#rvb discourse

[high-voltage-rat]

Okay rvb gang real talk for a sec. I think y'all should put a little more thought into the way you draw and characterize Captain Butch Flowers. Specifically with regards to the widely accepted facecanon having native-coded features.

Facecanons in rvb generally fall under 2 categories: the ones based off of information about the person's race and background we receive in the canon, and ones that are purely headcanon, based on vibes. For example, we're told Simmons is Dutch-Irish, so it's common to draw him as a white redhead. Tucker being black is as close to directly stated as we ever get re: any of the reds and blues' races. But Sarge is often drawn as a white man despite no information being given about his race- it's usually chosen by the headcanoner based off the vibes we get from his behaviour.

So when it comes to Flowers, let's think for a second about how the fandom generally interprets his character. In canon, we see him on blue team making his soldiers a bit uncomfortable with his overly familiar behaviour, having a cheerful and upbeat demeanour. We also see him in PFL working with Wyoming to do recon, then getting hit with a tomahawk, throwing it back at the enemy, and then using his grenade launcher to bring down a crane and kill chain guy and girl. Later he's in charge of choosing soldiers to place in blood gulch, where we see he has no problem feeding soldiers through the fodder machine and covering up for Freelancer- including essentially killing Jimmy. What we see in fandom, though, is a guy who is cheerfully menacing, casually hyperviolent, bubbly facade, likes knives, 'probably has a torture basement', etc.

So I would like us to think for a moment about why, exactly, people took those vibes, that interpretation of his character, with the more violent aspects overinflated, and decided to draw him with native-coded features. I would like us all to take a second and consider the connotations behind the pile of art out there where a brown man with long dark hair in a braid is splattered in blood. To me, this particular choice just feels like another "native s*vage" trope, and I think it has really not been thought through.

Indigenous headcanons in rvb are admittedly pretty difficult. Rvb is a problematic media through and through, and there's always going to be something offensive in the way a character is portrayed. I myself hc the Grifs as kānaka maoli, due to them being from Hawai'i and Kaikaina's name- but between Grif's laziness and Kai's hypersexuality, it definitely falls into some other offensive stereotypes about indigenous people, and particularly native Hawaiians.

But to me, the distinguishing thing is that these are facets of their characters that have something deeper behind them- there are reasons for these traits that are explored both by canon and the fandom meta. Grif's laziness is a result of his personal struggle with having to care for his sister alone, as well as his general disdain for the army as an institution. Kai's sexuality is her way of seeking fun and connection in her life, likely in part due to feeling abandoned by their mother, and then by her brother. In the case of the Grifs, fandom treats them well by taking these established character traits, and not overinflating, but contextualizing them, and treating them as part of a larger whole. Grif is loyal to his friends, he's clever and observant when he's willing to show it. Kai is independent, business-savvy, and assertive. These other character aspects exist in the fandom portrayal, so their depictions don't feel like a glaring stereotype. In the right hands, with enough care and love, their negative traits can even be used to explore the impact of colonialism- how the stereotypes are based off the conditions and circumstances forced on us by its influence.

Flowers, on the other hand, has a fandom portrayal that feels like an artificial exaggeration of a single aspect of his canon character. There's very little depth behind it, no real contextualization- he hasn't been fleshed out by fandom, he's almost been reduced by it. Naturally, contextualization is going to be harder because he's a minor character and we don't hear much- if anything- about his background. But it is still an active choice by people who make fan content of him to emphasize certain traits, and it's thus far been the traits that fall into some very harmful tropes.

So my suggestion, as an indigenous person, is this. You don't have to change your facecanon, necessarily- but put some thought into it. Whether you're depicting him as an explicitly native person, or just with native-coded features, consider the connotations. Reconsider exaggerating his violent side so much: technically speaking, we've seen him kill 2 people somewhat indirectly, in the same mission that North killed like 5 in a similar manner and Tex literally murdered C.T. with a tomahawk. Do you emphasize their violence in the same way? Why did you choose to do so for Flowers? If you want him to be unsettling, his enthusiastic facilitation of PFL's activities in blood gulch and lack of qualms about using and discarding sim troopers is there to work with- something non-violent but no less sinister, something less aligned with common harmful stereotypes when applied to indigenous people, and much more founded in canon as a distinguishing part of his character.

Just stop to think "is this portrayal a reinforcement of the "native s*vage" trope?", and "is this really that founded in canon?". Think about whether someone with no experience in rvb fanon would look at your content and see more than a native guy in mystery blue guy's armour doing gratuitous violence for no reason.

Consider the less explored but canonical aspects of his character, flesh them out with headcanon. Sure, he killed chain guy and girl, but he also yanked a tomahawk out of his arm after falling from height and kept fighting- explore his resilience, what drives him. His strategic mind, using the environment against his enemies, carefully balancing the illusion surrounding blood gulch and constructing specific social dynamics. Hell, even delve into why he believes in Freelancer enough to do what he's done without issue. Flesh out your portrayal, dial back the singularity of the vibes you give him.

Indigenous people aren't exempt from being awful, or violent, or complicit in corrupt systems- but if you portray a native character that way without any depth or reason behind their choices, you often end up reinforcing a stereotype.

...and if gratuitous violence is what you want, if you like that creepy knife-obsessed murder guy, then yeah. Maybe consider changing your facecanon. Cause I'm a little tired of seeing characters who look like my people always soaked in blood and acting like they have innate uncontrolled urges to kill. Depictions like that about us were part of what formed the justification for our genocide, so please try not to perpetuate that.

[w3llf4ll]

Sometimes i forget trans bodies arent seen as the “default” way a body can just be, and people see them as other enough to try starting art discourse over? Very confusing.

Trans people dont look just one way or another. They can be literally anything- just like cis people’s bodies? Its so weird when people get upset about people drawing trans bodies without surgery when so many trans people choose not to have surgery, or just havent had it yet.

[demonio-fleurs]

unpopular opinion i know but like… of course rooster teeth is going to start removing content from youtube and migrating it to their own site. ad revenue has been declining more and more since the adpocalypse, and RT themselves have said they get more $$$ from watching ads on their website than they do youtube.

im not making excuses for RT bc their business practices have been downright frustrating for the last five or so years, but if you’re gonna be upset be upset with youtube terrible ad policies

[churchyaoi]

CHURCH - 22 - german - autistic - DID system (more below) i like to draw red vs blue and my ocs, i love halo, heavy metal, scifi stuff and motorcycles. i also have a job.

-> my carrd -spacecataclysm on other socials -proship dni -involve me in discourse and i will blow you up -feel free to send asks about anything + rvb art requests

DID system, we don't have a collective name so just refer to the host (church). ENDOS DNI we're mostly brainmade heavy but with a few fictives, if ur weird about them also dni. frequent fronters: 🐟 church/epsilon (he/him) 🩳 lewin (he/him)- @neongreenlight 🎮 greed (he/him)- @secondsuture (18+) ⭐ wash (he/him)- @laceratedsteel 🛸 lina (she/her) 🐺 six (he/it)- @redactedrecord

[mattastr0phic]

🌵- FAQ | 🔆- COMMS | ☕- KOFI |⛅- ABSOLUTION

✅- Feel free to ask questions, off-anon inbox or dm if needed! I am always up for civil conversation.

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[hungry-skeleton]

I love critical rvb fandom not only because of the validation for our individual gripes with the show but the solemn knowledge that the only thing keeping a few of us from tearing eachother apart to bloody pieces due to wildly different interpretations and viewpoints is the veil of respectful discourse for a show we all mutually love-despise

[nightmare-foundation]

Hello!

This is my main blog, and I'm currently attempting to make an introductory post for it loll.

Basic info

My name is Felix! I'm the host of an HC-DID system with over 150+ known members. I'm 19 years old, and I use he/him pronouns. I'm MLM and transgender (ftm)! I also have autism and ADHD!

Boundaries

I don't have many things I take issue with, but please don't bring up shipping discourse with me. Specifically, pro/anti discourse. I couldn't care less about any of it, since it's all so harmful and I don't have good experiences with it. I don't care what people ship as long as its tagged correctly. I don't mind discussing my reasons for staying out of it, but please don't jump to calling me evil for not wanting to be involved. You will be blocked for that. And no, I'm not neutral either; I'm not involved at all, I have my own set of beliefs. However, I don't care if either Antis or Proshippers interact with or follow me, just as long as discourse or drama doesn't follow me. I WILL be strict with this; I will happily block you, turn off asks, etc if need be. I am also explicitly anti-censorship and anti-harassment.

Speaking of discourse, also don't involve me in syscourse. I have my own set of beliefs around that as well.

DNI/Do Not Follow If

I don't really have a DNI since I can't stop people from *interacting*, but don't follow me if you have conservative beliefs (homophobic, support trump, racist, etc), if your blog is dedicated to Christianity (I don't hate Christians, just a personal thing)/ship or system discourse, you call yourself a MAP or support IRL incest, are a radqueer/TERF/similar things along those lines that I can't think of rn. I'll update this as things come to mind.

Misc.

I love to write and discuss things about characters, AUs, etc! So feel free to send asks about my favorite characters. I love deep diving and analyzing characters.

Interests

Interests that come to mind: DC (Batfamily), RWBY, RVB, Halo, PJO, MLP, HLVRAI, BNHA, Marvel (MCU), BATIM, FNAF, Minecraft (my original works), Warriors (Erin Hunter, not nearly as interested anymore), Wings of Fire (just the world building, never read the books), CW The Flash, Mystery Skulls Animated, Psychology, world building, character analysis and design, pre-history, writing, speculative biology, I'll probably update this as I remember what specifically I'm interested in lmao

Favorite characters I'm happy to indulge in/write about: Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Professor Ozpin, Michael Afton, Peter Parker, Agent Washington, Izuku Midoriya, and AU versions of these characters, as well as OCs of any of the above interests

That... should be it? Feel free to send me asks about my interests!

[sharkface]

can i confess something seeing legit discourse ab rvb is so funny to me because its like. thats just a bunch of guys doing improv in a video game. its like the early 2000s youtube version of people who get really into minecraft youtubers roleplaying

Me when I don't know what a machinima is

[anneapocalypse]

rvb fandom for the choose violence ask game! 1, 12, 17, and 24.

🔥 choose violence ask game 🔥

Obligatory disclaimer that I'm a few years out of the loop on RvB fandom at this point, so take anything I say about "the fandom" with that in mind, and a huge grain of salt.

1. the character everyone gets wrong

I freely admit that I've always been brutally picky about depictions of Carolina, and I think I've griped about most facets of that in one meta post or another over the years! There was the Freelancer-era hate for her of course, writing her off as caring about winning above all else and ignoring her demonstrated concern for her team members (something even later seasons seemed to forget happened), the awful bitch who broke precious perfect York's heart, etc etc but there was also a sort of overcompensation that happened later, where people liked Carolina and wanted to portray her sympathetically but seemed to struggle to reconcile that with the fact that she is, in fact, prickly and difficult a lot of the time! So you'd get these sort of smoothed-over versions of Freelancer and present-day season 10 Carolina that were certainly well-intentioned, but still, for me, kind of off-base in terms of who the character actually is.

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

Since I just talked about Carolina, and since I think she is in fact fairly well-liked these days as female RvB characters go, I will say instead that Kimball is a wonderful, complex character who deserves so much love always and forever. I don't think Kimball is unpopular in the sense of being hated, but more in the sense of having fallen out of relevance in recent canon and becoming, along with the entirety of the Chorus arc, tragically overlooked.

My hottest take about Kimball, I guess, is that for a lot of season 13's conflicts, she is objectively right and Doyle is wrong. The arc she has to go on in season 13 isn't realizing that Doyle is right about combat strategy (if you listen to what he's actually suggesting, his ideas are almost universally terrible) but recognizing that he, as an individual person, is not responsible for what happened to Chorus or to her people, that most of the surviving Feds are inheritors of the conflict rather than instigators of it, that the people they were originally rebelling against are all dead, and that working together to fight back against Charon is Chorus's only hope for survival. Flattening that into "both sides are wrong" is kind of insulting to Kimball and I think misrepresents the nature of the conflict. Also, I think her season 12 characterization is so important and everything she does in 13 needs to be read in light of that. Her greatest strength is the faith she has in people.

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

More love for Chorus in general!

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

Mental illness headcanons as a cover for "my fave is the best/woobiest/poorest little meow meow and your fave sucks and is an abuser/war criminal" slapfights. (Please note I am not saying mental illness headcanons are bad in and of themselves, just that I've seen them tangled up in so much terrible discourse over the years.) If there's one thing I can confidently say about RvB, it's that everyone's a war criminal and they all have PTSD and are wet and sad. Let's move on with our lives.

[lostlegendaerie]

for ao3 wrapped! 29, 3, (and the wip questions) 12, 15!

[love how often you and I swap ask meme stuff. solidarity.]

3- What work are you most proud of (regardless of kudos/hits)?

Grow As We Go and Eulogy are up there (and I almost chose the latter) but. Restraint was so much fun. It's smutty and silly and a brand new fandom for me, written for and with the help of a VERY old friend and it's making me new ones too and like. That's all I really want. I just wanna get to make friends and talk to them and share in the joy of living and creating.

I'm getting teary just laying here in bed thinking about it. I love the people I get to meet with my writing so much. This one especially I got some comments about how I made people remember to be kind and love themselves, too, and even if I never make it on the best seller lists or live to be 50; just being kind to one person is worth it.

Thank you @misskhep @samioli @sapphire-wine @declawedwildcat @isa-ah @la-la-la-laurel @torchickentacos and everyone else who commented on ANY of my posts or fics or anything this year. Thank you for making another trip around the sun worth taking.

12- How many WIP’s do you have in your docs for next year?

One novel (the same one since 2019 or so), one Mini Bang, and... a Genshin Impact fic. I'm gonna finish all of them, but I can't really talk about any of them bc two of them are NDAs by design and the GI one will have an undecided amount of a semi-contentious ship. (Yes. It's LuKae.) Granted, it's a bloody whump of a spy thriller so it's not LIKELY the Puriteen book-banning-brigade would enjoy it anyway... but it's still a can of discourse I don't wanna deal with.

15- What WIP are you taking into next year with you?

I'm gonna count these as the PUBLISHED fics, so: I swear to GOD I will finish with your bare hands, with love before RvB s20 drops and also rum on the fire. The former needs the last chapter tweaked a little to smooth the transition into the next scenes, and the former has some plot threads that got a little tangled + needs a more purple-prose style that takes some extra effort to use.

29- Favorite line/passage you wrote this year?

Nnnnnn, that's a tricky one, bc ROTF and Restraint both have some extremely poetic lines... but I gotta give it to Grow as We Go bc it just cracks me up so much and I'm so PROUD of the subtle twist on the common saying.

"... but Solidad hasn’t had a romantic bone in her body since her baby teeth fell out."

[texas-hates-taxes-too]

Yk I have some real treasured mutuals in doctor who fandom but I've been realising lately that overall rvb fandom is more interesting. I dont know why but there's just more stuff. More text posts, more discussions, more memes. There's also way less discourse which is always a plus

You'd think a show with almost 40 seasons, each lasting 5-10 hours, plus thousands of audio episodes and hundreds of books would have more to discuss than Red Vs Blue but apparently not

[inhumanliquid]

And rvb is always just "haha orthogonal" "haha diagonal" do we not care about how they look? Where they start?? Why does this only happen with rvb and discourse and nothing else

Like pawn vs queen has a lot of arguments about promotion and en passant of course but there's also a significant portion that's about how pawns are so short they could easily be missed otb if they're behind other pieces but rvb is always just OoOoO tHeY mOvE dIfFeReNtLy!!1! As if the entire point of chess isn't to have a variety of pieces that move in different ways??

How odd

[onewomancitadel]

I also am emphatically of the attitude that oldfan experience good and newfan experience also even better. They can be different experiences, and this is a good thing, because a fresh perspective can shrug off the weight of fandom expectations/fanon/established attitudes, and equally I am here to set the record straight that actually a lot of the things people said about V3 and onwards were already being said about the show before that. I would even argue that the bizarro RWBY fandom is not a product of what you think it is.

Long before there was fanon and a rewriting of how fandom went, people were already insistent that 1. RWBY was not anime, and subsequently not a real story, and derivative at best, 2. everything RWBY did was wrong because the creators are weird (unhelped by the relationship RT had with its audience) and 3. flashy combat interests a lot of people. It also makes people think the show is not anything else at all and is at best seasoning (and yes. I liked the combat scenes, but I'm not sure there is lasting narrative longevity in those, and that's why I think RWBY was made, and not a different property, or another Haloid or Dead Fantasy).

No, I am not diminishing problems behind the RWBY production (in fact I would contend that we are cognisant of more issues with RWBY than others, and it's industry-wide worse than you think), but rather I am trying to draw a picture that before all the V3 furore of deviating from the vision started - and beyond that, from V4 through V8 a shade of this discourse has persisted - there was already a perfect storm of rhetorical issues surrounding the show, and I would say that these actually still largely persist.

There are things I personally would've done differently to avoid this, with the benefit of hindsight and making a better narrative product overall. But nobody really knew it would happen, and nobody certainly knew RWBY would go beyond RT's animation webshow when their flagship was RVB. And now I would say that an issue RWBY is facing is that there are other, similarly mature 3D animation productions (just look at Arcane) seeing success with commercial budgets. At the time, it was very weird, and contributed to the general disgust directed at the show, but now they both don't have Netflix money and they can't really paddle through the storm as a purely independent/free production bankrolled by RT's money-making projects (this is what I expected way back when Fullscreen acquired RT, actually), so I don't envy the position they're in. I have mused before that I would watch RWBY in whatever form it comes, even if it meant V2-4 level of production, but I don't even know if they can do that anymore. If they did V8-level production I'd kiss the ground. I want Volume 10 for fuck's sake.

[churchyaoi]

church or greed - 23 - he/him - DID system - autistic i draw ocs + rvb fanart + halo stuff mostly i also love heavy metal and industrial rock and motorcycles i have a job

-> my carrd -> spacecataclysm on other socials -> involve me in discourse and ill blow you up -> you can use my fanart with credit. dont use my oc art

endos dni. we have no collective name so refer to the host (church) unless told otherwise or you're talking abt another alter specifically. we sometimes sign off but usually it doesnt rlly matter to us frequent fronters: 🐟church he/him 🎮greed he/him - @secondsuture (18+) ♣️alice she/her

[franklindonuts]

that guy philip must have a fucked-up-shaped head!

frank(lin) + (leo)nard + church + donut + etc.

he/mirrored prns 🏳️‍⚧️ tmasc bisexual fag 🏳️‍🌈

i'm the furthest thing from a casual rvb fan i can't even look at tumblr without feeling overwhelmed and shaking like a dog. also currently into dungeon meshi and roblox

i write occasionally. Sometimes. a lot of my stuff is very Very unfinished or just rotting in my drafts but i'm happy to share wips all the time. i write predominantly for rvb but like half of my drafts are just grimmons. owwch.

i enjoy shipping a lot. like a crazy amount. i'm a big romance guy! that being said i do not partake in shipping discourse because i have a fucking job

i also create a lot of aus. most notably i've been curating a "rnbs as freelancers" au called alpha vs beta. ask me about it. please. pelase.pelam.easep. pleasn.ln

BYF

i love talking to people. i am also terrified of talking to people. so feel free to reach out first!! ialso take drawing requests or fic requests or blahblahblah. whatever. But i often do Not reach out so do not take this as like. i haye you or something. i'm just deeply fucking autistic

i have weird ... squicks and i would like to have stuff tagged but i also don't check here enough or really gaf but it'd be. appreciated.

watever that is all Ok thank u

ao3 + insta + strawpage

[verahatesglue]

new rvb discourse you say south sucks i come and kill you with rocks