#rogue theory

[rogue-of-broken-time]

ALTRverse, the Multiverse, and the Jacksepticeye Cinematic Universe

Hey. This little theory is about exactly what it says in the title; the "Jacksepticeye Cinematic Universe", the universe(s) the comics will take place in, and the concurrent multiverse as a whole.

I'll do my best to explain my thoughts below the cut. :)

—

What if, despite a lot of things being called canon and not canon these days, we made a theory that wraps all those things together?

And what if I told you it's all possible because of IRIS?

IRIS is short for "Inspiring Research of Impossible Sciences". They push the limits of what's possible by any means available to them, and according to themselves, they've actually succeeded in doing that.

But… what does IRIS have to do with the story, aside from being a corporate entity within it?…

Remember that time they tweeted about the multiverse?

What if there actually is a multiverse in play here? And what if… even our universe is part of it?

Hear me out:

My concept here is that IRIS is a multiversal constant. Meaning, wherever you go, in whatever JSE canon universe there is, IRIS is there somewhere.

We've actually had basis to believe this given to us. The fact that IRIS has a Twitter account in general means they're "in" our universe. They also exist in the same universe as Chase Brody. And, as seen in Void Silver issue #0, Marvin also recognizes the IRIS signature.

So, if IRIS really is a multiversal constant, what does that really mean?

It could very well mean that, in every single universe IRIS is present in, there is also an Anti or an equivalent of him.

Here's an example of what I mean:

2016-2017 Antisepticeye as we saw him on the JSE channel and ALTR-114209 are very, VERY different from each other. Sure, they may both make technology malfunction in their presence and be generally ill-meaning, but aside from their somewhat-similar appearances and motives, they have almost nothing in common.

Now, back in the day, we would've theorized that the in-universe explanation for this change would've been that the "Anti" we see and the "Anti" Chase Brody would've seen are the same entity, presenting himself based on his different victims' fears.

What I'm proposing is that, despite both of them being "Anti" in essence, they are two different universes' versions of one character. They are equivalent, but not exactly the same; "Antisepticeye" is our universe's Anti, which is why we've seen the most of him– and ALTR-114209 is another universe's.

(Of course, the out-of-universe explanations for the changes to the character can be chalked up to time– Anti has evolved over the years to be applicable to various situations on the channel, after all. I'm just suggesting explanations for in-universe events here.)

As with Anti, however, all the egos and even IRIS itself can have an equivalent in the other universes. KJSE Henrik, Mayhem Henrik, and Henrik as we saw him in You're Not Ready For These Scary Games could be three variants of the same character. Chase Brody as we saw him in Bro Average and as we saw him in Anomaly Found could be two variants of the same character. Heck, C!Jack could be a variant of Chase or even someone else– just because Seán declared him "non-canon" to the IRIS storyline doesn't mean he can't be canon somewhere else!

Dear ego artists and writers, does this concept sound at all familiar to you? Because it should.

It's pretty much the basis of every ego AU ever made by a fan.

And, well… in the extended multiverse of JSE lore, who's to say what is and isn't "canon" in its own right? Something canon to the story Seán is telling doesn't necessarily have to be incorporated into an AU. Similarly, Seán doesn't have to incorporate fan-made AUs or headcanons into the actual canon.

But it's something we kinda do anyway, because of the way we feed off of inspiration from each other, isn't it? Kinda cool when you think about it that way. :)

As for the future of the IRIS storyline and ALTRverse, though, my prediction is that we're going to see things harken back to events in the past (although those events may be altered for the sake of the setting), while making our way toward the actual canon story. I can't imagine a better way to wrap it all up in a nice little bow.

But, anyway… that's just a theory. ;)

If you read this far, thank you so much! I put a lot of thought into this one, so hopefully it makes some sense. Have a great one! :D

[humanstein]

Be careful where you step.

It has to mean something.

[qiune]

Secrets

[puddingbrainscientist]

the “show within a show” theory continues!

y’all remember how in space babies, the ship created the bogeyman because there’s supposed to be a monster?

rogue fits an archetype just a little too well. he’s smart and witty and full of bravado and clicks with the doctor instantly.

a lot of us had the theory that rogue was secretly jack harkness. and the thing is, he still basically is. he’s the archetype laid out by jack. doing some sketchy work, flirty and angsty, changes his heart and sacrifices himself at the end. and how many american accents do we hear on doctor who anyway?

so maybe space babies was designed mimic to the end of the world. and rogue was designed to mimic the empty child/the doctor dances (also! the doctor danced!)

maybe ruby is supposed to be the prototypical companion, be quite a bit like rose and clara. maybe rogue is supposed to be like jack.

maybe this new “season one” is supposed to be like 2005 season one.

it’s not little references meant to make you think of the past, this is an act. this is cosplay.

[fuzzyhairedfreak]

um uh uh um. so. did anyone else used to follow Nate Stevenson's D&D campaign drawings back in the day or-

[mwagneto]

questions we haven't answered yet that make me super hyped for the next season:

what did the toymaker mean when he said he made a jigsaw out of the doctor's history?

↑ is that related to the strange way the doctor's memories keep changing and the random weird stuff that keeps coming up? or is that something else

was sutekh "the one who waits"? he was never actually referred to as that

multiple characters have referenced "the boss" and that cannot be sutekh, so who on earth is the boss?

this one's kinda meta but ruby left but we know she filmed stuff for s15, is that just a single episode? and is the new companion mundy or just a classic case of repeating actors?

what's rogue's whole deal? do we think his story is done? coz imo him being tied to the above mentioned boss + "find me" + the ring (that 15 is still wearing in eps 7 and 8 btw) definitely seems to imply there's something more there

frankly insane amount of Susan mentions this season - is she actually coming back?

and of course. who the hell is mrs flood!!!!

[causalityparadoxes]

For some reason this stood out to me on my Rogue rewatch. In all likelihood its meaningless. A funny bit of throwaway character building for Rogue...

BUT... what if its not? The Rogue has to be coming back. He just has to. So what if its all tying into a future series arc? Ncuti says he's sticking around for a good while after all ;)

[sunseed-fandump]

What are your witch headcanons?(Thinking of making a story about young kids witches/wizards that shrink down the size of cookies)

Congratulations! You have opened Pandora's Box of shit I brainrot about! BEHOLD!!!

The Many Cookie Run Human Headcanon/Theories I Spin Around in my Brain

Based on what bits and pieces we've seen of the Witch of Light and her Coven (and some bits of concept info from the Witch's Castle Artbook). the human world seemed to be spiraling out of control. War, famine, greed, and more was leading the planet to death. The world was practically self-imploding. It seems like this specific Coven - which I call the Coven of Light - wanted to change things and make the world abundant once again via Dessert Magic.

Whether they discovered this kind of magic or it was already a thing before this is unclear.

They must have been experimenting with Life Powder, and I wouldn't be surprised if why they focused on desserts would be because Life Powder might just be easier to bake into things than use it for anything else. It seems like a very unruly substance that even Dark Enchantress has a difficult time handling.

However, even tho the Witch of Light and her Coven had good intentions that doesn't mean whatever magical breakthroughs they discovered were going to be treated with respect by OTHER Witches. The other Witches we've seen so far (like the ones at the Banquet) seem to be in the magical-baking game for entirely different reasons. What those reasons are have been left pretty vague, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with extending their lifespans or increasing their own magical abilities. After all, consuming Life Powder might have an effect on humans we aren't privy to.

Basically: WoL goes to an island/continent/whatever to do her Life Powder research and make the world a better place, winds up creating an entire sugary ecosystem and becoming a goddess WHOOPSIE!!!

Other spellcasters see this and go "oh shit that's some powerful stuff over there and also the land isn't dogshit and can sustain life" hence City of Wizards, other Witches arriving, etc.

From a conversation we see between the Shadow Witch and Sheriff Whiskerton, along with some interviews leading up to the release of Witch's Castle, it seems humanity has survived whatever near-extinction was going to claim them. However, as a result, magic is being abandoned and those who practice it (Witches and Wizards) are being persecuted.

Before arriving at the Castle, the Shadow Witch lived with her Grandmother who owned a bakery. It was massively successful! Until rumors started being spread about them practicing witchcraft. Suddenly, the whole town turned against them. (Witch's Castle Special Story - Lab in Chaos)

“…magical baking has become a forbidden craft. Attempts at the Ultimate Recipe shook up the world, you see. Now, Magic is almost forgotten. Witches and Wizards hide their true identities and seemingly, magic had all but disappeared from the world.” - Witch’s Castle Launching Showcase

Magic is a dying art in the human parts of the world, and is seemingly a shunned practice. This might have had something to do with why the Wizards abandoned their City. Maybe they were trying to escape persecution? Perhaps they were under threat of attack?

The City of Wizards seemed to be an independent city-state, and a powerful one at that, so I can imagine nations with strong bias against magic-users would probably feel threatened.

Regardless, the general human populace seems ignorant of Cookies and other living Desserts, just as cookies seem ignorant about humans. It looks like Earthbread as a whole is difficult to get to and difficult to leave. Perhaps this was put in place by the WoL to protect it from the wider world?

Or maybe what few Witches are left cast such a spell at one point in order to hide away from a world that wants them dead? After all, there's evidence of Witches still living across Earthbread, hidden away and isolated in huts and castles.

Regardless, Witches and Wizards are far and few, but what human spellcasters remain practice in secret. I can imagine them viewing Earthbread as a safe haven since such a place gives them freedom to practice their craft without having to be afraid of getting burnt at the fucking stake like in the Salem Witch Trials.

[thesleepyhollows]

Understanding Arkhamverse scarecrow.

I’ve been wanting to make this post for awhile. I think with the release of Arkham shadow we might finally have all the necessary pieces to understand the life of Jonathan crane, his motivations and his descent into obsession.

This scene gives us a lot to work with.

Let’s start with this. It seems like unlike some versions of crane who see fear as a tool. The true face of control and power. Arkhamverse Crane sees fear as everything. This has been observed all throughout the series. From him discussing how fear drives every human action in Arkham asylum to this line in Arkham knight just before he’s defeated.

Something else I noted in that clip was Jonathan immediately trying to rationalise and analyse his reaction to his toxin using fear.

Now we’re not quite sure what this original chemical of his does. Only that its intention is to trigger the shadow within people. We can assume through both his and Batman’s reactions that it aims to do this through a similar process to the future fear toxin. Bringing out and facing people with their deepest fears. Hoping they may become them.

Though that leaves the same question. Why jump to fear. He’s clearly talented in chemistry. Surly there would be more direct ways to bring out people’s demons rather than only focusing on a single part of the shadow. Well I believe that shows us even before this realisation Jonathan had some experience and issues with fear. It’s also why his greatest fear seemingly is just. Fear itself. The helpless fears given to us from evolutions and experiences long before our time. Inherent fears.

However we also shouldn’t disregard his fixation on the shadow itself. Why does he seemingly want to get people to become their worst selves. As seen in his tapes with Harvey. Why is Jonathan crane like this?

Well I think there may have been a time where he saw someone consumed by fear. Destoryed by it.

This could draw an interesting parallel to the story of Amadeus Arkham whose story started when he watched his own mother be consumed by her mental illness before ending up consumed by it himself. I think this parallel could make a lot of sense given that I’d argue although the joker plays a more personal threat scarecrow is the main villain of the Arkham series.

So allow me to tell you what I believe to be the story of Jonathan Crane in the Arkham series. Assuming that the brief backstory we got in his Arkham asylum character bio isn’t considered canon.

A parent or other caregiver suffered from great anxiety and paranoia that caused them to do great harm. Maybe overtime perhaps in one tragic incident. Jonathan internalised this and began to grow interested in the mind. Maybe it started with good intentions. After all he does claim to be helping people in Arkham shadow. Maybe that was a lie and he’s been twisted for a very long time. Who knows.

He began work at Gotham state university and we know how that ended up.

Though it’s worth noting he clearly was brilliant. So much so that this incident unlike most versions of the character did not get him fired because his classes brought the university so much revenue. Instead he left on his own accord to take over as head of rehabilitation at blackgate. An odd choice given the amount of institutions bidding over him. They were likely offering more, far more than the job he took. Though I think his motivations for this were split. Partly is of course the obvious motivation of easy access to test subjects that couldn’t easily speak out. We can see in the previous game that he was running controlled tests likely of the chemicals we see used in Arkham shadow and his subjects were willing participants.

Now either not enough people were choosing to participate or the effects were becoming so potent it risked drawing unwanted attention to his work.

The second reason connects to my proposed backstory. Maybe he was curious to explore how fear connects and causes crime and violence via the shadow. The chain reaction that begins WITH fear.

We then see the events that happen in Arkham shadow and we find out alongside Jonathan that he’s been inhaling his own chemicals during testing. Smart move there buddy. This sends him into a psychotic spiral and forces him to confront and become his greatest fear. His shadow. Fear itself. We can see that this truly set in given how messed up he looks the following day. Not to mention his actions becoming erratic. No longer thinking to hide his crimes until after he severely injures Harvey and huffing his own chemicals right in court.

Afterwards? We’re not sure. Of course he goes on to become the scarecrow then the events play out as we see throughout the rest of the Arkham games. He gets mauled by killer croc during the events of asylum and his previously smug and joyfully sadistic personality get destroyed alongside his face. The experience clearly changed him quite drastically as a person. Although clearly it didn’t shake his core ideals and beliefs about the all consuming nature of fear.

How pitifully ironic that this idea became true in the end. As he’s injected with his own toxins his mind collapsing and giving way to permanent insanity and terror. Fear really was everything Jonathan had left in the end.

[calmposeidon]

Okay hear me out… crack head theory coming.

what if Rogue is a Time Lord?

I’ve seen people say he might be The Master, but honestly? I don’t think he’s that unhinged. What if he’s just another Time Lord, with his own mission or backstory we don’t know yet?

Like:

He goes by a title, not a name. Classic Time Lord move—The Doctor, The Master, The Rani… The Rogue.

He clearly knows more than he’s letting on. Shows up acting like he’s already read the script.

And in Wish World, when he pops up on the TV, he’s surrounded by that bright orange lighting, which is a Gallifrey color. It’s all over Time Lord stuff.

Plus:

Wish World is also where The Rani is causing chaos. So we’ve got two mysterious, smart, stylish characters in the same episode? Big coincidence? I don’t think so.

Rogue doesn’t act like a villain or a hero—he’s got that grey, "I do what I want" Time Lord energy.

Even worse crack head theory:

What if Rogue is one of The Rani’s experiments?

Like something she created or messed with in the past, and now he’s out doing his own thing—gone rogue, literally.

[bnxxshthealien]

I'm telling y'all, this is NOT rogue

Throughout wish world, we never see anything that is real. It's entirely a projection of the wishes of Conrad: a world that looks clean but hides horrors.

This is a filtered version of the dimension that Rogue is trapped in. We see this romanticised idea of hell rather than the reality of where Rogue really is, which is just an eternal empty void.

EVERYTHING has been filtered by the Wish.

[hes-a-plant]

I have a theory of where season 3 of Doctor who is headed.

So, y’know how the past two seasons have had the secondary theme of storytelling, where characters keep breaking the fourth wall and the Doctor is continually alluded to as being a storyteller?

In the Reality War, we again talk about the under-universe, which I think is where we’ll find all of the characters who have disappeared saying “come find me” (Rogue, Helen Pye, maybe Susan).

We also learn that the Underverse has one crucial quality: it is a “world of legend”.

It is a “world of legend” so powerful that it is able to make the stories about Omega being a giant monster true.

I think that in season 3, we’ll find out that:

Rogue and the other missing persons are in the underverse

The underverse has something to do with these weird changes in reality. Maybe the doctor is a storyteller because people think of him as such. Maybe this is why he is able to break the fourth wall.

The last 15 minutes of reality war made absolutely no sense. All of Belinda’s past was rewritten simply because the Doctor wanted Poppy to be alive. Why is the past this flexible? The Doctor is currently in the Underverse and is bending reality to his will (without realizing it). He may have just gotten there, or he may have been there for quite a long time.

[dandelionjack]

random out of the blue theory-slash-headcanon regarding "Rogue": he's either a Time Agent, Division or CIA. the whirlwind romance was a honeypot for the Doctor, practically textbook spycraft. and it worked.

the Doctor loves to fall for morally grey rascals, right? so they, whoever 'they' are, construct a perfectly designed handsome bounty hunter for the Doctor to become enchanted by, complete with a 'heart of gold' and undue self-sacrificial heroism.

then a monster. there needs to be a monster. since this is all play-acting and showmanship, make them cosplayers. draw the Doctor in. make the puzzle irresistible for him.

break his heart. enthrall his mind. entice him to place the tracker ring onto his finger of his own accord. gather intelligence: confirm that this is The Doctor, the sole living Time Lord in the universe, highly dangerous entity, war criminal of his own admittance, and my oh my, what a prize. what a bounty on his head. but not quite yet. Rogue's recon mission along with his Chuldur fellow travellers was just for information, and they got that aplenty, TARDIS console tour and all.

all six of them were oddly calm as Rogue pressed send on the triform trap: they weren't going to a barren dimension. they were headed back to Headquarters, ready to report a successful task completed.

[user-without-a-cool-acronym]

ok, bit of a crack theory, but one that i could actually see happen

so what if sometime later in dragons rising the ninja go to Arrakore (Djinnjago would be big enough for his powers to do this at this point) and wish for Jay to return. But then, instead of getting his memories back, there are now essentially 2 people with 2 identical bodies. One is Jay, having all memories he had up to the merge happening and the other is Rogue.

Basically DR has these big themes of personhood and identity, all the way since the first season(Bonzle, Zane being seen by the administration as equipment, the way imperium used dragons for power, etc.). And while i‘m not saying that the ninjas‘ wish to get Jay back is wrong, there are some similarities between Rogue trying to establish himself as his own person separate from Jay and Bonzle‘s repeated affirmation that she is her own person, separate from just being a spell. Of course there are some major differeneces there, Bonzle was always the same person whereas Rogue was created when Jay lost his memories, but with the way things are going, he is well on his way to becoming his own person with a unique personality.

So, given that he has the wish to be his own person, already looks somewhat different regardless of the clothes because of his hair and has a different name to take(Rogue), i can see the show finding a way to make him his own unique person, while bringing jay back as well. Now this might be done via a wish or maybe his consciousness is uploaded into a robot body, but basically the result would be Jay and Rogue Walker, existing in separate bodies and essentially being (magical) twins

[bowtiesarecool11]

DWM Episode Preview 'Rogue'

"And this time when the Doctor dances - he really dances"

[intuitive-revelations]

Theory: Something serious is up with the TARDIS

I had been wondering about this all series, but after Rogue today, it's finally been confirmed that something's going on with the TARDIS (on top of all the other arc threads going on!).

The moment I picked it up was in The Devil's Chord, where the TARDIS makes a strange groan and creaks after landing back in 1963. Ruby thinks it's from Maestro, but the Doctor says it's "something else". As of today it's happened again, twice! Once in the episode itself, once in the next time trailer. The exact same sound effect!

Someone on reddit pointed out a few weeks ago that this sound appeared even earlier too, in Wild Blue Yonder (notably also when we first saw Susan Twist, had gravity changed to mavity, and welcomed the Pantheon into the universe). Each time, it's also had attention drawn to it. Here's a video of each scene, followed by a direct comparison of each sound:

(I did have a quick glance to see if it appeared elsewhere, maybe even during Flux. As far as I can tell however, Wild Blue Yonder seems to be the only non-S14 appearance.)

What's more, going back to that Reddit thread, someone pointed out what the Wild Blue Yonder script says about this moment:

And then the TARDIS seems to moan. The Doctor fascinated. DONNA: Is it working? THE DOCTOR: I think so. Strange. He reaches out, touches the TARDIS, wondering. And that 'strange' will come back to haunt him, one day. But now...

(Suddenly the TARDIS freaking out over Donna's spill might make a bit more sense...)

So what the hell's going on?

Well, between a trailer scene and some news that just came out a few hours ago as of writing this, I think I may have an idea. Given it's based on trailer footage uploaded and then removed from YouTube, I'll put it below beneath a read more:

In a removed Disney+ teaser trailer we get two frames of the Doctor screaming out into space (with Mel behind him). Except it's not from "his" TARDIS:

It's the f*cking memory TARDIS!

And here's the thing. Not only was this trailer scrubbed from the Disney+ and BBC channels, but in the other trailers, this clip is entirely different! Not only is Mel gone, but the TARDIS interior is now Fifteen's own, and the TARDIS is in a different, generic region of space.

Just before this, we also see a similar nebulous region of space matching the unmanipulated clip.

But why on Earth is this such a big deal, that the BBC/Disney would go full MCU and give us a deliberately altered clip? The only previous time I remember Doctor Who doing this was for Series 10, hiding the plot point of the Doctor's blindness. It's not because of Mel, who literally appears in the released trailer. It's also seemingly not because of the background, despite it also being altered (unless the two moons are a clue with the planet being Gallifrey or something - the thought had occurred to me - but that's such a tiny detail, and we also only see one sun). Instead, it must be the Memory TARDIS. But why?

In-universe, I have no idea. On one hand I'd be delighted to get some answers as to its nature. Assuming it's connected to the groans we've been hearing, then it could be the TARDIS undergoes some sort of metamorphosis into this state? But we've seen the TARDIS change all the time, whether for safety, to recover or whatever. I also can't imagine general audiences are falling over themselves to find out the in-universe explanation for a Classic Who re-release framing device. Not to mention, apparently the sound will go on to "haunt" the Doctor...

...maybe the TARDIS straight up is taken out of commission in some way? And the Memory TARDIS isn't the same ship, but the Doctor's way of saving the day without her? Maybe even remembered into existence Fitz/Amy style?

Out of universe however, it's just been announced yesterday that we're getting more Tales of the TARDIS.

And not just more omnibus stories with past characters returning for in-universe commentary... but with Fifteen and Ruby! What's more, it's apparently a one-off, right before the finale (but, note, after the first part next week).

Which means it's important. Possibly extremely so, given the edited trailer scene. It might even serve as an interquel, given Fifteen and Ruby are somehow in it.

I've seen two common theories. Either a) it will be Pyramids of Mars, and we're getting Sutekh in the finale (presumably with Fifteen and Ruby partially because of bringing back Elizabeth Sladen obviously not being an available option - and even if you thought up another character, eg. Luke, I doubt Tom would be interested, at that point anyway), or b) it will be something tying into Susan returning.

Honestly between the remaining trailer clips (eg. sandstorms and dusty planets), a tease RTD supposedly gave in DWM, and an old interview with him where he supposedly floated the idea of bringing back a Classic Who for a finale and airing the original serial on BBC3 beforehand, I'm kinda leaning towards the prior, even though it wasn't at all on my radar.

However, this still doesn't actually answer what's up with the TARDIS.

It could quite literally be anything. However, here's a few ideas, some reasonable some weird, that I have come up with:

Old age / stress. This is a weird one, but oddly enough something I had thought of once in the past, and I just saw someone else come to the same idea on Reddit. The idea is that while the Doctor has a new regeneration cycle and now a good few years, if not decades or more, of rest and recovery, the TARDIS may struggling in it's own right (especially if it is somehow old enough to have once been the Fugitive Doctor's). However, while this could be something interesting to explore, and I think isn't entirely mutually exclusive with other options, I can't imagine going anywhere near a storyline of the TARDIS itself 'wearing thin'. Besides, if we did, I like to imagine it would have been foreshadowed with size leakage, as per Name of the Doctor.

Relating to the above, could it be something linked to the TARDIS splitting in The Giggle? However, the sound starts before then (not that that means much to the TARDIS, but still).

Laws of rationality breaking down. This one makes the most sense in a lot of ways, between the expanded universe (particularly Christmas on a Rational Planet) and Flux, we've seen the TARDIS cannot survive in an irrational universe. While time has stabilised for now, we're still seeing magic and other Old Time forces encroaching in on the Web of Time. I'm a bit torn with this one however, as while it works from a lore and writing perspective, plus matches with this starting in Wild Blue Yonder (right after the Mavity incident... interestingly), it seems odd it's not more connected with what happened in Flux? Why are the sounds and effects on the TARDIS completely different?

Something to do with the Doctor's fobwatch. In Rogue, the Doctor blames the sound on indigestion. We know we're getting more Timeless Child related stuff - could this somehow be linked to Thirteen dropping the Division biodata module deep into the TARDIS? Would be a weird time to pick this up though, and I'm not sure exactly how that would have had such an effect.

The most actually likely, but least possible to theorise about: it's something time-wimey to do with Ruby, the villain(s) of the story, and/or Susan Twist, especially given this started after her first appearance.

Regardless, I'm just excited to see what's up with the Memory / "Remembered" TARDIS, because it's seems we're about to learn something...