than just a simple temper flare.

But for his eyes to glow orange as he screamed? You had no idea why that happened, or if it was the influence of another unseen Side that made him lash out.

Regardless, those three words were fueled with such raw anger that you've never seen before. Coupled with Remus' comment of "who do you want to really scream that at", it was clear Logan's frustration over being ignored constantly was sending him over the edge.

While the other Sides were clueless as to what happened, you didn't bother explaining it to them.

You would rather help Logan yourself, but more importantly you wanted to understand why he felt the need to repress that side of him.

After knocking, Logan opened the door almost immediately. His eyes were fixated on a book regarding anger management, though when he realized it was you and not a Side, he was swift to close it.

"Ah, hello darling." He smiled politely, though you noticed he seemed a bit more exhausted than usual.

Between his desperation to keep Thomas on schedule, dealing with Remus' traps, and everything else...it was easy to see it was wearing him down.

"Hey..are you sure you're alright?"

"..pardon?" Now he was confused, furrowing his eyebrows as he wondered why you were suddenly upset.

"You know what I'm talking about. You can't pretend around me, especially not after-"

"Oh..that again?" Once more he tried to dismiss your concerns, shaking his head. "Listen, I can assure you I'm in a much better state of mind now. I've realized I was being too harsh on Thomas, and a fool to think Remus would listen to anything I had to say. I'm sorry again if my outburst frightened you. I'll take steps to ensure that never-"

"You didn't frighten me, Lo." Your voice became softer as you set a hand on the door.

"....I didn't?" He uttered those words with slight disbelief. And it broke your heart to realize that he assumed you were afraid of him.

"Of course not, I wouldn't be here if I was frightened." As you entered, Logan did nothing to stop you, only shutting the door once you were inside. "But it's troubling that you kept your emotions bottled up for this long and..it got to that point. What if you didn't explode on Remus? What if it was Patton or Thomas?"

"Well..if something like that were to happen-"

"It's hypothetical."

"...hm."

"You're not understanding what I'm saying." You huffed. "Repressing your emotions and letting them explode like a volcano isn't healthy for you."

"So I should just let them dictate my every thought and action?" Logan frowned slightly. "That would compromise the very essence of logic: being able to make rational decisions. It's still my duty as a core part of Thomas. You know I can't afford-"

"And you know you're more than just a part of Thomas. After that video you could've stayed with me longer..and I would've helped you find outlets for your anger. But you hid away here, going back to making stupidly strict schedules like nothing ever happened. When are you gonna realize you're hurting him, too? That you're hurting me?"

For a moment he was stunned by your words. He never considered how this would've hurt you, but...what could he say?

What could he do to remedy this?

"I think you could let out some more of that anger."

"Huh?" He blinked, surprised that you read his thoughts. "What do you suggest?"

"Well, maybe..we can go out into an open field and you can just shout your frustrations to the world and hope nobody hears?"

"........."

"I-It's stupid, I know but-"

"No, no..I understand." He cut in gently, sighing. "While screaming in an open field is usually reserved for dramatic films and is inappropriate in real life, it may serve as a good catharsis for unconscious conflicts. Granted you are somewhere open and completely undisturbed."

"Yeah! Though..it may take us a while to drive out somewhere and-"

"That won't be an issue. You do know you're in the Mindscape, right?"

"..ah, yeah..I forgot." You awkwardly chuckled, falling silent as Logan took your hands into his.

"Hold on."

In the blink of an eye, you two were teleported to another realm of the Mindscape: a wide open field at night. Countless stars and galaxies were in the sky, with the occasional comet soaring past. You noticed the observation tower in the distance and remembered this is where Logan studies astronomy.

All the Sides could make their own personal landscape if they desired to. But you were always impressed by how he made something like this, rather than a simple room like Patton and Virgil had.

Logan let your hands go and adjusted his glasses. "Now then, we'll see how this helps. The exercise of shouting into the..erm..." He seemed lost on the phrase, not having his flashcards on-hand.

"Shouting into the void?"

"Thank you." He smiled a bit before walking away, putting a great deal of distance between himself and you.

When he stopped, he stared up at the sky for some time. Then he gazed down at his hands, which trembled slightly as he began overthinking that video...and every frustration he's ever had.

All the things he tried to get Thomas to do or say..but were always ignored or mocked by the others.

He hated it..

Absolutely hated it.

It wasn't fair.

Meanwhile, you were just checking your phone, though you noticed that Logan hasn't done anything for a good minute or two. It made you worried that he was gonna back out of this and think it was a ridiculous idea.

'Maybe this wasn't a good-'

"AAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!"

You nearly jumped out of your skin as Logan suddenly screamed, louder than ever before. It was truly raw and heartbreaking. But even afterwards he continued shout at nothing:

"I'M ALLOWED TO HAVE A VOICE TOO!! I JUST WANT TO BE HEARD AND FULFILL MY PURPOSE!! IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK FOR?!!!"

Then he collapsed to his knees, clutching his head for a few moments before bringing both arms around himself. His heavy breathing eventually slowed by the time you approached him.

"Lo?"

You cautiously sat beside him in the grass, stunned by what you saw when he gazed over at you.

His eyes were glowing orange, tears brimming in the corners of them. Now that you could actually see them, they seemed animalistic in a way. But as he began calming down, the glow disappeared although the tears didn't as they streaked his face.

"W-Well..I..wow..." His voice was a bit hoarse as he took his glasses off, sniffling.

" Yeah..I know, love." You smiled sadly, setting a gentle hand on his back. "It's very cathartic, isn't it?"

[this-is-a-name-dont-worry]

what i love with the idea of orange being anger is that anger is a feeling, and patton already represents the feelings

which means we have a similar situation to the creativitwins, but rather than a side who became two different sides, it'd be closer to a side having a piece taken out of him that became its own side. So while for Remus and Roman, you'd talk about siblings, for Patton and orange... you'd talk about father/son.

He'd actually be a dad. He has been one all along.

[sagesparrow394]

What is the Orange Side’s Function?

So, whether or not Logan is or isn’t the Orange Side, I think Orange is going to initially be viewed as simply Wrath or Anger or something along those lines.

But as many have pointed out, Wrath is an emotion, not a personality trait. If that was all Orange was, he wouldn’t exist, since Patton holds the emotional core already.

For Wrath to be it’s own side, it would need to hold another function, like how Virgil has the fight-or-flight reflex and things to make him more than just the emotion of being anxious or scared.

That’s why I think Orange actually will be revealed to have a more deeper and truer function: Justice.

I mean, what makes people more angry than feeling like things aren’t just or fair?

Logan’s orange-eyed outburst in this episode was caused by feeling like he’d been unfairly ignored by Remus. And Thomas, also felt unfairly ignored by Nico.

Back when Putting Others First came out, many people pointed out that, when Thomas stormed into his apartment at the beginning, the lighting looked rather orange. In this episode, he felt that the outcome of the wedding hadn’t been fair. He’d done the ‘right thing’, and yet got absolutely nothing except worsening mental health from it.

And someone pointed out what looked like orange lighting coming from upstairs when Logan had his paper-throwing outburst in Learning New Things About Ourselves. This was at a point where Logan’s opinions were unjustly being disregarded by Roman and called stupid.

A lot of the happenings that could be linked to Orange and Wrath in the series are born from things not being just.

So, I think when Orange is introduced, he will at first seem like a pure villain. A pure representation of rage and anger, which will scare Thomas and the sides.

But, as time goes by, they will realise that wrath isn’t always bad. Because Wrath also functions as Justice. He is the one who tells Thomas when “hey, something here isn’t fair. You need to speak up about it. You aren’t being treated right.”

Without Orange, Thomas would just let people walk all over him. Sometimes, you need to get a little mad and speak out when something’s not just.

[themadauthorshatter]

A while back, I made this post

And this has been sitting in my drafts ever since, until today

Granted, all we have is speculation, but screw it, my blog, my post, my rules.

Sooo,

Pride!Roman vs Orange!Logan

Right off the bat, I'm just saying Logan is POSSESSED by Orange, so Logan's not behind the wheel. So whenever I say Orange, it's just a possessed Logan.

There'd be a whole 'episode' of Orange taking over Logan and then wishing C!Thomas well with Nico before he leaves.

Roman, however, smirks and follows him while the sides are distracted.

Orange is walking away when Roman approaches from behind, admitting he'd always heard passing mentions of the orange side, but never really thought he'd actually stop by and pay them a visit, something that flatters Roman.

Orange spits that of course he's here. Logan's a perfect host for his return and he's not taking over Patton again; he still tries to eat flies.

Roman smirks and says it's good because it's what he deserves for all the trouble he's causing.

Orange spells it out for Roman: Thomas needs to grow the hell up and see that the world is a while lot bigger than he thinks. There's a whole lot of grey between black and white and people who work hard still don't get rewarded, no matter how many cats they save or who decides to come and go from your life.

The jab lands, but Roman, also seeing the cracks, tells Orange that the world's unfair, but there's still the choice of being happy to still be in it or to simply not care.

Orange is further enraged, demanding for Roman to take his "happy to be alive" shtick and stick it somewhere else because he(Orange) has bigger fish to fry.

Tough luck, because Roman gets in his way once more and draws his sword, daring him to try.

Roman's outfit becomes more exquisite and flares to orange, making him look like a king rather than a prince.

Orange removes Logan's galsses and crushes them in his fist, saying this is Roman's last chance.

Roman, giving a prodeful smirk, shakes his head and calls out to Logan, saying he'll bring him back so they can all sit down together and talk things out for reals, emotions and all.

It makes Logan shout for help, but Orange shouts, "ENOUGH!" and sends Roman back with soundwaves.

Roman is flung back, but stands back up, teleporting them to the imagination so they don't make a mess.

Perfect, because Orange is ready to throw down.

With Orange's eyes flaring... well, orange and Roman's eyes going a more golden ornage, the two charge at each other, ready to tear each other apart

And that's where I'll leave it because I can't think of anything else to write for this😅

Hope you enjoyed!!!!

[quietrainfan]

Hey! Anyone want some heavy platonic Loceit angsty headcanons I've extracted from the new episode? Well, too bad because it's happening regardless. :)

Yes, also some Unsympathetic Patton. You know what blog you're on. (This interpretation/headcanon shall not die. Not here.)

(Also, this is going to combine my observations and thoughts as well, so sorry in advance if this post turns out as a bit of a mess.)

Alright, so! Orange Side confirmation. How we feelin', Sanders Sides fandom, how we feelin'?

Honestly, the Orange Side theory wasn't something I was really all that into. It was a 'meh, could be cool' headcanon for me personally. But I have to say the way the reveal was handled made me jump in my seat with pure joy. No joke, I audibly gasped when Logan's eyes flashed orange.

It was all downhill from there, I was excited. Anyone who knows me will tell you I'm a sucker for character's eyes glowing when they've reached their limit or are displaying a power they've never shown before, combine that with an unexpected reveal and I'm sold.

Plus, glowing eyes have been a common theme with Unsympathetic content and Dark Side headcanons so you could imagine how the first peak into the Orange Side's existence (or, rather confirmation. we all saw the 'hello' hint, Orange, you cheeky little munchkin.) was his color in Logan's eyes made me feel. It was so cool!!! Ah!

Then Thomas had to tease us again at the end card with our boy Orange's eyes popping up in the darkness, waiting for his chance to be too loud to ignore. Like, the audacity. Who do you think you are, Thomas?! (That was a joke. Sorry, I'm just really pumped.)

Also, Remus got quite a few laughs out of me. Ah, I missed him.

Okay, headcanon time! We're going to do Logan first, then Janus, then combine the two. Sound good? Alright, here we go (Trigger Warning for discussions of alcoholism, please if anything I write here sounds insensitive or inaccurate, let me know and I will edit. Also, no need to read if you don't want to. Stay safe.) :

Logan

Logan knew where to grab for that alcohol bottle.

I mean, I guess that makes sense since he lives there and is naturally the most observant Side. But...that bottle's placement was a little too convenient.

Sure it was played up as a joke and it was funny.

But something about the way Logan threw his coffee into the sink and quickly replaced it with the wine stuck out to me.

I've joked about Logan and/or Janus having to "drink to cope" due to sharing the single brain cell Thomas has amongst all the chaos. But seeing that in an actual episode, even as a gag, is kind of...different.

Let me explain.

This may be a common thing for Logan that he struggles with.

He wakes up early to be the first one to help Thomas start the day, naturally. Logan goes to make his cup of coffee and there's always the lingering urge to take a sip of wine before anyone can see because he just...can't face everyone without needing just a little bit of it to cloud out all the gross, petty, negative feelings he experiences every day around them.

He's logic. He can't be drinking and risk any more harm to Thomas's function.

So, it's a constant battle with coffee vs wine, coffee vs wine, coffee vs wine-

Most of the time Logan is able to resist and go with the coffee.

It doesn't make him feel good in the slightest. If anything it makes him feel even worse knowing he'll be more alert that day.

Logan hates that was even a thought at all. He needs to be alert. Otherwise everything will fall apart. He is the rock in the system and without him everything will crumble.

Such a selfish mindset. He needed to focus.

Other days Logan just doesn't have it in him to discard the wine regardless of how much he wants to.

He knows what the day holds for him. It was all so repetitive at this point. Logan knew when he wasn't able to get through it despite it all.

That didn't stop him from shaming himself for caving. He should be able to handle this. He's made so much progress with resisting it up to this point but today he through it away again because he just had to, right?

Sometimes Logan finds himself "cheating" by hiding a couple drops of wine into his coffee on days when he chose the coffee but later felt particularly bad about...a lot of things, into his second cup.

Logan more often times chooses neither. The temptation for clouding out the others was just too strong and was a waste of time.

Logan is beyond tired of the others.

Every single action they have agitates him now. No matter how minor it is.

Roman's loud voice and constant references makes Logan's toes unconsciously curl beneath his shoes. Even a silent warm smile and wave from the prince fills Logan with an unpleasant tingle in his knuckles.

Virgil's neverending foreboding and unnecessary nasty remarks that he doesn't even bother to filter provokes Logan's new habit of biting his tongue. Any kindness he ever gives him makes his stomach twist.

Patton's nicknames, poking for for a laugh, his "sweet" way of shoving away any objection he may have, how casually he behaves as if he isn't part of any problems- how quickly he's prepared to "bounce back". Logan feels like every word, action from him something steps on a guitar cord in the back of his mind that makes the ugliest, loud, screeching sound. He feels this strange warm fuzzy ache he can't define. All he hears is that cord playing faster and faster the longer he stays in their presence. Logan no longer trusts himself alone with Patton.

Logan thinks if he just separates from the others long enough, the ugly strumming noise will go away.

But he's so wrong.

Logan can hear it even when he's all alone. When it's finally silent, he still can't get rid of it.

It's loudest when Logan is alone in his room. Logan has lost count of how many nights he's spent clenching his head, quietly sobbing, and praying for it to just go away already.

Logan often feels like he's losing it.

On nights where the sounds are particularly louder than usual, he swears he can see orange shadows creeping around him, lights of the color flashing on and off, he sometimes even sees it seeping in and out of the cracks of his door like a thick fog. At times he'll even wake to it glowing absurdly bright through his window.

It's just the sunrise. Logan tells himself. He has to believe that. Everything else looked normal, after all.

What's worse is Logan doesn't know how long he's been hearing this sound or seeing the strange lights.

Patton knows about Logan's late night and early morning struggles.

But surprise, surprise, he pretends as if he's nonthewiser.

If either Virgil or Roman asks about Logan, Patton will answer: "Oh, that silly billy's probably got his head in one of his astronomy books again! I wouldn't bother him right now."

Knowing full well he's having an emotional breakdown in his room that gets worse every day.

Knowing about the little sneaks of alcohol in his hot morning beverage. Might even speak about yummy drink combinations when they hang out in the living room, while Logan is present, specifically and even only on the days Patton knows he's cheating with his bad habit, while he's still drinking it.

The further Logan is to the edge, the better. Patton is still bitter about the events of Redux ending in his favor, after all. He needs leverage from somewhere.

When Thomas left to see Nico, Logan heard the cord again. His chest tightened and though he could feel the tears welling up, he kept them down.

Thomas hasn't been very happy lately. He had to let him have this.

No matter how loud those cords get.

Janus

I noticed that Janus was either unseen by the others or unacknowledged by them.

Janus was near all of them but far enough that he was separated.

He could've just popped up at the end without them noticing but...that's less angsty therefore less fun so-

Janus has been the instigator for bringing Sides that have been hidden away to be brought to light for a long time. If the assumption that Janus let Remus out is true.

He's always been hinting at upcoming events that are sure to come if Thomas continues to ignore certain aspects of himself.

He knows. He knows our Orange boy is getting worse and soon will be too loud to ignore. Janus wants to protect Thomas but that's becoming harder every day. Thomas is making it harder.

Janus will reveal the Orange Side eventually. And very soon. Hell, that's looking like less and less of a choice considering Logan's...outburst.

I think Janus has this painful awareness that he can be seriously hated for doing his job. After all, he's always the one who's forced them to acknowledge uncomfortable truths about Thomas.

He's the one giving them all of those hard pills to swallow and especially after Remus, it is definitely overwhelming and exhausting to be met with.

They question their roles more and more because of how used they are to the fixed mindset Thomas has had for such a long time.

That can't feel good.

Janus knows that his job may cause more hatred to fester the more that's revealed.

Janus is being kept at arms length and he knows that won't stop any time soon.

But he's a clever snake. That won't keep him from keeping an eye on Patton.

(Find it real suspicious that Patton was all mushy with Janus in that end card but still is at a big distance from him.)

Loceit

Janus will sometimes find Logan in the common room with his head in his arms, sprawled out against the coffee table. His glasses being discarded from half his face, unmistakable tears lazily dripping out of his lifeless eyes.

Janus would wordlessly go to the sink and grab a glass, filling it with water.

Janus goes over to Logan, giving him a gentle rub on the back. He urges him to sit up. It takes Logan a few minutes but eventually does.

Janus hands Logan the water, supporting the back of his neck as struggles to get it down, reminding him to take his time.

Janus takes his glasses and gently sets them on the table. He hands Logan some tissues.

Logan lifelessly takes them and tries to clean his face. But he always ends up crying into them.

Janus moves Logan unkempt bangs from his face before moving his head to his shoulder. Janus manifests a warm blanket over Logan and uses a bit of his abilities to soothe the shorter man's pain, tenderly putting pressure on his neck.

Janus and Logan have a talk. Logan always asks why he bothers to stop and comfort him.

"You've helped me through a lot, Logan. Not returning the favor is out of the question."

That was always his answer.

Janus and Logan do this often.

Janus opens up about sometimes needing a bit of a drink himself from time to time. Though mostly that consists of tea more often than not, he sometimes has a glass of wine or two to relax on days when it's particularly hard.

He feels ashamed of it. Janus has to be the strongest out of everyone, especially the Dark Sides. Allowing things to faze him was the worst case scenario. At least, to that degree.

But Janus understands that isn't his fault and urges Logan not to blame himself, either. While he hated that weakness he occasionally submitted to, he wasn't going to let the rare slip up to define the worth of his role.

Logan thinks that Janus really is the strongest out of all of them just for saying things like that and he's being too hard on himself.

On nights when things become too much Janus will sit with Logan and share a drink. They try to have as many conversations without wine as possible but sometimes Janus says "screw it" and sits with Logan with one or two drinks.

Just having Janus there helps Logan choose his coffee in the mornings and feel as if he's being heard even a little bit.

Now if only those cords could actually quiet down, that'd be even better.

[cyraniadebergerac]

What if Orange isn't Wrath?

I know with the last episode that it seems all but confirmed that the last Side will be Wrath. Logan was clearly angry when he had the orange eyes after all. But really, none of the other Sides have been as simple as one emotion or deadly sin. And yes, you can make complexity out of Wrath and figure out reasons for why Patton doesn't have it as part of his emotions. But there is another possibility. One far closer to Thomas's chest. For some time, us Fanders have thought of Roman as Thomas's masculine side due to calling himself 'a manly man, a man who is manly' in the Valentine's Day episode. And yet, Thomas himself says that Roman is his feminine side. And that makes sense. While Roman seeks to be a lot of the masculine ideals of being a noble knight, they're romantic based ideals, and certainly don't encompass the feminine traits he exhibits like liking makeup and the Disney Princesses. What Side would be the masculine side then? Certainly not Patton. With his empathy, highly emotional nature, and not really caring of being taken seriously, he's the anthesis of classic masculinity. Virgil can touch on it, but he's more of an emo edgelord that only really touches on it when he conquers his fear. Janus is, Janus, not physically powerful or direct like a masculine man would be and instead works in the shadows and manipulates, making him another anthesis to the masculine ideal. Remus is an interesting case where he toes the line of being somewhat masculine, yet really his crudeness and vulgarity make him more a manchild than a 'real man' and is certainly not stoic, nor cares about being respectable. The only Side even close to what would be considered masculine is Logan, yet if he actually was, wouldn't he have said anything about that by now? Therefore, could the Orange Side be Thomas's Masculinity? His masculinity would be a Side that Thomas would not be that much in tune with. As Patton has said, "You're a lover, not a fighter." And given his more feminine qualities within Roman and how being gay also stereotypically causes a guy to be seen as feminine, it wouldn't be a surprise that Thomas would discount and suppress any aspect of him that was masculine, only really giving that side of him an outlet when enraged. Which then causes him to be channeled by the one known Side that's the most masculine, Logan. Only helping him being exhibited by Logan is that Logan has solid ambitions with definite ends and he wants to be seen, heard, and respected, stuff that ties well with what the masculine side would connect with as masculinity includes the drive to succeed at what is tried no matter how long it takes, and to do well at what you're doing so that others see you as a person of worth with knowledge and experience that you can pass down. It also explains why his hello is a calculator joke and why that hello is channeled with the streets of wrath type game. Games of that sort are often seen as masculine games and since his closest connection right now is with Logan, his hello then is rather nerdy, but there. And so, when Orange does come, perhaps it will be in a more Gaston/toxic masculinity type form until Thomas can move on from that and so he and the new Side can come to a right understanding of what being masculine actually means and coming to acceptance of that. Your thoughts? Leave it on down below.

[the-sanders-sides]

(wtit spoiler warning)

unpopular opinion, but im not really a big fan of the idea of the orange side being wrath or anger. while similar to inside out, the sides arent really emotions; rather, they are your different conflicting thought processes when you work through a problem. you have the side of you that is logical and knows the facts and tries to use reason to solve things, the side of you that focuses on your morals and tries to use steadfast loyalty to your values to solve problems. there is the side that is anxious and tries to use to make use of fear to protect u and solve the problem.

there are the sides of you that are creative that think of fantastical solutions to your problems, whether good or bad, that try to take you to your dreams and desires. with roman, this is with disney-esque tales and hopes that keep thomas going and having a reason to things. with Remus, I think it may be using the intrusive thoughts to get Thomas to slow down when thomas is overwhelmed and wants to rest, which makes sense bc, at least with me, ik when I have an uptick of intrusive thoughts, it usually means i need to rest and relax so I'll be less overwhelmed and take care of myself.

and there is the side that is deceitful and cunning and mean and self-centered as a means towards approaching your problems with your self-preservation as the primary thing to uphold. unlike morals which may tell you to share what you have, this deceitful side of you acts selfishlessly to make sure that you are put first, no matter the cost. which is why I think any anger or wrath would come from Janus. anger as an emotion is often an expression of self-preservation. you feel anger when you know you've been hurt and you lash out in anger to protect yourself. janus has lashed out a fair amount for the small amount of episodes he's been in.

by now, it's also fairly agreed upon that Janus and patton are opposites/counters as well as roman and remus. with both pairings, it's seen that you need a healthy balance between those two sides, those two lines of thought, to not completely fall apart.

i am a firm believer that anxiety is the counter or parallel or opposite of logic. your logical thought processes get so messed up when you're anxious and scared, and logical thinking is often used as a tool to combat anxiety. this was explored between Virgil and Logan very early in the series. virgils anxiety causes cognitive distortions that weaken logans logical processes in being listened to. logans logical thoughts are able to tame Virgil's anxiety when it's too strong. i think Logan and Virgil balance each other out. those are the two who make a healthy balance together which has been discusses, albeit briefly, early on (remember the Yerkes Dodson curve?).

this is why I think that whatever the orange side, the seventh side, is, it won't be a counter to anyone in specific, and it won't be wrath/anger. right now, orange is showing up when Logan is weakened in someway. when janus kidnaps him in svs redux, orange only shows up after that. when Remus messes with Logan in today's wtit and logan is frustrated and out of it, only then did orange come through. we don't know if orange can control other sides as well, but if it's like janus at all, where janus tries to remove logan and his rationality from the problem solving, there's a reason it would focus on messing with logic & rationality to achieve it's goal of however it helps thomas.

because remember, all the sides do what they think is best for thomas. the sides are the manifestations of his different thought processes driven by different outlooks that all have an end goal of trying to solve thomas's problem in that way. but in the end, it is always up to thomas to choose which thought pattern he'll listen to. thomas chooses what he will do based on the persuasiveness of his different thought processes.

(for example, c!thomas comes across a wallet on the sidewalk. morally, he thinks the wallet should be turned in to the local authorities at all costs no matter what. his self preservation instincts tell him to take the cash and leave the wallet behind since the detour would waste his time. his anxiety tells him to leave it alone so he wont get framed for stealing. good creativity/roman would make him imagine a grand heroic prize for tracking down the owner of the wallet and personally delivering it, and bad creativity/remus might make c!thomas imagine finding and killing the wallets owner so he can take all the money. logical thought would say for c!thomas to return the wallet to local authorities if he has the time to do so, and if not, to leave it be. these are all just the different thoughts running through c!thomas's head which can then be personified as sides, and whichever action he does is attributed to the side who had the most persuasive line of thought, but none of these lines of thought are trying to hurt thomas, it's all different ways of protecting/helping him.)

so whatever orange is, needs logic and rationality to be a bit disrupted before being able to be persuasive enough to be listened to. this doesnt really seem like anger/wrath to me. someone can be rational and angry (ie. planning a revenge later rather than hurting someone now, passive aggression, etc.) which all feels more like Janus things to me, and I think you actually need to be rational to use your anger effectively. going ham on someone without thought will not have the same effect as thinking about the best places to hit without them getting you back. anger and logic don't need to keep each other in check like deceit and morality or logic and anxiety; rather, they need to work together. i dont think logan would be opposed to a side that represented anger at all. and orange would not destabilize logan so much if it were anger.

plus, Virgil is the only side that really represents an emotion. but I think people generally always have a sense of anxiety and fear in their problem solving, but anger/wrath isn't always there. for a quick issue like a lost wallet, i can see how these other sides of thought processes can exist, but i dont know what anger would tell Thomas to do there since anger is just an emotion.

so the question is, what is a thought pattern that exists when solving problems that tries to protect/help you, while also needing to push away or overpower your sense of logic & rationality to be persuasive enough to be listened to? I don't have the answer to this but I'd love to hear what other people think about this! especially if u see flaws in my reasoning of why orange isn't anger, I'd love to know!