#rnm discourse

[mazzystar24]

Shoutout to the Malex/RNM veterans who survived that fandom’s discourse and are now in the 911 fandom and gotta survive THAT discourse

[zeep-xanflorp]

just a request for the proshippers - if you make rickorty content can you please use the main tags even if it's not morty prime and rick c-137. if you only tag the versions of them that appear in your work (eg. rick x morticia, evil morty x rick prime) then they don't get filtered by ppl who exclude the general rickorty or rick sanchez/morty smith tags.

(i'm anti censorship. idc what you do but i don't want to see it. it's a genuine trigger.)

[vhvrs]

i do think on rewatch gf does have a lot of... really unfortunate writing choices that i do remember ppl calling out at the time stronger in s2 but its all v present from the start. ofc its overall a v decent show still but like its REALLY obviously written by a cishet dude in the 2010s

[lire-casander]

Apparently drama follows me even when I've left a Fandom.

Maybe it's me. I'm the problem.

[dr-lizortecho]

love going through the rnm tags and being teleported back in time (when I wasn’t in fandom spaces) and learning about some straight up wacky discourse, seeing fun exerts of interviews, cute photos of Jeanine and Amber and a billion old edits from a deactivated blog

[ricksanchezbignaturals]

Can I interact if I ship rick0rty but don’t bring it onto ur posts?

i don't really have a dni because like tbh im used to the internet being a place where folks go out of their way to interact with stuff they don't like. i got in many hours long debates as a kid because of that and now i hate discourse so i just avoid. anybody is free to interact with my blog if they want, it's just liable to lead to a block if their posts squick me out. im not gonna scrub though the blog of somebody who commented on my post or whatever to make sure theyre not into any fucked up ships. i block people if the stuff at the top of their page or a post that i happen across is more distasteful or uncomfortable than the stuff in rnm.

[bealittleimprobable]

I've seen mentions of RNM and Pride, and with all the discourse recently about "bi girls bringing their straight boyfriends to Pride" my first thought was "Kyle probably knows more of the local gays than Isobel does".

He would 100% come along to carry her bags.

Until proven otherwise, I’m keeping my headcanon that Deep Sky is Pretty Damn Queer. Not 100%, but definitely strongly leaning. (I mean, that correlates with Intel in the military, but I’m just going off vibes.)

And honestly, I’m expecting Kyle to notice it before Alex. He’s just going to be minding his business and gets a nod in the canteen from 3 different lesbians who know him from Planet 7. And then starts looking around at the others and going “Huh, so… huh.”

And when he tries to bring it up to Alex, totally clueless. “Wait, how do you know that guy’s gay?” “How do you not?”

(We haven’t yet reached my wish for… I think season 2 it was? of Alex getting more involved in the community. So I think while he’s good in himself now, he still doesn’t have much connection. Or gaydar.)

[winged-fool]

Okay but spill the tea about the class! I think it's ridiculous to use Tumblr for that (I may have reported them for spam 🤭), but also reading the responses to some of them......these students aren't that bright. Also, if you're gonna pick a show to analyze, maybe don't pick a poorly executed CW show?

Hahaha you know I can't resist being salty...long post ahead.

First and foremost, I don't begrudge the students. The class structure, reading, and assignments are ultimately the responsibility of the professor and having the students infiltrate fan spaces through tumblr as part of the class is completely on this professor.

Having discourse with users in a fandom space is one thing, but having your posts be judged and commented on as an observer is invasive and quite frankly makes me uncomfortable. With other users, I can engage back and forth with someone if we have different views on something and if it crosses a boundary for me then I can block them. With a student assignment, I don't feel like I have the ability to engage with them because they're just doing this for work and it feels like it makes me lose my voice. Not to mention that this is the second year this class is being taught so are we going to have to block the url every fall and make sure there aren't multiple sections? Most people on tumblr just make shit posts, we are by no means experts and it's kind of shitty to put us in this position.

I'm going to guess that the professor is a white woman, maybe in her late 30s, who was a fan of the show for a while and was part of fandom when the 2x06 rupture happened in the fandom. That rupture is what motivated a lot of white savior women to begin lecturing how viewers should perceive Maria's character rather than letting them decide on their own.

Having scrolled through some of the blog, it appears that one of their readings was on misogynoir which they then had to use to comment on these posts. Misogynoir is very real and I would never discount that. However, in this fandom, we have had people yell that and racism whenever people criticized Maria for her shitty behavior then they'd turn around and say some pretty racist, shitty things about Hispanics, so forgive me if I think this is more of white guilt than actually caring about being an ally.

I have always maintained that my problem with Maria stemmed from the bad writing of this show and I don't think the students are looking beyond the surface level. Using this show to teach critical thinking is quite frankly laughable. Exercising nuance and critical thinking is something that was severely lacking in this fandom and on the show.

Don't attack the kids commenting on the posts guys, they're just doing their assignment. Unless of course they start targeting you specifically. At the end of the day, it's no one's fault other than whoever is teaching this class.

[mazzystar24]

Fandom rant:

I blocked another person from the stupid rnm class but I wanna point out for the one millionth time that I’m not white and I’m a woman and if one more blog that I would honestly bet money is run by a white person disregards my words and opinions toward a character’s ACTIONS not her race her ACTIONS as being misogynoir I will genuinely go insane because I have experienced racism and walking around labelling anybody who doesn’t like a POC character as racist (especially when they are a POC themselves) takes away from real fucking experiences with racism

[ineedahugesticktobeatyou]

RNM 4X08

So many people talked about this episode as if it was going to pay back for everything lacking in this season, at least for the Alex and Malex part of it.

People hoped for an Alex centric hour, for flashbacks, for feral Michael. Instead, there wasn't anything like this in the episode. Selling it like an episode for Malex fans was unfair, if not a blatant lie. How can it really be about a couple if they aren't the focus? If everything about them is twisted to be a mirror for someone else? There was so much Echo that it was insane. I know they're the main couple, I'm well aware, but can something not be about them? For once? At least in another character's storyline. But then, I ask myself, why am I surprised? Like always, it's Alex's story but it's not really about him. It's about everyone else. Perceiving him is about Maria and her powers, and keeping secret that he's missing is about Max and Liz's relationship. Not even Michael going feral is strictly about Alex but more about the way he reacts to things. All the promised snapping and going crazy lasted the blink of an eye and then it was all good. Michael got level headed surprisingly fast. I mean, good for him. He's really the pinnacle of emotional maturity this year. He even ends up apologizing to everyone, like he is the one in the wrong. But again, when did RNM allow anyone to be really angry? Never. If a character is lucky, it gets to scream a little bit, throw some punches or a few dirty looks around, and that's it. Unless you're Michael and you're angry at Alex. Then it's going to last two and a half seasons. 

So, no Alex, absolutely no flashback of any kind, and not enough feral Michael IMO. So great for an episode that was "for Malex fans". 4x08 was hyped to be something it was not. It's sad. 

I'm really not capable of considering Alex's ghostly self like it's enough. I don't really know what to do with it, and with that entire music scene. I would love to be moved by it but it doesn't work for me. Great scene for Michael, but for Malex? I want to see them play together, both physically present, not like this, with a scene that's just a cheesy attempt at pleasing Malex fans. I mean, it's an alien show, it's not like I ever expected it to make sense, but I personally draw the line at this level of cheesy. It's just on the wrong side of ridiculous for me. To be fair, the same concept worked wonders for me in "Ghost", but in that case the ghost was visible. So, maybe my problem is that Alex is still nowhere to be seen, so I don't really feel anything for this "presence". Totally my problem, I get it. I was hoping for so much more in this episode, instead the only good thing that came out of it was Michael's return of perspective on the Oasis question Vs his life with Alex (and his final breakdown in Max's arms). Took long enough. 

Everything else was underwhelming for me, even other people's concerns. I didn't fully buy it, but I guess it's normal in a show where these same friendships are nonexistent since season 1. It's a struggle trying to fully believe any of it. And, even so, half of the characters don't really care for Alex, but for what he means for Michael. So, like I said before, it's a great season if you're a Guerin's fan. 

I'm happy for the fans that are enjoying this season, I really am. I envy them. Watching RNM would be so much more pleasant if I was capable of doing the same. Sadly, I'm not, and I watched 8 seasons of Arrow and 7 of Agents of shield, so I'm used to a crazy amount of angst for my favorite characters. I'm even used to not seeing my favorite for a very long time. The point is that RNM did an awful job handling Alex's situation. And I don't want to hear anything more regarding the actor's availability. It doesn't matter when the writers can't come up with a compelling solution, and they didn't here. 

Let's hope for 4x10 now, maybe we will see a glimpse of Alex at least. Or maybe not, who knows. I really hope so, though, even if I don't believe he will have any real importance outside of Malex in the rest of the season. Still, we'll have to cherish that, even be grateful for it, because it will be the only thing with Alex in it. Disappointed is not enough to explain how I feel about this. And I will still feel the same if they end up married. As the saying goes, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey… and I don't think it has been a great journey so far. 

[manesalex]

I can't believe I'm going to reblog rnm discourse in 20fucking23, but here we are.

First, I want to cosign what @ladymajavader said.

Additionally, I think most of the viewers understood why Maria was upset and that her feelings were valid. They were upset about the way she handled it and the way the show continued to the end to excuse every single thing she did, no matter how much she hurt everyone around her.

I don't want to go through all of it specifically because it's a lot. But I do want to discuss the scene where she brought this specific issue up with Alex.

Maria goes to Alex and says, essentially, that she can't be as mad at him because they're even. Now, I'm not even going to go into the way she specifically hurt him and the way he didn't share something that wasn't his to share isn't at all equivalent. What I do want to address is how she never once apologizes for what she did to him. Instead, it's a child's response. "You hurt me and I hurt you so we're even." The way the show both did this and never allowed Alex to be angry or hurt about what she did to him is my villain origin story.

And then we find out she only went there because she needed something from him (for him to help her with Mimi's laptop). Which, really, is a perfect encapsulation of their entire friendship from s2 onward (I loved s1 Maria, so I may be extra salty at the show for getting rid of this complex, flawed character and replacing her with a character who uses pretty much everyone and yet is narratively treated like a saint).

Look, Maria was not entitled to the aliens secret, and Alex and Liz were in no position to be the ones to let her in on that secret, however Maria’s feelings of anger and betrayal are completely jusitified. Humans and aliens alike are complex, and while knowing the secret may not have had any difference in what happened to Maria at Noah’s hands, there is also a possibility that it could have.  I don’t understand why more fans can’t understand her reaction to the whole thing. I don’t blame Michael or the pod squad for keeping their secret, they do that to protect themselves and unfortunately it is needed in their world. I also don’t blame Alex or Liz for not telling Maria either, because it was not their secret to divulge. I don’t think any of them were in the wrong in this (aside from Noah), but I do understand all their perspectives, and I understand why Maria would feel the way she feels, and she is not wrong or stupid for it! 

[thesquidkid]

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Roswell New Mexico (TV 2019) Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Max Evans/Liz Ortecho Characters: Max Evans, Liz Ortecho Additional Tags: Gift Exchange, Books, Max Evans is a book nerd, Fluff Summary:

I will buy you everything you want at Barnes & Noble. However, there are a few conditions. 1) You get 5 minutes to look at the books; 2) You have 90 seconds to grab what you want; 3) Every time you bump into someone, you get 1 book deducted; To ensure you don’t use telekinesis, I must be able to carry the pile.

Liz offers Max the greatest and most difficult present he could ever think off.

[powderseal]

michael and alex would do anything for each other but they’re only ever allowed to show it in isolated side-plots in front of villains or guest stars and it can never be mentioned again

meanwhile when it comes time for the climax of each season, alex must be sidelined into a gay bubble because the writers lack the imagination, or courage, or both, to prioritize the show’s best and most popular and most compelling romance if it means their straight characters have to spend a single moment playing second fiddle on-screen to a queer relationship...

[mariailoveyou-guerin]

only scene of micheal that matters to me man still whipped for maria deluca as he should also who isnt even gay guy calls her dream girl

oh its bad for him its very very bad for very whipped micheal guerin

[ladymajavader]

I love everything you said about the difference between malex and m*luca in the parallel scenes. I’ve been thinking about that too in regards to how Michael reacted to either. With her, he always seemed to be walking on eggshells or apologizing, for whatever reason he decided that was a relationship he needed to keep going so he seemed to just go along with whatever she said.

With Alex though. Like you said, Alex responded with a joke and Michael immediately told him it wasn’t a funny matter, he already feels comfortable with his concerns and fears and voicing them. And then in the scene after the ledge, it’s clear Michael is worried but upset and he doesn’t really try and hide it while still talking rationally with Alex about it.

It’s just so blatantly obvious the difference in relationships but also in Michael himself and how he’s himself and comfortable in being himself around Alex, like he always has been. I hope all that made sense, I’m just rambling I think!!

Yes Nonnie, your rambling makes perfect sense to me, these are also the paths my train of thought takes (see my ramblings below:P). Like I said on that post, if the show didn't want us to compare and contrast those two relationships, they shouldn't have made them sides of a love triangle. It's a plot device geared towards making the audience choose sides and compare options - should our main be with option A or option B? Which is better for them in the long run?

There was this brilliant post s about how RNM completely botched the execution of the love triangle as a plot device by not allowing Michael to ever make comparisons, but still the audience sees and compares those two relationships, inevitabley weighing - which is better (for Michael)?

And this (Speedily) Established Malex gives a lot of parallels to consider, but what interests me the most rn is what you zeroed in on perfectly - the difference in Michael himself and his comfort around his partner.

In 2x01 he pushes Alex away claiming that he never said no to him and always went where Alex wanted him to - and then he promptly falls into exactly that kind of dynamic with M. 

He was a pretty good boyfriend to M - we all saw him trying very hard, communicating, sharing personal stories, doing stuff for her, compromising. The problem was he gave all power into her hands and didn’t get anything back - not that we saw on screen. All the speeches on feelings were from him - the closest she got was that “I’ll never leave you alone” line which was used to shut him up about his concerns for her health and to stop pestering her about making a compromise and making his opinion a factor in her choice about her life. Funny, it’s almost as if TPTB knew that they didn’t have a future together and that translated into the character making choices for herself, without considering Michael, because she was building her own future, not theirs. 

We’ve been shown them communicating, but we’ve never seen her listening or at least letting Michael’s opinions inform her actions. And he really had no way of knowing how she felt about them other than if she currently wanted him around. And here he was, the person who all his life pushed everyone close to him away before he could be abandoned, trying SO HARD to be good enough not to be abandoned. 

Contrast that with Alex, who spends entire season 2 and beyond basically proving his love and devotion to Michael. Michael has no reason to doubt how he feels (he has a whole song about it), what he would give up for him (life, livelihood, sanity and happiness) and most importantly - that however Michael hurt him, he'd always be there for him and ultimately come back. Combine it with the dramatic "burn the world down" declaration and “piece I cannot live without” that solidifies Michael's understanding that Alex will always make choices with them both in mind, since he doesn’t see a future for himself in which Michael doesn’t exist and isn’t safe and happy - and no wonder he's so confident in their relationship. 

Even though it's so fresh, even though the demons of their past mistakes haunt them both, in 309 Michael doesn't doubt for a minute that Alex changed his mind or ran away when he doesn’t show up for their date. Michael forgives instantly, we don’t see him reverting into old habits of lashing out because he was hurt/felt rejected, because he didn’t feel rejected! He knows whatever mistakes Alex makes, Michael is always his top priority. He has the confidence that as much as he gives of himself, he will receive from Alex in return tenfold. And we see that Alex not just lets him talk, but actively listens and let Michael’s opinions, emotions and concerns inform his choices. Because he’s builiding a future FOR THEM.

tl;dr the difference in Michael between those two relationships is mostly based on confidence and trust in the commitment of his partner. And whatever comes next from the show I’ll be forever grateful that they’ve shown that so deeply ingrained, trauma-induced maladaptive behaviors and habits that hindered Michael in froming and maintaing a good relationship can be overcome, and not by supressing, but by having total trust and support from his partner.

[ravens-words]

I'm just now watching RNM 4x03 and- thoughts below-

the beginning is so weird with Michael and the alien girl (who I admittedly kinda like).

Why does everyone looks extra good this season?

Dallas and Cam together, hmmm 👀

Since when does Max call Michael Guerin?

Liz and Eduardo was so cute, I love my girl 😍😂

Liz getting turned on by Max's nerdiness was so relatable lol

MICHAEL AND DALLAS TELEPATHY AND BICKERING WOOO

This might not be a popular opinion, but I hope they'd worked on Michael and Max's relationship. It's the LAST SEASON. There should be some development there. I love Dallas, but Max and Michael should be a priority. Or at least equal. Side note: I wish they'd kept Heath.

Have I mentioned how MUCH I love Echo?

God, the double date from hell 😂 Kybel bickering 😂 God, poor Iz- maybe you should break up with her, then? GOD THE WAY KYBEL LOOK AT EACH OTHER

Gotta say, smart plan

HOLY FUCK, EDUARDO TOO?

I'm so bad with names, but that professor- I love her, and I feel for her.

I repeat, I LOVE ECHO SO MUCH. that last scene was so amazing 😭

Jones is gone, Eduardo is gone, Alex is gone, CAN SOMEONE TELL US WHAT'S GOING ON