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thefanficmonster · 2 years

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Always Here

Corpse Husband x Reader with Selective Mutism (Gender Neutral - 2nd POV)

Warnings: Mentions of Anxiety and Depression (only briefly), Swearing, Mild Insecurity

Genre: Fluff, Mild Angst, RPF (Real Person Fic)

Summary: You explain to yours and Corpse’s friends why it’d be a bad idea to meet them in person, finally revealing the secret you’ve been keeping from them since you met.

Requested by Anon. Hi darling! Thank you so much for your wonderful request! I’m so sorry for the long wait for the fic to be posted but here it finally is and I hope you enjoy reading it if you come across it! And if I’ve gotten anything about the disorder incorrectly, anyone who wants to can correct me in the comments. Please keep in mind that this is the first time I’m hearing about this disorder so I have probably made mistakes which are in no way intentional or meant to offend anyone. Love, Vy ❤

“Hey..?“ You hear the soft voice of your boyfriend come from the other side of the slightly ajar door to your shared room where you’ve been working on a project for your students for Monday.

“Hmm?“ You hum questioningly, not taking your eyes off the laptop screen where the words you’ve been typing for hours now stare back at you. Being a foreign languages tutor requires a lot of attention, dedication and caution. Not once have you reread a text to see that there are French words in it when you had intended for it to be in Spanish or vice versa.

That has worked out well in your favor this past week. You’ve been dodging requests to join streams with Corpse and your friends for almost seven days now, always using the same excuse. It’s not so much so that you don’t want to hang out with them, but there is a certain topic you want to avoid which they’d touched upon the last time you were on call with them and that is: meeting up in person.

“We’re playing Phasmophobia...wanna join?“ He asks cautiously, now taking a step inside the room, “It’s your game after all...“

You save the progress you’ve made with the worksheet before spinning your desk chair to face the doorway where Corpse is awkwardly standing as though he’s unsure if he’s welcomed inside the room.

“I know, I know it is but I’m swamped, really....“ You trail off, hoping the same trick would work for the hundredth time. A quick look into his eyes bursts that hopeful bubble of yours - there’s a spark suggesting he won’t let it fly this time.

“Are you? I mean, yeah I know how much of a busybody you are but this seems too convenient....Are you sure there’s no other reason for you avoiding us?“ He asks, carefully picking his words as his gaze struggles to stay focused on yours, frequently falling to the floor as if he’s nervous or guilty because of what he’s saying.

You pause for a second. On any other occasion you wouldn’t have hesitated to tell him not to worry and reassure him that work is just keeping you away from him and your friends but right now you can’t lie to him. Seeing him so flooded with worry to the point he feels helpless makes your heart ache.

Your voice almost fails you but you fight it. You’ve never let the words die down in your throat around Corpse. He’s the only person who didn’t stress you out or trigger your anxiety upon meeting for the first time. It probably had something to do with the unspoken understanding you two shared. The struggles you could relate on and the fact that you both had been fucked over by life from the very start of it and later on as the years went by.

“I just...I don’t want them to think of me or see me any differently, you know? But I don’t want to lie to them either. Work and stuff is only half the truth, if I’m being honest but it still feels like I’m such a nasty liar...Like I’m letting my morals down. I don’t wanna lose my friends they are right now either...I don’t think I’d ever hop back on stream if I know they look at me and talk to me with pity.“

This encourages him to finally cross the threshold and walk over to you, squatting in front of your chair, “There’s no way that’ll happen, Y/N. I know those people like the back of my hand. I know that nothing will change the way they see you. Rae would never stop casually flirting with you every now and then. Toast would never pass up an opportunity to anger you to the point of turning you into a murderer and Sykkuno... well, he will continue being adorable and sweet with you as he always has been.“ He explains, holding your hands in his, resting them in your lap as his eyes dig into yours, searching for all the emotions you’re feeling at the moment.

You shake your head ever so slightly, “You can’t be sure. They’re human, Corpse. Pity and sympathy are parts of human nature, part of the humane reaction when told something bad has happened to someone or someone’s struggling with something...it’s natural! But that doesn’t change the fact that I absolutely hate the thought of it happening to me.”

“And it’s a friend’s nature to be able to gauge your emotions and what you do and don’t wanna hear. A friend would know how to react, how to respond and how to comfort you.“ He stands his ground, speaking so softly yet convincingly it’s baffling, “They’ll know better than to pity you. You - someone who could easily kick their asses in any given Among Us game - have nothing to worry about. That I guarantee and I’m asking you to trust me.“

You’re left on the fence. On one hand, the fear of losing what you have with the squad right now, having them not be your safe space is a nightmarish thought of its own, but then again Corpse has known these people for a lot longer than you have which gives you a reason to believe him.

“What if it all goes downhill?“ You ask, voice barely above a whisper as you stare down at your joined hands in your lap. His gaze is as convincing as his words and you really don’t wanna look at it right now because you’re afraid it’ll convince you.

“What if it doesn’t?“ He replies without missing a beat. “It won’t, Y/N. I bet my life that it won’t go downhill.”

There’s a long pause, leaving the two of you in a dead silence. The air in the room has become heavy with the tension and suspense of awaiting your answer. The fun but not really fun part is that you too are waiting to see what the answer will be. You’re as much in the dark as he is. You don’t know what your brain will decide in the last second, you can’t predict it when your mind and body feel so detached from one another at the moment.

“Alright...“ You only become aware of the word when it echoes off the walls, slicing through the silence, “But...in a case shit goes bad, I’ll never forgive you.“

Without a second to waste he gets to his feet, lifting you with him. His lips press against yours briefly before he says: “I know I won’t get to find out what that feels like.”

Yeah, I hope so too.

* * * * *

“Hey guys, guess who I finally dragged back on stream!“ Corpse announces proudly as the arm that he has wrapped around your waist tightens its hold as if you’re about to jump off his lap and run for the hills which you’re awfully willing to do.

“Hi everybody!“ You greet your friends, “Long time no see!“

“Oh my Gosh, hi Y/N!“ Rae is the first to exclaim a response, provoking the corners of your lips to curve, “I’ve missed you so much!“

“Aww, I missed you too, sweetie.“ You gush, momentarily forgetting the stress of the inevitable.

“Ugh, we really need to meet up someday! You can’t run away or leave me on read in real life.“ She laughs, obviously only half-joking with some true intentions behind the joke.

Feeling surprisingly calm, you let out a sigh, inhale a long deep breath and go on to say, “I wish I could, Rae, I really do, but I’m afraid that isn’t possible for the time being.”

You look to your side and see Corpse’s gaze fixated on you as he nods his head slowly, a small warm smile on his face, an unspoken encouragement. He knows you have it in the bag, you’re the one doubting yourself.

“Oh, why is that? Is something wrong?“ Your heart flutters at the worry evident in Rae’s voice. You can tell she cares about you and Corpse so much, much like the rest of the members in the call who second her question, all with the same amount of concern.

“Well...“ You press your lips in a thin line as you compose coherent sentences in your head, “You see, there’s a small detail about me that I’ve been keeping from you since day one. It’s not something I go around telling people but considering I’m about to reveal it in front of tens of thousands of viewers, I guess it’s no longer gonna be a secret...“ You pause for a second, waiting for the words to string themselves together into sensible statements. Your anxiety is bubbling up but is still at a low enough level for your body to not shut down. “I have this ailment - Selective Mutism. It’s a form of anxious reaction that manifests in the loss of ability to speak in certain situations and places or around certain people. And I do wanna point out that I’ve been getting the hand of it more and more every year and has been less and less of a problem as I get older, but it was a real hinderance when I was a child. However, when put into situations like meeting new people in person outside of my workplace is a setup for the perfect trigger to cause my voice to fail me and for my brain to run out of words. And I REALLY don’t want that to happen, especially not around any of you. I’d do anything to meet you guys, be able to give you a hug and thank you all for changing my life for the better but at this time in my life I’m not going to be able to do that. So, I’m asking you to be patient with me and don’t worry, you’ve each got a booked hug, I’ve got a strict list so no one will be left out, I promise.“

Corpse pulls you closer, placing a kiss on your cheek as you slowly start to calm yourself down with an efficient breathing exercise that has proven to help you most of the times you feel overwhelmed.

“Y/N, why didn’t you tell us?“ Poki asks solemnly.

“Yeah, why didn’t you? We should’ve known.“ Charlie butts in the conversation as well, making you bite your lip thinking Corpse might’ve been wrong after all.

“You’re talking about the hugs, aren’t you?“ Poki asks him in a very unimpressed tone.

“Of course I am! And you’re not?“ He retorts diplomatically, causing you to wheeze out a laugh more thanks to the relief than the humor of his comment.

“Yeah so am I.“ She replies with a giggle.

“Like, imagine how much happier I’d be every morning knowing that I’ll inevitably receive a hug from Y/N one day. You should’ve told me, Y/N!“ Charlie complains.

Your eyes crinkle at the corners as you find yourself smiling from the bottom of your heart after the longest time of handling the weight of knowing this would have to be dealt with sooner or later. You never thought it would be this easy. But then again, with these people, just about everything is easy.

“It was supposed to be a surprise!“ You reply defensively, while holding back a rumbling laugh of relief and pure joy. “You guys should know I’m full of surprises and expect them by now!“

“Hmm...“ Toast for a second, “Yeah, you’ve got a point.“

“No, you don’t!“ Poki says, still on Charlie’s side of the discussion, “You may be known for throwing us on loops every now and then, but you are still probably the most unpredictable person I’ve ever met.“

“I’m not sure if you mean that as a compliment but I’ll take it as one.“ You reply, quietly sniffling. You feel Corpse run a finger over your cheek and only then notice a tear had slipped your eye. A happy tear.

After a bit of the witty banter died down, you were left feeling like a whole new person. Refreshed, happier and more like yourself than you’ve felt in a long while. It was so uplifting to read Corpse’s chat as well, all the lovely comments coming in at the speed of light had you shedding a few more tears while you were at it. However, nothing could even come close to comparing to all the love and support you got from your friends. It felt like it made up for all the hardships you’ve ever been through as a result of your ailment, although you no longer see it that way really. It’s more of an obstacle that you have to jump over - an obstacle which gets lower and lower as time passes and it becomes increasingly easier to hop over it, especially when you’ve learned to jump so high.

“Ok, ok, jokes aside...” Rae’s voice takes over the VC the way the sound of a fork hitting a glass would make as a beginning to an actual speech at a dinner table, “Y/N, I speak on behalf of everyone present and every friend who failed to attend today’s stream - probably for all the viewers too - when I say that no wait is too long. Take all the time you need and don’t even think about rushing the process. You have us always, virtually and otherwise. If you ever need us, we’ll be on the road or on a plane over and that will not change regardless of whether we’ve met you before or not. We’ll be there when you want or need us, we’re always here, and you’ll forever be our friend. One day, no matter how far or near to the present, we’ll get those hugs. We’ll be patient, don’t you worry, but I’m asking you to please be patient with yourself as well.

The second you and Rae had met, you established a very strong connection that ran to a very deep level but you never thought it would run that deep down to the point of telepathy. Turns out you’re not the only one full of surprises.

“Thanks, Rae. Thank you all for being my friends and for being such wonderful people. You’re the light in so many people’s lives, including mine, and you all make this planet a better place. I cannot thank you enough.“ You say as a fresh pour of tears warms your cheeks.

Your words warm and melt the hearts of the members in the lobby as well as the ones of the viewers which are sending all types of emotions your way through the variety of emojis in Corpse’s chat.

Feeling your boyfriend’s arms tighten their hold on you, you’re reminded of his presence and feel slightly guilty that you momentarily forgot. You look down at him with glossy but smiling eyes to match the soft smile your lips have curved into.

“That wasn’t so hard, was it?“ He asks, voice just above a whisper after he mutes his mic.

You lean down, fitting your head in the crook of his neck as his curls tickle your cheeks and forehead.

“Nope...“ You say with a small giggle, pausing for a second before tilting your head just enough to kiss his jaw, “And I have you to thank the most for everything.“

His warm lips come in contact with your forehead in a comforting kiss, “Nothing to thank me for, babe. Your happiness means the world to me. You mean the world to me.”

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nicoforlifetrue · 3 years

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I think I've seen this film before (and I liked the ending)

He remembers when he was taken.

He remembers fighting and flailing and trying desperately to get back to his friends, to get away because he didn't know what was happening.

He remembers the faint tap of something to his side and the visions of his worst nightmares that forced him to be quiet.

He remembers kneeling and listening to words, being told that he had the privilege of being a watcher, being told his new name.

He remembers the urge to scream and fight, wanting to lash out, but being too terrified to do anything.

He remembers watching as a thick fluid was forced down his throat and thinking he was choking.

He remembers being watched by two beings as the pain started; pain was an old friend to him, but this, this feeling was brand new, and he didn't know if he would survive it as he felt the familiar heat of cut muscle start to rise…

…But he remembers one stepped forward.

One with soft blond hair that peeked out from the hood, who carefully held his head in their lap and ran fingers through his hair and rubbed between his shoulder blades— silent unlike the other two, silent but so viscerally there, their warmth clashing against the cold of the room as his back lit up with fire.

He remembers the two leaving just as two lines of lava erupted deep in his spine, he remembers the one holding him, running a thumb along the side of the lines and gently pushing in; he remembers that made the pain just a little bit lighter, just a little bit less breaking.

He remembers as the lines started to push, forcing their way to the surface of his skin, and he remembers how he’d started screaming as the inside of his back tore and he slammed his eyes shut.

He remembers the soft press of fingers on his back alleviating the pain the smallest fraction— he remembers the force moving the feeling to go faster— he remembers his head laying on a chest, listening to a soft steady heart and long deep breaths that he found himself mimicking, the two hands carefully massaged his back.

He remembers the sound of his own back tearing open as a new sensation flooded his mind, new limbs he didn't know how to work dripping blood and gore onto the floor.

He remembers the pain of new nerves and bones exposed to the cold air, he remembers the only thing grounding him being the heart beat and those hands moving from his back to his hair, carding through it as the pain slowly faded to a dull, unpleasant throb.

He remembers shakily joking that at least the worst was done with; he remembers them not answering, simply gripping him tighter.

A silent warning that he recognized.

‘It's not over yet.’

The next burn was one he had a few vital seconds to prepare for, not screaming that time as his gut suddenly felt like it was being rearranged, instead biteng into his lip so hard it bled as he tried to focus on the heartbeat in his ears instead of the sounds of something in his body moving, tried to fixate on the hands in his hair instead of the shifting in his gut.

When the pain faded after what felt like hours— when he felt himself lifted yet kept close to this person's chest, the steady, calm heartbeat grounding him from the lingering soreness and the burn in his back— he wanted to ask again, ask the one that had stayed if they were done with him.

They didn't answer.

Instead they honored him by washing his back of his own blood and gore, gentle hands stitching the gashes in his back closed.

“So you're like the medic of this little operation then?” he had asked. “You're required to patch me up before forcing me through another round of torment.”

He remembers watching the person freeze, clearly handmade bandages half wrapped around Grian’s torso, the mask hiding their eyes but the faintest flick of a frown flashing across their lips for a split second.

And he remembers them shaking their head twice, answering both his questions silently.

He remembers them carrying him around for a while, until the last pangs had stopped.

He remembers them re-teaching him how to walk with the new appendages on his back.

He remembers them showing him how to preen, letting Grian stumble and pull on their feathers before he tried to do it on his own.

He remembers them shoving him off the side of a building into the void, his terror for those few vital moments as he froze, how they had grabbed him before the void had swallowed him. He had asked why and they’d said nothing, just pushed him again— and this time he had understood as instead of freezing in fear (they would catch him, he knew that now) he started to struggle in the air as his wings moved on their own.

He thinks there was pride in that blank expression when he shot up with fluttering wings.

He would mutter under his breath around them, about how something was unfair, morally wrong, how something was right. They wouldn't do anything, but he thinks at times they nodded— a small, barely noticeable nod.

They would correct him gently, and after he had flinched away from their hands during the first staff training they shifted him with the stick; kind, careful, aware, as if they knew.

He didn't trust them, and at times he found himself hating them.

Until they weren't there.

“Aeipra will be unable to train you for a short while,” a higher up informed him, his mentor at their side. “Lerva will fill in until they return, understood?”

Lerva was high up enough in the chain to speak.

Lerva followed the rules, apparently.

The staff caused nightmares— awful, horrid nightmares meant to break the soul… his mentor never used their staff on him.

They apparently were meant to.

He’d felt like he was breaking quite quickly, this new mentor was downright cruel.

Where his would silently encourage questions, was invested in Grian’s opinions for all their apathy, this one seemed set on getting rid of them, and any sort of sound would receive him his worst memories on loop.

Where his mentor was kind in their corrections, gentle and carefu,. this one was cruel, any mistake receiving punishment.

Where his mentor for their silence was warm and understanding, this one in their words berated him and tore him down.

“Have they not trained you at all?” the new one would spit, “or are you just defiant, hm?”

There was a hidden threat there, one he caught onto quite quickly. He was given leniency for being so young, his mentor's gentleness would be treated far more harshly.

When they returned, their gentle and large wings stretching to shadow him, he didn't scoff for once; after all, how much had his mentor risked for Grian’s own comfort?

“You hate me,” were the first words his mentor ever spoke to him, the words raspy from disuse, the tone willfully blank.

‘I hate what you are’ he found himself thinking in his shock. “I don’t,” he had said instead.

After that, words— though far and few between— came despite the clear breaking of rules… and he learned things.

He learned that the other liked to fly, not for speed but freedom; he learned the smallest changes in their tone and the slightest change in their wings.

They became a figure he never really had in his life.

A parent of sorts.

They shared his own joy of chaos, that joy slipping through painstakingly-crafted walls at times, teaching him small tricks that could never be traced back to them that would cause the smallest ripples in the still pond around them.

They shared his joy of flight, showing him tricks and dives, teaching him how to adapt those tricks from his mentor's large swooping wings for his own smaller fluttering ones, a glider vs a sprinter they had whispered to him when he asked.

They shared his joy of building, playing elaborate games easily disguised as training of tricks and perspective, learning new items and fun ways to use them.

They understood his want for life, to live and enjoy and steal away little moments of heaven for himself.

They knew him better than anyone else, despite not knowing a lick of his story.

Seeing them go back was what hurt.

On that one time, because night and day were nothing it was always just time, as they hurried him awake— saying nothing as they grabbed him and tugged him along— twisting through corridors and shoving him through a sputtering portal.

It was a blur after that, of flying and twisting and portal nausea.

And when they finally stopped, as they gave him that soft smile, the one of reassurance and safety, his heart dropped.

“No no no come on no stay please—” he knows he's begging as he grips onto their robe. “We’re out- stay- please, they'll kill you if you go back, please—” because his mentor could be killed, his mentor wasn't immortal like he was.

With soft hands (too soft, artificially soft, meant to be covered in calluses and stained with soot) they take the hand clinging to them, rubbing soft circles in it as they smile.

“Goodbye my child,” they whisper to him as they drop his hand and spread their wings.

And he can't follow, he can't chase after the only parental figure he ever had, because he has to hide, he's free and they are not. He can’t follow because then, what would their life have been worth?

So he hides.

----

#watcher phil #watcher grian #philza #grian #1/10 #the finch fanfic

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unfortunatelysage · 3 years

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I hope I’m not rewording some people’s previous takes but I definitely have a few g/t opinions of my own

• we could debate representation of m/f whatever till the sun goes down but where are the disabled/fat/poc/nb characters? It doesn’t have to be a plot point but like these people exist.

• mental health is such an excellent topic to discuss with g/t since it can be drastically altered by an interaction like that but it’s always limited to “oh no I saw a big scary giant and I was scared but now they’re gone so I’m okay again”. Let characters be majorly permanently affected by such an experience- even giants.

• fearplay is okay!!! I cannot allow g/t to be 100% fluff when a power imbalance such as that is so interesting. Let your giant be an asshole, it’s good for a character to have dimension.

• let tinies be mean too. Tell off a giant and stand your ground when they try to intimidate you back into submission. Let tinies be meaner than giants sometimes.

• unlikable characters are more realistic than perfect ones with no flaws. Let your tiny be stubborn and your giant be rude.

• perhaps it’s just me overanalyzing but tinies get infantilized a bizarre amount. Just because they’re smaller doesn’t mean they’re a widdle babey now. (this is alright if a giant mistakes their age but is eventually CORRECTED)

• I actually like borrower stories still, sorry. However I wish they were more exciting. I want a genuine threat of death and a real thwarting of it that could only be done by someone as agile as a borrower.

• END IT with the rpf. idrc if you make a gt oc who has everything similar to your favorite mcyt but their name. Just don’t make it that person. I’ll have a way better time reading about your new oc, SlommyPinnit

• I think a lot of interesting interactions can be done between just tinies or just giants in a g/t situation but it’s usually one on one which is a shame, but that’s definitely personal preference and I’m not expecting a change there

• this is me just reiterating that fearplay is okay, you’ll know when you’ve crossed a genuine boundary and if your giant is too mean just make sure they’re described fully as EVIL, even if they don’t get their comeuppance.

• also let people die, everyone wants a man eating giant but no giant wants to eat a man. fascinating🤔

Hi I’m adding something this is an edit: I am not intending to start/add to discourse. I don’t think I’m a better or worse writer than anyone else, morally or competently. Everyone’s got their thing here and that’s what makes this community a good place to do what ya want. That’s it thank you

#sorry if people disagree #I’ve just had these thoughts on my mind forever #g/t

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kuromichad · 3 years

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the main thing that bugs me about ao3 discourse is i just. i never see anyone lay out what they actually Want from ao3 besides 'delete everything i think is bad' like theres no. sense of practicality? what exactly do you want added to the tos. what is the exact expected process for reporting fics and evaluating those reports. disclaimer before anyones like 'Oh so youre unilaterally defending them' i do extremely think they should at the least not allow rpf of irl minors. but when it comes to enforcing policies that aren't related to like, laws, i just wonder how you expect it to work... should they just delete anything/anyone who gets reported a lot, like plenty of sites do? then people are gonna exploit that system and get people mass reported over petty shit, just like on twitter. should there be a moderation team instead? who picks that team? who's on that team? what if the team makes decisions you don't like?

especially when you're talking about creating some kind of policy for 'eliminating racist content,' like-- what counts? i'm guessing that like, troll works that are just a wall of slurs already get deleted (if they don't then they should be because that's pretty simple) but like. who decides what's 'bad enough' to merit outright deletion? if it's done by volume of reports, wouldn't that essentially be arbitrary moderation because it depends on a random group of people who potentially all have different problems with a fic and those problems can vary wildly in severity? like, what about when it comes down to nuances of how a character is treated? dramas like we had with finnpoe discourse, where either character topping might invoke different racist tropes, so how does one walk the line and how do you cope with how not everyone who attempts to walk it will be successful?

i saw one post giving the example of a fic that just like, rewrote the events of last year's protests to be set in the transformers universe, and yeah that's tasteless, there's been offensive 'current events' fic happening for a long time and it sucks. but should there be an explicit ban on that genre? how would that clause be worded? does Everyone agree that it's something that's impossible to do tastefully? if a black person does want to work through their feelings on current events through fanfiction, is that still banned because it's presumably impossible to do well, or should it be allowed because they have the right perspective? do they have to meet a certain standard of 'doing it right', and who evaluates that? and how are ao3 moderators supposed to know or believe they have that perspective? (we've already seen people racefaking to get 'permission' to write tacky racist fic just due to social pressures. imagine the lengths people will go to if their work or account is on the line.)

like-- sorry if this is a gauche comparison but since it's something i'm familiar with and able to speak on. what if the next wave of criticism is 'ao3 needs to crack down on transphobic content'? how will you define that, beyond 'delete fake fics that are just slurs'? would entire tags like omegaverse, or 'boypussy' and 'girl!penis', or even 'genderbend' get deleted? what about trans authors using those tags? do we become the only ones allowed because we can do it 'correctly'? how do we deal with the fact that not all trans people agree on what's 'correct'. like i don't think genderbending is inherently transphobic, it's down to individual choices and portrayals. same with omegaverse, same even with 'boypussy/girl!penis', since like. people might take issue with the entire premise of 'characters have this type of body and it just doesn't like, mean anything' as being fetishizing of trans bodies/erasure of trans experience and i sympathize with that. i'm not certain where i fall on the matter either, it's very much a case by case thing.

so then, how do you moderate that? do we get rid of those tags because someone decided nobody can use them responsibly or should like the premise at all? again, do we appoint moderators to decide when an idea is handled 'correctly' and again, who are the moderators? what happens when they make a decision you don't like? how do you distinguish between fic with a 'wrong' premise and fic with an 'okay' premise that is executed imperfectly and leads to interpretations or implications that upset people, especially when many fic writers are young and amateurs? should someone who made mistakes be punished with deletion just as much as someone who, like, intentionally wrote character-bashing/abuse fic for racist/transphobic/etc reasons?

like, none of what i'm asking here is supposed to be applied to general discussion of these subjects, it's not like i think offensive content should never be taken down, i'm not pulling some kind of 'everything Could be offensive so actually nothing is' or 'if they didn't mean to then it doesn't count' or anything like that. but we aren't talking about interpersonal discussions, or the handling of mass media, or anything like that. we're specifically talking about the concept of 'just delete everything that's offensive and exploitative' and how that would potentially be implemented. because ao3 is not a person who said something tasteless on twitch and can be reasoned with and led to make an apology. ao3 is a website hosting all sorts of ideas from millions of users, specifically in the form of fiction, and the way fiction conveys biases and shapes people's thinking is itself a really fucking complicated subject, and people are trying to demand that they try to tame that massive volume of content from different people in very specific ways, with no suggestion of how to actually go about doing that.

i know you think 'delete the stuff thats obviously bad' is a simple principle but it's literally not because no two people will ever 100% agree on what's 'obviously bad', particularly in this case because people don't consistently agree on whether depiction always equals endorsement AND it's so difficult to reliably tell whether depiction that seems to be endorsed was intended to be endorsed. so again, the primary, most practical options for 'delete things that are bad' are to either delete everything that anyone reports for any reason or to have moderators that make flawed human choices. i just want to feel like any of the people making 'ao3 bad' posts have actually like, considered that, and have some sort of opinion on which one it should be, if theyre gonna fight about this.

and, yknow, if they did have to hire a massive team of additional moderators to actually read every fic and take the time to make subjective decisions about whether it's offensive... they would need to pay those people... and they would still need donations. so lmao.

im not saying like 'youre not allowed to want things to change' like there's definitely room for improvement but. please god. start explaining what you want those changes to be because 'delete everything i personally think is bad' is not a moral imperative or a coherent category or a helpful suggestion in the least, if you think with your brain and not your gut instinct of disgust.

#and i genuinely dont even have the energy to get into the donations thing more like #yeah literally there are more important things to send money to than a fanfiction site. but #the like mindset people are advocating for. of constantly being aware and like living in penance for the fact that there's always people wh #and always bad things happening and all of this is Your Fault through inaction or 'wrong' actions that prioritize yourself #is just. its not healthy bro. it really sucks

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littlewetbeast · 3 years

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hey rosa :) hope it's okay if i ask this. i'm kind of new to cockles things so i've been doing some "research" lol. i'm kind of asking around the fandom for opinions. do you actually think it's real? what convinced you? thanks and hope you are doing ok!

hey anon!! of course it is!! you’re welcome to send me as many asks as you’d like. putting this under a readmore because it got kinda long.

so - this is kind of awkward i guess, but i’ll get right into it. i have always steered clear of any form of rpf and tinhatting. this stuff is still... a little bit weird to me. the whole “i don’t do rpf but why are jensen and misha like That” is a running joke in the cockles fandom for a reason and i’m 100% part of that crowd. this is the only instance i have engaged in this type of fandom content. i don’t even really “ship” them, i just enjoy gifs, videos and some fandom discussion, i guess? not saying this gives me some moral high ground, i just want to give some perspective. i only very, very recently started watching cons and like. i guess i just never realised how insanely well they got along? the energy is just off the charts. i figured they were like this with everyone but it was quickly clear that this was a Them thing, which is - kind of sweet. i’d kind of scoffed before at people suggesting jensen had a crush on misha but i thought it was embarrassingly obvious after watching their interactions. what i will say, from my own pov, is that even if certain suspicions are correct - that jensen and misha ARE indeed in an open, loving, poly relationship - it is very unlikely they will ever publicly confirm this. THAT, to me, would be needed to confirm that it’s “real”. and that’s never going to happen, because #society. so i always try to keep myself grounded in that i am kind of making some observations about some celebrities and trying to consume what they give us in a respectful way, and just enjoying seeing how lovely they are with one another. so i will say - rather than arguing whether it is “real” or not - that i instead consider that there are things they have done/things i’ve seen which simply make more sense if they are in a relationship. it doesn’t really bother me if i’m mistaken, because they’re still providing me with some sweet, sweet serotonin in these difficult times. win/win either way. THAT SAID... i’ll tell you what i struggle to find bff-only explanations for.

i’ll just start off by sending you some stuff in case you want to look it up. i think a good place to start is @livebloggingmydescentintomadness‘s cockles manifesto here. NOW... i will say there is a lot of evidence (in my opinion) such as the ‘near kisses’, clothes swapping, performative flirting, etc. that i felt maaaaybe could suggest something, but it didn’t convince me. if you’re insane, you can browse the j2 tinhatting theories and compare - a lot of friendly behaviour jensen does is something he does with his close friends in general. so it often felt too circumstantial and could be explained away. so i’ll start with that, so you know where i am at.

the thing that made me really raise my eyebrows the first time was, after watching misha and jensen interact like They Do, seeing how jared reacted to them. he loves innuendo and does the gay chicken/fratboy gay humour all the time. but there are numerous cases where his face is SO exasperated when jensen openly gushes about misha and where he makes slight jabs at jensen regarding misha. the first time i saw it i was like - oh, that’s how i tease my friends in a relationship. okay.

one thing that stands out to me is his look of contained panic at someone mentioning photos jensen has of misha and asking to ‘release them’, and then the VISIBLE ‘oh thank fuck’ when they clarify. LIKE WHAT. WHY. why is he reacting like this if they’re just?? you know?

if you watch jibcon 2019, after the straddlegate incident, he WILL NOT stop making gay jokes towards misha and jensen - to the point where they get extremely uncomfortable, i have some Feelings about this that i may elaborate on later. like. he just will not stop. it just goes waaay beyond his typical fratboy gay jokes.

there are other things too, to be honest, but i think eventually it just became the sum of a lot of things. the fact that jensen and misha have extremely explicit queer inside jokes? that jensen got a boner from being straddled by him? i mean. sigh. it’s either bi4bi best friends with-intimate-knowledge-of-each-other’s-sex-lives OR it’s. you know. something more than that.

those are probably the things that have swayed me the most. there are a lot of other things that added to this, and if you slide some cockles goggles on you start to see a lot of behaviour that make you go, ‘huh, if they are in a relationship it sure would explain [this] and [this] and [this]’. that’s all i’ll say.

#sorry this got soooooo long #rosa answers #cockles ask #jenmish #cockles #gunshots

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catgirl-catboy · 3 years

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Alrighty then, strap in lol /j

Before we start this is all just out of pure curiosity and I mean no harm by it. If I ask a question that you don’t want to answer or anything of that nature do not feel obligated to answer it. The last thing I want to do is make you feel uncomfortable when the situation of an anti and a proshipper talkings is already a bit awkward in itself lol

I’m gonna start by just… stating my views on everything? You could respond by correcting me based on what you believe is true or just state your opinions as well. Or just go off on a tangent that’s cool too it’s up to you haha

I firmly believe that nobody should be sent shit like death threats over fiction because at the end of the day they are just concepts, BUT I don’t believe “problematic shipping” should be encouraged. I could care less if someone shipped a ‘toxic’ relationship, if it’s two consenting adults then it really doesn’t matter. However, I do believe a line is crossed once things like pedophilia and incest get involved. Children should never be viewed in a sexual light, fictional or not, and I believe that one’s opinion on this topic says a ton about them. Things like lolisho are illegal in certain parts of the world, and debatable in others which, to me, makes sense. It’s still CP, even if it doesn’t involve actual children, and I believe creators and consumers of such content should face some form of punishment. Considering that, on paper, it doesn’t hurt anyone, it should probably be a fine or something. That part isn’t important, I’m just trying to make the point that I do not believe that kodocons are as vile as pedophiles, but theyre both equally as creepy. Viewing children in a sexual light, like I said, should not be tolerated under any circumstances; no ‘if,’ ‘ands,’ or ‘buts’ about it.

And when it comes to the other topic, IRL incest can never be consensual and is always abusive whether someone wants to admit it or not, so somebody having a fixation on incestuous relationships in their fantasies is something that should be criticized lol.

I am open to discussion. I know sites like twitter and such discourage nuance but uh… fuck twitter lol I’m doing this anyway

ooooh! Honestly, I'm so hyped for this discussion. :). Heres a read-more since it got kinda long. (Seriously, go finish the thing you are procrastinating on before reading lol)

Allow me to first state my definition on common terms, since I know people disagree about definitions. Heres what I'm working under.

Anti- A person would like platforms like tumblr and ao3 to ban content. Some antis take matters into their own hands by making blocklists and taking other measures. This content is often problematic but doesn't have to be.

Proshipper- A person who thinks that such content shouldn't be moderated. They can despise the content as much as an anti would, the defining factor is that they don't trust the platform or the platform's users to moderate it.

To be clear, neither of those refer to actual child pornography or "content" like revenge porn. I don't want to talk to people that think it does.

A second counterpoint, assholery has nothing to do with these definitions. There are dicks in both groups, so we can't use them to define either group.

In my definition, RPF is a bit murkier because there's an expectation that people are going to ship and write fiction for a celebrity. They knew this going in. It's totally valid to not want to be shipped, but they are maybe in the wrong career field. However, writing NSFW of actual minors (I believe) falls into CSEM, and I'm morally against it. For an IRL example, picture a musician who doesn't want any covers of their songs, and stuff like that.

Before I get into expanding on your points, I'd like to share exactly what I ship. Have all cards on the table, you know?

- I mostly ship toxic/abusive ships, but not in aus that completely change the dynamic. Its like studying a nature documentary to me, but I'd never want to be in the position of either of the characters.

- I also tend to ignore fanon sexualities, which gets me some hate. I ship whatever makes a good story.

- I have two incest ships. One wasn't revealed to be related until the end, by which I already shipped it and chose not to stop. The other one has the same complicated dynamic at my toxic ships, so I'd like it exactly the same if the two weren't related.

- I have one minor/adult ship. Mostly because the series was really unclear with its ages, so I thought it was 18 x 23ish when in actuality... it wasn't.

- I don't consume loli/shota content, but I'm okay with interacting with fans of it.

- I have zero RPF ships. Not my thing.

- I don't selfship, or ship my OCs with canon.

To preface my rebuttal (pfft butt), I would like to know your thoughts on what exactly constitutes a minor by your terms. My main problem your lolicon argument is that I've seen a million different definitions of 'minor' from antis. How could such a law be enforced if everyone had a slightly different definition?

Pedophilia is illegal and morally disgusting because children can't consent. They simply don't know enough about the world. Meanwhile, both the reader and writer consent in loli. As long as its tagged correctly, nobody gets exposed to it when they are not looking for it. If a proshipper doesn't tag their shit right, they need to fix it. If they don't they are a dick. If we are using the layman's (not the government's) definition of CP, I agree with you that it is CP. I personally don't wanna go anywhere near it. But no minors are being exploited in the making of this material, so legally...

In addition to it being near impossible to enforce due to no solid definition, I highly doubt a rule like that would be enforced in the way you are thinking. I've never seen someone argue Tumblr staff is competent. I doubt doing it by site would be practical, so it would probably have to be at an international level. The government isn't cracking down on CSEM hard enough. That has to be the first priority.

I don't really want to get this blog involved in the IRL incest debate. Its fucked up, but harassing people over it is also fucked up. When a serious problem comes up, you should call the police and let them handle that.

#polite debate tag #honestly grinning while writing this god I miss debating people #proshippers please interact #pro fiction #pro ship #pro shippers #pro ship safe #tagging this as anti anti seems rude #anyone can interact or ask!

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mariaiscrafting · 3 years

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I’m the anon about fanfic and fanart. I just want to say that I’m fine with analysis when they talk about how dnf react to each other when they say or do something but don’t really like how they bring that point into their relationship. It’s one thing to me to say they have a flirty friendship but insisting that they have something more in private bothers me. I always thought that fanfiction and fanart are ways to analyze creators or dynamics so I was curious on what you thought of them. Fans always project things onto creators they like so they make things arolving them. I know you’re worried about how this can strain the content creators and other fandoms, but establishing boundaries is important and it was already addressed by the Dream Team themselves so I don’t see why you have to go out of your way to tell dnf shippers to not to analyze them. I’m not here to hate you but wanting to understand how making a call out post to tell dnf shippers to not to psychoanalizing interactions instead of trying to put more of a distance between yourself and the blogs without putting them down. On Twitter, there was a tweet that misinterpreted Dream and George’s first meeting and Dream corrected them but never condemned them for shipping. He also said in many tweets and said in stream that just how they are and said that fans are allowed to do what they want when it comes to them. Also liking a fan tweet where #Dreamfell was dnf related even though the situation didn’t need to be. Twitter is directly involved with the creators themselves so of course it’s hard to ignore. Even then in Twitter you can still mute words. I’m here for a conversation and not out hate. This is Tumblr where it’s mostly Fandom focused and some dnf shippers like to analyze to project whatever onto them so if we don’t want to see it, asking for a tag so you can block it here. Like #dng long post or just block the analysis tag. We’re all responsible to create our own fandom experience so I don’t want to call fans disgusting when they haven’t done anything wrong since Dream had stated He’s fine with it. I don’t want you to feel excluded in the dnf side of Tumblr since you still find the ship nice, but if you don’t want the long analysis posts since it feels morally wrong to you then we can try to agree on separating the casual and the analytical side of dnf. Your feelings towards dnf blog analysises are valid so your fandom experience should be catered to.

I am actually half delirious while answering this, so Imma keep it short and simple.

I do cater my own tumblr experience to what I want. I do block people who post stuff I don't like so I don't see it in the tags. All your advice is nice, but unnecessary.

I think that I should be allowed to criticize circles that I am in in the hopes that they will approve and shift what they consider the norm. Yes, Dream said that he is okay with shipping and has engaged with it and panders to the audience with it. But to take anyone's green light on any issue involving their personal lives, and to run rampantly with it is still fucked.

And look, I don't think I've properly articulated why I call this behavior disgusting. I want to emphasize that I view it as dehumanizing. To reduce a person's behaviors and tendencies to whatever vicarious romantic gratification you can get from them is an appalling act, devoid of empathy. It exemplifies the commodification of CCs for the audience's sole entertainment and that audience's lack of basic respect for them or acknowledgement that they are real life human beings who function beyond whatever romantic framework you fantasize them in. I keep bringing up this example, I know, but it's what incited this whole discourse for me in the first place, but that analysis of Dream's few seconds of silence as him focusing on George's voice because he's just so in love with him? That analysis, and the overwhelming consensus on that post perfectly exemplify just how dehumanizing this crossing of a line can be. It erases the conceptual space for any other, rational and non-romantic explanation for a few seconds of silence that could have easily been attributed to distraction, a moment to collect his thoughts, etc. It also perfectly exemplifies how, through the overanalysis, shippers force CCs into two-dimensional boxes that best fit their wants, devoid of nuance. In this instance, Dream is not a busy content creator who hasn't streamed very often for the past few months and might be readjusting to consistently talking in front of a live audience, or a young adult with ADHD whose brain jumps from point to point in its search for dopamine, or literally any other kind of human being with multiple characteristics and personality traits influencing his behaviors; he is a prop for our self-idulgent ship. I'm reading way too much into this one example, I know, but I just want to also say that this is like a much higher problem than just one post. I don't care about the content of one fucking post, I care about what that post and the methods of analysis employ imply about the rest of dnf shippers. This community is following behaviors that are concerning, and this is just one example of hundreds that exemplify that.

Projection is fine. Projection is employed in RPF fanfictions, character headcanons, different fanart styles - it's all over the mcyt fandom and I don't have a problem with it. My PROBLEM is with people who act like their analyses of Dream and George and literally any other content creator are actually representative of reality. My problem is with people who don't understand that there is a difference between stanning and creating/consuming fan content for a creator's persona, and theorizing about what that creator's actual character as a real life human being is.

Okay, also, I might just be getting more irritable because it's 2 am and I want to be asleep, but I actually do have a problem with you essentially saying that a preferred solution for me is to simply cut myself off from half the community. Basically, I should just plug my ears and shield my eyes if I see problematic content I am morally against? Fuck off, mate. There are many, many things I choose not to start discourse on and simply block or mute because I don't care enough to try and change it. But dnf shipping is something that I actively engage with, is kind of a significant part of my online presence and experience, and also a way I've made a lot of friends in this community. So yeah, I have a vested interest in making sure it doesn't go down the same, fucked paths I've seen other shipping communities go down, and if that means making a discourse post that makes you uncomfortable, I suggest you block me.

I'm not advocating for this fandom to partition up based on what we all think is right and wrong. I want integration of different ideas, useful discourse, and self-growth. And none of that is solved by creating a separate hashtag

#asks #why did i answer this rn im so tired #also not proofreading this v sorry in advance #discourse #just btw im.prolly not answering any more anons on this line of questioning #if you want to send a public ask or just @ me go ahead and we can beefpublicly #but otherwise nah this is taking up too much of my time and mental fortitude #/neg

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dazedandlucid · 3 years

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hi! i got a question abt fic writing: what are your thoughts on giving fic characters bad traits (i.e. being a cheater)? bc i remember back then there was a harry styles fic that got criticized bc he was a whole ass player who pushed the main girl around a lot. people kept saying he was a real person who didnt deserve to be given that image, but at the same time people defended it bc it was fan FICTION. is it okay? also would it be required to give the character a redemption arc?

cw: discussions of abuse in fiction, though not explicitly

*referring to harry styles as hs for brevity

the thing about after is, it’s not just “bad traits” but traits of an abusive toxic controlling character. it’s the “broody emo damaged badboy” on steroids. this archetype is as old as time and it’s almost always boring unless you’re trying to deconstruct it or say something with its portrayal. or at the bare minimum, are a good writer? on paper, there’s nothing inherently wrong with writers, female or otherwise, exploring this character, even as a purely porn fantasy, which after obviously is. when you add rpf to the mix, that’s when it gets dicey, because as much as it should be treated as a fully separate entity from the actual people depicted, there is a huge difference between your random fanfic sitting forever on wattpad and you taking that fic, barely changing it so what it originally was is still pretty clear, and then completely commodifying the bastardization of another human being’s public persona and making a shit ton of money off of that commodification. after is not the mortal instruments where, unless you were already in the know, you had no idea it was originally draco/harry fanfiction. nothing about its marketing or general buzz ever mentioned hp (as far as i remember but please correct me if i’m wrong! obviously the internet wasn’t back then what it is now. and draco and harry aren’t real people just someone else’s ip, but hopefully you get my point). after is known as the hs fanfic, it is part of its -nebulous but still there- marketing. as much as after does not truly represent anything about actual hs’ public persona or person, it has benefited from its association to him. other than the fact that rpf is inherently morally grey regardless of how respectful you try to write your characters, the profiteering off of someone else’s public persona, while not expressly illegal, adds to the already grey as fuck moral conundrum of it all. there’s also clear indication that hs was and is not comfortable with this and that alone should be enough to answer your question.

but instead of framing it as “is this okay” i think it’s more functional to frame it as “is this necessary?” and from my point of view, it’s not. these types of stories, regardless if fanfic or not, aren’t offering anything other than fantasy, and romanticize abuse. and while yes, a lot of consumers are aware of its toxicity and loudly point out that that’s “the point”, they don’t seem to be willing to think about why they want to romanticize these types of stories so badly. that said, the bad boy archetype is so for a reason. there’s something in a lot of people’s psyches, product of socialization or not, that attracts this type of character. for some, it truly is just a fantasy and escapism. but if fiction were just fiction, representation would not matter. lit crit/analisys would not be a thing. these types of stories are fiction, fantasy, but fiction, even hyper fantasy a la GOT, is a mirror to our societies. abuse is very much, even in fiction, not a fantasy.

#ask #anon

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benperorsolo · 5 years

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I actually wouldn’t be surprised if some antis wrote Rey off completely after TROS and tried to make it a Woke point like “Rey is actually the perfect example of white feminism because white women will always choose to ally with white men even fascist white men over POC” or something else that insensitively uses real-life social issues to harass strangers online. There was plenty of misogyny and disowning of Rey after TLJ in the anti community before the RPF and communal retconning kicked in.

I actually strongly suspect that they’re going to simultaneously cling to Rey as a symbol of True Morality while holding the opinion that Rey is a traitor. They seem to already exhibit these traits, where they have a sort of obsession with “fixing” or “correcting” (dare I say, “re-educating”) Rey’s actions in TLJ. Hence why TLJ is all about Rey (re)learning that Kyle Ron is an evil fascist mind-rapist and going back to the “right” people and the “right” opinions so she can go out and murder Kyle in TROS (to prove her worthiness of the antis’ ‘forgiveness’, ostensibly). It will just get worse after TROS with those antis who are the most militantly disconnected from reality, and I am sure they will collectively headcanon that TROS didn’t happen, or something.

#as i've said many times before antis are interested in the symbol of rey #rey as The Good Person #(because she's the hero)#they can only identify with Good People and must therefore identify with rey #and therefore if rey exhibits traits they disagree with they will edit her down until she ddoes again #because it's about the symbolism #asks #nonnie

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joannalannister · 7 years

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aurembiaix submitted:

Hi! I promise I’m not a Jaime’s redemption apologist but still wonder: what’s his degree of implication or intellectual authorship in the Lannister regime? He obviously profits from it, he killed Aerys, pushed Bran, attacked Ned’s men, fought Robb… but the two main Lannister war-crimes, raiding the Riverlands and the Red Wedding, were rather Tywin’s responsibility. To me, Jaime seemed an action man, ready to carry any of Tywin’s (or ocasionally Cersei’s) ideas without a second thought, but not exactly a plotter. He seemed content with his life as Robert’s guard, could he have urged Cersei to kill him? What do you think?

I believe Jaime is content to be the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard for life, but I don’t think he was involved in Cersei’s plan to get Robert killed. (Maybe I’ve forgotten something in the text, though?) That being said, I think Jaime would have happily killed Robert without a second thought if he felt he had cause. Even Robert believed Jaime would have killed him, given cause, which is why he never hit Cersei on the face.

Ned touched her cheek gently. “Has he done this before?”

“Once or twice.” She shied away from his hand. “Never on the face before. Jaime would have killed him, even if it meant his own life.“

What’s Jaime’s degree of implication or intellectual authorship in the Lannister regime?

What degree of implication do you assign to Erwin Rommel in the Nazi regime?

… um … this post is gonna get wild. Assume this post contains mentions of everything you might expect as soon as I bring up Nazis (possibly extremely triggering), as well as some things you aren’t expecting. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

For anyone who doesn’t know, Rommel was one of Hitler’s favorite generals, as well as a close personal friend. He “worshiped” Hitler.

(Rommel once said, “I have loved the Führer, and I still do.” According to historian Maurice Remy, Hitler and Rommel had “a dream marriage” and they talked enthusiastically on the phone for at least an hour everyday for a while discussing the latest technological advancements, so if anyone was looking for an idea for some WWII RPF slash, maybe in the manner of The Producers, well, there you go.

Rommel: “Marry me, Hitler. Stand up before the Reich and say it’s me you want.” Hitler: "I would, if I dared. But the Fatherland—” Rommel: “You’re Germany’s Führer, and yet you won’t be mine.” Hitler: “I want you at my side, I want you in my bed, I want you inside me. Nothing has changed between us. Let me prove it to you.” Don’t forget the pineapples.)

ANYWAYS, Rommel was an extremely popular general who “did everything in his power to make his country strong again” (Thomas Vogel). Rommel had a reputation for being “a chivalrous, humane, and professional officer” who romanticized and “desired to simulate the knights of the past, who also led from the front” [x]. He profited quite a lot from being so close to Hitler, though allegedly Rommel had no political ambitions and instead preferred the life of a soldier. (Is this reminding you of anyone we know? Because I’m getting there.) Many people argue that Rommel didn’t have “strong racial views”. He supposedly didn’t employ excessive uses of force. Rommel didn’t commit any war crimes that I know of.* Many people praise him as “one of the great captains of history.”

But no matter how ~clever~ and ~chivalrous~ and ~respected~ Rommel was, he was still a fuckin’ Nazi** who wanted to conquer North Africa and the Middle East for Hitler. If Hitler had gained control over the Middle East, especially Palestine but other countries too, a lot more Jewish people and other people Hitler considered “undesirable” would have been murdered.

(Gimme a time machine and a gun and a guarantee I won’t distroy the space-time continuum, and I’ll go punch Rommel and Hitler in the face before I shoot both of them.)

Rommel was still a fuckin�� Nazi, and Jaime is still a fuckin’ Lannister.

If you’re actively supporting a morally bankrupt regime, I don’t think it matters that you, personally, are not committing the war crimes.

If you’re working on behalf of horrible people, even if you yourself are not doing The Evil Thing, you’re enabling those regime leaders to do The Evil Thing.

Maybe Rommel didn’t personally believe in murdering Jewish people (debatable), but he still fought for Hitler. Rommel held off the Allies for a long time, which allowed Hitler to murder more people. So does it matter that Rommel didn’t author the Final Solution? Does it matter that Rommel wasn’t a rapist? Does any of that matter when the people you’re working for are committing evil acts, and you’re happy to work for them?

Like, this is really important to me, it’s something I’m addressing in my Lannister fascism essay, that you don’t have to be the idea man or the top brass to be responsible for the Evil that is happening. In WWII, SS officers shot people, and then they would go home to their wives, who would have dinner cooked and who would smile and comfort them and sympathize with what a ~difficult~ day the SS officer had ~~”cleansing”~~ the world of “undesirables” and maybe they would set out a clean uniform for hubby because the one he’s wearing got blood splattered on it. It’s sick.

Evil has a support system, and Evil has invisible labor (often done by women) that no one even thinks about. (Which is why, after WWII, a lot of people painted the women of Nazi Germany as innocent victims, instead of people who were actively contributing to Hitler’s Germany. There was only one Hitler, but there were millions of people who supported Hitler and worked very hard to keep him in power and carry out his ideas.)

So sure, Jaime wasn’t the first man into the Riverlands, but he was happy to pick up the fight. Maybe Jaime doesn’t believe in Cersei’s dwarf genocide, but he’s happy to keep Tommen on the Throne and Cersei in power, which allows Cersei to commit her dwarf genocide. And sure, Tywin orchestrated the Red Wedding so he gets the blame for it, but … look at what Jaime’s doing in AFFC/ADWD … he’s still acting as Tywin’s enforcer to make sure that the outcome of the Red Wedding is put into place, that the Freys get Riverrun and the Riverlands come under Lannister rule and any opposition is eliminated.

Sure, Jaime makes sure Riverrun falls bloodlessly. And some readers praise Jaime for this!! You know what else fell bloodlessly?? Austria, in 1938.

The Lannister Regime commits Evil acts.

It doesn’t particularly matter to me if The Evil Thing wasn’t Jaime’s idea, because Jaime actively chooses to do things that keep an Evil regime in power.

(And like … if we’re setting the bar at “Don’t commit war crimes,” that bar is so low, it’s not even on the floor, it’s under the floor.)

Although idk if I would argue that Jaime commits no war crimes. As you mention, Jaime murdered Ned’s men. Like, they’d effectively negotiated a peace between the two groups of combatants, and then Jaime ordered everyone but the enemy commander slaughtered. so idk, maybe not a war crime. Even if it’s not a war crime, it’s definitely a deplorable act committed on behalf of the Lannister regime to ~punish~ the Starks for arresting Tyrion. It reminds me of Joffrey punishing Sansa for Robb’s victories. Like father, like son.

And Jaime definitely played a major part in the Riverlands invasion:

“Your brother has been covering himself with glory,” his father said. “He smashed the Lords Vance and Piper at the Golden Tooth, and met the massed power of the Tullys under the walls of Riverrun. The lords of the Trident have been put to rout. Ser Edmure Tully was taken captive, with many of his knights and bannermen. Lord Blackwood led a few survivors back to Riverrun, where Jaime has them under siege. The rest fled to their own strongholds.”

Jaime didn’t have to participate in this unlawful invasion, but he chose to lead very significant battles.

So, to answer your question, I consider Jaime’s degree of culpability to be very high. No, he did not orchestrate the Red Wedding, but he remains, even in ADWD, Tywin’s top field commander, working to keep the Lannisters in power on a Throne which they have no right to hold. Even if Jaime is "just following orders,” that doesn’t excuse him from the horrors House Lannister has committed.

I wanna make sure everybody hears this from me: the things the Lannisters do are Evil. Tywin unquestionably commits war crimes like murdering babies. Cersei literally gives people to Dr. Mengele. Jaime subjugates whole kingdoms and puts them under Lannister rule. I scream at everyone that I love these characters, and I do, because these fictional constructs George has made are fascinating, but I want my thoughts on this on the record - the Lannisters commit evil acts. They’re bad people. I love them but they’re bad people.

That doesn’t mean that I’ve written the Lannisters off. Tyrion is actively against the Lannister regime now. Maybe Jaime will turn against the Lannister regime in what I call “Operation Valkyrie”.*** idk.

But right now, Jaime is very much a fuckin’ Lannister who will do everything in his power to keep Tommen on the Throne and to keep the Lannister regime strong.

*While I’ve always been very interested in WWII, I’m not a military historian and I hope someone will correct me if any of my WWII facts above are incorrect.

**Some people like to split hairs over this but I’m not gonna do that; if they fought for Hitler, they were a fuckin’ Nazi.

***Rommel was one of the people suspected in the 20 July Plot attempting to assassinate Hitler, and Hitler forced Rommel to commit suicide afterwards. But no, I don’t believe in the “Rommel myth” that Rommel was a great guy who was just a victim of the Third Reich. He was a fuckin’ Nazi!!!!! Like, what else needs to said, when someone’s a Nazi! They’re a Nazi!

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I’m not making a 1:1 parallel between Lannisters and Nazis -- I’m trying to discuss degrees of culpability, which was central to the question being asked. Culpability isn’t something that’s easily quantifiable, so instead I chose to examine this issue relatively.

#my blog is wild #i'll take incorrect jaime/cersei quotes for 1000 Alex #asoiaf #lannister thoughts #aurembiaix #replies #jaime lannister #submission #rommel #erwin rommel

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